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Northern Iowa defeats Kansas, 69-67

  • 4:40 p.m., March 20, 2010
  • Ford Center, Oklahoma Cty, OK

Originally published March 21, 2010 at 12:00a.m., updated March 21, 2010 at 02:45a.m.

‘This is terrible’

Panthers stun KU in second round

Kansas forward Marcus Morris covers his head after the Jayhawks' 69-67 loss to Northern Iowa Friday, March 20, 2010 at the Ford Center in Oklahoma City.

Kansas forward Marcus Morris covers his head after the Jayhawks' 69-67 loss to Northern Iowa Friday, March 20, 2010 at the Ford Center in Oklahoma City.

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Kansas falls to Northern Iowa

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The Jayhawks lost to the Panthers Saturday in the second round of the NCAA tournament. Kansas ended its season 33-3.

Reader poll

Which NCAA Tournament loss in the last 20 years stung the most?

  • 1997 Arizona 23% 1698 votes
  • 1998 Rhode Island 4% 323 votes
  • 2005 Bucknell 14% 1041 votes
  • 2006 Bradley 2% 184 votes
  • 2010 Northern Iowa 54% 3978 votes
  • Other 1% 124 votes

7348 total votes.

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2010 KU-Northern Iowa

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Kansas University senior Sherron Collins wept as he made his way from one locker to the next Saturday night in the basement of Ford Center.

He hugged Marcus Morris, Markieff Morris, Tyshawn Taylor, Brady Morningstar, Thomas Robinson — virtually all of his teammates — who, like Collins, needed consoling after the NCAA Tournament overall No. 1 seed’s shocking 69-67 second-round Midwest Regional loss to Northern Iowa.

“Nonstop emotion ... everybody’s teared up. This is terrible,” Collins said after the final game of his career — the final game of an otherwise wildly successful 33-3 season.

“To know I don’t get another chance at it ... it hurts so bad,” Collins said. “KU ... it’s a place I call home. I’ve been in Lawrence four years. I wanted to go out the right way and wasn’t able to.”

Collins missed 11 of 15 shots, including all six of his three-point attempts, found this one so tough to digest.

As did Marcus Morris, who fell in a heap after the final buzzer, and, while crying, had to be assisted off the court.

As did red-shirt Mario Little, who remained sobbing on the bench after the rest of his teammates had headed through the tunnel to the locker room.

“The way we played, we did it to ourselves,” Collins said of a game in which KU dug itself a 10-2 hole two days after trailing Lehigh, 12-4.

“They’re a tough team, but we had opportunities regardless.”

Northern Iowa (30-4) is a tough mid-major team out of the Missouri Valley Conference, a conference that last recorded a victory over a No. 1-ranked squad in 1962 when former Valley member Cincinnati stunned Ohio State.

Are the Panthers a better team?

“No,” Collins said. “We are the better team. We are the best team in the country. We showed it all year. It just happens sometimes.”

The players were not the only ones to feel pain after this one.

Coach Bill Self didn’t hide from a questioner who wanted to know if it was the most painful loss of his career.

“I said in the locker room to the coaches, not the players, it probably is,” Self said. “And the reason it is, is a credit to the players because you work your butt off for a long time. You operate under duress, you operate under pressures the whole year that a lot of teams don’t operate under because of where we were ranked and expectations. And to put ourselves in a position that we were in, they don’t come around every year.

“You’ve got to make the most of those opportunities when you are granted them. That’s probably what stings the most. I don’t know if I’ll watch the tape. I know that there’s just one or two plays here or there that was the difference in the game, but this stings a lot.”

There were a couple of key plays to look at down the stretch.

KU, which trailed, 36-28, at halftime and 47-35 with 12:31 left, crept within one point, 63-62, at :42.8.

After a time out, Ali Farokhmanesh (16 points, 4-for-10 from three) swished a three at :37, boosting the margin to 66-62.

“That was a dagger and a big-time play by a really good player,” Self said.

Tyrel Reed was called for a charge on the next possession.

“A stupid play on my part,” he said.

At :18.1, Kwadzo Ahelegbe cashed one of two free throws, making it 67-62.

Reed scored at :06.4, but Farokhmanesh answered with two free throws at :4.8, with Marcus Morris swishing a meaningless three on the final possession.

As far as general problems contributing to the defeat ...

• “Defense. We didn’t guard,” Collins said on a night the Panthers hit 40 percent of their shots to KU’s 44.4.

• Free throwing.

Xavier Henry followed a 1-of-2 effort from Marcus Morris by missing the front end of a one-and-one with 2:32 left, KU down, 59-56. Adam Koch followed on the other end by getting fouled and hitting a pair of free throws, keeping UNI in charge, 61-56.

“I feel if we made free throws, we’d have been right in the game,” Collins said after the Jayhawks hit 13 of 18 to UNI’s 16 of 19.

“I wasn’t nervous. I came in there and stepped up there confidently like I always do. It didn’t go down,” Henry said. “A couple other people, it also didn’t go down. It wasn’t our day.”

• Offensive boards.

UNI, which was outboarded by KU, 38-30, had 11 offensive rebounds. The Panthers had 18 second-chance points to KU’s 12.

“We didn’t complete all of our assignments and rebound the ball well, but give a lot of credit to Northern Iowa for that,” KU junior guard Reed said.

• And coming out of the gate slowly.

“We were sluggish again,” Henry said. “We knew we couldn’t rely on that every game. This is the game that got us.”

KU’s season is over.

And Collins’ career is officially over, with junior Cole Aldrich (13 points, 10 boards) and freshman Henry (eight points, 3-for-6 shooting) expected to be headed to the pro ranks as well.

Since Collins is the senior, everybody felt the worst for him.

“I would love to see him go out on a better note because today wasn’t a true indication of the player he is,” Self said. “He labored today, but I’ve never coached anybody that’s tougher, harder, more competitive and more an extension of me than what he is. And so when a guy gives you so much for over four years, and it’s over in 40 minutes, it’s a tough reality. But he’ll look back on his career as time passes with the greatest memories because he’s been the face of our program, and certainly I’m awfully proud to have had the opportunity to coach him.”

• A previous version of this story was updated.

Comments

dietrich2007 9 years, 10 months ago

Sad day no doubt but we will have a good if not better, most definatly hungrier team next year. This game (northern iowa) will push us to be better next year. To be consistent an to have that 'killer instict' that I've heard ppl say we lacked this year on here. We won't do it with sherron collins which is upsetting to me because he's such a great person great player an great inspiration to anybody but we have some great guys to help get us there next year. I hope cole an x will be back next year (I have a gut feeling one of the two will be back) but still we'll have a great team with great players next year. ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK

Priest Fontaine 9 years, 10 months ago

Sherron - congrats on an amazing career. You've carried us through so many games. This was one of those games that you needed someone else to step up but no one did.

What a horrible game all around. I am trying to be positive but it's really hard after that performance from our team. They seemed totally unprepared and sluggish. Almost like they were trying not to lose rather than trying to go for the win. Frustrating that when it comes down to the tourney some of our players get such cold feet.

Priest Fontaine 9 years, 10 months ago

Dear Brady Boringstar,

can you please stop wearing those baggy sleeves under your jersey? You may as well be wearing sweat pants under your shorts. Such a bad look. And maybe step up your game when Sherron is having a rare off night? I guess it's too late for that. Hopefully Brandon Knight will come in and continue leading the team where Sherron left off. I really can't see you and your sleeves leading us. Cut the sleeves off any maybe you will be more aerodynamic or at least look better while your tail is tucked between your legs in the tournament. I don't mean to pick on just you but you kind of make it easy. If you just lose those sleeves next season then I promise that I will only post uplifting, positive messages about you.

thmdmph 9 years, 10 months ago

Several things about the KU season.

Unfortunately KU fell way short of expectations in the tournament plays again. When expectations are low, we do well. When expectations are high, we crumple. This is not only with Coach Self, but with Roy too.

I'd like to thank Marcus Morris for an exceptional season. The one thing I will remember and fondly look back about this season is the amazing plays of Marcus Morris. He's the only player to have played above expectations all year long. He's the only one on the team to have played with strength, determination, and passion. He listened to coach. Every time coach gave him a tongue lashing, he came back focused and showed toughness that I wish others on the team emulated.

Although I have been tough on Collins, I just like to thank him for an great KU career. Unfortunately, his senior year, he never fanned out to be an elite KU player that he could have became. He is a great KU player, but not elite. He did get the most wins of all KU history, but he never developed into a consistent player, either in scoring or assisting. Like I said before, KU's success depends so much on Collins and guard plays. Not only because there's such a lack of it in many games, but because with Collins, he can sometimes really drag the team down with him. Unfortunately, this time, there's no chance for redemption. 10 points to show for after taking 21 shots. Regardless, he deserves a congratulatory thank you from KU fans for what he has done for KU and became a leader that KU much needed over the past couple of years. Additionally, without him, we probably would not have won it all in 2008.

As for the rest of the players, it has been quite disappointing.

In my opinion, the least disappointing is Xavier. In the end, he didn't fan out to be the elite scorer that we thought he could be at the next level after his high school career. He has a lot of room for improvement. However, he showed sparks of greatness. However, being a freshman, I have to give him a break. He just didn't fulfill the much needed void that KU had after the 2008-09 season when we really needed a second scoring option after Collins and Aldrich.

thmdmph 9 years, 10 months ago

Now Aldrich. I'm a huge Aldrich fan, but this year, I've got to say, he has been pretty much a disappointment offensively. He has so much potential, but I never saw any sparks or toughness in him. He showed a little bit of the Morris strength, determination, and passion right after his nanny's passing, but it was very short lived. No doubt, he was exceptional on defense. But so many times, he's matched up against much smaller opponents, and yet, he never thoroughly shined. It almost seemed like he played this year knowing that no matter what happens, he's going to get millions in the NBA, so there's no need to hustle like he did his freshman and sophomore years, except on defense.

As for Taylor, I'm not a fan. I think modestly is a virtue (that's why I like Xavier). With that premise, Taylor has very little virtue. He is a great athlete, but he definitely thinks he's better than he actually is. He never played smart. Basketball IQ is so important at the guard position. I hope Selby or Knight will come to KU because they definitely have more basketball IQ and can make immediate impact. Unless Taylor makes a drastic improvement over the summer, EJ would probably pass him on the depth chart as the ball handler.

As for Morningstar and Reed, nothing exceptional to mention. In actuality, they probably got more playing time than they deserve. Reed, thoughout the season, did many bad moves, turnovers, and mistakes that could have costed KU games, but then he came back and make a great defensive move that saves the game. Kinda like Collins, they constantly make one or two great scoring or defensive showing that redeems their prior bad moves. Unfortunate, with this last showing, there's no chance for redemption.

As for Markieff, he constantly got calls against him, mainly because he always put himself in positions for those kind of calls. On defense, he doesn't just stand his ground, but he attacks the defensive player or jumps forward or swings his arms. On offense, he gets out of control. So he gets bad reputation. Then, when the call goes in his favor, he can't capitalize on the line. Markieff and Robinson needs major practice and improvement on the free throws lines if they wish to become impact players.

As for Coach Self, I think he's exceptional. All season long, he tried so hard to keep his players to play to their potential with focus and toughness and determination. You could feel for him. Unfortunately, the only player that responded on a constant basis is Marcus Morris. There were things that I wish Coach did differently with the team, but then as a Sunday morning point guard, we all could sit there criticizing every coaches across the country.

thmdmph 9 years, 10 months ago

This was a painful loss. But in all honesty, I didn't think this was a big shocker because I felt this was coming with KU's inconsistent plays all year. THis team never did put together a good forty minutes. This team never had a reliable money shot three pointer shooter as demonstrated by the last possession shots of the first halves (I'm probably wrong, but KU never converted more than one or two last second 3-pointer at the end of the first half this year). Big men plays has been a disappointment this year except Marcus. How many games did Marcus saved KU's *sses this year because of poor big men plays. Even worse than KU's frontcourt, I think KU's backcourt has been even more unreliable and inconsistent. Not only has the backcourt been inconsistent, it is there that the team gets dragged down. This was KU's Archilles' heel. So many times, Marcus was able to save KU from poor front and backcourt plays, but not this time.

So when does football season begins?

yates33333 9 years, 10 months ago

To be brutally honest, how many forty minute good games did KU play this year? Not many. You could even ask how many thirty minute good games did KU play this year? A few more, but just a few. Maybe the pressure of being highly ranked did it, but something was wrong with a team that had the assets from the previous year and a few more good players added by excellent recruiting. Maybe next year. At least we were better than UNC.

mojayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

My gosh, what negativism! It kills me to see any of you "so called fans" critcize this group of warriors. So we had an off night and UNI played out of their minds. Two 3's by the giant who never hits them, odd caroms from their other missed 3's that seemed to always end up in purple hands.

Lighten up on our team with the criticism. You sound ridiculous! I love these guys, AND their season long effort. Whining about the loss makes you sound like our foes in black and gold.

swense 9 years, 10 months ago

Wonder if all of you long winded ever coached this game????? Yes this team could of, should of and probably would of won it all, but IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN but WASN'T because we simply were off our game too many times last night.......

swense 9 years, 10 months ago

Wonder if all of you long winded ever coached this game????? Yes this team could of, should of and probably would of won it all, but IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN but WASN'T because we simply were off our game too many times last night.......

Jerry Collins 9 years, 10 months ago

Forgive me, but for the next couple of weeks I am going to be a Kansas State Wildcat fan. Would love to see them go all the way. Also rooting for A&M.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

heterohilfiger - the term is "panned out", not "fanned out". Sorry, I usually am not the grammar or spelling police, but to read that expression several times...well I thought you'd want to know that while I respect your opinions and share your frustrations, saying players didn't "fan out" makes your post read pretty ridiculously.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

oops! sorry, guess that was thmdmp, not heterohilfiger with the "fanned out". My bad

Aligned 9 years, 10 months ago

I guess you "fanned out" a little there too! Of course I didn't even read that long-winded nonsense.

Aligned 9 years, 10 months ago

Below are comments about UNI made by Tim Jankovich that were in another KUsports.com story yesterday, and may have been overlooked by many KU fans. Jank is one sharp dude...

“They are the best defensive team we’ve played in our three years,” Jankovich said in a phone interview. “What makes them so good, they have three real bad matchups for teams in our league.

“There’s the 7-foot, 280-pound guy, who is a terrible matchup for all our teams,” Jankovich said of senior Jordan Eglseder (11.9 ppg, 7.4 rpg).

“(Adam) Koch is a great driver at the 4-spot,” he added of the 6-8, 255-pound senior, who averages 11.7 ppg. “Their point guard (Kwadzo Ahelegbe, 6-2, 200, junior) is so big and strong, he overpowers the point guards in our league. Most of us don’t put a point guard on him.

“They’ve got a lot of good shooters, maybe the purest in our league in Ali (Farokhmanesh, 6-0 senior), who hit the shot to beat Vegas. They are excellent at tempo. They keep the score down. They’re very, very good, and they are an old team, an experienced team.”

Jankovich believes top-seed KU can win the game.

“No question ... if Kansas has a good night,” Jankovich said, “because Kansas is a tremendous defensive team and difficult matchup for Northern Iowa. Of course, they will have to play an outstanding game. This is not an easy draw. I know this ... I have a ton of respect for Northern, and Kansas will need to have a good night.”

hawkshot 9 years, 10 months ago

Even with all the wins and high rankings, this team has been one of the most painful to watch all year long. Poor spacing on defense and ball stuck in the hands, no movement on offense. So tired of the 1950's high low offense that looks so awsome the 10% of the time that it works. Players got by with doing stupid things all year long because they were winning.

Shawn Otrimble 9 years, 10 months ago

A perfect storm! A number 1 team who has been playing sluggish of late with everything to lose and an underdog team that has no fear. When a teams 7 footer who has only made one three all year hits 2 in the first 5 minutes, you know were in trouble. I've been to several games this year and what I noticed as our biggest weakness was not having a "killer instinct". A loss of this magnitude (like Bradey and Bucknel) is what creates this. It will piss off the coach, players and fans. So that until we put our self in a position to win it all. We will have a killer mentality. We will want blood and I feel sorry already for the teams we play next year. Like the the 2008 team where our guards were so hungry that they would steal the ball from their own grandmothers and our bigs would just clobber you (I remember when Hansbourgh had the ball in the lane and was knocked to the ground by all 3 of our bigs and the look on his face was priceless). So KU fans don't hang your heads to low because what's better than a team loaded with talent and a great head coach, is one that is pissed off.

Nancy Clyde 9 years, 10 months ago

Thanks Sherron for four great years. You have been a joy to watch. This loss does not define you. It is going to be really hard for me to pick a new favorite Jayhawk next season. That said, I'd love to have Cole around but he needs to do what is best for him and his family.

Ironic for me that in a season that ends this way is the same seaon that made me a true fan. This loss hurts but I'm a true fan now, not just married to one. We'll be back. Looking forward to next year.

dchon 9 years, 10 months ago

It hurts even after 10 hours of sleep and I'm not talking about the hangover..

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

This team accomplished numerous great things. Reaching the 2000 win plateau. Winning a tough Big 12 conference by 4 full games. Sweeping "rivals" K-State & Missouri. Winning the Big 12 Tournament. Playing a tough schedule and only having a couple of hiccups. However, when you enter the season number 1 and are there all but 3 weeks of the regular season and enter the tournament as the #1 overall seed and prohibitive favorite to win it all, this season has to be viewed as a disappointment. When Sherron & Cole openly say they came back to win another National Championship and the team doesn't even make the trip to St. Louis (much less Indianapolis), you can't sugarcoat it. Massive disappointment.

A couple of musings. I think this team was flawed from a personnel standpoint (as was previously mentioned). I love Sherron. One of my top 5 favorite Jayhawks. However, he never quite got rid of the mindset he acquired last year when he needed to put this team on his back all the time. He consistently was putting up the most shots/game by 5 shots or more, and its not as if he was burning up the nets. I had hoped after strong performances following his shaky senior night that this wouldn't hurt us, but 4-15 and 0-6 from 3 really killed us tonight. Even if he'd had a below average shooting performance today we'd have survived, but we couldn't survive a poor one. Heck, that sloth Jordan Eglseder was 2-3 from beyond the arc! We are also severly flawed at the other guard spot. Tyshawn, Tyrel, & Brady simply do not give us what we need to field a truly elite squad. They all have their good qualities. Tyshawn is fast & athletic, things you can't coach. He has the potential to be the best perimeter defender on the team with his length & quick hands. However, he is prone to defensive lapses and is a sub-par shooter. Tyrel is a lights out shooter, but that's about it. He should never attempt to drive to the hoop, as was evidenced today by his two charging violations. And the guy can't guard a ham sandwich. He is a severe defensive liability. Speaking of defense, its time to stop lauding Brady as a "lock-down defender". It's simply not true. He may be an above average defender, leaps & bounds better than Tyrel and more consistent than Tyshawn, but not great. Offensively he is a good passer, but not a threat to score.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

dietrich - I think it is possible for next year's squad to be better than this year's, but I don't think it's a certainty. At the guard spot, I'm really hoping 3 things happen. One, we land Knight, Selby, or Lamb. Two, that Elijah progresses enough to push for a starting role. And three, Tyshawn matures and works on his game to become more of an impact player. Landing one of those recruits is essential. Credit to Tyrel & Brady, and the staff for that matter, they were more or less throw in players rounding out different recruiting classes. Probably 3 star recruits, maybe expected to push the guys in practice but never expected to be impactful players. They have maximized their abilities, but have probably hit their ceilings, and like I said are not elite level players capable of helping this team field an elite squad. This is also why the progression of Tyshawn & Elijah is needed. This means improving his jump shot. It appeared as if once Tyshawn was re-inserted to the starting line-up he was being groomed to take over the point guard duties next year. He will need to cut down on his turnovers. If these things happen we may be better at the guard position next year than we were this year. Again, much love for Sherron, but it seems like he lost his defensive edge once he became a starter. He did a great job on Derrick Rose in the Championship game, but I don't know that we ever saw that kind of performance from him again. Watching K-State tonight I was reminded of what complete and premiere guard play looked like. Pullin & Clemente are forces at both ends of the floor, and you have to have that kind of play in the tournament. I think we are in a better position with our post players, although Cole's defensive presence will definitely be missed. The Twins were great this year, I just worry about how they will be affected without the big fella there to provide defensive support. They are both already susceptible to foul trouble, so I'm hoping they can make the kind of strides defensively this year that they made offensively this past year. If TRob progresses he may be a beast, and we still have yet to glimpse what Withey could possibly bring to the party. Not sure what to expect from the 3. X is gone. He's projected to be a 1st round pick on every mock draft board, and that was always his plan. College one year, then the NBA. I was very pleased with what he brought to this team, including today. He became an above average rebounder and defender, his jump shot helped spread the floor, and he learned to drive the ball and not simply settle for that jumper. Mario Little & Travis Releford are coming off redshirts and have very different games. Travis could also play some minutes at the 2 as opposed to the 3, although he wasn't the best outside shooter last time we saw him, so hopefully he's improved that part of his game.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

We will have plenty of question marks heading into next season. Who will be the leader(s) of this team and what will be the identity of the team? All major players from our national championship team will be gone. Can they pull themselves off the mat following today's disappointment and mesh into a team capable of advancing to a Final 4? Who will get the minutes at the guard spots and can anyone other than Tyrel be counted on to hit a jump shot?

I'm always excited at the start of each season to see how the new year's squad will look. To Sherron, Cole, & X, thanks for all you have meant to Jayhawk nation. You will be missed. Rock Chalk Jayhawk.

superdave 9 years, 10 months ago

The reason we lost is two-fold - UNI had the better point guard and the better center. End of story

KUMARINE42 9 years, 10 months ago

I am deployed to Afghanistan for a year. This loss did sting a lot. They don't play the song "one shining moment for nothing". There can be only one Champion. To the players thanks for a exciting year! I wish you could have gone further in the tournament but I am still a big fan and respect you boys! Don't hang your heads. Reload for next year. I may get blasted for this but lets get behind KSU. They represent our state now so kick some ass Wildcats and remember we beat you three times..lol

Bill Shaw 9 years, 10 months ago

We need more focus on fast breaks and scoring. Remember when reaching 100 was not that uncommon?

This team got in the bad habit of playing just a little better than the opposition. Then the habit of poor starts. One of the best past games was Senior night a couple of years ago.

We should try to set scoring records every game. It will be a long time before we see 150 points again.

Kent Kossoy 9 years, 10 months ago

The sad thing here is while KU is a great basketball school, places like UK, Duke, and UNC do not have these kinds of losses over the history of greatness. This team should only be remembered as the best team to accomplish the least. They are great guys. They were just above average players in the end. I do agree that having 10 starters must have been difficult to coach. Maybe those that do not understand their roles need to transfer. And one and dones go on!! A very sad day indeed!

buffalojayhawk9 9 years, 10 months ago

I gotta agree, he said it: They way they played, they did it to themselves. They just didnt seem to have that hunger for the championship as badly as even the fans! OldKU I agree: they got into a bad habit of just playing a little better than the opposing team. Next year tho!! Hopefully they got a good taste and that wont leave their thoughts too soon! RC!

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

jhwkfan162515 - Xavier shooting us out of the game? He was 3-6 and 2-4 from 3. Not sure how that is "shooting us out of the game". X played well I thought, better than any of our other perimeter players by a long shot. He rebounded with authority in a game where our bigs letting UNI grab offensive rebounds was extremely costly. As for Tyshawn, his jump shot is sub-par, but he only took open looks, with the exception of possibly one in the last couple of possessions. He had no turnovers and played better defense than Tyrel or Brady (or Sherron for that matter). I understand your frustrations, but you're being a little too harsh on those two, especially when there is plenty of blame to go around.

captku 9 years, 10 months ago

Tough day and upcoming tough week. Like others, I wonder also about getting the press started earlier, but no sour grapes here. As fans, we live to beat our chest while wearing KU gear after the big wins, and that makes us feel school pride. Now we suck it up and take it, which is the tough part of being a fan. Thank God it doesn't happen that often. Heart out to the team and coaching staff. And thanks for the fun times this season. Off to church ... to re-calibrate.

dchon 9 years, 10 months ago

After a loss at Stillwater, the Kansas Jayhawks hold a player-only meeting.

http://mindoversports.com/2008/04/06/kansas-university-basketball-team-holds-players-only-meeting-on-their-way-to-the-final-four-and-the-national-championship/

It happened in 2008. After that loss, you know the story. We never looked back and we won it all.

After this 2009-10 team's loss in Stillwater, I hoped and hoped our Jayhawks held a similar player-only meeting as well. But, ever since our loss to the Cowboys, we just didn't play with a team chemistry that indicated to the opponents who was boss. We didn't.

Who knows what could've transpired last night if our team held a similar player-only meeting after our loss in Stillwater. I don't know if it happened or not, but who knows?

dynamitehawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Sherron - Great career. Go make some Benjamins for your family.

I was pretty pissed off last night, but its cool now. I can't wait for Elijah Johnson. He is a freakish athlete. Does anyone remember this dunk at Kentucky (in high school)?

It is still great to be a Jayhawk. Have a great off season folks.

Jim Sanders 9 years, 10 months ago

One thing this game exposes is that no underclassmen should leave for the NBA. Cole and Xavier should both return for another year.

cre017 9 years, 10 months ago

The future is bright. Elijah, the Twins (who will be the best on the floor for KU), Releford, Little, Robinson, Withey, Reed, and maybe Ty and whatever else Self brings in, hopefully a swing man that will play d and not wait till the end of the season to bring it to the rack. KU football is around the corner and I can't wait. Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

hawksince51 9 years, 10 months ago

The Sports Illustrated Jinx lives on. In their College Basketball Preview magazine in Nov. 2009, SI picked KU Number 1 and had Sherron Collins on the Cover. So we lose to a 9 seed in the 2nd round and Collins' stats are awful: 4/15 shots; 0/6 3-pointers; 5 turnovers; 4 assists; 0 steals; and 10 points.

SI's top 10 were KU, Mich. St.; Villanova; Texas; Kentucky; Purdue; UNC; WVA; Washington; and UConn. Not many of those are still standing either.

But, I only blame the magazine for lousy predicting. KU lost the game all by themselves because Collins and all the other guards (starting and off the bench) played a very poor game against a tough, determined, fundamentally sound team. It is not true that a hot-shooting team beat us--they only shot 40% vs. our 44%.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

kik1958 - I disagree. We just remember our losses more, but for example, Duke lost in the 1st round in '07 and the second round in '08 (after barely escaping an opening round loss to #15 seed Belmont, on some questionable officiating). Carolina - well they're playing in the NIT this year, as they were in '03! Imagine not making the dance twice in the last 8 seasons! They lost in the 2nd round in '04. Kentucky missed the tournament last year, lost in the first round in '08, lost in the 2nd round in '07 (to KU), '06, and '04 (a year in which they were a #1 seed and lost to #9 seed UAB). Yes the early round exits are painful, but every school has them, and some even have trouble making the tournament from time to time.

superdave 9 years, 10 months ago

Ask yourselves this: Was this season (tournament) the norm or an anomoly? Which was 2008?

hawksince51 9 years, 10 months ago

kik1958;icthawkfan316 Without checking the facts, my gut tells me that KU has gone out earlier when we or they were highly seeded than any of the other programs. And, 1988 was the only time I recall where our results substantially exceeded our seeding.
Does that make me less of a fan?--NO. Does it frustrate the hell out of me--ABSOLUTELY.

Bill Shaw 9 years, 10 months ago

We didn't get the fires lit until the last few minutes. BS needs to figure out how to get the team to start with the fires lit and turn it into a bonfire.

Bill Shaw 9 years, 10 months ago

Reminds me of students who wait as long as possible before doing their homework.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

Unfortunately, I drove to and from OKC from the KC area yesterday for that fiasco. My mood is not one of humility. I have said this all year, only to be called "disloyal", etc. by those that drink the Kool-Aid and have "blind-faith".

Where are kvskuball, blownjay, babyjay1, jayhawkinmullen, ginger 2015, etc? The "it is right because coach Self says so", the "you're not a division I coach like coach Self", the "enjoy the ride" crowd?

Enjoying the ride now? How smart is coach Self now? And how dumb are all of us that sounded the alarms this season?

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

Again, I'm not in the mood for humility today. Many of saw this coming recently, and all year. And we continued to be forced to listen to the cheerleaders who ignored the obvious.

March 18: babyjay1: Relax. It's just frustration with playing down to our opponent. Fortunately, we tend to push the gas vs. the top teams we've played. But if we take UNI lightly ... March 14: Melrank: I hope you don't think UNI is a gimme. They'll smoke UNLV. March 13: anthonyzal: First, just reading Soobawls' comments in context with everything else he has said on this website. Next, don't question my loyalty to this university, or the team simply because I dare suggest a concern over their complacent play. That alone displays your complete ignorance (but that ignorance is prevalent among the cheerleaders around us). It is really silly to go into this tournament as a cheerleader. Been there too many times over the last 20+ years only to be disappointed. Faith has nothing to do with .. blind faith might. 30-2 isn't luck. I agree. But when you tread the line multiple times, walk on the edge over and over, the odds are against you. This team has continued to demonstrate a propensity for getting itself into bad spots against inferior teams (as well as the ability to get themselves out late .. and with just plain luck, see at Colorado, at KSU). However, it is one and done. One slip up and the whole season down the drain. This team has developed significant tendencies, and those were on full display over the past two games. It would be stupid, though to ignore the character of this team .. which is to fight back and do what needs to be done to win. I felt much more comfortable with the 08 team heading into the tournament. Maybe stats don't bear that out. But this team seems to make everything difficult and that tendency concerns me (and with that, I guess I am disloyal as a Jayhawk, "can't be counted on", and "un-Sherron" -- whatever that means. Ask anthonyzal for more brilliant commentary). March 13: I would say that this team is lazy, lacks focus, and is complacent .. at times. Then (another obvious point) they turn it on. This is a very dangerous characteristic heading into the tournament. You an count me among the surprised if they reach the Final Four. This type of team is ripe for the tournament upset beginning with the 1 vs. 8/9 game. It will be interesting to see if the team has a different focus come the NCAA tournament.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

(cont) March 11: Today's game was a microcosm of the season. This IS the 2009-2010 Kansas Jayhawks. I guess I really don't fear the games against Syracuse, or Kentucky, or any top 10. team. It is the next level, the Oklahoma St, Marquette, Louisville, Georgia Tech, BYU, Northern Iowa, Clemson, Wake Forest, etc. This team has demonstrated that they can ratchet it up when needed. It just seems that they continue to play a few notches below where they should. But they win and continue to win. 1 down, 8 to go. March 6: icthawkfan316: Not sure the point of the question. Talent-wise, I think we're the best team in the country along with Kentucky (talent-wise). On your other comments, I completely disagree, and completely agree. Agree - chance for letdown, Missouri having more to play for, etc. Disagree - This season has been marked by wild inconsistency and games where, frankly, we got lucky and won (see 1st KSU game, Colorado, and perhaps even Cornell, Texas A&M). More importantly, poor effort/execution. A loss doesn't expose a huge flaw .. that's already exposed. We do not exhibit the consistent offensive effort and execution to take care of teams that are inferior to us. What I'm looking at more is our approach .. the effort part. I saw that vs. KSU Wednesday. If we don't carry that over, my concern is that the inconsistency we have seen all season is simply etched in stone for this team. And it is that inconsistency that will spell doom in the NCAA tournament.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

hawksince51 - you're right. KU's assorted losses against Bradly, Bucknell, & UNI (not going far enough back checking out the other schools to include the Jayhawk's losses to Rhode Island & UTEP) are generally worse than those of the examples I pointed out (with the exception of the Kentucky loss to UAB, and maybe the Duke 2nd round loss, although many experts thought they were severly flawed that year). However, the results are the same. I suppose you could generalize it as saying KU either overperforms during the season or underperforms during the tournament, whereas in the case of the other schools they pretty much are what they are, both in the regular season and the tourney. I'll still take a great regular season, Big 12 Championships, beating our rivals, and atleast MAKING the NCAA tournament every year and being disappointed in the end as opposed to the floundering mediocrity the other schools have endured.

babyjay1 9 years, 10 months ago

HighEliteMajor, here I am, as I was last night and you stink big time... To Sherron, Marcus, Cole and the rest, thanks for such a fun year!!! I love being a Jayhawk - there is no better than KU and the Hawks!!! Bill Self continues to be the coach I love -doesn't mean he's perfect and I do not have "blind faith." I am also not stupid enough to think that just because you are ranked #1 means it's automatically yours. I am sad for the team as I'm sure all true Jayhawk fans are - it's got to be a horrible feeling. I do not have the talent to play any sport at any level (besides fun with my daughter) so I don't know how it feels when you're "off" and can't get your game going. Northern Iowa took us out of our game and unfortunately, it worked... and again, the refs SUCKED!!! Not an excuse, but a fact! So, LowEliteMajor, here I am!!! And I'll be here next year! Rock Chalk forever!!!!

mwilliam 9 years, 10 months ago

Too many of you are so negative it is unbelievable. I'm very frustrated at this point but I guarantee you my frustration and disappointment is nothing compared to that of the players and coaches. The team went through a season where they had two losses and they played some pretty good teams as is evidenced by where some of those teams are in the dance to date. Living in Texas I didn't get to see all of yesterday's game until I thought I might be able to pick it up on my laptop. What I saw was a team of players from UNI that was very focused, experienced and to be quite frank, damn lucky. I saw three point attempts that were guarded and falling and if not falling the rebound would somehow end up in their hands even though we had rebounding position; I saw a KU team that didn't get any breaks from the refs; and I saw a KU team that put up open shots that were not falling. Obviously not many of you have ever coached at any level or you would understand that there are occasions when you tell the players to do certain things and for whatever reason the best laid plans of mice and men... The team had a great year, which means that the fans have had a great year. No one associated with the program is happy about the early out, especially those of us who have paid for rooms with no refund: but think how SC feels, knowing that he does not have another chance to be the first to win two championships; that his career ended much earlier than he had hoped and that he knows he had one of the worst games of his career at a very pivotal (headed to St Louis with a possible chance for another nat'l ring) point in his career; what about HCBS, you think he is overjoyed with the way the team executed; think he is overjoyed with the way he coached, etc, etc. This was a hard loss to stomach but we had a great year, those games I saw I totally enjoyed (one being the great victory over Texas at Austin) and I wish only the best for the team and all the KU nation

jayhawkFOURever 9 years, 10 months ago

I fear this may be the beginning of the end. With most of our quality players likely to leave for the pros and consistently being unable to live up to expectations is certainly going to have a severe impact on recruiting. I see us at no better than the middle of the pack in the Big 12, and am really skeptical that we will event make it to the dance next year. Perhaps we can make it to to the NIT, and get past the initial rounds, quite clearly our beloved program is on the decline and descending in the "dark ages."

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 10 months ago

I feel bad for Collins...he had an off night and the rest of the team and coaching staff were in la-la land. Not the way I ever expected him to go out. I hope EVERY Jayhawk contemplating the NBA gets a good agent and moves on.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

babyjay1: Perhaps you can learn from your blind faith. Oh boy, what a fun year this was!! We are the number one team, final four, national championship!! Great Ride!! Oh, thanks coach Self!! You're wonderful!!

Give me a break. And notice that I only used two exclamation points, not three. Try this, drop the exclamation points.

It was obvious from your posts you never played competitive sports. Your attitude is one that comes from never playing the game, and never competing. And with that comes a complete inability to analyze the game. So you just enjoy the ride. Oh, and yes, blame it on the refs. Go bake some cookies or whatever makes you happy.

By the way, Northern Iowa did not take us out of our game, That WAS our game. It has been all year if you would just watch.

roxytime 9 years, 10 months ago

I'm sorry, but the poor sportsmanlike comments by the players in the locker room, throwing themselves to the floor after they lost, rather than holding their heads up high, walking over and congratulating the other team--was just embarrassing!!! I'm sick of everyone saying how they are the best, they are the best--well, as in any tournament--just because someone says you are the best, doesn't mean you don't have to show up and play the "best" against every team. You can't look past anyone--that swagger I saw them having on their way out of the tunnel before the game, told me they would lose. They were looking past this game and that team, and their egos caught up with them. I honestly think they deserved to lose that game--N. Iowa played very well, had some incredible plays and KU didn't--simple as that. Stop with excuses--we've seen lots of teams that were ranked very high in this tourney, go down in flames to supposedly way worse teams this year--lots of disappointment--but its embarrassing to see KU players showing so little class. Its like they felt they were just going to stroll in and receive their crown because everyone said they were the best and they'd win!! Time to stop with the excuses and feeling sorry for yourselves. Get over this sense of entitlement!! Geez. I was ashamed of them last night--I'm sorry. The cocky attitudes didn't win any fans last night!

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

Mwilliam: Nice post, and you say "Obviously not many of you have ever coached at any level or you would understand that there are occasions when you tell the players to do certain things and for whatever reason the best laid plans of mice and men..."

Agreed. But this has been the plan all year. Our style of play dictates this sort of game. That is coach Self's choice. I have coached all sports (baseball, basketball, and football) at the youth level, through ages 16, and a coach can change the character of a basketball team. You can't make the shots as the coach, of course. But you can have a system that inspires the maximization of the talent you have. Arguably we have the best talent in the nation. And we lose in round 2.

okiedave 9 years, 10 months ago

It was a good season. Thanks Hawks for the Big XII championship and lots of great games. Collins - Thanks for 4 years. Aldrich - thanks for your hard work. Thanks for all the players' hard work. For those coming back -- see you next year. RCJH

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

roxytime: You have hit on the basis for the character flaw of this team .. they played all year like a team that had a sense of entitlement. Collins was the "leader" in that regard.

Lance Hobson 9 years, 10 months ago

The bigger issue is one of heart and soul. This team was doomed the minute Brady Morningstar got a DUI after curfew during Boot Camp. That was our leadership. It didn't set the right example, and probably made Xavier feel just fine about caring more about himself and the NBA than KU basketball. Sherron is tough but he showed up out of shape again and doesn't play smart, He and TT looked like JR Giddens out there.. This team lacked leadership to give it the focus, the heart, that it needed to win when it counted.

This game did not come down to a couple of plays. UK won their second round game by 30 points. The overall No. 1 seed shouldn't have had any problem with a 9 seed that lost to Evansville.

Don Hortenstine 9 years, 10 months ago

They played one game for close to 40 minutes, at Temple. Could have won that game by 40, put it in cruise control and won by 25 (if memory serves).

kkoenig, thank's for the link, very good article.

I'm not buying the should have pressed earlier, they could have done several things earlier but pressing wasn't one of them. UNI handles the ball very well and they're well coached, it was effective for KU because it wasn't seen earlier. I could have easily broken the press for easy lay-ups.

Self has a winning formula, they can win at any tempo, just didn't execute. This reminded me a lot of the Davidson game in 2008, just different results.

Heart-broken by the loss but our Jayhawks had a great year, it didn't turn into the special year we were all hoping for. Oct. 15th here we come, Rock Chalk!!!

Hank Cross 9 years, 10 months ago

The people who say EJ and Releford are going to shine next year are dreaming. That's not going to happen b/c Self is going to play Brady and Tyrel. People who think Knight or player of that caliber are comig here are kidding themselves. Let's see, go to UK and run and be showcased, or go to KU and ride the bench behind Brady and Tyrel and wait to get in a game where KU is walking it up the court. Which would you choose?

Self is the problem and he should use this chance to leave. "But, but, but, He won a championship!" Yes, he did. And so did Steve Fisher and last we saw of him was on the SDSU sideline. Also, how much coaching talent is needed to win a Nat'l C. when you've got 6 NBAers on your team?

Face it - '08 was the exception. Bucknell, Bradley, UNI are the rule.

FairgroveJayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

HEM - when are you applying for an assistant position?

Hank Cross 9 years, 10 months ago

HighElite is absolutely right when he says it's the coach's choice on the style of play. And Self's style creates slow, clunky games where lesser opponents are able to hang around. Even if NI had been able to break the press a few times in the 1st half, had we kept running they would've been out of gas by the last 10 minutes of the 2nd.

JhawkHoopsCrzy 9 years, 10 months ago

More depressed by reading a few of these comments (couldn't stomach more than that) than by the loss. I'll take HCBS and the team any day over listening to a bunch of whining fans -- oh how I am tired of KU fans and their negativity. Where I watched the game yesterday, about 40 fans -- from the opening shot the loudest people were "OH NO, COME GUYS, YOU LOOK TERRIBLE, GET YOUR HEAD ON, AWFUL, ....." At the conclusion of the game, one person said "Great job Self, taking the best talent and losing."

So proud to be a Jayhawk -- except when around the negative vibes and naysayers that make up way too much of our fan base, and bring down our team precisely when we should be using our energy to lift them up.

It's a game, everyday someone loses. It's tough when it's our team, but to berate them and the program SAYS WAY MORE ABOUT THE PEOPLE MAKING THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS THAN IT EVER WILL ABOUT KANSAS BASKETBALL!

GROW UP!

Ron Franklin 9 years, 10 months ago

HighElite-Or any other person who has coached-

Why couldn't Self instill killer instinct? We knew, and talked about this all year long.

They played lazy, unmotivated basketball and expected to win instead of really earning it.

Is this not a trait that can be taught to a team? Why couln't they become hungry and passionate.

They hardly ever ran their assignments, nor passed the ball with heart & a sense of urgency.

kschoenhofer 9 years, 10 months ago

ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK GO KU was a good season and hopefully next year will turn out better

Brian Powell 9 years, 10 months ago

I didn't see the game, but I saw the box score.

I just have one question for all the donkey who are throwing Morningstar's name in the mix on this game -- why the F did he only play 8 minutes when Taylor was ice cold?

And dont' reply with some dumbass b - s about his t-shirt being too baggy.

Was he hurt? I only see two fouls in his box score..

Overall I'm so sick of choking. I don't buy this B S about this being what we needed to get that 'killer instinct' for next year. So we have to embarrass ourselves the year before we actually do anything in the postseason?? That's not a good program.

And F next year -- if I were Cole or X I'd probably go pro. Why stay? You saw what happened when the two guys stayed this year...

I'm off to cheer for the rest of the Big 12, and Wash.

See you next year,

Hank Cross 9 years, 10 months ago

Why should Self hold his head high? He's not some volunteer coach for a junior high team. He is a highly paid professional whose job it is to take the team as far as the talent will let him. He failed. Pure and simple. Just like he failed against Bucknell and Bradley. Sure, even UCLA has that loss to Princeton in the tourney, but Princeton was an exceptional team. UNI is going to be torn apart in the next round.

KEITHMILES05 9 years, 10 months ago

The last numerous games this team came out sluggish and appeared non-interested in playing. Why? What happened? Were there issues amongst themselves? Sadly, they have only themselves to be upset with.

With all the high emotion displayed at the end of the game if they could have used that and channeled it at the beginning and not dug a hole for themselves the result would likely have been different. Just because they felt they were the better team didn't mean squat. This team was never sufficiently challenged when they needed to be.

Hopefully, this will be a lesson learned by them. Just because the front of the jersey says Kansas doesn't win games. Playing like you want to win does.

Sherron? You are such a big time gamer. You are da man. I love you like a son. You did KU proud.

Funhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Great comments above from JhawkHoopsCrzy. And, maybe next time HCBS plays a slow-down team, he will start a full court press earlier in the game. Regardless, it was another fun season to be a Jayhawk!! Our guys are still the best to those of us who aren't always negative.

Ron Franklin 9 years, 10 months ago

I cant believe how many people are calling for Selfs head.

His winning percentage is 83%. He's coached them to 6 straight league titles.

He turns boys to men, if they are willing to learn & grown.

All he does is win and represents this University so well.

I am proud to be a Kansas Jayhawk.

The NCAA tournament championship IS NOT the ultimate indicator of a successful season.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

BlownJay: Obviously you are right. But where does the buck stop? Self chose his players, the same players that exhibited the characteristics you point out. And he couldn't coach effort. That is his job. I will say, Reed busted his a**, to the extent his talent would allow.

Denny2009 9 years, 10 months ago

Bill Self is a bad gametime coach there I said it. You can recruit all you want but if you can't get the boys ready for games than your not doing your job. How many games this season did you see the Jayhawks play a spirited full 40 minutes? How many games did they just go for the throat and play like a reflection of the best team in the country? Very Seldom..and thats a reflection on coaching. Yesterday was pathetic and embarrasing. A Big 12 title, a great season record, sure all of those are great, but throw all of those things out the window when NCAA Tourney time comes. The NCAA tourney is the second season of the year the MEANINGFULL Season. Throw records and rankings away during tournament time, teams win off heart and hustle. And we possessed none of those this enitire season. I can't wait till next year, but this loss is gonna stick with me for a while.

I know there isn't a lot of hockey fans in Kansas, but if you watch the NHL playoffs this year, specifically the conf championship games (Eastern and Western Conf) you'll notice when teams are presented the trophy for winning their conf they dont even touch it, they dont acknowlege it, they dont observe it, they dont consider it an accomplishment, becuase they want the ultimate award the STANLEY CUP. Everyone mentions the Jayhawks regular season accomplishments like it makes up for this loss, it doesn't, final four berths do.

jchief40 9 years, 10 months ago

Henry isn't a one and done. A one and done takes over games. Wall, Durant, Rose, Beasley. Sorry Xavier, you've got so much potential. But you didn't get there this season. Don't leave before you are ready (cough, J. Wright). Players that are ready play like the players I just described. Thanks for a great season. See you next year.

p.s. I really am hoping for Selby. Taylor just doesn't have the shot to deserve a starting spot on this team. EJ will nail down more threes than him - Selby can shoot. Henry can shoot.

Henry, Selby, Johnson. Best guard combos in the country next year.

Chieflington 9 years, 10 months ago

What was Reed thinking...........................

NH_JHawk 9 years, 10 months ago

I attribute most of the negativity on this board today with the pain of a monumental loss. I was definitely pissed off last night and frankly I really don't feel much better today either. Regardless, there are lots of people on this board who are consistently negative (H.E.M., Soobawls, Theutus, etc) and to be honest I'm fine with it even though I don't see it their way. Everybody has a right to express their opinion in whatever manner they see fit. Personally, I'm an optimist about most things and I think life is hard enough without having to view things thru a negative lens.

Tough loss, great season, and unfortunately it will be remembered by most as a great team that pretty much choked. Gonna be an excrutiatingly long wait till Late Night. Hopefully Cole and X return. We'll miss you, Sherron. Thanks again to everyone on this site that makes it the most interesting place to be on the Internet. Rock Chalk Jayhawk forever!!

GreyHawker 9 years, 10 months ago

HEM and Oxcal... nice posts......and yes they'll react the way they have all year.....you're a rotten fan, but the truth is painful for most of these. My take is pretty simple...players taking to much heat and Self not NEAR enough. He's in over his head....horrible in game coach.....his Eddie Sutton walkit up the court style is ancient....and recruits will begin to move away from it. Great guy....great recruiter....great record....blah blah blah....He can thank being at KU for that....put him back at any other university and he wouldn't be .500. On the other hand, Turg has been at these other univ. and has done quite well. Self has started the "Walk of the Mangino".........can't wait for it to be completed......

Denny2009 9 years, 10 months ago

jhawkfan162515, I can think of a coach that can instill the killer instinct and make it stick, Frank Martin. Sure they got beat 3 times this year, but I wouldn't be suprised if this coach takes them deep into the tourney. Losing isn't an option for that guy, especially when there is no tomorrow.

fan4ever 9 years, 10 months ago

I've watched KU for more years than most of the commentators on this post. I've seen some crushing losses and some great wins.

This was an extremely hard loss, but if this is the worst thing that ever happens to KU basketball, we are still the best and one of the elite programs in the nation and those players will have learned something that will benefit them in the future (even if they don't believe so today).

Sh.t happens!!!! I know everyone is looking for an explanation and reasons to assign blame, but get over it - it was a wonderful season. Sh.t happens!!!!

babyjay1 9 years, 10 months ago

I will continue to stay with all Jayhawk fans who believe that we have an awesome coach and love watching my Hawks. MajorElite (whatever that means) can throw back barbs at me all you want - bake cookies - hey, thats' good!!!!! Oh, and look at all those exclamation points... Why is it that the "fans" who are SO negative and critical - all the time, cannot stand that some of us love our Hawks and support them no matter what. Hey, guess what, I called for Mangino's head - guess that makes me soft, cuz you know, he was just a tough coach, nothing wrong there. I hear enough crap from Mizzery fans, Nebraska fans, etc... why are KU fans beating up on each other? It's completely stupid. Rock Chalk forever!

ksudairyman 9 years, 10 months ago

well at least one kansas team won yesterday... EMAW!

Ron Franklin 9 years, 10 months ago

Jhwkfan- I don't think winning can ever be detrimental. It was apparently their attitudes they got from winning that skinned them in the end.

I would have thought coming out sluggish against Lehigh would have been all Self needed to "juice" these guys up. Apparently he didn't, or they just didn't listen.

MAYBE they were tired? I've started thinking the last 6 games or so that they have all been tired. Cole definitely started reverting back to his early-season sickness. Or at least it seemed that way to me.

If they would have bowed out early in the conference tournament, there would be more trolls on here calling for crucifiction & castigation anyway.

A PSYCHOLOGICAL PHENOMENON that I'm noticing is that people think advancing further in the tournament adds significance to the season. To me, it's all the same if you lose game one, or lose game five or six you still ARE NOT the champion. So, why does it matter what round of the tournament you lose in.

Again, people are biased based on the seeding numbers that teams are titled with, instead of truly understanding a teams worth and greatness. MVC has never gotten the credit they deserve. So, when a 9 beats a 1 the uneducated, people with low basketball IQ automatically ASSUME that the 9 shouldn't win the game. If folks knew how well UNI played all season long, this game did not come as a surprise.

jchief40 9 years, 10 months ago

Self is one of the best coaches in college basketball. Period. End of story.

Rock Chalk.

Kansas players just didn't have the killer instinct this year. Had Northern Iowa's jerseys been changed to Kansas State then we would have been ready from tip off. We always did that this year. Too bad.

bradynsdad 9 years, 10 months ago

wow to everyone who has nothing but hartred comments if you dont like the way self coaches or his players play stop watching. its as simple as that. congrats to all the players on the season i got to watch 33 fun victories. some of you take foregranted how hard it is to win, imagine having a season like unc did this year, then maybe you will appreciate our amazing program.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

I don't want Self fired. I want him to be flexible, to learn from his failures. The problem is, he doesn't. I'm sure today he thinks he did the right thing with this team.

trueblue9 9 years, 10 months ago

Bill Self is one desparation 3 from Davidson as being regarded as the biggest joke in the coaching profession. I'm willing to overlook the fact that Davidson missed.

babyjay1 9 years, 10 months ago

Thank you to fans like above - jchief40 and bradynsdad :) We do have an amazing program. And I agree - if you don't like the Hawks, become a Mizzery or Husker fan. THANK YOU to all the coaches and players! I love basketball season, the NCAA Tournament is the best sporting event ever and Bill Self is the best coach. Period. Rock Chalk forever!

minnhawk84 9 years, 10 months ago

  1. KU taught me never to get so emotionally involved in a silly game that it ruined my day, week, or overall psyche. I learned that when a 34-0 KU team lost to Arizona in '97. Too many "emotional junkies" find their fix with sports, whether it be the Jayhawks or the Minnesota Vikings or ____ (insert your favorite team here). I am a die-hard KU fan, but not to the point that it affects me for more than an hour that they won or lost. Many of you need to get some emotional maturity -- your posts reflect that need.

  2. HCBS is an outstanding coach, period. He learned a lot from this team this year. He will make corrections to his own coaching philosophy, and the Jayhawks will continue to do extremely well as long as he decides to coach in Lawrence.

  3. If the NBA is slobbering over "X" then he should go for it. I don't see it, but then I am not an NBA scout. He is no where near ready for the big time, but don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way outta Lawrence. Same thing for Cole. Again, I think another year to develop some kind of fire consistently would propel Cole from a utility big man in the NBA to possibly being a great one.

  4. I have also learned to be very humble about being a KU fan in my workplace and social life. Those of you dreading going to work tomorrow, well it is payback time for all of the chest-thumping you did all season. I know for many that smack talk around the cooler is a big part of your life, and it sure was fun for you to rub KSU fan's noses in three victories (or Misery's), but it now time to pay the piper. If you don't like getting your nose rubbed in the crap, try not doing it to others.

  5. I am looking forward to next year's edition of the basketball Jayhawks. I don't really care what next great saviour (rhymes with Xavier) comes to Lawrence to carry the Jayhawks to the promised land. No freshman is going to come in and dominate a Kansas program. Wall at UK is a freak and an exception and I would not be happy to have had him at KU - he is not what I think of as a Jayhawk bb player.

  6. Sorry, I don't think our talent level this year was as good as many KU teams of the past. Heart is a part of one's talents.

  7. Have you all figured out National Championships are very, very hard to come by? Talent alone won't get you there......

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

bradynsdad: And why don't you go pick daisies in a field. The criticism/analysis isn't "hatred" (that's a polarizing word and a typical way to try diminish someone who offers criticism). You have no point. Oh, and "stop watching" .. you are brilliant. Yes, I'll take a 16-16 season in 2010-11 like NC had this year IF we had won the title this year, like NC did last year. You enjoy the 33 wins .. that, and quarter, might get you a cup of coffee.

Clarence Haynes 9 years, 10 months ago

Cole and X....Take out an insurance policy and come back for one more year as this would make a great 2010-2011 team even more superior!

wilmaxhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Minnhawk84 you mean like the adjustments he made after the only two first round losses in KU history (Bradley, Bucknell) Where is all the bashing about crying. My god if Roy was to cry 1000 folks would be on here making fun of him, but it's ok for this bunch huh.

FreddyinLA 9 years, 10 months ago

Memo to Self, the head coach at KU is responsible for winning conference championships and 6 games in March. You decided in January to only play 8 guys and slow the game down. Fast forward to the second half of yesterday's game and we're pressing full court???? Our advantage was our deep bench until you decided not to develope it in conference play.

John Wooden has 10 rings. He ran a full curt press that was deadly. Ours looked like 6 year olds playing soccer. Guys out of position all over the place. UNI (congrats) had open looks all day. Questions, how many games did we play this style of ball? Not once.

Let me put this in golf terms. You go to the range for 3 months and hit nothing but high fades. Your down 3 at the turn and make the decision to now hit low hooks?? Stick with what got you there.

Didn't UNI play our style of ball??

Oh well guess I can enjoy the next two weeks.

Have fun at the next big event for KU basketball, the Bill Self Foundation Sock-Hop. I know, I know, it's for the kids.

Hay T-Boone, do the right thing and steal "The Rug" out from underneath us. Pun intended.

Sandiegoku 9 years, 10 months ago

Tournment championships and a great record mean squat! Your are defined by your post season! Period. Look where Kstate is now! Who cares if we beat em 3 times. Have you seen their coach?! You see how he coaches? With URGENCY & INTENSITY! And look how the players respond. Look at Calipari? He coaches the same way. They instill such a fear about losing and being embarrased that they play hard!
This was a humiliating loss to the KU program. Cole has some great foot work, hell the guy could prolly line dance like all get out, but he can't finish near the basket! X was too timid, Sherron played very bad. Yeah I know there is always next year, but I am starting to realize that it's very very hard to win 6 games in a row. How the hell did Florida do it two year in a row? That S is mind-bottling!

jchief40 9 years, 10 months ago

FreddyinLA you are a thank-less prick.

nicholasu 9 years, 10 months ago

Bill Self was out coached, End of story

jchief40 9 years, 10 months ago

Did you mean mind boggling, Sandiegoku? Your thought processes mesh about as well as your grammar.

jchief40 9 years, 10 months ago

nicholasu - out coached? Is that what happens every time a team loses? No it's called players missed shots. Get over it.

kufan1472 9 years, 10 months ago

it stings to see a team that like northern iowa to come out and start draining three pointers all over us. But hey i have a pretty good feeling X will be coming back and who knows maybe aldrich and if we get a guy like brandon knight or josh selby we could be back to a championship caliber team

Hank Cross 9 years, 10 months ago

FreddyinLA- Exactly right. Instead of developing athletic talents like EJ in January, Self was givng minutes to his precious Brady Morningstar, a "lock-down defender" who is so awesome he couldn't be trusted to stop 5'9" 190 lb. Ali F. or that athletic wonder Keiton Page.

BTW-That intro video at Allen is awesome, but if I were an opposing coach and was worried my team might be intimidated by it all, I'd remind them about NI.

kellyrojo78 9 years, 10 months ago

It was a fun year. Thanks to the boys moving on for all the blood sweat and tears......KU seems to always find a way to break me heart in MARCH. Next year I guess

jayhawkjoe98 9 years, 10 months ago

People forget how difficult it is to win a national championship, or even just to make a final four.

This is the beast that is the NCAA tournament. All it takes is one hot team and one off night to cause an otherwise highly successful season to crash and burn and leave fans calling for heads.

oreadhawk99 9 years, 10 months ago

Does anyone remember the Roy Williams era? We played a "run and gun" fast break offense his entire career here, and fielded plenty of teams with exceptional talent and never won a championship with that style of play either. To say that Bill Self is a horrible coach is just ridiculous!

A coach can prepare his team for a game until he's blue in the face, call the perfect plays, etc., but it comes down to players executing, period! A coach can not instill "fire" in a player. It's like motivation, it comes from within oneself.

Let me ask all the people who are calling for Bill Self's head, who do you think would be a better coach at KU? Who? You want coach Cal, a guy that can't run an ethical program?

If the year doesn't end the way we would have liked, many KU fans say we need to scrap everything and start from scratch, clean house. That's ridiculous.

Bottom line is, you can have a great coach, the most talented players in the world, an "easy" path to a championship and it still has to be a "perfect storm" to make a championship a realization. If this game were so predictable, it wouldn't be the game we love so much.

I don't question most people's loyalty to KU basketball because they say tough things that are hard to swallow, but I disagree with everyone who says Bill Self is a bad coach.

eway12 9 years, 10 months ago

I only read through a few of the comments because I couldn't stand all the negative, critical comments pointed at these outstanding players. Yes, they under-achieved in the tournament and yes, there was inconsistent play all year long which made this team vulnerable to a team like Northern Iowa that knows how to control a game. Northern Iowa is going to be in almost every single game they play because of the way they control the tempo. We all knew (or those that knew anything about UNI) that we were going to have a very hard time pushing them off their game. We did it for a a couple minutes in the 2nd half. If they are hitting shots they are tough to beat regardless of who they are playing. Give some credit to UNI. Up until January of 2010 I was not a big fan of Sherron Collins. After playing point guard myself in college I had an idea what a guard leader should be like, and now I have a different idea. Maybe Collins' brash, "streets-of-Chicago" approach to the game lost us this one, but I'm pretty sure there were many other more important factors. The fact is, you don't dominate a talented, physical big 12 conference of 2010 without a guard like Sherron. I know the NCAA tournament is the big deal in this sport and it is a big deal, but conference season and conference tournament were fun to watch and Sherron always found a way to make this team a winner. I'm proud of the guys. I'm proud of the way Sherron developed as a player. I wonder if he got tired and worn down from taking a beating all year long because of the way he throws himself out there, but I hope he doesn't have any regrets because I'm proud of what he's done here at Kansas.

Another note, this team couldn't press with Cole, that one of the major reasons for not pressing consistently. Were a pretty good defensive team and really good defensively with Cole in the middle. It's hard to give up a defensive game-changer like Cole for a risky press. Not saying it should never be done, just saying that's part of the reasoning.

eway12 9 years, 10 months ago

Also, on the subject of Cole, I think he should go get the money unless he just can't stand the thought of never playing KU ball again (which may be the case). His family needs the money and he's almost completed his degree if I'm not mistaken. Also, while I'd love to have Cole back to play. This team gets very interesting without him. All of sudden, we have one of the most athletic teams you may ever see in college basketball. Can you find me a team with more athleticism than, Marcus, Markieff, Elijah, Tyshawn, Tyrel (it's there people, just cause he's white doesn't mean it's not there), Robinson, Mario and Travis. Throw in WIthey to bang with the Egleseder's we run into and Brady for some veteran knowledge and defensive leadership and I like that team. I believe Tyshawn will be a really good team player next year, and I did not like him on the court at all most of this year. The reason is he was shackled by a system of play revolving around Cole and Sherron with spot of 3 point shooters in X and Tyrel. The thing I really like about Self is how he adapts his system to the players. Next year we might see those 100 points games that a previous comments longed for (why would you want Roy ball back when we have a much better coach in Self who knows how to use his players?). I'm angry and disappointed over the loss, but with Self at the helm I am already excited for next year. I think we'll Tyshawn to Elijah ally-oops. I think we'll Robinson develop into a more athletic kieff. I think we'll many times see a team of 5 players who can run the floor and at any point blow by their oppenent dunk over anybody who gets in their way. Could be fun...

Denny2009 9 years, 10 months ago

@JChief40@bradysndad To everyone wigging out calling us bad fans for expressing some critizism, thats the sporting world, sorry. Some of you KC sports fans must be a little soft, I mean the Kansas City Rurals and Chiefs are bunnies of their respective leagues, you all must be to used to getting embarrased. @FreddyinLA Couldnt have said it any better

babyjay1 9 years, 10 months ago

No, expressing some criticism is one thing - the complete meltdown because we lost is ridiculous. Calling for Bill Self's job, calling out players that have been awesome and now suddenly, they stink... Actually, KC sports fans aren't soft at all - pretty tough all around. I listen to enough sports radio to know that KC fans expect more. That said, calling out college kids the same way you would a pro player is stupid. Pros are PAID to be good at what they do and put forth complete effort every game - that's all they do every day. These kids are going to classes and playing ball at an awesome level. I'd love to see some you "fans" demonstrate the ability to do that! Love my Hawks - Rock Chalk!!!!

FreddyinLA 9 years, 10 months ago

I need to follow up on what Roxytime said about the way our kids handled themselves after the game. Unacceptable yes, but again it comes back to their leader teaching them how to handle these situations, and again he failed. You told us only one team will end the season on a happy note, so prepare your team for what has a high probability of occuring.

docileboy 9 years, 10 months ago

Boy! You talk about fair weather fans, the Kansas Jayhawks have their share. There is no need to blame the coach, or some jinx, it happens, you don't win every game. I'm proud of the players on this team, they could have given up when 13 down, but didn't.

Looking forward to next season, when maybe the "fan's" expectations won't be so high.

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

Congratulations to all our players on a great year and great accomplishments. You've brought all KU fans great joy and happiness this year. Thanks for all the excitement all year long.

Anyone on this board who blames this loss on any player is a basketball ignoramus. These players all played extraordinarily well in the "system" they are forced into.

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

Surprise Surprise, Bill Self got outcoached in the tournament AGAIN. Someone please come and take this "Not Ready For Prime Time" coach and his stupid 1950's "Okie Ball" system off our hands. Where's T. Boone Pickens when you need him?

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

Unfortunately, Bill Self is in over his head. This makes the 6th time in 7 that he's been outcoached in the tournament. 5 of those by inferior teams. And the 3rd time, shockingly outcoached. This is not a fluke. Sadly, this has become "the norm." When you go in with far superior talent, a roster full of potential NBA talent, and lose to a team with NO NBAers, that's coaching. All season long, we've been watching this coach NOT take advantage of superior talent. Playing a slow down halfcourt game, never running. Playing down to the other team's speed level. Hey Bill, I hope you watched Kentucky today. That's how you play when you have better athletes.

For any of you "Okie Ball" fans out there, take note--Okie Ball hasn't won a tournament in 20 years. Eddie Sutton never won a tourney. This is the 21st century and it's a different game w/ different players now. We won in 08 b/c we had far superior talent and the other team & coach choked.

Unfortunately, "the norm" for Kansas under Bill Self now is to get bounced out of the tourney early by an inferior team. When people think of Kansas, they won't think of Mario's shot. They'll think, "Underachievers--early exit." Thanks Bill.

PamB700 9 years, 10 months ago

Disappointing to see this team's lack of effort. If they had played hard for the first 3/4 of the game, I doubt it would have even been close. Re Sherron, although I'm sure he tried his best, it seems to me that a real leader recognizes when he is having an off day and finds the guy who is hot and makes him look good. Also, I noted that when the 'Hawks began moving their offense "side to side", the announcers remarked that this was a much better way of attacking the Northern Iowa defense and created mis-matches to the 'Hawks' benefit. It appears that they were correct. Did Self not figure this out soon enough, or did our guys just not listen and execute?

I have to agree with the posts about Henry and Aldrich. They don't look ready to move on yet. Was Aldrich sick a lot this year? He seemed to tire easily and was frequently not very aggressive.

Such a sad ending. Could have easily been different. Maybe K-State will keep going. I think I will pull for them. I live in Missouri and just can't bring myself to root for Mizzou. I take too much grief from those people as it is.

oreadhawk99 9 years, 10 months ago

Yeah, KULA, because players don't have to go out and execute. They just need to have the best coach with the "best" style of ball to win. Get real!

Mike Kendall 9 years, 10 months ago

My heart goes out to Sherron. Sherron, you leave us with some good memories! Good luck with your future. Rock Chalk forever!

Steve Brown 9 years, 10 months ago

Re Sherron, although I'm sure he tried his best, it seems to me that a real leader recognizes when he is having an off day and finds the guy who is hot and makes him look good. Thanks PAM spot on.

Sherron was 10 pts on 21 attempts. Give just a few of those attempts to X, Marcus, Cole and we are still playing in St. Louis. This year we rarely beat the expectations (vegas spread) and to do so, takes huge amount of trust among the team. Next year we will be lower ranked and play better. much better.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

Greyhawker - that is maybe the most ignorant comment I have ever heard. "put him back at any other university and he wouldn't be .500". Um, well let's see - Four seasons at Oral Roberts: 56-53. Three years at Tulsa: 74-27, best ever for a 3 year span at that University. Three years at Illinois: 78-24, best ever for a three year span at the time. Would you care to revise that statement at all?

For all of you other haters, how many titles did Roy Williams win us? Wasn't it his job to win National Championships here as well? I'm waiting to hear suggestions on who we should hire from the crowd who suddenly think HCBS can't coach at this level. Seriously, give me some names of coaches who would come here. Give me some names of coaches who have won more championships than Bill Self. I can name 3. Mike Krzyzewski. He won't leave Duke. Roy Williams. He was here and didn't win anything, and won't be coming back, and I don't want him to. And Billy Donovan, who in my opinion lucked out on one phenomenal recruiting class and since has been to two NITs and had a first round exit in this year's tournament. And the suggestion to hire Mark Turgeon? Wow. I like Turgeon but he never won the Missouri Valley while he was at Wichita State, and has been living off of the success of Billy Gillespie's recruits at A&M. And if you don't like Bill Self's style of play because it's too slow, you'd hate Turgeon's.

Denny2009 9 years, 10 months ago

Hey I'm not ragging on any players. I'm raggin on one of the highest paid coaches in collegiate sports. You look at a guy like Billy Donovan he gets the job done, back to back titles, he deserves the money. Not so much a coach that has failed to get his team through the first weekend, 3 of the last 7 years. Look at Kentucky and Cuse right now, just taking care of biz. Your a #1 seed for a reason, you gotta motivate these guys, cause unfortunatly todays youth just doesn't care

Steve Brown 9 years, 10 months ago

I forgot:

RCJHKU.

go Big 12. 'cept. MU.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

HighEliteMajor - your statement "Yes, I'll take a 16-16 season in 2010-11 like NC had this year IF we had won the title this year, like NC did last year" is fairly illogical. First of all you're trying to compare year two post-championship for us with...UNC winning a championship the year after making it to the Final Four. UNC won the title last year because everybody came back, because they lost to us in '08. Maybe we could have won it last year had Chalmers, Arthur, & Rush returned. Let's see how the tar heels fair next year, which is year two post-championship for them.

Or looking at it another way, you're solely basing the two school's success on the last two years, and nullifying the '08 championship. Extrapolate that out another year. Basically, we won a title, went on to win the Big 12 again and advanced to the sweet 16, won the Big 12 again and lost in the 2nd round this year. North Carolina went to the Final Four, the following year won the ACC regular season, lost in their conference tournament, and won a National Championship, and followed it up by going 16-16 and missed the tournament. So really the question is what would you rather have from the non-championship years? An additional Final Four but no title and a year of missing the tournament all together, or 2 tournament years one where you exceded your expectations and one where you failed to meet them?

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

wow. this loss is still killing me this morning but i find it interesting how differently everyone is feeling on here. we had a GREAT season but this team was very rarely EASY to watch this year because they played inconsistently and without intensity so many times YET they usually found a way to win. when they played temple, i felt like they were truly proving they were #1 and maybe that WAS one of the few games that they pretty much played a full 40 minutes or close. last nite was a KILLER! it hurt very badly as a fan but it hurt more knowing how much the team was hurting. yet, did they come out acting like they REALLY WANTED to win? no, and i don't get that at all. not one player stood out and no one had a great game. if marcus's couple early shots would have fallen in instead of going clear in the cylinder and still coming out, maybe that would have changed the momentum early. what if they would have called blocking fouls instead of charging fouls on tyrel? he could easily have sunk 4 FT and what a difference that would have made. he probably should not have put himself in that position but still- were they really charges? should we have pressed more or earlier? maybe. BUT...... we had WIDE open 3s and they would NOT go down...... uni had 3s with people in their faces and they still went in. the refs were NOT good and we could NEVER get a break and uni did. are all those things the coach's fault?? no, the team just flat didn't do what they needed to...... just a couple 3s by sherron and tyshawn and the entire complexion of the game changes but they were NOT meant to be, i guess. was uni a true #9 seed? i don't think so but we were the best team, probably still overall when we play up to par, but last nite, we were NOT the better team of the 2 and on any given nite, any team can win if everything goes their way and the better team has no hot hands, no breaks, no intensity. we had a great chance for a miracle comeback and came oh so close then ali had to ruin any hope with another 3 that he never should have attempted..... wow.... that was sickening. yes, i'm still disgusted that EJ wasn't playing in january and prepared to come in and help on games like this and i don't understand why brady didn't play more last nite and why tyrel maybe played MORE than usual..... yes, he's great with the 3 ball but not when they are all over him. i loved this team and i love being a jayhawk and i think HCBS is a great coach. did he get outcoached last nite? probably to some degree but the players didn't PLAY BALL either and when that happens, bad things CAN happen to the better team and that was proven big time. it hurts badly and it will for a long long time. i'm cheering for every upset out there now except maybe baylor and a&m.! this was OUR year and it slipped away........... GREAT GREAT season with the big 12 title and tourney and 5 wins over ksu and mu but right now there's only one ugly memory taking over........

FreddyinLA 9 years, 10 months ago

KULA is exactly right. This guy was a Davidson missed 3 in Detroit from being in an unemployment line tomorrow.

Aligned 9 years, 10 months ago

These players and coaches have made an emotional investment on a level that most contributors to this board will never understand. Most of these complaining fans have contributed nothing more than a few hours of their time, while sitting on their ass, and a whole lot of bitching. They lost three games this year. If that’s not good enough for you, then you need to be looking for another team to get behind.

Steve Brown 9 years, 10 months ago

I don't recall what we are paying HCBS and I don't care as it is not enough, he is a bargain and worth more.

We've been very fortunate in the coaches we've had here the last many decades and this one continues the fine tradition. I'm not only happy with BS as our coach I'm pleased with the ones we didn't have, Quin, Cal, Tark, Kirk, etc.

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

oread--execute WHAT? Can someone on this board explain to me how this "offense" gets a basket? If the players don't execute all year long, whose fault is that? I've heard nothing but excuses all year long why this team hasn't performed well. First game jitters, early start time, OSU's senior night, CU's altitude, Tenn. fired up b/c of suspensions. Always an excuse why this team is not prepared to play. NIU was prepared for us. Bill Self's team was not prepared. They weren't prepared for Bradley, they weren't prepared for Bucknell, and they weren't prepared for NIU. Thanks Bill, for cementing our rep for underachieving in the tounament. Just another monkey on the back for next year. Btw, I can't imagine ANY blue chip point guard looking at this system and wanting to come play here.

bradynsdad 9 years, 10 months ago

highelitemajor you really need to relax. tryin to use big words doesnt make you sound any smarter, and why is is you can bad mouth the coaches and the players but when someone says something about you you have to go off the deep end about it. stop being a baby. i lost a title because the opposing team got fouled with no time left, the one thing i was told and learned that day was if you cant accept losing you will never know how to win. this isnt the nfl or the nba, we have over three hundred teams to fight for a title. stop complaining and move on!

babyjay1 9 years, 10 months ago

WOW - lovemyhawks - wish I could have put it all together they way you just did. Awesome post! So true! Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

oreadhawk99 9 years, 10 months ago

KULA - You've got all the answers and the perfect game plan. Why don't you put a suit on, take a seat on the bench courtside, and KU nation will all get behind you.

Ron_Kellogg 9 years, 10 months ago

Sherron, we appreciate everything you have done for this team, but you are wrong. This team is not the best in the nation. It only believed it was, and slacked off accordingly.

Now, even my meager expectations for this team, announced here on 1/12/10, are unmet:

"This is by no means a lost season. I still think this team has the ability to reach the sweet sixteen, maybe even the elite eight. Preseason expectations beyond that, however, were never realistic."

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

icthawkfan316: I feel like Aflac duck reading your comments. My point was straighforward. I would take a 16-16 season, like Carolina, for a title this year. You post makes absolutely no sense.

Mike Barnhart 9 years, 10 months ago

I wonder if our boys caved in to the pressure of playing for Kansas, in front of thousands of rabid but nervous fans and being everybody's pick to win it all. It sure sounds like the perfect antidote for loose and free.

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

oreadhawk99, thanks for answering my question about how this system gets a bucket.

FairgroveJayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

The aftermath of a loss. March Madness

The ability to upset a giant. March Madness

The feeling of illness after losing in the second round. March Madness

The ability of one game to turn a percentage of the fan base against the players and coaching staff. March Madness

The ability of one game to allow people to call out and disregard the players, the people that actually PLAYED the game, are feeling. March Madness

We get another season, and another, and another, and another.....

Anyone who has played or coached sports with a goal of being a "champion" and missed that goal that so many were seeking, knows that loss intensely. Now compound that feeling by at least 10, unless you played or coached competitive sports for an elite program such as KU Basketball (I guessing not one here has). They will feel this loss for years. Hopefully they will recognize one game doesn't make a season or define the contributions they have made.

Thank you Jayhawks for the season.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

KULA: Aren't you the big Tyshawn apologist? What are your thoughts on that now that he was benched for most of crunch time last night?

oreadhawk99 9 years, 10 months ago

KULA - Apparently they've made enough baskets to win 33 games this year. How else should I answer that question?

jaybate 9 years, 10 months ago

"Note: Posting this response forward to make sure it is seen by KULA"

Dear KULA,

I do not think Cal is crooked in a legal sense yet; that is a judgment for those tasked to make that judgment with sufficient evidence. If I have left any other impression, it was a mistake on my part, not intended and I apologize to you and anyone else I mislead.

I do wonder about how he lands so many highly recruited athletes, because of his offense, when it is an offense only a minority of pro teams use, and one that has never won an NCAA ring. I don't know if it has won an NBA ring.

And I do think: where ever Cal has been a head coach in college and left, then NCAA infractions and/or near full season forfeits followed. Prove me wrong and I will change my tune.

I have read rumors of SAT related improprieties happening at UK somewhat similar to what happened at Memphis regarding SAT improprieties. Prove these wrong and I will be among the first to acknowledge your accomplishment.

I have read rumors in and out of mainstream media that Cal is putting together a package to go to an NBA franchise during the first year he is at UCon. Prove these wrong and I will again be among the first to acknowledge such.

Now, let me address your apparent assessment that Bill Self is just not a very good coach.

You are not alone in this regard, but you and those of like mind appear to be in somewhat of a minority. Still, a minority opinion can be perfectly right, if what it espouses were in fact the truth. So: let's look for the truth in what you espouse, shall we?

KU has won 82% of its games under Self.

KU has won a national championship only 3 seasons ago.

KU won 26 games and reached a Sweet 16 in a rebuilding year 2 seasons ago under Self.

This past season, KU went 33-3 and won conference and conference tourney championships, but was upset early in the Madness this past season.

I have looked high and low in your argument and found no refutation of these facts, which constitute the preponderance of the evidence at hand.

jaybate 9 years, 10 months ago

What I see in your argument is a reliance on exceptions to make your case. He blew this game, or that game. This does not sway me. Every other coach at every other school during the same period of Self's KU tenure has blown this game, or that game, and, in fact, only one or two have done slightly better regarding the preponderance of the evidence.

Roy has won two rings, for example, but then Roy had a .500 season that Self did not have, and Roy is much farther along the learning curve of coaching.

Calipari may have won a few more games overall, but then Cal has not won a ring and and his school had to forfeit one or more of his seasons for playing players that did not take their own SATs.

Ben Howland got to the Final Four 3-4 straight times, but then Ben never won it and now Ben has just had a much worse season than Self has had.

If I understand you correctly, KULA, you:

a) prefer John Calipari, who has never won a ring and left a wake of infractions at two schools and may be trying to jump to the NBA in his first season at Contucky;

b) prefer Cal's Princeton on Roids offense, which has never won a ring, to Self's which has; and

c) consider Cal's prior program's infractions and his program's forfeits to not prevent you from preferring Cal.

I realize you and others are very disappointed about KU being upset by Northern Iowa, but it still seems a rather stark departure from your senses and from reality to hold these preferences. Your response just does not seem to follow logically from the facts. It seems much more an emotional outburst.

Perhaps you could clarify your thoughts and be vastly more persuasive to me and to others that look at these same facts and calmly infer Self is a remarkably good coach?

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

Denny2009 - As I said before, Billy Donovan had one phenomenal recruiting class. One. What has he done since those players left? NIT. NIT. 1st round tournament loss. Jim Boeheim. Well he has won a Championship, same as Self. Let's use the last 7 year period as a barometer, since you brought it up. Last year's 'cuse squad made the sweet 16, same as Self. Before that, back-to-back NIT appearances. Before that, back-to-back 1st round tournament losses. And before that another sweet 16 appearance. So, while this year has yet to be played out for Syracuse, in the 6 seasons prior he has had 2 sweet 16s, 2 NIT appearances, and 2 1st round losses, with this year pending. For Self, he has 2 Elite 8 appearances, 2 1st round losses, a sweet 16, a National Championship, and a 2nd round loss. Hmm, not seeing why Jim Boeheim is much of an upgrade. And are you seriously comparing the job Calisleazy is doing to Self? Wow. First of all, Championships: Self - 1 (over Calisleazy), Calisleazy - 0. So even if Kentucky wins it all this year, at best from a "getting it done" standpoint he's pulled even. Moving on. Final Fours vacated: Self - 0, Calisleazy - 2. Really bringing him up in the conversation destroys a lot of your credibility.

Everyone just needs to take it easy. I'm not absolving Self of any blame for the way this season ended. It wasn't his best coaching job for sure. However, stack him up against anybody over the last 7 years, and he's definitely one of the best handful of coaches.

jaybate 9 years, 10 months ago

I heard of a professor once who offered some analytic advice, posed as a question, to a person once--a person that was frustrated by some unforeseen outcomes that made the person question the skill of another person running an experiment.

The prof supposedly said, "If you think this person is so incompetent, explain how he gets so many successful outcomes the rest of the time. What is the systematic error in his ways that produces so many successful outcomes and so few unforeseen unsuccessful outcomes? Isn't it just more probable that random error intervenes from time to time and fouls things up, rather than a systematic incompetence diabolically capable of producing largely favorable outcomes and a few unfavorable ones?"

And then the old prof is said to have smiled and shook his head and said no more.

I, of course, must say some more. :-)

I am sorry you feel bad. I do, too.

But the legacy has won five national championships in a century or so, and taken really painful losses, too, so we know the daddy of college basketball, The University of Kansas, can handle an upset by University of Northern Iowa. without having to resort to the Chicken Little model of explaining events. And we know to that KU can move forward and continue the pursuit of excellence.

One loss cannot kill, or even threaten The Legacy, nor can it discredit what Bill Self has accomplished so far.

We have been upset by Bucknell and Bradley.

We came back and won a ring.

We were upset by Northern Iowa.

We may be upset by Ohio, next year, as Georgetown was this year.

But we will win another ring.

David Lara 9 years, 10 months ago

This is ridiculous. Coach Self is THE BEST coach in the nation. That has not changed. We did adapt and did all we could against a team that is a good enough team without being blessed with the hand of God on their side as well. It was just not our night and no matter what we did they got a break at every turn. It happens. It never feels good to be on the receiving end of the perfect storm.

And anybody that says Tyrel Reed is not a fantastic defender is the biggest idiot and should instantly be blacklisted from KU fan sites. That's the most pathetic attempt at finding an excuse I have ever heard of. He pressures better than anyone on our team and has been the defensive and offensive spark for this team several times this season. Pull your heads out.

oreadhawk99 9 years, 10 months ago

Jaybate, you could not have laid out a case any better. Thank you.

jaybate 9 years, 10 months ago

We know we do not have another John Wooden on our hands yet. But we also know John Wooden did not win 82% of his games his first 11 years. It took John Wooden 11-12 years before he won his first. And we know that he didn't lose another until much later. Bill Self already cannot duplicate that. We know this. But even being able to compare him a little to John Wooden is high praise of Bill Self. Further, we also know that Self is apparently operating without a Sam Gilbert, too. And Self has yet to have his Kareem Jabbar, or his Bill Walton.

Let us not be too harsh on Bill Self for getting upset. Maybe this will prove to be his negative at KU. He gets upset slightly more often than other great coaches. I doubt this is the case statistically, but let's pretend that it were so for a moment. Well, I could live with that negative, if he were to win 82% of his games and win a ring every 6 years. Couldn't you?

Six things you and others can bank on KULA.

  1. The sun will come up.

  2. The Daddy of College Basketball will win another ring.

  3. Contucky will bend, or break, the rules big time to win every so often and get exposed occasionally and not other times.

  4. Those who try to get better do get better.

  5. Those who say the sky is falling eventually live under a fallen sky.

  6. Guys who win 82 percent of their games and a national championship in their first 6-7 years at any school are very good coaches.

Rock Chalk!

Hank Cross 9 years, 10 months ago

Oread-I hope you don't vote in any election or criticize an elected official, b/c by your standard - if you do not do the job, you can't criticize. KULA is exactly right. Bottom line - you can create good shots by creating tempo, by putting the ball on the floor and driving to the hole, by forcing the other team to make split-second decisions. Wear them out and they will start committing fouls by moving their arms instead of their feet. Their tired legs won't let them shoot 3s. One person - and only one - had a chance to force the tempo - Self. Yes, the players have to hit the shots, but when you have a system that doesn't allow them to get into a flow, it's much harder to swing it around until someone hits a 3.

FLJHK 9 years, 10 months ago

We're all neurotic fans; how can we be anything but. There's plenty of historical precedent for our love-hate relationship with the NCAA tournament, and today the hate side dominates.

This one does sting, in no small part because the team members and the coaches just seem to be such likable folks. I hate that Sherron has to go out this way. But for me the '97 team's loss was even more painful. That was as well-oiled a college basketball team as I've ever seen, and due to the fickle nature of the NCAA tourney their excellence was not rewarded.

This team never seemed as smooth as the '97 or the '08 teams. Yes, this team was fully deserving of their ranking and seeding, but that was in part due to an overall lack of excellence in this year's version of college hoops. The competition in '97 and '08 was simply better. I don't think there's ever been as much parity in college basketball as there was this season.

Despite today's sadness, there is still much to take pride in from this year's version of Kansas basketball. A great record, regular season and tournament titles in this year's best college basketball conference are outstanding achievements that should not be diminished.

Most of all though, we are blessed to be Jayhawk fans. It is a class program headed by a class coach and with great fans. I don't think many kids ever regret their decision to play basketball at KU. We have had as good a run as any program over the past 20 years, and going forward we know that Kansas will always be in the mix, year after year. We've no real right to ask for more than that.

RCJH

oreadhawk99 9 years, 10 months ago

If you were head coach, what system would you run oxcaljayhawk?

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

Gotta run. Be back to catch up with you all in a couple hours. In the meantime, watch Syracuse. They're running "offense" and "fast breaks."

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

ya know......... IF davidson had made the shot, IF memphis had made 1 more free throw......... those are NO different than last nite..... IF ali had missed that 3, we may have pulled it out! IF marcus's shot had gone down instead of coming out. we might have won. IF we had made one more free throw and uni had made one less.......... fact is, davidson missed and ku capitalized on memphis's mistakes and we won a NC. fact is, uni capitalized on our mistakes and moves on and we go home........ it happens, game after game after game.......... ohio state may end up in the final 4 and they had 2 miracle games in a row to even get a #2 seed.......

should it have happened to OUR hawks?? probably not but it's march madness and why we play the game..... as much as i HATE it and don't believe it could happen again, there are no overs and it's done......... doubt that the pain of the non-2008 championship has gone away for memphis yet......

Denny2009 9 years, 10 months ago

oxcaljayhawk,

Well said, jayhawks should have run UNI out of the building from the get go. Bill Self just allowed UNI to go ahead and establish the tempo and the jayhawks were forced to adjust. Should have been vice versa, its digusting. My one concern for this team all year was their inability to go for the throat and play with intensity. Their nonchalant behavior finally caught up and look what happenned, got beat by players with not even half the talent of ours, they just wanted in more. In the words of Ken "hawk" Harrilson "HE GONE"

Denny2009 9 years, 10 months ago

oxcaljayhawk,

Well said, jayhawks should have run UNI out of the building from the get go. Bill Self just allowed UNI to go ahead and establish the tempo and the jayhawks were forced to adjust. Should have been vice versa, its digusting. My one concern for this team all year was their inability to go for the throat and play with intensity. Their nonchalant behavior finally caught up and look what happenned, got beat by players with not even half the talent of ours, they just wanted in more. In the words of Ken "hawk" Harrilson "HE GONE"

melrank 9 years, 10 months ago

Amazing how many virgin posters are on here today post-loss. Welcome (not).

Interesting reading the posts trying to piece together last night's events and evaluating various comments. Some random thoughts:

Coach Self probably did get out-coached last night and obviously failed to make the necessary adjustments (strategically and emotionally) at the critical times to get us over the hump. The '08 NC helped him shed the label of not being able to win the big one, but this loss will get the naysayers revved up again. However, the guy has taken us to 6 straight league titles and 33 wins this year. We are on a historic run of success with the guy at the helm. Give me a break with the macho criticism. Yes, even criticism casted by veteran youth league coaches who seem to have annoited themselves as experts. IMO it's idiotic to question Coach's methods or X's and O's, but then again, my coaching experience stopped at my son's 1st grade Biddy Ball League.

Trying to compare Bucknell and Bradley to yesterday is totally without merit. Vastly different teams and situations that only represent similar disappointment not the exposure of a gap in Self's abilities as a coach. You can piece together similar runs of frustration and futility for any program in America even though it feels like it always happen to us.

Lack of Intensity - Other than Sherron, this team has a laid back personality. Cole and X are not emotional fireballs. Tyshawn and the Twins have lots of emotion but not always the positive kind and Self has reeled these guys in - maybe too much. Tyrell and Brady are glue guys, not emotional leaders. Unfortunately, Coaching isn't going to change personalities. This is the hand we dealt ourselves over the years and to think you can switch it on when needed is not reasonable. If anything, this might be more of a recruiting blunder than a coaching blunder. This sort of leads me to my next thought . . .

melrank 9 years, 10 months ago

Amazing how many virgin posters are on here today post-loss. Welcome (not).

Interesting reading the posts trying to piece together last night's events and evaluating various comments. Some random thoughts:

Coach Self probably did get out-coached last night and obviously failed to make the necessary adjustments (strategically and emotionally) at the critical times to get us over the hump. The '08 NC helped him shed the label of not being able to win the big one, but this loss will get the naysayers revved up again. However, the guy has taken us to 6 straight league titles and 33 wins this year. We are on a historic run of success with the guy at the helm. Give me a break with the macho criticism. Yes, even criticism casted by veteran youth league coaches who seem to have annoited themselves as experts. IMO it's idiotic to question Coach's methods or X's and O's, but then again, my coaching experience stopped at my son's 1st grade Biddy Ball League.

Trying to compare Bucknell and Bradley to yesterday is totally without merit. Vastly different teams and situations that only represent similar disappointment not the exposure of a gap in Self's abilities as a coach. You can piece together similar runs of frustration and futility for any program in America even though it feels like it always happen to us.

Lack of Intensity - Other than Sherron, this team has a laid back personality. Cole and X are not emotional fireballs. Tyshawn and the Twins have lots of emotion but not always the positive kind and Self has reeled these guys in - maybe too much. Tyrell and Brady are glue guys, not emotional leaders. Unfortunately, Coaching isn't going to change personalities. This is the hand we dealt ourselves over the years and to think you can switch it on when needed is not reasonable. If anything, this might be more of a recruiting blunder than a coaching blunder. This sort of leads me to my next thought . . .

melrank 9 years, 10 months ago

Way up the board somewhere someone posted a line about the team not having a complete 40 minutes of basketball the entire year except for the Temple game. We all moaned about this team's inconsistency and their unwillingness to come out of the gate, get a lead, and "step on their throat." This comment, since it seems to be universally accepted by most all of us fans, keeps rolling around in my head as I wonder, "Just how good was this KU team?" Is it possible that our 33-2 record was a result of over-achievement? Cue the roll of the eyes and a laugh it up. But, in the course of 35 prior games, if we only played a complete game once, when does that level of play become what you ARE not what you COULD be? To be fair, we could have lost several more games this year with a few bounces of the ball in the other direction. I know this thought will take some serious heat but is it possible that the Northern Iowas, Cornells, and Oklahoma States of the world really were closer to us than we would have liked to admit? So close, that even an average night (and lets not kid ouselves, Northern Iowa was very average) by a mid-major could topple us if we stumbled just a little? Rather than us not showing up to play for two days in OKC, could it be that we weren't that much better?

I don't know, just a thought in the darkest part of my brain today as I'm asking my wife where she hid all of the steak knives. LOL.

Bottom line - what a fun year this has been - a great ride. Enjoyed the chat during the games fellow board rats. Too bad only one result was going to be satisfactory.

It's good to be a Jayhawk because next year we won't have to rebuild we will . . .

RELOAD!

RCJH

oreadhawk99 9 years, 10 months ago

drgnslayr - I to have spent a considerable amount of time in sales, and I've sat through as many motivational training seminars as you have, I'm sure. And yes, a person can motivate another for a short time, but it is fleeting. True motivation comes from within.

Bill Self could have fired his players up for each and every game, but player's should have the fire inside them already. Bill Self shouldn't have to motivate highly talented players to go out on the court and play a game at or above their skill level.

What you said is exactly correct, "Success is not an option, it's a declaration of the mind and soul." But it is a declaration of an individual's mind and soul, declared by oneself.

melrank 9 years, 10 months ago

Oops - sorry about the double post. It really looked Jaybate like when you add the extra one.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

HighEliteMajor - uh...again it was your post that didn't make sense, where you are comparing apples to oranges.

Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly: It is acceptable for Carolina to have a .500 season and miss the NCAA tournament because the year prior they won a championship.

I'm with you so far, to which I would say KU didn't have to endure a .500 season the year after winning an NCAA Championship, instead we won the Big 12 again and made it to the sweet 16. That would be better right?

Then you lose me, where you have some imaginary scenario where you are giving us a 16-16 next year and had us winning the title this year. Not sure what that has to do with...anything.

Dan Harris 9 years, 10 months ago

Good(not great) season Hawks. It simply amazes me how many people come on these boards every year bitching and moaning how bad we are at this or that and how we need to fire our loser of a coach( Roy,Mangino now Self) Get a grip , there will only be 1 champion this year and the set up of this tournament makes winning one that much sweeter. Criticizing the players for their poor play or Coach Self for not pushing the right buttons is fine but you all are going completely overboard with some of the comments calling for his head!(sorry HEM for using an exclamation point!!) Damn I did it again!!!

kikoluna 9 years, 10 months ago

Enough with the kumbaya next year crap. You win games like this, period. We have a great coach and recruiter but I have questioned the personnel all year long. From the onset we need a second true scorer to compliment Collins. X has much upside but still mostly a perimeter player. You had Little sitting on that bench all year and he was exactly what they needed. Mid-range game and scorer mind set. You cannot have a squad of complimentrary role players. Seems to be a trend that we only want unselfish players. All well and good but who is your go to guy? A sign of a truly great program is the ability to reflect and respond to some of these deficiencies.

anbemis 9 years, 10 months ago

I am a huge KU fan but most of you make me sick. When things are good all you talk about is how good they are. Now that the Hawks have lost you are whining and complaining about why we lost and ripping on players. How about giving Northern Iowa some credit for playing a once in a lifetime game. Yes, we shot poorly and Collins had an off night, that's the way it goes. Everyone says they did not play good defense but come on we Iowa scored 69 points with lights out early shooting. Have you ever seen so many long rebounds (Northern Iowa) in a game before?

I can't wait for next year and am proud of the entire team for all of the excitment they provided. Look at it this way. We one the title game two years ago when we probably should not have and lost this year when we arguably had the best team KU has every put together.

Coach Self, keep up the good work. Personally, I think you are a way better coach that Roy Williams. Looking foward to next year.

Denny2009 9 years, 10 months ago

Just heard the announcer on CBS say the Cuse' is using our loss as motivation. Must be working they are winning by 25.

addlime 9 years, 10 months ago

Wow! A lot of venting on this site. Better than mass suicides I guess. Here's my share. Takes three things for KU to lose to NI.
1. KU plays poorly with tight shooting and too many turnovers. 2. NI plays out of their minds, with a 7 footer that shoots 11% from the field going 2 for 2 from behind the arc in the first half. 3. Refs. They weren't horrible, but the last 5 minutes, they played a huge part in KU not completing the comeback. They called 2 charges against us, and didn't call 2 charges that Reed took. Same play on both ends called different ways, and that was the difference in the game. Should have been 4 charges, or no charges. For me that's the toughest part to swallow.

addlime 9 years, 10 months ago

Wow! A lot of venting on this site. Better than mass suicides I guess. Here's my share. Takes three things for KU to lose to NI.
1. KU plays poorly with tight shooting and too many turnovers. 2. NI plays out of their minds, with a 7 footer that shoots 11% from the field going 2 for 2 from behind the arc in the first half. 3. Refs. They weren't horrible, but the last 5 minutes, they played a huge part in KU not completing the comeback. They called 2 charges against us, and didn't call 2 charges that Reed took. Same play on both ends called different ways, and that was the difference in the game. Should have been 4 charges, or no charges. For me that's the toughest part to swallow.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

drgnslayr - Typically I enjoy your posts and often agree. I do dissent from your opinion here however. First of all, I'm sorry you were not able to stay awake during the Bill Self Show. I never missed it, and in Wichita it aired at 10:35 PM on NBC. I don't have a DVR, so I watched them all live, including the two shows during the Olympics that aired after 2 in the morning. I managed to stay awake. However, this is besides the point. I am fairly certain that the manner in which Coach Self speaks to his team, pre-game, in-game, during practices, is probably different than during a show breaking down games with 65-year old Bob Davis, games Self's already broken down with his staff & team. Also, no two individuals are the same, and no two teams are the same. Working your team up into a frenzy might work for one group, but might not for another. Let's watch the success of Frank Martin over the next few seasons and see if screaming down his players' throats continues to yield the same level of success. Or to give you an example that has already played out, look at how certain Bill Parcells' teams responded to him and how others did not.

Dyrk Dugan 9 years, 10 months ago

it's a bad loss, and Self will have to live with it..and learn from it.

we all have to live up, or deal with falling short, of our own, and our loved ones or work's, expectations. we were the #1 ranked team in the country for basically the entire season...we won a bunch of games...and dominated our league.

and yet, here we are, the day after another "falls short" loss. another chapter in KU disappointing lore folks...just another chapter.

this school has a great storied tradition...and no one can take that away. but we are not a glory bound, dripping with national championship swagger school....we're just not.

we have never been pre season ranked #1, and won the title. NEVER. we just can't handle it. oh, we try and say all the right things....talk about our "good kids"...and all of our hard work, and dedication....but in the end, it's just basketball. it's just basketball players, making basketball plays, night in and night out.

Collins and Taylor were 0-11 from three. You could be all over them in a pickup game, and they'll make two or three. UNI had the lead 18-12 on 2nd chance pts...21-11 on points of TOs...either category could be a tie...and we would have won...let alone if we would have actually WON one of those stats.

50-50 balls, and TOs...it comes down that. and this team couldn't consistently force TOs...we weren't near as good defensively as say, the '08 team. (national title.)

Celebrate the successes folks...and celebrate 'em hard. because they are few and far between on Mt. Oread. we're fortunate, and spoiled around here, season in and season out...but a national title dynasty school, we are not.

we'll still field a team next year...and some schools will schedule some games with us. we'll be OK.

Spring football anyone? Go Jayhawks!

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

i agree, the players should have been fired up themselves. sherron is usually the cheerleader....... and it was the big dance..... isn't that ENOUGH to fire up a team especially when lehigh was no pushover???? geez.... i would think they would WANT to win........ they wanted it for sherron when it was over.... why not before and during???? yes they were EXPECTED to win it all but NO team was 100% dominant this year so each and every 1-16 seed should have known it was time to come fired up, play hard with a will to win, and PROVE who #1 should be. maybe ku wasn't the best of the best but they should NOT have gone out this early, even with the bad regional seedings, etc., we were BETTER than this.

Greg Lux 9 years, 10 months ago

We are living proof that great players don't always make a great team ... We have struggled all year to be a team and it just seemed that the chemistry was never there for long if at all. Sad to see so much talent and unselfishness go to waist do to intangibles that will be discussed until next season at least. For some reason we looked to be too unselfish at times .. and it hurt our scoring chances by turning over the ball more and more looking to get just the right shot.... Anyway .. back to crying..

Rock Chalk

Bill Shaw 9 years, 10 months ago

The Madness doesn't come from 63 of the 64 teams losing. It comes when your team is ranked #1 and looses early.

JHWK 9 years, 10 months ago

@ Freddy, KULA, et al. - go find another team to cheer for. Did you even watch the same game as the rest of us? Get over yourselves. Self is one of the winningest, classiest, most ethical coaches in basketball today. He has had some tough losses in the Tourney, but name a coach who hasn't. Oh, you can't? No $hit, fair-weather-fans.

Self prepared the players as good as he could, but who's 7 footer makes 2 3's in a game? Who takes a 3-pointer with 28 seconds left on the shot clock when possessions are the key? There were countless reasons we lost, and all of them suck as excuses. We got beat with our players on the floor not making plays, and not doing what the coaches were asking. The players play the game.

Read Posnanski's column. He's right on the money. This team NEVER had a game look easy, regardless of the opponent. The team was worse than the sum of it's parts, for sure. No rhythm and very few signs of effortless play.

I'll miss Sherron, and am sorry it couldn't have been a Final Four for his senior year, but he is the leader of the team that didn't show yesterday. He'll learn and grow from that, I hope.

Cole and X should both return next year, as I agree with many of you who said this was Cole's worst year, even as compared to his little PT during his Freshman year. X has to learn to make a right-handed layup, develop a quicker release, and create in the lane.

What about the guards left undecided? Will they for sure go elsewhere after yesterday? I bet they do. Unless Self can make a plea on their part that they'll get as much PT as Collins got in his career. Knight for sure goes elsewhere. Very disappointing, b/c we really need a point guard for the next 4 years.

Now to face the Mizzou/K-State fans who will surely never let us forget this.
Rock Chalk!

Bill Shaw 9 years, 10 months ago

Defense doesn't win if the team is unable to: a. handle the ball (turnovers) and/or b. shoot better than 40%.

Chris Shaw 9 years, 10 months ago

I have to admit this is a tough one to muster. I actually had to step away last night and hang out with a Nova buddy to release my frustration at the bar. Last night was actually quite fun, but I would see highlights on the TV or see the 30 points that Kentucky was up and just yell out a quick F-Bomb as if I had turrets syndrome or something. I've been trying to come up with the words to describe this loss, but every time I think I know where this post is going to go, I get a quick flashback of 3 after 3 after 3 after 3 going in the hoop for the UNI Panthers. Just when you think as a fan that KU and Kansas basketball has climbed the ladder on the National Stage and can't do anything wrong they lay this type of egg.

In a year where UCLA, Indiana, and UNC have all had disappointing seasons, this was the year for KU to separate their program from everybody else in the modern day of college basketball. Even if it wasn't a Championship, but to get back to a Final 4 only 2 years removed from a Championship is still quite a feat and definitely would have been a great feat had it happened in 2010.

Instead, KU fans alike all across the country will now have flashbacks of the 90's with the 1992 UTEP loss and the 1998 Rhode Island Loss to go with many other early exits from the NCAA Dance. What is it with Kansas Basketball getting a #1 seed, for that fact the overall #1 seed, and losing during the first weekend of the NCAA tournament? I don't quite understand it. Why does Kansas seem to be the Atlanta Braves of College Basketball? Why does Kansas have 33.3 percent of their losses as a #1 seed (9 all-time) in the second round of the NCAA Dance? Why when it seems that Kansas has reached the pinnacle to make a good run in the Dance, something like this happens? All I know is that Kansas had a very very bad night and that has only fueled the rest of the country, especially the East Coast Pundits, to make a mockery of the Jayhawks. Is that fair? Well, when you're on top like the Kansas Jayhawks and you're from the Midwest in a small TV market, the Kansas Jayhawks and the fans that support our Hawks are going to have to stand there with pride and take this one on the chin. It's going to hurt for a while, but the Jayhawks will rise again.

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

ya know, it's true....... it would have taken SO little to turn the game our way last nite. just a few rebounds coming OUR way instead of landing in uni's hands...... just one less turnover, just one more free throw, just one of marcus's early shots going down, ali missing that last 3...... AND i agree on the charges...... call all 4 or call NONE of them. if it had been sherron in the lane instead of tyrel, would they have still called the charge on us??? just a couple breaks and we move on instead of being devastated and ruined early........

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

icthawkfan316: For the last time, you said "Carolina - well they're playing in the NIT this year, as they were in '03! Imagine not making the dance twice in the last 8 seasons! They lost in the 2nd round in '04."

You were comparing KU to UNC, imply our situation is better. That we are more consistent. You were making fun of NC in the NIT. I said I'd take 16-16 (and an NIT) following a title year. That's not apples to oranges. Give me that right now. But I guess you're just not understanding that. To go more directly, I'd take 8 years, 2 titles, and two years not making the tourney, and losing one year in the 2nd round over what we have had. Does that register in your brain?

whynot123 9 years, 10 months ago

rock chalk JAY CHOKE, THANKS A LOT YOU JUST COST ME SOME MONEY

Dan Harris 9 years, 10 months ago

Oread- your right about true motivation comes from within. I'm a sales manager and I can tell you from over 30 years of experience most people that aren't self-motivated(no play om words intended) won't take outside motivation for very long.

yvonnewarren 9 years, 10 months ago

If we are true KU fans from the Heart, then we feel the same way that the team feels. I was so disappointed in the lose but someone had to and it just happened to be us. We shouldn't be looking back at all the things that went wrong during the season or what You think went wrong and start blaming it on this game. This was only our 3rd lose of the season. Sorry that it happened at this time and we are done but it did. We won the regular season title and the tournament title so how could some people say we had a bad year? Only one team can say that they had the best year ever and that is the team that wins it all. Everyone else will end with a lose just like us. No matter how far you go in the tournament if you don't win it all it's a lose. So fans if you are TRUE BLUE don't hate on the hawks everytime they don't win. just say that you are mad that they lost and it should hurt if you are for real. So ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK GO KU!! Also I am 15 minutes from Manhattan, born in kansas and I will NEVER NEVER yell for ksu. LETS GO HAWKS!!

jayhawkjoe98 9 years, 10 months ago

This loss has definitely taught us (maybe just me) a couple of things:

  1. Seeding really does not mean anything. It truly is all about the draw.

  2. Proximity to home does not mean anything come tourney time. It truly is all about how you play. Is it possible that such close proximity leads to complacency?

Chris Shaw 9 years, 10 months ago

After spending a lot of time thinking about his loss, it does make me angry or rather just an annoyance as to how KU under the Bill Self era continually struggles with Mid-Majors? It's amazing what one early loss will do to the psyche of us fans, but it is a legitimate area that needs to be addressed. Who does this loss fall into the hands of? I think this loss falls into the hands of Bill Self for a terrible game plan.

I've said many times over and over and over again that Mid-Majors are getting better with every year as the talent across this country grows and grows. Even though the team names are changing, every year a UNI, Davidson, or Cornell pops up on the radar and Kansas consistently struggles with these type of teams. Why is that? I have my ideas and I have shared those many times. Bill Self's offense allows less athletic teams to stay in ball games and it is simply because of Tempo. This has been a consistent theme since he came to Kansas. As a fan, I've never been worried about playing Michigan State or North Carolina, but I almost twitch to my death when I see an experienced senior laden team like UNI, Cornell, or Davidson on the schedule.

Precision, timing, execution and experience are things Self's teams struggle with. UNI had to execute an almost perfect game plan yesterday to win the ball game, but you know what? They certainly did that. UNI "Valued" possessions and so many times KU and Self play the game for that perfection. Well, when a team that is less athletic, but has all the other tools that define a great team, UNI deserved to win that game. UNI obviously had less room for error, but they executed their game plan perfectly and KU realized too late to make the necessary adjustments.

The only good out of this loss is that I hope Jayhawk fans will start giving teams like Cornell and UNI the respect they deserve. And yes, they totally deserve everything they get despite not getting a lot of publicity. Next year, it will probably be two different teams, but hopefully when that team comes to fruition on the forums, fans will give that team the respect they deserve.

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

IF we had made it to the final 4 and lost, we would still be devastated because we wanted to win it all. maybe that was never realistic with this team but we still believed. it IS Harder to go out this soon because it's embarrassing and so unexpected but with a season like this, it was going to be a heartbreaker whether it was now OR in the championship game. NOT as embarrassing but still as heartbreaking....... i hate it for sherron and probably cole but lots of other players across the country are feeling it, too, just maybe did not have as high as expectations....

Chris Shaw 9 years, 10 months ago

Coaching: Just when you think Bill Self can't do anything wrong, he goes and loses in the second round of the NCAA Tournament as the overall #1 seed. I'm curious how other fans view Bill Self at the moment? Right now, it seems to be hit or miss in the most important tournament every year for Kansas under Bill Self. Self has 2 Elite 8's, a Sweet 16, and a NCAA Championship to go with 2 first round losses (A #4 seed and a #3 Seed) and now this loss in the second round. That doesn't look like the history of having consistently "Tough" teams. With this loss to UNI, Self now has 15 total wins in his tenure at Kansas in the most important tournament in which you're judged as a coach. I don't know about all of you, but that isn't a very good number especially as the coach of "Kansas". That means Self is averaging just two wins a year in the Big Dance. Is that good? What do you all think?

Even though Self's game plan against Mid-Majors is something I don't agree with, he went completely away from that game plan. I know most don't like Morningstar or thought he didn't play well down the stretch, but when was the last time Morningstar only played 8 minutes in game? Pretty terrible game management IMO. How about Tyshawn Taylor getting 22 minutes and going 0-6 from the field? People don't understand why Taylor is under such a microscope and Morningstar gets a free pass. Well, the game yesterday is evidence of that fact right there. Self went down and went down hard letting Taylor shoot more 3's than he has all year.

I was definitely hard on Self from 2004 to 2007 and then he changed my opinion in 2008 and 2009 and now this in 2010. I don't know what to think at the moment, but I know as a fan I'm going to have to start at ground zero again with Self for the 2010-2011 season and that is something I am not looking forward to. I was hoping that Kansas had put these early NCAA departures behind them, but for some reason Kansas likes to falter on the big stage when the spotlight is completely shining on them.

hellarockchalk 9 years, 10 months ago

I get a kick out of the so-called "true fans" that slam the so-called "fair weather fans" for expressing their disgust about what just took place. Yes, a fan should back their team unconditionally, but does that mean we can't feel a bit of betrayal with an underachievement this team just painted on our school? They play for us and our school when they put on that uniform, and when they lack the intensity and spirit within, its a slap in our face too. I hate reading " oh this stuff just happens sometimes" I say bulls**t on that. That is a cop out statement. And it is also the coaching that warrants a bit of blame. If something isn't going right, change it! Don't rely on percentages. All that means to me is that the coaching staff was waiting for something to happen and not making something happen. The players should be able to voice their opinions being they are out there on the court in the battle. They should have fun playing the game, but not play for fun. If everyone is content with a good regular season, then go watch rec ball. When players lace up their tennis shoes, they are playing for a goal, and we all know the goal. It's the same goal even the small schools dream about, and it's not to have just a good regular season. So piss on everyone who is content with having a decent regular season, we were slapped in our loyal faces! Deniers can only be in denial for so long.

I will always be a proud former and present Jayhawk, but will always expect to see the same sense of pride in our student and athletes, and when they don't show it for the 40 minutes they represent us then they deserve to hear a bit of our mind.

justinryman 9 years, 10 months ago

There seems to be a lot room on the wagon today, a lot of people have jumped off the bandwagon that is. Oh well I'm on it and won't jump. I was on it before 1988, weathered through the 1989 season when we couldn't go to the tourny and all those bad football seasons too. I am a Jayhawk fan.

Am I upset of the loss? Yeah, but I will not waiver in my love for the program, the coaches, the players.

Sherron, thank you for the memories, you will go doen as one of the all time greats at KU. It dosent matter how you finished your career, it's the body of work that proceeded it. Again thank you fora full 4 years.

It's better to be a Jayhawk fan and win one every 20 years than be a Missery fan and never win one at all!!!!

Roch Chalk!!!

bradynsdad 9 years, 10 months ago

jaybate never read your comments before but now i will. thanks for the great post sticking up for self.

Mike Kendall 9 years, 10 months ago

Slayr and kushaw--- Both well said posts. A lot of what you said is how I feel. Trying to make sense of the Jayhawks loss. Hawks will rise again. A lot of teams wish they were in our position (being a high seed and being successful on a yearly basis).

I enjoy your posts---keep 'em coming!

newyorkjayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

I said it before the start of the tourney and I'll say it again now.... we the fans of the Kansas basketball program are the luckiest fans in the world to have a coach with class, a team of good character, and a national contender every single year.

I'm going to miss Sherron, not only because of the winningest career in program history, but also because of the contagious sense of strength, aggressiveness, and attitude to the court. This team stood as the number 1 team in the nation for all but 3 or 4 weeks out of the season. This team won the regular season and post season tournament titles for the best ranked conference in the nation. I guarantee that if Kansas were to play Northern Iowa 10 times that Kansas would win anywhere between 7 and 9 of those match ups. Everyone is going to have a bad day and Northern Iowa caught us on ours. Still, KU outscored UNI by 10 over the last 10 minutes of the ball game. They never gave up, and as a fan that's all I could ever ask for. Only one team wins the title each season and it's not always going to be the best team in the nation that does it. This is just one of those years.

Sherron, keep your head high, your four years made us proud. Cole, I hope you come back to earn your degree, but whatever your future holds, I believe you deserve success. Xavier, you constantly make me thankful that of all the top notch freshmen in your class, that you were the one that chose Kansas as you displayed an unselfish, mature, and motivated persona from the season's opening tip-off to the seasons final minutes -- I hope you bring that game back to Kansas so we can help mold you into the best player you can be when you finally do get drafted. Otherwise, another year of vast improvement from the Morris twins, a beefed up Whithey, and a more polished TR could make for the most imposing front court in the nation for next season. A combo of Brady, Reed, Taylor, and CJ Henry could create the most mature, fundamentally sound, and effective backcourt in the nation. Add Mario Little, Travis Releford, and whatever freshmen sign on, and we're going to be stacked again. Next season is going to be awesome. i can't wait.

thank you, jayhawks, for an amazing season. RCJHGKU!

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

HighEliteMajor - way to take something I'd written regarding something else completely and taking it completely out of context! Someone had said that they doubted any of the other elite programs had losses comparable to ours. Nice try attempting to misdirect what was actually being discussed. You were not part of that discussion nor was that comment of mine you re-posted directed at you or anything you had posted. Try and keep up.

Furthermore, you were not going as far back as Roy's first title. Someone had made the comment that while yes this loss stings, imagine how Carolina feels, a year removed from a title and now playing in the NIT. You completely manipulated that comment as well, imposing an imaginary scenario wherein you'd take an NIT trip for Kansas next year if it meant a title this year. Again, that fictional, choose-your-own-adventure set of circumstances has nothing to do with anything. The apples-to-apples comparison is Carolina fell to the NIT following winning it all, whereas we advanced to the sweet 16. Does that register? Probably not, I'm sure the "Aflac Duck" feeling is all too familiar to you.

Now, if you are wanting to have a discussion about who's current situation is better, I'd argue ours is. Certainly I think even an early exit in the big dance is better than playing in the NIT. What program do you think is more poised for success in '11? Sure Carolina as some good recruits coming in (namely Harrison Barnes), but wasn't that what we heard this year? I think given the progression of the Twins and who we have returning that next year we will have more success than the Tar Heels.

Please, by all means, feel free to list your impecable coaching credentials again, dig through months of old posts and re-post bits and pieces of something that no one cares to research as to the context, keep telling everyone that you were right all along and everyone else is uneducated sheep. However, I don't think that's doing much to prove your point that you are a loyal KU fan. As it's coming off now, tearing down players, coaches, & fans...it sounds more like you are happier to have been "right" than you would have been if we had won yesterday.

P.S. Just wondering, if UNC goes on to win the NIT, does anyone think they'll hang that banner up in their rafters? How awesome would that be? Kinda like being valedictorian of summer school.

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

syracuse certainly stood tall today and won big. now i suppose we are motivation to all higher seeds to not take anyone for granted.....

Omari Miller 9 years, 10 months ago

Wow. A lot of irrational venting here. I think the only real takeaways from this are:

1) Self's teams need to have something other than a chip on their shoulder to motivate them to coming out and playing to their potential.

2) X can go middle of first round, but shouldn't. Cats with huge upside like X don't get better sitting on the bench of a playoff team. Also, he could develop his game so much by being able create off the dribble, post up some, and be looked to as the clutch performer. X, you could be one and done, but staying and getting better is a win-win for you and Jayhawk Nation.

3) Cole, good luck at the next level, get that money and make us proud. We'd be happy if you stayed and got another ring, but your game probably is what it is and you have nothing left to prove. Thanks for your tremendous contribution to the Hill and 'Hawks.

4) S-Dot, sorry this didn't work out the way we all hoped it would, but you're still one of the best KU players of all time, and your jersey will be hanging in the rafters of the greatest college basketball venue. Hard to replace a player that has the heart, abililty and nerve to step up and lead a program as big as Kansas.

5) To all you so-called fans now hating on your own team because of what's certainly a big disappointment, there are other teams that could use your following. Seriously, dispite this end, Kansas has the longest active tourney streak, a coach which is posting better and faster results than any other in its long, storied history, the best recruits still always consider coming to Lawrence, etc... It's a sad day across Jayhawk Nation, but all things considered, it's still nice to bleed crimson and blue.

It would be nice to get another stud like Josh Selby or Doron Lamb, to have X come back, and we'd be great with any or all these scenarios, but KU is going to remain damn good even with just who we've had sitting on the side waiting to become The Man.

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

i agree.... IF we played uni 10 times, i bet we would win 8 or 9 of the 10. everyone has off games and unfortunately ours happened at the wrong time. not that we didn't have OTHER off games this year..... some we won, 2 others we lost. yes, this one hurts more and should have been SOOOOOO different but it happens. if ANYONE on the team had the hot hand and uni hadn't been LUCKY with the 3, it would have been different, guaranteed. IF........

Denny2009 9 years, 10 months ago

hellarockchalk, you're correct. I'm tired of these fans that are content with this 30+ win season and just figure o' well we lost, better luck next year. Screw that, people need to be held accountable, you just can't lose games like that, bottom line. You're 100% correct, if someone is content with our regular season and nothing else, go cheer on junior high basketball, where everyone gets a pat on the back. As far as I'm concerned the season doesn't start until March thats what you prepare for. Nobody is going to look back on the team of 2009-2010 and be content with their 30+ wins (well i suppose some of you are) they are going to see the jayhawks have added another notch of being a weak tourney team. This 2009-2010 played down to everyones level all season, they showed zero superiority. I don't know about some fans out there but it should fire you up. You look at all the offcourt issues earlier in the year and its a prime example that many of these players heads were in the clouds all season. Terrible reflection of KU as a whole.

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

yes, KU will always be good.... it's tradition, it's a proven fact and HCBS has proven he can win and win faster than others he has followed. why do we fall apart at the big dance? not sure but i won't blame the coach...... at least not exclusively. there was a LOT Of pressure this year and i'm not sure we were quite as good as we hoped or should have been. we had the talent and the depth but never PROVED it often enough. yes, winning the big 12 AND the big 12 tourney were huge because the big 12 was the toughest but i never could feel like we were invincible which is what i hoped for and what jayhawk nation wanted. next year and the next year will be good no matter who stays or goes........

63Jayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Thanks to Coach Self and Sherron, and the entire team for a very good year. I am confident that if you played a three game series with Northern Iowa or any team in the NCAA that you would win at least two. This one did not work out, but it was still a great year and a good year to be a Jayhawk fan. Thank you and best of luck in the future.

Chris Shaw 9 years, 10 months ago

Denny: I somewhat agree. All I know is that I don't what to revert back to the 90's where KU wins a lot of regular season games and does poorly in the tournament. I would rather have 5 or 6 losses and figure out your team to prepare for success in the tourney.

Unfortunately, tournament results is what counts. I know KU had 33 wins, but I could care less about those wins. I think that's why I like Tom Izzo so much. He has a knack for preparing his teams for the dance.

I still hate the fact KU cut down the nets in Kansas City for the Big 12.

Chris Shaw 9 years, 10 months ago

All I know is that I'm the biggest Cornell, St. Mary's, and Cornell fans the rest of the way. Cornell playing really well in the first 6 minutes against Wisconsin. I would really like to see something that hasn't happened in a very long time. A mid-major winning the National Title. That would be sweet. Odds are not very good, but this tournament has been crazy so far. Just don't want to see Kentucky, Syracuse, or a Big 10 team get to the Final 4.

Cornell is playing like it's their last possession of the season. You have to love that type of fight.

Chris Shaw 9 years, 10 months ago

Oops, I meant Cornell, St. Mary's and UNI fan the rest of the way.

oreadhawk99 9 years, 10 months ago

Drgnslayr - I agree with much of what you have said regarding your post directed toward me and It's obvious your love of this program runs deep as does mine. I appreciate how you can articulate your criticism well without disrecpecfully degrading our players and coach.

Neither you or I are privy to what has taken place between Bill Self and his players behind closed doors this season nor the last four. Coach Self may very well have done what was necessary to motivate his team, but you can only help to change one's internal motivation as much as one is willing to receive it. As you said, personal growth is a lifelong process, and as talented as these players are, we have to remember, they are just young men, and like we all have done at one time or another, we lose focus.

This is a game, and as humans, we are all fallible, and even the most intrinsically motivated person will make mistakes and miscalculations, coaches included.

I think we are on the same page for the most part and I appreciate your contribution to this forum.

Dan Harris 9 years, 10 months ago

Yeah I'll be rooting for those 3 plus The Big 12 teams(especially Turg's team) man today sucks had a bad feeling yesterday but NEVER expected it to come truee,we never do.

Ryan Peck 9 years, 10 months ago

A quote about the Northern Iowa Coach from a KUsports.com article the other day: "He also will never take out his players for a bad shot or a turnover on offense." This is striking.

IMHO, our guys are too scared on the offensive end. Passing up open shots, deferring taking shots, etc.

Scare them into playing the hell out of defense (which leads to good offense), but don't punish players for being aggressive on the offensive end. They'll never play loose otherwise. I still love Self, so this is only said with much due respect.

Sherron - you are, and always will be, the man.

Bill Shaw 9 years, 10 months ago

Williams- run & gun, wins the blowouts, can't figure out how to coach the last minute of really close games.

Self - Defense & can coach the last minute in really close games. Not many blowouts because blowouts make the players on the other team feel bad.

Note to self - We need more blowouts.

Bryan Swan 9 years, 10 months ago

Kansas Jayhawks--Thank you for a wonderful season. I know last night and the next few days will be tough--but hold your heads high and be proud. Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

babyjay1 9 years, 10 months ago

Hawkfan316 - gotta agree with you and not even sure what Elitemajor is trying to say... And, along with the other true blue Hawk fans, I'm on the wagon and alway will be!!!! Damn those exclamation points!!!! For those of you wanting the spring football game, I hope you won't start bashing HCTG the second he does something that doesn't agree with you! Love my Jayhawks!!! Couldn't we all come together for a few hours and root for Cornell and West Virginia - PLEASE take out Mizzery....

Dirtwood 9 years, 10 months ago

Self is a good coach (probably great) but every team who has ever played us has NEVER feared us. We let everyone have a chance to play with us. Not one of Self's teams has ever had the ability to crush the life out of an opponent - Self even said it himself.."You gotta be able to step down after putting your foot on someone's throat" KU has NEVER put their foot down under Self.

tstanlick1909 9 years, 10 months ago

What I'm about to say will be taken the wrong way, and I may be crucified, but hear me out.

Although John Calipari (Whom I hate more than just about anyone else) is the most un-admirable coaches I have ever seen. I can respect his thought process and his execution.

He does what he needs to (WorldWideWes, possible payments and/or benefits) to lure the top tier talent to whatever school he is at, and he knows how to light a fire under them and let them loose.

Kansas and Kentucky both have these top tier talents and athletes, but between Self and Calipari, Calipari is the one that is building confidence in his players, making them think they are the best, and they have played like it their first two games.

I hate Kentucky and all things related, but if Self were to get the kind of effort from his team like Calipari does from his, our Hawks would have had no trouble with UNI.

What it came down to last night was pure lack of confidence and motivation. We got punched in the nose early in the game and they knocked us off our horse. You could tell that our players were shocked and we lost our mojo very early.

If Tyshawn has to do a flashy drive, followed by a salute to get himself going, let him do it. We needed a spark last night and we never got it. We needed swagger and it was nowhere to be found.

Each player on our team needs to look at the man guarding them and say, "I am better than he is, we are better than they are. We will not play down to them, and we will win this game by 30." That is competitive confidence, and it is what we missed all year long.

I read HighEliteMajor's comments about being a competitive athlete, and he was right. There was something seriously wrong with our team all year, it was hunger. We were capable of beating UNI last night by 30 points, and that has to be our goal going into every game.

With that being said, I hope next year's team delivers that competitive edge that we did not have this season.

Always good to be a Jayhawk, even on days like these.

Rock Chalk, forever and always

sherronisbeast 9 years, 10 months ago

have the jayhawks already come back to lawrence or not yet

John Sheehan 9 years, 10 months ago

Jaybate - love your posts...always my favorites...today more needed than ever.

Sherron - thank you...regardless of the outcome of one game - you belong in the rafters in the Mecca of College Basketball...and will always be in my all-time KU starting five.

Cole - thank you...it's amazing how you've matured on defense...just think what another year bulking up and fine tuning your offense at KU could do. You could become a Jayhawk legend if you are a part of 2 NC's. The NBA will wait..

X - you need at least another year - you've proven nothing other than you're a streaky outside shooter with unlimited potential...would love to see you join Cole back in Lawrence and develop into a complete, confident player the way Brandon did in years 2 and 3.. and win the NC to put your name in the rafters as well. The NBA will wait...

To the rest all coming back...let in sink in...let it burn. Be back ready to shock everyone next year!

Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

they supposedly left okc at 8:30 last nite...... 5 hour trip, weather permitting..... haven't heard any more.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

KUShaw - I thought about your statement "but that isn't a very good number especially as the coach of "Kansas". That means Self is averaging just two wins a year in the Big Dance". OK, 15 wins in 7 trips - 2.14 wins/year . Lets look at Roy Williams, he had 32 wins in 14 trips - 2.28 wins/year. Not all that different (and let's all remember, Self has a ring here, something Roy never got during his tenure in Lawrence). Roy had 5 exits in the 2nd round, including 3 straight years. So are we to believe that Kansas hasn't had a very good coach since '88?

OK, so let's look at some other big name coaches. Jim Boheim - 46 wins in 26 trips - 1.77 wins/year. A National Championship and two other runner-ups. 12 times he lost in either the 1st or 2nd round (a higher % than that of HCBS) and he failed to make the big dance 6 times. How many times do you imagine fans were complaining about his style of play, the 2-3 zone, over the years? They're probably pretty happy now. Billy Donovan - 22 wins in 10 trips - 2.2 wins/year. Back-to-back National Championships and a runner-up. 6 times losing in the 1st or 2nd round, and 3 trips to the NIT (really feast or famine with him). Tom Izzo: 31 wins in 12 straight trips - 2.58 wins/year. A National Championship and 4 Final Fours (including last year's appearance in the Championship game). He does have 3 first round and 1 second round exit sprinkled in there. Jim Calhoun - 42 wins in 16 trips - 2.62 wins/year. @ National Championships and last year's Final Four appearance. 3 times losing in the 1st or 2nd round, 5 NIT appearances, and no post-season play at all in '07. Also, in '96 his team's appearance in the sweet 16 was vacated by the NCAA. Coach K: 71 wins in 25 trips - 2.84 wins/year. 3 National Championships, 10 final fours in all including 4 runner-ups.

There are some others I could have mentioned; Roy has been more successful at Carolina than he was here. Rick Pitino was wildly successful at Kentucky, not as much at Louisville. I guess just illustrating that by breaking it down by wins/appearances isn't the best indicator as to how successful a coach is. Personally, I'm not where you're at, starting over with Coach Self. I believe that a coach puts together a team and prepares them as best he can, but in the tournament its on occasion a crap shoot even for the best coaches.

jhokfan 9 years, 10 months ago

KU is probably the best team in the country but they had one Achilles heel that proved to be fatal. There inability to play up to their potential when facing lesser opponents. We have seen it all year long so it should not come as that big of a surprise. I thought they were outplayed for much of the Lehigh game as well. It’s a bit ironic but I think they had a better chance to beat the best team in the country than to beat Northern Iowa.

sherronisbeast 9 years, 10 months ago

is the team in lawrence arnt u guys supposed to see them get off the bus

Ryan Peck 9 years, 10 months ago

Coulda, woulda, shoulda: Maybe holding Mario Little and Travis Releford both back as redshirts this season was a mistake. We needed another aggressive player who could get to the glass and create on his own. CJ and Elijah failed, and X never quite got to that point and was too dependent on the long-ball. I'm guessing Mario was thinking the same thing as he sobbed on the court after last night's loss.

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

i agree...... think maybe ku DID have a better chance to beat kentucky or west virginia or syracuse or whoever it may be, than they did UNI. look what they did to KSU 3 different times??? i'm also thinking maybe mario was thinking......... if only i had been there to help, maybe it could have been different........ geez, it is just still so sad.........

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

any word on the lady jayhawks at AFH this afternoon??? they were to play at 1.

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

Jaybate-way to pick out fragments of sentences to try to refute my points and reinforce your conclusions. You're right, as usual. (we need an emoticon for sarcasm)

Way to contradict yourself in your own post, also. You say early that you didn't mean to imply that Cal is doing something crooked, then you go to say at least twice that you can count on him doing something crooked.

I'm no fan of Cal & I don't want him at KU. But if you watch their games and our games, especially in the tournament, it's pretty obvious why blue chip players would want to play for Cal.

I don't think HS kids are doing the same kind of analysis of college offensive systems, which ones win championships, which ones are used in the NBA. I don't think many HS blue chip prospects possess your analytical prowess, Jaybate. I think they watch a team go up and down, high flying, high scoring, flashy, and that goes a long way towards where they wanna play. I think that's why so many wanna play for Cal. He may be doing something crooked, he may not. I don't know. I guess you've nailed me Jaybate--I can NOT disprove the RUMORS you've heard.

sherronisbeast 9 years, 10 months ago

who are some new players coming next year

babyjay1 9 years, 10 months ago

And Mizzery may be going down! Can I get an AMEN - LOL!!!

Brian Powell 9 years, 10 months ago

"If you were head coach, what system would you run oxcaljayhawk?"

Looking back on the last few years, I would def. run a system like Mizzou, Kstate, Calipari, etc.

Ride the talent and give them a little freedom to play to their strengths.

And to all the people saying the postseason doesn't matter because we had a good regular season - LOL. It DOES matter how far you get in the postseason when you're #1

I agree with whomever posted that Bucknell , Bradley, and UNI are the norm now, and the 08 champ might be the exception (it was a miracle, remember? not just the shot, but that last 2-3 minutes).

When all that talent ends up busted in the first or 2nd round (for not one random time, like Jaybates' example of some professor talk), but 3 times in the last few years -- that's a systematic fault or weakness.

What is it?

Coaching, style, __ ?

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

As to Self's coaching abilities, you've totally missed my point. Yes, he's a great college coach. There are great high school coaches who aren't ready to coach in college. There are great midmajor coaches who aren't ready to coach at a major. And there are great college coaches who aren't ready for an elite program. You cite his record--yes, it's great. How about his tournament record. Three times out of seven getting outcoached by drastically lower seeds. Regular season success coupled with tournament underachievement might be acceptable at most programs, but not the elite ones. That's why Kentucky moved on from Tubby Smith and UCLA moved on from Steve Lavin. I don't give a shoot about regular season wins if you're going to continually get bounced out of the tourney early. They haven't awarded national championships for regular season wins since the '20's. Sure Bill's a great conference coach. But that seems to be the apex of his potential. Unless he tries something different (because what he's doing obviously didn't work this year.) If you're going to cite his record to prove he's a great coach, then the same figures prove his inadequacy as a tournament coach. I thought he had turned the corner after 08, but now appears to have regressed. 08 now appears to be the anomaly, and early exits, the norm. Unfortunately, that's cemented as Kansas' reputation now--underachieving and early exits. Instead of Mario's shot, the NCAA tournament video montage will now feature NIU celebrating. Try explaining that to a blue chip recruit. "Well, yeah, we usually lose to a lower seed in the tournament..."

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

BP2U- That was me that posted that. And yes, they systematic error is coaching style.

Denny2009 9 years, 10 months ago

Nicely said KULA.

If Michigan State and Ohio St lock up in the Elite 8 I will be pissed. I can't stand the big ten, especially living in MI and now I gotta hear all their big 10 crap.

Brian Powell 9 years, 10 months ago

Only other question I have about Coach's style/plan/etc. is the depth issue. We were supposed to have the deepest team, but halfway through the season he stopped using that advantage and just stuck with his 7 or 8 guys.

I think the talent we've seen here the last few years would be better served in a more uptempo

Just like this season when we went on 14-0 runs. Just like the champ season , esp. vs. North Carolina, or overtime vs. Memphis. Just like...

No one is 'calling for his head' or saying he isn't a great coach overall -- cmon. Stop finger pointing around the forum and declaring who is more of a 'fan' or less of a 'fan'. We can all react however we want :P

Yes, UNI made shots, yes we didn't make ours, yes 'sh__ happens' and random errors happen that only smart made-up professors can describe --- but these three early exits from really talented teams has got to make you think some of these things.

hawkinkansascity 9 years, 10 months ago

I need to find some additional hobbies during basketball season. It's great to be a part of such a passionate fan base and storied program. Although, watching KU's tournament games is not enjoyable. It's too nerveracking. Our teams are consistently underpermforming expectations with a few abberations. This loss stings more than 1992, 1997(although close), 1998, and 2005. There is so much pressure on our players and I wonder if it affects them in these close games. I don't think its coincidence that the year our football team took us on that miracle ride is the year we won it all. The football team took a lot of pressure off the basketball squad because all of our fan energy was not solely on them. The Royals and Chiefs are miserable so there is little else to root for. The K-State & Mizzou fans enjoy watching the games more than we do because they take all of the annual beating and hope for a moment like this.

Regardless, my current feeling is not healthy. It means too much. I'm going to continue being very passionate but at the same time I'm distancing myself. The highs are not worth the lows. I got little enjoyment at the sprint center watching KU win the Big 12 Tournament. All I was thinking about was the tournament. That is not the right attitude because winning that league and conference tournament was a heck of an accomplishment.

I relish the year when we make a surprising and unexpected run in the tourney.

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

Anybody here doubt Tom Izzo will figure out how to beat NIU? I don't. Take notes, Bill.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 10 months ago

In architecture, the written word [emailed if you will] is the coin of the realm. Instructions improperly given can cause, delays, expenses and even liabilty issues. It is important to maintain a calm rational technique. Sometimes, it's good to write a letter and give it 24 hours to simmer, then re-evaluate.

This advice may be appropriate for KU Nation. To say that not winning the National Championship, a title that 64 teams fail at attaining, is the only measure of a season's value and worth, is a conceit of the highest order.

The variables in this winning equation are almost too numerous to mention, most of all, the guys in the other colored uniforms are busting their asses to beat you!!!

You tell me if this sounds like a failed season and that no one in Amwerica would trade places with us: 1] Won 33 games 2] Won game 2000 of the school's illustrious career. 3] Won a conference title. 4] Won a conference tourney title 5] Held #1 ranking for 14 of 18 weeks. 6] Went 5-0 against our two most bitter rivals. 7] Continue to have the longest home winning streak in America. 8] Are now the holder of the longest NCAA appearance streak.

Do you want me to go on? Do you need me to go on? Best Coach, best venue, etc.

The pain and disappointment is huge with this loss. But even that is an indication of the high standarrds we are lucky enough to claim.

Everybody...get over it or get off the bus. I will die a Jayhawk and when they do the autopsy, the blood will flow Crimson and Blue!!!

melrank 9 years, 10 months ago

Sort of odd all the complaining about our tempo and style of play. Thru the weekend we were the 5th highest scoring team in the nation. That seems pretty fast to me.

By the way, all 4 of the teams scoring higher than us are also at home today reading silly posts on their team board. Only Syracuse is left in the Dance out of the top 9 highest scoring teams.

Yep, that up tempo game is a sure fire recipe for the Final Four.

Is anyone who isn't happy with the Coach's "system" or whatever fancy term you want to use willing to throw out a name that would be an improvement to our desperate coaching situation? I don't think Lew is looking but if you've got someone in mind, I'd like to be their agent for a big payday.

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

melrank-I'd swap Turgeon for Self in a second.

ukalltheway 9 years, 10 months ago

Sound like to me all the KU fans are a bunch of whiny babys. If you want to root for a champion come on down to wildcat country because were taking this title. Oh yeah and John Wall is 5 times a better point guard than Sherron Collins....Collins couldnt hold his jock strap!!

ukalltheway 9 years, 10 months ago

Sorry but Kentucky is the best all time. 1. Best Arena 2. Best Fans. 3. Most alltime wins(We got to 2000 wins before you unless you forgot) 4. Most Conference Titles 5. Second most ncaa tourney wins(Will be 1st place after this tourney) 6. More National titles than Kansas 7. Best coach of all time 8. Number of championship.s we will have after this year. 9. Most NCAA Appearances 10. I guess i could go on but since were better at everything there is no need to

melrank 9 years, 10 months ago

KULA - well at least you'll throw someone out there. I guess I'll give it some thought as I'm watching them play Purdue.

Interesting that maybe I've got the answer for you, though. Due to the magic of CBS's odd statistics I just learned that Jamie Dixon and Pittsburg have the longest current streak of advancing past the first round at 9 games. Pretty impressive. Anyone want Jamie Dixon?

Ironically, A&M has the 2nd longest current streak at advancing past the first round at 5. Must not be as easy as we think. Gillespie started that run. Want him or Turg?

Denny2009 9 years, 10 months ago

Jamie Dixon is the man. Howver I know some people out in Chicago that rumors that the Depaul Blue Demons are gunning for Dixon. They are trying to get their program back on their feet, like they were in the late 70s and early 80s.

melrank 9 years, 10 months ago

KULA - just to join the fun I will play the silly game (I'm not into the games on TV as much for some reason LOL) and give you the only name that I can think of that I would consider an even trade for Coach Self.

Tom Izzo

Ironically, his style of play would really piss off the people who want us to run like the wind and press like hell for 40 minutes.

Not K, not Cal, not Donovan, not Boeheim, not Wright, not Calhoun, not Roy, not Howland, not Ben Jacobsen, and not Turg. I guess I'm stubborn, but I'm just not to the point where I think these guys are better for our 'Hawks.

jhokfan 9 years, 10 months ago

ukalltheway:

I would come down to wildcat country but I'd have to remove too many teeth to fit in and I'm not into incest. Thanks for the invite.

melrank 9 years, 10 months ago

Leave Pitt for DePaul?

Unless I'm missing something, they can Gun all they want. I don't see that happening.

And if he did, he's obviously not bright enough to coach at KU.

AsadZ 9 years, 10 months ago

This one hurts more than Bucknel, Bradley, RI, because expectations were so high. This one will take time but time is a big healer.

What about our coaches for next year. With Ballard gone and potential departure of Dooley, there should be some new faces?

How many days till Late Night?

oreadhawk99 9 years, 10 months ago

KULA, Can you tell me why you think Mark Turgeon would be a better coach at KU than Bill Self?

lincase 9 years, 10 months ago

To KUMARINE. You are deploying to Afghanistan for a year, and our thoughts are with you. What a timely reminder that this was, after all, a game. It was painful for all of us, but we have had our hearts broken before and healed. Thanks to Sherron for a great four years. We love your determination.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

KULA - see my previous regarding the successes & failures of some of the elite coaches. Bill Self is still a young coach early in his career at an elite level program. Bill Calhoun's first 7 years at UConn - No championships or Final Fours. 3 trips to the NIT and once didn't play in a post-season tournament. An elite 8, sweet 16, and 2nd round loss. Now he has 2 rings. Billy Donovan's first 7 years at Florida - No championships. 1 trip to the NIT and once didn't play in a post-season tournament. A 1st round loss, 2 2nd round losses, a sweet 16, and a loss in the title game. Now he has 2 rings. Mike Krzyzewski's first 7 years at Duke - No championships. 1 trip to the NIT and twice didn't play in a post-season tournament. 2 2nd round losses, a sweet 16, and a loss in the title game. Now he has 3 rings. Boeheim's first 7 years at Syracuse - No championships. Two trips to the NIT. 3 sweet 16s, a 1st & a 2nd round loss. Now he has a ring. Ben Howland's 7 year career at UCLA - No championships. Twice didn't play in a post-season tournament. 3 Final Fours (including a loss in a title game), a first and a second round loss. Noticing a trend here? Tom Izzo is the exception to this trend, going to the Final Four in his 4th, 5th, & 6th seasons, winning the title once. He had two appearances in the NIT, a sweet 16, and a first round loss.

I know these all aren't "elite" jobs, but these are the elite coaches. In my opinion the elite jobs are Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, Indiana, UCLA, & maybe Duke. Indiana has had so much turnover, and no great success since Bobby Knight left. I'm not even going to entertain the notion of Calisleazy, no championships, no Final Fours. Even Roy Williams had 15 years at an elite school before ever winning a ring.

Still waiting to hear any viable suggestions to replace Self. Turgeon? That's laughable. I love Turgeon, being a former KU alum, and I live in Wichita. He coached Wichita State for 7 years, never advancing to even the championship game of the Valley tournament. At A&M, he has been living off of Billy Gillespie's recruits. Sloan, Roland, Davis, Holmes...all signed (and in every case but Holmes played) for Gillespie. He's in his 3rd year now, and has signed no big time recruits. I don't want to hear the "well, it's A&M" excuse either, because Gillespie got talent there. And if you don't like Self's style of play, you would hate Turgeon's. Jamie Dixon? He's a Ben Howland disciple, who has a mixed track record in a weak Pac-10.

Really all these fair weather fans need to hit the road. Not saying having criticisms makes you fair-weather. But as I have evidenced in an earlier post, the tournament is a crap shoot. The best coaches assemble a team and prepare them all season the best they can for tournament success. Not saying Bill Self did his best coaching job this year, but anyone calling for his job...again still waiting to hear a convincing arguement why anyone else is better.

Denny2009 9 years, 10 months ago

Of course its highly unlikely, however Depaul is located in Chicago, they have all the resources right within reach. Some of the best HS bball in the country is played in Depaul's backyard yet they can't attract any of it. Therefore they need a big name coach to come in. Depaul didnt make the jump to the Big East just to get there butts kicked every year, they were trying to an effort to regain some national exposure. That being said Wainwright was this fired this season and I've heard they are looking to spend some big $ to bring a big name in. However highly unlikely, Depaul has to make some changes, first being playing on campus.

babyjay1 9 years, 10 months ago

OakvilleHawk - thanks for your post. Everyone naming coaches they'd rather have than Self make me sick... And kentucky fan, whoever you are, enjoy what you have but why would a real Jayhawk fan, with the MOST awesome venue, fans and history EVER come to Kentucky... Not in this lifetime would I give up my legacy as a Jayhawk! You can post here all you want because I always find great amusement in fans of other schools coming on here to post. Leads me to think there is some serious envy there. I have never/would never be seen on another teams board. Why bother unless you're trying way too hard to prove something. Rock Chalk forever!!!!

Denny2009 9 years, 10 months ago

that was to melrank by the way..that subject way out of context

kufan89 9 years, 10 months ago

Congrats, Sherron! Thanks! for an amazing 4 years, filled with fantastic memories. I got hella respect for you. I wish you nothing but happiness and great things. Much love! ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK.......Ku!!!

melrank 9 years, 10 months ago

Denny - I'm with ya, but that would be a lateral move for Dixon at the very best. Not a smart career move unles he has some ties to Depaul/Chicago and wants that to be his last stop.

DePaul does need to do make a big hire but it's going to be tough since I really don't see that as a destination job. There's obviously going to be some mid major coaches that will look pretty attractive in a couple of weeks.

Yes, we are off topic some but the complaining was getting old anyway.

Icthehawk - I want to stand up and cheer. Nice post.

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

way to go babyjay1! i agree totally! and to the kentucky fan....... guess you and all your fans can blow all you want to now since we cannot play it on the court now. but that's all it will be is blowing because now we will never really know who the better team was and what john wall really had when he faced the jayhawks!! i wish i could have seen it...... think it would have been fun!! ya know, writing today was great therapy for awhile but now it's just making me mad......... we have a great thing at ku and yes, it was cut short, dramatically and sadly, but i'm still proud to be a jayhawk and would never want to be anything else!!

hawksforlife 9 years, 10 months ago

This game was ridiculous. All of Jayhawk Nation is feeling it now. Sherron, thank you for an amazing career. To the rest of the team, even with this loss, the season was great. Good job coach Self, you can't take away the whole season because of this loss, even though it feels like we should at times. Babyjay I agree, why in the world would we want to disown Self. He's an awesome recruiter and great coach. People need to get over their bad attitudes.
It's good to see the rest of the Big 12 playing well now, cause we owned the conference all season. However, I can't say I'm much in the mood to watch any more of the tournament this year.

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

i'm not really watching anymore either..... it's on but i don't seem to care and i certainly quit filling out my bracket!! it's just such an empty feeling...... NCAA with no KU...... just wasn't supposed to be this way....

Jack Wilson 9 years, 10 months ago

icthawkfan316: You are really clueless. Really. I just saw a minor point in your post worth replying to .. I couldn't care less as to whether it's what you meant or not.

I would take North Carolina's situation over ours. They have won two titles in the last six seasons count this one. They recruit better players. And I would take falling to the NIT for a year for that. I assume after multiple paragraphs that is the question you are asking. I assume. But I've tired of it.

And no, I would rather the Hawks have won that national champion than be right. That's and easy one. But I was right. And I'm sorry I was.

babyjay1 9 years, 10 months ago

This feels like it should end now... enough whining and complaining - move on! Think about football or next year's basketball team, whatever... HCBS will be staying, as he should and I can't wait until it starts again! Thanks to the Jayhawk supporters and one more time, THANK YOU Sherron and team and Coach Self for what was a VERY good season. Add up the stats, and you have to agree. Proud to be a Jayhawk - Rock Chalk all the way :)

RocktoRock 9 years, 10 months ago

Tyshawn Taylor/Elijah Johnson/(Selby, Knight, Lamb?) Tyrel Reed/Brady Morningstar/Royce Woolridge Xavier Henry?/Mario Little/Travis Releford/Terrence Ross? Marcus Morris/Thomas Robinson Cole Aldrich?/Markieff Morris/Jeff Withey

What you guys think? How is next year going to work out?

tstanlick1909 9 years, 10 months ago

RocktoRock,

If Cole and X come back we will steamroll the country, again. Hopefully we play with more hunger next year.

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

i'll be shocked if cole is back but not sure about X and if HE stays, others who have been waiting (like ej, etc) could transfer.....

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

i agree...... hope the team takes NOTHING for granted and is more out to WIN next year!! think that's all we were lacking...... we had it all and more talent and depth than most but just could not bring the intensity and chemistry to sustain all the way!

Robert Brock 9 years, 10 months ago

The core weakness with this KU team started with perimeter defense and ended with a lack of offensive IQ. KU was fortunate enough to have three incredible pressure defenders on that 2008 team in Robinson, Rush and Chalmers - guys that could get in your face, intimidate, and create offense with suffocating defense. You can make the case that the rotation of Collins, Taylor, X, Morningstar and Reed was defensively solid or defensively efficient. You cannot make the case that there are elite pressure defenders in that group when you get beat off the dribble and give up open threes routinely.

When KU is forced into a half court game, like they did Saturday, their low offensive basketball IQ is at times magnified to an alarming extent. They looked flat out ignorant yesterday and that is uncalled for when you have offensive threats like Collins, Aldrich, Morris, Henry, etc. Basketball is a simple sport at its core, and when an offensive set breaks down, too many times you see KU not moving the ball, not setting picks, not moving away from the ball, etc. I would liked to have seen more attack-mode offense out of this team.

I can accept KU losing to a good ball club, but it's hard to accept how they lost Saturday. You cannot come out lethargic and only play 10 minutes of inspired basketball and expect to win. Hand it to UNI - they wanted it more. Self will get KU back to the Final Four and he'll reel in more championships when all is said and done, but let's pump the brake just a bit on the thought KU will simply return to dominance next year. There will be many new faces playing expanded roles and we may need some patience at first. Even with the likely arrival of Selby, there are many question marks to be addressed. It will be fun regardless.

melrank 9 years, 10 months ago

Rock

To save the effort, let's cross off X and Cole and be happy if we end up being wrong.

To put them in position is also difficult so let's group them.

Bigs: Marcus, Markieff, Robinson, Withey - Will Self rotate four? Doubtful. Probably rotate 3 with the 4th getting a few minutes per game. This group is interesting to debate. Unless Withey really develops, we will not have a strong Anchor defender that can clog the middle and block shots ala Cole. This might actually force Self to construct his defense a little differently with less reliance on the half court defense. If Withey becomes a defensive force, we will resemble this year's team and he will play the positon Cole did. If he doesn't become a clog the middle guy, I see the Twins and TRob getting most of the minutes and us changing our stripes a little defensively. Not a change to zone, but more trapping and pressing. Our current defense suffers without a strong shot blocker.

Perimeter: You didn't even include CJ. Geez, where do you start? There is not a single person I can say for sure will be a starter next year. I'd be inclined to say Tyshawn, EJ, and Mario but I could be wrong on all three. Obviously, we are going to have a lot of interchangeable parts and the depth will be outstanding. But, do we have 2 serious scoring options? I'd be concerned about that. Maybe another reason to change our stripes some and force a more up tempo?

melrank 9 years, 10 months ago

Well, Turgeon's not any better than Self. Tongue in cheek.

Kye Clark 9 years, 10 months ago

HighEliteMajor - Clearly it is you who are clueless. The "minor point" you were replying to wasn't even from my post. You replied to something in someone else's post, and I criticized your response. I've tried to tell you to keep up, but clearly that's not possible for you. Sorry if multiple paragraphs has tired you out.

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

a&m choked and they HAD a big lead.....

KURocksChalk 9 years, 10 months ago

I don't think it is wise to be so critical of our players on here. Coaches, that is another story. I believe it may be counterproductive.

As for me the loss hurt, but then again 63 teams or 98.4 % of the teams in the tourney are going to suffer the same fate. We have to remember folks that any one team can lose or win it. I thought we had a little more luck with us, but guess not. We all knew we had weaknesses.

The thing I did not like most about this loss had nothing to do with KU, it was the look of arrogance on the face of the NIU Coach when his team was up big in the first half. He can be high on himself right now, but wait until he is in a high-profile, high pressure job like KU, have the No. 1 Bullseye on your back for most of the season and lets see you win it all, Chump! I like his team, except for their big guy mugged our players yesterday. But their coach, don't care for him. I like ours. I was critical of Coach Self yesterday and I repent. COACH SELF YOU ARE STILL THE GREATEST!

GreyHawker 9 years, 10 months ago

HEM.....sometimes dealing with inferior intellect....you just have to shake your head and walk away........and by the way......I think you're a great fan.........RCJH

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

ukalltheway--do you have such an inferiority complex that you feel the need to go to a losing team's board and gloat? Simply winning isn't enough? Okay--enjoy, Small Person.

AsadZ 9 years, 10 months ago

I agree that 2010 team lacked killer instinct. This could have been due to team chemistry. However, I will not trade Bill Self for any other coach in America. I am surprised to see how KU fans are throwing him under the bus. Look at his career resume. Which other coach can match it. The glory and fame he has brought to KU basketball is second to none. I agree that 2010 lacked killer instinct. This could have been due to team chemistry. I am sure this painful loss will make him even better in the future.

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

should have been a huge rematch with michigan state........ would have loved it and i think the guys WOULD have been UP for that one......

gchawk 9 years, 10 months ago

The one thing that's missing in this entire mess is to find out exactly what your, meaning the entire Jayhawk nation, did that hexed our beloved Hawks yesterday. I personally found 3 separate things I failed to do, starting with not wearing my favorite shirt, plus a couple of unmentionable things. So there, I did it. Now it's time for everyone else to fess up and say what they did, or didn't do, which led to this loss !! I feel better now.

dchon 9 years, 10 months ago

There's more to life than this folks. It's only going to get better, but I understand the pain and frustration because we're all feeling it regardless of how we translate it here on the boards. We only have high expectations for Kansas, nothing less. Some deal with it by looking at the past and analyzing what went wrong and looking for a scapegoat, deserved or not. Initially, that's what I was trying to do. I was blaming it on our team chemistry and trying to compare apples with oranges by comparing this team to the '08 team. Others are dealing with the loss by looking to the future instead - and what a future to witness!! Let's look ahead guys! We're going to be loaded with hungrier, maturing Morris twins! Most teams would be decent with just that. NOT KANSAS! Add a 7-footer Withey who has been practicing against an All-American center all season long and developing under the guidance of Danny effin Manning! He's going to be an undeniable presence coming off the bench! Did I forget to mention the second coming of the MARIO!? YES!!! Mark these words carefully. There will be a reckoning and Mario Little will be the harbinger of doom for every mid-major that opposes us. We're not going to take it anymore! No early exits in 2010-11. If I saw one good thing from last night, they were Mario's tears at the end of the game. He didn't even play a freakin' game! I already feel sorry for the teams that will play us next year. Every tear Mario shed last night are just tears of pity for burning each and every one of these mid-major players' hopes and dreams...

ROCK CHALK!!!

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

i felt really bad for mario...... do you think he was regretting redshirting???

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

icthawkfan316- none of the coaches you mentioned took over an elite program at it's peak. Some of those programs weren't elite til those coaches made them so. That's why I cited the Kentucky/Smith & ULCA/Lavin decisions to move on. Those are the closest parallels to the KU/Self situation. I bet Lew's phone is ringing off the hook from the big $ alums. I don't imagine any of those old timers are too happy with this season. I'm sure sometime in the next few weeks Lew will have a long sitdown with Bill about his coaching style and ability to win games in the tournament. That's what he was brought here to do--win games in the tournament. I like Turgeon b/c he's won everywhere he went with a lot less talent. If he could recruit for Kansas, he'd probably become a great recruiter (just like Bill Self did). And I like that Turg is a Kansas/ Larry Brown guy. Larry's still the best coach KU's had in my lifetime.

melrank--of course Izzo would never leave MSU. I'm not looking to run & press for the sake of running & pressing. I'm just talking about using your speed & athleticism advantage to beat a bunch of guys from Northern Iowa.

Mike Kendall 9 years, 10 months ago

I know this is kind of late---but, OakvilleJHawk, thanks for your last post. You are describing me to a "T." Babyjay1 filled in the blanks for me, too! Thanks, Babyjay1. Rock Chalk Jayhawk Nation---there will be better days!

dchon 9 years, 10 months ago

That's speculation. I'm one of those that think mario felt just as bad as marcus or kieff. They all contributed time and effort regardless of playing time.

mariofan11 9 years, 10 months ago

I have donated all my KU stuff to the goodwill in my area. I hope Cole and X go to the league. This was the worst loss in NCAA tournament history. The 33 wins mean nothing when you get bounced in the 2nd round of the tournament by the 3rd biggest school in the state of Iowa.

WAY TO GO GUYS!! 10 pts for Sherron. NICE!!

RocktoRock 9 years, 10 months ago

melrank, my bad on CJ being left out. What do you think will happen with the 2010 recruiting class with Cole and X possibly leaving?

Mike Kendall 9 years, 10 months ago

A&M did choke on the big hot dog today, didn't they? The Aggies should have won that game. What a bummer!

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

i hope you are right about mario...... i don't want him to ever regret what he did and i'm very very ready to see him lead the team next year!! him and the twins!! RCJH!

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

do you think cj will stay if x leaves us?? i thought it might be both or neither.

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

Tough loss for A&M,but they were the underdog. Purdue played some clampdown D in their 17-2 run. Remember, Purdue was a 2 seed til last week, and a early season final four pick. No shame in this loss for A&M. Not like KU.

FairgroveJayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

I'm going to mariofan11's area goodwill to get all his old stuff!!!!

jrbill67 9 years, 10 months ago

Congratulations to the coaching staff and the team for another great year. That's the good news. The bad news is they struggled all year and played at the pace of the competition. They had enough talent, experience, and depth to beat any team by a bunch. They did not. Sherron, as great as he was, played poorly the last few games, and like RR in '08 he should've been replaced in this game. He should've been pulled early like Marcus was vs. Lehigh and got his butt chewed off. Marcus came back with the game of his life. Collins was the leader of this team and he played the poorest game of his career in the 2nd round as a #1 overall seed vs.an inferior opponent. X and Cole need another year in college and Sherron's stock has taken a considerable hit. Had Marcus & Markieff not improved so much, year on year, this year would've been a disaster as far as KU standards go.

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

guess we should have all seen it coming.... and maybe we did.... just hard to admit it. i said over and over again that they were exhausting to watch and they were going to kill me this year. had no idea just how bad it was really going to hurt....... far too soon...

FairgroveJayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

I think KU had just as good a chance to win it all as anyone else. And I believe most brackets on this website had KU winning, there was only one I found that didn't. Good teams have bad days and in the tournament there is little room for error. I'm sure every national champion has had close calls before and during the tournament.

If winning the national championship were the criteria of a worthy program then every program would be worthless.

FairgroveJayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Coach Self said many times there had not been a game when everyone played to their potential this season. I would bet he is wondering why he was not able to get them to that level. Last year KU exceeded expectations, achieved a 'team' potential and Self was a genius. He's still a genius.

babyjay1 9 years, 10 months ago

mariofan are you serious? Definitely not a true Jayhawk fan, but an imposter and someone who just follows the team who happens to be winning at the moment. A true fan follows thru the good and the bad, even the ugly sometimes! Wow - I love being a Jayhawk! Rock Chalk forever!!!!!!

lovemyhawks 9 years, 10 months ago

right on babyjay1........ we have definitely been on the same page all day!!

FairgroveJayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

lovemyhawks - I don't know about CJ but I would stay. I think it would be a dream come true; no need for money and living the dream in Lawrence.

SCHNBALL 9 years, 10 months ago

While most all of the regular post crew on this site disagreed with me at the time, how many of you would of liked to have one more senior on our team this year. How many did Northern Iowa have? If Self was going to redshirt anyone, it should have been Ej and Thomas Robinson, I hope we have learned at least that much from this bitter loss.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 10 months ago

So KU fans don't hang your heads to low because what's better than a team loaded with talent and a great head coach, is one that is pissed off.

****Um, I think we were VERY LIKELY pretty pissed off after the '05 season as well when to me we were embarrased even far moreso by losing to Patriot League team Bucknell.

YET WE STILL LOST TO BRADLEY IN THE FIRST ROUND IN '06!!!!

Theutus 9 years, 10 months ago

Just got back home.... I wish I could say that I was surprised by the loss.... But I'm honestly not. I've been saying all season long that this team had major issues. We play down to our opponents and only play 5-10 minutes of real quality basketball per game. Too many times we relied on being apathetic and lazy and then playing the last 5 minutes to come back and win.....

Well, it finally bit us in the ace. Here's to looking forward to next season, because I think we'll be a better team overall.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 10 months ago

Ask yourselves this: Was this season (tournament) the norm or an anomoly? Which was 2008?

***I don't really consider either one to be the norm or the anomaly. It seems like the norm for us really has been Sweet 16 / Elite 8.

oreadhawk99 9 years, 10 months ago

KULA - Still high on Turgeon. If you were a Texas A&M fan right now, I'm sure you'd be complaining about him like you are Self. Turgeon is not even half as good a coach as Self. He was 130-90 in 7 years at Wichita St., a mid major and has done nothing impressive at A&M.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 10 months ago

oxcaljayhawk (anonymous) says… HighElite is absolutely right when he says it's the coach's choice on the style of play. And Self's style creates slow, clunky games where lesser opponents are able to hang around. Even if NI had been able to break the press a few times in the 1st half, had we kept running they would've been out of gas by the last 10 minutes of the 2nd.

*I know you're feeling negative but now you're just being a bit ridiculously anti-Self. Look, if the team had the quick perimeter D from the guards like the '08 team did we'd have more of an up-tempo Defense-to-Offense kind of game. The fact of the matter is we never did!!! So when you say that guys like Selby, Lamb, Knight, etc. wouldn't want to come here and couldn't help, etc., I think you're full of sh.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 10 months ago

oxcaljayhawk (anonymous) says… HighElite is absolutely right when he says it's the coach's choice on the style of play. And Self's style creates slow, clunky games where lesser opponents are able to hang around. Even if NI had been able to break the press a few times in the 1st half, had we kept running they would've been out of gas by the last 10 minutes of the 2nd.

*I know you're feeling negative but now you're just being a bit ridiculously anti-Self. Look, if the team had the quick perimeter D from the guards like the '08 team did we'd have more of an up-tempo Defense-to-Offense kind of game. The fact of the matter is we never did!!! So when you say that guys like Selby, Lamb, Knight, etc. wouldn't want to come here and couldn't help, etc., I think you're full of sh.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 10 months ago

****I read about half the posts on here and this is THE BEST one I saw:

"Does anyone remember the Roy Williams era? We played a "run and gun" fast break offense his entire career here, and fielded plenty of teams with exceptional talent and never won a championship with that style of play either. To say that Bill Self is a horrible coach is just ridiculous!

A coach can prepare his team for a game until he's blue in the face, call the perfect plays, etc., but it comes down to players executing, period! A coach can not instill "fire" in a player. It's like motivation, it comes from within oneself.

Let me ask all the people who are calling for Bill Self's head, who do you think would be a better coach at KU? Who? You want coach Cal, a guy that can't run an ethical program?"

****For those saying Bill Self is "in over his head". Wasn't part of hiring him because he was the antithesis of Roy?!?!?!

jaybate 9 years, 10 months ago

"Next: Question Marks for 2011 Season"

Thinking next right now is necessary to get everyone out of their funks and patently stupid notions of Self being less than a wonderful coach, and because life just does go on.

(Note: Before pushing on, let us take a moment and pause to pay respects to the loss of touch with reality of KULA and aliases cascading like lemmings into their orgiastic oblivion of unreality.) :-)

Coach Self may already be on a plane to see a recruit, because he is tireless at getting better. But for his sake, I hope he has a nice dinner with the team, complimenting them on their efforts and accomplishments, then he and his family go half way around the world and sit on a beach for a week, or two, then he gets back to recruiting.

Thinking next is not as easy this off season as last.

Thinking next has to anticipate not having two All Americans who were impact players, and X who down the stretch began to look like 3/4s of what he was hyped up to be.

Thinking next means trying to anticipate what kind of game we will play next year without knowing what the cat drags in from recruiting.

Thinking next also means anticipating who is leaving.

The Cole factor...

He's gone. With knee and lung problems, and without a great returning PG, he needs to jump for sure, unless his stock has fallen below 15, which it may have, because of his inability to dominate any opposing bigs. Still, he's an amazing big in his own unique way. He just has a very limited offensive game, when all is said and done, or at least insufficient capacity to overcome double and triple teaming.

The X and CJ factor...

IMHO, X is gone and CJ with him, so I'm going to think next with this expectation, but with a caveat: CJ could probably play at least 20 minutes, or be a starter at the 1 or 2, if he wanted to bust his butt to learn to defend. He wanted to play for Cal, so its clear that defense is not high on his list and so it is logical to infer that he may not have that kind of work ethic. Self will do what is best for KU, just as CJ warns he will do for himself. If Self can't land Selby, having CJ is what is best for KU. But if I'm Self,and have a long term contract, and X was not good enough to take this year's team to the next level, and CJ is injury prone, I'm going to tell them to commit publicly within the next two weeks, or I'm going to cut them both loose publicly to make a statement to all the undecideds.

jaybate 9 years, 10 months ago

X and CJ had their chances to take KU to the next level and it turned out they were not the right pieces. This is the most basic fact that persons are overlooking in their existential suffering about the KU loss to Northern Iowa. X was good, but not great. CJ shot well, but couldn't defend a lick and then was injured the rest of the time. X and CJ could be big helps to next year's team, but for them to make it a contender they would have a lot of getting better to do. I would like to see them stay, but then they treat their KU relationship entirely conditionally and so that is how Self will treat them...conditionally. Too bad for KU, but that's life in this tough business apparently. It is also why the program cannot afford the Henry's approach, except conditionally.

Here is the harsh truth about X and CJ: X and CJ had only one function for Self, because of the conditional way they chose to come to KU. They had to be the extra pieces to produce a ring this season. They weren't the solution for whatever reason. X could not step up, when Cole and Sherron bogged down, not just against Northern Iowa, but several times this season. X tended to play his best when one, two or all three of Sherron, Marcus, and Cole were clicking. There were only a couple games where X alone carried the team on his back with his trey shooting even for a stretch. He never beasted. And he never played a great game against great competition at his position. X, as I said yesterday, is likely to go down in the record books as the KU player who might have been a great one had he stayed. But not much more. And he iced his fate when he disappeared for 3/4s of the game against Northern Iowa and only played well down the stretch. He was, of course, not alone in that performance, but because of his own ability and desire to go to the NBA as soon as they will have him, he can and will only be judged on this season. X would have to come back to be anything more than a footnote in KU basketball history. Unless he stays, he is the guy who was not as good as his hype, not the missing piece in building a champion, but rather the guy who might have become a great player had he stayed. I would expect him to be good in the pros one day soon, if he gets a chance to develop there, but the pros are a crap shoot that way. All we can say for sure about X is that he proved he is a D1 trinitizer par excellence, who defended adequately, was turning into an aggressive rebounder, and couldn't penetrate against any team with any size inside, or at his position.

jaybate 9 years, 10 months ago

Regarding CJ, between injuries he could shoot but not defend. When Self created a slot for CJ to be Sherron's and Tyshawn's back up, he couldn't deliver at either position defensively.

So: X and CJ are no longer superstars in high demand at KU. As good as they might be, and they are both capable of at least good, they are incidental to the program beyond this season. If they want to commit early Self will take them, of course, and make them part of a nucleus to build around, but they are just two more players now, not the missing pieces. They probably don't realize this yet, because they seem very focused on their opportunities, as they should be, but they soon will.

Thinking next, therefore, is for the time being limited to thinking about the performances of the players coming back without assuming next year's team will be another down the middle team, or still other kind of a team. We just don't know which axis will be emphasized until we see who is recruited.

The Point...

Who wants to let the season ride on Elijah Johnson, after his showing this year? To put 5-star Elijah's first season in perspective, Sherron Collins forced his way onto the floor as a freshman, despite great second, and third year players like Mario Chalmers and Russell Robinson being there. Aaron Miles started for a Final Four team in his freshman season, if I recall correctly. Darnell Valentine ruled the point from his freshman season. Even Tyshawn, who was not a great outside threat, and shaky on off ball defense, could step in and start as a freshman. Inference: For Elijah not even to have been able to get 5 minutes a game indicates more than being a victim of numbers. Elijah Johnson is not in the category of any of the guys mentioned, or he would have played at least 5-10 minutes a game his first year to spell a frequently exhausted Sherron, and a struggling Tyshawn. The likelihood for Elijah is that he will be more like Russell Robinson, Tyrel and Brady than a star point guard. The word is glue. Russell and Tyrel each played some point guard, but really became glue men. RR even ran the point frequently for a period of time, until a true impact PG showed up in Sherron that took at least half the time. So what do we do next at the PG?

jaybate 9 years, 10 months ago

Best case scenario: Self lands Selby and he is instantly great. Probability of landing him: 33%. Probability of him being instantly reliable and great: 5%.

Middle case scenario: Self lands Selby and he and Elijah and Tyshawn and maybe even Tyrel split the PG duties, though this never works very well.

Worst case scenario: Self doesn't land a PG and Elijah, Tyshawn and Tyrel committee the point. I call this a worst case scenario, because each player has draw backs as a PG. Elijah doesn't appear to pot the triceratop well and defense is at best going to be an acquired skill. Tyshawn is not a take charge, Type A personality with unwavering focus and ferocity in the face of great challenge. Tyrel is not very athletic in a slicing, penetrating, whirling dervish sort of way.

On the other hand, Self is the master of masking and if anyone could finesse his way through a season with these three guys and get to the 16, it would be Bill Self...if he has some other NBA types at other slots.

The Two...

To be Self's two guard, you have to provide defense, glue and either get to the rim game, or trifectation, and wich depends on what the player at the 3 can provide, and whether a post man is dominant or just a place holder guarding a post.

Tyshawn backslid the last three games and was never comfortable as a glue man. He wants to be an impact player, but only when there is not too much body contact.

Brady never adjusted to back-up glue.

jaybate 9 years, 10 months ago

Neither played badly. Neither made key TOs down the stretch and that is why both got a lot of minutes. And I am not criticising them for not scoring: they weren't supposed to.

But neither played the kind of inspired defense, nor the kind of glue each was capable of. Neither really got the ball into Marcus, or Cole, consistently down the stretch. Neither really locked down, nor provided exceptional help defense and this last is my central complaint.

Tyshawn has never been very good at off ball defense and at help defense--onball being his great forte--but Brady just two months ago was a consummate off ball glue defender, who could also defend on ball. What happened, Brady? I have always been your staunchest defender, because of your defense and glue. But take away great defense, and you are not bringing a big enough basket of fried chicken to the picnic.

Frankly, Tyrel played better than Tyshawn and Brady down the stretch. Self has to look long and hard now at moving Tyrel ahead of both of them, or maybe moving Tyrel fully to the point. even though Tyrel lacks the kind of lightening quickness that makes impact plays at the point (or the 2). Fact is, Tyrel seems presently the only one of the three capable of:

a) getting better day after day for a season;

b) of steady, low TO play;

c) of defending guys like Denis Clemente inside and outside and still being able to help defend and trifectate (Tyrel just is more versatile and adaptable to more styles of play than Tyshawn, and Brady);

d) of draining the trey under pressure;

e) of dribbling both right and left;

f) of going strong to the rim under control (Tyshawn is world class at this except that he can't do it when the muscling starts; Brady lacks the body control once airborne); and

g) of being capable of the ferocity and tenacity that the point requires.

jaybate 9 years, 10 months ago

Guys who look like point guards are a dime a dozen, but guys who play like point guards, when the chips are down, when the intimidation starts, are rare as good teeth in a meth addict. Tyrel is one feisty gym rat. Like it or not, as of today, Tyrel is the only guard that really got better and played well down the stretch. But KU seriously needs an athletic 2 that can shoot to go with Tyrel in case Tyshawn and Brady cannot turn it around, and because Tyrel and Brady graduate after the 2011 season.

Tyshawn, who will be a junior, may have had the sophomore blues. He has greatness written all over him and he shows flashes of it, but he just isn't doing it yet and his season long struggle with becoming glue has not been encouraging. He might get better. But he is a huge question mark. He doesn't need to play international ball at this juncture. What he needs to do is work on his trey, and muscle up about 15 pounds. Were he to do both, and see a sports psychologist about learning to modulate broad and narrow focus, he would easily be a lottery pick next year. If he does just keeps playing, he's plateaued too low.

Releford coming off a red shirt could be just what the doctor ordered at the 2, but he may be needed to split time at the 3, if Little cannot drain the trey, and if one more big does not emerge to let Marcus play some 3, where he could be awesome.

Enter Woolridge. Coming in, he does not seem likely to be that two, but I am really not knowledgeable of him, so maybe he will be a surprise. Further, after comparing the joy of Cole and Sherron wanting to be at KU vs. the pragmatic feeling of X and CJ only wanting to be here conditionally, Woolridge is already high on my list, because he really wants to be at KU. Guys who really love the program and Self seem to do pretty well over time, whether or not they become super stars.

IMHO, Brandon Knight is the ideal 2 we are looking for. We sure could use him, but again, we could compete for the Big Eight title without him.

Regardless, how do we land Knight with so many players at the 2? I don't know.

The 3...

KU would be very strong with Mario Little and Travis Releford at the three and Brady and Tyrel available for trifectation.

jaybate 9 years, 10 months ago

Marcus is the wild card at the three. The last third of the season he began to show the kind of moves at the 4 that have apparently made Self think Marcus could play the 3 all along. Marcus might well start the season at 3, if Withey and TRob were to develop in the off season, and if Kieff takes over the 4 and if Self lands a project 5 with some ability to fill a bit early on at the 5.. That's a lot of ifs. Again X is assumed OAD.

The Post...

TRob is a big question mark. He never once this season played remotely as well as the Twins played their first seasons on their worst nights. The Twins have done very well starting mid year this past season and appear to form the nucleus of next year's team; that is, the difference makers we will likely play through much of the time. Can we logically expect that level of play from TRob? Or is TRob the next Quintrel Thomas? It is hard for me to say at this time. Because TRob showed nano second flashes of brilliance I believe TRob stays and will get minutes at KU next year. Self does not appear to have a line on a dominant 5 recruit.

Withey is an even bigger question mark. Can Withey bulk up enough to play bang bang ball? Withey looks like a great prospect to me, but he must have been lacking something pretty significant, or Self would have played him instead of TRob this season. TRob just did not show that much in his times on the floor.

Where do we find a great post man next season, or at least a big, lug of a post man that can hit 75% of his FTs like those guys on Northern Iowa, and push opposing 5s and 4s 15-20 feet from the basket for quite a bit of the time? If Withey ate right and worked around the clock with Hudy, he might pull it off.

The Conditioning Factor...

Hudy is widely and rightfully praised for adding muscle and spring to players. Cardio-vascular does not seem something she has pushed the envelope on. KU players spent too much of the season too tired. Either players with better motors are needed, or, if the players are going to be asked to carry so much weight, Self is going to have to adapt to a 9-10 man roster and play everyone 20 minutes a game.

jaybate 9 years, 10 months ago

The Coaching Factor...

Ballard is leaving. Expected. Does Mike Lee get added back?

The bigger question is: are Joe Dooley and Kurtis Townsend making Self happy? Only Self knows. Either Self, or Dooley, was having troubles with Xs and Os in one regard: KU could rarely get out of the blocks fast. A lot of persons have attributed the slow starts to the players, but I would argue the slow starts derived from a philosophy of play and from a lack of keen insight into what opponents were going to do and how to beat them at it. Self clearly prefers to take what they give us and so KU is prone to explore an opponent like a prize fighter feeling another fighter out. But for some reason, KU's opponents were able to frequently put KU behind early. This should not happen, when you've got the better players and only randomly half the time when talent is nearly equal. Self many need more brain power on the bench with him. Kurtis seemed a much greater presence on the bench down the stretch. Maybe it was just that there was a lull in recruiting. But there seemed to be some kind of shift in the relationship of Self to Dooley. Maybe Dooley's career advancement issues stressed the relationship.

So: that's a first cut.

Everyone else can swing for the fences now.

Rock Chalk!

SASNAKman 9 years, 10 months ago

Stop criticizing and critiquing players. Tyrel is much more athletic than he is given credit for. Yes, he 's mainly a shooter right now, but he could fill Sherron's shoes next year, regardless of whether Bill lands a PG. The Morris Brothers will be a force next season, and hopefully Withey can step in if Aldrich leaves. I can see Cole staying though. He was the Academic All-American of the year. I'm guessing he would value a degree, even if he won't need it to make a living. I don't expect X to stay. He is like Darrell Arthur. Everyone wants another year, but maybe college isn't for him. It's not for everyone.

But in three years, hopefully we get Perry Ellis. I played against him in seventh grade, and he was dominant then, and he's the two time Gatorade Player of the Year in Kansas.... As a sophomore!! Unheard of. I'm just sayin, I'd love to see him in a Kansas uniform.

On a different note. I would like to salute Sherron at this time because he's been a warrior for us, and very impactful. I'm sure kids are all around modeling their game after him.. Good luck in the big leagues man. I hope to someday shake the hand that was a man reason in the 2008 National Championship

bbeckum 9 years, 10 months ago

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RocktoRock 9 years, 10 months ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEEGg_... Please tell me you would not want this athlete on the floor jaybate as a freshmen. His athleticism is through the ceiling. He is spectacular running the point, fast, has handles, and he brings intensity and passion to every game. We need Selby for 2010-2011.

gardenjay 9 years, 10 months ago

Wow. Good find RocktoRock. This Selby kid would be fun to watch on any team really, so everyone wins wherever he goes.

Somewhere up there is a poster who referred to NIU's 'Goofy Giant' who shot two threes in this latest epic fall-to-pieces. Well, the 'goofy giant' beat us - so I guess that is how you deal with this, using disrespect. What a great tool to have - not.

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

Hey Jaybate, one more "thinking next" for you and Bill Self: is my system working in the tournament? If you take 08 out of the mix, in which most agree Self didn't enforce his offensive system but just rolled the ball out to a group of supertalented players (although I think this year's squad had more overall talent), his system isn't working in the tournament. Even if you leave 08 in the mix, the stats don't look good. Five times bowing out to a lower seed, three of them drastically lower. And this year being one of the all time biggest upsets/flops in tournament history. Good luck landing one of the blue chip recruits while explaining that. And too bad Bill didn't use the regular season, with the largest average margin of victory in the country, getting some of that (possibly) NBA talent on his bench game ready. Would've been nice to have another 7 footer to throw out there Saturday, wouldn't it? But, we run an 8 man rotation, and that's what we do. You future NBAers are gonna have to just sit there. What a waste of a year for these guys. They might as well be freshmen coming in next year. But, Bill does what he does, and he doesn't change. Bucknell, Bradley, NIU--who will be next year's Cinderella?

jhokfan 9 years, 10 months ago

schnball:

I agree with your point. Having upperclassmen can not be overstated. Probably why we won it in 2008. Look at the three early departures during Self’s tenure and we were beat not by NBA caliber players but by juniors and seniors. I’ll take a team of competent juniors and seniors over a group of one and done lottery picks any day.

hawksrock0434 9 years, 10 months ago

Sherron collins, all ku fans owe it to you. You were one of the only ones who actually attended all four years at KU. We have nothing to complain about, sure we didn't win a national title but you have been leading us through games all year and if your a real Ku fan then you would thank sherron for all the hard work he put in at kansas. Without him we wouldn't have won games like, Memphis, @ k-state, Cornell, both games against A&M and many more Love you sherron and thank you for everything you gave Kansas University

KULA 9 years, 10 months ago

Oh, Jaybate, I just read your last section (I can rarely make it thru all of them, haha) but it's good see we agree that Self needs work on his offensive scheme. Yes, opponents rarely match up with KU athletically, but always seem to stay close. And yes, I, too blame the slow starts on Self and not the players. I don't have much problem with Self's D, except their lack of pressing less athletic teams. But his offense is definitely NOT getting the job done.

lee3022 9 years, 10 months ago

No negativism from me. I appreciate the passionate support from KU fans but I am focusing on the terrific season with another Big IX regular season championship and another Big IX tournament championship in the toughest conference in the country. Single game elimination tournaments are never a sure bet and rarely bring the team with the best season record the championship. They are exciting for the fans at all levels and that translates into money for top facilities and top coaches. We are blessed with both.

Sherron Collins - a magnificent season and a wonderful career at KU. You constantly sacrificed your own interests for the team's success. It shows the depth of character we have grown to love and the NBA team that gets you will be blessed indeed as we have been blessed for four great years. Thank you.

For Cole and Xavier and other team members with eligibility left: thank you as well. I know you will make the best decision for your own hearts and whatever it is, best success and great appreciation for your efforts here. For all that decide to return, this is still a championship team in the making. I look forward to next year with eager anticipation.

For Coach Self and the entire staff a standing applause. Amazing, first of all for the class you show every year throughout your program, and second for the recruiting, teaching and development, practice and game preparation and management, and public perception you provide. It is an honor to follow and support you. Thank you each one.

For the entire University at every level in the Athletic Department and the administration and the academic schools. I have never been ashamed in 48 years to say "I am a Jayhawk". My degree has opened any doors I wished opened to me and my training and experience at KU has formed me greatly for success. In the following years the continued academic and athletic (in that order) excellence evidenced has continued to take KU to the very top of public education. Thank you.

Martin Rosenblum 9 years, 10 months ago

lee3022 -

I think you meant Big XII not Big IX. Or, maybe you're not counting Mizz, KSU and another school and coming up with the Big 9.

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