Originally published November 27, 2011 at 04:11p.m., updated November 28, 2011 at 12:53a.m.

Turner Gill out as KU football coach

Kansas head coach Turner Gill leaves the field after KU's loss to Missouri in the Border War on Saturday, Nov. 26, 2011 at Arrowhead Stadium.

Kansas head coach Turner Gill leaves the field after KU's loss to Missouri in the Border War on Saturday, Nov. 26, 2011 at Arrowhead Stadium.


His goal was to turn Kansas University football into a dynasty, but the experiment ended with him going down as one of the least successful coaches in school history.

Through it all, KU coach Turner Gill, who was fired Sunday afternoon with three years remaining on the five-year, $10 million contract he signed in December 2009, functioned as a man of class and integrity. He just couldn’t win football games.

“I admired Turner Gill as a person going in, and I admire him more going out,” first-year KU athletic director Sheahon Zenger said several hours after the firing.

Zenger broke the news to Gill at a 4 p.m. meeting in Zenger’s office. The discussion lasted 15-20 minutes and featured a coach whom Zenger described as cordial throughout. One other member of Zenger’s senior staff was present in case questions about the contract came up. None did.

As outlined in his contract, Gill, who came to Kansas after a 20-30 stint at Buffalo and guided the Jayhawks to a 5-19 record in two seasons, will receive $6 million within the next 90 days. Zenger said the money would come from a redistribution of revenue streams — most notably the increased dollars from the Big 12’s new FOX television contract — and that none of KU’s share of the exit penalty that has yet to be received as a result of Texas A&M; and Missouri’s departure to the SEC would be used.

“That money was going to go to whatever our top priority was, and our top priority just became this transition,” Zenger said of the television dollars.

As for moving forward with a new staff, that, too, will come from existing university dollars.

“We will tighten our belts, and I will do fundraising to support the next staff,” Zenger said.

In addition to dismissing Gill, Zenger also removed the KU football program’s strength and conditioning staff on Sunday. KU’s strength and conditioning program had been under fire for poor performance throughout Gill’s tenure, and Zenger, a former football coach, said a solid strength staff was crucial to a football program’s success.

“It all begins in the weight room,” Zenger said. “The tone gets set there. The discipline gets set there. Everything starts in the weight room.”

One of Gill’s strength coaches, former KU player Joe Vaughn, told the Journal-World on Sunday night that even though he was disappointed about the decision, he understood that college athletics was a business.

“I’m happy my alma mater gave me this opportunity,” Vaughn said. “I’ll always love KU, no matter what.”

The nine assistant coaches who worked for Gill, at least for now, have been retained. Each has 18 months remaining on his contract, and their place at Kansas figures to be re-evaluated by KU’s new head coach. Many of them will continue to work for, recruit for and be paid by KU in the coming weeks.

Running backs coach and recruiting coordinator Reggie Mitchell has been appointed as KU’s interim head coach, and beginning today the Jayhawks will move ahead with heavy hearts and a new focus.

“Right now, I can’t even explain it to you,” said sophomore linebacker Darius Willis, who also played for Gill for one season at Buffalo. “I’m all over the place right now. The dudes that want to be leaders on this team are going to have to step up and just keep us together. We can’t lose each other. We lost a great coach, but we gotta stick together, because if we don’t, it’s going to get a whole lot worse.”

Gill and his coaching staff met with players in small groups for about two hours Sunday evening. Many emerged from the Anderson Family Football Complex with tears in their eyes and spoke to reporters about being surprised and disappointed by their head coach’s firing. Others elected not to talk. Gill was a member of the latter group.

After the final players exited the facility, Gill left through the back door without saying a word. His wife, Gayle, and their youngest daughter, Margaux, pulled their car around back to pick Gill up and he walked past reporters without talking. Many players said Gill remained positive even while meeting with them for the last time.

During his short time in Lawrence, Gill completely changed the culture of Kansas football. The answer to the question of whether he changed it for better or worse was what ultimately led to his removal.

The Gill Era started on an embarrassing note with a loss to FCS opponent North Dakota State. Gill’s team followed that up with a spirited upset of No. 15 Georgia Tech, but no momentum from that performance carried into the rest of his reign. Gill’s teams too often looked unorganized, undisciplined, unable to adjust and uncompetitive.

Overall, his teams lost by 30 points or more 10 times, including losses this season by scores of 66-24 (Georgia Tech), 70-28 (Oklahoma State), 59-21 (Kansas State), 43-0 Texas and 61-7 (Texas A&M;).

Gill’s lone Big 12 victory, a surprise, 52-45 comeback win, came at home against Colorado, Nov. 6, 2010. Again, the momentum of a comeback from a 28-point, fourth-quarter deficit didn’t carry into the next week, despite it being the largest comeback in KU history.

So now, for the second time in 24 months, KU turns its attention to another coaching search. There’s a new man heading up the search this time around, Zenger, but, thanks to the realignment madness that has captivated college athletics during the past two summers, there also are new stakes.

Sources have told the Journal-World that the search will move quickly, as Zenger essentially has had the past several weeks to map out a game plan for identifying a successor to Gill.

“I have no specific timetable,” Zenger said. “Naturally I would like to have a new coach on board as soon as possible.”

Early signs of coaching-search mania hit Lawrence late Sunday night, when rumors of a plane carrying former Texas Tech coach Mike Leach began to surface. Many reporters and even a few fans flocked to the Lawrence Municipal Airport to await the plane from Key West, Fla., near where Leach keeps a home. When the plane parked near the terminal and the door flew open at 9:56 p.m., a Lawrence family returning from vacation stepped out, somewhat surprised by the welcoming.

“Sorry. We know who you thought it was,” the father said with a laugh.

And so it begins.

For more on what's next for KU football see our list of coaching candidates.


Geekinout 11 years ago

Hopefully it'll be in the right direction this time..

TBiggsRone3 11 years ago

There is no such thing as rebuilding. If you hire a coach, that coach should be able to take the talent he has and make them a better team and win. That is what a coach is suppose to do. Coach Gill and the coaching staff couldn't do that. KU players are very talented, very young and hungry to win.

Doug Merrill 11 years ago

Foolish. The talent dealt does make a difference in the product. No coach is "supposed" to take a broken team and make it win. It is supposed to take a broken team and make it better. Winning against the strongest line up of opponents available in the nation was never going to happen this year. Gill took the job the wrong year.

kranny 11 years ago

Snyder has been able to take the same lack of talent and go to back to back bowl games and almost compete for a Big 12 title in 3 years. This KU team didn't have much talent but showed absolutely no improvement. I thought they looked better after NIU but sadly I was mistaken. At some point you have to look at the coaching.

Chuck Wagstaff 11 years ago

Gill's players lacked fundamentals, and regressed as the season progressed. The 3rd quarter was their worst; that speaks volumes about adjustments made by this staff. Character is a must, but so is improvement. Bring me a pirate....

George Bures 11 years ago

"KU players are very talented". What team did you watch this year? Talented, athletic players with no coaching at all wouldn't lose as badly as the Jayhawks did this year. Athletes can stay with a wide reciever on a simple slant route, or block the guy assigned to them.

Cmill1221 11 years ago

Well one thing we know is it can't get ant worse!!!

texashawk10 11 years ago

KU won 2 games this year, it absolutely can get worse.

Joe Joseph 11 years ago

To rebuild again is to imply that Kansas was rebuilt under Turner Gill...

fishy81 11 years ago

This was a mistake KU Fans. First you have just sentence yourself to at least another two years of bad football. Who wll take this job knowing that they have less than one year to turn this program around. You have to be patient to BUILD a program. This year KU played a very difficult schedule most teams were rated in the top 25 at least 3 in the top ten. Does KU have top 25 players? I don't know but i don't think so. So if you don't have the players how do you expect to compete. This is a sad day for KU football fans.

alamohawk 11 years ago

MISTAKE? Are you serious? Having one year to build a program is what college football has become. There is no such thing as patience in the Big 12 when you go 1 and 16 and are blown out are lose games late because of coaching decisions, play calling and the lack of motivating your team to compete. Every year KU will play a difficult schedule and face top ten programs as long as we are in the Big 12. Its not going to get any easier next year with West Virginia and TCU added to the schedule. MISTAKE! Seriously...

kranny 11 years ago

I would tend to agree with you except that this program was going backwards and not forwards. Unfortunately it's about the here and now and Gill doesn't understand how to build now. He needs to take a look at Snyder's program. 2 bowl games in 3 years and had to work with what Prince left him.

otjhawk 11 years ago

Is our schedule ever going to get easier playing in the big 12? SOS is just a cop out for someone. We will never really have "top 25" talent. We have to win with strategy and fundamentals two things TG never had in his time here

wolfdenjayhawk 11 years ago

Mistake? I have a family member that actually works in the locker room for the K-State Wildcats and the talk in the locker room from the Wildcat football team was that KU was a very undisciplined group of players. Gill was a mistake but probably had to be our next choice due to how Mangino left. We need a coach that will discipline, keep the players on their toes, provide leadership and above all else have coaching football knowledge. Case in point why did he take out Christian Matthews and put in Webb when we were moving the ball? Poor coaching that is what! We will find the right guy I am sure and we will be a good team in the very near future.

BillSelf4Prez 11 years ago

thank you finally someone agrees!!!! Next year we need to start Matthews at QB unless we get some good recruit. i would be fine running an offense like Georgia Tech next year with Matthews in there. I mean the guy seems to run pretty good, finds holes, and can throw at least as good as Webb. Rock Chalk!

Gregor Southard 11 years ago

You're wrong because there is going to be a very good coach out there who is cocky enough to believe he can turn this around in 2 years. Of course, not losing nearly 50 percent of your games by 30+ points wouldn't hurt either. Bring back the Phat Man!

actorman 11 years ago

The only mistake was giving TG five guaranteed years @ $2 mil. And after taking that money, he showed that he has as much command of coaching as you do of grammar and punctuation.

You want a perfect example of the Turner Gill "era?" How about a crucial fourth-and-one against Misuse when KU had to take a timeout, then came back and had a false start after it? I would love to say that I was surprised, but considering how often that type of crap happened in the last two years, I would have been surprised if it DIDN'T turn out that way. Would it have been too much to ask to have had ONE crucial situation in two years where KU didn't have to call a timeout?!?!? And as bad as that it was, to come back and immediately have the lack of discipline to screw up the play with a penalty was much worse.

I'm astounded that anyone can think it was the wrong move to fire Gill at this point. All I can say is, thank God Zenger acted quickly. He's already showing that he's ahead of Lew in making smart moves.

Displayhawk 11 years ago

I understand what you're saying Fishy, and I was actually a proponent of Gill's hiring 2 years ago. The problem is that the players weren't getting any better, and they were making the same mistakes. And that comes down to coaching.

locolizard 11 years ago

I also believe this was a mistake. The talent level at KU wasn't there. Mangino lost his last 7 games and without Reesing and Meyer he might not have won a game that year. The year they played in the Orange Bowl they didn't play OU, Texas or Tech and the teams in the North were really down. ON KSU the talent level was there and I guarantee Snyder wouldn't have gone back if the cupboard was bare. Remember how bad Freeman was under Prince, yet he's playing in the pros. I remember fans wanting to get rid of Snyder at the end of his first tenure. I believe KU definitely will get what they deserve and they will be sorry.

Mike Gammill 11 years ago

yeah, look for another mediocre coaching pick, new uniforms, and lots of preseason rah-rah. then, lose lose again.

Bill Jacobson 11 years ago

Coaches are guaranteed 2 years but you have to earn your third year. Gill did not. Next.

Geekinout 11 years ago

YES!!! Now, please please please hire someone big time!!!

Mike Barnhart 11 years ago

Big time? Nah, just hire the right guy. Mike Stoops was big time. So was Tommy Tubberville and Rich Rodriguez. How'd that work out?

Geekinout 11 years ago

Tubberville has shown signs of life, got to remember Leach style of O was completely different than what Tubberville runs. Agreed, Stoops couldn't recruit and is better D-Coordinator. Rich Rodriguez 3-3-5 defense got shredded by power running of Big 10. Pretty much anyone at this point will seem like an early X-mas...

justinryman 11 years ago

Tubberville beat OU this year and then couldn't win another game after that. Yeah he's a home run.

Not so much.

Mike Barnhart 11 years ago

Big time? Nah, just hire the right guy. Mike Stoops was big time. So was Tommy Tubberville and Rich Rodriguez. How'd that work out?

parrothead8 11 years ago

Who do you think will want this job when KU just proved they aren't afraid to fire someone only two years into a deal, no matter how much it costs?

DocBean 11 years ago

Are you telling me you wouldn't take a job that offered you over twice your salary, for 5 years guaranteed, and it doesn't matter how bad you are at your job? He got fired after 2 years, but he's still getting paid for 5! Sounds like a pretty damn good gig to me.

Whoever they get will have 0 expectations with the crap he inherits from Gill, and will be apart of a BCS conference at a program that's invested it winning.

Joe Baker 11 years ago

thank you- a stupid coach that will be a millioinaire when he fails to get KU competitive in 1 yr's time.

Kansas1241 11 years ago

What a great day for Kansas football!!! Thanks for absolutely nothing Turner!!!! Hope the $6 million kicks your a$$ hard on the way out!!!! RCJH!!!!

Larry Bauerle Jr. 11 years ago

Would you? He didn't hold anyone's feet to the fire and demand the contract. He worked hard and did what he thought was best. Obviously, that didn't work out, but that says nothing about him as a human being. I was frustrated with the football team, as well, but when it is all said and done, it is just football, after all. KU may never have a great football team, but Turner Gill will continue to reflect character.

actorman 11 years ago

I agree, nickhawk, that's a completely asinine statement by oletimer. And I would bet anything that oletimer and the many others who have made comments like that would not give up one cent of that money if they were in a similar situation.

LngTimeFan 11 years ago

Asinine post for sure. NO one would give back money he is owed through a legally binding contract. Oletimer must be a K-Stater or maybe from MO. That's their kind of screwed up mentality.

Herb Derpson 11 years ago

Not necessary to post something like that ^^^^^^^

Jeff Kilgore 11 years ago

Exactly. You can't blame Gill for the stupid contract that he was handed. Gill should take the money and run. He really tried but wasn't the answer, obviously.

Dennis Mahorney 11 years ago

He joins myself and a million others who tried something and failed. We wish you well coach Gill...You tried, thank you for the effort, and good luck in whatever the future holds for you.

carldowning 11 years ago

That's really a dumb way to look at this --as if you wouldn't take the money if offered to you and as if you never failed at anything. If you want to be mad at someone thank Lew Perkins who set this whole thing up by hiring an unproven coach, putting him in a spot he wasn't qualified for and overpaying the hell out him

actorman 11 years ago

Yeah, if anyone should return money to KU it's Lew the bandit.

dtownhawkfan 11 years ago

Turner makes $2mil/win lol I missed where you signed up for that at career fair

Get Mike Leach on the phone!!

Randy Bombardier 11 years ago

A black man is quoted and that is racial? I've used that quote a lot myself like when the wife is out and I am home alone. That doesn't make me a racist. You are being too sensitive.

Dan Harris 11 years ago

cb- your a thinned skinned everything has to be politically correct, he pushed me,pu##y!!!

LSHawk 11 years ago

That part was a no brainer, now comes the hard part of picking the right guy to rebuild our program.

Bleed_Crimson_Blue 11 years ago

I hope this doesn't become a habit every 2-3 years. It's hard to build a winner at a non-traditional football school like Kansas. I know the results on the field were, at times, embarrassing, but you HAVE to give a coach more than 2 years. However, I'm sure if the big donors turned on Turner, he stood no chance. I hope we can get this turned around for the better. Rock Chalk!

ebyrdstarr 11 years ago

I agree in theory that we don't want to change coaches that often, but this particular coach HAD to go. In this era of conference realignment, where football is king, we have to do all we can to make football a commodity to protect our basketball program. And there was just no hope that Gill could do that. He was a bad hire to begin with, so the sooner this experiment is over, the better.

TenaciousD 11 years ago

ebyrdstarr - why do you call this an "experiment"? Just curious.

kureignman 11 years ago

Hopefully we've got someone lined up already. This has been a foregone conclusion for the last few weeks.

Maracas 11 years ago

I am so so so so happy right now!

Lanny Welch 11 years ago

Good luck in future endeavors Turner Gill and good luck Dr. Zenger in identifying our next coach - we have faith that you will. Rock Chalk!!

Steve Brown 11 years ago

Two years isn't enough, yet this had to be done even with those few of us that were TG apologists or TG hopefuls. We have no evidence to continue this mess.

rgh 11 years ago

Leach is NOT the guy to lead us to a Big XII championship. He would be a good offensive coordinator but not a good fit for KU!

bjejayhawk69 11 years ago

Big 12 championship?? Lets start with a BCS bowl and some back to back bowl years. Oh wait we had that and that coach was fired. Leach would make us competitive immediately plus recruiting ties in Texas are huge with Mizzou gone and AM gone. Offense rules in the big 12 and Leach is about the best around.

JhawkalumJB 11 years ago

I'm in total agreement with you. Leach would bring credibility immediately. We would see improvements quickly. He is a results driven guy. He knows how to win in the Big12.

justinryman 11 years ago

Leach only tied once for the Big12 south title in a 3 way tie. He won games in the Big12, but he never won a big12 title, let alone his division.

He made some early december bowl games, non in january though.

So why is he so coveted? He runs a wide open offense? That everyone has learned to stop or at least slow down.

no Leach is not the guy.

ohjayhawk 11 years ago

You may want to double check your facts. Leach coached TTU in 9 bowl games. Three of those (2005/06 Cotton, 2007/08 Gator, 2008/09 Cotton) were New Years Day bowls, and most of the others were a couple days before Jan 1, not early December.

Stephan123 11 years ago

Good luck to Coach Turner in the future. At least he has a nice severance package.

Kenny Terry 11 years ago

Gill is gone and like Zenger said its time to move on and get someone that will make this program better

Ethan Berger 11 years ago

Now who do we get

I'm not on the leach bandwagon but if he is hired, I have no problems.

Get a winner, that is all we ask.

Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

A wrong that was corrected two years late...a $10MM lesson though. No one thought he was ready to be D1 Coach in the first place, let alone for $2MM/Year.

Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

And still, I don't think anyone thought he was ready for the Buffalo job, let alone for a D1 BCS job.

Ethan Berger 11 years ago

He did win a conf championship at one of the worst schools in D1. We can't take that away, but he wasn't big school ready.

jayhawks71 11 years ago

Yes, he did win a conference championship, but go back and look at the performance of his division in that conference (Buffalo would have tied for 4th in the West division - the next best team in the East was 6-6 overall). Then look at what Ball St. did in the conference championship game. Ball St. at 12-0 was ranked 12th in the country (speaks to the quality of the conference). Ball St. outplayed them soundly in every meaningful statistic but the one that supersedes the rest, the final score. Ball St. turned the ball over 5 times that game. Buffalo had 3 TD drives of under 30 yards and 2 TDs were on fumble recoveries. One scoring drive went longer than 30 yards on offense. So yes, give him credit for what he did, but know the context.

Ethan Berger 11 years ago

Im aware of the context. Let me put another prospective on it. IT WAS BUFFALO. They were historically bad.

jayhawks71 11 years ago

Again, let's look at them in context. Look at their D-IA history, which began in 1999. So, to be fair, their relevant history is now 12 years old. Let's also look at the names of their coaches before Gill. Craig Cirbus, who I can't even find what he is doing these days after having a D-IA win percentage of .091 and Jim Hofher, who, after being booted from Buffalo with a .140 win percentage was a QB coach and is now an OC for Delaware. Let me take your perspective and step it up. Buffalo was not bad, they were awful. They were mostly bad when Gill was their coach. His lone winning season? See my previous post. Gill should not have been hired for the job.

jayhawk02 11 years ago

I, too, am reluctant to see Gill go, since he has the integrity that so many coaches today seem to lack. However, now that the search is on........HIRE SUMLIN!!

Ethan Berger 11 years ago

Sumlin is over-rated. Kase carries that team. When Kase was injuried last year, they went 5-7.

mcontrary 11 years ago

How can anyone be reluctant to see TG go? It's too bad that's it's a year too long in coming..

kujhawks11 11 years ago

Hire Mark Stoops from Florida State and his brother Mike so we can actually have a solid defense

Geekinout 11 years ago

I'm all for a hard-nosed defensive minded head coach... My only concern is still recruiting...

keithturner44 11 years ago

Make Urban Meyer the highest paid coach in America!!

Ethan Berger 11 years ago

He would want to go to a winning program, not rebuild one

sportjunky 11 years ago

YES!!! I agree! +1 +1 +1

Too bad it is a complete and total pipe dream... It would be great for KU, though! :-)

texashawk10 11 years ago

Like Ohio St. is already going to do?

Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

Well for all those that chose the "UNDER" by Jesse yesterday during the game...won.

The over/under was 6 PM, I'm assuming central time, but even EST made it by a smidgen.

Ethan Berger 11 years ago

Honestly I'm thankful for TG, i know we had to endure through two horrific seasons. But he did land us some good talent that a actually coach can develop.

Andy Tweedy 11 years ago

That seems to have been lost in all this. A number of good running backs, some huge offensive linemen, and some speed guys on defense will be here after their coach is not! A few defensive linemen and we could be in position to get better sooner than later. This was also a year with few scholarships, so if we do take a hit in recruiting, this is the year to do it.

Brian Haase 11 years ago

yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! can't wait to see who the new coach is going to be! I know it will still take a while to rebuild this program but after this season there's no where to go but up! rock chalk!

op43 11 years ago

I stand corrected for my comments yesterday. Apparently both the AD and Chancellor had the courage to make this move. Let's hope their process for a new head coach is successful.

mcontrary 11 years ago

I don't understand how it cost only 3mil to get rid of a winning coach but 6 mil to get rid of an abysmal one. I also don't understand why no one contested the allegations against Mangino. He was railroaded out by Perkins and his supporters so he could be replace him with the loser that is costing us 6 mil.

Geekinout 11 years ago

That was Perkins sending a final spiteful message to Mangino on his way out. Also, I think sadly the good ole buddy system of Perkins/Gill played a factor.

Eric Dawson 11 years ago

Okay, those of us who've lobbied for this have got what we wanted today. Now here's to hoping that trend continues. But keep in mind the timeless philosophy of Jagger and Richards, and hope KU at least get's what it needs!

Geekinout 11 years ago

Chuck 3rd & Long needs to go as well! What I've seen from his play calling could be outdone by a 12 year old on Xbox..

Benjamin Simon 11 years ago

there's no question that whoever the new coach is will clean house and bring in guys that fit his style.

Eric Dawson 11 years ago

Sure there is a question. Cleaning house without examining what you have on hand first for whatever value, if any, it may have? Not a smart move, especially if you may have some gems in with all the common stones, gems that give you immediate tie-ins with current players and potential recruits.

Cleaning house when Mangino was fired is how we lost Chris Dawson and David Beaty, and their losses really hurt KU. At least Gill brought Beaty back after a year. (Sure wish we could get Chris Dawson back as strength coach, or at least someone of his caliber.) Beaty and Reggie Mitchell, with all their individual success with their players, are gems that I would keep, especially for their strong recruiting connections.

On the other hand, I think the strength and conditioning coach and Chuck Long both need to go for sure.

I do not know enough about the other staff members to comment on them, but you get the idea -- after examination, keep the stones of value, and toss the common stones back in the water.

Ethan Berger 11 years ago

Scenario. Lets say Leach isn't getting any offers as a HC. What if we made a run at him for OC, get the stoops brother from FSU (none arizona coach) then have his brother Run our D. It might be a dream, but maybe it could happen.

Kevin Randell 11 years ago

I hate to see any coach get fired, but this was a decision that had to be made. The football program was heading in the wrong direction. Yes, there were numerous factors that lead to this season's 2-10 record. Yes, this was a costly two years in terms of money and setting a program that Mangino started to change from just a Basketball school. The good thing is we have time on our hands. Time to look and really research who is the best fit for KU. Like an earlier post said and I agree with it. I don't want us to be 2-3 years down the road and have to make another decision again. So, SZ, I will be supporting, and praying you will take the time and make the best decision. far as the money goes, if we get competitive, the money will come. So, don't worry Jayhawk nation....tomorrow is a brand new day! Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!!

ZDKC 11 years ago

Oh yeah, can we get the damn names back on the jerseys now.

Rather than using symbolic meaningless gestures, show that through actual play on the field.

drnater 11 years ago

How about the new coach make it that they have to actually win to get the names back on. Until then, get over it. Far better schools than us dont have names on their jersey's and their fans dont care.

Kay Jensen 11 years ago

That's just it. Generally ONLY good schools play with no names on jerseys. USC. Penn State, Notre Dame. etc. We're not good enough to play without names on our jerseys IMO. High school recruits are not going to be attracted to playing for a school where their names aren't prominently diplayed, unless the team is prominent enough to warrant attention just because of who they are.

texashawk10 11 years ago

If a player cares that much about having his name on the back of a jersey, let them go to a school that does that. I want players that want to win and don't give a damn about something as insignificant as what a uniform looks like.

Code_2008 11 years ago

Word of the day: "Execution".

Zenger did just that Gill.

Code_2008 11 years ago

Word of the day: "Execution".

Zenger did just that Gill.

Ed Brown 11 years ago

Two years does seem short at first glance but hopefully we get a real seasoned and successful coach this time around. I hear Mangino might be available. That is, of course, if KSU hasn't hired him as the heir apparent for Snyder. I will admit I woud rather see him huffing and puffing on our sideline than on the other side against us. We already saw what damage his teams can do. Now we have seen both ends of the spectrum I think whipping the youngin's into shape over mentoring them to excellence seems to work better these days. just sayin


actorman 11 years ago

I wish idiots like you would stop pining for Mangino. As big a mistake as it was to hire Gill, it would be an even bigger mistake to hire back Mangino. Enough already! Give it up, it ain't happening.

Let's start fresh and get someone who can win without abusing his player and everyone else around him.

actorman 11 years ago

I obviously meant his players, as he abused far more than one player.

hawksfanatic 11 years ago

At last - could the nightmare be over? He was not the right man for the job. Perkins knew it, I think, blinded by what was going on with Mangino. I'm glad that others are finally beginning to wake up and see how important the football program really is to the university. We will have no basketball program unless we can remain competitive in football. The old rules have changed. Rock Chalk!

bjejayhawk69 11 years ago

I am glad some people realize that fact vs head in the sand "basketball is still good". People saying you can't fire someone after 2 years. How about you can't fire someone after a BCS bowl win and back to back bowl years with a program who has never done it before. Gill may have set us back 2-5 years. I'll save that judgement based on who we hire. There is talent on this team just misused and probably the poorest coached team in history on many levels.

Robert Brown 11 years ago

As I have previously commented, firing Gill and staff is the easy part. Finding the right replacement will be much more difficult. There will be at least a half dozen BCS schools looking for a coach and most of the jobs will be more attractive than KU.

The expectations here are actually pretty low. Mangino got us to somewhere between the 6th and 8th best program in the Big 12 and that seemed to make everyone pretty happy.

It was frustrating watching this team. I watch Tech game in person and when we got up 20-0, I really thought we were going in a positive direction. Then came the second quarter!

hawksfanatic 11 years ago

You are so right. Hopefully Zenger will do his magic and find the right coach. I don't have another 40 years before a major bowl game.

actorman 11 years ago

Can you display the slightest amount of intelligence?

Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

I've heard the following names some good some not: Mike Leach Sumlin Jim Tressel Mike Stoops (AZ) Mark Stoops (FSU) Venebles (OU) Herm Edwards (Chiefs) Gruden Leavitt June Jones Tom Bradley Finkel

troutsee 11 years ago

For god's sake, a big NO to Mike Stoops. He could not win at Arizona. How in the heck is he going to win at Kansas. Jim Leavitt is not a good fit. Mike Leach, no. I want a coach that is defensive minded. Yet, i'd take most everyone on your list except for Mike Stoops.

Mike Gammill 11 years ago

not Edwards, he's as bad as Gill. Leach would be good for a fan base that likes winning 50-45 every other week.

DocBean 11 years ago

Herm Edwards would be a fantastic College football coach. He could walk into ANY high school athlete's living room and sell himself. He also has an NFL pedigree, and can tell kids what they need to do to get to the next level.

I'd LOVE Herm at KU. Too bad it will never happen.

ahpersecoachingexperience 11 years ago

I have legit tears in my eyes!

Side note: anyone know how to repair a hole in the roof? I just jumped through mine after hearing the new.

FreddyinLA 11 years ago

Thanks for that inside info yesterday from that Reeeeeaaaaeeeellllyyyyyy big birdie in the AD who said Gill gets another year.

rockchalkchampionship 11 years ago

ahperse, You might need to change your username now. Maybe to "fatlittlegirlfriends"...

ahpersecoachingexperience 11 years ago

Lol! I've never laughed harder at a post in my life.

JhawkalumJB 11 years ago

Well played rockchalkchamp. That was hilarious!!!!

Ryan Shelton 11 years ago

Well, congratulations. You got what you were after. At least Gill leaves the cabinets full of talent that is ready to break out.

actorman 11 years ago

It certainly wouldn't have broken out under Gill -- unless you're talking about breaking out early for a false start penalty.

irvan moore 11 years ago

thank you bgl and mr. zenger, i am happy to see the university of kansas taking the first step to getting the football program back on the right track.

babyjay1 11 years ago

So happy!! Couldn't believe it when I logged on for the 20th time today and finally saw the headline I was looking for. Perkins takes the blame and Zenger gets to prove himself by making a good hire! Woohoo!!

rockchalkjhawk1 11 years ago

Get Southern Mississippi coach, Larry Fedora on the phone. He is a offensive mastermind and a winner.

escaped_labrat 11 years ago

For the first time in two years, I feel hopeful once more.

Geekinout 11 years ago

Names on Jerseys and if I win the lottery I promise to start the building of an entire new stadium with actual places to park and tailgate. Tailgating behind the buildings on campus just doesn't do it for me...

Lance Hobson 11 years ago

Need to lower the field and get rid of the track. I went to an NC State game yesterday and saw how much better it is to watch a game there. I'm also not a fan of the big advertising boards on the huge scoreboard, I guess they're for blocking the view of people on the hill but they look tacky and block the campus backdrop.

Benjamin Simon 11 years ago

I think Tait had this article written three weeks ago, and just had to insert the paragraph from Zenger's statement.

I wish Coach Gill luck - he was unsuccessful in winning at KU, but there is full agreement that he is a good person. I'm sure he'll be back on the sidelines at another school in no time.

Let's hope Zenger can hit a grand slam in his first big boy decision as KU's AD.

usafJayhawk 11 years ago

I really thought they'd wait until Monday morning... Never disliked TG, but never understood the hire either. Lew Perkins, what were you thinking?! If TG was truly a man of integrity, he'd return a good chunk of that $10M - for failing to deliver on the terms of the contract. $2M a win. Yikes. Good luck in the future with your millions, TG, and here's to KU's future on the gridiron - with somebody else!

drnater 11 years ago

If KU was truly a school of integrity they'd pay him the money for failing to deliver on the terms of the contract. (which they are going to) That door goes both ways.

JhawkalumJB 11 years ago

TG owes KU nothing. He gave us his best effort, but it wasn't enough. We signed the contract and therefore we owe TG the remaining $6mill. Good luck TG, I wish it would have worked out differently.

Now lets hire a winner!!!

Jayhawk1958 11 years ago

There really is no winner in this situation. The revolving door in KU football continues which is bad but I just didn't see enough improvement to keep him. I honestly don't think they would have fired him if it weren't for all of those blowout losses. Yes I do feel sorry for Turner as he is a great guy to be around. I think he bit off more then he could chew and no fault of him, but Perkins.

drnater 11 years ago

Now lets see how many recruits decommit and how many players leave due to the firing.

bjejayhawk69 11 years ago

How many had actually committed this year? 4 ??

I am more excited about who we hire and how many more are suddenly interested.

drnater 11 years ago

7, one decommitted a couple weeks ago. Also, I believe we only have like 13 scholarships to give this year so does that help or hinder the new coach?

Kevin Studer 11 years ago

If some players leave due to Gill going? Yes, that will open more scholarships. Either way, better coaching will improve this team.

Mickster 11 years ago

Let's all HOPE and PRAY that Jordan Webb decommits!!!

Kyle Sybesma 11 years ago

Best of luck to you Turner Gill. I thought you were a good hire at the time but it just hasn't worked out.

danmoore 11 years ago

No matter how much you support this decision this can only be viewed as a sad day for KU. We lost a recruiting class after Mangino and will now lose another. This will only dig a deeper hole for the next coach to dig out of.

Firing Gill was the easy part. The hard part is finding a new coach.

troutsee 11 years ago

We would have lost a recruiting class if we had kept Gill. This was a good move for Gill and KU. Gill will be happier and richer and KU FB now has HOPE.

texashawk10 11 years ago

KU only had something like 13 scholarships this year anyway, recruiting is not going to take a huge hit and it opens up the possibility of JuCo's to step in while last year's class continues to bulk up and get experience.

BringBackNike 11 years ago

Turner kept telling me to Believe and I never did. But after today I'm beginning to think that maybe there is a god out there.

Can't wait to finally learn our players' names next year since they will be on their jerseys!

drnater 11 years ago

If having the names on the back of the jersey's is the only way you'll know who's playing, then that proves just how bad of a fan you are.

rockemchalkemrobots 11 years ago

Yeah, Penn State doesn't have names on the back of their jerseys and...never mind.

Mike Kendall 11 years ago

I had a feeling that would be it for HCTG after losing to Mizzou. The next coach hired won't have to worry about the Tigers next year. The Jayhawks are so far behind the Wildcats, as far as, being successful. That will continue to be the measuring stick for KU football coaches. I like Coach Gill as a person but there were times that I just think he vapor locked on certain things and in playing rivals, like K-State and Missouri. He will always be remembered for his first loss against North Dakota State and his last loss against Mizzery. What a shame!

Jack McEnaney 11 years ago

Jim tressel is the man for the job. He needs to prove himself. I will trade three bowl wins with one big twelve championship and having to find a new coach in three years vs a gamble on some i-aa coach with no big time experience. This is these kids third coach in three years. They need a strong voice by a coach they believe in. They all grew up watching football, and during that time tressel was the best coach in the land.

ksballboy 11 years ago

Yeah, or maybe you can get John Gruden to give up his multi-million dollar contract and come out of retirement. KU football is such a prestigious institution...

texashawk10 11 years ago

Are you also willing to take the sanctions that will cripple any progress Tressel would make at KU as well making it impossible for KU to be competitive for the next decade?

seagull 11 years ago

Fortunately for all of us and for KU, Sheahon Zenger knows more about football than all of us armchair quarterbacks put together. He'll get a good coach - and a decent one - and support him. Many of us were rooting for Turner Gill and his approach to coaching. Those 60-7 losses were just too much.....

squawkhawk 11 years ago

Yeah, that's what they said about Lew Perkins. LOL

laughingatallofu 11 years ago

"Gill’s teams too often looked unorganized, undisciplined, unable to adjust and uncompetitive."

There was the gist of the problem. Despite all of his admirable attributes, Coach couldn't coach! How many times did he have to say himself, "We got out-coached."

We need a coach. Hopefully, the next guy will also be squeaky clean, all-around nice guy, yada, yada, but with the ability to help talented athletes "reach their full potential as a football player" -- something that Gill said he was doing, but obviously wasn't.

Lance Hobson 11 years ago

You guys are dreaming if you think we can get Jim Tressel. We'd be lucky to get Luke Fickell.

Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

Akron is targeting Tressel, you don't think we could get Tressel, if Akron thinks they can?

hawksfanatic 11 years ago

Actually, I was impressed with the Fickell performed against Michigan.

patkindle 11 years ago

turner gill is smarter than all of you he has 6 million bucks you do not

Geekinout 11 years ago

...and for all those who feel bad for him being fired early. Would you feel bad for someone who just won the lottery???

rockemchalkemrobots 11 years ago

Right. I wish I had never heard of Turner Gill.

ZDKC 11 years ago

Money not defining Turner Gill?

If that's the case, then I'm sure he should have no problem giving back the 6M he is about to collect for work not performed (although mandated by contract).

actorman 11 years ago

Not succeeding is not the same thing as not working at it. No one questioned his work ethic or his motivation, and he is under absolutely no obligation to return one red cent of his money. That still doesn't mean that money defines him. And if you don't know the difference, you don't have much to show for your education.

Geekinout 11 years ago

Than why did he leave his lower paying Buffalo job? He wasn't very loyal to that program for leaving!

jhawkjunkie 11 years ago

So will The KU Football Coach's Show be on tonight?

Randy Bombardier 11 years ago

I like the idea of Mark AND Mike Stoops together so that if the conference collapses 5 or 6 years from now, OU will take us with them.

Seriously, Petersen, Leach, Nutt, June Jones, Butch Jones, Cromwell, Tressel, Fulmer, or the best Texas HS coach we can find. Pay him year to year with a base of a half mil and 150k per win bonus. Take any coach who would take that deal.

I would not mind at all re-hiring either MM or Glen Mason. Each did respectable jobs. Mangino should never have been fired. That was handled very clumsily.

Dyrk Dugan 11 years ago

it's a sad day. not only because KU is looking for a football coach again....but that a man who says and does all the right things....couldn't do enough in two years, to get him a third.

If KU had won one more game this year....i fully expected him to still be here. i said a few weeks ago, that we needed to beat ISU for his job security....and our kids played our hearts out that day, and the next week, only to fall just short.

and that ultimately is what it did him in. you can't lose to non Div. 1 can't consistently have to call time outs to get plays can't more than once, give up a score in under 30 seconds at the end of the 1st can't have a starting QB lose every league game he starts can't never win a road can't have an offense that gets worse and worse as the season moves along.

Mr. Zenger is a football guy first and foremost. if he swings and misses on this hire, then he must be removed as AD because he SHOULD get this right. we have great facilities, a passionate fan base, and, despite all the disappointments that have sometimes overwhelmed this program, pretty good football tradition.

We thank Turner Gill and his family for his effort...but it didn't work out. He has a place in college athletics i believe...just not a head coach at this school.

Brennan Keller 11 years ago

Quality comment from a quality fan.

Kevin Randell 11 years ago

Agree...wish there were more true KU fans like mvjayhak. Look forward to sitting next to fans like this next year.

irvan moore 11 years ago

does this mean maybe the kid from colorado will play quarterback now that tg is gone? i still don't understand what happened, is he even here?

Aileen Dingus 11 years ago

So let me get this straight.

Turner Gill had a team of students working for him, he trained them, told them how to do their job, and when they went to do it, they didn't do it well. He got fired, and will collect $6 million within 90 days.

I have a team of students working for me, I train them, tell them how to do their job, and when they go do it, if they don't do it well, THEY get fired, and I have to do their work until I hire someone else, PLUS there are no bonuses or raises.

I have a bit of a problem with this.

Aileen Dingus 11 years ago

Nah. I'm waiting to see if I get offered a bonus.

JayHawkFanToo 11 years ago

Marty Schottenheimer. OK, so we will never win the BCS, but we will have solid teams with winning records. The drawback is that he is 68 years old, but he could easily work for another 5-10years (?)...enough to bring the program back to respectability. He is the current head coach of the Virginia Destroyers of the United Football League, and KU has got to be a better job...

bjejayhawk69 11 years ago

I said it before Mike Leach. Deep Texas recruiting ties will be only be better with Misery and AM gone. Offense is king in the Big 12 and most teams run variation of the offense Leach designed. Plus his name would make a splash recruiting wise and he would love to stick to not only T tech but every other Big 12 school. And games would be an absolute ton of fun to watch and follow.

On a side note we may have to build a shed for the poor little James boy who had to cry to daddy that he was being mistreated.

John Randall 11 years ago

Does this make 3 times you have said it?

Bellator 11 years ago

If he said it 10,000 times it wouldn't be enough. Say it again!

bjejayhawk69 11 years ago

I said it before Mike Leach. Deep Texas recruiting ties will be only be better with Misery and AM gone. Offense is king in the Big 12 and most teams run variation of the offense Leach designed. Plus his name would make a splash recruiting wise and he would love to stick to not only T tech but every other Big 12 school. And games would be an absolute ton of fun to watch and follow.

On a side note we may have to build a shed for the poor little James boy who had to cry to daddy that he was being mistreated.

rockemchalkemrobots 11 years ago

You did say it before. I will vouch for that.

JhawkalumJB 11 years ago

I'm all for Leach as well. Also, notice how Adam James never amounted to anything at the college level (even after Leach left). I think he just had the spoiled rich kid syndrome.

Leach is the man. I hope we get him!

catchagrenade 11 years ago

Finally. The football gods must be smiling at KU, at SZ, and at the current and future KU football players. Thank you so much for this news. When the sun came out this morning, I knew something good was going to happen...

Brennan Keller 11 years ago

Here is what needs to go down: KU needs to get a "good" head coach who plans on staying in Lawrence long term.

Who KU should fire: Vic Shealy, Chuck Long, Aaron Stamn (special teams/tight ends coach) our special teams was pretty awful all season. Robert Wimberly (pass coordinator/safeties coach).. .. Does this even need explaining? Also axe Buddy Wyatt (co-defensive coordinator/d-line) our d-line was pretty bad all season.

Who KU should keep: DEFINITELY Reggie Mitchell (recruiting coordinator/running backs coach). Believe it or not, KU has had better than expected recruiting classes under the Gill era. Also, our running backs were a positive for us all season. Our running backs are comfortable with his style, so there is no reason to change that.

Keep Vantz Singletary (linebackers coach) just look at Steven Johnson's performance as linebacker this season. Need I say more?

What do you think Jayhawk Nation?


Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

I guess Reggie Mitchell should stay, but if the new coach says can everyone, I'm behing the coach. I'm indifferent about VS.

The three assistants should have been canned by TG, but since he didn't do, yes they should be gone as well.

I think I would agree with everything except "our d-line was pretty bad all season". I would go with attrotious!

Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

I must say that my dream would be: Head Coach - Jim Tressel Offensive Coordinator - Mike Leach Defensive Coordinator - Stoops

JhawkalumJB 11 years ago

replace Tressel with Meyer and I'm with you, for sure!

Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

I clearly stated that it was a dream...

boknowssports 11 years ago

Wow, Christmas came a month early! Yippeeeeee!!!!!! KU football would have stayed at 3-9 next year with Gill. Now we can at least hope for something better. Gill just simply did not have any idea how to compete in a BCS conference. He only had one winning season prior to coming to KU. He made 450K and by everyone's view, should have maybe got 1 mil at most to come to KU....and Perkins gives him 2 mil to "generate enthusiasm that we landed a big fish".... We basically got a 450K a year coach and simply paid way, way, way too much. Gill is not head coach material, more of a position coach. He has no vision for overall football operations. Good Luck to him, but with that cash, he can retire. I doubt any schools will look at him as a head coach. Maybe high school, seriously, he would be good there I think. No cussing, etc.

Chris Weaver 11 years ago

I was enthusiastic when Gill was hired, but this team continued to digress on the field. He was the kind of guy I wanted to represent our university, and I have the upmost respect for him as a person. It is tough to see such a great guy fail. Buthelezi did fail. And he failed miserably.

Good luck in your future FHCTG. You will always be a part of KU.

Now it's time for ADSZ to put his thumbprint on this University.

Chris Weaver 11 years ago

dude - if Turner Gill is your idea of the "most hated coach in KU history" - you have either limited experience or abnormal standards. I'm glad he was fired today, but "hated"?

texashawk10 11 years ago

That tractor in his picture is his only means of transportation, that's all you need to know about him.

Ed Fox 11 years ago

Some of you will get caught in this crossfire, but what a bunch of classless fans showing up here. A fan base like this, exemplified by attendance at games, is the reason getting a top flight coach is almost impossible and the program will always struggle. Gill may have needed to go, but the reaction here is a joke. KU fb will likely get what it deserves. Hopefully that's better than I'm seeing here.

Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

What do you mean a classless fanbase?

One that has passion about the football program as well as the basketball program?

One that expects to win more than 2-3 games a year?

One that expects to go to a bowl game every 2-3 years?

One that expects a coach that is paid in the Top 25% of D1 football coaches to actually come prepared to coach a game on Saturday?

I was one that thought KU actually should have fired TG for cause (incompetency), but am happy that we will be seeking a new coach that actually has proven themselves.

gardenjay 11 years ago

good one - maybe this was the issue on this site all along.

boknowssports 11 years ago

Gill turned KU football into a joke by sportspersons all across America. We were dead last on defense all year, yet Gill had no clue how to make any adjustments. The offense looked decent early against some cupcakes, but now it is down around 90th out of 120. Face it, Gill could not produce and worse yet, his second year was actually worse than his first.

Geekinout 11 years ago

Never mind this person, just likes a losing football program... Super fan here needs to step down from the high horse...

Ryan Shelton 11 years ago

Two thoughts: 1. Two years is apparently the new three years. God bless you Ty Willingham. 2. I thought that Coach Gill made some bad calls on the field, but he is leaving KU in a better position than when he found it. I hope you Gill critics out there will recognize his recruiting prowess when we are successful with his players the next few years.

I wish Coach Gill the best wherever he goes, and I hope he finds a school where the fan base appreciates him. He was a good mentor for our football players and an example for others to follow.

Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

His first year, he was able to keep all of MM's recruits. His Second year (technically his first), he did a good job of recruiting, one of KU's best classes, but also had like 30 scholarships available. It should be noted that the two best recruits he was unable to get onto the practice field consistently. His Third year (and truly his true test) he had about 15 scholarships, as of this week, he had fulfilled only 7 of those scholarships. Two people had decommitted, and only one of those players is a defensive player. He had no one rated hired than a 78, which is a mid-level 3 star.

The recruiting wasn't as good as most people think it was, although it was decent. The problem he can't coach it and his offense is very simple.

Ethan Berger 11 years ago

Im going to be a jerk and say we have 2 defensive recruits. But when did the corner from florida d-commit?

Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

Sorry to be a jerk back, but 7 recruits according to ESPN, 1 QB, 1 TE, 1 OG, and 1 DE. There are 3 Athletes, that I guess could be defensive. Again someone might be a TE in HS, but play defense in college, but my point still stands. Only one person was playing defense and recruited as defense.

As for when they decommitted, I'm not sure. I know LJW did an article, it seemed like it was late October. There were two of them, I think one said he was opening his options and wasn't fully committed, whereas the other one decommitted and committed somewhere else.

hammerhawk 11 years ago

I for one, am ready for ANOTHER outstanding basketball season. Got to get rid of a bad taste in my mouth from all this losing the FB team has done the last couple of years. Put the names back on the jersey's and let's move on Jayhawkers!

sevenyearhawk 11 years ago

Don't hold your breath on basketball ...

Randy Bombardier 11 years ago

Retain Mitchel! Whatever you do, keep Reggie Mitchel!........did I mention Retain Mitchel.

DoubleEagle 11 years ago

Keep Chancellor Bernadette Gray-Little out of it this time.

Clarence Haynes 11 years ago

You do not know what you are talking about!

John Randall 11 years ago

Nor do you (know of which you speak).

Being politically correct at all costs is simply bigotry in reverse ... and even worse in terms of productivity.

ZDKC 11 years ago

cshjhawk = BGL relative obviously

patkindle 11 years ago

if you feel sorry for turner gill give me his 6 million bucks and feel sorry for me

he has nothing to worry about the rest of his life how ever honorable, and what a great person his is, he is not a football coach,

he speaks well and has a great line, but we dont need cream puffs, and palsy walsies to lead football players

giving them a snicker bar is not how to build a football team maybe it would work with other venues on campus

turner gill has proven that, and it only cost ku 6 million bucks
gill is the winner, ku is the loser

Dennis Mahorney 11 years ago

Nothing against Turner Gill as a person, as He turned out to be a class individual, but who remembers the days when he was first hired and those of us who said He would not carry that half and half partial success from Buffalo to the big 12 let alone improve on it? Great Scott! what a roasting we all took back then....nevertheless best wishes, to a better man than me, good luck Coach Gill.

rockemchalkemrobots 11 years ago

Color me shocked that ahpernotgonnaworkhereanymore kept his account active for so long. There was a time when 2 weeks was a long time for mulazalum. Kudos to him that he lasted almost the entire TG era!

boknowssports 11 years ago

bottom line, turner gill owes a lot to Perkins for making him a rich man at the expense of the Kansas football program. How many people out there making say 50K per year get a raise to 200K per year? Well that is what Perkins gave Gill. So all the people feeling sorry for Gill, or that Gill did not get a fair chance can go pound sand! The dude got paid boatloads of money and did not cut it. End of story.

kUlosers 11 years ago

Actually, at the expense of the students and the university. They're the ones that subsidize your disaster of an athletic department. (Or do you just call it the basketball department?)

gardenjay 11 years ago

I have to agree with BannerForKirk. The fan base on this website is often crass, insensitive and as a result poor for recruiting.

What I recommend is, since I have a positive attitude, that all you all pay me $6million and I will go away.

master16 11 years ago

don't be stupid. Gill can coach, he's just not ready to be a head coach at a university that plays in a competitive football conference like the big 12. he just wasn't a good fit for KU.

TheGiftedOne 11 years ago

Fire Jordan Webb too. The kid just flat out can't play against Big 12 competition.

TBiggsRone3 11 years ago

You don't know what your talking about. Jordan Webb is a warrior with heart as big as Texas. Your fired.... armchair QB

ksballboy 11 years ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

who_said_it 11 years ago

If we can't get leach, I would look at the head coach at the University of Houston. Not sure if this is possible, but there you have texas recruiting ties, and a coach who has proven himself. Would Leach really want to come to the program we have right now? hopefully. Unfortunately it didn't work out for Gill, and I wish him well. It is time to WIN games.

Andreas Moeller 11 years ago

in any case a financially disastrous decision. I could think of a few things KU could do with 6 million.

Robert Brock 11 years ago

Now, can we get player's names on the backs of their jerseys instead of the itsy bitsy Jayhawks, unicorns, and whales?

del888 11 years ago

Only in America can you screw up so bad that you get paid $6 mil. to leave. What happened to the unemployment line?

actorman 11 years ago

It's too bad he wasn't a CEO of a company that lost millions. Then he could have gotten a lot more than a measly $6 millon to leave. Let's not act like football coach is the only job where you can get that kind of money for failing.

Marcia Parsons 11 years ago

I'm sorry he's leaving simply because I had so hoped he was the guy we were looking for to bring football back. Very disappointing that he wasn't and we have to start all over again.

vernlynn 11 years ago

Dennis Fanchino. He'll be KU for life!!! Kansas Boy. Learned his lessons at Alabama, and A&M.

Jayhawk2016 11 years ago

I'd like Dave Doeren. Former assistant head coach here and at Wisconsin, now at NIU. 39 years old and knows how to recruit for KU

boomrsoonr26 11 years ago

KU is getting lambasted for being a racist school and not giving him enough time like other eventually successful white coaches (I know they're just trolling)? Obviously I disagree. I wanted to see if any KU fans agreed that race played an issue with him having a perceived short "black" leash.

boknowssports 11 years ago

if anything, it played a role in him GETTING the job. His prior record (20-30) with only one winning season, certainly did not deserve a BCS coaching position, let alone a raise from 450K to 2 million. At most, he was a 1 mil a year coach. He was making more at KU than 7 of the B-12 (10) coaches, so you tell me if he was given a raw deal???

OldOldHawk 11 years ago

Racist school with an African-American chancellor. Interesting.

Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

I thought we were a big part of winning the civil if you want to read the Moe article from yesterday, where an african american supports raising the Quantrill flag, I would fully support this discussion on who is being uneducated about these types of attitudes.

ZDKC 11 years ago

bommrsoonr26: I would venture to guess that the level of education of people allegedly making these claims is relatively low. (Probably that level would be some high school.)

NOVAhawk 11 years ago

Gill was a class act. Mangino was a winner.

I hear Mangino needs a job.

squawkhawk 11 years ago

Mangina was a high school coach who was lucky Reesing came to KU. Without him Mangina was nothing.

Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

Last time I checked recruiting is recruiting...and not to mention he recruited Kerry meier as well, who was a decent QB, but not very successful. I must say people say all the time, if he didn't get this QB or that QB, he probably wouldn't have been that good of a coach...Fact of the matter is, he did get that QB.

With the logic you are using, Urban Meyer, better be glad R. Zook recruited Tebow, without him, I'm not sure if Meyer would have won two national championships at FU. Fact of the matter is the players are there to be coached. Some years you are going to lose the close ones, but you should be competitive.

Martha Oldham 11 years ago

I have a question. How many years does it take a coach to rebuild a football program and have winning seasons?

Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

According to the following 2 or less: 1) Snyder (2nd), 2) Stoops (2nd) 3) Saban (1 @ Bama and 2 @LSU), 4) Gundy (2nd) 5) Miles (2nd at OSU and 1st at LSU) 6) Urban Meyer (1) 7) Carrol (2nd)

Enough said.

johnnyphoton 11 years ago

At least one of them stands out as a brilliant taskmaster with generous donors.

actorman 11 years ago

No one expected TG to have a winning season in his second year. We DID expect him to show some signs of improvement, or even of life, in the program, and to not get blown out by 30 or more points in nearly half the games he coached.

And we DID expect the team to not be making the same stupid, inexcusable mistakes in his last game as they did in his first game.

Dale Stringer 11 years ago

Good luck in the future Coach Gill. I have to say this was what I predicted when you were hired. But I think you were the person to get the players over the previous staff.

Rick Arnoldy 11 years ago

Not to mention cerfews like they were little kids and no cell phones. If you want the players to perform like adults, treat them like adults.

Rick Arnoldy 11 years ago

Not to mention cerfews like they were little kids and no cell phones. If you want the players to perform like adults, treat them like adults.

Andy Tweedy 11 years ago

Anybody able to answer a couple questions for me? First, why are we still paying Mangino? He negotiated a buyout 2 full years ago, I would have assumed we were done paying him by now. And same for Perkins. He resigned, and for the life of me don't remember any talk of having to continue paying him. I'm sure I just didn't pay attention at the time, didn't think it would become important this quickly. Anybody?

Kirk 11 years ago

Mangino was paid a lump sum in 2009. We're not paying him. Perkins, I have no idea.

Though the monies may already have paid out in total, I'm sure KU is still feeling it.

Andy Tweedy 11 years ago

That's kind of what I thought with Mangino, and I even searched to see why Perkins would be still getting paid and couldn't find anything. The reason I asked is because I have read in multiple places that KU is now paying two coaches and an AD that are no longer with the university. That doesn't seem to be the case.

ZDKC 11 years ago

Per Matt Tait on twitter, Mangino is no longer being paid.

kUlosers 11 years ago

Bet kU students just love all the athletic fees they're forced to pay when they see millions go to their failed coaches every couple of years. Maybe Zenger will find a severance pay Groupon.

jartiv 11 years ago

lololol. Gotta pay for that boathouse. Where is my swimming pool Lew?!?!?!

ZDKC 11 years ago

Although your username obviously gives you away, I actually agree with the gist of your post. It sucks to pay millions for poor decisions that were made. (Mangino fire/Gill hire)

Also, thank you for your interest in KU Athletics

flyingfinn 11 years ago

On a grey dismal day this is truly a ray of sunshine. I have been a detractor of Gill for many months and while holding nothing personal against the man it was very evident that he just was not head coach material at this level and could not make any adjustments needed to be competitive let alone win. Hopefully KU will find the right man to right the ship and make football weekends fun again as we have been supporters for many years. Lets go KU and Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!!!!!

Jayhawk444 11 years ago

Anyone saying bring back Mangino doesn't have a very good memory. Go back and look at articles written around that time. Former players were coming out of the woodwork saying how bad it was to be one of Mangino's players. That's when I knew Perkins did the right thing by letting him go. When his own players won't even support him....that's not good. I think maybe Kerry Meier said something positive about Mangino while Reesing and other current players mostly kept silent. But many players no longer with the program - I want to say James Holt was one, apologies if I am wrong - said he mistreated players. We don't want him back.

And let's not forget Mangino's last season, either. Started 5-0, finished 0-7 with only 1 conference win, and that team had Reesing and Meier. I'll take my chances with somebody else, thank you.

Jayhawk1116 11 years ago

Get to work, SZ. We've got Illinois to compete with for a coaching vacancy now. They're a prettier date than we are. Put on the charm.

actorman 11 years ago

True. But they are in the Big 10, so what exactly is your point? If they're prettier, they're prettier; who cares what the reason is?

TBiggsRone3 11 years ago

I have a son that plays for the KU football team. Most you bloggers are truly idiots, racism had nothing to do with the firing of coach Gill. Obama has nothing to do with KU sports and being liberal has nothing to so with sports at all. But from what I hear KU is the most Liberal school in America. Coach Gill got fired because he couldn't win and lack of halftime adjustments. You compete with the best teams in the country in the 1st & 2nd quarter and you come out in the 3rd & 4th and you don't produce. You should have been fired. But people saying you need to rebuild, there is no such thing. KU has the players to win now they need a coach who can take that talent and produce on the field.

Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

I thought Cal-Berkley was always called the most liberal school in America.

I'd like to keep us as the best Party-School in America though.

Let's keep our priorities straight.

whitechocolate 11 years ago

Most of the published comments from players said they supported Gill and they wanted him to stay. Did your son feel the same way?

TBiggsRone3 11 years ago

No he didn't and I will say the players are saying that to keep the peace.

Al Martin 11 years ago

I can only imagine his frustration, putting in so much time and effort but not being put in a position to succeed. Thanks for sharing. And if you have any other information of interest, please speak up!

ZDKC 11 years ago

whitechocolate: Yeah most players said they supported Gill, but really, what did you expect them to say?

whitechocolate 11 years ago

If I was a 20-year-old athlete on scholarship, I'd probably say the same thing. I just like hearing other opinions, anonymous or otherwise.

JayDocMD 11 years ago

thanks for the post with your unique insight TBiggs

mikehawk 11 years ago

It amazes me the delusion of the KU faithful that goes something like, "let's get a big name coach!" Hello...this is a basketball school.. We will either hire another no name "up and comer," a retread not good enough somewhere else, or someone who has tarnish on their reputation. I remember prior to hiring Turner Gill, folks were clamoring for Tommy Tubberville (retread). I would imagine quite a few Tech folks would gladly give him over to us. Many there would take Mike Leach back in a heartbeat who is tarnished, but not outside our consideration of his hiring. He brings a little "outlaw/Elvis/mad scientist" to the party. Is the exact of opposite of classy, blueblood Coach Self. The press love him because he always has a quote and some of them will turn heads and cause the Chancellor and the AD discomfort while grabbing needed headlines. People forget the only national championship won by Oklahoma in the Stoops era was with Mike Leach as offensive coordinator playing with one great quarterback Leach recruited and a whole bunch of players left over John Blake recruited before being fired. But whoever we hire, we have to dig in and give them their five years to build the program. To do otherwise is not only expensive, but sends a message across the coaching profession (these people do talk to each other) that the KU crowd won't give you enough time to have a chance for success. It doesn't matter who you hire, you must have the players. Time will tell us how good a recruiting job Gill was able to do without the opportunity to develop them. That will be up to the next coach, whom ever it may be.

TBiggsRone3 11 years ago

You don't rebuild a program any more that is in the past. You reload... You bring in a coach that can recruit and use the talent on the team and win. Great coaches can change a progam as soon as they step on to the campus. In this time and era winning is everything. It is about what have you done for me lately. A good coach can take all that young talent on the Jayhawks and win now.

grisgris 11 years ago

Very true. There are some truly fine young men on this team. They just need direction. It is not unreasonable to think that within the year we will easily be bowl eligible and within two going for titles. We need to focus on strength training and think about replacing our quarterback. The team needs leaders right now on the field, too.

Jeff Coffman 11 years ago

Mark Mangino was the head coach of the OU National Championship Team in 2000.

ZDKC 11 years ago

I completely disagree with mikehawk's post: To keep it short, there's a reason the people in charge get paid the big bucks (head coaches, CEO, etc). There is also a direct correlation between head coaches and win success.

According to mikehawk, we should just hire some bum off the street, and pay him a dollar, but as long as we "give him time," success will just follow. You just gotta B-E-L-I-E-V-E.. what a clown....

ksballboy 11 years ago

Todd Reising head coach. Bill Whittemore offensive coordinator . They are the two best quarterbacks the NCAA has ever seen. I don't know why this is even a question.

beaujackson 11 years ago

Time for a sleeping pill & hit the sack.

Joe Joseph 11 years ago

Most of the anger towards Turner Gill really needs to be directed to Lew Perkins for crafting such a horrid contract.

Chad Hallack 11 years ago

Live flight tracking shows a chartered Cessna Citation XL departed the Florida Keys at 7:55pm EST en route to Lawrence Municipal. Mike Leach lives in the Keys... just sayin'...

Benjamin Simon 11 years ago

awesome, thanks. is anyone from the LJ covering this? will someone be at the airport when the plane lands to confirm whether it's leach?

Mangino_Maniac 11 years ago

Mangino lives in Florida too.... just saying. ;-)

JayDocMD 11 years ago

I believe Jim Leavitt also lives in Tampa.

KUGreenMachine 11 years ago

I know this probably has already been said, and I'm not sure KU will be doing it this way, but I am going to volunteer myself to coach at KU. Heck, I'll only coach one season. If I have a losing season, fire me. I know the economy is in a bad place, so for one losing season, I'll only make them pay me 2 million. You know what, fire me mid season, I'll accept a 1 million dollar buy out. Actually, screw it. I'll coach one game. Go ahead and just pay me a 200k buy out. I'll take it. I'd say that's a pretty fair deal.

KUGreenMachine 11 years ago

Ok, I'd like to offer KU a possibly better deal. Hire me for 1 quarter. 20k per quarter, and a 50k buyout if you choose to fire me. Wow, now that's a steal KU. I'll be waiting by my phone.

KUGreenMachine 11 years ago

Ok, final offer.. KU, please pay me 25k not to coach. I won't even step foot on the field. Win, lose, who cares, the next football coach search will be on! I'd say that's a tremendous deal as compared with paying 10 million to lose two seasons in a row! So hear me out, pay me 25k not to of the century!

11 years ago

It is really a telling sign at how short-sighted Sheahon and Gray-Little are ... and this will be their down fall when the dust settles.

First they give Gill really only 1 year. Last year he is just coming in trying to get things setup - new system, new coaches, different philosophy. His players are not even Big 12 caliber players - to be truthful. Not sure there are more than two (not even sure who they are) who could start for OU, OSU, TX ... Yet they (Sheahon and Gray-Little) plus a number of KU supporters feel Gill should have won the Big 12 this year ... okay win 2 or 3 Big 12 games. Nice but frankly unrealistic.

Now they fire him and they expect to go out and get a top name coach. The guy who wrote this article listed some nice candidates ... actually very amusing. Does anyone truly believe KU is going to get a top flight coach? If you do - let me know what you are smoking ... I just might try it.

Why KU is not going to get anything resembling a top candidate ...

UCLA - Neuheisel is gone once the season is over AZ State - Erickson is gone Illinois - Zook is gone Memphis - whoever they had is gone TX A&M - rumor has it he is gone UGA - very easily could be looking for a new coach Ol Miss - looking for a new coach Colorado - just might be looking for a new coach

Before January 1 is here there will probably be another 5 to 6 openings. Most of these places would be better than KU from a football point of view. KU has no tradition as a football school. They just fired a guy and really gave him 1 year ... and this is after taking over a guy who had one good year. Otherwise got beat by the Big 12 south.

Sheahon and Gray-Little would have been better off waiting one more year. Shows they will give a guy a chance. They would not have been any worse off - KU's program isn't in great shape. Give them time to get their fiscal house in shape - better shape. Shows they are willing to give a guy a chance. And would not be fighting some good programs to get a good coach.

For all you Gill haters you got what you want. But in the end I believe KU will be worse off.

whitechocolate 11 years ago

This is cutthroat college football. I don't think there's any job-minded coach in the country who looks at Gill's situation and thinks he got the shaft.

11 years ago

The tale to that story will come out if they can get an interview with anyone known and is will to talk.

They might not say it publicly but bet they are saying "two years ..."

alamohawk 11 years ago

KC being that you wanted to know what "we're smoking" I'll ask you the same. Have you not been following what is taking place in D1 College Football? In a conference that will probably send half of its members to bowl games this year 2 years is enough to determine if you have the right coach. Turner Gill is a nice guy that took a job that he wasn't qualified for, I don't blame him cause there is a lot of that going on now days. To be a BCS team in a BCS conference you can''t settle for 5 wins in two seasons. I agree it will be difficult not impossible to draw a big name to KU with limited tradition, but to settle for a guy that can't compete against the teams we've played the last two years is unacceptable at KU or any other school in the Big 12. Its sad as an Alum to see people who accept that KU can't compete and should settle for less because we have a good BBall team. Why can't we have both or at least strive to have both????

11 years ago

Two years is enough. LOL ... you jest.

Please tell me who on KU's team this year at the junior or senior level that could start (in other words were better at that position) for OU, OSU, TX, Ga Tech ...?

Tell me who out of the junior and senior class will be drafted (seniors the next and juniors next year) above the 10th round of the NFL draft.

Tell me do you truly believe KU's defense was not going to get ripped this year - given it was their 3rd coach in 2 years and the guy put in that position really wasn't an experienced D coordinator.

Sorry but I find your assertion to be amusing at best. Out of Mangino's last two recruiting classes 18 remain out of 48. None of these guys were "highly rated" at that. And your best defenisve player was a walk on - who is graduating.

It is one thing to make a change but under the circumstance the change was wrong. KU has not talent in the junior and senior levels to speak of. They have not D coach to speak of. And to add insult to injury we have an AD who opens his mouth rather than keeping it closed which is not good for recruiting.

Before one pulls the trigger one better analyze what is taking place and what the facts are. Mangino only beat the Big 12 south 4 times and 2 of those wins were against Baylor and 3 wins came during the magical season. Otherwise, Mangino was a doormat for the south.

In the NFL you can turn a team around in 2 years. In college football - 3 full years minimum.

Oh ... by the way what quality coach is going to want to come to KU anyhow with its rich (food stamp) football tradition? I think UCLA, AZ State, Illinois, Ol Miss ... all look a lot better than KU.

And for all of you football pundits who think you know ... go out and try to coach little league football for 2 or 3 years ... maybe even try middle school or if you have the guts go high school. See if you can get a team past the 50 yard line ...

Mike Hart 11 years ago

As for your 18 remaining out of the Mangino 48. You are forgetting the recruits Mangino had.. .who canceled their commitments to KU once Mangino was fired. I never wanted to see Mangino go, but if he did do some of the things he was accused of, then that's fine.. because our sports program have had enough black eyes lately. I was pleased with the Gill hiring. I thought he might be able to change our program.. and change it for the better. I will admit, through the 2nd half of this season... I became quite dismayed at our performance. Rebuilding is one thing... but this was one of the worst teams I can remember KU fielding.. and that's primarily due to our atrocious defense. Maybe 2 years was too quick to give up on Gill, but I think his ability to recruit was going to be hampered by his increasing LACK of success. We need to land a new head coach who can RECRUIT and who has a proven track record. It doesn't have to be a Rich Rodriguez type. I'd prefer someone up and coming... energetic.. hungry... ready to make a name for himself... and for the KU program while he's at it. All in all.. still makes me look back at Mangino with increased respect for what he was able to accomplish... regardless of his methods/tactics.

texashawk10 11 years ago

Half? 8 out of 10 teams are bowl eligible and all 8 are projected to be selected for a bowl game.

uneekness 11 years ago

You know who got Turner Gill fired? Bill Snyder. All the arguments you make - and everybody else in the typical "give him a chance, takes time to build a program, no good players left" camp - have to remember that Snyder came back to KSU with their program in no better (and possibly worse) shape than KU. And what has he done? Molded them in to overachieving winners? If you made a list before the start of the seasonow many of their top players would start at the OU's or TX's in the conference. Gill was in waaaaaay over his head. When you find yourself in a hole, you stop digging.

And yes, lots of coaches will be willing to take a chance here. The facilities are great, the pay is good, the fan base is engaged and craving a winner, having had a taste of it under Mangino. (There was consistently 40,000+ in that stadium this year, even though they knew the product on the field sucked. And if you think 40K isn't much, then you haven't been following KU football for long) The good ones relish the challenge. (As a basketball example of this, remember how ol' Roy said he didn't recruit east coast kids because they never passed up playing in the ACC or the Big East to come to KU? Then the first kid Self recruits is the top point guard in NYC, RussRob. If you don't think that's connected, you're not paying attention.)

Good riddance to HCTG. $6 million ought to be enough to dry your tears.

11 years ago

If you are a good coach where you going to go?

UCLA or KU? AZ State or KU? Illinois or KU? Mississippi or KU? TX A&M or KU?

There will more before January 1 ... KU's football tradition doesn't hold water.

Will agree KSU's winning had a lot to do with it. But I bet their junior and senior classes are much better shape that KU's. Would also suggest that their having a D coordinator whose been around for the duration has helped a lot.

uneekness 11 years ago

Take a look at the preseason predictions for 2010: Aggregate ranking is KU #3 in the Big XII North, KSU #5.

Now, here's the 2011 preseason (this year): Aggregate ranking, KSU #8, KU #10.

In 2009, KSU had two non-seniors across the All-Big XII First, Second and Honorable Mention teams. KU had four.

Preseason All-conference team, 2010: One KU player, one KSU player:

Preseason All-conference team, 2011: One KSU player, no KU players.

Bottom line: nearly the same talent, and low expectations, but Snyder gets not just improvement from his team but over-achievement. Turner Gill goes backwards with his. No need to see any more of it. Like I said, when you're in a hole, stop digging.

jayhawkfirst 11 years ago

Memphis??? I think KU is a better job than Memphis. UGA??? There coach is safe, 10-2 and a SEC East title. Colorado??? They just hired their coach last year. And what if KU kept Gill another season and fired him next year? What makes you think their will be any less head coach openings next year? What a worthless post.

Chad Hallack 11 years ago

I'm not a Gill hater and I usually stand by the opinion that a coach should be given at least three years...

However, having watched many games in the past 2 seasons... he has shown to be a poor game coach and even more lacking in preparation. You throw in the carousel at defensive coordinator and it adds up to a good guy that was in over his head. If we had even been competitive in more than a game or two per year I would say give him one more year.

K-State has very similar talent to KU. In fact, KU probably has more athletic talent overall except at QB. Bill Snyder, good coach, 9-2. Turner GIll, not so good coach, 2-10. It's really pretty simple.

actorman 11 years ago

KC, you're doing the typical thing that Gill apologists do: claim that we all expected him to win immediately. Are you really that clueless??? We didn't expect him to win immediately; we expected him to not have a team that embarrassed itself on the field virtually every game. We expected him to not have a team that was dead last in defense from the first game to the last this year and practically set a record for the most points and yards given up in a season. We expected him to not have a team whose offense ended up being nearly as bad as its defense. We expected him to not have a team that couldn't get to an important moment in a game without calling a timeout, and then usually ended up screwing up the opportunity even after the timeout.

In short, we wanted a coach that could show some signs, ANY signs of progress in two years.

Were you watching the same team the rest of us were watching?!?!?

Joe Baker 11 years ago

(Gill) will receive $6 million within the next 90 days. Zenger said the money would come from a redistribution of revenue streams — most notably the increased dollars from the Big 12’s new FOX television contract — and that none of KU’s share of the exit penalty that has yet to be received as a result of Texas A&M and Missouri’s departure to the SEC would be used.

Who makes this kind of decision without having a candidate in the wings. Zenger better pull a rabbit out of his hat and that rabbit better be able to coach. We may go from bad to even worse. I think one more yr would've given Gill a slight chance to show some signs of improvement and give the search process time to get a few candidates lined up to hire in the off season. They saw this coming, they should already have a few candidates interviewed.

hmm...I'll be very interested in who Zenger gets because the next coach will be on his head. You better watch your back Zenger because if you haven't noticed, you're in the hot seat now.

Geekinout 11 years ago

"KU has no tradition as a football school." Yeah, they haven't been playing it since 1890, use to carry one of the oldest rivalries, hasn't produced professional players let alone hall of famers... What is your definition of tradition? Winning championships every year? You are clueless and are probably like all the other self-defeatist that say "KU is a basketball school only." Good thing you aren't in charge.

grisgris 11 years ago

KU Athletic's Facebook is reporting, "Kansas Athletics has relieved four-man FB strength staff of its duties." as of 40 minutes ago.

true_patriot 11 years ago

I heard an intriguing suggestion earlier today - go for Sonny Dykes (LA Tech) - KU has to get a proven Division 1 coach or they're not going to be able to recruit. Sonny is now proven and is also able to recruit well from Texas.

Sam Constance 11 years ago

I wholeheartedly agree with those who say 2 years isn't enough time to turn around a program. Gill didn't get the amount of time that head coaches are customarily allowed in college or pro athletics.

That being said, there is an underlying expectation with that implied customary timeframe that a team should show some observable sign of improvement. Some indication that in spite of the losses, the team is putting itself in position to turn those losses into wins. Clearly Gill not only failed to show said signs of improvement, but a case could be made that the team actually regressed under his leadership. The problem, as I see it, is that Gill was basically having to learn how to coach big-time, BCS-conference, Division 1-A football on the job, and a program like KU can't afford to be a young coach's internship.

I think the following is true of most coaches, at least good ones:

1) They view their situation, ability to succeed as independent of every other coach. They won't be concerned by the fact that Gill was only given two years, because if they are smart, they can see why KU had no choice, and if they are competitive, they will believe (and likely be correct) that they can do better than Gill and won't put KU in a situation where they have to even consider the coach's job mid-second year.

2) They care about getting as big a contract as possible, especially if some fool AD is going to hand them five years for $10 million, but most of them will be reasonable so long as they are paid with respect to their accomplishments and resume. Clearly, Gill was overpaid based on what he had accomplished as a head coach previously. I think most coaches can look at Gill's firing and be much more comfortable with it than Mangino's firing, as it relates to coming to work for KU. At least Gill was told "you aren't getting it done as a coach, here's the money we agreed to pay you, now leave", whereas Mangino was forced out for less than the remainder of his contract value under threat of scandal and personal reputation damage. I think the way Perkins strong-armed Mangino out had far more of an effect on potential hires last time around than the circumstances of Gill's departure will have this time around.

3) They care about organizational support for their football program. They want to play for a school--even a recent also-ran like KU--that shows support and investment in their program. KU has done this with recent facilities upgrades, and the fact that they are paying a coach the full value of his contract to go away because he isn't being competitive shows a great deal of interest in developing a successful program. I'd argue that this implied interest/support in addition to the new AD will be a very promising to any coach who might see a school like KU as challenge or a puzzle to be solved.

(to be continued...)

Sam Constance 11 years ago


KU had no choice but to make this move. They had lost most (if not all) of the great fan support that the relative success of Mangino's tenure had developed, and keeping Gill would have just further eroded that support. I don't care how loyal a fanbase is, they have to see something positive, and the last time Gill's teams showed them something positive was in Game 2 of his tenure.

My personal favorite for the hire is Mike Leach. Texas Tech/ESPN railroaded him, similar to the way Perkins railroaded Mangino, so maybe KU can reclaim some sports karma there. Plus, Leach has an entertaining personality, is a smart guy, and was able win consistently at another also-ran in Texas Tech. Not to mention that a name like his would go a long way to regenerating some of the excitement about KU football that Turner Gill mashed into a bloody pulp. The thing about Leach is this: KU isn't going to get to the level of Texas or Oklahoma. A school like KU--that will always be in a sparsely populated state for recruiting, will never have a cache of a long-term, dominant football tradition, and has an elite basketball program to compete for fan attention--can't try to be a traditional football power. We have to do things differently to find consistent success, and Mike Leach is that kind of outside-the-box type coach that would be great for our needs.

On a related note, I can't believe all the Kansas fans protesting Leach, saying "we want a defensive-minded coach!". Would you really be unhappy with the kinds of results that Leach was getting at TT? Kansas having a reputation as the gunslingin', shootout team that rarely stops anyone defensively sounds just fine to me as long as wins are part of the package. Some beggars can't be choosers, as the old saying goes.

Regardless of anything else, I'm just happy to be remotely excited about something related to KU football for the first time in a long time.

PS - Bring back the jersey names. I know more "storied" teams go sans names, but KU is not a storied program and I, as a fan, have a much easier time of telling 11 identically-dressed players apart via name than some random number between 00 and 99. You are an insufferable oaf if you actually believe "true fans" are determined by knowing players by their jersey number.

PPS - Mangino got a raw deal and should not have been fired (for the reasons he was fired), but he was not the long-term answer at KU either. Bringing him back would just be another mistake to compound the original mistake of firing him when we did.

ahpersecoachingexperience 11 years ago

If you think I'm reading all of this, you're nuts! To many words, not enough pictures!

milwaukeeJAYHAWK 11 years ago

So.....there aren't enough pictures, according to many of the words?

actorman 11 years ago

I'm with you on Leach, marchphog, but it's ridiculous to compare his situation with that of Mangino.

Mangino had a number of people who claimed that he'd been abusive, including staff members and others at KU that were not football players. He had also shown other examples of his terrible temper, such as his run-in with a ref after his son's high school game and supposed calls to the police re domestic violence.

Leach, on the other hand, was accused of being abusive to one player, who happened to be the son of an ESPN broadcaster. There was never any corroboration, as far as I know, from anyone else, and no one else made any claims of him being abusive.

From a purely football standpoint, Leach would also be better than Mangino, because he would have some semblance of a clue of how to manage the clock at the end of a close game. As successful as Mangino was, he was one of the worst end-of-game coaches I've ever seen. He had his strengths, but he could have had a much better record if he knew what he was doing when it came to end-of-game decisions, and I'm pretty sure that Leach would be a big improvement on that as well.

I think Leach would be a great choice, and I would love it if KU got him.

Sam Constance 11 years ago

The comparison is valid on only a couple of points:

1) Yes there were people who came out against Mangino, but the ship on his fate had sailed the minute Perkins called an "all team" meeting without the head coach. I won't sit here and support Mangino for the things that were verified he did, but I also don't know if being an a**hole is a valid justification for firing a college football coach. It's no secret that the line between "abusive" and "demanding" is very fine and grey in big-time athletics. My completely honest take on how the Mangino scenario went down:

Perkins wanted Mangino out as head coach, I suspect because of "creative differences" (aka, both were hard-headed, bully-mentality guys that clashed personality-wise). Maybe the fact that Perkins wanted to appoint his own guy played a factor. Maybe Perkins had wind of some of the Athletic Dept. scandals on the horizon and was trying to deflect the heat. Who knows?

Given Mangino's Orange Bowl and the fanbase's wild support of him, Perkins was in a tough spot. Even the bad ending that Mangino had wasn't going to be enough to remove him without incurring some wrath from the fans. He got wind of a couple of unsavory behaviors from Mangino, and thought his recent on-field failures, combined with the fact that he was an abrasive and bullying kind of guy could be combined with those reports to bring Mangino down in scandal.

I got the feeling, as the scandal continued, that Perkins (and KU) was expecting there to be some sort of "smoking gun" revelation that made MM's removal a no-brainer. Obviously, nothing more than multiple accounts of his intimidating behaviors and abusive language came out, and Perkins found himself in another difficult position. It's telling that Mangino walked away from KU with $3 million dollars, when the fanbase was being led to believe that Mangino's transgressions were severe enough to fire him With Cause.

The fact that Mangino has said he'd be willing to come back, now that Perkins is gone, should also be revealing.

Like you said, the situations were much different--Leach didn't have reports of being abusive or a bully--but the fact that both men were forcibly removed for reasons other than the plainly stated ones is a shared factor.

2) The other way my comparison is relevant is in the fact that public perception categorizes the removal of Leach and Mangino as the same. Obviously, there are nuances and subtle differences between the two situations--some would even say obvious differences--but at the end of the day, they both fall under the "Abusive to Players" banner, whether fair or not.

All that being said, it is clear that Mangino and Leach are very different personality-wise, so I think the fears that were grounded in the reports and comments about Mangino's behavior won't be enflamed if we hire Leach.

milwaukeeJAYHAWK 11 years ago

We all know 2 years isn't very long to get a program in the right direction at least.

But to slide backwards with no signs of improvement.....does not engender faith.

Gill had to go. Don't feel sorry for him, he fulfilled his dream of coaching in a major conference and had a hefty payday. He'll be fine. Besides, he's into the Jesus thing and is probably not too worried about it. I bet he's taking it like a man.

Jayhawk1116 11 years ago

Two years was enough for Mangino to take Terry Allen's mess to a bowl game. It's enough time to display "improvement". That just didn't happen this year with Gill. They looked worse.

The same problems kept coming up. No adjustments in the second half, lack of creativity on offense, defensive players way out of position, etc. The coaches just didn't get it done.

Zenger and the athletic dept. surely know they were about to lose the fan base and ticket sales. They had to pull the trigger.

Gill is a great guy and I wish him the best, but it just didn't work out, and it wasn't going to work out next year or the year after that either.

Bee Bee 11 years ago

5 wins 10 MILLION BUCKS..... Run the numbers on that folks! Nice gig if you can get it!

stm62 11 years ago

Remember, two relatively unknowns were hired over two decades ago. One became an excellent basketball coach at K.U., the other became an excellent football coach at K-State.

AzNHawk 11 years ago

Boy oh boy! I sure did miss out on alot while I was out on Thanksgiving vacation in California.

I didnt get a chance to watch the KIU-MU game because I was out skydiving in the skies of San Diego, CA.

I'm finally catching up on all of the events that are going on with the KU football program.

I support KU football through and through. Through tough times and through good times. I even supported the Jayhawks as they had a disastrous 2011 season. Not once did I give up on my Jayhawks and always rooted for them even in the face of defeat.

While Turner Gill is no longer the coach I am sure he left some positive impact on this program even though it may not be through wins. You can argue all you want, a man of his character and integrity surely has to leave some sort of positive imprint for this University. Gill wanted to mentor kids into great men. I am sure he has accomplished that in some fashion here at the university of Kansas even though it didn't translate to W's. As for his recruits, many of whom were red-shirted this year I wish them the best and hope that they can adapt and learn the new style of football from whom ever the next coach at KU will be.

The next incoming coach will have young talent to develop and work with and hopefully all of them will fit into the style of football that the next coach brings. Gill recruited alot of running backs to fit his style of football and hopefully they will fit in with the new coaching staff.

AzNHawk 11 years ago


It does sadden me to see Gill go only after two seasons. Yes, they were not what we all wanted them to be, but I wanted to see what year 3 would bring along with a great defensive mind who would instill a defensive scheme that the kids could learn, practice, and repeat to the point of absolute perfection. I also wanted to see what Gill could do with a crop of his own kids. Alot of his kids in his first full recruiting class were red shirted. Only a select few were able to make an immediate impact.

All of us have varying opinions on the football program and each one of us is entitled to it. After the ticket scandal and ousting of Mangino I wanted KU to have a cleaned up image and Gill seemed like the perfect fit to help with that. He is a class act, presented himself with integrity and great honor. While his traits are very very admirable it did not change the state of the football program.

Unfortunately, the results on the field ultimately decided his fate.

I am sure that T.Gill has faced adversity before in his life before and he will be able to get through this change that has occurred before him. Whether it may be now or later on in life hopefully he will be able to build that football dynasty that he always talked about and continue to mentor kids into great men.

As for the players that remain on this team, I wish them the best in their fight against adversity. Some of the players lost their first coach and played for their 3rd-4th in X amount of years along with getting blown out week after week for 12 straight weeks. In life, there are things that we cannot control, but somehow we must learn to cope and deal. Hopefully, the kids will honor and keep their commitment to KU and continue to play football for the university with the new coach even if they were recruited by Gill and his staff in order to get this program back to having more W's than L's.

Rock chalk Jayhawk!!!

RockChalk26 11 years ago

For those who say Leach won't be a good fit, you are crazy! Just think of the recruits he can bring to KU. Texas is filled with football talent. I can't help but think that he can build a solid roster.

William James 11 years ago

The Perkins family better get a Christmas card every year from the Gill family, and Gills wife better bake a great pie. If she dosent know how, then she better learn.

Allan Olson 11 years ago

Players are down. KU fans are down. Program is down. Assistant coaches and staff are down. School's budget is down. While, Gill is calm, polite, respectful, and has $10 million for two years of doing absolutely nothing. Another big up yours from Lew Perkins.

Geekinout 11 years ago

I'm not down... I'm very up right now and think brighter futures are finally ahead for KU football.

Jamaal25Chiefs 11 years ago

You cry baby whiney ass bitchy KU fans got what you wanted. . . Yet ANOTHER buyout. . 10 Million Dollars between two coaches. . . Right when Gill WAS gunna have a good team put together. . . What do you expect the youngest team on the Big 12 to do, when we play the top rushing, and passing teams? Georgia Tech, Ok, Ok State, Texas AM, Texas Tech, KSU. . . .Baylor. . . All but one of our opponents is Bowl Eligible. . . 9 of them were ranked at one time this season too. . Most Mangino ever faced was 5 he lost 1-4 . . . So thanks KU fans, for taking the EASY way out of this, for being bitchy little annoying a**holes. . . .You make die hard fans like myself look BAD. . . I stood right next to Turner Gill, but you guys? Nope, you seem to think we are Oklahoma, or Alabama or something. . .

Jamaal25Chiefs 11 years ago

Hahaha. . No sir. I am a DIE HARD Kansas fan. . Thanks for making yourself look like a fool by coming to a conclusion that I live on my Mother basement, and I watch Star Wars. . I had no idea I was in a comedy show? . . My point was, our schedule WILL be easier next season, and considering we have 18 returning starters. . We have a lot coming back? . . Miller, and Pierson were Gill's players. . . We have a lot of talent that Gill brought in, and with Patterson coming back it can only get better. . How about Brock Berglund? I think he will start next season, he has much more leadership than Webb, and much more versatility. . . But uh oh, did Gill also recruit him as well? . . . Aww, I don't know how a "Bad" coach does it. . . Whoever we hire next has two seasons to have a winning record. . . If not then he will be fired. . Is that the philosophy around this University? . . . .

Sam Constance 11 years ago

Don't be so bashful. You're doing a fine job of making yourself look bad.

And I don't think most KU fans think we are Oklahoma or Alabama... it's just that we think we AREN'T pre-1980s KSU, which is about as comical as we've looked the past two season.

Tony Bandle 11 years ago

Let's review the highlights of Coach Gill's tenure at Kansas:

1] 2] 3] 4] 5] 6] 7] 8] 9] 10]

Steve Spagnolo of the St.Louis Rams should be available very, very soon!!

justinryman 11 years ago

Offense wins you games.

Defense wins you titles.

So if you want Mike Leach and his wide open attack on offense, sure he will win games. But no titles. He has never won a title with that offense and no defensive scheme.

The year Tom Brady and Randy Moss broke all the offensive numbers in the NFL, they didn't win a title. The years the Patriots did win, they had great defenses.

Oregon lost two games this year when teams actually had defenses. The PAC12 isn't known for their D's, not since USC won their last title. Look at the players on those D's when USC was winning games.

Green Bay might have a great offense this year, but look at what their D does week in and week out.

Mike Leach doesn't like defense, he likes his offense to get the headlines, put up a bunch of points and win games over teams he is supposed to beat. But he doesn't beat teams that are solid teams on a regular basis. And getting it done once every 4 or 5 years is not worth 54 points a game when you win and only 23 when you lose.

There are better coaches than Leach out there, sure they aren't out there putting their names in every coaching opening like Leach does ala Tommy Tuberville, but they are out there and hopefully Zenger does a good coaching search and finds the right guy for this program. Someone young that can build it and keep it and make it his.

Plus Leach has a lot of baggage, and I'm not just talking about his issues with one player at Tech. He's mouthy, he's a little jumpy when it comes to law suits, he's unrefined as a speaker he has no filter on his mouth and that will get him in trouble, not only with the press but the school and the conference.

average 11 years ago

The Orange Bowl year was an utter fluke all around. T'hell with titles, some wins and some fun-to-watch Saturdays even when we don't win sounds real damned attractive right now.

jhawkmt 11 years ago

So ends the Perkins era. THANK GOD! Hire a proven losing coach and look what you get. Hire a coach that is tough and wants and expects the team to win. If the whinny, whimpy players and their parents cant handle it then get rid of them and start over. In real life, you get yelled at, knocked down and life isnt always strawberries and ice cream. KU can have a winning basketball AND football team. We as fan should be able to be proud of both teams. ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK.

Travis Shinkle 11 years ago

Gill should have been hired in the first place: he had sub-.500 record at Buffalo. If you can't win the MAC you're not going to win in the Big 12.

Plus, Gill was waaaaaaaaaaaaay overpaid in the first place too: he was one of the top paid coaches of the Big 12! (source: He's getting more $$$$ than Gundy, Briles, Rhoads, Synder, Holgorson (WV), and Patterson (TCU).

KU had better go get a name, a winner, this time, otherwise I can't see the boosters nor the fans putting up with another two years like this...

How about Mike Leach? He went 84-43 and many of those wins was against Big 12 competition.

Or Jim Leavitt--he literally built a program from scratch (sound familiar) and won 6+ games 11 of his 13 years.

kennethst 11 years ago

People showed up at the airport???? Really????

Amazes me how much some people desperately need to get a life.


misfire 11 years ago

Let's see . . . we led at halftime against McNeese State, Georgia Tech, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Baylor and Missouri. We were tied at halftime against Northern Illinois and Oklahoma. We beat McNeese State and NIU. Looks like we need a coach who can get his team to finish a game.

LibertyHawk84 11 years ago

If you don't want any job pressure, don't take a $2 million per year job.

Bill Shaw 11 years ago

Hey, our football program is #1!!! (in costs, that is.)

2009 Mangino walks with a $3 million buyout. 2011 Gill walks with a 2 year total of $6 million.

$9 million in 2 years, doesn't that make us #1?

harleyjspoon 11 years ago

All that crap about Leach abusing players at TT is just that; pure crap!! He is a crazy man...the ultimate egotist...never played the college game...and he knows how to win football games...If KU wants to get to the upper echelons of BIGXII football again...and quick, they'll hire Leach and let him coach...and whatever they pay him to get him will come back to KU many-fold...

David Atchley 11 years ago

Chad Morris OC at Clemson has restored their program in one season...did the same at Tulsa, a player's coach, and he is the King of Texas High School football and has more credibility in the State of Texas for recruiting than anyone....Kansas can catch this rising star at the right time, and at the right price.

Andrew Washington 11 years ago

what happened to leach staying at the oread hotel?

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