Wednesday, November 23, 2011

UCLA guards: Counterparts just OK

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor gets airborne as he defends against a pass from UCLA guard Jerime Anderson during the second half Tuesday, Nov. 22, 2011 at the Lahaina Civic Center.

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor gets airborne as he defends against a pass from UCLA guard Jerime Anderson during the second half Tuesday, Nov. 22, 2011 at the Lahaina Civic Center.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self and players

KU coach Bill Self, Tyshawn Taylor, Elijah Johnson and Thomas Robinson talk to reporters following the Jayhawks' 72-56 victory over UCLA on Nov. 22, 2011.

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— Kansas Univeristy guards Tyshawn Taylor and Elijah Johnson combined for 36 points with seven assists on Tuesday, but it wasn’t enough to get overwhelming praise from the guys they went against.

“I think they’re just — they’re just polished guards,” UCLA guard Jerime Anderson said following his team’s 72-56 loss to KU. “They play solid. I’m not saying that I’m overly impressed by their games. I’ve seen them play for a long time. And I think that it’s nothing that we couldn’t handle.”

Anderson went on to say that he thought that Johnson played “really well,” but he was quick to point out that the Bruins could have played better defensively.

“I think for us and our team, it’s really never the other team and guys being that much more talented than us,” Anderson said. “It’s really about us. And we have to look into ourselves and figure that out quickly.”

Asked about KU’s guards, sophomore Tyler Lamb said: “They played a great game today and yesterday. The whole tournament. I take nothing away from them.”

Lamb and Anderson weren’t bad themselves, combining for 29 points on 9-for-15 shooting. They also went 5-for-7 from three-point range.

UCLA, though, went just 8-for-30 on two-pointers.

“We’ve got to get more of a presence inside,” UCLA coach Ben Howland said. “We’ve got to get someone to score in there for us and do a better job there.”

The Bruins were haunted by a slow start, falling behind 14-2 after six minutes. Their first field goal came on a three-pointer by Reeves Nelson at the 13:36 mark of the first half.

“We allowed their defense to take us out of any good shot selection in the first six, seven minutes,” Howland said.

The UCLA coach noted that KU’s top three players — Taylor, Johnson and Thomas Robinson — all played well.

“They’re a very good team. This is a very good Kansas team,” Howland said. “They execute. Robinson’s a very good player. Elijah Johnson really took it to us.”


ohmixmaster 10 years, 6 months ago

To begin with, what kind of a name is "Jerime?" More importantly "not impressed with their games" was good enough to beat your team to a pulp. So, Mr. UCLA guard who's name was invented by an obvious illiterate, I'm wondering exactly what impress you the anointed almighty? Your team losing by 40 points, how about 50 or even 60? Would you be satisfied or impressed then? Sorry for the rant, but what an idiot.

pizzaboy225 10 years, 6 months ago

you lost all credibility when you attacked his name and background. I know it's easy to do, and I've done it plenty, but it's completely irrelevant. We had a kid name Markieff whose mom worked at Dillon's...

Brianna Zaleski 10 years, 6 months ago

What? Who said anything about where one's mom worked? Except you. So working at Dillons is somehow a slight or a sign of a bad person/ backround? Based on your criteria, pizzaboy, you lose all cred too... This idiot called out our guards for being so-so. Which they very well may be and is certainly w/in his rights to an opinion. But you open yourself up to criticism when you do that. I mean, these two "ok" guards just dropped 36 on him and helped facilitate a 20 pt win, and he goes out of his way to say they are just average. I'm paraphrasing obviously. Lamb was the best player on their team and obviously the one w/ the most class. If you get routed, just compliment your opponent and move on. Its called class. And the whole team lacks it starting w/ Ben H all the way down to Jermie. What the hell is a name like Jerime anyway???

John Boyle 10 years, 6 months ago

What kind of name is ZIG? (sarcasm, just kidding)

KU_alum_2001 10 years, 6 months ago

I have to side with pizzaboy here. Zig, don't pretend pizzaboy's comment wasn't justified after ohmix's pointless, ignorant rant.

Marcia Parsons 10 years, 6 months ago

I think his name must be Jeremy. It's one of those unique spellings so many current-day parents seem driven to give the names of their children.

actorman 10 years, 6 months ago

I don't think his comments were that bad. Their guards actually played fairly well; it was the rest of the team that sucked. Besides, if you read all the comments and don't just focus on one or two of them, all he's really saying is that they need to play better, and he's right. KU played a decent game, but most of UCLA's players stunk up the joint other than for one 6-minute stretch.

Alohahawk 10 years, 6 months ago

KU recruited Josh Smith, UCLA's overweight and lazy center. Boy, am I glad we didn't get him. Perhaps Hudy could have performed one of her miracles on him, but I really didn't see any extra effort put forth by him last night. He just took up a lot of space. According to the gurus on the recruiting boards, if I remember correctly, he was a top 25 recruit, but I may be wrong. If so, it's a prime example that not every recruit merits their ranking.

Michael Pannacciulli 10 years, 6 months ago

This is a non story. Waste of time. Don't go making something out of nothing. The comments showed enough sportsmanship directly after a loss in my opinion, and countless others I am sure agree.

NebraskaJayhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

There's nothing wrong with what the guy said. He's just stating something that is a matter of fact. Compared to some of the teams in the field, we are pretty average so far this year. If you think this is a championship caliber team right now, you're sadly mistaken. Not saying they can't be either though.

chaggs 10 years, 6 months ago

I liked the article. I enjoy reading what our opponents think of us after a KU win. Usually it is a string of praise and it does little to motivate. HCBS needs to post this. Yeah, we likely won't see UCLA again for a while, but it would be a good motivation for whoever we play!

chaggs 10 years, 6 months ago

I liked the article. I enjoy reading what our opponents think of us after a KU win. Usually it is a string of praise and it does little to motivate. HCBS needs to post this. Yeah, we likely won't see UCLA again for a while, but it would be a good motivation for whoever we play!

Bob Zielinski 10 years, 6 months ago

The Bruins have a win over Chaminade and losses to KU, Loyola Marymount and Middle Tennessee.

The comments aren't that big of a deal but it sure comes off as silly and jealous when you look at the Bruins team and record so far.

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 6 months ago

UCLA really doesn't look very good. I thought for the most part KU didn't play that good and UCLA tried to creep back into it, but UCLA doesn't have the players.

I thought Robinson took shot some bad shots (how about a 3 with 30 seconds on the shot clock). Or how many times did he catch the ball and put it on the paint only to have a turnover. If the UK game was a learning lesson, this one was a huge one for improvement.

Give UCLA credit for eliminating the dunks, but that was about all they did right.

pgittemeier09 10 years, 6 months ago

but if he took the same shot with 10 seconds on the shot clock it would have been better? the timing on the shot clock has no bearing on whether a shot is a good shot or not. a good shot is a good shot, a bad shot is a bad shot

Scott Bonnet 10 years, 6 months ago

No. The shot clock absolutely affects the quality of the shot. Early in the clock, you're looking inside. As the clock runs down, you're looking for the best available shot. This is a little simplistic and other factors do enter into the equation, but the clock cleartly dictated in this instance it was a bad shot.

Marcia Parsons 10 years, 6 months ago

I don't know. I thought the highlight of the game was watching him try to keep up on fast breaks.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

"Win Forensics: KU Over UCLA Plus a Duke XTReme Cheap-Shotting Reminder"

~The joy on Bill Self's face, not his words, said it all in the brief post game interview at court side. This is another game feed that can be studied. But this one for positive reasons. This is the game feed you keep pulling out to show how this team is supposed to play, after you look at the game feed that shows the mistakes. This is the positive imaging game feed. This is the game feed that says, "Yes, you can play 70 point take what they give us as well as any KU team I've had, yes, you can!!!" This maybe the definitive game feed for clinics at Bill Self's Institute for Advanced Basketball Study." Why? Let me count the ways.

~We saw in this game for the first time that Tyshawn and EJ can alternate operating the team. We saw both players move seamlessly in tandem between the 1 and 2 guard roles. This seamless switching between origin of attack without fall off in skill is something coaches have the basketball equivalent of sex dreams about. This seamless switching happens about as often as Haley's Comet comes by.

~The greatest seamless switching team of all time was Eddie Sutton's UArk team with Sidney Moncrief, Marvin Delph, and Ron Brewer. Each player could take over a game from any of the three perimeter positions at any moment. And each could play the point. But this great Sutton team at UArk lacked a Thomas Robinson caliber big inside. So: this KU team has a chance to become the definitive seamless switching team, if TT and EJ can get it down first, and then Self can begin to integrate Travis Releford into the seamless switching game more fully.

~Seamless switching between TT and EJ, and eventually involving Travis, is one of the core strategies that can lift this team beyond its individual and conventional team abilities and help it become a dangerous JSOC (joints special ops command) team in March.

~TT, Tyrel and Brady last season could do this to some extend, but they lacked the blazing speed at all positions and the XTReme get-to-the-basket-boogie that TT, EJ and Travis bring.

Christopher Giordano 10 years, 6 months ago

Good stuff.

You can tell that Coach Self is having a blast coaching this team. This could be one of the best defensive teams Self has at Kansas.

This year is going to be fun watching this team develop.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

~Players require three qualities to play this way. They are:

1) players to have the physical tools to do it (these guys have it; no one guy is overwhelming but as a triumvirate they are potentially awesome);

2) players have to have the brains for it (Note: It takes three guys that can switch their minds from attack to complement and back again, from big picture vision running things to responding to same and fulfilling what the visionary sees from his vantage point of directing); and

3) players have to have a shared insight about when to to play which role.

The third quality is why this form of offense is rarer in college basketball history than fangs in a chicken.

Lots of guys have the physical tools to play both point and wing. Some guys have the brains to play both. But very, very, very few guys show the insight and self-discipline needed to know when to switch among these roles in real time. And, finally, it is the rarest thing of all to have 3 of them on the team at the same time.

~Self is going at this vision in his usual methodical way, multi-taking, woman like way combined with his usual fatherly swings between patience and fury. This team is getting the Full Self, a psychological wrestling hold, where he is a demanding, nagging mother/wife and a patient but tough taskmaster father/husband.

TT and EJ are being given the game time to work out their kinks at playing this most sophisticated game of catch possible on a basketball floor. And its tough to play, because at this age most impact players want the ball when it is time for action.

Dirk Medema 10 years, 6 months ago

Translation - "I'm pretty p.o.'d at myself and team for playing with our heads firmly planted in the dark for all but about 2 minutes of the game."

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

TT and EJ are not accomplished yet and no one should expect them to be, because they don't grow up watching the game being played this way. Though it can look like AAU ball at times, because of its appearance of spontaneity, it is highly sophisticated. Self doesn't just have this bunch running hi-lo, some pick roll and some isolations and weaves this season. I saw some Triangle, I saw some back cutting, I saw some double picking on the ball for chrissssakes. This has to be the most complicated offensive play book being implemented at any time in the Self tenure...and he's got them implementing it in flipping November!!!!

But here's the thing...

TT and EJ finally showed in this UCLA game, this fourth game of the season, that they can do it about half the time before breaking down under the pressure of competition and reverting to mono-think. This has to be a large part of why Self was so, so happy.

~Mono-think is where most human beings operate. Accept role. Learn role. Get better at role. It is linear. Put a mono-thinker in a mono-think role and accuracy and precision steadily increase to the limits of the mono-thinker's role. Impact players are often mono-thinkers with great athleticism and scoring skills.

~Duo-think is where some human beings operate. Accept two roles. Learn those roles. Get better at both. And become accomplished at switching. It is a binary logic. If A then role A, else role B. It is either or. Glue guys are commonly duo-thinkers. If open look, then shoot; else move ball. The 4 who swings out to the 3 and back to the 4 is a Duo-thinker in terms of roles, but he never has to make that decision on the fly during play. He just has to learn two roles: big and wing. But even that is very tough because of the diverse physical requirements of each role.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

~Triple-think is three roles and switch between them based on assignment. Travis and BRush have been assigned triple think. They had to be ready to play some 2, mostly 3, and some 4. But here again, this is more demanding in physical terms than mental ones. Most triple-think players are assigned one of three roles each time they come on the floor. There is no real time switching.

~Multi-think is what Self is asking first of TT and EJ and then eventually,if the scheme is to come to full flower, Travis, too. Multi-think is the hardest game of all. It is truly the basketball equivalent of the glass bead game of Magister Ludi. Multi-think means seamlessly switch among 1, 2 and 3 positions, seamlessly switch among origin of attack, to complement, from point guard to wing, and back again, on the fly, ultimately without Self calling for it. And to have the insight to recognize and make the optimal choice in real time.

~Self is paying TT, EJ and Travis the highest compliment there is Self Ball. Self is saying, "I believe you three fellas have at least an outside chance at thinking about the game nearly on the same level as I do...about the perimeter." They are still not being asked to see the game through the big man's eyes...yet. And it is uncertain whether seeing a game from a big man's eyes is humanly possible unless one is one.

~Self gambles on a massive scale here. If anyone of these three guys cannot do it, then the long term potential of the team is greatly diminished. If two cannot, then the team is destined to be not much more than a down the middle team capable of winning maybe 20-25 games, assuming no serious injuries. But if all three players--TT, EJ, and Travis--master multi-think by March, here is what happens.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

~Imagine a multi-think perimeter as one of the newest generations of Continuously Variable Transmissions in cars capable of simultaneously optimizing efficiency with little loss in power everywhere along the power band of the engine. A multi-think perimeter is constantly optimizing to take what is given in b~oth opposing teams' strategies and player match-ups. This may seem like what any Self team would try to do, but event he '08 ring team could not switch seamlessly among Chalmers, RR and BRush, or Chalmers, Sherron and BRush. The '08 team tended to originate attack out of the point and either RR, or Sherron tended to fulfill that role. What is in process with this '11 team is for the team to increasingly vary origin of attack each time down the floor based on circumstance. This is the ultimate in 70 point take what they give us. This is Red Clay Buddhism on hard wood being taken about as far as Self can take it. This is rig your defense however you want and we will originate from what ever you give us anywhere on the floor.

~And Self can gamble on multi-think perimeter play, because he has Naadir Tharpe who can originate out of all three perimeter spots, also, though he naturally struggles quite a bit right now, when outside of his conventional out front role. And when Conner comes in, while he lacks some of the athleticism required, he has a quarterbacks mind, and he has a trey gun that lets him originate three point offense everywhere, when he takes the floor.

~I only saw one time when there was conflict between TT and EJ over control. It was around 12 minutes into the second half. EJ waved TT off and insisted on controlling the ball. That is not the way the multi-think is played. TT has to be the ultimate "decider." It cannot turn into a power struggle. TT, for his part, showed he is capable of managing EJ, because he understood that in the moment, EJ was so fiery hot and so ego driven at that moment, that trying to stop him would do more damage than not. But you can bet that Self and TT will confer with EJ after the game and reinforce the idea that for better or worse, for the good of the team, TT has to have the final say. EJ's demand bid looked good, because the shots were dropping and he was better than his man. But that won't always be true. TT's the senior with the most experience. Never wave him off. Trust TT to know when to dish EJ the origination role. TT won't always be right, but the system requires some governor and because of his experience that governor is TT this season. EJ will be the governor next season. Same with Travis, as he is integrated in to the multi-think game. Same with Naadir. Conner obviously gets it already.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

~To some extent the team and Self have to make this up as they go. There will be mistakes. And come December, when Self begins integrating Travis systematically into the multi-think game, Travis may, or may not measure up. But even just TT and EJ mastering this kind of play will make this team vastly more dangerous than a down the middle team with TT and TRob running things.

~But enough about the perimeter already!!!

~TRob showed he can play a horizontal game and still be effective. He is fast becoming the second coming of Bill Bridges. Developing a horizontal game maybe a great, great blessing for TRob at this stage of his career. If his knee ever recovers its bounce, then coupling his old stellar vertical game with this incredibly savvy horizontal game that he showed vs. UCLA is going to make him a long term NBA player. And if the knee were magically to recover its bounce this season, well, then Self might as well fit TRob for a red cape, because he will leap tall buildings at a single bound, while hammering opponents horizontally faster than a speeding 50 caliber magnum.

~Jeff Withey seems like some kind of transmogrification relative to his years before at KU. Withey is a basketball player. It is as if someone, or something, took the basketball player from him for a couple of years, and then put it back in him. Despite his slim stature, maybe even because of it. he causes more shot alteration than any player who has played at KU, including Cole. Cole could come across the lane and block like nobody's business, but Withey has a 6th sense about altering shots "every frisking where." And he plays sound post defense, even against that tub of lard Fouland had running around. Kaleb was right not to come to KU if he wanted to start and play full time next year. Jeff Withey is going to own the post next season.

~NOTE: Coach K will probably take the game straight to Withey and Withey will likely get in foul trouble early, because of it. But fear not. Withey will learn a tremendous amount in the Duke game. Teams that go away from Withey are just empowering his shot alterations. Best to drive into him and draw fouls, and feed his man and force him to foul. His inexperience will make him foul. But over the course of this season, he is going to become Thomas Robinson's ideal complement, though Thomas does not know it yet. As long as TRob cannot jump, Withey's shot alteration enables Thomas horizontal game to flourish on defense, as well as offense.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

~But it is Justin Wesley that absolutely made me giddy beyond imagining. Justin had to play against everything from a wide body to mobile thin men, to the cro magnon Reeves Nelson, and he guarded all of them solidly. And he's just beginning to grasp that he could easily become a rebounder. This guy really may be the second coming of Dennis Rodman without the weird down stream. Justin Wesley increasingly not a stop gap, but the perfect piece coming off the bench for this team. He changes the dynamic completely, whether he subs TRob, or Withey.

~Kevin Young showed me a lot against UCLA. He showed me that he has to learn something very, very simple to become a very, very, very big contributor to this team. He has to learn how to defend his man away from the ball better. It is not lack of effort. He just is not used to the speed that big guys bring to squirting around back picks. KY will have this wired by late December. When he does, and so does not create defensive breakdowns, he just does an enormous number of good things otherwise. If he can fix this one defensive weakness, he has the stuff to become a 6'8" Brady. I mean the guy can glue like nobody's business. And his super mobility and quick mind make him able to help with picks and ball movement and help defense in a superior way. I really think KY is a find. If he were able to get a trey stroke down on the open looks, he would take this team to the next level as a 6th, or 7th man. He just has a ton of talent and a head to go with it. The head may be getting a bit in the way of handling the off ball back picks. Part of basketball is a head game. But part of it is just animal want-to. It is just seeing a guy going ahead of you, knowing you have to chase him around the pick and then catch him like a cheetah going after an impala. At a certain point in Self defense, you have to let your kill instinct take over. It looks like he's beating me over the pick, or under the pick, but I don't have to dribble and I can catch and kill. Instinct and brains. Brains and instinct. Both in total interplay. That is the still point of the turning world in basketball. That is the moment that all the players that optimize whatever abilities they have can stay in.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

~Regarding Duke: We can beat them on a good shooting night, but not on an off-shooting night. We ran hot for two exhibitions and Towson. We blew cold against UK. We were cool against Georgetown. We warmed back up against UCLA, or at least Elijah did. Conner didn't even shoot much against UCLA. EJ could have another decent shooting game before he hits an 0-fer. Conner's stats suggest another 0-fer. But you never know about Conner. And Travis is due. Against Duke, everything comes down to how well our perimeter can handle their perimeter defense, how much pressure our perimeter can put on theirs, and if TRob and Withey can stay in the game, when Coach K tells his players to take it hard to Withey and TRob. If our perimeter can handle the pressure and deliver some pressure, and our bigs can stay on the floor, then we're likely to win. But I don't know if the perimeter guys are ready to play against pressure defense an entire game yet, and I don't know if Withey can keep from fouling when they really begin to work him over. If the game is close the second half, the team that cheap shots the best and the most will win. I sense that Self has been implementing so much offense with this team that he will not have had time to work on cheap shooting as he did last season. So: since Coach Consonants works on cheap shotting from the beginning of every season, the edge has to go to the Kings of Cheap Shotting--Duke and its XTReme cheap shotting Coach Kdipshizz.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 6 months ago

Here's why we can win tonight: 1. The difference in talent among the top 6 players .. including Tharpe among the top 6, leaving out Wesley and Teahan .. isn't that great. It's the number of minutes played by the top guys that is most important. 2. We are getting better. 3. EJ to be bold, and assert himself as the top scoring threat we all know he can be. 4. We might have the best player on the floor .. TRob. 5. Duke has will be playing their 7th game in 12 days, as we heard many times. 6. Simple percentages .. time for Duke to lose in Hawaii (though I don't normally buy % arguments). 7. Defense, Defense, Defense. This teams' core strength among the starting 5. 8. Teahan is due for a 3 of 4 from 3 ball range game.

Here's why we can't win: 1. Foul trouble. Withey has massive fouls per minute. Wesley appears to be the guy that refs call for the cheap foul. And if TRob gets in trouble, we know the result. 2. Stagnant or disappearing offense. This team's biggest challenge. 3. We waste too many possessions with bad or quick shots. By the way, is that more evident with this team. Meaning that Coach Self talks about this a lot. But with the teams with more talent in the past few seasons, we seemed to always overcome it. This team probably can't vs. top teams. 4. Duke is better, top to bottom.

Best things from last night's game: 1. We won. 2. Defense was again impressive. 3. EJ. 4. Taylor did not appear to react negatively to EJ's offense .. meaning, he did not react by taking more shots, or trying to do too much. And he had 6 assists. 5. TRob lowered his number of less than smart plays .. I'm sure Self reminded him that his range, unlike the Morrisses, does not extend to 3 range.

And while we're usually waiting until February for the rotation to be set, the only tweak that appears to be on the horizon is a progressive increase in Tharpe's minutes as the season goes along, with higher minutes as needed when EJ or TT (or even Releford) are in foul trouble.

Ron Franklin 10 years, 6 months ago

Good Post--I share about all of these same thoughts. Naadir & TRob have had too many "less than smart plays" that have been complete momentum killers. I'm looking forward to seeing TRob stop dribble-driving, shooting past 12', and Naadir to stop that super deep Trey he likes to shoot at the most inopportune time

Curtis Stutz 10 years, 6 months ago

How do you even respond to a series of comments based on thinking Duke has better players? For shame

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

Has anyone else noted that KU's supposedly thin, under talented team beat the snot out of a UCLA team by 16 points on a neutral court, whereas KU's "talented" team last season only beat UCLA by one at the buzzer in Allen Field House?

Is UCLA way worse than last season?

Or is KU way better this season than people understand?

Or did we just get lucky with EJ having a hot hand?

I think UCLA is a better team this season than last. They seemed more experienced. They seemed deeper.

So: perhaps KU is a bit better than most have been thinking.

One other variable to consider. Self gave last year's club no help in pre conference. He made that team labor for every thing it got. He was in toughening mode with it all season long. This team he is treating with kid gloves so far and giving it lots of offensive wrinkles to help it along early. The big difference in scores vs. UCLA last season to this could just be that Self didn't help last year's team at all, where as he gave this year's club every advantage he could this season in order to help it along.

Robert Brock 10 years, 6 months ago

UCLA has not only lost, but has been mauled by Middle Tennessee State and Loyola Marymount so far this year to jump out to an 0-3 record versus Division I competition. Reeves Nelson has been a complete team cancer so far, Joshua Smith isn't in good enough shape to stay on the floor long, and the Wear twins are just not quite deserving of their McDonald's Burgerboy distinction.

Howland has a strange collection of players on his roster and KU probably could have blown them out by 40 - UCLA is probably not even a tournament team at this point. KU is exceeding expectations and making progress this year. Last year's UCLA team was really up for that game and Smith was giving KU fits inside and Honeycutt (left for the NBA) had a career game. Not the case this year.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

Good points about Middle Tennessee State and Loyola losses.

And about Nelson.

But Smith is just like last season and Micky Ds are Micky Ds.

Further the UCLA youth are highly rated.

And recall that everyone said UCLA was not a tournament quality team when KU played them last season, but turned out to be just that.

The probability is that this UCLA team will be in the tournament, also.

But they sure are struggling now.

Alohahawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Agree somewhat, but last year Honeycutt got on a roll and couldn't miss at KU, scored around 30 or so. (A problem that seems to happen quite frequently in the Phog: One opponent seems to hit everything he puts up, even if it's from Topeka or the county line). Honeycutt's next game against Michigan, if I remember correctly, he made something like 3 of 15.

As Bilas pointed out last night, there are many times when a team, not just KU, will play to the talent level of its competition. We played a good Georgetown team and played very good defense. Then, against UCLA, a mediocre team at best, we got a good lead and lost focus. Luckily, we regained our composure at the end. Both teams were still tired from having played the day before, 19 hours before for KU. KU's was much more exhausting having been against the Princeton offense.

Priest Fontaine 10 years, 6 months ago

Elijah, keep up the hot shooting, but please lose that under shirt. Such a bad look. Always has been.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

"ESPN Under Reporting KU as Usual: Enabling False Spreads for Media/Gaming Complex?"

Remember that KU beat UCLA by 16, in Maui and now will play Duke, as you read today's ESPN headlines copied around noon or 1pm est 11.23.11:

"Duke will play for Maui title | Against Kansas Bullock (23) inspires No. 1 Heels | Shoot first DA: Cuse police defy Fine records subpoena Orange's Boeheim reiterates support for Fine Mizzou clobbers Cal for CBE title | Unleashed Louisville holds Ark. State to just 27 points Lavin misses second game; St. John's wins No. 8 Tigers top Vols in 2nd OT | Still flawed Pitt avoids upset, holds off late La Salle rally Coastal Carolina (5-0) stuns Clemson at buzzer Rumors: Rivers-Curry chemistry is improving"

Hmmm. Two stories about Duke including Duke to start the list and Duke to end it. KU beating the snot out of UCLA, one of the nations premier programs, is not even noted. Duke clearly given top bill at the Maui. KU mentioned only after one of these "|" :-)

If you are a casual bettor, or even a frequent bettor, if you are anything short of a died in the wool better devoted to the statistical services and playing all the odds, do you think these headlines would encourage you to bet wisely on Duke vs. Kansas, or unwisely?

Do you think these headlines, and the stories attached to them, would make you foresee the most likely outcome, or do you think these headlines would bias you in favor of Duke and obscure the likely margin of victory?

In other words, do you think this apparent bias in coverage would enable skewed expectations and so skewed betting? Do you think it would enable odds makers to balance the betting public's wagers inconsistently with how the two teams will actually perform in the game tonight?

Do you think it will encourage bets on Duke at unrealistic odds?

Do you think sheep are about to get shorn tonight?

Do you think that if you knew this news bias was occurring and contributing to a bias in betting, and so a bias in odds making...well, do you think that having that knowledge could enable you to beat the odds in your betting? And do you think it might lead quite a few sheep to get shorn in their betting?

Could ESPN be colluding somehow with the gaming industry?

Or is this all just a coincidence of sports coverage seeking to attract the most eye balls? Is it just an East Coast bias in sports coverage by ESPN, or is ESPN involved in something kind of naughty?

Or something else?

I just can't be sure.

My anecdotal impression is that it goes on this way with portrayals of KU by ESPN year in and year out. Regardless of where KU is ranked by major polls including ESPN rankings, daily coverage seems to tend to underreport KU's successes and over report its failures especially relative to the levels of daily hype heaped on programs like Duke, which frankly, still isn't quite on KU's level as a winning program.

Isn't it interesting?

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago


I know nothing is truly new under the sun, that every con has been run before, but on the possibility that you missed my point, I will capsulize it in a hypothesis. :-)

Hypothesis: KU's successes are underreported and its failures are over reported, so as to create false spreads to help the gaming industry sheer sheep through distorted odds.

Note: this is only a hypothesis, not an indictment or an allegation, or a suggestion that I have insider information to suggest it is true. It is rather a guess. It is just an attempt to try to explain hypothetically what seems an anomaly at least to me. KSU for example is as equally in the sticks, as is KU, but all it takes is one good season and everything it does is hyped. Compare this with KU being among the most successful programs in college basketball history, and for the last 25 years, and especially during Self's tenure. it is so counter intuitive that KSU would be significantly hyped after only a season of success, but KU would be in effect under hyped after a century of success. Capice?

If this is old news to you, please explain in detail how the scam is done and how long it has been being done.

I suspect there are quite a few folks that would like to know about this.

I know I would. :-)

I've tried several hypotheses to explain the anecdotal tendency other ways, but keep coming back to this hypothesis as most intriguing.

But who knows?

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

What is big sports media's benefit, or quid pro quo, for promoting big gambling?

Or is odds making really just good old fashioned news? :-)

Note also: this hypothesis indicates no scam, or conspiracy against KU. Rather it indicates a scenario in which KU, and probably other schools, too, were simply being used as a means to an end.

The end, if there were necessary evidence to support it, would be to bias bettor expectations and in turn bias odd setting in order to enable certain actors to benefit from knowledge of those biased betting expectations and biased odds.


I don't know enough about the evidence that might be collected to know if the hypothesis is supported, or refuted by evidence.

I do know your doubt counts for naught, as doubt, so far as I know, does not count as evidence...yet. :-)

Ray March 10 years, 6 months ago

California is definitely "whine" country. It sounds like the grapes are a little sour this time of year "Jerime".

You might let them ripen a bit before picking then.

PS: Who spells Jeremy "Jerime"? His mom must be smart. She is probably from "Lerime" Wyoming.

Jeeveshawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Wow. After beating UCLA by 16 it sounds moronic to say that "its nothing they couldn't handle." Maybe if you win or at least give us a single digit game you can say we are no better than you.

Curtis Stutz 10 years, 6 months ago

Jaybate - I've been trying to tell you that the team this year is better than people have given them credit for. They really need to get the win tonight over Duke or at least the win over Ohio St though prove to themselves they can play with anybody. It might be a long conference season with a few too many losses as the bench is short, but the talent is there at every position. I love that KU has great athleticism at every spot

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago


The team is making a good case for you being right.

I am not sure it needs a win over Duke to support your case.

Beating Georgetown and UCLA proves the team has substance.

Losing to UK just proves that UK has a ton of talent and KU shot a lousy trey percentage.

KU needs to play a good game and challenge Duke, but I don't think anything but a blow out loss can hurt the team against Duke.

The Ohio State game in AFH does seem a key moment for the team to seize.

But with the developing talent this team has it is important to keep eyes on the Madness.

As with the '88 team, no matter how many losses happen along the way, no matter how damaging they may seem, all that matters is finding a way into the tournament, so that the team can have a chance when it is finally fully developed as a team.

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