Friday, November 18, 2011

Tyshawn Taylor, Bill Self look to build off UK game mistakes

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor is smothered by Kentucky forward Michael Kidd-Gilchrist during the second half on Tuesday, Nov. 15, 2011 at Madison Square Garden in New York.

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor is smothered by Kentucky forward Michael Kidd-Gilchrist during the second half on Tuesday, Nov. 15, 2011 at Madison Square Garden in New York.


Playing No. 2-ranked Kentucky in New York’s famed Madison Square Garden — on ESPN, with various NBA players, celebrities and family members on hand — had Tyshawn Taylor a bit overanxious on Tuesday night.

“There were points in the game where I was sped up and forgetting plays, just kind of excited,” Taylor, KU’s senior point guard from Hoboken, N.J., admitted on Thursday. “The whole situation ... the whole environment ... such a big game so early (in the season). I was so excited.”


Bill Self weekly press conference: Nov. 17, 2011

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Kansas head men's basketball coach Bill Self addressed the media at his weekly press conference Thursday, Nov. 17, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Taylor blames himself for a second half in which the Jayhawks, who fell, 75-65, were outscored, 47-37. Most of KU’s offense came from Taylor free throws.

“I am the point guard. It definitely starts with me,” said Taylor, who scored 22 points off 3-of-13 shooting (15 of 17 free throws). He had 18 of his 22 points in the second half.

“We have to move the ball more. Defenses break down when you swing the ball back and forth. We have to be more patient offensively, and our shots are going to come.”

He said mistakes were evident in watching tape of the game on Wednesday night.

“This game was a learning experience for us. I’m not glad it happened, but it’s better it happened early so we can build on some things,” Taylor said.

KU coach Bill Self lauded Taylor for “trying hard and trying until the end,” in a 33-minute stint, but acknowledged, “what is frustrating is the way he had to score his points — by playing ‘take ’em’ and getting fouled (on drives).

“We’re not going to win a ton of games just by playing ‘take ’em.’ That’s not how we’ve ever done things. The ball has to move. The defense dictates who shoots it. We have to be patient enough to get Thomas (Robinson) a touch where he might have an angle. We just have to be patient,” Self added.

And “more aggressive” in moving the ball.

“Brady (Morningstar) is the best ball-mover we’ve had since we’ve been here. Marcus and Markieff (Morris) were great passers,” Self said of former players who led the offense a year ago.

“This team isn’t as good a passing team yet as that team was. We’ll get better at moving the ball. Guys ... we’ve been practicing for 3 1/2 weeks. It’s a totally different team. After Towson (100-54 win), everybody was thinking, ‘What a great passing team.’ Our assist to turnover ratio was 6:1 (30 assists, five turnovers). That’s not real. The Kentucky deal is not real. We’re somewhere in the middle. We’ve got to do a better job of running our stuff and running our stuff to score,” Self added.

The tape showed KU did play good defense versus (2-0) Kentucky.

“It’s a little bit reversed. The last couple years we were not the best defensive team. We knew we’d be able to outscore teams,” Taylor said. “This year, our mindset has to be different. We are not as deep as the last couple years. We have to be able to stop teams because we will not be able to outscore everybody.”

Self said the Kentucky game showed his players that, “we’re better as a group than we are individually. We have to become one, and we are not one yet. I don’t know any team in the country that’s one this time of year. I think we can learn from it, and our guys will be better from it. It’s a long season in basketball. I’m not discouraged at all because we didn’t win the game. I am encouraged in how well we guarded and understand there is so much room for improvement. This team has so much higher ceiling than it showed the other night.”

Off to Hawaii: The Jayhawks were to practice today, then fly charter to Maui, site of the Maui Invitational. KU will meet Georgetown in a first-round game at 11 p.m., Central time, Monday, at Lahaina Civic Center.

Self was asked if the team could bond on a trip to such an appealing place.

“To me, you bond through your team. You don’t bond by going hang gliding or surfing or deep sea fishing,” he said with a smile.

Yet he will give the players some free time in paradise.

“I do think the fact we’re going out there early, we get there and basically have all day Saturday. Saturday will be a play day for them,” Self said. “We’ll practice hard, but they’ll get a chance (to see Maui). Sunday it’s pretty much a business trip until Wednesday after the (third) game. After the game we’ll give them time off until we take off (for the flight home). They are going to get a chance to enjoy it. I always said if you want to have fun, win. That’s more fun than anything else. These guys know that.”

Recruiting: Andrew White, a 6-6 senior forward from Miller School in Chester, Va., told he did not sign a letter of intent with any of his finalists on Wednesday, the last day of the early signing period. He has a final list of KU, Texas, North Carolina State, Richmond, Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Cincinnati and George Mason.

“It’s still a pretty long list of schools,” White said.’s No. 56-rated player nationally is planning on committing to a school in coming weeks, then signing in April. His dad told that a decision would be announced Nov. 28 or 29.


kusportsdotcom 10 years, 6 months ago

Regarding Andrew White- is he a true forward? 6-6 isn't a big forward, especially considering all the bigs we'll have next year. If he's more of a wing/forward, would it be him, Ellis, and Releford battling for the 3 spot?

Oh, by the way. We need a freakin guard.

Robert Brock 10 years, 6 months ago

Ellis is a 4; he can't handle the ball well enough to be a 3.

Scott Murphy 10 years, 6 months ago

White is a wing player will play the 2 or 3. As for Ellis, he handles the ball just fine (a lot better then Releford) and will play a lot at the 3 but will spend some time at the 4 as well. Self has described him as a hybrid 3/4.

Robert Brock 10 years, 6 months ago

I have watched Ellis play many times against good AAU clubs and I have seen him struggle under pressure when putting it on the floor. He would have to really work hard to improve.

truefan 10 years, 6 months ago

White is a SF, not a PF. SF = 3 guard like Rush who was also 6'6".

Joe Baker 10 years, 6 months ago

White is Self's backup if Shabaaz passes KU.

Chuck Wagstaff 10 years, 6 months ago

If Tyshawn is this team's leader, no one is going to follow, and it ain't going anywhere anyway.

Bellator 10 years, 6 months ago

And Yoda was a little green quitter, ok we gotcha.

Mike Kendall 10 years, 6 months ago


Yoda was my role model. Don't dis him, okay?

HawkKlaw 10 years, 6 months ago

Tyshawn is the team leader. In fact, did a poll of the team right before the season started and they all voted TT the leader. So he is the leader, and they are following him.

Better luck next time.

Steve Yeakel 10 years, 6 months ago

Roy used to always have his teams peak in December, I prefer that they peak in March and April. Bill has his work cut out for himself this year, and I think we will see good improvement as the year goes on. I agree that it would be good to get another strong guard to come in for next year, someone who can be a point guard or a combo guard.

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 6 months ago

Didn't Roy have like 5 Final Four and 2 National Championship Appearances, in 15 years? That seems like in 1/3 of his years he was in the Final Four. I would agree there were some teams that left early, but I didn't see anything up there, that said let's dish on a coach that hasn't been at KU for 9 years.

lama 10 years, 6 months ago

For the record, four final fours in 15 years (14 tournaments). He never lost in the first round, lost in the second round five times, Sweet 16 four times, Regional Final once.

Jesse Johnson 10 years, 6 months ago

Right... like in '02-'03 when we lost to Arizona by 17ish points in the Phog in December or January, then beat them in March on a neutral court to make it to the final four.

John Randall 10 years, 6 months ago

Having lived through those 15 years, I wouldn't describe Roy's success in December as a "peak". I think his teams improved through the season, but a lot of other teams improved more and faster, and by March, some of them had caught up.

ku_tailg8 10 years, 6 months ago

I just wish, if you called yourself a guard then you would be able to shoot the ball. What else do you do on the playground? You can't always play 5-5 or 3-3 and look for the assist. It boggles my mind that these guys have such poor shooting strokes. Look at how QB's are analyzed. We analyze their throwing motion. Surely HCBS can see when a player has a poor shooting stroke and hence move on. They won't learn a new stroke in college. ALL guards need to be able to shoot from the perimeter, if they can't, then they have no business being on this team. You might not like Morningstar and Reed's athletic ability, but they knew who they were. TT doesn't seem to know this after 4 years. He isn't a high flier, so why not work on the jump shot? It's the easiest thing you can do as a guard because all you need is a ball and a rim. Apparently his AAU coach didn't tell him that. I love his desire but I feel this guy (not kid) should've been shooting 500 3's at every workout. I'm as white as they come and can't jump over a corn cob but I can nail a 3 and that's the type of player/team that always brings us down.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

The only part of The Legacy I dislike is this: each season fans pick out a player and say if this guy plays, this team will be no good.

Sherron. Brady. Tyrel. Now Tyshawn.

These guys were tremendous players.

Tyshawn has started for four years on teams that have won a ton.

See a shrink if you can't stand a loss.

Don't rain on a proven player.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 6 months ago

If anybody ever picked on Tyrel, then they were an idiot.

You could certainly debate the other three but, unlike the others, Tyrel always gave it everything he had.

JB..I truly don't remember anyone bagging on Tyrel....especially with Brady as an available target!!

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

Oak, Memory can be mistaken, bu Tyrel's freshman and sophomore seasons were merciless in my recollection. The rant went that his feet were too slow to ever be a D1 defender and he couldn't jump! Self had to recruit real guards because he couldn't do anything, but make wide open looks against lesser competition. These things were said every time he got a minute or two his freshman sea,son. And dissing on his lack of athleticism continued into early last season, when Self finally did him a favor and leaked to the public that he had a 40-41" vertical. Some board rats seem prone to type players superficially, then perseverate. Self likes unconventional players. More of Self's players are mold breakers than orthodox types. Naadir is an orthodox PG with slow feet on D. As with Tyrel and Conner, his feet will speed up. But some guys Self plays out of position, because he likes the mua they create playing out of position. And they appear unorthodox as a result, or they simply are unorthodox no matter what. Sherron was unorthodox. If you wanted his explosive impacts, you had to put up with some flaws in an unorthodox package. TT is not an orthodox pg; that is true. But Self wants that blinding quickness and so puts up with flaws and unorthodoxy to get it. At the very least TT is a proven, starter in D1. It is fine to point out flaws, but it is absurd to talk about him being a flop, or someone the team can't win with. The team had won big with him in various starting roles for 3 years!

Rock Chalk!

Kurt Eskilson 10 years, 6 months ago

Self has always known more than anybody about who he plays and why. For example (from above): “Brady (Morningstar) is the best ball-mover we’ve had since we’ve been here." Nuff said.

Robin Smith 10 years, 6 months ago

simply put, anyone who bashes Sherron Collins, Brady Morningstar, or Tyshawn Taylor doesn't know basketball and I don't care how intensely or stupidly they insist otherwise.

KULA 10 years, 6 months ago

Tyshawn's been on that list for four years now.

Ronnard 10 years, 6 months ago

The only thing Tyshawn has proven in 4 years is he is still inconsistent, still shows signs of immaturity, and still turns the ball over like his freshman years. Tyshawn is a good player, not great like Brady or tremendous like Tyrel or Sherron. Not because we loss...but because of how we loss and how its always been the same story with Tyshawn "The Turnover" Taylor".

We were supposed to lose that game; though we had a chance to win. But Tyshawn was supposed to look like a poised point guard and a leader.

KUbsee69 10 years, 6 months ago

Gosh, we shouldn't let stats & facts get in the way.

Benz Junque 10 years, 6 months ago

He had no OFFICIAL turnovers in the game, but just look at the picture at the top of the screen and tell me that this shot attempt isn't basically a turnover. He had FIVE shots blocked similar to this, most of which were completely ill advised shots that were totally out of rhythm in the offense.

Taylor was responsible for multiple losses of possession, even if he didn't get charged with an official turnover.

KULA 10 years, 6 months ago

Maybe that picture is one of the times he got fouled and went to the line and knocked down two free throws.

ku_tailg8 10 years, 6 months ago

I understand what you are talking about and thus it seems like he has been there for ages. TT may be a good guy (not kid) but that goes to waste each season. So why can't a PG shoot the ball or know his surroundings and pull it out. He is a senior! I knew this in AAU in middle school. Can't shoot and make good decisions? Heck of a PG resume to me.

ku_tailg8 10 years, 6 months ago

I understand what you are talking about and thus it seems like he has been there for ages. TT may be a good guy (not kid) but that goes to waste each season. So why can't a PG shoot the ball or know his surroundings and pull it out. He is a senior! I knew this in AAU in middle school. Can't shoot and make good decisions? Heck of a PG resume to me.

Displayhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

I thought I saw on Rivals that Norvel Pelle backed out of his commitment to St. Johns. Is there any interest by KU in him??? He is tall at 6'10", but kind of light at 210 lbs. Just wondering???

bradynsdad 10 years, 6 months ago

If any coaches or players read this site I just wanted to say thanks for your hard work. I love our jayhawks! I am really grateful we have been blessed with a coach that wins and does it the right way. Rock chalk jayhawks!!!

John Randall 10 years, 6 months ago

Did I miss something? "... thanks for the memories ..." What has ended that I didn't hear about?

Jack Wilson 10 years, 6 months ago

bville_hawk: You need to go back and re-watch the game. Stat, line, I agree, said 0 turnovers. The issue I think is not necessarily turnovers .. if we're playing fast, the point guard will have turnovers. It's the type of turnovers. As I said yesterday .. it was solely by the grace of God he had zero turnovers. Lazy one handed passes, falling down, mishandles, blocked shots that went the other way. I think more comments on TT are related to history, and what we've seen. A history of charges, getting shots blocked, out of control, etc.

Self's quote was the best here: “We’re not going to win a ton of games just by playing ‘take ’em.’ That’s not how we’ve ever done things. The ball has to move. The defense dictates who shoots it. We have to be patient enough to get Thomas (Robinson) a touch where he might have an angle. We just have to be patient,” Self added.

Self was referring to taking it to the hoop and getting fouled. The exact thing many posters were applauding related to TT's game Tuesday.

Do this . click on the picture above .. it gives a little wider view of the frame. You'll see two KU players trailing the play as TT gets his shot blocked. I don't know if they were really "open." But go back and re-watch the game and you'll see on nearly every drive by TT, if he would look to pass off his penetration, as opposed to looking to shoot, we'd have had a better scoring look. I really think it's that simple.

The guy has a major skill .. being able to penetrate sharply off the dribble. But he refuses to take advantage of it, choosing to try to be a scorer. In reality, his scoring opportunities would open up more if he proved he would pass first off the penetration. Opponents in scouting would respect that more, leaving him more opportunities, I would suspect. If I'm playing KU, everytime Taylor drives, my approach would be more about collapsing on him than shutting off the passing lanes (I think most coaches would say that you stop the penetration first .. then you have a choice .. do you stop the scorer with extra help, or do you shut off the passing lanes).

And I disagree with Jaybate above. TT is not a proven player, at least not in the way I think Jaybate is implying. TT has proven to be wildly inconsistent. Inconsistency is his trademark. He has more wild swings in his level of play than most starters, and it is more evident than other players because he's the point guard. You just don't know what you're going to get. We all know that, we've all watched him play. But he is a capable D-1 player. When we get the good TT, he's I think what Jaybate was implying. When we get the bad TT .. well .. we know.


John Randall 10 years, 6 months ago

Much of what you say is true, but while 'inconsistent' and 'predictable' may seem contradictory, they both apply to Tyshawn's typical possession.

I made a living as an undersized lineman in football by 'reading the telegraph' sent by opposing players. I almost always had a step or two advantage by knowing what was coming and could hold my own against bigger, stronger, faster players. I was the smallest lineman on the all-area team by over twenty pounds.

With all his athleticism, Tyshawn is too easy to defend because opponents know what is coming. When he puts his head down, just get in his way a little and depend on lots of help. I know his coaches have worked on this, but progress seems painfully slow - especially in tight situations where his ADD asserts itself. Not really a criticism, because ADD is very difficult to overcome and nearly impossible to eliminate for more than a few minutes at a time. Maybe sharing the 'point' duties more would mean better focus and attention at times when we really need him.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 6 months ago

(cont) We need the good TT. There was an terrific stretch early last season where he seemed to be a true point guard, looking to pass. That all changed (coincidentally or not) at the exact moment that Selby began to play. He then had a nice stretch at the end of the season where he was more of a scorer coming off EJ starting in his place.

But one thing is for certain. Taylor a big key to this team. There is no better replacement. There is no benching him. Period. He needs to play 30-35 minutes per game, and maybe more. We can analyze and critique his game. I do it probably too much. But I don't think the guy is going to change into a pass first point guard .. he would have done that already.

Perhaps coach Self can simply capitalize on what the guy is willing to do. Perhaps he can adjust his offense just a bit to play off of TT's natural abilities, and what TT will and won't do. That's coach Self's challenge. Sometimes, to win, you have to be willing to compromise your approach a bit. In this case, particularly with a senior that is the man with the ball in his hands.

But be prepared .. there will be games where TT is amazing. Perhaps stretches of games. And then we'll get the opposite sometimes. I think he'll come out and have a great game against Georgetown. If he gets going, he could be the spark that ignites everyone.

Jared Grillot 10 years, 6 months ago

I have to agree with this. It wasn't his turnovers (since there weren't any) but his shot choices, or the shoot first "take 'em" that HCBS referred to. Self plays patient ball through the big men, and that's always been the most valid criticism of TT, that he plays "out of control" and "sped up", as I constantly find myself yelling at the TV screen, "Slow down and run the *#@%ing play!" I also have to agree, all said, that I don't want him on the bench either. I think Tharpe has shown the potential to be a true, effective point - when he's ready. Not very many freshman come in ready to be floor general, so I didn't expect him to be ready. So Taylor is the guy. He needs to shed the "me first" part of his play that makes him look bad. Maybe it comes from wanting to prove that he's a 1st round pick, but it has generally sunk that goal more than help it. Again, have to agree here, don't know if that's going to change after all this time, but I think he's a "team first" epiphany away from being a fantastic player and high draft pick (assuming the league survives their current idiocy).

Jack Wilson 10 years, 6 months ago

"... but I think he's a "team first" epiphany away from being a fantastic player ..."

This is perhaps the most brilliant quote I've seen on TT.

He is a "pass first" epiphany away from being an NBA player, too.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 6 months ago

EJ and Releford must join .. agreed there. I think we'll see that improvement in our coming games.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 6 months ago

I too am concerned about TT "leading" the wrong way with Tharpe. I worry about that with any possibly negative influences. But Tharpe being a true point guard probably already has the team first mentality, and the attributes you mentioned of an old school point guard. Like our friend Aaron Miles.

Concerns about TT's inconsistency can be alleviated a bit if EJ and Releford step up. However, when TT feels like he has to be "the man", that's when there is a problem.

Saw your comment on Tharpe redshirting .. yikes .. can you imagine how thin we'd be then?

It's weird how the hangover from Tuesday is gone .. definitely ready for Monday. Excited to see how the guys rebound from what happened against KY, particularly TT. Would love to see 10 points, 4 of 7 shooting, a couple free throws, 9 assists, 2 turnovers.

centralkskufan 10 years, 6 months ago Georgetown supposed to be good this year I haven't heard much of anything about them? All I know is they are unranked and have played 2 games against inferior opponents and won easily. I wish this game didn't start so late I might fall asleep at my desk at work the next day. If we can get my Georgetown we should be able to beat UCLA. I would really like to see KU-Duke play, although if KU lost I'm not sure how I could handle losing to both Kentucky and Duke in consecutive weeks.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 6 months ago

I'm guessing the sun would still rise the next morning. It would just feel like a Monday. :)

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 6 months ago

We won't be playing UCLA in the second round if we win, we will be playing Chaminade...UCLA has lost 2 at home to Loyola and some other weak team. Chaminade is going to get to the second round.

Alohahawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Reeves (one of UCLA's better offensive players) has created internal (team) problems and has been benched. Don't know if they plan to bring him to Maui or not. Also, depends on how well Smith performs. He tends to foul a lot.

However, looking ahead and expecting to play a team (UCLA, or Chaminade) before beating another opponent (Georgetown) is never a good idea, especially with this year's Jayhawks. One game at a time.

John Sheehan 10 years, 6 months ago

TT's comments alone are more mature than what he would've said in the past. And he did battle until the end, which I liked seeing.

This will be a rare rebuilding year and not up to our standard. I'm confident they'll get better. They'll learn from the Kentucky game. No use talking about the past teams and comparing them, Jayhawk Nation will have to embrace THIS team and give them our support and trust Coach to coach.

That being said - next year's class looks fantastic already. We have a 3 (Ellis), 4(Peterson) and 5 (Lucas) with size, skills, brains and they're not OAD's IMO. Will also have McLemore at the 2. And I think we'll add a couple more top 50 guys and have a stud class of 3 and 4 year guys to go with Naadir, Elijah, Releford and Withey.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 6 months ago

I totally agree with STL_JHAWK.

I've been preaching patience based on what's going to happen next season.

Think of this season as going on a double date and you are the "wing man". No pressure to impress, no worry about committment, enjoy your date and if she is horrible, don't'll never have to see her again. And the next time, you'll meet your soulmate. :}

Please remember, every Division One program has missed the NCAA's in the last 20+ years except one......and that one is Kansas!!

centralkskufan 10 years, 6 months ago

and who knows even if she is ugly you might still get lucky.....

KansasComet 10 years, 6 months ago

Kansas is fine, things could be worse. I think it will be a good year to fly under the radar.

Joe Baker 10 years, 6 months ago

“There were points in the game where I was sped up and forgetting plays, just kind of excited,” Taylor, KU’s senior point guard from Hoboken, N.J., admitted on Thursday. “The whole situation ... the whole environment ... such a big game so early (in the season). I was so excited.”

Ok. So you made some mistakes learn and correct. Move on and win. He's a senior and I'm out of excuses for TT. The talent, experience and tools are there, use them.

ku_tailg8 10 years, 6 months ago

His shooting stroke sucks. Glad he stuck around to get his degree.

Displayhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Thank you konkyDong. I appreciate the info.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 6 months ago

Spoken like someone "who was there and did that"!!

PS just a travel tip from an experienced Hawaiin visitor to Maui...don't hang glide. You'll get freaked out by the vast number of sharks circling just out of beach swim range.

Mel Clare 10 years, 6 months ago

I myself served in the U.S. Navy and when in was the long island iced teas from Moose Mugillicuddy's!!!! Get loose with the moose!

Alohahawk 10 years, 6 months ago

+1 Especially midway through your last paragraph. Case in point: A brick is coaching Kenstinky.(Except, maybe switch the letter "b" for "p".)

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

Stability. Continuity. Excellence.

That should be the logo.

Curtis Stutz 10 years, 6 months ago

On past Kansas teams we've had too many people not willing to make something happen on offense. If anyone other than Collins was willing to initiate offense in 2009 KU holds on against MSU and probably heads to the final four. Sure Brady passed the ball in that game, but when you're the one with the openings the defense has given us, you've got to capitalize and produce.

This game wasn't pretty, but at least TT, EJ, Releford and Teahan were all looking to score. Along with TRob that's 5 players that want to step up and put points on the board when we need them. Throw in Withey who just didn't get a lot of touches but obviously showed his quickness and awareness are sound the way he defended the other night. The weapons are there to score this year.

In summation lets not get down on these guys and make them not want to take scoring opportunities by dissing them every time it doesn't work out.

Funhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Fun Jayhawk history – this date in 1986 – Source: Lawrence Journal-World, November 18, 1986. Author: Chuck Woodling. Headline: Tubbs Suggests Jayhawks Wear Helmets Against USSR. Partial article: Somebody asked Billy Tubbs the other day what advice he had for Kansas when the Jayhawks meet the Soviet National team on Wednesday night. "Wear a helmet," the Oklahoma coach cracked. The Russians, classic practicioners of the physical brand of international ball, blistered Oklahoma, 102-74, two weeks ago in Norman. "If their Army is as good as that team," Tubbs added, "we'd better get all the missiles we can." Without a doubt, the Jayhawks, missing three starters from last year's NCAA Final Four team, figure to have their hands full in the exhibition contest. Tipoff is 7:38 p.m. in Allen Fieldhouse. Kansas coach Larry Brown didn't need Tubbs to tell him how tough the Russians are. "They're one of the best amateur teams in the world," Brown said. "They are a big, strong, experienced team." Essentially, Kansas is none of the above, but Brown is expected to do the best he can in the experience department by starting five players who have played college ball before. Returning starters Danny Manning and Cedric Hunter are a lock to open, while 6-8 junior Chris Piper and 5-10 senior Mark Turgeon, two of last season's top reserves, are probables.

Funhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Fun Jayhawk history – this date in 1986 – Jayhawks beat Russia. Source: Lawrence Journal-World, November 20, 1986. Headline: Clicking Kansas Clunks Swooning Soviets, 84-78. Author: Chuck Woodling. Partial article: No one tells the temperature with a barometer, no one eats peas with a knife and no one puts much stock in comparative scores. At least, no one on the Kansas basketball team felt Wednesday night's 84-78 victory over the Soviet Nationals had any relevance to something that happened two weeks ago in Norman, Okla. On Nov. 6, this same Russian team exploded for a 102-74 triumph over Oklahoma, the school figured to have the best shot of dethroning the Jayhawks as Big Eight champions. What do the comparative scores mean? "Not much," said Danny Manning who punctured the Russians for 28 points. "I don't think we'd have been this prepared two weeks ago," said point guard Cedric Hunter, the only other returning KU starter from a year ago. "We weren't in shape two weeks ago," added Mark Turgeon who scored 15 of his 17 points during KU's second-half runaway. The 5-10 Turgeon, the smallest player on the floor, scored nine of those 20 points. Runaway? Yes, it really was, regardless of the final score. Kansas led by 23 points with 3 1/2 minutes left, and that's when coach Larry Brown reached deep down his bench. "I was shocked when I looked up and saw we were ahead by 21," Brown chuckled, "and I was equally shocked when I looked up and saw we won by six. Those last few minutes... that was ugly.”

centralkskufan 10 years, 6 months ago

It's interesting to see a lot of people panicking about recruiting. And while it would be nice to land another big time recruit we just have to wait and see. Either way next year Kansas should have more talent and depth next year. As a side note, even Providence has two players commited that are ranked in the top 30. Does this mean they will be better than KU since we are being 'outrecruited"? Absolutely not. People need to back off the ledge and try to relax a little. If KU start losing players to Wichita State then we can worry.

theend 10 years, 6 months ago

KU will beat will be a nice recovery. I like the exposure to these other competitive teams early in the year. It will help in March.

And on another sad to hear about the OSU plane crash. What a tragedy.

Jeff Coffman 10 years, 6 months ago

KU isn't as strong as some of its previous years, but the Big XII is not good this year and don't be surprised if we win it again...remember every team has to play in AFH, so most likely every team will have at least one loss.

brooksmd 10 years, 6 months ago

Can you do a post without bagging on Brady?

John Randall 10 years, 6 months ago

Bagging on Brady, bagging on Tyrel, bagging on Jeff, bagging on Connor ... even with the sideswipe at Tyshawn, do you suppose HiHawk has a pigmentation fixation?

Jeremy Wilhelm 10 years, 6 months ago

Two things make me sad right now - One, that I just wasted a few seconds of my life reading your post, and Two, that i just wasted a few more seconds to type this. Maybe you should go root for KSU or Missouri in the SEC.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 6 months ago

KU doesn't have presents? What will the kids in Lawrence do for christmas???

Did you even read the quote Self had about Morningstar? Or do you have selective sight?

theend 10 years, 6 months ago

It's not even worth responding to someone that thinks "presence" is spelled "presents".

Martin Shupert 10 years, 6 months ago

Foxy Loxy was a leader too. And down the foxhole they all went. TT will never be a winner. He just doesn't understand the game well enough. However, his late game performance was fine with me. If he had done that the whole game, we would have seen more than a few UK players foul out. Bobby Knight said it best. "There is nothing more important you can do to help your team win than by getting your opponent to foul you." I do not disagree with Bill Self because he's forgotten more about basketball than I will learn in my lifetime, but I would like to sit in on a Knight-Self discussion about this. I might just learn something.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

Recruiting is going to come to a head.

Too many great coaches are getting shut out of the top talent.

Consonants, Roy, Self, and Donovan to name four on Mt. Olympus are not getting their fair share of great players.

Calipari is getting their fair share of great players.

Something's got to give.

This is an unstable regime.

theend 10 years, 6 months ago

No Jaybate......just the law of always seems to catch up to everyone.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

In a level playing field, the law of averages says that over short, medium and long run everyone should be getting their share.

But this playing field is not level.

Consonants, Roy, Self, Izzo, Calhoun, each cast much bigger shadows as coaching legends that Calipari.

And this has been going on for Cal for quite awhile, when you consider Memphis and UK years.

The law of averages suggests just the opposite of what is happening.

If you want to get stochastic, there is a concept of runs you might consider.

But the only similar short term run of elite talent I recall would be Michigan under Frieder and Fischer and Memphis under Calipari. Both programs wound up in extensive corruption.

The most similar long term run of elite talent would probably be UCLA under Wooden, though UCLA's run of talent was sharply better and longer. In that case, Sam Gilbert has come to the surface., though to my knowledge no official sanctions ever occurred and no official body like the NCAA has ever declared that Gilbert acted inappropriately.

So if the explanation is stochastic, it must be that Cal is bucking the odds and on an incredible run.

But I just don't recall any other coach getting on a similar talent "run" that was clean, do you?

I would like to know about it.

If Cal really is doing this on the up and up, then I want to be the first to praise him and say that he has joined the elite of coaching. And I think it would be great for basketball if he were so exceptional.

Wouldn't you?

I just don't think it is enough to promise guys PT. Self has reputedly promised guys PT before. Kyrie Irving didn't seem to doubt he would play for Coach K. Roy didn't seem to leave any doubts in Harrison Barnes mind that he would be playing ASAP.

Why should Cal get asymmetric loads of talent for promising PT, when other coaches don't when they promise it too?

But I don't yet find a way to understand this.

It just seems hard to explain.

But hard to explain is not the same as guilty.

Surely someone can explain Cal's anomalous run of success.

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 6 months ago

Calipari is getting his share, our share and a few others as well. Sooner or later he will be caught (again) with his hand in the cookie jar..

BalKUrog 10 years, 6 months ago

Calipari gets his roster full of elite one and done's simply because he has guaranteed them a starting role on a elite program on a national stage prior to setting foot on campus. Best recipe for a quick fix and early exit to the NBA for these unseasoned kids. Regarding Tyshawn, good thing he had the athleticism and grit to take the ball to the basket. Otherwise, we had no offense whatsoever. Had Coach Self had him driving earlier; the entire Kentucky starting five would have fouled out by mid-second half. Glad he is a Jayhawk.

WilburNether 10 years, 6 months ago

We are now in the fourth year of Taylor trying to build on his many mistakes. It's getting old.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago


I know we have had our go rounds in the past, but I am not trying for one of those this time.

I have an a legitimate question.

Each season you find quite a lot lacking in certain players.

Do you think Self should bench these sorts of players permanently, or even remove them from the team, and go with other players on the roster?

Or are you just expressing some frustration about those he plays, but think we have to play these players Self thinks we have, regardless of their shortcomings?

I am not joking around here.

I'm asking, because though I side with playing the players Self choose, regardless of their shortcomings, it occurs to me that perhaps there is a case to be made for doing other wise and I would like to hear it from you, if that happened to be what you thought.

Rock Chalk!

Steve Brown 10 years, 6 months ago

some generals have issues disengaging a battlefield, referred to as burn the ships, no way out. Others are too cautious waiting until they had field advantages.

HCBS is a genius, saw in 2nd half of KY game the kids weren't running the stuff, if they were to pretend to run plays yet not execute, it would be bloody lesson and send them further into trust issues. So he called off the plan, told TT to just drive it, let the team see results of not playing to plan and not playing at a unit.

Whether you are Ceasar, Patton, Napolean or more reserved Montgomery, Bradley, Stonewall Jackson, history shows niether approach works in all situations. HCBS shows brillance knowing when to attack and when to pull back for confidence lesson building moments. 2nd half Ky, a pull back, to fight another more important day.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago


But not sure if it was to let the team see it, or because when your players are not running the plays, and your shooters are at 26%, your best move is to drive, get fouled, stop the clock (and so stretch the chance of getting back into it) and shoot FTs--your best percentage shot under the circumstance.

Either way, he did what you said with Tyshawn and it appeared that quite a few did not realize it was intentional on Self's part.

Thanks for calling our attention to it.

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