Wednesday, January 22, 2014

Self: Selden’s toughness on save ‘contagious’

Fans react as Kansas guard Wayne Selden crashes into the seats after saving a ball that was tossed to teammate Joel Embiid for a bucket during the second half on Monday, Jan. 20, 2014 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Fans react as Kansas guard Wayne Selden crashes into the seats after saving a ball that was tossed to teammate Joel Embiid for a bucket during the second half on Monday, Jan. 20, 2014 at Allen Fieldhouse.


Like thousands of Kansas University basketball fans, coach Bill Self has reviewed the clip of Wayne Selden’s all-out hustle play against Baylor several times.

He’s given a thumbs-up to film of his freshman guard jumping over the northeast press table into the Allen Fieldhouse stands while delivering a pass to Joel Embiid for a bucket in the second half of Monday’s 78-68 victory over the Bears.

“I didn’t realize it was that great a play watching it live because I was kind of blocked out,” Self said Tuesday on his weekly “Hawk Talk” radio show. “Wayne really went after that ball. To dive over that scorer’s table and get right back in the play ... that was pretty cool.

“Wayne hadn’t played as well the last two games (16 points with 10 assists to six turnovers against Oklahoma State and Iowa State) as he had before,” Self added. “I don’t think anybody could have maintained the level he was playing at before. He was playing as well as anybody in the league the first couple games in the league.”

Selden, a 6-5 combo guard from Roxbury, Mass., scored 24 points in the Big 12 opener against Oklahoma and 20 in the next game, against Kansas State. He scored seven points with two assists and three turnovers versus Baylor.

“He means so much to us. He gives us an air of toughness. Certainly when he’s going after the ball like that, we become a much better team because it’s contagious,” Self said.

White update: A “Hawk Talk” caller asked if KU sophomore wing Andrew White III was in the coach’s “doghouse” or injured.

White, 6-6, 210 from Richmond, Va., has played three minutes in the last nine games since suffering a hip pointer at practice.

“I don’t know if he’s 100 percent (healed) but he’s close enough. He is practicing every day,” Self said. “He’s never been in the doghouse. He’s a fabulous kid. It’s hard to play everybody.

“One of the advantages of depth is you have guys, through injuries and foul problems and things like that, you can play and hopefully not take a big step backward. One of the disadvantages is, if everybody is healthy, not everybody plays. He has kind of fallen in that group where he’s odd man out on the perimeter just like Landen (Lucas, two minutes last seven games) is odd man out on the interior.

“Both of them have worked hard and both of them deserve to play. I don’t know if they deserve to play over guys we’re trying to play. We’re only really playing four perimeter guys (Naadir Tharpe, Wayne Selden, Andrew Wiggins, Frank Mason) and filling in with Brannen (Greene) and Conner (Frankamp). He (White) was probably ahead of those guys a month ago. Since then and when he got hurt, he lost a little bit and those guys put themselves in a position maybe to have the opportunity to get in first. He’ll keep a great attitude and keep working hard. He’s a great teammate, a great kid, period,” Self said.

Star of the game: KU freshman backup point guard Frank Mason scored nine points off 4-of-5 shooting with six assists against one turnover against Baylor.

“Frank was the best player we had yesterday,” Self said. “He did more sound things, was aggressive, broke the defense down, didn’t play timid. I thought he played very, very well.”

Honors: KU junior point guard Naadir Tharpe on Tuesday was named Oscar Robertson National Player of the Week by the U.S. Basketball Writers Association. He averaged 22 points, five assists and four rebounds in wins over Iowa State and Oklahoma State. Also, forward Joel Embiid was named Wayman Tisdale National Freshman of the Week. Embiid, a 7-foot center from Cameroon, averaged 14.5 points, 10 rebounds in those two games.

What was that loud noise in Section 14 on Monday night?: “The back of a bleacher broke in Section 14. Nobody was hurt,” KU associate AD Jim Marchiony said. “It happens every once in a great while.” He said KU officials checked out the area and deemed there was no danger of further problems during the game and any repairs would be made as needed this week.

Two games up: Texas’ win over Kansas State on Tuesday means four teams in the league now have two losses. KU is 5-0, followed by Texas and Kansas State (4-2) and Oklahoma State and Oklahoma (3-2).

“We’ve played five (games) out of 18. That’s like the top of the third (inning),” Self said, comparing the marathon basketball season to a baseball game.


Brianna Zaleski 8 years, 10 months ago

There u go Benz. Straight from the horses mouth (Self on White). Now, armed w that knowledge, do u think it's some ljw posters that are responsible for the murmurings of possible transfer, or can we see that When Wiggs is replaced by Ourbe next season, essentially the same situation is going to exist for AW3? I'm pretty sure Jesse Newell was able to come to that conclusion himself w out help from Benz Junk, or Suzi Marshall or whomever.

Now, admit u were wrong and we'll all move on.

Dirk Medema 8 years, 10 months ago

There is no murmurings from Coach Self. He says that he is a great kid, and a great teammate that was ahead until he got injured. Someone else could just as easily get injured, and he'd be needed.

He is also only a soph, and does have the benefit of hanging around a few guys that finished with degrees and great careers, even if only a year or so long.

That doesn't mean that he will stay, any more than you blogging indicates that he won't. Just sad that you and others would spread such negativism that isn't necessarily there. Were you part of the RussRob is going to leave after his freshmen sit-out game? That certainly was on the mark, as he gets to celebrate daily as a national champion.

Brianna Zaleski 8 years, 10 months ago

Ok, for the record, I don't want him to leave. I, personally, want to see him red shirt and stick it out. I think he could be an asset down the road, as many 5th yr seniors are.
Let's be clear, AW3 is not playing because he's not producing. He has not been able to hit a meaningful open shot all year and his D must be a liability, which is usually the case for a Bill Self coached player that can't find the court.

I'm not "blogging" or "spreading negativism"', give me a break. Players transfer. It happens all the time. Bill Self has had more than his share of transfers. And usually it is has to do w playing time. If AW3 is not gong to get meaningful court time The next 2 seasons, he should most certainly transfer. It's in his best interest. Unless he's some diehard Jayhawks fan who is just thrilled to be a part of the program and has hopes of MAYBE contributing down the road in the event of an injury or exodus of players at his position, ala Connor Tehan. But let's remember, CT is a Kansas kid who was a walk on, initially. AW3 is from Virginia and a top 50 recruit. He wants to play.

I don't remember anyone (I could be wrong here) urging RussRob to transfer after his Fr year. I remember him saying he wanted to, but his family urged him to stay. I think we all saw that he was going to be a significant producer down the road, for Self, he just had a rough Fr. campaign. But I think we all saw his potential defensively.

I hope AW3 stays. He's not going to play this year or next year. Barring any injury or unforeseen circumstances, next year will play out a lot like this year. There is just too much talent in front of him. But I believe if he red shirts and continues to improve, he could be a great producer for us someday. Look at T. Releford. He's the poster child of seeing the writing in the wall, and biding his time. All the while, getting better and seizing his opportunity later. Remember, he red shirted his Soph year.

Lastly, I didn't say anything about there being any murmurings from coach Self, but rather from the posters on this site. And the proper way to say it is "there ARE no murmurings " or "there IS not a murmur".

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 10 months ago

I agree with you. I also hope AWIII stays.and takes the RS next year. My bet is 2015 will be a terrible recruiting class because the top 5 star kids want to play right away. JaQuan Lyle is looking at OSU and other schools instead of Kansas for instant PT. Oubre and Alexander will probably be OAD. How many current HS Juniors do you see out there that can come in and take PT from Lucas?

Chris Shaw 8 years, 10 months ago

AWIII doesn't need to transfer. If AWIII transfers he will essentially take a red-shirt next year in 2015 and won't be able to play until 2016 at his new school.

Now, this is just my opinion, but I think AWIII needs to red-shirt next year in a Kansas uniform and come back for his final two seasons as a 22 and 23 year old a become a 1000 point scorer like Travis Releford (I know Relly was just shy scoring 1000 points).

AWIII knows the system, Self loves the kid, AWIII has the work ethic....I think sometimes it's just the wrong "Timing" for a kid. However, I think AWIII's better days are ahead of him and if he can just see the light at the end of the tunnel and not transfer and instead take his red-shirt at Kansas...He'll be ready for his 2016 and 2017 seasons at Kansas.

It's hard to look that far down the road, but I really think he's gonna be a good player if he can just stick to the plan and not get frustrated. Easier said then done though. Hard to see Virginia and Tony Bennetts squad at the top of the ACC standings and not say "What If".

Jack Wilson 8 years, 10 months ago

I agree that AW3 doesn't need to transfer and I hope he doesn't transfer.

What is clear is that White is healthy and CF and Greene have passed him on the depth chart. That is significant. Self confirmed that.

The Releford comparison by BigManU is a good one, because it shows how a guy can develop and have a productive final two seasons. However, the numbers coming in next season don’t provide the clear path to playing time that Releford had heading into his junior season. Further, interestingly, Self has never made similar comments about AW3. Last night would have been the perfect opportunity. But he didn't. Self could have easily said, "Andrew has a great future here. I see his career lining up with many Jayhawks who have been here through their senior seasons."

That's pretty innocuous -- meaning, not as specific as saying he'd score 1000 points --, but Self didn't say anything near that.

To me, the stars are aligning even further after Self's comments yesterday. They align further based on what Self didn't say (AW3's future here) and what he did say (CF and Greene are ahead of him on the perimeter).

On the suggestion that he redshirt, which is fine, but why would White, if thinking rationally here, believe that Self would not recruit over him once again? The next top 10, potential OAD that comes along?

Would White's chances at playing time be better at a VCU, a Virginia Tech, a Richmond, etc., nearer to his home?

Remember, with Releford, we were hot after Shabazz Muhammed. Do you think Self would have brought in Muhammed to play off the bench? It would have been interesting, to say the least.

I do think that those suggesting that there is no more reason to believe he will transfer than that he will stay, such as Dirk, are respectfully ignoring the evidence. We all admit that none of us know for sure. But that’s not the point.

The best evidence in my mind is just simple logic. The first five items related to “numbers”: 1) Oubre coming in, presumably ahead of White (comments by Self to Oubre about taking Wiggins' spot/top 10 guy) 2) Selden possibly staying, ahead of White 3) Mason/Tharpe ball handlers, ahead of White 4) CF and Green both now ahead of White 5) Self now not using a 5th perimeter guy regularly for the third straight season 6) White being a sophomore, just two season of eligibility left for playing time in his entire college career 7) White's vague response to Jesse Newell on transferring 8) Self not mentioning AW3's future at KU 9) The reality that even if AW3 redshirts, Self could still recruit over him again with a top 20 guy 10) The likelihood that by transferring, AW3 could select a landing spot that provided a much clearer path to playing time than the murky one here at KU.

The kid deserves a college career. But his skill set may not be what Self is looking for in comparison to our other players. None of this is a bad thing. Stuff happens.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 10 months ago

I am just curious, what was the vague response to Jesse Newell? Did I miss something?

Erich Hartmann 8 years, 10 months ago

And Kelly Oubre remains an unknown commodity regarding how well he can produce at the college level as a frosh. It could be that Oubre & AW3 are in a battle in the nonconf. Remains to be seen, is my main point...regarding AW3's junior season. He is definitely more that a glue guy. I think also, Self just doesnt want a replay of the no-bench 2012 roster, even if it means 'embarrassment of riches roster' now, with the insurance/embarrasment being AW3, BigLL, and to a lesser extent Greene. Who knows, additional depth & thus fouls to give could have "disrupted" Kentucky in the champ game into a grinder-type slugfest, which would have allowed Self to go all-Sutton style/Big10 style on those KY frosh, thus keeping that game closer. But as it was, each starter had to play a certain way, as to not get in foul trouble, so we gave away one of our playstyle/philosophical "edges" that normally we can employ on an off-shooting day...?

And, notice Self is already playing 10 deep, even well into conference play: that's huge for Bill Self and his "7 or 8man rotations". Nice to see big guy is staying adaptable. Yes, 2012 roster overachieved a bit, but once there, you realize analytically what that team/roster needed to play a more competetive game in an off-shooting win that 1 game.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 10 months ago

BMU: AW3 didn't say "I'm not transferring" and didn't squash it. I recall Jesse Newell, on twitter or on another site, stating that he thought the response by White was vague as well.

Here's the quote from AW3. He played Jan. 5 vs. SDSU ahead of CF and Greene. Then after this was released, he hasn't played since.

Though there has been some online speculation about White transferring, he said that thought wasn’t on his mind. “It would be selfish to think about another school at this point in the year. We’re not even halfway through the season,” White said. “So right now, I’m just trying to help this team, play as much as I can and do what I have to do to help this team win. I’m not thinking about transferring anything. I’m just focused on Kansas basketball.”

And Erich: Self is playing 10 guys, but he's only playing 7 guys "rotation minutes" now. It's pretty much Mason off the bench, then Traylor and/or Black (and Black averages less than 10 per game).

CF and Greene got four minutes each last game. They are not getting rotation minutes. Not even close. Playing bits and pieces, I highly doubt, would be what AW3 would be looking for his junior season.

And last season, Self only played four perimeter players too -- Tharpe, EJ, BMac, and Releford. So it's three seasons now.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 10 months ago

Oh, that article is interesting. That article was dated January 6th and the interview was probably the day before so that was almost 2.5 weeks ago. A lot of things can change during that time. And...during that time AWIII has played zero minutes.

I think you wrote a really good post outlining AWIII possibilities in terms of the rotation and the potentially rotation going forward with CF, Greene, Oubre, etc.

In this day age of College Athletics where it's all about the "Instant Gratification", I seriously think AWIII needs to think twice about transferring. Transferring is the easy way out IMO. AWIII has been in the system two years and if he red-shirts next year...I would take a red-shirt junior that has AWIII's bulk and shooting ability over any incoming Freshman in the country.

Yes, AWIII has some speed and quickness issues to work on, but I think that comes with minutes and just letting the kid play. It is amazing what happens to a kid when a Coach finally trusts you and don't have to look over your shoulder about playing time.

I can toally see AWIII being a Darius Miller type down the road. Darius Miller played 4 years, was mixed in with all those OAD's and he managed himself to get paid playing basketball in the NBA, NBDL, and probably overseas if his brief NBA stay doesn't work out.

IMO, if Self wants him gone he'll be gone, but I think that's a poor way to handle your program and I've been critical of not only Self but college coaches across America who force kids out of their program.

You are right about Self's quotes on what he has/hasn't said, but I also think Self needs to be a little more positive when addressing this issue. I don't understand why either if AWIII is such a good kid on why he wouldn't have quotes similar to what he did with Relly. The kid has potential, he's just not there yet. Nothing wrong with that. That's why it's called a "Career" and not just a player's season.

I mean, they won't be talented, but a 22 and 23 year old AWIII and Landen Lucas that are skilled and know Bill Self's system. I would actually like to see that.

Michael Pannacciulli 8 years, 10 months ago

Brett...No offense but its hard to get excited about any two star recruit. I like Charlie, I want our team to be great. Now back to what we are all here for. I thought Frank was great Monday. He got us going. Once he did everyone played well. I would love to see Wiggins as a senior in college to enjoy the maturation process...pipe dream of course. Most days he seems like the little brother who has all the promise in the world...just needs time, more than we expected, to be great. He is smart, and uber-physically gifted. Will be great to see him fill out, develop his shot more, be a shut down defender...and as we all say, pick up the intensity level more.

Selden's dive was sick. I could watch that play and basket by Embid all day. Awesome hustle.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 10 months ago

We need the emotions Seldens brings to the team. We can do without the constand unforced turnovers, A bit better defensive play would also help.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 10 months ago


1] Wayne's hustle play will go into the Kansas Hall of Fame Memory Bank along with Mario's Miracle, Manning's Driving Bucket and Bruise against Stacy in '88, Moody's Behind --the-back Pass to Giddens, TRob's Sky Block against Missouri among many others we have all been priviledged to witness

2] Brianna....easy girl....we're all on the same team here. :) I do agree with you, however...AWIII needs to take a 2014/15 redshirt and come back strong in 2015/16.

3] Frank Mason is slowly and consistently putting us out of the race for those two point giuard friends of Alexander and Turner.

4] The latest rumor is now Jo Jo is better than 50/50 coming back for another year. His father is very pleased with his son's total experience at Kansas and says he should be in no hurry to sacrifice a special part of his life. [Money is not a problem....his family is very well off.] I guess we'll just have to wait and see. If we win an NC, I think he's gone...if not, maybe he stays.

5] THINK ABOUT IT....Jo Jo and 'Lex the Great on the front line next season!! Their biggest competition will be battling each other for rebounds, stuffs and blocks!!

6] Saturday, we return to the scene of the crime at TCU..luckily virtually everyone who contributed to that humiliating defeat has moved on and this year's team will start fresh. [ P.S. T.C.U is A.W.F.U.L. ]

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 10 months ago

3) Got that right. Do you see/project any HS juniors that can come in as Freshemen and take time from Lucas, Greene, Michaelson, AWIII, Greene, Frankamp, Mason? That's why the 2115 recruinting class will likely not see a signee higher that 30s in Rivals.

4) Stayed at the Oread over the OSU and BU games. Spent some time with several NBA scouts, including Chris Mullin. There was alot of speculation Embiid would stay but whenever he did come out he would go 1.

5) I DO NOT WANT TO THINK ABOUT much of a distraction from this year. HOWEVER, I stay close to several Chicago people close to the CPL and everyone raves about The Great One.

6) I'll be at TCU...again. I'm reminded of the quote from Startreck when Khan Noonien Singh (Ricardo Montalban) said " Ahh Kirk, revenge is a dish best served cold."

Jeremy Paul 8 years, 10 months ago

I've always wondered what happened to all the guys who transferred out during the Bill Self era. Here's what I've come up with:

Anrio Adams- transferred to Ohio, never made the team.

Milton Doyle- averaging 32 mpg, 15 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.2 apg this year at Loyola, Il.

Merv Lindsay- averaging 2.7 mpg, .6 ppg, .3 rpg this year at New Mexico.

Royce Woolridge- averaging 9.2 ppg, 2 rpg, 3.1 apg this year at Washington St.

Quintrell Thomas- 6.6 ppg, 4.4 rpg, in 4 years at UNLV.

CJ Giles- kicked off team, had 6.3 ppg, 5.6 rpg at Oregon St before being kicked off their team. Now plays in the Bahrain Basketball Association.

Micah Downs- averaged 8.1, 7.9, 9.6 ppg; 3.7, 3.7, 4.6 rpg in 3 years at Gonzaga. Is in the D-League.

Nick Bahe- averaged 4.4 ppg in 3 years at Creighton.

Alex Galindo- averaged 13.9, 13.3, 14.4 ppg; 5.9, 6.7, 4.8 rpg in 3 years at Florida International. Now in the Puerto Rican League.

JR Giddens- 15.8, 16.3 ppg; 6.5, 8.8 rpg; 2.3, 3.1 apg in 2 years at New Mexico. Played in 38 games in NBA, now in Italy.

David Padgett- 11.8, 9.5, 11.2 ppg; 6.1, 5.6, 4.8 rpg in 3 years at Louisville. Now an assistant coach at IUPUI.

Omar Wilkes- 5.9 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 1 apg in 4 years at Cal.

Conclusion: not really sure. Doyle and Woolridge are having pretty good years. Galindo, Giddens and Padgett had pretty decent careers. I know that not everyone on this list transferred because of playing time--there were also personality clashes, meddling girlfriends, and a stabbing. But I think for the most part, guys thought the grass was going to be greener somewhere else and for most it wasn't.

I hope White sticks around. I think he's a good player and seems like a decent guy. Just work hard in practice and get better.

Nick Rushton 8 years, 10 months ago

Hey can you do that same type of analysis for shooting guards that averaged less than 3 mins per game their first two years at KU?

Jack Wilson 8 years, 10 months ago

Nice list .. add Zach Peters and Tyrone Appleton off the top of my head.

Only one I had any heartburn over was Alex Galindo. But that passed quickly.

Jeremy Paul 8 years, 10 months ago

I forgot about Appleton, and I left Peters off the list because I thought he just withdrew from school--he's now a redshirt at Arizona.

I'm with you on Galindo. I thought he was pretty scrappy.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 10 months ago

And actually on Peters, the NCAA waived his requirement to sit out this season. So he's active.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 10 months ago

Jeremy, thanks for the great info. HEM, I'm with you about Galindo. It would be extra heartburn for me if we lost any of the guys off this team, like AWIII. AWIII is a real gentleman and his heart is in the right place. We should all be proud ho how well he represents the University and team.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 10 months ago

That's good stuff right there. Brannen Greene reminds me of Galindo at times and the similarities in their games.

Mike Riches 8 years, 10 months ago

What is the over/under on the percentage of the crowd made up of KU fans at the TCU game? There are so many Jawhawk fans in DFW, the game sold out within hours, and are there really any TCU fans that think they'll beat KU two years in a row? As painful as it was to watch last year, losing that game may actually be a good thing for this year's squad. No way this becomes a trap game now, Coach Self will have plenty of material to get these guys fired up for Saturday. That's not to mention guys like Tharpe and Ellis who were part of that awful game. KU 94 - TCU 66.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 10 months ago

We are 5/6 games into conference and it has been interesting to see the other teams lose so many games. When Conference started I figured 4 losses, maybe 5 would win it. Now BU has 4, ISU 3, OSU and KSU 2, all with harder remaining schedules than we have. We still have some tough games ahead, both at home and on the road, but it is extremely encouraging.

Would like to take a informal poll, 5/6 games in how many losses do you think it will take to win the conference title this year?

Nick Rushton 8 years, 10 months ago

That is a great question! OSU and KSU will both probabaly lose 2 more, ISU will lose at least 1 more. I think 3 losses will win the Big 12 outright this year.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 10 months ago

I agree that 3 losses wins the Big 12 this year. Now, depending on when those losses occur and a Big 12 tournament win....I think KU gets a #1 seed. If KU should only lose two more and win the Big 12 Tournament...I think they will be a #1 seed. It's all going to matter on the "Timing" of the losses.

Commenting has been disabled for this item.