Advertisement

Tuesday, December 8, 2015

Big minutes?: Callers question playing time

Kansas forward Hunter Mickelson (42) rejects a shot by Loyola guard Eric Laster (5) during the second half, Tuesday, Dec. 1, 2015 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas forward Hunter Mickelson (42) rejects a shot by Loyola guard Eric Laster (5) during the second half, Tuesday, Dec. 1, 2015 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Advertisement

A pair of Bill Self “Hawk Talk” radio-show callers had big-man minutes on their minds Monday night.

Asked about the use of senior forward Hunter Mickelson (two minutes in Saturday’s 75-69 victory over Harvard and 8.4 mpg average in seven contests), Kansas University coach Self stated: “Hunter deserves an opportunity. I’ve got to give him more of an opportunity. I’ve given everybody a chance but Hunter. There’s no question about that.”

The 6-foot-10 Jonesboro, Arkansas, native had a productive summer playing for KU’s gold-medal-winning World University Games team.

“The only thing that’s happened so far this year that’s a little bit negative is the fact we’ve got six big guys that are pretty good, and three of them can’t red-shirt. Landen (Lucas) has already red-shirted. Jamari (Traylor) has already red-shirted. Hunter has already red-shirted,” Self said.

“Your most talented, gifted kids physically are your younger kids,” he added, apparently referring to freshman forwards Cheick Diallo and Carlton Bragg. “There would be no reason to red-shirt them. They are not going to be here four years. So there is kind of a tight play there for minutes.”

Senior Perry Ellis, an All-America candidate, is the other big, and he, of course, if healthy figures to remain a starter all season.

One Monday caller asked about minutes for freshmen Bragg and Diallo, who went nine and seven minutes respectively vs. Harvard.

“My assistants ... we talk about this all the time ... just because somebody is projected to be something doesn’t mean they can’t get it, but they also have to earn it,” Self said. “There’s other kids who have busted their butt for two or three years who are trying hard, too. I’m a big believer that the best players play. Over time, though, usually freshmen will prevail if they are talented enough.

“Early in the season ... go back to Julian Wright, to Mario Chalmers, to a lot of good players we’ve had early in the season (who didn’t play much). It’s a big jump from high school. It’s a big jump to understanding pace and how tough you need to play in order to play at a high level. I think it’s something that will play itself out, and everything will be obvious later on. Right now, it’s not obvious because everybody deserves the right to have an opportunity. Hunter’s really the only one who hasn’t had that opportunity yet,” Self added.

As far as the usual opening five of Ellis, Traylor, Wayne Selden Jr., Devonté Graham and Frank Mason III, Self said: “We’re probably going to mix up our starting lineup for the Holy Cross game (7 p.m. Wednesday, Allen Fieldhouse). I don’t know exactly what direction we’re going to go.”

Self also had words of praise for junior forward Lucas, who grabbed eight boards in 24 minutes and did a good job guarding Harvard’s Zena Edosomwan on Saturday.

“Landen and Frank had more to do with us winning the game the other night than anybody else,” Self said. “Landen was the only guy who could guard No. 4 (Zena) without trapping the post. Landen played very well against Vanderbilt (Maui Invitational final). He basically gets us off to a great start the second half. ... It’s different when you don’t have to trap the post, folks,” Self added on his show. “He’s the one defender we have you don’t have to trap the post.”

Self admitted he does have a problem a lot of coaches would like to have. He has a lot of guys who can play extended minutes at this level.

“It is fair to say, if you’ve got 12, how are you gonna play 12?” Self said. “That’s fair. I mean, because it is hard to do that. When you have 10, I think you may have a case to play 10. You may play nine, and one is your odd man out until an injury occurs or something like that.

“It’s a marathon, not a sprint,” he added of the season. “The whole thing is, you want to do what is best for your team and your guys.”

Greene returning soon: KU junior Brannen Greene has one game remaining on his six-game suspension.

“He’s had a good attitude in practice. All he has to do is just come out there and try to be one of us and do the things that give him a chance to be a good player, which will in turn obviously help our team,” Self said. Greene will be eligible to play in Saturday’s game against Oregon State, set for a 7 p.m. tipoff in Sprint Center.

Polls: KU is ranked No. 7 in the country in the USA Today coaches poll this week, down a slot from last week. KU is ranked No. 2 in the AP poll.

Comments

Jonathan Unruh 6 years, 5 months ago

Hunter is capable of so many good things. He will shine and be more consistent than anyone.

Brian Wilson 6 years, 5 months ago

I agree. BS is playing Lucas now to get him more experience for next year while indicating that as we get into league play and tournament you will see more of Hunter. Hunter has more game at this point and soon it will be his turn, Once Hunter gets his minutes it will be nearly impossible to keep him out of the lineup down the stretch. Just my opinion but we shall see. I mean Hunter could end up not playing well and then who knows. But, IMO, Hunter will prove his value and Lucas will get a lot of minutes and attention next year in the rotation.going down the stretch when its his turn.

Kent Richardson 6 years, 5 months ago

Looks like it was (Perry), Traylor, Lucas, Bragg, Mickelson and Diallo?

It is now Traylor, Lucas, Diallo, Bragg and Mickelson?

What is our best bet for success two months from now?

What would be the most realistic projection?

Traylor is starting why? Do we have to "trap the post?"

Bob Thompson 6 years, 5 months ago

Hunter is outstanding when he is playing against a post player that stays in the post, and doesn't have quick moves, in fact their is no one better on KU's team. If we are playing a team where Hunter has to leave the post and guard the outside, that becomes a problem. Hunter is good on offense, and has a nice shot. I can see games where he will get a lot of playing time.

Jared Reeves 6 years, 5 months ago

I agree with HCBS that Lucas is our only big who is strong enough to match up against other really big guys. I am glad that HCBS acknowledged that he hasn't given Hunter more an opportunity.

It seems like HCBS always has a reason (excuse) for not playing Hunter. Korea Hunter didn't cease to exist. He was our best big in Korea for a reason. Hunter may not be able to guard other really big guys as well as Lucas, or rebound as well, but he is a much better shot blocker and better offensively. I think depending on the situation the benefits outweigh the positives.

I think the problem is that when Ellis is in the game, we have to make-up for what he lacks. Ellis can't rebound or defend really big guys. Rather than sit Ellis when he is really struggling, like he did for long stretches last game, and give Hunter an opportunity, HCBS lets Ellis play through his mistakes, which allows the other team to go on runs.

Jared Reeves 6 years, 5 months ago

Oops. I meant to say, "I think depending on the situation, the benefits outweigh the (costs)."

Marius Rowlanski 6 years, 5 months ago

The biggest reason Hunter isn't playing is because HCBS has so far struck out in landing ANY quality bigs for next year. He may very well need Lucas to play big minutes next year and he is willing to sacrifice Hunter to develop Lucas.

Raw deal for Hunter who is a much better player than Lucas on both ends of the court.

Allan Olson 6 years, 5 months ago

I can hardly watch the game at home without yelling at Lucas's performance on both ends. He can't make a layup or gets the ball taken away by bringing it down to guard's level so much. Mickelson is soooooooo much more of a shooter, shot blocker and passer, but seem' s to get only about 1/4 of the minutes allowed to Lucas. At best they both should play equal time. Can somebody explain this situation to me. Heck, if Lucas could have made his 4-5 missed layups, we would be undefeated.

Mick Allen 6 years, 5 months ago

A lack of strength on post defense also cost Diallo minutes in the Harvard game. When he was inserted in the first half he was asked to cover the 6'10" Harvard big man who I believe had a double- double. Twice he backed Diallo down to 5 feet in front of the of the rim and hit 2 straight jump hooks directly over Diallo. Lucas has the mass and strength to put a body on the big man to make it harder for the offensive player to force him down into the low post. While Mickelson is not as slightly built as Diallo, he does not provide the girth and strength Lucas does. Hunter's value defensively as we all know, is as a rim protector.He gets most of his blocks on weak side help defense. A talent, from a quickness, lift and timing standpoint Lucas does not provide. As stated, offensively Hunter has considerably more game, but when he is on the court there is not the concerted effort to post him up. I see the value of both big men, but hopefully Hunter's mpg will go from an average of 8 minutes per game to 15, but we have the familiar problem of too many quality players and not enough minutes. I thought we might red shirt Vick, but I assume coach wants another ball handler if Frankie or Devonte go down.

Jared Reeves 6 years, 5 months ago

Mick, great analysis. Can we redshirt Vick after he already played in a game?

Mike Riches 6 years, 5 months ago

No, he could have redshirted after the exhibition games because he's a freshman, but not after playing in an actual game. Unless of course it's a medical redshirt.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Jared. With all due respect, if you don't understand that a player can't redshirt after appearing in 4 regular season games, or you were unaware that Vick had played that many games, perhaps filling these boards with your theories and opinions (and launching into a barrage of insults when your opinions are debunked) isn't the best idea.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 5 months ago

Hey Jay are your rules to post on here published somewhere? I am sure we would all want to make sure to follow them so we don't offend you. Wait thats right you don't control what is posted. Maybe you forgot that. Your get a say, Jared gets one too. Quit filling these boards with your version on how they should be run. No one cares.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Rod. There are no such "rules". The reality that you and your type dislike is that when you make idiotic comments, as you consistently do, others are free to expose them as such.

I personally hope that you and your Chicken Little gang keep making nonsensical statements about how awful Self is and how the sky is falling. It's enjoyable to see your type humiliate themselves.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 5 months ago

Not true Jay wrong again.

I can;t stand mindless drivel like yours. We don't need a class clown on here who thinks they can police the comments cause they think they have some weird sense of empowerment.

If you were paying attention, which I know you are not, I have never put Self down, or ever suggest he should be replaced. ever. You don't know that cause your eyes turn red with hate and you just blast everyone, like today. I might make blunt comments, but dude you are off in never never land. Its like you have completely lost touch.

You feel bad about yourself so your only response is to belittle others.

You look silly. You fly off the handle easily and you are out of control. Deal with it.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

You wrote that rant to tell someone else "You look silly. You fly off the handle easily and you are out of control. Deal with it." That's classic.

Jared Reeves 6 years, 5 months ago

Jay, I don't feed trolls. Find another interlocutor. (Feel free to have the last word).

Marius Rowlanski 6 years, 5 months ago

"interlocutor" Damn...needed to look that up.

Kenneth Johnson 6 years, 5 months ago

Get real. Mikelson is a lot better player than Lucas. Granted, Lucas has a pretty good game against Harvard, but where was he against Michigan State (or any other top school)?

I don't usually question Self's coaching, but I don't know why he continues to give substantially more time to Lucas. Is it because Lucas will be here next year, and Mikelson won't?

Marius Rowlanski 6 years, 5 months ago

Diallo backed down only because he was trying to avoid fouls not because he wasn't strong enough. Diallo will learn to stand his ground without fouling as he gains experience. Lucas is a little more savvy on defense but he is miserable when on offence. He does play the hi-low and is good at getting the ball to the low post but he lacks any sense of touch and still hasn't developed a go-to shot. He tries to shoot a little jump hook but I think he is better when shooting a 10-12 ft jumper but sometimes he just won;'t take that shot even when open..

Mick Allen 6 years, 5 months ago

Jared, I believe he has already played too much. I would guess he has played in all but 2 of our games to date.

Mick Allen 6 years, 5 months ago

Jay, you are of course correct, but your response to Jared was a little heavy handed and mean spirited.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Only a little? I'm sure it's much less so than the ugly endless criticism of a Hall of Fame coach by someone who apparently doesn't understand the simplest concepts of roster management.....

RJ King 6 years, 5 months ago

Thank you Mick. Classy as always.

For anyone who just landed here, you might scroll down to Ron Prichard's comment, then get back to work. Nothing to see here.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 5 months ago

Love it, and yes I know it applies to me sometimes!

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

I read yesterday from a member of the Chicken Little contingent that these forums, and I'm sure these radio shows serve an important purpose. They allow a Hall of Fame coach like Self to learn how to run a basketball team properly from the wise advice of callers and commentators. AD Zenger also uses this feedback, so we're told, to measure the support for the coach from the geniuses among us and determine whether to keep the 12 time defending Big12 champion coach or to fire him. Thank goodness for all this.....

Rodney Crain 6 years, 5 months ago

Jay try to use more labels for people it makes you look smarter...

Mick Allen 6 years, 5 months ago

Tongue in cheek much Jay? I agree with you though that we have a hall of fame coach who has forgotten more basketball than all of us collectively know and I don't ever want anyone other than Self to coach us during my lifetime.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Are you sure Mick? I mean there are so many fans who are so amazingly knowledgeable.... I bet a coaching staff comprised of Roddy Crain, Jared Reeves, James Smith and Brett McCabe would win the next 10 national titles....

James Smith 6 years, 5 months ago

Sweet good to see that you are starting to value our opinions! Fun to see how you cannot have an intelligent conversation about sports and feel that just cyber bullying is the best way to spend your time on here.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 5 months ago

Jay maybe you should take a break, you seem stressed out buddy lol.

Its just a game blow hard. Here is a tip you can always just ignore our posts.

Its not a crime to ask the team you cheer for to play better.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

It's also not a crime to mock your nonsense. Tired of that? Maybe you could stop posting nonsense?

Rodney Crain 6 years, 5 months ago

Can't take a break when someone like you is on the loose thinking they are all that. You make it so easy to mock your silly negative responses. You are so predictable lol.

I SHALL DEFEND OUR TEAM... COCHES. It is my job to police this site.

Take a timeout little guy.

It will all be ok... Its ok to want your team to play better. It really really is...

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Thanks for posting yet another excellent example of nonsense. It mocks you better than anyone else could.

Benz Junque 6 years, 5 months ago

You aren't defending KU players or coaches. You posted 11 times on this thread any only actually mentioned our players or coaches ONCE. The rest of your posts were just insulting other posters.

Brett McCabe 6 years, 5 months ago

?

And I thought that Rodney was annoying.

Find a comment where I've ever questioned Self's coaching. I'm smart enough to know that I'm too dumb to question Self's X's and O's. However, this is a fan forum, so the idea is that people who do want to question the coach are allowed to express their opinions.

But, since I'm on the list, I will say that I don't like OAD's and I did not like the way Self criticized Perry so publicly - I believe that it crossed the line. And, I do believe that it's been too long since we've been to a Final Four, which falls directly at the feet of the head coach.

Check me out during football season, though, if you want some wickedly insightful commentary.

James Smith 6 years, 5 months ago

OMG great laugh here. Brett never thought you would be called out by Jay but somewhere you had to say something wrong. Jay knows all.

Ross Hartley 6 years, 5 months ago

What a spoiled putz! We were just in Final Four in 2012.

Matthew Peters 6 years, 5 months ago

Jay if you didnt know he couldnt redshirt then....what do you know.

Matthew Peters 6 years, 5 months ago

Dont have a tirade when someone calls you out....Jay Scott's last couple of sentences fits perfectly and you fell into it. unaware that Vick had played that many games, perhaps filling these boards with your theories and opinions (and launching into a barrage of insults when your opinions are debunked) isn't the best idea.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Great advice Matthew. If people don't know the basics about something, don't post endless hate about a person that is a Hall of Fame leader in the area. Don't post hate about players, just kids really, who do their best. Instead, be thankful that such excellence exists around us, or just say nothing and be hateful elsewhere.

James Smith 6 years, 5 months ago

Jay just curious since you know everything what Hall of Fame is BS in?

Marius Rowlanski 6 years, 5 months ago

Hmm...It's not the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in Springfield, Mass. at least not yet so I'll bite. What Hall of Fame is BS in?

Rodney Crain 6 years, 5 months ago

Nice James. Jay seems a bit bent out of shape today, I am going to say he feels like he is not being heard.

Someone get him a participation trophy I am sure that will do the trick.

Glen Miller 6 years, 5 months ago

Seems like someone should take their own advice....... you've been the most hateful person on this thread and made it a point to be. Maybe you should just remove yourself from this all together, so that none of us have to read your blabbering posts blasting everyone else for their opinions and praising your own. I feel sorry for you, your life must be pretty miserable.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Would you like to take any of Crain, Archie or Reeves positions and debate? No? Why not? Would you prefer it if people just insulted you rather than defend positions you show a disagreeing opinion on? And to top off your sanctimonious verbal diarrhea on etiquette, you add the infantile comment about the relative quality of someone's life that you've never met.
With all due respect Glen, shut up. Your comment makes you look like an idiot.

Glen Miller 6 years, 5 months ago

I just call them like I see them..... you're a bitter and hateful person to most on here that you address. That doesn't seem like a very quality type life to me. I'm sorry if that hurt your feelings, but with all due respect Jay...... your comments on this entire thread make you look about 100 times more of an idiot than I am.

James Smith 6 years, 5 months ago

Glen it appears that you have no clue to what has been said by Jay. He is just having fun bullying everyone and adds no value to reasonable conversations on here. If you agree with all his comments then shame on you.

Jared Reeves 6 years, 5 months ago

Matthew, I agree that we need more civility on this forum. We are all KU basketball fans and should not be enemies. Disagreeing with an opinion does not give someone the right to insult someone personally.

For example: If someone thinks Hunter is the best player on the team, someone else who disagrees has two options (1) Attack the commenter by calling the person an idiot; claim they are not only wrong but inferior; purposefully mischaracterizing someone's comments (such as calling all critical analysis "hate"); and run away declaring victory without backing up your opposing opinion with any facts or argument; or (2) Politely explain that you disagree with his/her opinion and back it up with evidence and arguments.

Someone who attacks others, rather than the argument, is a troll, and should not be fed (responded to) because it only encourages such attention seeking behavior.

Matthew Peters 6 years, 5 months ago

dang sorry jared& mick i mistook jays comments for your own....I apologize.

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

Self is just a smooth talker that says all the right things but doesn't change one iota in his approach. If Hunter deserves an opportunity THEN PUT HIM ON THE FLOOR!. What is so difficult about that? And if it's such a big jump from high school to college then why does UK consistently make it to the final four? And Duke last year for that matter? They proved that if you mix freshman talent with "upper" class experience then you can be successful. And where does Self think the freshmen are going to learn, in practice? They need to be put in live game situations so they can get experience, it may cost a loss here or there but I'd rather lose now than in the second round of the tourney. It is a travesty what he is doing to these young men: Alexander, Oubre, Wiggins underachieved, Selden, Greene, now Diallo, Svi, and Bragg. Why recruit one and done players when your philosophy only allows experienced players to play? But evidenced by the recruiting so far, prospects are waking up to what's going on and they want nothing to do with it

Jared Reeves 6 years, 5 months ago

Jaston, how dare you question the deity Bill Self!?! He is infallible! No fan (or coach) in the history of the game deserves to even hold his jock strap. Citing other coaches greater success at similar (or inferior) schools is heresy! Facts, pfft! HCBS inability to adapt as the game evolves, and citing other programs superior tournament success with lessor players is irrelevant. If you can’t have absolute and blind faith in HCBS then you should be ridiculed and banished! You can’t do a better job, so your opinion doesn’t matter.

(Sarcasm has been seen in the vicinity of this post)

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

If you don't know that players can't redshirt after 4 games you might no lend credence to your endless criticism. I'm sure such simple truth is trolling in your unique mind.

You can't seriously be a Kansas fan. Mizzou? K State?

Jared Reeves 6 years, 5 months ago

Jay, I don't feed trolls. (Feel free to have the last word).

Ron Prichard 6 years, 5 months ago

I'm going to try to be polite in responding to this. First, I think you need to re-read the article. I think it is clear Self wanted to put Hunter in but felt like he HAD to play Lucas as he was the only one who could effectively guard Harvard's post player without requiring help on defense. Second, I recall Kentucky missing the tournament entirely a couple of years ago, and Duke has more early round tourney losses than just about anyone. Third, I notice you conveniently left out Embiid (widely regarded as a project when he entered college and left as possibly the best player/prospect in the country after one year) and McLemore, who sat out a year due to eligibility issues but then was our best player by the end of the following year and drafted in the first round. Selden has been given every opportunity but has been maddeningly inconsistent, Greene can't play defense and I'm not even sure why he is included in your list, Svi looks strong and agressive this year and wasn't even eligible to be a OAD player last year, and Diallo and Bragg have played a total of two and seven games respectively I think. Only Diallo was projected as a sure fire OAD, and your sample size for him is two games. Overreact much? I will grant you that Wiggins underachieved, but it isn't because Self didn't play him. For whatever reason, Wiggins wouldn't step up and be agressive when Self was pushing him all year to be the "Alpha dog." With Oubre, you may have a valid point. I think he probably could have been turned loose a little more. Alexander was just a train wreck from the start. He had bull strength but very little in the way of basketball skills, and I think we are seeing that play out at the next level. That whole situation was also complicated by the end of the season suspension that I don't think you can blame that outcome entirely on Self. Also, as far as recruits go, I think KU has placed more players in the NBA in the last 10 years than anyone other than Kentucky. Recruits see that as a plus. At least the smart ones do. And yes, I am nervous about our recruiting this year, but I have been nervous about it every year that I can remember. Some years we do better than others, but we seem to do pretty good when all is said and done.

Jack Hoff 6 years, 5 months ago

Outstanding analysis Ron! I think a few fans forget that once the ball is tipped and they are in a tight game, all consideration for playing time and appeasing players and fans go out the window. At that point it is about winning the game. Hunter will get his chance and people need to calm down and let the kids earn their PT, not just get it handed to them because they were the #7 player in high school

James Smith 6 years, 5 months ago

Good point Jack but at the same time BS continues to run his system no matter what and not play to the strengths of his players. Maybe why we continue to struggle in march. We are easy to put a game plan against because we are so predictable. Hard to beat us in the Phog but on neutral courts we loose our crowd edge and energy. Graham, Traylor and Lucas don't warrant their minutes but we just have to sit back and deal with it because BS is so stubborn.

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

First, you don't have to be polite, I won't be offended. And yes Duke had a lot of early round exits, UNTIL Coach K adapted his philosophy, got 4 top freshman to complement his experienced players and went to the promised land. Now he is challenging UK every year for the top ranked class because players want to play in his system now. As for Embiid, Rick Pitino predicted that Kansas would have the top 2 players in the draft, Embiid and Wiggins, so don't act as if he was a no name before coming to KU, and Danny Manny had a lot to do with his development.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Embiid was not ranked in the top 100 of any recruiting publication when he signed with Kansas. Danny Manning had been at Tulsa a full season before Joel arrived at Kansas. With all due respect, you obviously know nothing.

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

Dude you have issues. Coaches and insiders obviously knew about Embiid, Pitino predicted he would be drafted #2 before the season even started http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/229114/Pitino-Predicts-Kansas-Could-Have-Top-Two-2014-Picks-In-Wiggins-Embiid

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Embiid was unranked in ALL recruiting publications when he signed. That my uninformed friend, is a well know fact.

You seem to have abandoned the absurd notion that Danny mentored him. Some advice. Abandon all your idiotic positions and spare yourself the humiliation.

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

That was my mistake, I had him mixed up with TRob. But are you saying that Pitino did not predict Embiid would be drafted #2 before he even played one second for Kansas?

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

You're arguing with yourself again. Sadly, you're losing.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

It's in poor taste to edit a comment AFTER its been proven wrong. At least you're admitting your lack of knowledge is some sad way.

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

I didn't edit anything, did you take your psych meds today?

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

I'm sad for you that you have to lie about it.

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

I see you liking your own comments, kinda sad. Jay you don't seem like that type of person to have to like yourself, or actually you do. If you go and read my post, it still mentions Danny Manning.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Jaston. You've proven that you know nothing. Don't embarrass yourself any further. Seriously. Being childish isn't a remedy.

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

I've only proved my ignorance by continuing to engage in a dialogue with you, but oh well. And Jay it will take much more than posting an erroneous comment to make me embarrassed, especially when I have to compete with your hilarious and senseless rants. Quite entertaining though!

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Jaston. You've still done nothing but to prove that you know nothing. Insults don't hide that. Does being wrong make you that angry?

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

:) Jay from what I've heard so far, I have no reason to not like you which is why I have not insulted you once. I've admitted to being wrong about Danny Manning but you have yet to acknowledge the fact that Pitino and many others knew about Embiid's abilities before he even played a game at KU. But I understand that admitting fault may cause you to go over the edge so I won't insist any more.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Nobody doubted that Pitino made those comments. They weren't relevant.

How's your debate with yourself about whether Self is the worst recruiter or worst talent developer coming?

Jared Reeves 6 years, 5 months ago

Ron, excellent job of disagreeing without being disagreeable! Great counter-points.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Another Chicken Little member speaks. Or is it just a Mizzou/K State troll?

Rodney Crain 6 years, 5 months ago

Such a homer response through crimson glasses. See Jay labels are the cheap way to try to belittle someone, try disagreeing with their point first. I know its harder for you, but you will look smarter.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

If that's your measuring stick you should address me with more reverence. Debunking your few comments that were specific in their derision of Kansas basketball hasn't proven difficult.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 5 months ago

Sorry Jay I only have two hands and you have been soo busy today jumping on so many posters.

Why don't you take a nap I am sure you will feel better little guy.

James Smith 6 years, 5 months ago

Funny would love to know who is that one person that is agreeing with Jay. We all know...just saying. LOL at Jay..

Glen Miller 6 years, 5 months ago

First off..... I am not sure how you can say that Diallo has underachieved after only 2 games and over half the season left. Bragg is someone many thought would be better the 2nd half of the season.... and we're not there just yet. Svi is still the 36th youngest player in ALL of college basketball, so I think I will wait to pass judgement on someone who in most instances hasn't even graduated high school just yet. You recruit one and done players because why on earth would Kansas University, one of THE premier teams in the country not pursue the top players? I'm glad Wiggins came, I enjoyed watching him and I'm quite proud of the fact that he played here. I'm also glad that we got the others we did, that didn't pan out... because sometimes the "experts" aren't right, but what if those players had been the players expected. Not a single high school basketball player is guaranteed to be a stud, so you take a chance..... but it is a chance that a big time program has to take. Do you think Duke regrets bringing in Okafor, WInslow and Jones last year? Do you think that Kentucky is upset about Towns or any of their freshman they had last year on arguably the best team in history on a talent level? Do you think that LSU, who is a school that nobody even cared about on a basketball level regrets bringing in SImmons this year? What I'm trying to say is that many of the same people complaining about us bringing in 1 and done's are the same ones that were jacked up about those same signings when they happened. Hindsight is 20/20, but this fan will take being on the short list of the top prospects any day that ends on Y..... that means we are still relevant and that we still resonate with the big time players. I don't see where that is a negative for us at all.

Dave Cook 6 years, 5 months ago

who got jays panties in a knot on this thread? LOL

Brett McCabe 6 years, 5 months ago

I think that he likes to tie his own panties.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

What does that mean Brett? All the women I've known wear one piece panties. They don't actually "tie". Do you have some new info on panties? Do you have yours custom made? Please. Enlighten us.

Harlan Hobbs 6 years, 5 months ago

Haven't read all of the above posts, but am sure that there are comments on all sides of the issue, and most have good intentions. However, Bill Self and his staff are stalwarts at coaching this game, and I am especially impressed by Coach's analysis of why he has rotated as he has.

He acknowledges that Hunter deserves more of a shot, and I suspect that he will get that. Yet, the key is winning games, and in the case of the Harvard game, Lucas was by far the best big man in the rotation. A team of Wayne, Frank, Devonte, Perry, and Landon in crunch time was clearly the best option, and it showed in the final result.

Just remember, had we made a normal percentage of foul shots in the game, it would never have gotten that close, but when it did, Coach Self had to go with the players that he felt gave him the best chance to secure the victory. Hats off to him as usual.

James Smith 6 years, 5 months ago

Agree Adam Graham and Lucas are getting way too much playing time. Don't think that it is a coincidence that in the loss to MSU Graham played 35 plus mins and in Harvard game he played 33 plus mins and shot bad in both. Playing two point guards is overrated and maybe way we are the only team using this concept. Lucas misses so many shots around the bucket and fumbles rebounds that he should have. I like Lucas but think Hunter is better. He showed it in Korea.

Jack Hoff 6 years, 5 months ago

Jaston Archie- I respectfully disagree. I don't believe Wiggins underachieved, it was more the team in general which creates the impression of Wiggins failing. Also the hype surrounding him was vastly unfair and overblown! Undoubtedly, he left us feeling like he could have done more but the loss of Embiid, who improved tremendously under Self without Danny Manning was the reason for that team's downfall. I think the Kentucky situation was unique, as well as the Duke situation where they got the perfect blend of frosh and upper classmen. As well as Duke did with Okafor and Tyus Jones, they equally did as poorly with Jabari Parker. Kelly Oubre got every chance in the world to play to his ceiling, he was just soft... (Wichita State game). Cliff was a beast who probably should have been allowed to play through his mistakes more, but Self can't control his parents taking benefits on his behalf. Svi is still only 18 and has improved tremendously. Everybody kept saying free Svi and his three ball, well he has gotten tons of open looks the past few games that he just flat out misses. Perhaps he is a better practice shooter than game shooter, but Self has given him the green light, it's up to him now to make them. Brannen is a headcase and he is solely responsible for his missteps. Bragg will be a great player in the future, but no way you play him in crunch time over upperclassmen right now. Perhaps in time. This team is doing just fine. Harvard was more formidable than we probably give them credit for, #1 defense efficiency coming in. Can't play perfect every game, and they have some quality wins this year. Rock Chalk!

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

I don't blame Wiggins for his performance, I blame Self's system which doesn't allow for individual playmaking, but rather weaving around the arch aimlessly before throwing the ball inside or to the other team. You put Wiggins at UK or Duke and he would have won the Naismith award. And you say that UK and Duke's situations were unique, well KU has plenty of experience to complement the freshman talent so why not follow that blueprint? How do you justify playing Traylor over Diallo or Bragg?? You can't. Traylor wouldn't start for any other team in the top 25. And also, Kansas is just not an entertaining team to watch anymore, even when they win. I remember the 2008 team was just so entertaining to watch all year, offensively and defensively, I don't what's changed.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

....but yet Wiggins, whose father is a former NBA player, chose Kansas as the place to best prepare him. I'm sure your own NBA career left you in a position to better guide young Andrew...

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

Oh the delusion, once in a lifetime talent will succeed wherever it goes. Do you think Ben Simmons chose LSU as the best place to prepare him for the NBA? Maybe, but he would be successful wherever he chose to play

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Nobody brought up Simmons. How has Wiggins done? Was he the #1 pick? Why yes! Was he NBA Rookie of the year? Why yes? You're making even more idiotic arguments than the other Chicken Little contingent. Who's delusional?

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

Do you have reading comprehension issues? You said that Wiggins chose Kansas as the place to best prepare him. I said that once in a generation talent like Wiggins will succeed wherever he chooses to play, just like Simmons. Are you saying that Wiggins NBA success is directly related to him choosing to play at Kansas? Surely not

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Not at all. I'm illustration the idiocy of the notion that elite players don't want to play for Self. You've now begun to argue with yourself. I predict a tie.

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

You don't have to illustration, go look at every recruiting website, or at least rewind the game at the Champions Classic where they kept showing the rankings of the 4 schools. Does "NR" ring a bell for you?

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

But Jaston. Just a moment ago you were arguing that Self has recruited such immeasurable talent just last year and the year before and the year before that Kansas should have won the National Championship.

Is he the worst recruiter or the worst developer? Please argue this out with yourself. Let me know how it ends....

Jack Hoff 6 years, 5 months ago

I agree that perhaps the high low isn't the best system for this particular team. But I will say I appreciate that Self values team success over individual talents regardless of a players hype coming in. For example, I am sure LSU fans are having a blast watching Ben Simmons, but they are also 4-3. I would rather a "star" player play within the system and win the game, than try to take over and lose a game. But that is also a hand picked example that suits my argument, so take it with a grain of salt. Also Kentucky and Duke had very skilled freshman. I love Diallo to death but he is nowhere near Okafor, or Anthony Davis, or Nerlens Noel, or Cauley Stein in terms of skill. Certainly more energetic, but at the end of the day you have to be able to score against good competition which I'm not sure he can do YET. Personally I think Hunter Mickelson should be the starting 5 but that is my opinion without having seen him practice and from his performance in garbage time which may skew how well he is actually performing. But my opinion considering the good and the bad is that Hunter over the course of a game gives us the best shot at winning consistently. If Bragg plays, we would be a poor rebounding team. He should come off the bench. His offensive potential is what gives him PT. But I certainly agree Jaston, that they just aren't as fun as 2008 and 2012.

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

Jack I would not be wanting Self to play Diallo, Bragg, Svi and the bunch if I didn't think that in the long run it would make KU a much better team. Obviously, there would be growing pains and probably more early losses if they played, maybe not, but simply winning the Big 12 before losing early in the tourney is getting old.

Glen Miller 6 years, 5 months ago

Andrew Wiggins is the ONLY person who kept him from winning the Naismith award, not Bill Self. Self built the offense around him and BEGGED him to be the alpha dog..... it was up to Wiggins to assert himself and he only did so sparingly. When he'd score, he couldn't rebound or assist. When he'd lock down on D, he didn't score. When Embiid was out of the lineup, Wiggins couldn't carry the load........... I don't see how any of that is Bill Self's doing. Wiggins had/has a ton of talent, but he's got to put in the work to achieve his ceiling, it will not be handed to him on a platter.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Great analysis...Wiggins was still just a boy. He developed at the pace he could. Self gave him all the tools. Had Embiid been healthy they may have won a title together. All concerned were still winners.

Jared Reeves 6 years, 5 months ago

Jack and Jaston, great debate on whether success/failure is based more on the player or the system (coach). In depth discussion and analysis is why Kansas fans are the best. All of it possible with civility.

Benjamin Clay Jones 6 years, 5 months ago

Self paying more lip service to Hunter, but that's all it is. Have heard the same tune countless times before. Tiresome.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Did you hear that tune when Kansas won 12 straight Big12 titles? Was it tiresome then?

James Smith 6 years, 5 months ago

Not only does Jay have us at 12 championships Bill is in the Hall of Fame. Jay what are the lottery numbers this week?

Rodney Crain 6 years, 5 months ago

Its ok Benjamin Jay is having issues with everyone today. I am sorry please forgive him. He gets excited.

in regards to your actual post - I am not sure its lip service as much as something else. For example in the Harvard game Self was looking for toughness, in our big men thats Lucas. I like Hunter too and he needs more minutes.

Mick Allen 6 years, 5 months ago

Wow, "It is a travesty what he is doing to these young men". Other than Greene ask any of the young men you have named if they feel they have been taken advantage of. I disagree that Ombre and Wiggins have under achieved and I believe your underachieving statements with regard to Selden, Diallo, Svi, and Bragg are incorrect and at the very least premature. I wasn't aware our season was already over. How about reserving judgment as to whether they are playing to their potential until the end of what I believe will be our best season since 2012 Jaston. Did T Rob, the Morri, Withey, Tyshawn Taylor, Kevin Young, Embiid etc. underachieve?

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

Can you read? Where did I say that Selden, Diallo, Svi and Bragg underachieved? I said Wiggins underachieved, which I attribute to Self's limiting offensive system. And as for your last list of players, you're exactly right. Those are the type of players that Self loves, 3 to 4 year players who he can mold and shape, but one and done elite talent gets marginalized in his system. But he has nothign to worry about, by the look of the recruiting, he's going to get what he wants

Mick Allen 6 years, 5 months ago

Insightful, knowledgable comment Jack.

Mick Allen 6 years, 5 months ago

Jaston, twice you have now questioned the reading comprehension of 2 posters including myself. Please tell me what meaning you intended when you said" Alexander, Oubre,and Wiggins underachieved, Selden, Greene,now Diallo, Svi and Bragg"? Is there a secret inference in that quote that my lack of reading comprehension caused me to miss?Please enlighten me, you wordsmith.

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

You know the word "and' is a conjunction which unites the thing(s) before it with what's after it. You conveniently inserted an "and" after Alexander, Oubre but if you go back to my original post, there is no "and" there, meaning I was only talking about Wiggins as underachieving. Does that make sense to you?

Jared Reeves 6 years, 5 months ago

I agree. Jatson, your argument can be made without the personal attacks.

Jaston Archie 6 years, 5 months ago

I agree as well, and I have not personally attacked anyone on here

Jared Reeves 6 years, 5 months ago

Jaston, challenging someone’s reading comprehension is a personal attack. You have made good arguments, and I respect your opinion. Your debate with Jack was civil. However, your arguments are not enhanced by using phrases like: “Does that make sense to you?” or “Can you read?”

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

The reading comprehension comments were made before you lauded him for his civility. Now you're scolding him? Again, posting your thoughts in public may not be for you.

Jay Beakum 6 years, 5 months ago

Good lord! Does anybody here work for a living? Family? Hobbies?

LOL where do you find the time and energy to hair-pull and btch slap fellow Jayhawks? Save it for the Cyclowns or the Spooners.

Jared Reeves 6 years, 5 months ago

Jay, if you sort through the bickering (which can be difficult when a certain troll needs attention) there is actually some good analysis and debate, which is why KU fans are the best in the nation!

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

.....a certain troll? this from the person who whines like a baby when his ideas are shown as absurd and goes on rants about civility.....show us how low you can go and use a troll insult after such hypocrisy..

Bryce Landon 6 years, 5 months ago

Wow, KU ranked #2 in one poll and #7 in another? How is there such a disparity between the media's opinion and the coaches' opinion?

James Smith 6 years, 5 months ago

My thought is that in the AP it is more about if you win or lose and not how you won or lost. With our game against Harvard and being a 20 plus point favorite and still win, we moved up. In coaches poll it is more of the true eye test and see what is happening on the floor. I think at this point we are more of a 4 or 5 right now.

Bryce Landon 6 years, 5 months ago

That's fair. Still, I just hate to see Iowa State ranked so far ahead of us in the Coaches' poll.

Jared Reeves 6 years, 5 months ago

Ladies and Gentlemen, if you spot a troll, don't respond to him/her. Trolls make outrageous comments without any substance simply to get attention. Jay Scott is a troll. Ignoring trolls like him will allow the fans to show why they are the best in that nation--great analysis and civil debate.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Has having your opinions exposed as blatantly wrong really made you this angry?

Perhaps commenting in public isn't for you.

Doug Cramer 6 years, 5 months ago

Mickelson has done everything right and performed extremely well in the minutes he's gotten...even better than others.

Unfortunately his career is over...because Self has already determined who his boys are. I called this a couple weeks ago when Diallo was announced to come back.

Mickelson will go down as one of the most underrated players ever at KU.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

Only 5 players can be on the floor at once. Kansas has 12 good ones. Hunter knew Kansas had talent when he arrived.

Mick Allen 6 years, 5 months ago

Jaston, let's beat this dead horse one more time. Leave"and" out of the sentence.Am I correct in assuming then that the reference to Selden, Greene, now Diallo,Svi and Bragg is a reference to the "travesty" perpetrated on these young men by Coach Self rather than their"underachieving"? If so it is even a more outlandish, absurd statement than the one you say I misread.Over and out.

Jocelyn Kennedy 6 years, 5 months ago

I used to enjoy the banter on here..grow up people. Make your point and move on!

RJ King 6 years, 5 months ago

Like times 1000. Annoying, aggravating, and embarassing.

Kyle Brooks 6 years, 5 months ago

I don't know about anyone else but I have been a BIG fan of Greene from day 1. He has the swag that I think has been missing since the days of the Morris twins, Robinson, Taylor, Collins... I do think Frank has some of it as well but man Greene is that guy you hate if you are an opposing fan!

Hopefully I don't get taken out back and shot for my love for Greene, this board seems to be a bit testy today.

As always Rock Chalk!!!

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

I agree that Greene has much of the same attitude as the Morrii. I don't think Bill Self, the kids who got shot with BB guns, the Phoenix Suns or the Maricopa County Prosecutors Office call it "swag"

Greene is very talented. He needs to learn how to play D and to put the ball on the floor to get his own shot. Hopefully he matures.

Kurt Eskilson 6 years, 5 months ago

And for the record, there were no BB guns. BB guns shoot metal pellets that can put an eye out. They were AirSoft guns. They shoot little rubber balls that will not cause injury. Huge Difference.

Jay Scott 6 years, 5 months ago

That's good. That will help with the assault trial in Phoenix.

Kurt Eskilson 6 years, 5 months ago

Entirely different issues, obviously. But with all due respect … you (and others who occasionally mention the "BB Gun" incident) might simply want to keep the facts straight. We can all agree that facts should matter on this board.

Benz Junque 6 years, 5 months ago

This board has finally hit a new low. Pathetic.

Barry Weiss 6 years, 5 months ago

Reading this article, it seems we may have a different starting line up next game. I think Traylor will be the guy out and Diallo the guy in.

Pius Waldman 6 years, 5 months ago

Very unusual to see so many comments on an article but the topic does encourage comments. A problem Self has is 12 players and only 5 can play at one time. It appears Hunter has fans speaking out for his playing time. Also some concern about the Graham, Mason playing at the same time. Also the frosh playing to gain experience.

We all have opinions and can agree or disagree with others. Hopefully without personal attacks on others. I agree with Barry that a different start-up lineup tomorrow night against Holy Cross. Look for Hunter to start and Diallo to get more minutes.

Chad Redeker 6 years, 5 months ago

What would happen if Bill let his players play? Diallo played his first game and did great. Bragg looks athletic and can do many things offensively but needs to work on defense. In the Maui tournament players where allowed to play and see how great that was. Because Lucas could defend #4 better, great but could the coach not play Diallo or Bragg with him? Kids want to play were they cannshowcase their skills and the pound the ball down to the post mentality is getting old. All our post players struggle offensively why not open the floor and take advantage of #4 on his defensive end. KU needs to peak at the end of the season not the beginning. Play your young (freshman) players now because they are the players who can advance us in the tourney.

Benz Junque 6 years, 5 months ago

Diallo had four fouls in his 16 minutes in his first game. If Self "let him play" he probably would have played about 2 more minutes on the floor then fouled out.

RJ King 6 years, 5 months ago

It's a quarter to three, there's no one in the place except you and me . . .

I'm with you Tony. Refined debate seems a thing of the past.

Scott Clay 6 years, 5 months ago

12 would be too old for most of this debate. If you could even call it that.

Commenting has been disabled for this item.