Advertisement

Advertisement

Originally published September 28, 2011 at 12:00a.m., updated September 28, 2011 at 12:56a.m.

Beyond the Phog’ excerpt: J.R. Giddens on leaving KU

"Beyond the Phog" book.

"Beyond the Phog" book.

Advertisement

photo

Courtesy photo

"Beyond the Phog" book.

The following is an excerpt from "Beyond the Phog - Untold Stories from Kansas Basketball's Most Dominant Decade." Compiled by Jason King of Yahoo! Sports and Lawrence Journal-World sportswriter Jesse Newell, the 400-page book includes interviews with 40 players and coaches from the most successful era in Jayhawks history. "Beyond the Phog" will be available in stores Friday. For more information on ordering the book or upcoming book signings, check out kubook.net.

In J.R. Giddens' words ...

DREAMS DASHED?

Any thoughts I had about leaving (school early) for the NBA ended when I got stabbed. After that I knew I wasn’t going anywhere. If anything, I was trying to figure out if I was ever going to play basketball again.

I think that’s why they made me leave Kansas. The doctor said I would walk with a limp for the rest of my life. He said I was going to come back 50% and I wasn't going to be able to play basketball anymore.

I’m not saying Kansas threw me out like a battery. But they get McDonald’s All-Americans every day. They weren’t going to let me stay around campus and be Moulaye Niang.

Micah Downs was coming in. Bill Self used to always tell me, “Micah is coming in and he's better than you.” He would just say little stuff like that and I was like, “Dang, man, you’re not even for me, are you?” I wanted to stay at Kansas but I felt like they just pushed me out the door, especially after getting stabbed. I was like, “I'm sitting here worrying if I'm ever play basketball again and you guys are over here talking to me in an inappropriate manner? I'm 19 years old. You guys are supposed to my college coaches. Instead, at the first sign of trouble, you guys are turning your back on me?” I felt like it was everyone from the coaching staff to the people up there in the offices. As a 19-year-old who was immature and didn’t understand life, I took that really hard. I left the office in tears when I knew I was leaving.

I remember that day really well. I walked out of there on crutches, crying. I’d been interrogated for about seven hours for three days straight. Then those guys did that to me? A few weeks before that, I had to move out of my dorm at the Towers. I was staying with Josi Lima, my girlfriend at the time who played volleyball. Bill Self was telling my teammates not to have any contact with me. Darnell Jackson and Jeremy Case were two of my best friends, and they weren’t even allowed to talk to me. Aaron Miles was done playing so he came over. He was the only person who came and saw me. I was like, “Dang, I’m 30 feet from where I used to stay and you guys can’t even come over here and see me?” I’m stabbed and laid up and don’t even know if I’m going to play basketball again. That was very kind of Kansas basketball and Bill Self, to tell people to stay away from me like I was a team cancer.

• A previous version of this excerpt was updated.

Comments

Jhawk59 3 years, 2 months ago

Good riddance. Low-blow to Niang too.

phoggydrive 3 years, 2 months ago

Not really. Niang had back issues which forced him to stop playing. Self allowed him to stay associated with the team (just not as a player). That's what JR was talking about. It had nothing to do with his ability as a player.

bad_dog 3 years, 2 months ago

The difference as I see it was Niang apparently didn't incur his injury from a bar fight with deadly weapons involved. Furthermore, Giddens shouldn't even have been in the Moon bar as he wasn't old enough to be drinking.

Sounds to me like he was immature then and hasn't moved very far on the chronological scale since. Still doesn't accept responsibility for his actions or their repercussions.

Gavin Fritton 3 years, 2 months ago

Just a thought JR, but maybe you could have not gotten in a fight or gotten stabbed? Perhaps taken some responsibility for your actions? Even after your little escapade at Wal-Mart, KU gave you a chance and a home and now you're accusing KU of tossing you like a dead battery? Stay classy.

Steve Quatrocky 3 years, 2 months ago

He wasnt just a dead battery, he was a dead battery that was oozing corrosive acid at the time, and evidently still is! Its one side of the story but looking at it from Coach Self's perspective, Bill gets the A+ for protecting the program and ridding itself of a cancer. Yes, JR's exit was abrupt and insensitive but so were his actions that put everybody between a rock and a hard place. If somebody gets their feelings hurt, it should be the guy who made the mistake.

Don Everett 3 years, 2 months ago

People who blame someone else for their problems are worthless. Take responsibility for your own actions.

Eurekahwk 3 years, 2 months ago

Color us all disappointed. I thought he could have been really good, and I wanted to see him succeed at Kansas. But when you're under aged and getting a free ride through school, the bar shouldn't even be in your vocabulary. He's lucky he got a chance at all. Some coaches would have rescinded his scholly after the Wally World incident.

texashawk10 3 years, 2 months ago

Maybe the reason the staff at KU wasn't willing to stand behind Giddens was because all he did was shoot 3's every time he touched the ball and shot 33% his sophomore year. Maybe if Giddens was more willing to use his athletic abiltiy to drive to the basket and share the ball more, KU would've done more for Giddens after he was stabbed. He was one of the most athletically gifted players I ever saw step foot on Naismith Court, and I remember the announcers throughout the year (didn't matter which crew) wondering why in the world Giddens didn't have more FT attempts, but he completely squandered his athleticism his sophomore season and only attempted 25 FT's the entire season. If Giddens had been more aggressive his entire sophomore season, KU probably wins 3 or 4 of the games they lost that year including Bucknell and who knows what would've happened that year. JR Giddens may have been one the most athletically gifted players I've ever seen in a KU uniform, but he is also the biggest waste of talent I've ever seen as well.

mi_familia 3 years, 2 months ago

Too bad you guys didn't see more of a healthy Selby.

Dan Pawlowski 3 years, 2 months ago

Or not. "Could be" ? Yea its possible but without any examples why bother posting that. Way to back up your weak assertions.

Steve Reigle 3 years, 2 months ago

Disagree. Selby's talent wasn't used because of injuries and the ncaa thing. Giddens' waste of talent was his own fault.

jksport 3 years, 2 months ago

Exit JR and Welcome Brandon Rush. Rest is history!

rocksolid 3 years, 2 months ago

Anybody ever witness JR's tirades and talk down to people, he made Mangino look like a saint. MOO stuck around and finished school with a degree. Was good to see him at The Legends of the Phog game.

hawkfan4life 3 years, 2 months ago

I went to school with Giddens, and stayed a few rooms away from him in the towers. I always thought he got a bad rap here. He is a very self-confident guy, no doubt. That rubbed some folks the wrong way. He was always really chill and cool with me. Definitely not the villian that he was made out to be.

His story is one that makes me know for certain that all things happen for a reason. His tragedy in Lawrence turned into ultimate triumph for him. Lots of success followed for him at New Mexico, and Doc Rivers saw potential in him when we thought he had been counted out. Went on to play professionally in the league and overseas. A bad situation made good. He fulfilled his dream of playing for pay and made the millions that we all dream of.

We seemed to be okay after he left too!! So, all in all, it actually worked out well for everybody in the end. And, it's all water under the bridge now. Quiet as it's kept, JR still has friends in, and ties to Lawrence. He pops into town every so often. He doesn't hate us like this excerpt makes it seem...this reads like a story that the book really could have done without.

Aligned 3 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Ron Prichard 3 years, 2 months ago

Actually, we all do. That's why we read this stuff.

John Boyle 3 years, 2 months ago

I like Doc Rivers but he was dead wrong on that draft pick. If you recall the Celtics took Giddens with the last pick in the first round and the Heat took Mario Chalmers with the first pick in the second round. Mario is and was a better player and he is still in the league.

History on Giddens: Giddens accepted a scholarship offer from University of Kansas from then head coach Roy Williams. After Williams left, Giddens was persuaded to stay by Williams' replacement Bill Self. In his first year at Kansas, Giddens earned All-Big 12 Conference Freshman honors while averaging 11 points per game. However, he left Kansas after the stabbing incident in May 2005 on a mutual agreement with Self, and transferred to New Mexico for a fresh start. After sitting out a year due to NCAA regulations, he was suspended indefinitely from the team in late February for not being a good teammate. In his senior season, he was named Mountain West Conference Co-Player of the Year and Honorable Mention All-American following career highs in points (16.3 per game) and rebounds (8.8 per game).

On June 26, 2008, Giddens was selected by the Boston Celtics with the 30th overall pick in the 2008 NBA Draft. He had worked out with the Celtics for three days, and received praises from head coach Doc Rivers, who thought he could fight for minutes on the team right away. He was even mentioned as a possible replacement for restricted free agent Tony Allen. Giddens was already familiar with Leon Powe and Kendrick Perkins, who were his teammates at the 2003 McDonald's All-American Game. But on behalf of his agent Aaron Mintz, Giddens declined to work out at the Celtics' minicamp in early July, because he had not signed a contract yet. On November 15, 2008, Giddens was assigned to the Boston Celtics' NBA Development League affiliate team, the Utah Flash.He had played with the Celtics in the 2008–09 pre-season but had been on the inactive list for the first 10 games of the regular season. He was recalled by the Celtics from Utah Flash development team on February 8, 2009. Giddens started his first game for the Boston Celtics on January 2, 2010. On February 18, 2010, Giddens, Bill Walker and Eddie House were traded to the New York Knicks for Nate Robinson and Marcus Landry. On October 13, 2010, Giddens's agent said that Giddens would spend the 2010-11 season with Asseco Prokom Gdynia in Poland, but Giddens left the team in December 2010 by mutual consent. In September 2011, Giddens signed with PAOK Thessaloniki of Greece

andersonalex 3 years, 2 months ago

That's just the thing. It's not exactly "water under the bridge" if he's putting out a public slam on KU about the whole incident right now.

jhawkrulz 3 years, 2 months ago

My understanding is these interviews took place at the time of the incident, so probably a week-two weeks after the incident this probably is how he felt.

Today he probably has different thoughts, but to me this is good insight.

The water under the bridge is probably 5 years old now.

andersonalex 3 years, 2 months ago

There is language in his quotes that precludes the possibility that this was soon after the incident. He's talking about "remembering it well" and how he was just an immature 19 year old kid at the time who didn't understand life. This was clearly taken years after the incident.

Dirk Medema 3 years, 2 months ago

Definitely could have done without. I sure hope Giles or Downs isn't next.

SaltLakeHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

It's interesting to me that KU is letting this stuff get published. There's no conceivable way that a story like this could reflect well on KU.

And Giddens sounds like he's still his same old d-bag self.

texashawk10 3 years, 2 months ago

How does it paint KU in a bad way. Giddens put himself in a bad position with his on-court play and in a situation that led to him being stabbed and KU cut ties with someone who at the could've dragged the program down with him. KU did what they needed to do and this except paints Giddens as a bitter person who didn't take responsibility for himself for getting into a bad situation. The Micah Downs quote I'm guessing was supposed to be motivation for Giddens to work his butt off to prove Self wrong, but Giddens took it literally that Downs was going to come in and be handed Giddens spot instead of a challenge to make himself better that a statement like that is intended to do.

mattiesdad 3 years, 2 months ago

Not to mention that HCBS may have been saying it in a joking manner. We don't know the tone Self used, even though it's portrayed here to have been a cut. We all saw the love at the Legend's game. I don't think we need to worry that Bill is treating the boys badly. This may help sell books, but JR, we all know the score.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

I can almost guarantee Self was saying "someone is coming in that's better than you" to motivate the guy. It really isn't off the wall or unique. Coaches do that kind of thing all the time. Guys that are soft fold in on themselves when they hear that. The tough competitors push themselves that much harder. It seems pretty clear the category JR was in.....

Ryan Wood 3 years, 2 months ago

What makes you think KU has final approval? That's not how it works, buddy.

Michael Pannacciulli 3 years, 2 months ago

Amen. Scary that he thinks KU has such powers of censorship!

jhawkrulz 3 years, 2 months ago

You almost make it sound like this interview was made in the past week, this interview was made years ago, it is just getting published.

Steve Gantz 3 years, 2 months ago

Is KU publishing the book? Otherwise, there's no way they could prevent this stuff from getting published.

Alohahawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Normally, I try to give a person the benefit of the doubt. J.R.Gibbens, er... I mean J.R.Giddens, lost my support before he even stepped foot on the court during a game (see Walmart escapade). Then, his court performances never equaled the hoopla surrounding his recruitment.

Perhaps it was because Coach Williams recruited him, but Giddens never seemed to fit Self's system. I always wondered what KU would have accomplished if he hadn't played. (Case in point his performance in his final game for KU. Our inside game was our strength but he kept hogging shots with his 3's, till we lost the game.) As pointed out above, his love of the three and failure to drive to the bucket, especially with his leaping ability, left a lot to be desired. IMHO, and not because I advocate violence, the stabbing was a blessing in disguise.

And as I mentioned in a post about a week or two ago, when you point a finger, three fingers point back to the one doing the pointing.

Michael Auchard 3 years, 2 months ago

Abre los ojos.

Anyone who doesn't think KU players live crazy, dirty lifestyles on the side is insane.

Michael Pannacciulli 3 years, 2 months ago

Was thinking the same thing. Sloppy. Nevertheless this book will be very compelling.

matlockhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Waaa, waaa, waaa. Does he think that anyone familiar with the program is going to buy into any of that? He couldn't dribble, pass, play d, or (for that matter) shoot threes consistently. Not a coachable commodity.

Michael Auchard 3 years, 2 months ago

Regardless of what you think of him, he's in the NBA. For someone who can't "dribble, pass, play d or shoot threes":

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3429/jr-giddens

Good enough to play in the League, at least.

I'm a homer as much as anybody, but don't randomly hate on a talented player just because he didn't work out here in Lawrence. Call his character into question if you want, but he's obviously proved he's an athlete, and a fairly skilled one at that.

Jeremy Bolinger 3 years, 2 months ago

Giddens blew when he was here. No other way to put it. I don't care if he was athletic. He sucked at shooting, and was even worse at life. This should make everyone more proud of guys like Tyrel who represent KU with class.

John Boyle 3 years, 2 months ago

He made it to "the league" based on potential. Never lived up to it there either.

John Randall 3 years, 2 months ago

You'd be damned poor in any personnel department (sports or other) if you disregard attitude in the presence of talent.

JR Giddens is NOT in the NBA. In two years, he appeared briefly in fewer than 40 (of 164+) games, never made a 3-pt basket, hit barely 50% from foul line. Boston acknowledged their error in drafting him by throwing him at Knicks in a 5-player deal, and NO team was interested in him after his rookie contract expired. Last winter he signed with a Polish team, bailed on them after a couple months, now going to a team in Greece for who-knows-how-long.

KULA 3 years, 2 months ago

Nice to hear some dissenting opinions from the general consensus of the "can do no wrong" assessment of the program and coaches. Kinda like life, huh? It's not always black and white.

John Randall 3 years, 2 months ago

There is a hint about "can do no wrong" in the scarcity of negative feedback from people in or close to the program. In this case, going an extra mile with (and for) a player proved to be at least half a mile too far.

bradynsdad 3 years, 2 months ago

Did I miss the part of the story where he explains that he got stabbed because he was helping an old couple getting robbed? I mean he was always such an outstanding role model I don't know why he wouldn't tell people when he got STABBED that he was performing a heroic deed.

Dirk Medema 3 years, 2 months ago

I don't think it was intended as history as much as sarcasm.

nuleafjhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Giddens was, in my opinion, in second place as the biggest disappointment and biggest waste of God given talent that KU has ever seen.

He shouldn't feel badly about being second in those two categories, because he was definitely first in the bad attitude, crybaby department.

I suppose anything is possible, but I don't see Coach Self saying what Giddens reported that he said. He could have been "on" him, or being sarcastic or whatever, but Self doesn't strike me as being the kind of man that just kicks you when you're down for no reason.

J.R. Giddens means nothing to me - I haven't lost a second of sleep since he left and I won't, but I hope he gets his act together and grows up.

nuleafjhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Well - it's probably very close to the same for all of us ZIG. Maybe we'll get some responses from "the gallery". That might be interesting!!

HighScore 3 years, 2 months ago

I would put Lester Earl and Luke Axtell as much larger disappointments than Selby, Henry or JR.....it's not even close.

ohmixmaster 3 years, 1 month ago

Ummmm, I have a hard time with that one. Lester and Luke both had serious injuries, but they gutted it out and finished their last season's with KU. X was a great kid, and busted his rear in a KU uniform, and I believe wanted to stay at KU. It is also my belief that his Father is the one that ultimately pressured him into jumping to the NBA before he was ready. Selby is a good kid as well, and forces out of his control (suspension, injuries, ect..) led to less than describable results. He was another one who was not even close to being ready for the NBA, and it is my belief that the "image" of being a 1 and done'r was given more personal value than being ready for the NBA. Josh, more than X, based on draft position, will more than likely learn a hard lesson in the very near future. X is guaranteed enough money to set him up for life regardless if he reaches potential or not, whereas Josh was a mid 2nd round pick with no financial guarantees. Combine Josh's situation with not being near NBA ready, and I think he is going to get a rude real world awakening. I hope I'm wrong, but maybe others can learn that valuing image over substance rarely works to one's advantage.

Tony Bandle 3 years, 2 months ago

I nominate Micah Downs with Mr. Giles a close second.

John Brown 3 years, 2 months ago

Funny thing is that JR was suspended in his first playing season with New Mexico for not being a good teammate. Maybe that had something to do with his situation at KU as well.

gongs4ku 3 years, 2 months ago

His getting into trouble as a 19 year old, or his "wasting his talent," don't negatively affect my view of J.R. I remember what it was like to be that young. However, his inability, years after the fact, to take responsibility for mistakes he made reflects pretty poorly on his character.

Joe Joseph 3 years, 2 months ago

I think most people would agree that people deserve a second chance. JR Giddens got his. As well as a third and fourth.

Strike one - Attempting to steal $4000 worth of electronics from Wal Mart. Strike two - Getting in a knife fight outside the Moon Bar. Strike three - Getting suspended from New Mexico for being a D of a teammate.

Giddens clearly borrows trouble and I can't say I feel any bit sorry for him.

Mike Kendall 3 years, 2 months ago

stupidmichael---I kid you all the time. Kind of like HCBS riding Giddens---ouch!

But seriously, that is exactly my thoughts. You hit the nail on the head. Stealing $4000 worth of electronics from Wal-Mart is a huge strike one. Thanks for the post.

Jayhawkfanalum 3 years, 2 months ago

Congratulations, Jesse. Your WikiLeaks-like assortment of former Jayhawks talking trash paints a dark streak across our program (can you say “recruiting albatross” Jesse?), but wins you 15 minutes of fame, ala Julian Assange. This latest offering—the one sided blathering of a bitter ex-player a few knife thrusts short of Antisocial Personality Disorder—is both egregious rumor mongering and blatant self promotion. All hail the newly self-appointed TMZ/National Enquirer of Lawrence! I’m wondering though, do guys like you or Julian Assange ever interrupt your random vomiting of scintillating disclosures with the dull question: “Why?” This series is shaping up as reality TV at its worst. They put that schlock on TV because it’s cheap to produce. You’ll get readers/site clicks with this kind mean-spirited eye candy, but don’t mistake it for journalism or writing.

Ron Prichard 3 years, 2 months ago

Seriously? Give it a rest. Just because someone says something bad about KU doesn't make it "schlock" or "mean-spirited eye candy." Plus, there is no way this "egregious rumor mongering" will result in a "recruiting albatross." I actually had to laugh while reading this. Jesse helped write a book that has stories as told by the players. I'm guessing you loved the Wayne Simien story or the Keith Langford story, but are now bashing Jesse for this one. We have to take the good with the bad, the criticism with the praise. Which is why, Jesse will have to put up with comments like yours mixed in with all the others. Frankly, I like the insight into the program, good and bad.

I bleed KU through and through. I will be in the stands on Saturday for the entire game, just like I am for all the games. I will make it to as many basketball games as I can afford and watch every single one of the others on TV. I absolutely hate it when KU is painted in a negative light and would take Self or any of our other basketball coaches over any others in the country. But I'm not so blind as to think that there aren't differences of opinion and maybe even mistakes made by Self and his assistants. Maybe he said something he regrets, maybe he didn't even say it. But don't bash Jesse for putting the account of a disgruntled former player in his book.

Jayhawkfanalum 3 years, 2 months ago

raprichard- I was overly harsh with my tone here (I think Jesse Newel is the best sports journalist on the staff at LJW), but I was sorely disappointed by the publication of this.
First, no one should put this one on JR Giddens. (My apologies to JR for characterizing him as anti-social: an unfair, unkind take on a kid who got in trouble and for all I know has grown into a better man). JR isn't the one dredging up bad press/bad feelings; its Jason King and Jesse Newell and the LJW. I understand Jason King's role in this. He's a Yahoo "journalist." Its his business to dig up diverting dirt. The long yahoo piece on Miami was not only a hot media item, but good journalism. But Newell and the LJW? This was a horridly one-sided telling, implying that HCBS released JR Giddens because he might have lost a few inches of vertical leap. Self has kept plenty of players who didn't live up to their potential and launched ill-advised 3s. But cruel HCBS apparently draws the line at theft, assault with a deadly weapon, or beating women up and tossing them into hallways. I stand by my likening this series with reality TV & WikiLeaks. I was an early fan of WikiLeaks, but am no fan of their latest the indiscriminate releases. Here's the workflow on this series: 1. Use imprimatur as a "journalist" to gain access to former players. 2. Turn on the microphone. 3. Wait for nasty tidbits to come out. 4. Transcribe 5. Publish posts of selected nasty tidbits to drive book sales and increase page hits. Burying them in the larger context of a book with balancing interviews is less odious. But extracting such misleading and biased entries and publishing them on their own is a cheap shot for readers/page hits. If you don't think this will serve as a recruiting albatross, I think you're wrong. And the LJW has excerpted the most shocking ones and gift wrapped them for opposing programs to use. It disappointed me.

tjg1 3 years, 2 months ago

yah i'm going to have to agree on this one. That was my first thought that crossed my mind when I read this article. Every Jayhawk fan is already going to purchase this book after the previous articles they released. I found this article that gets posted to a site that recruits actually do look at to be highly unneccessary even though it was interesting.

Ryan Wood 3 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Steve Gantz 3 years, 2 months ago

So you just want a book that highlights the positive? That's just propaganda for KU that comes across worse than having some negativity. Plus, this is just an excerpt. Do the next pages in the book highlight the other side of the JR Giddens story? I'm guessing it does.

John Randall 3 years, 2 months ago

Jayhawkfanalum, Your tirade sounds about as mature as some nineteen-yr-old who feels mistreated when called upon to act responsibly.

You know full well Jesse gave no credence to anything that came out of JR's mouth, but just quoted it – to be evaluated by readers. The whole episode demonstrates that the program under Coach Self is probably better morally than competitively (even at 85% wins).

Your own name-calling illustrates what you falsely accuse Jesse of doing.

d_park 3 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

milwaukeeJAYHAWK 3 years, 2 months ago

Why even interview Giddens? Who cares? The guy was a jerk.

John Randall 3 years, 2 months ago

At the time, while JR was still in Lawrence, the interview was quite pertinent. Since the book covers an extended period of time, this is as appropriate as all the rest.

Beate Williams 3 years, 2 months ago

Haters will hate. I definitely think if Self said those things he: 1) was being sarcastic, or 2) he was trying to get the kid to accept a challenge. I find it amazing that people can be so critical of JR for doing the things he was doing at 19, yet when Simien indicated all the things he was doing at 18, 19 and 20 no one talked about what a low life he was. Simien's life went a different direction than JR's but I think Simien's home situation was much different than JR's and they are two different individuals. I think everyone, JR and KU were much better as a result of his leaving and I think his experience in New Mexico is probably what eventually got him to the league. His comments regarding being shunned could have been the easiest way to make the break, not one of hatred or total disregard for him as a person. I think, even though Miles was no longer playing, if Self wanted the kid to be totally isolated he would have passed that along to all individuals associated with the program and he did not.
I agree with an earlier post, it appears this is designed to get the reader interested in buying the book; we absolutely do not know how it has been edited.

Chris Shaw 3 years, 2 months ago

I can understand your # 2), but it's so hard to understand that reverse motiviation when it seems so negative at the time, especially at the age.

I understand it now as an adult, but when I was that age I didn't understand it all. I think that 17-20 age can be a very delicate time period for a college athlete when negative things happen or perceived negative things can happen. For the record, I do not believe at all that Self's comments were sarcastic in that particular situation.

John Randall 3 years, 2 months ago

"""I think that 17-20 age can be a very delicate time period """

Agreed – that's the biggest reason for bringing some reality into their life by reminding them behavior has consequences.

John Boyle 3 years, 2 months ago

You pointed out the very reason why people love Simien and dislike Giddens. Simien learned from his mistakes and grew to be a man of high moral character while Giddens has not. How were their home situations different? Both had parents that were still together and they both came from the Midwest; Simien from Kansas and Giddens from Oklahoma. The only thing different was what they did with the gifts they were given. One took the high road and one went to New Mexico.

Dirk Medema 3 years, 2 months ago

Wayne was not proud of the life he led BC, but there are no indications that it included robbery or bar fights. Seems a bit different to me.

Clarence Haynes 3 years, 2 months ago

" was staying with Josi Lima, my girlfriend at the time who played volleyball"

Hope that he learned some Portuguese or got a trip to Brazil!

REHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Giddens had two years in Lawrence to prove his worth to the league dynasty that Bill Self and the athletic dept. were building. His offcourt actions far more than offset the weak contributions he offered on the court. No doubt, a highly talented and gifted free spirit whose character issues eventually led to his dismissal. From the university chancellor to the athletic director and right on down the line, the athletic dept. was under the wire to clean up and sweep away such distractions. No surprise that J R underwent benching for a spell at New Mexico.
He and Giles and Downes were gifted ball players who were offered the opportunity to play for one of the most prestigious programs and coaching staffs in the land. They blew it. Immaturity? BAH! Steadiness of character and determined focus came up short.

MartyrMangino 3 years, 2 months ago

I hate that people try to make a buck by going through our dirty laundry. Anybody who was at the Legends of the Phog game understands that the reason we are who we are is because we are a team and a family. That's not what family do. Glorified paparazzi. Shame.

John Randall 3 years, 2 months ago

Hogwash! How we handle our dirty laundry says a lot about the character of our leadership. Anyone can put on a noble face when there are no problems to deal with – a glimpse at scrubbing diapers tells you something more.

REHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Here is another thought regarding J R's reference to the support of Aaron Miles. Aaron was obviously one of those steady focused players who was a coach's delight; never a media nightmare. However, Miles and Giddens were Roy's recruits, guys whose talents did not perhaps mesh completely with the design BIll Self envisioned for his future dynasty. I seem to recall that Self and staff were disposed to cutting Giddens' playing time, but were encouraged by Aaron and Keith and other starters to keep J R on the floor. By the time the knifing incident came down, Bill Self had done enough tooth gnashing over the plight of Giddens. The prospect of another two years with his dragging down the program was probably costing the coaching staff loss of sleep. In essence, J R's departure offered the kid a fresh start out west; and eventually led to his NBA contract. Kansas hoops could breathe a sigh of relief and get on track to maintain a winning league record.

Chris Shaw 3 years, 2 months ago

I agree! In other words, Self couldn't wait to get his own recruits and players into "His" program.

John Randall 3 years, 2 months ago

Over simplified, but not out of bounds.

Krohnutz 3 years, 2 months ago

In here are all the answers:

"Dang, man, you’re not even for me, are you?”

No, he was for the team.

Steve Reigle 3 years, 2 months ago

I think he was forced to leave because of repeated offenses and his attitude, not because of this one incident. You break the rules, you pay the price.

Chris Shaw 3 years, 2 months ago

I was never much of a Giddens fan, but I also think he's getting a bad rap. Sure, some of his past mistakes like the Walmart incident and stabbing certainly fall on him, but I also think kids make mistakes and are sometimes in the wrong place at the wrong time (Thomas Robinson example).

With that said, I think Giddens was in a bad situation to start. It's never easy having to deal with a coaching change and Giddens had to do with it two high profile coaches in Williams and Self. Yes, I know Langford, Miles, and Simien had to deal with it as well, but it's never easy when you're that age and you're getting pushed out the door by the head coach and staff as described above.

Look, I love Coach Self, KU, and the staff, but the unfortunate part of amateur college athltetics is things like Giddens described in reference to Coach Self and the staff do happen. I hate it and will never understand it ( I do understand it because it's a cut and dry business-Winning is the only thing in order to keep your job), but sometimes when negative things happen at that age.....they keep spiraling and you think there is nobody on your side. I have sympathy in that regards to Giddens because on a small scale I can relate.

I will say this, after Giddens benching and attitude adjustment at New Mexico by Alford........Giddens did turn into a better player, teammate, and person. Some would say that was his turning point in his career and life. Not a Giddens fans, but I understand his struggles and I respect him for it.

Chris Shaw 3 years, 2 months ago

One other thing, yes, the incidents and attitude might have had something do with Giddens leaving, but Coaches want their own hand picked players. I totally believe the comments about Michah Downs being constantly thown at Giddens.

Kids are forced out of programs all the time, but it's never talked about much. It's the golden rule so to say as it's swept under the rug.

John Boyle 3 years, 2 months ago

I believe he was benched by McKay before Alford got to New Mexico for Giddens senior season. Alford was named head coach on March 23rd of Giddens junior year after they lost in the first round of the MWC tournament and finished with a losing record.

Chris Shaw 3 years, 2 months ago

Jayhawkjohn, you are indeed right about McKay benching Giddens. That was on Feb 20th and i believe Alford was the new coach a month later.

Regardless, the benching happened by McKay........Alford also had to address it and to me it seemed Giddens was at least somewhat more mature after that.

http://cjonline.com/stories/022007/haw_149774801.shtml

REHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Unbelievable that the NBA would have selected Giddens in the first round over second round selection Mario Chalmers who had retained focus and steady development for his 3 years in Lawrence, and had just starred in a national championship contest. So much for NBA evaluation of collegiate focus and character! Bill Self had brought in Brandon Rush to replace Giddens at the 3 position. Not a bad switch....

Dirk Medema 3 years, 2 months ago

So, so true.

BRush was a late pick up, so not exactly a switch, but definitely an upgrade as a replacement.

Redlandsjhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

"At the first sign of trouble you guys turned your backs on me." First Sign??? Excuse me, isn't your memory being a little selective JR? First sign...priceless

dnvrhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

"Pity Party of One"...Giddens' downfall was nobodys' fault, but his own.

southwindjay 3 years, 2 months ago

This tells us a lot more about JR than anything else. A complete class-less cry baby. And luckily we have a great coach that won't acknowledge or respond to his blubbering.

gchawk 3 years, 2 months ago

J.R..... Once I was in a parade and everyone was out of step except me, so I know exactly how you feel !!

wayne1953 3 years, 2 months ago

JR Giddens was a loser when he arrived here, was during his time here, and apparently always will be. so full of himself, he refused to listen to wise counsel and squandered an opportunity to play for one of the premier programs and coaches in the NCAA Div 1. why he was even included in the book is anybodys guess, but he got an opportunity to slam KU and Self so he did. Hope he remains in whatever remote country he is playing in if he is even still playing.

AlecRaenos 3 years, 2 months ago

Actually he is playing in Greece. His teammate issues followed him to Poland where he "mutually" agreed to part ways with the team after being tossed out of the NBA.

Jhawk59 3 years, 2 months ago

No, he's not, he's playing in Greece.

AverageCitizen 3 years, 2 months ago

Guess you don't read previous posts. He's not in the NBA anymore.

Eride 3 years, 2 months ago

You were treated as a team cancer because you were a team cancer.

Tony Bandle 3 years, 2 months ago

I was at the Georgia Tech/ Elite Eight game in St.Louis in JR's first year.

I'll always wonder what would have happened to Gidden's career at Kansas if he had made that last second shot at the end of regulation that would have put us in the Final Four.

Sometimes sports is just a matter of inches [Jo Jo White's sneaker, Fisk's Home Run, Norwood's field goal attempt, Bartman, Starr's quarterback sneak, Denkinger's call, Mike Eruzione's slap shot, Chaistan's kick, etc. etc.]

yates33333 3 years, 2 months ago

You got it wrong about Jo Jo White's sneaker.

Paul Mitten 3 years, 2 months ago

I thought this was a good read. It confirms pretty much what I know about Coach Self. He'll have your back as long as you're with the team, but dude is ruthless when you're not going with the program because your feelings are secondary to the success of the team. That's what a great coach who handles big-time talent should be.

I don't know where people are reading that Giddens is still bitter and blaming KU. It's just a retrospective look into how he felt when he was 19. He said, "As a 19-year-old who was immature and didn’t understand life, I took that really hard. I left the office in tears when I knew I was leaving." Read between the lines. The guy understands the big picture now, that Kansas cut him off because they had to, and that's how life works, only that as a 19 year old, he couldn't understand that because, in his own very words, he was "immature" and only thinking about himself.

He was a hotshot at 18, wasn't going anywhere with his life, made a terrible mistake at 19, and then after that, continued to make his share of mistakes, like a lot of young people do. In his senior year, though, he turned his life and basketball career around, had great success on the court, and got selected in the first round of the NBA Draft. Now I see that he's no longer in the League, but he was a first rounder, meaning he got his 7-figure contract, and he started a game in the NBA for the Celtics. That doesn't sound like a bad life to me.

Everyone judging him on his life, what have you done in your life that makes you so high and mighty? The things people are saying on here...

jhawkrulz 3 years, 2 months ago

Best post on this.

I didn't take it as a bad on anybody.

This was a tough situation for the individual players, the team, and the coaches. I think this is what a lot of us want to know, what was going on.

I kind of think of this as what is going on with realignment...how many of us would love to be a fly in the room in some of those meetings. This is a glimpse of being a fly in the room during the JR incident.

theend 3 years, 2 months ago

Good post.....but I guess I disagree in that he still doesn't seem to understand that he caused the stabbing or take responsibility for his actions. Seems to think he is a victim. Still....you say some good things.

squawkhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Wow! can't get over all the negative comments for one of our own. For better or worse he was KU BB. Doesn't paint a good pic of HCBS or the staff.

Steve Gantz 3 years, 2 months ago

Why don't you wait to see if the book tells Selfs' side of the story?

Jayhawkfanalum 3 years, 2 months ago

Why wait for the book, when you can read the following article, just posted at cbssports.com, entitled:

Bill Self allegedly blacklisted J.R. Giddens

"Jason King has probably written a heck of a book. ..."Beyond the Phog" ...Today, another snippet from the book was released, and it details J.R. Giddens' relationship with Bill Self. ....from his perspective, he wasn't treated well by Self, or really anyone affiliated with Kansas basketball, outside of the players.

-Giddens excerpt-

CBSSPORTS: ..Let's be clear: This is Giddens' recalling of the events from six years ago. There could be some truth, and some half-truths as well. Regardless, that's a bad light to put Kansas hoops in. And it's an interesting one as well, because the program's been so dominant in the past decade, seeing the less-attractive aspects of the Big 12 dynasty is an intriguing dichotomy. Few programs ever truly get along well all the time. There's discourse everywhere. Kansas is about to have its troubled aired publicly, though.

Lindsey Buscher 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm vomiting dizzy after reading all the spin from the KU faithful.

Bottom line is this: that is just one side of the story and our perspective is our own reality. That story is simply JR's reality. No point with the person attacks or trying to rationalize it.

I think the unfortunate part is that now HCBS will probably have to make some sort of statement. Maybe, maybe not, but it is unfortunate because I think he really tries to keep a lid on what goes on inside the locker room and in his office, he has always seemed VERY conscientious about PR control.

Lindsey Buscher 3 years, 2 months ago

For an example of HCBS concern over PR control:

Remember back to last season when TT and EJ answered a press conference question by talking about how coach challenged the team at halftime to beat the UMKC by 20 points in the 2nd half to help teach them that killer instinct. HCBS was none too pleased when he found out what TT said.

lstarter 3 years, 2 months ago

Ok, so yes JR Giddens has got a bad rep from KU fans. I myself have always felt he was a complete waste of time and an idiot but I now recognize that these are 17 to 21 year old kids! Being at that age I thought I had some sort of mature qualities but I look back now and know that wasn't the case. I couldnt imagine what kind of person I could have been living in Lawrence with all the fame because lets be honest basketball players of Lawrence are treated like royalty. Young kids make mistakes and then move on and to some people's complete and UDDER disbelief they make more mistakes. Move on. Just sad that he perceived his exit the way he did. Rock Chalk.

jaybate 3 years, 2 months ago

No one is without ugly sides and episodes.

Self comes off pretty badly here.

Self has always appeared to me a me-first survivor type. From his early ducking of the press after losses, to his cooly calculated distancing and positioning of himself in every controversy, it is clear that he has a keen sense of self-preservation.

Once he is safe, he will save as many as he can and honor trusts and debts.

But for players that do not honor the trust, or do not doing what is asked, all bets are off.

But if you threaten him and his ship, at a time he is vulnerable, he seems the type that will cut you loose in the middle of an ocean and think next.

Excellence of the kind Self has attained does not come from being an angel.

Or a devil.

Just a very, very, very tough customer.

Funhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

So it is, with about everyone who makes a lot of money. The person will do whatever it takes for self-preservation. College basketball coaches' future earnings depend on twenty year-olds. Thank goodness ours don't. Interesting comments above.

Also, nothing mentioned on this article about the young criminal who stabbed J.R. I saw the KU player as a victim. J.R. was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that kid who was attempting murder is hopefully locked up for good. Late hours, liquor, and twenty year-olds produce dynamite. Always has and always will be.

jgkojak 3 years, 2 months ago

Remember, this is immediately after the Bucknell defeat.

jgkojak 3 years, 2 months ago

Ouch.

It'd be good to have a rebuttal from someone in the know.

Ed Brown 3 years, 2 months ago

Wah...wah...wah. It sure reminds me of Kerwin Bell who had a great football future until he either shoplifted something or beat up on his girlfriend and was booted off of the team. I remember him walking around the campus wearing vests without shirts underneath talking smack to anyone. JR was given ample rope to hang himself and he managed to still have significant rope left when it happened...over...and...over...and...over...

He just doesn't really understand why he got booted off of so many teams because of his behavior and attitude.

Scott Oswalt 3 years, 2 months ago

I actually took a class with J.R. He was cocky and condescending. One day, he expected me to give him answers to the test we were taking. I just laughed and shook my head. I should've said, "Make more 3's and throw down a couple vicious dunks and we'll talk."

John Randall 3 years, 2 months ago

Allowed or not, why would you want to ???

With only a modest vocabulary, you can get your point across in better ways.

jhawkrulz 3 years, 2 months ago

Profanity is an attempt of a feeble mind to express itself forcifully.

Forgot who the quote is from, but clearly it defines it well.

Dirk Andrews 3 years, 2 months ago

What good coach wouldn't tell his players to stay away from a problem like J.R.? Self was trying to motivate the guy, and he took it like a diva.

mdwinkler19 3 years, 2 months ago

very simple...when you have a kid that is hanging around with the wrong people getting stabbed...that is not someone you want your high quality team to hang out with. If you want to be a loser you hang out with them. Giddeons was not a personal of moral character...I am saddened with some recent players making bad choices as well.

John Randall 3 years, 2 months ago

Giddens may not have been, but most Gideons are.

kanubal2 3 years, 2 months ago

Out of all the players I was able to come in contact with while going to KU...Giddens by far had the biggest head...I honestly don't know when he went to class because he was always chasing tail outside Wescoe Hall...Every weekend you could find him drunk at Abe and Jakes making a fool out of himself with other members of the football...disregarding the stabbing...I have no sympathy for the guy

theend 3 years, 2 months ago

Well JR.....there are reasons for any and all things that happen in our lives. Thus....there is a reason you were stabbed. From what I heard.....you were being a tough guy thug wannabe....and what's more.......the man who stabbed you was in obvious fear for his life. He reacted with a knife to protect himself.

I wasn't there.....so I can't say for sure. But I would say you are pretty darn lucky to just get stabbed in the leg. An incident like that could have easily ended much worse.

How sad you don't take the responsibility and realize you caused most of this. It wasn't just dumb luck or coincidence you were stabbed, buddy. I don't blame Self at all if that is the way he treated you....though I doubt all of it is true.

kranny 3 years, 2 months ago

Being an educator for 20+ years I can say without a doubt that there is his story, their story, and the real story. There's always 2 sides. Giddens arrived on campus already having been in trouble for a Walmart shoplifting scandal. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4179/is_20030108/ai_n11792199/. In addition to this and the stabbing incident where witnesses say he was one of the instigators, he was also suspended from the New Mexico bball team for a few games. If coach Self was to lower himself to actually give his own account of the "Gidden" years, I'm sure there would be many skeletons. For Giddens to pass himself off as a 'Victim" is being less than honorable. He made his bed and he had to sleep in it.

CaramelMacchMan 3 years, 2 months ago

You(JR) are telling me McDonald's all American makes one mistake and Bill Self kicks you out the door? Usually its the other way around.. If you are McDonald's all American, schools will let you go with multiple mistakes..

I mean why would Bill Self want to get rid of an all American player who just hit a 3 pointer to tie GeTech in elite eight in NCAA tournament.

JR must have done something. There is gatta be something else. Something needs to come out after this book.

John Randall 3 years, 2 months ago

McD aside, JR wasn't in sniffing range of All American. All through college and briefest possible NBA benchwarming, he didn't improve as a player because he couldn't admit he needed to. As a person, he may have grown a little when he was forced by at least four coaching staffs to realize that behavior has consequences.

In two years at KU, JR was directly responsible for two exits from the big dance – his miss against GT and his MANY misses against Bucknell. He just refused to learn to play as part of a team.

Paul Mitten 3 years, 2 months ago

So Jayhawk faithful, why is it that we automatically forgive Paul Pierce for getting stabbed? Just because he's a better basketball player?

John Randall 3 years, 2 months ago

PP wasn't the instigator in his stabbing incident, JR was. That may have something to do with it.

ytf23 3 years, 2 months ago

There are some major problems with your post here...

First of all, If you were actually one of the 'we' as the Jayhawk faithful, you would know more about the two situations and how they were different. Seeing as how you are obviously ignorant of the situations, let me educate you.

JRG was stabbed in an incident where he was, according to witnesses, one of several instigators outnumbering a person who ended up pulling a knife against superior numbers (and athletes at that).

According to witnesses, PP was stabbed while trying to break up a fight. He was stabbed 11 times with a bottle broken over his head. In this case, there is obviously nothing to forgive, since there was no criminal act on his part.

Finally, If you don't know something and you want to ask, you need to watch your tone. Don't come on our boards and act like a troll.

jhawkrulz 3 years, 2 months ago

Don't worry we love picking on all of your players as well...

westernkshawk 3 years, 2 months ago

My thoughts exactly. Why does ANYBODY give credibility to this crap by posting it on a KU website!! I would expect it from an outsider but not one of our own!! Shame on you LJW!!

REHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

HA! Over 120 comments re this article. LJW has chosen to print a book excerpt which has touched a vein with the Jayhawk faithful and other posters. Even the national sports press has picked up on the Giddens thing. And did I just read that today (or tomorrow, by European timeline) J R has parted ways by mutual agreement with yet another team? He has come a long way and clocked many dollars since the spring of his sophomore year in Lawrence. But the old adage re spots on a leopard might still apply. Bill Self is one tough nut who is not about to be cracked by the occasional miscreant in his program. All coaches eventually must deal with athletes who become poison to their dreams for peaceful winning traditions. Young "immature" J R is fortunate that he didn't pick up his practice jersey from the team laundry and find a skull and crossbones with a big red slash stenciled on the front and backside. Fortunate for J R, he was able to relocate and pursue his own dreams in his own inimitable manner, quite a distance from the subsequent teams which BIll Self was amassing and building at Kansas. There is a heck of a lot more to team chemistry and winning Div. I hoops than the potential ingredient of a hard headed McDonald's All American whose offcourt fiascos drag down everyone with whom he associates. I wonder what Josi Lima now thinks when she reads her name tossed out so bluntly by her former boyfriend. And I wonder if Giddens had kept his nose clean in offcourt situations whether Bill Self and staff could ever have coached him into the steady focus and greatness which his early promise seemed to portend. It would appear that he still does not get it.

jhawkrulz 3 years, 2 months ago

I wonder if he was invited to the "Legends" game?

Jaminrawk 3 years, 2 months ago

It would have been nice for him to explain WHY he was stabbed and what he was doing at Moon Bar that night. Instead he's throwing Self under the bus because he's still bitter. It's no revelation that Giddens had been in Self's doghouse for many, many things before he was stabbed for getting into it with someone at place he shouldn't have been at. Pretty sure all of those guys that came back for the Legends of the Phog have a VERY different opinion of Bill Self.

REHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

I am glad that King and Newell chose to do this interview and include J R in their book. And I do not view this inclusion as a slam at Self or the university. It shows another of the many facets of bigtime university athletics, the strife which occasionally rears its head in all programs everywhere. I think Bill Self has done a masterful job at running his portion of the Jayhawk show. No need for him to stoop to the level of explaining or commenting on the article or the long past situation. Regardless of his personal interaction with members of his roster, he was under the gun to maintain a clean program, free from the nightmare of negative media focus. After the Giddens and Giles meltdowns, the baskeball staff has really been placed in the position of heavyhanded guardianship over the reputation of the program. Woe to those who shake up the tranquility which has existed since Tyshawn's last venture into mayhem!

kcjayhawk15 3 years, 2 months ago

A lot of amazing banter regarding this story! I agree with Newell's decision to include J.R.'s interview as it offers a very realistic view of collegiate athletics and how ultimately, many players are cast to the wayside following questionable (in this case, many) decisions and underperformance. J.R. Giddens was in immensely talented individual and following Roy's departure, still chose to come to Kansas and play for Bill Self. I remember seeing him play against Michigan State and was extremely excited about his athleticism and raw talent. He had a successful freshman campaign, but as a sophomore, struggled on the court dealing with high expectations and an increased expectancy of his overall contribution. He was a low impact player with a reluctancy to do anything other than throw up countless outside shots. He was a disappointment as a player. I don't view Coach Self's comments regarding Micah Downs superiority as demeaning, but rather as motivation for Giddens to improve his play. There have been countless players at Kansas that haven't been blatantly outstanding or led the team in statistical categories, but b/c of their outstanding character and hard work, ended up being major contributors to the program and to college basketball ( i.e. Christian Moody, Greg Gurley, Tyrel Reed just to name a few.) But when you combine Giddens' inability to contribute with his offcourt antics, I not only do not blame Coach Self's actions, but rather fully support them! It sounds obvious to say, but the coaches deal with the players and all their problems on a constant basis. As fans, we only hear of a minute percentage of what actually goes on. Suffice to say, no one knows more about Giddens and all of his drama then Coach Self. I regret Giddens not working out, as well as the negative notoriety he brought to the program, but ultimately things worked out as they should have. As many have already pointed out, without his departure, Self would not have landed Brandon Rush, whose importance to the program was clearly immeasurable. RCJH!

Jhawk59 3 years, 2 months ago

Robinson didn't cock back to throw a brick at a guy laying on the ground being kicked by 4 other dudes. There's a reason Criswell was never prosecuted for stabbing Giddens.

ku_foaf 3 years, 2 months ago

When we were at a game in Waco, we went down on the floor afterwards and the KU players. were there. My wife, who had some rough characters at her HS, commented that Giddens seemed like a thug and she had a bad feeling about him. It was only a few months later that he got into the fight.

My nephews were students at the time, and said everyone on campus believed Giddens was an instigator. It was also believed that Giles had hit the guy in the head with a brick, hence little tolerance when he was in more trouble.

Moule stayed on campus because he was not involved in criminal activity and enjoyed respect.

DocBean 3 years, 2 months ago

What's with all the typos, is that really how it's written in the book?

REHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Someone out there is inclined to compare Thomas Robinson's bar infraction to that of J R Giddens...and is tossing around the word IDIOTS? Wow!

jumpinjayhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

The kid still hasnt grown up. He still blames others for his own actions and takes no responsibility for what he did. He will probably always think it was Bill Self and KU that abandoned him, but the truth is J.R. abandoned himself and he abandoned KU. The thing you do not understand J.R. is that Bill was forcing you to grow up and become a man, its apparently clear, you're still a boy.

wileykufan 3 years, 1 month ago

I suppose the fact that JR was at a bar (after curfew mind you) that Self has specifically told him to stay away from had nothing to do with this situation.

Or the fact that everyone thought JR was going to be brought up on felony assault charges

Or the fact that when he came here he was told to keep his nose clean since he had robbed a wal-mart before he signed his LOI.

But JR is right - it's all Self's fault - GMAFB

notorioushawk 3 years, 1 month ago

I am in awe at all of the backlash for the writing/releasing of this portion of the book. In this age of media being used as an outlet to spin different situations, and the widespread problems going on nationwide in the NCAA, complete transparency is a good think IMO. Sure, the immediate response can be a fear that JR getting the boot could cast a shadow on KU, but in the long term, I think it is a good thing. It shows that as a university, KU will give you ample opportunity to learn from mistakes (see previously mentioned wally world incident and any number of other player incidents in past years). However, if you become a repeat offender or "cancer" to the team or university, you are gone.

As it has been stated multiple times during this discussion, there are certainly multiple sides to every story. All indications are that JR was the instigator in the stabbing incident. Regardless, he had no business putting himself in the situation to begin with.

JR will, in my mind, always be one of the biggest busts in the history of Jayhawk basketball. He came in with loads of potential and even more room for growth, but squandered it away by not being a team player in so many ways. This excerpt just reaffirms my beliefs that we were better off without him. I'll use the same line I had following his departure from the program. Good riddens to Giddens. Thanks for nothing, except for making us realize the kind of self-centered waste of talent you were/are.

KEITHMILES05 3 years, 1 month ago

The book is filled with some pretty startling revelations all the way from Sherron hating Carl Henry to CJ Giles and his bad upbringing to Langford getting a girl pregnant and she getting an abortion to Roy very much Al Bohl as Bohl wanted to emphasize football more and Roy hating him for it. A very much tell all book.

Commenting has been disabled for this item.