Thursday, April 9, 2009

Thomas, Appleton leaving Kansas

Players transferring for more playing time

Kansas men's basketball players Tyrone Appleton, left, and forward Quintrell Thomas will look to transfer after the spring 2009 semester, according to head coach Bill Self.

Kansas men's basketball players Tyrone Appleton, left, and forward Quintrell Thomas will look to transfer after the spring 2009 semester, according to head coach Bill Self.


Appleton, Thomas transfer from KU

Tyrone Appleton and Quintrell Thomas have decided to transfer from the Kansas University men's basketball program, it was announced Thursday.

Kansas University freshman Quintrell Thomas and junior Tyrone Appleton, who played sparingly for the Jayhawks during the 2008-09 basketball season, both cited a desire for playing time — and lots of it — as their reasons for deciding to transfer away from KU.

‘“Q’ wants to play. I don’t blame him,” KU coach Bill Self said Thursday night, hours after issuing a press release that indicated the two would leave KU for yet-to-be-determined destinations.

“Tyrone intends on playing basketball for a living, whether Europe or somewhere. There’s no chance to do that if you do not develop a résumé, same for Quintrell,” Self added.

He sat down with the two players this week, and after a discussion of the 2009-10 roster, it was apparent transferring was the only way they’d be guaranteed meaningful minutes.

“We talked about where they are now and their role next season based on players returning and ones coming in,” Self said. “Both were not happy with their playing time last year. If players return and others are coming in, their chances to play and contribute minutes would be similar to this year. I asked, ‘Would you be happy in the same role next year? If you are happy with it, fine.’ They want to play.”

Thomas, a 6-foot-7, 240-pounder from Newark, N.J., who averaged 5.4 minutes in 26 games, not only would face front-court competition for minutes from Cole Aldrich, who most expect will return next season, Mario Little, the Morris twins and Travis Releford, but also newcomers Jeff Withey and Thomas Robinson.

Appleton, a 6-2, 203-pounder from Gary, Ind., who averaged 2.2 minutes in 21 games, would find it tough taking time from Sherron Collins, who also is a good bet to return, as well as Tyshawn Taylor, Tyrel Reed, Brady Morningstar and newcomer Elijah Johnson, with the possibility of Xavier Henry and his brother, C.J., joining the program.

“Kansas has been great with the fans, my teammates and the tradition,” said Thomas, who, like Appleton, didn’t list any schools on his transfer list. It’s always possible Thomas could go the junior-college route to avoid sitting out a year, while Appleton already has played juco ball. “I think by transferring, I can find an expanded role elsewhere. I want to thank the basketball staff and administration for the opportunity to play at Kansas and have no ill feelings toward the program,” Thomas added.

Noted Appleton: “Kansas has been a great experience, one that I will never forget. I enjoyed my teammates, coaches and the fans. I am just looking for more time on the court and don’t see it here. I want to be able to have a solid senior season.”

Self believes the phone will be ringing off the hook regarding both players.

“I think there will be quite a bit of interest,” he said, responding “absolutely” when asked if he’d help the two pick schools.

“We, as a staff, know whoever gets them will be getting good, hard-working players. They have been fabulous young men, good teammates and solid ambassadors for the university.

“I like them. The coaches like them. The kids (teammates) like them. They’ve chosen to attend a university where they can have expanded roles.”

The departure of Appleton and Thomas puts KU at 12 scholarship players for next season, one under the limit of 13.

A previous version of this story contained a number of notes. Those items have been moved to a separate story.


RonBurgandy 12 years, 2 months ago

Unfortunate, but does that free up two scholarships?

CrodieBroyle 12 years, 2 months ago

yes it does... Xavier Henry, come on down!

Chris Corley 12 years, 2 months ago

My take is that Cole and Sherron are staying. And Mr. X. is coming.

TwinCitiesJHawk 12 years, 2 months ago

This is great news for the program!!! Now we can have CJ and X!!

JayViking 12 years, 2 months ago

Tyrone and Quintrell,

Despite the fact that many of the following posts will divert to discussions about Henry and Stephenson, let me take a moment to thank you both! I was very much looking forward to seeing both of you progress as Jayhawks, and as much as a fan can possibly appreciate a player, I thank both of you for your hard work and dedication to the program. Both of you appear to be hard-working players with great attitudes, and I hopefully speak for the rest of the Jayhawk faithful in wishing you the best at your next schools!

Eric Williams 12 years, 2 months ago

Another possible outcome, is Brady still gives up his scholarship freeing 2.

One for X.

One for CJ.

X and CJ, when talking to UK and Cal, don't drink their Kool-aid.

jayhawkinnc 12 years, 2 months ago

Tyrone and Quintrell:

Thank you for your 1 year of contributions to KU Basketball. I hope you had a good experience being Jayhawks. Good luck wherever you end up playing!!!

kufankam 12 years, 2 months ago

OH SNAP! Hate to see them go, but would hate to see them sit the bench more... GOOD LUCK to both of those guys!!

WeAreTheChamps 12 years, 2 months ago

Definitely saw this coming. Didn't know who exactly would transfer but I knew it would be from last years recruiting class. We'll miss you guys and tear it up wherever you go!

tennesseest 12 years, 2 months ago

Does anyone know anything about a beef between X and Daniel Orton? Does it mean we could get one OR the other? Lance S? Lots of questions, but this certainly is the first step.

Theutus 12 years, 2 months ago

Can't blame them... They are great talents, and will see more PT at another program....

Thanks for everything you gave to Kansas Basketball and it's fans gentlemen! I'll follow your success wherever you go.

KEITHMILES05 12 years, 2 months ago

Well, that frees up some schollies.

I really like these two guys though. They have been very friendly after games intermingling with the fans.

Great guys. Congrats to you on your new endeavors.

Jfanallways 12 years, 2 months ago

unless im remembering wrong wouldnt that allow for the possibility that if brady gave up his scholly we would have room for x and lance, or now that a power forward position opend up x and orton or, lance and orton? im just dreaming out lound im not saying it will happen. im sorry to see thomas go i thought he looked promising but im glad releford stayed honestly didnt see appelton leaving being a seinor next year and tranfering once already. all that said being too deep is the best problem a coach could have rock chalk

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

Well, I hope my comments on the Woolridge story didn't cause Appleton to transfer. I just hope he finds a good fit in a good quality program. Maybe he'll transfer to Missouri so we can light him up! I feel bad for QT! I wish he could have seen the light at the end of the tunnel. I think he would have had an opportunity his junior and senior year. Most kids forget that part, but then again KU basketball is a "Cut-Throat" business that most of us don't want to admit. Good luck to both Appleton and QT!

BigTamale 12 years, 2 months ago


If you are referring to "CJ" Henry, then he doesn't need a schollie... the NY Yankees will pay for his school from his days in minor league ball.

hometownhawk 12 years, 2 months ago

You do realize that this only leaves ONE free scholarship, not 2. We were one over already. This frees one up for X. CJ, if he can even get cleared, doesn't need a scholarship.

Clarence Haynes 12 years, 2 months ago

These are always difficult decisions to make and they are handling this situation with great class. Best of success to both gentlemen.

penguin 12 years, 2 months ago

The scholarships it frees up would not go to CJ. The Yankees are paying his way through school. The scenario it could set up are endless. However, if X and CJ come that is only one scholarship. Therefore, I am guessing there might be another unknown out there maybe Stephenson or Orton (backing out of Kentucky b/c of Cousins).

This is also not surprising, but I am just glad it's not Travis Releford. Of the three mentioned I feared his transfer more than the other two. However, I am glad we had a year with Appleton and Q. I wish them the best in their future.

I am also guessing that this probably means Aldrich and Collins are staying. Otherwise, this move just doesn't make sense. I hope this means X, C.J. and unknown come on down to Lawrence...I am eagerly waiting.

nmcbeth 12 years, 2 months ago

Man, Sorry to see them go, I was really pulling for Quintrell.

Well good luck on where ever you end up

rockchalkchamps21 12 years, 2 months ago

CJ won't take up a scholly as he is getting schooling paid for by the Yankees. Looks like the rumors of X AND Lance coming or possibly X AND Orton coming could get some legs. Good Luck to Ty and Q on their future endeavors and you guys will always be remembered as Jayhawks!

shoedee 12 years, 2 months ago

I have mixed feelings here. I know this will probably work best for our program, freeing up scholarships for blue chip recruits like X and/or Lance. But Self said it best ... these are hardworking fabulous young men. The other guys who transferred out might have been talented, but they were either Roy's recruits (Padgett, Wilkes, Giddens) or had major baggage (Giles, Downs). I think the one transfer under Self that could have worked out pretty well here had he stayed was Galindo. What I am mixed about is that Appleton and Q. Thomas are hard-nosed, hard-working Bill Self guys- they will be a huge asset wherever they transfer and maybe even starters and impact players. Thanks Tyrone and Quintrell for giving us great effort this last year.

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

I know there was a report that Orton might leave UK, but I don't see it happening. Again, this is speculation, but when I had lunch with some die hard UK faithful today, it had sounded like Calipari and Orton had ironed things out. Again, all speculation, but Orton will probably stay committed to UK. I also see John Wall signing with UK because UK is in an almost desperate spot to land any point guard let alone John wall. I think Meeks will come back to UK and play alongside Cousins, Patterson, Orton (coming off the bench) and John Wall. I think KU has a great opportunity to get Lance or X or both. Who knows? How sweet would that be to land both of those guys? It's been a long-time since there was this much excitement going on in the recruting world. I love it!

Dale Kroening 12 years, 2 months ago

First off , thanks QT and Tyrone for your time here, and good luck with your future ! That gives Whithey a schollie and leaves us 1 for another signee. By the way CJ's way is being paid by the Yankees and he does not need a schollie.

DSommersby 12 years, 2 months ago

Tyrone and Quintrell thank you for all of your blood, sweat, and tears this past season playing and representing the Kansas Jayhawks. I wish you guys nothing but great success and will follow how you are doing! You are always Jayhawks and we appreciate all you have done and will do! Best of luck and go tear it up!

kufankam 12 years, 2 months ago

does anyone know if CJ would need a scholarship or is it possible that the Yankees are paying for him? Haha, just kidding! looking at the times, it is obvious that you all were posting at the same time... but reading it - it was like, "okay, we get it"!!!

dragonhawk2 12 years, 2 months ago

I agree, shoedee. I have enjoyed both players and, while maybe not as skilled as some others, were hardworking guys and I believe could have found playing time down the road.

As far as a scholly for CJ, he doesn't need one if he comes. His tuition is being paid by the Yankees organization. This move does make room for withey and another, whoever that might be.

TexasHawk44 12 years, 2 months ago

We have all counted baby Jayhawks before they are hatched, but the timing on this feels good. I think it may mean the Self has communicated something that he knows to Thomas and Appleton. Hopefully that means there will be a 3 under the tree for next season. Who knows?

I do wish Appleton and Thomas the best. I was not impressed with Appleton but I never got to see him play much. I actually liked what I saw out of Thomas in his limited role. He hustled which I thought showed a lot. Good luck to both!

Hoping losing these two means something good is on its way to Lawrence!

truefan 12 years, 2 months ago

I don't know if the basketball players or recruits actually read anything on these message boards, in fact I highly doubt that they do. Just in case though, why don't we all just assume that they do read these boards and adjust our comments accordingly. I really like Quintrell and Appleton, and I was actually hoping that they would not transfer and we could find another way to work things out with this recruiting mess. I think Quintrell is Darnell Jackson version 2.0. I'll be following his story where ever he ends up just to see if he developes in to the special player that D-Block is. As far as Appleton goes, his experience directly helped us in the first round of the tournament this year and that will be missed. I still think he could have gotten some PT next year if he worked hard enough. Self rewards hard work, not just flashy play and scoring which was evident with Russ Rob's unreplaceable role in last years National Title. I hope it works out for both of them at their new schools, but they will always be Jayhawks in my mind.

JayhawkPurist 12 years, 2 months ago

LJW STAFF, How about a story on the scholarship situation? We have a bunch of "experts" on this board, but it'd be nice to get some authoritative information.

KU1992 12 years, 2 months ago

We will have 1 scholarship available. we were already one over because self was banking on sherron leaving for sure. so we could still get X and CJ. or just Lance.

1 scholarship...

chicagoeddie 12 years, 2 months ago

yes please can u give us an update on what if scenarios...

TexasHawk44 12 years, 2 months ago

KU will not offer Orton even if he leaves UK -- unless Cole goes pro. CJ does not need a scholarship. One can only hope that it would be X, CJ and Wall. But that is being very, very greedy. I don't think we will get Wall. X will be sweet enough if it happens. Lance, nearly as sweet.

penguin 12 years, 2 months ago

ya it is 1. I for some reason just forgot that we were already 1 over the limit if everyone stays. Thanks for the correction to many of the posters.

hometownhawk 12 years, 2 months ago

It's really not that hard, Purist. Simple addition and subtraction. We now have 1 scholarship to give.

Jaminrawk 12 years, 2 months ago

The best case scenario is we add X and CJ (walk-on) and then Morningstar gives up his scolarship and Lance Stephenson comes in. They are both swingmen so they can certainly both be on the court at the same time. Interesting to say the least ...

USAF_J_Hawk 12 years, 2 months ago

First of all, thank you to Ty and Q, I'm sure you'll land at a good school and your experience here will help you become leaders wherever you go. As for the scholarship issue, there was already talk of Roger Morningstar paying for Brady wich would in turn still be two available scholarships, now lets talk X and Stephenson or Orton if possible! As noted before CJ covered by the evil empire.

nammyjignigh 12 years, 2 months ago

Q and Big Apple, thank you so much for helping the young Hawks dominate the Big XII.

Luckily for the program, this is addition by subtraction. Good luck in the future and anyone who is a sportsbook junkie, lay some money on the Hawks in 2010.

And remember, no one better be eating any fishsticks.

justanotherfan 12 years, 2 months ago

Scholarships this past season:

Collins, Thomas, Morningstar, Reed, Taylor, Mk. Morris, Mc. Morris, Little, Releford, Appleton, Aldrich - by my count that's 11.

D-1 programs are allowed 13 scholarships. As I recall, we lost one because of violations, but if I remember correctly, we get it back this year, so we should have the full 13.

Outgoing are Appleton and Thomas. Incoming are Withey, Thomas Robinson and Elijah Johnson.

That puts us at 12.

That means there is one left, and that's before we get decisions from Cole and Sherron.

Prediction time.

Cole and Sherron both jump to the NBA. Jayhawk nation mourns the loss.

X stays at Memphis to hang with CJ. Jayhawk nation grits its teeth.

Lance Stephenson immediately signs with KU. The masses are calmed.

Daniel Orton decides he doesn't want to play with DeMarcus Cousins after all, signs with KU.

People get giddy.

Late signing of John Wall.

Jayhawk nation celebrates. Jaybate passes out from exhaustion after typing a 32,000 word post on the message board.

Just kidding about that last part.

TexasHawk44 12 years, 2 months ago

they have one scholarship. It is for either X or Lance. If Brady were to give up his, it would be two.

KU1992 12 years, 2 months ago

excellent break down just another fan.

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

justanotherfan: Thank You! LOL! I like your prediction! It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out. That's what makes this fun!

Michael Bratisax 12 years, 2 months ago

Losing Taylor will hurt our team next year. As far as Appleton great loss. He averaged only a few minutes of playing and most of that was during garbage time. Unfortunately, Taylor will leave shoes to fill. He showed his explosiveness (maybe not often enough) but he had the skill to be a star at Kansas. I just hope that we can make up his loss by adding either Xavier or Lance. I'm kind of surprised that I haven't heard anything about Quintrell. Maybe now we can go after Daniel Orton.

nammyjignigh 12 years, 2 months ago

Orton isn't a good fit for this team. He's probably the better teammate, but the Jayhawks need Xavier and Sir Lancelot.

penguin 12 years, 2 months ago

Ummmm Taylor is not leaving....its Quintrell.

Michael Bratisax 12 years, 2 months ago

Ummm..that was pretty stupid. Hard to believe I graduated from Kansas and not dyslexic. I obviously mixed up Taylor and Thomas This might prove to be a blessing.

Eric Williams 12 years, 2 months ago

13 scholarships:

  1. Sherron Collins
  2. Cole Aldrich
  3. Brady Morningstar
  4. Marcus Morris
  5. Markieff Morris
  6. Jeff Withey
  7. Elijah Johnson
  8. Thomas Robinson
  9. Mario Little
  10. Tyshawn Taylor
  11. Travis Releford
  12. Tyrel Reed

Walk-ons Chase Buford Jordan Juenemann Connor Teahen

That leaves one free (Xavier) and CJ (sorry for previous post, for got the Yankees situation).

There is NO WAY that we get X and Lance even if Brady gives up his scholarship. Those two play the same position.

Our depth is too deep at the 4/5 for Self to ask Brady to give up his schol and go after Orton.

rockchalkchick 12 years, 2 months ago

Thanks for everything, Tyrone and Quintrell. Best of luck to you!

Eric Williams 12 years, 2 months ago

Does anyone know when our Scholarship sanction is removed and we're allowed to have 15 scholarships again?

TexasHawk44 12 years, 2 months ago

Exactly when did Taylor transfer? Don't think so... At least read the story before you post.

Eric Williams 12 years, 2 months ago


Read the comments before you post. He already recognized the mistake.

rockchalkchick 12 years, 2 months ago

TexasHawk, he already realized his mistake, silly.

TexasHawk44 12 years, 2 months ago

It will be X or Lance or nothing, would be my guess. I think Wall is total long shot and Orton is not a fit unless Cole goes pro. My guess is that Self knows something nobody else does. Surprise there that he would know something that a bunch of us internet posters don't know, huh?

Thomas and Appleton did not just transfer at the same time on the same day for no reason. Self knows. In Self we trust... :)

Tribehawk 12 years, 2 months ago

Thank God Releford is staying. I really believe if he stays four years, he will be a stud by the time he's a senior. I'm willing to say he could be a lottery pick.

TexasHawk44 12 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, well, I don't have time to read every post on this board. But I do actually read the story. And I work for a living so there are delays between when my post is started and sent. But please accept my sincere apology for having missed someone else correcting them by 6 minutes... Count me "silly"...

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

You know what's interesting is that there seems to be a lot of talk about Lance Stephenson's Born Ready website and TV deal. Some are saying, at least according to Zagsblog, that their might be some elgibility issues with Stephenson. Probably a smoke screen, but something to consider.

Dale Kroening 12 years, 2 months ago

Why do you have to be an azz when someone errors with their post texashawk ? Not sure why your so arrogant and rude to fellow Jayhawk fans. Theres no need for it. It will be ok, so go take a damn volume and quit looking to jump on someone everytime they make a mistake. Geez get a life.

TexasHawk44 12 years, 2 months ago

I don't think it is a smoke screen. KU has real concerns about the website. Of course, if KU has concerns so will other programs. I think they are trying to find out more from the NCAA if it will be a violation. I don't remember who reported that besides zagsblog but I think it might have been Sporting News. I don't remember (so please fellow posters don't crucify me...), but from what I understand it is a legit concern.

milehighhawk 12 years, 2 months ago

Thanks to Quintrell & Tyrone for all your hard work this season, and best of luck with the rest of your career!

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

Texashawk: I should have said that it may have been a "Smoke Screen" by Self in order to "Buy His Time" with X. You need some type of an excuse when somebody of Lance's talent wants to commit to KU, but somebody just a little bit better just got released from their LOI. Yes, I also think it's a legitimate concern for the school about this website, but I also think it is giving Self some time to get through this weird recruiting saga.

TexasHawk44 12 years, 2 months ago


I am just an do I take a "volume"...oops, sorry, being an azz again, right? I assume you mean valium, but that would again be arrogant of me to assume something. Can't win, can I?

For the record, I am not looking to jump on anyone. I am not arrogant. And I am hardly the only one posting here that corrects people. In fact, cap10d, I believe you just took me behind the veritable woodshed and "jumped on" me for making a mistake and not having a "life". Am I right? Yup...Oops, being arrogant again, right?

CrodieBroyle 12 years, 2 months ago

We are going to be the deepest team in the country next year.

TexasHawk44 12 years, 2 months ago


Yeah, I think it may be a bit of a stall. You are right. But I do think there may be some real concern. It probably does buy KU some time with a legit concern, I guess. Good point.

Lance Hobson 12 years, 2 months ago

We're not getting anybody new. X will not choose KU, and Lance will get sick of being yanked around and go somewhere else. I expect Cole to be leaving as well, so that hurts. Maybe we'll pick up a Juco guy from the scrap heap.

Omari Miller 12 years, 2 months ago

<p> reports that: 1) Self is travelling to Memphis to talk with CJ; and 2) Orton and his family are talking with KU. I don't have a rivals account, so if anyone here does, I'd appreciate a summary on the details of these two articles.

TexasHawk44 12 years, 2 months ago

Strikewso: Is your name really Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh? You sure as hell sound like it. Or you are some Mizzou or Memphis crasher... in which case, you truly are a donkey... hope that wasn't too arrogant for you cap10d

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

omari: It's so hard to predict right now! Who knows what anybody is really going to do. I don't think Orton is going anywhere, but take a look at this zagsblog story. You have to scroll down to the bottom for Orton's info. Also, in that rivals information, I thought it was pretty cool that Self was flying to Memphis to recruit CJ. Pretty smart if you ask me!

TexasHawk44 12 years, 2 months ago

did Orton get released from UK? Last I heard, he had not. Anyone with an update? If he hasn't, how can Self talk to him? Doesn't make sense to me.

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

Also, can somebody help me out? Does anybody know anything about CJ? Is he really that good? I know he's better than a typical walk-on, but is it legit to think he can really produce some major minutes for KU in the near future. I have no idea so that is why I'm asking?

Michael Bratisax 12 years, 2 months ago

'Exactly when did Taylor transfer? Don't think so... At least read the story before you post.

Like I said, a stupid mistake. Tell me, what's it like being perfect?

Joseph Kuebel 12 years, 2 months ago

It seems to me as though it was known Qintrell planned on transferring for a WHILE. He was out top recruit last year and didn't have close to the playing time as EITHER of the twins.

BTW...for those of you who said KU would use a scholarship on CJ Henry are completely mistaken, CJ doesn't use a scholarship as the Yankees (who put that they would pay out of pocket for any school he went to if his pro baseball career didn't work out-which it obvoiusly didn't) will pay for his tuition.

Rock Chalk. Let's get X, CJ, and a nice plus of (Orton, Lance, or Wall) with these two scholarships and lock up the National Championship BABY!

chazbone61 12 years, 2 months ago

Sorry to see them go.hope they find the right university for them to sucsseed good luck where ever you gents go thanks for your time here at KU. remember Rock Chalk JayHawk

mikehawk 12 years, 2 months ago

I hate this side of the business. Hopefully, they weren't forced out, and hopefully they will find the playing time and happiness they seek elsewhere, taking with them good feelings and memories. They seem to be doing this with class, at least publically. Good luck guys. Thanks for all you did this year for KU.

Dale Kroening 12 years, 2 months ago

No correction of my post Texashawk ? I know its killing you, but atleast thats a start. Rock Chalk Jayhawk

Tyler Daniels 12 years, 2 months ago

This is almost a given that Xavier and CJ are coming to KU! And it also means Morningstar won't have to give up his scholarship!!!

and Strikewso - Cole and Collins won't leave, they hinted that after they lost to Michigan St. Xavier and CJ are heavily leaning towards KU and I read today on (not completely read because I don't have an account) that Coach Self made the first step in the process to get Xavier and CJ (which might be Appleton and Thomas leaving). If KU gets both Xavier and CJ and another recruit, which will probably be Orton (Wall is out of the question because he isn't even considering KU, probably scared of Collins.) we'll be pretty scary!

Robert Brock 12 years, 2 months ago

Wow, I hope not everyone believes that X and/or Lance as well as Orton coming to KU is basically a done deal. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We will really be fortunate if we can get one out of that group after such an insane year of recruiting.

rockchalker07 12 years, 2 months ago

Has anyone read these comments by Jason Whitlock?

From the KC Star posted 04/03/2009:

It feels as if Calipari’s move to Kentucky has reopened the recruiting of every kid in the top 25, and if you believe the gossip in Detroit, Bill Self could land as many as three of the big-time prospects.

Yes, three additional prospects, not just Xavier Henry,’s No. 3 player and No. 1 shooting guard. Of course you know that Henry was supposed to go to Memphis and play for Calipari. Henry, from Oklahoma City, has an out in his letter of intent, and everyone believes he is now headed to Kansas.

Well, I had a coach swear to me early Friday morning over drinks at the Canadian Ballet that Lance Stephenson would join Henry at Kansas. Yes, Stephenson and Henry play the same position. Yes, Stephenson,’s No. 9 player and No. 2 big guard, delayed committing to Kansas once it became obvious Henry might join the Jayhawks.

OK, here’s the kicker. Daniel Orton,’s No. 22 player and a Kentucky-Gillispie recruit, is allegedly considering asking Kentucky for a release and signing with the Jayhawks. Orton is a 6-10 post player.

Honestly, it would be a miracle if all three of these players ended up at Kansas. If Sherron Collins and Cole Aldrich return next season, all it would take is one of these potential recruits to join Biggie and C-Diddy to make Kansas a national-title favorite.

If all three come to Lawrence, I’d expect the Jayhawks to make a run at an undefeated season.

Seriously, the team would have a chance to go down in history as one of the all-time greats, especially during the era of one and done/straight from high school to the pros.

Justin Diederich 12 years, 2 months ago

I think we need to worry about Cole staying another year. We don't need Orton if Cole stays. Does anybody know when sherron and cole are going to decide?

Robert Buckles 12 years, 2 months ago

I don't blame Appleton he would have not seen much playing time. But man I hoped Thomas would stay he has a ton of talent Good luck Guys

robert1023 12 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Ann Oneill 12 years, 2 months ago

I don't think they were forced out because these are players that Self recruited himself. It would be different if there was a new coach coming in that wanted to run a system that the players might not be a good fit for. I'm sorry to see them go.

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

milehawk: I can almost gurantee that there was some "Push" by Self to let Q and Appleton know exactly where they stand. Obviously, we will never know the true details of how it was put, but I'm sure Self was honest and very direct towards the future of the program. Just my opinion, but I'm absolutely positive there was a heart to heart in relation to the two players.

I hate this side of college athletics, but as I stated last week in a post there is a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to "Athletic Scholarships". Most people think that just because you sign a LOI (Letter of Intent) to a specific university that you, as an athlete, are "Guranteed" four years of being on the team. Not true my friends!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a 1 year renewable agreement or scholarship at the end of each season with the school, athletic director, and most of all the coach. Most people don't want to hear about this side of college athletics, but Self had to do what he had to do. I don't agree with it, but if you want to stay in the "Elite" club it is a necessary practice and I understand what Self has to do to stay on top.

Now, things might have changed over the years, but I wish coach's would be upfront about the one very important fact..........SCHOLARSHIPS ARE 1 YEAR RENEWABLE CONTRACTS IN ESSESNCE. I don't know for sure, but I'm sure this really isn't a topic of conversation with recruits. You don't want to be planing any "Bad Ideas" in the minds of recruits. No matter if you play basketball or any sport for that fact, if an athlete decides not to play basketball then their academic portion of their scholarship will still be paid for by the university. Many times, most coaches leave out that very important part, that their academics will still be paid for. I also udnerstand the athletes perspective because if you're being forced out to some degree then why would stay at a school, not play basketball, and continue with your academics. It happens, but just not very often. Kids want to play ball and I don't blame them. I just wish that one aspect of the recruiting was brought up when these coaches sit down with these athletes and their families. Keep doing what you're doing Self, You are doing a fantastic job!!!!!!!

Steve Brown 12 years, 2 months ago

Thanks to Quintrell & Tyrone for all your hard work this season, and best of luck with the rest of your career & remember once a jayhawk ALWAYS a jayhawk. Please return to AFH after your playing days and know you always have a home here.

Couple of schools are getting some nice talent and good guys I do trust you find your playing time and what you are looking for.

hydrohawk 12 years, 2 months ago

Strikewso, You are dead a$$ wrong. Not only is everyone coming back but X playing in the phog next year is a lock (and a very obvious one at that).

Danny Hernandez 12 years, 2 months ago

Q and T, I'm really disappointed you both chose to transfer. I understand that the nature of an athlete is to start and be both competitive and contributing to the team. I really believed that Tyrone would have improved to the point of probably getting some solid minutes next year, especially with his senior leadership. As for Q, I saw him in a light similar to Darnell. Darnell didn't get a lot of minutes his frosh and soph year but he was a beast by the time his senior year rolled around. We couldn't have won the trophy without him and that is how I saw Q. Just wish it wasn't about instant gratification all the time. Good luck to you both and know you'll always be Jayhawks to me.

100 12 years, 2 months ago



John Wall...


Welcome to the home of Wilt Chamberlain, James Naismith & Danny Manning

Omari Miller 12 years, 2 months ago

@kushaw: I agree. So much has been made of the quest to sign the Henry brothers, but this is the first that I've heard about an interested coach taking the initiative and showing the care to talk to CJ (who Xavier and father Carl are obviously concerned about being part of the equation).

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

100: You forgot Mario Chalmers! "The Shot", IMHO is better than Jordan's, Laetner's, and Houston's shot in 1983. The only shot that is better would be that of Keith Smart's for IU in 1987.

Eric Williams 12 years, 2 months ago

"Honestly, it would be a miracle if all three [Wall, Henry, Orton] of these players ended up at Kansas. If Sherron Collins and Cole Aldrich return next season, all it would take is one of these potential recruits to join Biggie and C-Diddy to make Kansas a national-title favorite."

As of right now we have ONE scholarship to give. Say it goes to Henry.

Okay, Brady gives up his. Say it goes to Wall.

Who gives up/transfers to get Orton? The most recruits we can get out of this is TWO.

Three if CJ transfers, because he won't use a scholarship.

Eric Williams 12 years, 2 months ago

For those that we're asking. On another message board I heard (from a UK fan) that Orton has indeed asked for a release, but has still not ruled out staying at UK. He just wants to see what else is out there.

As I see it here are the possible scenarios, ranging from most likely to least likely:

X + CJ, Lance X, Lance X + CJ, Orton X, Orton X + CJ, Wall X, Wall

Wall is looking to start, and with Sherron at the point, I see Wall going to Duke where he can be on a pre-season top 5 team and be the starting point guard. I know UNC is going after him, but they have a 0 % chance at repeating.

jayhawkinATL 12 years, 2 months ago

I believe the NCAA scholarship limit is 13. And we got the 13th one back about a year or two ago.

Jfanallways 12 years, 2 months ago

coming from someone who is bound to get called out himself . . .why the sudden interest in policing each others grammar? i come here to talk basketball not get an english lesson and bickering between yourselves doesnt make for very interesting reading. on another note i know it would be great to get these guys and throw every scholarship we have at them but what about next year? we dont have many seniors off the top of my head and what if these one and dones stays a few years?

yates33333 12 years, 2 months ago

Watch out justanotherfan you are going to be as popular as Jaybate, popular, not as analytical.

Robert Brock 12 years, 2 months ago

Look at Orton's situation. He can show up at KU and be one of five bigs, that is if Aldrich returns. MorrisX2, Withey, and Robinson is a solid collection of talent that is young, athletic and improving and not going league any time soon. Or he can stay at UK and play behind Cousins and Patterson, probably average around 20-25 min a game as a frosh next year. Then, Cousins and Patterson declare for the draft and he could be the man at UK as a Soph - that is a pretty good deal.

I watched Orton and Xavier's AAU team, Athlete's First play some games last summer at IAD in Carrolton and Next Level in Duncanville, TX and was really impressed with the skill level of both players. With Orton, his brute strength and ability to get position on both sides are truly impressive and advanced. He has some great moves around the basket and good agility for his frame.

What stood out the most, though, was his lack of composure. His relentless patronizing of the refs earned two ejections at the IAD in Carrolton. At one point in a game at the Next Level with Self, Capel, Donovan and Travis Ford watching intently, he basically refused to even play and walked off the court and took himself out the game. It was actually comical how uninspired his play was at times.

Now, this was AAU basketball and uninspired play is expected and is usually the norm. Who knows what the deal was? Xavier was also injured and on IR at the Next Level Tourny and the team just wasn’t the same. Orton has true talent though and when he wants to score he can do whatever he wants down low. I just hope what I saw those days was an anomaly. When he gets to college and coaches work with him on his low post game, he could be unstoppable.

JBurtin 12 years, 2 months ago

First of all, thank you to Quintrell Thomas and Tyrone Appleton.

I agree that Quintrell's hard working style could have helped him to develop into one heck of a player for us by his Junior and Senior years, but he would be taking a heck of a risk that the Morris Twins would still be here, and we'd sign other elite post players that would be tough to beat for playing time.

I can't blame Appleton for heading out either. He only has one more year to play, and we're adding yet another elite guard for him to compete with next year. Being a Juco player means that you really don't get very much time to develop and gel with a team, and his time is running very thin.

I hope that wherever you guys end up, you tear up the court and have the time of your lives.

My prediction:

With the 2 transfers it has already been established that we have one scholarship open for next year.

Sherron stays because he is still only projected as a second rounder.

Cole is projected as a lottery pick, and already has a ring that he was a key factor in earning. His dad has also been recently laid off from his job, and his family could probably use the help. He'll head on to greener pastures.

This leaves us 2 scholarships open.

Xavier Henry and his brother C.J. come here together to try and win a championship. X on scholarship, C.J. not on scholarship.

2 different scenarios branch off in my head from this:

1)Orton sees a chance to play the same style of basketball that he would have played under Billy Gillespie, and sees that he might pick up a ring in the process. He takes the final scholarship and we roll.

2)Orton is scared off by our depth in the post and stays at Kentucky. C.J. ends up taking the final scholarship after all.

Of the 2 scenarios, I'd have to say that number 2 is the one that I'm really leaning towards. I think we're just too late on getting in on Orton. He already had his heart set on Kentucky, and it's not as if he'll be playing for a bad coach.

Brian Conrad 12 years, 2 months ago

wow . some fans spewing complete non facts. the only one right is Kushaw. he has it right. texashawk44 so far off... quit smoking that stuff! stikeswo completley nuts. Our biggest hope is for Sherron to come out soon and say he is returning. Cole will be back. all the rest will fall in line for GREAT next year. Cole and Sherron will see all the help on the way. some very poor math out there the scholarship thing is not a problem.. UK was only to have 1 scholarship , Orton staying at UK , but still recruiting like they have 7. someone was spewing how good uk was going to be with Meeks.. he declared for draft 5 minutes after NC game over , also declared for NBA Blair from Pitt & Blake from OU...and AGAIN if CJ & X come CJ has his scholaship already paid for by Yankees not hit for KU. If Lance , CJ , X all want to come it will work! Self did not travel to Memphis for ribs.

Jack Wilson 12 years, 2 months ago

First, thanks Quintrell and Tyrone. You'll do great in a better situation for your talents. I think you both could have done fine here. Just how the cards fell.

I have said this for a bit now .. I think we're not going to get either X or Stephenson. I think X's family is trying to sway him away from KU, and I think Stephenson would have committed if he wanted to come here. Orton is a pipe dream.

jw1122 12 years, 2 months ago

So let's discuss what happens if the unthinkable occurs -- Henry, Orton, AND Wall decide they want to play here. Where do we get a third scholarship? Do we send ANOTHER player packing? Tyrel Reed is the only other Kansas native that can pay in-state tuition. Does he have the finances to do that? Or would it be more likely to drop an out-of-state bench player?

Or is the most likely reaction that Self would only take two of the three recruits and simply give up on the third?

jw1122 12 years, 2 months ago

Sorry I meant Henry, Orton, and Stephenson.

HighEliteMajor: I'm confused by your comments. Have you read any of the latest news on Henry, and do you understand the pedigree of Jayhawks in his family? His father, his mother, and his mother's sister all attended KU. Carl has said that Xavier wants to be a jayhawk.

Stephenson likely hasn't signed because of the situation with Henry.

Are you trolling or do you seriously believe, with any factual backing, in what you just wrote?

thisis 12 years, 2 months ago

I think Coach is doing an incredible job. These recruits possibly coming is very exciting to think about.

But does anyone worry about how frequently players transfer out of KU under Coach Self? Seems like almost every year people transfer out. Could this look unfavorably to potential future recruits?

JBurtin 12 years, 2 months ago

Nobody was forced out of a scholarship and anybody that thinks so has their head in a very dark and smelly place.

It's not that hard for these kids to figure out their situation.

If Appleton couldn't crack the rotation without Elijah Johnson, he certainly wasn't going to get PT next year.

Quintrell knew that he had a shot at playing later in his career, but he also knows that the Morris twins are likely 4 year guys, and we'll keep signing elite talent that would probably leapfrog him in the rotation.

Why would anyone assume that these kids were so stupid that they couldn't figure this out for themselves and make a tough decision based on their observations?

I guess it always has to be some kind of a dark room, cloak and dagger situation for some fans. Couldn't it just as easily (and more likely) be a straightforward conversation about the likelihood of playing time?

JHWKNMIZRY 12 years, 2 months ago

These are the types of guys who will surprize a lot of people when they get playing time. Somebody is going to get some great players.

BCRavenJHawkfan 12 years, 2 months ago


Nice clip on Orton. He also has that Bill Walton off the glass jumper, something I wish more guys would develop.

Mitch_4_KU 12 years, 2 months ago

PUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so disappointed in this situation. I personally know a young man who was recruited by Ted Owens, started as a freshman, was/is an avid KU fan all his life, BUT he didn't fit with Larry Browns type of play and was given the old heave- ho by KU. I don't know for a fact that it broke his heart but I know it hurt and hurt bad. He is doing very well as a coach in DIV II. I don't have to mention his name, most KU fans will know. His treatment by KU made the 88 championship just a bit tainted to me. He would have graduated before then but I still hated the fact that LB thought less of KU's commitment to a young man than winning. Maybe QT and TA are good with this, maybe not. I for one would have been happy to watch them and if we didn't win all the games, I would have still went to a few games, watched them all on TV, and been just peachy. If we are lucky and get CJ,X &/or Stephenson, then good, but I will always feel a little bad about how they got here. Integrity.... look it up, it is a good word.

Rock Chalk, WIN! (we should stand for more than this.)

jaybate 12 years, 2 months ago

Appleton and Thomas leaving can be a big plus, or big minus, for Self recruiting downstream.

If Self can place Appleton and Thomas at respectable Okie Baller programs, this is going to be a huge plus for Self. It means he can tell recruits not only that he looks after the guys who are good enough, but he looks after the guys who are not. This means players that we need to pick up late to fill holes in the team, because of unexpected departures, or because we lose out on blue chips at the last minute, will not hesitate to come to KU for a year and give it a shot.

Even better, if Self can place Appleton and Thomas with Okie Baller programs, then the way they learned to play at KU will make them plug and play at their next stop, which is ideal for Appleton and Thomas and for the Okie Baller coach that gets them.

The Okie Baller Mafia is about to be tested.

Appleton and Thomas could be a package to Norm Roberts, Buzz Williams, Leonard Hamilton, or Scott Sutton.

If Self cannot place them, then these sorts of players have to tell Coach Self, when he is trying to plug holes, that they'd like to come to KU, but, sorry, they're going to places that guarranty more PT, because they are less loaded with talent.

jaybate 12 years, 2 months ago


I am with you on this. Players who abide by the rules and put out the effort need to be looked after, whether they pan out or not. My hope is that Self has already placed them at another program. If he is just cutting them loose, because the world is dog eat dog for players, but Bill Self has job security with a long contract, then it would be his bad. But I believe the Okie Baller Mafia is going to step up and take care of these guys. Its good for KU. Its good for the Okie Baller Mafia, and its good for the players. Bill Self's seconds can really help some of the Okie Baller schools get better, or at least give them the depth they need.

Doug LeMoine 12 years, 2 months ago

BrockIII: Thanks for the comment. Please feel free to post here with jaybate-like frequency if you've got that kind of information and first-hand experience. And I'd agree that Orton's "motor" is questionable. The guy we really missed out on, in my opinion, is Snaer, who appears to be Collins-like in his desire to beat people.

Brian Powell 12 years, 2 months ago

The word two days ago was that Sherron was staying. Anyone else heard these rumors?

What is the timetable for Sherron and Cole? It all starts there..

stravinsky 12 years, 2 months ago

Jaybate's Okie Baller Mafia conspiracy theories still make me laugh.

... Although they usually seem to be pretty much on the money, so no diss.

I'd be stoked if we just picked up the henry brothers. Also grabbing Lance or Orton or something would just be flat out redonkulous.

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

jburtin: I understand your perspective and agree with you that kids aren't stupid, but it's not as black and white as you make it out to be. You seem pretty smart and very educated, which is a great trait, but you became that way through your experiences. Now, I do give credit to TV and the internet because families and athletes are definitely becoming more educated and savy when it comes to recruiting, but you only believe what the person in front of you is telling. Here is my point:

Bill Self lost virtually everybody from last year's team. It is in Bill Self's job description to put the best product on the court to compete at the highest level and in order to do that after losing 6 players and a National Championship is to sign as many talented young players as you can the following year. That is exactly what Bill Self did, but it also comes at an expense to someone. Now most 17 and 18 year olds and their families won't realize how devasting this could be to your career if you come in with a 6 or 7 player recruiting class and you're the "Odd Man Out". To them and their families, all they see is 6 players gone to professional contracts and instant playing time. Of course they understand that "Hard Work" is going to get them there, but I can make a pretty good assumption that Bill Self never said during Quintrell's recruing, "We hope for you to produce when you're a junior or senior, Quintrell". Now, I don't know for sure about that last part, but I'm sure Bill Self was selling KU and the great opportunity at a chance for instant playing time. Hindsight is 20/20, but I agree that kids aren't as stupid as you think, but I don't a lot of these big-time recruits and their families are completely educated on the process of recruiting and how scholarships really work.

If I had a son or daughter and they were being recruited for basketball, I would be very cautious about being the product or being a part of a large recruiting class (5,6,7 players) for a major universtiy. Sometimes you just know you're that good, but Q was good that needed developing. Who knows what Bill Self said to him. Most likely, the universitites are looking for instant gratification and if you're the odd man out or fall out of the coaches good graces then it can make for a very trying experience. When you have a coach recruiting you and telling you great things it's easy to think "How Great You Are", but sometimes those clouded praises aren't often realistic when you show up on campus. A Kid may think one thing and the coach has a totally different perspective.

continued in next post

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

In conclusion, I think there are a lot of components involved. Yes, I do agree that kids are savy in today's recruiting world, but if you're a family and athlete that doesn't have any background or experience through this world of college athletic recruiting, then you can learn the hard way real quick how "Cut-Throat" it really is. I think both of these situations, Q and Appleton, can be a direct result of how large last year's recruiting class was in numbers. Somebody was going to be left out and it happened to be Appleton and Q. We'll never know what was said or how it was said, but I would tend to lean towards the idea that Self talked up his university and basketball program, as well as he should, and gave those recruits a story about how they had a great opportunity to compete for playing time instantly. Any competitve athlete will tell you that sounds really great and is usually up for the challenge, but in this case it really isn't the best situation, especially for the ones that are the odd man out.

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

coonrod: Thanks for the kind words. It's all speculation like I've said, but my only source of info, because I'm not a journalist, are the same avenues that you have. The Internet! I just read a bunch of stuff and come to my only conclusions and opinions and comment on that, but I'm also very cautious on who to believe.

Robert Buckles 12 years, 2 months ago

Orton + Wall that is what we need . X and CJ they just are not coming CJ doesn't want to wait to play and there is something about KU X does't like don't know why for sure just get that feeling. With Q leaving and Cole most likly headed to the NBA we need a big and Orton is that.

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

Mitch4KU: Interesting stuff! I like little tidbits like that. I just did a quick 3 minute search on google to try and learn who that mystery KU basketball was and I just decided I didn't want to spend any more time trying to find it. If you didn't mind, I would like to know or learn who that specifically was? Good Stuff!

Eric Williams 12 years, 2 months ago

Let's address the issue that some of you are raising. Does Bill Self consistently force players out?

David Padgett (04) Omar Wilkes (04) Alex Galindo (05) Nick Bahe (05) J.R. Giddens (05) C.J. Giles (06) Michah Downs (06) Quintrell Thomas (09) Tyrone Appleton (09)

Left early for NBA Julian Wright (07) Brandon Rush (08) Mario Chalmers (08) Darrell Arthur (08)

The only players that "transferred" that I think could have gotten consistent minutes are Padgett and Galindo.

Self's pattern, and I completely agree with it, is to recruit each position every year. Just cause you're recruited doesn't guarantee you 20-25 minutes a game. I'm sorry but the few times I saw Quintrell this year he looked out of place, his footwork was sloppy and he got in to quick foul trouble (see @ Mizzou). Does that mean Quintrell is not good enough? No. It means that he didn't learn the system.

Early in the season Quintrell expressed his dissatisfaction with his PT, and I think Bill Self is doing the "right" thing as a coach. Did he encourage QT to transfer? I don't know and neither do you.

Which is more fair, for a coach to keep a player on the bench for 3 years in hopes that he plays his Senior year, or help that kid find a program that he can step in and get quality PT with a chance to play basketball?

I think QT will have a good college career, not great but good, perhaps go back to a school near Pennsylvania so his family can attend the games easier.

I do feel a little bad for Tyrone, since he only has 1 year of eligibility left and he'll have to sit out a year as well. He's not an NBA guard, so him transferring has to give him an empty feeling of not having a "college home".

On to recruiting: Cole will stay. I know his family situation, but his family also said "Do what's best for YOU, we'll be fine."

Cole would be a late lottery pick, but if he comes back and improves is offensive game, he can be a high lottery pick. If he wins another NC or decides to graduate, you'll see his name in the rafters. If he leaves now, he'll struggle in the NBA to establish an offensive game against better defenders. He'll come back for "at least" one year, no guarantees after that.

Alan Halvorsen 12 years, 2 months ago

What a self-less thing these two are doing....All jayhawk nation is proud of you. When we make it to the final four next year, please don't forget these two everyone.

yovoy 12 years, 2 months ago

i really figured that 'q' would become our next d-jack, and that he would do it sooner. i never got a feel for appleton, as he never looked comfortable, but he looked like he could've done some things. hard to do when you're sitting around watching "others".

i think with the right opportunity that those 2 and releford could really contribute, and rather quickly. i'm sorry to see them go, but i'd really like them to be able to be somewhere where they can shine, like i'd hoped they would here.

good luck to both of them.

RockChalkJayBlog 12 years, 2 months ago

I can't wait for this all to be over with because reading speculation on recruiting stories is only just nauseating.

Justin Diederich 12 years, 2 months ago

To all of you who thinks that Coach Self pushed these players away, think again. Don't forget that QT was thinking about transfering first semester. Tyrone knows that sherreon is probably coming back and he would not get to play. I think Cole stays one more year, we get the Henry bro's and all is well.

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

justinump20: You are right that QT was probably thinking about transferring first semester, but do you really think he would have chosen KU as a school if he knew that was how he was going to feel in November or December? Again, all speculation, but I'm leaning towards the assessment that QT was told he would have a great opportunity to challenge for instant playing time during his recruitment. When you are told things like as an 18 year old and they don't work out like you envision you become frustrated, confused, and a little embarassed toward everyone who knew you back home. In this case QT probably feels like he left himself down and some others back home in New Jerseyand the only way to not feel like that is to prove to everyone that you can be successful at another school.

Jburtin brough up a good point earlier that kids are savy and QT probably realized the situation he was in early in the season. I bet if he had the opportunity to do it all over again he would have chosen another school. On the flip side, he may have always regretted for at least not trying. It really is a tough situation.

Ray March 12 years, 2 months ago

it's good to get X and all, but this is kind of sad for them. i figured somebody on the team would be "encouraged" to get some P.T. elsewhere. these 2 have come in with very little playing time and have represented us with hard work and class. i am sure it was their decision, but the situation they're in was "we're trying to get Xavier and his brother. we need 2 scholarships. it may be in your best interest to get some playing time elsewhere..." etc... even though i'm sure Self didn't say "get out", they knew the situation. it's kind of sad, like we're over-recruiting when we have no spots.

the good news: this probably gets us close to a lock on X!

shoedee 12 years, 2 months ago

thisis - on transfers, you have to evaluate each one individually.

Padgett- Roy recruit who after one year got beat up by student body in the UDK. His freshman year he reminded too many of great underachiever Chenowith. Padgett also felt that Self didn't let him play enough facing the basket. At the end of the day, he played for a coach who didn't recruit him, so he transferred. He had a solid career at Louisville but would not have done well with our athletic bigs.

Wilkes- understood he would play very little as Self's guard recruits were better than him, transferred to Cal and did not play out his eligibility, skipping out senior year. He was pretty good at Cal but, again, a Roy recruit.

Giddens- Moon Bar anyone? Got kicked off the team because of fighting. Left bar with other players but later went back by himself looking for trouble. Head case. Left and we filled his scholarship with B.Rush! Went on to have a good career at NM.

Downs- naturally gifted but head case. Spoke of jumping straight to NBA from high school, but could not even break the starting 5 at Gonzaga by senior year! How about jumping straight from junior year to starting by senior year? He was more of a pariah than a help to the team and would have disrupted the team chemistry we had from 2006-08, had he stayed.

Giles- another head case. Got got kicked off team for battery charge, something he got in weeks of coming off a previous suspension. Eventually got kicked off the Oregon St. team he transferred to as well.

Galindo- I actually believe Galindo is the one recruit who left who could have helped. Pretty good shooter, transferred to F. International, became their star, though they didn't win much. He transferred to get closer to family. Galindo remained close to RussRob over the years and later wondered "what if" he stayed?

TA and QT could be great role players and I will wonder "what if" they had stayed. But Self is recruiting at such an elite level that it's getting more difficult for everyone to get the playing time they desire. ... it is KU after all, right?! Just think how good J. Case would have been on 99% of the teams out there ... or any of Roy's teams? Could you imagine recruiting a guy who was thought of as the next "Jeff Boschee" only to have him get little PT over 4 years, even after a red-shirt year?! At the end of the day, TA and QT want to play ... that's the bottomline ... yet with the guys coming in, their prospects don't look great.

I started following KU basketball around the Kellogg, Thompson, Manning, Dreiling era. I never imagined we would begin recruiting on this level. Roy was good at KU but Self has taken our recruiting to a whole new level. Don't get me wrong ... Pierce, LaFrentz, Vaughn, Collison, Hinrich, Gooden, Simien were amazing recruits, ... but when Self is done at KU, he will have far more of his guys' numbers hanging in the rafters of Allen.

esque 12 years, 2 months ago

I seem to recall reading that Self ended his recruitment of Daniel Orton when Thomas Robinson committed. Does this ring a bell to anyone else?

Tony Bandle 12 years, 2 months ago

There is only one certainly in this situation.....currently everything not actually consummated is UNCERTAIN!!

justanotherfan - Hilarious and clever post...kudos

kushaw - You just qualified for the Jaybate [ Heavyweight] Poster classification

100 - Why not...why the heck not!!! Nice list!!

jhawk613 - Unfortunately, the 13 scholarship limit is the current NCAA total..15 schollies would be SWEET!!

Whoever posted that a 35,000 word post would wear out Jaybate...c'mon, that's a lunch break for the big guy!!

Class continues on the site - to so many of you who posted sincere regret, best wishes and appreciation to Tyrone and Quintrell. I can't imagine if I had to give up my claim as a Jayhawk. I know this is probably the better move for both of these young men's careers but it's got to hurt like hell!!!

Good luck, gentlemen and God Bless.

Tony Bandle 12 years, 2 months ago

OOPs, forgot to turn on my spell Czech......certainty, not certainly, but feel free to rip me..I can take it:}

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

oakvillejhawk: LOL! My posts rarely bleed over to the second post if it ever does then I guess that means it is really important. If you care, it is really difficult for me to write that much because I lose my train of thought in mid-sentence so easily. LOL! Where Jaybates seem to very easy, free flowing, and just flows off the keyboard; Mine on the other hand are a constant struggle. LOL!

B60 12 years, 2 months ago

Do you really think that Self is going after Orton? He already didn't offer a scholarship which was why Orton signed with Kentucky. What is changing? I don't see it.

Matt Bowers 12 years, 2 months ago

Appleton and Thomas were two players I wanted to see stick around. They are not selfish, they are team first, hard working, and good. It is too bad that this is what is best for our program. I trust in Coach Self, but this hurts.

Good luck to the two of you. I will look for you at the other major institutions and you had better produce!

Rock Chalk for life

100 12 years, 2 months ago

There appears to be some UK fans on the board. Lots of negative comments on two kids who made a good choice for their future, and greatly benefitted from Coach Self.


For the record, our guys aren't stupid. These highly touted kids will turn into great college players, and had a year of excellent player development with the best coaching staff in the nation.

Thanks to Appleton & Thomas -- they will use this time at KU to their benefit, I guarantee you that.

They're both smart kids and hard workers.

Todd Hamlin 12 years, 2 months ago

As they say in sports talk radio, first time, long time. It's great to be a part of jayhawk nation! I hate to see QT and TA leave, I had high hopes for these kids. I wish them the best of luck in their future endeavors.

100 12 years, 2 months ago

Wall & Collins on the same team would be dynamite. You actually could run the two together.

This would be our quick sharpshooters with athletic seven footers, 75 points per half lineup:

  1. Aldrich
  2. Withey (or Morris)
  3. X
  4. Collins
  5. Wall

DoubleDD 12 years, 2 months ago

Very interesting of Self to be quite frank with Thomas and Appleton at this point or did Thomas and Appleton just express concerns for their basketball futures??? If Self was just being quite frank that would lead me to believe that Collins and Aldrich are returning for another year, and he needs to make some room for a least one more recruit. He wouldn't do that if he wasn't planning to fill the schollee. Sooo now what??? There is no way Orton is coming to KU. For one Self won't give him a free ride, in case you haven't notice we're stacked with post players (its like a Manning factory down there). That leaves Born Ready and the X - CJ package. Born Ready may have to go over seas for year if the NCAA crashes his dreams (he wanted to come to KU). That leaves the X or should I say CJ, I may be reaching but if you don't get CJ you don't get the X. Where CJ goes the X shall surely follow. All I can say is Self is a mastermind, I don't ever remember being on the edge of my seat with the recruiting process with Roy at the helm.

100 12 years, 2 months ago

If anyone wants to Carmelosize the situation, that's fine as long as they pass it to...

  1. Aldrich (above the red metal)
  2. Sherron
  3. X
  4. John Wall
  5. Withey (above the peachbasket)

Also they must buy into Mario Chalmers/ Self style D...

Other than that, as long as the Carmelosizers enjoy getting KU our sixth national championship trophy (& our 53rd conference champion trophy to boot)...

Things should be very good in Jayhawk nation...

David Howell 12 years, 2 months ago


You might be onto something with Self and recruits leaving early, but I don't think so. If you look back through your list there were several recruits with over-bearing dads (Padgett and Downs) and some that were homesick (Giles and Galindo I believe). Padgett wanted to be able to step outside more and shoot the 3, and Bill didn't see that in his future. Giddens left because he had used up all of his -9- lives and was an idiot. Downs if I remember correctly had a girl-friend issue, but that could have been Giles too.

Let's face it, Self is a great recruiter. I feel he is probably quite honest with players if they have issues about playing time and what it will take to get more time on the court. When you recruit quality kids each year who can play ball, they see where they fall in the pecking order and I don't feel they are misled. Not every kid is going to work out as recruiting mistakes are made. In judgement of talent or behavioral issues. Not everybody can play 20 minutes average per game.

I am sure that there were kids who could have been on the national championship team last year, but elected to tranfer elsewhere. Sure they are probably kicking themselves in the ass everyday, but at the time they made the best decision for themselves based on the facts.

To me Appleton was never a good fit. HCBS to my knowledge has never been too big on JUCO transfers (especially -2- in one year). Appleton's skill set never seemed to be anything our current team needed .......... As for Quintrell I don't feel he was ever given the proper chance. Of course we all aren't at practice everyday, so we have to trust that what HCBS saw led to to QT's lack of playing time. But as I mentioned about a week ago, there were plenty of times that neither Morris twin seemed to be on their game, and QT should have been given a chance. But then again we weren't sitting on the sidelines day in and day out trying to keep the Morris twins happy. With twins you have to keep them both happy to a degree. Because if one gets upset then it is probably see you later for the twins (=quick transfer). Thus, short of extreme improvement in their ability and attitudes over the off-season their recruitment could be a big miss. But I hope not, because when they were good our team benefited greatly. Great rebounders and trash bucket boys who really knew how to seal off their opponents on the offensive end.

jevans80 12 years, 2 months ago

Thank you Tyrone and Quintrell for your contributions to the University of Kansas and to the Jayhawk basketball team.

Tony Bandle 12 years, 2 months ago

Is anyone else getting a strange vibe about the Orton situation. Why would HCBS be talkng to his family UNLESS he knows that Condor is NOT coming back. Orton can look at KU and see, well there's no one over 6'-9" available until December and there could be MAJOR playing time...and don't anybody forget the Danny Manning/Big Man factor!!!

Also, let's try for X, CJ and Lance because Sherron isn't coming back either. ["baby's gotta eat"]. With the transfers and the going pros, that frees up 4 for Jeff W, one for X one for Lance and one for the Big O with CJ riding in on the Yanks ticket.

Why not start Taylor, Henry, Stephenson, Orton and Marcus, then you can follow up with Johnson, Releford, Robinson, Markieff and Little...and you still have Reed, Morningstar with Withey in December and CJ next year to join Taylor, Johnson and Woolridge plus two multistar blue chippers with X's and Lance's schollies!!!

The only problem is that I think the 2010 NC just became a much more slippery slope!!!

4myjhawks 12 years, 2 months ago

Thank you Ty and Quintrell for all your contributions to the team. You both will always be part of the Jayhawk family. I wish you the best where ever you decide to go. I know you will both succeed and be great players. Jayhawk Nation will miss you.

AaronxScythe 12 years, 2 months ago

Realistically, John Wall is interested in every top 10 school in the country. He would be nice to have as a good point guard but I don't see him attending KU.

X and CJ are most likely coming considering their whole family went to KU and Calipari going to Kentucky.

Lance would be great to have he's a great player but I have some problems with his past choices. He's already been arrested for groping a girl, would you want that to represent KU? Plus I hear he is taking a serious consideration towards Maryland for a shoe contract.

But do you think with all of these potential stars that we could have a (for all European soccer fans) Real Madrid situation where all the players try to act like the leader or best player making poor team chemistry? And who can we guarantee will stay with KU long enough for a more than one year? I don't want to see three freshmen stay with KU for one year and then just head off to the NBA. We have probably the best chance at the title next year. Next year, with only losing Collins, due to him being a senior, we could have an amazing team for the next 2-3 years, and LIKELY have a powerhouse like UNC's team this year. We could probably go undefeated too.

4jhawks4ku 12 years, 2 months ago

KU Shaw I think youre wrong about your appraisal of Bill Selfs approach to recruiting. I dont think he goes out and promises anything (ala blue sky Calipari). I dont think he bulls***ts any of the recruits by promising the world. Thats why we dont get a lot of these one and dones, cuzz he tells it like it is to them. The ones that feel they can earn their spot come, the others go to teams that promise instant playing time. Could be why X and Lance are waiting to see who he'll have next year because he wouldnt guarantee anything other than a chance to contribute to a great program. I think he's honest with these guys. Thats why we have good teams every year. You cant win with one year players only. ala Kstate Beasley Texas Durant etc. etc.

100 12 years, 2 months ago


That's right, Malik.

You're right & so is Self.

Go elsewhere & pay the price.

Start for KU (or play ninth man like Aldrich was last year) and be a future NBA all star.

Your case is solid and closed.

Bring Orton, Wall, X, CJ & Lance and let 'em fight to see which 3 sign first.

Even with Cole & Sherron staying (they're both intelligent they'll stay)...

We will have at least 2, as many as four, scholarships to give in the next week...

April 2010 will be a fun month!!!!

(ESPN radio said the other day we have a shot at going undefeated next year)

Eric Bernauer 12 years, 2 months ago

Many of you have mentioned that Morningstar may give back his scholarship and pay his own way. Where in the world did you get that idea? From Self? From Morningstar? From Morningstar's Dad? I know of no authoritative quotes on this, just a bunch of yahoos on this site who spout it like gospel. It seems like one know-nothing on this site starts the rumor based on nothing and then like sheep the others start repeating it. Before long people believe it just because it has been repeated so often. Could it be true? Sure, it could be and I'm not saying it isn't because I don't know. But, I don't think any of you know either.

AaronxScythe 12 years, 2 months ago

Oh and don't forget we had Elijah Johnson, who is according to, 5 best PG of these new recruits, I think he will be very promising. Some say he resembles Mario Chalmers, and in my opinion, Chalmers is one of if not the most important Kansas player since Manning.

AaronxScythe 12 years, 2 months ago

Many people believe that X is only going to be in college for one year before he joins the NBA, why doesnt Lance choose KU and play considerably this year, and next year be even better with the program and in his skills? He can't lose, KU is more than likely winning the national championship next year.

jaybate 12 years, 2 months ago

Note: I've chosen not to spec much on the X/Lance circus, but now that Self has acted regarding thinning the herd, I think there is room for a wee bit of analysis.

As I have said before, I'm waiting for Bill Self to do the unexpected here. He has been so quiet lately. He's obviously on the move like nobody's business. He seems to be saying as little as possible.

But behind the scenes he's cleared the decks by farming Appleton and Thomas to an Okie Baller program to be named later.

Everyone assumes he's making room for X and Lance. Some think he's positioning for Orton, too.

But Self's history has been to hang in for the supreme blue chips, but actually be working behind the scenes to land some other player, or players, when the blue chippers choose elsewhere. Rush popped up out of no where late in the process. Tyshawn kind of came out of nowhere, when Crean chose to enter the bottomless abyss of Bloomington. The Morris Twins popped up late in the recruiting process, if I recall correctly. And so on.

Self probably knows there is at most a modest chance that X, or Lance, will come to KU. X is most likely to go to UK. And Lance reputedly may have some problems that would make going to any college problematic at this time.

So: the best way to read between the lines here is to start with what Self shed--Appleton, a 1, and Thomas, a 4.

jaybate 12 years, 2 months ago

To shed a 1, Self must anticipate Reed is a good enough back-up at the PG and that either Collins is staying, or Collins is leaving and Self has someone at the PG ready to go out of the box. Tyshawn Taylor gave no indication of being the kind of 2 that could take over the PG next year, so scratch Taylor. Elijah Johnson did not even play PG in high school, so there is zero chance that he will be able to step in and start at PG in D1. Scratch Elijah. X does not play PG. Scratch X. Lance could probably take over the PG, but again, there seems to be some uncertainties about Lance's eligibility and willingness to commit to KU, after seeming a sure thing for a short time. It seems unlikely that Self would shed Appleton on the mere possibility that Lance was coming, so scratch Lance. We are left with either: a) Collins is staying, or b) Self has an ace PG up his sleave. John Wall, the guy who long ago trimmed KU from his list, would seem to be the only uncommitted guy out there that would fit the bill. It seems a long shot to me, but as Sherlock Holmes used to say, when you've eliminated everything that is impossible, what is left, however seemingly improbable, is probably the correct answer. Look for Collins, or Wall, at the PG next year.

To shed a 4, Self has to believe that a combo of Marcus Morris and Thomas Robinsion can handle the 4, or that some new recruit is in Self's hip pocket as I write. The former seems sufficiently plausible to rule out a miracle 4 hidden in Self's hip pocket.

No change at the 5 means Cole, Withey and Markieff can handle the 5, or, if Cole jumps, Withey and Markieff can hande the 5. The latter option if Cole were to jump seems a little daunting, but landing a 5 who can step in immediately ahead of Withey and Kieff seems even more daunting. Orton could be such a player and thus the speculation about him. But what more could Orton hope for than to be paired up with Demarcus Cousins in Lexington? Would playing with, or without Cole, be better? Not likely for a guy who has already decided he's comfortable with UK and with the UK players. Scratch Orton. There was a Russian big man that Self was rumored to be eyeing for awhile. This would be a classic Self move. But again, does Self really need to go more than 2 deep at both the 4 and 5? Not likely. So: Self stands pat at the 4 and 5.

The 2 is solid with Taylor, Reed and Johnson. Hence, a great 2 seems unlikely.

All that remains is the 3, where Self has Brady and Little. One guy is too short. One guy can't can the trey. X would be great, but he's probably not coming. Lance would work, but he has issues. My guess is: there's a three out there we don't know about yet--some guy who may be de-committing somewhere. Someone who is not necessarily an OAD.

KGphoto 12 years, 2 months ago

If Cole and Collins stay, I really don't care if we sign any of these guys. They are all cocky kids. They've all dissed KU at some point. Who needs them?

Gimme all the returnees. Add Robinson, Elijah and Withey, and I'm good.

Kansas isn't a desperate team. Kansas doesn't need one-and-done headliners.

I try to imagine the feeling of winning a title with a guy who won't spend enough time at KU to really get the experience. A guy who originally chose another school, but backed into Kansas as a mandatory step stone to a better life. The AFH rafters aren't built for guys like that. Those rafters deserve a story that equals the ring. Melo in Syracuse is a story that fits the school, but it isn't a story that fits Kansas.

I'd rather have hard work, determination, loyalty and perseverance, than a mad cash-grab, even if it does result in a title. Hey, maybe signing the #1 guy turns itself into a great story, but I don't see it happening. KU's great story should be built with guys like Collins, Morningstar, Aldrich, etc.

Paul Mitten 12 years, 2 months ago

Didn't Brandon Rush use Kansas as a stepping stone to a better life?

He wasn't going to go to KU until the very last minute, and then flirted with the NBA and only came back because of an ACL tear. You can't tell me he was overly eager to be at Kansas.

But without him, there's no ring.

mojayhawk 12 years, 2 months ago

The recruiting landscape has been changing for years, since The League has been plucking youngsters to fill their rosters. AND, it changed again when the rule came in to disallow taking kids straight out of High School.

Thus, the One and Done. Modern championship teams MUST consider some OAD's if they are going to compete. Their Names may not hang in the AFH rafters, but Championship banners may be the trade off. Coach Self is on top of it and looks at all options. Isn't this fun?

U2freak 12 years, 2 months ago

I like Morningstar and have no ill-feelings toward him at all, but if KU does need to free up one more scholly for an exceptional player to come in, I do not see why Brady's father would not be happy to pay for his son's tuition.

Gil Ek 12 years, 2 months ago

Rush finally did come and then stayed another year. The third year was because of the ACL. And I'll bet there will never be a day in his life when he ever regretted the third year at KU. INteresting to see what happens in the next few weeks. Whatever it is will put the recruiting class at the top. UK friend who lives near me thnks Orton is looking elsewhere.(KU, others) Anyone think one of the new inbounds would redshirt? Redshirt the Russian. I think Cole and Sherron stay, knowing what is ahead next year coupled with the sting of the MSU loss. Whatever happens, next few years are going to be fun, as usual. Rooock Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalk BABEEEEEEEE!

FairgroveJayhawk 12 years, 2 months ago

KGphoto - I basically feel the same way about watching players develop over 3 or 4 years so I can get a good feel for them as a person and watch their game progress.

This is a new era of oad's, mabe in a few years it will be "tad's" (take your pick). KU has never had a player come and go in one year. There have been some projected to do so but they never panned out. So I don't know exactly how I feel on the situation.

If the player that stays one year before jumping is a good ambassador to the univesity, enjoys his time here and fits into Self's program, then I would have to be all for it. If there would be a ton of drama that KU is not noteworthy of, then I will decline.

I'm sure Self has KU's tradition in mind when recruiting and the goals of being the most successful program in the country. I also believe he is straight forward with players and recruits.

I feel for Appleton and Thomas, I wish them the best of luck and successful careers. I'm sure ridding the pine sucked last year and I cannot fault you desire to excel elsewhere. Good luck and thank you for your hard work.

FairgroveJayhawk 12 years, 2 months ago

It wold be nice to have a definite confermation from Cole

chickenhawk 12 years, 2 months ago

I think everyone is getting ahead of themselves talking about Orton signing with us......he is still not look into him very deep although he has a tremendous up swing and a very high BB IQ. I hate to say it but Coach Cal's double drive offense fits perfect for Orton.

Eric Williams 12 years, 2 months ago

KU one-and-done's: Rush (returned b/c of ACL) Arthur (returned to be a lottery pick).


We CANNOT sign THREE recruits, so please STOP saying get Wall, X and Orton, or whatever combination.

We have 1 schol. to give, another IF Brady relinquishes his scholarship.

Don't worry about the OAD title that these kids have. Why? Because several years ago about 15 HS kids were OAD, only a few truly had the ability to play immediately in the NBA. HCBS will evaluate and give them their honest evaluation at the end of the season.

Mitch_4_KU 12 years, 2 months ago

kushaw...... Jeff Guiot.......... drgnslayer...Sorry if I made it sound like I knew what was said between HCBS and the two players, I don't. If anyone does, please let us know. I said it may good with them and maybe not. I would bet my pension that Bill doesn't say " Come to KU and we'll see how it works out after a year" when he recruits players. My point is that the timing is suspicious if you consider the Henrys being released from their commitment. I LOVE winning... I love KU... I HOPE everything is as we wish, these two wanted to leave and Bill tried to talk them into staying but was honest about their "future" with KU, which made them decide to leave. Good luck to them regardless. Perhaps its just me, I just feel a little queasy about this. As I said I know it happened before, not HCBS, but it wasn't about playing time, it was "Get lost". These scholarships are one year contracts they are not four year contracts. I will let it rest now................

rawkhawk 12 years, 2 months ago

I have a feeling everything is going to work out fine. Self helps Appleton and Thomas to find good schools where they can get quality PT. I think there is a good chance Cole and Sherron stay, and Xavier and CJ follow their family KU tradition. Could be dominating year for the Jayhawks. I'm sorry if my comment disappoints any Kentucky fans on this board.

rockemchalkemrobots 12 years, 2 months ago

Here's my proposed scenario, starting with the players this story is actually about:

Thomas: Transfers to St. Johns and plays for Roberts. Has solid career and develops into a second team Big East player.

Appleton: Transfers to Illinois State and, after sitting for a year, leads Jank's squad to a birth into the dance via winning their conference tourney.

X & CJ: Come to KU. CJ gets an NCAA waiver and sees some immediate time at PG, spelling Collins, embracing the role of team leader/elder statesman. X hones his skills and enjoys playing with CJ so much that he stays for 2 years, and helps defend our 2010 title.

Lance: Goes to St. John's. Norm coaches some sense into him and he stays three years to play alongside Q and challenge for a Big East title. In the meantime, Syracuse and UConn languish in the lower third of the Big East (but they'll probably still be #3 seeds in the tourney).

Orton: Goes to OU to help fill the void left by them Griffin boys.

Wall: Verbally commits to Duke and then heel-turns (pun intended) as Roy puts him in his fave five.

Jabate: Develops carpel tunnel. Spends his time lobbying the NCAA to have them omit NIT and CBI wins from program totals so that KU can actually make up some ground on Kentucky.

rockemchalkemrobots 12 years, 2 months ago


Cole: Stays and develops into the #2 pick of 2010 draft.

Walter Aldrich: Finds a job doing what he loves.

Collins: Finishes his career with a championship and the longest Senior Day speech in AFH history.

newyorkjayhawk 12 years, 2 months ago

From the way I understand it, I believe that if our roster stayed as is, with Withey, Robinson, and Johnson joining next year, we would have already been one scholarship over the limit. With the unfortunate departure of Appleton and Thomas (to whom I wish the best of luck), we only had one spot open. CJ does NOT need a scholarship as the NY Yankees are paying his way. So for those of you who think we have two spots available, we only have one scholarship available right now. I wasn't aware that Daniel Orton is considering backing out of UK, but if he would, we'd need one more scholarship to free up... With Cole, Withey, Morris, Morris, and Robinson already in our front court, I'm not so sure we'll be able to give him more PT than UK would... but in the event we hand out two more scholarships, we'll need someone else (Morningstar, i suppose), to give their scholarship up.

Timmay97 12 years, 2 months ago

Two things:

1) I know that Xavier keeps saying he's a OAD, but what is prompting him to say this? I don't see how it could be money. Isn't his brother already a millionaire, courtesy of the Yankees? It's a forgone conclusion that's X is a lottery pick. But money can't be the prime reason why he heads to the NBA. He's going to make far more money than his brother can ever imagine. Therefore, let your big brother take care of you X for a couple of years.

2) I think it's totally unfair for Brady Morningstar to give up his scholarship. Why would he do it? Fine, he's a team player and that's totally commendable, but why? If X or Lance both come (which is HIGHLY unlikely) it basically means that Brady will play about 10 minutes a game. That's not right.....nor is it fair considering all the work he put in last year. Let him keep the scholly and just get either X or Lance. How greedy do we really need to be as Jayhawk fans. Our team is absolutely stacked next year even before we add any other recruits.

Lastly, I really enjoy reading all your posts. Most of you guys really have your sh** together and I think it's great that the Jayhawk faithful are probably the most educated fans around. About 75% of the posts all make great points. Just wish I was as smart as all of you.

FairgroveJayhawk 12 years, 2 months ago

OAD's are predictions or projections by those in the know. People that make a living by analyzing one's game and potential. Nothing is set in stone as there are many variables to consider. For instance, projected OAD's Arthur and Rush that did not pan out to be able to jump to the NBA for what ever reason. remember Rush came back for a second year only to tear his acl playing pick up ball in KC after that second season while awaiting the NBA draft. Arthur, in his freshman season, in my opinion, from all the hype, not so impressive. neither of these players were ready after their first year of college hoops. I would assume the OAD label is trendy and great for a recruits resume but nobody knows for sure where they will go. If they will fit into a program and showcase their OAD talent and potential, if they will have seperation anxiety from their momma or etc.... Hence, KU has never had a OAD. We have signed a couple that were projected to be OAD,

but it never happened.

Hope X signs and stays 4 years..... right

TexasHawk44 12 years, 2 months ago

This was on Zagsblog this morning. Sorry for the length but I don't feel like editing:

Lance Stephenson will take an official visit to St. John’s beginning Friday night, according to sources at St. John’s. An official visit can last 48 hours so Stephenson would leave the Queens campus Sunday.

The 6-foot-5 Stephenson has taken officials to Kansas and Maryland, but not St. John’s. He has been to campus several times unofficially. Additionally, Kansas coach Bill Self will visit with Stephenson Friday afternoon at his Coney Island home, according to another source.

“They’re getting closer to making a decision,” a third source said of the Stephenson family. “They [the coaches] are all making their last minute pitches and I think this is St John’s last chance to beat the other couple [schools, including Maryland]. This is their best opportunity right now. This is their last chance right now.”

The story was first reported by the Daily News.

Stephenson was initially expected to pick Kansas during a March 31 press conference in Miami, but various sources said Kansas asked him to hold off in part to check out whether the website would pass NCAA eligibility requirements and in part because the school is also hoping to land Xavier Henry of Putnam City (Oklahoma City).

Henry got his release from Memphis this week and lists Kansas as his favorite. He chose Memphis over Kansas last November to play with his brother, C.J.

Henry could still wind up at Kansas or at Kentucky with former Memphis coach John Calipari. Carl Henry, Xavier and C.J.’s father, said no decision was imminent because Xavier is in Portland, Ore. this weekend for the Nike Hoop Summit and will be in New York next weekend for the Jordan Brand Classic. If Henry picks Kansas, Stephenson would likely wind up at St. John’s. Kansas freed up two scholarships Thursday when Quintrell Thomas and Tyrone Appleton both announced they would transfer. Still, if Sherron Collins remains at Kansas and/or Henry commits to Kansas, Stephenson might have concerns over playing time.

“I think this weekend is the major decision day,” the source said of the Stephensons. “They [the Stephenson family] are just waiting to see what the numbers are at Kansas.”

DoubleDD 12 years, 2 months ago


I was thinking about this very point last night. If Cole did happen to leave for the league it would create a void in the post, Then an addition like Orton would be nice. However I just don't think Cole is going to the league this year (1) He loves playing at KU (2) if he goes next year he has a shot at #1 overall pick and player of the year. Yet I wouldn't be surprised if he made the jump (his phone is gotta be ringing off the hook). So I will concede the point on Orton. Oh, drgnslyr most teams don't play with a true center.

AaronxScythe 12 years, 2 months ago

Timmay, I have heard that Morningstar's father will pay for school in order to free up another scholarship for either X/Lance/John Wall.

I dont think we need John Wall, he will probably go to the NBA after first year. We got Elijah Johnson who has characteristics as Mario Chalmers and he will most likely be at KU for 3 years so we will have a steady point guard. On he is considered the 5 best high school point guard going to college.

We don't need Orton because we have the twins and Aldrige.

And I think X would make a horrible choice to go to the NBA after one year because, IMO, winning a college national championship is going to be more realistic and better than winning an NBA one which would take years before X would lead his team to one. Plus gaining the experience of playing at college will help him far more in the long run.

I hope the college board will let CJ play because he isn't leaving for any reasons besides the coach he devoted his time to left. Because then we wouldn't need lance.

Lance would be a nice addition to have but he isn't necessary to our victory.

justanotherfan 12 years, 2 months ago

There's a lot to tackle, so let's get to it.

Lance has a tv show/webisode out there. That's been common knowledge for quite a while. It's not like people just discovered this. It's not even like he's the first player to have his own show. I remember a few years back Eddy Curry, Will Bynum and Sean Dockery had a Chicago based show called City Ballers or something like that. Bynum and Dockery went on to play in college with no eligibility issues. Although with the NCAA, where there's smoke, they can make a fire, so this is not over by a long shot.

Cole and Sherron

I think both are gone, albeit for different reasons. Sherron is going to jump because I think his stock will skyrocket once he starts playing in the pre-draft workouts against similar players - guys like Jeremy Pargo, Ty Lawson, Scottie Reynolds. I think that's when GMs will see that Sherron is just as good or better than those guys. Add his on court exploits in last year's title run, and basically carrying this year's team, along with Cole, and I think that makes him a late first rounder, early second rounder in a good situation.

Cole is going to jump because he's a lottery pick, and the smart money says that he has maxed out his potential in college. Cole is probably somewhere between 5-10 right now. To go higher next year, he has to maintain his level of defensive dominance, plus show a whole new array of offensive weapons, particularly with his back to the basket. Basically, Cole has to go from being a solid second option in college to being an absolutely dominant offensive force of nature. That's really the only way he locks down a top 5 draft spot next year. So I think he jumps, gets taken in the Lottery and goes from there.

CJ and X.

I really think CJ and X are a package deal. Think about it this way. CJ is several years older than X, so much so that they never played high school ball together (CJ is class of '05 X is '09). Now they have a once in a lifetime opportunity to play together. Add to that the fact that CJ has missed at least half of the last four years of his little brother's life because he was pursuing his baseball dream, and I think that's the perfect storm. CJ's education is paid for regardless of where he goes. So is X's. X knows that next year he's probably going to get paid, but why not enjoy life (and things like cruising around in his brother's car, paid for by the NYY) and college while getting a whole year to hang with your big bro. The NCAA is notoriously rigid on these types of issues. It's not like X is just another player. He's one of the top 3 players in the country. The NCAA hates it when players move after coaches leave - it hurts their image of the "student athlete", where people presume that these guys choose a school based on academics and education rather than coaches and team makeup. So they may hold CJ hostage, and end up making X's decision for him. I think CJ is stuck in Memphis, and that's where X lands, too.

Champs_R_Us 12 years, 2 months ago

I just don't like this situation at all. It makes the coaches and university look bad, even though it is just all part of the system. Also, I think Self could have handled the situation a little better. I know that he must be drooling with the possibility of having either the brothers or Lance coming, and in order to do that he needed two players to leave (if Sherron and Cole come back)...But it kind of gives the impression that we gave them a little push out of the door. Even with the interview, he should have been begging them to stay to improve for the next few years, because Self has proved that Kansas is the best program in the nation for developing unripened and maybe undiscovered talent.

Quintrell, in my mind, could have developed into a hybrid between Damion James and our own Darnell. A little power inside, and with a few years of practice, a sweet 15-footer. Admit it, Quintrell was raw but he was fighting everytime he got in and usually got something productive done.

Tyrone, with a redshirt next year (which he will most likely have to use anyways), could have been a GREAT contributor to the 2010-11' Hawks. He was already the second best on-ball defender behinds Brady and probably could have surpassed him in a year or two; he had those quick of instincts and toughness. It was his offensive game that limited him. Anybody hear of Russell Robinson? If he became a coach on the floor, and improved his jump-shot, I could easily see him as a backup PG/SG grabbing 20 minutes a game.

All of this is just my opinion, and I know that you guys have a reason for wanting X or Lance: their simply mind-numbing talents. But do we really want to become the Calipari Saga: Part II? If my memory serves me correctly, I believe that a collection of talent and hard work proved to much for a collection of bigger talent...

Kansas 75, Memphis 68 OT-Men's Basketball Championship 2008

AaronxScythe 12 years, 2 months ago


If Kansas won the championship this year, then Sherron and Cole would be going to the NBA, but Sherron realizes how hard NBA life will be for him because of his height. He is the leader of the team and he wants to lead his team to a title. That's why he is returning. And I think Cole really wants a title he contributes to.

Well we know X isn't going to Memphis because he has said he will not go there. His main reason for going there was to be with his brother. So him saying he will not go means his brother will definitely be leaving. It was stated that X originally wanted to play for Kansas but chose Memphis only because of family, so now he has the chance to play for the team he wanted to play for along and be with his brother, at a place where their whole family is a legacy.

Rick Arnoldy 12 years, 2 months ago

I don’t think Coach Self is over-selling or running players off. I seem to recall in one of our head-to-heads with Memphis that a recruit was quoted as saying Calipari promised him playing time and Self told him he’d have to earn it. Was it X himself?

TexasHawk44 12 years, 2 months ago


I agree with you. I believe that Self is not going to mess around until Henry gets back from his tour. We cannot really afford to do that. Once the news broke on Thomas and Appleton, I felt it was for a reason. Like it or not, that is how this stuff works. It is wood cutting time and as you said "time to get down to business".

I also agree that Lance is probably not an OAD and that X is a true lottery pick in 2010. To be honest I would be happy with either of them but I think it is getting time to crap or get off the pot. People seem to keep losing sight of the fact that Lance is a Top 10 prospect. He is not exactly a project.

I think Self truly covets X and that is why the slow down on Lance. Plus there probably were some legit concerns on the web site, but as others on here have pointed out, that likely is more smoke screen than anything else.

I think Orton is only on the table if Cole leaves. I also think Withey is a 4, not a natural 5, despite his height.

I really hope that Cole and Collins both return. I personally believe that Collins comes back. With Cole I think it is a coin toss.

Any way this shakes out we are going to have a very good team -- even if we don't get X or Lance and even if Cole and Collins leave early, we will still be good. But if we get X or Lance and if Cole and Collins return we will be a power to really be feared by January.

Let's hope that when we head into work on Monday that something has been decided. One can wish....

Steve Gantz 12 years, 2 months ago

2 guys leave who played little, possibly another guy comes in who will have the same amount of time at KU.

Tony Bandle 12 years, 2 months ago

Timmay97 - if you are using we KU posters as an intelligence goal, you've set the bar WWWAAAAYYY too low for yourself...but thanks.

chickenkawk...couldn't you find a better handle than this? I am surrounded by K-State grads and this is what I hear 24/7/12/365!!

USAF_J_HAWK....thanks for what you and your crews do for us. Question..did the Jayhawk helicopter gets it's name from our beloved bird???

rockchalkchick...I assume your ID answers the question if ladies participate in the posting frenzy!!

DoubleDD...if you are a female, you now have the best ID on this site!! If not, well the alliteration is still cool.

If anyone noticed, this is a post having nothing to do with the current situation...consider it a topical appertif!!!

Lin Rahardja 12 years, 2 months ago

Thanks to Tyrone & Quintrell for all the hard work and great attitude this season, and best of luck with the rest of your career. They can get major minutes in other programs. It is a win-win situation for both Kansas and the players.

AaronxScythe 12 years, 2 months ago

This is what I hope happens:

  1. Sherron and Cole stay
  2. We get X (X will leave after freshman year leaving his spot open for his brother)
  3. Brady gives scholarship to Lance he becomes a three year KU basketball star

We win 1-3 championships in the next 4 years.

Don't forget we do have number 7 ranked Thomas Robinson PF and number 5 ranked Elijah Johnson PG.

So we don't need Orton or Wall, they will most likely leave after a year.

Jack Wilson 12 years, 2 months ago

JW1122: If KU pedrigree meant so much, why did Henry choose to go to Memphis over Kansas in the first place? He wants to play with his brother. I appreciate your optimism on Henry, but by trying to get the prettiest girl at the dance (Henry), we risk losing the next best thing (who may be better anyway). See the article on Stephenson below.

Do you not think it is a possibility we lose both?

kufankam 12 years, 2 months ago


i agree with you that lance has crazy potential. i would be thrilled if we landed lance or xavier. that said, i do think that sometimes people mistake a player's control of his emotion as "no drive to win". just because a player does not show emotion does not mean that player isn't competitive. i.e. guys like boschee, pierce, hinrich, collison were some of the most competitive players we've had. i think X is of that mold. he seems to remain steady... never too high or low. i kinda like that kinda player. chalmers was kinda like that, though he did get a bit amped up at times. i just like the attitude players like that exude, that says, "i am always in control". then there is the other side of the coin... you need a player to wear his emotion on his sleeve, to be that spark. i think a great example of that would be sherron. the only fear i have for players like this is that they can be great-like sherron.... or they can be erratic like j.r. giddens.

we have had great teams that have weathered mid season lulls and made remarkable comebacks. i would contend, that those comebacks were anchored by level headed/less emotional players like robinson, rush, chalmers. i think X can be that type of stable force. regardless of emotion, hitting big shots is hitting big shots, making big stops is making big stops.

i agree with you that an emotional spark is vital in that process- guys like sherron (off the bench) and darnell jackson were huge emotional lifters. all that to say, i think this team could benefit from either lance or X, i just trust the level head of X vs the emotional drive of lance... just my opinion and if lance came to KU, i would be thrilled and would love/hate him (like we do most freshman : ))

drgnslyr, i hope that made sense. i don't disagree with you, just offering up the positive side/need for the non emotional players...

100 12 years, 2 months ago


Nice comments.

We will have at least 2 to give. The perfect scenario would be X & Wall come. With CJ too.

Orton, from all quotes I've seen in Lexington papers, is staying at UK. He was our 2nd choice, so that seems understandable.

If X, CJ & Wall both come, watch out. We have 2 to give (or will don't worry so much about "how", we have 2, although you're right that it's "one" right now)

I think X is ticked at Cal deep down for splitting up he and his bro (even though he understands).

UK isn't even in the top 10 preseason.

The best thing for him & his future career would be to win a national championship.

The only place he can do that (next year) is at the University of Kansas.

Joe Baker 12 years, 2 months ago

I would be ecstatic if we grabbed X, Lance and Wall. Wall had his chance way early in the season. He could sign anytime w/ KU. He's got his eye elsewhere, like UK, Duke or even UNC! Whitlock also said the Self/Gillespie connection had Orton in the KU mix by getting out of his LOi !! I think another fan said it best about these recruits. Oread is like a big aiport just waiting for the bigs to land! This may be why we haven't heard anything just yet. Self and Co. maybe working out some details. I know Morningstar gives his scholly, Reed may get an academic, Releford may redshirt, and lastly Thomas may transfer to top it all out! CJ is covered under his Yankee clause b/c they will pay his tuition. I think the Henry's are waiting on the appeal for CJ to play and since no money was involved, my understanding is he gets to play at KU. CJ comes...X follows to complete the family tradition!!

Who knows? Anything's possible! Either way KU is title bound.

April 9, 2009 at 4:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

AaronxScythe 12 years, 2 months ago


we will get x and cj, possibly lance.

but we have Cole, the twins, and Thomas Robinson for big men

We have Elijah Johnson for a future point guard, he will stay for longer than a year unlike Wall.

TexasHawk44 12 years, 2 months ago

Couple of opinions:

1) Whitlock is an egomaniac and blowhard who spews almost anything just to hear/see himself talk. I take anything and everything he writes or says with a grain of salt -- or in Jason's case, a truckload of salt...

2) Just because Henry does not scream and showboat after every play does not mean he is not passionate. (see Paul Pierce)

3) Orton is not coming to KU unless Cole leaves. KU lost interest in Orton originally when they signed Robinson, or vice versa.

4) Wall will never be a Jayhawk.

5) Cole and Sherron both come back for next season.

6) KU will sign either X and CJ will walk on and sit out a year, or...

7) KU will sign Lance and he will play two years for KU.

8) KU will not sign any other new scholarship players for the coming season except X or Lance.

9) Rock Chalk in 2009-10!

Eric Williams 12 years, 2 months ago

Let's wait until April 26. Then we'll know for sure if Cole or Sherron is going to test the waters.

Personally, Cole SHOULD test the waters to find areas to improve and market himself, then return to KU.

Sherron as well, because you can declare once and return, but your second declaration is an automatic jump to the NBA. Sherron graduates next year, so WHY NOT test the waters?

At this point, just give me one recruit (X, Lance or Wall) and I'm good.

TexasHawk44 12 years, 2 months ago

First, Wall is not coming to KU...

While Wall is an incredible player, Johnson is not chopped liver:

From ESPN: January, 2009: Johnson was the most physically gifted prospect by far at the event, but before he arrives at Kansas next season, he has some areas that need to be addressed. Johnson, who may remind some of current NBA standout Baron Davis, has a world of potential due to his athleticism and skill. He plays the game at an effortless pace - that is part of the problem - but he can impact it on so many different levels. His strength, skill, and bounce are easily noticed, but he only utilizes those advantages in spurts. He can get to the basket at will and can hang in the air for an eternity. His jump shot is more than solid with range out beyond the 3-point line, but he doesn't get his legs into it as much as he should. Overall, he understands the game and he should be in the NBA some day, but Bill Self might have his work cut out for him getting Johnson to reach his enormous potential

He is the number 28 ranked player according to ESPN. Not exactly an also ran.... And best of all: he is already committed :)

Eric Williams 12 years, 2 months ago

TexasHawk, have you been reading my posts? I totally agree.

Wall and Orton are true "dark horse" recruits for KU.

I'd prefer X (and CJ) before Lance, simply because of the humility factor. Lance is a showboat in the NY public leagues and curses his coach, but how good will he be when he's in D-I playing against fellow McD's AA? He should hold his own, but maybe he will learn soon that his crap stinks just like other top players.

Look at our recent history of recruits.

Being a top-40 recruit doesn't guarantee you'll make it to the NBA.

Giles, Downs, even Aaron Miles and Keith Langford can't get signed. Simien's out of the league now too. Padgett won't be an NBA star anytime soon.

All those guys were highly touted, some were NCAA All Americans, but there are no guarantees. Lance doesn't have his priorities straight. He's not grounded.

Would I take him on our team? Yes. Do I think he will understand what it means to be a Jayhawk? No.

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

I thought this was funny and had to share. Yesterday evening I was talking to my wife and explaining to her that two players had transfered from KU to go elsewhere. She asked me which two were leaving and I told her. She doesn't follow KU basketball that closely (She is a Purdue Grad), but she said she really didn't have a clue who they were. That is no knock on either Q or Tyrone, but she really doesn't follow basketball that closely. Anyway, here is the kicker.............she sat there puzzled for a second and then proceded to ask me this question, "If Bill Self was National Coach of the year, why on earth would those two kids want to leave?" I couldn't help but laugh, but she does bring up an excellent point.

I think it goes back to my earlier posts that everything isn't as it seems on the surface. I think Tyrone and Q were giving all the opportunity in the world by Bill Self to have an opportunity and a chance of a lifetime for instant playing time, but it didn't work out like they planed. I do not think either one of them were "Forced Out", but I do think they were given a very detailed explanation of the current situation and the future status of KU Basketball. I sure hope Bill Self will look after both Q and Tyrone, and I hope sincerely hope he's not like the other 85 percent of college coaches out there who will leave players high and dry. I hate this side of athletics and it doesn't get talked about very often, but I do have complete faith in Bill Self and am glad that he is a great ambassador for KU Basketball.

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

One last thing.......I also think Cole and Sherron should test the waters, but I have a gut feeling they will also be returning for their junior and senior seasons. For all of those individuals who criticized Collins for trying to be a one man show, think about how much Collins game will change next year with the increased talent plus the addition of either X or Lance or both. I also agree with most that Ty Lawson is not better than Sherron Collins, but it's all about timing and circumstances with these NBA GM's. Ty Lawson had star talent at every position this past season and it made his game shine. KU was one scoring 2 man/3man away from having the same kind of impact. Next year will not be so hard on Collins should he return. It will be good again to see an effortless Collins on the court. I enjoyed Hydromatic Collins this year, but he won't need to be that type of player next year with X or Lance. They will take some of the pressure off of Collins which will be awesome.

kufankam 12 years, 2 months ago


i agree with both your posts... self has always seemed to play the best player with no strings attached. he has always seemed to open up playing time to whoever earns it and i doubt he would push these guys out the door.

in regards to sherron, i had a similar convo with a friend the other day. he was asking how excited these possible recruits should be to play with sherron and co. i couldn't help but think how excited sherron would be to have X or lance play on the wing. it would completely open up his already deadly driving and scoring ability...

kupark 12 years, 2 months ago

I'm convinced...players transferring is part of Bill Self's recruiting methodology. I mean, we've had awfully high numbers of players transferring in six years Bill has been with KU. I had made this point a few weeks ago as well. Clearly, these two had no chance of playing for KU in the near future (no chance for Appleton since he was a junior this year).

Bill Self needs to tweak how he plans his recuriting to not let this become a norm at KU. In few years KU might get a bad reputation for it and then those hardworking, tough guys who have no chance of playing right away or of leaving early won't sign up to play for Kansas. And, Bill's system needs a player or two like that to win a championship.

AaronxScythe 12 years, 2 months ago

The good thing about recruiting X and C.J. is that if X stays that's good for us but if he leaves we will still have C.J. verses only getting Lance and having him for two years.

I'm almost positive that Sherron and Cole are coming back though. I don't think Sherron will have an amazing career in the NBA so I know he wants a national championship that he led.

And in regards to Elijah, give him two years, he will be amazing his junior year. Self realizes the potential in him and will work with him to maximize his skill level. Same with Robinson.

MrPilot 12 years, 2 months ago

"Cole is going to jump because he's a lottery pick, and the smart money says that he has maxed out his potential in college."

Maxed out his potential?! Are you on drugs? If that's where you put your "smart money", remind me never to invest anything with you.

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

I have to admit that Cole completely surprised me at the beginning of this past season. I honestly did not think that he would be this good. You can all go ahead and slap me, but for some reason I did have flashbacks to Chenowith before Cole even played one minute this past season. I was hoping that wouldn't be the case, but Cole completely exceded all my expectations. I also feel he isn't even close to reaching his potential. If Cole should return next year he is gone after his junior year. The great thing about next year should Cole return is that he's going to get a ton better than he already is. Teams are going to focus on Cole and he's going to sharpen and fine tune those situations where he gets doubled teamed. The two areas I think Cole needs to work on are these.

1) His decision making out of the Double Team-He did have way too many turnovers trying to make the cross court pass. I"m not worried about that apsect because I know it will probably work it's way out on it's own

2) This is an area where he needs to work on over the summer. I think he's got the drop step to his right down pretty well, but he needs to work on going to his left with his left hand when he is down on the weak side block.

3) This isn't a weakness, but I can't wait to see Cole next year in a KU uniform. He is going to be stronger and just plain chisled.

AaronxScythe 12 years, 2 months ago


I agree with you completely, I think Cole surprised everyone with how important he would be to this team.

I was reading a story on Sherron and said he had come back this season out of shape and unprepared for this year's season. What I hope is Sherron really takes the off season seriously and gets to the top of his game for next year, we are gonna need a clutch leader like we all know he can be.

Cole and Sherron both want the title next year, I'm pretty positive Cole will be here next year. It would be dumb of him to go to the NBA because of how good KU looks next year.

It is sort of like what Cal did in leaving Memphis, they would have had the most promising team in college basketball with X, Orton, wall ect. He sabotaged his own potential title.

Does anyone know the last day the new recruits can decide where they are going to play?

jaybate 12 years, 2 months ago

What I really love about all this right now is that Bill Self has everyone by the short hairs and his twittling them.

Self had to eat humble pie all season long: first, with Wall trimming KU from his list; then with X kissing Self off for Calipari and Memphis, then Snaer exercised his Oakie Baller Mafia option to pass on Self and sign with Leonard in the Sunshine State; somewhere in there Cousins kissed Self off for Calipari; then Lance drags his feet on signing with KU. Man, Bill Self probably ate more humble pie than any coach has ever eaten, while recruiting on the heels of a national championship. Whew!

But then Cal jumps and it looks like Cal is going to bring the whole farm with him from Memphis to Lexington--insult to injury to Coach Self. Cal gets bigger bucks than Bill. Cal gets better players than Bill. Cal gets more media hype than Bill.

But does Coach Self roll over and start crying "Why me lord?"


He keeps going to work, keeps jumping on the plane and hustling.


Partly it is a character thing.

Okie kid.

Dad was a coach.

Iba tradition.

Saw how shifty coaches eventually shot themselves in the foot, even after they won rings, by working for LB.

Learned just how hard and clever you had to be under Eddie.

Turned sows ears into silk purses at ORU and Tulsa.

Coach against truly corrupt programs in the Big Ten. Saw the well spring of butcher ball up close and personal from one of the traditional dens of iniquity--Illinois.

Been to the projects in Chicago.

Oh, and one more thing: slit-eyed Bill, he of the heavy brow, and granite jaw, and million dollar cheshire grin, slit-eyed Bill knew he held a couple key cards in his hand that most everyone knew he held, but did not understand just how to play them.

jaybate 12 years, 2 months ago

How shall I put this politely?

Bill Self is moving into position for the kill.

Bill Self is sweating them all; that's what my Dad used to call it in doing a deal.

Bill Self is betting no one can stink, or stand up, until Bill Self decides whether Cole Aldrich and Sherron Collins should go pro.

Is this rich, or what?

Bill Self has to talk to some people. He has to collect some information. He is not sure how long it will take.

It is taking quite awhile. ;-)

Bill Self gets to put all his ducks in order. Bill Self gets to pair back his roster as he chooses and when.

Bill Self gets to keep Calipari hanging out in the wind.

Coach Cal gets a taste of staring down the UK administration and Alums that he probably practically guarrantied X, Cousins and god knows what else in the way of recruits.

How does it feel Coach Cal? How do you like not being able to act on your promises to those incredibly patient UK folks? How does it feel for all those folks to see that you were perhaps promising more than you could immediately deliver?

Bill Self has let the game come to him, as some people like to say about playing basketball on the wood.

Bill Self is sweating the Henry family, too. And the Stephensons. They tried to kill him with suspense, and now suddenly the suspense is killing them.

Carl Henry is the only smart guy in this whole situation; the only one who seems to get it. He knows he and his boys stuck it to Bill pretty good and he knows that his boys can't for certain go as a package deal anywhere now.

Carl is at least smart enough to play the game and suck up to Bill Self big time. Carl knows that his two sons are in the midst of finding out just how harsh and cruel the world can be. Carl has been through the wars. He knows that when you lie down with dogs you can get fleas, and that his sons both now just may have acquired a bad case of fleas from the charismatic Coach Cal. His kids don't know it. They think this is just another delay before they are worshipped some more.

jaybate 12 years, 2 months ago

But Carl probably knows that Coach Cal reputedly has skeletons in the closet and that it is possible that he pulled a Larry Brown and left town just before the kettle blew up. Carl apparently knows what he doesn't know. Carl apparently knows his sons could easily get caught up in an NCAA investigation and that UK has been desparate for a lot of years now and that desperate programs do desperate things sometimes that they later regret. Carl apparently knows what he doesn't know about UK, as sure as he apparently knows what he doesn't know about Memphis and Coach Cal. Carl apparently knows his two boys are in harms way. And he is sucking hard on Coach Bill Self just in case all heck breaks loose, maybe even if it doesn't.

And Bill Self is quietly going about his business gathering information...

And clearing the decks and meeting with people...

All kinds of meetings...with all kinds of people...

And no one knows who all Coach Self is meeting with...

Which players he really wants...and how many...

They don't know if he is meeting with NCAA investigators about Coach Cal's rather miraculous recruiting successes...

They don't know if he isn't...

Right now, everyone in this drama wants to know what Bill Self knows and Bill Self isn't tipping his hand to anyone.

About now, Ol' Eddie has gotta be sittin' back in his rocker and laughing his you-know-what's off!!!

He just might be tellin' Bill, when Bill calls occassionally just to catch up with ol'coach, "Sweat'em, Billy, just keep sweatin'em. You don't need any of 'em. Just keep tellin' yerself that. You've got a Sweet 16 team full of freshman and sophmores that will be Elite 8 material even if you just stay the course next year. You're at Kansas kid. You're drivin' this bus right now. And you can get off any time you want to. But them? Oh, what a tangled web they weaved, when first they practiced to deceive! Just keep sweatin'em Billy. Gillispie's been way deep in UK's drawers and they shafted him big time. They all know now that what Billy knows about UK's dirty laundry, the NCAA and you could very easily know now, too. They know that Coach Cal ain't no choir boy neither. They know that! You just be good. You just keep playin' by the rules. You just keep sweatin'em. Get yer ducks lined up. Pick out exactly who you want. And just let the pressure slowly build until you get just what you want, or the whole pot explodes and then, well, there ain't no more Memphis, and there ain't no more UK, and there ain't no more Coach Cal. Ya folla me, Billy?"

Of course this is just opining and speculation and imagining. There ain't a grain of fact to be knowed about this situation. Maybe everyone involved has been pure as new snow. Maybe. Or maybe the dogs with the fleas have been trouncin' through this snow and doin' what dog do for quite some time.

The above was all meant in fun, not to be took seriously.

Of course.

nelly20 12 years, 2 months ago

Shaw- please don't tell me that you actually think s. collins is a better player than Ty Lawson. If you really think this-- you don't know as much about basketball as I thought. It is just not true. Collins could possibly win in a game of one on one-- but that's about it. Honestly, I'm about the biggest jhawk fan around-- but give me a break. Did you watch the tourney--? Lawson was-- to me-- the best player not named Blake in the whole tourney... I would guess that TL will be drafter right around the middle of the first round this year-- and will play for many years in the NBA (most likely as a back up PG)-- and my guess is if SC came out this year (they are the same year)-- he would be lucky to be drafted...i mean these are the people that pay guys to play -- i pretty sure they would take the better player-- to me that speaks for itself....

jaybate 12 years, 2 months ago


Oh my gawd, of course Collins is better than Lawson!

Switch Lawson and Collins this year. UNC not only wins with Collins, but has fewer losses. Collins won the ring last year, too. Collins probably might have gone undefeated with this year's UNC team.

Put Lawson with our green team? We'd have had ten losses for sure.

Lawson could never carry a D1 team on his back to the Sweet Sixteen, not in a million years.

Whoever drafts Lawson gets a fast guard.

Whoever drafts Collins gets a great player.

Or to paraphrase Bill Self: he's never seen a guard who could impact a game the way Sherron does.

nelly20 12 years, 2 months ago

im a big fan of SC, and i think that is ridiculous. I would like to see that -- Bill Self has -- never-- seen a guard who could impact a game like Sherron Collins. Just think about that for a minute. Ever. Never. Im not trying to be a jerk. DId you ever watch Chris Paul play in college? How about JJ Reddick. What about DJ Augustine, Mateen Cleeves, -- i mean i think that may be taken out of context. I understand that you have an opinionpp but lets be clear-- Ty Lawson won the Chmp. for UNC...without him they looked terrible in the ACC say lawson is fast and collins is great is just a bit dillusional

nobodylikesmizzou 12 years, 2 months ago

The quote was "Nobody that I've coached impacts a college game more than Sherron while I was actually coaching him," but that said, I agree with jaybate that this is not a case where you can look at numbers or whatever it is that you are using to compare the two without the what if sscenario that we will see next year if everything pans out the way we would like it to...If you surround Sherron Collins with the level of talent that Lawson had at his disposal, you will see Collins' ability to create when he doesn't have teams waiting to collapse on him, and you will see his ability to create for other people...Some say we would not have beat Oklahoma which is, of course, a purely hypothetical scenario that nobody will know the answer to, and as is the case of taking on Oklahoma without Collins, we can safely assume that we would not have won...I would disagree with jaybate that Lawson's speed is his only asset, but I think he understands this and is merely trying to make a point. If he doesn't, we will have to agree to disagree. But, Collins could certainly beat Lawson in more than a game of one on one. Of this I am quite confident.

kufankam 12 years, 2 months ago

holly crap! i can't believe how much i agree with jaybate on this : )

nelly, all due respect. sherron has been trumping lawson since back when they were playing the allstar circuit in high school. i have long since grown tired of the lawson love. he goes to carolina-team in desperate need of PG and he plays immediately. sherron comes to KU, where there is already established chemistry. by the end of sherron's freshman year, he has already proven worthy of a starting spot. only when self approaches collins about it, sherron decline's as to not disturb the chemistry. for a freshman who was watching his biggest rival get all the minutes at UNC, that said a lot about sherron's character.

let's consider these two:

shooter: sherron by a landslide passer: push defender: lawson, but he has been worked as well at times (like sherron) rebounder: i actually don't know that i have ever seen either grab a board : ) leader: uh, sherron took 8 newby's to a possession of the elite 8. toughness: sherron, if you have questions, refer to last years final four in which lawson successfully dissappeared.

all that to say, jaybate hit the nail on the head. sherron was playing with such a burden this year to lead (carry) these youngsters and he did it in a great way. lawson on the other hand, had the court at his disposal. with defenders having to focus on green and ellington on the perimeter, lawson could slash defenses all night long and then we have to listen to Dicky V sing all about it. if it wasn't defenders having to key on the outside players, it was that other guy in the middle, hansbrough... or as digger phelps calls him, hansbourough.

i think the most telling way to show that lawson could not do what sherron has done at ku is simple. he never would have been here. sherron saw the challenge, accepted it, and conquered it. lawson would have bolted to the nba with the calvary last year, no question about it.

and by the way, (not that jaybate needs anyone sticking up for him) but the part about collins impacting a game like no one else... yeah, that was not jaybate's assertion. he was simply passing along selfs thoughts. if you don't recall, self said that.

Tony Bandle 12 years, 2 months ago

Collins only true Achilles Heel was his turnovers and with a better cast next season [ actually and potentially an extremely improved cast next season], he will be able to let the game come to him and, probably, with much less fanfare, have an even greater impact on the games, as he directs the team.

Think of this year as a string quartet where Sherron is the lead violinist Think of next year as a concert orchestra where Sherron is the conductor.

Less will be More!!!

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

Nelly: I was going to have a response with this whole Collins/Lawson debate, but Jaybate and Kufankam summed it up very nicely. Like I said in my above post it's all about "Timing" and "Circumstances" with both Lawson and Collins. I do agree with you Nelly that Lawson will be in the NBA as a backup point guard, but I don't get all they hype. I live in ACC Country, and as much as I hate it from a basketball perspective, so I get to watch a ton of basketball. Actually, I saw every one of UNC games this past season. It doesn't really matter what experienced point guard you would have plugged in with that UNC team and they probably would have gotten the job done.

1) Levance Fields 2) Johnny Flynn 3) Sherron Collins 4) Darren Collison

I'm not saying there is a big difference between Collins and Lawson, but I don't think there is that wide as a margin in favor of Lawson over Collins as the National Pundits think. In college, as sub 6 footer point guard you can get to the rack and get away with it. In the NBA, your career could be over if you don't find an alternative to your game. Collins doesn't get to the rack as much as Lawson, but in the NBA Collins wouldn't need to get to the rack that much. Neither would Lawson nor would they both ever get to the rack with somebody like Bosh and D Howard in the middle. I don't agree to disagree, but I think as some of the other posters have said that Collins has the better overall game than Lawson. All the hype is with Lawson (Raymond Felton Like) right now and deservedly so just like it was with the Jayhawks last year even though a couple of the players "Stock" dropped.

The only thing that would concern me is the injury problem with Collins, but if you go back and look at the number of games they missed durring their college career, Lawson has missed more games than Collins. Bet nobody would have "Thunk" that!

Chris Shaw 12 years, 2 months ago

kufankam: Shooting is a crazy stat. Before this past season, Lawson was not that great of a shooter so I have to disagree with you and agree with you about Lawson shooting. I do give credit to Lawson because anybody who shoots 53 percent from the field and 47 percent on the season from 3 pt range is most deserving. So here I go, I am standing up and giving Ty Lawson a standing ovation because from a shooting persepective that is a great accomplishment. Anybody would love to shoot like that?

There is a flip side though, however. If you're Ty Lawson you better shoot like that considering the team and components you have surrounding you. When Psyco Tee was doubled teamed and would kick out of the double team (Aldrich should watch tape on how this done) to the perimeter, there would be 2 swing passes to a wide open Lawson for uncontested 3. You better damn well hit those jumpers in those situations and that is exactly what Ty Lawson did and he did in the most important games leading up the National Championship. Kudos to Lawson, but I think it's more his team and system then it is Lawson.

I hate to bring it up, but Jacque Vaughn is the sole reason why KU never got to a Final 4 let alone win a National Championship when they most certainly should have. In that 1997 game against Zona, Jacque Vaugh shot 3-10 and 0-4 from 3 pt range with 5 turnovers. I think the only difference between the two in hindsight is that Lawson hit his shots and Jacque Vaughn didn't.

Another interesting statsitic when I looked back at that 97 loss to Zona and that 98 loss to Rhode Island is that Billy Thomas stunk it up bad. He shot 5/15 and 3/10 fro 3 pt range against Zona and 2/15 and they didn't give me his 3 pt percentage, but he either made 0, 1, or 2, LOL! My point with these two statistics is that Lawson and his teammates were just on fire and hit their open shots when it counted. I really don't think there is much difference between that 97 and 98 KU teams and the 08/09 UNC teams. One hit their shots and the other didn't. Jacque Vaughn had all the "Hype" in the world back then, but has turned out a nice role in the NBA as a backup point guard. I guess the same could be said in my opinon about Ty Lawson, even though he hit his shots, in the NBA in the future.

jaybate 12 years, 2 months ago


Holy waste matter, I can't believe how much you agree with me either! It gives me pause. Is there a flaw in my logic on this one? ;-)

Steve Brown 12 years, 2 months ago

A big time school about to go under NCAA investigation. NCAA using some good kids as bait to see who is indited.

Some coach gets fingers dirty.

Some programs stay clean and rise like a phoenix.

Some players decide not to go to schools that are about to be on post season banishment.

like Jaybate said, it is all speculation.....just fiction ..

nelly20 12 years, 2 months ago

OK-- I am sure I have figured out what is going to happen in the next few days-- KU will not sign X and Lance-- its not going to happen. Orton will not come-- unless Aldrich leaves, which I think is unlikely..Cole is projected 12-18 depending on where u look--- he will be top 5 next year, and have a real chance to win another title...Collins will not leave. He needs to be assured that he is at least going to get drafted, and at this point--- that is not clear...many of the mock drafts list him at the end of the second round-- or not at all....he will stay-- by next year, he will have a much better shot to make some money. He can make more over seas-- or maybe even have a situation similar to Chalmers where he gets drafted in the early second-- has a good summer league-- and gets a good are the scenarios-- its easy....

1.) We sign X and his brother.-- if this happens-- the class is done. -- This is the most likely scenario. The only other possibility is that X and CJ both stay at Memphis....if they leave-- they will go to KU. If CJ has to sit out another year to be eligible- my guess is they may stay at Memphis.

2.) They stay at Memphis-- Lance signs the next day....The class is done.

-- one of these 2 things will happen -- my guess is by end of next week.

3.) Aldrich leaves...we make a push to sign Orton...this is unlikely-- if Cole stays-- Orton will never come to KU...way, way too crowded with talent...if he is unhappy about cousins signing at UK--- why would he ever come to KU? -- the situation is much worse for guess is that he stays at UK-- unless Aldrich leaves-- then who knows...

4.) John Wall-- really does not matter. We don't need him. The only way he comes is if Collins leaves--and even if he does....he wont come. I think he goes to UK. Seems to be that I would rather have johnson stay 3 years-- we dont need wall to make a run next year.

Brett Glover 12 years, 2 months ago

It just annoys me when people come on here and state "this is what's going to happen" because really, NO ONE HAS THE SLIGHTEST FREAKING IDEA WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN!!

Michael Auchard 12 years, 2 months ago

While it doesn't mean anything at this point, ESPN's first pre-season Top 25 poll has us at #1 in the nation.

Brett Glover 12 years, 2 months ago

I wish just one year unc would be out of the picture, grr.

100 12 years, 2 months ago

Above post is by Mizzou fan. Nice to see so many UK fans on the site lately too -- last time we had to worry about UK fans on the Internet was....


Wouldn't it be better to just be honest about your fanhood and quit posing?

If you're a Jayhawk:

  1. X is awesome -- we want him & CJ

  2. Lance is a winner -- quit overanalyzing.

  3. John Wall wants to be a Jayhawk -- only place he would win a National Championship is at Kansas, since he's one and done. Same with X.

If a fan has anything else coming out of their mouth, they're posing...

Go to your own websites & quit pretending to be us...

Let's bring these guys home...

Rock Chalk Jayhawk

Eric Williams 12 years, 2 months ago


For one second, quit dreaming and explain how KU will get all 3 recruits.

I'll get you started. We have ONE scholarship available. So let's give that to X (and CJ is free).

Ok we're full. BREAKING NEWS! Brady gives up his scholarship. Lance signs. That's 2.

Wall insists he wants to join KU too...wait there are NO more scholarships because the people on scholarship don't have the money to pay their way.

Here's how I see it.

X, CJ, Lance, John Wall, Orton, Snaer ALL had their chance to sign with KU. They have either chosen to hold out or go elsewhere.

Just because they "want" to be a Jayhawk is moot. Plenty of stars "want" to go to KU, they also "want" to attend Duke, UNC, UCLA, UK, UConn, etc.

I say we take the first recruit that signs and tell the rest, "sorry, you had your chance"

Brett Glover 12 years, 2 months ago

be realistic, 613. I'm sure Self has more ways of getting more scholarships with the Alumni Base we have here i'm sure he can get another scholarship or two if the need arises, am I right?

jayhawkboy35 12 years, 2 months ago

my question is, with scholarships freeing up by them, how is it going to effect the decision of X. Henry and Stephenson? And how will this effect the decision of Sherron and Cole?

jaybate 12 years, 2 months ago


Reed's dad is already on record as saying he'll pay Tyrel's way next year. Boom! Three scholies. :-)

It pays not to be sarcastic until you're sure you're right.

I'm not even being sarcastic and I'm pretty sure I'm right on this.

Brett Glover 12 years, 2 months ago

Lets just call up pierce up and have him pay for sherron, or someone else. :)

Priest Fontaine 12 years, 2 months ago

the way I see it, we're good as we stand right now. Of course I would love to see Wall, Lance, X, CJ or Orton sign with KU. but any of them would be icing on the cake. We could have really used Lance or X this past year to get us past Mich St. We really needed another go to scorer. I am really hoping for the 2 for 1 deal of X and CJ but like I said, we're good regardless! (as long as Collins and Cole stay another year and Releford and Tayshaun continue to develop as offensive threats)...

kerbyd 12 years, 2 months ago

Was reading Jerry Meyer's comments with Rivals about Orton. He thought Orton would not go to UK since they already had Cousins and the dribble drive offense of Calipari would not support two bigs that play basically the same position. Interesting.

Eric Bernauer 12 years, 2 months ago

AaronxScythe (anonymous) says... Timmay, I have heard that Morningstar's father will pay for school in order to free up another scholarship for either X/Lance/John Wall.

Where did you hear Morningstar's father will pay? From Self? From Morningstar? I have NEVER seen it said by any of the above. Just by people like you.

jaybate 12 years, 2 months ago


Excellent point. Let's just do away with scholies and have rich alum's pay all their ways. Let's have a team with 20 blue chips. That ought to shave the odds our way. And it saves the tax payers a ton. :-)

Brett Glover 12 years, 2 months ago

I know, Jaybate! What's not to lose!? I mean, What's a (estimated) combined 25,000 dollars to two or three alumni?! I'm sure Drew, Kirk, Nick, or heck Even Ostertag would all be able to shell out a little bit o' cash our way. We'd be crazy to not pass up this op! ;)

Eric Williams 12 years, 2 months ago


Brady and his family let it be known a while ago that "if" KU needed an extra scholarship, they would look at paying for Brady's college tuition, etc.

It wasn't exactly "headline" news because it was so long ago, and most likely we will only land one recruit and not have to ask Brady to relinquish his.

Eric Bernauer 12 years, 2 months ago


Never has Brady or Roger been quoted in print or over the air saying they would pay Brady's way. That was a rumor based on people's perception that Brady wasn't talented enough to earn a scholarship on his own. As you are probably aware, even our own boards were bemoaning the lack of talent of Brady well into this past season, stating such things as that KU would be in deep trouble if Brady would be starting come January. It may be "known for a while", but only if you believe everything you see in print or hear over the radio from people who are not in the know.

Could you be right? Sure, but this is true about the other KU players too. Just because something is repeated again and again doesn't make it true. Especially when it is from the net or those radio talk shows.

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