Originally published October 31, 2011 at 02:08p.m., updated November 1, 2011 at 12:00a.m.

Recruit Kaleb Tarczewski says picking Arizona over KU came down to ‘gut feeling’

Kaleb Tarczewski is one of the top-ranked players in the class of 2012.

Kaleb Tarczewski is one of the top-ranked players in the class of 2012.


Kaleb Tarczewski, a 7-foot, 220-pound senior center from St. Mark’s High School in Southborough, Mass., on Monday orally committed to play basketball at Arizona.

Tarczewski,’s No. 20-rated player nationally, chose the Wildcats over finalist Kansas University — the school that had recruited him the hardest and the longest. He also seriously considered North Carolina and Kentucky.

“It was a pretty tough decision,” Tarczewski told the Arizona Daily Star. “They (KU, U of A) were both great schools. Both had a great history, great coaching staffs, great present and great future. It really came down to a gut feeling. It doesn’t matter how long they’ve been recruiting you. It matters how you feel.”

KU has two commitments thus far in the Class of 2012 — No. 24-rated Perry Ellis of Wichita Heights and No. 144-Zach Peters of Prestonwood Christian High in Plano, Texas.

The Jayhawks are awaiting word from No. 56 Andrew White, a 6-6 small forward from Miller School in Chester, Va., who has visited KU, West Virginia, Louisville and Texas and might take an additional visit. KU is also pursuing No. 1 Shabazz Muhammad, 6-6 from Bishop Gorman High in Las Vegas.

The Jayhawks have been on the losing end of some high-profile recruiting battles the past couple years, including DeAndre Daniels (UConn), LeBryan Nash (Oklahoma State), Josiah Turner (Arizona), Angelo Chol (Arizona) and Marcus Smart (Okie State).

In other recruiting news Monday, Willie Cauley, a 7-foot center from Olathe Northwest, committed to Kentucky over Kansas State, Alabama and Florida.


Gavin Fritton 10 years, 11 months ago

I guess if development into an NBA prospect isn't that important to you, you made a great decision and I wish you the best of luck with your great recruiting but inexperienced coach.

Steve Gantz 10 years, 11 months ago

I'm disappointed to but Sean Miller is a great coach.

Steve Gantz 10 years, 11 months ago

I'll admit I'm not a Sean Miller expert, but Xavier was a fixture in the elite 8 it seemed while he coached there, not bad for a higher mid major type program.

As for the losing an exhibition with today's news, that could describe us too. (I highly doubt it, but we'll be pretty weak in that game)

Andrew Washington 10 years, 11 months ago

I think Jim Boeheim is a great coach, but still syracuse lost to division 2 le moyne in an exhibition game two years ago. I also think Sean miller is a great coach, he's managed to pick up the Arizona program rather quickly. In regards to player development you have to wonder how they did it with Derrick Williams.

Andrew Washington 10 years, 11 months ago

In your post above you say:

"sean miller is definitely not a great coach, they had a good year last year, but lost an exhibition game last week"

I'm not comparing sean miller to jim bohiem- im saying that its still possible for a great coach to loose in an exhibiton game and your argument against miller is not really valid.

Andrew Washington 10 years, 11 months ago

No problem. However, make sure that you understand my point before you just dismiss it as a "ludicrous statement"

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 11 months ago

Sean Miller knows his way around a basketball court..

baldwinjhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Your sentence should read."I'm disappointed too.

MissoulaMike 10 years, 11 months ago

Sean Miller is an excellent coach. His record at Xavier was 120-47 and he took his team to the NCAA tourney in the last four out of hs five years there. In his second year at Arizona he won the Pac Ten Championship and took the team to the NCAA Western Regional Finals. As far as NBA prospects go, have you ever heard of Mike Bibby, Andre Iguodala, Jason Terry, Richard Jefferson, Jerryd Balyess, Derrick Williams, Chase Budinger, Channing Frye, or Luke Walton? Those are U of A players CURRENTLY in the NBA.

Too bad you lost Kaleb, but Arizona is building a dynasty in the desert with a great coach and a city that loves and supports its' team while KU sadly looks to be going down the tubes. I can see why top recruits are eschewing KU for Arizona.

Sour grapes comment.

Dan Harris 10 years, 11 months ago

Yeah, KU is going down the tube and your team Muckfizzu is definately on the rise?!?!?!?

Sam Constance 10 years, 11 months ago

"Arizona is building a dynasty"

I'm not sure 'dynasty' means what you think it means. Either that or you're hopelessly clouded by fanhood.

Dynasty means sustained dominance. Arizona has to get to dominance before it can sustain it.

willie_fu_fu 10 years, 11 months ago

And how many of those players did Miller coach there Missoula?

kufaninmo 10 years, 11 months ago

Whatever. Dude's covered in zits bro, he probably fits in better at UA.

JohnEdwards70 10 years, 11 months ago

By the way, what kind of dope comes over to another team's board in a down moment to do the "neener" thing? How many of us were on the UofA boards when your irrelevant team with its coach who perpetually looks like a dark-haired version of Chris Farley taking a dump laid an egg against a D-II team?

Congrats on Tarc. After Seattle Pacific, it looks like you guys need him WAY more than we did.

roundmoundcat 10 years, 11 months ago

Ever hear of a guy named Derek Williams. I kind of think that Sean Miller did a pretty good job developing him from a mid level recruit to the second pick in the draft. Also, the Wildcats have done an outstanding job producing successful NBA players. Got to say, Danny Manning is one of my all time favorites.

Truth34 10 years, 11 months ago

development into an NBA prospect? i wouldn't necessarily say KU has been great at this recently. None of Self's recruits have been drafted top 10, meanwhile Paul Pierce and Hinrich are really the only 2 guys from KU that start in the NBA. Oh wait, Chalmers also (sometimes) because he plays for the Heat who have no other options at PG and still are hesitant to start him there......

Jaminrawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Ugh. The hits keep coming. It looks like it'll almost be a blessing that McLemore and Traylor will be considered freshman next year at this point. Thank GOD we landed Ellis.

Lonnie Ross Dillon 10 years, 11 months ago

Don't know that for sure. I suspect that by being partial qualifiers they may lose this year of legibility. Not read anything about that either way to be sure though.

Marcia Parsons 10 years, 11 months ago

I believe you have that wrong. What I've read indicates that being partial qualifiers simply means they can't begin playing until next year, but they can begin practicing with the team at the semester break this year. They still have four years of eligibility. This becomes a forced redshirt year.

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 11 months ago

So..he goes to Arizona, he will be a Withey clone?

DRsmith 10 years, 11 months ago

That one hurts. Guess KU should have gone after Cauley after all. Smooth move there Self, way to put all your eggs in one basket.

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 11 months ago

I've been asking this for two years..he listed Kansas as one of the schools he was interested in but not once did a KU recruiter knock on his door..

Now: UK lands Kansas big man|newswell|text|Sports|p

University of Kentucky men's basketball coach John Calipari landed a second commitment for the Class of 2012.


DRsmith 10 years, 11 months ago

Selby happened. Of course that is only one theory.

Andrew Washington 10 years, 11 months ago

we still should have gotten a commitment from tarc. Look how we've been able to develop the big guys here..

hawk316 10 years, 11 months ago

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" Come on, people. We have a great recruiting class set for next year (especially when you include BMac and Traylor). We will not, repeat not, secure every possible recruit. For goodness sakes, you have to give Coach Self and staff more credit. These guys have consistently shown that they are outstanding recruiters.

kuilander 10 years, 11 months ago

... yeah three years ago ... the well has dried up the past 2-3 years besides landing selby and we dont need to discuss how that turned out. our recruiting has been below acceptable the past couple years and its going to start showing very soon. i like our starting 5 this year, but we have no depth. after robinson is gone, then what?? ellis and mclemore as freshman are not going to get it done for us. we are not in a reloading situation anymore.

jayhawkeresu 10 years, 11 months ago

Wow. After all the recruits we're losing at least Missouri fans cant claim we're cheating.... But seriously, something is wrong here. KU is losing quality recruits at an alarming rate.

Jaminrawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Is there some inside joke going around recruiting circles that kids need to put KU in the final 2-3 and then consistently not pick them? Brad Beal, Harrison Barnes, Doron Lamb, Terrence Jones, LeBryant Nash, etc, etc, etc. It just seems like it gets down to us and another school and you can almost always chalk it up to the other school getting the commit. That said, I have no reason to not have faith in Self as he's consistently delivered the Big XII title and he actually has a national title. It's just really weird that this has become a trend the past couple of years.

selfishhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Okay. Let's all try to come up with plausible theories as to why Self is struggling mightily in recruiting. We all know that it could be just a bit of bad luck. Here are mine, which could be a combination:

  1. Conference realignment sours our KU brand. We went from one of the best brands in college basketball to being lumped in with Iowa State and Baylor during realignment, which also bred uncertainty. It may have also hurt our conference prestige.

  2. Self has developed a reputation as a defense first coach, and kids just aren't buying that right now. We all know that his offense is somewhat simple and high schoolesque.

  3. Self's treatment of certain players has tainted his reputation. For example, the numerous "voluntary" transfers has created a rumor mill about how Self treats his players - i.e., poorly.

  4. Self is no longer willing to go the "extra mile" for players.

  5. Our assistants (excluding Manning) just aren't able to get it done. He needs fresh meat.

Any other thoughts or theories?

Hank Cross 10 years, 11 months ago

Those are all good theories. I assume that point no.3 also includes the way Selby was treated. Selby never got the chance to play his position, which among other things stopped him from achieving his potential. Sad to say, but going to KU actually hurt Selby's draft position.

I also wouldn't be surprised if this crept into some negative recruiting where it was pointed out that Selby was forced to play out of his position and athletes like EJ and Travis were consigned to the bench while Brady and Tyrel played until they played us out of the tourney.

Kye Clark 10 years, 11 months ago

Solid theories, and while #1 on your list may have played a part in Kaleb's decision, recruiting has been trending downward for the past few seasons. Self was able to save his recruiting classes (on paper anyway) with Xavier & Selby, but those were not what I'd consider strong, well-rounded classes.

I agree with oxcaljayhawk to an extent about playing players out of position as well as having high-profile recruits sit behind guys like Reed & Morningstar. I think that hurts us recruiting guards. However, Self doesn't play bigs out of position. They are entrenched in the post, and I can't think of any examples to the contrary. Nor can I think of any examples of less-heralded players getting time over highly-rated post guys. Still...frustrating.

Brad Avery 10 years, 11 months ago

Butler played for the national championship the last two seasons. How did their recruiting rate in the almighty Rivals top 25 of life and recruiting success? I don't know why this kid didn't come to KU, but it probably had something to do with immediate playing time. With a couple of exceptions, freshmen don't get starting time on the KU basketball team. Many of those exceptions did not deserve it.

So the kid went to a place where he thinks will allow him more NBA exposure his first season so he can leave. Assuming that's true, I don't want him here anyway. It takes years to develop big men and KT just picked the wrong school. If he doesn't want to work with Uncle Danny on his post moves, he's crazy.

selfishhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

I was hoping for thoughtful responses. You ruined that. We have PLENTY of playing time available this year and next, so that's nonsense. I have no idea what Butler has to do with KU recruiting. Also, this kid will have a lot of competition at Zona. Please educate yourself.

Keith Kienzle 10 years, 11 months ago

wow ask for candy and then complain its not kitkats, why don't you?

Vernon Riggs 10 years, 11 months ago

I don't think any of your theories are correct. The Recruiting Class of 2012 will be VERY strong. We have Perry Ellis (4-Stars) and Zack Peters (3-Stars) verbally committing to Kansas. According to, two other have HIGH Interest in Kansas - Nino Jackson one of the top Combo Guards (4-Stars) and Chis Washburn (the back-up plan to Tarc) a 6'9" Center who can run the court (4-Stars).

There are two 5-Stars (Shabazz and JJ Stokes) and 4-Star Wanaah Bail still with interest in Kansas. Also remember we get Big Ben and Tray next year.

Let Kentucky, Arizona and Baylor take all of the 5-Star One-and-Doners that they can afford. Kansas Basketball is in good hands.

Mike Barnhart 10 years, 11 months ago

+1 Put that coffee down! Coffee's for closers!

kujayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

The head coach was the primary for AZ, we sent Dooley. This kid was KU's to lose and we lost him. Dark days to be a KU fan. I might need to take a break from KU athletics for a while.

actorman 10 years, 11 months ago

So let me get this straight: they've won seven straight conference titles and a national championship. And over eight years under Self they're averaging something like 30 wins a year. And you might need to take a break?!?!?

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. It's people like you that make true KU fans embarrassed.

amaldy 10 years, 11 months ago

+1 no true fan of any team ever abandons them when times are tough

Hammertoe 10 years, 11 months ago

Embarrassing is losing to Northern Iowa and Virginia Commonwealth. Embarrassing is KU Football...

texashawk10 10 years, 11 months ago

Embarrassing is being a "top 10" team and losing at home by 41 points. Embarrassing is being a fan of a school that has 0 national championships in any sport.

Cole Hogan 10 years, 11 months ago

Way to be KUJayhawk! you can just go ahead and remove your account from the site now. You will NOT be missed, nor will we notice that you are gone. Have fun rooting for UK. Don't come crawling back to KU in a few years when Kentuky hits their 'Dark Days' when the NCAA realizes they have had one pulled over on them and kill UK's program for a year due to Calipari's violations. Boom, i said it.

kujayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Conference realignment, our football program being in year 2 of a guaranteed 5 year deal with a coach that is worse than Terry Allen, half of our very average recruiting class being ruled ineligible, Taylor and Johnson refusing to grow up and and now our basketball program missing out on a huge recruit that was ours to lose. This coming on the heels of the ticket scandal, another mid major loss in the ELITE 8, and the rest of our athletic programs being last in the Big XII.

Yes, it's not the best of days to be a KU fan.

AaronHawk19 10 years, 11 months ago

Go cry me a river loser. Oh no, we only made the elite eight for the 4th time under Bill Self. Oh no we only won our 7th straight conference title and the conference tourney. Oh no we have only landed one 5 star for next season. Oh no our football program sucks (which has been the case most of the last 100 years).

As for the ticket scandal, don't mistake someone committing a crime AGAINST the University of Kansas as tarnishing the University of Kansas. Those criminals stole from KU, KU did not steal from someone. KU had the convicted prosecuted.

As for conference realignment, how has this hurt KU so far? Does the Big 12 still exist? Yes. Has the Big 12 added new members? Yes.

Nothing is worse than pathetic self loathing KU fans. Nothing.

brooksmd 10 years, 11 months ago

Hmmm, lets see. KU has over the past 10 years won more NCAA tournament games than any other school. (ESPN) I believe KU is one of only six teams in the country to make the NCAA tournament every year over the last 10 years. (also ESPN) Seven consecutive Big 12 championships. Yep, looks to me we are in a downward spiral and time to fire HCBS before we hit rock bottom.

JCOAK2 10 years, 11 months ago

Why don't you just take a permanent break? I don't know any KU fan that would bail just because things aren't looking too hot. You're obviously not a real fan.

RockChalk26 10 years, 11 months ago

Ok, now I am worried. I have been loyal to Bill and his staff but I now have some doubts about their recruiting methods.

AaronHawk19 10 years, 11 months ago

They landed Perry Ellis and Zach Peters already. It isn't as if they haven't landed a big man yet.

gchawk 10 years, 11 months ago

You beat me to the punch. As I stated before, I wanted this young man, but we still have 6'8" Perry Ellis and 6'9" Zach Peters, which may have been a reason why Kaleb went to Arizona.

AaronHawk19 10 years, 11 months ago

Not to mention Traylor will be eligible and Withey will be a 7 foot senior.

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 11 months ago

Don't rock the boat or your blasted for having no cojones? I guess no dissent allowed. I'll pretend Zack Peters is a great catch and forget about Calipari walking into Kansas and stealing Willie Cauley. I'll pretend the 2011 recruits get added to the 2012 class because they are ineligible this year. I'll pretend that highly ranked guards that come to Kansas will all be taken in the first round and if not..they were overrated. I'll pretend that the KU athletic department isn't at the bottom of the "Not So" Big 12. I'll pretend I'm really looking for something and that's the reason my head is buried in this hole.

JCOAK2 10 years, 11 months ago

I am pretty sure you can express concern without sounding like a total punk...

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 11 months ago

And I was pretty sure you could express yourself without an insult..

kujayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Rumor is the "inner circle" won't have anything to do with KU.

kujayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

The people controlling his recruiting. I don't know who it is because he is not a KU target so I haven't really followed his recruitment, but I've heard they will have nothing to do with KU. It might have something to do with Nike vs Adidas as crazy as that sounds, but I'm not sure.

DRsmith 10 years, 11 months ago

We have a winner. On the bright side, there will probably be some 3 * Canadien KU can pick up in the spring.

mom_of_three 10 years, 11 months ago

7 footer McCauley from Olathe Northwest.
He plays football, too, and they only listed him as 6'10. Someone is fudging a few inches, and its usually basketball coaches.

kujayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Uh, he just committed to Kentucky today. So maybe Calipari is fudging a little bit.

mom_of_three 10 years, 11 months ago

Cauley, I mean.

In high school, a 7 footer doesn't guarantee victory. ONW only beat Free state (with no eric watson), by 2 in substate, and ONW lost to Olathe East (cauley scored 15 against FSHS and 25 against ONW).

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 11 months ago

Cauley originally listed Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri and Kentucky as his school of interest. All but Kansas recruited him. All but Kansas made an offer. Later he included Alabama and Florida. So maybe his 'inner circle' decided that KU wasn't a good option..although I doubt the whole 'inner circle' theory. HCBS committed to KT then Arizona closed the deal. Cauley is exactly the type of player Self has had so much success with in the past...a four year commit wanting to learn. I guess we will see what Cal can do with him.

Eric Williams 10 years, 11 months ago

Cauley is completely raw. That's why Self didn't want him. Think Daniel Orton (UK last year) but with less offensive talent.

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 11 months ago

Raw? He's a senior in high school...just like Kaleb

Steve Gantz 10 years, 11 months ago

Here's my ideas on KU seemingly losing many high profile recruiting battles this year. None could be true, or they all could be.
1. Bad publicity from the Bradley/NIU/VCU etc. losses. 2. Last seasons' turmoil is being played by the other coaches as reasons not to attend KU 3. The declared ineligible fiascoes that occurred this year and almost last year.
4. Transfers of apparently talented players like Woolridge and others. 5. Something sinister is happening at these schools that are getting these kids who change their minds last minute such as Daniels. 6. The football teams embarrassing performance. (an unlikely explanation) 7. Our physical grind it out style is not appealing to some kids who want to score 25 a game. 8. ???

kujayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Our offense is perfect for Tarc, so that doesn't fly. Miller outworked Self for this one, plain and simple. Miller recruited Tarc himself, while Self sent Dooley. Having a HC recruit you as opposed to an assistant makes a huge impression on a kid/parent.

FreddyinLA 10 years, 11 months ago

  1. Miller plays 10 guys every game. Self, not so much. Just ask JW, Rele, and EJ how the last part of the season went for them.

  2. Complete whiff by Self handling Selby. #1 point guard coming out doesn’t play point in college.

hawkson 10 years, 11 months ago

  1. Other coaches asking: Are you sure you want to play in the Big Mountain East XII?

Why doesn't anyone/the media ask why the NCAA is content making basketball a stepchild to football?

The NCAA funds it operations (almost exclusively) with the NCAA B-Ball Tournament TV revenue, while conferences get all of the football TV lucre. Though allowing the NCAA B-Ball Tournament revenue to filter more directly to schools/conferences wouldn't change the "Football is King" economics, it would at least make basketball worth consdering in conference realingment.

Gill: Gone.

AaronHawk19 10 years, 11 months ago

Big East B-ball schools aren't having a problem, Baylor isn't having a problem. WE AREN"T HAVING A PROBLEM! We are still listed as the only high interest school for Nino Jackson a top 50 PG, we are in the running for three 4-5 star wing players, we landed a 5 star and 3 star big man. We have 4 star and 3 star recruits that will be eligible for next season. We haven't lost a damn thing yet.

KU_alum_2001 10 years, 11 months ago

My big concern with this is that Tarc chose Arizona despite the fact that they've signed Chol and three other Top-100 power forwards for this season and next. So despite him having four other legit guys (if rankings have any merit, which they clearly do to a degree) playing the 4/5 spot, he still picked Arizona or KU (and Danny). This is what kind of perplexes me about the whole thing. I think wissoxfan83 compiles some very legit concerns above.

Eric Williams 10 years, 11 months ago

The same Angelo Chol that failed to grab an offensive rebound in a game this summer despite having 4 inches on his man?

jhwkswn 10 years, 11 months ago

7 Big 12 Titles in a row, a NC and some of you have the gall the question Self? Pull your head out, please. If 5 years from now, KU has fallen off the radar, then you might have an argument. But we all know that's not gonna happen, don't we?

Andrew Washington 10 years, 11 months ago

" If 5 years from now, KU has fallen off the radar, then you might have an argument."

....if we become irrelevant in 5 years i think there will be a strong argument. It can already be argued that no coach has performed as underwhelmingly in the ncaa tournament as self has at Ku.

James McGuire 10 years, 11 months ago

A strong case could be made for Rick Barns with Texas.

pnl14 10 years, 11 months ago

Most NCAA tournament wins in the past 10 years? Kansas (28), Connecticut (25), North Carolina (24), Duke (23) and Michigan State (19)

Only Duke, Pitt, Kansas, Texas, Wisconsin and Michigan State have been to the NCAA tournament in each of the past 10 seasons.

You were saying something, rrockchalk?

Ray March 10 years, 11 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Steve Gantz 10 years, 11 months ago

He's an 18 year old kid and he's an idiot because he chose the college he wanted to go to? When KU fans start calling kids idiots for choosing another team we start to look like idiots ourselves.

Their nobody coach is a pretty darn good coach who I believe will win a NC before he's done his time coaching.

Keith Kienzle 10 years, 11 months ago

agreed wissox. The last thing we need to do here is start bagging on a big kid who thought we were the 2nd best basketball program for him in the country.

Andrew Washington 10 years, 11 months ago

I wouldn't say "nobody coach" cause sean miller is a pretty good coach..look what he did at xavier.

Hammertoe 10 years, 11 months ago

Where would you rather be in Januaray or February? Shoveling snow and scrapping ice or wearing shorts and tee shirts around campus...

Mike Skiles 10 years, 11 months ago

There is actually a point made there. Having recruited myself at both colleges (for graduating engineers, quite a difference but still primarily a male student population), it is pretty obvious the difference in October through December for example. Palm trees, hot girls in shorts and minis, etc versus 20 mph wind, cold, ice & snow.

As a KU grad I love Lawrence - but the south is definitely warmer during B-ball season!

That said, I have full trust in HCBS. We run a clean program, and will prevail. RCJH

MissoulaMike 10 years, 11 months ago

You obviously don't watch much basketball. Sean Miller is an excellent coach. His record at Xavier was 120-47 and he took his team to the NCAA tourney in the last four out of hs five years there. In his second year at Arizona he won the Pac Ten Championship and took the team to the NCAA Western Regional Finals.

Perhaps your arrogance, if typical of KU fans, is the reason recruits go elsewhere.

JohnEdwards70 10 years, 11 months ago

What is your deal?? Why do you care what we think about your crap program? You're obviously incredibly insecure about it, or you wouldn't be all over a KU board posting about it. And you should be insecure. What has Arizona done lately? Obviously nothing, since you're touting Miller's Xavier achievements. Congrats on your coach's great record at his prior school. Now go away and stop needing us to like you. It's getting very hard for me to respect Arizona fans with people like you lurking around.

bradynsdad 10 years, 11 months ago

Quick anyone know what big men are left to recruit for next year?

Cole Hogan 10 years, 11 months ago

Lets creat a "keep Trob" sure itll have about as much effectiveness on him as 'Occupy' is having around the Country! not.

Vernon Riggs 10 years, 11 months ago

Yes. Don't worry Chris Washburn from So Grand Prairie TX is HIGH on Kansas. He is a 4-Star that is 6'10" and can run the court great. OSU, Texas AM and UTEP are also in the running. He has offers from all three; he does not have an offer from Kansas. Maybe he does tonight.

We didn't have a Center last year. We ran 3-Guards and 2 Power-Forwards and won some games.

We will end up with a VERY strong recruiting class:

Perry Ellis (4-stars) Chris Washburn (4-stars) Nino Jackson (4-stars) Zack Peters (3-stars)

Outside chance at Jarnell Stokes (5-stars) and Shabazz Muhammad (both 5-stars)

And we get Big Ben and Traylor

I like Stokes alot; he is a PLAYER! But give me the 3-Star and 4-Star players that will commit to the program for the long-run and let Kentucky take all the One-and-Done 5-Stars players that they can afford. Kansas Basketball is still in good hands!

KEITHMILES05 10 years, 11 months ago

This is an EPIC fail by the staff. Why the hell was Self not the primary recruiter? Word has been Tarc was not comfortable with Self until Late Night but of course by then the damage was done.

This will set the program back as this kid was the anchor for the his class.

Seriously, HCBS needs to reevaluate recruiting. Something is amiss.

Joe Baker 10 years, 11 months ago

Congrats to Zona because they are now the undisputed #1 recruiting class in the nation. Miller is arguably the #1 recruiting coach in the nation.


Sandeep Kalburgie 10 years, 11 months ago

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :(

Ben Simonett 10 years, 11 months ago

Its happening agian,

just like last year.

somebody needs to get fired at this point.

jhwkswn 10 years, 11 months ago

You are either kidding, or you are 14. Which one is it?

actorman 10 years, 11 months ago

It has to be his IQ. To suggest that it's his age is a real insult to 14-year-olds.

jumpinjayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Well the reason why some high prized recruits choose other schools is they know at KU they will have to earn playing time, its not given. Some kids want to be told they will be the man when they arrive and be treated like they were still in high school, as gods. It won't happen at KU, Too many good players trying to steal your playing time, coaches that make you work your tail off. Why do that when you have an easier route to take, It takes a special kinda person to succeed at Kansas, and not all of them will make the grade. Good luck to those who choose to go elsewhere, Kansas will continue to succeed with or without you.

Ben Simonett 10 years, 11 months ago

yet, somehow telling kids they have to earn playing time didnt stop Self from landing a top 5 class year after year until recently.

and you want to talk about fighting for playing time? arizona is going to have way mor competition for playing time than Tarc would have got at KU.

so your rationalization = fail

actorman 10 years, 11 months ago

bennybob, have you ever thought about the fact that ... never mind, I just asked if you'd ever thought and I already know the answer to that question.

Each situation is different and we're talking about a few years here. It's not even REMOTELY enough to establish a pattern, and until Self's spectular record starts declining, I'm not the least bit worried.

Cole Hogan 10 years, 11 months ago

it can burn out people as well, and not to diss collins here, i love the guy, hes an amazing college recruit. but having to work his tail off for 4 years, i think kind of burnt him out on working so hard for basketball, which is why sherron isnt in the NBA now. so ya i agree, it takes a special player to want to be at KU.

texashawk10 10 years, 11 months ago

Sherron never had the best work ethic. He was 5'10" and was always in the 210-220 lb. range during his career. He needed to be somewhere around 190 to have the quickness necessary to be a truly great player. His lack of self discipline and a strong work ethic is why he isn't in the NBA right now.

Phoghorn 10 years, 11 months ago

What in the heck does the basketball fight have to do with current recruiting? Most overrated issue in KU history! A good portion of those guys are gone already, or will be after a year or so.

The football coach at the time (no, I am not blaming him for the fight), is gone. Coach Self is still here (for which I am thankful), but he disciplined the players at the time. Dead issue!

Nick Cole 10 years, 11 months ago

KU is on it's way to becoming a mid-major. FB sucks, BB is likely down this year (we can't seem to bring star players back like other schools i.e. Sullinger, Barnes, Lamb, Terrence Jones) and recruiting is not looking good/making up for the losses. All other sports at KU suck. What is going on here? Don't we have one of the biggest athletic budgets in the country?

Self, this loss is on you buddy. I know kids will make up their own minds, but when you are one of the final two or three schools for kids time and time again and you lose out on these kids time and time again, something is not right. You may need to reevaluate your recruiting style because even though you have won an NC for us, you have also lost to a lot of teams you had no business losing to in the tourney. If this continues, don't be surprised when fans start calling for your head like they do the football coach. I'm not saying I would do this, but something needs to change or others will.

Nick Cole 10 years, 11 months ago

So, you are saying that FB is great and we have done super well in the tourney every year under Self and recruiting is great and our other non-revenue sports are competitive each year?

Yeah, that's what I thought. Excuse me for being a realist and calling it like I see it.

Nick Cole 10 years, 11 months ago

I'm sorry, let me rephrase:

"So, you are implying that FB is great and we have done super well in the tourney every year under Self and recruiting is great and our other non-revenue sports are competitive each year?

Yeah, that's what I thought. Excuse me for being a realist and calling it like I see it."

There, that better for ya buddy? Just because I feel there is a bleak outlook for the entire KU athletic department at this current point in time does not mean I am any less a KU fan than you or any other person posting on here. Get off your high horse pal. Let me vent my frustrations as others on here are doing without a punk like you implying I'm any less of a fan because of it.

Nick Cole 10 years, 11 months ago

And I'm saying that just because I'm a realist doesn't mean I'm any less of a fan than you or anyone else on here, okay sport.

Nick Cole 10 years, 11 months ago

And secondly, you probably shouldn't talk until you have an intelligent rebuttal to my comment. Otherwise, you look foolish. If you can counter anything I said with something solid and provide some evidence that I'm wrong, then by all means...

Until then, please don't question my fandom. Sound good boss?

Nick Cole 10 years, 11 months ago

And lastly, how does me being negative about what is going on with KU's athletic department make me any less of a fan? If you could explain this, I would appreciate it. Thanks bro.

Cole Hogan 10 years, 11 months ago

football isnt actually in a bad position, HCTG can definitely recruit,, everyone will admit to that, however, he is an awful coach with an awful staff below him, that is why they are calling for his head.

Nick Cole 10 years, 11 months ago

And what is the recruiting class ranked?

BarkingHawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Are you out of your mind? "This loss is on you buddy?" What loss? A recruit? Bill Self wins basketball games. For anyone interested in empirical evidence, go look it up. Highest winning percentage of any coach at his school since he started here. A National Championship. 7 consecutive conference championships. More NCAA tournament victories than any program in the last few years. And on, and on and on. He went to the Elite 8 at Tulsa with a team of players nobody heard of.

If Bill Self starts losing basketball games, OK. But, losing a few recruiting battles. Please . . . . . . .

jhawkjunkie 10 years, 11 months ago

Well now, next year won't we be getting Perry Ellis, Zack Peters plus McLemore and Traylor will be eligible? I don't think it's all that bad. That 4 could be a pretty good core to work around so things don't look all that bad for next year.

Joe Baker 10 years, 11 months ago

Sounds good plus EJ will likely be back his senior year. Withey should be much better his senior year. I like next year.

texashawk10 10 years, 11 months ago

Releford will be a senior next year so throw him in there as well.

Vernon Riggs 10 years, 11 months ago

Add Chris Washburn and Nino Jackson and we are off and running!

blackhawkjayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

How about multiple losses to mid-majors in the tournament? Recruiting is in swoon mode at this point. With a probable short-run in the tourney this year, we may be hitting a real problem for the following year.

Something's wrong. It needs to be fixed.

Ben Simonett 10 years, 11 months ago

Closed Circuit to KUSHAW:

I need some help here buddy, this ones got me seriosuly concerned!

your a fellow recruiting guru i respect on these boards..... WHATS HAPPENING?

JayDocMD 10 years, 11 months ago

2012 was the year we were going to reload after failing in 2011. No such luck, unless Self pulls a Shabazz out his azz ...

Bryan Anderson 10 years, 11 months ago

7 conference titles and a national championship in the last 4 years, and you think the sky is falling?

You think that recruiting a bunch of one and dones is gonna get the job done? Ask Cal how well that works out.

I'll take Bill's coaching ability and lower rated recruits over higher rated recruits and some other coach any day.

1865Hawk 10 years, 11 months ago

There's quite a gap between one and done and Jamari Traylor. Self has done fine coaching top 65 players. We're recruiting in the mid 100's now.

Don Hortenstine 10 years, 11 months ago

I'm sure there's some conference re-alignment talk in this. Other schools saying that Kansas will be left without a major conference if/when the Big 12 dies (which looked like it was close to coming true until recently).

Remember, these are 18 year old kids that have been treated like celebrities most of their life. They don't want to hear you have to earn your playing time and hard work is not in their vocabulary. Most will choose the path of least resistance, some will chose the path less traveled.

KU is in good hands.

1865Hawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Self has lost it as a recruiter. It is an absolute failure to be where we are at with our bigs when you have the NBA track record that you have. This is the first year that I can remember KU being without a McD's AA on the roster and with plenty playing time available for upgrading the talent. Last year we had too much talent for recruits and now we have too little. No more excuses, that's just college recruiting. This team will be fine this year with a weak conference but has little room for error. Next year is going to be a mess and recruiting doesn't look very hopeful for the future. Unfortunately when Self bolts for the NBA our program is not going to be in very good shape. At least we have positives like 3 players being academically ineligible and 2 starting guards being suspended.

Ben Simonett 10 years, 11 months ago

O god, self bolting for the NBA, thanks for putting that idea into my head.

if you think about it, the effort put in on the recruiting trail the last couple of years is exactly the thing you'd expect to see from a coach on his way out.


Hank Cross 10 years, 11 months ago

Google "Bill Self NBA rumors" and see what you find. Don't bother, you won't find any. His style and temprement are completely unsuitable for the NBA. So I wouldn't worry on that end.

JohnEdwards70 10 years, 11 months ago

I don't think his style and temperament are completely unsuitable for any level of the game.

bennybob, your observation is interesting. I have been wondering if the recruiting trouble is coming from rumors competing coaches are spreading about Self perhaps leaving for the Spurs or the Thunder in the next two to three years.

gchawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Sure wanted this young man, but will wish him the best. Unlike some posters, I still have, and probably always will, the utmost confidence in Coach Self, his staff, and his recruiting skills. This season could actually prove to be a crown jewel coaching year for Coach, I think we'll pleasantly surprise a number of KU fans.

jhawkjunkie 10 years, 11 months ago

Let's not forget Eric Chenowith was a highly ranked 7 footer as well, so there's a chance loosing out on Tarc may not be so bad.

ajhk 10 years, 11 months ago

Padget was a top recruit too. Still, I'd rather have good projected talent then not

1865Hawk 10 years, 11 months ago

That's a great theory. I'm sure a lot of coaches subscribe to the "let's not recruit the top players because they might be busts" philosophy. So I guess guys like McLemore, Anderson and Traylor were a sure thing, oops.

Jstucks44 10 years, 11 months ago

I never post on here but felt compelled this time. Many will say you can't get them all. I understand that. However, you'd like to think one of the best basketball colleges in the nation should be able to pull in their fair share. One more recruiting season like this and this will be a serious problem because it will be considered a trend. For those of you who say don't question Self's recruiting we've won 7 conference championships in a row. How many of those championships were won without high level recruits. The only one I can think of was last year (I don't really count Selby because he didn't contribute except in a few games.) We only did that because we hit a homerun with the twins development. I still think we can continue success but what I'm afraid might happen is we are going to have a few years like UCLA where we dissapear off the map. Which I feel is shouldn't be an option at KU. I might sound negative but I'm more infact concerned.

Dan Harris 10 years, 11 months ago

So shouldn't Self get credit for hitting a homerun for the twins????

Jayhawk4L 10 years, 11 months ago

We need to find a way to get Norm Roberts back on the staff

Stephan123 10 years, 11 months ago

There are always the last minute recruits who switch schools due to coaching chances. There are lesser rated players who later blossom in college. These things run in cycles.

Ben Simonett 10 years, 11 months ago

this is kansas, since when do we rest our entire recruitng prowess on signing "last minute school changers"?

we use to just select the 5-6 guys we like and then go out and sign 3-4 of them.

JayDocMD 10 years, 11 months ago

I guess I can now officially start my pipedream of TRob staying for his Sr year. That's the only way we aren't going to have major frontcourt problems next year.

Alex Wishart 10 years, 11 months ago

You are all cray! Last year Self landed the top PG who was also ranked one of the top 3 players in his class. The year before that we landed a top 5 recruit in Xavier. What the heck are guys crying about? He also got the Morris bros and TRob the last couple years. Just cause we got butt rammed by the NCAA doesn't mean we had bad recruiting. If, and it still is an "if" at this point, we have a down year you all know we have some talent for next year. Chill the eff out people!


ajhk 10 years, 11 months ago

WOW! How can we miss out on so many for years in a row? Recruits can't use the excuse of playing time now. This is just sad. We need a big year soon. Self is a great coach but scoring big time players matters. Look at how Cal has turned around Kentucky. His teams won't be considered an perennial contender because of his coaching skills, only because it's hard to lose when you load up with so much talent. I would never trade Self for Cal, not even close, but, we gotta land some kids and soon. Either that or be patient and let the dirty scandals come to light. Wouldn't that be something if Arizona and Kentucky played for a championship where later both schools had to vacate the season? Come on Self! Get the Koch bros. on your side! We'll privatize all education, buy the competition, literally dig a hole and bury them. At the high school level we'll build real pipelines to all the major talent cities where we can pop all the ballers in a capsule and send em into L-town. We'll keep the best and make the rest work in factories hand making basketballs that bounce in our direction (keeping them from other schools). We'd be so good that we'd play our own practice squad for the championship every year. So make that call Bill!

actorman 10 years, 11 months ago

EXTREMELY well said, alexwishawk. Thank you for being a voice of reason (which of course is quite the oxymoron on these boards).

actorman 10 years, 11 months ago

"Extremely" was supposed to be in caps. Thank you once again, LJW.

FLJHK 10 years, 11 months ago

Yes we've suffered more than our share of stings in the overall sports department of late, but for anyone to extend their criticism to Coach Self is being ridiculous.

This kid chose a good school with a strong basketball program (best in the PAC in my view) and a solid coach. No one knows all the reasons he made that choice, but it hardly signals the downfall of KU Basketball.

KU hoops will continue to thrive, and Coach Self and his staff will continue to be the best at what they do. This season is going to be more fun than many imagine and Tyshawn, for one, is likely to exceed any lofty expectations.

RockChalk26 10 years, 11 months ago

Crazy thought. Hire Larry back as a consultant to the basketball program and put him out to recruit. He has the look, the success, and knowledge of the NBA.

davehawkSWK 10 years, 11 months ago

HCBS has done a commendable job in his tenure at KU. We have a program that we can be proud of. I watched all of the losses to the mid-majors and hurt just as much as any KU fan, not for myself, but for those players who would not be coming back to the floor In Phog-land. The coach can only do so much from the bench when certain individuals decide that the teamwork that got them to where they were was not as important as making a personal statement concerning the individual's playing ability. If the team had played as a team throughout the respective tournaments, then we would have more banners waving. Don't count Coach Self out for this year or next. He has come through difficulties at all schools where he has coached and brought out winners! Noone but HCBS knows what is going on in his mind and the people he is looking at for next year. We did lose two players to a decision by the league/NCAA that did make an impact on this team. That being said, how many of you would have NOT recruited Beasley, even though he attended 6 high schools in his secondary education matriculation?

Have faith, we will be OK.

AaronHawk19 10 years, 11 months ago

See you on November 15th backwoods troll boy.

Ann Oneill 10 years, 11 months ago

LOL! What's with all the Kentucky posters?

JohnEdwards70 10 years, 11 months ago

Jealous and insecure. Like MissoulaMike and all the Arizona trolls, too.

Kye Clark 10 years, 11 months ago

KU didn't lose out on Cauley. You can't lose out on a guy you never recruited and/or offered. We landed the better post-player in the state anyway when Perry Ellis chose KU over Kensucky.

As for your sarcasm-laced comments about our head coach...he does have a win over your coach on the biggest stage. How many rings does yours have again?

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

He has exactly one more Final 4 than the University of Missouri.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Well, I already knew about the vacated Final 4's,however, Kentucky and Calipari did go to the Final 4 in 2011 for Calipari's first Final 4. Hence, one more than Missouri.

Kye Clark 10 years, 11 months ago

According to Rivals Perry Ellis is 24 and Cauley is 39. I'll take the word of a site whose sole job is rating recruits, as opposed to ESPN which has obvious television agendas. Also Perry Ellis has been named Mr. Basketball in the state of Kansas for three years running. Just saying...

As for supporting the University of Kentucky, that's fine. But you were the one who started talking about coaches.

Dan Harris 10 years, 11 months ago

Yeah cause you guys just keep piling up the championships don't you?

Andy Tweedy 10 years, 11 months ago

That sucks! But I don't understand why KU fans have to blast the other programs or the kids for decisions they make that don't include a commitment to KU (except if that program is Misery of course). We've done just fine with HCBS and we'll continue to do just fine. Next year, we'll have Ellis and McLemore (5 stars I believe), and two big, strong kids in Peters and Traylor. Throw in someone like Nino Jackson (a 4 star I believe) and that's a pretty good infusion of talent for 2012-13.

Vernon Riggs 10 years, 11 months ago

And Chris Washburn - 4-Star Center from Texas (6'9")

Jeff Hargate 10 years, 11 months ago

I can't even fathom what Self must be feeling like right now. Being a recruiter you hear "no" quite often, but this recent trend is hard to take. I am sure he and the staff will work even harder to come out of this ok. Rock Chalk!

Sam Constance 10 years, 11 months ago

Well, this news hurts big time.

But I'd like to thank the Chicken Little types in here for re-focusing my despair on their pathetic, front-running, sky-is-falling attitudes.


Something is wrong! We need to fix it!


Again, losing Kaleb stings. But the attitudes here make it sound like we've hit extremely hard times, when the reality is that we're still one of the top five most successful basketball schools in the country over the past decade. Nothing lasts forever and things like this go in cycles.

There are so many factors at play that it's absurd to sit here and play the hand wringing game. I'll start worrying when we aren't in the midst of a historic run of consecutive conference titles, approaching the all-time record for consecutive tourney appearances, and aside from falling short of the fanbase's sometimes annoyingly lofty expectations, having a great run in general as a basketball school.

Side note--a lot of people seem convinced that Self let this one slip by "sending Dooley". First of all, I'm wondering where that information is coming from, and second of all, Self is only one man and there are only so many hours in the day. Self has to make hard decisions about how involved he is going to get personally with what are dozens of recruiting targets.

Maybe if Self puts on the full-court press himself, we land this kid. Maybe by doing that, he isn't able to spend as much time with another recruit and loses that kid instead. I'm so tired of the armchair recruiting experts on this site that sit here and take a giant dump on anything they perceive to be the wrong way of doing things.

Tell you what: once you start coaching a Division I basketball program--let alone one with the lofty expectations of Kansas--we'll start listening to your expert opinions on how to recruit.

Personally, I hope these "down times" for the KU basketball program lead to the loss of some of the fairweather fans that have become more prevalent since the 2008 national championship. Too many fans have the "what have you done for me lately" attitude, and a guy like Self should have earned some respite from such second-guessing. He is a great coach and a model representative for the University of Kansas. We have lucked into hiring three coaches in a row who were at the top of their profession.

If you think things are bad now, just keep in mind that they can get a WHOLE lot worse.

jgkojak 10 years, 11 months ago

Well, next year we have our two red-shirts from this year and Perry Ellis - that's a great starting point.

truthfan 10 years, 11 months ago

Just a thought these other coaches promise playing time Bill tell them they will have to earn it these AAU kid just want to play, instant fame is what is going. Bill is a old time coach in that he expects the players to work for what they get that doesn’t work with these kids today. They want to hear you’re the greatest you will start and be a star not work hard and you might get to play. Kind of a double edged sward I think that’s why we are missing these kids. As far as the Culley thing that’s falls on Bill for not going after them thinking he had Tarc in the bag. The one they should throw the farm at is McGary Although I think he will go some were else we are out of the game on him he is the best big man in the country.

Sam Constance 10 years, 11 months ago

I think this is a good point.

Also worth noting is that Sean Miller--a guy who has never gotten this level of talent--and Arizona--a program that has struggled BIG time lately--have combined to pull in three recruits out of the top 10 of most ranking services for next year's class.

Maybe it's all on the level, but I can't help but think it smells fishy. The same way it was fishy to watch Andre Drummond pull UConn out of his backside.

Combine this with the recent news about NCAA athletes putting together a petition to the NCAA to pay them more, and I can't help but wonder what is really landing these top-talent kids.

Sam Constance 10 years, 11 months ago

Yeah, he's the kid who went to UConn after being on KU's short list.

Andre Drummond is another recent recruit who decided to go to UConn out of the blue.

Clearly something shady is going on over in Storrs.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 11 months ago

Sometimes life is a sh#t sandwich without the bread!!

Ashwin Rao 10 years, 11 months ago

I believe that we are OK. I am indeed very worried about "this" year, but we should be able to reload by the time next year rolls in. This year, a lot went against us. Bill Self needs to learn to manage risks better. He pins his hopes on people that he hopes will join him, and does not make contingency plans... He needs to be like Calipari and recruit more than he needs and then deal with the consequences later... usually things work out...

In short, not worried for next year, just concerned about the lack of depth this year. Looking forward to supporting the team no matter what! RCJH!

Jayhawk444 10 years, 11 months ago

A lot of you are just spoiled. A run of 7 conference titles in a row hasn't happened in college basketball since UCLA did it in the 1960s. You think this is going to continue forever? That is simply unrealistic.

To make yourselves feel better - think back about a dozen years to the late 1990s. Does anybody remember having to play on the first day of the Big12 tournament because we did not earn a bye? Does anybody remember being a #6 Seed in the NCAA tournament? Does anybody remember when our studs were Kenny Gregory and Nick Bradford? Then does anybody remember names like Drew Gooden, Kirk Hinrich, and Nick Collison coming into the program? That turned our all right. UNC, Duke, Kentucky, and all of the good programs have missed the NCAA tournament in the last 15 years. KU has the longest active streak of consecutive NCAA tournament appearances. KU has not missed the NCAAs since 1989 when they were banned from it. The streak would be longer if we could have competed that year because we had played in it for many years before '89, too.

Personally - I think KU has overachieved the last two years. Where were Tyrel Reed and Brady Morningstar on the "ESPN 100"? Yet nobody else we recruited was able to beat them out. We won a lot of games the last two years...but it certainly wasn't pretty a lot of the time. We could beat good teams, but we also squeaked by a lot of teams we should have beaten easily. Our record and our seed was better than our team - which can lead to NCAA upsets.

texashawk10 10 years, 11 months ago

By late 90's do you mean the stretch from 1997-1999 in which KU won three straight Big 12 tournament titles with the first two coming as a 1 seed and the 1999 title coming as the 3 seed? I'm guessing what you meant to say was the 1999-2000 season when KU was a 5 seed in the Big 12 tournament and an 8 seed in the NCAA tournament when Collison, Gooden, and Hinrich were freshmen and Jeff Boschee was a sophomore? Gooden, Collison, and Boschee were 2,3, and 4 in scoring for KU all in double figures and Gooden and Collison led the team in rebounding so Nick Bradford wasn't a stud on that team that lost by 5 to the #1 seed Duke in the tournament that year.

Jayhawk444 10 years, 11 months ago

We were a 6 seed in the NCAAs in 1999 - lost to Kentucky in OT. Yeah you remember more of this stuff than I do. The point I am trying to make is that it is unrealistic to think that we will win the conference and be a #1 seed every year. There will be down years, but we've strung out national championship teams from 1923 to 2008 and there's no reason to think the program is on its way to oblivion simply because we are not the preseason #1 this year and we have a high-profile recruiting loss or two.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago asked I shall deliver. Well, I haven't been feeling very good about this Zeus recruitment for the last couple of months now, and now that it's over......

1) I'm relieved-KU can now move on and work on other recruits

2) I'm a bit frustrated-Maybe more than just a "Bit".

Why am I frustrated? I don't think I even know why I am frustrated, but losing Tarc to Zona is certainly a huge blow to recruiting at the moment. Will KU bounce back? I am fully confident that they will, but Self and Staff need to go find some good kids to help rebuild the confidence because confidence among Jayhawk nation is nervous. At least I'm a bit nervous.

I think the recent recruiting losses are eerily similar to the "Mid-Major" perception with the Jayhawk program. You couple that with now losing Tarc to Zona........I sense some extreme panic...........I know I'm a little bit nervous because I have no idea who KU was targeting as a backup plan now that Ibeh and Cauley are now off the shelf.

So.....................................with all that said, what is the real reason why KU lost Tarc? I don't know the answer to that, but what I do know is that recruiting is at it's most fragile state that I can remember since the late 80's and early 90's and I think it very well could be worse now because the stakes for these kids future are higher than they ever have been. And, it's not just the kids future that is at stake anymore. It's the families and anybody who has a connection with that kid into day's recruiting world.

I am in no way pointing fingers in Zona's or Miller's direction, but I do think once Tarc's AAU coach got involved in the recruitment that that was not a good sign for KU. What I mean ladies and gents, is that all of these outside influences (Whomever they may be,shoe companies, recruiting sites, agents, runners, aau coaches, handlers, siblings, entourage, fellow players etc etc) are having a major impact on these kids decision.

This is my opinion and my theory only, but I think Self is being very cautious on the recruiting trail at the moment.........and I think it's for good reason. Yes, I don't like Tarc going to Zona (I think Tarc is a great kid), but I think Self isn't going to do anything currently at this day and age that is going to conflict the interests of the Jayhawk basketbal program or his reputation as a coach.


tjg1 10 years, 11 months ago

I'm a transfer from U of A to KU. The basketball over there doesn't compare, not in the slightest. Luckily I transferred right in time for an orange bowl and national championship. However, if one were to visit both campuses, picking U of A is a no brainer. The weather, the girls, and the campus are absolutely better than KU. Both schools have their plus sides and Kaleb won't realize what he missing until he gets there and spends more than 3 months.

Justin Daniel 10 years, 11 months ago

If HCBS would have just recruited the top players in state this year we could have a class with the #24, 39 and 94 ranked players. That would have been at least a top 15 class. White will end up at West Virginia just get ready!

Stan Unruh 10 years, 11 months ago

Where was Withey on this one? 7' player to another? He left Zona .... I really thought that would help. Apparently not.

AaronHawk19 10 years, 11 months ago

I wanted Tarc just like the rest of the KU fan base, but these comments are ridiculous. Withey will be a senior 7 footer next season, we already signed Perry Ellis and Zach Peters upfront and have Jamari Traylor as a eligibility freshman next season.

While, Tarc would have been a nice addition, assuming Robinson leaves we still have 4 big men for next season.

It is picking up one of the guards/wings looking at KU we really can't afford to lose. We will have Releford, Tharpe, McLemore, and Johnson next year. We really need to pickup a point and a wing to add depth to the backcourt.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Whether we like it or not, I believe (This is only my opinion) that Self tiptoed the line of right and wrong with his early recruiting classes during his KU tenure (2004-2007) I also believe that the Selby recruitment took a toll on Self. Is that good or bad? I don't know that question either, but with Tarc's deciison today I would say that many on this forum have a short-term belief that change is in order and something is drastically wrong. That may very well be the case, but I also believe as long as Self is on the KU sideline he is taking a turn in his coaching career and looking at this from a long term perspective.

Yes, he is losing out at the moment on recruitments, but Coach K also went through lulls like this after his Championships. Again, this is just my opinion, but I think something drastic is going to happen with all of this underground AAU mess that is circulating our amateur student athletes.

I read Dave Telep's "Inside" story about all of this dirty recruiting and it's absolutely mind boggling the mess it's in right now. Maybe Self is waiting for some of this mess to clear. Maybe he's simply just buying his time. Maybe Self is flat out just getting beat on the reruiting trail. I don't know the answers to any of that, but I do think LJW, Bedore, Newell, Tait and etc need to hunker down and ask some very unpopular questions in regards to recruiting and how Self has or has not handled these changes in the AAU world well.

I have a great deal of respect for Sean Miller. I think he's a relentless recruiter and he's putting in the time and his success especially with the Tarc decision today shows that his work is paying off. I think Miller's recruiting success is very similar to Self's from 2004-2007.

I'm not saying Miller is doing anything dirty because there has been nothing in his past or currently that shows any wrongdoing on the recruiting trail. With that said, Miller and Self are at different stages of their career and it will be interesting to see how Self reacts, responds, and takes action with Tarc's decision today. There is definitely a Q&A session between LJW and Self that needs to go down.

Ben Simonett 10 years, 11 months ago

a couple thoughts that ran across my mind readin your post

1) did the selby recruitment take a toll on Self, or on Self's perception. its a very powerful negative recruiting pitch to tell a recruit "if you go to KU you could end up like selby because Self doesn't do x...y...and z for his players"

2) I agree nothing indicates what wean miller and Zona are doing is illegitimate, but between, Josiah Turner, Gabe York, and now Tarc. Miller is eating Selfs lunch on the recruiting trail.

3) your relieved we can move on to other recruits? im terrified, i see this years class playing out just like last years. we missed on Wilttjer and Nash and had to futily play catch up for Chol and Pelle. Self and staff are so far behind in the recruiting of any other "typical KU level" big recruits its going to be hard to climb the interest list.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

To answer your questions:

1) I think probably both! I don't think so much from a "Big Man" perspective although I could see how kids/parents could view it in that manner, but from a guard perspective.........absolutely.

I also think the Selby fiasco took a toll on Self in general as well from a recruiting/coaching standpoint. I just hope Self doesn't turn into Gary Williams (I am about 90 percent sarcastic on the GW comment).

2) Absolutely! Miller is eating Self's lunch and I hope Self is reading this! It's 4 pm and we're getting ready for dinner and I think Self is just waking up for breakfast. Need somebody to sign and sign quick! And.........just not anybody! Self is going to have to pull something out of the hat to restore a little confidence in the fanbase. It's fragile right now! No wa getting around that feeling especially with the current roster the way it is.

3) I'm relieved the Tarc recruitment is over! I"m a little upset over the family and AAU coach dragging this out longer than their originial timetable. Because of that extended timetable and the fact that KU has ended up on the short end, KU missed out on a couple of other "Big's" it could have targeted over the last month. September and October are big recruiting months to "Seal Deals" and Tarc took KU completely out of that fold. From that perspective, I am a little disappointed.

RNBinAZ 10 years, 11 months ago

I'm sure some Arizona fans would take this opportunity to rub this news in the face of Kansas fans, who exhibited a lot of ugly negativity and smear tactics against the 'Cats in recent months... I will!

How does that taste, arrogant Jayhawk fans?!?!

85-82, Baby. 85-82.


Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Yep, you certainly can enjoy your fun at the moment and deservedly so. However, if you point to scoreboard than Zona is 4-8 all-tim against KU. You have won the recruiting wars lately, but KU has won the scoreboard.

Sure, you can point to the comeback win against KU in 2003 at the Phog, but KU avenged that loss during the same season when the stakes were higher..........78-75 in 2003 Elite 8. I mean, you guys were preseason #1, #1 seed, and KU ended that season. Scoreboard! See, everybody can have fun! You just turned around my day. :)

Sam Constance 10 years, 11 months ago

Way to show you're above the "ugly negativity" and arrogance.

Brian Skelly 10 years, 11 months ago

The vanity of the posters screeching on here kills me. Get over yourselves.

Calling an 18 year old an "idiot" because he doesnt go the school you think he should is laughable to the Nth degree. Either your currently 18, or forgot what you were really like at 18. Get over it folks. Pull your heads out.

Some of the questions about the recruiting are valid -- to a degree. No coach goes years on end getting all the top flight guys they want. Boehiem, Pitino, Calapari, Thompson, Knight, Roy, Calhoun, Dixon, Coach K, Creen, Izzo, and so on and so on. It just doesnt happen. Thinking Self is taking the program over a cliff because we didnt land the top guy (or guys) year in and year out is insane.

Does anyone remember Roy's "thin" recruiting years? The Nick Bradford, T.J. Pugh, Ryan Robertson years? Amazingly, after the horrors of playing with guys who werent the top guys (although Robertson was an McD AA) we still played in the tournament, and AMAZINGLY (yes im being sarcastic) he soon recruited Collison, Heinrich, Gooden.

Its not good to lose top guys, but increasing your blood pressure over it isnt needed either. Calm down folks.

Save your angst for what we're going to do with the Football program.

Mike Nicco 10 years, 11 months ago

Alexwishawk - And how did Xavier Henry and Josh Shelby work out?

Almost everybody on this board complained the last 3 years about Coach Self's limited rotation and how it helps us win big during the season but is killing us in the tournament because he is either not developing the depth or using it.

Who said we "grind it out"?!?! Our offense ranked 5th (82.4) in the country in last season, 4th (81.8) the season before, 34th (77.1) three seasons ago and 10th (81.5) the National Championship season.

Obviously, there is more here than we will ever know until way after the fact. Remember when Coach Williams had recruiting issues in the late 90s? Then we learned how he wouldn't kiss the AAU circuit coachs' behinds or get in a bidding war, like JaRon Rush.

Fred Davis 10 years, 11 months ago

Man, alleged KU fans need to chill with all this talk that Self has "lost it" as a recruiter or that he's mailing it in because he's jumping to the NBA... Give it a rest.

Recruiting is cyclical, and it happens to the best in every sport. UNC went through some pains after winning a title with Roy, and he's reloaded nicely. Duke has gone through spells, UCONN, Syracuse, the list goes on and on. And throw in all the realignment talk, how KU has not done well with mid-majors in the Tournament and the Xavier Henry, Josh Selby debacles and the fiasco with this year's recruits, and there's no telling what coaches are saying about the KU program right now.

The recruiting run that Self started his first seven years at KU has been downright incredible and like all good things, they must come to an end. And it's not as though KU's suddenly a bottom-feeder. There's still a lot that can happen and who knows, maybe a few setbacks are exactly what Self and Company need... Either way, I wouldn't start prognosticating the demise of the KU basketball program and I'm confident that KU Basketball is going to be just fine.

Todd Mobray 10 years, 11 months ago

OK...I can't believe anyone has mentioned it, but I've got to say there has been an alarming downward trend in the character of the players we have been recruiting since around '05. I'm not talking about a Roy vs. Bill thing. I am just saying that we have had more than our fair share of character issues since Self was here for his first full teams with all his recruits and it has multiplied exponentially over the past three or four years.

My simple assessment is that Self sold out on character and drank the talent kool-aid. First it was one or two, then recruits come for visits and think "hey this guy gets away with a little more because he is a great basketball player." Before you know it, its three or four. Then word gets out on the AAU circuit to the low character, "me-first" types that they always have a spot waiting for them at KU.

Problem is, that word also gets to the high character guys and pushes them away. Honestly, showing the personal judgement TT has shown in the last three years, can you imagine what he is saying to recruits who come on campus? And this is our almost unanimous leader according to this team? Every current player we have except one and Tyshawn himself voted him as the best leader on the team.

This "leader" is the same person who HAS to have the record for most attitude/team rules based suspensions over a 4 year career without being kicked off the team. Why has he always been suspended and not kicked off the team? Talent. Talent over character is HCBS's biggest recruiting/coaching flaw. How many punches was it going to take for the Morris's to get booted from the team? There is not limit if you are a lottery pick. You get what you recruit, and when you build a culture, you get more of the same.

Wins and losses are fun and, sadly, the bottom line. But as a true fan since the days I watched the KU fans chant so loud after beating OU in the mid 80's that they had to shut down the post game show because the announcers could not hear each other, my fandom is based on one thing: Pride. I have been growing less and less proud of my Jawhawks over the past few years. Peaking last year when I turned the KSU game off after the early punch to Pullen's gut.

Fans see that trend, players, high character and low character, see it too. Selling out on one or two jerks here and there and letting them rule the roost leads to a program with that is a dumping ground for recruits with "issues" that scare the good kids away.

The sky is not falling and its an issue that can be fixed over time. We tried the talent only route and we ended up here? No matter how many thirty win seasons it gets us, the Jayhawks I am a fan of play basketball the right way.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Maybe Self is trying to change that image, hence going after a kid like Tarc. He has signed guys like Ellis, Frankamp, and Peters so maybe he's trying to go in that direction. I think Tarc was apart of that supposed change, but it didn't work out that way. I think you're right and that is apart of my theory above.

KU_alum_2001 10 years, 11 months ago

My big concern with this is that Tarc chose Arizona despite the fact that they've signed Chol and three other Top-100 power forwards for this season and next. So despite him having four other legit guys (if rankings have any merit, which they clearly do to a degree) playing the 4/5 spot, he still picked Arizona or KU (and Danny). This is what kind of perplexes me about the whole thing. I think wissoxfan83 compiles some concerns very well above.

KU_alum_2001 10 years, 11 months ago

My big concern with this is that Tarc chose Arizona despite the fact that they've signed Chol and three other Top-100 power forwards for this season and next. So despite him having four other legit guys (if rankings have any merit, which they clearly do to a degree) playing the 4/5 spot, he still picked Arizona or KU (and Danny). This is what kind of perplexes me about the whole thing. I think wissoxfan83 compiles some concerns very well above.

ku_foaf 10 years, 11 months ago

This is very disappointing. I am starting to believe the whole Big 12 mess really did have an impact on recruiting.

With McLemore, Ellis and Peters, we should have a bright future in the next couple years! All is definitely not lost.

AaronHawk19 10 years, 11 months ago

Thomas Robinson, Tyrel Reed, Travis Releford, Cole Aldrich, Darnell Jackson, Russel Robinson, Sasha Kaun, Jeff Withey, soon to be Perry Ellis and Zach Peters are all good kids. Who got or will get serious playing time at KU. In general the high 4 and 5 star recruits are more focused on their ego, girls, and basketball than school and being a model citizen. However, that doesn't mean we haven't had any. I listed 8 current/former Hawks and two future ones that meet that criteria, including two first-team academic all-americans in Reed and Aldrich.

Todd Mobray 10 years, 11 months ago


If you are referring to my post, I agree you listed some great kids there, Darnell Jackson is one of my favorite Jayhawks of all time. Its not a clear cut issue, but I do feel it is a creeping issue. One thing I can say about every person on that list (except Robinson) is that they were easy recruits. Reed, Releford, Aldrich, Ellis, and Peters were all HUGE KU fans who were no doubters and could not wait to sign on the dotted line almost as soon as they got an offer. RusRob was a very early recruit for Self and doesn't really fall into my argument. But one common thing about all of the people you listed above, excluding Ellis who will probably be a stud from day one, is that they really didn't sniff serious minutes their freshmen seasons, yet grew into major contributors. (Please don't bring up Aldrich against UNC in the final four, the reason that performance was so amazing was because he played so little during the rest of the season.)

The talent I am talking about are the instant starters who are not lifelong Jayhawk fans. Think about the character of those guys and which way it is trending...Think about recruits coming for visits in '05 vs. '08 vs. '11 and meeting the team leaders. Forget the wins and losses and even the championships, I think the character of the leadership was best in '05 and had issues in '08 ( ) and in '11 we have Mr. Taylor as our leader.

These are the kids recruits talk to, stay with, and play pickup games with when they visit. They are the ones who share the inside scoop on the program and the coaches in unfiltered situations when mom and dad are out eating lunch with Coach Self. They are the ones who the recruits see on TV 20 times a year. Recruits know their names and stats better than they know Chamberlain, White, Manning and maybe even Pierce. They are the face of KU. Who would you want recruiting for you (Simien, Rush/Chalmbers or Tyshawn Taylor).

In Taylor own words: How many times have you seen these names scrolling across the bottom of your ESPN screen and why? This is what recruits see our program as. Walk into a high school classroom some day and mention anything from 1988. That is about as relevant to them as 1888. Not because they are dumb, but because it was before their time. By the time they are Juniors orSeniors here they get it and have actually met some of the people in those pictures lining the AFH walls, but thats because they are now 22 and have lived it.

tah 10 years, 11 months ago

He likes Arizona Now! I question whether he'll fit into Sean Miller's style of play? Could this be another Arizona to KU Transfer Like Withey? Stay tuned!

RNBinAZ 10 years, 11 months ago

Jeff Withey transferred from UA to KU one week after Lute Olson announced his sudden retirement due to having had a stroke. (Stay classy, Jeff's mom.) Barring a similar coaching turnover in Tucson, I wouldn't draw this parallel between the two.

ArizonaAlex 10 years, 11 months ago

Then how about Josh Selby, a major target of Arizona, going to KU.

RockChalkGuy 10 years, 11 months ago

A quote from Tarc on ESPN: "Both schools were wonderful programs with great histories and coaching staffs, and I was so fortunate to have the options I did."

This kid is terribly misinformed about the histories of these two schools. Now we have proof that kids will believe lies told to them during the recruiting process.

Robert Brock 10 years, 11 months ago

He also mentioned that he chose Arizona because they had a fully-stocked roster due to their recruiting success the last two years. Ashley, York, Chol, Turner, Jarrett, etc. Those are phenominal recruits. And he wanted to be on a great team.

Meanwhile, the KU staff has mostly struck out the last two years. We have little to show - especially in the backcourt.

Now, Self and KU basketball is in a great hole. I hope that the staff (those who are retained) can find a way to climb out of this mess. Otherwise, those seven excellent conference finishes will soon be forgotten.

AaronHawk19 10 years, 11 months ago

Although we lost McLemore and Traylor for this season, they will be a part of next seasons class. McLemore and Ellis are both Top 35 recruits, Traylor and Peters are solid top 150 developmental big men, and Tharpe is a top 100 4 star guard. I know KU fans get spoiled, but that is not striking out. Additionally, we are in the running for another 3-4 four star recruits for next year. If we have McLemore, Traylor, Ellis, Peters, and a couple more 4 star recruits Bill Self did his job.

Lets also not forget that Bill Self usually gets one or two players in the spring semester.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Brock, I stand firmly that KU has not lost out over the last two years in recruiting. Timing of commitments, full rosters, and timing of early departures all play roles in recruiting and I firmly believe KU has not missed out on recruiting.

With that said, if there were two kids over the last two years that KU should have would have been Beal and Tarc. If you want to call those missed opportunities than I will agree with you, but everything else I have to disagree.

ku_foaf 10 years, 11 months ago

If anything, we were "hurt" by having such a deep roster that playing time was an issue.

Losing Anderson plus McLemore and Traylor ineligible is a big letdown, though.

MissoulaMike 10 years, 11 months ago

Actually, it appears he didn't believe the lies he was told about Kansas.

Come on man. Do you know anything about Arizona?

Arizona has a long and rich basketball history. The program came to national prominence under the tutelage of former head coach Lute Olson, who since 1983 has established the program as among America's elite in college basketball. One writer referred to UA as "Point Guard U" because the school has produced successful guards like Steve Kerr, Damon Stoudamire, Khalid Reeves, Jason Terry, Gilbert Arenas, Mike Bibby and others. From 1985 to 2009, the Arizona basketball team reached the NCAA Tournament for 25 consecutive years

Your statement is either completely misinformed or just plain ignorant.

Joe Baker 10 years, 11 months ago

My fav zona player of all time was Sean Elliot. He was a great guy and great player.

RockCaCO3 10 years, 11 months ago

"Long and rich basketball history", followed by "...since 1983..."

Damn thats good stuff.

ku_foaf 10 years, 11 months ago

I know they are not 2nd on the all time wins list. I know Phog Allen and James Naismith didn't coach there. I know they didn't win their conference championship 7 years in a row with a national championship in that time. I know they didn't beat KU the last few times they met. And yeah, I was there in Birmingham. Nobody could catch Mike Bibby and Simon. Bibby remains the fastest player I've ever seen in college.

Arizona had a very good program under Lute Olsen and is great guy and coach. Sean seems to building a very good program.

Another 50 years and it will be right up there with KU.

Ethan Berger 10 years, 11 months ago

The way I see it is college basketball recruiting is extremely corrupt. Agents do all the work. It is extremely broken. The problem might not be Self, but the problem could be cheating. And the Real problem is the NBA. The NBA first doesn't even play basketball, it is glorified street ball. 2nd is the contracts. Average players get star player money. 3rd is the Agents who are guiding these kids. You look at John C at UK and you know something ain't right. The NCAA system is broken. They need to scrap, they need to start passing out the death penalties. There are still alot of recruits out there, and I had a hunch this was going to happen. But schools that do it the right way will continue to get screwed over (not implying U of A cheated). The best thing to happen to College Ball is the lockout, and until those guys running the NBA change their ways, recruiting is going to be a holy mess.

DRsmith 10 years, 11 months ago

Yeah because coaches should concentrate on taking 1st round locks and making them borderline 2nd round picks in one year. Only HCBS can do that like no other. Not sure why these top recruits don't want to come to KU.

Ethan Berger 10 years, 11 months ago

Because Henry and Selby played so well... O yea, they played like Freshman. Players don't want to come because they don't want to play basketball. They wanna play glorified street ball. Selby wrote his own path by trying to make plays and forcing the ball. Henry settled for the three point shot. How many titles do you have?

Ethan Berger 10 years, 11 months ago

and have you ever heard of Marcus and Markieff Morris? Let me tell you a story, these two twins come to our school as 4 star players who aren't even projected to be NBA players, some how both get drafted in the Lottery. Man self can't put anyone in the nba.... Not Brandon Rush, Julian Wright, Mario Chalmers, Darnell Jackson, Cole Aldrich, and so on. and Xavier Henry and Josh Selby.

racerx 10 years, 11 months ago

Thank God Lew Perkins is no longer AD. He'd fire Bill Self and hire Frank Haith.

ArizonaAlex 10 years, 11 months ago

When Jeff Withey decided to transfer from Arizona to KU, Arizona fans exhibited the same type of hysteria I see from KU fans. Arizona was still a great place, and has rebounded just fine, thank you. KU is a wonderful school, Lawrence is a wonderful place and Bill Self is a great coach. KU will continue to win and will get its share of recruits. Calm down and enjoy what you have, and what you should continue to enjoy.

JohnEdwards70 10 years, 11 months ago

Thanks for your classy post. I hope your example is a lesson to the insecure d-bags on this board who feel they must come here at this time to boast.

ku_foaf 10 years, 11 months ago

Alex, there is nothing wrong with Kaleb choosing Arizona. You are fortunate to have him. Of course we are disappointed. We would have had an awesome front court with him. With 3 recruits this year ineligible, it probably adds to the disappointment of losing out on a guy like Kaleb. He should be a good one!

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Has anybody thought that the "Smells Fishy" part of all this is that Self doesn't want to be apart of that "Smells Fishy" type of scenarios. Depending on how you look at the situation that could be good and bad. The "Bad" may far out weigh the "Good" because we are in a (Win at all cost) society at the moment.

Joe Baker 10 years, 11 months ago

This shouldn't be a huge surprise because I guarantee you Self is playing it extremely conservative. I don't know what's happening but Self seems to and that's all that matters. The logic may be manifested through all the smoke and mirrors in due time. Self will, as always, come out looking pretty nice.

I had my heart set on Tarc so much. I really watched some of his vids during all this waiting and something really began to change my heart. I began to watch him based on his ability. He had some issues around the rim. He's got great hands for the ball but when he played other top centers, he really struggled. He also quoted something that bothered me. He said bball is "90 percent mind and 10 percent skill." I find that slightly disturbing. Would I like him on my roster? Sure. But he needs a lot of sharpening of his skills and hope that Miller can turn out his big man to the nba.

hawk4evr2 10 years, 11 months ago

I know from personal experience the current players on a team have a great deal to do with the recruiting of the future players. They spend the most time with the recruits on their official trips, they have the inside scoop on the program, and just by their actions and interactions with each other say alot about the chemistry of a program. Recruits factor a lot into their decisions, but who their teamates will be and the quality of those teamates both on the court and off play a huge part in the decision. This kid obviously felt very good about the players at Arizona. That probably was the deciding factor as opposed to it coming down to Self vs. Miller. While I am a big supporter of HCBS I do think he has lowered his standards (character wise) somewhat in the last couple of years out of nessecity. He put a lot into recruiting certain players that he didn't get and then had to suddenly come up with a plan B. If I see any fault it's that there doesn't seem to be a plan B until it's panic time.

Mike Barnhart 10 years, 11 months ago

Are you saying Tyshon Taylor has questionable character? Are you saying he's crazy? Crazy how? Crazy like a fox? Crazy like wacky he amuses you? You saying he's funny? Funny like a clown? How the 'eff is he funny?

Yeah, maybe that is the problem! Keep that fool away from the recruits!

AZWildcats 10 years, 11 months ago

Just STOP! You people sound like a crazy ex-girlfriend! I know Arizona IS, where you wish you where. Just learn to recruit better. Don't get to upet. You will find someone else I'm sure of it. I'm sure it is us not you. Well maybe you are.... a bit boring and needy. But it is okay.... I'm sure some 18 year old, top 10 recruit likes S L O W down styles. Loves your solid Big 12 Friends, snow and the head of your program not talking to him.

It has to be Arizona is paying for thier love, like Charlie shean! Or that the kids that go to school at UofA are DUMB!

CLASSY Kansas!

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Let's just forfeit the whole dang basketball season and concentrate on our strength.


nuleafjhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

drgnslayr - Being the twisted individual that I am, I've watched too. My wife and I were fishing Saturday afternoon (and catching some nice ones!) and finally about 4:00, I told her we needed to leave to get home and watch the game. She wasn't happy about it (because she's smarter than I am) and at halftime she gave me "that" look and said " I'm sure glad we gave up a good afternoon of fishing for THIS".

So I guess my best suggestion is, if you've got something to do - don't give it up to watch the train wreck.

Tom Gillaspie 10 years, 11 months ago

Here is a question for all of the doubters and fair-weather fans. How many of you are in close contact with 17-18 year-old elite athletic prospects? If you aren't, then I think you have no damn idea what recruiting is like these days. Not to mention the programs that are alright with the "nudge-nudge, wink-wink sure we aren't giving you a new car while you are on campus mentality". Get a grip and quit all the whining! Self isn't flash, he is substance. A lot of youngsters are about the flash - oh well. Move on.

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 11 months ago

I'm sure looking at the kid's picture. Coach Self said something about putting on some muscle and building up so he could play downlow. 7-footers I think have one of the biggest adjustments from High School to D1 basketball. many of these guys have never faced anybody of their height. They usually haven't practiced a lot of jumping and haven't built strength to bang inside. Coach Self was probably upfront about the time and effort this kid needed to put in, just like Withey and just like Aldrich before Withey. Instead the guy saw an opportunity with the Wildcats that included potential playing time in the first year. I think a lot of 7footers get bounced because they don't realize how much more effort they have to put in.

don't know if how athletic this player is, but Coach Self likes the Athletic players. Clearly, Robinson is one of the most athletic players I have seen in a while. Tyshawn might have up and downs, but the kid is athletic. All the players seem athletic on the team. This kid would need to put on weight to play Bill Self's style and the kid probably wanted to get in and play.

I look forward to the recruits that Bill Self is recruiting himself and not the ones that he sends assistants to recruit.

I think in basketball you are recruiting about 8 players every 2 years. 1 Top prospect, 2 solid players and 1 raw/role player. You'll also add a walk on every 2 years.

I don't think there has been a problem with recruiting, but if you are trying to spew that, last year was skewed because all indications were that the team would be back, unfortunately things changed. I betcha the twins wish they were playing basketball in AFH, rather than waiting for negotiations to finish. All and all we swung and missed on a 7-footer that needs some work for D1, disappointed a little, but I'll sleep fine tonight. I doubt Bill Self will lose any sleep on it either. I think Bill Self has his sights on appropriate individuals and will land the ones we need for his program.

BEARDOWN 10 years, 11 months ago

My goodness. I've always respected Kansas basketball, but most of you fans here don't earn that respect. Kaleb didn't pick your school. He likes Arizona. It's a great program with a hot, young coach and loads of upside.

But no, not according to you all. Now he's a diva. He's a playing-time hog. There must be something fishy going on! Pathetic.

I thought you had more class than that. I guess the blood doesn't run that blue in Kansas after all.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

That's actually not a fair statement. You're choosing to read and believe what you want in order to negatively characterize another fanbase. There are plenty of well-informed posts on this thread that do not negatively depict Zona. It's never good to make generalizations like that.

BEARDOWN 10 years, 11 months ago

I'm sorry, I haven't read a single post that says "Can't win 'em all, he picked a good school, good luck, see you on the court."

The_Real_Hawkman 10 years, 11 months ago

I got tired of reading the Doom and Gloom so I don't know if it has been said or not but I read a rumor that his AAU coach maybe on the AZ bench as an asst coach.

BEARDOWN 10 years, 11 months ago

Completely false. Add this one to my post right above yours.

jmason 10 years, 11 months ago

I think the biggest issue with a lot of the recruiting Bill has gone through is the concern over KU and conference affiliation. I have known Bill for a long time and he is one of the best coaches I know but this uncertainty has got to have him thinking!?!

REHawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Among all the posts regarding this article, the one I read and re-read was that of dannyxo. He was brave enough to focus on some elements essential to this discussion of recruiting. Kaleb T. has, perhaps, offered significant insight to his decision, in listing the Arizona players with whom he wished to play. An exciting up and coming coach, warm sunny environment, and charismatic skilled players with whom he desired to team: a magnetic set of forces. Sad loss for the Jayhawks. But not the end of hope...or a cataclysmic Bill Self defeat. Already, we have 4 quality players lined up for rookie play next season; and the recruiting trail is still open for nine months.

jhawkpb23 10 years, 11 months ago

So who else are we recruiting at this point for next year? Any other top guys still on the radar that we can snag last minute?

Joe Baker 10 years, 11 months ago

During all the waiting with Tarc, I looked. We're done with recruiting bigs unless some developments or recruits opt out at the last minute. HCBS has been known to sign recruits at the last minute.

Vernon Riggs 10 years, 11 months ago

There are three bigs that have Med to High interest in Kansas according to

Chris Washburn Jr (son of NBA player Chris Washburn) 6'9" (and still growing) from Texas. He has listed Kansas as HIGH Interest. OSU, Texas AM, TCU and UTEP are also in the hunt. Kansas is the only school on the list that has not offered a scholarship but I bet that changed when Tarc announced going to U of A. He is a late-bloomer and now a 4-Star.

Dorrell Johnson 2-Stars 6'8" Center out of St Louis; Mizzou, OU and Memphis are also knocking on his door. No schools have offered him a scholarship yet.

We are also working on 6'8" Jarnell Stokes a 5-Star PowerForward who is the REAL deal. Downside is that he is One-n-Done type looking at the NBA the year after next. He has a strong list of teams chasing him including UCONN, Arkansas, Memphis and UCLA.

texashawk10 10 years, 11 months ago

What is KU's front court likely going to look like next season? Jeff Withey, Justin Wesley, Kevin Young, Zach Peters, and Jamari Traylor, and a very slim chance of T-Rob coming back. That's 5 bigs almost for sure including the 7 footer Jeff Withey who will be a senior next year as opposed Arizona who will have a 6'11' Ukrainian at the 5 next year who is much like Sasha Kaun in his skill set which means Tarc has a much better chance at starting there than at KU next season anyway. Not to be too negative about Self and Manning turning KU into a factory for post players, but exactly how many KU bigs in the Bill Self era have made an big impact, or any players for that matter, in the NBA. I can only think of 3, Chalmers, Rush, and Arthur and...?, so maybe Tarc feels like he can become more of an impact player in the NBA at Arizona.

squawkhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Kid wanted to go to a better football school. Damn Turner Gill!

Brad Boline 10 years, 11 months ago

Hell the twins were only 4 and 3 stars, and look how good they turned out. I say screw recruiting one and dones and stick with the guys that will be here a while and become a team.

Joe Baker 10 years, 11 months ago

Let's move on an play some hoops. I'm ready to take all this trash talk to the court.

Rock Chalk

djhawk75 10 years, 11 months ago

It really sucks to be a Jayhawk these days. Football team gets blown out every week. Basketball team is short on players because the Big 12 and the NCAA gave us the shaft. And the athletic department is deeply in debt. So news like this sounds worse than it really is.

The b-ball team will be fine. Next year there will be at least five newcomers and all are projected to be very good. In addition to that we should have four returning players who will have substantial playing time this year.

nohohawk 10 years, 11 months ago

If you want to see why many of the top players havent't been choosing KU lately, stop looking at the coaches and start looking at the players already here. Unfortunately the players over the last couple years can't keep themselves out of trouble and lack maturity and discipline in the worst way. McLemore had issues before he even got here. TT has been a complete disaster. Selby was stuck on himself (major maturity issues). Sherron had no discipline whatsoever and multiple problems while he was here. At times last year I hated watching the Morris twins. They had major talent but also had major egos and maturity issues with their taunting every freaking game.

I love the jayhawks and will always be in their corner but if i'm a parent sitting on the outside, I may trying to get my kid to go somewhere else also. Parents want their child to have to get the best coaching, to have their talents and skills increased and to get best education (schooling) available. Kansas excels in each of these. The one place we lack lately is what might be most important to a parent. That would be education in life to become a responsible mature adult.

nohohawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Sorry, that should have said " stop looking at the coaches recruiting efforts and start looking at the players already here."

Hank Cross 10 years, 11 months ago

What are you talking about? Only Mario Little got involved in something that was beyond the pale. The rest of their maturity (or lack thereof) is no different than any other group of college age men.

nohohawk 10 years, 11 months ago

My fault then. I guess Sherron showing his junk to a chick in an elevator was very mature. I forgot about TT starting the fight with the football team and Bill Self taking away his Facebook account because he TT is smarter than the average bear. The Morris twins throwing a football player down the stairs shows them as being classy and everytime they made a good play in a game, turned to the opposing bench stared and talked crap showed excellent sportsmanship. Not only did Ben McLemore attend multiple schools but he was dismissed mid-season from Oak Hill.

I could care less if this happens in other places. This didn't used to happen at Kansas. When Jacque Vaughn, Ryan Robertson, Raef or just about everyone else that played before 2008 made a good play on the court they turned around to their OWN bench, encouraged and inspired others to want to be like them. I would spank my kids ass for the behavior I have seen out of these players in the last few years and I don't care if they were over 18.

pepper_bar 10 years, 11 months ago

You forgot about Markieff shooting a pedestrian with a BB gun from his dorm room before he ever played a game. Or Morningstar's DUI, Selby's embarrassing use of the program, the list goes on - KU is a program that is declining in character.

irish2255 10 years, 11 months ago

When can Ellis actually sign? Lets actually get him on campus. Mostly due to the current state of the football team but I have lost all faith in Jayhawk athletics. Nothing is going are way and I don't know why it would start to be honest. Haven't worn anything KU since last March out of embarassment. Call me a fair weather fan but I can't ever remember our state of athletics being so low. Can't wait till I can start wearing Cremson and Blue again. Looks like it might be awhile.

yates33333 10 years, 11 months ago

If you went to KU some instructor should have told you it's "our" not "are." The entire sentence where "are" is misused has big trouble. O.K., you're a fair weather fan.

RockCaCO3 10 years, 11 months ago

What our you trying to imply, that irish 2255 isnt from are uni?

HawkKlaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Do us a favor and don't post or wear anything KU when KU wins its 8th conference championship in a row.

arizonahawk 10 years, 11 months ago

I love reading expert recruiting commentary on this site. FACTS are that KU has won more conf. titles that all other schools combined.

Now, why would we lose some recruits? A. Bill Self and staff may not be sold on how well the kid will fit into the system and school.
B. Lawrence does get pretty cold in the winter. I remember this being a tough sell for SoCal guys like Paul Pierce. KU is a magical place but it's not a top 20 city. C. Self has to manage schollies for several years. He may not want a bunch of 1 and done Selbys. They're unpredictable and often prima donnas. D. Other coaches may promise playing time or even worse, bennies for friends and family. E. Conference affiliation. Big East style of play is completely different from ACC, Big XII and Pac 12. There are obviously great players in other conferences but their games just look so foreign to KU's. F. Academics- don't laugh. some student athletes actually take classes seriously. Remember Raef, JV?

Jeremy Bolinger 10 years, 11 months ago

This whole Willie Cauley thing stinks to me. No sniff of KU? A Kansas kid going to UK just smells of something rotten. And if you UK tools that read this disagree, then think about this: If our head coach, who has a history of being a little "shady" got a player to come to KU while your class act of a coach wasn't even looked, you'd feel those same feelings. Now troll along.

Jeremy Bolinger 10 years, 11 months ago

2 things.........

1. Why didn't Self recruit him? There has to be a reason. Just doesn't make sense.

2. Why are you here UK? Seriously, do you have nothing better to do?

Shaw, how do you know this? Elaborate, or STFU if you aren't in the Cauley camp.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

I agree with UKallday! Don't blame the Cauley stuff on Self and KU. KU put their eggs all in one basket for Tarc. Plus, I don't think members of Cauley's camp liked the idea of "KU" (Take that how you want).

The only thing that irritates me is that KU doesn't have a backup plan unless you want to try and persuade Noel to reclassify to 2012. Hey, UConn did it with Andre Drummond so I've not necessarily seen crazier things.

yates33333 10 years, 11 months ago

Regardless of what other posters say this is very bad news. This kid is a good basketball player. Worse yet this gives serious cause to wonder what has happened to KU recruiting. Has anyone left the staff in the last few years that might explain what seems to be an obvious decline? When Bill Self came I concluded that he was not only a better floor coach than Williams but also was proving to be a better recruiter. I have to reconsider my view.

Has something changed regarding the targets. Have high school grads changed in the last three or four years? Have recruiting methods changed$$? On the surface KU does an excellent job bringing players to campus and trying to impress them.

What's Happened???

Jeremy Bolinger 10 years, 11 months ago

You seriously think that conference realignment has anything to do with this? Seriously? Tell Gonzaga that!

Mel Clare 10 years, 11 months ago

Best thing that can happen is KU BEATING arizona in the tournament each of the next 4 years...............that one would hurt for sure!

HawkKlaw 10 years, 11 months ago

I think the conference instability may be a bigger factor than most people realize. Nobody knows what the Big 12 (or 10? or how about just a conference name with no number?) will look like next year. That's enough for some recruits to look elsewhere.

Yolanda Gay 10 years, 11 months ago

I too am concerned about KU's ability to land recruits. Ellis is a great land but it seems KU only lands the 'leftovers'. Those rated in the top 100; but at 40, 60, etc.

KU really didn't 'land' the twins or Henry. We got lucky in that there was a coaching change at their originally committed schools.

With the playing time available and one of the best 'big man' coach in Manning, you'd think recruits would be tripping over themselves to come here.

I really think the whole situation with Selby is going to sour KU's chances to land great recruits for a while.

Randy Eakin 10 years, 11 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 11 months ago

As usual, I agree with you ralster. Everything is life and death on these message boards. A bunch o' Chicken Littles around here.

RockCaCO3 10 years, 11 months ago

"Self's is designed to accomplish more with team-play than any other system."

Nail on the head.

Ben Simonett 10 years, 11 months ago

teams still consist of players, and you need good players to play good "team" basketball

Self has stated on may occasions he likes to have the most talented PLAYERS on the floor playing on his team

HawkKlaw 10 years, 11 months ago

I think what ralster and RockCaCO3 are referring to is this: Self values the team more than the individual. KU always gets "good" recruits, just not necessarily the highest-rated recruits.

Look at the '08 championship team. It was anybody's guess who would lead the team in scoring on any given night. That's the style of play that Bill Self coaches. He's not too concerned about giving freshmen minutes to improve their draft stock.

Ben Simonett 10 years, 11 months ago

the '08 team had all 5 starters drafted to the NBA..... and cole aldrich and sherron collins on the bench.

that team sure did have alot of individually talented players.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Russell Robinson didn't get drafted to the NBA.

Sure, they were individually talented, but none of them were designated as the go-to guy. Each person had a role. They were coached to play as a team. Bill Self has said that he likes this style of play because its harder to guard all 5 spots than it is to stop one guy. They didn't get individual accolades, but that didn't matter because they won a National Championship.

Hank Cross 10 years, 11 months ago

Agree. For various reasons we never got to see the real Josh Selby. But, I never sensed it was his fault. He probably could've legitmately sat out the the rest of the season with his foot injury, yet he tried to come back as soon as possible.

Greg McKean 10 years, 11 months ago

Let's review Self's Recruiting Ledger.

2000-2003 Illinois – landed multiple top tier recruits, who ultimately went to the National Championship Game. Frank Williams, Sergio McClain, Brian Cook, Archibald, Augustine, Dee Brown, Luther Head, Deron Williams, Charlie Villanuaeva (before Self left for Kansas).

2003-2010 – inherited a lot of talent – Langford, Simien, Miles. Obviously recruited many top tier which ultimately produced a National Championship.

2011 – McLemore (4 stars), Tharpe (4 stars), Traylor (3 stars)

2012 – Ellis (5 stars), Peters (3 stars)

Don’t forget what this man did for 10 years from 2000-2010 in recruiting. I would take his 10 year period over anyone in the country. With a National Championship! I don't think all of a sudden you lose your touch. We have lost more than a few the past few years, more than other years. But still have gotten some good recruits. I am sure he will redirect and get back to prior success. I don’t like losing early in the tournament against mid majors, but let’s show some patience.

Scatterhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Here's something I haven't seen anyone consider while ringing their hands about Self "losing his touch".

Maybe the kid just liked AZ better?

Ben Simonett 10 years, 11 months ago

You know Tyshawn Taylor has got to be loving this news right now, 5 mins after the story breaks that he has screwed up yet again, this comes along to distract the fan base


Steve Brown 10 years, 11 months ago

We get the boys we are intended to get, maybe a few HCBS would like to have slip away, big deal, if it isn't a good fit and feel for both sides, so be it.

We want players that want to be here, willing to work their tails off, play tough D, make assists and rebounds and grow as players. There are plentty we don't get. Wish them well. Thanks for looking at us.

Love our 5 stars, X, Henry, Selby, Mario? yet really love the 3-4 stars that come in get coached up and stretch to potential: DBlock, RussRob, Twins, so many that put in KU boot camp a few years and now make $$ playing/coaching ball.

Do we want to be the team that signs, D. Rose, J. Wall and be known as roster of OADones? Admit I miss H. Barnes, not many others.

Vernon Riggs 10 years, 11 months ago

Relax everyone! This will still be a great recruiting class.

There is another Big Man waiting for Kansas. His name is Chris Washburn from So Grand Prairie TX He is HIGH on Kansas. He is a 4-Star that is 6'10" and can run the court great. OSU, Texas AM and UTEP are also in the running. He has offers from all three; he does not have an offer from Kansas. Maybe he does tonight.

We didn't have a Center last year. We ran 3-Guards and 2 Power-Forwards and won some games.

The 2012 recruiting class will be VERY strong:

Perry Ellis (4-stars) (verbal) Chris Washburn (4-stars) (HIGH interest) Nino Jackson (4-stars) (HIGH interest) Zack Peters (3-stars) (verbal)

Outside chance at Jarnell Stokes (5-stars) and Shabazz Muhammad (both 5-stars)

I like Stokes alot; he is a PLAYER! But give me the 3-Star and 4-Star players that will commit to the program for the long-run and let Kentucky take all the One-and-Done 5-Stars players that they can afford.

Remeber we get Big Ben and Tray back next year too. Kansas Basketball is still in good hands!

Vernon Riggs 10 years, 11 months ago

The more I read on Stokes, the more Kansas is out of the running. Good news, the more I read about Chris Washburn Jr., the more Kansas is IN!

dylans 10 years, 11 months ago

I had that gut feeling...or was it food poisoning? U of A over The University of Kansas please. Would love to have a player with his talent, but if his heart isn't into BBall at KU who wants him here?

William Weissbeck 10 years, 11 months ago

I'd love to know whether these kids are deciding based on the program or the school. When I was at Illinois, prior to Self, it was always said that "city" kids were hard to recruit to Champaign-Urbana. Over the years AZ has often picked up glamor recruits that KU also recruited.

jartiv 10 years, 11 months ago

I am surprised no one has commented on the trend of recruiting super classes.

kids today don't want to be the "go to" guy in a recruiting class. They want to come in with 2 other players that can pick up their slack. Everyone wants to be part of one of Calipari's classes. Every hotshot prospect out there thinks hes Lebron/wade/bosh.

Funny when you think about KU missing out on "top prospects" like this because we have shown that we are unselfish with the ball and spread the ball around anyway.

I am not worried about losing this kid - we need our big guys to be STRONG big guys. This kid couldnt hold his ground in Bills high low offense.

stevephoenix 10 years, 11 months ago

It does suck to be a Jaywalker but Kaleb Tarczewski want with his gut feeling and that was being with a winner and a winning tradition in Arizona and a great coach in Sean Miller to then being with a little unknown school and not a great basketball tradition of Kansas and a run down coach that can't recruit in Bill Self to. Look don't blame Self because it's not his fault that Kansas is at a waste land compared to the great sunshine of Arizona. Hell Jaywalker fans don't be depressed there will always be two star recruits for you guys to grab hopefully. Have a good Jaywalker season kids.

Vernon Riggs 10 years, 11 months ago

First of all, welcome to the Jayhawks Basketball Board. KU fans are disappoint that Kaleb didn't come to KU. He is good kid. He will do well at Arizona. But you are showing your lack of basketball knowledge if you believe Kansas is 'a waste land' in basketball. Have a great season with the talent that Uof A has recruited you should be in line to win your first NCAA Championship. At that point you are able to TALK the talk and WALK the walk. Until that point, come back anytime with just TALK.

AZWildcatByBirth 10 years, 11 months ago


I'm pretty sure you're the lone Jayhawk fan that isn't aware of Arizona's first NCAA Championship. The year was 1997. Kansas was the best team in the country most of the year. Arizona was inconsistant at best. They'd beat fantastic teams and then get surprised by lesser teams. It is for this reason that I really sweated the first couple games of the tournament against smaller schools. Then Arizona and Kansas met in the sweet 16. A number one vs. a number four. Arizona pulled off a huge upset to win 85-82. They then barely beat number ten Providence in overtime before beating North Carolina (for the second time that season and to end Dean Smith's career). The red hot Wildcats then finished the job by beating Kentucky in overtime, ruining Kentucky's trifecta and justifying the Jayhawks early exit.

This entry is not another reason to brag. This street has been paved in both directions. #2 Kansas knocked #3 Arizona out of the sweet sixteen the year before in 1996. Then, more recently, #2 Kansas knocked #1 Arizona out of the elite eight in 2003.

It's not exactly a rivalry but there is enough history there that I would think even casual fans would be aware of the other and silly statements about Kansas being a waste land, Bill Self being unable to recruit, or Arizona hoping for their first NCAA Championship would be avoided altogether.

AZWildcatByBirth 10 years, 11 months ago

Jayhawk fans: I apologize for the posts coming from AZ fans that only intend to rub salt into your wounds. If any of them intend to insinuate that we knew he'd pick us over Kansas all along or that we ran away with it they are lying. It was a close race and Kaleb happened to connect with our other recruits and enjoyed our red/blue game among other things.

I've stayed out of this discussion and just shook my head at the immaturity from both sides but I felt it necessary to step in now that Steve Pheonix has decided to restir the finally settling pot.

The pot may still be unstirred because I doubt many can comprehend his babbling or find his point. He regularly trolls others sites and makes ridiculous claims about Arizona's prowess and acts like the other program is a failure. He's even referred to Kentucky as the little kitties before. His latest foot-in-mouth was when he bad mouthed our star player for getting shot while visiting family in New York while his mother was dying. He acted like Kevin Parrom hurt the program by getting shot. Needless to say Steve's not the most popular guy in Arizona circles. Please ignore him. No real Arizona fan thinks Kansas is a waste land.

Kansas is a storied program. It has been exciting over the last fifteen or so years to compete against Kansas in big games. Both fan bases have had their hearts broken by the other team. Lute and Bobbi Olsen were great friends with Roy Williams and great respecters of Kansas basketball. That's all it took for me to appreciate the Jayhawks and enjoy our almost rivalry over the years.

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