Kansas defeats Oklahoma, 90-83

  • 6 p.m., Jan. 8, 2014
  • Lloyd Noble Center, Norman, OK

Wednesday, January 8, 2014

Good talk: Selden responds to Self’s challenge in win at Oklahoma

Kansas guard Wayne Selden lets out a roar after a three-pointer against Oklahoma during the second half on Wednesday, Jan. 8, 2013 at Lloyd Noble Center in Norman, Oklahoma.

Kansas guard Wayne Selden lets out a roar after a three-pointer against Oklahoma during the second half on Wednesday, Jan. 8, 2013 at Lloyd Noble Center in Norman, Oklahoma.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Bill Self talks Wayne Selden and his technical foul after 90-83 win over Oklahoma

Bill Self talks Wayne Selden and his technical foul after 90-83 win over Oklahoma.

Download podcast

Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Perry Ellis, Wayne Selden, Naadir Tharpe talk after 90-83 victory at Oklahoma.

Perry Ellis, Wayne Selden, Naadir Tharpe talk after 90-83 victory at Oklahoma.

Download podcast


Box score

— Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self chose Wednesday’s day-of-the-Oklahoma game shoot-around to tell one of his prize freshmen to look for his shot more in games.

“He’s really been encouraging me. He actually said it today, too,” Wayne Selden said after exploding for a career-high 24 points off 9-of-17 shooting — five of 10 from three — in the Jayhawks’ 90-83 Big 12-opening victory over the Sooners in sold-out Noble Center.

“The confidence my teammates and coaches have in me ... that’s the main thing and being out there just playing, not thinking,” Selden added, when asked about the key to surpassing his previous high of 15 points, set against Duke in November.

Selden’s previous high in shot attempts was 10, also versus Duke. The most threes he’d hit in any game was two against both UTEP and Georgetown. The most he’d attempted in a game was four, three different times.

“I don’t know if he needed it, but we needed it,” Self said of Selden being given an order to shoot. “We need him to be more aggressive looking to score, to be a threat. He’s a starting two guard in our league that has played a lot of minutes in a lot of big games. He’s made 12 threes for the year (coming in). That’s not enough.

“I told all our guys: ‘New stats, new season. We won’t even talk about stats from the first season. Everything is fresh and new from this part forward.’ I think it gave them a bit of a new life so to speak.”

Selden, who hit six of his first eight shots, had 15 of KU’s first 24 points as the Jayhawks led, 24-17, just 8:09 into the game.

“Wayne got us off to a good start,” Self said of the 6-5 native of Roxbury, Mass. “We were a team that that lacked confidence a little bit coming in. It was nice to see a freshman step up and basically give us confidence early on. That was about as well as we executed half-court offense all year in the first half.”

Selden was mighty motivated after failing to score in double figures since hitting for 10 points against New Mexico four games ago.

“I feel I wasn’t playing the best I could play, personally. I feel my teammates and coaches kept encouraging me. I wanted to start off the Big 12 season playing a little bit better,” Selden said.

Selden scored eight points and Perry Ellis (22 points, 11 rebounds) two in a 10-5 run to open the final half and give KU a 60-49 lead. Selden also had perhaps the inspirational play of the night when he dove for a loose ball, controlled it and called a time out with 6:04 left, KU up, 78-74.

“That’s just Kansas Basketball, that’s what I think,” Selden said. “We’re trying to start out Big 12 play on the right foot. We said, ‘We’ve got to go after all loose balls and pick up our defensive intensity.’’’

Self, who had been seeking plays like that during a stretch in which the (10-4, 1-0) Jayhawks had won four of eight games, applauded the effort on the play.

“We attempted to take several charges tonight. We got on the floor a lot,” Self said. “The play where Wayne dove, Perry dove first and Wayne followed it up.

“We showed Aaron Craft’s play to our team 30 times last night.”

Ohio State point guard Craft had a similar play in which he dove for a loose ball Tuesday and tied it up versus Michigan State.

“We haven’t been getting that type of energy and effort, not because they are not trying,” Self said. “For whatever reason we’ve been playing handcuffed and have not been able to let it go. That was some guys letting it go tonight. I was really happy with that.”

Naadir Tharpe, who had three fouls the first half, scored six points and Selden one as KU led, 85-79, at 2:41. Next, Tharpe (17 points, three assists) hit two free throws at 1:06, giving KU an 87-81 advantage. And he hit two more charities at :39.9 as KU led, 89-83, holding off the (12-3, 1-1) Sooners. Cameron Clark led OU with 32 points off 10-of-18 shooting.

Also for KU, Andrew Wiggins had nine points off 2-of-9 shooting, while freshman Conner Frankamp scored five points off 2-of-3 shooting in 13 minutes, sparking KU the first half.

“Coach said before the game he knew everybody was going to play a big role in this game,” Selden said. “He said people were going to step up off the bench. That’s what happened. Everybody stepped up and made shots (29 of 53 for 54.7 percent).

KU will next meet Kansas State at 1 p.m., Saturday, in Allen Fieldhouse.


Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

Super happy to see Selden and Frankamp's performance tonight. Big time response by Ellis after the SDSU flop. Self showed again tonight he is one of the best out there with the way he handled Wayne and tinkered with the line up combinations. The guy is a master motivator how he told Selden to step it up. It we can get a steady performace from the 2 that will be an enormous help. I was amazed to see CF get quality minutes at the point but not surpised to see him in at the 2.

Wiggins seems to be in a deep slump. Not only did he not shoot the ball well, with seems to be his MO, but he got caught napping on the D several time and didn't block out, most notably allowing Spangler to get an OReb and put back late. When Self put him back in at with 3:19 in the game...he looked and played like he didn't care...3 turnovers, no points, no rebounds, no assists, nothing....but did have a nice block with about 23 seconds. Normally Wiggins is solid with the D, for the most part, tonight was a different story. He's got to knock off this weak dipsy doodle nonsense when taking the ball to the hole. He's got to learn to be strong which will also alow him to pick up more fouls. I don't know how Self is going to motivate Wiggins.

Loved the funky googles on Embiid.

Brianna Zaleski 8 years, 7 months ago

I agree w you, completely, on Wiggins. I just saw a kid who didn't really care to be out there and seems to be "biding his time' till the draft. What I also saw was the future, of this team, play together and close out a game. You got the sense that the team played better w Wiggins on the bench. Maybe it was foul trouble. But what I saw was the core of next years team, step up and restore some faith in some of the doubters.
One thing that is never mentioned in our games, is how much attn is paid to Wigs by the opposing team. For how poorly he's played, as of late, you can tell teams are game planning to NOT have Wigs beat them. He's constantly on the minds of the opposing coaches and defenders. If Selden and Perry and Joel continue to make them pay for that, then the more Wigs' game will open up. For a kid who thrives in space, it's hard to do that when you've constantly have 2-3 sets of eyes on you.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

No way Wiggins is just waiting for the draft. He might be but I just don't see it. Anytime a player does do that, its a huge knock on their character and their edge. If the NBA see that, the kids draft stock will plummet. The NBA would see him as a risk because if he didn't want to play in your city, he'd quit. I played sports laid back and work laid back. Its always misinterpreted as I'm not caring,which to me is an insult. It questions my integrity and is very unjust. Wiggins knows he can't suck in college because it could cost him draft spots and big $. Let's not question his motive based on a bad game. A fair critique would be he mentally zones out and isn't always fully concentrated. He might be sandbagging it but I don't think he is that stupid and he is a smart kid.

Len Shaffer 8 years, 7 months ago

Good points, Ethan. Let's also not forget that he was in foul trouble, so he may have been tentative and unsure about how much he could risk another foul.

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 7 months ago

Wiggins is clearly frustrated with his play. But he needs to listen to Coach, play hard defense, and keep working on getting close shots.

So far this season he seems to be best not when we drives to the basket for an acrobatic layup, but when he drives to the paint for a short controlled pull-up or floater from 6-10 feet out.

The thing that I'm most concerned about with Wigs is that in the huddle late in the game when Bill Self was talking to the team he wasn't looking at Coach and he didn't seem to be interested in whatever was being said. He was staring off into space blank-faced. He needs to listen to coach and find ways to stay plugged in even when the shots aren't falling.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

We are going to win despite Wiggins, not because of him.

I never thought I would think that before the season started. He sure watches more than I thought he would, instead of jumping in the mix. No idea why, he rarely gets fired up, he just does his 30 mins.+ and moves on. Its like watching a surfer waiting for a wave.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

To make a blanket statement like that is foolish. Every game stands as a unique individual occurrence. There will be games where it is VITAL that we get everything possible from wiggins to win and there will be games where Wiggins could sit on the bench the whole game and we would win by double digits. It's totally match up dependent. We aren't beating Okie State without a good game from Wiggins at both ends of the floor. I wouldn't be surprised to see him guarding Smart in that game.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

Benz your posts are so off base sometimes I wonder where you are coming from. Truly amazing.

If Wiggins is going to play 75% of every game I would like see that time put to constructive use. He takes plays off, stands around and at times seems disinterested. His play down the stretch last night is case in point. We won even though he made it harder on us to close out.

This is not an example of an off night. Our 7 footer had an off night, but he played hard every minute.

Keep posting please, you do make me smile.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

All I am saying is that it is ridiculous to think that he will always play like that, just as it was obviously ridiculous to think that Seledn would never have a good game.

How is it off base to think that there will be some games where Wiggins might actually be PART of the reason we win and not always a hindrance to winning as your statement of "We are going to win despite Wiggins, not because of him" states?

I agree that there are times where Wiggins appears to coasting. I simply do not feel that this is the ONLY mode that he will play in for every remaining minute of play in the rest of the season. Too many people think one small sample is the way things will ALWAYS be and it is simply foolish, just as Selden showed us last night.

I am simply calling out blanket statements as foolhardy. You can call them off base all you want but am 100% guaranteed to be right. There will be multiple games this year where Wiggins is the main reason we win the game. I understand your frustration with seeing any player appear to be unfocused and not locked in; I share that frustration. Just don't assume it will always be that way because you are guaranteed to be wrong, especially with a player of that skill level.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

You are not even close, I was not being vague about Wiggins. He can be locked in and lost on the same play. He has shown no indication that he will lead this team, that he will be the guy on this team.

We will win despite him, not because of him, means that he while he plays for us he is unlikely to be the reason we win. He we get his minutes and make some great plays, score his points. But he will not take over a game. It is just not within him. He might be one of the guys who helped, just as likely that he won't be.

When you say something absurd, I will be responding Benz. Not going to let Blanket statements that you make about people views being unworthy of a post, just because you disagree.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

"You are not even close, I was not being vague about Wiggins."

Oh, I know. You were very specific that Wiggins will never be the reason Kansas wins a game. How can you be 100% sure? Did you think that from what you saw of him in previous games that Black could hang 17 points in 20 minutes on Georgetown? Did you see from previous games that Selden could have his way with Oklahoma?

"But he will not take over a game. It is just not within him."

I can assure you I will be back to remind you of this comment if you are wrong. "Will not" means that it will never happen and I do not ever use the word "never" when saying what could happen in future games. It just paints you into a corner.

How do you know what is "in him?" Lots of sit down conversations with Andrew? Or just speculating based on what we have seen in the past games, ignoring how Andrew DID take over the Duke game, scoring 16 points in the 2nd half, playing lockdown defense on Jabari Parker, hitting multiple HUGE shots, etc... History tells me that he DOES have it in him.

Besides, I really don't WANT any one player "taking over". KU's system doesn't require it. We just need everyone to do only their job, no more, no less. Part of Wiggins job is to be assertive and aggressive on offense and he hasn't been doing that as much as he needs to be. I am sure we all, you, me, Self and Wiggins included, agree on that.

Kansas is not in the position that Duke is in this year. If parker does not have a good game, Duke is GOING TO lose because they have no other good players capable of having good games. Kansas has numerous players capable of providing more than enough. When Selden had the hot hand going for 15 points in the first 8 minutes why on earth would anyone want Wiggins thinking "I really need to find a way to take over this game?"

If you ultimately want Wiggins to have huge stats so that KU fans can have bragging right over the other big programs with elite freshmen, that is another issue altogether. I simply choose to see the fact that Wiggins has tremendos ability and talent and could at some in the future of this season's basketball team be the guy that is the difference between winning and losing. With such a balanced roster, KU doesn't need him to lead the team in scoring every night.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

Mercy this might be harder than I thought.

Wiggins takes to many plays off. and or another way he does not play through each play. He takes a shot, does not rebound, next play he makes a lazy pass. Then gets mad at himself and plays like he can and punishes a defense as he shuts down their best scorer. He can not be counted on, thus we will win despite him not because of him. Which was my original statement, that you took issue with. He has the skill set to be the best player on the court every play, but he isn't. Nothing he has done, nothing you have said has explained that either.

As is your way not sure where you are going with your post. You called my post a blanket statement. A blanket statement is a vague statement about a subject. Then in this post you say it was specific. Can't be both Benz...Can't be both. Also how do you know what the future will be either? So anything you reference about how he will or might play, falls under your own comment. If you are right, then you would be wrong about stating what he can or might do in the future. Where are you going?

Amazing futility.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

I agree that Wiggins has taken plays off IN THE PAST. He has also had games where he has had stretches of being great.

NO ONE on this team has shown that they can be counted on regardless of the match up. Not Ellis, not Embiid, not Tharpe, not Wiggins. No one. It doesn't mean that they aren't capable of ever doing it.

"Also how do you know what the future will be either? So anything you reference about how he will or might play, falls under your own comment."

I might actually have felt my brain cells dying reading this. The ENTIRE POINT I am trying to make is that we have NO IDEA what any future games will be so we shouldn't just be giving up on players. Wiggins could go on a streak and tear the league apart. Do I think he WILL? Probably not. Is it possible? Sure. We'll see soon enough.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 7 months ago

He was in foul trouble early and often in this game. It gave guys like Greene and Frankamp extra time so I am not complaining. We know what Wiggins is and he's second on the team behind Embiid in positive +/- ratio by a wide margin so I think Wiggins will be fine.

I was more worried about Wayne Selden the most and him becoming a threat did wonders for this squad last night.

Mick Allen 8 years, 7 months ago

Congratulations Suzi. Your hope to get Frankamp some time happened and he was solid. Two big makes before half gave us a jolt of momentum. His 7 minute start in the second half was solid in not turning the ball over. I made a special effort to watch him on defense after our discussion yesterday and generally he was able to stay in front of his man. As he stated his defense has improved. I thought 2 of his 4 fouls were phantom fouls in a very poorly officiated game. Without a doubt I thought we were the victim of some home cooking. Naadir had an excellent game as did Wayne and Perry. Everything looks better when the ball goes in the basket. They seemed to play more relaxed and free and easy, which in part is attributable to OU's relaxed approach to defense. They are content to trade baskets. Comparing OU's philosophy on playing defense to SDSU's is night and day. Encouraging start to the conference season.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

I knew the coaches were talking about getting him in the games that's why we looked over his play in all the previous games the night before. It didn't take long. However, as we discussed yesterday, I thoujght Self would get his time at the 2 but unexpected things happened (Tharpe's foul troubles and Selden's new look) and Self adjusted. The team has an entirely different look when Selden and Frankamp are playing well. Selden brings great energy and emotions while Frankamp provides great spacing, Selden diving for that ball was magnificient! Teams pretty well know that Frankamp is in the game for only one reason, to shoot the 3 ball. Since he is a credible threat, even with his .219 avg, they can't collapse. Did you see the replay of CF that showed him looking out for a screen being set on him? He proceeded to get through the screen. He's a smart kid and reminds me of Lon Kruger when he played for KState.

Self is a master. I wouldn't mind Kansas naming the new basketball dorm after Self. Allen Field House was named after Phog when he was still coaching. Self already has a mythic record, so why not? That is one check we will gladly write.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

Frankamp was in because Tharpe was in foul trouble and didn't have a big problem guarding because the Oklahoma guards weren't very dynamic athletes. It was a good matchup for him. It doesn't mean he would be as good against other teams.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

And correct me if I am wrong but I do not remember Frankamp leading the team on the break even once in his entire time on the floor. When he was in it was purely half court offense mode. He never seemed to put any pressure on the defense.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

That is true and why he played alot at 1. I was expecting his PT would be at the two, which he did get some time. I doubt you will see Frankamp leading many breaks or driving the lane. Like I said, he will be on the court for only one reason and that is to present a credible deep threat and keep defenses honest, i.e. not let other teams do a SDSU to us. Think about the Bulls great championship teams. What role did John Paxson and later Steve Kerr play? That is Frankamps role this year.

Mick Allen 8 years, 7 months ago

Suzi I have told my friends that if HCBS wins another national championship I would not oppose the renaming of the field house to Allen-Self Field House, which should make it abundantly clear the great respect I have for coach Self, although if such a renaming is done it could lead to some interesting family discussions.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

Blasphemy, Heresy I say to you!!! AFH will never change or be modified.

Self, following Naismith and Allen, is becoming the third great contributor to the Kansas Basketball legacy. Another five years and a NC will solidify that position. However, the consecutive conference championships merits momentous praise. We have appropriate sites named for Phog and Naismith. Perhaps by the time it is build, Self will bet his second. It’s time we start thinking of Self. The new dorm is an opportunity.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

If Self coach's as long as Allen, then maybe we can have a committee to talk about it. I might be dead in 30 more years, so might I say how about a street?

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

For Phog’s 39 years at Kansas, he won 590 games, 24 conference championships and three national titles. We all know the rest of the story, like getting the game in The Olympics, starting the NACB, a mythical coaching tree, etc, etc.

Self could never approach Phog's contribution to the growth of the game but he is in reach of his on-court performance. In + 10 years Self has: 300 wins, 9 conference championships and 1 NC. Like Mick said, another NC will firmly put him on the pantheon of Kansas greats. If Self continues the pace, in five years when this complex opens, he could have +420 wins 11-15 conference titles and 2-3 NCs. Self could eclipse Phog’s on-court record if he stays for another 9 years.

Five years hence, I suspect you might be close to the front of the parade to memorialize Self’s contribution to the mythic Kansas basketball heritage.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

I would be honored to throw red, white and blue rose petals the entire route. Renaming AFH, hmm I would like to see him have at least 1 if not 2 more NC.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

I would never be OK with renaming Allen Fieldhouse no matter what Self accomplishes in his time here. AFH's place in the sport goes beyond Self's time here. I would have zero problem renaming the Court and having Naismith's name continue to be on Naismith Drive. Let's be honest. Naismith didn't invent the game AT KANSAS. He never coached the team at AFH. He wasn't even a huge fan of the game or of having the game coached, preferring wrestling as a better form of exercise.

It's fun to have a tie to the originator of the game, but if Self achieves some serious things in his time at KU, I wouldn't mind seeing the name on the floor change. Just my opinion.

Robert G Heckler 8 years, 7 months ago

Looks like a focus on offense seems to work better for this team than a focus on defense. Probably more fun for them.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

Glad the folks on these boards aren't coaching the team or Selden would have never even been in the game...

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

I am glad you are not coaching the team either Benz.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

SO AM I. I do not professs to know the best way to coach a team so a make no attmpt to question what the coaches decisions are. I know how to be a good athlete so I stick to questioning how the athletes go about their business.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

So should we check with you first on what is allowed to be posted, what topics? Please if you have guidelines, post the link so we do not violate your rules.


Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

My, my, you have quite the issue with me, don't you? Just laughing about how many people were calling out Self, pissed that Selden was still playing over Greene or White or any other live body. Fans overreact. Fans get pissed when their teams lose and think that the coach is a moron for not making some change that THEY believe is the reason they lost.

I just found it hilarious how the same people calling Selden "Seldom" and calling for his benching are now singing his praises. The players with the best upside should play and I trust that Bill Self will figure out the best way to get the maximum upside out of the people he chooses to play, just as he did with Selden and just as he has done with virtually all talented players he has coached.

People can post all the things they want. Just be prepared to have it pointed out when it blows up in your face and looks foolish. I am GLAD that people post silly stuff like "Coach Self should bench (fill in the blank). He sucks and will never get any better." Maybe we should bench Wiggins since he played bad last night.

Thank goodness our coach has more confidence in the players than a portion of our fanbase is all I am saying. If my wording is too harsh for you then so be it.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

I will be pointing out the things you say that are foolish as well Benz. I have issues with people who think they can just disrespect others cause they can. Your voice is no more important, then anyone else's. I always stand up to those who act, well harsh to others to use your word .

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

I have never stated once that people should not be allowed to post. Have at it. Just as they are allowed to post, I am allowed to respond to them. I am a big boy, I can handle any backlash.

Bottom line, I have faith in the coaches and the players that they will do their jobs until they give me ample reason to believe that they are not capable of doing it. Selden has disappeared frequently do date but that doesn't mean he will do it forever.

Self has shown that if he does not like what he sees from a player in practice or in a specific match up that he will put that player on the bench. If Self thought he had a better option than Selden then he would have used it. Instead he chose to place his belief in Selden and continued to work on him as a player and person to find the right button to push to get the best out of him.

He has shown ample evidence over the years of being able to do this with all types of different players having struggles on the court. That is why I don't squawk about who is getting playing time. Most people griping about playing time are doing it purely in hindsight of what transpired in a previous game. Wouldn't it be nice to have that info as a coach when you are making decisions IN the game?

I simply find that coaching from a keyboard after the game is over is silly. If you find it to be an exercie you enjoy then by all means please continue to do so. We all use these boards for entertainment; if that is what you or others find to be entertaining then fire away. I have no problem with that.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

Don't worry Benz, Mr. Crain did they same thing to me a few months back. He thinks a board is a place you can post your mind without being told that your flat out wrong. He then loves to pull the card that he acts like you think you are the only who is right and the world revolves around you. To accomplish this, he then repeats the same action with more aggressiveness but repeats his arguments, thus by definition making him a hypocrite. He did say Wiggins will be the reason we lose not win, and I agree it is a foolish blanket statement implying Wiggins won't ever help us win. However then he has no issues saying he will call you out on foolish statements. Lacking all understanding that fighting fire with fire only works in war.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

Hi Ethan, nice post lol, nice references. Benz thanks you for helping him I am sure. So wonderful to hear from you again.

Yes I get upset with people like you and Benz who think it is ok to call people names or act like others do not get the freedom to say what they think without being called stupid or foolish or any of the other things they think will shout down people from have a different thought then they do.

I do not mind dealing with folks who think their thoughts are the only ones who should be heard.

I see your name calling is back, oh well, some folks just cannot change. Only way to make your point I guess.

I will always stand up to people like you Ethan. Always.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

You can call an idea or a statement silly and not be calling the person who created it stupid. Don't be so overly delicate.

Smart people make stupid comments all the time.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

ps- Ethan what I do does not make me a Hypocrite, I am reflecting back to you your words to see if you like it. Guess what you don't. If I was a Hypocrite I would use words like that to begin my posts, like you and Benz sometimes do. If you do not like the reflection, I would suggest that you approach disagreeing with others without being so condescending. You don't like it when done to you, no one else does either.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

But you in the past have had no issue telling people they were wrong while using strong vocabulary. Benz pointed out that your opinion was foolish and it was. By definition foolish is simply unwise. It is unwise for you to say a kid like Wiggins will be the reason we lose, not win. He didn't say you were a fool, just what you said. Hypocrite is someone who contradicts their own personal belief. You believe that everyones opinion is intelligent and shouldn't be called on it. I don't mind if I stated a foolish opinion and someone called me on it. But that has very rarely happened. There is a grand difference of the right to say something and the ability. I cannot deny someone's right, but I will debate someone and that is my right. In my case a few months ago, I could understand the frustration because I was annoyed with all the whiners. However, with Benz you were to sensitive. You are not a knight for standing up to us, but maybe approach it differently. By trying to shove it back in our face is only evidence of a double standard, not a misconceived hero.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

Sorry missed typed, it is foolish to say we will win despite him not because of him.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

There are many, almost all on here, that disagree with each other without calling the other person a name, such as you are a fool, or a whiner. You two seem unable to actually disagree with someone without insulting them in the process. To act condescending to them, like they were stupid to open their mouth on here cause you, only you, think that what they said should not have been said at all. You hate it when I show you what it feels like, so it puzzles me that you still want to do it.

When you do that I will object, every time. I would do it if you two were doing it at a game, or in a bar, or anywhere else. There is no need for it when almost everyone else can do it without it.

Does not make me a hero, does not make it a double standard, or me being a hypocrite. You see most people today just ignore this, they just don't care about it anymore, don't want to stand up in front of anyone who does this and say "not sure why you think it is ok to do this in public but it is not".

So Ethan either you two can be respectful to others on here or I will call you on it. See if you are respectful, you will never hear from me directly again.

ps- it is a public forum here, which means ability and right are actually equal. there is no minimum requirement to post here. If you dismiss any comment, you are restricting right, thus neither are in place. Also you forgot the other part of the definition of Foolish, lacking good sense or judgement. Ethan do you really think no one has ever thought something you posted was foolish? Maybe everyone else was just being respectful, kind, or just letting it go. Be well Ethan always nice to discuss ethics with you.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

Taking the right away from someone means physically they are not able to do something anymore. Once again I have seen you disrespect others opinion also, but didn't think you were off base. Let's go back to your original comment and disect it. You said we will win despite not because of him. 14 games into a season with a supremely talented player is unwise to make a general statement like that. I think Duke game we won because of him. My issue is this, and its the only time that get me riled up. When we accuse players of not caring just because of a bad game or a loss. I know how that feels cause my personality leads to the same accusations. (Not saying you did this BTW). I feel that it is extremely disrespectful to accuse such things without more evidence then "how they look.". Back to the issue, I have been on these boards a long time, back when people had no filters. And in fact that one time I blew up a few months ago was one of the few that I got aggressive. I'm believed in Turner Gill and was called foolish for that and I deserved it. Calling a thought foolish isn't name calling, its a critique, a aggressive one but none the less a critique of a certain idea. He didn't single you out on a personal level like you have done to others and like I have done to others. For which I did apologize seeing how it could frustrate. Mr. Crain, it is obvious that you are very intelligent and a great debator. But with this particular case, you felt attacked because someone disagreed with you. Thus making you go follow his other comments and be disrespectful towards him. Without provided much critique on what he said. I understand your tactic of thinking we are bullies so you must give us the same medicine but we are not that. We are fans who love our teams. My boundary as I said is when we question the integrity based off a result. I have learned to express my distaste better but I think we should all learn because it is disrespectful to assume that our guys don't care. Also my comment on right and ability was stupid. Right and ability go hand in hand. However I have no power to take someone's right on this board.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

All this bickering is draining. I don't think you are in the right but I don't think I am either. I'm done with the argument. Felt what you said about Wiggins below is spot on.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

I disagree with your reply but will respect your request to move on.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

I can see why so many people have left these boards. If kubuckets ran in my web browser at work I would too.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

Let's all just post "Selden was great last night!"

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

People have left these boards due to the Facebook link requirement that forced them to actually be linked to a real person. Tom K posted right after it that the staff was looking forward to eliminating the faceless posters who were not KU fans or trolls who felt they could say anything. He went on to say that now the writers would get engaged in the comments section since they could tell who they were responding to. I also believe it was also related to the money of tying Facebook links to the comments section thus enabling the site to sell or get money for that information. I get why they did it, ESPN does it this way, Fox Sports, others. You don't think they care who or even if anyone posts do you? If you want I can try to help you find a browser that works for kubuckets... But I am on there too.... so

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

Any writer who says they are more prone to comment now that real names are on here is simply spewing the company line. What difference does the name above my post make? Are they going to look me up in the phone book and call me to discuss it? NO. So why would they be more likely to respond knowing what my actual name is? That's a load of crap. We all know it.

What matters are the comments, and they can either choose to respond to them or not. I don't even LOOK at the name of the people that post comments I respond to. It makes no difference.

The Facebook policy was 100% about a cash grab for advertising. They can say whatever they want; it's BS.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

Benz I am getting the hang of your posts I think, kind of a moving target I see, ok I will adjust moving forward.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

I work in a sensitive area of a very large bank and we are not allowed to install ANY software on our systems here for security reasons. I know what browsers there are that would work but I cannot use them at work. It's not an option. Our corporate security folks are hard core.

Alex Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

What a great rebound for our team. We really needed this win tonight going into such a tough stretch of games. I don't think we'll be a national title contender this year but I'm thoroughly enjoying watching future KU stars get their feet under them. This team reminds me of when Collison, Hinrich, Goodson or Chalmers, Wright, Rush were freshmen. We might not hit our ceiling this year but there is something special about this class. We just have to put up with some games where inexperience has to be worked out.

Even tonight it seemed like we played pretty good defense but OU made some great mid range shots. Especially Clark. If they play like that against the other Big XII teams they will be a tough team to beat every game. Maybe Ole' Lon is an underrated coach.

Alex Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

*supposed to say Gooden. Dang spell check.

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 7 months ago

we SHOULD be title contenders this year. I think that we will be

John Randall 8 years, 7 months ago

What great strategy by HCBS – keeping Wayne under wraps until the conference season opens!

Steve Zimmerman 8 years, 7 months ago

“That’s just Kansas Basketball, that’s what I think” - yeah, I'd like to see more of this kind of offense & effort. We looked fluid, moving the ball, driving, shooting with confidence, rebounding, good D. That's what I've been expecting.

Selden starts to figure things out. Embiid is keeping up with his progress. Frankie needs more minutes & shooting with confidence. Greene is learning the system.

Wiggins? He just needs to hear "overrated" chant from the crowd - that'll get him pumped up.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

I agree. At that point in the game, I was picking up my daughter at swim practice and listening to the game on XM radio which was using the Oklahoma feed of the game. The OU announcers were clear that they thought Ellis and Selden's efforts to get to that ball really showed that they simply wanted it more. It sounded like it was a very pivotal moment.

I am glad to hear Selden state that this is how Kansas basketball is expected to be played because HE'S RIGHT.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

Its a road win, and it was nice to see improved offense with perimeter shooting, strong drives to the hole, and better post play. Great day for Wayne, and good to see for Conner. Our defense is a mess, still are not blocking out well enough, not guarding shooters, and using fouling the guy to stop penetration. Even though we out rebounded them, it never felt like we were controlling the boards.

By defending the way we are, we are going to allow an opponent to be in the game till the end, and require us to close it out to win it. Our team is shaky doing that still so we are going to have to excel on offense to overcome that. A very hard hand to keep playing as the competition in conference rises.

Wiggins, its like watching a Ferrari 458 Italia being driven by a 5 year old right now. Every once in a while he hits the accelerator and its beautiful, even breathtaking.
But there are too many times where it just sits there with the engine revving like he is playing with the seat adjustment. Stops and starts to much, all over the place, on and on. Boy would it be fun to see that car driven like it was built to for a full game.

Craig Carr 8 years, 7 months ago

Wiggins is a freshman and above average for that. He will turn pro and be lucky if he is ever anything more than a role player off the bench, his skill set and build is not suitable for the NBA. Unfortunate as KU needs a difference maker in the NBA as Pierce is nearing the end of his career. Going to be interesting to see if Coach Self reevaluates the kids he concentrates on.

Len Shaffer 8 years, 7 months ago

So Craig, you're saying that all of the experts and scouts who are saying even now that Wiggins will be one of the top three picks in the draft are wrong and that you know more than they do???

It looks like it will be a pretty strong class this year, and if Wiggins does indeed become one of the top picks, I doubt seriously that he'll be that big a bust in the NBA.

Alex Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

I'm definitely cheering for Wiggins to be a successful ball player but top 3 picks like Hasheem Thabeet, Michael Beasley, Adam Morrison, Darko Milicic, etc. prove that scouts can indeed be wrong. As the experts continue to heap praise on Wiggins I'm hoping he doesn't turn out like Marvin Williams, a #2 pick who was drafted because he was a freak athlete but never really put it together. This may show my bias as a college basketball fan but I don't really understand why most players would trade an extra year in college as a college great for a career as an average NBA player (talking about non-lottery picks that come out early). Oh Darrell Arthur, what could have been. Money talks I guess.

Allin Herring 8 years, 7 months ago

Wiggins is the next coming of Josh Selby. He needs to stay another year and get a jump shot, more intensity, and be stronger to the hoop or he can op for the bench in the NBA instructional league (if he can make that) We play much better with him on the bench. Lets quit playing through him.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

We actually don't. Last night's game was one of the few where his plus/minus on the court was less than his plus/minus off the court (called Roland Rating on and his Roland Rating last night was only -5.

Last night's Roland Ratings in order of worst to best: Tharpe: -15 Traylor: -9 Black: -7 Wiggins: -5 White: -3 Ellis: +5 Embiid: +5 Greene: +7 Selden: +9 Frankamp: +19

Take the stats for whatever you want, but there they are. So many factors such as who else is on the floor with you and who the opponent is playing go in to it as well. Traylor seems to only get in the game with other backups, so his RR is negative in almost every game he has played this year. But the difference between Tharpe and Frankamp in this stat was rather alarming.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

Since you are able to predict the future, could you send me the next set of Powerball numbers, please?

Come on, people. Please give me ONE example of an NBA player with elite talent that did not improve from the time they were 19 years old. Let's not lose our minds making grand predictions that are almost 100% guaranteed to be inaccurate.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

Yeah people check with Benz before you post please! He will let you know what you can say.


Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

That wasn't hampered with severe injuries.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

Bowie broke his leg his 2nd year, broke his other leg his 3rd year forcing him to miss almost all his 4th year and broke the first leg again his 5th year. The world is littered with big men that would have been better without a littany of injuries.

Let's ASSUME that Wiggins won't be breaking both his legs and hampering his progression. Still think he has reached his peak and will never be more than a role player off the bench? Let's be serious.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

bad break for Bowie and Portland. Nevertheless he meets the criteria you requested, namely, "a NBA player with elite talent tht did not improve from the time theywere 19 years old." You provide a good example of what you warn against. That is making blanket statements. No slam on you, we all do it.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

Point made. I'll be more explicit...

"Please give me ONE example of an NBA player with elite talent who did not face adversity from significant injury that did not improve from the time they were 19 years old."

I am not saying there isn't a single player out there that due to various unrelated issues (drugs, legal problems, injuries, general knuckleheadedness, etc...) where they did not develop into what people thought they could. But the fact that Wiggins come from a good family and seems to have his head on straight leads me to believe that he will continue to develop and has not reached his peak as the original poster implied.

As I have said before, people are too quick to slam the door on a player if he does pretty much anything that makes that fan upset. We don't need to write off Wiggins entire season and NBA career as a disappointment because he has had a few bad games. Virtually every revered Jayhawk in history has had a few bad games their freshman year.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

Sorry Benz, got to agree with Suzi, Blanket Statements are foolish - as per, well you... (sounds condescending doesn't it) to just put down someone who is making a point.

She is also right, we all do it...

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

A bit is humor is always a good thing. Everyone knows what you mean and you are correct. When talking about Wiggins, I constantly talk to my personal bball hero, MJ. Recall MJ's second year in the playoffs against Boston, a game the Bulls lost. Bird made a statement afterwards that he "had just seen God play basketball." MJ went for someting like 5X in the game. If I correctly recall, most/all of his points were at the rim or FT line. He was something like 0-5 with his J from outside 2 feet.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

Yeah, let that year be a lesson for those out there hoping that Wiggins will "take over games". Michael Jordan averaged 43.7 points, 6 rebounds, 6 assists and 2 steals per game and was the most exciting thing I had ever seen while getting SWEPT out of the playoffs in the first round that year.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

I'll bet you a dollar, since Wiggins having all the MJ comparisons (Maple Jordan), his dad told him those facts often. Hence might explain Wiggins reluctance to take over games and is so team oriented. That doesn't excuse his weak drives. We all will benefit if he develped a bit of aggression on his drives.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

MJ rarely took plays off as a freshman in College, lots of freshman don't. Would just like to see Wiggins play with the same focus.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

Benz, Suzi, a question, one of the knocks on BMac was that NBA teams were looking for an elite player to have that killer instinct when the game is on the line. That BMac was too laid back. Wiggins has not shown this type of mind set in his college game, will or should it hurt him on draft day?

BMac was refreshingly nice, took a picture with my mom after the ISU game in AFH, autographed it, just a nice young man.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

Considering he was a virtual lock as the #1 overall pick, probably yes. Not much, though.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

This was the problem with his expectations. He is averaging 15ppg, which is good for most players. Wiggins is a good freshman. And actually his skill set his very good for the nba, he just needs practice. NBA wants three things on offense

1). Ability to create-check,has the quickest first step 2). Mid Range jumper- he has hit them so they are in his skill set 3). Get to the line- the good players can score from anywhere on the court, the great ones get free points. He gets to the line quite a bit.

The skill set is there, still needs work to be done but more importantly the desire to be great.

Aaron Paisley 8 years, 7 months ago

Wiggins will likely be a much better NBA player than college player because his skill set is much more geared towards the fast paced style of the NBA. That doesn't guarantee he'll be an NBA superstar, just means that his style of play is more compatible with the up tempo pace that accompanies the 24 second shot clock in the NBA as opposed to the slower pace of the 35 second shot clock in college.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

I agree that he will be a better NBA because teams largely don't play any defense in the NBA (regular season) and because of the faster pace. I also assume that he will put on some weight and continue to develop his game.

I think Wiggins is the next Paul George. Similar size and skill set coming out of college. He has developed his game into a total pacage, including being an excellent on-ball defender. Did anyone think Paul George would a Top 5 player in the NBA when he came out of Fresno State? Nope.

Bryce Landon 8 years, 7 months ago

A sold-out Noble Center? Judging by the photos and what Matt Tait told me during live chat, that arena didn't look sold out. (I listened on the radio, so I can't say what it was really like.)

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 7 months ago

I watched on ESPN and there were lots of empty seats early and lots of empty seats late. But it seemed like it was pretty full from about 12:00 of the first half till the 8:00 of the second half.

Robert Brock 8 years, 7 months ago

I was at the game; there were a LOT of empty seats (having a 6PM start is absurd in OKC on a workday). It was nice and quiet.

Aaron Paisley 8 years, 7 months ago

Sellout just means tickets sold, not the turnstile numbers.

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 7 months ago

I apologize if someone's posted this already, but I didn't read the comments yet..

18-0 HERE WE COME!!!

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 7 months ago

I'm joking of course, but seriously, we looked tons better last night and there's no way that we go 9-9 like several people were saying yesterday.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

What's the joke? I don't see a team in the conference or the nation we can't beat. Wins at Ames, Stilwater and Waco would be sweet and send a strong word that our guys are on the way.

Rodney Crain 8 years, 7 months ago

Rarely do you go undefeated without a strong defense and we are not there yet. Still not blocking out either. These next 4 games will be very telling on where we will end up in conference.

Aaron Paisley 8 years, 7 months ago

This is true of KU most years, but only 1 team has gone undefeated in Big 12 play and it's been almost 40 years since any team has gone undefeated through an entire season. Opposing teams today are just too good to beat every time even KU plays their best, but especially when KU has an off night.

Bryce Landon 8 years, 7 months ago

Nobody is going 18-0 through this conference. Ever. Not this season, nor next, nor any other.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

You never know. Okie State and Baylor might figure out that their coaches are the anchor around the ankle of their programs and jettison those two goofs and they both end up in rebuild mode. If(when) Hoiberg heads off to the NBA would Iowa State still be a power? It's not exactly a destination job. Weber will eventually turn into Weber at K-State. Barnes is on thin ice at Texas. Oklahoma is better now but Kruger has been only slightly less nomadic than Larry Brown.

Ku could have one of those years where a combination of program changes around the league and the right roster of players gel together into another undefeated Big 12 run. It's unlikely but certainly not impossible. With a good imagination I can picture a scenario for almost anything to realistically happen.

Titus Canby 8 years, 7 months ago

I'll admit it. I was wrong. I didn't think we'd win this game. Maybe we'll get to 10-8. What do you guys think?

On another note, I just remembered who Wiggins reminds me of. Does anyone remember a guy who Roy referred to as the best athlete he'd ever recruited? Darrin Hancock.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 7 months ago

BigManU Observation and Notes:

That was a much needed road win for the Jayhawks and may be the game that turns the corner for this Jayhawk team. Still a difficult schedule to start the conference slate with OSU, Baylor, K-State, and at Iowa State coming up, but the OU win coupled with the tough non conference slate may have this team prepared. We'll see.

I thought the Jayhawks played with passion and showed an energy that they really haven't showed since the Duke game (Second game of the season). With all that said, I'm staying level headed because OU is a poor man's UNC Roy Williams's squad that doesn't play much defense. Still a great road win for these young Jayhawks.

1) Standing ovation Wayne Selden! Man, where have you been? Welcome to the 2014 Kansas Jayhawks. Amazing what hitting a couple outside jumpers and becoming a threat on offense will do not only for his game individually, but for the entire team. My two favorite plays from Wayne Selden came at the end of the half when Connor nailed that jumper to end the half and Selden was pumped with everybody running off the floor and then when he came clear across the floor and dove for the ball only to get the timeout.

If Selden shows that type of effort and passion every game...I clearly won't be on his case anymore. Hitting those early jumpers opened up everything for him. He was able to drive and create and just looked like the player we all expected. This was your coming out party Wayne Selden. Well done!

I liked when Jay Bilas was talking about Bill Self getting all over Wayne Selden for passing on a shot during a shoot around and telling him that he hurts the team when he doesn't shoot. I hope Self does that at every shoot around.

2) Speaking of Jay Bilas...I think he's the best announcer out there. I always enjoy it when he's calling a game.

3) Amazing what knocking down a couple of shots will do to the ole confidence and spacing on the floor from an offensive standpoint.


Chris Shaw 8 years, 7 months ago

4) It was really good to see Self attempt to get Frankamp and Greene some more minutes. Frankamp on the floor directly forces his man from helping or "Sagging". I liked what Frankamp was doing out there. Granted, it's a slower pace and it takes a little longer for him to get the squad into the offense, but it may be a nice change of pace from Tharpe and Mason. Talk about 3 different gears with Mason, Tharpe, and Frankamp. Frankamp is definitely a threat out there from the arc.

5) Wiggins didn't play well offensively, but he made an impact defensively. I thought he had a couple of bogus fouls, but it gave a couple of other guys opportunities that may benefit Kansas down the road. We know what Wiggins is and he'll bounce back next game.

6) Embiid didn't have a great game stat wise, but man he makes an impact just being out there. Considering the double teams he was getting I thought Embiid did pretty darn well. You could tell his eye was bothering him a little. I really don't worry too much when he is on the floor.

7) I thought Tharpe blended pretty well last night. I didn't like that fall away jumper that swished the bottom of the net, but for the most part I thought Tharpe shot within the confines of the offense, took what the defense gave him, and was a secondary option to the others on the floor. I thought he had a pretty good game. I think Wayne doing what he did and Wiggins just doing his thing took the pressure off of Tharpe, which is a very good thing and a must for this team.

8) This Self team isn't very good defensively. Hopefully it gets better, but the slow it down, grind it out games still scare me going forward this squad. In an up and down game...I think 95 percent of the time it's gonna favor the it did last night.

9) Great consistent game from Perry Ellis. I think Tharpe and Ellis are in the same book that if Embiid, Wiggins, and Selden play really well...their games are going to elevate. If Ellis and Tharpe have to start taking over...I don't know if that's a good thing for the Jayhawks. Great double double by Ellis.

10) 17 more to go for 10 straight!

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

5) Wiggins defense has been a major pleasant surprise to me. Several times he has shown to be a lock down defender and has been nicely consistant with the D. However, last night he uncaracteristically had several significant lapses. He seemed to lack focus. He's a great player but his O contribution will come in transition and other plays at the rim. He doesn't have a J. His D, no J, hops and transition skills remind me so much of MJ's game.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 7 months ago

He had some bogus fouls which takes him out of the flow of the game and on the bench. That Lob foul was ridiculous. The only thing I'm worried about is Wiggins settling on jumpers. If he can knock down a couple perimeter shots per will open up the rest of his game. If he's not hitting then he needs to take the attitude that nobody can stop him from getting to the rim...because when he does that he's shown he can get to the line.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

Wiggins has shown he can be stubborn. It seems he wants to show everyone he has a J. However, his release resulting in the lack of spin betrays him, although his FTs are fine. MJ took years in the NBA to develop a fair J so there is an excellent example of a guy of his skill set making a major contribution. Wiggins should concentrate on getting to the rim with force and know where is bail out will come from. With shooters sitting on good 3 sposts, like Frankamp in the corner, Tharpe off the top of the key couple with well position, Embiid on the weak side block and Ellis on the weekside elbow, the lane will open for Wiggins. If they collapse on him he will know where to find his bail out passes.

Eliott Reeder 8 years, 7 months ago

And then there is his lack of passing ability. He has 19 assists on the year vs 25 turnovers. That's 1.4 assists per game, which, in my opinion is ridiculously low considering all the attention he garners from the other team and his ability to drive and then jump three and a half feet into the air. Every time he drives, by the time he gets near the rim, there are two or three guys open. He fails to find them most of the time. Also, last thing I will rag on Wigs about: his spin move was his bread and butter in high school and AAU. It doesn't work in college. They all see it coming. Defenders just jump to Wig's left right as he makes the predictable spin and he gets stuck there, having to pass it out or pray for a foul. He needs a couple more moves. I don't know why we don't see at least three or four step-back J's from him per game. and as Suzi has been saying over and over, for the love of basketball, DUNK THE DAMN THING!!!

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

I always want Kansas to get the top players and really hate to say this but will do so late in the blog so ony you would notice. Everyone might have been much better off had Wiggins choice UNC.

Counterfactual History: Had he picked UNC, Roy would have worked his tail off and had MJ as a tutor, constantly. MJ is relentless. UNC would probably undefeated and ranked #1. Kansas would have gone with more shooters in the lineup and probably would have beaten everyone but UF.

Nevertheless, it is what it is, and everyone needs to make the proper adjustments.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

I have never seen Jordan show any desire or interest in being a mentor to anyone. LeBron James is DYING to have Jordan give him input into his game but Jordan won't give him the time of day. He is too consumed trying to be viewed as the best to ever try to help anyone else challenge his legacy.

If that was going to happen then Jordan would have mentored Harrison Barnes and I don't think the two shared more than a handshake while Barnes was at Carolina.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

Perhaps you are right but we'll never know. Even if he had attended UNC and Jordan did mentor him, Wiggins may not have reacted well to MJ's heat, which Wiggines surely would have recieved.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 7 months ago

Sorry, didn't see your Harrison Barnes reference. In that case I agree with you.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 7 months ago

What are you talking about? Roy had the opportunity with Harrison Barnes and MJ was no mentor to Barnes. How did that experiment go? Sure, MJ probably had some conversations, but what good is that going to do? I'm scratching my head at this post.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

I think the assist numbers are misleading. he just isn't the guy that, if he passes, is the last guy to throw the pass that results in a basket. Where he is situated around the perimeter, on the wings, he is rarely the guy that finds himself feeding the bigs in the post. If he cannot drive to the rim his job is to reverse the ball around the perimeter to a guard at the top of the key who feeds the post or continues to move the ball to a shooter in the corner.

I don't think that means his passing ability is poor. that's just not his role. That said, his turnovers, especially the careless ones, need to decrease. He had several careless turnovers last night that were disturbing.

Jim Stauffer 8 years, 7 months ago

Wiggins' problem is he is not hitting the three. When he hits it the driving lanes will become more readily available.

In the meantime, he saw tonight how he can affect a game by driving anyway toward any crease in the defense. When he goes hard he can get the first step on anyone. He needs to keep this up, work on his outside shot and things will begin to happen for him.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 7 months ago

You mean kinda like Selden when he hit some jumpers last night. Completely opened up his driving lanes.

Mike Riches 8 years, 7 months ago

Wow, what a game! We were there, screaming as loud as possible (my apologies to the old lady two rows ahead, who kept turning around to give me dirty looks...) One thing is for sure, the Lloyd Noble Center may have been sold out, but just before tip-off, the place was maybe 25% full and mostly KU fans. It really makes me appreciate how amazing our fanbase is! No wonder AFH is the most intimidating place to play in college basketball!

I know it's easy to criticize Wiggins, and he appears to have gone ice cold on offense and really cooled down on defense, but I don't think it's a lack of motivation. I wonder if what looks like Wiggins being lazy, is really Wiggins trying to be sneaky. In high school, with his length and athleticism, it probably paid dividends to be sneaky, to ease down the court on D, with his arms down. It baited the other team to pass the ball lazily over him where he could steal it, or his man into putting up a shot, and then boom, out of nowhere, Wiggins is there to swat it out of the gym. He averaged 2.5 blocks per game his senior year and almost as many steals. At the college level, however, guys are so much faster, shots are much quicker, and passes are so much sharper. He's still getting a block or a steal here and there, but for the most part, they're shooting (and passing) right over him. It seems to me (as a simple observer, admittedly) that if he would get his hands up, and play tighter D the entire possession, he has the ability to really disrupt the flow of the opposing offense, and he may end up with more blocks and steals. Just a thought...

Chris Shaw 8 years, 7 months ago

6:00 is an early start for a Midwest game. I thought 7:00 eastern time was early, but 6:00 central is even worse.

Gerry Butler 8 years, 7 months ago

nice way to start the big 12 season, have to say was nice to see wayne come out and have the type of game he had, we can sure use that. could tell jo jo's eye was bothering him a bit, looked a little swollen, its good to gt the win, if you can still a road win its big especially when it looks like the conference race is gonna be really tough this year. got to saythe guys shot the ball a lot better, BUT and I know this is kinda on the down side, BUT also on the realistic side and that is yes we did definitely shoot the ball better, offense looked better now this is where the but comes into play and that is Oklahoma didn't actually play stifling tight defense if you watched and or noticed more like kinda matadore defense like they where more interested in scoring theirself then coming down to play defense, so we kinda have to keep our shooting performance in perspective, like jay bilas said last night on connor's 3pt shot he said connor wasn't that wide open in pre game warm ups. but that's ok still feel better over all, not sure how many turnovers we had does anyone know? I know we had enough unforced turnovers though we have GOT to stop that. but on to the next one we got the win looked better rebounded better so good work lets get the next one. GO HAWKS

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

Kansas was able to take whatever they wanted offensively and were only stopped by turnovers here and there. If Kansas could have cut the large number of avoidable, silly fouls they had even in half then KU wins that game very comfortably. Combine the obscene number of free throws that OU made in the first half with the change in how KU players in foul trouble had to guard and those were very costly mistakes that made it a much closer game than it needed to be.

Gerry Butler 8 years, 7 months ago

Hey sorry guys for posting here back to back but getting old and senile but anyways on wiggins, got mixed feelings ya know. not trying to be a sand bagger here for the kid or anything like that but there ARE some things that we need to try and keep in mind, and that is this kid is under so much pressure, he has been hyped up sooooooo much by national, local media, scouts, other players, fans that this kid is in a no win situation. NO WAY would I want that, there is no way he can just go out and be able to enjoy and have fun with the game that he loves. now, is it our fault about the hype he has gotten? not entirely a lot of us are just goin off what we have heard I mean after you hear all the things over, and over, and over then a lot and I mean ALOT of people think this kid that its just not possible for him to make any mistakes. but we have to remember the kid is STILL just an 18 yr old kid, and ya he is goin to be getting a lot of extra attention from other teams, but again he is in a no win situation, if he travels, throws the ball away, doesn't score 20 plus every time out then he is a bust right? over-hyped right? no good right? I mean seriously everytime ku plays all we hear about or espn or whoever leads off with or about is what? WIGGINS, WIGGINS, WIGGINS, here is a news flash ku is more then wiggins national media people. I just feel that the expectations for the kid is just way way ridicilious like they said comparing him to LeBron is just totally unfair, there is only 1 of him, again before you bust my chops again not tryin to be the big homer for him but just things we need to try to remember, I know its easy to crititize I do so myself but lets try myself included just try and be patient. I will say the thing I notice probably alt with him is though just seems pretty emotionless where is the enthusiasm? but see now there I go again its easy to sit back and be criticial but he is a good kid but like announcers were talking on duke how jabari may have hit the freshman wall, I dunno I'm just babbling now so time to cut it off, just hang in there and continue to support him guys he after all he is part of our BELOVED HAWK NATION. GO HAWKS

Tony Bandle 8 years, 7 months ago


1] Caught in a traffic jam due to snow in St.Louis combined with the worst bad weather drivers on the planet [a claim to fame right up there with Ted Drewes Frozen Custard, toasted ravioli and the Cards] so all I can do is agree with most of what's been posted.

2] Did anyone notice that Naadir had a hell of a game?

3] Run and gun style opponents play right into our strong points...the plodders and grinders are what get us.

4] Nice to see Conner, Jamari, Brannen and Tarik get court time.....maybe that 9 player rotation isn't such a bad idea, HCBS?

5] The Wiggins you see now will not be the Wiggins you see in March....that will be "show time" and I think he will explode!!

6] Jo Jo looked positively "Kareem-like" with the goggled look.

7] New board game in Lawrence, KS........."Where In The World Is Andrew White?"

8] HEY ALL...would really love your opinions. When the team hudddles up, Jo Jo towers over 6'-8' and 6'-9' guys. I think he is much taller than 7'-0" but they keep that height just to keep expectations from going wild. Just sayin'.

Rob Bedford III 8 years, 7 months ago

Or maybe the 6'8'- 6'9' guys are really 6'5'- 6'6'

Chris Shaw 8 years, 7 months ago

That is a game that Naadir needs to have...where nobody knows that he did anything good. Actually, i would like a little more less of Naadir and more of Wiggins and Embiid in a game last night.

With that said, Ellis and especially Selden helped shoulder the load off of Wiggins and Embiid and that helped Tharpe kind of go unnoticed, which I think is extremely good.

If Wiggins, Embiid, Ellis, and especially Selden (As a threat) can rotate their success or all have success together in combinations...that is going to help Tharpe out tremendously so he doesn't feel like he has to take over games.

Aaron Paisley 8 years, 7 months ago

Embiid's eyes was definitely affecting his play last night as some of those mistakes he made appeared to because he couldn't see everything as well like he normally does.

Tommy Kueser 8 years, 7 months ago

Great Road win, they desperately needed the confidence boost. These kids need to see that Coach Self is leading them down the right path. Momentum will start to build. I trust in the system. We as fans live and die with every play of the game, but the larger picture is starting to slowly come back into focus. We are a talented group that is beginning to play together as a team and trust in the system. And there will be stumbles along the way, and this site will be full of fans jumping off of building again, but trust in the system. We have the best in college basketball. Future is bright.

Nick Rushton 8 years, 7 months ago

Where are all the posters that said over and over that Selden can't shoot and has a bad shooting stroke?

Chris Shaw 8 years, 7 months ago

Who were the posters that said this team is doomed if Selden can't figure it out and start hitting some outside jumpers and become a threat offensively?

I think your wording is a little off. And...he hasn't shot worth crap till last night. There is a difference between being consistent and streaky.

Regardless of Selden's shooting stroke....if he shows up with that passion, energy, and desire that he exhibited last night....I think people will give a pass on him if he has a bad shooting night. He wasn't shooting the ball and was exhibiting a lack of passion and that is a bad combination. That is why people were calling out Selden prior to last night's game.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

I'll raise both hands as to being a poster that Selden can't shoot. The fact that he makes a a few demonstrates, to me, several practice hours. His mechanics are not great because he has to many moving parts due to taking the ball nearly to the back of his head before releasing. Compare BMac's perfect form to Selden. Alot can go wrong when you introduce needless moving variables.

However, you can make a great argument.using golf's JIm Furyk as an example. Furyk introduces some unneeded moving parts in his golf swing but squares the club head to the ball everytime at impact. Nothing's wrong with Selden's release but if he wants his current J to be a weapon, he needs to work on it alot more than the average Wayne.

Nick Rushton 8 years, 7 months ago

Wouldn't it be nice to have that gorgeous/perfect Bmac stroke on this squad? Love the Furyk argmument. Also, one of the greatest shooters to ever live brought the ball even further back over his head than Selden does....a guy known as Larry Legend. But my favorite argument is: Greatest shot in KU history was hit by a guy that brought the ball over his head. RCJH.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

OMG! I can't even go there about the what If BMac was on this team. My imagination would be out of control .

Larry Legend spent legendary hours perfecting his stroke. But you make an excellent point! Selden is from Boston so it seems reasonable he grew up admiring that stroke. I never made that tie...thanks.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

Just a reminder of how old we are... Wayne Selden wasn't even born until 1999, a full seven years after Larry Legend shot his last NBA shot.

Chris Shaw 8 years, 7 months ago

If that's going behind your head then I don't know what you call Downtown Terry Brown's release. BTW, one of my favorite Kansas teams of all-time.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

Thanks for that post. That was also one of my favorite teams also. I was at that April Fools game in Indy. Brown shot a good percentage. People don't harp on less than perfect form when it is working. It's only when it's not working do people, like me, harp on technique flaws.

God how I wish Roy had won that game or any NC while he was at Kansas. We all loved Roy and still do.

Ben Schwartz 8 years, 7 months ago

On Selden Jr.'s loose ball play -

The attached picture captured immediately after Selden gets up from the floor speaks volumes.

I love Mason, but I'm not sure if he even smiles on his birthday.

I loved Selden roaring after hitting shots. The key thing here is kind of a sentiment I have gotten over several games from both the team's play and Self's comments: The guys aren't all committed 110% to the team. It was only yesterday when T-Rel was slapping the floor with his towel while Rio Adams was chowing on soup. I hate that there is no passion. Self's comments before big games always talk about having fun and playing to enjoy it. You come to Kansas to be part of a program.. so be part of the program.
Be a Releford. Be a Russ Rob. Be a T Rob. Be a D Block. Be a Ty Reed. Be a Sherron Collins. Be one of the Morrii. Traylor wants it. Black wants it. Embiid wants it (scary). Selden has shown flashes of wanting it.
I am a quiet guy so I get it, but pay attention to the game and support your teammates. This is your passion and you are in the most passionate environment for it. Guys who get that make plays. Plays motivate the rest of the team, the coaches, and the crowd. The team, the coaches, and the crowd then motivate guys who make plays. If these guys get on board, we will torch the conference and the post-season.


PS - Cliff Alexander wants it and he isn't even in Lawrence yet. I will gladly help pay for a new backboard if/when he shatters one in AFH next year.

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 7 months ago

now I feel the need to rewatch that play and see if this still image just caught an awkward moment before the real celebration started.

Ben Schwartz 8 years, 7 months ago

I apologize, I should have posted a video clip or .gif but I lacked a quick and easy way of doing it. When you do watch it, let me know what you think. It first caught my eye on the slow-mo replay during the live broadcast, and I even backed it up and showed my brother-in-law.
The offensive set starts around 6:25 left in the second half. The play develops over several seconds starting from the first tip/fumble. During the time span where Perry hits the floor, Embiid hits the floor, and ultimately Selden hits the floor and calls timeout, You can clearly see a large portion of the guys not even paying attention to the court. I would say it is 5 seconds from when Perry hits the floor until the point I took the snapshot. Wiggins was sitting on the immediate left of Greene and looked pretty stoic for the majority of the play as well, but got a pass as he was standing up behind where Selden is blocking the view. Maybe I had my overly-critical fan goggles on, but I tried to give them as much time as I could before the replay ended to take the snapshot.

Rob Byrd 8 years, 7 months ago

Benz, your math is off a little. While it might be true that we are "old", and Wayne is young, he's not THAT young! :-)

Commenting has been disabled for this item.