Originally published October 2, 2012 at 12:00a.m., updated October 2, 2012 at 10:52a.m.

KU’s Weis playing up first rivalry game with K-State, Snyder’s 21st

Kansas University coach Charlie Weis, left, and Kansas State coach Bill Snyder, right, will face off for the first time in the annual KU-KSU rivalry football game on Saturday in Manhattan. Weis will be the fifth Jayhawk coach Snyder has faced in 21 years with the Wildcats.

Kansas University coach Charlie Weis, left, and Kansas State coach Bill Snyder, right, will face off for the first time in the annual KU-KSU rivalry football game on Saturday in Manhattan. Weis will be the fifth Jayhawk coach Snyder has faced in 21 years with the Wildcats.


In the 21 years that Bill Snyder has paced the sideline as the head coach at Kansas State, he has stared across the field at four different Kansas University head coaches during the annual Sunflower Showdown.

None of those KU coaches had much success against Snyder, the 72-year-old coach who once was known as the architect of one of the greatest turnarounds in college football and now is simply known as one of the greatest coaches in college football.

Glen Mason went 3-5 against Snyder. Terry Allen was 0-5. Mark Mangino finished 1-4 — and benefited from the Ron Prince era when Snyder stepped away for three seasons — and Turner Gill finished 0-2, with the Wildcats hanging 59 points on the Jayhawks in back-to-back seasons.

Snyder will face his fifth KU coach this Saturday, in Manhattan, when Charlie Weis brings his 1-3 Jayhawks to town for an 11 a.m. kickoff against unbeaten and seventh-ranked K-State at Bill Snyder Family Stadium. Although the names of the opposing coaches have changed, Snyder’s approach to the showdown has not. Each year, Snyder has made sure the meeting with the Jayhawks was viewed as one of the Wildcats’ biggest games, and his dominant 16-4 record against Kansas illustrates that his emphasis has been worthwhile. However, the beauty of his approach, Snyder said, is that, most years, it’s unnecessary.

“I don’t think you have to find ways to motivate young guys because I think it means an awful lot to them,” he said during Monday’s Big 12 coaches teleconference. “We have a lot of young guys from the state of Kansas in the program so it carries some extra meaning for them. And their teammates appreciate that a great deal, so I think there is a built-in motivation.”

The Wildcats are a team Weis has talked plenty about since taking the job at KU last December. His focus, however, has not centered around this specific match-up but rather Snyder’s sustained excellence and how it relates to the program Weis believes KU could and should have.

“The University of Kansas was 2-10 (in 2011),” Weis said at his introduction. “The other major school in the state is Kansas State, who was 10-2. I only have one question to ask: Why? Why is the University of Kansas 2-10 and why is Kansas State 10-2? I don’t have that answer, but that is what I am here for.”

Obviously, it has been slow going in that regard, but as Weis takes his first stab against Snyder this weekend, he’s hoping that his players realize the same thing he realized before he ever set foot in Lawrence.

“When I got here it was always Kansas-Missouri if you were from Kansas,” he said. “But at Kansas State it was, ‘Let’s go beat Kansas.’ The last three years they have laid a pretty big whooping on us. Now that Missouri is in the SEC, Kansas needs to have that same focus and energy on the in-state rival that Kansas State does. That’s the direction we are headed.”

The rivalry’s importance was a popular topic on Weis’ weekly Hawk Talk radio show Monday night. And he emphasized his stance.

“They’ve done a better job than us of magnifying the importance of this game,” he said of KSU. “And, whether we win or lose, I promise you it won’t be because the game wasn’t magnified in its importance.”

Twitter trouble

Last week, KU defensive lineman Keba Agostinho, however innocently, fired the first shot of bulletin-board material in this week’s Sunflower Showdown when he posted on his Twitter page that KU led the series with KSU, 65-39-5, and even made mention of KU’s hoops dominance.

Asked about the incident on Monday, Weis first pointed out that Agostinho’s misstep was short-lived — “He didn’t tweet it out for long” — and then explained his general policy on social media.

“We don’t tell players what to say and we profess that they use common sense,” Weis said. “For any player to get on Twitter and say something disrespectful to another team doesn’t make any sense. Sometimes young men make mistakes about what to say and what not to say and you just have to use that as a teaching moment to let them know that is not what we are looking for.”

KU-OSU kickoff set

The Kansas football team’s Oct. 13 home game against Oklahoma State will kick off at 2:30 p.m. and will be televised on FSN, the Big 12 announced Monday morning.

It will mark the second game KU has played on FSN this year, as the Jayhawks’ Sept. 8 game against Rice also was on the network.

• A previous version of this story has been updated.


okiedave 10 years ago

The Tulsa World ranked Big XII teams in terms of a how scary the teams were to compete against - with the needle pointed at Low range - Medium range - High range. KU ranked so low the needle did not register as having moved from the starting point of the low range. I so want for this team to become the surprise team of the Big XII. We need to go into Manhatten and get a jaw dropping win.

Theonlythingthatexceedsyourbad 10 years ago

They do play the games for a reason. If K-State were ever to underestimate Kansas (unlikely with their coach) it would be this game.

Maracas 10 years ago

The only thing we're gonna get in Manhattan is rolled.

nuleafjhawk 10 years ago

I wish our coach looked that old and had us ranked #7 in the country......

JakeBarnes 10 years ago

I think nuleaf's comment is funny, but Snyder does look like he is ready of embalming.

squawkhawk 10 years ago

Yeah, Weis looks so much better.

april28 10 years ago

We will know quite a bit about the KU football team sometime around 2:30pm on Saturday.

In a season that will now be measured in "how close" we play the rest of our competition, everyone involved in KU football is about to enter a long, extended and painful gut check.

It's time to see what everybody is made of. Especially the coaching staff.

We'll be cheering you on.

LSHawk 10 years ago

Yep, this entire month is our murder's row of games, K-State, OSU, Oklahoma and then much harder a schedule could someone make?? I'm sure we'll end up 0- 4 this month but how the team plays out that 0-4 will determine how the team plays out the rest of the year.

Cameron Cederlind 10 years ago

This month? Let's just say the entire Big 12 schedule. @Baylor, @TT, and @West Virginia are not going to be pleasant to watch.

hotrodm 10 years ago

This would be a good game for Dayne Crist to pull his head out and play up to his potential. If Crist can complete the majority of his passes, Ku will stay close.

troutsee 10 years ago

I saw Adam play a spectacular game in Lincoln his senior year.

NikeCortez 10 years ago

He is playing up to his potential. WTFU.

Robert Brock 10 years ago

I hope that the Jayhawks play to the best of their abilities. Even if they do, I expect K-State to thrash them pretty hard. The Hawks have a huge talent deficit.

Theonlythingthatexceedsyourbad 10 years ago

I don't think so. The talent difference is there but not huge. It plays a part but there is more to it than that.

I think that the execution difference is the real factor. We haven't executed at all and they have executed very well. With a little more quality execution earlier in the year this pre-game would have a much different feel, that could play to our advantage if we . . . execute.

squawkhawk 10 years ago

And a huge coaching deficit too.

Jeremy Bolinger 10 years ago

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm ready for Snyder to retire. Also, I hope they bring Ron Prince back! :)

Bville Hawk 10 years ago

Re: your wish that Snyder retire. Our goal shouldn't be for KSU to fall back to our level so we can compete with them. Our goal should be to rise to their level so we can compete with them.

Jeff Suther 10 years ago

KU is gonna lose both games by over 35

nuleafjhawk 10 years ago

They're playing a double-header ?

Studogg 10 years ago

Yeah, did I miss the k-state Ron PRICE era? Might wanna check that, LJW...

Michael Fine 10 years ago

How about a fact check on Mangino's 1-4 record?

JayHawk_from_SWKS 10 years ago

Mangino went 1-4 against Snyder and 3-0 against Prince, so 4-4 overall against K-State.

Cameron Cederlind 10 years ago

To Bill Snyder (2002-2005, 2009). His overall record being 4-4

Bodonna 10 years ago

“When I got here it was always Kansas-Missouri if you were from Kansas,” ... not so fast my portly pontificator. When Coach Chaz arrived, Missouri had already moved on to the SEC.

Katie Bieber 10 years ago

I am giving us a 5% chance in this one. Generously. However, K-State gets a little nervous when Crist completes his first 7 passes and we score a TD on the opening drive. The last thing they want to see is the Jayhawks get some confidence! Rock Chalk!

Theonlythingthatexceedsyourbad 10 years ago

We play them 5 times we are going to win one.

Lucas Town 10 years ago

Those are some pretty good odds, 1 out of 5. I think we may be under estimating who their coach is. I would say 1 out of 5 vs. Iowa St. I could believe that. I agree with dstnku34 1 out of 20 (5%) might be more accurate.

actorman 10 years ago

Sadly, I'm not sure if we would win one if we played FIFTY times.

flyingfinn 10 years ago

I said pre-season that we would be more competitve, well now is your chance Hawks. Not expecting a win but not expecting a 59 point blowout either. Come Hawks and coaching staff let's see what we are made of!!

offline 10 years ago

Hope KU can keep it close, maybe by 40 points.

Steve Reigle 10 years ago

Good article, but it's Ron Prince, not Ron Price. Just thought you might want to correct that.

Jeremy Hays 10 years ago

I'm an idiot and the eternal optimist (I know on message boards that is OPEN season on my then) but I really do think that if Crist and the WRs can get on page they can have some success in this game to point of a win... Now I'm not calling out and saying it's a win but I can say that IF (that's a big if I know) the offense clicks in all phases (running, passing and catching) they can beat K-suck.

nuleafjhawk 10 years ago

jayhawk_4_life2, You're not an idiot ( I presume!) I think most everyone can appreciate your optimism, and some of us would probably hope and agree with you (here it comes) - BUT - you can not win, or usually even stay close in this league without top-notch kicking. All of the kicking - kickoffs, punts, field goals, extra points - if you have no kicking game you're usually going to get spanked.

Theonlythingthatexceedsyourbad 10 years ago

It's not the kicking that has lost us those 2 games we should have won. . .

(I understand an upright blocked a kick that would have been the difference against Rice) BUT the QB play and offenses poor fourth quarters lost us those games.

nuleafjhawk 10 years ago

I'm not foolish enough to trade a great QB for a great kicker, but my point is - we give up big yardage on EVERY kickoff by not being able to kick the ball into or out of the end zone. We give up huge yards by not being able to kick field goals. Chip shot field goals even. It's not just the 3 points, or the extra points, it's all the lost yardage that goes along with those things.

actorman 10 years ago

I agree that if the offense clicks, KU can at least be competitive.

The problem is that there's no reason at this point to believe that the offense is going to click.

Rivethead 10 years ago

Won't matter. Right now KSU's crap can play better football than our team.

Geekinout 10 years ago

All old man Snyder did was find a loop hole in the system. Taking illiterate Juco transfers to fill out rosters because their low school athletic academic standards isn't too much to brag about. Not saying he relies on it now, but he took full advantage of it to make that turn around.

blatantdisregard 10 years ago

And your point is what? He didn't field a team of Rhoades scholars? How smart academically do you have to be to play at a high level of football? Are perennial powerhouses like Alabama and Louisiana churning out nuclear physicists? I'd take a team of average intelligence, overachieving JUCO transfers anytime if they can take KU football to the level that Bill Snyder has achieved.

Geekinout 10 years ago

Point is Kstate benefited tremendously by taking many Juco athletes who had lower gpa scores that met their lower school academic requirements, which use to be a significant difference in comparison to most other schools.

Alex Staley 10 years ago

Hey LJWorld/KUSports- Off topic comment: I am really sick of seeing ads with people's belly fat hanging out. I didn't check, but if it is administered through Google Adsense, you have a certain amount of control over what kinds of ads appear on your site. Spammy ads like the one I currently see on this page make the site look less credible and certainly less professional. My $.02.

-Sincerely, An internet marketing professional and dedicated Jayhawk

Theonlythingthatexceedsyourbad 10 years ago

This week is now huge. Forget Missery. They suck in the SEC now, bunch of hillbillies. They're out. Kansas State is the new enemy. They are not unbeatable and frankly are going to overlook the Jayhawks in a minor way that we need to take major advantage of.

A victory here changes the season!!! A loss means nothing. We have absolutely nothing to lose. If we get blown out then that just confirms the doubters. If we show up (yet to happen) then anything is possible. That's why they play the games but we gotta show up like we are capable of (yet to happen).

Showing up is key at a few positions:

QB - If Crist doesn't take the team by the bullhorns in this game then we have to give somebody else a shot to.

WR - Some throws have been there and those have to be reeled in. Separation needs to be improved, not sure there's much we can do to improve that except improve our blitz adjustment.

LB - Somebody's gotta knock Klein around. Tackles need to be mean and with vicious intent. They have to get pressure with the D-line and force bad throws and sacks. We're going to be loading the box, or should be at least.

Geekinout 10 years ago

If Klein tries any qb options, sneaks, or keeps, they need to clobber and rough him up.

Lucas Town 10 years ago

Are we sure our defense is tough enough to make Klein uncomfortable? They don't tackle so well. The D is improving and getting better, but he looked pretty calm and collected against OU.

squawkhawk 10 years ago

Yeah, I predict KSU will have their back up QB in by the start of the 4th quarter.

Tony Bandle 10 years ago

Bill Snyder's secret to succes is's the double earphones. Charlie only has one so he gets distracted. [Of course, Snyder could be listening to an old Lawrence Welk tape and be totally relaxed.]

He does look like 72 going on 102, however!!

My fearless prediction..Kansas over K-State in a monumental upset, 17 to 16 on a last second 50 yard field goal. [Estimated time of departure for butt monkey flight, 3:00 pm, Saturday, October 6, 2012. ]

Jack McEnaney 10 years ago

Plan of attack. Run the ball. Run the ball. Run the ball again. Punt. Play defense. Keep everything in front. Don't turn the ball over. Run the ball. run it again. and again. and again. Manhattan is sooo pleased with their football team. All there team has heard about for the past two weeks is how great they are, how awesome it is that they are in the top ten, how they have a shot at a national title. blah blah blah. Weis knows to beat this team take their game and shove it right back down their throat. Dont turn it over, start running out the clock at the kickoff, and let them beat themselves at the end.

Rivethead 10 years ago

LOL.......find me ANY Bill Snyder-coached team that has EVER beaten themselves. It just doesn't happen. That's what makes Grandpa legendary.

squawkhawk 10 years ago

Yeah, I've never seen any team beat KSU at their own grind it out type of FB. If OU couldn't do it why does anyone think KU will? Even if KSU does overlook KU (which by the way is doubtful), they still win by 3 TDs.

Chayse Patrick 10 years ago

Run the ball Run the ball is exactly right. In fact if they did that versus rice and northern illinois KU is maybe 3 and 1. But OOOOOOOOH no Weis the genius decides to air it out in the 4th quarter with double digit leads and give those games away!!! I will almost bet KU will come out throwing with that no-talent crist and we give kstate a turnover (interception) on their side of the 50 yard line. K-state's secondary is so fast they're gonna have a feast picking off crist all day long. 45-10

2005grad 10 years ago

Running the ball WON'T WORK. They have the nations 15th ranked run defense... Doing that will result in 3&out CITY and they will dominate the time of possession, not to mention our defense.

danmoore 10 years ago

We need to learn to hate K-State the way they hate us. As soon as we learn to view them as our true rival the sooner we are able to compete with them. In real rivalries you can throw out the stats and records.

Brad Watson 10 years ago

The only way we beat them is if we out physical them...wrap have to really put the hurt on them..we play so well as a just have to line up and block and tackle better...thats what they do so well...its not fancy football..its smash mouth...k=state is not Nebraska of old...they arent that there is a chance..but you have to put the hurt on them

squawkhawk 10 years ago

The only way KU beats KSU this year is for them to by more physical for 4 quarters, be able to run the ball on their defense, for Crist to have a breakout game against the best D he will face so far this year and for Weis to out coach Snyder. Can you say "DOUBTFUL!"?

Curtis Stutz 10 years ago

At this point Baylor is starting to look like KU's in-conference rival. I mean they've got the talent to compete in bball, KU actually gave them a game last year in football... ISU is a close second, the Mayor has them poised to improve on the hardwood and KU has a shot at them this season in football. I will not be suckered into some sense of rivalry between KU and KSU in basketball just 'cause someone stooped so low as to hire Bruce Weber. As far as Bill Snyder goes I've got tons of respect for him and hope KSU wins the B12 title this season.

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