Monday, November 21, 2011

Kansas football rebounding again

Kansas head coach Turner Gill walks off the field after falling to Texas A&M, 61-7, Saturday, Nov. 19, 2011 at Kyle Stadium in College Station, Texas.

Kansas head coach Turner Gill walks off the field after falling to Texas A&M, 61-7, Saturday, Nov. 19, 2011 at Kyle Stadium in College Station, Texas.


Say what you will about Kansas University football coach Turner Gill’s two seasons at KU, but it’s hard to dispute that Gill has become highly skilled at putting blowout losses in the past and moving on to the next game.

As the saying goes, practice makes perfect.

In 23 games as the head coach at Kansas, Gill has had 18 opportunities to show his resolve after a loss. Though some setbacks have been tougher than others to move on from — 10 of KU’s 18 losses during the past two seasons have come by 30 or more points — Gill, without fail, has emerged from the locker room following each loss with the same message.

“The question, as we all know, is how do you handle adversity?” Gill said again on Saturday after KU’s 61-7 loss at Texas A&M.; “We’ve had some ups and downs during the season, and now we have an opportunity to see how we handle this. Our guys will continue to go to work, our coaches and our players.”

Few bounce-back opportunities have set up as well as the one that lies ahead for the Jayhawks, who will play arch-rival Missouri at 2:30 p.m. Saturday in the season finale at Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City, Mo. In addition to being an intense rivalry game played in an NFL stadium, this year’s match-up could be the last ever in the bad-blood history of the Border War.

With Mizzou leaving the Big 12 for the SEC in the near future, at least a portion of the Jayhawks’ focus this week will be on handing the Tigers a loss in what’s likely to be their last Big 12 Conference game.

“Since we’re not going to a bowl game, I guess we’ll go in and look at this as being our bowl game,” KU junior cornerback Greg Brown said of the match-up with Mizzou. “We’re not gonna be playing them again, and we haven’t won against them the last few times. But going out there against them this time and getting this win would definitely be big for our team.”

Added Gill of potentially playing the Tigers for the last time: “I think it is what it is. Our guys know about it. I’m not going to have to mention it every single day or anything of that nature. But we all know what the significance of it is, and we’ll be ready to play.”

Gill, who could be coaching his final game at KU this weekend, said he thought his team still was fighting.

“Frustration,” he said. “But nobody has quit.”

Not all of the Jayhawks were so sure. Senior co-captain Steven Johnson, who will be playing the final game of his Kansas career when the Jayhawks (2-9 overall, 0-8 Big 12) take on Missouri (6-5, 4-4), only could speak for himself when asked if he thought his teammates had quit on the season.

“I don’t know. I hope not,” he said. “They’ve all been given an opportunity to play Div. I football, and if an individual is given an opportunity to play Div. I football, they have pride and self-awareness about what’s going on and things like that. … We’ve got one game left and we’re trying to make the best of it.”

Patmon to play

Gill said Sunday night that sophomore cornerback Tyler Patmon, who missed the A&M; game to serve a one-game suspension for violating team rules, would play against the Tigers.

In addition, seniors Jeremiah Hatch (center) and Tim Biere (tight end) both were listed as questionable. Hatch started at A&M; but came out late in the second quarter. Biere went through warm-ups but did not play in the loss to the Aggies.


Billy Derringer 10 years, 8 months ago

wow 10 out of 18 loses have been by more than 30 or more points, i would love to beat a dead horse but i think that line some sums up Gills time at ku, a total waste of time gezzzz!!!!!!!! ,

Mike Crosbie 10 years, 8 months ago

Rebounding....Ha !! God, I miss ESPN talking about the "Fighting Manginos" MM took the program from the toilet bowl to the Orange Bowl....Now we're back in the toilet bowl..."rebounding ?? I was mad then and still am...we should have never stopped "sawing wood" Now Lew is gone I don't care what it takes...bring back Mangino !!!!

Cmill1221 10 years, 8 months ago

This will be Gills final game. It will be official in December. That being said it would be nice to see him beat Missouri. Kinda like David Padget hitting the game winner in basketball a few years back. Hahaha

Sam Brockert 10 years, 8 months ago

Gray-Little? Oh that is right, you are not her...So I guess Zenger isn't exactly shaking in his boots.

hawk316 10 years, 8 months ago

I sincerely hope this isn't Gill's last game! How attractive would this job be for any other prospective coach who knows that if he can't turn things around in two years (not hardly enough time to bring in and develop recruits), he is gone? I don't want to go through another cycle like the one we've been in! We have to be patient and give Gill a fighting chance to recruit and develop those recruits.

Jayhawkintexas1973 10 years, 8 months ago

How attractive would this job be if we have another 2 and 10 season?

The only way we'll have a chance to get a good coach, is to fire Gill so we can hire them before they're hired by someone else.

If Gill is allowed to stay another year, the 2010 through 2020 will be the 1980s all over again.

Steven Jackson 10 years, 8 months ago

O.U.'s Defensive Coach, Venable, would be perfect for us. He's a winner!!!

Cmill1221 10 years, 8 months ago

Well, this is his last game. And recruit? This guy hasn't recruited any better than the previous coach and he is losing the ones he thought he had. He isn't recruiting at all. Stop the cycle yes!!! Stop it and get him outa here.

Billy Derringer 10 years, 8 months ago

if the kansas team was spotted 30 points before everygame we still would have a losing record, even if we would have scored double our total points in every game we still would have a losing record, now that my friends is down right sad and nothing left to say.

actorman 10 years, 8 months ago

Well, there is one thing left to say. Forgive me for spouting a cliche, but with rivalries you can throw out the record books. Okay, I don't believe it for a second, but boy, wouldn't it be sooooooooooooooo sweet if we could send off the tiggers with a loss to remember. And it sure would be nice to not have bootlicker come on here and crow again about how great his pathetic wanna-bes are. (And BTW, bootlicker, enjoy all the poundings you're going to be getting from Alabama, LSU, South Carolina, Georgia, Auburn, ...............)

hawk316 10 years, 8 months ago

actorman, "sweet" is right! A win against Missou would go a long ways in soothing the pain of this season. We can hope.

Ted Toulouse 10 years, 8 months ago

Gill: "...and we’ll be ready to play.”

Really coach? Really? because your admitted history has shown this not to be the case.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 8 months ago

" ,until kickoff. "

They left that part off.

Marc Frey 10 years, 8 months ago

As long as our defence continues to let teams score at will, we will not beat Mizzery,

Merrill Reese 10 years, 8 months ago

+1. I thought the exact same thing reading the article.

sheahoRn 10 years, 8 months ago

Oh boy, am I ever glad I'm here and not there?!? Looks like things are starting to get a little ugly based on the email I've received. The only thing I can tell you guy is what I said before. We will continue to evaluate on a week to week basis and make a decision after snorkeling. No, that's not it. We will continue to jungle zip line tour all week until the entire body of work is in. Crap! That's not it either. Ok, got it. We will continue to evaluate on a week to week basis and make a decision after the entire body surfing of work is in. Close enough.

Surfs up, sheahoRn

Bville Hawk 10 years, 8 months ago

Good work, hope you're having fun coming up with these SZ psueo-posts. Provides a laugh or 2 in a no-laughing-matter season of crappy football.

SCJayhawker 10 years, 8 months ago

REMEMBER NOVEMBER! BELIEVE! All very nice but what would be even better is WINS. Don't think that is possible with this bunch of coaches running the show. Turner, your only hope of survival is to dump your inept coaching staff and get some guys in here who can demand exellence! Get some guys who have fire burning in their bellys. If you can't find them then let me give you a wild, crazy suggestion - How about some from the HS ranks even. Guys who win and only win. Deener from Gardner Edgerton. Dreiling from Hutch. Desperate times call for desperate measures. The idiots you now have ain't got it. After loss after loss, week after week, its no big deal to these idiots. They, and your team have come to accept it. On the rare occassion these coaches have lost its almost like you have to put them on suicide watch. They hate to lose and they will do anything to not lose and never accept it. Thats the kind of coach you need, and you need to become!

Jayhawker111 10 years, 8 months ago

The definition of insanity.......Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.....

Get Webb out of there and try anyone else....

Webb has not got it done and KU needs a new spark...

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 8 months ago

at least with the coaching he would receive.

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 8 months ago

Remember Turner said it's not how you start, it 's how you finish and sheahoRn's comments about evaluating came out? Well since the two of those statements our offensive ranking has gone from the mid30's-40's to the 80's-90's and the defense has stayed at a consistent 120 out of 120 teams...Just saying!

boknowssports 10 years, 8 months ago

anyone who still thinks Gill is the guy, probably also served on the OJ jury....

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 8 months ago

Will they take prisoners "to" Arrowhead? Or will Pinkel and the players that have served time stay in Columbia?

Mike Crosbie 10 years, 8 months ago

boone county jail is adding a new wing for the mu athletic program

loyalforever 10 years, 8 months ago

I heard the game will be televised on court TV.

danmoore 10 years, 8 months ago

Who's gonna drive the bus now that Pinkel lost his license?

Mike Crosbie 10 years, 8 months ago

not only because we suck, but because you tiger fans are mad at KU for not wanting to continue the "CONFERENCE" rivalry....hey we do...but you left the conference !!!

troutsee 10 years, 8 months ago

On Saturday we have a very good offense against a horrible defense. On the flip side we have a mediocre offense against a fairly good defense. In the coaching match-ups we have a proven winner against a consitent loser. They also have a playmaker at QB and we do not have a playmaker at QB. From the fan standpoint, we have unbridled optimism against a resigned sense of hopelessness. Throw it in a bowl and stir it all up and you have the makings for another blowout loss. It will be interesting to see how many Jayhawk fans show up.

yates33333 10 years, 8 months ago

If you ever need an example of a left-handed compliment remember this opening paragraph:

"Say what you will about Kansas University football coach Turner Gill’s two seasons at KU, but it’s hard to dispute that Gill has become highly skilled at putting blowout losses in the past and moving on to the next game."

Beyond that it also says an ocean about Gill as head coach. I like the man very much, but he is a consummate loser.

kwahyajjj 10 years, 8 months ago

We've got the names off the front of the jerseys. Can we get the names off the front too.

Why is it that when our DB's got burned, there was no heated discussion about it on the sidelines?

SCJayhawker 10 years, 8 months ago

Exactly! That would require coaching. Coaching that demands excellence. The coaches we have, from top to bottom, don't want to coach - they don't know how to coach. They should meet that guy out on the field and chew his butt all the way over to the bench.

Robert Brown 10 years, 8 months ago

The low risk move for the AD is to keep the staff on for one more year. I know that may seem counterintuitive, but there are alot of factors to consider:

Are you going to find a coach who will with 100% certainty turn around the program? Getting an OC or DC from a good program is no guarantee of success. We are kind of in a Catch-22 situation.

I can't see the AD wanting to get into another contract that handcuffs the finances of the athletic department.

Firing a coach after two years will scare away potential replacements for Gill and anyone who is hiring will demand another onerous contract, which we will want to avoid.

Maybe someone like Leach of Leavitt want to get back so badly they will take a discount and negotiate a fair buy-out should the situation not work out, but ethically, you really shouldn't have those discussions untill Gill is terminated.

Everyone on this board thinks the KU football coach job is a great job. IT"S NOT! Even if you throw big money around, that will not convince someone to take the job when there will be more attractive jobs available at the end of the year.

hawksince51 10 years, 8 months ago

A dose of reality. All things considered, I agree Gill probably gets another year.

AzNHawk 10 years, 8 months ago


Your argument has been repeated numerous times by others as well, but probably gets disregarded more than considered or let alone read. I don’t disagree with your post though. The AD is in a tough spot and the “low risk” move that you talk about may not be considered low risk in the eyes of others.

If I’m in a position of higher power such as the AD I want to KNOW and consider ALL (REPEAT 100x: ALL) my options with pros/cons, advantages/disadvantages, and rewards/consequences. If all my options have to be presented in a powerpoint presentation then so be it. If I go with option A what are the pros/cons? And Option B? Etc. etc etc. The first/foremost and easiest thing would be to fire Gill. Simple as that. Zenger was quoted in an article a while back stating something about knee-jerk reactions and how decisions that are made in year X may affect decisions or results in year z.

In short, he probably meant that he is careful about making quick knee jerk decisions because of how it may affect and pan out in the long term. Gill and KU football is a prime example. Fire Gill now and how would that affect long term results? I feel that it’s a 50-50. You might find that up and coming coach or that big name coach who can come in and immediately turn this program around. Or you might get someone who may produce similar if not the same results as Gill. All in all, it’s a gamble and an unknown.

It’s kind of hard to find guys like Urban Meyer, who had winning programs at every place he ever coached - Bowling Green, Utah, Florida. Or you might find guys with winning records, but have left their previous programs with some negative image (Mike Leach, Jim Leavitt, Jim Tressel). Yes, those guys are winners and have more W’s and they do L’s, but with the negative publicity that KU received with the ticket scandal and Mangino I find it hard to believe that those guys may be fit for this football program. They might be considered if they interview for the position, but I’m sure their previous coaching stops and incidents will either be discussed or highly looked at.

Most of the posts on these kusports articles say nothing, but to fire Gill. Before I go spending millions more on another head coach (or up & coming OC/DC) or millions of dollars from KU alumni, I would want to review and consider ALL (repeat 100x: ALL) my options thoroughly (repeat 100x: thoroughly).

I know there are other options than to fire a guy after two years, but that is obviously the easiest. If Gill can sell himself to Zenger and present to him as to why he needs another year then I can see year 3 with strict stipulations and the possibility of a great defensive coordinator whether that be through Gill’s network or on the recommendation of AD Zenger.

gojhawx 10 years, 8 months ago

I disagree with "Firing a coach after two years will scare away potential replacements for Gill". Wouldn't a potential candidate see a Gill firing for what it is...removing what is a tremendous mistake? This program under Gill is NOT going through growing pains. And, anyone can see that this is not going to get better but only far worse if given another year. A firing in this case is NOT jumping ship too soon. I think any coach at the college level would see this and not think that KU just has unrealistic expectations.

Kirk 10 years, 8 months ago

Wait. Didn't Tuberville want to come to KU? He's a good coach whose resume gives any intelligent observer reason to believe things will move in the right direction for Tech.

Gill has to go after the season is over. There's nothing in his resume, nothing that comes out of his mouth, and certainly nothing on the football field to indicate that he will be successful here.

Fans get the joke. The stadium will be empty next year unless we replace Gill.

Robert Brown 10 years, 8 months ago

Read the message boards at Tech. They want to run Tuberville out of town.

Jayhawkintexas1973 10 years, 8 months ago

You don't wait until attendance falls below 10k per game. You make a correction so it never falls below 30K a game and gets back up to the 49K to 52K a game with 20K on the hill who would buy tickets if they added onto the stadium.

"Just Win Baby"

"A Commitment to Excellence"

A whole lot of fans at KU might not like Al Davis, and might be glad he passed away, but he was right. JUST WIN. That's the objective of the game, isn't it? JUST WIN.

Commit to Excellence, not mediocrity.

Commit to Excellence, will get "JUST WINS".

I'm thinking that if we had a guy like Glen Mason with this team, this year,

We beat Oklahoma (Iowa State and Texas Tech did!) We beat both Iowa State and Texas Tech. We beat Baylor.

All the while having the 2nd strongest schedule in the nation, with a young team. This is the best athletic team Kansas has ever had, but the worst coaching staff they've ever had.

There is not anyone at Kansas that would not call 6-6 tremendously successful this year, with as young as a team as this is. Glen Mason did better with players not as talented as we have now. Not even June Henley would start as running back with this group, but LT Levin might start as Full Back.

We have 4 db's in the NFL, three corner backs and a safety.

Talib, Gordon, Chris Harris, and Stuckey (recruited by Mangino).

All of them are making a name for themselves for the way they play.

These kids on this team have a chance to do the same, only if Gill is not here next season.

seattlehawkfan 10 years, 8 months ago

If they don't fire Turner after the Mizzou game I say we "Occupy" Turners' Office!!!

Phoghorn 10 years, 8 months ago

There are three Pastors at my church (no this is not a joke). One graduated from Texas Tech, one from UT and the third from aTm. This makes three times that I have wanted to show up on Sunday with my head in a paper bag.

bjejayhawk69 10 years, 8 months ago

It is not very attractive so that is one of the reasons you go after a Leach or Leavitt. Guys that other programs may think is a risk. Leach especially would be a jumpstart for this program both in the Big 12 and nationally. I have said it earlier it would be like when KSU hired Huggins - somewhat controverisal but gets KU great recruiting recogniton in Texas and some national media buzz.

Robert Brown 10 years, 8 months ago

The real issue with Leach when he was dismissed from TT was money and contentious contract negotiations. The Adam James incident was the catalyst to speed up the departure. He sued a university who is a fellow member of our conference. There is going to be a lot of pressure NOT to hire him from TT and UT. I believe we take orders from Austin.

Do construe my comments as being pro-Gill or anti-Leach? If Leach could elevate KU to where TT was, I would be thrilled.

Travis Shinkle 10 years, 8 months ago

"...somewhat controverisal..."

I don't know about anyone else but I don't care about 'controversies', I want wins, hire a guy that will win--preferably a crazyman (it seems that most 'crazy' man head football coaches are winning nowadays)

Shoot, this year I'd settle for a guy who can deliver a bunch of 20-point losses versus what has been going on...

Phoghorn 10 years, 8 months ago

Now for a serious comment. I see Coach Gill as being a big-picture guy. I think he has a vision for football at KU. Players like him, and so does just about everybody else who comes in contact with him. I am in complete agreement with him that we must promote a positive atmosphere at KU before we can become a perennial powerhouse. This is where Coach Gill's optimism is a huge asset.

That being said, I am just as frustrated as everybody else with the dumb penalties, misuse of the clock (Mangino frustrated me with time management as well), and blown coverages. But, before we just start randomly firing people, we need specific answers to specific questions.

  1. Do we have any strong candidates for Defensive Coordinator?

  2. How are Coach Gills QB recruits progressing? (no Berglund jokes please)

  3. Which coaches are lining up for the KU job should we decide to fire Coach Gill?

  4. How well can Coach Gill recruit after this abysmal season? He did a remarkable job after our 3 win season last year.

  5. Is there another position within the Athletic Dept. where we can use Coach Gill's skill set.

I actually think that Coach Gill could be successful with strong a strong team of assistant coaches who can handle the minutia especially once he gets his type of players in positions where he wants them. Yes, I am frustrated, yes I want changes, but I want it done in a logical and orderly manner. Just simply giving Coach Gill the boot at the end of the year may not be the answer. I am afraid that this would be analogous to benching the starting QB because the offensive line does not give him any protection.

Andy Tweedy 10 years, 8 months ago

1) We had what everybody said was a good one in Torbush, but he's gone. 2) Who knows. 3) Probably not many, but there's always someone who will want the paycheck (see Tubberville). 4) This recruiting class was going to be so small anyway that the haters will spin it as bad regardless. Something like 15 recruits will never rank very highly. 5) I wonder if his contract would even allow such a thing.

You are absolutely right bout his attitude and his big picture thinking, but he's lost so many fans and I'm sure boosters that it might be too late for that to make a difference. The football culture at KU sucks, and we never seem to be able to turn a corner and improve it.

Andy Tweedy 10 years, 8 months ago

1) We had what everybody said was a good one in Torbush, but he's gone. 2) Who knows. 3) Probably not many, but there's always someone who will want the paycheck (see Tubberville). 4) This recruiting class was going to be so small anyway that the haters will spin it as bad regardless. Something like 15 recruits will never rank very highly. 5) I wonder if his contract would even allow such a thing.

You are absolutely right bout his attitude and his big picture thinking, but he's lost so many fans and I'm sure boosters that it might be too late for that to make a difference. The football culture at KU sucks, and we never seem to be able to turn a corner and improve it.

AzNHawk 10 years, 8 months ago


I’ll have a serious chat with you. I could use a bit more seriousness rather than the negativity and jokes about Gill and the team. I too am a big picture guy and can somewhat relate to what Gill has in mind for KU football. I really like his optimism even in the face of extraneous circumstances. While it is an admirable trait to have, it does not change the current state of KU football. Big picture wise Gill talks about building a dynasty here at KU and he has been seen and quoted in some of his press conferences about not wanting to use KU as a stepping stone to another job.

The loyalty to KU sounds like it’s there. The next thing he’ll need is a good, supportive administration staff. Right now, I’m not sure how supportive of an administration he has considering the circumstances of the season. AD Zenger knows football and has been on the staff with Snyder and Kstate and at USF so Zenger may know and can relate to the highs and lows of football. The coaching staff has a few question marks, but I really think the defensive coordinator needs to be highly looked at. I understand that Shealy had prior experience as a DC which was probably why he was promoted after Carl Torbush left due to cancer.

Other things to help build a great program would be great recruiting, consistent (keyword: consistent) winning seasons, maybe a walk-on program, then shooting for a conference title, bowl eligibility, then maybe a national championship.

A walk on program would be great for those who just want that slim chance of returning a kick or running down field to make a tackle. The odds are usually against you when you’re a walk on, but Steven Johnson is a prime example of one who can work his way up to playing time and earning a scholarship. Walk-ons could also help with the scout team during practice for the first and second team. Walk-ons may not have much if any playing time, but they will still play a crucial role and add value to the football team.

AzNHawk 10 years, 8 months ago


Do we have any strong candidates for Defensive Coordinator?

AznHawk - Pete Kwiatkowski, Randy Shannon, Jim Heacock, Tom Bradley, Steve Russ are a few that I’ve heard mentioned.

How are Coach Gills QB recruits progressing? (no Berglund jokes please)

AzNHawk - Michael Cummins is a redshirt. I think he’ll compete for the job next season. Berglund still may be clearing up his legal troubles. Bilal Marshall looks good on video and is a dual threat. Seth Russell is verbally commited and is a dual threat qb for the class of 2012. I really think dual threat qb’s will make a difference in Gill’s run oriented system Jordan Webb hasn’t looked that much of a run threat.

Which coaches are lining up for the KU job should we decide to fire Coach Gill?

AznHawk - Absolutely have no idea. Randy Shannon wants to get back into coaching, but his record at Miami was OK. Like 28-22 or something like that, but his teams as a DC were ranked among the top in the ACC.

How well can Coach Gill recruit after this abysmal season? He did a remarkable job after our 3 win season last year.

AznHawk - Currently, we have 7 verbal commits. 1 Corner back Daniel Gray committed to Tennessee. I believe the staff has a lot of targets and have made offers, but none of yet to make a final decisions. More than likely most have just narrowed their schools down to like a top 3,5 or 10 type list.

Is there another position within the Athletic Dept. where we can use Coach Gill's skill set?

AzNHawk - Player development? Assistant coach? QB coach? Offensive line? He seems more of an offensive minded guy. He spent 13 years at Nebraska on their coaching staff. Even through the tough Bill Callahan era. I don’t remember what title he held though.

Robert Brown 10 years, 8 months ago

AznHawk- I appreciate your thoughtful comments. I been getting tired of the meanspiritied tone of the 'Fire Gill" crowd. I am more angry with Perkins for handcuffing us with the contract. Just compare Gill's contract with other coaches and ask yourself why did Perkins feel he had to do this.

Phoghorn 10 years, 8 months ago

To Rockchalk1990 and AzNHawk:

Good thoughts all around. Both of you have discussed the idea of retaining Coach Gill somewhere, should he be fired. I am wondering if this would prevent KU from having to pay Coach Gill to do nothing for the next three years. If his current contract would permit such a plan, we could retain him as a asset to our university.

Now for AD Sheahon Zenger's role. I think that AD Zenger's time at KSU working with Coach Snyder will be an asset here. In the late 1980s KSU was in a very similar position to KU. Coach Snyder is not a firebrand, but like Coach Gill, he is a man of class. It took a few years for him to rebuild the program, and I am hoping that AD Zenger has some insight from his time with Coach Snyder. This may have been one of the reasons why Zenger was hired, despite some fans chagrin that we hired a KSU guy.

AzNHawk: I second your ideas on incoming QBs. It is pretty clear that Coach Gill wants to build the offense so they can maintain long drives and keep the weak (for now) defense off the field. This was a reverse from Coach Mangino who had a clear focus on defense and special teams, but happened to pull a rabbit out of the hat with Reesing. Many of the games in our 2007 season were low-scoring affairs in which James McClinton and the defense were the dominating force.

As far as a walk-on program is concerned, it seemed to work for Nebraska. Coach Gill should have some experience with this, and I would suspect that it is on his radar.

AzNHawk 10 years, 8 months ago

Jim Leavitt built the USF program from the bottom up from like 97 to 2009 before getting fired for a incident and internal university investigation. Somewhere in between those years I am sure Zenger had some part of the team. Whether it be with the x’s and o’s or recruitment. Zenger was a part of two programs that were built up from the bottom so I feel that he can relate to Gill about some of these growing pains and defeats. Okay, so maybe some of the growing pains that Zenger experienced with USF and KSU may not have been as embarrassing or complete obliteration, but the point is losing is losing.

Zenger stated after the ksu game that he’d “Get this thing fixed.” That’s open up to interpretation and can be spun millions of ways, but considering my perception of Zenger and his decision making I think he’ll look at all (and I mean ALL) the options before coming to the #1 option that fans want – the firing of Gill.

Gill isn’t Zenger’s hire and considering the circumstances he may have to sell/pitch himself to Zenger not only with the state of the football team, but other aspects too in order to buy himself more time. Like the future vision for KU football, plans to fix the defense, organization structure, organizational changes, potential recruiting targets & classes, etc etc. If Gill can do this successfully and receive all the resources and support from the administration and have all the other pieces that go with building a winning football program then the CONSISTENT winning seasons may occur.

AzNHawk 10 years, 8 months ago

As far as the incoming QB’s are concerned, I think the dual threat qb’s will make a lot of difference. When the pocket breaks down for Webb he can’t seem to make any plays on his feet and either throws into double coverage or gets sacked.

A dual threat qb would definitely be able to sense this and make a run for it to gain some yardage or even a td. I truly think that once we see a dual threat qb this offense may look more impressive. I’ve seen some videos of Bilal Marshall and when the pocket breaks down or his receivers are well covered if he sees a hole in the middle he’s on the move and it results in some yardage and keeps the drive alive.

FightnMangino64 10 years, 8 months ago

How is that all of you forget about Bill Whittemore as quarterback? He lead us to our first bowl game in almost a decades and the first non Aloha bowl in 20 yrs. Mangino was an offensive coach.

Andy Tweedy 10 years, 8 months ago

Bill Whitemore is coaching somewhere if I'm not mistaken. Maybe he could be part of a future staff.

Andy Tweedy 10 years, 8 months ago

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think the comparison to NU's walk-on program isn't a good one. I think the comparisons to NU's walk-on program are more appropriate when you refer to the walk-on tryouts for our basketball team. I'm not disputing it might be a good idea, but I live in Omaha and Nebraska football truly is religion here. Not only is football not as big in Kansas, but there is another state school that gets its fair share of fans, esp. out west. While I'm sure there are plenty of kids that would like to play at KU, in Nebraska it's every kids dream to play for NU, and the coaches know that when deciding who to offer. A pretty good Kansas kid that will always get a scholy to a Kansas D1 school would be passed over in Nebraska because the coaches know they can invite him as a greyshirt or straight walk-on. Just my thoughts.

Phoghorn 10 years, 8 months ago

Good reasoning. I doubt our walk on program would be as successful, but I suppose it could be worth building. You are absolutely right about football not being a big deal in Kansas in general (especially compared with Texas and many other southern states. I can remember Coach Terry Allen having to tell the crowd to get loud when the other team is on 3rd down, not when we are on 3rd down. I always though that was evidence enough that KU, and to some degree Kansas, does not have a primary focus on football.

Andy Tweedy 10 years, 8 months ago

"Ups and downs?" Now that's funny!!! I wish I were able to remember the "ups" as well as our coach! I suppose he's talking about Iowa State and Baylor, but those were still losses. I totally realize there isn't much else he can say, but at this point aren't the words pretty meaningless?

danmoore 10 years, 8 months ago

There are valid arguments for keeping him as well as firing him and I have no idea where our AD is leaning. For all we know he has already made his decision. I have been on Gill’s side all season albeit reluctantly but if we suffer a blowout loss to mizwho it will be difficult for Gill to keep his job. Regardless of what is in our best interest, the outcry from fans and boosters may force Zenger to fire Gill.

boknowssports 10 years, 8 months ago

I am not sure what the valid arguments are for keeping him. By just about all measures I can think of this program is going backwards. Our record will most likely be worse this year. Our margin of loss is much greater this year compared to last year. I'm not sure our offense was even ranked as low last year as this, I could be wrong there. Definetly our defense is dead last in all college football and has been all season, yet this coach has not been able to come up with anything to fix it. Prior verbal recruits are de-committing. I can't see how we pick up anyone great this post season, given players know they will never see a bowl game under this coaching staff. For monetary reasons I would keep him if there was even a slight glimmer of hope Gill had us on the right track, but the facts and statistics don't lie. He seems to be in way over his head as a BCS conference coach. Remember, he has turned our team into a national joke by most of the sports outlets. That is all on him.

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 8 months ago

A serious discussion about Gill: -- I'll try Contract: 1) His Contract is as Head Coach of KU (specifically stated), so you can't put him in another position without negotiation. 2) His Contract if he is dismissed without Cause - Is payable in 3 payments, 30 days, 60 days, and 90 days after termination, so basically $2MM every 30 days. 3) All benefits end upon termination (like the Country Club dues and University Cars). 4) Two Clauses exist for Termination with Cause a) Detrimental to the University and b) Incompetency. --Personally he has shown incompetency on the field, and we should go after that, as a negotiating factor. Recruiting: 1) The first year he was hired, MM had a recruiting class and TG was able to keep the entire class together. 2) First year recruiting he was able to recruit around 30 players, some 4 stars, but the two top people he couldn't regularly get to practice. He I believe had 2-3 that were deemed inelgible, which isn't unusual. Some have seen playing time. 3) Second year recruiting he has around 13 scholarships and has only filled 8. Some players have backed out or threatened to back out of their verbal commitment. No 4 stars have been recruited this year, and only 1 defensive player has committed. Game-Time: 1) I don't think anyone would disagree that he hasn't been prepared in most games. 2) In-game adjustments have not been any part of his coaching style. 3) Poor execution on all three phases of the game. Some point to defense, others point to offense, and no one can argue special teams have been below any reasonable standard. Basically, if it was one segment you could make an adjustment in that coach, but clearly it has been all 3 facets of the game. Financials: 1) Approximately $6MM to release him of his contract, unless if negotiated differently (I beleive that there would be negotiations and he would leave with between $2.5-4MM). 2) 54000 people at $15/person per home game (about $750,000/game)*6 is about $4.5MM year. He will desimate the attendance like this year, when they were giving tickets away for free or half price and bring a friend for free on Groupon. My point is the financials will work out. Prospects for Coaches: 1) It is a BCS conference and coaches have egos, and they do think they could win. You can't tell me that if Bob Stoops took the job at KU tomorrow, he would outright believe that he would win. KU won't have a problem with suitors. 2) There are a lot of good names out there and would have success. 3) There would probably be a buyout of their current contract, for instance when Gill left Buffalo we paid Buffalo approximately $350k as a buyout of his contract.

KU will have a new coach by year-end.

Thomas Michaud 10 years, 8 months ago

While I understand about the "one more year" thought, what happens when the crowd at Memorial Stadium doesn't show? How does that bode for a budget or selling a program to a potential recruit, donors, or future coach? I was really hoping for the best with Gill, but considering that downward trend, you would hate to see what "one more year" would do. Even if you aren't coaching your own plays (as some have suggested over the past two years), you'd think a coaching staff could at least get them to compete and not make HUGE mental mistakes.

Would a new coach next season at least spark hope in the Jayhawk nation -- to show up to the games (even if the first is a loss)? Would a new coach be able to win over those who saw "their coach" get fired? Who would want such a job?

What happens to the recruiting class? Is there anyone to still get that would be a program changer? What type of team would take the field next season? Overmatched but disciplined? OR what we're currently seeing?

So many questions that only can be answered by purely speculative scenarios. I just wonder what really is going through each players mind at this point and if they're hoping for a change in management or if they want "one more year".

Randy Bombardier 10 years, 8 months ago

If Gill if fired now, we will end up with an unknown "up and comer". Truth is the "up and comers" are not unknown. The reason this one will be is because none of the true "up and comers" will be interested. Two years and out if I go to KU, a non-football school in a conference that nearly collapsed or I can go to the SEC, PAC, BIG? This is a terrible time to be having to replace a coach. And for the umpteenth time, you guys want to fire someone who has recruited one class that can trully be called his own and then he gets one season with them? Maybe the hiring of Gill was not the best in the world, but let's not compound the mistake. The patience that we give this crew will speak volumes when we are trying to get that big name. And believe me, there is no big name out there that will entertain the notion of coming to KU if we fire Gill after two seasons.

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 8 months ago

Assistants and up and coming coaches have egos. They believe they will win, just like Gill believes he will win. Believing it and actually doing it are two different things.

There will be plenty of coaches and/or assistants willing to take on the challenge. Especially when it means making a lot more money.

Kirk 10 years, 8 months ago

I want Gill fired so bad I can taste it. He's in over his head. It's time for him to get the hell out of here.

I don't think we necessarily need a "big name". We need a great coach. In b-ball, Roy Williams was NOT a big name. He was a brilliant assistant that came with very strong recommendations.

Not everyone deserves "time" to get his "own" players into the program. Gill has shown zero ability as a head coach. He is unable to articulate any clear idea of what he's trying to accomplish, and how everyone's going to get there. He speaks in rank generalities -- invariably. His alma mater didn't even promote him to coordinator, let alone head coach. That's a red flag. And he had only one winning season as HC in Buffalo.

His resume gives no indication that he has the qualifications to coach at Kansas -- a very, very challenging position that's not for the average football coach.

Finally his teams performances, their readiness (or lack thereof) says it all. No need to describe that here.

KU can NOT afford to keep Gill another year.

gojhawx 10 years, 8 months ago

No, I don't believe you...most coaching prospects would completely understand cutting your losses after these HISTORIC seasons of utter and nearly complete failure. There is no light at the end of the tunnel for a continued tenure with Turner Gill. I assure you that tunnel will only get darker under another year of this coaching regime.

actorman 10 years, 8 months ago

Intel, you're not living up to your name. I don't care if he's recruited one class or zero classes, or if he's using high school players. The team has shown ZERO signs of improvement or of even making basic adjustments. That's something that should happen over two years no matter who you're coaching. You should at least be soming SOME progress.

TG truly lost me at the end of the first half of the KSU game, when KU gave up that huge pass to a receiver who was open by a mile even though there were just seconds to go in the half. Then TG blamed it on player error rather than taking responsibility for the problem. If that had just been a one-time thing, I might have been able to live with it, albeit grudgingly, but that type of thing has been happening practically non-stop for two years -- one inexcusable breakdown after another.

No matter how many of your own players you're coaching, there is no reason that you should be coming close to records for the most points and most yardage given up in D1 history. I could go on an on, but if you seriously want to preach patience with this joke of a coaching staff, you're simply not dealing with reality.

Randy Bombardier 10 years, 8 months ago

I understand all of the comments. You guys make some great points. But now, it is no longer about Gill. What KU does now will be more about KU than about Gill. It is not about patience as though things were going to turn around. It is about appropriateness. I just don't think you fire someone after two seasons (unless they are on a year to year contract), now matter how bad they are. We average a new coach once every 3.3 years. Now is that because they are so bad, or have we historically been so bad because we like to bring in a new coach with a new class every four years. My thesis is that historically KU is only about 500 because we fail to see the value of long-term stability. If Fam had been the coach for the last 25 years I have no doubt that his winning percentage would be about.100 above what it has been during the same period.

We are like alcoholics saying "just one more drink" when we need to stop this behavior. We cannot continue to turn over coaches like this. We need to get someone good, keep them happy and stay out of their way. If we don't do that now, we sure as shootin' better do it next time.

I was hot when the whole thing went down w MM. On this site I predicted that Perkins would not survive it. I thought that there was some external meddling going on, that NU for one was blistered by the way we kicked there behind in Lawrence in '07. Then to get a Nebraska Man...I smelled a rat. I made all sorts of unprovable accusations and speculation. In other words, I was very emotional about it all. I am not going to do that any least to that level. If we end up running Gill out, so be it. But, if we end up with a winner a few years from now and some AD finds some asinine reason to get rid of him, I will come unglued. We absolutely have to have long-term stability.

AzNHawk 10 years, 8 months ago

Great points about long term stability and the average about the coaching turnovers.

Robert Brock 10 years, 8 months ago

If Gill is retained for another season then I will assume that anybody could buy game tickets at Hyvee for five bucks.

JhawkalumJB 10 years, 8 months ago

Yea, I must admit it wasn't a proud moment for me when my K-State fan buddy was teasing me about KU football tickets being the Groupon deal of the day ("Check this out, they can't get anybody to go watch your crumby team")

Geekinout 10 years, 8 months ago

If Gill is retained, I will be boycotting KU football until he is replaced. NO point in buying family season tickets to watch a thrashing every game. I went to more games than I thought I would this year and it's been nothing but disgraceful!

Kirk 10 years, 8 months ago

If Gill is retained, I'll know for sure that KU doesn't care about its football program.

Jo Ann Ortgies Stork 10 years, 8 months ago

Gee, to Geekinout!. Does this mean that if it was your son or daughter's team and they didn't win consistently---you wouldn't be there?.

actorman 10 years, 8 months ago

That has to qualify as one of the most bizarre comments that's ever been made on this board.

As much as all of us love KU, it's not the same thing as having one of our own children in the game. Are you saying, 1parkplace, that no matter how pitiful the team is, we should be forced to shell out our hard-earned money to go to games simply because we're KU fans???

Geekinout 10 years, 8 months ago

Seriously!?! I'm not saying your comment is off, but if my son or daughter were playing for a D-1 program I'd expect to see them play for free. Knowing how KU does with ticket scandals and price gouging, it actually wouldn't surprise me if I had to pay though. People running this athletic department have been failing for some time now.

741hawk 10 years, 8 months ago

I have a friend who tailgates on the FRONT ROW. You can imagine how long he's had tix and how much he's donated. He's pledged not to renew if Gill is retained. I typically went to 5 or six games a year. I went to one, but didn't go in the stadium.

manginodrh00lz 10 years, 8 months ago

I wonder why no one ever hired you as a journalist.

actorman 10 years, 8 months ago

The chancellor has nothing whatsoever to do with the decision; it's the AD's call.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 8 months ago

"You Make The Call"

A] Kansas blasts Missouri but game provides enough excuse to bring back HCTG.

B] Missouri scores 100 points, wins the historic head-to-head series but HCTG is let go.

PS. If Coach Fambrough had not passed away, this season would have killed him.

Funhawk 10 years, 8 months ago

Fun Jayhawk History – KU vs MU –November 20, 1971. Coach Fambrough’s first win over Missouri as head coach. Don Fambrough took the Kansas reins in January, 1971 when Pepper Rodgers went to UCLA.
Source: Lawrence Journal-World, Monday, November 22, 1971. Headline: Seniors Finally Whip Missouri By Chuck Woodling. At the pep rally Friday night, Steve Roach began to think about it. "I felt really funny," admitted the Kansas linebacker. "I started thinking how lucky I was and how fast the time had gone. I realized not everybody gets a chance to play college football. It's an experience I'll never forget." Roach, a 211-pounder from Raytown, Mo., was one of 18 KU seniors who concluded their collegiate grid careers Saturday against Missouri. For the bulk of them, the 7-2 triumph over Missouri was sweet indeed. They had never before beaten the Tigers, not even as freshmen. It was Roach who came up with one of the game's big plays. MU quarterback Ed Johndrow flipped a pass to tailback Jack Bastable, then Johndrow moved away from the flow and Bastable threw back to him. But Roach smelled it out and intercepted the aerial stopping a threat in Kansas territory.

minnhawk84 10 years, 8 months ago

Trivia: Ed Johndrow was an SM South grad who transferred to KSU after that year. In 1971 Under first year head coach Al Onofrio, Mizzou went 1-10. The next year they started out 7-0 including a home win over #1 Nebraska 13-12 and Notre Dame 30-26 in South Bend. Everyone hated Onofrio in 71; everyone loved him in 72, even though the Tiggers dropped the last four games.

Funhawk 10 years, 8 months ago

Fun Jayhawk History – KU vs MU –November 20, 1971. Coach Fambrough’s first win over Missouri as head coach.
Low game score but fun, last minute suspense: Picture caption: “Decision Made, Fambrough Stands Lonely Vigil" When Kansas coach Don Fambrough elected to concede a safety with only a minute to go Saturday, he knew the strategy could backfire. That's why he viewed so anxiously his team's free kick following the decision.” The picture shows coach in the foreground facing the field. In the picture’s background is a simple, electronic scoreboard showing 1:00 and the score of 7 to 2. The smiling Jayhawk is perched on top of the scoreboard. The view includes the upper half of the Campanile, rising above the scoreboard. “Those were the days.” The cool picture which you should see if you click here

Funhawk 10 years, 8 months ago

Fun Jayhawk History – KU vs MU –November 20, 1971. Coach Fambrough’s first win over Missouri as head coach. Look who came to the game from Columbia!
Try clicking here to go to LJW picture Picture caption: “Golden Girls — Adding sparkle to the MU band was this row of twirlers clad in gold and black. Here some of them perform with gold tinseled hoops before the Missouri band during halftime at the KU-MU game Saturday.” The black and white picture shows five smiling, long haired Missouri baton twirlers, clad in long sleeved black sweaters, white go go boots up to their knees, and sparkling, gold hot pants. Those were the days.

Funhawk 10 years, 8 months ago

1971 music to go with Fambrough’s first MU win, and the 1971 Tiger girls groovy gold hot pants: “Hot Pants” by one-hit wonder Salvage. This was one of the most requested songs of 1971 on WHB. “A-walkin’ in a hot pants…..a groovy little hot pants…”

“Hot Pants” by James Brown from 1971: “AAAhhhhh-hhhh hot pants! Hot Pants! Smokin’! That’s where its at! That's where its at!”

GoodbyeMU 10 years, 8 months ago

How soon we all forget that it was not all sunshine with Chubby..

2002 Mark Mangino 2- 10 2003 Mark Mangino 6- 7
2004 Mark Mangino 4- 7 2005 Mark Mangino 7- 5 Fort Worth (W) Houston, 41-13 2006 Mark Mangino 6- 6 2007 Mark Mangino 12- 1 Orange (W) Virginia Tech, 24-21 2008 Mark Mangino 8- 5 Insight (W) Minnesota, 42-21 2009 Mark Mangino 5- 7

Probably gets one more year to make it right and show progress -- not saying I agree -- but probably should get accustome to the idea...

Robert Brown 10 years, 8 months ago

You need to include the conference records. Other than 2007, Mangino never had a winning conference record, ever. That means he elevated the program from the bottom of the Big 12 to maybe 7th or 8th over his tenure. The Fort Worth and Tangerine Bowls were played before Christmas and were 7th or 8th in the bowl pecking order. The Insight Bowl was probably #6. In 2006, despite being bowl eligible, we did not get picked. Maybe that speaks to how diffficult of a job coaching football at KU is.

It is even more difficult now with a nine game conference season and one less non-conference game.

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 8 months ago

So bowl elgible in 5 of 8 years?

I don't think KU fans are expecting to be OU, USC, or Alabama every year.

I think KU fans want to be able to go to a bowl game about every other year, or 2 out of 3 years. We want to beat the lower teams of the Big XII (ISU, KSU (although good this year), TTU, Baylor). And than be competitive against OSU, OU, and UT (and soon to be TCU). With one upset of those teams about every other year.

Than hopefully steadily improve; however, we are talking about a 5-7 team going to a 3-9 followed by a 2-10 season. We anticipate losing by at least 30 (if we are lucky) and we are the bottom of the barrel in defense and closer to the bottom than the top in offense. Don't get me started on Special Teams, which Gill usually spins as the high point of our team (all I have to say is 53 yards).

I get sick of watching, which I love college football. I spend about 9-12 hours on Saturday watching, and I love watching the Jayhawks, but this has been brutal, especially when we don't make one in-game adjustment.

Kirk 10 years, 8 months ago

Just making KU halfway competitive in this conference is a tremendous achievement. Cheers to Mangino for getting us there. (How many have?)

Only a genius like McCartney or Snyder could ever do better.

actorman 10 years, 8 months ago

No way. Not unless SZ wants to have virtually no alumni donations coming in for the next year.

TG is toast.

Geekinout 10 years, 8 months ago

Wish people would wake up and realize this isn't about Mangino or his previous record at KU. This is about an incompetent Gill who doesn't know how to coach. Digging up Mangino stuff does nothing, but grovel in the past.

JayHawkFanToo 10 years, 8 months ago

Your numbers although correct are deceiving. Mangino inherited a program in shambles from Terry Allen. The players were mediocre, the facilities were probably the worst in the conference, budget was poor and attendance was pathetic. Mangino left the programs in much, much better shape than when he started Gill inherited a program two years removed from the Orange Bowl and a final 7 ranking, the facilities were among the best in the conference. good budget and attendance was the best it had been in a long time. The programs is probably in as bad shape as it has been in a long time. the program has set all time records in so many categories...and not in a good way. Opposite teams, on the other hand, have set new records (in a good way) at KU's expense. Based on the current recruiting class and prospects, I just cannot see how this team will improve next season. Gill was hire based on one "magical-smoke and mirrors" season at Buffalo, even when he had an overall losing record on the MAC (yes, I am talking about the MAC). He was not ready to be BCS coach then, and what he has done in the last two season, indicates that he still nowhere near ready to coach at this level.

JhawkalumJB 10 years, 8 months ago

If Leach has any interest in coming here then sorry Gill. I want Leach at KU. He has been a winner at every program that he has been a part of. He would be fabulous! He was making less than 2mil a year at Tech. He is our guy.

His firing was all about the egos of the University leadership at Tech, they didn't want to pay the man what he was worth.

Leach is about accountability, for his coaches and his players. He wins games and graduates players.

If I were AD he would be my first call Sunday morning. I would roll out the red carpet for Mike Leach, his coaching resume is excellent. KU football would be legitimized immediately!

okiedave 10 years, 8 months ago

If Gill beats Mizzery, then he should get one more year. That salvages a bad season in my mind.

Kirk 10 years, 8 months ago

I don't like (or respect) MU enough to base KU's football future on one game result against them.

Gill goes regardless of whatever happens on Saturday.

JhawkalumJB 10 years, 8 months ago

I agree with you, but be realistic. We are 24 point underdogs. Has Gill given us any reason to believe we can even keep it close?

If we do pull out a miracle win then I will be patient and give Gill one more year. It ain't gonna happen though, no way. Even if he did stay he needs to clean house with his staff.

I wonder if he is given another year, is he tough enough to let people go and make needed changes? He seems too nice and passive to make needed changes.

Hire Leach as head coach, keep Gill as a recruiter, he's not totally useless just not a head coach at this level.

GoodbyeMU 10 years, 8 months ago

A comment was made that we need to not dwell on Magino or the past... true enough... but everyone post here like we are a FB powerhouse and that top coaches and atheletes are just beating down the door to get a chance to be at KU. I hold season tickets and go to the FB games... but I am realist in the numbers ... we are not a FB school... now may be we can be ... like KSU built ... but history is not on our side....

1983 Mike Gottfreid 4-6-1 1984 Mike Gottfreid 5- 6 1985 Mike Gottfreid 6- 6 1986 Bob Valesente 3- 8 1987 Bob Valesente 1-9-1 1988 Glen Mason 1- 10 1989 Glen Mason 4- 7 1990 Glen Mason 3-7-1 1991 Glen Mason 6- 5 1992 Glen Mason 8- 6 Aloha (W) B-Y-U, 23-20 1993 Glen Mason 5- 7 1994 Glen Mason 6- 5 1995 Glen Mason 10- 2 Aloha (W) U-C-L-A, 51-30 1996 Glen Mason 4- 7 1997 Terry Allen 5- 6 1998 Terry Allen 4- 7 1999 Terry Allen 5- 7 2000 Terry Allen 4- 7 2001 Terry Allen/Tom Hayes 3- 8

Geekinout 10 years, 8 months ago

What about the records prior to 1983? Or the records after 2001? We can't build a stable program because the KUAD keeps shooting themselves in the foot. I'm not expecting to land Urban Myers, but there's no reason KU can't find a reputable coach. KU has had some solid years in the past to have built on, but didn't...

jayhawkeratheart 10 years, 8 months ago

From the onset, when the decision was made to wear nameless jerseys, the individualism of the player went out the door. At that point in time the players had nothing to gain by playing their hearts out, simply because no one knew who did what, unless you had a program guide in your hand. Probably the single most damaging move on the part of the coaches to make that decision. College sports is about who you are, and how good you are. Point to be made, put the names back on the jerseys so mom and dad can see their boys play and be proud. It's like we're afraid to bring recognition to any one player, for some odd reason. School pride is based on individual performances, and you tell me how long the "Basketball School" would last if you take away the identity of the players. Nuf said

Charles McPheeters 10 years, 8 months ago

The underdog has often won this game. I will not bet on a blowout by MU. KS has played very well against some really tough competion. Gill, the coaches and especially the team should get the support of jayhawk fans

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