Southern California defeats Kansas, 85-51

  • 8:40 p.m., March 22, 2021
  • Hinkle Fieldhouse, Indianapolis, IN,

Monday, March 22, 2021

Jayhawks rolled by Trojans in 85-51 defeat during Round 2 of NCAA Tournament

Kansas guard Christian Braun (2) shoots on USC guard Drew Peterson (13) as Evan Mobley (4) attempts a block during the first half of a men's college basketball game in the second round of the NCAA tournament at Hinkle Fieldhouse in Indianapolis, Monday, March 22, 2021. (AP Photo/Paul Sancya)

Kansas guard Christian Braun (2) shoots on USC guard Drew Peterson (13) as Evan Mobley (4) attempts a block during the first half of a men's college basketball game in the second round of the NCAA tournament at Hinkle Fieldhouse in Indianapolis, Monday, March 22, 2021. (AP Photo/Paul Sancya)


Indianapolis — USC’s Mobley brothers, Evan and Isaiah, did to third-seeded Kansas on Monday night what Eastern Washington’s Groves brothers, Tanner and Jacob, could not just two days earlier.

They sent the Jayhawks home with a gut-wrenching 85-51 loss in the second round of the NCAA Tournament.

After the teams briefly shook hands and KU walked off the floor, Kansas senior Marcus Garrett led the Jayhawks to the locker room, draping a towel over his head and covering his face to hide the pain.

“That’s about as poor as we can play and I’m sure (USC coach) Andy (Enfield) would say that’s certainly one of their better games,” KU coach Bill Self said after the loss. “So it was a bad combination all the way around for us."

Although the statistics were similar in that both pairs of siblings went off against the Jayhawks (the Groves Bros. for 58 points, including nine 3-pointers, and the Mobleys for 27 points and 21 rebounds), it was the way it happened on Monday night at historic Hinkle Fieldhouse that made the Mobley impact much tougher for Kansas to overcome.

As if Isaiah Mobley’s four first-half 3-pointers — a new career-high, by the way — were not enough, the fact that both brothers kept Kansas from getting comfortable on offense added to the misery for the Jayhawks.

"He was four of five (and had) made 12 for the year," Self said of Isaiah Mobley, who strummed an imaginary guitar while getting back on defense after every 3-point make. "That kind of staggered us and put us in a situation where we really didn't recover."

The loss was KU's worst ever in an NCAA Tournament game and the worst in any game during Self's 18 years with the program.

Kansas opened the game 1-of-11 from the floor and heated up only marginally the rest of the half, first climbing to 4-of-20 before settling at 8-for-31 (27%) by halftime.

USC wasn’t much better to start the game, but the Trojans (24-7) looked much more comfortable and were able to dictate the way the game was played on both ends.

The Groves brothers did that on the offensive end, but Kansas was eventually able to outscore them.

USC’s air-tight defense, led by the Mobley brothers, made that much more challenging for KU in the second round.

“They’re totally different type players,” Self said of USC’s Kansas killers.

By halftime, the 6-foot-10 Isaiah Mobley and 7-foot Evan Mobley had combined for 21 points, 16 rebounds and 2 blocks, matching KU’s point total and out-rebounding the Jayhawks by themselves, 16-15.

When the final buzzer sounded, the two had added nine assists to their 20-plus combined points and rebounds and earned a comfy seat on the USC bench while the Kansas walk-ons and reserves played out the game on the wrong end of a blowout.

Despite the miserable offensive start, Kansas found something that worked midway through the half, with Marcus Garrett and Christian Braun driving hard for baskets at the rim.

Many of them came when David McCormack pulled Evan Mobley out of the paint. But USC’s willingness to attack KU’s offense with a 2-3 zone defense kept that strategy from working for long.

Still, Garrett’s driving bucket with just over 4 minutes to play in the half pulled Kansas within 29-21, and the Jayhawks appeared to be right there. USC responded with an 11-0 run to close the half and led 40-21 at the break.

Kansas (21-9) showed signs of life early in the second half, cutting the USC lead to 16, with a shot in the air that could have cut it to 13. But the Jayhawks just never could string together multiple positive plays in a row.

“They were obviously more prepared, played better, coached better, we shot it miserably and they shot it unbelievably well,” Self said. “You’ve got to make some shots.”

Even when USC tried to help them by launching quick 3-point shots instead of milking the clock — it’s hard to blame them for doing so, as the Trojans hit 11 of their first 16 3-point tries in this one — the Jayhawks were called for a foul on the box out or lost the rebound out of bounds.

After each moment, the Kansas player hit by the miscue grimaced in the kind of pain that could be felt in all four corners of Hinkle Fieldhouse.

The looks on the faces of the Jayhawks said it all throughout Monday’s game. And that’s to say nothing of the shade of red on Self’s face on the bench, rosy because of both his team’s offensive ineptitude and some of the whistles that went against his team.

In the first half, redshirt freshman Jalen Wilson responded to an air-balled jumper from the high post with a head shake and a frown toward the ground.

Later, after McCormack lost a defensive rebound out of bounds during a stretch when KU had an opportunity to steal some momentum, Garrett clinched his fists and flinched his face with the agony of the lost opportunity filling his face.

The expressions of pain soon turned to shame, as USC stayed red hot and relentless until the final buzzer, burying 3-pointer after 3-pointer and throwing down several vicious and uncontested dunks that left the basket shaking and the Jayhawks defeated.

Before the final margin was set, USC built a lead of as many as 35 points (79-44) in a game that was every bit as lopsided as that score indicated.

“I hate it for all our guys,” Self said. “But more so for Marcus than anybody else. I’m disappointed for Marc. I thought he competed and tried his butt off.”

Monday’s loss ended one of the strangest seasons in Kansas basketball history.

Playing in front of mostly-empty arenas throughout the season, and with the threat of COVID-19 looming with every thrice-weekly test, the Jayhawks still managed to finish second in the Big 12 Conference and entered the postseason as the 12th-highest seeded team in the country.

As he has said throughout his time as a head coach, Self said before the NCAA Tournament began that the matchups are more important than a team’s seed. And Kansas, which actually was a 1.5-point underdog entering Monday’s game against the sixth-seeded Trojans, ran into a matchup for which they had no answer.

Monday’s victory, the latest by the surprising Pac-12 Conference, which put four teams into the Sweet 16 and stole the headlines this week, moves USC into the next weekend’s third round, where they’ll meet up with conference foe Oregon on Sunday.

Kansas, meanwhile, will head home licking its wounds and wondering what the future holds.

While the COVID-19 waiver presents the opportunity for everyone on the roster to return, at least a couple of players — most notably Garrett — likely will consider leaving.

And then there’s the looming NCAA infractions case against the program, which remains in the hands of the newly formed Independent Accountability Resolution Process panel that could determine KU’s postseason fate for future years if the punishment doled out is severe.

Self has said in recent weeks that he hopes for a resolution in the NCAA’s case against Kansas by the end of summer or early fall.

“I think for a lot of teams out there, it’s been a hard year,” Self said. “I really thought we were peaking at the right time, but our margin for error was small and when we played in a way where the ball stuck and we didn’t really play together to help each other, we became very average or even poor.”


Doug Roberts 1 year, 6 months ago

Will the next AD have the courage to fire Bill Self? Will you have the courage to know that's what needs to happen? Be honest, Self has underachieved since he's been here. The National Championship was 13 YEARS AGO. Yes, we've had a few embarrassing Final Four appearances, but they were embarrassing. And who knows what's going to happen with the NCAA investigation. It's time to move on...

Matt Gauntt 1 year, 6 months ago

Idiotic Comment. Want to compare coaches? Here's the D1 coaches and their record from the 2010-2011 season

Self - 320 Wins Jay Wright - 286 Wins Calipari - 304 Wins Roy Williams - 289 Wins Mark Few - 336 Wins (in a really weak conference) Bennett (Virginia) - 280 Wins Krzyzewski - 302 Wins

OK - so who would you hire to replace Coach Self? There's only one coach with a better record over the last 10 years.

Doug Roberts 1 year, 6 months ago

You're right, Self has a great regular season record vs the perennially overrated Big 12. That doesn't equate to March Madness wins and National Championships which KU fans expect. I love Bill Self too, but he's not meeting expectations. Keep up with Roy, that's all I ask.

Garry Wright 1 year, 6 months ago

Yeah, keep up with Roy? How many championships did Roy get us? Self has had a much better record for us than Roy and has at least given us one championship. You can have Roy, I'll take Self any day.

Gerry Butler 1 year, 6 months ago

Exactly and Coach Self took over from Roy Boy and how long did it take Coach to get that NCAA title that ROY couldn't do the entire time he was here with the same talent - Thanks I think I'll stick with Bill

Shannon Gustafson 1 year, 6 months ago

Would you like to guess what school has the most tournament wins since 2010? The answer will surprise you (it's the only blue blood to get a win in this tournament). It's difficult to call that underachievement.

Gerry Butler 1 year, 6 months ago

Hey Scooby compare how many NCAA titles Coach has compared to the GOD of GOD and that all might Kentucky powerhouse. - -Self has one -- Calp has ONE in the same amount of length of times and I don't want hear all this crap about how Kentucky has been to so many more - -thats fine - -the question to that is -- DID they win the TITLE - - Self one - -Calipari ONE IN THE SAME TIME FRAME

Mike Hart 1 year, 6 months ago

Keep up with Roy... 14-19 and 18-11 over his last two years at UNC... I'd say he's keeping up with Roy.

Steve Zimmerman 1 year, 6 months ago

Why do people care so much about stats? That's a long history. B12 teams are catching up with us. Can coach BS keep winning B12? Maybe with the right recruits, he can still win with his infamous low-post offense and stellar defense. But things have changed. A lot. In NCAA. And in B12.

Matt Gauntt 1 year, 6 months ago

We were the presumed National Champion last year ...... how's that for recent history.


Steve Zimmerman 1 year, 6 months ago

Good point, but anything could happen in the tourney.

Gerry Butler 1 year, 6 months ago

more then idiotic buddy. I love these Couch Coach's who are always so quick to fire. The better question would be will this new Ad have the courage tio TRY and fire him holy crao batman how long did it take this idiot to sit around Coaching from his recliner and chowing down on his hoagie to come up with that brillant idea - - bu t thanks for dropping in

Steve Zimmerman 1 year, 6 months ago

It's hard to argue, as much as I wish it had nothing to do with the coach. We all watch how athleticism plays big role in order to move forward through April. We also know how 3pt shooting is really important to win it all. We know that good defense is not enough. The questions we should ask ourselves, or the next AD are:

  1. How do we amp up recruitment effort? I'm talking about lean and mean. Guys like Mobley bros, who can dunk, shoot 3s, dribble drives, 6'8'' at least. Not the kinds like Dedric, Wilson, Enaruna. Or Jossell?

  2. How can we adapt to more modern college basketball? With a bunch of meaningful ball movement, 3pt shooting, more focus on offense, rather than sticking to low-post and defense-minded all the time? This doesn't suggest a harsh action. People can adapt.

  3. How can we groom our kids to be better in scoring baskets? They still look pathetic - even after Junior year.

If we can address those 3s. We'll be in better shape every year.

Shannon Gustafson 1 year, 6 months ago

1) Get out from under the NCAA violations cloud so we can bring in guys in that 25-50 range instead of 100-150 range. 2) Remember the Graham/Svi/Newman team from a few years ago that set the KU 3pt record? That was modern basketball. Self does it when the roster allows it. Even this year we played 4 or 5 guards at all times, our shooters just weren't elite like they were a few years ago. 3) See #1 above.

Benjamin Shear 1 year, 6 months ago

No way. You are insane if you think we should fire him.

Bryce Landon 1 year, 6 months ago

What's insane about it? KU should not be paying $5 million or whatever it is to a coach who loses 9-10 games a year and gets his ass beat by football schools in the Round of 32. There are better coaches out there, and Kansas is more than capable of landing one. We could easily hire John Beleien or Porter Moser. Or hell, bring in Andy Enfield - if you can't beat him, hire him!

Gerry Butler 1 year, 6 months ago

Get the hell out of here with that Dam man some people

Shannon Gustafson 1 year, 6 months ago

He doesn't lose 9-10 games a year. When that happens it's a down year for self and it's not happened very many times. I'd have to look it up but he's likely won 30 games more times than he's lost 10 games in a season. Furthermore, we've won more than anyone else so whatever your expectations are, they aren't grounded in reality. If your team wins more than anyone else and you're still complaining we should be winning more, you need to look inside yourself.

Armen Kurdian 1 year, 6 months ago

In 2012, we played for the title against a UK team that was unbeatable, and I'd argue we played our best game of the season against them, they were just that good. Last year we were headed to the F4, no question. We got to the F4 in 2018 and lost to eventual champion Villanova. 2016 we lost to the eventual national champion Villanova. Sans COVID, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Self is going to win another trophy for this school, of that I am positive.

Lance Hobson 1 year, 6 months ago

You morons who said KU would easily handle USC have forfeited any right to ever predict KU games again.

Doug Roberts 1 year, 6 months ago

No, Lew Perkins cowered to the sensitivity mob. We're talking about results. Self really hasn't delivered since 2008. I don't expect a National Championship every year, but when we get to the Final Four I don't expect to get embarrassed like a deer in headlights. Self preaches toughness, but his teams ALWAYS seem to be soft. Why is that? He's had several years to figure it out. I'm just saying maybe he can't figure it out, the hammer is about to be dropped by the NCAA, and maybe we should move on...

Len Shaffer 1 year, 6 months ago

Doug, you are being utterly ridiculous. We were in the Final Four just three years ago!!! And Self has taken us to the Elite 8 in 8 of his 17 seasons (not counting, obviously, last year, in which there was an excellent chance that we would have made the Final Four).

This was no doubt a horrific and embarrassing loss, but recruiting will pick up again once the NCAA investigation is behind us, and at that point we'll be able to get stellar recruits again.

As usual, the haters come out after a bad loss.

Kit Duncan 1 year, 6 months ago

So, was Self such a bad coach that KU ended 2020 as the Number ONE team in the NCAA polls and would almost certainly have been the Number ONE seed if the NCAA had held a post season tournament last year? Is it possible that the investigation into Adidas schools only, Kansas specifically, and none of the Nike schools has hurt recruiting? If it ever occurs that Duke, UNC, Gonzaga, and all the other Nike schools are investigated, is it possible those schools will lose recruits? And possibly coaches?

Keith Gellar 1 year, 6 months ago

That's his point. KU would have been the number one seed, but odds are KU would have lost in the first or 2nd round - upset by a mid major or some crap team with a hot shooting streak. Its turning out to be groundhog day here. Every year, we get hit by the same bullet. You think coach would make some changes? Remember, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. That's where this program is headed .

Shannon Gustafson 1 year, 6 months ago

We've got more tournament wins than any other team since 2010. Hard to do that when you always get knocked out in the first or second round. Either the stats are wrong or your memory isn't as good as you think and you for some reason only focus on the bad years and not the good years.

Layne Pierce 1 year, 6 months ago

First of all it was a helluva coaching job for Coach Self to even rally this bunch after January, and they won 10 out of 11 games, but always they had to play great defense, and make a few shots. Tonight, the defense was medicore and the we simply did not make any shots.

What is hard is that we simply do not have anyone who can almost automatically get a basket, and whom defenses sweat over. We have a bunch of good players, as do 30 or 40 teams n the country. As Coach said we have for KU, a very narrow margin for victory.

However, it cannot be denied that this team tied the record for the worst home loss in KU history, and set the record for the worst loss in NCAA tournament history. The good news is we have 4 starters back, and the bad news is ....

The fact that this was statistically the worst shooting team since 1972, tells you that either we find some shooters, or we will have the same kind of season next year, even if we improve in many other areas. Stands to reason Jalen Wilson will improve again next year, and loookout, Christian Braun will learn to make more than 3 point setshot, and Bryce Thompson will show more of his 5Star talent. And David McCormack will take yet another set forward to greatness. We all knew this was coming, just not this bad.


Steve Zimmerman 1 year, 6 months ago

Ditto! I've already seen it coming long time back. I was surprised we even came this far. So kudos to our coaching staff & KUMBB team! Thank you for the efforts. Congrats to USC. Let's move on. There's nothing to complain about... Don't set your expectation too high for next season either. Or you'll be disappointed, again!!!!

Keith Gellar 1 year, 6 months ago

"First of all it was a helluva coaching job for Coach Self to even rally this bunch after January" - this is something you would read in a KSU messageboard. Just saying. When did we get to this point?

Shannon Gustafson 1 year, 6 months ago

Worst Bill Self team in history spent all but one week ranked, spent more time in the top 10 than the 15-25, got second in the Big 12, was a 3 seed, etc. You're delusional if you think that's KSU material. They basically had a bad 14 day stretch that kept them from being a 2 seed in the "worst season ever". Grow up. They overachieved relative to their talent (which is limited due to the NCAA crap). If you expected this team to make a deep run this year then you must have been watching different games than me. We were elite about 5 times all season, the rest we just found ways to win which is how we overachieved.

Tony Bandle 1 year, 6 months ago

Random Thoughts:

1] ?/**&#@v9$(([=!!!!!!!

2] Well, at least I'm not a Hawkeye fan. Gosh, Bryce, unbelievable!

3] At least we avoided getting humiliated by Gonzaga a second time.

4] USC, Arizona, Stanford.....Wow, the Pac 10 seem to be our NCAA kryptonite.

5] Big 12 blows another NCAA as I'm sure Scott Drew will find a way to screw up Baylor.

6] Everyone on this team needs to use the COVID exception and come back next season.

7] Still 21 victories, 2nd in league, three NCAA seed is a great season for a lot of schools.

8] Wish list for next year: a decent AD, more than 2 victories in football, a team three point shooting percentage better than a seventh grade girls team. herd immunity [go ahead and get your shots], play Missouri in bball and a healthier, happier nation.

Tony Bandle 1 year, 6 months ago

P.S. 9] The story of this team was that they didn't have the excess talent to overcome a bad night. There was little or no margin for error if their opponent was playing well for two halves.

Len Shaffer 1 year, 6 months ago

Tony, I'm with you on everything except playing Misuse. I'm fine if we never play them again and just watch them wallow in their endless mediocrity ...

Armen Kurdian 1 year, 6 months ago

Don't forget UCLA & Oregon. So wanted to win to hand the Pac-12 a loss and salvage some respect for the Big XII.

Bryce Landon 1 year, 6 months ago

For the love of God, Tony, how many fing times do we have to cover this? I don't give a flying f what the Hawkeyes basketball team does, only about the football team.

Tim Orel 1 year, 6 months ago

Seems to me that Iowa didn't have that good a day yesterday either.

Brett McCabe 1 year, 6 months ago

Layne, it’s interesting how many times I’ve seen people post about the great job Self did after January. Who coached the team in January? Does that guy deserve responsibility too?

Brett McCabe 1 year, 6 months ago

Two other points: was that the worst day of second round games in NCAA history? And we’re done with the “toughest conference in the country” talk, right?

Andy Godwin 1 year, 6 months ago

Coaching at a high profile school involves recruiting (by the rules?) top talent. Self has struggled in this key area recently and yes it has been 13 years since a national championship. At a top program it is “what have you done lately” and ultimately it is NC banners that make a program elite. Self is an outstanding X’s and O’s coach, but he needs elite talent to compete and the talent level is arguably average at best - hopefully it will improve. Clearly there are many teams with much better talent (reference tonight’s 34 point loss - worst in program history since 1974) and that the Big 12 (and Big 10) was very much over rated. There is no one on this year’s team that can be considered an elite talent. In most years there is at least one player who could play at the “next level”, but clearly that was not the case this year. If you interview opposing coaches, they would all say there was not one player on KU’s roster who they had to game plan around outside McCormack. It was pretty simple, clog the lanes and challenge KU to shoot 3’s, which was terribly inconsistent. It back fired for Eastern Washington (KU should always beat an EWU) but didn’t against teams with tall and athletic players. Hopefully at least a few of the returning players will take the next step, but KU needs more height, more athleticism (i.e., players who actually play above the rim - I sure missed Udoka’s dunking) and better and more consistent shooters. Watching the NCAA tournament there are many teams who are much more fun to watch. Many of KU’s games this year were flat out boring. Nevertheless, thanks to Marcus Garret who contributed and improved over the years. He clearly gave his all and was the heart of the team. Not sure what to expect for next year, only time will tell.

Benjamin Shear 1 year, 6 months ago

Wall of text. May I suggest inserting some line breaks? I'm more likely to read it if you do. I mean this will all friendliness.

Chris Bailey 1 year, 6 months ago

Try typing this on a smart phone. It's not very easy to do. Great post Andy!

Tim Orel 1 year, 6 months ago

The NCAA infractions case against KU is keeping elite talent from committing to KU unless there's a really special tie-in, like Bryce Thompson. This has been dragging out for years now and still apparently has one or two more years to go. Then, I hope KU can get back to attracting the very best, but the NCAA (imo) has decided that if they can't beat KU in court, they'll hurt KU recruiting enough to get the same punishment onto KU that way.

Layne Pierce 1 year, 6 months ago

Brett Of course Self coached the team in January, and had they played that way for the rest of the year, then some of your criticism would be justified. If you want to criticize, then criticise his inability to recruit players with the NCAA axe over his head. But then no one could.

Somehow next year we have to improve our margain for victory. I know you'll agree and want the best for the Jayhawks.


Doug Cramer 1 year, 6 months ago

This fan base.

Ya’ll wanted Mangino gone and look where that karma has taken us.

Now you want Self gone too ?

Be careful what you ask for.

Bryce Landon 1 year, 6 months ago

What's idiotic about it? When a guy isn't doing the job he's getting paid to do in any other line of work, he should be fired. Bill Self is getting paid to take Kansas to Final Fours and win a national championship more often than once a generation, but he's not doing his job. He has wasted years of talent in the NCAA Tournament, with only three Final Fours and one national title to show for his time at KU when he should have seven Final Fours and two if not three national titles. Only in college basketball can you fail at your job and still keep it, apparently.

Keith Gellar 1 year, 6 months ago

Let me put on my homer hat and pen a response. Self is here because of the 1000s of streaks we have. This is why we pay bill self cause no other coach can get these streaks. - big 12 streak - most tourney appearances streak - ticket sell out streak - pizza/beer sell out streak - no toilets clogged in Phog streak

I think its well established - as long as self keeps these streaks running, fan base is happy and content because they can puff their chests when talking to KSU, MU, WSU, Duke, UK, etc. fans.

Remember, in book of KU homer, Championships aren't remembered...streaks, on the other hand, live on.

Len Shaffer 1 year, 6 months ago

UK - 9-20 UNC - humiliated in the first round Duke - not in the tournament

Should all of their coaches be fired too? Just wondering.

Gerry Butler 1 year, 6 months ago

According to Ol Bryce they should be - -burn them all crappy coach's - -Fire them - - Fire them I say lmao

Daniel Kennamore 1 year, 6 months ago

You just named a group of schools that have won 5 national titles while Self has been coach at KU.

That said, Cal is very close to getting sacked at UK.

Every team has down years, pointing to the worst in a quarter century performance by the other blue bloods that happened to be in the same year when KU returns a more often than not usual first weekend exit doesn’t do anything to justify your position.

Shannon Gustafson 1 year, 6 months ago

More tournament wins than ANY other school since 2010 but yet you claim first weekend losses are the usual outcome. It's hard to justify your position when the facts say otherwise. NOBODY makes it to the elite 8 or final 4 anywhere close to every year. KU gets there about 40% of the time (I think it's 7 out of 17 years?) and that puts us in VERY elite company.

Daniel Kennamore 1 year, 6 months ago

The constant off court issues would be enough to can Self even if he was killing it in March.

The reality of the situation is that Self’s program is a plague of NCAA violations and other off court drama on a yearly basis.

And for what? First weekend exits 4 of the last 7 seasons?

It’s time to clean house and get a fresh start with someone able to recruit to a already top 5 program without all the drama and March face plants.

Bryce Landon 1 year, 6 months ago

That was sickening to watch. A program with Kansas' pedigree has no business losing by 34 to anyone - and especially in the NCAA Tournament, of all places! And yet we got punked the same way that we would treat a Division II team like Washburn or Pitt State. The Trojans f***ed us so hard, we're nine months' pregnant by proxy! I guess getting rolled up by football schools in the Round of 32 is the new norm for us, huh?

RJ King 1 year, 6 months ago

Bryce ... you're just really gross.

Bryce Landon 1 year, 6 months ago

Bill Self is to Jayhawk basketball what Mike Tomlin is to Steeler football. Tomlin had a great stretch where he won Super Bowl XLIII and got the Steelers to Super Bowl XLV, but aside from a trip to the AFC title game that ended with a loss to the Patriots (who then went on to win Super Bowl LI over the Falcons), Tomlin hasn't done anything of note since. And the Steelers have become more noteworthy for drama and underachieving than for winning. Most recently they got stomped by the Browns, of all teams, in their playoff appearance this past season. Tomlin is still living on the laurels of that Super Bowl he won, which may as well be ancient history by now.

And the same thing goes for Bill Self. Sure, he won the national title in 2008 and got the Jayhawks to another national title in 2012. But he hasn't accomplished anything of note since then aside from an appearance in the 2018 Final Four that ended with us getting bitch-slapped by eventual champion Villanova. In the meantime, Kansas has become more noteworthy for postseason underachieving and drama. Self can thank Mario Chalmers for keeping him employed at KU for as long he has been.

But honestly, Self doesn't deserve to be at Kansas anymore. Recruiting has dropped off, the team has missed the Sweet 16 four of the last seven tournaments, and now we're staring at a murky future that could involve a postseason ban for violations that may have happened on his watch. Every season, it seems, there's always a reason why we can't go further in the Tournament than we do. And the common denominator is Bill Self. No one does less with more in March as consistently as he does. (And to everyone who says we would have won the title in 2020 if it had been held, no way of knowing that; for all we know, Self would have found a way to f*** that up too.)

Ever since our 2018 Final Four appearance, I have defended Self as much as possible. But after last night's humiliating debacle, I can't defend him anymore. It's too bad we don't have an AD right now who can whack him and replace him with a coach who can reinvigorate this stagnant program; but I'll say it anyway: FIRE BILL SELF!

Benjamin Shear 1 year, 6 months ago

Go away with this nonsense. Last year we were like Gonzaga is this year.

Bryce Landon 1 year, 6 months ago

Last year was never completed. Like I said, there's a good chance Self would have f***ed up in the Tournament just like he did with other championship-caliber teams of the 2010s. He sucks as a postseason coach, and the postseason is what matters most.


Shannon Gustafson 1 year, 6 months ago

Can we ban this fool before he off's himself when he comes to regret saying this just like he's regretted it in the past?

Listen up toolbag, KU can't have the most Tournament wins of any team since 2010 and also suck in the postseason. You're just the ultimate debby-downer who never played organized backetball, thinks anything but a championship is a failure, and lacks to cognitive ability to think rationally when things don't go the way you think they should (regardless of reality). You should probably go sit in the corner for a couple weeks until your blind rage wears off.

Armen Kurdian 1 year, 6 months ago

Last year we were headed to the F4. No question. Post-season unanimous #1 with a possible trophy snatched from us by an unseen enemy. Yeah I get it, another loss, and we're p'od.

Coach Self is going nowhere despite your 'sage' advice.

Gerry Butler 1 year, 6 months ago

He can't do that - - he doesn't know where that's at and they sure in the hell wouldn't put up with his BS

Bryce Landon 1 year, 6 months ago

Correction, he got us to the national title game in 2012, not the national title.

Armen Kurdian 1 year, 6 months ago

And we lost to a team that wasn't going to lose to anyone, arguably playing our best game of the year in a losing effort. No shame in losing that game.

Robin Smith 1 year, 6 months ago

To the rational people who may have waded down this far into the comments: it's all good, most people are not freaking out like little babies. KU took a tough loss in the tournament from a tough matchup but overall it was a pretty nice season for a down year. Everyone can come back and it will be another good season with everyone growing up more. The journey of growth for these young people as they become adults is the point of college basketball.

Keith Gellar 1 year, 6 months ago

My 2 cents... 1. Loss was expected. Bill Self is terrible when he doesn't have enough time to prepare. Had this game been played next week, we would have won. period. 2. That being said, we would have lost in the next round. Teams just not that good. 3. I've said it a 1000 times and will continue to say it - BIG 12 sucks. Its made up of paper tigers who look great during conference play but fold when in the spotlight. This BIG 12, who we place some much reliance on when touting our SOS, under prepares us each year. When you have teams like Baylor, Texas and WVU being ranked high - you know something is wrong. Its like the volatility indicators in the markets. 4. But i thought we had a crazy SOS? we're playing tough teams? Wrong again. Time to dump all these meaningless metrics. Only helps the KU homers in pumping. 5. My prediction - we are entering into a bear period for KU basketball..KU sports in general. Think about it. With everything that has been going on, all signs point to it. I don't thnk we will hit KSU level, but its going to get bad before it gets worse.

Mike Morris 1 year, 6 months ago

If you guys would all look at our history, March Sadness is a tradition at KU. I mean, Wilt Chamberlain of all people couldn't bring us a title. 1974, 1986, 1997, 2003...all those teams were great enough to win it all and didn't.

But you know what? I love that we're in the conversation ever year. Every. Single. Year. Not many teams can say that. Duke and UK were irrelevant this year. UNC was average at best. UCLA...well, I think we all slept on the Pac-12, but still. However, we finished 2nd in a tough conference with a mid-major roster. I'd say that's not a bad year.

We'll be fine. Everyone step back from the ledge. RCJH!

Ed Noyes 1 year, 6 months ago

USC had superior size & length and they played the best possible game, both halves. HCBS year in and year out is the CEO of a perennial force in college basketball. Given all that is going on related to our basketball program, he saved the season with his management and people skills. Any school or organization would love to have him. RCJHKU!

Mike Barnhart 1 year, 6 months ago

For years, the experts have over-valued the Big 10 and Big 12 while underestimating the Pac 12 and SEC. Over the past decade, the B12 has been (as always) a putrid tournament participant. The fact is, our seed is always 2 slots higher than it should be based on overvaluing the league.

That said, I'd give a HOF coach some time to recognize and fix his own problem. He probably recognizes the OAD era is dead! Loading up on self-serving superstars won Duke one title and Kentucky one title... THAT'S IT! Go get good athletes with toughness (the Bilas kind) and build a program like Jay Wright and Ol' Roy still do.

Benjamin Shear 1 year, 6 months ago

Obiter Dictum:

-Sigh. Tough loss. We all feel it. You know who feels it 10x more? The players and coaching staff. All those guys are competitors, they want to win way more than we want them to win.

-What happened? KU panicked when USC started making every shot. USC kept their defense up and KU, panicking, started to gamble on defense, and not play as a team on offense. This just made things worse. Then the ball rolled down hill and, well...we all saw the end result.

-This will be remembered as the COVID year. No fans in the stands, teams cancelling games, wearing masks when sitting on the bench, the BIG 12 tournament interrupted, ect. Let's not forget that KU was out of sorts because of COVID as well with DMack and Wilson. It's not an excuse, but it is a reality.

-This team...outperformed. All things considered, I would say HCBS and this team performed at their peak. Sure, they came out flat footed against USC, but this team was never going to be much better than they were in March. We all wanted them to be last year's team, but they just weren't that deep or talented.

-A lot of the comments in this thread are ridiculous. Where have you guys been all season? You do realize that USC was way under-seeded? They were ranked #9 by Kenpom whereas KU was #19. KU was able this season, to sometimes play at their ceiling and sometimes they played at their floor. Many of you are delusional about what this team was.

-Finally, thank you to the players and coaches. This is not the season we wanted, but I, for one, am thankful we had a season and a tournament. Thank you, especially, to Garrett for 4 great years. You are welcome back if you want to say!

Keith Gellar 1 year, 6 months ago

"You do realize that USC was way under-seeded?"....

if you read all the messageboards, on the contrary - sentiment was we were going to demolish USC. And these posts are from straight up homers who live and breathe KU bball. To them, USC was just seeded right. Just saying.

Benjamin Shear 1 year, 6 months ago

Sure, to those who are biased. On THIS message board, I pointed out that USC was actually a better team statically. Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug.

David Robinett 1 year, 6 months ago

Enough of the four guard lineup crap. The fact is we should be recruiting more big guys. I don’t know why every other team seems to have multiple 6’10 guys and Kansas doesn’t.

I don’t think our guys choked at all last night. They just could not compete with that height.

I guess you could say some of our starters are just young, but they just don’t seem that great. Jalen rebounds but is limited offensively . Braun lost his shot somewhere. Ochai is athletic but not overly skilled as a basketball player.

I think Coach Self did very well to get this bunch up to a second seed in the big 12. But there is a huge problem in recruiting. If we’re going to be penalized by the NCAA let’s get it over with.

Benjamin Shear 1 year, 6 months ago

To be fair, USC is the tallest team in the NCAA. KU had a hard time competing with that length.

-Jalen is young but has potential.

-Braun's game is too one dimensional. Sure, he can make 3s, but every team knows that and so they close out on him hard. And he lacks the ability to really make teams pay for playing tight on him.

-Ochai is just inconsistent. I really think he will be special next year.

Armen Kurdian 1 year, 6 months ago

CB can drive, and he needs to put on about 10 lbs or so before next season. He lost his shot 2nd half of the year, he just needs to relax a bit.

Ochai was very inconsistent, reminds me of Terry Brown.

Mike Barnhart 1 year, 6 months ago

You can't be both small AND slow! Besides McCormack (against lesser talented bigs), this team virtually never scored at the rim

Steve Zimmerman 1 year, 6 months ago

You want more big guys in our roster - you meant with athleticism, right? The problem is those guys will not pick KU because of low-post oriented offense and defense-minded coach. Plus NCAA drama is still looming over our program. Trust me, if coach is willing to expand his horizon, adapting and welcoming more 3pt shooting and not so focus on low-post, he'll attract lean & tall shooters, runner & gunner kinds.

Barry Weiss 1 year, 6 months ago

after our wins, we maybe have 10 comments or so on here. after a loss.....whoa. I guess that's how it goes. we just did not have the elite athletes USC had. Hopefully we get DMac some more help in the paint and a lotto type point guard, with some great 3 ball shooters thrown in. this is a tough loss to think about all summer, but we will come back strong.

David McNickle 1 year, 6 months ago

This team was similar to the 2009 team. The 2008 team won it all and then all but two of the players that played turned pro. If last year's team would've won it all, this year's team would've been given a lot more slack. One thing is for sure with Self's teams, need a PG that can score and more importantly get to the hole to open up the floor. Need a rim protector that allows the other players to not need to leave their man to help. Had both of those last year and we had a great chance.

David Atchley 1 year, 6 months ago

Kansas is lucky to have Bill Self, very few would argue that point. What is glaringly obvious, whether its the shroud of NCAA regulators or COVID recruiting restrictions, is the game has changed and Kansas wasn't prepared from a recruiting standpoint. The loss of big man Silvio De Sousa was necessary, but left a gaping hole and easy for opponents to defend against the only big man on the Kansas roster.

Texas is tall, Baylor is tall, Eastern Washington is tall, USC is tall. Meanwhile, Kansas with the exception of McCormack, has an entire team of players that are practically the same size and physique, and easily pushed around in the paint and boards.

A program that has been known for true point guards, has no true point guard on the entire team. Garrett did a serviceable job converting to a point guard, but his strength has always been as a 2 guard. A program that has been rich in power forwards over the years, played this season without any power forwards on the entire team.

Kansas doesn't need a new coaching staff. The Athletic Department at Kansas could not endure another upheaval. It's already an embarrassment that Kansas may never overcome. What they need is the existing coaching staff to re-commit to recruiting the type of players that have made the program rich in tradition and success.

Benjamin Shear 1 year, 6 months ago

This year was like coming off winning a National Championship. Of course it was a down year. I don't blame HCBS for not recruiting.

David Atchley 1 year, 6 months ago

When in your opinion, would be a better time to recruit than coming off a winning season? A Head Coach only has 3 objectives, recruit, develop and coach.

Steve Zimmerman 1 year, 6 months ago

"to re-commit to recruiting the type of players" - That's a challenge, David. When they're expected to only provide assistance to the main big and execute stellar defense - who's going to come to KU? Only the leftovers, or guys with average size with good athleticism.

Benjamin Shear 1 year, 6 months ago

We had Roy Williams for 15 seasons. His philosophy was to only recruit every 3 years. Yup, he literally said that once. HSBC recruits every year. But after the success of a NC, most of the top players leave for the NBA or are seniors. That's just the way of it. You can't replace all of that at once.

James Donnell 1 year, 6 months ago

Really didn’t expect us to win. Figured we would get killed on the boards and have little scoring in the paint. Had to rely on 3-pt shooting which has never been that good honestly. If you look at the talent level in the tournament field, you could make a case for just about all our players coming off the bench for many of the other teams. Garrett is maybe the one who is a solid starter for about anyone. All things considered, the team did pretty well this season except for the disaster yesterday (and also the UT home loss).

We obviously need some elite athletes with size and speed, and guys who can shoot and create their own shot. Did you notice all that weaving last night? Weaving to nowhere and no one could get a shot off. We may be better next year with the same guys we have but not good enough to make a big leap when you see the fabulous players that are out there.

Blake Brown 1 year, 6 months ago

Im grateful that we had a season and a tournament. I'm grateful it's over for us as I dont think I can take another first half atrocity. I'm still happy with Self and the players and know they did their best to deal with an extremely difficult and unprecedented ordeal with the pandemic restrictions. It'll take a few days for this embarrassing loss to dissipate, but it will and I'll move on and look forward to the final games of this post season and to next year. This is the time when we should all be coming together and appreciate what we have had and look forward to all the good things in the future. Rock Chalk Jayhawk.

Blake Brown 1 year, 6 months ago

I just read Marcuscomments in a separate article and it echoes so much of what I am saying above. He credits Self for helping him to be a man and the first one in his family to graduate from a college. This is whats really important in the scheme of college sports IMHO.

Kenneth Johnson 1 year, 6 months ago

I’ve been a KU fan since 1951, and have seen over a thousand Jayhawk games, and don’t believe I have ever seen as embarrassing display as KU showed last night. The Jayhawks simply didn’t do anything right, and let USC easily do whatever they wanted. I’ve never left a KU game in my life, but at 6 minutes to go, I had to leave before they made me puke. A terrible end to what promised to be a Final Four season.

And just to add salt in the wound, two teams led by former Jayhawks (players in the mid-80s), got scorched. Coached by Tad Boyle, Colorado lost by 19 to Florida State. Then Maryland, coached by Mark Turgeon, also lost by 19 to Alabama.

All in all, this has to be one of the worst days in Jayhawk basketball history.

Ken Johnson (KU '70)

Garry Wright 1 year, 6 months ago

I've been a Jayhawk fan since 1952. We've had far worse seasons during these years. Yes, this was a bad game, but I don't lose any sleep over one game. I watched the game in it's entirety and had a good night's sleep. There's always the next game and the next season. Frankly I don't even lose any sleep over a bad season. We haven't had a bad season for 39 years, the 81-82 season under Owens. We've had our very best years under Coach Self.

Chris Bailey 1 year, 6 months ago

When we lost Danny Manning as a big men coach we lost a big piece of our recruiting. Yes I know we've had some decent big men since but lets face it we haven't had near the consistent big play since he left. It seems like we did ok for a few years after he left but then things went south. Bring back DM as lead recruiter and let him coach the big men!!!

Armen Kurdian 1 year, 6 months ago

DM may coach in the NBA, but I don't think he will do well...he hasn't shown the ability to be a solid head coach, but player development? 2nd to none.

Steve Zimmerman 1 year, 6 months ago

Nope, I dont' believe his style will last us in the tourney. Look at Howard - that's a powerful coaching. Can't rely on bigs to post all the time. This is not 1990s anymore.

Tony Bandle 1 year, 6 months ago

I'll choose the glass half full:

1] 21 total victories with only one loss out of 14 games [albeit ugly] at home.

2] 2nd in the conference and being the only team besides ISU to play 18 games.

3] In the Top 25 every week except one during the season.

4] Keeping our NCAA appearance streak alive at 31 while UK, Duke and Michigan St.didn't.

5] One of only two teams to beat Baylor.

6] Being named a third seed in the NCAA Tournament.

7] Cutting into UK's victories lead with a whole bunch of wins.

8] And I'm still a Jayhawk from the University of Kansas.

Blake Brown 1 year, 6 months ago

Another classy post- thanks for staying positive and pointing out some of the better stats at a time when all time or long time futility records are being broken. Repeat- #8

Chad Durbin 1 year, 6 months ago

Here we go again with the sky is falling... thanks Chicken Little, now move along. HCBS made the most out of the Covid season. He took this team farther than they really should have gone. How easy is it to forget he is dealing with 17-22 y.o kids that are still growing and learning the game. How many of you wanted Marcus Garrett to quit shooting the ball a few years ago because he could hit a 3 to save his life? HCBS doesn’t generally hand the reigns over to a young player aka: Harris, but wait for it. I agree with the statement above bring back Danny Manning as a bigs coach, it couldn’t hurt, and he may be available. KU has recruits coming, they may not be a Wiggins, or a Jackson, but let them develop, be kids and enjoy the game. Yes, last nights game was hard to watch but it was USC, who are a good team, but at least it wasn’t a first round exit like Texas against Abil TX. I am looking forward to next years team and more HCBS coaching achievements.

Bryce Landon 1 year, 6 months ago

You say that as if there's anything to look forward to. The only player we lose is Marcus Garrett, but we basically bring back the same bunch of misfits who can't hit a layup, can't dribble, can't score, can't guard, can't defend the perimeter, and can't do anything else worth a $#!+. And what if we get slapped with a postseason ban? What will there be to achieve?

Thomas Harrison 1 year, 6 months ago

Due to our inexcusable affiliation with Adidas that led to significant NCAA violation allegations, we have not been able to recruit high level players for at least 3 years.

4 of KU's most highly sought after recruits over the last 3 years started at Villanova,Houston, Duke,and Louisville instead of KU.If we had only one of those guys, we would have been a much better team in 2021.

Kansas State officials should be held responsible for resolving the NCAA issues ASAP, ensuring proper outcome for the future.

Most critics would agree that KU's basketball program has been the best in NCAA Divison 1 for many years, a real jewel!! I sincerely hope that we don't let the NCAA bury that treasure. Attorneys may be needed to ensure that outcome!!!

Sean Doherty 1 year, 6 months ago

Bill Self has reached the point where he can't keep KU relevant anymore. It's time for new blood and move away from the Adidas scandal. He's lost his edge and he is done. He has no incentive to produce at 100 percent. He's set too many records, won a national championship, is already in the hall of fame, and gets paid millions and millions a year. He can't catch coach K records. He might as well help himself and KU bball. Go to the NBA make more money for himself and let KU hire some really good new blood who has all the talent and ambition Bill Self had 20 years ago. KU needs new talent at all coaching positions.

Bryce Landon 1 year, 6 months ago

Yes, thank you, Sean! Finally, someone else who gets it!

Matt Lindaman 1 year, 6 months ago

  1. Count me as impressed with the job Bill Self has done at KU. It takes a great deal of luck to win it all, but a good chance of being in the finals last year taken away. With the landscape of college ball these things go in cycles with it nearly impossible to reach that level every year. Another of my points will be on the latest landscape change. For the nearly impossible, see Kentucky or Duke. Even when Roy would win a NC at UNC it would be every few years on a cycle that saw him get a good class or two in a row, get clobbered for one or two years, then have a bunch of third and fourth years that were NBA quality. Coach K would do it with a mix of half vets and a killer 2 or 3 person class. Even these patterns don't work so well anymore.
  2. My only knock on the team is that all the players seem to be kind of the same, 6-5 to 6-7, not "built like a football player," not Langfordesque as slashers, at times great three-point shooters, but other times not, tantalizing potential on D, but not always. Kind of like a whole team of Svi's, but no slasher or point guard.
  3. Will leave the recruiting, however, to those in the know. As soon as I notch my first D-1 coaching victory, I will have exactly one! Most here are probably in the same boat.
  4. With point 3 in mind, however, what might be interesting is to ask how the transfer market will impact KU in the furture. Any thoughts? I don't like it but do think it is what has changed the landscape at this time, along with what I might call the "Mature faster principle" (this is where kids skip a high school grade, declare for college early, so they can go pro early. Again, ten years ago (the post Simeon era of history), "going" pro early meant after three years, maybe two. Now, there is thoughts of failure if the jump is not made by age 21.
  5. Some comments here about others in the Big 12 "catching uo." I don't see that as the case. If Baylor rattles off the next fives conference titles, then I will consider. Baylor has always been there for potential, but this year has the elder guard combo (almost like unicorns in that they are so good, yet even now only considered late first or early second round draft picks). Sure Texas beat us twice, but they should have done this so many times in the past. Or, are we to long for those easy days in the past when we were able to play those patsy Kevin Durant Longhorn teams, or the Beasley Wildcat teams? Or, those days OU had that absolute stud of a forward-I much rather went against him than Brady Manek. Sure TT has improved, but Beard has gone the transfer route to do that. Again, will we play ball in this market? Didn't USC have the one Mobley transfer in, then they get the high recruit brother. Seems another one or two of their players transferred in as well. They now play Oregon. I think Duarte was originally a transfer. This year alone the Ducks added Figueroa, Williams, and that other 6-6 player..

Garry Wright 1 year, 6 months ago

I'm really sick of all of the many negative posts on here. I'm really glad that there's still a good number who have posted positive remarks and are looking forward to the future with Coach Bill Self. I know that I am. The past 18 years have been the best in KU's history of basketball. In fact the last 39 have been nothing to hang our heads in shame. That's how long we've had consecutive non-losing seasons. In 122 years we've only had 16 losing seasons and six of those were under Naismith. We're pretty spoiled!

Chad Durbin 1 year, 6 months ago

Wondering how many of the Chicken Little’s ever played D1 basketball? I would say none of them. Yes, I played small college basketball and the level of talent the KU players have is unbelievable. Throw in the rigors of academics, and being in a bubble for most of the season... what they achieved is unbelievable. Now having served as a leader of men in the US Army for 31 years, and dealing with 17-22 y.o, and having a 21 y.o son of my own.... at times they can’t find their ass with both hands. HCBS has a solid grasp of recruiting, and talent. He has also proved that he can change his style of play from year to year, if needed, and have some success. This is what happens when teams have the success that KU has had. KU will be back on top soon, but the Chicken Littles will always believe the sky is falling.

Bryce Landon 1 year, 6 months ago

We don't have to have played or coached college basketball to know bad play and bad coaching when we see it. Just like you don't have to work in retail to know bad customer service when you get it. When people aren't doing their jobs well or right, then other people have not only the right but the duty to call them on the carpet for it.

Gerry Butler 1 year, 6 months ago

Man don't know what some of you would of done if you would have had to go through the good ol Teddy days - -Great recruiter but he couldn't Coach a cold - -pathetic - some of you would of had a cardiac.- - Hell a person could get any seat he wanted at the Phog a lot of half filled games if that during those days - -those were some days - you would of never made it.

For people crying about Coach Self - -your not a fan - well take that back your a fair weather fan a band wagon fan. True fans take the bad with the good quit your ficken sniffling or better yet got a better idea you want Coach Self out then how about you just trot right on down to the Athletic Dept and say you wanna apply for the head Coaching job and replace Coach Self show them your un-believable Coaching talents - - HELL won't have to' EVER worry about losing another game and have them just mail us the NCAA titles trophys- -not even play the tourney. Your Coaching is incredible , I'm sure the Dept would love for you to apply roflmao

Bill Corey 1 year, 6 months ago

I posted this several years ago when Wisconsin was in NC game. Unfortunately, things have not changed....

I think HCBS would ideally like to develop a team like Wisconsin has done. Which is great if you want to make it to the NC game every 71 years. I know we don't want a sleezy program like Kentucky. And one could argue that Cali**** has under performed with the talent he has had recently. So the solution is a better handling of OAD's and mixing with experienced players. However, HCBS is so rigidly wedded to an inside-out offense. Sure it's been successful with an 83% winning record. However, I see too few professional teams that play inside-out. Sure they have big centers to protect the rim and rebound but, anymore, they rarely run their offense through the center. Exception Duncan with San Antonio. At one time Shaq. But anymore the pro scoring is outside, 3 point shots, and wings slashing to the basket. And potential guard/wing OAD's know this and I think they want to go to college programs that will let them shine. HCBS will not allow that much freedom so we are often not attractive to really talented guard/wing OAD's. Let's hope we can shore up the low post and get back to Billy Ball. Win Big 12 and, unfortunately, flame out in NCAA again and again and again. Dunno! Unless HCBS can modify his coaching. If you don't agree be kind. I readily confess I know virtually nothing about basketball and I am the world's worst basketball player. But I've been loyal through 27 seasons since '88. I'd like another NC before I die but.................

Steve Zimmerman 1 year, 6 months ago

Yep... And we've seen good things happen when we have adapted other team's style (link). But, you know HCBS, we all know him. He would rather play the grind it out, slow pace offense, inefficient ball movement, throw to bigs, drive to the basket... I just don't understand.

Shannon Gustafson 1 year, 6 months ago

Bryce, there will be transfers (both out and in). Self won't just run it back with the same squad. There will likely be some transfers out of the program that nobody saw coming.

Carolyn Hunzicker 1 year, 6 months ago

Braun needs to be taught HOW to play defense He is not very good at it. And he needs to learn how to get open and SHOOT<<< QUIT dribbling and passing the ball. If you notice when he gets the ball he is ALWAYS looking for some to pass it to immediately....Not looking for a shot.

Agbaji is about the SAME

Bill................Forget the Hi Low Game

Maybe just Maybe......Danny Manning should come on and help!

Benjamin Shear 1 year, 6 months ago

Wow, the haters really come out of the woodwork after that loss. Where have you all been all season long? So many lurkers came out of hiding to post vitriol. It's ok to be upset, disappointed, and mad at the loss. But it's not rational to claim HCBS or the Jayhawks are massive failures. The data just does not back up that conclusion.

Bryce Landon 1 year, 6 months ago

On the contrary, Bill Self IS a massive postseason failure, if you look at the data:

Of Self's 16 losses in the NCAA Tournament, 12 have come against lower seeds. Seventy-five percent of Self's Tournament losses with KU are upsets.

Five of Self's Tournament losses came against schools from what is now the FCS division of NCAA Division I (Bucknell, 2005; Bradley, 2006; Northern Iowa, 2010; Virginia Commonwealth, 2011; Wichita State, 2015). By contrast, Roy Williams only had one such loss with KU (Rhode Island, 1998).

Self has lost four times to double-digit seeds (#14 Bucknell, 2005; #13 Bradley, 2006; #11 VCU, 2011; #10 Stanford, 2014). By contrast, the lowest seed Roy Williams ever lost to was #9 Texas El-Paso in 1992.

Self's teams have suffered double-digit defeats in their NCAA Tournament losses in five of the past six tournaments, going back to 2015. The only exception was the 2016 Elite Eight loss to Villanova, which was a five-point loss. That means Self's teams have lost by double digits four years in a row.

In Elite Eight games, Self has a losing record of 3-5 - a record that could easily be 1-7 if Davidson hits that buzzer-beating 3 or if Grayson Allen's final shot in regulation doesn't spin out. Self's Elite Eight winning percentage is .375. By contrast, Larry Brown and Roy Williams combined to take Kansas to the Elite Eight seven times and went a combined 6-1 in those games for a winning percentage of .875. Among Self's Elite Eight losses is the stinker vs. Oregon in 2017 in which Kansas had a virtual home game in Kansas City - how do you not win an Elite Eight game when you're playing in your own backyard?

And if you still want to point to the 2008 national title as evidence of Self's coaching genius, think again. Self didn't win the national title; he backed into it. If Memphis hits their free throws, or if Memphis fouled Sherron Collins as he was trying to bring the ball up the court in the final seconds of regulation, or if Mario Chalmers misses that game-tying three, would any of you still think of Bill Self as a coach who can do no wrong?

The data DOES support the fact that Bill Self is a postseason coaching failure. And the fact that fans like you are unwilling to acknowledge that fact all because you still dream about the night Mario Chalmers ripped Memphis' heart out back in the cave days is what pisses me off the most.


Sean Doherty 1 year, 6 months ago

Hater, I am not. I've posted this before the season started. Tell me a rebuttal Bill Self would have any claims to the opposite of this post.

Bill Self has reached the point where he can't keep KU relevant anymore. It's time for new blood and move away from the Adidas scandal. He's lost his edge and he is done. He has no incentive to produce at 100 percent. He's set too many records, won a national championship, is already in the hall of fame, and gets paid millions and millions a year. He can't catch coach K records. He might as well help himself and KU bball. Go to the NBA make more money for himself and let KU hire some really good new blood who has all the talent and ambition Bill Self had 20 years ago. KU needs new talent at all coaching positions.

Shannon Gustafson 1 year, 6 months ago

Bryce, when KU is a 1 or 2 seed every year then there is essentially no chance to not have an upset loss short of getting to the championship game and statistically most 1 and 2 seeds do not make it to the championship game so there is no reason to expect KU to make it every year. Statistically we make it to Elite 8's and Final 4's about as much as other teams with the same seed as us. So you're "stats" are ignoring the fact that KU is extremely successful year after year and then penalizing us for being a high seed.

You seem to think the tournament is somehow some thing where upsets only happen to KU. They call it March Madness for a reason. We are not unique in this respect. Virginia lost to a 16 seed 2 tournaments ago and a 14 or 15 seed this year, Duke lost to a 15 seed in the first game a few years ago, Kentucky missed the tournament entirely (and lost in the first round of the NIT the last time they missed it, this year they were so bad they couldn't even get into the NIT). Roy got foot stomped in the play-in game by a double digit seed, Ohio St and Texas got stomped by double digit seeds. Iowa got stomped by a 7 seed. It happens every year and there is no reason to expect ANY team to be immune from it. Texas has lost to a double digit seed the last 5 times they've been in the tournament! In a single elimination tournament NO team is safe and more often than not, the best team in the country does not win it all.

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