Tuesday, December 5, 2006

No offense, no problem

KU struggles scoring, but stifles USC

By Gary Bedore

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Brandon Rush's shooting touch, at least for the time being, has completely abandoned him.

"They fell short, were going long, off the backboard : every way you can miss, I did," Rush said, critiquing himself after missing 11 of 14 shots, but still finding a way to score 13 points in the Jayhawks' 72-62 victory over Southern California on Monday night in Allen Fieldhouse.

The sophomore wing, who entered in a 13-of-41 shooting slump over the last four games, wasn't the only Jayhawk not to shoot straight against the Trojans (5-2).

Sherron Collins, who had 11 points, missed eight of 13 shots, and Julian Wright, who had 10 points, missed seven of 11, while Russell Robinson missed four of five en route to five points.

However, KU's 38.1 percent shooting didn't cost the Jayhawks the game, mainly because of a Rush- and Mario Chalmers-led effort on the defensive end.

Rush asked KU coach Bill Self if he could guard USC's leading scorer, Nick Young "as soon as DePaul's (Sammy) Mejia went off for 23 on me (in Saturday's loss in Chicago). I didn't want it to happen again," he said.

Rush helped KU hold the Trojans to 43.5 percent shooting. KU forced 25 turnovers and had 15 steals. Chalmers plucked six steals himself.

"I told the coaches I wanted to take him out of the game," Rush said of Young, who had eight points off 3-of-13 shooting. "I feel good because I played defense on their best player.

Audio clips

2006-07 Dec. 4 KU-USC Hoops

"Our defense picked up big-time. We did great except for not containing one guy who got 23."

That would be Lodrick Stewart, who scored 23 off 9-of-15 shooting.

"He's a deadly shooter," Rush said of the brother of KU's Rodrick Stewart. "He reminds me of my brother (JaRon, former UCLA player), left-handed and everything."

KU's defense was so intense, it drew rave reviews from coach Bill Self, who had lit into his team at what Rush called a "long meeting" Saturday after KU returned from the DePaul game.

"He was happy. He came in the locker room with a big smile," Rush said of his coach. "He said we played good defense, just didn't make shots."

Self indeed was a happy man Monday.

"If we had guarded like that against DePaul or Oral Roberts, we would be 9-0 and ranked No. 1 in the country," Self said. "Our defense was excellent. We rebounded well (39-30 advantage, with Darnell Jackson getting nine). We ran good offense. We just didn't make shots. We made enough."

Rush only made three, but the preseason All-American isn't panicking.

"I don't think I'm in a sophomore slump," he said. "I've just missed some shots. My teammates tell me to stay aggressive and they'll start going in. I feel better. I hit a couple today."

Photo Gallery

KU vs USC

Self is glad to hear confident statements coming from Rush, who in the coach's eyes has been pressing.

"You can look at his face and see it," Self said. "Yeah, he's worried. We have talked to him about it. Today he didn't back off his shots. Every time he is open, I want him to shoot it. We are not going to be a great team unless he shoots it.

"It will come back. How many baseball players have been in slumps?" Self added. "Some last a week, two weeks. His has been extended a bit. Our team will not be a great team if he is not a great shooter, not even close."

It was not an easy victory for the Jayhawks (7-2), who did lead, 24-17, after Rush canned a three with 6:01 left in the first half. Lodrick Stewart scored seven points in an 11-3 run that gave USC a one-point lead at 4:01.

KU, however, paced by Jackson's five points and Collins' three, answered with eight straight points and led, 35-28 and 37-33 at the break.

The Jayhawks led, 48-45, with 14:14 left, then went on a 6-0 run, sparked again by a bucket by Jackson (11 points), two free throws by Collins and 15-footer by Chalmers (13 points, four assists with six steals). However, Chalmers fell after a steal, and Stewart hit a trey at 11:21, slicing the gap back to six points.

The Jayhawks, who hit seven of 10 free throws the final five minutes, were able to do enough to keep the Trojans at bay.

"It was kind of like a dogfight," Chalmers said. "We had nothing going for us on offense, so we kept fighting on defense."

The grittiness pleases Self.

"It's good to win games when you shoot 38 percent," Self said. "It shows you are guarding, doing some other things."

KU next will meet Toledo at noon Saturday at Kemper Arena.

Check out more on KU's win over USC

Comments

mitch (anonymous) says...

Rush's shot will come back as long as he doesn't dwell on it. The key is that he still made contributions to a win in other ways. A great team finds a way to win, even when some of its usual tools aren't working. The defensive effort was important. Now, if they can figure a way to keep up that level of defensive intensity at a time the shots are falling, they will be in really good shape for conference play and for March. The free throws were falling a bit better, but there is much room for improvement. Especially if they want to play tenacious defense. That style of play will often lead the opposing team into foul trouble, and you better be able to step up to the line and make them pay for the foul. Go 'Hawks!

December 5, 2006 at 6:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

larkandtyler (anonymous) says...

Rodrick would have shut down Lodrick. Self should have put him in earlier. They have telepathy for goodness sakes! But it worked out OK...if you like the Baltimore Ravens. I'm more of an offensive man myself. i believe close games always leave open the possibility for a crap team to hit a couple 3s and win (sound familiar?). Blow them out of the water w/ 90 points, and we've got no problem. We can always dream...

December 5, 2006 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

saad007 (anonymous) says...

Our defense was amazing! Now it's time to work on our offense, which needs a lot of work if we wanna win it all in march!

December 5, 2006 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

crimsoninracine (anonymous) says...

"A great team finds a way to win"...we are in no way a "great team" currently. Our defense was good...maybe Coach Self failed to notice that USC was in the bonus with about 16 minutes left in the second half. Foul-happy does not equal great defense. It's nice that Rush was able to keep Young in check...would have been just as nice to keep Stewart in check. If Robinson hadn't jabbed him in the eye...I love KU, but this team is still overrated. Last night we got out-coached for 40 minutes. If Floyd had more talent we'd be looking at our second loss in a row. To think that there are only a dozen teams considered better than us? This must be a down year in college basketball. I hope we can improve like we did last year. Right now, we look average at best.

December 5, 2006 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jayloco (anonymous) says...

I am not one to comment on officiating, but I was at the game and this had to be the WORST officiating crew in the history of basketball. Calls made before an offensive player ever made a move, TONS of calls in the front court for little or no contact, the best one was near the end of the game when Wright flopped and the ref seemingly was going to call a blocking foul. It was almost like the ref knew the place would go nuts if he called the blocking foul so he changed it to a charge. Wow, those guys should never officiate a game again. I heard it was a PAC 10 officiating crew, but not sure how true that is.

As for us, man, awesome defense, atrocious offense. Nothing would fall in the 2nd half. Hopefully Shady can learn to stay out of foul trouble and in times such as last night, we can lean on him and Jackson to score down low. Sasha Kaun, I really feel sorry for the guy. It is like the injury took away all of his ability to play in the post. Terrible shot selection, bad passes, just ruined his night. I am hoping it is just rust, but he is going to have to pick it up if the Hawks want to establish scoring opportunities down low...

December 5, 2006 at 8:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

GIHAWK (anonymous) says...

I thought it was the best defensive effort that I have seen in a long time. But the last time Floyd beat us was when Roy was here. Self knows how to play against slow down teams like USC.

December 5, 2006 at 8:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

pilot100 (anonymous) says...

First thing I would have done is SHOT! all the refs.....

December 5, 2006 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Leprechaunking13 (anonymous) says...

crimsoninracine, self was definitely not outcoached this game, I would like to know why you think that. We have an off night on offense, yeah but our defense was practically impenatrable except for Lodrick and he made most of his shots on the move and with a hand in his face. The one mistake he did make was not playing Rodrick enough, big deal. That and the refs last night were terrible! i know I know don't blame the refs, but when you call things before a play is made or 10 seconds after the play is over you can yell and blame the refs cause that is inexcusable to do all throughout the game. When Lodrick got hit in the eye the ref waited for him to flop on the ground 10 seconds last before he called the foul. It almost would have been worth the fine for Self to have ripped those refs after the game!

December 5, 2006 at 8:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

CasperCorps (anonymous) says...

I took my girlfriends son to his first game last night and would like to thank all those around us for keeping the profanity to a minimum, especially on a night when the refs deserved it..... Good game Hawks!!!

December 5, 2006 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

lrahardja (anonymous) says...

Last night's defense was relentless, GREAT efforts. Our players need to get used to this type of efforts and defense intensity, while improving their offense efficiency and accuracy. This will require a lot more stamina and conditioning. Go Hawks, you can do it!!!

December 5, 2006 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jcsmith (anonymous) says...

Jayloco,

How was the atmosphere when Rush got his standing ovation? Was it just mediocre or better? I wish he was making more shots but that's cool. He's still one of my favorite players.

Great defense last night. Chalmers was awesome on the steals. He's the most consistent player so far this year in my book. One thing I think has hurt us the last two games is the early foul trouble. Especially with Shady. We gotta have him underneath. Huge presence for us.

As far as officiating, just watchin on TV, I called about 15 or so bad calls and missed calls. Even the television announcers were talkin about the officiating at times. I feel the officials should be fined for either making bad calls that are blatantly not a foul, or for not calling blatant fouls. I know they can only see so much but there were many on the ball fouls lastnight that were not called. It's that way in all sports. I feel the officials can just run free with no repercussions for there actions. Time to start fining them or something. Suspend them a few games just like they would a player for a bad screw up. They can affect the outcome of a game just as much as the players.

December 5, 2006 at 9:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

notabandwagonfan (anonymous) says...

for all of you that can sit there and say i love ku and blah blah blah, if you really did you'd realize that a victory is victory. Usc is a talented team, and they will prove that later on in the season. We won, and you bitch. We lose, and you bitch. When is it ever going to be good enough? Does KU have to go undefeated every season and win by an average 40 points a game? I hope that our team gets better as they go along, because you shouldnt be playing your best basketball in early December. And to say that there should be more teams ranked ahead of us? Thats bull crap, and apparently you didnt watch the Florida game if you really mean that. Yes they are inconsistant, but they are still a top 5 team in the country!

December 5, 2006 at 9:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

KUMatt2001 (anonymous) says...

It seemed to me last night there were many times on offense we were trying real hard to run something... players pointing for others to get to a spot, passing up open shots because it's not the look they want, a couple of half-court traps with Sasha and Rush, I even saw Coach Self call out a certain play one time. But we still do not have the discipline to stick with it. Especially late in the second half, we abandoned that and relied on individual ability. Self can be excited all he wants about our defense last night, but we play like that against a more talented team that plays and is coached like that, and we're looking at our second loss in six games AT Allen Fieldhouse.

Tough defense can win you quite a few games at Oklahoma State, ORU, Tulsa, and Illinois, but if you want to be a perennial powerhouse at Kansas, you've got to run a system that consistently produces points night-in and night-out no matter who you play!

Here's to Coach Self figuring that out someday. Rock Chalk!

BTW, we are a top 5 team in the country based on talent alone- which will only take you so far.

December 5, 2006 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kggosa (anonymous) says...

i remember scoring in the 90s every game for a time under roy. and what did that do for us? a lot of Ws against teams that couldn't play defense, but once we met a team that played lock-down defense and slowed down the transition game, we lost. that usually happened (as i recall)in the tourney when we lost to non-big twelve(eight) teams (often ACC and big east teams). those old KU teams did not know how to win against good defense or when the shots weren't falling. those high scores often came as a result of fastbreaks off of made baskets.

to paraphrase Self... there shouldn't be a need to fastbreak off a made basket, because the other team shouldn't be making baskets.

December 5, 2006 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jayloco (anonymous) says...

jcsmith-the atmosphere was cool when Brandon got his ovation. I think a lot of fans realize he is really struggling right now and it's tough to be hard on him. I have posted stuff about how I don't think he is an All American, and I stand by that. But, I have to give him props for continuing to play through his slump, doing the little things like rebounding, blocking shots, setting picks, etc. I think the fans truly appreciate his persistence in trying to get through this. I think he would benefit from at least 1 more year of college ball after this one.

notabandwagonfan- C'mon man, didn't we talk about you needing to take and continue to stay on your medication? Chill man. I will give you this, you are one of the biggest die hard KU fans on this board. You would take a bullet for KU. I can appreciate that, but don't let those KU blinders keep you from living in reality man. Some people go overboard, but you need to take a hard look at those people who have legitimate concerns about this team. That being said, continue your undying devotion to KU dude.

December 5, 2006 at 10:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

notabandwagonfan (anonymous) says...

I have no doubts about KU. After seeing the way they CAN play, its just a matter of time before it all comes together. And when it does, you little bitches crying on here wont be. Thats just how you are! And you are right, i love this program to death! But i dont have blinders on. I'm also an optimist, and i can see positive things. I know we have weaknesses, but who doesnt? There is not 1 team in America that is head and shoulders better than anyone. Thats why I will take my chances with all this talent and all the time in the world!

December 5, 2006 at 10:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

Its the coaching! Bill Self constantly--and I do mean constantly--blames the players for everything that goes wrong. How many of you have heard him take responsibility even once for underachieving teams or performances? Not me. You can say what you want to, but when I see Darrell Arthur subbing in and out of games in the final minutes on dead balls, I seriously have to question Self's judgement in certain situations. News flash: arthur is our leading scorer!!!

Coach Self is a great recruiter and I don't want to take that away from him. He is a good basketball coach, and I don't mean to imply that he's not a good fit at Kansas. But people! Is it too much to say that a Coach should create the atmosphere that fosters development? isnt that a coach's responsibility? i mean honestly! The lack of mental toughness is apalling! You don't see that with Coach K's players, or at least not often. You didn't often see it with Roy Williams' teams here at Kansas (Roy toppled mighty giants with names such as Jeff Gueldner and Pekka Markkanen). You NEVER saw it in Dean Smith's teams. The players all got the right mindset from their coach.

Repeat it: the players get the right mindset from their coach!

Again...the players get the right mindset from their coach!

Bill Self, if youre reading this: We want you at Kansas. You represent the program well. But please...PLEASE...accept responsibility for instilling the mental aspect of the game to your players.

A teacher teaches kids HOW to think. A teacher that just teaches facts does a great disservice to his students. A coach is a teacher on the court. I am not a Self hater. I respect what he has done at colleges in the NCAA. But someone HAS to say that while at Kansas, Coach has had his problems with underachieving teams. This has been an issue no matter WHO the players have been.

I love Kansas basketball, and I speak the truth only because I want to see more Ws in the win column for the Crimson and Blue. Coach Self: please coach this team! To many Jayhawk fans Basketball is life itself!

Rock Chalk from a true, die-hard fan!!!!!!
beak em hawks

December 5, 2006 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jayloco (anonymous) says...

notabandwagonfan-understood and agreed. Just remember your posts carry a lot more clout when you don't refer to people as "bitches" and try to keep an open mind to their opinions. Try countering their opinions rather than just calling them fair weather fans or further expletives. I agree that some people just post hater garbage, but try not to let these people under your skin man. Relax, go to your happy place.

December 5, 2006 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jayloco (anonymous) says...

jross1972-I think Bill may have been subbing DA in and out because he had 4 fouls with 5 1/2 minutes to play. I believe he was subbing him in on offense and taking him out for defense. I could be wrong on that, but that would seem to be the logical reason for subbing him in and out, to protect him from fouling out.

December 5, 2006 at 10:56 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

cobweb (anonymous) says...

We got the wrong Stewart !

December 5, 2006 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

esubrett (anonymous) says...

jayloco
That was an all Pac-10 crew. And all I have to say is worst crew ever. The example is Shady's fourth foul. The "moving screen" foul. Good thing it didn't cost us a win. How did a Pac-10 crew get into our house?

December 5, 2006 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jayhawk86 (anonymous) says...

The officials were awful last night. At one point in the second half, everyone in in our section was laughing it was so comical. We all decided it was pointless to get upset and yell at the refs, because it was so awful it was funny. How do you call a foul on a shot AFTER the shot had been rebounded. Crimsonracine, the reason they were in the bonus so early in the second half was because of some of these awful calls. It definately was not because, as you say, they were "foul happy"

It was a good effort, shots werent falling but we still managed to score 10 more points than the opposition. the defense was great. For those of you wanting to score 100 every game, get over it. it just doesnt happen against decent teams. Yes, the Depaul loss hurt but it was a big east team and they all like that ugly ball. usc is a pac10 team and a good one at that. Roy never played the type of non conference schedule that Coach Self does and thats why they always scored so many points. Roys last year here, we scored 100 pts 4 times. unc greenboro, emporia state, unc ashville and umkc. 90 points 5 times. central mo. state, nebraska, wyoming, texas and colorado. I guess my point is that i would rather see us play decent competition and play tought games, than run some team that you couldnt even call a mid major out of the gym.

December 5, 2006 at 11:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

BigTamale (anonymous) says...

I agree with Kggosa...

Defense does win Championships. I remember that 01-02 season when we were blowing everyone out. Then we played OU in the Big 12 championship and KU could not respond to their defense! They scored like 19 points at halftime.
Same with Syracuse, that zone just killed us in 03.
Right now, KU's defense hasn't missed a beat.

Unfortunately the Objective behind basketball is to outscore your opponent, which includes:
Making 3 point shots to break up zones
Shooting better than 35% from the floor
and making freethrows!!!!!!!!!! (they shot well yesterday but that was probably an abberation).

December 5, 2006 at 11:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jcsmith (anonymous) says...

Quote from notabandwagonfan:

How many of you have heard him take responsibility even once for underachieving teams or performances?

Just for reference on Coach Selfs behalf, if you happened to catch The Bill Self Show lastnight before the game on local 38 The Spot, they were reviewing the Depaul and Dartmouth games. During Depauls review, Coach Self said directly on the show that he was to blame for certain aspects of that game. I can't recall exactly what was said but he did state specific situations where he was in the wrong and admitted that.

Simply stating that it seems Coach Self does accept blame when blame is due.

December 5, 2006 at 11:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jcsmith (anonymous) says...

Sorry, above quote was from jross1972. My apologies notanotherbandwagonfan.

December 5, 2006 at 11:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jhawk3 (anonymous) says...

The Best Defense I've seen in a long time.Great job guys.Hang in there, the shots will start falling...........

December 5, 2006 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jakejayhawk (anonymous) says...

I posted after Depaul and said that the coaches needed to take reponsibility for that game. I did not feel that Coach made changes to try to alter the rhythm that Depaul developed offensively in the final 10 minutes.

That said, last night I saw him change our style for just that reason. Late in the game he stopped us and instructed the guys to play deliberate and milk the clock. We took a good shot if it came earlier, but otherwise ran down to the end of the shot clock. This resulted in several penetration moves as the clock wound down. Good things happened. We simply did not give USC a chance to get back in the end. Great execution from the guys and great coaching!

December 5, 2006 at 12:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

notabandwagonfan (anonymous) says...

well i directed the bitch comments to the people who dont have an open mind on here. Certainly everyone has a right to their own opinion and they have that right to express it, but when i feel their opinion is wrong I am going to tell them that. I hate peoples opinions that we need a new coach, or that we aren't a good team. We are a very good team. Yes, we are inconsistant, and yes, we do need someone to light a fire in some of these kids, but its like kicking a dead horse sometimes! These kids need to take responsibility for themselves. They play great against Florida and make Self look like a genius. They play bad offensively agains DePaul and then have everyone blamming it on Self. I've played sports in my life. I know that a coach has no bearing on if i show up to play or not. Self deserves some crap he gets, but not nearly what he is having to deal with. This goes on the players, because we simply cannot make a basket, and we still score 72 points!

December 5, 2006 at 12:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

bigjay2010 (anonymous) says...

I think that Rush is an awsome player but just hasn't shown his skills for this year yet. He is still playin like it the offseason or something. For the jayhawks sake I hope he starts playin like he did last year.

December 5, 2006 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jaybate (anonymous) says...

I guess I saw a different game last night. Good defense? Nope. I saw scrappy defense. I saw a lot of effort. I saw guys scratching and biting. But I saw a lot of really rotten defensive fundamentals and mental lapses on defense.

Lodrick Stewart ate first RR and then Collins alive. Its not that he made shots; that happens. Its that Lodrick was handing their jocks to them with fakes. It was embarrassing to watch. Collins, who is one of those guys who likes to get down and look like a defender was repeatedly going with the fakes and not with the Stewart's belly button. RR did better, but even he did not adjust his game for Stewart's superior speed. It is not good defense to get in a guy's jock strap when he's faster than you. Its stupid defense.

Next, Rush, who I have thought has played pretty good D most of the season, played awful defense against USC. He didn't shut the his man down. The man had a lousy shooting night. Rush was constantly getting caught flat footed and out of position. Brandon didn't really even wake up get after his man until the second half. Again, none of that adds to good defense. He was just lucky his man was as cold as KU's whole team was on offense. Do you attribute KU's poor shooting to great D by USC? Of course not. Likewise, you don't attribute Brandon's man's off night to Brandon's lackadaisical defense.

And Chalmers couldn't shut down his man. I believe it was Taj Grey. Grey's pretty good for a frosh, but Chalmers is supposed to be a stopper on the perimeter. He didn't get many stops.

The true good news about this game was Kaun and Jackson. Jackson finally returned to his level of play at the end of last season and gave them 20 minutes. If they get that from Darnell, nightly, they can win even on bad nights.

And Kaun banged and pummelled USC's post men for 17 minutes; that's all we need from Sasha now. If he can rough up opponents for 17 minutes every night, it doesn't matter that he has no offensive whatsoever.

Kaun and Jackson were the difference in last night's game. Their floor play and Jackson's bench scoring were decisive. They bought KU the time to find a way to win.

December 5, 2006 at 1:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jaybate (anonymous) says...

Of course, these weak defensive fundamentals are what is getting them caught in a lot of these close games. And its going to kill them if they don't fix it.

Notice Self is no longer talking about getting "stops" with this team, like he did last year.

I think he knows he doesn't have a great defensive team this year and its useless to talk about stops, when you don't have stoppers. He's praising effort now.

Frankly, Coach Self is doing a good coaching job IMHO. He's building this team from scratch. This is not last year's team with a year's more experience. Without Giles and with only half a Kaun remaining, he's taken the team apart and is allowing itself to reorganize itself much the way he did last year. Frankly, its amazing he can do it and win as many games as he does. I bet he goes home to his wife at night and says, while stabbing the mashed potatoes, "Gee, I wonder when I'm not going to have to start from scratch every year, honey?"

The most significant thing about the USC game is this: Coach Self turned the team's offence back over to Brandon. True, Brandon stunk up the floor, but Coach Self is done tinkering at this point and he's going to spend the rest of the games before conference letting/making Brandon carry the team on his back. Its the only way to get Brandon's groove back and Brandon with his groove back is the only way for this team to be exceptional.

Coach Self is a crafty one. He knows alot about taking a team apart and putting it back together. He's gutty too. He's not afraid to spend some time looking bad, while he buys young guys the experience they need for later in the season.

Clearly, the plan to date has been to put Brandon on the back burner and get Wright and Arthur a gut check on what the blocks are all about. Good as they are, they aren't ready to carry a team against all comers. The only guy who can do that, if he gets his groove back, is Brandon Rush. The man-child just has more talent than any three man he comes up against.

But to give Arthur and Wright the seasoning on the blocks early that they needed, Self had to have Rush play the Michael Jordan game--sand bag for three quarters making other players better and then take over in the fourth. But it seems Brandon isn't quite mature enough mentally to be able to turn his game on and off at will the way his airness used to. So: Self's tinkering and rebuilding scheme has kind of goofed up Rush's game more than he anticipated at least temporarily. Hence, Self went to his star just the same way he did last year and handed him the ball and said carry us kid. Score however you can. Shoot whether they drop or not.

December 5, 2006 at 1:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jaybate (anonymous) says...

Well, Brandon was a little rusty at carrying a team and fumbled it, because he's been busy being confused about how to be like Mike. But I bet in 2-3 more games of 15-20 shot games, like Stella, he's going to get his groove back...and just in time for the conference...just like old Coach plans.

As I'll go to my death bed saying, I don't like the kind of ball Coach Self coaches, but he's darned good at it. I've never seen a guy who could tinker with the parts and stir the stew and still bring it together.

Coach Self really is the opposite of Coach Williams in soooo many ways. Coach Williams used to like to make the same meat and potatoes every year and just season it a bit differently. But at the end of the year, you always knew pretty much what it was going to look like.

Coach Self really breaks teams all the way down to their most basic parts and kind of lets them recombine in a new stew every year. He may have a pretty good idea what the stew will wind up tasting like, but I believe he's so confident he's even comfortable with being surprised by the taste...if its good. :-)

Coach Self is alot smarter as a team builder than I ever gave him credit for and I gave him quite a bit of credit for that from the start.

Winning 25-28 games without any legitimate, experienced post men is apt to be his best coaching job yet, if he pulls it off.

If 3-4 games from now Brandon has his groove back, Coach Self likely will.

December 5, 2006 at 1:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

truefan (anonymous) says...

I don't want to praise Coach just yet, but I also do not want him fired. I think Coach is learning little by little how to manage a game. He made some mistakes yesterday by not calling a time out when USC went up by one point near the end of the first half. He got bailed out by the USC coach because the USC coach felt he needed to call a good play to make sure that we did not score on the next posession. Although, our coach should have called the time out himself, he still drew up a hell of a play for our offense to use coming out of the time out that gave us the lead right back. He made the same mistake against Depaul after he let them score 16 unanswered points he still did not call a time out to stop the bleeding. It ended up costing us the game. Luckily, I think he will learn from those games and eventually be able to tell when his team needs a breather and a sure fire play. It's going slow and it has cost a couple of games, but it may be good for his learning as well as the teams'.

December 5, 2006 at 1:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

mcoan (anonymous) says...

For the first time in 30 years, I am not having fun watching KU basketball. Actually got bored last night.

What gets me is the idea that ANY of these fellas is ready for the NBA. What a big joke. None of them are stars. A star scores 18-25 pts./night. He says, "fellas, get me the ball...I'm going to win this thing for us." He fires up the others. and he does it every night. We don't have anyone who can do any of that. I keep waiting, but we haven't had that caliber of player in years.

I still say that Coach needs to bench all 5 when they screw up, as Roy did. And when a player gets down court first and jacks a 3 with 28 seconds on the shot clock and no teammate around, he should ride the pine for at least 3 min. to think about what he did.

Fact is, I don't see Self ever punish anyone for doing anything wrong. I also don't see him adjust the offense or defense for different phases of the game, or when a player is hot, etc. It's always the same ol, lame ol.

I had hopes because he was a graduate assistant under Brown , and I thought some of that great on-the-fly adjusting would have rubbed off on him. I was wrong.

December 5, 2006 at 2:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

notabandwagonfan (anonymous) says...

Stop bringing up Roy! He left 4 damn years ago and its a different breed of basketball!!!!!!!!!!!! If you dont have fun, turn the channel and watch North Carolina. Maybe that will liven up your life. Fact is, its hard to get your offense into rythm while your best scorer is on the bench 3 minutes into the game with 2 fouls! Fact is C.J. Giles was kicked off the team for his violations. Fact is that you are wrong, because it did!

December 5, 2006 at 2:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

Well I wouldn't go as far as to say I'm not having fun, but I agree with you to some extent. I'm a 30-year watcher of KU basketball myself, back to the days of Ted Owens (not many people here can say they remember back that far). I can definitely vouch for the fact that the feel is different now and there seems to be uneasiness in the air. The confidence and swagger seem vanishingly small at the moment. Don't lose hope though! KU's history and tradition will carry us!

Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!!

December 5, 2006 at 2:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

kggosa, you talk about KU's former coach (I refuse to name him) winning against easy competition, then losing when it counts. FYI, he's fourth among active coaches in tournament winning percentage, behind only Coach K, Izzo, & Pitino. He's ahead of all the other big names. So it's a little ridiculous to say his teams couldn't win against good defensive teams. The fact is that even though Self is a good coach, I would take our former coach again in a heartbeat.

December 5, 2006 at 2:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jcsmith (anonymous) says...

Qouted from mcoan:

I don't see Self ever punish anyone for doing anything wrong

Who's to say who does wrong? We dont know exactly Coach Selfs game plan everytime up and down the court. There for, how do we know exactly when someone is wrong?

As for Mr. Giles. Yes, he deserves every bit of punishment handed to him. But can you honestly set there and say that we are as good a team without him? He may not have been the team leader, but it sure would be nice to still have his height.

December 5, 2006 at 2:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

roy williams! i still love him. I'd give my right arm for that man. He gave us 15 good years at Kansas and folks here act as if he didn't do anything for us. He chose us once over UNC, and then later decided he wanted to go home. We should all be so fortunate. If you could get inside Roy's head at the moment, I'm sure he'd tell you he STILL loves Kansas with a passion. But to hear how fans here speak of him as if he'd trampled the crimson and blue colors, you'd think he didn't do a damn thing for KU! We have Coach Self, and I'll support him because he's a good coach. But Roy Williams got Kansas when we were on probation and lost all of our best players. Recruiting wasn't easy. Roy kept KU in national prominence. Shame on all of you who have forgotten that! Besides, it's not the first time we've made a hefty donation to UNC, and we've managed to survive. be happy for roy. be happy for self. just please stop all the hating!!!!

December 5, 2006 at 2:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

lalawguy (anonymous) says...

I live in LA and have seen a lot of Pac 10 games (they are the only games that you can find on TV after 9 p.m.). The refs out here are definitely more finicky than those you find on the East Coast. I recognized last night's crew as a Pac-10 crew.

That's why they made so many ticky-tack calls. Unlike the refs from the other power conferences, the Pac 10 refs don't let their players play. That's why a lot of the Pac 10 teams (like Stanford a few years ago) tend to soften during conference play. Watch how this year's UCLA and USC teams will become much weaker teams come NCAA tournament time.

December 5, 2006 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jayhawk86 (anonymous) says...

Jaybate, I guess you were watching a different game. Because the game that i watched was a great defensive effort by the Jayhawks. I saw a team force 25 turnovers, get 15 steals and block 9 shots. thats a pretty good defensive game imho.

"And Chalmers couldn't shut down his man. I believe it was Taj Grey. Grey's pretty good for a frosh, but Chalmers is supposed to be a stopper on the perimeter. He didn't get many stops."

All he did was force Taj Gibson into 11 turnovers. I don't know what you consider a stop but coming up with 6 steals along with those turnovers seems to be a good job defensively. Maybe you have different standards.

These stats dont happen because of poor defensive position and flatfootedness as you so wanted to point out.

"Next, Rush, who I have thought has played pretty good D most of the season, played awful defense against USC."

I guess holding the other teams leading scorer to 3/13 shooting is bad D. I guess it was just luck that he missed all of those shots.

People, those of you who wanna sound as if you know something about basketball and coaching , please check your bias and cynicism at the door. When you make statements that are clearly not even close to true and are just your meanspirited way of always finding the negative and never the positive in the team, it gets old. Go find youself a little league team to coach that you can give your great all knowing knowledge. It is obvious to me that you are all great coaches and deserve to spread your knowledge. Hell, maybe you can even get someone to pay you for it. Good luck and god bless in this endeavor.

December 5, 2006 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

calstones (anonymous) says...

Its hard to get into an offensive rhythm when all you do is stand around. How many times last night did you see when 1 guy was dribbling the ball and the other four were standing around? Heck, even that one time when they showed Rush up close and said how the defenders were "faceguarding" them. he was just standing. The defense is great but I think a new offense might help. one where all 5 guys are constantly moving, and if they get tired, we have plenty of depth.

December 5, 2006 at 4:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

notabandwagonfan (anonymous) says...

I havent forgotten Roy Williams, and I realize what a great coach he is. The thing is, he left us, so what do we owe to him? Nothing, because apparently the grass is greener over in North Carolina. Thats fine that he wants to return home, but he shouldn't have lied to you, and all of us the first time. Great coach, but I think that Self has a little more loyalty to his players, fans, and the program. Who would want to sign an extension and have to listen to all the crap you people give him? I applaud the man! As for Roy Williams, i certainly would not give my arm or any part of my anatomy for that man. He won us alot of games, but we had all of those great teams and never won championships. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Roy Williams will never win another championship as a coach!

December 5, 2006 at 4:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

rockchalkAZ (anonymous) says...

I LOVE the way the jayhawks played last night. Forcing turnovers and taking shots when they were there. If they had made their normal percentage last night that would have been a 20-30 point win; the shots just didn't fall. And the missed layups were a little annoying, but overall i thought it was a great game.

December 5, 2006 at 4:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

danharris1 (anonymous) says...

Took the words right out of my mouth notabandwagonfan! And a couple of calls against Arthur were a joke!

December 5, 2006 at 5:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

DerekR25 (anonymous) says...

jross,
I totally agree with you on most of your last post. Especially the "hefty donation" phrase. That was a good way of putting it. We gave them their history making coach, then he gave us Roy. We gave them Matt Doherty who was able to recruit the likes of Sean May, McCants, Felton, etc. to NC (basically setting up Roy's championship), then we gave Roy right back to NC so he could go win that championship. It's a damn shame he never was able to bring home the goods to the place that supported and loved him for 15 years though (Hey actorman, he did lose when it counted- 15yrs in a row he did, even with some of KU's most outstanding teams ever).

My only problem is that the Roy Williams era ended as it began- with KU ending up on probation. Not saying he's totally responsible but there's a lot that he, his AD, and asst. AD at the time could have done a lot better. (Strictly speaking basketball here, no other sport) And now, it's the same situation as in '89 where the current coach and AD are left to clean up the mess and right the ship.

I think the best thing about coach Self is that, in my opinion, he runs his program with more integrity, class and honesty than a lot of coaches in recent memory. He's straight forward honest about anything and will tell you his opinion on anything, and the fact that he showed the kind of love and compassion and mentorship for his kids by wanting to keep a guy like Giles to the point where he really couldn't, trying to give him the chance to change his life. That speaks volumes to who we really have coaching our team. He's an awesome guy, and as jaybate was mentioning earlier is so crafty and a lot more knowledgeable in the game of basketball than people give him credit for. I loved the Williams era, and grew up with it, and love everything Roy did for this program in keeping it on a national level year in and year out, but for the future of our program, I'd trust it in Self's hands over any others in a heartbeat

December 5, 2006 at 5:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Mollyolly1986 (anonymous) says...

I was just thinking I love the jayhawks, they won the game, and I went to bed happy. Everyone husteled and some shots fell.

December 5, 2006 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

nveyt_truong (anonymous) says...

Any word on who's going to replace Self yet?

December 5, 2006 at 8:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

nveyt_truong (anonymous) says...

p.s. no coach ever wasted more all-americans than Roy, but self is getting there.

December 5, 2006 at 8:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kcroyal (anonymous) says...

Does anyone worry about us playing to the level of our competition and that is maybe why we are getting beat in the first round of the tourney the last couple of years? I certainly hope not!!!!!! Hawks in the Final Four in 2007. Go HAWKS!!!!!!!

December 5, 2006 at 8:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

tsweat (anonymous) says...

kcroyal you are right on. i have been worried about that since self got here. besides the regular season texas game last year ku has shown up and won basically every big game they play in under self. problem is we get upset cuz they come out with no intensity at all against the crap teams. that is why we have gone down in the first round. i would like to see self actually coach, i think he should have got a T last night when all the calls were going against us. we needed something to wake us up. self is the definition of underachiever. chalmers is the best player on this team. he shows up almost every game and its on both sides of the ball. he seems to get less respect cuz he is on the passing end of the big dunks

December 5, 2006 at 10:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jaybate (anonymous) says...

Like I said, Jayhawk86, we apparently did see different games. Rush didn't make his man shoot a lousy percentage any more than the USC player defending Rush made him shoot a lousy percentage. Rush is in a slump no matter who is guarding him and the guy Rush was defending obviously had an off night unrelated to Rush's listless defensive play. And your argument that because Chalmers got six steals he was defending like a stopper doesn't cut it. How many points did his man score? Did his man outscore him. Most steals come from anticipating bad passes that often have nothing at all to do with how well you're defending your own man. The question is: did Chalmers stop his man from scoring? Did his man score more than Chalmers? how many times did chalmers man score, because chalmers was cheating off trying to play for a steal and left his own man open?

i don't really want to discuss this further with someone who can't even understand what basic game stats do and don't indicate.

Regarding Chalmers, I stick with my original point. He's a good player. He's just not exceptional yet. He can't light up a good player offensively, or shut one down defensively. When he does, let me know and I'll change my tune. FWIW, the guy he was guarding wasn't even developed enough to be called a good college basketball player yet, though he will be.

December 5, 2006 at 11:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Lebowski (anonymous) says...

What Jayhawk fans tend to do is compare our teams to KU teams of the past. And that is really unfair to these guys. Roy Williams had a totally different coaching philosophy..... and his teams always seemed to peak by January. Coach Self goes about things a little differently, and of course the results in March have been less than we all want. But he's got another 12 years or so before I judge which way is better.

KU's biggest crime is most definately playing to the level of it's competition. And it's hard for a player to just go out and play basketball like you've got nothing to lose when you're a heavy favorite. But Self takes responsibility for getting them past that, and I believe he will. We were spoiled with Coach Williams in that regard.... he got KU to play regardless of who the opposition was, and if they weren't good enough, it was almost always a blowout. Sure I'd still love to see us blow out the teams that we should, but that can be overrated. A team also needs to learn how to play with composure at the end with the game on the line.

What I love about this team, is that they are constantly looking for solutions.... not for ways to score, or crying about shots. Rush is more concerned with how he's guarding someone than getting his shot to fall. This is the mentality that should pay off later in the season.

December 6, 2006 at 11:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

Derek, I think it's completely unfair to blame KU's former coach for the probation KU is on, and to compare it to 1989 is a real stretch. KU is still the only team in history to not be allowed to defend its championship, and we lost at least one recruit (Harold Minor) because of that. This year's team is allowed to play in the tournament and only lost one scholarship, and as far as I can tell didn't lose any commitments because of it. Those are big differences. In addition, although Brown didn't do anything major (a plane ticket to help a recruit go to his grandmother's funeral, and some clothing), RW did even less. He was asked if it was okay for someone to give small graduation gifts to players AFTER their playing careers had ended. He asked a compliance person, and was told that it was okay. It's not really fair to blame him for being misinformed.

As for his not winning the championship, I'd say getting to four Final Fours and two title games in 15 years is an awfully good record. There's a lot of luck involved in winning a championship, and many of the greatest coaches went years before winning one. There are injuries (such as Jerrod Haase's wrist in '97), a bad day at the free throw line (see 2003) and other factors that come into play. The fact remains that at this point, RW's record is much better than Self's, both in the regular season and in the tournament. That will hopefully change, but right now I believe Self is a very good coach but not on the level of RW, Coach K and a few others.

December 6, 2006 at 6:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jayhawk86 (anonymous) says...

to quote jaybate

"And your argument that because Chalmers got six steals he was defending like a stopper doesn't cut it. How many points did his man score? Did his man outscore him. Most steals come from anticipating bad passes that often have nothing at all to do with how well you're defending your own man. The question is: did Chalmers stop his man from scoring? Did his man score more than Chalmers? how many times did chalmers man score, because chalmers was cheating off trying to play for a steal and left his own man open?

i don't really want to discuss this further with someone who can't even understand what basic game stats do and don't indicate."

That could possibly be the worst logic i ever heard jaybate. Just because another player scores more than you does not mean you didnt do a good job defensivly. You comepletly dismiss the fact that chalmers forced him into 11 turnovers. How many of those could have been shots or assists. of course chalmers played good d and was a stopper. for goodness sakes Taj was the teams leading scorer. but because chalmers made him turn the ball over and got some steals he did force usc to look to other people.

I guess by your logic, if chalmers had held him to 4 points while scoring 2 then he would have done a bad job, because he was out scored. this argument is ridiculous.

December 6, 2006 at 11:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jayhawk86 (anonymous) says...

My fault for the misquote. young was the leading scorer going into the game, but collins still did a good job

December 7, 2006 at 12:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jayhawk86 (anonymous) says...

chalmers

December 7, 2006 at 12:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal )