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Big 12 Conference

Monday, September 19, 2011

Keegan

Leftovers on menu for KU

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If you just can’t stand to read the painful truth, put the paper down and go for a walk, or pop in a CD, or turn on the TV, or read a book, or swear off following sports for the rest of your life and replace it with a more stable hobby, you know, like playing the stock market.

The truth is, Kansas University is on the brink of ranking as one of the biggest losers in the conference realignment musical-chairs game it had nothing to do with setting in motion.

The Big 12 had great football and basketball leagues and was the perfect fit for Kansas, a strong and loyal member. First Nebraska and Colorado bolted. Then Texas A&M. Now Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and Texas and Texas Tech could announce any day that they are joining the Pac-16.

The Big East would have been a nice fallback position when it was the Big East, but it ceased being the Big East over the weekend, when Syracuse and Pittsburgh fled to the ACC. Connecticut is trying to follow them and looks to be in a strong position to become the ACC’s 15th school. Rutgers wants to be the 16th.

The Pac-12, if the presidents uncomfortable about how Texas Tech and Oklahoma State measure up academically agree to follow the recommendations of commissioner Larry Scott, isn’t interested in Kansas.

The Big Ten’s not expanding for now.

So where does that leave Kansas? Up a creek without a paddle, along with Missouri, Kansas State, Baylor and Iowa State.

Now what?

Pray that the ACC allows for one exception in its desire to own the Eastern seaboard and invites Kansas instead of Rutgers.

Such a conference would allow ACC schools to brag about winning 10 of the past 13 NCAA Tournament titles in basketball: UConn (1999, 2004, 2011), Duke (2001, 2010), North Carolina (2005, 2009), Maryland (2002), Syracuse (2003) and Kansas (2008) have won it all in the past 13 seasons.

Conference realignment is driven by football, but putting together such a phenomenal basketball league without question would add value to a conference.

The ACC is smart enough to know it’s never going to rank with the SEC, Big Ten and Pac-12 in football, so it decided to assemble the greatest basketball conference of all-time. If you’re going to do that, do it all the way and invite KU instead of Rutgers.

Not an impossible dream, but not likely. Rutgers, the state university of New Jersey, gives the ACC a foot in the New York TV market, whatever that means.

Again, now what? Form a league with Big 12 and Big East leftovers. Not a terrible league, except that all it does is kick the can that is realignment anxiety down the road a year or two, when conferences that haven’t expanded yet choose to do so. The best football schools will be looking to get stolen away, the basketball-only schools will grow tired of the negative recruiting vibes the instability brings and break off to form their own conference.

On a positive note, Kansas will get to extend its rivalries with Kansas State and Missouri, at least until the next shake-up.

It’s such a shame Texas was so weirdly obsessed on getting into a measuring contest with everyone that it led to a mass exodus.

Comments

royaljayhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Man, I wish I would have simply asked Keegan what was going to happen in conference realignment when this whole thing started since he clearly has his finger on the pulse of what is going to happen. Kansas will not form a conference with leftover Big East teams. Mark my words!

Ryan Wood 3 years, 2 months ago

Man, I wish I would have simply asked royaljayhawk what was going to happen in conference realignment when this whole thing started since he clearly has his finger on the pulse of what is going to happen.

royaljayhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

You should have.. I certainly wouldn't have wasted your time telling you we should look at joining the Big East the way Keegan has been blabbering about the last few weeks. Of all options, that was clearly always the worst, because, like the Big 12, the Big East wasn't going to survive either. Yet, through it all, that was the option Keegan was promoting.

Yeah, you should have asked me all along. It would certainly have been a better investment of your time than reading about the Big East would have been..

royaljayhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

I have no problems with the PAC, but if we are praying, why not pray for B1G? It makes far more sense geographically, and we would have a far greater chance to stay with our rivals, or at least one of them.

The B1G is going to have to go to 16 teams just like the others, and we know one will be ND. That still leaves 3 more spots. Why wouldn't Kansas make perfect sense for one of those spots? They are an AAU institution, and fit perfectly with MU, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois and Minnesota all being within a 7 hour car drive.

I realize our football doesn't meet the standard of many of the B1G, but we can certainly play with Iowa, Indiana, Minnesota, Purdue and Illinois. To me, the best thing that could ever happen would be a B1G that included KU, MU, and Nebraska.

Just my $.02

royaljayhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Well if either of our prayers are answered, we will certainly be in far better shape than Keegan is suggesting! I'd be happy either way..

Gary McCullough 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm with you on the B1G. KU, Mizzou, and the B1G people have been really quit throughout the maelstrom over the past few weeks. Could it be that talks have been going on to add KU and MU to the B1G. It makes sense both in terms of geography and culture.

And that is my $.0.02

Rock Chalk, y'all.

Ryan Sullivan 3 years, 2 months ago

Everyone pump your breaks. Even if ACC also accepts UConn and Rutgers AND PAC 12 takes OU, OSU, Tex, and Tex Tech, this whole thing will only be half over at that point.

That gives the ACC and PAC 12 each 16 schools. You think the SEC is gonna sit there with only 13 and the Big 10 only 12? No way. Assuming that the 4 current Big 12 schools do go to the PAC 12, the only conferences that would be an impossibility for KU would be the PAC 12 and the SEC. Where's the SEC gonna get the other 3 schools? The ACC! The ACC could add 4 schools from the Big East and turn around and lose 2 or 3 to the SEC. That puts the ACC back in play for KU.

What about the Big 10? They don't seem to be interested in KU, but they are gonna have to go to 16 teams. What 4 teams are they gonna want over KU? Notre Dame may be forced to join a conference - likely the Big 10. You could say that Big 10 would want Mizzery next, but then what. West Virginia? Maybe. KU? Can't be too far down the list.

The best thing that can happen for KU is for all of these things to happen quickly. Once the other schools anounce their moves, the other conferences will look to go to 16 schools and we'll land in one of the four 16 team conferences. They're just aren't 64 other schools to comprise the four 16 team conferences that are more attractive than KU.

NH_JHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

While your scenario could definitely play out, dont forget that the ACC just voted recently to increase the penalty for any of it's current member schools to leave to $20 million exit fee. So if SEC were to target FSU, VaTech, etc. that's big big money that those schools are gonna have to pony up just to join a "BCS relevant" conference which is a luxury those school already seem to have now that the ACC is adding Pitt/Syracuse. So why would they pay $20million to go to SEC if they are BCS relevant in their existing conference?

Also, there is no guarantee that any of the conferences would absolutely have to make a move to 16 teams. A lot of the talk of "16 team superconferences" has been drummed up by fans and the media. Again, I'm not saying your scenario doesn't play out (let's hope it does or else KU is in a world of hurt) I'm just saying to approach all this with caution as nothing is guaranteed at this point.

lifetimeJay 3 years, 2 months ago

Not saying that this will stop anybody, but the ACC approved an increase in penalties to any team wanting to leave the conference to $20 mil. So that has the potential to stop (or slow) losing the 2 or 3 teams you mention going to the SEC.

royaljayhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

I don't even understand Keegan's thoughts most of the time.... His grammar is the least of my concerns!

Ben Kane 3 years, 2 months ago

i'm right there with you on that sentence. i had to re-read it 3 times.

andrewbary 3 years, 2 months ago

edit: "Some of the PAC-12 presidents were uncomfortable with how TT and OSU measured up academically. Commissioner Larry Scott recommended they not take Kansas. If they follow him, they won't be interested in taking Kansas." I think.

pepper_bar 3 years, 2 months ago

Another completely uninformative column about realignment from Keegan. And was that a crude reference to "measuring" at the end? I can't tell.

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

Forlorn Five not even mentioned. Bad sign.

Joseph Kuebel 3 years, 2 months ago

Rutgers! There is a program thay will generate revenue!! Syracuse is NYs college team (if u wanna say they even have 1)... Rutgers? Really??

Ya, it is incredible to me Utah, TTU, OK St. have real conferences and KU doesn't. This is awful, we are being grouped with Iowa state, baylor, and kstate??

Talk about getting the shaft-purely on view by the rest of America...that Kansas is in the middle of nowhere, a ("cornfield"- wheatfield) without having OU or NUs football team... People hear Kansas and thru think of the Wizard of Oz, and its ignorance that schools like Utah, Rutgers, OK St. and Texas Tech could even possibly get in to a power conference while we get thrown to a mid-major conference.

Our Bball team, gone... Our football team, even weaker than before. Our pride as KU fans... Out the window into the trash. Last year we should have taken the offer from the Pac to leave and Utah was taken in haste, to KUs demise.

Is this hell? Cuz it feels like it.

Jeremy Bolinger 3 years, 2 months ago

This is what happens when you're reactive instead of proactive. It's a crappy situation to be in. We are Kansas, and we bring more to the table than schools like Texas Tech and Colorado. Thank God Memphis has proved you don't need to be in a big 6 conference to win big. But this is a failure on Perkins and Zengher. Heck, I'm sure there's more than just those 2.

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

Rutgers: Not so much the NY TVs, but the NJ TVs. New Jersey has about three times the population of KS. But they are much more professional sports oriented.

Rutgers would be wise to change their name from "Rugers (the university of New Jersey)" to "The University of New Jersey - Rutgers" today.

matlockhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

I hope Jesus comes back soon. Something needs to start making sense.

klineisanazi 3 years, 2 months ago

He lives in Austin...or at least a guy does that claims to have a direct line to him marked Gawdalmight on his speed dial. If the line is busy he just gathers with thousands of his closest friends in a football stadium and hopes the noise gets His attention.

Clarence Haynes 3 years, 2 months ago

The Devil (AKA Deloss Dodds) lives in Austin!

Eric Dawson 3 years, 2 months ago

Then it's a good thing Jesus lives there, too!

nuleafjhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Bound for New Orleans ?

You might not seem Him, But He'll see you just the same. You don't have to worry, 'cause takin' care of business is His name.

Andy Tweedy 3 years, 2 months ago

Thanks, nule! I saw them when I was 18, and that's the first nice thought I've had since I saw the ACC move!!!

Dan Pawlowski 3 years, 2 months ago

"The Pac-12, if the presidents uncomfortable about how Texas Tech and Oklahoma State measure up academically agree to follow the recommendations of commissioner Larry Scott, isn’t interested in Kansas." Huh? If anyone says they have the finger on the pulse of conference realignment then I suggest that you ask them to smell their finger for a true indication of where its been....

blackhawkjayhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Again, try reading. Keegan has stated that the Pac 1,000 is hesitant to bring in low-rated academic schools, but that Larry Scott wants them to do so. Heck, they already brought in Colorado, so the bar has been set pretty low. The Pac 2,000 has completely failed it's original mission. If they had taken in OU and Texas, then it would have made some sense.

Originally I thought that holding the Big 12 together was our best option but Keegan makes a good point: that league might not be anymore stable than the one we are currently in.

The Big 10 is where we need to focus.

Also, Keegan wrote that Rutgers gets you into the NY television market. He didn't say that Rutgers, a New Jersey school, is New York's college team. For those of you who haven't traveled east of the Mississippi, Rutgers is located near NYC - which means that Duke, UNC, etc. would potentially be on NY TV even more than they are now. NYC is a basketball market when it comes to college - it would be a great set-up for the traditional basketball powers.

Wherever KU ends up, the bottom line is that the conference was done in by an emotional reaction by A&M followed up by an emotional reaction by OU. Breaking up this league still makes zero economic, academic or athletic sense.

Rick Arnoldy 3 years, 2 months ago

The conference was done in the the arrogance and greed of Texas.

Rick Arnoldy 3 years, 2 months ago

The conference was done in the the arrogance and greed of Texas.

DRsmith 3 years, 2 months ago

KU and KSU can always join conference USA. This actually might be a bigger hit to KU's recruiting than Self's ineptness over the last couple of years.

ParisHawk 3 years, 2 months ago

"Ineptness" is a harsh term. Self was criticized in the past for not getting the "top" recruits. Then he recruited #3 ranked Xavier Henry, then #1 ranked Josh Selby. On paper, his recruiting improved over the last couple of years.

Now if you mean recruiting for this year's freshman class, no question there's a problem, what with more guys gone than expected, some disappointing losses to other schools and Braeden not eligible. How many scholarship players do we have on the roster anyway? I hope double figures...

HawkDigestCom 3 years, 2 months ago

How has ESPN not mentioned to the Big 10 that they really like the concept of Big Monday with Ohio State at Allen Field House or KU at Michigan State? I know it's not football money, but you do have TV ratings to think about December through early March. KU and MU to the Big 10 seems to fit.

tical523 3 years, 2 months ago

TOTALLY AGREE!! Big Monday or those noon CBS games have to bring in big time advertisement revenue. The perfect world would have us joint the BIG TEN with Mizzou but it seems very unlikely, sucks.

JayDocMD 3 years, 2 months ago

Man I'm glad he wrote this. Any conference realignment expertise shared through a Keegan article has quickly been met with the reality of the opposite. It's the best possible thing that could have happened this morning for KU. I'm expecting an announcement any minute now accepting KU into the Big 10.

Eric Dawson 3 years, 2 months ago

Good point! Allows me to see past his little kid whining, thanks!

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 2 months ago

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Hammertoe 3 years, 2 months ago

Keegan's right. The truth hurts. The only thing KU has to bargain with is Basketball. Conference Realignment is driven by Football, TV Revenue, Location, Major Markets, etc...

juke4jay 3 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, our bad luck is that Kansas City is not a city, and has no media attention. Ditto St. Louis (with respect to Missouri). Oh woe is me, poor Kansas has nothing but a flat land wheat field? LOL, come on people, snap out of it. Rocky road ahead yes, but the NCAA is on a death bed and the super conferences will reign, and KU will be part of one of those conferences. My prayer candles are not lit.....yet!

jchief40 3 years, 2 months ago

The conference that suits Kansas best for me as a fan is the ACC. Seems to be an academic fit too. Chancellors got connections perhaps?? Who knows. But, if not, I'd like to see us in the B1G. Geographically it makes sense and I feel that conference is well balanced in football and basketball. This PAC talk doesn't make sense to me. Tip off times for me would be the worst! As a side note, if the conference tried to stay together I wish Boise State BYU, TCU (who have every right to keep looking since the Big East is losing teams) would join this new conference. Houston if it means more TV sets "whatever that means"

sandheron 3 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

bville_hawk 3 years, 2 months ago

It's been stated over and over that everyone is looking for conference stability, that that is the reason schools have been jumping from one conference to another. Everyone is looking for stability except for one. Texas. Texas sole focus in this process has been squarely on $$. Anyone who would have Texas as a conference mate is asking for trouble. I've said it before "Texas is poison."

jchief40 3 years, 2 months ago

Texas and OU should stay and we should look to add Boise St, BYU and TCU and really bolster the football offerings. Boise St should be a top target for a conference struggling to survive.

jchief40 3 years, 2 months ago

then again I read that "[TCU] naturally would prefer to be in the Big 12, but Pickens said, “I don't think OU or Texas either one wants 'em.”

Read more: http://newsok.com/boone-pickens-wants-tcu-reports-say-big-12-interested-in-byu-air-force/article/3600423#ixzz1YP0QUFtt

The article also mentions that Beebe said the Big 12 "wasn't interested in adding teams from its current geographic footprint."

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

If OU and UT are gone, today or very soon, adding TCU, Tulsa, etc. becomes very attractive.

TXBBall55 3 years, 2 months ago

Are you kidding?!??! I would rather shut down our athletic department (after we fire our idiot leaders).

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

I didn't say it was equivalent or better. It would be a big step down for the conference if the Greedy 2+2 leave today.

ashmole 3 years, 2 months ago

People have got to wake up and smell the coffee. KU has pathetic football, a weak overall athletic program, and a media market at the tail end of the top 50. Basketball is the sole bright spot. If you think academics will attract the Big 10 or PAC 12 ot Kansas, then you've been drinking too much of the Kool-Aid being served up by the PR folks: KU's academic reputation has been falling because of poor campus leadership for a long time now and would pull down the average of conferences that boast Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, and Wisconsin.

KU will be left standing with the also-rans of the Big XII and end up trying to piece something together with their fellow losers in the Big East. The result will not look far different from Conference USA and will lose its BCS automatic bid within a year. The basketball in the league will be tolerable, but recruiting will suffer and new rivalries will be slow to develop. The Big Mondays for KU will get to be fewer and fewer.

People shouldn't be indulging in fantasies of being rescued by the ACC or the Big 10. As reassuring such flights of fancy might be, the road ahead is just not pretty for KU. Bernadette Do-Little's job should be on the line for this, as well as the job of that clearly outclassed AD she hired (let me see, is his name Moe, Larry, or Curly?). It is sad that all the academic and athletic capital KU built up over decades of hard work is now being squandered by third-rate, in-over-their-heads administrators.

TXBBall55 3 years, 2 months ago

Complete and total leadership failure. Both need to resign immediately! I'll NEVER donate to KU until they're both gone.

jchief40 3 years, 2 months ago

How come you two are ready to fire them or refusing to donate when the whole paradigm shift has yet to complete? Both are newly hired .. what inside knowledge do you have that would lead you to believe they are indeed in over their heads during their short tenure? I'm just curious. Details..

TXBBall55 3 years, 2 months ago

First, I start with their lack of results (perhaps not effort) to sever from KSU. KU could have been added to the PAC 12 last year instead of Utah. EPIC FAIL!

Second, even if PAC-12 wasn't in the works, they've allowed KU to be pulled under by the Purple turd U at KSU. A very active "we aren't with them" campaign should have been waged the whole time.

Third, they have FAILED at hiring a FB coach when they hired Gill -- a coach with NO WINNING RECORD. They completely failed at understanding that a big bet on football was necessary. They just set the school back 50 years at least...

I could go on, but this admin is FAIL FAIL FAIL. I don't care that they have been radio silent in terms of public announcements (see Pitt), but there are only a couple of chairs left. If they grab one, I'll GLADLY eat my words. However, KU is now a lost institution and it's embarrassing and it happened on THEIR WATCH. PERIOD! .

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

If not invited soon, we must work toward making KU more attractive to the Big 10. Expand the stadium, add much nearby parking, dramatically improve access so that people can get there easier from K-10 and won't leave early to avoid a two hour wait in traffic, improve our academics, beautify the campus, improve PR, etc.

Start this today. A big fundraiser is needed, and the two head coaches should be the figurehead co-chairs.

The City of Lawrence has much to lose, so they need to go deep on this too, both politically and financially.

The State may even want to fund big improvements at KU and KSU, otherwise the entire state may be left out in the cold. I'd vote for a modest tax increase to do this.

jchief40 3 years, 2 months ago

It's just a game. Taxes ehhhh don't get carried away now. heh

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

Without bigtime Jayhawk and Wildcat sports to cheer for, we might all realize that we live in the middle of nowhere. That would be depressing.

selfishhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Agree 1000%. I said this last year and I will say it again: This has the potential to have the most lasting impact on the state of Kansas since the civil war.

hawksince51 3 years, 2 months ago

I can understand the geographical reason for the ACC to take Rutgers over KU but there are no other reasons. I lived in NJ in the '90's and went to some of their football and basketball games. They had poor crowds who would rather cheer for the likes of Penn State or Duke than their state university. It is a pro sports state both for stadiums and TV. There is absolutely no link to the NY TV market as New Yorkers have no interest in the "bridge and tunnel" people' state. But is their a reason for the ACC to take KU--one--BASKETBALL!! We can only hope that is a good enough reason.

Andy Tweedy 3 years, 2 months ago

IMHO blaming SZ and BGL for this is just ridiculous. This mess was created by previous administrations and by the fans of our beloved school! You can't just crash the ball whenever you want. If nobody asked us to join, what are they supposed to do, kick in the door? It just doesn't work that way! Other than Lew Perkins, who ever made football a priority at this school? Fans leave at halftime, pray for basketball season to start, dump their tickets on Nebraska fans, on and on and on. We have been a proud basketball school for decade upon decade, and that's fine. But when the landscape of college athletics changes, and it becomes all about football, we have few to blame but ourselves! I live in Nebraska, and they sell 80K tickets during 5-7 seasons. We sell 50K tickets during 12-1 seasons. And the track? Don't get me started on the track! We have never even tried to be taken seriously as a football school and this is what it got us!

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

Is there another place that the Kansas Relays can be held? Or do we need to build it a new facility on west campus?

Clarence Haynes 3 years, 2 months ago

If that vital, move ahead with planned development of the track and field facility at the so called Olympic complex

jchief40 3 years, 2 months ago

Did you read anything about imminent moves to the ACC from Syracuse and Pittsburgh before this weekend?

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

No. But the rumor is that they acted quickly because they knew WVU was applying to the SEC.

Eric Dawson 3 years, 2 months ago

Nothing about those moves before this weekend, but all the reporting about it I've read has noted that the ACC has been looking at realignment behind closed doors since last summer. That's the way to do business -- get it done quietly then announce the results. Just hoping KU's leadership is doing the same.

Brian Skelly 3 years, 2 months ago

The only real "hope" is that the Big 10 is feeling some heat to expand. But clearly their first choice will be the golden domers. My guess is they'll still say no, but who knows.

I do agree that if all four 'bigs' go to 16 each, we're probably in the Big 10. But have we seen any indication at all of that happening? Even halve-arsed rumors and internet junk? Hell no.

Even the SEC's dalliances show no sign above going over one more plus A&M (to 14). While I DO think Mizzou would be a fit there, has there been any thing remotely public other than internet banter... and even then its been minimal. My guess they'd go after WV before Mizzou.

We'd all like to think KU / Mizzou to the Big 10 makes sense. There's a logic to that thinking, that isnt JUST wishful thinking. But unless the Big 10 is compelled to do so, its just talk.

I think we need to prep for one or two more years of BCS qualifying in the "Big mess of leftovers" and hope to the deity of ones choice that in that time the Big 10 wants us and would take us.

Otherwise we're essentially Gonzaga with a richer tradition of hoops.

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

If the Greedy 2+2 leave, then the best case is that ND says no to the Big 10, the ACC takes Rutgers and UConn too, and the SEC takes UWV. Then the Big 10 needs to take at least two and their obvious choice is MU and KU, both AAU members.

But even better would be for the B1G to take KU, MU, KSU, and ISU.

If separated we'd all need to promise to play each other each year, including Baylor when possible, because we're good, honorable people in this part of the country.

Robert Brock 3 years, 2 months ago

The B1G will not consider K-State since the Cats don't qualify academically.

Eric Dawson 3 years, 2 months ago

Stuff from the Internet news sources from late last night -- WVU has supposedly applied to the SEC. The ACC is talking with UConn (who has stepped up its talks since this weekend according to Andy Katz) and Rutgers is a great academic fit to get the ACC to 16 and give the ACC and additional presence in the NYC (#1 media market), NJ (8.8M population) and eastern Pennsylvania media markets (Philly is the #4 mm). If Rutgers joins the ACC, Rutgers will get a lot more media coverage in the superpopulated area, even if its only because of the tarred heels, devils, Syracuse, UConn and Pitt playing them. see http://www.rockchalk.com/boards/read.php?9,3711,3719#msg-3719 for the links.

akai04 3 years, 2 months ago

Just to put this out there..not sure you can say that K-State doesn't qualify academically...

K-State ranks first nationally among state universities in its total of Rhodes, Marshall, Truman, Goldwater and Udall scholars in the last 25 years. Among the public universities, K-State is #1 and KU is #6. Other Big 10 schools in the top 10: Penn State (#4), Michigan (#7), Illinois (#8). How could the Big 10 not want K-State and KU?

Rank among the 500 state universities 1. Kansas State University 2. Arizona State University 3. University of North Carolina 4. Penn State 5. University of Virginia 6. University of Kansas 7. University of Michigan 8. University of Illinois 9. University of Arizona 10. University of Washington

Ranking by scholarship among state universities No. 1 in all-time Truman scholars No. 1 in all-time Goldwater scholars No. 2 in Rhodes scholars since 1986 No. 2 in all-time Udall scholars No. 3 in Marshall scholars since 1986

Rank among all 2,400 public and private universities 1. Harvard 2. Yale 3. Stanford 4. Princeton 5. Duke 6. Kansas State 7. Brown 8. Chicago 9. MIT 10. Cornell

Jonathan Kealing 3 years, 2 months ago

Rhodes scholarships, until just a couple years ago, were a state-by-state competition. So, while K-State does well, it's competition was only KU (and WSU, to a lesser degree). And, if you go back any more than 25 yers, it's tilted vastly in KU's favor. That's one of K-State's favorite marketing line, but at the very least it's extremely misleading.

akai04 3 years, 2 months ago

Although your argument for Rhodes scholars may hold, that doesn't change the total number of Rhodes, Marshall, Truman, Goldwater and Udall scholars for KSU "in the last 25 years." I don't think that marketing line is that misleading as KSU does state that those totals are from the last 25 years. It's not a statement to say that KU sucks or is worse than KSU. To me it's more of a statement on the improvement of KSU's academic standings. I'm curious to see how KSU and KU rank among all public and private universities in the past 50 or 100 years. I do believe KU and KSU are both pretty good academic schools.

STL_Jayhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

"I do agree that if all four 'bigs' go to 16 each, we're probably in the Big 10. But have we seen any indication at all of that happening?"

IMHO, each conference will expand to 14-16 teams just to keep their leverage in the BCS. If I recall correctly, it was assumed that once some of these "superconferences" expanded to 16 teams, they would request and additional BCS automatic bid. They could easily make a case for it in a conference that included, Oregon, USC, Texas, Oklahoma, etc. compared to the B1G as it currently stands. The PAC-16 could have 2 undefeated teams playing each other in a conference championship and 2 other teams with only one loss. They would not be happy if only one team played for the title and one other made it to a BCS game. The SEC could make that argument now (over the B1G), much less if it expanded to 16 teams.

I just hope whatever happens, happens fast. This has got to be hurting recruiting. And if KU is left out of the superconferences, I think we will have a hard time keeping the wolves away from HCBS.

tychi_jayhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Don't know what that means. B1G is the best option hands down. It's always been that way. We should have just accepted their offer in 1993 and we wouldn't be in this mess.

lama 3 years, 2 months ago

KU's best hope is that the Big 10 starts grabbing leftovers to put pressure on Notre Dame to join a league. With the Big East in tatters, the Irish have no place for their other sports. If the remnants of the Big 12 and Big East can form a league, Notre Dame can remain an indpendent in football.

jhawkrulz 3 years, 2 months ago

In the Orangeblood article, it said that Texas was cited as saying that Kansas and Missouri both had options, I'm still curious what those options are.

The one fear that UT and OU have is that there will be 5 teams left in the Big XII to collect exit fees. They have to know that at least Missouri or Kansas is leaving.

Give us the news here Keegan.

jhawkrulz 3 years, 2 months ago

IT was written after Syracuse and Pitt joined the ACC.

miajhwk 3 years, 2 months ago

If you own Rutgers, UConn, and Syracuse, you own the NYC college football market. The ACC has picked off Syracuse. It is assured that UConn and Rutgers will end up there.

FLJHK 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm not into Keegan bashing, but I must say this article offered nothing of value.

Things look bleak right now, and I'm as depressed about that as anyone, but until the story is complete it is unfair to attack the Chancellor or the AD.

Reality is Kansas has been the victim of a perfect storm, and most of it is due to simple geography/market size, coupled with an unstable conference and greedy conference members. Being a basketball first school isn't a poor decison; it's who we are. Besides, being a basketball first school certainly hasn't hurt Duke, UNC, Kentucky, or Arizona, and it likely won't hurt UConn down the line either. But they benefit from geography and in most cases conference stability.

Some folks seem to believe Kansas has more leverage than we likely actually do. The rumor of a Pac 12 offer last year was debunked by Perkins. I continue to hope a Big 10 offer might come in the future, but obviously that can't be assumed.

In the meantime, KU is not only right to play this game with some grace and dignity. It not only reflects positively on our common values, but is really the only choice available. Hopefully, "the darkest hour is just before dawn."

jhawkrulz 3 years, 2 months ago

Matt has done such a good job covering this, but on the day when so much is going to happen where is his hourly updates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hawksince51 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm sure we will hear from him after the OU and UT meetings today.

LogicMan 3 years, 2 months ago

Probably trying to pull himself out of a deep depression, like the others of us traditional Big 8+ fans.

Ryan Mullen 3 years, 2 months ago

Tom If you just can’t stand to read the painful truth, put the paper down and go for a walk, or pop in a CD, or turn on the TV, or read a book, or swear off following sports for the rest of your life and replace it with a more stable hobby, you know, like playing the stock market.

Tom if KU goes down so does your job at the LJW. Within 2 years of not being in a major conference those who read your crap will not be anymore. So you may want to defect now while you can. I here the PAC, SEC, and ACC are looking to expand. See ya good bye.

sm5561 3 years, 2 months ago

I'm sure I'll get blasted for even suggesting BEast merge isn't horrible, so let me preface this by saying that we should do whatever is possible to get into one of the big four conference. Any of them. I don't care which one.

But plan B should be to protect our basketball program. Big East sucks in football, but if you bring along some of the basketball only schools it could still be good for us. Depaul & Marquette would be good for recruiting Chicago area. Georgetown, Seton Hall, St. John's and Villanova would be good for recruiting east coast. TCU, Baylor and maybe another Texas school (SMU? Houston?) would be good for recruiting Texas. Get 10-12 football schools and the best BEast BBall schools and I don't think our BBall program will suffer...

JayHawkFanToo 3 years, 2 months ago

A few canards, red herrings and straw men…

  1. The PAC is the best option – Logistically, this is the worst possible option. Many of the coaches at KU and other conference schools have commented in how the travel arrangements would negatively affect the student players…they still count, don’ they?

Anyone that advocates this affiliation has clearly not travelled to the West Coast. The only palatable option is that several of the current conference teams join the PAC (Colorado apparently is opposed to that) and the majority of the games are played in a pod comprised of teams in this part of the country. Logistically speaking and thinking of the student athletes, the best options would the Big 10 (minimal disruption), Big East (medium), ACC (medium-high), PAC (high).

  1. AAU Association – I have been fortunate to have been at both ends of big research grants evaluations, having been part of more than one university team submitting proposals, and also at the reviewing end evaluating proposals. In all the processes I have been involved, l conference association was never, ever discussed. At times, specific school reputations such as MIT, Cal Tech, Yale, Princeton were mentioned (notice that none of these schools have big athletic programs), but in general the evaluation was based on the specific resources in personnel and facilities that the school had available (See KSU and all the money coming from Homeland security based on its expertise on the subject). Most people involved in research do not know much about sports and frankly don’t give a damn about them.

Let’s face it; as much as conferences boast about common scholastic achievement, they were formed primarily for sports. Didn't Nebraska lose its AAU accreditation but was still taken by the Big 10 despite the musings that only AAU members are allowed?

  1. KU administration is doing nothing - We do not know what the administration is doing or not doing. The entire realignment was started by MU officials and the State Governor publicly courting the Big 10 only to end up with egg on their faces as the Conference took Nebraska, who had been quietly working behind the scenes. The ACC move was also made under secrecy and caught all the pundits by surprise. Let’s wait and see where the chips fall before before we pass judgment on the KU administration and demand their firing, as some have suggested in this board.

Lastly, if not for OU’s president comments, the Big 12 would have added from one to three teams and stayed together, likely stronger than before. As I indicated before, it is ironic that the future of the most mainly of men sports is being decided by Boren, the least manly of men and one individual that would be more comfortable in San Francisco than he apparently is in Norman.

JayHawkFanToo 3 years, 2 months ago

Do you post for the sake of posting and label anyone that does not agree with your views as uninformed?

What part of my post do you believe is uninformed? Would you care to elaborate?

Brian Skelly 3 years, 2 months ago

It's enough to wanna make me puke. If I so had the energy. In reality though, all we can do is wait and see.

We've never been in a position of strength with this... considering "strength" in this equation is our Football program.

We can bash the Chancellor, the AD, past folks at those same positions, but the reality is as Alums and Fans the idea of KU having a football program of sustained strength seems foreign. Lew Perkins upped the ante significantly, and while many fans and alums loved it, a great many -- vocal many regardless of their % -- seemed uncomfortable with it. That includes many things written here at the LJW about stuff. I've got no problem with both views, but KU folks need to be real. We're as much the problem as anything else is here.

We're fortunate that we had the perfect storm a few years ago for the Orange Bowl. While that will be a mere distant memory regardless of our conference situation, our inability to create a sustained program that could go bowling nearly every year is ultimately a big part of the downfall here.

Geography and being a low populated state is a big factor to, one that there's ostensibly nothing one can do about that.

There's no question if we're unable to get into one of the Big 4, that both the school, and by extension the athletic program are going to stall out. It doesnt mean KU hoops wont be good and historic. But if we're unable to be on TV frequently, how is Coach Self going to sell that. History is great, and it does help with recruiting. But if its between KU and a school that is a Big 4 conference with more exposure, more dollars, and more... well... everything that a kid wants... how in the hell is KU going to compete with that?

The "Big mess of whats left" conference wont completely obliterate KU's ability to continue success. But what happens when the BCS is re-upped... or dissolved to only include the big 4? When that "Big mess of whats left" goes away, so does KU's program as we know it. It'll always be decent one would think. I think the top recruits would have a hard time justifying KU over others though when others would be able to offer more.

It isnt the end of the world yet. But we can see it from here.

jgkojak 3 years, 2 months ago

I am shocked by the pessimism. And I'm also shocked by the fact that the JW, who should be putting forth bold visions and leading fan expectations, is putting out this pessimistic garbage.

If the ACC ends up landing Rutgers, there are no more AAU schools for the B10 to pluck - meaning if they ever want to be at 16 (which they will have to) they will need to add at least 3 (if we assume Notre Dame) or 4 (if we believe what ND is saying that they only want to be Indy). Which 4 schools go to the B10?

No one's leaving a 16 team ACC with a kick-ass TV contract (which they'll have given the large markets they are in).

Either the B10 lowers its standards, elevated FBS schools w/decent basketball and AAU status (who would that be?) or

They add Mizzou and Kansas and maintain football quality (Mizzou), upgrade basketball (Kansas) and have two solid academic fits.

Keegan - why don't you do what you're paid to do and do some research - If the B10 expanded who would they add? Look at AAU status, endowments and academic rank.

If a hybrid conference was needed, why wouldn't the Big 5 existing b12 members simply invite THEM into the B12?

Andy Tweedy 3 years, 2 months ago

I like what you have to say, but the Big 10 stood at 11 schools for years when everybody said they should have 12. I'm not as optimistic as you that they will feel the need to expand.

Benjamin Piehler 3 years, 2 months ago

I dunno, the JW has been pretty optimistic till yesterday...

Funhawk 3 years, 2 months ago

Well, if we could increase the state's population, we would have more TV sets and, therefore, no longer be a small market. If you are involved in the business world, you know that small markets often get overlooked. It all comes down to money, whose got it, who doesn't. College football is big business. Sport's editor knows his math. Whatever conference we end up in, I will still have fun cheering for my Hawks, including the football team.

JayDocMD 3 years, 2 months ago

"Well, if we could increase the state's population..."

This. I think not enough people are focusing on this. With all the moaning and whining, here is something that we can actually do something about.

I propose that immediately all available men and women in the state of Kansas begin procreating. This is our only chance. In 18 years and 9 months we will have a huge bump in the target demographic and KS will be in a much stronger position for negotiation.

I've considered every other angle, and there is just no other way. No more talking. It's time for action. For the salvation of Jayhawk-kind... get busy.

bad_dog 3 years, 2 months ago

JayDoc, in order to meet those lofty expectations I recommend visits to the Alpha Chi Omega, Alpha Delta Pi, Alpha Gamma Delta, Chi Omega, Delta Delta Delta, Delta Gamma, Gamma Phi Beta, Kappa Alpha Theta, Kappa Delta, Kappa Kappa Gamma, Pi Beta Phi, Sigma Delta Tau and Sigma Kappa houses.

Not necessarily in any particular order.

Martin Rosenblum 3 years, 2 months ago

I believe that if Perry Ellis chooses KU, considering the tutmoil and uncertainty, KU should be viewed as a school of choice and therefore a much more valuable commodity in the scheme of things. Just as player's "stock" rises and falls before the NBA draft, the direction that recruiting goes in should be of some interest to conferences considering taking on new member schools.

danmoore 3 years, 2 months ago

If find it ironic that the Big 10 with its 2 national titles in the last 40 years will put the Big 12 out of business. They think we're their little sisters but this conference has won 11 national titles since 1970.

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 2 months ago

It was not the Big10's fault, even though they took NU. We should have immediately expanded the conference in response. We did not, got everyone to take an oath of allegiance and look where that got us. So much for the honor system.

danmoore 3 years, 2 months ago

Wasn't it Delaney who started the whole conference realignment talk?

purple 3 years, 2 months ago

K-State and I-State are hosed. Hopefully, KU & MU can stay together and be part of the Big 10. A "pod" with NU, MU, KU and IL sounds pretty good... If the Big 10 doesn't step up, then I'm afraid KU is up the crapper too. MU will have an option now with the SEC or down the road with Big 10.

gardenjay 3 years, 2 months ago

Texas and OU need to leave because they are scared stiff of our basketball program, and the shame it continues to bring them. They keep trying to make up for it with their football programs, but alas, they have learned over the years, and must now search for a new battlefield in the constant strain to survive.

Actually it's money again. Bleah.

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 2 months ago

If we feel that we have to entertain this merger we better not sign anything that locks us in. I would be very, very disappointed if we end up in the Big East and locked into it with no hope of getting out. Talk about looking like bumpkins.

William Weissbeck 3 years, 2 months ago

Out flanked by UCONN again. Maybe we should start asking our lost recruits what they're hearing. It's a better source than what we have now.

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