Monday, October 10, 2011

Jayhawks ‘hurting’ after loss to OSU

Kansas safety Keeston Terry looks at the scoreboard from the bench during the fourth quarter of the Jayhawks' 70-28 loss to Oklahoma State on Saturday, Oct. 8, 2011 at Boone Pickens Stadium.

Kansas safety Keeston Terry looks at the scoreboard from the bench during the fourth quarter of the Jayhawks' 70-28 loss to Oklahoma State on Saturday, Oct. 8, 2011 at Boone Pickens Stadium.


One by one, Kansas University’s football players strolled off the field and up the ramp to the visitors’ locker room at Boone Pickens Stadium in Stillwater, Okla., after Saturday’s 70-28 loss at Oklahoma State.

Not one said a word, and each had the same look in his eye and limp in his step.

That typically is the result after giving up 10 touchdowns and 600 yards, and few teams know the feeling better than these Jayhawks, even if they’re not proud to admit it.

“We’re definitely hurting,” KU sophomore quarterback Jordan Webb said. “I don’t think any of us have gotten used to being on this end of these types of lopsided losses. But I think we’re still trying to learn from it and get better.”

No question. Need proof? For the fifth time this season — and third time in four weeks — the Jayhawks showed up at the Anderson Family Football Complex the day after a game with their heads held high.

“That continued,” KU coach Turner Gill said Sunday night. “They’re ready to move on to the next ballgame.”

Small problem. The next ballgame — 8:15 p.m. Saturday vs. No. 3 Oklahoma — has a chance to look an awful lot like the game KU just played. Like OSU, Oklahoma features a high-powered offense capable of scoring in a number of ways. The Sooners differ from the Cowboys in that they pair a stingy defense — ranked 28th in the nation — with their explosive offense.

It’s clear by now this team is feeling the effects of the past few games. After starting out 2-0 and momentarily putting last year’s abysmal 3-9 mark behind them, the Jayhawks have reverted to their old ways. While things got bad at times last year, they’ve reached new lows this year, particularly on defense. Already, KU has seen opponents set single-game records for rushing yards against (Georgia Tech, 604) and passing yards against (OSU, 494), and seven games against Big 12 competition still remain.

“We’re not improving as much as I would like,” Gill said. “I can safely say that.”

Despite all the lows, Gill remains undeterred by the recent setbacks.

“It’s just like anything in life,” Gill said. “Everybody has some good days and some bad days, and that’s kind of the way I look at it. I learn, and I keep on going. I have confidence in the plan that we have to try to move this program forward, and we’re gonna keep on moving forward and make some adjustments and keep coming to work and keep believing and keep having faith and go from there. But I definitely enjoy what I’m doing. That hasn’t changed. Obviously, a few hours after the game, for maybe 12 to 24 hours, you’re obviously disappointed when you have a loss, and you’re elated and happy when you win one.”

Injury update

Gill on Sunday provided an update on the status of running back Brandon Bourbon and safety Keeston Terry. Both players were injured Saturday, and Gill said both are questionable for Saturday’s game against Oklahoma, Bourbon because of a head injury and Terry because of an undisclosed injury.

“I think (Bourbon’s) just gonna be monitored for the next few days and see if anything gets better,” Gill said. “But, right now, he’s definitely probably questionable for sure.”

Jayhawks heavy underdogs

Last week, the oddsmakers set the opening line for the KU-OSU game at Oklahoma State minus 29. That line quickly jumped into the 30s and settled around 32. Sunday, the Sooners opened as 31.5-point favorites and, again, the line soared beyond 35 points by the end of the night.

The KU-OU game will be broadcast by ESPN2.


ahpersecoachingexperience 11 years, 2 months ago

OU is going to treat this game like most NFL teams treat the 4th preseason game.

baldwinjhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

I don't think Venables would touch this job. Not when he could have a job like ole miss or such. But we should definitely go after Rick Leach! Chris Peterson would be an outstanding get if he would leave boise...doubt it..

NikeCortez 11 years, 2 months ago

Rick Leach? Jayhawk football fans are so cute.

hawk316 11 years, 2 months ago

"I learn, and I keep on going. I have confidence in the plan that we have to try to move this program forward, and we’re gonna keep on moving forward and make some adjustments and keep coming to work and keep believing and keep having faith and go from there."

This is exactly the mentality a coach must have who is trying to turn around a football program in the face of humiliating losses, mounting criticism and extremely challenging competition. Will he do it? I believe he can, if given time. If he succeeds, it will be an incredible success story. If he fails, he will not have been the first to do so in Lawrence.

hawk316 11 years, 2 months ago

"For the fifth time this season — and third time in four weeks — the Jayhawks showed up at the Anderson Family Football Complex the day after a game with their heads held high."

This, in itself, is quite a significant accomplishment. To be able to keep morale up and to motivate players to keep working hard is not at all easy under such trying circumstances. That's yet another indication that this coaching staff may have what it takes to persevere and achieve eventual success.

AzNHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm glad to know that I am not the only one reading between the lines and interpreting that the ku football team will stick the course and continue on in their endeavor in the face of humiliation in order to achieve success.

Thumbs up to you Mr. Hawk316!

shelleysue 11 years, 2 months ago

I don't really think the fact that they show up after losing is that big of an accomplishment for the coaching staff. The only other alternative for the players is to quit the team and give up football and a free education.

Andy Hess 11 years, 2 months ago

I bet Stoops hangs 100 on us, or close to it. I don't see him calling off the dogs like Gundy did.

Dillon Davis 11 years, 2 months ago

Stoops is an a#$hole and he will try to set records against us.

jay381 11 years, 2 months ago

This is one of the most ill informed, misguided, ridiculous, posts I have read recently. Bob Stoops is a class act both personally and professionally. I lived in OKC for several years. Although he was not at all impressed in the way his friend and former offensive coordinator Mark Mangino was dismissed he has too much character to embarrass another program or coach. Most schools would love to have Bob Stoops represent their University.

BTW historically OU has a letdown after all the emotion of the OU-TX game and frequently plays less than their best game. If anything KU got a break in the schedule by following the TX game.

Code_2008 11 years, 2 months ago

OU called off the dogs twice and because of it, dropped 2 spots. I expect him to keep his starters in and make it a record night on both sides of the ball and teams... (I didn't say they were good records for us).

He wants that #1 spot and will run up the score if he must to get it back.

Marcia Parsons 11 years, 2 months ago

Agreed, Code. I would have said just the same thing if you hadn't beaten me to it. The last thing he wants is a poor showing against Kansas.

tecuani 11 years, 2 months ago

Its not about being an arsehole, its about first place votes. While I am no expert, strength of win factors into the computerized ranking systems. If you don't crush a very low strength opponent the system will give you less credit than a team that does.

It's not running up the score, its running up the BCS points for a game.

Stoops has a responsibility to his team and organization to put his team in the best position for a national championship berth.

If Kansas were in OUs shoes I would expect no less from our coach.

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 2 months ago

Stoops is too good a coach to do something so irresponsible. He won't risk injuries to his best players to embarass someone. And he won't be throwing the ball all over the field if he has a 50 point lead.

Matt Gauntt 11 years, 2 months ago

Hoping for rockchalk1990's scenario Fearing dmoneyball's My money is on dmoneyball's

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 2 months ago

Maybe he'll meet us in the middle and just be a "responsible a#$hole"

Kent Wells 11 years, 2 months ago

Based on our defensive scheme, I don't think OU will have to try to hard. Unless they just punt on first down and they still might score...

hailtoku 11 years, 2 months ago

Honestly, let's say Oklahoma scores 93 points on us......

How does administration respond to that. Would we not just fire Gill the moment he steps off the field?

actorman 11 years, 2 months ago

"But, right now, he’s definitely probably questionable for sure."

Well as long as that's clear.

Andy Hess 11 years, 2 months ago

Yea that sounded just a touch ambiguous to me as well.

nuleafjhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

lol - I'm more or less sure that may be pretty funny. Probably, I think.

Ron Prichard 11 years, 2 months ago

Dang it, actorman! You totally stole my thunder. I was about ready to make that same post but you beat me to it.

loyalforever 11 years, 2 months ago

omg!!!! that was the best. i was about to post on that but saw that you did... one of the most unclear statements i have heard in a long time. wonder if that's how clear he is when he talks to the team. "jordan, i want you to possibly, maybe run a play action for sure, maybe. are we 100% sort of kind of clear?" lol

kureader 11 years, 2 months ago

It has been clear since the beginning, Gill simply can't deal with a microphone or the English language. He's a fine person, and probably a good recruiter. But, repeated statements like this one make you wonder if Gill has the intellect to be a head football coach.

Kent Wells 11 years, 2 months ago

He's a lot smarter than he appears.

Signed, George Bush

hawk316 11 years, 2 months ago

The ability to communicate effectively with a microphone in one's face is not necessarily a sign of intelligence or lack thereof.

I must admit that I thought Gill's comment was funny, also. Of course, I was then reminded how many times I've committed similar verbal miscues. Fortunately, most were not on public display.

actorman 11 years, 2 months ago

Fair enough. I don't mean to impugn Gill's intelligence; I just thought it was a funny quote.

TwistedFish31 11 years, 2 months ago

Unfortunately, because of the BCS, OU will have to put up as many points as OSU did against us in order to show the poll voters they are worthy of their ranking.

OU 77-3

Kent Wells 11 years, 2 months ago

OU plays their scout team to start the second half.

ahpersecoachingexperience 11 years, 2 months ago

If you were to make our basketball team play the same exact same schedule as our football team only mcneese state's basketball team would reach a higher number of points than their football team did.

passdaball 11 years, 2 months ago

hawks hit the hardwood friday! so i'm guessing football is over in lawrence.

nuleafjhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

It seems that football has BEEN over in Lawrence for quite some time.

Cmill1221 11 years, 2 months ago

On college football live tonight they were talking about power comfrences. They said that the big12 is top to bottom one of the best leagues. Except fir Kansas which is bad enough for two teams. WOW!!

johnnyhrdwd 11 years, 2 months ago

Dennis Franchione, Terry Bowden, it's gonna be a has been or an up and comer that wants to prove himself. I don't think we can hire Leach or Leavitt although either one would make us a winner, at least competitive right off the bat. We should offer Venables 3 million, pretty sure he makes a million as a coordinator.

Brak 11 years, 2 months ago

And I bet you were the same guy calling for Mangino's job after two crappy years and now you hail him as a hero.

hawk316 11 years, 2 months ago

Brak, you make a good point in that Mangino's first two years were also pretty ugly. If some fans would have had their way at that time, we may never have won the Orange Bowl a few years later. It is for good reason that conventional wisdom calls for patience.

FightnMangino64 11 years, 2 months ago

TWO crappy years? how is going to the Tangerine Bowl in 2003 a crappy yr? Going to a bowl game in his second yr and first in a 8 yrs for the program was a good step forward.

hawk316 11 years, 2 months ago

64, Mangino's record after three years was 12-24 and didn't get above .500 (7-5) until his 4th year. But you're right, he did get invited to the Tangerine Bowl (with a 6-7 mark) after his second year. We should give credit where credit is due. My point is that it's important to give a new coaching regime time to succeed.

gardenjay 11 years, 2 months ago

Oddsmakers are so useless. If a team decides not to play the first string, then that amounts to fixing a game. As usual, gambling is unwise, but maybe it's entertainment for those who choose not to know much about what it is.

Is Brandon Bourbon really definitely probably questionable for sure not going to play this coming Saturday? Seriously sad that he has a head injury - all the best Brandon.

I believe the team will improve - and all the best boys, RCJHGKU

nuleafjhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

"After starting out 2-0 and momentarily putting last year’s abysmal 3-9 mark behind them, the Jayhawks have reverted to their old ways."

I don't think they have " reverted to their old ways " at all. The defense has stunk (stank? stinked?) since day one. We're just playing better teams now and the defense is exposed even more.

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 2 months ago

I think when they say "old ways" they are referring to the four years I was in school, as in late 1980's! For those who weren't around, getting 70 points hung on you really isn't new at all to KU football. I just hoped those days were over. I guess I was wrong!

nuleafjhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

I didn't think of it that way, but you could be right. Or, as far as KU football is concerned, " old ways " could be kind of a timeless concept. It could refer to just about any point in time. ( OK Mangino worshipers - let me have it......)

tis4tim 11 years, 2 months ago

“It’s just like anything in life,” Gill said. “Everybody has some good days and some bad days ..."

We call those bad days "Saturdays".

DocBean 11 years, 2 months ago

That's the best thing I've heard all week.

ahpersecoachingexperience 11 years, 2 months ago

Me too. New ku football slogan: ku football. it's kind of like picking a scab.

tis4tim 11 years, 2 months ago

Watching this team gives me the DT's.

actorman 11 years, 2 months ago

"I will continue to watch and follow the team, desperately looking for improvement, because that's just the kind of sadistic, twisted fan I am."

I believe you mean masochistic. Otherwise, good post.

jakzhumans 11 years, 2 months ago

“We’re not improving as much as I would like,” Gill said. “I can safely say that.”

Really? You can safely say that? You mean you're not happy with a net decrease in the team's overall quality in your two years as coach? That's not enough "improvement" for you? Gee, thanks Coach Obvious, good to know there's something we can all agree on.

I'd like to know who, exactly, started the rumor that Gill was polished and presented himself well and all that other malarkey we heard about during the last coach search. This guy is the most egregious purveyor of useless coachspeak I've ever heard. That's fine if there's ANY other evidence for us to observe to make us feel good about the state of the team, but when the team in question is the laughingstock of the league, the worst defensive football team currently playing and perhaps the worst of all time, then it would be nice if the coach should ANY kind of passion and sense of urgency. "We're not improving as much as I would like" doesn't cut it when the team isn't improving AT ALL.

BarkingHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Absolutely sums up my feelings exactly. As does AtlJaybird. HCTG is the only coach in all the years I have watched Kansas sports whose platitudes and coachspeak come off as so much scratching a blackboard. After a while, a very short while, it's just too annoying to tolerate. Plus, all it does is increase the belief that he must rely on this approach because, regrettably, he doesn't have a clue.

He can change it, it's not beyond his or anyone's ability, particularly a football coach who must have an ability to relate, in some fashion, to the public. It's just so passive, flat and uninspiring. Plus, and I don't like to say this, it's flat out dishonest. He cannot hide behind his banality and bromides to inspire any confidence or remain credible among his critics or, week by week, his rapidly depleting supporters.

Coach, give us some fire, some heart and some plain speaking. Otherwise, you can't expect the first two from us. You're getting plenty of the latter already.

voiceofreason2 11 years, 2 months ago

You guys speak the truth so clearly it's chilling. I just had a guy in my office with whom I was sharing laughs about our profound head coach, and his "explanations" for the dismal performances of his team.

After a loss like that, you tell the press, "this was an unacceptable performance". You tell them why/how you lost. The problem is Gill probably doesn't even know why or how because he's too busy looking for "improvement" in his so-called team...and believe me that would be consuming because he's gotta be looking pretty damned hard.

Take some responsibility coach! Put some rookies/2nd stringers in who maybe have a little more passion, after all, what have you got to lose?

Barkinghawk, you are absolutely right. It's just flat out dishonest. I thought we hired a nice, honest Christian man. You would expect some truth from him wouldn't you?

Mangino_Maniac 11 years, 2 months ago

"This guy is the most egregious purveyor of useless coachspeak I've ever heard."

That is awesome... and hits the nail on the head.

loyalforever 11 years, 2 months ago

very well said. couldn't agree more. this is just inexcusable!!

jayhawkinATL 11 years, 2 months ago

I'll take the Sooners to cover...easily.

LSHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Gill has got to go, he is just not the coach who KU needs to rebuild its program. As we have seen with all the conference realignment stuff KU can no longer just be a basketball school. We MUST improve our football program and it can be done, but not with Gill.

KU 11 years, 2 months ago

Turner Gill, Master Of The English Language: "But right now, he's definitely probably questionable for sure."

Dyrk Dugan 11 years, 2 months ago

Since it's now the official position of this paper to get rid of the head football coach (Keegan column on Saturday), and since this blog is now making fun of the way the man speaks (God knows how much we could make fun of you in your daily speech), it's time for some reality.

it is what is.

that's it. when you can see it coming...and it occurs...then you know there's nothing you can do about it. this game and the results, was seen 10 miles away. Oklahoma St. is GOOD folks....they are darn good. they have a 28 year old QB...with a 1st round selection at WR.

Our D is young and inexperienced and short handed throughout. if you all had the fantasy, that we could compete week in and week out in this league defensively, before the start of the season, then you are true Alice in Wonderland nutjobs.

Gill inherited no LBs....none. that were recruited to play the position. his best DT get, will never play football again. as Keegan said this week, if Gill had kept Bill Miller on staff, then we probably would have had Grissom. He's played in two games this year as a redshirt Fr. he still could have come...he would be playing a lot more...but he'll get his shot someday.

we're on our 3rd D coordinator in three years. my biggest fault with Shealy, was switching defenses before the fall. totally threw out what was in already under Torbush. Gill obviously thought it was the best move when all was said and done...but it will take time to implement. we haven't had near enough.

this young, inexperienced D is overwhelmed. it's just too much to ask. and only recruiting some stud athletes, even if it's offense and convert 'em to D is just fine. we did pretty well with Nick Reid and Banks Floodman in the day. Charles Gordon was a great corner, even though he played WR and returned kicks his freshman year. This is the kind of innovation and adjustments are necessary...but we need the athletes to fill them. and Gill hasn't had enough time yet on that front.

This coach should not, and will not be fired at the end of this season. He MUST be allowed to get his recruits in and see what he can do. i've said it on this blog, and i've said it to my family and friends before the start of the season...this team will be better this year...but the record may not improve or get worse.

am I liking getting beat in record fashion on the road vs. FBS competition? of course not. But as a KU grad and fan, it's my school and team...and this coach deserves support, and a TRUE shot to prove himself.

AzNHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

mvjayhawk and AtlJaybird -

My optimism light has become a bit dim, but I am still holding onto hope and patience that this team will turn around. Having been through some rough trials and tribulations and negativity in my personal life I turned it all around and became positive and learned the art of patience and self-improvement even though patience has little existence in this world today. Don’t think that patience was learned overnight as it took me 4 years to overcome the hardships of my personal issues and make slow incremental improvements in order to regain happiness and positivity after years of negativity and destruction not only to myself, but to others.

We may be a select few and although our words of hope, belief, and optimism may fall on deaf ears I for one will still be standing and supporting Jayhawk football. Although it may be sadistic, stupidity, and flat out ignorant of me I plead my allegiance to KU football through Wins, Losses, and total flat out embarrassing obliteration.

During the darkest and most gloomy days of my life I had little hope and self-confidence of ever turning around my behavior and correcting the path of destruction I had done to others and myself, but through great help, mentoring, support and patience I found that small glimmer of hope. Years later, it would result in newfound endeavors and experiences.

While this personal achievement may not have any correlation to football or the defensive schemes It does express the fight and perseverance. The fight to not give up and continue on in your pursuit regardless of external circumstances and persevere when EVERYONE either wants to kick you when you’re down or expects you to fail.


Jeff Coffman 11 years, 2 months ago

At least we agree on one thing: "This coach should not, and will not be fired at the end of this season."

He should be and will be fired before the end of the season!!!

Vincent Patterson 11 years, 1 month ago

After OU hangs this 100 spot on us for the entire nation to witness, that very well might happen!! LOL This is downright embarrassing!!! It's one thing to lose, but another thing to not even be competitive! Seriously though, this arse whoopin we are about to take on national TV in addition to the whoopin we will take at home the following week against KSU might just seal his fate. Here's the scary thing though, who do we get if we fire Gill? Not everyone knows this, but Gill was BGL's hire, not Lew's. So who's to say that she would let our new AD truly get HIS man? This whole thing just has ugliness all over it!!

pdt2139 11 years, 2 months ago

Really you are not improving as much as you expected? Just last week you said you were making progress on D. What a joke. Even in the bad 80’s we did not let teams set NCAA records on us. That is how bad we are. You cannot coach a division I football team by being a nice guy and not swearing in the locker-room. So the fat man was a little ruff on players but guess what you might just need that to win. I am going to say it, I miss him and his rough coaching style. This is BS!!!!

TexasJayhawk78 11 years, 2 months ago

This "coach", what coach? I think Nebraska loves him...maybe they will take him... oh wait, they love him to coach ---somewhere else.....

tical523 11 years, 2 months ago

I always avoid watching or listening to live stuff from Gill due to frustration or embarrassment, but now even reading his comments are too much to take. . . . . . . . . I really, truly wonder what the assistant coaches think about the head man.

Ron Prichard 11 years, 2 months ago

I truly wonder what the head man thinks about the assistant coaches. Long has done a very good job this year. Shealy I can't tell if the players are just horrible or the coordinator can't scheme to save his life. I tend to think a little of both, but probably more on Shealy than the players. Our returning players were supposed to be better, and we replaced others with more speed and athleticism, even though they are young. Still, we are getting burned all over the field. Why is that? Why can't we defend a wide receiver screen? Why can't we cover anyone? Why can't we stop a simple sweep? How can we be surprised at some of the simple things teams are doing to us each week? Why is the defense SO much worse than last year?

phi4life940 11 years, 2 months ago

Cut the BS, Gill. I feel like I'm seven years old again and my mom is telling me Santa Clause is real. It doesn't matter how many times you tell us, "We're getting better," it doesn't make it true.

I'm definitely probably not going to anymore games because I'm definitely probably sick of wanting to put a paper bag over my head. I guess some of the people on here though would call me a 'bad fan' because I refuse to walk into the guillotine...or should I say, Gillotine.

OU v. KU - 104 - 21 - Don't act like this is some kind of extravagant statement to get's a realistic possibility.

TwistedFish31 11 years, 2 months ago

phi - that was definitely probably funny as heII, or sad as heII...

Lance Cheney 11 years, 2 months ago

Your projected score is ridiculous and irrational. I don't know what KU team you've been watching. There's no way we score 21...

Rob Kanavy 11 years, 2 months ago

I just spit coffee into my keyboard. LOL!!!

Robert Brock 11 years, 2 months ago

OU needs to work on their running game. My guess is they keep it on the ground more than usual - they still pile up points but control the clock and their defense strangles us.

OU 59, KU 3

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 2 months ago

We controlled the clock in the OSU game, it's just they scored every 84 seconds.

smartjayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Hurting? I wonder if the pain is enough to give Bourbon more than one carry vs. OU?

Lance Cheney 11 years, 2 months ago

Agreed. One running back isn't going to make much of a difference in this game. He needs to take his time and get healed up.

smartjayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

OU's D-Line was stellar against UT. If they play like that again, it will be a very long day.

Matt Gauntt 11 years, 2 months ago

The biggest problem with all of this is recruiting. Towards the end of Mangino's tenure, according to Rivals, we had a recruiting class generally in the top 50 and generally in the top half of the Big 12. This year?.....we don't have a single four-star recruit. I know, I know, the recruiting classifications are pretty darned unreliable. Still, what great high school athlete is going to WANT to come to KU?

BCRavenJHawkfan 11 years, 2 months ago

Ah yes, the Mangino era, fond memories. So instead of a little mental abuse we have the product we now see. Not even worthy of the MVC!

MartyrMangino 11 years, 2 months ago

Tread lightly ChicagoHawkMatt.. the sacred bare cupboard is the last vestige of the Turner Gill apologists who feel like they can hope things and they will become true. I hate you people who criticize Mark Mangino. You wouldn't even be talking about KU football if it wasn't for him, don't you realize! You are right that we need to move on, but god damn, don't villify the person to have the best impact on our football program in its history!

jay381 11 years, 2 months ago


Yes and those memories include brining a program from the depths of despair after Allen to an Orange Bowl win. Until the problems in 2009 we saw improvement in the team. Perhaps Mangino did not leave a fully stocked team of recruits however; it was still a lot better than the nothing he inherited from Allen. During Mangino enthusiasm was sufficient to make the greatest improvements in facilities in my memory of the football program. Gill did inherit better players than Mangino, better facilities than Mangino, and at least a winning program within a recruit’s memory. I went back and looked at the disappointing 2009 season. Would anyone not take a 7 point game with KSU, a 2 point game with MU (and I know I really thought until that final interception KU was going to come back and win that game in the final minute), or a 4 point game to CU? We were blown out by an undefeated TX that went on to lose the national championship to AL.

Now we have far better facilities, only memories of good football, and a coach that seems at least to me living in another universe. I frankly am tired of the excuse makers that try to blame the total ineptness of this bunch of coaches on their predecessor. Gill hired these assistants. Gill and his group ran off a conditioning coach that is now conditioning athletes again for Snyder. Gill made these decisions to “be nice”. Gill made the decisions to remove any of the good points of the Mangino era.

Nothing personal but I have seen all I need to see of what Gill has done to the program.

LSHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

I just looked at K-States commits for next year and it looks no better than KU's BUT they have a great Head Coach, and that's the difference. Gill has got to go.

jrbill67 11 years, 2 months ago

Now that the Big 12's future is essentially assured for 6 years, it's time to cut your losses and hire an experienced coach that can hire the right people, impress a few recruits, and turn this program around. People like June Jones SMU & Tommy Tuberville Texas Tech are good examples. Gill's a great person, but a lousy head coach.

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 2 months ago

The follow-up article will be "Jayhawk Fans 'Hurting' After Loss to OSU" I have been on these boards as a consistent supporter of HCTG and still believe there are good reasons to give him more time to turn this around. HOWEVER, I have now been moved to the opinion that while I am a patient person, it would be awfully hard to find fault with the AD if he chose to go in a different direction. This team's defense is just a complete train wreck! As somebody earlier pointed out, it's been bad all year, it's just been more obvious now that the competition is better. Bob Valesente only got a couple years, and this defense is every bit as bad as his defenses, and this defense sure seems to have more talent. I just don't understand how the defense can be this bad! I'm still behind this team 100%, but something better change or the next seven weeks are going to be pretty painful...

shelleysue 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm guessing OU's 2nd string will be in the game midway through the 1st quarter. Normally I am 100% supportive of everything KU. But this coaching staff has given me pretty much nothing to be supportive of. Not the DC, HC. Heck not even the trainer. The OC - that's the only coach who seems to be doing his job.

jay381 11 years, 2 months ago

I was living in OKC when Long was the OC. He replaced Mangino on Stoops staff and most felt disappointed in a few years. He is a classy guy and a great individual however his play calling well “not so much”. Mangino was a far superior OC at OU and the offense did not really get better until Long was gone and replaced by Kevin Wilson. Actually I think Heupel may even be better. I guess we will see him this weekend. Long term Chuck Long is not the answer in my opinion based on what I saw while living in OK. However I do agree with you he is by far the only one that even appears to be competent on this staff.

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 2 months ago

Chuck "Third and" Long was what OU referred to him as.

Although I would agree he is doing a better job with the offense than last year.

I think he would be a suitable interim head coach for the remaining bit of the year.

jay381 11 years, 2 months ago

Actually, I agree. I was only referencing long term. Look at the disaster he had at SD State. I do remember the third and long and also the Chuck Chuck his last year at OU.

DocBean 11 years, 2 months ago

It's time for Turner Gill to go. I don't care if he recruits the top class in the country every year, if he can't get anything out of them, he's not going to be a successful coach.

I've never seen a defense that's this bad. EVER.

shelleysue 11 years, 2 months ago

Also - If ticket prices next year don't go down significantly to be in line with the state of the program, that will truly be ridiculous.

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 2 months ago

I thought they were giving them away for free...Are you suggesting the payment of funds to actually have fans come?

shelleysue 11 years, 2 months ago

They are only free to students. But maybe you have something there. It's hard to spend another $100+ per game traveling when you are 99.9% certain, short of a miracle that the game isn't going to be any fun.

danmoore 11 years, 2 months ago

Gill can recruit and he has the respect and loyalty of his players. But he is racking up a lengthy list of lopsided defeats which begs the question, can he coach. The lack of talent, through no fault of his own can excuse a team for losing but I have a hard time reconciling 70 points. If there is a silver lining, he has assembled a very promising offense.

KCHawk81 11 years, 2 months ago

I've defended this staff for almost two years now. Too much criticism, I felt, was leveled before Turner Gill ever set foot in Lawrence, too much of it was racially driven, too much of it was reactionary and impatient, too much of it was motivated by misguided allegiance to our former coach, and too much of it came from "fans" who know an awful lot about basketball and next to nothing about football. More than anything, I think that it's as important for the students, alumni, and fans to buy into a program as it is for the players to do the same. Like it or not, our opinions, collectively, carry some weight, and I wanted mine to be a positive one, often against my better judgment or that nagging voice of reality begging to be heard.

But I don't think I can do it any longer. Coaching transitions are tough, and I've preached patience. But turning THIS defense around would be a more impressive transition than turning last year's team into a winner. There is no dearth of talent that can excuse our performance this year. It's unacceptable. It's time to admit I was wrong. I was wrong.

All that being said, I still think Turner Gill gets at least one more year, maybe more (barring a rather massive private fundraising effort...). And he deserves it as much as any football coach deserves the opportunity to implement his system and (try to) get his players. Our defensive coordinator has to be fired, though. Even if he is 100% blameless for what has happened this year (and he's not), he cannot keep his job after the last five games. On the offensive side, we've seen some real player development. But we've continued to see poor play-calling and poorer game management. The coaching staff needs to go through some major changes, none of which could possibly set us back any further than we already are. It won't come at the top this year, but it had better come everywhere else.

I'm not a very happy fan today. I'm angry and I want my team to be angry. Not "hurt," not "searching for answers." Effing angry. I go every Saturday, and I wouldn't do that if I didn't expect us to win every game. I'll be there this week, counting on a bunch of college kids to prove me right.

DocBean 11 years, 2 months ago

Will Vegas even offer bets on the OU/KU game? I mean how could anyone ever pick KU with any amount of points offered?

If anyone is taking bets on this game, please point me to them.

DocBean 11 years, 2 months ago

Show of hands: Who thinks Turner Gill is a good coach? Who thinks he can succeed at this level? Who thinks we can get another win this season? Who thinks Turner Gill can get Kansas to a National Championship?

...put your hand down liar.

lawyermog 11 years, 2 months ago

Our basketball team won't give up this many points to OSU...It's embarassment after embarassment after emabaassment. Mentions this weekend on ESPN: Herbstreit "Are they still playing Football in Kansas since Mangino left...what a train wreck"; Holtz: Biggest disappointments in the country, #2 - Kansas. We are a punchline once again. And please don't forget, the kids that Gill got from Mangino were part of the two highest rated recruiting classes ever at KU. I'm just so angry.

lawyermog 11 years, 2 months ago

I forgot, the Herbstreit comment was BEFORE the game!!!

nuleafjhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

We're # 2 in the country ?? Whooooooooooo hooooooooooooo!!

Oh - wait. Now I get it.

OK - who could possibly be a bigger disappointment than KU in football?

55jayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Gil had a lot of holes to fix and offense obviously was the most important and that shows. Defense is a hard "Fix" and will take a couple of years to make respectful. I think the young players who are on defense now are getting better with each week but the competition is getting better also. You take the young kids we have now and get 4-5 lineman that are big and fast whether from the JUCO ranks or not this coming year, & we will not be all that bad next year. Strength and conditioning bother me somwhat but when you are getting beat on every play there is a physical and mental thrashing that finally shows it ugly face like the Tech game. To ask for Gil's job now will not be good because any other good coach would not come to KU if he thought he only had a year or two to turn the program around. I will give him season 2 but next year will have to show more improvement.

bradynsdad 11 years, 2 months ago

7-0 outstanding, I have a feeling this week is gonna be different. 7-7 no worries. Let's take it to them again. 7-14 were ok. Still in, just relax and maintain. 7-21 this is your time defense give the offense a chance to catch up. 7-28 ok let's try to stop the bleeding and make it to half time here. 7-35 hmmm. 7-42 let's see what else is on. 7-holy crap is this a basketball score 7-maybe we get tressel as the HC. I will take a few free tattoos over free weekly spankings. Come on turner I want to believe.

nuleafjhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Is " 7-maybe we get tressel as the HC" still in the first quarter ??

Red Demon 11 years, 2 months ago

Couldn't agree more, bradynsdad. I was beyond excited after we scored that first touchdown and Toben followed that up with a sack on Ok State's first possession. And then it went downhill. Further and further. I was listening to the game on the radio while doing yard work, and switched it to pandora so I wouldn't take up binge drinking as a new midday hobby.

LSHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Gill needs to go and we go after Brent Venables. If Boise State and Oklahoma State can build good football programs Kansas should be able to also.

jay381 11 years, 2 months ago

I absolutely have all the respect in the world for Brent V. I watched his teams first hand while living in OKC. However, frankly it would take a reversal in attitude from the administration or he would face the same fate his friend Mark Mangino faced. Have you ever seen Brent V get in the face of a player that misses an assignment or his total enthusiasm on the sideline? Obviously he has the total support of his current AD and President. Oh, by the way he has one hell of a defense year after year at OU. I just cannot see the administration supporting him and after Mangino he would obviously be well aware what happened. I also understand he loves Norman, his job, makes a great salary (with another increase just received) and can afford to be very selective about making any change. Gee, he would actually be worth the ridiculous amount paid to Gill. I am confident he makes more as a DC at OU than Gill made as a HC at Buffalo.

ja3hawk 11 years, 2 months ago

The deal is that, you can't be a nice coach with par and sub-par recruits. In order to make the kind of kids we get any good, you have to be a tough coach and MAKE them understand what they did wrong on a particular play. The unfortunate thing is that our admin was more concerned with hiring a nice coach to recover from a negative image. Well, now our negative image is KU Football is a joke...

gchawk 11 years, 2 months ago

As I see it, a huge problem for us is confidence. As Jordan Webb stated, none of these guys are use to these kinds of lopsided losses. All of our players were accustomed to success in high school, so this is definitely unchartered territory for them. Nobody can convince me that the other schools have players on their team which are THAT much better than our athletes, they may be better players, but in D1 ball they just can't be that much better. So, that tells me that the problem lies within our coaching. I'm certainly not insinuating that we have a chance with OU, but our basketball team has, unfortunately, been on the receiving end of some huge upsets by teams that didn't have, again in my minds eye, as good of athletes as us, but the other teams coaches had those players believing they could win, and guess what, they did. Coach, time to become a master psychologist and strategist.

rxjayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

If Turner isn't the coach to build our program, who is? Does anyone have another coach in mind that would actually be willing to come here?

lawyermog 11 years, 2 months ago

Mike Leach is my choice. It would be hard for him to leave Key West for Kansas, but he says he wants back in coaching. Same recruiting area and a chance to stick it to Texas Tech, since he lost his appeal of the lawsuit.

jay381 11 years, 2 months ago

I agree with the abilities of Mike L. However, with that said can you really see him working with the current administration? Leach is one strange guy. Some of the stories about him the one year he was on Stoop’s staff were absolutely hilarious. He is a good coach, graduates players, and has a good team, but just a little on the strange side. I would say I would pay to see his first press conference; For sure no one would have any idea what he might say.

We would win games and restore the program to respectability, but work with his administration, I just cannot see it.

Lance Cheney 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm as big of a KU (football, not just b-ball fairweather) fan as anybody, but I got 50 bucks on OU covering the spread. I might as well get some enjoyment out of this game. Don't let me down! (I'm not looking forward to the malicious replies I may receive from this)

BigBlue4KU 11 years, 2 months ago

And this is better than Mangino . . . . . who actually believes that now? I guess when Kansas figures out that football isn't 'paddy cakes' (Valecente/Allen/now Gill), maybe we can hire a FOOTBALL coach. I felt so bad for those poor kids Mangino yelled at. But then again, he had football teams that didn't embarass us to death. I'll bet Stoops is going around asking each one of his team members how they 'feel' and if he can do anything to make life better. Weren't we all surprised when Notre Dame kept its coach after he yelled at his players (using naughty words, too) on national TV. We are so proud to be a non denominational University that doesn't allow naughty language from our football coach. I think probably Phog, Hart, Owens, Brown, Williams and even Self don't even know a naughty word. But, then again, they coach basketball and that isn't a 'tough' sport. I know Urban Meyer used to be such a 'swell' guy. I hear that Paterno is a real sweatheart too. Oh well, maybe Goldie Locks will be available for us soon. I can't remember three consecutive games that were more embarassing . . . oh, I forgot for a moment the Valecente years (when entire years went that way), and yeah, Allen did have several embarassments EVERY year (and as a matter of fact, they probably lasted more than three games at a time). But woe be to the potty mouthed football coach in Kansas. We sure wouldn't want those boys to hear naughty words. They have such virgin ears. WE WOULD RATHER LOSE EVERY GAME THAN HAVE A COACH WHO SWEARS AT PLAYERS!

newjayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

They both had concussions and neither could remmember what happened. Terry got hit so hard that he could barely line up for the PAT . Bourbon didn't know which sideline to go to. OSU laid the wood on us pretty badly.

danmoore 11 years, 2 months ago

If fans dictated coaching changes we would have fired Bill Self years ago.

If in his third season we are not seeing real improvement I'll jump ship but for now I'm in Coach Gill's corner.

texashawk10 11 years, 2 months ago

I can also guarantee that Mangino never makes to 2007 with that same mentality.

Ethan Berger 11 years, 2 months ago

Hey I guys im calling it right now.


After the game, we will all be upset.

gchawk 11 years, 2 months ago

The depth of your post can't be measured.

troutsee 11 years, 2 months ago










Tony Bandle 11 years, 2 months ago

Let's break 100, Oklahoma would have to score 15 touchdowns with 15 PAT's

Four 15 minute quarters divided by 30 possessions [15 apiece] equals 2 minutes per possession.

If the offense can average 25 seconds off the play clock, run on the first three downs and use up another 15 seconds each, that's 145 seconds or 1 3/4 minute per possession.

If the defense can hold Oklahoma to three first downs per drive before they score......

Yes!! We can hold Oklahoma to under 100 points!!!!

nuleafjhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Very nice breakdown Oakville.

But don't bet on it.

Randy Bombardier 11 years, 2 months ago

We win the toss, we receive. We run the ball four times. Forget the punt. It is a wast of time and field position won't slow OU down. The 40 seconds is more meaningful than giving them the ball on the 30. Four running plays to get 10 yards. 12:00 1rst qtr. OU gets the ball and scores. 11:00. KU receives and runs four more plays, 8:00. OU gets ball and scores, 7:00. KU receives and runs four plays, 4:00. OU gets ball and scores, 3:00. KU receives, runs four plays and runs out the clock for the first qtr. At this point KU is only down 21-0. So, under this scenario, how in the heck does OSU get 35??? Total incompetence, that's how. With this strategy we can keep OU to less than 100. And actually we would probably get a few first downs along the way and could keep them to 50. Rotate the whole team into the game. Everyone not wearing a redshirt plays. Slug it out.

On defense, we get some walk-ons to shore up our the coaching ranks. Walk-on D coordinator anyone?

Gary Wirsig 11 years, 2 months ago

Don't ignore the possibility of a fumble on a running play, costing us valuable minutes (depending on the down)...

Kirk 11 years, 2 months ago

Did you read Whitlock's column on Gill after KU hired him? I wish he'd written the article BEFORE then.

As a former Ball St player, Whitlock keeps up with the MAC. He'd seen Gill's Buffalo teams on numerous occasions had nothing nice to say about his coaching. Someone once posted the text on the football forum, which is possibly the only place you'll find it....

dtownhawkfan 11 years, 2 months ago

I was at the game in Stillwater this past weekend....sorry maybe it was a scrimmage. It got so ugly so quick that the kind OSU fan kept apologizing to me as OSU kept scoring, and scoring, and scoring, and scoring, and scoring, put in the backups and scored some more. (On a side note - kind folks down there) Anyway, there is no way Bourbon plays this weekend or for awhile. He tried going to the OSU sideline and a couple of their players had to point him back to our bench. Initially I didn't think the hit was that bad, but he didn't have a clue where he was at. I hope he will be ok soon, but seeing him right after it happened I don't think he will play for awhile.

ja3hawk 11 years, 2 months ago

We lack an intensity that comes from coaching. This is something that programs like KU must have in order to win games. HCTG does not have what it takes to make our guys play with intensity. Instead, he gives out chocolates and extends the curfew to talk to their girlfriends... I'm tired of being the laughing stock in college football. It's bad for the university in general.

Doug Fogleman 11 years, 2 months ago

I thought Mangino was laughing last year. He is on the floor crying with laughter now.

Please bounce back Hawks. At least beat the Cats.

nuleafjhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

At this point, I just wish Gill (Ha - a few weeks ago, I was calling him Coach Gill) would show a little emotion. Anything.

Tears. Fear. Tears for Fears. Anger. Anything.

And quit using the samed canned speech after every butt-whoopin. Don't tell us how much improvement we've made. Don't tell us how things are getting better. Tell the truth.

Say "We suck and I don't know what to do about it".

Say "Pray for us, because only God can help this defense". (I'm not saying that to be offensive - I mean it.

Say "Does anyone know of a good real estate agent and moving company?"

Say "I'll give up half of my own salary for a Defensive Coordinator that can come up with a plan to hold OU under 80 pts."

nuleafjhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Here's kind of a sick thought.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that OU could put up 500 yards rushing, 500 yards passing and 100 points.

They may not - but they could.

jcw3691 11 years, 2 months ago

Mark Mangino to be hired as Bill Snyder's coach-in-waiting

Randy Bombardier 11 years, 2 months ago

I don't see that coming. Perhaps Gary Patterson or Venables, if we can't get Venables first.

danmoore 11 years, 2 months ago

Why didn't KSU offer the job when Snyder retired?

jay381 11 years, 2 months ago

I can tell you a lot of people in Oklahoma wondered the same thing. He got about as much of a look as anyone but Gill got from our administration. KSU thought they had a savior in Prince and did not look at anyone else as I understand. Their mistake.

danmoore 11 years, 2 months ago

They won't make that mistake again. Don't know if they can lure Patterson away from TCU but unless Venables is in line for a high profile program he would seem like Snyder's successor.

KSU could be a good team for some time and Pinkel has been landing good players year after year. Our rivals are improving and we seem to be getting worse. Sad. I'm no longer content with just being a good basketball program.

basty 11 years, 2 months ago

Maybe I'm alone on this, but at this point I think seeing a team score 100 would be a pretty cool feat to watch. It's unlikely that we will be forever terrible so we might as well have something really historically bad to point back to and laugh at. Future basty will say, "haha remember that time OU dropped a Ben Franklin on us? Classic." If it's gotta be bad it might as well be epic.

lv_jhwk 11 years, 2 months ago

Mike Stoops now available as defensive coordinator...IMMEDIATELY!!

Pitthawk34 11 years, 2 months ago

Gill and Mike Stoops...Never would happen. Stoops would reject the idea of tea parties with the players.

Randy Bombardier 11 years, 2 months ago

That would actually be a good move if he would take the job.

JayDocMD 11 years, 2 months ago

(posted on another link but reposted here)

So Mike Stoops was just fired as Arizona HC. This has spawned my latest pipe dream, and I think you know where I'm going with this... line him up for DC. Sure, there are plenty of reasons why he won't do it - but I don't want to hear it. Let's get it done.

Side note: It looks like disgruntled AZ fans have already infiltrated Wikipedia. Here's the latest update (sure to be soon removed) - check out the next to last sentence:

"2011 season The Wildcats started the 2011 season losing 5 of their six games, and their first four games in the newly-expanded Pac-12 Conference. After a loss on the road to previously-winless Oregon State, Stoops was relieved of his duties on Oct 10, 2011. Tim Kish was named as interim head coach. Stoops has elected to remain in the employ of the University as head of custodial services and toilet cleaning, as well as glory hole closing. He will receive a $45 million dollar buyout."

jay381 11 years, 2 months ago

A little correction. The Daily Oklahoman reported the buyout to be in the range of $1.4 million. Since he was formerly an OU assistant and his brother is the current head coach those guys have pretty good sources into the AZ program. It looks like AZ had a lot more realistic buyout than the absurd gift that was without any prior success given to Gill. I know the AD was Lew but why in the heck would any competent administrator sign off on the ridiculous contract of an unproved Gill. That sign off has to be on Bernadette.

JayDocMD 11 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, the buyout amount is the only inaccuracy. Pretty sure that was part of the joke along with his ongoing employment as janitor (among other things.)

Vincent Patterson 11 years, 1 month ago

Long live Mangino the Hut!!!!! We miss you man!!!

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