Realignment Today: 11:06 p.m. - Sources, reports indicate Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe on way out


11:06 p.m. Update:

Tonight was my wife's birthday and I tried to stay away from the blog for a night but it didn't work. Something had to happen.

According a report from Mike DeArmond, who covers Missouri, Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe is planning an exit from his post. also is reporting the news, and had this from Andy Katz:

Beebe was one of five BCS commissioners absent from the Collegiate Commissioner Association meetings in Chicago on Wednesday, a source told's Andy Katz. The only BCS conference commissioner in attendance was Jim Delany of the Big Ten — the only BCS conference not dealing with expansion.

Earlier today, Big 12 sources indicated to me that Beebe would likely leave.

“I sense that he’s gonna be the scapegoat," one source said.

This, surely is not major news, though the fact that it's happening so quickly may come as some surprise.

Less than 24 hours ago, Beebe was the leader of a Big 12 Conference that was fighting for its life. Tonight, the conference looks very much alive but Beebe's time as its leader appears to be finished.

Check back tomorrow for much more on the Beebe story. I'll be on it bright and early.

As for the birthday, we had a great dinner with great friends.

More tomorrow. Stay tuned...

4:22 p.m. Update:

This just in from the Journal-World's Scott Rothschild in Topeka.

Kansas higher education officials Wednesday said they were happy that the Big 12 was staying somewhat intact for now.

"We're glad the Big 12 is staying together and that KU and K-State stay together," said Board of Regents Chairman Ed McKechnie.

Texas A&M is leaving for the Southeastern Conference, which led to weeks of speculation that Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State were going to join the Pac-12.

But the Pac-12 announced late Tuesday it would stay at 12 members.

As rumors swirled about the potential demise of the Big 12, speculation exploded about which conference Kansas University and Kansas State would join.

Gov. Sam Brownback, McKechnie and university officials all publicly stated they wanted the remaining Big 12 schools to stay together, and for KU and KSU to stay together in the league.

And that's how it has turned out, at least for the near term. "That is ideal for us," said KU Chancellor Bernadette Gray-Little.

She said staying in the Big 12 was important. Being in a less prominent league may have reduced KU's visibility in the eyes of some potential students, she said.

Resolution of the issue, McKechnie said, "lets us focus back on academics. I feel better today than I have in five weeks."

The regents were scheduled to go into a closed session to review the contracts that KU and KSU has with the Big 12.

"We just want to see where we're going," McKechnie said.

In Austin, Texas officials said they were open to a new revenue-sharing model in the Big 12. In April, the Big 12 agreed to a 13-year TV deal with Fox Sports worth more than $1 billion. Texas gets a larger share of revenue from TV contracts than some Big 12 members. Texas, however, said revenue-sharing offers don't include the Longhorn Network, which Texas launched several weeks ago with ESPN.

Libby Johnson, president of the KU student body, said the developments concerning the Big 12 have been a major topic of discussion.

"The student body is definitely concerned about it and paying attention," Johnson said.

Johnson said she hoped KU stayed in the Big 12. "The Big 12 has served KU students well," she said.

Stay tuned...

3:53 p.m. Update:

While we're talking about Missouri... Here's something I stumbled across that made me laugh. Don't take it too serious. Just a bit of comic relief.

By the way, the more people I talk to today the more I'm sensing that Mizzou is all-in on the Big 12, just as I've been told all along.

Stay tuned...

3:31 p.m. Update:

Talk continues to move forward about replacing Big 12 commissioner with an interim commissioner, for now, and someone who could move the conference forward in a united manner.

One name that keeps popping up is Chuck Neinas, a former Big Eight commissioner, who served from 1971-80.

Here are the highlights of Neinas' qualifications:

• Negotiated television contracts and administered a television plan on behalf of the CFA members from 1984 through 1995 that included ABC, CBS, NBC and ESPN.

• Assumed responsibility for promoting CFA sponsored NCAA legislation that included the improvement of academic standards, the development of the continuing eligibility rule requiring progress toward a degree, establishment of more reasonable and enforceable NCAA rules including the recruiting calendar and elimination of the alumni and boosters from the recruiting process.

• As assistant executive director of the NCAA from 1961 to 1971, Neinas served as secretary to the NCAA Council (the policy making board of the organization) and Executive Committee (responsible for financial and business affairs). He was supervisor of NCAA Championships including direct responsibility for the National Collegiate Basketball Championship and College World Series, and served as NCAA Congressional liaison.

• Also has experience with the U.S. Olympic Committee as well as experience working with the NBA's Denver Nuggets and NHL's Colorado Avalanche.

For a full look at his bio, along with a link to his actual resume. They'll search this out but Neinas sounds as good as anybody.

Stay tuned... Gathering more on where Missouri stands right now...

2:47 p.m. Update:

Realignment aftermath still ongoing... But for those who may have missed it, Wichita Heights standout Perry Ellis has committed to Kansas to play basketball.

Great pick-up for the Jayhawks.

Stay tuned...

12:28 p.m. Update:

Texas AD DeLoss Dodds spoke a few minutes ago regarding the Big 12's survival, its future and the idea that Texas will have to concede some power if things are going to work out.

Here are some of the highlights of what he had to say:

• Dodds on Big 12: "I'm relieved. Bottom line, it's the right thing to do for our kids. We want to get stability quickly."

• Dodds on Conference Realignment 2011: "Ten years from now, people are going to look back at this and say that wasn't that big of a deal."

• Dodds on sharing LHN/TV revenue: Says B12 will share first and second tier TV rights equally but sharing third-tier (LHN) in non-negotiable.

--- on a side note, OU is demanding via the contract with ESPN, that there be assurances made that no one leaves the Big 12 for at least six years ---

• Dodds on UT's image: "We are who we are. People say what they say. The outcome is the outcome. We're proud of ourselves."

Stay tuned...

11:16 a.m. Update:

Been scrolling through the comments and various other web sites this morning and it seems like there are some common questions that everyone following this thing wants answered now that we're on to the next stage.

The following links are an attempt to answer some of those.

What's next for OU, now that the Pac-12 is off the table and the demands have been made? Berry Tramel, of the Daily Oklahoman and the OU student paper attempt to address that...

Dan Wetzel, of Yahoo!, recaps that the Big 12 lives on for now....

Jon Wilner, one of the people who has covered this thing the best from the Pac-12 perspective examines if the Pac-12 risked its future by not expanding now...

And, finally, here's a good breakdown of some of the major questions that stretch from coast-to-coast...

Stay tuned...

10:21 a.m. Update:

Care to hear what Pickens is saying about the Aggies? Here are a couple of Tweets that the Oklahoma State booster sent out this morning.

It's a great sign for the league that Pickens is supporting the Big 12 so strongly right now. Can only help as they move forward.

Aggies are a big part of #Big12. Truly hope they are not gone yet. Told them that, know they are listening, but not sure they are hearing

Must be equality & stability in #Big12. It's easy-don't have to explain "split" & "even." issue is equal split & everyone treated evenly!/boonepickens

Stay tuned...

10:04 a.m. Update:

By now, anyone reading this surely knows the nature of the events that unfolded late last night, as the Pac-12 announced that it would not be expanding at this time and people throughout Big 12 country breathed a huge sigh of relief.

As the news broke, various reports started to fill the Internet regarding what's next for the Big 12 and conference realignment.

We are to that point. But the Big 12 still has a bunch of pieces to put back together before we can move firmly into the next stage.

Phone calls to various Big 12 sources this morning revealed the same message: We can breathe a little bit here. But we're not going to breathe too much because there's still work to be done.

First, there's this report from BYU's site that indicates that the Cougars are a serious contender to join the Big 12, should the league look to expand.

While there may be some truth in here, my sources are telling me that there's still a lot that the surviving Big 12 needs to fix and focus on before it can worry about expansion. That said, casual talks have been ongoing — or at least had been until the last two weeks when everyone flipped the switch into survival mode — about which schools would be good fits and which would not.

A couple of quick nuggets from various reports around the Big 12...

• Chip Brown of is reporting that if the Big 12 stays together, Baylor will waive its right to legal action against Texas A&M and let the Aggies go to the SEC peacefully.

• Reports out of Oklahoma indicated late last night that OU president David Boren told reporters that OU had decided against applying to the Pac-12 anyway and was poised for a return to the Big 12. While many are skeptical, it's entirely possible that, seeing the writing on the wall, Boren had decided that. Remember, the guy's a politician and if he would've been just a bit quicker with his announcement the news would've reflected more poorly on Larry Scott and the Pac-12 than OU. Instead, Scott beat him to the punch with the announcement. Smooth move.

• For those, who still care, here's a story from the Chicago Tribune about what Tuesday's news and this year's round of realignment means for Notre Dame.,0,5790685.story

• Oklahoma State alum T. Boone Pickens continues to beat the drum for the idea of Texas A&M "sobering up" and returning to the Big 12. Not gonna happen. The Aggies are gone and, more importantly, the rest of the league is ready to let them go. Assuming they can settle things and redo the league's structure a little bit, finding a suitable replacement for A&M should not be that difficult. May not happen overnight, but will happen.

• You're wondering about Dan Beebe's spot in all this? Me too. Although nothing has been officially decided — in fact, talks have barely just begun — several Big 12 schools have informed Beebe that they want to see a change in leadership and sources have indicated to me that it looks like a change will be made. When? Who knows. But most likely sooner rather than later. In some ways, I wouldn't be surprised if Beebe stepped away on his own here. Being the leader of this conference has been nothing but a headache for the past two years. He's had his run, he'll be well compensated and, with his credentials, he'll be able to find another job in another conference rather easily. Won't be a commissioner, but, after all this, is that such a bad thing?

I'll stay on the news throughout the day and bring updates as they come. I'll also continue to work the phones to make sure that we're on top of the latest regarding the Big 12's future and what's next for Kansas.

Make no mistake, though... Last night was a huge night for KU, the Big 12 Conference and the thousands of us who are ready for this thing to end. I'll also keep posting various links to commentary and analysis through the eyes of the other schools, states and conferences who are involved in this thing.

Smile. But don't celebrate just yet.

Stay tuned...

As for those of you who are ready to turn your attention fully back to KU, the Kansas football team is on a bye this week so things should be pretty quiet there. But the KU basketball team will be waiting anxiously to see if Wichita prep star Perry Ellis will pick the Jayhawks at today's announcement.

Here's more on the Ellis situation. His announcement is supposed to come at 2:45 this afternoon.


cpatgreen 11 years, 2 months ago

so oklahoma can make demands but with no place to go now why would texas make concessions? what are oklahoma's options?

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm digging up some stories from Soonerville on that very topic. Stick with me and check the blog for links in a little while.

Bottom line is this: OU is going to say that all it wanted was stability all along. It's also going to say that, after carefully considering the options, it decided that the Big 12 is the best place for them to gain stability. True or not, it doesn't matter. That's how OU will save face and, because the rest of the league wants and needs them around, that will be enough for the others to welcome them back with open arms.

In fact, it's possible that they'll applaud OU because this move, whatever you want to call it, may actually be the thing that brings about much needed change in the Big 12.

I'll stop short of saying "Bravo" but the league could become stronger because of what OU did here...

Marcia Parsons 11 years, 2 months ago

I'd like to see the rest of the schools stand up with Oklahoma and make those same demands as a bloc. Texas would either agree or leave. We'd no doubt lose some revenue if they chose to leave, but getting rid of all the Texas problems would be worth a lot.

Alan Braun 11 years, 2 months ago

Matt - I hope the LJW gives you a raise and a few days off. Your coverage of this whole affair has been outstanding! Thanks for your efforts.

miajhwk 11 years, 2 months ago

matt, i often believe that your outlook is a little optomistic and naive, but i think you hit the nail right on the head about oklahoma's moves over the last couple days. however, i do not believe that they are committed to the big 12. i am beginning to think that texas is the problem -- everyone wants them because they are good at football and because they bring in not 1 but 2 huge tv markets. but they want to control their revenues so they do little to add value to other leagues. i think beebe recognized this last year and showed texas that the only way for texas to control that revenue was to stay in the big 12. well the chickens have come home to roost on that one -- a&m is already gone, ou and osu have one foot out the door, mizzou is mentioned as a candidate for vacancies. the point is, the other schools with any kind of football / tv market value are shopping themselves -- because they can do better in a league that shares revenues. texas may remain inflexible on its LHN revenues, but if so, it may find itself in a league with tt, ksu, ku, isu, and whatever crumbs the rebuilt big 12 can entice from non-bcs leagues. not exactly must-see football matchups.

that won't happen.

eventually, texas is going to realize that one school does not a valuable football conference make. you need competition to drum up interest in watching your program. you need people watching your program to give recruits the exposure they demand. you need good recruits to have a competitive program. you need a competitive program to enhance league competition. it's a virtuous cycle.

the acc is clearly way ahead of the curve. their moves this week were both unexpected and shrewd. by picking off syracuse, they have planted their flag in nyc. uconn and rutgers are virtually assured of joining the acc at this point. the big 10 is likely holding its cards until they can finally pry notre dame out of its independent obsession, and the lever will be money. (for crying out loud, if push comes to shove, the big 10 will expand to 15 and leave a seat at the table for nd whenever they decide they want to take it.) the pac is standing by waiting for texas to come to its senses regarding revenue sharing and long-term sustainabiity of its model. the sec is waiting to see if they can pick off some plums in the meantime. i do think you will hear talk of ou and the sec in the very near future. whether that will be because ou is committed to joining the sec or because ou wants texas to change it's model and pave the way for them both to join the pac is anyone's guess.

that's my 2 cents. your coverage is appreciated. rcjh.

lee3022 11 years, 2 months ago

With T. Boone Pickins call for Texas A&M to sober up, it appears that their foil (Texas) has done just that. Remember Texas was not going to get TV rights over 1/16 in a revised PAC 1X. In fact the PAC would have none of the equality issues Texas has been causing for years. The need for stability has become evident as the conference has lost three schools in two years because of Texas and Beebe's catering. Now Texas is in a pickle. They have offered up equal shares of Tier 1 and Tier 2 TV rights but insist on keeping all of Tier 3. ESPN has insisted on running the LHN contrary to Big XII rules and NCAA rules. The upshot is that Texas is becoming a pariah to other conferences with its LHN.

Texas has also realized that their own athletes are at some risk by excessive travel, especially for non-revenue sports which often will require commercial air with several transfers to each destination in PAC. That shatters the illusion of student-athlete (bet you were not holding that too close before) and threatens the participation of some non-scholarship athletes who actually want an education. It also puts its alumni at a disadvantage traveling to away games over 2-3,000 miles several times each year.

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

That's pretty good... I've really enjoyed your changing Avatar's throughout this. Thanks for the comic relief!

Sam Constance 11 years, 2 months ago

Shhhhh. Don't tell him it's comic relief to the rest of us!


Carter Patterson 11 years, 2 months ago

Matt....if the B1G comes calling, what do you think we'll do?

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

So long as the Big 12 schools are on the path to reconciliation KU will remain a strong and proud member of the Big 12.

That said, the Big Ten has been hesitant to jump into the expansion game to begin with and now, almost certainly, won't do anything with the Pac-12 standing pat.

You never know, but I'm betting that's a call KU won't have to field.

miajhwk 11 years, 2 months ago

the big 10 is not going to add anyone else until they finally get notre dame. you can take that to the bank.

think about it. they added a premier program in nebraska. they're building out their revenue model. that money is going to be irresistable to notre dame.

once the big 10 get notre dame, they will have their choice of schools to fill out the remaining spots to get to 16.

ModerateOne 11 years, 2 months ago

If Beyonce and Jessica Alba come calling, what do you think we'll do?

LogicMan 11 years, 2 months ago

If we really want to go, and the B1G wants us, we and the B1G could publicly agree that "KU will join the B1G if and when the Big XII, as currently composed, becomes nonviable."

That will give us some time, and give reassurance to donors, financiers, and the State about expanding our facilities and doing other necessary improvements.

Hopefully the B1G would include MU, KSU, and or ISU in that same public agreement so they can start making definitive improvements too.

ParisHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Just in case, time to come up with a new name for the Conference. Some ideas:

  • "The Conference formerly known as the Big 12"

  • The Bevo and BoomerHead Conference

  • The BeebeGone Conference

  • The Big YU Conference: shout-out to our Number 1 10th team

  • The Independents Welcome Conference Yes, Notre Dame, you can have your cake and eat it too, just like Bevo.

  • The Google Conference: because we are constantly searching for ways to keep the Conference alive

  • The iConference: goes well with version numbers.

All fact, no malice...

Hank Cross 11 years, 2 months ago

The only commissioner job that Beebe is fit for is the Greek Islands Conference or whatever they call the BB league that Brady is playing for. Greece is the one place so down, even Beebe couldn't harm it.

truman 11 years, 2 months ago

It is doubtful the Big Ten will come calling. If you have ever attended a Big Ten football game, you will learn that KU has nothing like the tradition and fan support at their games that even comes close to the Big Ten. (BB games in Allen do not count). So KU FB is not very attractive to the Big Ten. And it is more difficult to get into a Big Ten school than overall academically, we aren't that close.

LogicMan 11 years, 2 months ago

So what specifically does KU need to do to make them more alike?

Benjamin Piehler 11 years, 2 months ago

We're better academically than Nebraska....

Steve Gantz 11 years, 2 months ago

Northwestern and Indiana are the exceptions to the Big1G football rule, so I guess KU may fit in with that criteria.

chipmunk1956 11 years, 2 months ago

I keep hearing about how the Big 10 wouldn't take KU because of our lack of support for football. Question... What kind of crowds do Indiana and Northwestern draw? It's not like the Big 10 is void of football teams that "suck." Just my $0.02

Ervin O'Neal 11 years, 2 months ago

I think that is exactly the point. The B1G does not want to add another football program like Northwestern or Illini into their equal revenue sharing pool. It wouldn't make financial sense.

jayhawkintx73 11 years, 2 months ago

Let me just say this. This should be a motivation for KU's fan base. Sell out the games. Give them a reason to build on. Sell out and put another 30K on the hill every home game. There is an entire South End that can be used for 20K seats and another level on the North End as well.

Move the stands closer to field. Especially at the End Zones. Track and Field isn't a Fall Sport. They can build a feature on the South End that rolls over the track to within about 10 feet from he back of the End Zone..

Just FYI, TCU tore down party of their stadium and they're adding on. KU has more money than TCU<< More alumni <<< More financiers.

jayhawkintx73 11 years, 2 months ago

Let me just say this. This should be a motivation for KU's fan base. Sell out the games. Give them a reason to build on. Sell out and put another 30K on the hill every home game. There is an entire South End that can be used for 20K seats and another level on the North End as well.

Move the stands closer to field. Especially at the End Zones. Track and Field isn't a Fall Sport. They can build a feature on the South End that rolls over the track to within about 10 feet from he back of the End Zone..

Just FYI, TCU tore down party of their stadium and they're adding on. KU has more money than TCU<< More alumni <<< More financiers.

ChicagoHawk04 11 years, 2 months ago

Matt – many thanks for staying up on all the latest developments and keeping us informed of potential impacts to the UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS (my first time posting, don’t understand why LJW uses “Kansas University,” let’s save this for another time).

One thing I’ve never understood since this whole realignment circus began is why football has automatically been declared the driving force for negotiating bigger TV contracts. The prevailing notion is you either need to be a national football brand or and half-decent football brand in a major market to be a player in the realignment game. No one seems to really challenge this notion. Football = money, money = football, they’re essentially synonymous, everything else is next to irrelevant.

According to this site of Network TV Ad Revenues for major sports during the 2005-06 season, (the latest I could find after a quick search) men’s college basketball generated roughly $662M in ad revenue for TV networks ($165M for regular season, $497M for NCAA tourney) while college football generated $506M ($396M for regular season, $110M for Bowl Games).

I admit, there are a couple things that dilute basketball’s value, even if these numbers are accurate and comprehensive: One, there’s a much higher volume of basketball games compared to football games, so not as much “bang for the buck” once that $662M is spread across 3x as many games. Two, the NCAA holds the rights to the postseason tourney and slices that $497M pie across 300+ schools as well as whatever the NCAA needs to operate its organization. Regardless, there is enough money there to think that basketball would be more than an afterthought in realignment discussions, especially if the money is split across fewer schools.

There has been some talk that with four 16-school super conferences the NCAA goes away and the super conferences find a way to govern and police themselves (many would argue that the NCAA should go away regardless of whether super conferences materialize or not). If that happens, I’m guessing that the super conferences form their own tournament, basketball revenue would be distributed by conference, similar to football revenue, and the value of having a storied basketball program in your conference portfolio would dramatically increase your leverage in TV network negotiations.

My question is, has there been any indication from other reporters, bloggers, or any of your sources that some forward-thinking commissioner (Delany? Slive?) would consider adding national basketball brands because in a world where the NCAA doesn’t exist, they could prove to have significantly more value than they do today, or am I completely off on my understanding of what basketball could bring to the table without the NCAA?

Probably not as big of a deal now that the Big 12 will likely remain intact, but it would be good to know for when we go through this whole process again next year…

trey 11 years, 2 months ago

This is great data. Question... Does this include all ad revenue, to both network and cable providers. Or does "network" exclude cable (like espn). If the latter, this could distort reality; need to see ad revenue including cable to understand the compare.

ChicagoHawk04 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm not sure, unfortunately the site didn't go into great detail about the data sources (or I just didn't look hard enough), but I would think ESPN's ad revenue would be included since TV deals with them are structured as "ESPN / ABC" as they're both owned by Disney.

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

Gonna need some time to soak all this in... But I'll take a closer look in a while. Thanks!

Hank Cross 11 years, 2 months ago

That's great data. My guess though is you're right about the 'bang for the buck'. How many more people watched ND/MI and OU/FSU this year than will watch any regular season college BB game? Still, the revenue BB generates seems to have been overlooked. It also keeps a school's name in public during the second half of the school year.

Boston_Corbett 11 years, 2 months ago

"don’t understand why LJW uses “Kansas University,” let’s save this for another time)."

ha ha ha. that is a story of 70 plus years of publisher policy.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

Not just publisher policy. There is a reason it is abbreviated KU and not UK.

Ron Prichard 11 years, 2 months ago

I looked at this before when the contract for the NCAA tourney was announced last year that was worth something like $900 million per year. The problem is I believe that the contract is with the NCAA and not necessarily the schools. Although the schools see some of that money, the vast majority is used to fund the NCAA throughout the year in just about everything. Then, the remainder is divided among the member institutions equally or at least equitably.

With football, the NCAA doesn't see the money. It is the BCS, an affilliation of individual schools, that reaps the benefits of those contracts and advertising revenues. Further, that money is not divided equally between the schools or even the conferences, but rather more goes to the schools participating in the bowls, more goes to certain conferences, etc.

Thus, while basketball makes just as much money, most of that money is already gone. In football, the money goes to the schools and so the "cash grab" in football is all that really matters.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong on this, but that is my understanding based on some conversations I had on this last year when we were going through this same mess last time.

Steve Brown 11 years, 2 months ago

Matt after dust settles will UT have more or less power in B12>? Seems as if Pac10 just took away one Longhorn Ace in the hole. Could B12 have a mtg. to vote on equality and splitting revenues before ATM relinquishes it's votes?

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm guessing less power but more stability. And, although that will be difficult for them, I'm also guessing UT will swallow its pride and sign on the dotted line. This is the best place for them to be. And they won't find a better deal in terms of the total package of advantages they have in any other conference.

As for the voting, I believe any voting that takes place now or any time in the near future would NOT include A&M. That ship has sailed...

Steve Brown 11 years, 2 months ago

I know just dreaming of when FDR stacked the US Supreme court with more jurors to get his votes.

How about this compromise: say B12 has 9 schools divide LHNTV and Final Four payouts and Bowl game payouts 10 ways, each school gets a share and the home school gets 2 shares. Just an idea.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

How about tu gets to stay in the Big 12 and keep all $15M from the renamed Big 12 Network for the 1st year, but after that the contract $ are split evenly between all the conference members. That way tu gets something for its work on the LHN, and the conference gets the stability it needs down the road. Might even get an increase in the total value of the contract by including all the members.

Based on what I've read to date, one thing seems certain -- right now the LHN is an albatross around ESPN's neck because (1) tu can't find enough stuff to put on the bloody thing, and (2) it hasn't gained that many subscribers. I think ESPN would like the idea, especially since it would help save the golden-egg-laying goose that is the Big 12.

Come on, Big 8 schools, Tech and Baylor -- gang up on the bully and get him to agree!

[..."Do not Forsake Me oh My Darlin" playin' in the background as the townspeople back up Bart and the Waco Kid against Taggart and the rest of Lamarr's thugs!]

DallasJayhawk1 11 years, 2 months ago

I had Big 12 at 40% last week--I now say 100%. You can take that to Vegas.

I'm glad Pac did what they did and kind of slowed this whole "everyone will be going to a 16 team super conference". There's been some vocal concern (ie Boeheim at Syracuse) about all of this and for good reason. Now, we take care of in-house concerns, Beebie will be removed, maybe expand a little and move on.

jay381 11 years, 2 months ago

Hopefully we dodged a bullet on this round. I would say it is imperative for the future we build on the upgrades of the football facilities and program. We made significant progress when improvements were make to the football practice and conditioning facilities. It was only a few years ago we competed and won an Orange Bowl BCS game. I know more debacles like we saw last week on the field just cannot continue into the future. With the importance of football revenue in now and in the future frankly no first class conference will be interested in KU without at least a competitive football program and facilities. We just have to be better prepared and have an offer that includes a viable football program. I would say this is a very important year for all of KU not just football. Football just cannot continue to be an embarrassment to the entire university shown on TV as it was last week. We do not have to be OK AL or TX but for goodness sake we have demonstrated we can be competitive with mid level programs in major conferences in the past. AD Z sure has his work cut out for him as a new AD. I wish him success in his pursuit of a good program. He certainly cannot be blamed for the state of the program only months into his tenure for the current condition. He does have an opportunity to make a good name for himself going forward.

Note this is not blaming anyone or coach. It is just my evaluation of what must happen. If, in the opinion of the AD, it is going to take changes in coaching to accomplish the task it is better to do it now than to continue to bleed. If on the other hand in the opinion of the AD we have the correct coach then he must be given sufficient support to succeed. We do not have years to make that decision. Again not an easy job to make that evaluation but it does come with the job. The status quo is just not sustainable.

LogicMan 11 years, 2 months ago

"Hopefully we dodged a bullet on this round. "

Yes, but it's a classic "death by a thousand cuts".

We lost two great members last year, and at least one this year. And we haven't replaced them. So what does next year hold?

Steve Hillyer 11 years, 2 months ago

Agreed, not only improve football program but entire athletic dept would be nice, other than men's bball, we are not competitive at anything

Benjamin Piehler 11 years, 2 months ago

Few thoughts.... First, I'd like to imagine Beebe didn't sleep well last night.

IF the B1G ever wanted MIzzou and KU, now is the best time for them to act, the Big XII is still weakened but in the coming weeks it could easily get stronger with the removal of Beebe, a potential BYU invite and hopefully a vote to increase the fee to leave. No promises they act though.

The Big East is similarly trying to rebound, and I've heard they're considering adding Navy and Air Force, but I've also heard Temple and ECU could be targets also. I'm thinking the Big XII could have a real shot at luring some of the better Big East/MWC teams if they play their cards right.

I'm hoping we talk to TCU, maybe Houston, Memphis or Rice from C-USA or maybe Cincy or Louisville.

I really hope Bill Self had a chance to talk with Perry since the conference is looking like it will survive...

Benjamin Piehler 11 years, 2 months ago

Also, for the record.... we really need an "edit" function on here....

Angus0199 11 years, 2 months ago

I told everyone a few days ago that the PAC was out-And they are Believe it or not, the B1G doesn't want KU or MU. They want K-State and will take KU to get KState. That's not going to happen. I know it's hard to believe, but KU isn't the center of the universe, or even Kansas. The State isn't going to let the 2 schools seperate.Period. It is B12. We may add a few schools over a minor period in time as things solidify.

Marcia Parsons 11 years, 2 months ago

Are you sure about that Angus? I thought they only wanted AAU schools. Why would they be so desperate to get Kansas State?

Angus0199 11 years, 2 months ago

Sorry guys, I'll stop about this, was really just trying to add some inside info to Matt's excellent reporting is all. The only reason B1G was interested in KSU was due to $1bill Fed annual research funding for Homeland Security. It's not like the B1G is wanting KSU if th B12 they did w/NU last year. I appologize if I haven't made that clear in past posts. They're not trying to snag them now, esp. if the B12 remains.

They were only interested if the B12 was to disolve. Political pressure from congress to keep the 2 schools together. Our state officials were never going to let KU go to the PAC w/out KSU.

Manginorh...I promise, I will not go on about this anymore, was just trying to pass on some info is all. I am glad nobody is going PAC though...B12 or B1G was and is still the only option. Both are great.

Kristen Downing 11 years, 2 months ago

What about Missouri? Are they still standing strong? Will OU/OSU look to the SEC seeing how much work the BIG12 has in front of them? Not to mention that the Big East has circled the wagons and aiming at the military schools. They have already met and do not have to replace their Commissioner. Any updates on the fox in the chicken coop(MU)?

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

Posting a link momentarily that addresses your question...

DanHogan95 11 years, 2 months ago

Have you heard anything specifically addressing OU going to the SEC alone? That would fix the SEC's "13" problem and make them like like a real power. For OU, it would mean an escape hatch that I'm guessing they really, really want. Are the politics of dividing OU/OSU enough to stand in the way?

When they demanded equal share and Beebe out, I figured they'd have options other then Pac-12.

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

Yes. They're not interested. Never have been and won't start looking that way now.

They thought they were a lock for the Pac and things changed... That's why they made the demands and now they're left to come crawling back to the Big 12.

Won't be too hard to do, though. Many Sooners didn't want to leave in first place.

JayHawk_from_SWKS 11 years, 2 months ago

Hi Matt,

Great work with all you have done! With the Big East football teams stating last night they are committed to staying together and looking aggressively to expand, I am guessing the chances of a Big 12/Big East football merger is no longer on the table? Given that the Big East football schools wouldn't add too much to the conference competitively or monetarily, it probably isn't a huge loss. But, it would have been ironic to go from a conference on the brink of extinction to the first 16-team super conference.

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 2 months ago

Matt, I keep hearing the Big XII wouldn't expand more into Texas. Is that true?

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

Absolutely. As we've seen, things can change, but I've heard this for two years now from some strong sources...

I don't see TCU having a chance. Right now they're debating between staying in new-look Big East or returning to the MWC.

I don't think Houston fits the league.

SMU is the only one I think has a chance and that's purely because of money and SMU's huge endowment. Don't think they fit either, though. Worse fit than Houston in a lot of ways.

Joe Joseph 11 years, 2 months ago

I might kill myself if Perry Ellis chooses KSU.

dynamitehawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Would Pickens liken Texas' windfall in the LHN as the second largest transfer of wealth in human history... behind foreign oil?!? We need to reorganize as the "Wind Farm" league, with equal distribution. The money is abundant. I love this guy!

Eric J. Baker 11 years, 2 months ago

Matt, I just want to say that your coverage of this whole ordeal has been stellar. The commentary and analysis, the excellent attention paid to other schools' interests and points of view, and the accurate reporting of relevant info amid a sea of wild speculation and rumors has all been incredible. You should win an award for it. Seriously.

DanHogan95 11 years, 2 months ago

Hear hear!!

I'm an MSU guy so I don't track KU all that often. Please consider starting a blog covering conference inter-working. We've seen over the last few years that it should remain relevant for some time.

nckujayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

What exciting news can we expect to here from the KBOR meeting tomorrow?

LogicMan 11 years, 2 months ago

Probably is a non-event, for now, unless KU or KSU has an offer they can't refuse. So they'll talk, and appropriately make a statement of support for the Big XII and the two schools staying together.

jgkojak 11 years, 2 months ago


WINNERS: 1. The ACC - added two expansion-market teams (PA and NY) that are academic and geographic fits. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't go ahead and grab UConn and make an offer to Rutgers before this is all settled.

  1. Kansas St, Iowa St and Baylor - they got their parking validated for a few more years.

  2. Oklahoma - they got what they wanted: Texas reigned in and eating more than a little crow.

  3. The Big 10: they really didn't want to talk expansion until 2015 when their TV deal expires. The next round is on them.

  4. Student athletes: the worst-case travel scenerios didn't come to be.

LOSERS: 1. The Pac 12: I'm not sure they'll ever be able to reel in the Big 4 again.

  1. Texas = humbled. Their only reasonable next stop other than sticking w/the B12 is Indy status - and would we really care as long as we kept OU/OSU in the fold? Nope.

  2. K-State, Iowa St and Baylor: didn't like this year's physical. Have some fodder for boosters to upgrade facilities.

  3. The SEC: if the B12 survives, Mizzou is lost. If Mizzou switches conferences, it will be to the B10 in 4 years.

  4. WVU: who knew? No one wants them? Proud upper-echelon member of the Big East found out they have more in common with New Mexico State than they do with Penn St.

Steve Brown 11 years, 2 months ago

just like Esanola needed big brother Napolean until he invaded and put his brother on the throne in Madrid. Then they called Wellington to come to their aid.

simialr story with Stalin and the Huns. History repeats, be careful to whom you hook your wagon

You have a point the conf. less UT would be a smaller pie, some of us contend an fair share of something smaller is better than allowing the Bevo to cut the pie and dish it.

rob4lb 11 years, 2 months ago

You may want to add Tech and OSU to the losers only in that their subpar academics has become part of a national conversation.

Angus0199 11 years, 2 months ago

Not sure why you're not adding us in w/KSU, ISU, or Baylor? We were luckily hitched to KSUto the B1G, it wasn't the other way around brother. Nobody was beating down our door to join them. Look at past posts, we were like the fat chick that hadn't gotten asked to the prom

Sam Constance 11 years, 2 months ago

Care to provide a single, solitary news article or reputable source of ANY kind for this latest bit of KSU insecurity-inspired ridiculousness?

KSU is a worse fit in the B1G than Nebraska was, and they don't have a fraction of the football power cache that the Cornhuskers bring to the table.

KSU should be thanking Baylor for having the balls to stick their neck out and fight for the only BCS conference that wants them.

Angus0199 11 years, 2 months ago

You're right about NU being a better fit w/out doubt. The comment about KSU and the B1G has been on other posts over the weeks. About a close friend working between Plum Island and the NFAB @ KSU and the other part between politicians in KS. Not from press sources. 3 days ago I said the PAC was out...and they are. We all should thank Baylor for sticking up for the B12. Tell me what conferences were beating down our door??? BTW I know if we were the only BCS school in the state it would aid our program, but we have to get over that from happening.

Sam Constance 11 years, 2 months ago

"3 days ago I said the PAC was out...and they are."

Well, then. I guess your word is gospel and you are CLEARLY "plugged in" to this issue, since you guessed right on the PAC. Hey everyone! Listen up--we have an insider in our midst. No more guesswork necessary! Woo-hoo!

As far as listing other conferences that were "beating down our door", any kind of information to that end is pure speculation. It's still speculation as to what was really going on for schools who played this out in the public spotlight, let alone for schools that played their cards close to the chest.

All I'm saying is that KSU being on the top of the B1G list--while theoretically POSSIBLE--is about as unlikely a scenario as has been described through all this mess, so there's a bit more imperative for some supporting information.

Personally, I think all of the bold "predictions" and assertions from fans following this issue are a waste of time. Just thought yours was especially absurd.

utahjayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

+1, KSU ahead of us as a desirable...........puhlease.

Steve Brown 11 years, 2 months ago

suspect UConn recruits against UNC and DUke and would some cleanup to do before allowed to bring 'dem boots into the ACC. the world is round and you reap what you sow.......

Marcia Parsons 11 years, 2 months ago

I read an article (maybe CBSportsline) saying Calhoun was pushing to move to the ACC.

Marcia Parsons 11 years, 2 months ago

I read an article (maybe CBSportsline) saying Calhoun was pushing to move to the ACC.

Kyle Helmer 11 years, 2 months ago

Matt, you have done amazing work on all of this. I will be glad when this mess is over, but I will miss checking in on your reports every hour. Truly top notch work and you are to me commended!

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

Thanks for the kind words khelm9...

I had a hard time walking away and shutting it all down last night. Been hooked to this thing for a long, long time now.

I have to admit, I'll miss it too. Not too much though :-)

Thanks again! I'll see if I can keep your interest with some KU-related blogs of a similar nature.

pepper_bar 11 years, 2 months ago

This blog was the best resource I could find on any sports news site to keep me updated on new realignment news and rumors as they came out. Nice job, Matt.

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

That was the goal. Glad it was successful. Thanks a bunch!!!

LogicMan 11 years, 2 months ago

Matt: I agree! Any data on where your hits are coming from? E.g., what percent from each of the Big XII's hometowns?

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

I'll check into that... Would be interesting to see. I do know that I received emails from all across the country.

Dallas/Texas Oklahoma D.C. California New Jersey Arizona

Just off the top of my head. Pretty cool to see how many people are following the blog.

Also, the previous record for the blog was 48,200 visitors in a single day. On Monday, we shattered that record with more than 71,000 visiting.

Haven't seen yesterday's numbers yet but it's going to be interesting.

Thanks to all of you!!!!

dynamitehawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Man... the dance, dance, revolution and electronic cig folks must be happy with all those clicks. Not that it needs repeating from me but well done, sir.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

Not just Big 12, but also other conference hometowns, too. For example, have seen several Michigan State and Chicago area fans commenting, how many more have just been reading?

Great job, Matt, thanks again!

97jhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

I actually commend OU on their efforts to stand up to the Big 12 bully, otherwise known as UT. The B1G has a good system and if, after all this, the Big 12 can somehow mimic their system due to OU's efforts, KU comes out looking good in the deal and being rewarded financially, assuming things can be evened out. I agree, Bebee must go. Things have been chaotic and the Big 12 deserves some stability.

I know that UT and TCU don't get along, or something like that, but I think the Big 12 should add BYU, TCU, and one other team. If we could swap Texas A&M for TCU that would be a good get on some levels I would think. Maybe OU can strongarm the bully into allowing TCU to join us as well. They should've made that one of their concessions too.

Everyone should definitely praise OU should it all work out. Why let one school run the whole gammit? Equality keeps everyone happy. The B1G has a number of bottom feeders in athletics (MN Goofers, Inidiana (football), Northwestern at times) and then they have those at the top of the food chain, yet they still seem to get along just fine rather than a bunch of Hatfield and McCoys like the Big 12.

This transformation, if it happens, could be the best thing to happen to the Big12 since it became the Big 12. Best part, KU looks good coming out of this deal and the Red River Rivalry just went through the roof with animosity there. The meaning to that game just got bigger and better. UT should like that........

texashawk10 11 years, 2 months ago

TCU also seems to be the only team that can win in Norman.

LogicMan 11 years, 2 months ago

"I know that UT and TCU don't get along"

If they can stand up to UT, that might just be the best reason for adding TCU.

Daniel Kennamore 11 years, 2 months ago

BYU, Louisville, West Virginia. In that order.

Michael Maris 11 years, 2 months ago

Kevin Harlan just summed it up (on 810 Radio with Soren Petro), Texas is the Mafia of College Athletics.

That is so very true.

Daniel Kennamore 11 years, 2 months ago

Again, top notch work over the past weeks Matt. Your blog has been my first and last check everyday on this issue.

So now that it looks like everyone is taking a breath, do you have any idea who the league might target besides BYU.

West Virginia and Louisville look ripe for the plucking...

lama 11 years, 2 months ago

OU looks silly, just like Mizzou did last year. The Pac-12 didn't want them without Texas -- and with OSU.

Steve Brown 11 years, 2 months ago

not exactly, OU didn't want to go without some regional pals to play on short trips, hence the last sunday mtg. in Norman with Longhorns. Pac said we won't take schools that don't support "equal" sharing, read the statement, then decide.

kureader 11 years, 2 months ago

Zenger deserves some credit for having the discipline to keep his mouth shut, while other Big 12 Officials paraded in front of the cameras like a bunch of peacocks.

Tait deserves a raise and a promotion. His coverage of these issues was, and continues to be, just outstanding.

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

Completely agree on the first part. Thanks on the second part!!!

Daniel Kennamore 11 years, 2 months ago

Zenger and BGL dodged a bullet on this one, this is in now way a credit to their actions (or lack there of).

Michael Maris 11 years, 2 months ago

This league will NOT survive. Missouri, OU and Okie State will exit to the SEC.

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 2 months ago

Agree...all I see is that the LHN is not sharing revenues still, so what did we really accomplish?

I think MU/OU/OSU are joining A&M

KU & UT are headed either to the ACC or Big Ten.

Matthew Pyle 11 years, 2 months ago

If the Longhorn Network is not dissolved or they do not at least start sharing revenue equally, we will have deja vu all over again once the Pac 12 and other conferences decide to expand. I'm not sure this is good news until we understand what the details look like. In the mean time, KU should continue to look out for themselves; certainly if the Big 10 wanted them I would jump!

tahawk81 11 years, 2 months ago

Great job on the coverage of this ordeal. This was by far the best up to the minute information I could find. Thanks alot of doing this, you did a great job.

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

You betcha. Thanks for the comments. I'll stay on top of it, but let's hope it's all settling down!

Angus0199 11 years, 2 months ago

The B1G stayed quiet just because of the likelyhood that the B12 would stay together. Didn't want to be responsible for the fall of the B12.

The B12 is going to stay together. I say we need to start being proactive

1: UT relinquishes the LHN and now it’s the BIG 12 Network-If not they're out-They can go anywhere, but they can't stay here

2: We hire a new Commish. Beebe's out like a light-he doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. We need somebody w/leadership, vision, and Strength

3: $50 million exit fees

Would look like this: KSU, KU, ISU, MU, OU, OSU, Baylor Possibility of UT, TTU, A&M-although not happening Depending on if any leave, we add BYU-likely anyway, TCU, Houston, and/or SMU, Maybe Boise State.

Benjamin Piehler 11 years, 2 months ago

50 mil might be a bit high for an exit fee, but I'm in favor of raising it to at least 20. Add even revenue sharing and I think we'd be sitting pretty.

Angus0199 11 years, 2 months ago

Let's compromise on $25 million and get started w/the development.

trey 11 years, 2 months ago

In thinking thru this, even with the PAC's decision last night, I bet we're NOT done here at all. Some significant things have to happen for the Big12 to survive as a "stable" conference, as outlined in the first scenario below. If they don't (and I think there may be a good chance they don't), we could be back to the expansion game (2nd two scenarios) in a matter of days...

Scenario A - Big12 lives as a "stable" long-term conference Requires... New commissioner (Beebe will be sacrificed). Requires... Equal revenue sharing (a give by Texas). Requires... LHN transforms into Big12 Network (another give by Texas). Requires... Adding 3 schools to get back to 12 (are there three good candidates?).

Scenario B - Texas doesn't give, OU+OSU approach SEC, expansion starts up again. SEC... Adds A&M, MU, OU, OSU (football dominence gets even bigger). ACC... Adds Syracuse, Pitt, UConn, Rutgers (owns the east coast). PAC... Adds Texas, TTech, KU, K-State (Texas complies to PAC rules). B1G... Sits on sideline waiting for ND (has few other expansion opportunities).

Scenario C - B1G wakes up, doesn't want to miss best expansion targets B1G... Adds Texas, MU, KU, ND (Homerun, adds monster brands). SEC... Adds A&M, OU, OSU, West Virginia (likely #16 target if MU to B1G). ACC... Adds Syracuse, Pitt, UConn, Rutgers (Homerun, owns East coast, best hoops). PAC... Misses the boat, stays at 12 (or adds TTech, K-State, Iowa State, BYU).

The interesting dynamic here is that the PAC and B1G may eventually have to fight it out. There just are not 8 strong/no-brainer expansion candidates for them to share. If Scenario A doesn't materialize, best news for KU would be...

OU+OSU to SEC (eliminates two competitors for PAC). Rutgers+UConn to ACC (eliminates one competitor for B1G).

Benjamin Piehler 11 years, 2 months ago Rumor is.... and I emphasize rumor. That OU, OSU and Mizzou to the SEC isn't happening

flyingfinn 11 years, 2 months ago

While there's still a plethora or questions out there, regarding the breathing a sigh of relief, how do we know that all this expansion fervor won't blow back up if/when the Big 12 tried to expand? If they stop at BYU then it's moot, since they're independent, but if we try to get a Big East team then is there any indication that the other conferences won't start crapping their pants again and accepting all the rats jumping ship?

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

It all depends. If the ACC gets UConn and Rutgers to go with Syracuse and Pitt before any other moves happen, the Big East is dead as far as a football conference. WVU is notably already looking (and has been turned down by the SEC and the ACC), and UConn and Rutgers have both escalated their conversations with the ACC. Reportedly even Notre Dame is interested in the ACC (instead of the B1G), in part because that looks to be where the best of the Big East is going to end up.
(Aside: It would be a trip if ND got the #16 ACC spot instead of Rutgers, but that would leave the B1G with a chance to gain a foothold in the NYC and NJ markets, which I do not think would be a wise move for the ACC. Bringing in Rutgers may not be a stellar offensive move by the ACC, but it just may be one defensively if it keeps the B1G out of NY/NJ.)

So -- let's hope the ACC makes the moves most easterners seem to think will happen with UConn and Rutgers. That way the Big 12 restocks with BYU, South Florida and either Cincinnati or Louisville, and the Big 12 is not the catalyst for additional realignment, but the savior conference offering those Big East teams a chance to remain BCS relevant -- and moving our market footprint into lucrative, growing southern markets besides Texas.

LogicMan 11 years, 2 months ago

There's a story out there that the Big East was about to land Navy, and go after Air Force, before the stuff hit the fan. And if they got Army too, ND would have considered joining the Big East for football, IMHO.

ND is royally ticked at the B1G from decades ago, so it makes sense they'd look elsewhere.

lothario64118 11 years, 2 months ago

I've always wondered why the hell doesn't that mascot have a full fledged costume? It's just a head. WTF is that!?

Benjamin Piehler 11 years, 2 months ago

Maybe a genetic experiment that went horribly wrong.... probably in a scenario like "The Fly"?

Sam Constance 11 years, 2 months ago

They should dress him in camo pants and top, so then it would just look like a floating powercat head (aka, a wildcat head that looks like it ran nose-first into a concrete wall, flattening it's facial features).

A floating powercat head might actually be intimidating.

FlintHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

hawkinator, that was Grrrr-eat. Hate to say it, but "Props to the Tiggers!" Even the pawned KU was hilarious.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

That's great stuff, thanks for the link!

af13 11 years, 2 months ago

Seriously great. I think this is the most coherent and truthful piece I've seen about the entire alignment mess.

Steve Brown 11 years, 2 months ago

Matt, president of UT just put out a statement they may have to consider new form of revenue sharing....ding dong the witch is dead the wicked witch may be wounded at least, grab the ruby slippers.

Angus0199 11 years, 2 months ago

I said it before, the PAC is out for the foreseeable future. Sorry. As long as the B12 is present, KU and KSU aren't going anywhere. The B1G isn't going to be responsible for the B12 going down. They jumped the too far w/NU last time and don't want that reputation.
On a personal note, I say we kick UT's ass out or take the LHN as the B12 and revenue share the hell out of them.

Kristen Downing 11 years, 2 months ago

You have to give Baylor some credit. They slowed everything down a bit and really were ridiculed for it. We may not be able to admit it, but I think KU had just as much to lose. I don't buy we had an invite out there and our football looks much worse than theirs right now.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

Have to admit I never thought I'd say this, but "Thank you, Kenneth Starr!"

FarSideHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

I'd rather Big12 just dissolve now and all the teams move to a 'stable' conference. Don't want to live through this BS again next year.

Kristen Downing 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm telling you, MU is not done screwing up(or screwing the conference). Can somebody tell them to shut the bleep up?!

KUAlum2000 11 years, 2 months ago

Pinkel is right on point with this. We all now the conference is screwed up, he's just one of the figure heads that is saying it. Calling it as he sees it. Much rather have that than what Texas AD is saying. That's much more destructive if you ask me.

KUAlum2000 11 years, 2 months ago

Pinkel is right on point with this. We all know the conference is screwed up, he's just one of the figure heads that is saying it. Calling it as he sees it. Much rather have that than what Texas AD is saying. That's much more destructive if you ask me.

FlintHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

If Beeeebeee steps down immediately and Neinas is appointed Interim Commish, he will kick a*s and fix us for a few years. Rated one of the 10 most powerful people in college football (Orlando Sentinel)

AlecRaenos 11 years, 2 months ago

Honestly, after Dodd's comments about the LHN being non-negotiable, I'd rather the Big 12 dissolve and all remining teams reform a conference except Texas. Let them take their non-negotiating Longhorn Network somewhere else or go Independent. You have to dissolve the conference first, so no one pays exit fees and then you go to each and every member not named Texas about a new conference.

Texas is a greedy cancer. They are not to be trusted.

Stephen Johnson 11 years, 2 months ago

AlexRaenos - you said it. UT destroyed the SW conference and they've nearly destroyed the Big 12. UT is like and abusive spouse. Domineering, egotistical and abusive.

Angus0199 11 years, 2 months ago

Truer words have never been spoken. He say, "thank you for your service, but you are not wanted here. We hope you and your network will be very happy somewhere other than here" and shut the door on their ass.

Pbbut 11 years, 2 months ago

We've known all along that football is driving the bus, but the Notre Dame article shows just how powerfully. The Irish have gone to great lengths to upgrade their basketball, men and women, and put good teams on the floor the last few years. In many respects their basketball teams were more competitive against good opposition than the football. According to the Tribune, they seem unconcerned about the quality of the teams that they've lost in the Big East. Replaced by Air Force, Navy? That's a reach.

tman1991 11 years, 2 months ago

can someone explain this revenue sharing?? 1st tier vs 2nd tier vs 3rd tier??

AlecRaenos 11 years, 2 months ago

There are tiers of games rated by national appeal. OU/UT Red River Rivalry is a 1st tier game. Bedlam is a first tier game. Tech vs Missouri is a 2nd tier game. Two good programs but neither having national appeal. Kansas vs anyone is a 3rd tier game. No national appeal because we suck. Small markets, etc.

Same goes for basketball. Except for a few non-conference games, all of Kansas games are first or second tier games. They will be on TV.

Non-revenue sports are all third tier. At least this is my understanding.

tman1991 11 years, 2 months ago

thanks.. and yes KU vs western-northern-sw michigan would be a 4th tier game since WNSW Michigan would be favored in football!!

Ron Prichard 11 years, 2 months ago

Actually, the tiers are the contracts, not the national appeal. First tier gets first choice of the games. Then second tier, then third tier. If I understand the new contracts, Fox is first tier, ESPN second, then LHN. First, second, third. The money for first tier is obviously the most, going down each level. Another example of a third tier would be the Jayhawk Network that televises the basketball games that are not picked up by ESPN, CBS, etc. Those are the games that are shown locally but not regionally or nationally.

KU actually makes quite a bit of third tier money from their contract. I think they were third in the BIG XII last year.

texashawk10 11 years, 2 months ago

ESPN/ABC is first tier, Fox Sports is second tier, and anything else is third tier.

lothario64118 11 years, 2 months ago

i'm going to say out. give it a couple of days. they'll slide out in the middle of the night....

AlecRaenos 11 years, 2 months ago

If the Big 12 votes on the new bylaws, and every one votes that there can be no individual networks, and it passes say 8-1, what then? Texas leaves? Im sure they get an invite somewhere but wherever they go it will be without the LHN won't it? So, all you have to do is pass the bylaw which makes TLN null and void in the conference and Texas has no choice. Either leave and get rid of the longhorn network or stay and get rid of the longhorn network.

LogicMan 11 years, 2 months ago

"null and void"

I don't think that would be legal, retroactively. But it could be enforceable on new or renewed contracts. Still a lot of years on the current LHN contract.

UT needs to learn to play fair. If they were left out of a major conference, wouldn't it be grand if everyone shunned them? No games until they learn!

jgkojak 11 years, 2 months ago

Sounds like he is saying when Texas plays Prairie View in the noncon in basketball or Texas plays New Mexico St noncon in football- they keep that revenue but share if Texas plays North Carolina or Texas plays LSU. Fair enough.

Steve Reigle 11 years, 2 months ago

• Dodds on UT's image: "We are who we are. People say what they say. The outcome is the outcome. We're proud of ourselves."

How arrogant. It's time for Texas to leave the Big12, voluntarily or otherwise. We have no room for such arrogance.

Bear86 11 years, 2 months ago

F-DeLoss Dodds & F-Texas! Will the rest of the remaining Big 12 schools (except Baylor and Oklahoma) grow some balls and tell these jack offs in Austin to get in the conference equally or get the F-Out! Enough is Enough. KU sits on their ass, mean while Mizzou get's an offer from the SEC? Sad day's to be a Jayhawk.

Richard Payton 11 years, 2 months ago

With Oklahoma University back and their demands not rejected by Texas University the Big 12 becomes stable. Before other schools join the Big 12 the new Commissioner would need to be named. Could Perkins name pop up? Most likely would but would he want it? A new leader might want the Big 12 to be the first 16 team super conference so to beat the Big Ten to the punch before the 2015 contract comes due.

Justin Lindsley 11 years, 2 months ago

After the last two weeks of absulute insanity. We have come full circle and are back where we started. Unbelievable!!!!! I think it is the best place to be though. I hope we pick up a couple of left over Big east teams Louisville, West Virginia, and grab BYU. That should shore things up for a while!!! Rock Chalk!

royaljayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Boy, at this point I think if I were OU OSU and MU and had a chance to head to the SEC and leave Texas behind once and for all in this deal, I'd be on the first flight out! Just my thoughts though..

dynamitehawk 11 years, 2 months ago

OK. Deep breath. Things are going to be OK for a while. Conference realignment will be back at some point, and some folks have pointed out a very important truth.

It's time to get busy, and by busy, I mean start making some babies, Kansas. We need a boost in population for TV people to take us seriously, and it's up to us to get it done. Fellow Jayhawkers, I call upon each of you to go home tonight and get it done. We can literally double the population of the state in a few years, and double the number of fans, and TV viewers. Hell, that means that we'll statistically have TWO Perry Ellis's to fight over down the road.

Plan Dynamite is in effect.

Get busy.

LogicMan 11 years, 2 months ago

Umm ... the better half might have a fit with that one.

Or another approach, we invade a neighboring state and that way acquire their population. Colorado wouldn't put up much of a fight, and already has a chunk of old Kansas territory. :-)

Andy Tweedy 11 years, 2 months ago

Would that bring CU back into the Big XII? After all, the regents would like all the state schools in one conference.

FLJHK 11 years, 2 months ago

History suggests we invade Missouri. They've got us outnumbered 3 to 1, but we can outsmart them easily. I like our chances.

Ron Prichard 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm telling my wife it's her duty as a Kansan!! Thank you dynamite!!

JayDocMD 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm with you Dynamite. In fact, I mentioned the same thing in response to Funhawk on a previous thread from Keegan's "Leftovers on the Menu for KU." I just didn't know to call it Plan Dynamite. (see below)

Funhawk (anonymous) says…

Well, if we could increase the state's population, we would have more TV sets and, therefore, no longer be a small market.... September 19, 2011 at 10:23 a.m.

JayDocMD (anonymous) replies…

"Well, if we could increase the state's population..."

This. I think not enough people are focusing on this. With all the moaning and whining, here is something that we can actually do something about.

I propose that immediately all available men and women in the state of Kansas begin procreating. This is our only chance. In 18 years and 9 months we will have a huge bump in the target demographic and KS will be in a much stronger position for negotiation.

I've considered every other angle, and there is just no other way. No more talking. It's time for action. For the salvation of Jayhawk-kind... get busy.

dynamitehawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Promise I didn't steal your idea, but I think I glanced over this exchange (only been abbot 7,000 post on this topic...)

Let's officially call it JayDocMD's doin' it like bunnies plan?

JayDocMD 11 years, 2 months ago

No worries. Let's compromise with The DynaDoc Plan.

AlecRaenos 11 years, 2 months ago

KU is not a founding member of the AAU. In fact, Missouri was accepted before Kansas was. Kansas joined in 1909, Missouri in 1908. It was founded in 1900.

dynamitehawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Someone did and their ID and post were immediately deleted. When your ID is axed your comments go bye bye too: see dynomitehawk. :)

lama 11 years, 2 months ago

Big 12 should add BYU immediately, and make a serious play for Louisville and West Virginia.

JayHawkFanToo 11 years, 2 months ago

Matt, First of all, a heartfelt thank you for all the hard work you have put in the last few days keeping us fans informed on this ongoing saga; your hard work is greatly appreciated.

I have a couple of issues that I would like to have your take on:

There was a widely circulated article (New York Times) that estimated the number of fans for each school based on the Google search of "College Basketball" and College Football." I consider my self a big fan of college sports and having visited on this topic with many other like-minded fans, I cannot think of a single time where I goggled based on those two search terms. As a true fan, 99% of the time I know exactly where to go when I need information on college sports, and any "googling" I do is mostly to get information on a specific player whose stats I no longer remember, and likely from a school other than the ones I normally follow. I would guess that I am typical of most die hard college sports fans...which in turn would make that analysis moot.

Second, I posted a few times that in all of this mess, three groups got completely left out; the student athletes, the coaches and most importantly, the fans. I have been amazed how some posters thought the PAC was a good option...maybe for revenue purposes for the university, but as far as the three groups I mentioned, it was big time losing proposition. On the original Big 12, we had six schools (NU, ISU, MU, KSU, OU, OSU) where we effectively had one day trips which could be arranged on a spur-of-the moment, if we chose to go see KU play there. PAC away games would require 2 and even 3 day trips, considerable expense, and considerable prior planning; joining a conference in the East Coast would not be that much better.

In the last couple of days I have heard a couple of elected officials bring up this issue. What is the chance that the Federal Government eventually gets involved and passes the equivalent of the "Sports" Sherman Act, that dictates the maximum size and geographical extent (say, no more that 2 time zones, or a maximum distance) that sports conferences must follow to prevent a monopoly of college sports by a few "super conferences?

Again, thanks for the hard work.

LAJayhawk 11 years, 2 months ago

"We are who we are. People say what they say. The outcome is the outcome."

It is what it is. Gotta do whatcha gotta do.....

And other simple-minded drivel meant to dismiss others while not actually giving any kind of an argument.

"We are who we are." Yes, and that's the problem. Maybe address it instead of shrugging it off like a 13 year old unable to properly express himself.

TheColonel 11 years, 2 months ago

This mindset of today that compromise and getting along is king needs to go away. Sometimes difference of opinions insists that you part ways. We all function this way in our personal lives, why in the heck should business be any different???

While there stood be a lot of losers in the arrangement, It does not say positive things about the self-image of the Big 12 Remanants (KU, KSU, ISU, MU and Baylor) that we rejoice at the salvation of the Big 12 and an opportunity to continue lock-step in being used by UT in a disparate revenue sharing situation.

The Big 12 is and will continue to be a toxic atmosphere, more so than ever. Can you imagine what UT athletes are going to have to endure on the road going forward?

The schools really need to man up, and vow that although they risk financial loss, they are willing to abandon Texas for the sake of individual integrity. UT's aggressive self interests are their prerogative, and while appropriate in an independent scenario, are inappropriate when you are part of a team of schools within a conference.

KU and MU should continue to explore their options and get the heck out of this situation once and for all. Nebraska should be commended for doing so and as such brought themselves stability and security for the next hundred years.

142466 11 years, 2 months ago

I agree. And in business, especially, the parties do part ways when the contract or joint venture is no longer commercially advantagious. BCS college sports is business, big business.

The Big12 better have learned this by now. The conference must change the legal terms of its sports joint venture, so it is clearly advantageous for its members to stick together instead of continually, and in public, wandering off.

So the Big12 needs to do at least these five things: 1. New Commissioneer. 2. UT must make major TV concessions or leave. 3. Promptly return the Big 12 to 12, with two divisions. Can't stay at nine or ten. 4. Develop a credible plan to expand to 16 and pursue that plan so that we can expand, proactively, as soon as it becomes apparent that 16 is the target for the other BCS conferences. (It might be apparent already). 5. Stiffer financial penalties for leaving.

Be realistic in pursuing and admitting the 3 new members. Same goes for pursuing the additional 4. We will not find new members east of K.C. No B10 or SEC school would be interested. And no PAC school would be interested, either. Face reality. Any school that would leave any of those 3 conferences for the Big12 would be downgrading. Do not pursue teams on the east cost, either. Geography is important. Adding team(s) that are geographically seperated from the main group will always be inherently destabilizing.

So the additional members must come from the Mountain Time Zone and Texas. The names of the potential new members are apparent: BYU, Nevada, Boise, Wyoming, Colo State, Air Force, New Mexico, TCU, and Houston. You can tinker with the list a little bit, but basically, that's it.

When expanding, do not be perfectionists. Remember: Northwestern is no good in any sport. Penn State only plays football well. KU and Kentucky only play basketball well. Some members, like Washington State or KSU, don't do much of anything real well. UCLA is a commuter school. And all the BCS conferences have, academically, permanent top tiers and bottom tiers. They won't admit it, but everyone knows it's so.

Fortunately, the mountain states are growing. States to our east are not. Just by joining our league the mountain school(s) and Texas school(s) will naturally, over time, improve in sports and in academics. And they'll likely be happy, loyal, members because they will be upgrading.

Only if the B12 succeeds in doing these things will it survive. Otherwise the market place will eliminate it. Hunting season in the Big12 has probably ended for now. But the PAC, Big10, and SEC will return next season to the same hunting grounds. We'd better quickly make the Big12 much less vulnerable, and become good hunters ourselves. Survival of the fittest: true in nature and in business.

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 2 months ago

• Dodds on sharing LHN/TV revenue: Says B12 will share first and second tier TV rights equally but sharing third-tier (LHN) is non-negotiable.

Isn't that the original problem?

I don't think this is over.

Justin Lindsley 11 years, 2 months ago

Big East expansion isn't likely now. I would think that if The Big 12 wants to pick some of them up it should be possible. We have a better conference than they do at this point.

LogicMan 11 years, 2 months ago

Big East: they must have at least eight FB schools, and when Syracuse and Pitt leave (27 months or less), they are down to 6. Seven if TCU still comes in. So they need at least one more and fast.

Or a merger with us still makes some sense, if the cents can be figured out. Hey, were not fair with our funds so why not stiff them too?

TheColonel 11 years, 2 months ago

You're assuming UConn and Rutgers stay. They have options and staying in a watered down Big East is likely not high on their list. If the Big East plummets to five (w/ TCU) we could be looking at a whole new, albeit it lesser (think Conf USA) pillaging.

I still think there are dominoes yet to fall...

LogicMan 11 years, 2 months ago

Wikipedia lists average BB and FB attendances for the Big East schools.

Louisville is very high for both! And WVU is very high in FB, and ain't shabby in BB.

Big XII: Grab 'em both, and BYU, and fast!

rob4lb 11 years, 2 months ago

Welcome back to purgatory, er, I mean the Big 12. I think I agree with most of the posters. What prevents the other eight schools from ripping up the bylaws and creating new bylaws that model the successful conferences? We know which ones they are because at some point in the last few weeks, we were hoping KU would land in one of those conferences.

By starting from scratch, UT can decide to stay or go and the only place they can go is independent. Unfortunately, the power has shifted slightly back to UT. OU does not want to go to the SEC and I don't think MU does either. However, I don't think UT has 51% of the vote so I would hope the other schools collectively stand up to UT,

By the way, do everyones get barraged with Longhorn Network ads everything they visit ESPN's website? It may be that I live in Texas. It makes me sick.

William Daniels 11 years, 2 months ago

You should look into using Firefox or Safari as your browser, and adding the AdBlock plugin you get get thru the browsers built in plug in interface. It makes web browsing so much better. I don't see any ads on!

PJ Karasek 11 years, 2 months ago

Chrome now has an AdBlock Plus add-on as well. Essentially all the major players except for IE allow you to ignore ads

LogicMan 11 years, 2 months ago

And the Flash Block plugin too. I get almost no spam, including ads on this site? :-)

trey 11 years, 2 months ago

Thanks for earlier post with link on Tier1, 2 and 3 TV contracts. The way I read it...

Tier1 is for nationally broadcast football & basketball games. Tier2 is for football & basketball games, not selected as Tier1. Tier3 is for football & basketball games, not selected as Tier 1 or 2, and all other sports.

Pretty interesting to see how much current contracts pay "per school" in each conference AND when expiration dates are. This is Tier1&2 combined, ranked by expiration date (and rounded)...

Big East, $5M per year, Tier1 expires 2012, Tier 2 expires 2013. Big12, $15M per year, Tier1 expires 2016, Tier2 expires 2025. B1G, $18M per year, Tier1 expires 2016, Tier2 expires 2032 (Tier2 = BTN). ACC, $13M per year, Tier1&2 expire 2023. SEC, $17M per year, Tier1&2 expire 2024. PAC, $21M per year, Tier1&2 expire 2024.

The LHN is Tier3, and $300M for 20 years. If all goes to Texas, that's $15M per year. That's same amount as the "per school" Tier1&2 contract in Big12. Don't know how much the other school's Tier3 contracts are worth.

LogicMan 11 years, 2 months ago

So it's soon a good time to scoop up the leftover Big East FB schools. Their BB schools look not to provide much revenue, but we should agree to play them as often as desired as part of the deal. (Their BB schools would continue as the Big East.)

rob4lb 11 years, 2 months ago

I read where with the PAC 12 networks which is Tier 3, all conference members may get an extra $10-15M on top of $21M per school meaning that each member gets close to the equivalent to what UT gets for the LNH.

I believe KU has a decent Tier 3 revenue stream. The link below I believe refers to Tier 3 revenue and KU has an agreement with ESPN to broadcast basketball games. They get just under $6M per year. That's pretty good for BASKETBALL, which we all learned isn't that important. I believe the games under this agreement are for games not picked on Big Monday or CBS or any other premium game.

If you read the article, KU has a pretty good deal with ESPN they have negotiated on their own.

Randy Bombardier 11 years, 2 months ago

Four years from now we are really going to rake it in. I was ready for us to bolt the conference but it is the best place to be once we get it together. I hope that we move to strengthen our brand by adding some teams to get us back to 12.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

Hey, Dodds! You be proud of yourself, boy, whilst the rest of the nation knows y'all been b*slapped and is sittin' back laffin' at yer sorry .

Now, for the rest of you co-called "Big 12" schools -- you have leverage right now as you have never had in the past. It doesn't matter what options are open for other schools, what matters is that tu now faces just three options -- Big 12, independence or begging another conference to take it and being totally equal across the board anyway. Better for tu to stay in the Big 12 where it will still have more influence than it will in any other conference.

So gang up on the b**d from Austin. The Big 12 can survive without it as long as everyone else stays. Vote 8-1 to change the conference to equal sharing and equal partnership across the board. Dodds has no other conference options, take advantage of that reality!

If Dodds doesn't like it, he can take his high maintenance pretty girl that nobody else wants and leave.

"Just pay your exit fees on the way out, please, Mr. Dodds. Thank y'all, and have a nice day!"

Rock Chalk Jayhawk KU!

Ted Adams 11 years, 2 months ago

Be careful what you wish for on those Tier 3 rights being shared, because KU made just short of $8MM last year on those rights and didn't share a dime. In fact, KU has had the Jayhawk Network (ESPN+) for almost 20 years and never shared a dime of it.

Forcing an "all in" sharing of Tier 3 rights is going to affect KU just as it would UT. Here is an interesting read about Tier 3 rights.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

I've already posted my reply to this fact -- twice-- elsewhere in today's comments. Please see one of them. Thanks.

Josh Galler 11 years, 2 months ago

ohh my goodness what is the difference between our Tier 3 for KU, MU and KSU internet networks (KU JHN basketball) and UT's? nothing really except a little bit more money they make.

Kristen Downing 11 years, 2 months ago

Hope he is an interim solution, as he looks too old. We need fresh ideas!

FlintHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

His resume is impressive and he's familiar with the territory. Don't think he'd want the job permanently; the set-up he has is too lucrative.

Age has nothing to do with "fresh ideas"; how many youngsters do you know who are unable or unwilling to draw outside the lines? Most of the people I know, young and old, are not risk takers and are afraid to rock the boat. What we need, interim and permanent, is a tough s*b who's not intimidated by Texas or any other school.

I'm all for Neinas as Interim Commission ASAP.

Ervin O'Neal 11 years, 2 months ago

Since the UT Pres is saying they will in no way share the revenues of the LHN, where is the stability in that? Texas and OU give up their larger shares of the Tier 1 and Tier 2 revenues, but UT keeps its $15 million per year LHN and all the recruiting benefits of having their own network. If the other schools agree to that, then I give the Big 12 six months before it all blows up again. No way we will have stability when UT is getting a benefit that no other conference would allow. OU would be better off jumping to the SEC where they won't frown upon OSU's academics. KU better expand the stadium quickly or be left out in the next round.

Over the past few weeks, every conference has been forced to predict the eventual expansion of conferences and their best choices. While I think the B1G is going to wait until more expansion causes ND to join a conference or be left out, I think conferences like the SEC, PAC and ACC are going to aggressively pursue the few options out there that make financial sense for their respective conferences. Just because the PAC said they weren't considering expanding today (if you really believe that) doesn't mean that the SEC isn't going to jump at the opportunity to beat the PAC to the punch at adding OU and UT. If the SEC really thinks that superconferences are inevitable, why not add OU, OSU, aTm and one other to get to 16 now and get the schools you really wanted?

Personally, I would love to see a movement where the 9 schools (including aTm) unite and tell UT to accept the same offer that they would get from any other major conference or hit the road for every sport. Let them know that all Big 12 will sign contracts forbidding the sheduling of games with them for any sport in the future. UT can go take aTm's place in the SEC and make less money than they do now. Bring in BYU to replace UT in the Big 12. Then look at the financial impact of adding TCU and possibly Louisville. We can dream.

Randy Bombardier 11 years, 2 months ago

I was all set for us the leave the conference but it really is the best place for us to be. The Big10 is only the second-best. I just hope after all the dust settles that we get our membership back to 12. I think that is critical to remain strong. I like TCU and BYU and Boise State. I understand that UT doesn't want TCU, so if true would like to see us add Colorado State. The first three have good football and BYU a national following. Strengthening our brand is more important that increasing our footprint as our conference reputation has taken a beating. Beef up the Brand!

Steve Brown 11 years, 2 months ago

if what you say is true, then I vote for TCU.

Perhaps TCU would not be a proxy Longhorn vote and be more similar to KState, KU, ISU and Baylor, in that case, bring them on.

Jayhawk444 11 years, 2 months ago

Unfortunately...the way this played out gives all of the power back to Texas. Scott pulled the rug out from under OU with his Pac-12 is not expanding announcement. If he had waited a few days, OU might have gotten UT to make some bigger concessions. But now...maybe not so much.

OR - it's possible that UT orchestrated this from the very beginning. They wanted the Big12 to stay together, figured Pac doesn't take OU without them, so they purposely tanked that deal to keep OU out of the Pac.

But no matter how we got here, UT is back in power. Now it's just a matter of whether they use their power for good or for evil.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

See, that is just wrong thinking. There are 8 other members in the conference, and if they work together they can bend tu to their collective will.

The problem in the past when equal membership and revenue sharing came up, it needed a 9-3 vote to pass. OU, tu, NU and A&M always voted against it, so it never became reality.

With OU saying it wants equality and stability, you know all the other schools are going to side with them. That's 8-1, and tu has to capitulate or get the heck out.

After this last month it is clear tu has no other conferences as options unless it equally shares everything. tu is on record as saying it does not want to go independent. THE OTHER 8 SCHOOLS HAVE THE LEVERAGE IF THEY WILL JUST UNITE AND USE IT!

And if tu chooses to leave -- well, padnuh, kindly leave your exit fees on the bar and don' let the door hit ya in the *ss on the way out.

Ron Prichard 11 years, 2 months ago

Neinas' credentials look impressive, but his bio states that DeLoss Dodds was a former employee of his. Would that be a stumbling block since the perception of Beebe is that he is a Texas stooge and we want someone more unbiased?

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

Not necessarily. From personal experience I can say that a lot of folks that used to work for me could not unduly influence me if I was hired for a job that put me in a comparable position. But your question is something that should be answered before hiring him.

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm guessing that he'd be fine in an interim capacity regardless of that. As for the future, I'm sure the board and ADs and presidents will all conduct a thorough interview to decide who's the best fit.

lv_jhwk 11 years, 2 months ago

Matt -

Trammel's article mentions that the conference game that was moved over to LHN was a major factor in aTm's decision to leave. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's our game (KU-UT) right? So, albeit somewhat indirectly, we had a hand in this latest meltdown? Better yet, our administration could have been the heroes who stood up to UT and prevented a lot of this (not that it would've gotten much if any publicity)?

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

That is KU-UT this year but it's important to remember two things... One, that's a joint production put on by TLN and the Jayhawk Network, in which the Kansas side of it will be broadcast on Kansas stations and through Kansas efforts in advertising, production and delivery.

Two, the A&M movement started long before this game/deal was ever even discussed let alone finalized.

Bville Hawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Texas AD Deloss Dodds: • Dodds on UT's image: "We are who we are. People say what they say. The outcome is the outcome. We're proud of ourselves."

Just another example of why there are more horse's asses in this world than there are horses.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

bville, the horses are offended by the comparison. For that matter, the jackasses would be as well.

trey 11 years, 2 months ago

Per previous post today, I still see major obstacles to a "stable" Big12 for the long-term. In addition to getting rev sharing, is there a way the Big12 can expand that drives significant revenue growth. I wonder if this would work...

Merge (or partner) with the BigE teams into a 16 team conference. Form 2 divisions - Big8 Division and BigE Division (with pod/travel partners). Championship game for football.

Big8 Division Texas, TTech OU, OSU KU, K-State MU, Iowa State

BigE Division TCU, Baylor Cinci, Louisville West Virginia, S. Florida Rutgers, UConn

Potential benefits... Texas Market (4 schools), NY Market (UConn Rutgers), Powerhouse football (Texas, OU, MU, West Virginia), Up&Coming football (TCU, S. Fla, OSU), Great hoops (KU, UConn, Texas, West Virginia, Louisville), Good hoops (MU, OSU, K-State, Baylor, Cinci), Texas recruiting, East Coast recruiting.

The question is, could this merger create a large enough Tier1&2 TV contract to make it attractive for all. And could it happen when the BigE contract comes up next year. Here's what it would take (if my math is right) for a 12 year contract...

Low-water mark would be same as Big12 today, 15M per school, per year. 16 schools X 15M X 12 years = 2.9B.

Beat the current best contract (in PAC today), 21M per school, per year. 16 schools X 21M X 12 years = 4.0B.

The PAC contract just signed is for 3.0B over 12 years (12 schools). So it would seem that this merged conference might be able to generate very attractive TV money. Thoughts?

Graczyk 11 years, 2 months ago

Did you see this quote from the article about the Reagents' meeting?

"She [BGL]said staying in the Big 12 was important. Being in a less prominent league may have reduced KU's visibility in the eyes of some potential students, she said."

That doesn't sound like KU had any viable options at all. This probably isn't the best time to show all your cards.

texashawk10 11 years, 2 months ago

ESPN can end all of this now by realizing that the LHN will never generate the revenue needed to justify a $300 million deal and tell UT they are buying out the contract and establishing a Big 12 network set up in the model of the BTN. The Longhorn Network isn't even being carried on most major Texas cable companies or satellite companies. It's not on the dominant cable companies in Austin, Houston, and Dallas for sure and I haven't heard anything about it being on in San Antonio or Fort Worth either. It has been a total bust so far for ESPN and saving the Big 12 and preventing the four super-conferences from forming is also in ESPN's best interest because with a playoff, most of the smaller bowl games that ESPN broadcast that get higher ratings than major basketball games would fold and cost ESPN millions of dollars in advertising revenue. With an 8 team playoff, there would only be 7 games as opposed to the 25+ bowl games that ESPN broadcasts annually.

David Atchley 11 years, 2 months ago

David Boren is being raked over the coals in Oklahoma City this afternoon. His infamous words of "Oklahoma isn't going to be a wallflower in realignment" are deafening this afternoon. Boren was ready to "save-face" and spin the rejection from Larry Scott and the PAC 12....

Only problem with that was Scott announced it before Boren had a chance! What stung the most, is when the PAC 12 couldn't get Texas to modify their Longhorn Network, OU found out that being "bundled" to Oklahoma State and the lack of any television markets in Oklahoma, wasn't the least bit attractive to the PAC 12 schools.

Notre Dame will not be joining the Big 12...there's no incentive...they have a $7B endowment, and their own exclusive contract.

Texas has the most to lose of any of the schools in the Big 12 and they simply aren't going to concede any of that exclusivity with ESPN. Texas always has the options at the end of the day..they can always go independent.

Osborne at Nebraska tried for years to attract an exclusive network to Lincoln and could never get anyone interested. Oklahoma has also wanted their own network and have been met with a similar fate. Simply, neither had enough televisions sets in their respective States. Texas A&M was formally approached a few years ago by Texas to partner in a television network and A&M said no.

Texas has to compromise tier-1 and tier-2 television revenue to have the Big 12 Conference stay together? Texas has to consider saying no to ESPN, that we don't want your $300M?

Again, Texas has the brand, the economies of scale, and the national cache' in a State and City that has the spotlight on it. They clearly have the most to lose by keeping the Conference intact, and at the end of the day, if the Big 12 schools want to continue to pout and be jealous, unlike any of the other schools, Texas can as a last resort, always take their $300M Longhorn Network contract and go independent.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

tu going independent? fine with me, and probably with most non-Texas fans in the Big 12.

tu doesn't want to go independent because it wants a home for its Olympic sports. It also knows that it has more value in a conference than on its own.

If the other Big 12 schools stand up to tu, it will either: 1. concede to their points to stay in the Big 12 and still be the most influential player in the conference, essentially 1st among equals, or 2. Go to another conference by agreeing to equal members and $ sharing.

Either way it is not going to be in a conference without agreeing to equality in the long run. Inequality is what has created the instability, and that's what will keep the instability going if it's not changed.

Hank Cross 11 years, 2 months ago

Again, no one in CA gives 2 cents about TX or UT. TX simply isn't worth the headache to add a state that has 9 Million (9,000,000) Less People Less People Than CA. We stopped dressing up in Roy Rogers cowboy suits when we were in 3rd grade, UT puts them in a band. I assure you no one is CA is going to lose minute of sleep that the Clampetts aren't coming to the P12. UT needs to get over itself.

texashawk10 11 years, 2 months ago

I can easily see UT agreeing to equal distribution on tier 1 and 2 revenue because that only costs them a couple million per year at most and since they would still be raking in over $35 million per year in TV revenue, so that wouldn't be a big deal to them. Tier 3 revenue is where it gets very sticky. This is where it could get very ugly because of UT making $15 million off of third tier revenue and will fight as hard as they can to prevent third tier revenue from being distributed equally as will KU and Oklahoma St.. KU and OSU ranked 5th and 7th nationally last year in third tier revenue based on available information for last year.

This link shows how much schools made for the 2009-2010 year in third tier rights.

Since those numbers are for last year, it should be safe to assume the dollar amounts will be similar this year with the exception of Texas who will be making $15 million this year. So averaging what the 8 future Big 12 schools that have figures available (Baylor does not have to release their earnings because they are a private school) comes out to a little over $4 million per school per year as third tier revenue totals about $39 million for the 8 schools available. Texas, Kansas, and Oklahoma St. all make at least $2 million more than that per year so I would guess that equal third tier revenue sharing would likely be a 6-3 vote in favor of with Texas, Kansas, and OSU being against it.

AlecRaenos 11 years, 2 months ago

Dissolve the current Big 12.

OU, OSU, KU, KSU, MU, ISU, Baylor, Tech, WVU, UConn, USF get invites. Leave one left and tell Texas come on or we are inviting TCU. 100% equal revenue sharing 1st-3rd tier rights. 25 million dollar buyout paid in one lump sum.

If Texas comes, great. If not, screw em and snag TCU.

Texas is left with the following choices: Try to go to the Pac 12 alone, swallowing the Longhorn Network. Try to get in the ACC, who will probably not tolerate the Longhorn Network after the SWC and original Big 12 have dissolved from Texas' arrogance. Go independent and see what kind of deal they can get. Go to the SEC and lower their academic reputation and never win another football title again. Or go to the Big 12 and work on a Big 12 network, play regional rivals, and make a lot of money.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

I don't agree with dissolving the conference, just vote 8-1 to go to equality in all aspects, keep the BCS status, collect A&M's exit fees and tu can stay or leave as they wish. Other than conference dissolution, I'm with you, Alec!

AlecRaenos 11 years, 2 months ago

Someone pointed out that it probably isn't legal to retroactively change the rules like that so the only option would be to dissolve the conference.

Call Texas on their bluff. Dodds said he doesn't want to go independent. I think they do. I think they are trying to stave off going there until the LHN is secure. Force the issue.

I'm a Big 8 guy and could give a rat's ass if Texas is in the conference. IF OU stays, it will still be an AQ conference with or without Texas.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

Just like amending the U.S. Constitution, every charter (let me caveat that with every good charter) provides rules for how it can be amended. Based on what I've read and heard in the media, changes to the Big 12 charter require a 75% majority to be enacted (if anyone knows the exact details, their input is welcome). With 9 members, that means 7 of the 9 must vote for the change. I figure today that vote would be 8-1.

It might be the case for reasonableness and implementation time considerations that the changes would not go into effect until the next academic year, but that's okay as long as everyone knows the changes will take place. As far as the equal sharing of the renamed Big 12 Network, tu can easily work that out with ESPN.

In this economy, it's going to be a long time before that sorry LHN gets any kind of traction.

texashawk10 11 years, 2 months ago

Why would KU vote to equal third tier revenue sharing when they're making over $7 million per year from third tier when most Big 12 schools were making under $4 million per year. Until there is a true Big 12 conference network, I'm fine with unequal third distribution because at this point, it's been up to individual schools to work those deals out for themselves and KU has done a better job than just about anybody at maximizing their value. If I'm a KU official, I'm voting against equal third tier distribution until there is a true Big 12 network because at that point, a true Big 12 network would likely be the more valuable way to go.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

That is the type of shortsighted thinking that has led the conference to its current situation. It needs to be equal footing all around or it won't work. See B1G, SEC and Pac12.

tu stands to make $15M a year from ESPN for its LHN on top of any other $$ it gets in the year. That means that tu will be making at least 70% more from the start than any other Big 12 school -- more at the end of the year, depending on which schools are being compared to it.

So if we leave 3rd tier to the individual schools, Texas becomes the New York Yankees of the Big 12 -- and CFB for that matter, since all the other leagues have equal revenue sharing. I would not be surprised if down the road we see other conferences stealing Big 12 members just so Texas is forced to either go independent or submit to equal partnerships in a new conference just to level the playing field $$$ wise.

But, if everyone in the Big 12 shares equally at all tiers, then there is real impetus between the members and a TV partner to create a Big 12 Network that would carry stuff from all the schools. It would have more material to air (a real problem that tu and ESPN are facing right now), appeal to a broader demographic across the nation wherever Big 12 alums live, and make more $$$ for the conference from an even bigger contract than tu's current one (which should be rolled into it) and ensuring the long term economic viability of the conference, it's members, and their communities.

rob4lb 11 years, 2 months ago

The Big Ten Network and the Pac 12 networks are projected to generate an additional $10M per school for third tier rights. In the same way that KU benefits from equal sharing with a bad football team, it can give back by generate revenue for the conference with a great basketball team.

texashawk10 11 years, 2 months ago

I realize that a Big 12 Network will generate more money for everyone except maybe Texas when there is one up and running with major network backing, whether it be Fox Sports or ESPN converting the LHN into a Big 12 Network. Until that point, let the schools make what they can off of their own third tier deals with their own distribution deals. Setting up a Big 12 Network and getting major network backing will take a couple of years to acquire all of the schools third tier rights, get a studio up and running, hire the people necessary to run a network, and secure enough content to fill the broadcast schedule. Until that day, let the schools make what they can.

Benjamin Piehler 11 years, 2 months ago

Just gotta play hardball with UT a little bit....

as far as I know, no conference has said Texas would be able to come with the Longhorn Network as it currently is. So we gotta say "Texas! The LHN is dead no matter where you go... here is our compromise...."

Steve Brown 11 years, 2 months ago

Add Boise, TCU, Louisville, split into two divisions.

rise up get aggressive add schools now, temper UT with new sharing rules.

Benjamin Piehler 11 years, 2 months ago

I like BYU, Louisville and either TCU/Houston or Air Force

rob4lb 11 years, 2 months ago

I would love for the other conference members to play hardball with UT. In all honesty, if A&M were still in the conference, the loss of UT would only moderately affect the size of our broadcast package.

From a financial standpoint, the Big 12 does pretty well. Remember, if you expand the new schools needs to be able to add more to the pie than the current revenue per school. There are not alot of schools out there to do that- certainly BYU, possibly West Virginia. I doubt Lousville or Cincinnati. Louisville does have a 56,000 seat stadium, WV has a 60,000 seat stadium and BYU has a 64.000 seat stadium.

You need to stop advocating TCU. They bring nothing. You may end up having to reduce the revenue per school and you bring in another school to the conference that you have to compete with for Texas recruits. Why would you want to do that?

Something tells me there will be more twists before this is fully resolved.

Dennis Mahorney 11 years, 2 months ago

Dont think Mckechnie can even say KU without saying "and K-State,! and K-State! Dont forget K-State!" Dodds says people will look back 10 years from now and say that this was not that big of a deal....Thats what people say when they are wrong, and get caught. Oh, and on T . Boone Pickens insistence that A&M will sober up...Glad you can afford the good stuff. Think you got a little Captain in you too...

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm an alum of A&M (MS'00) as well as KU (BS'82, MBA'84), and I know what has been said to the public about A&M being outta here. Having said that, I would not be at all surprised if A&M petitions to stay in the Big 12 if the other 8 can get tu to agree to equal membership and revenue sharing.

I'm not saying it will happen. I'm saying it would not surprise me if it did.

Now if T. Boone can just shut up in public and keep working it in private...

Michael Maris 11 years, 2 months ago

I know a Texas Alum that works for the same company that I work for.

He says that there is NO way that Texas surrenders the TLN. I told him that as long as U. of Texas-Austin keeps their TLN (without turning it into the Big XII Network), the irritating smell of Bevo will continue to cause problems in the Big XII Conference.

Course, he is from Texas and he acts just like the typical Texas Alumni. He played basketball at U. of Nebraska - Omaha (until he got hurt). Then, he quit basketball and moved back home to finish out his college education at U.of Texas - Austin.

getserious 11 years, 2 months ago

Why not kick Texas out? Ask A&M to stay, Add BYU, Louisville and West Va and have EQUAL revenue sharing. The problem will never be solved as long as one school gets more money that the rest. We are all supposed to be in this together.

Pbbut 11 years, 2 months ago

Matt, you've done great work on this and its appreciated. Keep after it, this story is not over yet, friction ongoing with UT and all that.
I loved the SEC application. Just this past week on local radio, the former Missouri State AD was a guest and he had a printout on the University of Alabama. According to the information he had, there are 140 people getting paid over $100,000 in the Athletic Department at Alabama. Mike Shula, remember him, is still getting over $500,000 a year from the Tide.
Mangino's buyout was pocket change to these guys.

FlintHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Matt, I'm joining the chorus of your fans who thank you for the terrific investigative work and reporting you've done for us the past couple of weeks. (Has it only been that long?) I too hope you get some big recognition out of your work on this — at the very least ole Keeg should give you a BIG RAISE and a promotion (your own column?).

I am so appreciative of having your blog to hang onto day and night. As others have said, you provided the best info on the conference realignment debacle of anything else available online — not just for us and the Big 12 but interesting and important insights into the other conferences.

You've got us all better prepared/informed for the 2012 debacle.......;

RockChalkinSeattle 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm with FlintHawk...Matt's site has been the most informative and reliable reporting I've been able to find about the entire madhouse. Way to go!

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

Here's a dated but GREAT link to a 1998 Athlon article called "Conference Reallignment: A History" It is still so spot on as far as the trends, even though it has some of the details (e.g., Syracuse went ACC, not B1G) wrong (remember, it was written 13 years ago). Enjoy!

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

Remember, this article was written before the ACC raided the Big East the first time for Miami, BC and VaTech.

JayBoi2011 11 years, 2 months ago

OK. I'm going to make up my own conference. Alright. We clear up a situation where we can expand, and then go out and get BYU which is basically peeing it's pants to get in here. Then we get Air Force as a stop gap between BYU and the rest of us. That puts at 11. Then we poach the Big east. Two options here. We could go for two more and get louisville and WVU, but I think we could easily get 16 if we grab Cincy as well and then a 4th school, whether it be rutgers or UCONN, (seems unlikely considering their ACC offer) or maybe Notre Dame? That seems really unlikely, but maybe. Probably a Mac school or Mountain west school. Could be Memphis. Could be a lot of schools. Who knows, maybe Arkansas at that point would be interested. I think 16 is a very real possibility, and if somehow we got Arkansas, that could put the SEC in a tailspin which snatches up ACC schools and the Big 12 becomes a super conference. That would be cool. But first, BYU then Air Force, then Big East.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

So few people think of the BE's South Florida (Tampa), which I would take over WVU, Louisville or Cincinnati in a heartbeat. USF is a growing program that would give the conference a footprint and more exposure in the rapidly growing fertile recruiting grounds of Florida. Florida is the 4th most populous state in the country behind CA, TX and NY. Despite being so large (18M), it is grew 17% per year since 2000 ( FTR, the national average growth is 9.7%). It has 10 times the population of West Virginia, and the Bulls are growing a big fan base in the state. USF has a normal enrollment of ~47K students, so it is creating a lot of alums every year to help grow that fan base. It plays in Raymond James Stadium (capacity 65.6K, slight larger than Puskar Stadium's 60.5K, UofLs' 56K and much larger than Cincy's 35K).

Methinks they would be worth it.

FLJHK 11 years, 2 months ago

USF is an interesting case. I live in Tampa and have a great friend who is a professor at USF.

It is a huge school although it has historically been a commuter school. But they are making a strong effort to increase on-campus housing and have been pretty successful. Tampa is the 13th largest television market in the country.

Academically it is not real highly ranked, but is decent and improving.

They have only had football for a dozen years or so, but have seen a meteoric rise in stature. They have had road wins in the past few years over Auburn, Florida State, and Miami, and this year won their opener at Notre Dame.

Neither the ACC or SEC is likely to invite them because they already have strong footprints in the State of Florida. Florida is extremely talent rich in football and would be fertile grounds for recruiting.

USF is not my first choice for Big 12 expansion simply because they don't fit the geographical identity of the conference which I prefer maintaining. But USF is very much an up-and-coming university, and if the Big 12 wants to expand is geographic footprint, USF is a legitimate target, and in my view a better one than a school like West Virginia.

JayBoi2011 11 years, 2 months ago

I like USF, but my only concern is that they are so far out of the way logistically. Although Daniel Tosh went there so that is a one up on any other Big East school.

DallasJayhawk1 11 years, 2 months ago

Thought this was interesting that just came out from NewsOK I don't think this is OU spin--I really do think this was an ultimate play by them to get what they want.

rcjh22 11 years, 2 months ago

Daymond Patterson is out for the season.

RockChalkinSeattle 11 years, 2 months ago

It's becoming increasingly clear that UT is is big driver behind the entire mess. Things might be bigger but they're not necessarily better in Texas. Big money and egos make for poor playmates. Until UT learns to play nice, the Big 12, or whatever league they try to get into, will not function well. Other big football programs around the country have learned to play nice in their leagues.

Remembering the good 'ole days of the Big 8...

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 2 months ago

KU just became the biggest winner in this. Here is how, but personally I don't think this is done (I think conference realignment will occur still this year, but I could be wrong).

In football, KU has zero games in Tier I, maybe in 2007 we had the border war. KU typically doesn't have Tier II games, NIU was Tier III, but Georgia Tech was Tier II. Remaining games on the schedule that are Tier I or Tier II...I don't think there will be any, but some will be picked up on Tier III (e.g. UT, MU, OU, KSU, TTU, OSU) ISU and BU probably won't get picked up.

Basketball, has a lot more Tier II and Tier III type games. Of course all the Big Monday games fall in Tier I, OU/UT Tier II about half of the Big XII games (8). Finally, Tier III are all of those other games, we get picked up and we make a lot. I betcha we are one of the top producing Tier III schools.

We share the Tier 1 and Tier II that we aren't as big on, and Tier III we add a lot, but don't have to share.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

To repeat myself:

That is the type of shortsighted thinking that has led the conference to its current situation. It needs to be equal footing all around or it won't work. See B1G, SEC and Pac12.

tu stands to make $15M a year from ESPN for itsTier 3 LHN on top of any other $$ it gets in the year. That means that tu will be making at least 70% more from the start than any other Big 12 school -- more at the end of the year, depending on which schools are being compared to it.

So if we leave 3rd tier to the individual schools, Texas becomes the New York Yankees of the Big 12 -- and CFB for that matter, since all the other leagues have equal revenue sharing. I would not be surprised if down the road we see other conferences stealing Big 12 members just so Texas is forced to either go independent or submit to equal partnerships in a new conference just to level the playing field $$$ wise.

But, if everyone in the Big 12 shares equally at all tiers, then there is real impetus between the members and a TV partner to create a Big 12 Network that would carry stuff from all the schools. It would have more material to air (a real problem that tu and ESPN are facing right now), appeal to a broader demographic across the nation wherever Big 12 alums live, and make more $$$ for the conference from an even bigger contract than tu's current one (which should be rolled into it) and ensuring the long term economic viability of the conference, it's members, and their communities.

rob4lb 11 years, 2 months ago

I think you don't understand the tier structure. Almost all football games are either Tier 1 or Tier 2. The recent contract with Fox gives the schools one game (Tier 3) that they can shop around and figure out how to generate revenue. For KU, that was the McNeese State game which was broadcast on the internet. Every other football game is Tier 1 or Tier 2. UT wanted to add a second Tier 3 game so it could be broadcast on the LHN. IN order to do that, the had to convince Fox to give it up and then another conference school to agree. They were able to convince KU to do that and there is now a joint broadcast of the KU-UT game.

If a Big 12 network was formed to broadcast Tier 3 rights, all schools would stand to gain more money with the exception of UT. UT would probably have to give up $5M/yr.

If we really believe in equal partnership with conference member, we are either all in or we become a mini-version of UT.

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 2 months ago

I really don't get why people want to expand the conference.

Tier 1 and Tier 2 revenue is a fixed about. I've heard in the neighborhood of $250MM/Year. Which we are sharing equally. Before $250/10 Schools is $25MM/Yr.

Now doing the math by 9 is just about $28MM/Yr/School. Clearly better.

In addition, 9 schools...8 football games 4Home/4Away. 16 Basketball games Home and Away for each School.

If you add 3 schools you are not going to get another $81MM/Year for the conference.

The key to stability is not the addition of teams, but getting schools to sign a longterm deal with huge exit fees.

Vote no expansion it is best for all of us.

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 2 months ago

If we lose UT or OU, and I think the number was like under 8, than the TV networks could renegociate, otherwise it is fixed.

I forget how the AQ is created, but actually, OU is the team we really need, but believe it or not, KU actually helps in that category since we won a BCS game less than 5 years ago. Can you believe that besides OU, we were the last member of the Big XII to win a BCS game.

Ervin O'Neal 11 years, 2 months ago

"In addition, 9 schools...8 football games 4Home/4Away"

True, but scheduling would be harder since at least one team would not be playing a conference game each week. This would cause some schools to either have a bye week late in the season or they would have to schedule a non-conference game that week.

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 2 months ago

Non-Conference are fairly easy with the number of independents (4), bye weeks, and I hear the Big East will schedule some games.

Without the Conference game you actually get two bye weeks, one typically in the first few weeks, and then you can do it in the 5-9 weeks fairly easily.

i think it will nice to mix in a non-conference game late in the year, similar to how the SEC does it.

Bville Hawk 11 years, 2 months ago

I think you also are required to have either 10 or maybe 12 schools to stage a conference championship game (big bucks, prime time, etc). But to my way of thinking the championship game works against your conference as often as it helps.

Bottom line, though, is that I'm with you. Stay at 9, no expansion, and make it really, really painful to bolt the conference.

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 2 months ago

12 teams for a conference championship, but that doesn't bring an additional $81MM, so again I don't think it is worth it.

rob4lb 11 years, 2 months ago

I think you are not going to be considered a "big boy" conference if you don't have a championship game. Right now, the four most stable BCS conferences have championship games. The Big 12 needs to get back to 12. Get three of the following: BYU, South Florida, Louisville or WV. Forget Air Force and TCU.

142466 11 years, 2 months ago

Well stated regarding the need to promptly get to 12. The 3 new members, though, should come from the Mountain Time Zone and Texas. Geographical compatibility is important for long-term stability.

Woody Cragg 11 years, 2 months ago

The new tv contract with Fox is, I believe, based on 10 schools & for some reason I'm thinking the money is unbelievable-like a billion or some unheard of type of $$$. Have read so many diff artcles tonight it's sorta' blurry. Will try to recover that info asap.

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 2 months ago

1.2 over 13 years, but I don't think there has been any requirement to have 10 teams. That is for the Tier II rights, not the Tier 1.

Of course our Tier 3 are different as well.

I heard the PAC schools will get about 32MM. UT is set to make about $43. Most Big XII schools should make between $30-35, KU closer to the 35, ISU closer to the 30.

Either they should blow up the conference now, or they should create a long-term no add/no removal setup.

Woody Cragg 11 years, 2 months ago

CNNSI story says Fox deal is 1.2 billion, 10 teams, over 13 yrs. Deal was just done in April. Gotta have 10.

Vernon Riggs 11 years, 2 months ago

Ready for the Next Chapter of the Big12? The Big15.

Football Schools South-Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, OU, OSU, TCU North-K-State, Kansas, Mizzou, Iowa St, Louisville, Cincy Associate Member: Notre Dame

Each year, Notre Dame plays two games from the South, one is Texas every Friday after Thanksgiving in Cowboy Stadium in Dallas, one game per year rotating from the other South Teams in South Bend. Then each year Notre Dame plays two teams in the North, one rotating in Arrowhead in KC and Soldiers Field in Chicago with Mizzou, K-State or Kansas, one game with another North member in South Bend.

But Notre Dame keeps their Independence status in football. They are not full members of the conference and may maintain their NBC money and quarter share of the Big12 Tier One and Two money.

Teams play every team in their own division (5 games) and 3 games with teams in the other division, Notre Dame games counts as one of these 3 games.

Basketball Schools East-Notre Dame, Cincy, Louisville, Marquette, DePaul West-Kansas, K-State, Iowa State, Mizzou, Texas Tech South-Texas, Baylor, TCU, OU, OSU

Each team plays teams in their division on a home and away (8 games), teams play teams in the other division on a rotating schedule (10 games) for a total of 18 games. Top 12 teams advance to the tournament, with top four seeds receiving first round byes. Big15 Tournaments rotating in Louisville, Kansas City and OKC.

What do you think?

Josh Galler 11 years, 2 months ago

sounds like Kevin Harlen's plan when he was on the radio with KK

Vernon Riggs 11 years, 2 months ago

Great minds. I am in Waco Texas. Do not get Lawrence or KC stations here.

Bville Hawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Making exceptions to the "3 Musketeers Rule" (All for one and one for all!) is what brought us to the brink. If you're not a student of history you are doomed to repeat it!

rob4lb 11 years, 2 months ago

No way for TCU. Why bring in the basketball only schools?

Vernon Riggs 11 years, 2 months ago

I would like to see Notre Dame play an 'associate member' schedule in football and a full member in other sports. To include DePaul and Marquette, it adds balance to the conference with 3 five-team division instead of 12 teams plus Notre Dame = 13 teams. Plus it add Chicago as a Big12 City.

FLJHK 11 years, 2 months ago

I just posted this above for those with an interest in USF as an expansion target.

USF is an interesting case. I live in Tampa and have a great friend who is a professor at USF.

It is a huge school although it has historically been a commuter school. But they are making a strong effort to increase on-campus housing and have been pretty successful. Tampa is the 13th largest television market in the country.

Academically it is not real highly ranked, but is decent and improving.

They have only had football for a dozen years or so, but have seen a meteoric rise in stature. They have had road wins in the past few years over Auburn, Florida State, and Miami, and this year won their opener at Notre Dame.

Neither the ACC or SEC is likely to invite them because they already have strong footprints in the State of Florida. Florida is extremely talent rich in football and would be fertile grounds for recruiting.

USF is not my first choice for Big 12 expansion simply because they don't fit the geographical identity of the conference which I prefer maintaining. But USF is very much an up-and-coming university, and if the Big 12 wants to expand is geographic footprint, USF is a legitimate target, and in my view a better one than a school like West Virginia.

Travis Clementsmith 11 years, 2 months ago

If the Big XII decides it must expand to 12, South Florida would be one of the schools I want as well. BYU, Louisville and South Florida. I see people keep bringing up Boise St. Why would you want Idaho, when you could have a comparable program and the recruiting hot ground of Florida? Sure its further away than Cincinnati, but it is a better program. Add Louisville to bolster the basketball profile against the ACC and BYU for their national audience. Those three give the best combination (assuming no Notre Dame) of eyeballs, namebrand and new recruiting footprint.

kureader 11 years, 2 months ago

Hey, what's the deal, Tait?

Your last update was at 4:22 pm. It's now 10:22 pm That's 6 hours without an update! How am I supposed to know what's going on? Surely, you didn't take the evening off!

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 2 months ago

I was thinking the same thing,

But I am guessing he hasn't slept for about 3 weeks, so I'll let it slide this one night.

FLJHK 11 years, 2 months ago

Being a compassionate type I'm willing to give him Wednesday nights off. But he'd better be on duty until midnight the other 6 days/week.

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

You guys thought I could stay away???

Just posted a little news about Dan Beebe. Looking like he's on his way out. 11:06 update.

That is it for tonight, though.

More tomorrow!

FLJHK 11 years, 2 months ago

Amazing. Thanks for all you do, Matt.

Ervin O'Neal 11 years, 2 months ago


Thanks for all the great coverage on this crazy topic! Well done!

I have a feeling your hard work caused you to fall asleep at your computer. If so, I hope the imprints on your face from the keyboard buttons go away quickly.

Matt Tait 11 years, 2 months ago

Thanks a lot. Just stepped away for a birthday dinner for my wife. I'll take you up on that sleep, though. Although I'll trade the keyboard for a pillow.

More tomorrow!

Travis Clementsmith 11 years, 2 months ago

I think you just add BYU so the contract isn't voided and go on our merry way.

My own opinion, but I really don't give a rat's you know what about the LHN. People think it gives Texas a competitive advantage and makes them the NY Yankees of CFB. Texas has always had that and always will. It isn't the LHN that makes them richer than everyone else. They're the flagship university of the second most populous state in the union that treats football as a religion from birth.

The thing is, Texas can only take so many. They can't "legally" pay for their players, so they won't be the Yankees. They were going to get their pick of the top Texas recruits anyway.

Texas is arrogant. Like we didn't know that before the LHN. But OU dominates the football titles and KU dominates the basketball titles, so obviously arrogance and money don't equal NY Yankees dominance.

Now, I do believe the conference needs to identify come common conference goals to work together with. This prevailing idea that every school should be out for themselves is perpetrated by Texas, and Texas needs to take a leadership role as a partner, not as an overlord. But, I don't feel like the LHN factors into that at all. I think A&M came off as a whiny little sibling that stomped off.

We need common goals for the Big XII, we need to give the commish some actual power, and most of all, we need to start collecting on that contract and build up the football program. Until the football program reaches a Missouri status, it will be an albatross that makes us vulnerable if and when this stuff comes around again.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

I like most of what you write, but disagree that the $$$ won't make that much difference. True, tu can't buy players, and it can only take so many, and generally has it's pick of the state of Texas crop. BUT -- in the 10 years before it joined the Big 12 and experienced the success it did here, it had sunk quite a bit in stature. In those ten years it was 65-48-2, with only 5 winning seasons in that span. Before the stumble of 2010, since joining the Big 12 in 1996 and getting the $$$ it has earned from its improved financial situation, it averaged 10-3 seasons, and only had 1 losing campaign (1997).

PLUS it has been very successful in all it's other sports, attracting the best from near and far with it's excellent facilities to go with it's excellent academics. When a school has the resources to have the best in ALL it's sports, it is a hugely synergistic recruiting tool. The $$$ disparity does makes a difference.

texashawk10 11 years, 2 months ago

I'm sure your wife enjoyed seeing you for the first time in a couple of weeks Matt, FOE!

FLJHK 11 years, 2 months ago

Expansion thoughts. BYU is a given. Not really my kind of place, but they are athletically and academically solid, and have a national identity and following. Should quickly be extended an invitation.

I’ve been an Air Force advocate for more than a year. I know it may not be an exciting choice as a school likely to make a big athletic splash, but they would bring some very desirable intangibles. Their athletics are better than many realize, and they are very solid academically. But mainly, they just bring a measure of dignity and stability to a conference in dire need of both qualities. I think AFA would be a unique, no-drama, welcome addition to the conference.

I’m fine with either USF or Louisville as a member. USF¸ for reasons articulated above is clearly a university on the rise. I love the basketball pedigree that Louisville would bring, and they are in reasonable proximity to much of the Big 12. I would choose our additional 3 members from these 4. Regarding the others that have been mentioned, my thoughts are as follows.

TCU/SMU: both solid schools, good academics and large endowments, so are somewhat acceptable. But we don’t need more Texas.

Colorado State: Worthy of consideration but probably not quite ready. New Mexico is similar. Both are in growth states and may be considered if the Big 12 expands beyond 12.

West Virgina: generally good athletics, poor academics, and really doesn’t bring much of a market and is too far away.

Boise State: No. Years away from consideration.

pgittemeier09 11 years, 2 months ago

tcu smu? poor fan base at tcu (werent at full capacity last year and won the rose bowl????) SMU? sh**** athletics, more texas, and small enrollment...and their private

I dont want anymore baylors BYU USF Louisville Cincy Colo st WVU tcu in that order

FLJHK 11 years, 2 months ago

Re-read my post. I'm not advocating TCU or SMU. I want 3 schools chosen between these 4: BYU, AFA, USF and Louisville. All bring more to the table than any others.

OldOldHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Air Force brings dignity? Do google "Air Force Academy" and "sex." That school has been a decade long sex scandal involving both faculty and cadets. It also coerces cadets into conservative Christianity. AFA brings nothing to the Big XII. It certainly doesn't bring dignity.

FLJHK 11 years, 2 months ago

Very legitimate points. I do think the military and military schools handle their scandals better than most institutions. But the sex scandal at AFA is a major stain and cannot be ignored.

FLJHK 11 years, 2 months ago

Aside from Jaybate's amazing posts on anything related to KU hoops, your "Think before posting" is my single favorite phrase on this site. Hilarious.

Despite your erroneous PAC bias (the Big 10 remains best; class doesn't expire) I appreciate your perspective, and acknowledge that your view that the PAC is the conference of the future.has legitimacy.

Expansion to include 3 of these 4: BYU, AFA, USF and Louisville is the way to go for now.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

Since 2003 the AFA has made significant changes as a result of the scandal. If the AF leadership had continued to ignore the issue, your point on that issue would have more weight. The proselytizing is another bothersome issue that is presently being addressed by the AF leadership. However, it should be pointed out that the AF is very cognizant of the religious needs and rights of all its cadets, and that the Cadet Chapel contains dedicated spaces for worship by Catholics, nondenominational Protestants and Jews, plus two "all faiths" rooms which were set up for Islamic, Hindi and Buddhist services when we visited there last year. Given the above, I have no problem with bringing the AFA in if it is interested.

Eric Dawson 11 years, 2 months ago

My Catholic wife and her folks did note that the Catholic nave was on the second level below the main Protestant chapel and the -- ahem -- cathedral ceiling. The Catholic digs were still cool, but not nearly as cool as the penthouse. Still better than the Jewish Chapel, though, which was yet another level down with the "all faiths" rooms.

Jjhawkgirl 11 years, 2 months ago

Have to disagree here. Full disclosure - KU grad married to AFA grad. That being said, what school doesn't come with its share of scandals...anyone remember an incident regarding a Taco Bell Drive Thru? AFA is and should be held to a higher standard however and since we are all paying for their education, we should expect it. I believe most of those issues have been dealt with, and I can say that AFA grads rank among some of the finest people I know. And none of them are crazy religious zealots.
This is an excellent academic institution with broad fan appeal across the USA, a football program that consistently goes to Bowl Games, and a local market left vacant by the departure of CU. Don't let the BE get them first. I say BYU, AFA and Louisville and/or USF.

actorman 11 years, 2 months ago

Happy Birthday to your wife, Matt. She must be a saint to put up with all the time you have to give up to help keep us peons informed.

Hank Cross 11 years, 2 months ago

Happy Birthday to your wife, Matt! Hope the two of you had a chance to get away from this nonsense for a while.

Benjamin Piehler 11 years, 2 months ago

BYU to get to 10... Louisville & probably USF or TCU (if they can be convinced to switch) if we go back to 12.

IF we get crazy and feel like 14.... AFA and Cincy?

All of those, except TCU, would bring new TV markets and recruiting in some cases.

Avoid WVU and Boise, despite their football programs, the TV markets aren't great and their academics aren't great either.

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