Thursday, April 11, 2013

NBA scout: Ben McLemore top-2 pick

Kansas guard Ben McLemore and Andrea Hudy, assistant athletic director for sport performance watch the Colorado State and Louisville game as McLemore is stretched in the locker room before the team's practice, Saturday, March 23, 2013 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.

Kansas guard Ben McLemore and Andrea Hudy, assistant athletic director for sport performance watch the Colorado State and Louisville game as McLemore is stretched in the locker room before the team's practice, Saturday, March 23, 2013 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.



Kansas guard Ben McLemore and Andrea Hudy, assistant athletic director for sport performance watch the Colorado State and Louisville game as McLemore is stretched in the locker room before the team's practice, Saturday, March 23, 2013 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.

A lot can, and will, change between now and June 27, the date of the 2013 NBA Draft.

But as of today — well before the NBA combine and prospects’ trips to team camps for individual workouts — things are looking up for 20-year-old millionaire-to-be Ben McLemore.

“McLemore and (Nerlens) Noel (6-11 freshman, Kentucky) will go 1-2 in the draft. Noel will probably be the No. 1 pick despite his injury,” an NBA talent evaluator who cannot reveal his identity (in accordance with NBA rules) told the Journal-World.

Noel is recovering from a torn ACL, while the 6-foot-5 McLemore is healthy.

“McLemore is a better version of Ray Allen. He will play shooting guard the way it is supposed to be played,” the talent evaluator said. “The only negative to his game is sometimes he defers. He could definitely use another year in college to learn to take over games.

“Obviously, he had to go (pro),” the scout quickly added. “The draft is only about potential now.”

This unnamed NBA official said this year’s No. 1 draft pick would be Huntington (W. Va.) Prep senior Andrew Wiggins if players were allowed to head directly from high school to the pros. The 6-foot-7, 190-pound Wiggins has a final list of KU, Kentucky, Florida State and North Carolina.

“I’ve heard 20 teams say they’d take him right now and start him,” the talent evaluator said.

Here’s his view of KU’s other possible draft picks at this early date:

• Jeff Withey: “He will go between 25-30 (in first round). He’d be the tail end of the lottery (top 14) to No. 20 if he could finish around the basket. He’s so good defensively, he will be a first-round pick.”

• Travis Releford: “He is rated higher than (Elijah) Johnson. We think he can defend (at NBA level). I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes in the 40 range (second round). He’s tough. I love his game.”

• Johnson: “He came on strong late in the year. There’s been some question about how healthy he is. That should be addressed during the 1-on-1 workouts. He’s got a chance to go late second round. Personally, I don’t think he has a position. He will get a chance in summer league if he’s not drafted.”

• Kevin Young: “He will not get drafted. He’ll be a good guy to get in a camp this summer. He is going to make a lot of money playing overseas.”

Of future KU guard Wayne Selden, a 6-5 guard from Tilton (N.H.) School, the evaluator said: “I like his game a lot. He’s a big guard who can shoot. He will be in college two to three years.”

Memphis player on market: Memphis forward Tarik Black says he will graduate this semester, then transfer to another school for a final year of basketball. Jeff Goodman of says he’s drawing interest from KU, Duke, Marquette, Miami, Tennessee, Florida State, UMass and 20 others. Black, 6-9, 260 from Memphis, will be immediately eligible at his future school. He averaged 8.1 points and 4.8 rebounds while logging 20.8 minutes a game for Memphis last season.

No announcement on tap: Wiggins, who is ranked No. 1 in the country by, likely will not announce his college choice at Saturday’s Jordan Brand Classic, his high school coach, Rob Fulford, told the Lexington Herald-Leader. Fulford said Wiggins would announce sometime before the end of the spring signing period (April 17-May 15). KU signees Selden and Joel Embiid will compete in the Classic, set for an 7 p.m. tipoff on ESPN2.


Larry Smith 9 years, 8 months ago

Easy top 5 pick. For those of you who says he is not ready....You are Cray

nuleafjhawk 9 years, 7 months ago

Get with it jayhawkinnc - that " z " adds an extra syllable. Way too much energy to expend (whoops - 'pend) at 1 in the morning (morn).

Aligned 9 years, 7 months ago

Good point. When I was trying to lose weight, the first thing I did was stop using contractions. I found that at the end of the day I had burned an extra 2 calories by vocalizing the extra syllables.

Adam Evans 9 years, 7 months ago

Cray is a new term actually. An abbreviated version of crazy. Not sarcasm. I used to think it was just people being weird, but most everyone out here uses it now. Kinda cray lol

David Leathers 9 years, 7 months ago

Here is a little trivia for you people who think "Cray" means crazy:

For one, it's actually spelled "Kray".

Kanye West rapped in one of his songs: "“ball so hard, muthafkas wanna find me, that sht Kray. That sht Kray. That sh*t Kray”.

He was referring to two schizophrenic twin brothers Ronald and Reginald Kray who were crime lords in London back in the 50's and 60's. They were hard to capture, therefore the reference in the song.

Please stop using "Kray" for an abbreviated form of "crazy". It just makes you look stupid.

Ryan Woods 9 years, 7 months ago

Kanye's CD Booklet has all the lyrics in it. In the booklet it shows "crazy." Stop believing everything you see on the internet. It makes you look stupid.

Do some research before you make dumb statements over a light hearted subject.

Do some research before you make dumb statements over a light hearted subject. by Ryan Woods

David Leathers 9 years, 7 months ago

tucks tail between legs and runs to hide under the bed

You got me!

Jabez Harlan 9 years, 7 months ago

The first definition is "crazy". Your explanation appears second in the Urban Dictionary.

Jeffrey Nelson 9 years, 7 months ago

Too bad when I went to the Watch The Throne show they blasted the words "That sh*t Cray" on the big screen when they performed the song like 6 times in a row.

globehead 9 years, 7 months ago

? Anyone worrying about what Kanye West means by "Kray" is already looks stupid.

Steve Gantz 9 years, 7 months ago

So Scooter McCray's name was really Scooter McCrazy?

Sam Constance 9 years, 7 months ago

"“I’ve heard 20 teams say they’d take him right now and start him,” the talent evaluator said. [about Wiggins]

Proof that NBA talent evaluators are barely a step above drunken idiots at a roulette table. I'm sure Wiggins is an outstanding athlete, but give me a break.

Almost as stupid is the idea of taking a toothpick of a freshman who had almost zero offensive ability and happens to be coming of major injury/surgery.

It's like Apple (or some other tech giant) hiring a freshman because he/she got straight A's in his first year of getting a computer science degree.

KULA 9 years, 7 months ago

Don't think a high school kid could start for an NBA team? Ever heard of LeBron James or Kobe Bryant?

April13 9 years, 7 months ago

So you are saying he's next LeBron or Kobe? There have been a few stars that came right out of high school. Far more failures, though.

dylans 9 years, 7 months ago

The comparisons of LBJ and Wiggins are happening, not by me, but by some in the media.

Ryan Woods 9 years, 7 months ago

and there were comparisons of Jordan and Kwame Brown......

Joe Joseph 9 years, 7 months ago

Kobe didn't start right out of high school.

texashawk10 9 years, 7 months ago

Kobe didn't become a starter until the end of his rookie year. Very few HS kids had a significant impact on their teams as rookies. The only ones I can think of are LeBron, Amare, and Howard. 99.9% HS kids are not physically ready for the NBA.

dylans 9 years, 7 months ago

Garnett too, but what happened to DeShawn Stephens? I still wish he would have shown up at KU instead of going straight pro.

texashawk10 9 years, 7 months ago

Garnett was not an impact player as a rookie unless 10 points and 6 rebounds coming off the bench for half the season is considered impact. I'm not saying that's a bad rookie season because it's not, but that's hardly an immediate impact either.

Steve Gantz 9 years, 7 months ago

I think he was charged with rape not long after leaving KU, maybe he wouldn't have been around very long anyways.

Matthew Pyle 9 years, 7 months ago

moses Malone, kevin garnett.... still, way more busts to below average than not. Not even close; same can probably be said for college players who leave early.

Michael Luby 9 years, 7 months ago

Noel isn't even remotely in the same class as Lebron or Kobe. Anthony Davis isn't either.

Steve Gantz 9 years, 7 months ago

He could be a hall of famer some day. Don't forget, he's the equivalent of a sophomore in college. Plus he plays a different position than the other two with a completely different skill set so it's hard to compare them.

KULA 9 years, 7 months ago

If 20 NBA talent evaluators say he could start for them right now, then yeah, he's that good.

Sam Constance 9 years, 7 months ago

Yeah, I've seen his "game". Against high school kids. And maybe he is better than anyone in the last three recruiting classes, although I tend to think that is the kind of statement that you can't possibly ACTUALLY know to be true, but whatever.

The point is that in MOST cases, taking a kid who has never played a lick of basketball at a level higher than high school/prep school on the basis that he's a sure thing is part of the reason why the NBA had to self-impose the ridiculous age limit. To keep their drunk talent evaluators from thinking every kid who dominated at the pre-college level with an NBA-ready body was the next Lebron James.

The reality of the situation is that the Lebron James' of the world are extraordinarily rare. You can count the players who have come right out of high school and become team-anchoring superstars on less than two hands, and that's in the context of a league that has around 450 active roster players in the league each season. That's 2.2% (less if you take the number of straight-from-high-school superstars as a subset of ALL the NBA players over the last 20 years, not just the number of active players in a single season).

The problem is a combination of valuing the exciting and flashy "mystery prize" over the known quantity that is really good, but has less of the flash because a larger sample of games will almost always result in the hype coming back to Earth. Wiggins would be the sure-thing pick in this year's draft because he hasn't played a 30-40 game season where he puts up 8 points and 5 rebounds against some mid-major team that shouldn't have any realistic chance of guarding a player like him. It's those kind of games that bring a player's stock back down to reasonable levels.

If you had asked scouts about Anthony Davis coming out of high school, I bet they would have said the same thing. And while he's been really good in the pros, he is not the second coming of Lebron James. Neither is Wiggins.

texashawk10 9 years, 7 months ago

LeBron James has a PF's body with a PG's skill set. Andrew Wiggins has the build of a SG/SF tweener and the game of a SF. I can pretty well tell you that Andrew Wiggins is not the second coming of LeBron.

Sam Constance 9 years, 7 months ago

Well, yeah. But that's sort of missing the point.

KULA 9 years, 7 months ago

Hmmm, I seemed to have missed the part where the NBA scouts said Wiggins is the second coming of LeBron James. All I heard them say is "he could start for us."

And yeah, maybe they did say the same thing about Anthony Davis. And they were right.

Sam Constance 9 years, 7 months ago

1) If they did say the same about Anthony Davis, they were wrong. There is no way the Anthony Davis from high school could have been starting in the NBA, although I'm sure some team would have drafted him #1 if he had been eligible. He needed that first year to bulk up and to develop his offensive game to more than "layup at the rim after one of the guards broke down the defense". By the end of the year, he was much more capable offensively. Plus, I doubt that Anthony Davis would start for 20 different teams. Part of the reason he starts is because he plays for the terrible NO Hornets. Who else is going to start? Louis Amundsen? Ryan Anderson?

2) Whether or not Wiggins is the next Lebron James isn't exactly the point. The point is the way in which he's being talked about as the no-doubt, surefire #1 overall pick, and that kind of hype should only be reserved for players that have a reasonable chance of being the next Lebron James. That's part of my issue--the way in which each year, the most hyped player is penciled in as that year's franchise changer.

3) I again will say that I doubt that Wiggins--who plays a position that is probably the most talent-rich position in the NBA (wing)--would actually start for 20 different teams.

JakeBarnes 9 years, 7 months ago

Regarding "an NBA talent evaluator who cannot reveal his identity." I wouldn't either if I had his opinions. A player recovering from an ACL operation is going number one!! Danny Manning was a natural for superstar in the NBA until his ACL disaster. Many excellent players have lost some mobility, moves to this dreaded injury.

McLemore a better version of Ray Allen. Yikes!! Don't you think we ought to see how he fits with his team before jumping to this conclusion.

This "unidentified" evaluator does note that the NBA drafts on the come, potential. Really weird. Teams must waste a lot of money this way.

About the only thing that "unidentified" says that makes sense is that Ben should have waited another year to prove he can take over a game. Of course, money rules. Always has, always will.

Benz Junque 9 years, 7 months ago

I am fairly certain that surgical skills, procedures and recovery processes have evolved A BIT in the almost 25 years it has been since Manning's first ACL surgery.

ku_foaf 9 years, 7 months ago

Said evaluator is probably a KU bb alum.

LAJayhawk 9 years, 7 months ago

Adrian Peterson did alright after tearing his ACL.

BeckP 9 years, 7 months ago

I'm assuming you're drunk or stupid. Or both! It's "coming OFF major injury/surgery".

Michael Sillman 9 years, 7 months ago

As the NBA scout said, McLemore has to go now to be an overnight millionaire. Only time will tell us if he went too early to truly make his mark at the next level.

I am a bit surprised that a tweener with questionable ball handling skills will be the number 2 pick. But then I've never really understood the NBA.

Regardless I wish McLemore all the good fortune in the world. He seems like a great kid.

April13 9 years, 7 months ago

One thing that many, many, many people forget is that Paul Pierce did not have exceptional ball handling skills at KU. Lots of mishandles, lots of errant passes - whenever he got the ball on a break, it was cringe time.

The scout's comparison to Allen is a good one but I think Ben is more athletic. He's got lots of upside and I believe his ball handling will improve.

LAJayhawk 9 years, 7 months ago

He can shoot as well as Allen, and will likely be a slightly better rebounder.

Ted Hume 9 years, 7 months ago

good one Jaylark!

"tweener"? that would be funny if were serious. BMac it the absolute prototype for a starting NBA 2-guard. If you looked up a definition of the position in the dictionary, a picture of BMac would be there, along with his physical description. And let's just say it again: "he's the most talented kid I've ever been around- and it's not even close really" -B.S., basketball coach of some sort.

Adam Evans 9 years, 7 months ago

Tweener? Are you smoking? 6'5", with his build, is the stereotypical nba 2 guard. A tweener is someone between positions like a 6'7" PF with limited range. Bmac is the farthest thing from a tweener in the draft besides maybe Withey. Is he ready? Nope. Rarely is a freshman or hs senior ready. But he'll be a star once he adjusts.

Troll_or_AntiTroll 9 years, 7 months ago

So, is he the prototypical 2 or the stereotypical 2? I had always thought of him as the epitome of a 2.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 7 months ago

A LOT of 2's in the NBA don't do that much ballhandling anyway.

Michael Pannacciulli 9 years, 7 months ago

Interesting how the scout doubts EJ's health...I don't see him getting drafted. He too could make great money overseas.

Also, I don't know how Wiggins is holding out...the questions he must get on a regular basis and the non-stop recruiting must be exhausting. I fully expect he picks FSU. Kensucky a close second.

TommieSmithElbow 9 years, 7 months ago

"It would be like when Carmelo Anthony beat KU (best team that year) by himself."

Right. The 6 treys by McNamara, KU's missed free throws, and the Warrick block were all on Carmelo. A better example would be that Danny was a more dominant force to his team in 1988 than Carmelo was in 2003. At the same time, neither one beat anybody BY HIMSELF.

April13 9 years, 7 months ago

I think he likes the attention. Just like a school girl deciding between her prom date requests.

Brad Avery 9 years, 7 months ago

Ben also needs to mature physically and learn to play better defense. Frankly, it's hard to envision either Noel or McClemore as the two top picks, but it is what it is.

nuleafjhawk 9 years, 7 months ago

One of these days, I'd like to see something that is what it isn't.

bad_dog 9 years, 7 months ago

Stay away from the brown acid, man... Bad trip.

tis4tim 9 years, 7 months ago


Some things that are what they aren't:

  1. Mercury
  2. Romy Haag
  3. I Can't Believe It's Not Butter

Now you can cross another thing off your bucket list!

REHawk 9 years, 7 months ago

nuleaf, a week ago the Jayhawk Nation actually did get a shocking glimpse of a scene which fits the label of what Is what it Isn't: an Elite 8 win by 7 KU players which got erased by lategame subtraction by addition. And subtraction by nonaction.

jayhawkinATL 9 years, 7 months ago

I believe the only reason BMac doesn't go #1 is the fact that the Bobcats need more help in the post (i.e., Nerlens).

texashawk10 9 years, 7 months ago

The team with the worst record doesn't get the #1 pick very often (less than the numbers say they should) so Charlotte probably won't end up with the #1 pick and I'm fine with that. To me, Detroit and Phoenix are the two best fits for McLemore and I hope he ends up on either one of those teams.

Adam Tyler 9 years, 7 months ago

I hope he can land with the Minnesota Timberwolves.

They do not have the worst record in the NBA, but they will definitely have good odds of capturing a Top 3 pick.

Rubio and KLove are an already established foundation, but the addition of McLemore would be incredible going forward. They need a scorer with star-power. Rubio's wizardry with the rock will certainly benefit McLemore, as he will most likely be a three-point gunner, who can also attack on occasion.

I really just want McLemore to avoid the Bobcats, Raptors, and Kings. All of them have proven to be incompetent franchises who have no desire to win.

I would be ecstatic if he landed with the Cavaliers, 76ers, Jazz, Mavericks, Blazers, Suns or Timberwolves. That is 7 of the 14 teams eligible for the draft lottery. Those are good odds, but only time will tell if they will have the chance to draft McLemore.

Steve Gantz 9 years, 7 months ago

Isn't the ping pong ball lottery thing still in effect? So you don't know the Bobcats will have the first pick or whatever pick. The Bulls had like a 1 in 100 chance of winning the Derrick Rose lottery, but did.

Beate Williams 9 years, 7 months ago

When Paul left his ball-handling was not a handicap; that was a first year problem.

dylans 9 years, 7 months ago

That's the way I remember it, but Paul did average nearly three turnovers per game all three years at KU.

Robert Brock 9 years, 7 months ago

LOL at the NBA. I remember a time when the NBA only selected seasoned, proven veteran players at the lottery level. Since they have fleeced college ball entirely, they are down to drafting the most untested players imaginable based on their potential upside - which is really a wild reach in many cases. It is only going to get worse. And college ball is so barren of talent that it is getting rough to watch. The game is soiled.

hawksince51 9 years, 7 months ago

Pierce played 3 years at KU, plenty of time to show more than just potential. And he has been the most successful KU player in the pros in a long time, maybe moreso than Manning due to Danny's injuries. I agree to some degree with Brock that the NBA has fleeced college ball with the OAD rule. I also think they have needlessly thrown a lot of money at players who never earned it. Wright comes to mind, and Selby looks like he will follow. But, I really do not have much doubt that Ben will do well in the NBA, but probably not until he develops better ball-handling skills and improves his D. Sure I would prefer he did that at KU by staying another year or two but that is not how the system works today. Good luck Ben. It has fun watching you this year.

texashawk10 9 years, 7 months ago

The OAD rule is not the what's hurting college basketball the most. Can the NBA tweak the rule to make better? Absolutely and many people, including myself, would be in favor of the NBA adopting a rule closer to what MLB has. To me, there are 3 main issues with basketball today.

My first issue is with AAU basketball because high level AAU basketball is glorified scrimmaging.

My second issue is with LeBron James and to a less extent Kevin Garnett. In the 2 or 3 years after LeBron declared for the draft, there was just about the same number of HS kids going in the NBA draft as there was in the 8 years before LeBron entered the draft. KG gets an honorable mention because he's the one who started the trend there are very few kids who are both physically and emotionally ready for the NBA straight out of HS.

My third issue is with ESPN and is directly tied to LeBron because that's when ESPN really started hyping HS athletes and showing a significant amount of HS sports and making national superstars out of kids who aren't ready for the spot light and making a lot of HS kids think they are better than they really are.

The second issue has been somewhat taken care of by the OAD rule, but the first and third issues are something that I don't ever see changing and really only getting worse.

Steve Gantz 9 years, 7 months ago

I have a lot of issues with ESPN, one of which you mentioned.

bradynsdad 9 years, 7 months ago

I believe the only reason Wiggjns is waiting is because he wants to go to UK and his parents want him to go to FSU. His parents are probably trying to convince him that he won't be able to shine as much at UK. Personally until UK starts playing and winning games I think people need to calm down. I saw an ESPN article that said if Wiggins goes to UK then the NCAA should cancel the season and give Kentucky the trophy. Ridiculous. I watched an interview of Brannen Greene yesterday and I will take this kid over a one and done any day. He plans on being at KU a couple years and he is truly a very smart and nice young man. I think Self is 100% right in saying next years recruiting class is very underrated!

Andy Godwin 9 years, 7 months ago

With the commitment of Dominique Hawkins (Mr. Kentucky basketball, but only a three star recruit) Kentucky now has 8 in their recruiting class (5 have signed letters of intent) for next year. From their team last year, two have declared for the NBA, one was forced to transfer, ala Anrio, and two are seniors. They are currently 3 over their allotment without Wiggins, unless more transfer or their scholarships are pulled based on availability, are walk ons, or have additional finances, similar to Justin Wesley's situation with KU (he is awarded a scholarship when one is available). Wiggins indicate several times that he looks forward to playing against Jabari Parker (ESPN's #2 rated player going to Duke) in college and in the pros. That will occur must often if he plays at an ACC school (FSU or UNC). Interestingly KU plays Duke at the beginning of the 2013-2014 season as part of the Championship Classic. Self has indicated he is still recruiting and hopes to land an immediate impact player or two. Not many of those left unless there are some de-commitments from players who have yet to sign a binding letter of intent or an under the radar star JUCO player. Clearly the enthusiasm for next year should be tempered given only 4 players returning have played any meaningful minutes (Tharpe, Ellis, Traylor, and White). KU's schedule early on is likely to be brutal. Hopefully the freshman, including Lucas don't take as long to develop as Ellis, or it could be ugly. In Self we trust. Hopefully he has something up his sleeve to bring in additional players with some level of experience.

JayHawkFanToo 9 years, 7 months ago

Kentucky is only 1 over, not counting Wiggins. The enclosed chart gives you the picture, although it is hard to read...
You can also see KU's scholarship situation in the same site.

rockchalkchalkin23 9 years, 7 months ago

"I'm so sick of coaches telling me that they got nobody on the bench. You know what, yeah you do. You got 4 or 5 guys on the bench, but you're to chicken to play em, because these other 5 guys or 6 guys are better than they are, and you don't wanna give them an opportunity to get in the game." Bruce Pearl Monday on 'The Herd'

otaKU 9 years, 7 months ago

Let me get this straight - Withey would be in the tail end of the lottery if he was better offensively, but Noel is the top #1 pick even though he's not that great offensviely either?

I'm not saying Withey should be the #1 pick my argument would be then why Noel?

In other news, I would be interested to see if Tarik Black comes to KU. I had heard that he is pretty high on KU (nothing credible--just some friends I've talked to in the Memphis area).

texashawk10 9 years, 7 months ago

Because Noel is freshman and Withey is a 5th year senior. Very flawed, but that's the reality. Good thing for Withey though is that he should end up on a pretty good team with a chance to compete for ring very soon.

Ted Hume 9 years, 7 months ago

exactly. You would need to compare Freshman Withey to Freshman Noel, and then Senior Noel to Senior Withey? That's the difficult evaluation that needs to, and is impossible to, carry out.

Michael Luby 9 years, 7 months ago

We all knew that Ben was going to the NBA, Withey too for that matter. Im just glad that Travis is getting some recognition. It was also very nice to hear what he said about Kevin Young. Way to go fellas! RCJHGOKU! Could we use Tarik next season? Hell yes we could. If he can defend his position good enough to meet Coachs high standards then he would start. How could you not start a 5th year big like him? Especially since we will be so incredibly young next season.

tis4tim 9 years, 7 months ago

Agree with you on Travis. If he decides to play to his strength and carves out a niche as a defensive stopper, and works to be the best at it, he could have a long NBA career ala Bruce Bowen. The fact that he also has an offensive game and is a likeable guy makes him even more valuable, IMO.

Ted Hume 9 years, 7 months ago

I agree that Travis will make a [perhaps modest] career in the NBA. He is physical/athletic enough, has enough fundamental skills offensively and, most importantly, is an absolute beast stamina- and defensive-wise: he can play full speed all day long (as coach has pointed out). I think he could get into the tail end of the draft, or more likely get a contract after camp invites.

Scott Smetana 9 years, 7 months ago

I just don't understand why the NBA would want to pay millions to take a chance on a 'potential, developing star'. Most early entries hardly play. The NBA wins by having them develop in college for FREE. Us NCAA fans benefit also. The minimum age should be 21!

KemDooKU 9 years, 7 months ago

I got nothing to say at this point in time - maybe I will have something on the next article!

Alex Resnik 9 years, 7 months ago

I honestly think that Kentucky is not in Wiggins' thought process. (mostly because I detest what the Cheater has done to the college game) and because I think he is deciding between KU and FSU. If Wiggins wants national exposure, ability to shine and the ability to win a championship he will come to KU. Honestly I think it makes the most sense (I know I have not posted too many times on here, but I usually think more level headed than this). If he goes to FSU then he risks losing all of the national attention that the non-con, conference, and a deep run into the tourney brings. If he goes to FSU all of that becomes in doubt. The only time I have seen FSU on TV is when they play NC or Duke. So that's a guaranteed 4 games nationally a year. If he goes to KU there are probably only 6 games all year that will not be picked up nationally (I live in Michigan and thank God everyday that KU is a national program because if not I wouldn't be able to watch) Ok.. I rambled on long enough.. here's some cliff-notes.

He is not thinking of Kentucky If he goes to FSU he risks losing out on a deep run in the tourny and nationally televised games If he goes to KU, he turns us into instant title contenders. Only 4-6 games will not be nationally televised.

WETSUhawk 9 years, 7 months ago

I like your thinking, but will add, if he picks KU then those 4-6 games that would not be televised without him, probably would be televised nationally. That being said, FSU would probably double or triple their national exposure.

REHawk 9 years, 7 months ago

A Black/Wiggins signing probably would make for a daily double recruiting hit either at KU or FSU. If true that Wiggins' parents are pushing hard for their alma mater, Leonard Hamilton is probably scrambling to enhance his accompanying stable of support players.

jay381 9 years, 7 months ago

I posted below on Black. There is a lot more than just athletic ability to consider.

REHawk 9 years, 7 months ago

Thanks for the input, jay381. Your info does not bode well for that "recruit."

741hawk 9 years, 7 months ago

Where do Wiggins' parents live? (Could be a factor)

Jason Sinclair 9 years, 7 months ago

Would have liked to have heard his thoughts on P Ellis. In my opinion, he is the perfect college recruit/player, because although he has elite skills for a PF, he has - for the NBA - a SF's body. He'll play in the NBA, but will stick around longer than he would've if he was a few inches taller (or significantly more explosive).

jay381 9 years, 7 months ago

Tarik Black is not someone I would think we want at KU. Living in Memphis I have been aware of the soap opera that is Tarik Black for the past few years (hard to read the paper and not be aware of this kid) and it is not good. He has created turmoil at a practice by walking out on the staff in a tiff. He is only a 59.1% free throw shooter. Has been suspended from games by the coaching staff for problems. He is more likely to get a foul than a rebound. It is too bad because coming out of HS he was a top 50 recruit and somewhat of a local hero that many thought would lead the team back to the Calipari successes. That has not happened despite his obvious physical abilities. Unfortunately he is a product of the Memphis Public School System where there is little possibility of personal development and an attitude of athletic entitlement. Self is a master at reclamation projects (learning from the old master of project rebuilding Eddie Sutton) involving transfers however; I would sure be very apprehensive about this athlete because of attitude not athletic abilities. Frankly most of the sports reporters and by implication the coaches were frankly glad to see the cancer that is Black go elsewhere. Coach Pastner in an uncharacteristic manner of sarcasm (no fan of Memphis but Pastner is a good guy) when ask where he might transfer gave a look and responded I have no idea that indicated what he wanted to say was I could care less as long as he is gone. One of the things I have appreciated most is the team cohesion Self has achieved with his teams. Based on his actions here Tarik Black would not know the meaning of team cohesion.

texashawk10 9 years, 7 months ago

I would not be in favor of bringing Tarik Black into KU next year. His production has gone down every year and I've read that his work ethic is not the best in the world and on a team without much in the way of senior leadership, that's not the type of player KU should bring in with the amount of youth KU is going to have next year without much in the way of leadership. If next year's team had the experience of last seasons team, then I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of bringing Black in for depth, but I just don't see it being a good fit next season.

jaybate 9 years, 7 months ago

Thx for the local angle on TB; that's one of the great aspects of this web site. KU nation is everywhere.

texashawk10 9 years, 7 months ago

Saw this on Facebook and this pretty much sums up what's wrong with basketball today.

This is by far the most delusional and funny story of the day:

Kentucky-bound recruits Dakari Johnson and Andrew Harrison said that they'd beat MICHAEL "HIS AIRNESS" JORDAN in a 1-on-1 game in his PRIME.

Said Johnson: "I’m taking him to the post every time. He’d stop me a couple of times, but I’d just keep going back down there. I’d just contest his jump shots and pray that he’d miss. I think in the end, I’d get him though. I’m too big down there."

Said Harrison: "I think he’d get a couple buckets here and there, but then I’d start to lock him down and give him buckets. Yeah, I think I’d get him."

A couple buckets here and there?! Seriously?!

Johnson is an elite center and Harrison is the nation's most coveted point guard, but the idea they'd get more than a bucket or two off early-90s MJ is laughable. After all, 50-year-old MJ reportedly had his way with Michael Kidd-Gilchrist recently, and I'd take my chances with Kidd-Gilchrist against either Johnson or Harrison in a game of one-on-one right now.

Some of these kids arrogance, ignorance and stupidity is beyond me.

Ludwig Supraphonic 9 years, 7 months ago

Chant with me: NIT...SEC...NIT...SEC...NIT....SEC...OAD...No Degree...Kal-par-eeeeeeeeee...CIT.

REHawk 9 years, 7 months ago

Tiger, Tiger, SEC...Mizzoo, Mizzoo, just look at me!

Jack Wilson 9 years, 7 months ago

Hornhawk: How do you make "national champions" rhyme with your little chant?

I'm guessing you'd take the 2012 title, and give up the 2012-13 Big 12 title and NCAA berth in an even exchange.

Ludwig Supraphonic 9 years, 7 months ago

Chant should start with NC...and you're right about trading titles.

yellowjeep 9 years, 7 months ago

Not disagreeing with you at all about the attitudes some of these recruits but I imagine that an 18-19yo MJ would have say the exact same thing. If you look at the top players in any sport you find that being humble is the exception rather than the rule. You have to have a certain amount of cockiness or swag to be at that level. I personal think current day MJ would destroy any of these kids; but just to provide a counter point. Here is a video of MJ going 1 on 1 with a 45yo CEO.

Tim Orel 9 years, 7 months ago

Fun video. I think if MJ had someone taunting him, as these kids are, he would so utterly school them that they and all YouTube viewers would get the message - there's a reason he's MJ. This CEO, on the other hand, didn't cause Michael to break a sweat.

KansasComet 9 years, 7 months ago

I am really looking forward to next season. No doubt that we were a Final Four Team, it just didn't work out this year. Can't wait to see 3 point shooting next year!

Steve Gantz 9 years, 7 months ago

Someone else alluded to this but I get tired of the 'he's better than Ray Allan' type statements that are made about these kids. I hope he is because Allan's a potential HOFer. We've all commented on the dearly departed Rio "reminds me of DWade' comment made by his old coach.

Danny Manning was the next Magic Johnson I remember people saying, and he was (without the flashiness) until the knee turned him into just the next well any number of players.

I don't recall all of the other 'next' so and so statements we've heard through the years on our players, but we haven't put out a whole lot of next anyone's at KU, just a lot of kids who are very good ball players at this level and generally competent ones at the next.

Sam Constance 9 years, 7 months ago


Jesus Shuttlesworth is a sure-fire HOFer.

Steve Gantz 9 years, 7 months ago

Not sure if I'm following you, you're saying allan isn't? Or is? I really don't follow the NBA closely enough to know for sure.

Sam Constance 9 years, 7 months ago

No, I was saying he's so much a HOFer that you don't need to say he's a "potential" HOFer.

Sorry for the confusion

Ron Franklin 9 years, 7 months ago

The "Experts" are split between FSU and KU for Wiggins.

So you know what that means? He's headed to UK!!

I don't believe Wiggins really wants to play defense as he would have to for Self or Hamilton.

jay381 9 years, 7 months ago

The only thing I have read was from his brother who plays for WSU. His brother said quite clearly that going to KY would not be in his brothers best interest. I totally agree. His brother did say there were ties to FSU as both parents played there. However, he also said they would not insist he attend FSU. Based on what I saw with Leonard when he was at Okie State he did nothing to develop the talent he recruited.

I realize I am not objective but if the young man is a little reserved as I have read (as is McLemore) and he wants to develop both physically and as a player there is no school that has the combination of Self, his staff and physically Hudy is in a class by herself. I will say no school on the list will develop him or better prepare him for the next level than KU.

jaybate 9 years, 7 months ago


That's a terrific piece of interpretation of what the older Wiggins said. I read the same thing and did not unsnag it. But what you say was clearly what he was shaping between the lines.

KemDooKU 9 years, 7 months ago

Three of the top players last year are returning to Kentucky along with six highly rated McDonald All Americans. If Wiggins does go to Kentucky then I hope he gets a seat cushion because those benches hurt the rump when your sitting on them for a long period of time- even if he is a stud he can't expect more than 15 minutes a game because there are to many others expecting to get major minutes - after awhile it gets to be ridiculous with that many OAD players - I think it shows that he can't coach unless he has six NBA 1st rounders - how pathetic to not make the tourney with that much talent last year -

Ted Hume 9 years, 7 months ago

The problem with thinking this way is that it doesn't matter to Wiggins if the roster is made up of 12 McD all-american, 5-star recruits, if you're better than any one of them- especially at your position- which Wiggins clearly is. So if he does go to UK, he still gets all the minutes he wants, basically, and it's a tough break for the next-best 5-star at his position, who gets pushed to the bench. That's why UK is still the overwhelming favorite to land him; and yes, it does suck

Jack Wilson 9 years, 7 months ago

I have to ask, what makes anyone think that Wiggins is coming to KU other than the "I wish it were true" factor? And remember, logic doesn't play when analyzing this stuff. More than any other topic discussed here in quite a while, this is the most speculative.

Logic said Randle should have come to KU. Big, big miss.

Even trying to think this through logically, I don't see it with Wiggins. Seems many more factors weighing against us on Wiggins than some of our other top 10 misses. But that is wild speculation too.

I'm pretty sure that no one even remotely has an idea what this kid is going to do.

Robin Smith 9 years, 7 months ago

one of the ESPN recruiting analysts was told by an opposing schools coach that Self was the coach he felt the most comfortable with and when he spoke of his time in Lawrence there had been a meal at Self's and he said something to the effect of getting along with the players

I don't feel great about how long it's taking him to decide, because it seems to me that if he wanted to go to KU he could do that now. It was thrown around that he was going to decide on the final day of the signing period, which makes me think he's waiting to see if the rest of the UK class actually ends up signing -- as in he wants to make sure it's the Dream Team he thinks it could be, whereas if he commits now, he may inspire someone to second guess their decision to sit on the bench behind him. The NBA's early-entry deadline for the draft is April 28. Per NCAA mandate, however, players with remaining eligibility must withdraw from the draft by Tuesday (April 16) to preserve it. So if he's waiting to see if JMM and PJ Hairston return to UNC then he won't have to wait an additional two weeks into May.

long story short, I think signs indicate he is either A) really torn over going to FSU or elsewhere, or B) holding out for UK. If it's A, then I think we are a coin toss with UNC

Robin Smith 9 years, 7 months ago

OH and I'd say that Randle, even though we had such a lead on him, seems to like the stardom a lot more than Wiggins, so it's not that surprising he chose UK and I don't think it logically affects how we view our chances with Wiggins.

Additionally, another point in favor of our chances is that for the bulk of his recruitment is was only FSU or UK and then he said KU and UNC, which makes me think that KU and UNC have a legit chance... Unless Calipari has gotten him to publicly humiliate us intentionally

Let's hope Wiggins enjoys playing with Selden again and with JOJO at the Jordan Brand Classic.

Tangentially, I've noticed that Calipari seems to mostly compete with Self, Donovan, Izzo, Pitino, Boeheim, and Miller for recruits. There are few if any instances in which he contests K and Roy, and they both largely get all of the guys they target... not sure what to make of this

WETSUhawk 9 years, 7 months ago

I agree with your assessment. Waiting 'till after playing in the Jordan Classic may very well improve KU's chances (fingers crossed).

Alex Peekeaton 9 years, 7 months ago

Not sure why you think KU had a lead on Randle, but two of Kentucky's recruits, Derek Willis & Andrew Harrison, knew he was signing with Kentucky well before he signed. At the Jordan Brand game, you will see both Harrisons, Randle, and Walker playing with Wiggins as those 5 will be the starters for the East team. If Wiggins wants to play in Lexington this year, this weekend will give him an idea of what it will be like.

Robin Smith 9 years, 7 months ago

if you followed Randle's recruitment you'd know that Kansas was the frontrunner for a long time

as to the rest of your comment: DUH

you're just wanking yourself on our board; you contribute nothing

Suzi Marshall 9 years, 7 months ago

Logic also said Marcus Smart would come to Kansas. I'm still bummed by the error in Logic that said Alvin Adams would come to Kansas...instead of OU. I'm with you .... this logic thing is highly over rated. It is all the more amazing how Kansas and specifically Self has produced such great consistency even when loosing critical recruits.

texashawk10 9 years, 7 months ago

Logic said that Marcus Smart wanted to play college ball with Phil Forte and that KU didn't pursue Forte very strongly and lost out on Smart because of that.

Beau Woolsey 9 years, 7 months ago

Wiggins is so much Tracy McGrady like it's crazy He could be Tmac or he could be Demar Derozan either way Wiggins will be very good at both levels Ku getting him would be nothing but good for the program he is very good

Ben Simonett 9 years, 7 months ago

Tarik Black: YES PLEASE!

A top 50 recruit with 3 years at the division 1 level under his belt would be as good a, if not better, bandaid than any OAD to cover the one year dip in front court talent we've got to overcome next year.

He's coming in for a year guys, who cares about attitude problems? we know exactly what were getting with this guy. He's not a program player, hes a solution to a temporary problem, that's all.

Bring him in, exploit his talents, and get him out the door as fast as possible!

Ben Simonett 9 years, 7 months ago

I know your not suppose to feed the trolls. but this one was just to easy:

"We can tell that the quality of players just isn't there for KU because, Ku keeps falling out of the picture during the NCAA tournment, Bucknell, Bradley, VCU, and Northern Iowa and then to blow a lead of13 points against Michigan in the last few minutes"

How did all the talent/brilliant recruiting work out for callipari/UK in the first round of the NIT!

jeez, at least our upsets occur in the real tournament

Alex Peekeaton 9 years, 7 months ago

As HEM often says, it's all about National Championships. You realize Louisville just tied Kansas with 3 NCs.

Ethan Berger 9 years, 7 months ago

if that was the case, that makes UCLA the greatest college bball program. But lets be honest, it's way more then that.

BeckP 9 years, 7 months ago

McLemore is a better version of Ray Allen? Really, how dumb are these scouts. They expect me to believe he's better then the best 3 point shooter in NBA history and you've seen him play 1 college season. He doesn't have that take over factor!

KemDooKU 9 years, 7 months ago

Wiggins or no Wiggins - don't matter because there is no better feeling than being a Jayhawk fan - And like the classic song goes ......."if you can't be with the one you want ......then Love the one your with"

Waylon Cook 9 years, 7 months ago

Withey is going to look really good in a Spurs uni. Duncan has about 2 years left and Withey will be groomed well.

Jeff is going to show he "can finish" at the next level. All he has done is get better while here.

Eric TheCapn 9 years, 7 months ago

The Suns could become my favorite NBA team if they get loaded up with Jayhawks. Maybe I'dwatch a game.

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