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Thursday, November 19, 2009

Not-so-gentle reign

Former, current players offer look at Mangino’s style

Kansas head coach Mark Mangino scans his offense during a timeout in the Jayhawks’ game against Oklahoma on Oct. 24 at Memorial Stadium. Mangino is under investigation for allegedly poking a player.

Kansas head coach Mark Mangino scans his offense during a timeout in the Jayhawks’ game against Oklahoma on Oct. 24 at Memorial Stadium. Mangino is under investigation for allegedly poking a player.

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For Kansas University football coach Mark Mangino, the hits just keep on coming.

On the heels of Tuesday’s launching of an internal investigation into the actions of the Jayhawks’ eighth-year coach, nearly a dozen former and current players spoke with the Journal-World on Wednesday about Mangino, some describing a well-intentioned disciplinarian but many others painting a picture of a man who was controlling, abusive and oftentimes kept players in an extended state of fear.

Among the allegations made by players interviewed by the Journal-World included:

Near-daily verbal attacks on players, in some instances involving personal matters that athletes felt went well beyond the boundaries of a player-coach relationship.

• Verbal abuse of assistant coaches, including a 2008 incident in which Mangino threatened the job of defensive coordinator Clint Bowen.

• Failing to disclose player injuries to the detriment of the team’s athletes.

• Players who left the program at least in part because of the negative environment they were subjected to.

• An incident during the 2006 season in which, according to former linebacker Joe Mortensen, Mangino put his hands on then-running backs coach Earle Mosley after one of the team’s running backs had failed to pick up a blitz during a game. Mosley later left the program and now coaches running backs for the New York Sentinels of the United Football League.

The investigation, prompted by the concerns of senior linebacker Arist Wright, who approached athletic director Lew Perkins after Mangino allegedly poked him in the chest several weeks ago, is being headed by associate athletic director for risk management Lori Williams, and will seek out the thoughts and experiences of current players and those with ties to the program.

What they’ll find, some former players say, are those who harbor a lingering distaste for the coach and his volatile temperament.

“If Lew Perkins called me up and asked me what I thought they should do,” said Mortensen, who served as a team captain under Mangino, “I’d be like ‘Let him go.’”

The ugly side

The recent allegations, players say, have been a long time coming.

Even as the program’s collective stock rose, improving steadily after Mangino arrived in 2002 and peaking in 2007 with a 12-1 season that included a victory over Virginia Tech in the Orange Bowl, those close to the program say behind-the-scenes issues were a constant source of anguish.

In his first few weeks on campus, for instance, Mortensen — a native of Oakland, Calif. — received a minor-in-possession of alcohol citation while caught drinking outside “The Hawk”.

Figuring it was the right thing to do, the player went to Mangino to inform him of the situation.

During their meeting, Mangino allegedly swore and threatened to revoke Mortensen’s scholarship, calling him a “bum” and telling the player that “he’ll send me back to Oakland and I’ll be drinking out of a brown paper bag the rest of my life.”

Two former players, meanwhile, confirmed a Rivals.com report that during a practice confrontation with former receiver Raymond Brown, whose brother had recently been shot and hospitalized, Mangino told the player, “Don’t yes sir me, or I will send you back to St. Louis so you can get shot with your homies.”

“What I would say is sometimes his temper came off in a way that wasn’t constructive, which is where you run into trouble as a coach,” said former fullback Austine Nwabuisi. “He was just trying to be ugly as a coach, as opposed to being constructive or motivational.”

Things stretched far beyond a lack of tact, however.

Mortensen indicated he suffered a knee injury as a result of disciplinary measures taken after he chose to spend a week at home following the Orange Bowl instead of returning to Lawrence to undergo MCL surgery on his right knee.

When he returned to Lawrence, Mortensen says, he was subjected to three months of early-morning drills that involved putting significant pressure on his good leg. Eventually, he tore his left ACL, an injury he attributes to the amount of strain he was forced to put onto the leg as punishment.

In some instances, former receiver Dexton Fields said, assistant coaches would take it upon themselves to cuss players out in an effort to “keep the big man off of our backs,” and Mortensen described the rare occasions Mangino was forced to miss practice as some of the most enjoyable evenings of the season.

“Those practices were the smoothest, nicest, funnest practices,” Mortensen said. “No one’s getting cussed at, no one’s feeling the pressure, so we’re just out there having fun, playing football, learning and doing it.”

Fields also said that outgoing players left having developed no real relationship with the coach.

“Could we go talk to him (now)? Who knows?” said Fields. “Who knows who’s even tried. We go up to the facilities and we talk to the trainers and the strength coach, but I don’t know if too many people go into his office to talk.”

The motivational side

Not all of the former players interviewed remember things the same way.

Former tight end Lyonel Anderson calls Mangino “my guy”, describing how the coach brought him on as an intern last season while the player finished his degree. He says he never witnessed a line being crossed, that he felt there was always a motivational aspect in Mangino’s approach and that he cherished his time at Kansas.

“Listen, whether it’s at Kansas, whether it’s at Alabama, anywhere, the best teams are going to be run the same way,” Anderson said. “You got to have thick skin to play this game. I just think sometimes people are a little too soft.”

Former running back Brandon McAnderson reiterated that sentiment, saying that, while at times intense, the coach’s gruff demeanor usually served a purpose.

“As an 18-year old, I wasn’t ready to be challenged,” McAnderson said. “(Coaches) would say things to me and I’d be like ‘Wow, I think I want to go home.’ And then when I started to respond to those challenges, I started to see results. So every time they challenged me, I came back stronger. And that’s what his discipline is about.”

A handful of those interviewed, meanwhile, insisted that Mangino’s approach is no different than that of other Div.-I college coaches.

Some pointed to the coach’s aggressive nature, in fact, as the main reason the program — coming off six straight losing seasons before Mangino took over in 2002 — was able to transform into a perennial bowl contender, gaining bowl eligibility in five of the past seven seasons.

“Hey, Nick Saban ain’t down there baking cookies for guys in Alabama,” said Anderson. “I saw a game two weeks ago, he almost broke a headset and started barking in a guy’s face on national TV. That looked worse to me than (the poking incident) sounds, and that’s in front of a billion people.”

Others aren’t so sure.

Mortensen, now a linebacker with the UFL’s Sentinels, says he routinely trades war stories with current teammates about the various episodes they were subjected to during their college days.

He’s says he’s still waiting for someone to outdo him.

“We’re talking, and I’m telling them stories, and they’re telling me stories about their coaches,” Mortensen said. “And I’m winning. I win every single day.”

Still, others argue whether reports of harsh treatment are reason enough to dismiss the coach — who, with a career record of 50-46, is two victories shy of tying A.R. Kennedy’s school record — and on Wednesday, current receiver Kerry Meier went as far as to imply that firing Mangino would not be in the program’s best interest.

“What coach Mangino’s doing and what he’s done throughout his career here, I don’t think you can really fault the guy for being upset at (this) situation,” said Meier. “He’s taken this program to new and great heights that I don’t think anybody ever imagined. And if they’re looking to bring somebody in to try and turn this program around again, it’s going to be a tough, tough challenge to try and find somebody to do that.”

The future

So now what?

With two games remaining in a 5-5 season that has been viewed largely as a disappointment, the team travels to Austin, Texas, on Saturday night for a matchup with the No. 3 Longhorns, and, at the moment, Mangino is expected to be on the sidelines.

The coach Wednesday declined to discuss the specific incident involving Wright, but reiterated that he has done nothing inappropriate and that he doesn’t believe his intensity to be unlike that of other Big 12 coaches.

“If people have given up on me in certain quarters, so be it,” he said. “I can’t control that. But what I can control is being with these kids and preparing them for Texas, and that’s what I’m looking forward to.”

For the moment, that’s the plan. As of Wednesday evening, a “Mangino Mafia” T-shirt still hung in the window of Joe College, a popular downtown clothing store. Players prepared for what figures to be a daunting test against an unbeaten Texas team, and a town awaited the resolution to a situation that appears to be growing murkier by the day.

Comments

jaygun 5 years, 5 months ago

Hey, anyone got Terry Allen's number? He seemed like a pretty nice guy.

boomrsoonr26 5 years, 5 months ago

Back to bottom dwelling for this program.

Nothing like your AD pushing all this information out to the media mid-season. Most logical ADs would wait until the end of the season, now Lew.

If I were a current player I would be outraged at the timing. Some of my teammates might begin to quit on Mangino, and if they quit on him, their quitting on me and my efforts. Now I might get killed by Texas b/c someone on the team is upset and blows off their assignment.

The weak few always attempt to bring down the accomplishments of the strong many, and I am positive that the entire staff and players arent giving up on Mangino now. Yet those whom are giving up are now a liability to the health of the team.

From a University whom acts like they are better than this, its very surprising. This is something that Baylor would do!

jhawkjunkie 5 years, 5 months ago

I'm betting that after this investigation, Lew Perkins will probably not fire Mangino, but try something that Indiana did with Bobby Knight and try to have a Zero Tolerence Policy on Head Coach Mangino. How that goes after that is anybody's guess.

RCJ GO KU

doolindalton 5 years, 5 months ago

What this comes down to is that Reesing had a bad season, the team starts losing, and like magic all these discontented players who all received full ride scholarships worth approximately $100,000 appear like magic to bad mouth their coach. And Mangino is charged with the unmentionable crime of poking some kid from Texas in the chest. Horse patuky. Perkins, if you want to fire Mangino because you don't like him or he is too fat or whatever, then have the boys to fire him. Don't destroy the program by putting on this charade of an "investigation."

agraves 5 years, 5 months ago

Let's say all this comes out plus more unknown information...and lew decides to keep Mangino. What is it going to do to our recruiting? Parents are not going to want to send their kid to play for a guy who is going to attack him. And it does not matter if any of this is true or not...most minds have already covicted mangino by now especially the minds of the recruits and their parents. I do not know if I have heard anything that deems mangino to be fired but I think it might be inevitable. Lews job is make sure the program is sustainable and keeping mangino might not do that because without recruits and new players coming in...there is no program to sustain! Again I could be wrong and there could be no rippling effect of this but it sure seems Kansas will dropping off interest lists of future recruits!

Kent Kossoy 5 years, 5 months ago

I say play only freshmen. Let them get the experience. Cut the softies loose. What a bunch of pansies. Unfortunately I can't say what I am really thinking. If these players had played the game instead of having fun, we would be 9-1 or 8-2 and none of this garbage would be in print. Maybe we can then steal someone elses coach. Sort of reminds me of UNC players dumping Matt Doherty to get Roy. And I thought that we were classier than UNC.

IowaJayhawker 5 years, 5 months ago

You can call the players "pansies" or "candy asses" or whatever. But there is a fine line between constructive criticism and inappropriateness.

“Don’t yes sir me, or I will send you back to St. Louis so you can get shot with your homies.” Are you kidding me? The kids brother had just been shot!

Also, calling Mortenson a pansy or a candy ass, that kid is far from it.

Now Mangino doesn't have to be a players friend or be close with them, but there can be a level of respect of which it sounds not many former players have for him. You look at the best football coaches in America, Urban Meyer/ Pete Carroll, these guys are respected by their players and their players play hard for them.

Either way, you have to look at this as a coherent whole. There are widespread allegations of verbal abuse of players and coaches, physical abuse, the parking department fiasco, and other accounts of Mangino being an a--hole. From a performance perspective, look at his Big 12 record. Outside of one amazing year, absolutely nothing. Only winning records against Missouri (which is awesome to say) and Iowa State (not so impressive) is pathetic.

Yes, Mangino has made this program respectable at some level. But there is a way to motivate and encourage these kids, and there is a way to make them hate you and quit on you. Mangino has obviously caused this team to do the latter.

DCJayhawk0208 5 years, 5 months ago

I'm with IowaJayhawker on this. There seems to be a pattern of much more than a couple players being whiny. The Oread Boom Kings post has more detail about what actually led to this: http://oreadboomkings.barkingcarnival.com/2009/11/18/sweet-lew-just-might-be-an-evil-genius/

Apparently a player with a significant knee injury has been forced to come back early and may be doing more damage to his knee.

It's too bad, because Mangino is a football genius, but this type of abuse, and that's what it is, needs to be stopped.

Tribehawk 5 years, 5 months ago

I'm amazed at how many fans are willing to throw our kids under a bus to protect a middle-aged bully with obvious psychological problems simply because he's shown a modicum of success on the football field. Joe Mortensen is a hard-core, tough as nails, SOB. He's not a "pansy," he's not a "candy-ass." He was a great jayhawk who blew out both his legs for the program. Joe has no sour grapes--he was a starter, so he has no axe to grind regarding playing time. If Joe says Mangino crossed the line and should be fired, along with everything else I've heard, I say he has to go, regardless of his success or lack of success on the football field.

troutsee 5 years, 5 months ago

I'll bet the search ended a few days ago.

Cimhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Oh........Coach talked naughty to me........DooolinDalton couldn't agree more. Reesing has had a horrible year, along with the rest of the whiners and are not men enough to take it....let's play the blame game. Lew, you're a pathetic loser....wait until after the season....except it serves YOUR purpose better to do it now.....JERK!!!!

Michael Leiker 5 years, 5 months ago

This is freaking unreal. Mortensen gets a MIP and he gets berated by his coach, OH MY GOD THE WORLD MUST BE COMING TO AN END. This is so GD laughable it makes me sick. Non-Story Dugan. FYI, last year Bowen was so incompetent that he needed to know where he stood, in front of the whole team or not. Did Mangino not get the most out of Joe Mortensen???? And some other coach who's now in the fricking UFL doesn't like Mangino...method to the madness maybe??? Doesn't it save the athletic department money if a guy quits instead of having to fire him?

I guess my main point is that all of these circumstances you cannot take out of the context that they happened in, and you have to look at the kids situation that they are in at the time.

Has anybody took the time to ever really watch Arist Wright over the last 4 years? I do not know him personally, but from his body language if that kid does not have a horrible attitude I would be shocked.

How is not disclosing injuries a detriment to the athletes? This is football right, if a dude knows you have a banged up right shoulder and they have a chance to pound you into the ground just a bit harder they're going to do it, correct? Maybe, just maybe Mangino is protecting his players here!?!?!

If you're going to write an opinion article do it in an editorial column. And all of this has gotten started by a football coach poking some kid in the chest? Where are our rival's fans calling us synonyms to female genitalia?

Joel Hood 5 years, 5 months ago

I love some of you message board tough guys who act like these D1 football players are just a bunch of crybabies. Have you actually played football beyond high school? Jr. High? Pop Warner? Play catch with your dad? There is a line that a coach should not cross when pushing his players to the limit.

Physical contact typically is no big deal, because a good coach will balance that with pat on the back. If you poke a guy in the chest who benches 350 lbs, what kind of damage can you do? But, unrestrained psychological bullying is simply detrimental to everyone. If you don’t understand the difference between a disciplinarian and a bully, then you really don’t have the slightest understanding of leadership or sports psychology. Good leaders know how to motivate beyond berating players and assistants. You can only kick a horse so many times before he just lies there.

Personally, I have no problem with disciplinarians. But, if MM was abusive to the extent that former players describe, perhaps he did cross the line. If he made a habit of berating assistant coaches in front of players (threatening their jobs) then he has lost perspective and an investigation is clearly necessary.

klineisanazi 5 years, 5 months ago

I am really disappointed that Perkins started this investigation now, right in the middle of this dream season. With the big win against Nebraska behind them, KU is expected to give UT a game Saturday at Austin, which will be hosting College Game Dayfor what might be a preview of the Big 12 Championship. Even if KU loses, they can still win the North outright with only some unfinished business against MU at Arrowhead. But now, with Perkins' stunt, the whole season is at risk. Oh, wait...never mind.

IowaJayhawker 5 years, 5 months ago

Soobawls, as a conservative, your argument about the liberal agenda didn't really make sense.

This has nothing to do with an overall social issue of gang violence. That is just one example of Mangino crossing the line.

So I guess you think that the example given on ESPN of the player whose father was an alcoholic was just about the broader issue of alcoholism in society? If you haven't seen that account, a player had disclosed to the team that his father was an alcoholic, Mangino, in a team meeting, said something along the lines of "do you want to become an alcoholic like your father?" But of course it was probably the liberals babying of alcoholics and not being tough on them....

KuKain 5 years, 5 months ago

This one is the best.....

During their meeting, Mangino allegedly swore and threatened to revoke Mortensen’s scholarship, calling him a “bum” and telling the player that “he’ll send me back to Oakland and I’ll be drinking out of a brown paper bag the rest of my life.”

Seriously?!?!? He's complaining about this? WHHAAAAAA, I got caught drinking. I'm in clear violation of the rules and coach called me a bum, waaaaaaaaa. I'm all in for team name change. The KU Kandiass Hawks. We need a poll.

Sean Rodger 5 years, 5 months ago

This kind of stuff sure didn't come out on the way to a 12-1 season and an Orange Bowl victory. Mangino must be right - start losing and these things come out.

Hmmm....Mangino right?

Absolutely! I love what he's done with the program. I for one don't want to go back to the Terry Allen Years of football. We're on tv about every game - other teams actually have to game plan against KU - and the atmosphere on gameday is spectacular.

If you can find one coach in America that hasn't done what Mangino has done I will show you a coach that is a perrenial loser (or for those of you that can't spell..."looser").

Football is a tough-emotional game - I guess if we want to dress all of our football players in tu-tu's and ballet shoes and coddle them I guess we'll just go back to being a doormat.

If Mangino does get fired (which I hope doesn't happen) - give him another year. If not - go after Tommy Tubberville. That guy was a winner at Auburn (until he switched his offense to the spread).

Tribehawk 5 years, 5 months ago

I was wondering when they were going to bring in Rivera. If not for everything else reported, I suspect Mangino will be fired for what happened to Rivera.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4669621

DocBean 5 years, 5 months ago

The people that keep saying if we cut Mangino loose then we'll be irrelevant again are crazy.

WE ARE SITTING AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BIG XII THIS YEAR! We may lose 7 games in a row to finish the season. what's more irrelevant then that? Mangino's record against Big XII opponents: 23 - 39!!!

This coach lost the respect of his team, and they don't want to play for him Guess what, that's a BIG part of coaching! It's also a big part of recruiting.

He's gone. The damage is done.

Jeffery Barrett 5 years, 5 months ago

soobawls, Cimhawk and kiki1958 have obviously never played football. Mangino has crossed the line, many times it seems. The only former players who have not downplayed Mangino's actions are Anderson and McAnderson, who are still in or around the program. Calling some of these players soft or candy asses is just plain stupid! Some of you need to also read this article, http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4669621

Phoggin_Loud 5 years, 5 months ago

Meatsauce, Just be glad that your coach, Bo Pelini, doesn't have anger issues....oh, wait...nevermind.

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

The idiots on here condoning Mangino's behavior must be the same idiots that constantly have the police at their house because they beat their wife and son at night. Seriously these kids made it to D1 football, not by being pansies. If some these idiots on here would put the beer can down and get up off the couch for some fresh air they might realize that this isn't the 50's anymore and you can't just go around belittling the players that chose to come to this great university. I remember when half of Lawrence cried because Roy left, guess what, we're way better off with Bill. In five years we will be saying the same thing about our next coach.

KUbsee69 5 years, 5 months ago

Somebody already said this a day or two ago, but this is just like George Patton slapping the cowards again.

GSP Jr purposely used excessive profanity to "get their attention", "make it stick" and to offset an otherwise self-perceived unmanly voice. Maybe, MM thinks some of this is necessary for those, or similar reasons.

Personally, I'd take Kerry's & Todd's opinions over those of most others. They both seem to be supportive of Coach M.

One other thing ... Jason Whitlock says Mangino should go. Inherently, my position must be 180 degrees from anything that jerk says, so I must say, keep Coach M.

mwilliam 5 years, 5 months ago

Klineisanazi, that is hilarious. You hit the nail on the head.

DocBean 5 years, 5 months ago

So many of you keep blaming soft players. Well, that might be true.

However, who recruited those players? Who coached those players? Who's job is it to turn them into Champions? These players came to KU because they respected Mangino's program. Their leaving KU without any respect for the man.

Who's fault is that? They are 1-5 in Big XII play, and sitting at the bottom of the league. Who's fault is that?

He's failing these kids that have complained off the field. and he's failing as a coach on the field. He has no shot at recruiting to KU at a respectable level after this.

KEITHMILES05 5 years, 5 months ago

All I can say is who the hell would have thought THIS pile of crap would arrive now?

This is a sad, sad, sad, time for KU football. I feel for MM and also am angry Lew Perkins put all this out in the public to see/hear/view. This is no way to run a business. Shame on you Lew. You need to keep this private and deal with it like a man.

BCRavenJHawkfan 5 years, 5 months ago

There will be people on both sides of this "Bobby Knight/Woody Hayes now Mangino" moment.

But do know this. For those players that felt abused, belittled, beat down, criticized, etc., please for the sake of the United States of America do NOT enter the military, because it would be clear that your drill sargent, fellow soldiers and America can not count on you to rise to the occasion.

shelleysue 5 years, 5 months ago

I don't think MM crossed the line in berating Mortenson for the MIP. I'm sure he saw his potential and didn't want him to totally screw things up. If he did indeed punish Mortenson and cause a serious injury that is very bad. However - Mortenson should have come forward THEN! If MM was physically abusing him and risking his long term well being, why didn't he come forward at the time? Or his parents? As a parent If someone had done that to my kid, college football or not, I would have gone to Lawrence and taken hell with me. I understand the opportunity of playing at KU and not wanting to give that up, but if you're injured beyond repair you aren't going to play anyway.

If he did indeed made the comment about sending the kid back to St Louis - now that is pretty unforgivable. He should have given him the support to help get him through a tough time. That's another responsibility of coaching.

What we have here are a bunch of people posting things on these boards pretending that they have inside information when they don't and making a campfire into a forest fire. We also have current and former players with some supporting MM and some not. That's exactly what you will find when asking former players about any coach.

Lew knew darn well what would happen when he took this whole mess public. If he had wanted to keep Mangino he would have kept in all under wraps like he's apparently done for 8 years based on all the accusations now suddenly flying around. Lew didn't hire Mangino and I don't know that MM has ever truly been in Lew's good graces which would have to be a tremendous stress on coach. Maybe that's the reason for his demeanor. Who knows.

I would also like to know - in that 8 years of knowing these things - most especially after the parking ticket incident - did Lew talk to MM, offer/suggest counseling, give him an ultimatum to get his temper under control or risk being let go?

86finalfour 5 years, 5 months ago

The timing of this investigation is so transparent. I interpret it as the University saying the abuse was OK when we were winning but now it's not since we're losing.

Thanks Lew for embarrassing the university and trashing Mangino for 600,000 bones. Low of all low blows.

Brian Skelly 5 years, 5 months ago

If we're 7-3 right now instead of 5-5 this isnt even a blip on the radar. It's not. We all know that. Im not saying thats right (or wrong), but its so and we all know it.

The reality is Mangino is done. Im not for that by the way. Weather its this year or next he's done. This issue may or may not boil over again. But it will always be there now. I didnt think this was news, there has always been stories of his temper.

I find it interesting how different some of these stories come across though. You know... like it really does depend on the individual on how they are going to take it. It sounds pretty ugly some of the stuff he's saying to some of these kids. Some kids will brush it off knowing he's just trying to toughen them up. Some will be lost from that point on. If anything his problem is not knowing when to do that and when not to.

I for one dont want him gone, but if we dont go bowling this year he'll be close to being done anyway. And if we get a repeat performance next year he'll be gone for sure as well.

For better or worse, when you have expectations (not unrealistic either mind you) of at least MAKING a bowl game and fail to do so the leash is going to be shortened. As well it should be. Having the best QB in KU history and 2 of the top 15 (if not 10) receivers in the country shouldnt result in 7 straight losses. Unfortunately, its going to.

Fruity22 5 years, 5 months ago

Lew probably pushed this out to the media so it would be less of a controversy when he let Mangino go. He is as shrewd a business man as you will find. Some will say the search for a new coach has already started, well if Lew is a good AD he had a short list before this season even started. You could say wait for the season to end before you let all this out of the bag but by then everybody else would have hired their new coach and you'd be left with a smaller pool to choose from. That is why it behooves you to name a new coach immediately after the season or in some cases before it is over.

Right wrong or indifferent you pretty much have no choice but to let him go now. The bad press alone is going to decimate recruiting, Lew knows this and that is why he leaked all of it to the media. It has all been orchestrated by Mr. Perkins. There has never been any love loss between the two and now Lew will get his man. I'm interested to see who it is.

grandpa 5 years, 5 months ago

troutsee, I will say it again "You are a smart person">jayhawkerjoe. You have some good sensible comments. As I said in some of my earlier posts:"Just stay tuned"We are just at the tip of the iceberg. Some of you Mangino supporters are in for a big shock , so grab ahold of your rear ends for an informative ride!!!!

gojbirds 5 years, 5 months ago

hello dirty laundry...never good. If this is Lew's way of pushing him out I think it sucks. I'm not sticking up for HCMM and I am certainly on the fence as to whether he should stay or go, but letting it all hang out there coming off of a 5 game losing streak is weak at best. If HCMM is a gonner then, Lew has done hurt the recruiting of a new HC. If he stays, recruiting players might have just gotten tougher.

That said, I think the program can survive and flourish. We've got a promising RB and Pick has shown some potential. Our O-Line is young and we have a lot of young talent across the board on the defense.

Jonathan Allison 5 years, 5 months ago

I haven't heard or ready anything from Todd Reesing that sounds remotely like supporting Coach Mangino. Reesing has said things like, "Lew Perkins just doing what he needs to do." I have had the feeling from some of Todd's comments that he doesn't want to say anything bad about Coach Mangino so he's following the rule of Thumper's daddy, "if you can't say nothin' good, then don't say nothin at all." It seems to me that Reesing is among the ranks of players who don't like Coach very much right now.

hawkone 5 years, 5 months ago

Is it a co-incidence that all the players speaking out against Mangino were benched at various times for disciplinary reasons? I think not. Maybe we should call J.R. Giddens and see if he has any negative comments about Bill Self. Nice reporting and digging for dirt LJW. This whole ordeal looks a whole lot like a lynching to me due to a bad season and angry boosters. I don't recall any allegations of player abuse ever coming from KSU or OU while he was a coach there. I don't recall him threatening to send anyone back to their homeys at KSU and that my friends was a team full of thugs. Coach is right when he said that when your not winning every one dislikes someting your doing.

niemoth 5 years, 5 months ago

This sounds like some more baby players and their parents who need to hear Hawkins speech at Colorado. "This is the Big 12" Go play intramurals if you can't be thick skinned and take some verbal abuse so that next time you don't make the same mistake and become a better player. "He poked me in the chest." That doesn't sound like a football player playing in one of the best conferences in the country.

John Percival 5 years, 5 months ago

While I don't support "abusing" players, bottom line is Lew wants to make a big hire since he didn't hire MM or BS. Now he has his chance. The timing of this stinks and is embarrassing to school & program. He better get it right.

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

I guess Mangino should have been winning, then him being an abuser would have never come out.

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

Why did Mangino recruit such babies? It still goes back to the big guy.

DoubleDD 5 years, 5 months ago

I really don't think this is that big of an issue. It's just some little fire storm that Lew has created to weasle out of some contract money that would be owed Magino when he gets fired. Look you can be mean as you want to in this sport as long as you win games. Lets face it Magino has lost his mojoe or good assissant coaches one of the two. I look back on this season and KU should have only 1 loss, and that would be to OU. In Every loss KU has been outcoached 1 way or another. Look at the NU game when we made a conscience effort to run the ball the offense began to move. When we stopped so did the offense. KU hasn't been losing these games becuase the other teams were better, but because our head coach gets out coached. His game plan is so transparent that he blinded to the fact every team in the big 12 knows what he's going to do, and don't even get me started by his halftime adjustments. I've always liked Magino, but he cost us a special year. This team was ready to claim the North even with the tough schdule. I know players have to play and coaches have to coach, but if your coaches (like generals) don't bring a good plan of attack to the battlefield then if all things are equal you'll lose every time.

Christopher Hauser 5 years, 5 months ago

So, this is a bit off of the subject but my H.S. football coach (I wont name any names). Got so fired up in the locker room before a game that he pooped his pants in the middle of his pregame rant. He had to stop in the middle of it and go to the bathroom and when he came back out he had a different pair of pants on. What got me about it was that we were playing a road game and he had brought an extra pair of pants? I have always wondered if it had happened to him before. He was a pretty intense guy and I remember numerous times watching others get yelled at and face mask pulling. There were even pokes in the chest. I never once thought that he was being abusive, just trying to get through to us. I am not saying HCMM is right or wrong in what he has done. Different coaches have different motivation styles and if this is his, than dont play for him if you have a problem with it. What I wonder is if HCMM style of motivation has had an adverse effect on this team this year and if it is a direct link to a 5 game losing streak? I dont think there will ever be an answer to that question. If you are buying a car you better do some research on it to make sure it is what you really want because you are going to be driving it for a while!

Christopher Hauser 5 years, 5 months ago

In my opinion this is all just an excuse to get rid of HCMM and go after someone else for Lew. Lets remember that Lew did not hire HCMM. The question is, if this is indeed the case, who does Lew have in mind?

86finalfour 5 years, 5 months ago

Question of the day: If it wasn't a problem when they were winning, why is it a problem now?

justinryman 5 years, 5 months ago

I wonder if Rich Rodriquez will move to Lawerence? Oh wait he mistreats his players too.

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

Cause they are not wining. Who wants a coach that is a loser and a jerk.

Jeffery Barrett 5 years, 5 months ago

hawkone, comparing JR Giddens to Joe Mortensen and tothers is just plain stupid. Bad analogy, dumb a**!!!

John Sheehan 5 years, 5 months ago

What if we beat Texas? Not saying we have much of a chance, but if we do, will people jump back on the Manginowagon?

If Lew has TCU Coach in his back pocket, fine...but if it's the next "player's coach" Terry Allen - type, we're going back to being just a basketball school.

4quarters 5 years, 5 months ago

I agree that there are different styles of coaching, but for all of you preaching about this obvious, undeniable, uncrossable line where were your comments and observations when the team went 12-1?

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

Perkins would have been run out of town if he brought this up in 07, look at the reaction now when Mangino has 5 wins and should be fired simply based on his team's horrible performances.

Beating Texas didn't help Prince keep his job, don't see how it will help out the Big Guy.

Christopher Hauser 5 years, 5 months ago

4quarters- I agree with you as long as a coach is winning they can do no wrong and for that everyone is guilty. The simple fact is that if you are a player you better do your research when you are looking for a coach to play for just like buying a car. I can say without a doubt that this would not be an issue if we were winning and it also would not have been an issue 30 yrs ago regardless of winning or losing. My opinion, video games have made these last couple of generations soft!

kranny 5 years, 5 months ago

If the personal attacks are taking place then he needs to go. It's plain BS to refer to someone's brother getting shot as motivation to get you to play football. I remember that simply the threat of being benched was motivation enough. As much as I loathe KState, I don't see Snyder motivating his team by referring to "going back to your homies." I think it's great what has happened to KU football under Mangino, but I think it's no accident that the 5 loses are happening. I think it's a direct result of Mangino's tactics. If that's the case, our team is not going to fare any better than this year dispite the talent we bring in. Happy trails coach, thanks for the memories. He's gone folks.

shelleysue 5 years, 5 months ago

86finalfour - I have been trying to get that answer for two days. Yes I understand the winning part but morally when it's wrong it's wrong.

TCU coach wouldn't leave even for KSU and he's a KSU guy. Doubt he'd come to Lawrence.

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

Look Mangino could have maybe brought us 5 to 7 wins a year for the next ten years. Great a bunch of meaningless bowls, how fun. While NU, MU, and now KSU would continue to beat up on the fat guy. If you really want a football team you should want more than that, Perkins could potentially get us a gem of a coach that can do a better job recruiting, bringing us even more wins, under a coach that is actually respected by his players (it seems alot of you do not require a coach that is respected by his players).

Of course there is a very small chance that we could take a step back to the TA era, however, with the money we will be willing to spend on a coach and our new facilities, we will be at least as good if not better than we have been.

Everyone looks to an OB year that we didn't even win the North title, MU could have easily gone to the OB and then what, nobody would be supporting the big guy right now.

grandpa 5 years, 5 months ago

As I said before "Stay Tuned" " "This just the tip of the iceberg"A lot of you above people do not know what in the H--- you are talking about

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

Grandpa, you keep saying that and I believe you, however, would you mind throwing us a bone and give us a clue as to what is to come.

Benjamin Piehler 5 years, 5 months ago

heard* lol. if you are wondering where; i was in the grocery store in lawrence and two middle aged gentlemen were discussing how the decision on mangino had already been made but they wouldnt announce the firing till thursday. also mentioned working at the university.

not sure what to think, but thats what i heard.

DocBean 5 years, 5 months ago

Grunny said it would be today too. We'll see.

Whenever it is he won't be back next year. I just hope Lew can find a guy that's worthy of the cash he'll be willing to spend.

stravinsky 5 years, 5 months ago

I'm really curious why half of this board is convinced that this is a giant Lew Perkins conspiracy and that he is the one releasing everything.

From what I've read, Lew initiated the investigation -- which is his JOB. If a player brings a complaint of abuse from coaches, I'd bet the AD is legally liable if he doesn't show diligence in at least checking it out.

And all the negative things are from former players who thought Mangino crossed the line. Somehow Lew Perkins is responsible for these players being disgruntled enough to talk to the media? Please. Be realistic.

If he's publicly humiliating players, verbally abusing them, etc., especially if this is more than has already mentioned, he's probably crossing the line. There is a difference between being hard-nosed and being abusive.

One question: I keep seeing Rivera mentioned, but I can't seem to see what exactly it is that Mangino did to Rivera that's being alluded to. Rivera said he won't talk about it publicly, Crawford mentioned he felt Mangino went to far -- anyone with details?

Kent Wells 5 years, 5 months ago

If he crossed the line or not. If he is right or wrong. Doesn't matter. This turkey is cooked. Just in time for the holidays.

Although I doubt there is a firing today. We would have heard something in terms of a press conference. No one can keep a secret. Don't forget, we all would know before any official statement would be made.

Granpa: pony up some details or stop!

I heard Coach Fam would be named interim coach. I'm sure he's warm and fuzzy with players. Probably never ever yelled at one ever.

d_prowess 5 years, 5 months ago

After Mangino is fired (and like it or not, he will be), maybe there will be a reliving of the Al Bohl moment. Think about it, Mangino standing in his driveway and saying how he was like a dove that Lew decided to crush with his hand.
Ok, so maybe not, but was there a more surreal moment in KU athletics history than that press conference!?!

pmohr13 5 years, 5 months ago

Coach Fam as interim. Right before the MU game? Now that is Man-genius. That is it, Coach Fam is the one that came up with all these absurd allegations in hopes to fire up the team for the MU game.

Chris Bruning 5 years, 5 months ago

SEE YA MANGINO!!!! so shocking and dissappointing

hdhntr 5 years, 5 months ago

saidtomuch urcorrect, MU should have gone to the OB in 07, beat ku hd to hd and was #1 when they lost to a former #1 in polls OU, had two losses both to OU but did win north and was in CC game, extra game extra loss. Only sweet Lew's under the table deal with OB to guarantee revenue is why they were chosen. Best thing was it was all air, Lew didn't deliver!

so the much talked about 07 season against the little sisters of the poor, wasn't really that big a deal. They lost to the only top team they played, in their big rivalry game on the biggest saturday night game on national tv of the year.

so the huge ones only big season? just smoke and mirrors and didn't mean much. now all ku's rivals hope he stays around, as all this talk of abusive coaching and pressuring players to come back from injuries too soon? what top player would want to come to this program, especially when they see the huge dude in their parents living room? he has been emasculated.

suttonku 5 years, 5 months ago

ESPN is saying that its possible that Lew may bring back Randy Edsall, yes the UCONN coach that he hired when he was at UCONN. I would not like that hire at all. I think we gotta get someone who has connections to the south, where a ton of the talent is.

gardenjay 5 years, 5 months ago

Well, at least sports bring out the worst in people so we can all see them. Did anyone catch the New Mexico-Brigham Young women's soccer match this week? You probably wouldn't believe the violence in that game. One of the players showed a total lack of empathy while almost breaking someone's neck. However, no coaches are mentioned as culpable in that game, and the 'main protagonist', a player, was suspended by the coach after the game (good job coach! way to show the way!).

This seems ironic to me, because I doubt her coach would have objected to her play if she had gotten away with it. Coaches should be trying to take their kids and making better young women and men out of them. For the KU men, that includes the basketball team, LOL. They can win all they want, but I want to see them volunteering and helping out around the campus.

MitchumMan 5 years, 5 months ago

Just looked at Rivals.com. It appears that KU has already lost 5 recruits so far because of all of this. Great! Just freakin great!!

Underdog777 5 years, 5 months ago

The question is who does Lew have to replace Mangino? Lew may use this opportunity to bring in his own guy. A guy that looks like a winner, can take the program to the next level and can help Lew get alumni to give more. Also, since the program is at a higher level now this is the best time to make a move.

MitchumMan 5 years, 5 months ago

Scratch that! They just weren't showing up for some reason. Refreshed the page and they were there. Weird! Either way...I don't like how our best recruits are talking to the coaches. I see a lot of doubt in their eyes.

jlauf 5 years, 5 months ago

It constantly amazing me how tough people are on the internet. Calling these guys soft just seems absurd to me. While all of them may not be tough as nails, you all know good and well that some of these guys can take a lot. I think too many people are also seeing this as a case of the end justifying the means. Physical, mental and psychological abuse has no place anywhere. A good game or even season is not worth the after effects.

jhokfan 5 years, 5 months ago

Whether he crossed the line or not, if you lose the support of your players it will be difficult to win. Players should not be afraid of their coach, they should want to win for him in the same way that children want to please their parents. Let’s see how they perform for their head coach in their final two games.

Fruity22 5 years, 5 months ago

Stravinsky, notice how it says Arist Wright approached Perkins several weeks ago and we are not hearing about it until this week. Perkins could have started this investigation a month ago or waited another two weeks. Whenever he did it he probably could have kept it more secrative if he wanted to. The Nebraska game was the tipping point, Lew had seen enough.

The X players talking are just part of the snowball effect. One guy breaks his silence and everybody else jumps on board. Media outlets are getting in touch with these guys and they feel that it is now safe to talk. Not sure Lew knew what it would blow up into but he has to have heard whispers about his football coach's treatment of his players.

Prophet 5 years, 5 months ago

The decision and announcement should be expected today. AD doesn't have any choice since this went public. He should have a replacement before the season ends. KU will pay the next Coach very well if they are to get a very credible name which will ensure minimal impact to ticket sales and recruiting. In fact I would think to get this new coach KU will have to pay him near Bill Self's salary. Renovations, suites and seats, don't come cheap and either does a BCS Football Program.

Karen Mansfield-Stewart 5 years, 5 months ago

Poking a football player in the chest doesn't sound like much of a fireable offence to me. My coach would routinely smack my helmeted head and yell explitives at me if I messed up. This isn't the debate team, its a contact sport! Sounds like Lew simply doesn't like Mangino, more than Mangino is way out of bounds.

Ryan Shelton 5 years, 5 months ago

I spent two years as a h.s. assistant and can assure everyone that players and coaches must have tough skin to survive football. This is obviously why I got out. Friday nights became something to dread because we didn't have the players to compete and the HC took all his frustrations out on the players and coaches. It came to a head my second year and I couldn't take it anymore. It was changing me as a person.

I had an opportunity to be a student assistant at the small-college level before that and got to see a nurturing father-figure of a coach who never swore and taught lessons constructively to his players and taught us to do the same. He took a football program that didn't win a game and in two years we won our conference.

Now obviously this isn't the norm, but it just goes to show that a coach doesn't have to be a jerk to motivate his players. Unfortunately it created unreal expectations for me and those two years at the h.s. level really soured me and I haven't returned yet.

I do appreciate the old school methods like Mangino's becuase they work, but there is a line to be drawn in the sand sometimes. Coaches won't be perfect and will screw up from time to time, which is why we should give Mangino a break and hope he learns to be more constructive and less explosive (saying this report is accurate.)

Kent Wells 5 years, 5 months ago

Sutton:

Does it really matter if the coach has ties to the south or not? Great players come from all over. Just get 4 stars on the payroll and kick butt. Besides, I'm sure there would be an assistant to recruit with ties to the south. Or did you mean Mexico? (I make a da joke).

Just get a quality coach. And then go give the hoops team some payback.

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

I hope your prophesying cause that is exactly what it is gonna take. Nobody said the road to becoming a true BCS program would be easy.

John Sheehan 5 years, 5 months ago

If Lew hires UCONN coach, then Lew is on the hot seat and we may return to mediocrity. UCONN is 4-5 in a weak conference.

On the other side if he hires TCU coach with that winning tradition and a pipeline to Texas recruits, we may be able to move to the "next level".

And don't think just b/c we were 12-1 two years, that Mangino ever really got us to that upper level of the Big XII. Don't get me wrong, it was awesome, but we were a little bit of a fraud. Didn't play the big boys from the South that year and played another fraud of a VT team in the Orange Bowl.

jhawkd 5 years, 5 months ago

Just heard a rumor (I know its just a rumor) that MM will be gone by 5 tonight. TCU head coach Gary Patterson, Dick Jauron, and the Alabama DC are on the list for HC position!!

suttonku 5 years, 5 months ago

kuwells,

Ties to the south are important and you want a coach that will make a splash so we can keep the recruits we have...Randy Edsall from UCONN will not do the trick...I know Lew has a list of coaches that he will contact to interview for the job and Im sure Edsall is on that list but I hope he doesnt get the job. I would not be opposed to Brent Venables taking over. I would like to get someone from a big school with deep ties to the south or at least have assistants with ties to the south. Yes it's important to have ties to the south, very important. Im from Texas and I can tell you that there are amazingly gifted players from Texas that get overlooked. Having ties will help KU land the big recruits from the south. Obviously good players come from everywhere but stats dont lie that most of the big time talent is coming from Texas.

jhokfan 5 years, 5 months ago

Here’s my Christmas wish list.

  1. KU beats Mizzou next week and consoles KU fans.

  2. Investigation fails to find any incriminating evidence and Mark’s job is spared.

  3. Mark enrolls in an anger management class during the off season and learns to discipline players in a more constructive manner.

  4. Mark has bypass surgery preventing him from becoming a victim of heart disease.

  5. The Kale Pick era kicks off the 2010 season. Even with all the fecal matter flying, I can’t wait.

niemoth 5 years, 5 months ago

hdhntr, While Mizzou did deserve a bcs bowl in 07, so did KU. It was Illinois that didn't and only got chosen by the Rose to keep a big 10/pac 10 matchup. The 3 teams from a conference rule is ridiculous. KU did beat the then #3 in the BCS VT that year, so didn't lose to every top team they played. And winning on the road at OSU that year on national prime time was also a good win. That OSU team had the same talent they have had the past couple of years. We finished that year with a 1st place vote in the AP and were the only 1-loss bcs team, and beating VT proved we deserved to be there, and it wasn't all smoke and mirrors of a year. Obviously we could play with Mizzou when we beat essentially that same team from 07 last year in 08.

easyfive 5 years, 5 months ago

Lew, go ask Bill Young if he would come be the head man here!

suttonku 5 years, 5 months ago

jhok,

Do you really think Kale Pick will start next season at QB? I dont. We are redshirting a nice young QB named Jordan Webb right now. They say hes like a young Reesing. His stats from high school were amazing and he has had plenty of time in the system. Pick will have a battle to be the starter next season.

okiedave 5 years, 5 months ago

I am beginnig to believe that "JayhawkInTexas" and "Lighthawk" might be right. Perhaps the handling of the player incident before the Colorado game was the straw that broke the camel's back for some players.

niemoth 5 years, 5 months ago

Pick will be the starter next year. That is why Mangino is working him in so much this year. He knows this year is down and is getting Pick some snaps now so he has some experience for next year. I believe Pick has already been redshirted and had huge stats in hs as well.

Kent Wells 5 years, 5 months ago

Sutton: Just saying to not get in a twist if the new coach doesn't have a track record with the south (or fluent in Spanish). Of course the south is important. But contrary to what most people from Texas believe, it isn't the only state in the south. I'm not saying get uconn guy either. That would be a big mistake. Nebraska is doing OK with a gumsmackin' dude with no N ties and all of the faithful thought that was important.

Coach Fam III will be a smash! And just in time for Mizzery. Hell, he'll probably forfeit the Whorns just to focus on Tigger.

tdub 5 years, 5 months ago

A little reminder about Joe Mortensen: the dude wanted to become a marine "so he could kill somebody". For him to say a word about this investigation speaks volumes.

Dale Kroening 5 years, 5 months ago

Whoever was asking about Rivera this is his quote from the story on ESPN.

Former Jayhawks linebacker Mike Rivera, who plays for the Tennessee Titans, said Wednesday night he could not speak about the allegations. He plans to have a formal interview on the matter with representatives from Kansas in the next few days.

Im pretty sure he's not going to be saying how much he loves MM and what a nice guy he is with those representatives. For all those calling the players candy asses and pussies, its not about the cursing, hollering or even poking. We see this type of thing ALL the time on national tv, its the personal attacks. If my father was an alcoholic, or if my brother had just been shot and he said the things he said in front of the whole team I would have wanted to kick the guy in his fat ass. Call them stupid, call them candy asses but you dont bring their families problems/issues up to embarass them in front of the whole team. And for the person talking about Roy ,yes he was very hard on his players and always hollered when they made mistakes or bonehead plays ( as HCBS has done also- see TT or the twins) , but neither have ever made it personal or attacked them by talking about their families problems. That would be like HCBS telling Cole if you dont get your sheet together Im going to send you home and youll be unemployed like your daddy. MM has crossed the line. The point is this, that isnt going to make a player better or respect him or even want to play for him. What recruit is going to want to come here if the coach is going to belittle his family in order to motivate him ? Not many, and the parents will make sure of that. This isnt the AD's fault, once a player makes a complaint, its his job and obligation to look into it.

jhokfan 5 years, 5 months ago

Ok.

Change no. 5 to The Jordan Web era kicks off the 2010 season.

Maybe Kale Pick will become the next Kerry Meier.

Ben Kane 5 years, 5 months ago

i heard a rumor. a guy told a guy who told a guy who told a girl who told me that Mangino weighs a lot.

KU 5 years, 5 months ago

After seeing him run, maybe Kale Pick becomes the next running back......we need somebody to split time with Toben next year.

Kent Wells 5 years, 5 months ago

Jwliddell: I'm with you. Can you play the dbag card for me!?!

By the way, I made the Coach Fam thing up. Sheer genius if you ask me.

I mean if the bomb is dropping today, don't you think it would be posted.

Hello: LJW. What are you hearing, or are y'all waiting on us to scoop you!

suttonku 5 years, 5 months ago

KU,

I dont see pick as a RB but I do see him potentially as a WR...I dont see him starting next season at QB though. Still have Rell Lewis as of right now but Lewis has a ton of work to do if he wants carries next season. Not to mention we have a nice RB in Sims coming in next season. kuwells,

i dont think the only state in the south is Texas but I think in terms of high school football talent they rank the highest in this country with Florida a close second.

55jayhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Soobawls and pmohr13, I am taking your Fambrough statements as a joke & lite natured. As a former player under Coach Fam during the Mitchell years, I can attest he was a gentleman but would not be afraid to get you one on one with him while he knocked your d_ _ K off. Football is a tough business and we all got yelled at and yes we got our feelings hurt. None of us really know what's going on or what will happen so I say we shut up and see what KU comes up with. We have known about MM's temper for a few years but no one would get mad because we were winning. Now that we have had a rough season everyone is looking for an excuse. Our jobs now, as friends and alumni of KU, is to support this team and coaching staff while we still have two games left. The Ku AD will make the right decision on whatever the outcome is.

jhawkfannpk 5 years, 5 months ago

its funny how all this comes out during a 5 game losing streak if it were a 5 game winning streak than there is no story out there. its too bad that this stuff comes out now instead of last year or the years before. Well you know this stuff goes on at other programs more than you think. its a tough job out there and football is a tough sport with lots of rough play and contact. you have to depend on these 18-22 year old players who were all great at the hs level and were treated like kings and not really had to get after it and got by on their talent and not work effort. this game is hard at this level and needs full attention and effort. so he got a little hot and was a little mean, get over it guys. now maybe he said a few things wrong to some players but players do dumb stuff all the time, like fight the basketball team, get a dui, etc,etc. so if mm screws up a little ya know discipline him internally and keep it in house. now if the ad want to get rid of him cause he dont like him then thats not right either. i say finish out the year evaluate at the end, if an agreement cant be made then let him go but dont do it like this.

Kent Wells 5 years, 5 months ago

Damn 55jayhawk. Get a sense of humor. They didn't play the Coach Fam card, I did.

shelleysue 5 years, 5 months ago

Please, please make the lambs stop screaming.

mandomax 5 years, 5 months ago

No way he's sticking around here. With all the national attention this is getting, this will hurt our recruiting and has probably ended Mangino's career in Div-I Football

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

I heard X committed to play both football and basketball next year, as long the fat man is gone.

ginger2015 5 years, 5 months ago

Now Mangino doesn't have to be a players friend or be close with them, but there can be a level of respect of which it sounds not many former players have for him. You look at the best football coaches in America, Urban Meyer/ Pete Carroll, these guys are respected by their players and their players play hard for them.

Of the scores of football players Mangino has coached, their are three quoted or referenced in this story who have negative things to say about the coach. I'm sure that you will find more, but to say that not many former players have no respect for him is a bit of a stretch, because you don't know. I'm quite certain that you would find current and former players at Florida and USC that have negative things to say about their coaches.

Does misery love company? What I don't understand is that when a recruit comes to Kansas for a visit why are they not told about the conditions from some of these disgruntled players. I know that the staff and AD talk up the virtues of playing at KU, but they are allowed to speak to their peers. If you are so unhappy in the situation, why would you suggest to someone else that they should join you. Since the quality of our recruits has risen in the last few years, someone must be doing a helluva job of selling.

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

Yep, his name is Clint Bowen.

Mangino wanted to, but he just didn't have the stamina to abuse all of the players. He wore out before he could abuse'em all.

Kent Wells 5 years, 5 months ago

Get ready, ESPN is about to run an OTL thing on Mangino...

suttonku 5 years, 5 months ago

Clint Bowen is a disaster! Bowen will go when they bring in the new coach. I cannot stand his defense at all! I dont think the defense improving is a result of Bowen, I think its a result of Mangino. Bowen will never mount to anything as a coordinator.

niemoth 5 years, 5 months ago

even if MM is gone, he isn't done in d1 football. He'll be coaching next season even. While personal attacks may be over the line, they aren't enough to fire a head coach 2 years removed of being national coach of the year. It sounds like most of these instances aren't personal attacks on their families anyway. I have no problem with MM telling Mortensen he'll be drinking out of a brown paper bag back in Oakland when he gets a possesion charge during football season. As we see, these things have been happening in years prior, and it didn't seem to affect the prior teams play. This is just news because we are in the midst of a losing streak and is not the reason why this team is losing. If MM is gone, I think it is because Lew just wants a new big name to come in and bring some more attention to KU football and is just using the only thing he has as an excuse to get rid of him.

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

Exactly, what's morally wrong about telling a recruit from the ozarks of mizzery that he'll be back in his ozark trailer house, waving a confederate flag with his toothless wives and twelve barefoot kids. Now, that's I can respect and should be respected by his players.

niemoth 5 years, 5 months ago

ginger2015, do you realize how many former players MM has. These few players we are hearing about doesn't mean "not many former players respect him." He has plenty of players, like Anderson and McAnderson in the story above, that do support him. It's just not new to put in all the the former players contacted that do support him. Put it this way, if there isn't a quote from a former player about MM in this article, then all those former players who are able to be contacted (because you can believe many more than are listed in this article were contacted) had good things to say about MM.

Phoggin_Loud 5 years, 5 months ago

Since we're all guessing anyway, let"s guess big!!! Lew wants to set up his legacy as the guy who brought NC's to KU Football. Lew has a coach he wants to hire, but the coach can't wait anymore.
This coach: Has won championships Desires to mentor young men (no jokes here, please) Would immediately cause top recruits to de-commit from major programs to play for him Would re-build image of KU program nationally Would cause ESPN, ABC, etc to put all games on TV ( again :-) ) Would turn the college football world upside-down Looks good in Blue Has ties to Lew (in same kind of way that middle-aged men in grocery stores know the happenings within a football program) His name is:

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

great benefit of the blog we all get to have various views & perspectives:

I for one agree w. Iowa Jayhawker, Tribehawk, & Jayhawker Joel and their early posts on this thread. Logical posts for my book.

Pokes in chest don't bug me at all, playing injured players and telling them to man up and not discuss the injuries is a matter of degree. Past players reporting he should go and current players being mostly quiet tells the tale.

One priority: Beat TEXAS.

Coach Fam - w or w/out MM to give the team talk pre arrowhead speech, awesome!!!

Phoggin_Loud 5 years, 5 months ago

TONY DUNGY

I know it's crazy, but KC isn't much different than Indy. (I know KU is in Lawrence) Payton Manning & Lew were in the same suite at the Orange Bowl (hence the tie I mentioned. Yeah, it's a stretch) Lew could offer 3.5 million/yr., which is a lot, but not out of line for a proven winner. The college landscape would shift forever. KU football would be measured in BD and AD. If you're going to dream, dream big. WTH Beat Texas!!

troutsee 5 years, 5 months ago

Thanks again, grand pa. We are all waiting with a high degree of anticipation for the announcement.

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Charlie Weiss is 0-7 against ranked teams in last 3 years, and the chair would fit.

Jonathan Allison 5 years, 5 months ago

there hasn't been this much talk about KU Football for two years!

kugrad93 5 years, 5 months ago

Some of the suggestions being made about possible coaching replacements are odd. Why in the world KU want Dick Jauron? He's never coached at the college level and has a career NFL record of 60-82. Throw out his one good year in Chicago and it's 47-79. The TCU coach already is making $2 million a year and probably can recruit Texas kids a lot easier in Texas than he could from Lawrence. I don't see him coming here. He'd have to compete with his alma mater. Also, his wife is a Texan. Bill Young is 63 years old. You want to hire a new coach again in a few years? Edsall supposedly has turned down opportunities at Syracuse and Georgia Tech, schools he has ties to.

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

How about Kevin Sumlin? Not a big name but good experience from OU, could be a great coach.

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

KUbsee69 reports: "but this is just like George Patton slapping the cowards again."

yeah it may be as the 'cowards' the general was kicking in the arse were in the medical ward. Furthermore, General Eisenhowar put him on probation + a reprimand on his official service record. I don't think Dwight David wanted any candy pansies soldiers. The country loved Patton when he was kicking Rommel across north africa and also supported Ike when he said we would have 'managed' strong yet balanced discipline. Leadership is a fine line of assigned power and earned respect.

By the time anyone has to say they have the support of their team in sports or business, they've lost it from what I've seen.

"you bet your a$$ I ordered the code red!"

Jim Pendleton 5 years, 5 months ago

This is really a sad situation on many fronts. I am particularly miffed about this coming out after things have gone south this season, and not some time in the past when these things occured. While I sympathize with their feelings on this, I hope these players realize what kind of damage they are causing to our program. Do they not realize they are, and always will be, Jayhawks as well? They should want their program to be successful in the future, and doing this does not help in that regard.

From a recruiting point of view, we are likely screwed either way. If MM stays, then other coaches will play the "he doesn't treat his players well card". If he goes, then we may not only have trouble keeping recruits who have made oral commitments, but we potentially will lose others who had us in the mix. We could also have guys transfer out as well. If the latter items happen, we are going to be back where we were before MM was coach.

I for one do not want things back where they were before MM arrived. Regardless, I hope our fans stay with the program. We must continue to grow things and help the program become one of the big boys. Rock Chalk!

Joel Hood 5 years, 5 months ago

Just to jump on the rumor mill - Jon Gruden

Of course I have no real source to site - duh! :-)

Tribehawk 5 years, 5 months ago

jayhawkhim, the players haven't damaged the program, Mangino has.

And to all the blowhards who have posted on here insulting our players: It takes a lot more courage to be a whistleblower in a situtatoin like this than to accuse a bunch of teenagers of being sissies from behind a computer screen. It is becoming increasingly evident that Arist Wright did the right thing. Half of his current teammates may hate him right now, and half of the fan base might hate him as well. And he knew that would happen if he spoke up. But he did it anyway, because he knew it was the right thing to do. Every jayhawk fan should be laying off of him and all the other players that Mangino ran over in his years with us.

justanotherfan 5 years, 5 months ago

Phoggin_Loud

I have only one guess, but I'm not sure it's the right one:

Former UConn (and current East Carolina) coach Skip Holtz.

Am I anywhere close?

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

I don't get it? The former player's comments don't matter because they should have spoke up while they were playing, the players the are here speak up and they are destroying the program. Doesn't Mangino's lack of respect toward players play into the whole issue?

justanotherfan 5 years, 5 months ago

Another thing for those criticizing the players...

If the situation were reversed (i.e. a player was the one accused of saying rude and inappropriate things to other players, abusing parking staff, acting like they were owed something, blowing up on colleagues, etc.) would there be anyone on here defending that player?

I have seen how people reacted to the Briscoe incidents, the accusations a couple years back regarding Sherron Collins, parking tickets for Brandon Rush, the Morningstar incident, the campus fights, etc.

Are we seriously holding the athletes to a higher standard than we now hold the man that leads them?

akruger10 5 years, 5 months ago

All the Mangino supporters are giving Mangino to much credit for the rising of KU football to a respectable program. You take away his 12-1 season, which was by far the weakest schedule possible, he has a losing record and all of the supporters would be on the front line of cutting Mangino loose. Mangino's luck has run out, KU football no longer surprises teams and we lose. We will be just fine with a new coach who is nice and respectful of others.

jhokfan 5 years, 5 months ago

You're right Phoggin, it is crazy.

Can't blame you for dreaming big. He'd be my first choice as well.

Joseph Kuebel 5 years, 5 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

shelleysue 5 years, 5 months ago

People keep saying that MM really did nothing at KU except bring us a 12-1 record against a cupcake schedule.

Ended a 36 year drought against NE Consecutive wins against KSU Orange Bowl win 12-1 record (regardless of the opponents it's still 12-1) Three bowls in four years Some of the best games ever played at KU New playing surface New football complex Full stadium week after week Actual excitement about KU football Coach of the year A ranked team Player accolades Graduated NFL caliber players And above all - respect for the program. Yes. Respect. He built it.

Guilty or not, please don't keep insisting he did nothing for KU.

Joseph Kuebel 5 years, 5 months ago

lol grandpa... you apparently have lost it, senile old man.

NO S*** this was tip of the iceberg... Obviously, as KU Athletic Director Lew Perkins said, "there will be an investigation"...

Do you wanna cookie? You said this was only the tip of the iceberg! Wow! Everyone knew that this was going to blow up, as soon as there was a single allegation... why in the world would ku choose to bring this up if there weren't changes imminent?....

you think they brought this up so we could destroy our pending recruits?? you think they would honestly let this leak if they weren't going to fire him?????

wow...obviously this was the beginning...this would never have been brought up if they did not intend on firing him...do you seriously, honestly think your (dumb@$$) is smarter than everyone on here? you really think you were the first put it together that ku wouldn't bring this up if they didn't plan on firing him..."no s** sherlock!"....

apparently you don't know what the hell you are talking about as you think you are smart cuz u said "this is the tip of the iceberg"....well duh, old man! They aren't gonna just be like lets release information on Mangino and Fup our recruiting!?!?!?

obviously....hello?...You're not smarter than everyone else, in fact your dumber for thinking that you brought it to everyones attention that this is only the beginning...seriously you obviously don't know what the h** you are talking about cuz if you did you'd realize: everyone with a 3rd of a brain knew that immediately...you weren't and are not some prophet...

wow...FUNNY when people think they know what they are talking about and really they are ones that are clueless as H**

DocBean 5 years, 5 months ago

We've pretty much solved the problem here. If the rumors can be believed; Sounds like Lew is just working out the details with a coaching staff of:

Head Coach - Bill Cower Assistent Head Coach - Tony Dungy Offensive Coordinator - Jon Gruden Defensive Coordinator - Mike Holmgren Assistent Offensive Coordinator - Charlie Weiss Assistent Defensive Coordinator - Dick Jauron Special Teams Coordinator - Yet to be named (most likely Bobby Bowden)

Joseph Kuebel 5 years, 5 months ago

Grade A moron...this is why young people hate older people that think like you...

You, like several old people think you know what is going on and the rest of us (youngins) don't...well really, truth be told is that you are the dumb one that thinks nobody else is getting it...when everyone else is.

Ben Kane 5 years, 5 months ago

how about Bud Foster. The man is a defesive guru and made the final cut of 3 for the WVU job.

DocBean 5 years, 5 months ago

Offensive Line/Running Back coach - Mike Shannahan.

justinryman 5 years, 5 months ago

NO matter of the rumors flying today if he's gone by 5 or not, why do it today? it will do NOTHING for this team ging into Texas or Mizzu. Let him finish out the year. This is a lot like what Steve Pederson did to Frank Solich at Nebraska, no matter the outcome on the feild your done and I want my own guy on the sideline. lots of backroom deals. MM made KU football relivant not only in the Bg 12, but Nationally. He pulled in recruits year after year and made outstanding players out of guys nobody else wanted ie Todd Ressing. I wish him and our program the best not only toady and the near future but down the road.

TexasJayhawk78 5 years, 5 months ago

I am surprised the LJW or Lawrence Urinal World, as we called it when I attended KU has not gone door to door to interview all the great grandmothers of Columbia, MO and see what they think.

Guys, Halloween is over; between Lew Perkins and the LUW stirring the cauldron of rumors they have turned a respectable program and a great school into a laughingstock.

What great timing Lew. It is almost like you planned it. Thanks a lot, Lew.

Lew, why do you think you have doors on your office? Shut the damn things and take care of things like a man!

jtop 5 years, 5 months ago

DocBean (anonymous) says... LOL!!! that is HYSTERICAL!

Jayhacker 5 years, 5 months ago

Let's get outside the box...how about co-head coaches? Ladies and Gents, I give you:

LOU HOLTZ and MARK MAY!

DocBean 5 years, 5 months ago

Don't worry about paying for all of those coaches. Lew is on the Board of Directors for Gatorade and he's already talked Pepsi into picking up most of the bill just for rights to sponsorship of the team.

Every KU game from here on out will only show Gatorade and Pepsi commercials. With that staff, I'll be the first to wear an official KU "I'm G" T-shirt to next years home games.

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Q. I'll ask for the forth time. You ordered--

A. You want answers?

Q. I think I'm entitled to them.

A. You want answers?!

Q. I want the truth.

A. You can't handle the truth! .... Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You got me there. We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline.. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. I'd prefer you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to.

140) Q. Did you order the code red?

A. I did the job you sent me to do.

141) Q. Did you order the code red?

A. You're goddamn right I did.

Defense: Please the court, I suggest the jury be dismissed so that we can move to an immediate Article 39a Session. The witness has rights.

shelleysue 5 years, 5 months ago

I think they should just put a coaching staff together from people on this message board.

Kent Wells 5 years, 5 months ago

Here is some just released video of Arist Wright and Mangino. Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k52QWFeP7OY

kickazzkurtz 5 years, 5 months ago

I remember when Bill Parcells talked about getting into it with NFL players and they swung at him. IYou know NFL coaches say some down right horrible things to players. Obviously you can be much harder on players making millions of dollars so if MM gets fired he might be a good fit in the NFL as Jason Whitlock suggest.

Just a thought....I don't think anyone is questioning any football players physical toughness. It's the mental toughness.

I approve of MM comment to Mortenson after the MIP but the shooting comment was a little much, but doesn't warrant a firing. Although, I would put it all on the line to bet other players at other programs successful or not have had head coaches say things that are just as bad.

Overall I think most of the acusations are not enough to fire him, but it has kind of made hime a lame duck coach and could hurt recruiting.

Either way we go back to being bad because with the handling of this there will be recruits that see it both ways just like there are former players that see it both ways and they will stay away if we have a new coach or not.

New coach suggestions:

Phil Fulmer Bill Young Nolan Chromwell

Defense turned it around (other than 4th qtr against Neb) Clint Bowen can have another year in my opinion. (Obviously the defense didn't give up this year.)

Jim Pendleton 5 years, 5 months ago

Tribehawk - first of all, I did not say that MM was blameless in this deal, and I didn't say that players should not say anything at all if they believe there is a problem.

If a problem like this does happen, it should be brought to the attention of the athletic dept right away. Not five years from now, but now. When you do something like this in the middle of a five game losing streak in a season where much was expected, it just gives the appearance of a disgruntled player popping off.

Also, let's not say the players are blameless when problems occur. How quickly we forget about fights with basketball players, or getting tickets for drinking outside the Hawk, or domestic dispute incidents. Coaches are put in a bad situation when things like this occur. They obviously want their best players on the field at all times, but often they have to sit a player who themselves created the problem in the first place by breaking team rules, or the law (some guy named Randle comes to mind).

Interesting that players want to throw their coach under the bus now, yet he didn't suspend any of them for the fb vs bb team fights. Yes there were no charges filed, but we all know it happened (twice in different campus locations) and both groups are lucky nobody was suspended as a result.

Sorry, but when something like this happens, everyone gets hurt, and the program is the one who suffers the most. If you are or were a part of this program, it's future welfare and success should be something you should care about. Rock Chalk!

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

The problem is there was nobody to yell at Mangino, Perkins should have got in Mangino's face early in the season and poked the fat man in his big manboobs and let him know that if he almost loses Southern Miss and ISU and then proceeds to lose to Colorado and OU and T Tech and k-state and nebraska that he might just find his fat arse at the all-you-can-eat buffet at noon daily to get the first servings. This is football its a tough sport, it's Perkins fault for not getting in the Big Mans round face with 3 chins. Fire Perkins for not doing his job.

Phoggin_Loud 5 years, 5 months ago

DocBean, That coach list is close. However:
Take the "assistant" label off Tony Dungy. He will be the HC Move Bill Cower to Def. Coord. Move Holmgren & Jauron out. Other than that, it looks right. BTW- Beat Texas!!

Christopher Hauser 5 years, 5 months ago

"Tory Bradley was a freshman running back at Kansas State in 1996 when Mangino was the running backs coach there. He told ESPN that he had a run-in with Mangino at the Cotton Bowl, where K-State was getting ready to play BYU. Bradley said he fell asleep in a meeting and woke up on the floor. His teammates told him Mangino pushed him out of his chair. While he was down and attempting to get up, he says, Mangino "kicked me three or four times in my butt. When I got up he started shaking me real hard. Bradley said his parents called Mangino and were considering filing a lawsuit when they learned about the incident. Bradley left Kansas State and said he was told by Mangino and head coach Bill Snyder that if he kept it "hush-hush," they would give him an unconditional release so he could transfer to Missouri, which he did."Mark Mangino is the reason I left K-State," Bradley said." - paragraph from Joe Schad article on ESPN.com about HCMM

Bill Snyder connection? This makes me wonder since HCMM for the most part comes from the Snyder school of coaching, then what goes on at KSU? I have had quite a few friends that played for KSU (most of them rode the bench but not all) that did not even like Snyder and they also talked down on his ways of motivation. I am not going to give sources on this nor am I trying to bring Snyder down, but this statement implies that Snyder condoned or at the very least may have or still does tolerate this behavior from his coaching staff?

hawkson 5 years, 5 months ago

In my experience inside a couple of college programs and with good knowledge of a couple of more....

  1. ALL college football coaches are a****les to varying degrees. They have extreme power over players who have given big portions of their lives to the dream of playing on Saturdays. How capriciously they wield that power determines whether they will be tolerated by players when times get tough. When times are good and wins are flowing players and everyone else (ADs, alums etc) will tolerate about anything.

  2. The so-called physical abuse (poking in chest etc.) in this case is nothing that is not happening THIS week on a hundred campuses across the country.

HCMM is clearly guilty of 1. with more than the average amount of caprice and mean spirited-ness... and the losses have caused it to be actionable. In 2., he is no different than any other coach.

Likely case.... ADLP "picked up the phone" this time. At almost anytime an AD could find a player who is actively reaching out to complain about a coach or would willingly do so if prompted. When Arist Wright reached out, LP listened instead of sending a minion to mollify and remind the player that HCMM was a great coach who was firmly in place and respected (...in other words: shut up or leave) as he has likely done many times in the last few years.

As others have noted this was certainly pre-meditated and ADLP knows how it is going to come out. The only question is: Did ADLP call a few coaching prospects (What's Fort Worth's area code?) last summer to feel them out based upon HCMM's "success" and potential need to re-fill. ADLP has been one-step-ahead so far....

Finaly to the question of why go public..in a word "cause" ... Fired for cause is a lot less expensive to the AD.

minipman 5 years, 5 months ago

this is big 12 football.. if u cant handle a "poke" in the chest, with pads on... then you shouldnt be playing football... i would hate to see what goes on down at texas or flordia or alabama.. i gurantee they do a lil more than poking players... if the coach wants to poke a kid in the chest..then he's allowed to.. the players are owned by the coach.. they get a ridiculous amount of money to play there... mayb if they would do what they are suppose to then the coach wouldnt have to poke em... if they get rid of mangino then they might as well.. get rid of the football program.. we'll be back to 0-12.. if ur goin fire anyone.. fire that Offensive Cordinator!!

Priest Fontaine 5 years, 5 months ago

wait a minute. a head football coach being aggressive towards his players? no way! a finger poke to the chest? gotta come up with something better than that. This is like the weapons of mass destruction search in iraq.

maybe this will help you guys put things in perspective:

http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/gallery/Martial-Arts-Training-in-Gaza/2546/

Prophet 5 years, 5 months ago

I thought we would hear something by now. Does anybody know if Coach MM has gone to Texas with the KU Football Team? Has anyone seen him around his home today?

duanep5ku 5 years, 5 months ago

I have to say this the timing is real bad because for all the MM haters do you realize that this might cause a ripple effect on both teams the football team and the basketball team as well.The school has had to much bad ink lately and now this, do any of you MM haters know that if he goes right now that our current players might leave and this will blow up in our face. Does any one remember the recent coaching change at Memphis? and that was basketball yes but its a lot easier to fill up a basketball team then an entire football program. I would also like to point out that Lew is a dumb ass for doing this right now before the season ends.After all this is gong to hurt even basketball recruits might be affected by the schools bad press, I will make one last comment to one poster on this site, who commented on the bad bowl games Hello" Orange Bowl two years ago! gee how soon we forget. I know the record right now is below most expectation but MM did not fumble the ball in games and drop a few key passes that would have been a TD, Add those plays to the mix this team might have 7 wins and this would not be an issue.

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

Either way we'll be a better team in five years. What doesn't kill you...blah...blah...blah. Jayhawk football is destined to be great, someday, probably five or six years from now.

Christopher Hauser 5 years, 5 months ago

heterohilfiger- Might want to watch it on the weapons of mass destruction talk. The UN states that any weapons of mass destruction in any amount (biological, chemical, or nuclear) were not allowed in Iraq. Remember the UN stated that any amount was forbidden. We found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq just not the amount that led the American people to think that the war was justified. I am not going to give you any sources because EOD people do not like to have their names put out for everyone to see. Most of them have bounty's out on their heads by certain terrorist organizations. Choose to believe me or choose not to.

Ben Kane 5 years, 5 months ago

lets face facts and look at the bright side. Realistically we were do for a downfall after the OB. Honestly, I enjoyed the misery game last year (the only one of the season I could get into town for) much more than the OB, which I was also at, and overall I was proud of our teams accomplishments last year against a much tougher schedule.

This year has obviously been sad because we had such high hopes but 75% of our fans need to wake up. We weren't only a basketball school, we were a basketball fan base. It will probably take a decade of high football interest before this team is supported like the top level programs. When NU was having down years I'm guessing their stadium was still packed every game and didn't empty out at halftimes (I'm sure one of you will actually look that up to prove me wrong).

I have my opinions on the MM issue but they are irrelevant. What matters is trying to win on Saturday and supporting our team in their effort to do so.

Go Hawks

justinryman 5 years, 5 months ago

Actuall thought on a REAL replacement coach, Buffalo's Turner Gill.

Christopher Hauser 5 years, 5 months ago

heterohilfiger- my intent on my post was not to be a jerk to you just throwing it out there. Have a good evening.

Christopher Hauser 5 years, 5 months ago

justinryman- Dont you think Gill is a little iffy after the season he has put together this year?

justinryman 5 years, 5 months ago

Chris, he lost more than half his starters from a year ago, and yet has had an ok season with what he has had to work with and a pretty tough non-conf. sched. He is not only a good coach a a stand up guy and model citizen, I can speak of that as I have met him when he was a player and an assistant at NU. I know there are other options out there, but lets face it we are not ND or Michigan, so who do we go after?

Kyle Helmer 5 years, 5 months ago

Good God, people! We need some news from Lew because we are actually having a serious dicussion about WMD's on this site? This is a sports site.

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Texas game player misses a block or fumbles.

Runs off field while MM waves his arms, "excuse me, excuse me nice player would you please come over here to have a nice chat?"

No, Lew said in our confidential in house meeting that you would not be allowed to poke me anymore and belittle my manhood.

"Please sit down on the bench while I consider if you play more downs this game."

you don't boss me. . . . . . . .support MM or not support MM how can he effectively coach "manage" the team for this game. Wonder why we didn't execute a suspended subject to further review protocal? If he boards the texas plane and they close the door, wonder which players will pooop their britches?

Hawktacular 5 years, 5 months ago

Keep Mangino around if for nothing else than to beat G@Y-ZOU more often than not.

jhawk613 5 years, 5 months ago

Anyone see what Jocques Crawford said in the ESPN article?

"Every other day, he'd get in somebody's face and be pushing them on the shoulder pads. He tried to provoke us to get us to snap.

Really Jocques? The shoulder pads? Don't you get hit in them by 250 pound linebackers. The pads are meant to protect you. Grow a pair and in the meantime get to work on those 2,000 yards you promised.

Next Mangino masks his coaching success behind his scheduling. He is 24-39 in conference (17-38 without the dream 07 season). We need to replace on the basis of winning/recruiting.

Go after (I could go find these names but I'm lazy): Turner Gill Alabama DC Northwestern HC (he has brought that team up in the Big Ten - might not be a good fit)

Also I hear Sean Payton is tired of losing in New Orleans and wants to try the college game.

TexasJayhawk78 5 years, 5 months ago

Let's vote on whether Lew stays or goes.

I vote he packs up today!

justinryman 5 years, 5 months ago

TXJ are you asking if Lew goes???? Where would Lew go and why? He wouldn't make this much comotion if he was planning on leaving.

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Coach, I've not been kind to you in my posts the last several weeks, since conf. play.

I will be forever grateful that you allowed us to be proud and care about football once again here at Kansas. Thank you for your wonderful passion and what you've done for us, from filling the stands, to what you have put on the field.

Sad it had to end this way. You take care, thanks for the memories.

Clarence Haynes 5 years, 5 months ago

If true, talking about sending people "back home to get shot with homies" and speaking about the sobriety of someone's father is not tough love! That should not happen at KU let alone anywhere else.

stravinsky 5 years, 5 months ago

My vote is for Mike Ditka!

The choice is obvious. He has ties to KU (Gale Sayers was a bear. At a later time, Ditka coached for the Bears. So obviously, those two are tight). He has ties with Lew Perkins (they both have lots of money. therefore, ties.) And a history of winning championships.

James Hubin 5 years, 5 months ago

If Belichick decides not to take the job Lew might look into that.

beatmastermatt 5 years, 5 months ago

Is it just me, or is this much ado over nothing? Poking a player in the chest? Personal attacks? Please, he's a coach, not a pastor. Mangino has done more for this football team than anyone else for as long as I can remember. Let's just shut up about this already and remember that we still have two more games this year to become bowl eligible.

jayhawkintexas 5 years, 5 months ago

This situation with Coach Mangino is not new. Bud Moore (some of us that were on the Hill in the 70's remember him) was also abusive to his players and he was let go. If Coach Mangino is let go (and I'm not going to say whether he should or shouldn't be), I would hate to have an NFL coach as the next head coach. Except for Pete Carroll and, in earlier years Lou Holtz, NFL coaches haven't really worked out too well at the college level. Bill Callahan at Nebraska and Mike Sherman at Texas A&M readily come to mind.

kbk 5 years, 5 months ago

MAN UP!!! FOOTBALL COACHES ARE TOUGH. DEAL WITH IT OR GO ELSEWHERE.

Christopher Hauser 5 years, 5 months ago

justinryman- I agree with you that we are not like teams like OU and ND. It would just be nice to have a sure thing, but then again nothing is for sure in KU football!

irishheadbutt 5 years, 5 months ago

pansies all a bunch of pansies this is football folks not home ec if a good coach comes to your school or team and turns the hole vibe around then i bet he is pretty tough and so what! So a bunch of pansies that didnt make it to the nfl are comen out to say he was too hard on them! gimme a break you should have never played football! My jr high coach was a mean sob and we won! I wouldnt want a coach that brings his lawn chair and a blanket and just blow a horn to get your attention. Heck NO!! get in my face scream yell and get the team going if the coach cant do what he wants the team players will never respect him and what he stands for.. And so for all the band wagon fans that put down the big man...go away, go back to kstates web site cause you dont belong here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is ku football and if mangino leaves we all better pray that we get someone with a pair to stand up for him self and get our football ball on the same track he has winning!!!!!! and to the players whining.. cry me a river build me a bridge and get the fu@# over it!

Devin Rutledge 5 years, 5 months ago

WAH! Is this cheerleading or football? A poke in the chest is nothing compared to being jerked around by your face mask(regular practice by every football coach I ever had). One of the most physical sports in college, do you want him to cuddle these guys, or make them tougher. I go with tougher. This is not cheerleading, it's gridiron football. Bruises, bumps, broken bones, etc. The guys got a temper, yeah, I agree. But that round coach of ours has brought this football program a long, long, way. If Mangino is fired, that's just crazy. These players that are complaining should be ashamed of themselves for #1, being pansies, and #2 blowing this way out of proportion, has the university not had enough negative press this year? You think HCBS holds players' hands when he gets on to them? Nope, gets all over players.

gohawks291 5 years, 5 months ago

I just heard that coach is on his way out and there is a press conference set for the morning...Has anyone else heard this? Is it true? Hope not!

Rock Chalk

area51 5 years, 5 months ago

I like charlie strong defensive coordinator from Florida as a new head coach. He get's along with his players very well and he's a constant winner.

Steve Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

who ate my strawberries, there should be plenty left for the capt. of this ship to have more strawberries,

Lt. order a search of the ship, someone has hijacked my strawberries, yet I never lost the officers and crew of the Caine Mutiny. Fred McMurray as the def. co/ordinator and H. Bogart in the 'hjead coach role.'

My god some movies are better than real life. For those of you who don't get it why MM is gone, netflix this one & toast yourself some popcorn one evening.

Icemaker 5 years, 5 months ago

I back the coach on this, football is not a sport where nice gentle things happen, its rough, hard on the players, coaches and even the fans. look at it this way. in every college football program expectations are high; money, bowl games, national attention, recruiting, winning games against rivals, fans respect, players respect as well as the coaches jobs are on the line. Boosters pay money in term they want results, their the ones actually pulling the strings here. its because of them that the teams get the money the need/have, their a big part of the reason this whole so called investigation is taking place. I've played football for the majority of my life, i've been around a good number of coaches as well as being around a number of good coaches and their all the same; the top dog / father figure who kicks your a** and does things to make you either bounce back or strive to another level,

remember dick vermeil when he was at KC, remember how nice he was, remember when he coached a player named larry johnson who acted like he was the top dog and didnt have to listen to anyone other than himself?!?! vermail came on publicly and humiliated larry and called him a baby ect.. and what happened larry blew up and became on of the premier backs in the NFL. Now he did that publically which in my mind is way worse if your going to compare. Please someone get on here whether it be a fairweather player or coach personal who has been around a coach who has never yelled or punished his players for whatever the reason.

life is tough and so is football if you don't like it then by all means take the pads away and add flags because honestly this is whole investigation/allegations are just outrageous and shame on the fan who backed him and after this season left him. That to me is worse than a Missouri fan, and quite frankly that's what you are when you back this type of bullsh*t

Lance Hobson 5 years, 5 months ago

It's Mangino not Mangina. These guys need to toughen up and suck it up. We win games under his leadership, and no one said winning was easy.

Joseph Kuebel 5 years, 5 months ago

Honestly...

Just, everyone stop, take a step back and look at the bigger picture here...

LETS ALL JUST BE HONEST:

Mangino was going to die in the next 2 years of a heart attack and health problems anyways...instead of avoiding a tragic situation then...we can avoid it all, Right Now!!

meatsauce 5 years, 5 months ago

More Chins than a Chinese phone book.

Sean Rodger 5 years, 5 months ago

meatsauce - up at 5:30 a.m. to jump on the KU message boards. Guess how many times I've been to a Nebraska website? 0.

Like JW said - closet KU fan. Why in the funk & wagnell would you care about this so much?

Eric Schneider 5 years, 5 months ago

Tribehawk- courage has nothing to do with being a whistle blower. It's either about getting your fifteen minutes, or dogpiling on because everyone else is doing it. Just like the whole Michigan thing earlier this year. This is about wins and losses. Period.

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