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Realignment Review: Where do we go from here?

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4:42 p.m. Update:

Just in under the three hour mark since my last post... Phew!!! Just a sign of how quiet things are today.

One bit of news that just popped up is from A&M country, where Chuck Carlton, of the Dallas Morning News, reported, via Twitter, that an A&M source said the school remained focused on moving to the SEC... Period.

"This gridlock has not changed our intentions," the source said.

I doubt that comes as much of a surprise to any of you, but it is interesting to remember that because if/when the Aggies go to the SEC, that makes 13 teams there. They'll still need a 14th.

That could be done quietly and without disrupting the national landscape, though I'm not sure how, or it could be the move that sets this whole thing off.

What a shame it would be for the Big 12 to fight so hard to survive only to see things blow up anyway. At that point, the conference would have some serious decisions/choices to make. My guess is they'd lean toward rapid expansion however possible.

TCU? Maybe. BYU? Definitely. Air Force? Possibly. Depends on how many and how far they'd have to go.

Like I've said all along, things are looking better and better for the Big 12 — or whatever it may soon be called — by the minute, but there's still a lonnnnnngggggg way to go before all this is settled.

Stay tuned...

1:43 p.m. Update:

All right... Not a lot new since I left you (thank goodness) but the people I'm talking to continue to say that the break in the action sponsored by Baylor has given the rest of the league a chance to catch its breath and really think this thing through. The more they've done that, the more they've realized that keeping the Big 12 alive is the way to go.

By now, it's pretty obvious where we stand....

All In: Texas, KU, KSU, Baylor, Iowa State and Missouri (yes, I'm told MU is 100% on board). Big 12 Lean: Oklahoma State On the Fence: Oklahoma Out: Texas A&M

So now the next several days (hopefully fewer) will be spent tracking OU's every move. Maybe this is what OU president David Boren wanted all along. Maybe he just wanted OU to be loved. Or maybe he wanted to make a move so bold and drastic that it would force Texas to play ball and make some concessions. If that was his plan all along, my hat's off to him for making it work. I still think there may have been a different way to go about it, but, then again, there may not have been.

Boren is a politician first and foremost. And we all know how politicians love the limelight. With all the attention on him and Oklahoma, I'd expect him to milk that for a few more days and maybe come to some kind of a decision early next week.

The Big 12 Board of Directors is scheduled to meet next Thursday but wouldn't it be nice if Boren made that meeting unnecessary? Or at least not as critical.

I'll stay on it and keep talking to people, especially those in the Sooner state, but for now that's what the whole thing boils down to. Regardless of what you read about who's talking to whom or what schools are meeting with what leagues, we're all waiting on the Sooners here. And I'm sure they're loving it.

Stay tuned...

In the meantime, here's a link I came across today from Tommy Hicks, of The Birmingham News. Hicks says the NCAA should take a do-over and host the first ever intercollegiate conference draft. It's a longshot and a wild idea, but it's an entertaining read.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/09/ncaa_should_restart_conference.html

11:07 a.m. Update:

I've gotta run out and take care of a few things for the next couple of hours — phone calls and meetings regarding the Big 12 among them — so sit tight for a while and I'll update the blog when I get back.

If you guys see any good links while I'm away, toss 'em into the comments below and have at it. I'll jump back in when I return.

Stay tuned...

11:02 a.m. Update:

Some interesting stuff from the Rivals site, RedRaiderSports.com, that seems to support the notion that the Big 12 will live. It's a pay site, so I'll bullet point the highlights here, but if you want to subscribe and read it all, here's the link: http://www.texastech.rivals.com/

Again, this is all according to RedRaiderSports.com:

• TV networks are saying deals will not change much if the league stays at nine. There may be some change but not enough to make the league feel like it has to go to 10 or 12 teams.

• Texas will agree to equal revenue sharing on first and second tier games.

• The Big 12's next scheduled meeting is set for next Thursday, most likely in person, and the ADs will continue to meet via conference calls and individual connections.

And here's the most interesting point...

• If OU decides to commit to the Big 12 there is some talk that the Big 12 as we know it could fold and come back under a new name. That would include new headquarters and new leadership.

• As has been the case for the past several days, it's OU's move.

Stay tuned...

10:09 a.m. Update:

Well, here it is, a little after 10 a.m. two days after the most dramatic Wednesday in the history of the Big 12 Conference, and things remain quiet.

Instead of scramble mode, in which media members and athletic departments are swimming upstream to keep up with the flurry of rumors and activity going on around the Big 12 and the rest of the country, everyone seems to have slipped into recovery mode.

A lot of the articles out there today have a pro-Big 12 slant and, even stuff coming out of Oklahoma, seems to suggest that the next step in all of this might very well be the announcement of a stronger Big 12.

Wednesday's activity, which included but was not limited to Baylor's bold move to block Texas A&M's departure to the SEC, refocused everyone in the conference and may go down as the move that saved the Big 12. Sources have said that the move brought the remaining Big 12 schools closer together and provided some serious solidarity in the league.

That's a step. And it's a good step if you're a Big 12 fan. But the final touches must still be tacked on and a resolution here could come as soon as this weekend or may still be two weeks away.

In case you missed it, mega-rich Oklahoma State alum T. Boone Pickens spoke to the ESPN broadcasting crew during the Cowboys' victory over Arizona on Thursday night and his stance seemed very pro-Big 12. He said he'd like the conference to survive, he wants the Cowboys to stay in it but that in order for either to happen, the league must come up with some sort of plan for equal revenue sharing, a model pretty common to the rest of the major conferences out there.

Having a guy like Pickens speak out in this matter is pretty telling. He has a ton of influence at Okie State and is as devoted to the well-being of that university as a man like Don Fambrough was to Kansas.

My gut tells me here that we may get an announcement soon that says the Big 12 lives, but the work regarding revenue sharing and a multitude of other issues facing the conference right now — including expansion — will be ongoing and will remain that way months down the road.

Many of you have asked about the status of the Big 12's automatic BCS if A&M and potentially others leave the conference.

Kirk Bohls of the Austin American-Statesman got in touch with BCS executive director Bill Hancock and asked that very question. The answer? The BCS has never discussed whether a conference must have a minimum number of teams to qualify for BCS participation.

Here's the link: http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/bohls/entries/2011/09/07/smaller_big_12.html?cxntfid=blogs_bohl_games

Speaking of Bohls, he also has a story in today's paper that emphasizes — yet again — that the Longhorns have no desire to become an independent.

http://www.statesman.com/sports/longhorns/ut-independence-fraught-with-peril-1830666.html

It's early and I realize we still have a long way to go, but just looking out across the media landscape of the Big 12 seems to indicate that most are now on board with the fact that the odds favor the Big 12 surviving.

Even the Oklahoma schools, as this Oklahoman story regarding OSU says.

http://newsok.com/osu-is-focused-on-remaining-in-big-12/article/3602530?custom_click=lead_story_title

One more for now, this one also comes from Austin, but it's from the A&M side of things. American-Statesman beat writer, Susan Halliburton, who covers the Aggies, hosted an online chat the other day to discuss A&M and the Big 12.

It's interesting to get her perspective since most of her time has spent covering an absolution. The Aggies are leaving. It's just a matter of when and how.

Here are the highlights of her chat.

http://www.statesman.com/sports/aggies/selected-highlights-from-halliburtons-aggies-big-12-chat-1830382.html

Stay tuned...

Comments

Michael Maris 10 years, 11 months ago

''Added KU linebacker Steven Johnson: “It’s going to be a fight, because NIU is a really respected team. I’m pretty sure they could be a team that could play in the Big 12. Even though they’re in a small conference, they pack a lot of power.”

So, if Steven Johnson thinks that NIU is good enough to be in the Big XII (football wise). Then, extend them an offer to join. You gain access to Chicagoland TV sets. NIU is about 1.5 drive from downtown Chicago. And, even closer to the western Chicagoland suburbs. Iowa State would have a new rival to compete with (as well).

I personally know a few NIU Graduates, and they say that NIU has plenty of room to add the needed seating to their stadium facilities.

LogicMan 10 years, 11 months ago

I think it would go over like a lead balloon for the reactionary general public, so someone high up (Bebee?) should do this quietly behind the scenes if interested:

How about asking Northern Illinois and Illinois State University to consider a merger under the ISU name? Then admit ISU to the Big XII.

Similarly, New Mexico and New Mexico State?

As part of the deal, FB could be played on one campus, and BB on the other of each of the paired campuses. NCAA rules allow this?

Michael Maris 10 years, 11 months ago

ISU is not an FBS team. They are FCS, NIU doesn't need ISU.

NIU is allowed to join the Big XII, alot of Chicagoland kids will automatically goto NIU to play basketball. Cause, NIU would then be in BCS League. More exposure on National TV.

LogicMan 10 years, 11 months ago

Well ... NIU just isn't big enough for us. And any school with north, south, east, west, or named after a city, just doesn't sound big-time enough. Appearances matter, in this case via their names.

So under one name (ISU): FB at the current NIU campus, and BB at the current ISU, if allowed by the NCAA?

But it sound as if we may be going back to the Big 8. Baylor and Iowa State should be very nervous. Iowa State needs to quickly talk with Northern Iowa about the above idea to make themselves more attractive, again if allowed by the NCAA to host the sports on different campuses of the same university. Any existing schools already doing this?

Michael Maris 10 years, 11 months ago

I understand your thougts.

But, I believe the suggestion that you NIU and ISU combine (as well as ISU and UNI do the same) would create more of a pissing match than what is currently happening in the Big XII Conference. And it would take to long for these types of scenarios to happen.

So, adding NIU and the Chicagoland Home viewership is a alot faster resolution (than what you are proposing.

Alex Berger 10 years, 11 months ago

I agree with your first point but if NIU is in the Big XII then they would gobble up the good Chicago ballers? Did the Morris twins go to Pitt? Did Taylor go to Rutgers? Did Thomas Robinson go to Maryland?

It's Kansas basketball man. They come here to win.

Steve Gantz 10 years, 11 months ago

NIU doesn't have a Chicago following. Sure if they get hot a few more folks will pay attention. And basketball wise they've never been close to fielding a competitive team. If the Big12 is inviting teams like NIU then we're in BIG trouble.

TtownHawk 10 years, 11 months ago

You're crazy man, you're crazy. I like you but you're crazy

Mike Barnhart 10 years, 11 months ago

So bewildering. The Big 12 just keeps pummeling other BCS teams on the field and they have the most profitable network deals in America. But this seemingly perfect family is about as dysfunctional as Charlie Sheens "Sober Valley Ranch"!

Thanks a hell of a lot Mizzou for starting all this crap!!!

Steve Gantz 10 years, 11 months ago

Colorado started it right? Really the PAC 12 started it.

Kman_blue 10 years, 11 months ago

Mizzery started it all right after this story broke: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4745381 in Dec. 2009. That's when Mizzery began publicly campaigning to join the Big 10 and that's what spurred Colorado, Nebraska, and others to begin questioning the stability of the Big 12 and started looking elsewhere. This was also a good excuse for some schools to publicly air some of their grievances with the Big 12 as well, which further put the Big 12 into turmoil.

So here you have it.

Dec. 2009: Big ten announces expansion study of the next 12 to 18 months. Dec. 2009 - Jan. 2010: Mizzery starts making public statements about their preference to join the Big ten and some Mizzery officials even actively begin publicly campaigning for joining the Big ten in the media. Feb. - April 2010: Big 12 schools start questioning stability of the conference and start scrambling to cover themselves if Mizzery leaves and spurs the demise of the Big 12 May - June 2010: The scrambling reaches a fever pitch with Mizzery getting publicly shunned by the Big ten and Colorado and Nebraska bolt.

So, yeah Mizzery got this thing going full tilt and who knows how it would of played out if Mizzery was "100%" committed in 2009 and early 2010 before they got turned away by the Big 10. I'd bet there'd still be 12 schools in the Big 12, but there would of still been a bunch of turmoil this year and any schools that were gonna leave would of done it this year, but maybe only 1 or 2 would of left instead of the 3 or more that left or are leaving now. That's just my guess though.

Michael Maris 10 years, 11 months ago

When Texas starts screaming and hollering about Academic Standards, then we find out exactly how much Texas is about expansion and letting the league grow. If it NCAA Football is about TV sets (and not academics), then this will show how much Texas is really about saving the Big XII and keeping their TLN as well.

Big XII gains access to 7,000,000 households in Northern Illinois and Southern Wisconsin (since Milwaukee kids go to NIU (as well).

Big 10 invaded into Big XII territory, Big XII needs to do the same and invade into Big 10 Territory.

Alex Berger 10 years, 11 months ago

NIU does not have the fanbase of the big state schools. I live in Illinois and the Illini are really the only ones with sports fans. NIU would be like the Big XII picking up UTSA down in Texas.

Targets: 1) Notre Dame (aim big) 2) BYU (reasonable and has a national fanbase)

Michael Maris 10 years, 11 months ago

Sorry, but Notre Dame is NOT going to come to the Big XII. If there is any conference that Notre Dame is going to actually join (football wise), it is the B1G (as you should well know).

Adding NIU would be the Big XII invading the B1G TV Territory (just like the B1G adding Nebraska from the Big XII TV Territory.

I'm sure that NIU fans would just love to know that you compared NIU to UT-San Antonio. Once again, does UT-San Antonio compete at the FBS level? No, they don't.

Illinois fans would NOT like NIU going to the Big XII, cause they would lose the prestige of being the only Illinois school playing at the FBS level. Missouri doesn't have to worry about that issue. Missouri State and SE Missouri State are both at the FCS level and they won't be going to FBS level.

Illinois would lose out on getting the 3 star players that Illinois would expect to walk on (instead of offering them scholarships). Illinois won't be able to control NIU going to the Big XII (either). Unless, they started some type of power playing that involved getting Political powers in the state fighting against each other.

God forbid that NIU actually become a better football program than U of I - Champaign-Urbana. U of I - Champaign-Urbana alumni and fan base would NOT be able to stand the fact that NIU actually would become a better football school then their own beloved Fighting Illini.

Illinois fans would actually have to share the TV airwaves in Chicagoland with the Huskie fan base. Hmmmmmmmm, 7,000,000 possible households wanting to watch what the Huskies might actually do at the Top Tier level.

Al Martin 10 years, 11 months ago

This doesn't really take away from your point, but Northwestern IS in Illinois, you know.

Michael Maris 10 years, 11 months ago

Yeah, Northwestern is in the B1G (as well).

Just that U of I - Champaign-Urbana is a State school relying on Government assistance. And, Northwestern is a private university that depends on NO tax payer money (unless it come through government research grants).

I'm sure that Northwestern doesn't want NIU to grow their athletic department either. But, I'm betting that Northwestern accepts less students that end up at NIU, than U of I - Champaign-Urbana does.

DallasJayhawk1 10 years, 11 months ago

11:07 Update: all quiet on the Western Front. Interesting info on the RedRaiderSports website about possible changes--if true.

Bville Hawk 10 years, 11 months ago

• Texas will agree to equal revenue sharing on first and second tier games.

• If OU decides to commit to the Big 12 there is some talk that the Big 12 as we know it could fold and come back under a new name. That would include new headquarters and new leadership.

Now that's interesting stuff. I assume that OU would also be agreeing to equal revenue sharing on Tier 1 and 2 games. I could see this working out after all...

Graczyk 10 years, 11 months ago

What is a Tier 1 and Tier 2 game? I assume as well that there is a Tier 3? Is that an out of conference cupcake?

rob4lb 10 years, 11 months ago

Tier 1 games are the prime games and the Big 12 has an agreement with ESPN to broadcast those games. Tier 2 would be any other football and basketball game and FOX just signed a huge deal with the Big 12 for those rights. It includes more games. Tier 3 would be anything not include in Tier 1 and 2 which are primarily the rights to the non-revenue generating sports. I think the contract with Fox the right to include one non-conference football game into it's Tier 3 package. KU broadcast the McNeese State game over the internet last week. The Longhorn Network essential UT's Tier 3 channel.

rob4lb 10 years, 11 months ago

Tier 1 games are the prime games and the Big 12 has an agreement with ESPN to broadcast those games. Tier 2 would be any other football and basketball game and FOX just signed a huge deal with the Big 12 for those rights. It includes more games. Tier 3 would be anything not include in Tier 1 and 2 which are primarily the rights to the non-revenue generating sports. I think the contract with Fox the right to include one non-conference football game into it's Tier 3 package. KU broadcast the McNeese State game over the internet last week. The Longhorn Network essential UT's Tier 3 channel.

Ron Prichard 10 years, 11 months ago

Tier 1 & 2 aren't necessarily games as much as contracts. The TV deals with Fox and ESPN are Tier 1 & Tier 2. The Longhorn Network would be a Tier 3 deal. Essentially, who has priority for the games.

Ron Prichard 10 years, 11 months ago

I guess if I would have hit refresh I would have noticed others beat me to it. And, might I add, did a better job explaining than I did.

Ryan Shelton 10 years, 11 months ago

I'm willing to bet that OU wants the new HQ in OKC. With apologies to Texas A&M, it sounds like we are now being held hostage by Dan Boren.

Bear86 10 years, 11 months ago

If your in a conference revenue is split equally (not just for Tier 1 & 2 games). If you don't want to share then get the F-out! This whole mess is Texas fault. Note to KU admin: Get us out of this Texas ran conference!! F-Texas

LogicMan 10 years, 11 months ago

Now, now. That kind of talk just makes things worse.

Constructive criticism and ideas, please.

Bear86 10 years, 11 months ago

Idea #1: Get us out of this Texas ran conference!!

Idea #2: Get us out of this Texas ran conference!!

Idea #3: Get us out of this Texas ran conference!!

Idea #4: Get us out of this Texas ran conference!!

Idea #5: Get us out of this Texas ran conference!!

Idea #6: Get us out of this Texas ran conference!!

RockChalk73 10 years, 11 months ago

Ditto!!! I one hundred percent agree!!! Grow a backbone and be collegial.

Ron Prichard 10 years, 11 months ago

KU makes more money broadcasting basketball games on the Jayhawk Network than Missouri does on it's local networks. Does KU need to share all of that money equally with Missouri and the other schools? I'm certainly not a Texas apologist, but if Texas agrees to an equal split of Tier 1 & 2 revenues then why shouldn't they be able to keep their Tier 3 revenues? KU doesn't have its own network, but it does have its own Tier 3 revenue stream.

RockChalk73 10 years, 11 months ago

raprichard: If you are referring to the online JAYHAWK network then that is not Tier 1, 2, or 3. It is not technically part of TV revenue sharing, that I know of. Anyone have any clarificaiton on that? If you are referring to the local broadcasts of the games, are you sure that is Tier 3? No matter what!!! EQUAL IS ALWAYS more sustainable to create equity and competetive balance (see NFL vs MLB) Should the SEC kick Kentucky out of their league for not generating football revenue in line with Alabama? I could present many examples, but whats the point... unless you solve the revenue sharing ....

.... this has all happened before and it will happen again....

LogicMan 10 years, 11 months ago

OKC is a lot closer to us, and would be near the geographic center.

Just make sure the commissioner is independent. Suggestions?

RockChalk73 10 years, 11 months ago

How about a Roger Goodell understudy, or even intern would probably do better.

texashawk10 10 years, 11 months ago

Hell no to anybody affiliated with Goodell. He's ruining what Tagliabue built during his tenure. The Big 12 needs to go after someone with a marketing background similarly to what the PAC 12 did. Bring in an outsider from the world of college sports who has no allegiances to any current or potential future Big 12 school.

Kman_blue 10 years, 11 months ago

Let's make the site of the headquarters neutral as well and put it in Wichita, KS. 4 schools are within 3 hours or less, 2 more are within about 6 hours or less, and no school is more than 8 1/2 hours away. It's more centrally located relative to the remaining Big 12 than OKC and there's no Big 12 school located within its metro area, unlike OKC.

RockChalk73 10 years, 11 months ago

The BIG IXI will need to resolve the revenue sharing problem. I am not sure that equal sharing on first and second tier rights are enough when UT's ESPN contract is so hungry for programming that they are willing to "politic" for the 3rd tier They were trying to convince Texas Tech or Texas A&M to accept a game on the LHN. Can you really tell me convincingly that those games are 3rd tier?? What ever. Why are the Big IXI members so weak to allow one university so much power that the only end result is destruction. I hope Baylor's Defiance will serve as a wakeup call to BIG IXI leadership... 100 year decisions by Nebraska and Colorado have a whole lot more to do with stability than $$. Who knows if the $$ will be there in 10 or 20 years. Maybe we'll be watching games via free fan user posted live video feeds using Google wireless gigabit networks... I know far fetched right. The www is only 20 years old, so things are moving pretty fast.

... all of this has happened before and will happen again ...

ejlumus 10 years, 11 months ago

Live in Seattle here.

You want to go to this conference. Check the attendance at PAC games. Average first weekend B12 = 67K PAC 12 = 45K ...... a real football conference. You want to talk BB ..... same thing. PAC 12 sucks!!!!! If KU was gto be invited and joint KU wpould be in the same division as OU, OSU, ASU, AU, CO, UT, (UT or TT). Now be realistic .... how may games would KU win the conference, maybe 2 if we played WSU every year.

Think man THINK!!!!

Sam Constance 10 years, 11 months ago

Says the guy classifying the Pac 12 as a 'good' conference and the Big 12 as a 'bad' conference in basketball.

Funny thing about ignorance... you can figure out who's really ignorant with facts.

Let's compare the average conference RPI rank (among all conferences) of the Big 12 and Pac-10/12 since 2003:

Big 12 average place: 3.3 Pac 10/12 avg. place: 4.8

And a closer look at said facts shows why the Big 12 has averaged a full spot higher than the Pac 10/12. The Big 12 has only finished outside the top three 33% of the time. The Pac 10 has only finish inside the top FOUR 33% of the time.

As far as basketball is concerned, the Big 12 is a consistently superior conference to the Pac 10/12. This is not arguable.

Sam Constance 10 years, 11 months ago

Wow. Talk about a tortured chain of logic.

Calculated RPI rankings are equivalent to a handful of coaches' votes...

...and the fact that I made a fact-based case for why the Big 12 is better than the Pac 10 means I apparently like the BCS and think it's a good system.

Riiiiiight. Sounds to me like you simply have no valid response and must resort to non sequiturs and strawmen.

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 11 months ago

I just want it to be over 55% if I never here the word conference realignment again... 15% I give up 12% Would rather put a bullet in my head 10% Big east 8% Fire Turner 120%

(can someone check my math?)

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 11 months ago

The last one should be closer to 150% or so, I think you rounded down.

Is it to early to start voicing things like Hire Jim Tressel or other similar votes?

Chris Bailey 10 years, 11 months ago

I'm certain Jim Tressel has spent his entire time off in constant contact with the KU atheletic department. I bet he is waiting for the phone to ring. I mean really??? Do you seriously think we have any chance in hell of bringing in someone like Tressel? And what do we do when he comes in and doesn't win a bowl game after 1 season??? Do we fire him then? Will we have the fire Tressel idiots on here doing this same crap?

Michael Maris 10 years, 11 months ago

Manginorh00lz,

I actually wanted Kansas to hire Skip Holtz as their head coach (after Mangino was let go of his duties) and bring Kirk Woolfolk with him as the Weight & Strength coach to KU.

But as we all know, Holtz wasn't going to come to KU.

For those of you who don't know, Kirk Woolfolk walked on at Arkansas (when Lou was the head coach at Arkansas). Kirk ended up being a starter at Arkansas his Junior and Senior years.

When, Lou was hired at Notre Dame, Kirk was hired (away from Southwest Missouri State University) by Lou to be the Weight and Strength Coach at Notre Dame (while Skip was on the football team at Notre Dame).

Where is Kirk Woolfolk at theses days? Well, he is the Head Weight & Strength coach at the Naval Academy. His daughter competed on the U.S. Women Weight Lifting team (in the last Summer Olympics).

Kirk Woolfolk is from what Kansas Town? Protection, Kansas.

I would've loved for Kirk to have been closer to his hometown. His parents are great people. He had a nephew that walked on at K-State (for 1 year). Tyler Woolfolk. Poor Tyler, he made a bad decision. LOLLOLLOLL....

Nick Cole 10 years, 11 months ago

I think Dan Boob needs to grow a pair and tell all institutions "Listen, it is going to be completely equal revenue sharing across all tiers. If you don't like it [Texas and Oklahoma schools], then go find a new conference."

Too bad the commish is a puss & is basically a sparing buddy for the "bigger/better" schools to push around. Simply pathetic. I like the Big XII and want it to survive. However, if we do.t follow the model of other successful conferences, it may as well break up now.

Also, 610 sports reported this morning that Arizona and Arizona State may be interested in coming to the Big XII if what u suggested ends up happening. Them plus BYU or another big name school would make the Big XII a top conference, should aTm still leave. I would love this. O e less Texas school plus three strong programs would be awesome for this conference. Thoughts?

Nick Cole 10 years, 11 months ago

I'm sure someone us going to say something, so... Sorry about the typos. On my phone.

CaramelMacchMan 10 years, 11 months ago

With equal revenue sharing.. Schools like UT and OU will take a huge hit on their revenue. I don't think they would like that.

Arizona and ASU would be solid fit for big 12.

DevilHawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Not going to happen. The Big 12 might consider asking them to join (although I'm not sure that it makes sense), but ASU & UofA would listen only for the purpose of using the offer as a bargaining chip with the rest of the Pac.

  • ASU's major academic programs benefit significantly from associations with the schools in the Pac-12 - particularly the California schools.

  • ASU football and basketball have made major in-roads to California recruits and would not give those up.

  • Michael Crow's vision for ASU fits the culture of California and the West Coast more than it does any other part of the country.

  • A significant percentage of students at ASU (and I presume also UofA) are from California. This is going to remain constant, and athletes are going to want to play in their home state and be able to get home easily. It's a 6 hour from Phoenix to L.A. or San Diego. By comparison, it's a 17 or 18 hour drive from Phoenix to Dallas.

  • I have little doubt that UofA benefits significantly from revenue sharing.

  • UofA needs to remain at the top of their conference in basketball. That is easier to do in the Pac than it is in the Big 12.

  • Arizona universities need funding in any way that they can get it, because the state tends not to fund education. Why would they leave the best TV contract in the country?

Other thoughts:

  • The Big 12 should consider getting rid of Texas Tech. Doing so would significantly narrow the geographic size of the conference, presumably without losing much viewership.

CaramelMacchMan 10 years, 11 months ago

We should name this blog.

"Matt Uptait"

after how hard Matt works.

ejlumus 10 years, 11 months ago

AU & ASU to the B12 makes a lot sense. Add BYU or TCU and you have the 2nd best conference.

Kevin Randell 10 years, 11 months ago

Bleed C and B....I love what you said. Basically, what I have heard is this. OU is about winning championships in football....period. They are at the point that they know if they stay in a weak football conference that will never happen. That is the ONLY reason why they are looking out west.

Basically, it comes down to three things: 1. Texas needs to pony up that revenue sharing or be punt kick to the curb and try to sniff a national championship as an independent. Look how well that has worked out for ND. 2. We need to go out and get some competitive football schools to add to the conference. Heck....how about Boise? They are pretty ticked that they joined the Mountain West to only have TCU, BYU, and Utah split. I like the idea of adding the Arizona teams but will they leave the Pac-12 and all that $$$$? 3. Or....we just let the Oklahoma teams go, and end up the Big East of the Midwest. A good basketball conference with a few decent football teams.

I will just leave with this. I want what's best for KU. I am like many of you tired of the instability of this whole mess. We need to be united as one....Football and Basketball alike. Because if the football conference falls....the recruiting for basketball will fall to...if you don't think so. I have some ocean front property here in Oklahoma to sell you.

Have a great weekend everybody!

Bville Hawk 10 years, 11 months ago

I would have no problem with Oklahoma City being conference headquarters, they are probably more centrally located than DFW. I also have no problem with David Boren driving the bus for awhile, he beats the heck out of Deloss Dodds!

CaramelMacchMan 10 years, 11 months ago

How about we move big 12 headquarters to Chicago. Trump tower is going cheap nowadays. And we would be invading B1G's turf. Anytime Big 12 comes out with press conf. the Chicago area media will have to cover it. Unless there are restrictions on where the headquarter goes.

Bville Hawk 10 years, 11 months ago

"OU is about winning championships in football....period. They are at the point that they know if they stay in a weak football conference that will never happen. That is the ONLY reason why they are looking out west."

I find that hard to believe. OU hasn't had any trouble getting to the national championship game the last several years. They just haven't played well once they've gotten there. Playing in a different conference isn't going to help that unless they jump to the SEC to get better competition during the season, but then they have to win the SEC to get to the championship game and that ain't an easy thing to do..

jgkojak 10 years, 11 months ago

Teams to add: SOUTH FLORIDA from the Big East

1) Their travel couldn't be any worse/might be improved 2) Adds a new TV Market/recruiting market/nice place to play in winter 3) S Florida would likely jump IMMEDIATELY to B12 with no hesitation

ldjayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Hi Matt,

Enjoyed your work and they are as always great reads. I also admire your work-ethic. How much over-time have you put in this?

I do have a small suggestion though: have you considered trimming the URL links that you have been putting in your blog? A shorter URL will definitely make the articles look tidier which improves the overall reading experience.

Just a thought.

Matt Tait 10 years, 11 months ago

I can and will... With it flying so fast earlier this week, it just became so much easier to throw them up like that.

Thanks for reading. - Matt

Steve Hillyer 10 years, 11 months ago

I'm all for marriage and sticking it out but there comes a time when it is best just to split up and get a divorce, the Big 12 is at that point now. If the conference does stay together I hope KU lets it be known to other conferences (Big 10) that we would be open to relocation if and when they ever decide to expand.
As for AU and ASU coming to the Big 12, I don't believe it, from what I have read they don't want the PAC 12 to expand as that would keep them out of CA, so then why would they want to come to the Big 12?

ejlumus 10 years, 11 months ago

Recruit Texas. Southwest is a better fit then Pacific coast, probably tired of playing in WA & OR in the rain. Continual mist from October thru April .... maybe a week of sun in 1 hour increments.

ejlumus 10 years, 11 months ago

ok mangino ... you are correct .... now go eat a couple of plates of pasta.

tychi_jayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Wow. New name for a new, smaller but more profitable conference... Did anyone read that article by Mark Cuban? His man point was that super conferences don't necessarily translate into more money and that smaller, more robust conferences will ultimately prove to be the better path. Sounds just like what's unfolding.

Main keys to the "New Big12 Lite": 1. UT, OU long term contracts. 2. BCS keeps the conference as AQ. 3. More or less keep the same TV contract. With less memebers, more money... 4. Win. Games. Keep the conference relavent by making it premier...and not just OU and UT. We need the wallflowers of the league to start competing in BCS games, like KU did in 08.

To me, as long as these points are achieved, the new Big12 Lite should actually be in better shape than before. Rich and winning. Just like Charlie Sheene.

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 11 months ago

Didn't we say the same thing last year?

That this Big XII would be better than the last Big XII.

tychi_jayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Yup. We did. Good point.

Although I think now we're at the point where eveyone in the room is ok with texas running the show. NU and aTm despise texas and CU always wanted to be left coast. Pending MU shaking things up again, this arrangement looks to be more sturdy than last time.

tychi_jayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Anyone want to guess as to what the new conference name will be?

tychi_jayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

you did read the article, right?

"• If OU decides to commit to the Big 12 there is some talk that the Big 12 as we know it could fold and come back under a new name. That would include new headquarters and new leadership."

rob4lb 10 years, 11 months ago

The Tech article is interesting. Rebranding is a creative idea. I mentioned yesterday that the conference needs new leadership that looks out for the interest of the entire conference and I think moving HQ to some place like Oklahoma City would be a good move.

I'm not sure why the Arizona schools would be at interested in moving to the Big 12 though I think these schools would be 'poachable' with minimal litigation given the Pac 12 poached Colorado from the Big 12 last year.

Matt Tait 10 years, 11 months ago

Rebranding is an absolute must. It's one thing to survive this one time, but not twice. The "Big 12" name is synonymous with a lot of bad things right now...

As for new headquarters, OKC's good but don't overlook KC. I'd say it has a real shot. Obviously Texas would not love that idea but if it has to move, it has to move.

Provided the conference lives on, that's going to be very interesting to follow...

Michael Maris 10 years, 11 months ago

Moving to Kansas City would be a positive move (except for Texas and OU).

I'm sure that UT and OU will put up a good fight on that happening.

What do you think of my idea of offering NIU an invitation to the Big XII (soon to be ???????????? Conference)? Adding Chicagoland and Southern Wisconsin households tv's can't be a bad idea (as long as adding household tv's to your conference footprint).

That is probably somewhere around 7,000,000 new household to your conference tv footprint.

Michael Maris 10 years, 11 months ago

But, you chose to do it (didn't you).

Just don't fill up your boots with the piss and vinegar (that you seem to have buit up in your system).

Your idea of going to the PAC-?? isn't going to happen either.

Who the hell wants to watch basketball games against the PAC-?? Schools (when the are being played on the Left Coast at the late hours)?

Michael Maris 10 years, 11 months ago

Perhaps, you should look at Kevin Keitzman's idea (that he posted on 810 WHB blog site yesterday then).

Just blow the whole thing and go to 9 team divisions (in 18 Team Super Conference Scheme).

Regionalize everything. You will play the 8 other teams in your division. If the team choses to play 4 games against the other Divsion (of the Super Conference that your team happens to be in), so be it.

Or, your team can chose to play 4 games against other Super Conference Teams or FCS Schools (if you your team so desires).

That way, Mangino or Holtz, perhaps, KU will get into the PAC 18 or Big Ten (SuperConference).

So, KU stays with K-State, OU, OSU, Missouri, etc....

My thoughts was based on how the Big XII can get more Households to view their Conference Games (which is what this Expansion issue is all about).

So, what way can the Big XII (or whatever the Conference wants to be called in the future) get more viewers that the Conference doesn't already have.

Any Big 10 Schools going to join the Big XII? NO.

Any SEC Schools going to join the Big XII? NO.

Any PAC-12 Schools going to join the Big XII? NO.

Is BYU going to join the Big XII? No.

Is Notre Dame going to join the Big XII? No.

So, Big East? Cincinnati and Louisville are the most logical choices. But, are they going to join with the Conference being unstable. Not right now. 2 years of losing teams isn't being stable at all.

So, what other avenue can the Big XII expand their footprint and add alot of TV Sets to the footprint of the Big XII?

Add a FBS school that isn't in a Automatic Qualifing Conference.

Seems like the Big XII could look to the Chicagoland area to add alot of Households to your viewership.

"Build it, and they will Come".

DevilHawk 10 years, 11 months ago

I'd say move the HQ to KC and add a regional office in Dallas.

For less important meetings: ISU, KU, K-State, and Mizzou meet in KC; the Texas schools meet in Dallas; and the Oklahoma schools decide whether to meet in KC or Dallas. Conduct the meeting via video conference between the two groups.

It would reduce travel time and costs.

For more important meetings: All schools meet in KC. If the Texas schools chose to do so, they could meet at the Dallas office and "carpool" from there to KC and back...make UT foot the majority of the cost.

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 11 months ago

Why not have an office and teleconference all 12 (I mean 9) teams?

DevilHawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Some communications work better in person.

TKHAWK 10 years, 11 months ago

Whatever the name, T. Boone Pickens for Commissioner!!!! He doesn't take flack from anyone, especially not any "old money" Texans!

utahjayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Matt, what explains the rationale for UT and OU accepting less money through equal sharing? I guess I've always thought that those two schools, in particular, wouldn't be interested in the Big XII at all if they didn't have the sweetheart deal they both have.

UT's position would be doubly confusing given that a very credible source on a B1G website has indicated that UT has pitched their terms for admittance to their conference in 2014. What's your comment on that report? It seems you've cited a lot of sources indicating saving the Big XII but I think there's just as many in the last few days that say not.

Personally, I hope OU throws a grenade into this conference because the damage is beyond repair. Last year was enough and this year is too much. Plus, I'm tired of the old rivalaries (ones like ISU, TT) -- time to establish new rivalries either in the PAC or B1G. I don't think there's a ton of KU fans that travel to away games now that wouldn't take trips West or North.

texashawk10 10 years, 11 months ago

If the revenue sharing only occurs for the first and second tier TV contracts, OU and UT are only giving up a couple of million per year and if the conference stays at 9 and the second tier stays the roughly the same amount, they don't lose much, if anything, and the other 7 schools would make roughly an extra 3 million per year. The third tier is where the major differences in revenue come from because the Big 12 doesn't have its own network. Right now, third tier is what the individual schools make (Longhorn Network, Jayhawk TV, KSU's HD online network, etc.) and that's where you see the large discrepancies in TV revenue.

Matt Tait 10 years, 11 months ago

My response to the report is this: you never know... From what I'm hearing things look good for the Big 12 right now but that could change fast.

I'm not foolish enough to think that just because things are looking up schools aren't tapping into their back-up plans. They are. All of them. And they'll continue to do so until — and perhaps even after — some sort of resolution is reached. That's just the nature of the world we live in.

As for why UT and OU would accept less to stay in the league. The money's there and both of them will be fine no matter how it's split up. What's not there, if they go to another league, is the likelihood of being in the running for the national championship game every single year.

As it stands right now, if OU or Texas run through the Big 12, especially with no conference championship game, they're in the title game. Their odds are good each year. Way better than they would be in another, larger league. How's that for a sweetheart deal?

utahjayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Fair enough. Thanks for the response and keep up the great work.

texashawk10 10 years, 11 months ago

First and foremost, the Big 12 needs a new commissioner. Dan Beebe is a total moron who lacks vision and direction and is too closely associated with UT from a public perception. The Big 12 needs an outsider from the world of college athletics to come in and make the necessary changes and give the conference a clear vision because it's clear that Beebe has none of these qualities. Bring in someone from NASCAR that has been part of their growth over the last 10 years. Whether or not you're a fan of NASCAR, there is no denying the growth they have seen over the last decade as they now race at tracks in just about every part of the country and have a great marketing team. Someone from UFC would be good also as we've all seen the boom in popularity of MMA over the last decade courtesy of UFC.

As for moving the Big 12 offices out of Dallas, I would prefer them to stay there as long as there is a new commissioner because D/FW is the largest media market in the Big 12. If you want to move the offices though, I think Tulsa would be a good choice. OKC is too close to OU's campus as Norman is a suburb of OKC at this point. The Big 10 is the only conference that has it's HQ in the same city as a full-fledged member (Providence doesn't compete in football). I like having the Big 12 offices 3+ hours from any member institution because with an unbiased commissioner, it keeps member schools from being able to be in the ear of the commissioner 24/7 and let's him do his job.

DallasJayhawk1 10 years, 11 months ago

I was going to say the same thing--Dallas needs to remain the HQ. Especially with the loss of Nebraska nd Colorado to the north. DFW is the central economic hub of the region--and the airport is a main hub.

TKHAWK 10 years, 11 months ago

How about, The Hawkeye Sunflower Show Me Sooner Lone Star Conference. You can just add other states as they come in. Beehive, Praire, etc etc!

tychi_jayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

I think you mean cyclone, not hawkeye...... :)

TKHAWK 10 years, 11 months ago

A friend of mine just text me, how about the FUSEC conference. A little raunchy, but I like it! Sorry, Matt, hope that doesn't get my user id pulled!

Steve Gantz 10 years, 11 months ago

How about we turn the tables on the PAC 10 and try to get some of their teams, like, oh, Colorado?

Jonathan Allison 10 years, 11 months ago

but wouldn't you feel bad about ripping them away from their natural and historic rivalries with Wazzu and Arizona?

Travis Clementsmith 10 years, 11 months ago

If we get the same or more money and BCS status by staying at nine teams, why oh why does anyone want to go back to ten or twelve? And if, and I mean a Big IF, we do expand, why oh why are people suggesting Boise St? Hey, great football program, but it adds nothing else. It has a horrible basketball program, a small state population, a small school alumni base, it increases the distance to travel for games, doesn't increase value, has no recruiting grounds. Please stop suggesting Boise St. UA and ASU are not coming to the Big XII.

They are upset as it is that their California exposure is getting a hit in the PAC-12, they sure as hell don't want to sever it completely. BYU, maybe, but do you do it if it decreases your overall payout? Why not just rake in the cash, increase our non-con opportunities, and see how the Fine Nine does for a few years. Maybe in a few years some more attractive programs want us. I say stay at nine under a rebranded product and focus on making this conference great first, Then, down the road, explore expansion if it benefits us.

Justin LoBurgio 10 years, 11 months ago

Matt, Thanks for the constant updates. It helps to cure the boredom of sitting on the couch - post ACL surgery.

Matt Tait 10 years, 11 months ago

Ouch. Glad I could help. Here's to a speedy recovery.

Travis Clementsmith 10 years, 11 months ago

Matt,

I have another question, I'll try to make this one more succinct. What is the major motivation behind closing the Big XII and rebranding it as something else? I know a lot of people have some different reasons, but does this allow the conference members to renegotiate an entirely new contract, including the first tier rights? In other words, it seems TV execs and bowl people want the Big XII to survive, Do you think part of the reason these schools might be coming back together is to put into place a brand new contract that dramatically increases payouts for the smaller conference as long as the conference puts into place safeguards that actually hold it together in a more legal and/or financial sense?

Matt Tait 10 years, 11 months ago

I don't think the contracts have anything to do with it, if it happens. The TV money that's in place is good and the schools are and should be happy with that.

The rebranding would be done strictly from a PR standpoint and, almost certainly, would only take place if the TV execs were OK with it, which I'm assuming they would be.

Right now, it's all about putting distance between these past two debacles and the future. A new name helps.

50-50 odds of it happening, if you ask me.

Travis Clementsmith 10 years, 11 months ago

I was just curious, because if the Big XII is the one who made the last two contracts, and they fold the Big XII, wouldn't they have to renegotiate as a new conference? Or is it a simple matter of transferring the rights of the Big XII to the new name?

texashawk10 10 years, 11 months ago

Hey Matt,

What do you think the odds are of Dan Beebe still having his job as Big 12 commissioner by this time next year? It seems like he is largely at fault in this situation because of either his inability or unwillingness to be a strong leader which has created a lot of the unhappiness within the conference to begin with.

Matt Tait 10 years, 11 months ago

I'd say not great, but it definitely wouldn't surprise me...

If this league is gonna survive, changes need to be made. If he's willing and able to roll with some of those changes, he just might keep his job. If not, he might be gone.

I'd say it's 50-50 right now but the smart money would be on him being reassigned to some other position within the conference's administration, so long as he's willing to accept that role.

As I've said before... stay tuned!

TKHAWK 10 years, 11 months ago

Who picks the conference commissioner and who has the power to remove him? Is there a board?

Matt Tait 10 years, 11 months ago

Yes. The Big 12 Board of Directors, currently headed up by Missouri chancellor Brady Deaton, has the power to make such a decision.

I'm not sure what the voting arrangements/requirements are for that board or if they change depending on what's on the table.

Lee Stanford 10 years, 11 months ago

Great work on covering all of this re-alignment/re-structuring story, Matt.

As for the new conference, why not call it the South Central Conference (SCC)? Get rid of Dan Beebe and his crew; put the headquarters in OKC. That city would be the geographical center of the conference and placing the HQ there would appeal to the Oklahoma schools.

Then go after TCU, BYU, and Boise State to bring our numbers back to twelve.

Put the schools in two divisions as follows:

Division A

Oklahoma Oklahoma State Boise State BYU Iowa State Baylor

Division Alpha

Texas Texas Tech TCU Kansas Kansas State Missouri

As indicated, name the divisions “A” and “Alpha”. Keep it simple; no sense of inequality from names like “1" and “2"; and no stupid names like “Legends” and “Leaders”.

Require equal revenue sharing across the board. The Longhorns give their network to the conference, so it would become the SCC Network. All schools solidly commit to the conference through enforceable contracts requiring them to stay some reasonable number of years.

Then recruit an excellent commissioner. As the public face of the SCC, they would need charisma. They would be dedicated to total quality in all aspects of the conference, keeping happy not only the presidents and AD’s of the schools, but also all of the fans, academic personnel, and athletes.

We can always dream.

Josh Galler 10 years, 11 months ago

Boise st only brings in FB, and there is really no population out there to bring up the revenue. Basketball will be another Colorado. TCU make sense but again we already have the TX market with UT, Tech and Baylor. BYU, Airforce and maybe a Lousiville or a Memphis makes more sense.

Daniel Kennamore 10 years, 11 months ago

You're mistaken. Their wrestling team contends for and often wins the PAC 10 conference (they have an affiliation for that one sport). They win national titles track sports on a regular basis. They won the WAC conference in basketball (both regular season and tournament) a couple years ago and are always contenders.

All this on top of their stellar football program. I'd might go so far as to say they have a more balance athletic program than Kansas, Iowa State, or Kansas State. If they got the money injection of a BCS conference they could easily flesh out their programs in a few years.

aerohawk 10 years, 11 months ago

You are missing the point. Most schools only make money on FB and BB. All of the others cost money regardless of how well balanced the athletic department is. There are only a hand full of schools that make more money from BB than FB (KU is one of them).

That being said, there just aren't enough people in Idaho for its market to be relevant to a BCS conference. Sad but true.

Matt Tait 10 years, 11 months ago

Thanks a lot, Yllyrryon...

Big fan of the name you suggest. Biggest reason? If you say it fast, or, really, when you say it at all, it sounds an awful lot like "SEC" -- That could be the subtle jab others have been talking about.

Lee Stanford 10 years, 11 months ago

Thanks, Matt. And I like your point, here.

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 11 months ago

Why would we want 12 teams, we are fighting for revenue sharing of a 250MM contract? Last time I checked 250/9 is better than 250/12.

Kman_blue 10 years, 11 months ago

Make the HQ in Wichita and rename it the Big Pimpin Conference and I think you've got something!

jgkojak 10 years, 11 months ago

About the DRAFT idea-

Maybe the AP or whoever should get its poll voters together, have them volunteer to represent their home conferences they cover, and actually hold the thing as suggested - JUST TO SEE WHERE THINGS COME OUT-

I think it would be interesting.

Travis Clementsmith 10 years, 11 months ago

I like SCC, not bad at all. I hate inviting Boise St. Why do we need to expand right away. Exactly what value doe Boise St add? TCU I might grudgingly add simply because it is close and the football is good. BYU I can take or leave, but my preference is to remain at nine, at least until negotiations for the 1st tier comes up.

Sparko 10 years, 11 months ago

I am all for Texas A&M and the SEC being sued out of existence. I think its time they taught their "12th Man" how to honor a commitment.

Bville Hawk 10 years, 11 months ago

The only reason I could see for expanding from 9 back to 10 or 12 (assuming A&M will be set free if OU stays in the fold) would be so we could stage a conference championship game in football. Don't know what the numbers are, don't know if it's worth the additional expense of bringing in and sharing with 3 more schools.

miseryh8r 10 years, 11 months ago

Why is Boise st never included in big 12 expansion?

Travis Clementsmith 10 years, 11 months ago

  1. Other sports are not up to par
  2. Does not add "value"
  3. Small population state
  4. Small fan/alumni base
  5. Geographically way outside; travel expenses
  6. Not a "recruiting hotbed"
  7. Not near any major metro area
  8. do we really need to go on?

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 11 months ago

Would you actually expect OU to let them in?

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 11 months ago

Would you actually expect OU to let them in?

ptk51 10 years, 11 months ago

More stable, Big East or Big XII? If the former, then why in the heck would we think TCU would join the Big XII?

Travis Clementsmith 10 years, 11 months ago

Proximity, higher payout, better football conference

Travis Clementsmith 10 years, 11 months ago

So, if we go with the South Central Conference and we expand back to 12, will they name the divisions the "Crips" and the "Bloods"?

Lee Stanford 10 years, 11 months ago

How about "Contenders" and "Challengers"?

Kevin Randell 10 years, 11 months ago

Matt, you have done a top notch job this week! Go have fun this weekend, and relax watching the game. Rock Chalk buddy!

nckujayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Matt, If someone has asked, forgive me. If the Big 12 disbands in with the intentions of reforming, what guarantees are there that everyone will come back, and not use that as an opportunity to leave without any exit fees or legal responsibilities? At this point, if someone else leaves are there any exit fees to be collected? Would the conference then just fold and all agree to go their separate ways without exit fees.

Kristen Downing 10 years, 11 months ago

I hope those turncoat future PAC16 teams take a look at the MU game starting at 9:30 p.m. central time. The PAC12 loves those night starting times, so every time you visit a PAC12 stadium OU, OState your games will be starting any time from 8:00 to 9:30. Yup, you better get your caffeine going.

Lee Stanford 10 years, 11 months ago

I will offer a brief defense of my suggestion of adding Boise State, TCU, and BYU as part of an overhaul-and-renaming of the B12 Conference. For convenience, I am quoting a couple of other posts here.

I will cut this into smaller posts, as the preview function mentions a limit of 3,000 characters.

“CalHawk(anonymous)replies…

[re unsuitability of Boise State]

  1. Other sports are not up to par
  2. Does not add "value"
  3. Small population state
  4. Small fan/alumni base
  5. Geographically way outside; travel expenses
  6. Not a "recruiting hotbed"
  7. Not near any major metro area
  8. do we really need to go on?”

Compare this with another, posted above, which I will include here for convenience.

“dannylandulf(anonymous)replies…

You're mistaken. Their [Boise State’s] wrestling team contends for and often wins the PAC 10 conference (they have an affiliation for that one sport). They win national titles track sports on a regular basis. They won the WAC conference in basketball (both regular season and tournament) a couple years ago and are always contenders.

All this on top of their stellar football program. I'd might go so far as to say they have a more balance athletic program than Kansas, Iowa State, or Kansas State. If they got the money injection of a BCS conference they could easily flesh out their programs in a few years.”

Lee Stanford 10 years, 11 months ago

Also consider this. If the SCC existed today per my previous post (BYU, Boise State, and TCU added to the present 9), here is a comparison of how many football teams it would have in the AP top 25 vis-a-vis the other major conferences. The SCC ties the SEC at the top, and this assumes A&M is in the SEC.

SCC 7 SEC 7 B10 5 ACC 2 Big East 2 P12 2

Countless times it has been stated that football would be a (or the) fundamental factor driving any re-alignment. The other side of the coin is that football can/will contribute to a conference’s stability.

Boise State and TCU have been at the top of the polls for the past few seasons. And unless there are considerations not evident to this casual observer, they appear to be there to stay. And in my opinion, SCC membership would strengthen these programs.

So these two, along with BYU’s respectable program, could contribute to the staying power of the conference.

That being said, I do not have my heart set on adding these three teams, though I do enjoy watching Boise State play. And I already miss the Big 12 football championship game, hence the desire to see our league replenish its numbers to twelve.

Lee Stanford 10 years, 11 months ago

On a closing note, I wish to address Baylor’s threat to litigate and the opportunities we now have before us.

Pat Forde recently concluded a commentary with the following remarks.

“Nobody is looking out for the common good. Nobody is in charge. Those with the most juice are exerting it solely on their own behalf, with disregard for all that is unique in college sports: tradition, geographic sense, nonrevenue sports, collegiality, regional flavor.

With that as the cynical backdrop, we all watch the Texas cage match unfold. I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.”

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6941542/baylor-bears-biggest-obstacles-texas-aggies-join-sec

Kudos to Baylor for doing what they did.

In working out our differences and preserving our Midwestern conference in one form or another, we have an opportunity to set some examples and precedents: not only to demonstrate that these values Forde lists (tradition, geographic sense, collegiality, regional flavor) really do matter, but to protect them as well. In a country where even the government is for sale, it would be inspiring to see people come together and say no to the almighty dollar in the name of something more meaningful.

Kristen Downing 10 years, 11 months ago

I'm not sure what my comment about OU and OState starting late has anyhting to do with KU 's start time 10/29. They are not threatening to go to the weak PAC12. But, I went to the KU athletic website and they showed the time TBA?

JayDocMD 10 years, 11 months ago

Interesting tidbit found in an online article written about Baylor returning most of their alloted tickets to A&M.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6948869/baylor-returns-tickets-game-texas-am

Most interesting part to me was how many tix others visiting teams had purchased: "Texas was the only team to keep its full allotment of 3,850 tickets available to all visiting teams. SMU took 1,988 tickets, followed by Kansas (1,750), Missouri (1,600) and Oklahoma State (1,428)."

So let me get this straight. Lowly "bottom feeder" KU travels better than top 25 MU and top 10 OSU? Interesting.

Kristen Downing 10 years, 11 months ago

Ahhhh, the infamous LHN. Are you sure it is live? "Pac or Bust", I'm afraid you might be biased. I live in California and would love to see my JHawks, but I feel for the true fans back home in the midwest. Are you sure you are a true Jhawk fan?

Ludwig Supraphonic 10 years, 11 months ago

I'm certain several conferences would lay claim to being the best. The Pac12 is not the best in the midwest, has one team in a state that borders Kansas (unless we're extras in a post Steinbeck OU, OSU migration), has no KU rivals (yes, some people do like the trip to Boulder), KU students won't be flying, driving, or teleporting to Pullman or Corvallis in large numbers and won't have bragging rights over friends in Eugene. Yes, you can propose a Pac East and West. The Arizona schools want no part of midwest trips vs. recruiting, road tripping, and partying on the Left Coast. Colorado thinks they escaped the family and resists being pulled back in. Folks in Phoenix won't gladly trade a road trip to LA for a long weekend in Stillwater. KU would raise the level of Pac12 basketball. Football in a 16 team conference would allow UT, OU, USC, Oregon, and occasionally Stanford to play on national TV. We will play numerous games that contain no local interest for our fans or the fans of WSU, Oregon State, Washington, Arizona State, or Arizona. They may make local TV but would have no regional interest in the West, Southwest, or Midwest.
I live in ACC, SEC country. However convenient it would be for me to have KU play within driving distance, get coverage in the local media. and be a relevant topic on local talk shows; KU is a midwestern university and needs to be be based where the students and student-athletes reside. It's wonderful KU has supportive alumni on both coasts and in Chicago and that many travel well. Support the Jayhawks but don't hope for their relocation for your convenience. KU is a midwestern school.

Ludwig Supraphonic 10 years, 11 months ago

Colorado and the Arizona schools would have little interest in leaving West coast recruiting and road trips to accomodate OU, OSU, or KU.

FLJHK 10 years, 11 months ago

Hornhawk: Very well stated. I too live in ACC,SEC country (Tampa) and would selfishly love to have KU on the local radar. But KU is a midwestern school, and needs to remain so until such time as circumstances force alternative considerations.

FLJHK 10 years, 11 months ago

I appreciate your passion and agree that the PAC would be a great destination. But, IMHO the PAC is the second best conference, and the current prospects of KU ending up in either of the top two conferences, B 10 and PAC, are remote.

Josh Galler 10 years, 11 months ago

Just wondering are you in Atlanta? I have one of my AEPi fraternity brothers live there and another friend who is there too.

jgkojak 10 years, 11 months ago

We will not add Boise St - they bring nothing to the table - they're actually smaller than Northern Illinois, etc.

BIG 12 CANDIDATES 1. BYU 2. TCU will Texas allow it? 3. Air Force (if BYU joins - gives them a travel partner) 4. South Florida (nice pace to visit, new TVs, travel for them no worse) 5. Houston 6. Louisville/CIncinatti (package deal) 7 SMU - are they ready for the big time?

I'll also add--- would it make any sense to add DePaul and Marquette as basketball-only schools?

aerohawk 10 years, 11 months ago

I say 1 and 6.

Airforce isn't a travel partner for BYU. It is like a 8-10 hour drive from Provo to Colorado Springs. Or a flight from SLC to Denver, but if you are getting on a flight.... Colorado Springs is only 15 miles further from Lawrence than Provo. Google it if you don't believe me.

Robert Lofthouse 10 years, 11 months ago

get something out of the South Eastern Conference, Chicago, and Rocky Mountain markets.. who cares if we poach the SEC, PAC12 and Big10 markets for up and coming [non-BCS] football schools? as it would give the BIG12 entry into those markets and possible fertile ground for recruits that can't make it into their "local" BCS conferences - Chicago brings in the Big 10+ market and the Rockies encroaches on PAC12 - brings us back to 12 and expands the reach of the XII into three new areas putting the PAC12, Big10 and SEC on notice that the XII won't go away quietly -- also gives the XII cushion if anyone else considers leaving -- grow small to stabilize before adding 4 more bigger teams in two or three years

LogicMan 10 years, 11 months ago

That story sounds possible -- UT to keep the conference together until 2014 when that contract expires. I wonder if NU would be mad enough to come back to a reformed Big 8.

LogicMan 10 years, 11 months ago

Wow -- Texas Tech got played by UT, and will get thrown under the wagon wheels in 2014 if this happens. I suspect they will not be happy today after hearing the above news about UT/ND/B1G.

DallasJayhawk1 10 years, 11 months ago

It's possible---but I don't see the big powers at Notre Dame approving this--they give up their sole NBC TV deal. And as you mentioned, why would they do to that Nebraska.

David Atchley 10 years, 11 months ago

BYU earned a whopping $2M from TV revenue in the MWC. Baylor, Iowa State and whatever Kansas school any of the sensitive posters want to include, should be fighting tooth/nail to keep the Big 12 intact.

The television contract for the Big 12 will be more money than any of the schools have ever enjoyed. In some cases for the second tier schools in the Conference (insert whatever criteria you wish to measure) will experience a windfall like they never imagined. In a time when booster contributions, ticket and merchandise sales are down at a lot of schools,

NO school in the country, much less in the Big 12 Conference, would say "no thanks" to a $300M contract from ESPN. Cry foul, cry how unjust or damaging, or how entitled UT may feel, bottom line, ESPN came knocking and for $300M, UT gladly opened the door.

Larry Scott, whether posturing or simply providing distance from the mess created by the whole A&M to the SEC has said they're very content with 12 teams and not looking to expand. Kenneth Starr and the Baylor Bears standing up and demanding commitment and answers from Big 12 Conference members...All of the chatter about going to Big East, or the ACC or the PAC 12....is wasted energy. The best scenario for all schools is to fight and stengthen the Big 12 Conference.

."Its better to dance with the devil you know...than the devil you don't" - Anthony Trollope

AcesWild 10 years, 11 months ago

ku needs to end this thing, and go to the acc, with tex& mizzu & kst,thank of the rivalies thing & the tv contracts, for basketball & football, that that would produce, out of this world...!

kansaspike 10 years, 11 months ago

Watching ESPN...headline that 2 big 12 schools joining the Pac is "fluid". Whatever that means.

AZHawk72 10 years, 11 months ago

To ESPN "fluid" means there's a urinal nearby--which is where more than half of their rumors end up. I tend to trust Boone's (not the cheap wine guy) thoughts on Thursday during the Arizona debacle at Okie-St--"We don't want to leave..." So, why isn't anything being done to ensure that something happens? The leadership of this conference is in danger of becoming the latest oxymoron for anything resembling "proactive leadership"--just sit around and do nothing until the whole league falls apart.

As far as conference naming goes, when in doubt, stick with your utilities as they always outlast leagues and their members. So, in that Southwestern Bell was always based in St. Louis for decades--even though it was the most northeastern major city served by the A.T. & T. breakup survivor--the move to the hated Dallas area was probably more in tune with how Madison Avenue views this region. After all, so much of naming is about perception not reality. The league should be called "The Great Southwest." We're viewed by the East as Texas and those farms states above it, so roll with it.

I'd put the headquarters in Tulsa to keep Okie-State and the Boomers off each others' backs. If we acquire Tulsa as an addition toward 16 schools, then it has to be Wichita, with Amarillo as a dusty, windy, sloppy second--(just think how infrequently league officials would meet)--and wouldn't this be appropriate for Beebe to call home--"...and to reward you for your efforts, commissioner, which has amounted to nothing, we give you, well, nothing--enjoy your new digs."

PS. Get rid of Texas and A&M, then get Houston, Southern Methodist, BYU, and Air Force. PSS Rice beat Purdue today--welcome to your new league of "legends" and "leaders," Nebraska.

DallasJayhawk1 10 years, 11 months ago

If BYU holds on to beat UT tonight how ironic would that be. And also Nebraska is tied at half with Fresno State. The 2 "football" schools that were at odds at each other last year which caused all of the problems because they thought they were football "powers'.

AcesWild 10 years, 11 months ago

The kansas AD is wanting the fan base to believe that this is the way to go. It is only one of two schools that is doing it this way in the big 12. Kansas has one of the greastest basketball traditition in the country. Do you think Duke or North Carolina would be in this position? The Kansas AD wants u to believe this is all about football, this is about what turn T.V. nobes. Kansas basketball nationally turns T.V. nobs alone. Now we are in a sandbox with Kansas State, Iowa State, and Baylor. Give me a break! Whats next K-State out postions Kansas.

142466 10 years, 11 months ago

Agreed.

In this opening round of realignment, our bb program is the one exception to the current preoccupation with the fb shuffle.

We should not cover our heads and sleep with the desperados. We, along with Mizzou, should be PACin. KU's VIPs better be taking all preliminary steps to assure that it happens.

I acknowledge that today, on this beautiful Sunday afternoon, we can't be absolutely certain that OU's & OSU's move to the PAC is imminent. But it's coming. The B12 weaklings are trying to get up off the canvas, but UT and OU are going to knock them out.

DallasJayhawk1 10 years, 11 months ago

Still the best option for UT and OU is to remain the Big 12 and to make it work. Why would they want to go to the Pac-12 and lessen their chance to get to a BCS game ? And especially with what all the legal issues Aggies had with going to the SEC--do they really want to go through all of that mess ? I just don't see it.

Steve Brown 10 years, 11 months ago

"Require equal revenue sharing across the board. The Longhorns give ..." if Texas would share equally, then we would still have Buffs and Cornhuskers. ATM along with all those who left are the smart ones. I would rather be a knight at King's round table than a serf in the Bevo conference.

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