Oklahoma State defeats Kansas, 72-65

  • 8 p.m., March 1, 2014
  • Gallagher-Iba Arena, Stillwater, OK

Sunday, March 2, 2014

No reason to celebrate: Jayhawks lose at OSU, win Big 12 outright

Kansas forward Perry Ellis makes his way to the locker room as Oklahoma State students storm the court following the Cowboys' 72-65 win on Saturday, March 1, 2014 at Gallagher-Iba Arena in Stillwater, Oklahoma.

Kansas forward Perry Ellis makes his way to the locker room as Oklahoma State students storm the court following the Cowboys' 72-65 win on Saturday, March 1, 2014 at Gallagher-Iba Arena in Stillwater, Oklahoma.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self discusses KU's loss at Oklahoma State

KU coach Bill Self discusses KU's 72-65 loss at Oklahoma State.

Download podcast

Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Perry Ellis and Wayne Selden's postgame press conference after 72-65 loss to Oklahoma State

Perry Ellis and Wayne Selden's postgame press conference after 72-65 loss to Oklahoma State.

Download podcast


Box Score

— This was not the way Kansas University’s basketball team envisioned wrapping up an undisputed 10th straight Big 12 Conference regular-season championship.

Not by squandering a 10-point lead in the final 11 minutes in Saturday night’s 72-65 loss to Oklahoma State in Gallagher-Iba Arena.

“We’re not going to (celebrate),” KU coach Bill Self said after the Jayhawks fell to 22-7 overall and 13-3 in the Big 12. 

His squad actually clinched sole possession of the crown prior to the contest courtesy of losses (also on the road) by second-place teams Iowa State and Texas.

“I don’t have anything to do with it, (but) equipment managers are great at hats, trophies and T-shirts and stuff. I told them to put them under the damn bus, because to me we missed our opportunity to celebrate,” Self added. “We may do a little something if we are successful on Wednesday (Senior Night game against Texas Tech). It’s pretty good for our kids to have a three-game lead with two games left. They played their butts off all conference season long.”

Yet ...seeing Marcus Smart score 20 points the final half after netting just one the first half in leading OSU (19-10, 7-9) to victory left such a bad taste, all celebrating was put on ice.

“We had a couple outings we haven’t performed very well. This is frustrating to me, not because we lost but frustrating to me because we had the game where we wanted it and didn’t make competitive plays down the stretch to give us the best chance to win,” Self said.

League commissioner Bob Bowlsby brought the Big 12 regular-season title trophy into the KU locker room after the contest. KU’s team managers put it in a box for the long bus ride home on an icy night.

“You can’t celebrate after a loss. We’ll have to get it the next time we play,” said KU junior point guard Naadir Tharpe, who had six of the Jayhawks’ unsightly 22 turnovers. He also scored six points off 2-of-8 shooting with five assists on a night he dislocated the thumb on his left hand.

He left the arena with a big ice pack on the thumb, indicating he’d be fine heading into the 7 p.m., Senior Night contest against Tech.

“That’s not how we wanted to finish the game,” said Tharpe, who indicated the Jayhawks were not aware of the fact they'd wrapped up the league crowd prior to, or during, the contest.

Of the turnovers, he stated: “As a team we just have to take care of the ball.”

The turnovers had Self leaving his alma mater’s gym in a lousy mood.

“I think it was more us tonight than them,” he said. “To me they did a good job jumping in the passing lanes. There were more poor plays (by KU) than good plays (by OSU). They did a good job guarding, don’t get me wrong. More turnovers were self-inflicted in terms of our making mistakes.”

He praised sophomore Smart in spite of the fact some KU fans and a photographer on the scene said he taunted the Jayhawk bench down the stretch.

“We couldn’t keep him off the free throw line,” Self said of Smart, who hit nine of 14 free throws. He also hit a driving layup over Joel Embiid that followed an inside bucket by Kamari Murphy to give the Cowboys a 68-64 lead at 0:46.1. He cashed another inside shot following one free throw make by Wayne Selden to give OSU a 70-65 advantage at 0:25.

“He was competing, playing hard. He played real well tonight,” said sophomore Perry Ellis, who had 11 points off 5-of-9 shooting with eight rebounds. 

Embiid, who tweaked his back late, had 13 points and 13 boards.

“We stopped getting stops,” Ellis lamented. "We needed to get more stops.”

Freshman Andrew Wiggins scored 15 points off 5-of-16 shooting. He was one of seven from three.

“The game of basketball ... it’s never over,” said Wiggins. “It’s a game of runs.”

OSU used an incredible 30-13 run to erase the 10-point deficit and close the game. It all left a bad taste as the Cowboy student body stormed the court at the final horn with ESPN’s GameDay crew in town.

“You can never celebrate after a loss,” Wiggins said. “Winning the Big 12 ... at Kansas we expect that. You can’t celebrate this way. We’ve got to finish strong. We get to play again.  We’ll get better after this.”


kellerman411 8 years, 9 months ago

What did Marcus Smart do at the end to Bill Self? Did he get in his face or something in the closing seconds? I was listening to it on the radio and they made a huge deal out of it. Sportscenter didn't show anything so what's the deal?

David Pointer 8 years, 9 months ago

If Smart was mouthing off we should have invited him into the locker room for a look at the Big 12 trophy before we boxed it up and brought it back to Lawrence where it belongs and where it has resided for the last decade!

Benz Junque 8 years, 9 months ago

All I saw was that Smart made comments in his post game interview on the court that he had read Bill Self's comments about how he was going to "come down to Oklahoma State and cut down their nets". All Self said was that they would not celebrate until they won it outright, but Smart isn't exactly known for his truthfulness and accuracy.

kellerman411 8 years, 9 months ago

Hahaha after the Syracuse loss, Joe Lunardi put KU up on the 1 line even with this loss in Stillwater. Lose a game and get moved to the 1 line, that's when you know your schedule was NASTY.

It was good for the kids to be able to see how dangerous a team is when they're fighting for their life. Every team in the NCAA tournament will be fighting for their life.

Benz Junque 8 years, 9 months ago

Lunardi hasn't redone his bracket since KU lost. He must go to bed early. KU has no shot of a #1 seed after that stinker.

Alex Berger 8 years, 9 months ago

Except Lunardi said on twitter "Keeping Kansas on top line despite latest loss"

kellerman411 8 years, 9 months ago

Yeah, not sure what Benz is talking about.

Benz Junque 8 years, 9 months ago

Sorry, Twitter is dumb. Wasn't aware. Kansas doesn't deserve to be a #1 at this point. Regardless, don't see them getting past Sweet Sixteen.

Walter Bridges 8 years, 9 months ago

Joe Lunardi ‏@ESPNLunardi 15h (3:34pm est) Keeping Kansas on the top line despite latest loss. Two reasons: (1) overall body of work; (2) rules still require four No. 1 seeds.

BUT Joe doesn't make the official brackets and this is not a 1 seed team Na simply cannot hold it together in a 6 game tournament

Aaron Paisley 8 years, 9 months ago

KU's stretch of games from Jan. 8 to Jan. 29 says KU can hold it together against good teams for a sufficient amount of time.

Walter Bridges 8 years, 9 months ago

That wasn't tournament play where one loss ends the season. What preceded and followed the dates you named? A home loss to SDSU and a loss to Texas. Cherry picking our best stretch proves nothing.

Timothy Rake 8 years, 9 months ago

THIS WIN by OSU was handed to them on a silver platter. No excuses. Wasn't bad refs, wasn't lousy shooting. Wasn't even stiffling D by OSU. How do you expect to win a game in this tough conference when you hand them the ball 22 times without ever getting a shot off? Answer: You don't. Hope it's a lesson learned. NOTHING was more exemplary of the game (and more BONEHEAD) than Naa getting knocked in the head with a pass from Jojo. My God, what was he doing? Smelling the roses? Time to wake up, Hawks.

Benz Junque 8 years, 9 months ago

There will be no lesson learned as KU has been doing this every few weeks all season. Tharpe is the leader of the team and shows the youngsters that it is OK to space out and not concentrate for periods of time if you don't feel the game is that important. Teams take on the mentality of their leader and that is why this team is doomed to underachieve when it matters.

Walter Bridges 8 years, 9 months ago

Lesson wasn't learned against FL except this time it was worse. Watching Smart taunt KU and KU not responding let me know all I needed about this team.

Kevin Jenkins 8 years, 9 months ago

Our point guard stop leading our team. Why did we give it to them? So many questions about this team and we thought they had it all figured out. As a Coach, (from the comforts of my couch). I just could,'t figure out what our team was thinking. Just a bad breakdown in play. 2 more games to show they can be a 1-2 seed. I put them at 2. Win the big12 tourney then they're a 1.

Cora Smith 8 years, 9 months ago

I bleed crimson and blue but watching the Hawks this year is brutal. No team play. No defense. No leadership on the court. I would rather watch a team of lesser individual talents and more cohesive play (Wichita State) than what the Hawks show. Painful.

Jeff Kilgore 8 years, 9 months ago

Fair weather fan, thy name is Cora Smith.

Mike Tackett 8 years, 9 months ago

I have watched the Hawks for 43 years. This is the poorest performance by an individual, NT, and by a team that I have witnessed. One thing to lose, another thing to flat out give the game away. We have major issues. We can lose to any team, at any time when our heads are in the clouds, or somewhere else less pleasant. Hope HCBS is recruiting a point guard. It makes no difference what our seed is 1 or 16, if we play like that, time for Spring Break.

Bryce Landon 8 years, 9 months ago

Elijah Johnson's performance against Michigan last year was still worse.

Jeff Kilgore 8 years, 9 months ago

Fair weather fan, thy name is Mike Tackett.

Walter Bridges 8 years, 9 months ago

Pointing out a pathetic performance makes you a fair weather fan? Pretty narrow minded. I'm a KU fan/alumnus for as long as I live and last night showed what happens when a top point guard takes over a game.

Jeff, your best comments usually end with "I'm scared' like they did when predicting the outcome of this game.

As for EJ, he was a 2 his first 3 years here and only played point because 2nd year player Tharpe couldn't. HCBS has been desperately trying to land a to PG but has struck out since the Selby fiasco.

Jeff Kilgore 8 years, 9 months ago

Walter, I love you. "I'm scared" "I'm narrow-minded"

Seriously, it wasn't "pathetic" when you consider how long the season is, the fact that OSU had much more to gain, scholarship athletes, we're playing our 28th game, the league outcome was already decided. Great teams look pretty bad about this time of year. MSU, Kentucky, Syracuse, and others all looked very beatable. We just aren't used to not having about 27 wins about now.

I don't worry about basketball. Hell, I don't even get "concerned" about it. I love to watch it and hope KU wins, but I temper disappointment with that liberal-Zen-like equanimity that makes me the popular guy I am.

Tharpe has saved our bacon way more often than he's hurt us. I'm inclined to believe that he's about ready to do big things. Stay warm. Stay tuned.

Alex Berger 8 years, 9 months ago

And Tyshawn Taylor's 10 TOs a few years ago against Duke? Apparently your 43 years have a rose-tinted hue to them.

Bryce Landon 8 years, 9 months ago

Time for Naadir Tharpe to surrender his starting job again. He doesn't deserve to play anymore.

Gerry Butler 8 years, 9 months ago

ya? again who you replacing him with? he alone did not cost us this game look at the book score, wiggins assts to's ellis, black, traylor he alone didn't allow a team to shoot 64 % in a half, he alone didn't shoot so dam poor in the first half we only shot 24% in the 1st half that wasn' all him. shelon asst -turnover ellis asst turnover traylor asst turnover. REALLY ? who you replacing him with? mason? lol connor? brennan? ya ok good luck with that. mason bête driver a lot poorer shooter, connor to slow, to small, brennan can't stay out of self's dog house long enough as bad as it was he didn't sniff the floor last night. you win as TEAM you lose a a TEAM 1 player does not cost the game. you have to look at the entire game by ALL players, what they did to contribute, what they did to hurt the game more much more then just tharpe. GO HAWKS

John Gill 8 years, 9 months ago

I said it in a post yesterday, this was a classic trap game. I actually thought it was pretty amazing we were in it with under 2 minutes, which was a testament to defensive effort, especially the protection at the rim. If Jo doesn't tweak his back in they 2nd half it might have ended a bit closer because it was obvious the rim protection was gone after that happened. An effort like this just before the tournament is not always a bad thing, it gives HCBS fodder to put in the practice engine.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 9 months ago

This game was a turning point regarding Tharpe. Tharpe had 7 turnovers (not 6), cost Selden a turnover when he wasn't looking on a press break, and got lucky not to cost Embiid a turnover on the ball off his head (again when he had no business looking away from the ball).

To me, his entire performance was completely and utterly inexplicable. That's our junior leader?

Perhaps the moment my opinion changed on Tharpe was early when he passively dribbled right into the trap just beyond half court, and promptly turned the ball over. I have commented how passively Tharpe handles pressure, but that was ridiculous. The local high school point guard could have done better.

Tharpe is not leader. Tharpe slinks around as if he's whipped puppy. He doesn't project confidence. He does not project any intestinal fortitude. Much to the contrary -- he projects himself as a wimp. I have never seen a true leader act the part of the victim. I have never seen a true leader present such defeated body language. I have never seen a true leader bring his team down to this degree. And I’ve never seen a true leader appear so utterly unprepared for such a big stage.

This all is on top of the fact that Tharpe compromises our defense night in, and night out, with shoddy angles, low intensity, and an apparent genetic predisposition to getting “beasted.”

Tharpe was plainly not ready to play last night. Our leader holds the ball of the five count on an inbounds play? On a huge stage, ESPN game day, against a team that was a preseason favorite to make a run at our crown, with a #1 seed hanging in the balance, Tharpe slinks on and off the court as if he was waiting for a whippin’ from his mommy.

Self wisely stuck him on the bench in favor of Mason and Frankamp late in the first half. That’s our junior leader? That’s the guy that’s going to lead us to the promised land? Benched for Frankamp at OSU on March 1 of his junior season? Unbelievable to me.

This game has changed my opinion on Tharpe. I've been trying to find the positive (which has mainly been his shooting lately). I am truly concerned that his performance last night is a prophesy of our upcoming fortunes in March. Others have said it, and now I'm on board. Tharpe is the biggest threat to our March success. And if the game last night is any indication, he is not to be counted on when it matters most. When the going gets tough, Tharpe might get going. Maybe. If he's up for it.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 9 months ago

Sport on about Tharpe and the teams chances with him as our PG.

We are at that game and still have not recovered from the shock of all the turnovers and poor PG play...again. It was like watching the worst of UF and UT Austin games rolled into one. We played hard the first 30 minutes and built a 10 pt lead but showed no heart to close the last 10 minutes.

Self has been giving Frankamp all kinds of chances but he simply will not step up. For a kids touted as one of the best shooters in the country, he shows zero confidence in his shot.

Another strange thing about the game last night was Tharpe played some good D on Forte. The past few games, Tharpe's D has shown a significant uptick. It seems we are stuck with Tharpe and a Sweet 16 exit again. I'm at a loss to understand why Self has not been able to recruit an elite PG.

Ryan Michael 8 years, 9 months ago

I think it's entirely unfair to say that about Frankamp. Self has proven time and time again, if Frankamp takes a shot and misses, he's coming out of the game. Self creates the reluctance to shoot in his freshman.... It's been this way every year.

Outside of him not shooting, I think Frankamp has done an excellent job just protecting the ball and getting the offense moving. He's doing what a PG on this team SHOULD do... NOT turn the ball over. We've got 4 NBA players in our starting lineup, all our PG needs to do is feed them the ball and not give up possessions. If Frankamp had the unlimited leash that Self has given Tharpe, I would be a good chunk of money that Frankamp could handle the ball better and shoot better as well.

Shane Johnston 8 years, 9 months ago

Not buying Francamp as the solution at PG. Long-term I'd rather see him settle in at the 2

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 9 months ago

I've been saying the exact same thing about Frankamp on these post, even about Self pulling him for missed shots. He has been trying hard on D and to be steady with the ball. He's developing well in those areas.

However, when he's in the game, he needs to shoot the ball. His shooting was probably the strongest reason why Self did not RS him this year. Additionally, it's clear the past few games, he is getting some extended looks. Passing on open shots, like the two vs OU, is not going to help the team in any way. Against OSUhe was 0 for 5 minutes.

He has got to find a way to make a positive mark on the game.

Dirk Medema 8 years, 9 months ago

Coach has commented multiple times about 3's being available at any time, but that isn't necessarily what he wants from the O. That is the reason that Conner (& Brannen) have come out of the game quicker than others at times in the past. We can blame coach, but it really just shows that we have not sat under his tutelage for hours and hours to learn what is required to have an elite O. It's also just silly to think that it can be learned from the Lazy Boy.

Benz Junque 8 years, 9 months ago

I do not recall seeing either of them come out for MISSING a shot. It is either because they played terrible defense, were careless with the ball or operated outside of the realm of the offense (bad shot or refused to take the good shot). And their defense is so terrible that we typically cannot have them out there for any length of time, especially when Tharpe is out there sucking on defense as well.

There have been a few games where Frankamp had a decent match up and played well but 99% of the season he has been totally over matched out there.

I know we all hate Tharpe right now because he sucked royally, but he is the best option we have right now. We had the same conversations about Taylor the first half of his senior year and like then, we just need to pray that Tharpe pulls his head out of his butt. I never for a second thought Taylor had what it took to accomplish it and lead that team to the Final Four, but he did. I have my doubts that Tharpe can do it, but at least there is a precedent for it happening.

I do think the thumb injury is going to bench him for the Texas Tech game and let Mason and Frankamp get some minutes. We'll see if that's a good thing...

Tony Bandle 8 years, 9 months ago

Gee, Jack..don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. :)

PS Jack and Suzi....points well made. I have no argument against either of your comments.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 9 months ago

Excellent post. Spot on with every point. The only difference I have with you is I have been saying this since early on in the season. What is disappointing is that average PG play would have negated at least 3 of our losses, including last night. The saddest part of this whole mess is that we have really no other options. I am with Suzi, how in the world do we not get a decent PG on the roster? This late in the season that was an embarrassment for a top 5 ranked team. I believe our backward outright win of our 10th CC will be our highlight for this season. That is incredible with the talent we have on this team.

Benz Junque 8 years, 9 months ago

To be fair, LOOK at the results of games in the last week.

Florida barely beat the worst Vandy team I have ever seen. Syracuse barely beat a bad Maryland team and then got destroyed by Virginia Iowa State and Creighton lost to unranked teams. Michigan barely beat a terrible Purdue team. Cincinnati lost to unranked UConn. Louisville lost to an unranked Memphis. Carolina had a one point win over a bad NC State team and a 4 point win over a bad Va. Tech team. Michigan State lost to a terrible Illinois team, AT HOME. Texas and Oklahoma lost. St Louis lost TWICE. Memphis lost to Houston. Iowa lost to Minnesota AND Indiana Kentucky lost twice to bad SEC teams.

It's not like the rest of the sport is hitting their stride and Kansas is lagging behind the pack. Kansas is a very good team that sometimes plays terrible. Almost every Top 4 seed in the tourney is the same.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 9 months ago

Benz of all those teams would you take their point guard over ours?

Jeff Kilgore 8 years, 9 months ago

I can think of five games this year that Tharpe put the team on his back. I know that a poor game can affect a person's long term memory, but go back and look at the season overall, and you'll see that he's been important and will continue to be so.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 9 months ago

Jeff, that is true but consider he is playing PG. After 29 games you could probably make the same statement for the vast majority of all 351 Div. 1 PGs.

Every team in the Tournament, from atleast the round of 32 onward, will put everything they have in attacking us at the point. Judging the way Embiid brought the ball down the court, perhaps Embiid is the man for this...? LB did it in the NC gave vs OU.

Jeff Kilgore 8 years, 9 months ago

I know that this will sound like sacrilege, but this game didn't mean all that much to the team. Yeah, they like to win, play hard and all, but with the free throw disparity (15) and the turnovers, (23), you can't convince me that we got our best effort. And what does the loss do? Nothing. Tharpe will make a few head-scratching plays but how many times this year has he knocked down a three when we really needed it? I'm just being objective. By the way, OSU is still a decent team with a rabid fan base. MSU, UK, Syr, Az, and others have all lost games to teams no better than OSU, so it's more the grind of the season. Give this team some rest and watch out. I think that Tharpe's best games are yet to come.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 9 months ago

I posted similar remarks Friday or Thursday that this game meant nothing to us, except pride, and the world to OSU. In fact, we ended up with a couple of extra tickets becuase of expectations of a uninspired outing. It was the nature of the way we lost, i.e. mindless turnovers and basically giving up the last 10 minutes.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 9 months ago

Jeff, Suzi is right on target here. The way we loss this game is very meaningful. At this point of the season, any team with high aspirations does not play like that. They had 6 days off before this game. Not sure they are going to get any more rest than that the rest of the way.... Tharpe was terrible, he was early season terrible and you junior point guard leader just cannot play that way. His entire game was off and it affected the entire team. Unacceptable and Inexcusable. Not at this point of the season.

Walter Bridges 8 years, 9 months ago

What ever happened to Greene and White. Once thought to be instant offense, neither sees time w/the game in question.

I think something must have happened between HCBS and these players or if not, it was a mistake to not develop them and give them the confidence to make a mistake.

Hank Cross 8 years, 9 months ago

He got hit in the head because he wasn't paying attention. 'Nuff said.

Gerry Butler 8 years, 9 months ago

JUST ONE TINY LITTLE QUESTION how do you know that jo jo's pass was tharpes fault? could it be MAYBE just MAYBE that wasn't a pass that was surpose to be made by jo jo on that particular play? MAYBE? how many times has tharpe saved our as this yr? kept us from losing more games? hitting huge shots at a crucial point of a game? hmmmm how quickly we forget those huh? AGAIN just who in the hell that's on this roster are you planning on replacing him with and PLEASE don't say mason lmao REALLY? freshman way to inconsistent, terrible shooter, maybe we get beat because our TEAM DEFENSE just flat sucks. that's just not tharpe, its the team, when tharpe does deliver the ball makes sweet passes and we can't finish a little 2ft 3 ft shot at the rim tell me again how is that his fault? tell me again how its his fault when wiggins time after time after time gets stripped driving to the rim because of his lack of strength, tell me how its tharpes fault when time after time after time we are unable to finish at the rim trying to finger roll it in when the situation dictates a flush of the rim, again PLEASE explain how that's tharpes fault? again tell me how the team not just tharpe keep getting beat on the dribble drive to the basket? ya he turns the ball over had really bad game but believe me its not just THARPE far from it that is costing this team. GO HAWKS

Walter Bridges 8 years, 9 months ago

The PG ALWAYS should be looking for the ball when one of the bigs is bringing it up the court. Do you really think there is ANY play that has Embiid or ANY big bringing the ball up the court when the game is on the line?

Did you see HCBS go off on Tharpe following the play? Did you see the game? Your comment shows a major lack of knowledge of basic basketball. You say Mason is too unskilled but let Jo bring the ball up. LMAO

Robert Brock 8 years, 9 months ago

Tharpe didn't have much to do with the fact that Marcus Smart took over the game down the stretch and the Hawks couldn't do anything to stop him. Tharpe was guarding Forte (who scored two points in the game); who was guarding Smart? Apparently, nobody.

Joe Ross 8 years, 9 months ago

Short-sighted, maybe. Smart could have still got his, but if Tharpe had taken care of business on his end, it wouldn't have mattered. A point guard sets the tone. Furthermore, a point guard rights the ship if it staggers. Not only did Tharpe do NEITHER, but he made it worse. MUCH worse. When the engine in your car goes out, don't expect to outrace another car.

Gerry Butler 8 years, 9 months ago

YOU GUYS ARE SOOOOO BLIND. AGAIN YA THARPE HAD A P - - - POOR GAME but he can't guard all 5 players on the defensive end. he is not the only one that gave up 64 % shooting to a team in the 2nd half not his problem players can't finish at the rim when he delivers. sooooooo much sooooo many more problems here then just tharpe

Rodney Crain 8 years, 9 months ago

Smart would have been a non factor if Tharpe would not have played so poorly for the whole game, he gave away double digit possessions himself. We should have had them down by 15-20, so that run by Smart at the end would have made it a 7 point win instead of a 7 point loss.

Robert Brock 8 years, 9 months ago

Folks other than Tharpe turned the ball over 16 times. But the real problem was that KU played LOUSY defense down the stretch. The Hawks couldn't stop anything. Marcus Smart owned us. Face it.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 9 months ago

Robert we lost that game in the first half when we had to play defense without any points aprx 15 times. We should have buried those guys. Other than Tharpe wasting possession after possession, seriously??? other than that...??? Other than the gun shot how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

Smart was in position to take that game over because we gave them that game. Period. It was not our defense did you listen to Self, other than ball control we played pretty well.

Walter Bridges 8 years, 9 months ago

"Other than ball control"

Sine qua non.

That's the same as Denver saying "other than the turnovers" we played a solid first half against Seattle...

Gerry Butler 8 years, 9 months ago

tharpe is not the one who shot 24% for us as a TEAM in the 1st half of the game. if we could of hit the broad side of a barn in the 1ST half we would of had that so called double digit you talked about for the 2nd half.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 9 months ago

Tharpe was the worst player on the floor, no discussion. Since he is our PG he effects almost every possession, so yes Gerry he was mostly responsible for us shooting 24%. He cost us 15 possessions that took us out of rhythm, and cost us points. Our offense was a train wreck as the rest of the team started to press, since Tharpe was so inept, with Joel even feeling he needed to bring up the ball. Tharpe could not even make an in bounds pass. So in total disagreement, Tharpe costs us that game, he killed us in the first half and took our team down his rabbit hole with him.

David Gisi 8 years, 9 months ago

I was begging for Frankamp to get in just before he stood up from the bench. I still cant believe what I watched last night. I do hope that the NCAA listens to what Bilas had to say about the play when Smart fell down and got the foul called on Ellis. Bilas was right on the money. And they need to take a long look at that "foul". In my opinion, that kind of thing is so far beyond äcting its ridiculous. It should result in a T.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 9 months ago


1] Most times KU plays like elite OADs and MAC AA's but every once in a while, they play like freshmen and sophomores.

2] I am pleased with the 10th crown, the Top 10 Ranking, the development of a couple of lottery picks, etc. but I am officially stepping off the National Championship bandwagon. To win six straight games , the Hawks have to play similar to Texas at Allen, unfortunately it will be inevitable that the Hawks vs OSU at Stillwater will show up somewhere and derail the dream.

3] Smart tries that flopping crap in The Show and he will get his clock cleaned!!

4] Darn, THIS is the game JaQuan Lyles should have seen!!

5] Let's be real for a the next 2, take the tourney into the finals, get to the Sweet 16, that's about 28-9 with a Conference Championship...really a pretty decent season from a bunch of kids in my opinion.

6] One positive take..every hurt or loss may convince Jo Jo to give us one more year.

7] Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Wayne the best Hawk out there and I don't remember him touching the ball much in the last 10 minutes!!

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 9 months ago

4) I like Lyles size but a few posters have made comments that he is poor on the D.

5) With another loss (8 at WVa) or two (9 KC) we might drop to a 3/4 seed. Take a look at the projected 5 and 6 seeds. As a 3 or 4, we will have a tough time making the sweet 16.

6) ...that's the positive spin, for us. He might also think how injurys could take away his NBA opportunity and with no PG help coming in next year...

7) That was my observatioin watching the game live and plan to look for that when viewing the game tape.

Aaron Paisley 8 years, 9 months ago

Defense can be taught. Very few of Bill Self's great defensive players came to KU as great defensive players, it was taught. Should Lyle come to KU, Self can teach him to play defense, it will be up to Lyle how much he wants to apply those lessons.

Walter Bridges 8 years, 9 months ago

It hasn't taken to Tharpe very well but Lyles is a 2 and at best back-up Seldon. Not saying I wouldn't want him but we are pretty deep at that position already.

Shane Johnston 8 years, 9 months ago

7] I don't think people don't get enough touches in general. We're just not a team that moves the ball really well. We've been good off the dribble and getting into the paint, where we've shot if efficiently, but in my opinion it's just a less pretty brand of basketball.

Dirk Medema 8 years, 9 months ago

7] Coach mentioned Wayne's "gets it" after last game too. He showed it in the middle when he let Perry know that he screwed up. The previous possession, Perry had made a nice short jumper from the left elbow, which he will do 80% of the time. That shot is not statistically strong - except for Perry. On the next possession, Perry had the same shot from the other side, and passed it up. The possession resulted in a turnover, and Wayne reminded Perry on the way back down the court that it was his shot within the O.

Dirk Medema 8 years, 9 months ago

All that being said about Perry, I was also encouraged on a couple occasions to see Perry playing much stronger in a muddy game. There is still room to grow, but much stronger.

It's my positive take away from the game, and the reason we had a 10 pt lead in spite of all the sloppy TO's. This game does not necessarily define the season, any more than some stinkers in the past have defined the season. Didn't the '07/'08 team do it in OSU when the 'pokes weren't predicted to contend for the conf?

Mike Riches 8 years, 9 months ago

If there is one thing this team had been consistent with all year, it's that they can and do get up for big games. No matter how it was billed, no matter what ESPN crew was there, this really was not a big game for us (though it was huge for OSU). Even if UT and ISU hadn't lost earlier in the day, even if the players weren't aware before and during this game that they had already clinched the outright title as this article suggests, everyone knew they would have another chance to clinch the trophy at home this next week. OSU had everything to play for, we had very little to play for (except pride) and it came down to the last minute. To those who say that playing for pride should be motivation enough, Kansas is still the undisputed best team in the Big 12, even after this loss, who's going to argue that? So one could contend that very much pride wasn't even on the line last night.

I expect to see this team continue to rise to the occasion in "big games", which is why I've said before that I'm much more concerned about the first couple rounds of the big dance, than later rounds if/when we get there. I think if we make it to the Sweet 16, our chances are pretty good moving forward.

Shane Johnston 8 years, 9 months ago

I don't understand why so many people are resigned to a Sweet 16. The first two tournament games will be easier than the average B12 conference game, and neither will be on the road. The (lack of) consistency at the guard spot is killer, but there's always the chance our bigs will offset that in any given game, or that Wiggens will get hot. One thing from last night, we outrebounded OSU by 19! By 13 on the offensive glass! That goes a long way in explaining how bad the turnovers were.

Teams like Virginia and San Diego St. are teams I would prefer to avoid in the tournament. Just so good, disciplined defensively. Virginia, in particular, rotates really well together and always seem to be on the same page. They are a really good example of how team defense can be effective when you don't have nba-caliber athletes protecting the rim. And, at least Syracuse yesterday, they didn't foul. We put OSU on the line a ton in the second half...

Rian Ankerholz 8 years, 9 months ago

Shane: Good point about the average BigXII game, but the problem is that we haven't played consistently enough to even win all of those. Remember, we're talking about the big "lose and go home" tournament. The turnovers were so hard to watch. Our perimeter spacing just begs to give the ball away. But the thing that made me wince is the thought that this was a game that Coach Self really wanted to win. He may say that it is just another game, but this game was basically at his birthplace, it was in front of his OSU "buddies", it was College Game Day. For his players not to be able to focus enough to limit turnovers to say, 15, shows their immaturity. They let their coach down.

Jeff Kilgore 8 years, 9 months ago

Syracuse, Kentucky, Michigan State, and Duke have all looked very average in the past week or two. Add KU after tonight. So what?

Games at about this time are virtually meaningless. Some fans, by the content on this board, live and die with every game, but overall, this game doesn't mean very much. The season is long, and college athletes everywhere play ragged games. After TT and WVU, the kids get a bye, can get their legs under them, the friendly arena in KC, and sit back and get the #2 seed they have probably already assured themselves.

What I like about our team this year and why I like their chances, is that when they're not in a hostile environment, they've tended to play well. There are a few exceptions, but it's true. This team has some warts but most teams do.

Yeah, this terrible team might just win the league by two or three games. HORRIBLE. Self and the team can express disappointment but as fans, we're pretty spoiled.

Shane Johnston 8 years, 9 months ago

how we win the league isn't what concerns most people. It is how the team plays in individual games and what that says about our opportunities to do bigger things. The most losses a one seed has ever had is 7 (twice). It has never happened with 8. If we're thinking about opportunities to do bigger things, then the games are not meaningless. The seeding and matchups matter.

Dirk Medema 8 years, 9 months ago

A 6L team was being compared for seeds with 0 to 3 L teams. It is very well recognized that KU had a brutal, without comparison difficult, schedule this year.

A 1 seed or not also is not the end of the season. It is a lot like getting McD's. Improves your chances, but LOTS has been accomplished players that weren't McD's or 1 seeds.

Jeff Kilgore 8 years, 9 months ago

Besides, KU has not handled the #1 seed with a Final Four as often as any KU fan would like. I'm all right with a two or three, so if that's what happens, that's what happens.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 9 months ago

Head in the sand fan who thinks everything is AOK - thy name is Jeff Kilgore.

So do you think those schools feel the way you do, or are concerned about their teams prospects for a long run in the playoffs as we are of our team? This team losses 2 more games, very possible, they could be a 3 or a 4 seed.

Everything is not fine, it's a bit concerning to play like that last night to be honest, but that might hard to see for you.

Jeff Kilgore 8 years, 9 months ago

I'm just taking the bigger view. Too much is made of a single game. These kids are tired, they play too many games, and it ain't easy to get up for every big game, no matter how the fan base thinks about it. Yes, we didn't play well. What does it mean? Who knows? Seeding matters much less than you might think. If we aren't playing like a #1 seed, why would we want one? I'm not sticking my head in the sand at all. I'm just taking the bigger view.

John Fitzgerald 8 years, 9 months ago

Rodney, you're just a troll sir. Take a deep breath and please understand how young this team is. Take a look at Kentucky; They have just as much youth with a higher rated recruiting class and less competiton. They are number 25 this year. I'd say Self and company have done a great job thus far and that includes the players. If you want perfection maybe consider jumping on the WSU band wagon.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 9 months ago

Hi John, how are you doing,? As always nice to see you post. First thing look up what a troll is sir. I think you will be surprised by the definition, mercy, rookies... so young so foolish. Guess what John it is ok to critique your team after a win or a loss. Being a fan of the team does not mean you have to be happy with every little thing they do. It will be ok John, you see they do not care what we post here. Did you watch KY play this past week, I watched both games, there is a disconnect with Coach Cal and the team. What was interesting is after he was ejected they played better in their 2nd game. I would still take their PG over ours, our coach, our team. Self has done a fine job never an issue there, and I bet you would not find a post of me putting him down this season. So no idea where you are coming from there? I never said or alluded to perfection. I always say execution. Repeatedly this year I have posted it is ok if we lose as long as we execute our defense and offense. See this means that you are beaten by the better team. We did not do that, we beat ourselves this last game. We do not have to do it every time but most of the time, this late in the season I would like to see us run our offense and defense. We have struggled with that, if you are paying attention to our season, so I bring it up after a win and a loss. So as is typical John you fire away but you do not hit anything. I am stating my opinion about how poorly we are playing, not trolling I post on here all the time. I am trying to do it without emotion but sometimes, silly people just frustrate me.

Alex Berger 8 years, 9 months ago

Three things are pretty obvious right now:

1) Some KU fans don't watch other teams play basketball (every team plays ugly).

2) How quickly one game wipes away the good things we have done this last month.

3) Nothing like a close away loss (free throws widened gap in last minute) in a brutal environment to show how spoiled/entitled/unrealistic our fanbase can be.

Phil Leister 8 years, 9 months ago

Exactly. All these clowns resigning us to a Sweet 16 loss are incredibly shortsighted.

Len Shaffer 8 years, 9 months ago

Very well said, Alex. A few things to add:

4) Given KU's recent history as a one seed, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to be a 2 seed, especially if it's in the Midwest vs. somewhere else like the East.

5) Go back and look at Final Four and championship teams and, with a few rare exceptions, they've always had some really ugly losses during the season.

6) As bad as Naadir can be at times, at least he's not Elijah. No way could he possibly screw up the end of a game as badly as Elijah did against Michigan. On top of that, no one has hit more big shots this year than Naadir has, and I'm confident that if we needed a big shot in a game, he could come through (and if he missed, Andrew would clean it up on the rebound).

Walter Bridges 8 years, 9 months ago

EJ only played at the point his final year because 2nd year Tharpe was still too incompetent to do it himself. Remember Tyshawn Taylor? EJ was previously always a 2 at KU, his best year ending in a final game loss to UK in the NCAA. You would know that if you really followed this team.

Ian Emerson 8 years, 9 months ago

Would everybody just shut the heck up? What is wrong with you people. We clinched the championship tonight and all anyone can do is curse our players and question their resolve. Lets make one thing straight, although Smart played great he was also doing everything incredibly unsportsmanlike to win this game. Their were 3 Instances where replay showed he INCREDIBLY flipped and 2 came away with 4 points from free throws. I will go so far as to say that the turning point of the game was a loose ball fall on Perry where Smart, without contact, just flipped on his back and got a foul. This was an incredibly hard game for this team to win but I promise you if we meet this team in the conference tournament we are going to annihilate this team and everyone who is talking an unbelievable amount of crap today will sing praises tomorrow. Kind of reminds me when we had all those nonconference loses and everyone questioned the team only to say they knew all along when we streaked during the opening of big 12 play. Shame on all of you.

Len Shaffer 8 years, 9 months ago

Yep. Remember all the people who said KU wouldn't even make it to the NIT?

Scott Frisbie 8 years, 9 months ago

Coach Self must see something in Tharpe we don't. Or he is forced to just hope for the best cuz its almost embarrassing to see the poor PG play over and over. Jayhawk fans are spoiled by a great tradition, no doubt about it. Dr. Naismith, having invented a "winter pastime" that has spread around the world, would expect no less than the best efforts and consequent hopes.

Steven Nolin 8 years, 9 months ago

I think we just beat ourself last night, it is ridiculous that we play so bad on a national stage. Coach Self & staff are great, we have top notch talent, but my thought is if they're playing so bad not making shots, why not pull them, give some of the other kids a chance to compete, White, Green, Frankamp, Lucas, hell even walkons, a win is a win regardless of who is on the court

Dirk Medema 8 years, 9 months ago

5 top 10 teams fell Saturday - all on the road. The last time 5 Top Tens lost on the same day was January 18, 2003.

Len Shaffer 8 years, 9 months ago

And not just 5 top 10 teams, but something like 14 ranked teams lost in the past two days. (And most of them weren't playing with their conference championship already clinched, against a team that was desperate to win.) I guess all of them should give up any hope of making it to the Final Four.

Adam James 8 years, 9 months ago

Anyone else thinking about how we manage to keep Jo Jo healthy, especially with the B12 tournament and so little rest time in between those games. This team will be fine, we just need a healthy Embiid. Here is why we will be in the Final Four. 1. For the first time I can remember we will be ready to play a different style,even press if needed early in the tourney. 2. We have the most depth in the country so foul trouble will not be a issue. 3. We can play big or small based on our opponent and typically we have only been able to play big. 4. I really believe that this team is going match and shut down whatever is thrown at us as we have the better talent and even if we are off on the O end we will find a way to shut the other team down just enough with our athleticism. 5. We have Bill Self and WE ARE KANSAS

John Fitzgerald 8 years, 9 months ago

I think Marcus "Dumb" and the rest of the OSU squad forgot about the Big 12 tourney. You could have won classy and moved on, but you gave us a chip, and yes we will carry it on our shoulders. Good luck ....

John Fitzgerald 8 years, 9 months ago

And for all the Tharpe haters, I completely disagree with you. Is he the best pg in the league? No. Could we find someone better? Definitely. Was this loss completely on him? Not a chance. This was a team effort. He had a horrible game at the worst possible time, but I can promise you he's the most ready to lead this team. He's what we have, so we must have faith in him and Self will as well. I would have been surprised if we won this game anyways. This was OSU's season on the line. They loose and they may not make the tourney. They wanted and needed this win more than us. Keep your heads up fellow fans, there are still good things ahead for us. This is the youngest team Self has had and we clinched the big 12 outright with 3 games left. That's pretty darn impressive if you ask me. Don't act spoiled, act appreciative and humble. We are Jayhawks, let's show class. RCJH!!

Rodney Crain 8 years, 9 months ago

He cost us 20 possessions last night, really. Everyone agrees he is our weak link, the place to attack us. The person to pressure with a press. He disappears for games at a time, has been benched for numerous games this season. He lacks a steady hand and leadership at critical times of key games. Takes shots way to early in the shoot clock, drives into the lane with no plan of attack and is our weakest defender of our starters. I am not a hater of Tharpe these are just the facts! It is why Self says he is so important. That he does not kill us like he did last night.

John Fitzgerald 8 years, 9 months ago

Everyone agrees? I thought I said I didn't agree. That would make your comment invalid considering everyone would have to include me as well. You can whine and complain and put all the blame on one single player but the reality is your opinion doesn't matter, and neither does mine. Tharpe will continue to play because Self makes the decisions, not you. You can either continue to be negative and cry like a little girl or support the team. And if it frustrates you enough that you feel the need to ruin your day over it, then I suggest seeing a therapist.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 9 months ago

Or John I can continue to post here and understand that what you say is typically poorly thought out, usually silly and without any sound foundation. (everyone does not mean you, it meant people who, well, know what they are talking about) Tharpe will continue to play because we have no other options. He is not even in the top 5 of PG in our conference. It is OK, to be disappointed in your team that you have supported for more than half of your life. Especially after a loss where they play so poorly it baffles explanation, then sit there like you and defend poor effort, because well you should just support them. If you had your way we would not even keep score I bet. Since everyone voices their concerns, including you, about others, teams, whatever, calling anyone a whiner or a little girl just makes you look small John. Its OK you are forgiven you just do not know any better. So toughen up. My day is not ruined posting on some web site lol, seriously how out of touch can you be?

John Fitzgerald 8 years, 9 months ago

I'm just trying to help you out. You're probably about 50 something and waste a lot of time being angry. Yes we played poorly, but instead of bashing a player I'm looking at the positive side of things. And because I'm being positive and showing support I'm someone who wouldn't even keep score? All your reply does is show that you're uneducated. I'm very competitive and would love to see us win every game, but I'm also an adult and understand the difference between acting spoiled and acting humble. Your ignorance makes me sorry that you're a Ku fan.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 9 months ago

John what are you 10? Uneducated, you are competitive, your an adult, you know difference from spoiled vs humble. My ignorance? Does your chest hurt when you beat on it to show supremacy? Oh boy...

Come on you can do better than that… Let me guess you are an elitist who thinks no one should disagree with you, or ever threaten your knowledge of KU sports. You dignity and genus shall not be challenged. You somehow think you know ALL about KU and its basketball team lol.

Get over yourself.

Being positive does not mean all things in life will be fine, I prefer to deal with reality John. So go off in your little world and think what you want.

John Fitzgerald 8 years, 9 months ago

You realize you spent your entire post bashing me. We're both KU fans, so I think you need to calm down. And your posts are rather difficult to follow as your grammar is horrible and you use a lot of run on sentences. If you going to get a point across at least make it understandable. I'm disappointed in you Rodney.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 9 months ago

John people like you frustrate me, you exhibit narcissistic behavior and egotism in how you relate to others and think that is ok. You are acting like the exact person you say you despise. Amazing, you might need a team of doctors buddy. Do you realize you spent your entire post bashing me, you have, I was making points you were just trolling?

Case in point, just in the posts to me on this one section you have said to me - I am ignorant, I think you would be surprised, you just don't like to be disagreed with I am uneducated, nope, got two degrees from real colleges John like this one. I am acting spoiled, not sure you know what that means you used it in the wrong context here I whine and complain, well we are in a BLOG so I think its ok to do that here. My grammar is horrible, this is not a term paper by the way its a BLOG John lol Fragments are acceptable your opinion doesn't matter, everyone's does this is a blog not your living room I cry like a little girl, hmm interesting reference, sounds like what a bully would say in a playground, who is the child John? you suggest I should see a therapist, I could say the same thing sir

Look in the mirror! You said all of these things, not me. You have gotten emotional here, like a troll. Maybe it is you that you should be disappointed in John.

You honestly I think I let people like you talk to me like this. Not a chance.

Aaron Paisley 8 years, 9 months ago

I don't think Self cared all that much about KU losing this game. This is the 4th time in the last 6 years that KU has lost on the road their next game out after clinching at least a share of the Big 12 title. Bill has said for awhile now that KU's two goals each year are to win the Big 12 regular season title and NCAA tournament title. Notice the Big 12 tournament title, or being a 1 seed in the NCAA tournament is not among those goals. Last night was a case of KU with nothing of relevance to play for and their effort emphasized that. Look for KU to come out and destroy Texas Tech on Wednesday to keep their senior night streak alive.

The unfortunate thing for KU is that Naadir Tharpe was mentored by Tyshawn Taylor and Elijah Johnson who were two players both prone to mental lapses at the wrong time throughout the course of their careers. Naadir is the one who will take KU however far in the NCAA tournament they go because he is the one guy that can get everyone else involved. Frank Mason is great at getting his own shot and getting to the free throw line almost at will, but he hasn't been a very good distributor of the ball and Connor Frankamp is still too passive on offense to be an effective PG. KU did win 7 in a row with 6 of those wins coming against teams that should be in the NCAA tournament (ISU twice). We know for a fact that KU is capable of putting it together for a long enough stretch to go deep in the tournament because they've already done it this year. Obivously, that 7 game streak to open Big 12 play doesn't guarantee KU will go deep, just shows that KU is capable of making a deep run because they have beaten a bunch of tournament teams in a row already this year.

Walter Bridges 8 years, 9 months ago

I guess you didn't watch the game or maybe Self was just play acting that he was mad at his players when he took them out.,

Also the stretch you are referring to had KU at home in four of those games, one was at TCU and the only two resume building games were at Iowa St and Oklahoma.

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