Baylor defeats Kansas, 31-30

  • 1 p.m., Nov. 12, 2011
  • David Booth Kansas Memorial Stadium, Lawrence, KS

Saturday, November 12, 2011

Senior sadness: KU collapses in fourth quarter, blows 21-point lead in 31-30 overtime loss to Baylor

Kansas offensive lineman Tanner Hawkinson finds himself in the middle of a rush of Baylor Bears as they celebrate their overtime win after a failed two-point conversion by the Jayhawks on Saturday, Nov. 12, 2011 at Kivisto Field.

Kansas offensive lineman Tanner Hawkinson finds himself in the middle of a rush of Baylor Bears as they celebrate their overtime win after a failed two-point conversion by the Jayhawks on Saturday, Nov. 12, 2011 at Kivisto Field.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Turner Gill

Kansas coach Turner Gill talks after his team's 31-30 overtime loss to Baylor on Nov. 12, 2011.

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The Kansas University football team played well for three quarters, fell apart for a fourth and, somehow, still had a chance to win Saturday afternoon against the No. 25 team in the BCS standings in front of 35,188 fans at Memorial Stadium.

After the game, none of that mattered. All anyone wanted to talk about was the final play in KU's latest loss, a failed two-point conversion attempt that helped Baylor survive with a 31-30 overtime victory.

"I'm gonna say this and I want everybody to understand," said senior lineman Jeff Spikes, one of 15 seniors who played the final home game of their careers on Saturday. "I support and I appreciate (KU coach Turner Gill) calling that two-point conversion because we could've easily come out and kicked the (extra point) and, to me, that showed that we are not no punks. We are not gonna sit down and let anyone run over us. You're gonna have to work for it. You're gonna have to beat me. I commend him and I appreciate that he gave us the opportunity to go out and take that victory. Even though we came up on the losing end, I appreciate it and I support it and I'm glad he did it."

That the Jayhawks (2-8 overall, 0-7 in Big 12 play) were even in that position in the first place seemed both right and wrong.

For starters, the Jayhawks — who entered Saturday as 20-point underdogs and ranked last in the country in total defense — were facing the nation's No. 2 offense. The fact that KU led, 24-3, going into the fourth quarter was somewhat surprising to say the least.

Once the final quarter began, everything that people are used to seeing from this team slowly started to creep back into play. Missed reads, dropped balls, blown assignments and a lack of confidence each reared its ugly head once again, as Baylor scored 28 straight points in a little more than 12 minutes to turn a 24-3 deficit into a 31-24 lead in overtime.

The play that sparked it all was a 49-yard touchdown run from BU quarterback Robert Griffin III which cut KU's lead to 24-10 with 11:45 to play in the fourth.

"I think our guys were still competing," KU defensive coordinator Vic Shealy said. "I don't think they got to the point where they were dysfunctional. I think they got to the point where maybe they weren't playing as confident because they were bracing for a mistake."

Gill, who spoke to the media with tears in his eyes following his team's eighth straight loss — and Gill's 17th setback in 22 tries at KU — said Griffin's ability to run changed the game.

Griffin, who came in averaging 396 yards of total offense, had just 49 yards rushing, 99 yards passing and no touchdowns through three quarters. He finished the game with 103 yards on the ground, 312 through the air and four touchdowns.

"That's the thing that's always scary," Gill said. "You kind of can hold him and contain him, but every time he took off running, that's when they got momentum, that's when they started making some plays."

Added KU defensive coordinator Vic Shealy: "These are good offenses. What happens is, you make a mistake, they make you look almost embarrassingly bad."

Not only was Griffin's natural play-making ability tough to handle, the Jayhawks also had to battle a batch of nerves once things got tight after Griffin's TD run.

"They changed the tempo," Shealy said. "They got really fast. We've seen fast tempo before, but they went from fast to really fast, and I don't know that we got settled back down after that."

Defensively, it didn't look like it. With the Bears' defense playing more energized every minute, the Jayhawks' defense reverted to bad habits. In a span of 4:36, Griffin tossed two long touchdowns that tied the game.

"That shouldn't happen," Gill said.

Despite the meltdown, KU still had two chances to win the game. The first came with the Jayhawks driving late in the fourth quarter. After starting at its own 39-yard line, KU, which ran for 296 yards in the loss, picked up a couple of first downs and reached the Baylor 39-yard line before disaster struck. A second-down pass from quarterback Jordan Webb intended for JaCorey Shepherd was knocked away by Baylor's Mike Hicks and fell into the arms of linebacker Elliot Coffey for an interception. Several Jayhawks said they thought Hicks hit Shepherd early, including Gill, who went wild on the sideline pleading with the refs.

"The referee makes the call," said Gill when asked about the possible pass interference. "I see it one way, but they have to make the call. That's the way it goes. Sometimes you get the call, sometimes you don't."

That set up the overtime, and after watching Baylor score first in just three plays, the Jayhawks answered with a TD strike from Webb to senior tight end Tim Biere on their first play of OT. That's when Gill called timeout and decided to go for two.

"I just felt the momentum," he said. "On that first-down call, we hit it real quick and I just thought that that would be the time to go for it. I just had an instinct at that particular time to go for it."

Gill said the Jayhawks had two plays called — both passes — and checked to throwing a fade to Biere in the corner of the end zone that was knocked away.

"They ended up playing a zone coverage," Gill said. "We thought they were gonna play man, and the corner who fell off on the outside receiver, that's the guy who made the play."

Asked if he thought about calling a running play considering the Jayhawks' success on the ground throughout the game, KU offensive coordinator Chuck Long was honest.

"I was thinking about it, but the passing game gives you so many more answers," he said. "(If you run it), they can bottle that thing up and then it takes a great play from the running back to get in there. It's not fourth-and-goal on the one. I'll go home tonight and think, 'Well, maybe I shoulda ran that, shoulda run that, shoulda called that. I'll do a coulda, shoulda, woulda tonight, for sure."

Although the final stretch of their latest loss allowed the Jayhawks to leave the field encouraged, the setback seemed to take a toll on this team like no other.

Shealy said the scene in the locker room was the lowest he'd seen during his time at Kansas. Several players agreed.

"Nobody said a word after the game," said senior linebacker Steven Johnson. "Usually you hear a little bit of whispers and stuff but it was just completely silent in there. It was even hard for coach Gill to even talk to us after the game."

Asked to relay Gill's message, Johnson smiled.

"He said he was proud of us," the co-captain said. "We played hard and played with passion and energy and gave effort all the time. Sometimes, it's like, I don't know, we're cursed or something. Sometimes calls just don't go our way. And it's just hard, we feel like we had a game and then it's like, 'What in the world is going on?'"

Added Spikes: "Our mood was just down. Silence. Nobody had anything to say because defeat hurts so bad."

Perhaps the reason this loss hurt so much was because nobody in crimson and blue could believe it happened. How could a team playing one of its best all-around games in years have a 24-3 lead with 12 minutes to play and lose?

"You gotta give credit to them," Spikes said. "They're the No. 2 offense in the country. Some things happen and you do think, 'Did that really happen?' It was kind of surreal."

Added Long: "We ran 91 plays and had the ball for 43 minutes. You can't ask for anything better than that. That's usually a winning formula."


WilburNether 10 years, 9 months ago

Regardless of all of the other factors, the no-call on what everyone in the stadium could see was an obvious, blatant case of pass interference was crucial. No, it wasn't the only thing; there were indeed blown coverages, inept and stupid plays by our defensive backs (the face mask penalty that gave Baylor the field goal at the end of the first half, the completion of a long floater that should have been at least knocked down if not intercepted, some bad decisions and throws by our quarterback, etc., etc., etc.), but that pass interference no-call was one of the most horrible pieces of officiating I've ever seen in a Division I football game. Coach Gill was livid, and with good reason. That alleged Big 12 officiating crew should be sent down to Division III.

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 9 months ago

(you just set the world record for words inside parentheses)

WilburNether 10 years, 9 months ago

(Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the point, which is typical of your posts here, and I'm going to go for a new world record noting how utterly useless your comment actually was, which point I believe is now proven.)

Andy Tweedy 10 years, 9 months ago

I was on the 30 yard line, and it sure looked like interference from where I was. Now...I was quite a ways from the play, but it sure looked like interference! The hold on Beshears on the previous drive was also a killer!

captku 10 years, 9 months ago

Wilbur, I just was sitting here thinking about what Mangino would have said about those calls. If HCTG was livid, you know Man-joe would have gone YouTube in the press conf! Something about Texas teams when they play at Kansas that seems to keep the officiating suspect. All L's are tough, but this one, really tough.

John Randall 10 years, 9 months ago

Come on – Div III doesn't deserve a crew that bad !!!

WilburNether 10 years, 9 months ago

You are absolutely right. I stand corrected. Middle schools don't deserve a crew that bad, let alone Division III.

johnnyhrdwd 10 years, 9 months ago

go for one at home go for 2 on the road

WilburNether 10 years, 9 months ago

That is the conventional wisdom, but considering that our defense had utterly collapsed in the fourth quarter, and reverted to its old ways of blown coverages and other foolish plays, I completely agree with Gill's decision to go for two. "Knife through butter" doesn't even begin to describe how bad the defense was in the fourth quarter, and how easily Baylor was rolling over, through, and around it. In that circumstance, going for two was actually the more prudent choice. Unfortunately, Webb appeared to have homed in on just one option, even though that option was double-covered, and then underthrew the pass. That was poor performance by the player, as opposed to a bad decision by the coach.

Dan Pawlowski 10 years, 9 months ago

Actually you did let them run all over you in the fourth quarter.

Gary Wirsig 10 years, 9 months ago

I didn't like the play that was called for the 2 point conversion, but I thought it was a good idea to go for it. Baylor was totally outplaying us and we had a chance, and a good one, to end it right there. I think very few who actually watched it wanted to go to a second overtime.

Totally baseless claim that Gill threw the game.

And do you know that he is not a Christian? What do you base that on?

Andy Tweedy 10 years, 9 months ago

Those who were at the game can complain about the call and say they didn't like the decision to go for it, but I heard an entire stadium cheering when the offense came back out on the field. I didn't hear one person wanting the kick team back on the field. Had we converted, I'm certain there would be 100% support for the decision to go for it!

MorganR 10 years, 9 months ago

I agree with those that say coach Gill's decision to go for the two points was the right decision. My siser and her husband also commented on the poor officiating. They likened it to a game a few years ago when KU apparently beat Texas only to have a mythical pass interference call allow Texas to win.

I think we should be pleased with the progress of the team, The players and coaches aren't giving up and the fans shouldn't either.

With all of the turmoil surrounding storied programs such as Penn State, OhioState and USC this year, the importance of winning or losing football games seems less important than integrity and other values.

Mark Lindrud 10 years, 9 months ago

I am certain Gill wasn't trying to lose. At this point I think he is over his head as a coach. Hopefully he becomes a coordinator again, learns and becomes a good head coach someday down the road. That being said, he will probably be gone at the end of the season.

The biggest reason he should go is economics. What I mean is I don't think people will go to games or buy football memorabilia if he is back because they will expect another season like this one. If for any reason he is back the DC has to be gone in order for fans to think this team could be better next year.

WilburNether 10 years, 9 months ago

"The defense completely collapsed in the fourth quarter. And in overtime, there was no need to attempt a two-point conversion."

Actually, you yourself just demonstrated why Coach Gill had every reason to attempt the two-point conversion. The defense did indeed completely collapse, including allowing a touchdown on Baylor's overtime possession. It made vastly better sense to roll the dice on gaining three yards for that two-point conversion than to trust a defense that had fallen apart. In that situation, Gill absolutely made the right call.

Dirk Medema 10 years, 9 months ago

Sitting at plus 21 going into the 4th quarter, was de' ja vu of 2006 all over again - except that the 2006 team did it 3, 4, 5, 6 (?) times that year. Maybe this is a good sign. Maybe we'll win a BCS bowl game next year.

Also wondered how long it would take for someone to complain about Gill going for the win on a 3 yd play just 1 week after ripping him for not going for the win on a 10+ yd play.

Dirk Medema 10 years, 9 months ago

Sitting at plus 21 going into the 4th quarter, was de' ja vu of 2006 all over again - except that the 2006 team did it 3, 4, 5, 6 (?) times that year. Maybe this is a good sign. Maybe we'll win a BCS bowl game next year.

Also wondered how long it would take for someone to complain about Gill going for the win on a 3 yd play just 1 week after ripping him for not going for the win on a 10+ yd play.

Mat Davis 10 years, 9 months ago

This loss hurts more than the others, but the last 2 weeks have at least shown progress. We've been in both games and had the opportunity to win. To hold RG3 down for 3 quarters was impressive, but it was a matter of time before he found his groove. I saw some fight today, and that is something to be proud of. As for the Seniors, it always hurts to lose your last game at home, but the only thing you can ask of them is to give all they had, and I truly believe they did that.

TwistedFish31 10 years, 9 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 9 months ago

How many sick demented homoerotic post does this twisted guy get to make before he loses his privileges? I think this is the 3rd one today! It's getting kind of creepy when dude talks about "Gary Pinkle panties" and "lust for gill" on all my post.

Sandusky thinks this guy might be a little strange.

OKHawkFan 10 years, 9 months ago

So what if he makes those comments. You pick and choose what is right and wrong from all your previous posts. Where do you get off pointing your finger at Twisted and saying "you should not have commented that." At least be consistent. I would have thought those Gold Cords you earned in college would have informed you about how moral relativism works chief.... :-)

OKHawkFan 10 years, 9 months ago

Guess I don't get it. What is a "black Card" And what does Stay Poor exactly mean?

OKHawkFan 10 years, 9 months ago

Guess I should have googled before my last question. Black Card meaning a CC for high rollers such as yourself. Basically, your response to me is I have a lot of money and I'm better than you. Got it. Man you showed me. Dang I just got owned. Some anonymous dude on the internet just slammed me by saying he allegedly has more money than me and is a more worthy specimen as compared to the rest of us/human race. All taken with a grain of salt because there is no way you're going to prove to me that you are worth millions or heck even billions nor that you would know anything about my financial affairs. Still doesn't answer the question to what I posted above.

babyjay1 10 years, 9 months ago

Don't know if players actually read this stuff... But just wanted to say "thank you" to the Seniors! You've had a tough go of it and hung there, played with heart and will always be Jayhawks. As a fan, I wish the last couple of years would have been better but I know my thoughts on that are nothing compared to the disappointment of the Seniors, who have no more chances.

And by the way, although I didn't see it, the "no call" on the pass interference sucks but stuff like that has happened all year on our home field. I did notice that 3 times I could count, KState GOT the interference call at critical times....

jaybate 10 years, 9 months ago

Trend line up.

And whaddya expect when he's rebuilding the offense first?

Of course they are going to blow leads.

But the trend line is unmistakably up.

The guys have just got to buckle their chin straps, put a little Atomic Balm in their jocks and get after them Aggies.

Go Turner Go!

captku 10 years, 9 months ago

Man, A-Balm in the J's? That used to be punishment, not motivation! But if it works, let me know where to send a case from Cramer's. The memories ... thanks JBate!

blackhawkjayhawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Pin this one on Chuck Long. And not for a nonsensical fade call for the two-point conversion (going go for it was definitely the right call).

Early in the 4th quarter, up by 21, we continued to snap the ball with 16, 17 or more seconds on the play clock. Then, on third down, we'd throw an incomplete pass and stop the clock again. We could have easily sucked another 4 to 5 minutes out of that quarter with a non-stop dose of Darian Miller and clock management.

If Long slows the pace, runs the ball and methodically eats up that quarter, then KU wins. This one's on him.

(Does Jordan know that throwing the ball away is allowed?)

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 9 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

danmoore 10 years, 9 months ago

Convenient hindsight ahperse. As usual.

Ethan Berger 10 years, 9 months ago

Naw, pin this on the players. Those two drops, the two long tds (maybe the first was a bad scheme, but the 2nd no reason that player should have scored with terry on his back.)

Nic Andrews 10 years, 9 months ago

agree re: Long, that hurry up was ill-advised and piss-poor coaching and decision making. And the play calls in the 4th were questionable. And Webb certainly doesn't help the situation. Clock management is key. And this is RGIII we're talking about, sooner or later we had to know that he would come to form and start ballin' out as he usually does. Not too many defenses are stopping him. Was suprised and glad to see the first 3 quarters where the D did just that. But I'd still have to pin some of this loss on Shealy as well. That prevent defense and going conservative, in the 4th with 9 or so minutes left was unacceptable and a horrible coaching decision. Noticed it as soon as it happened. Typical playing not to lose, which does just the opposite. The players made mistakes as well on both sides, in particular in the 4th--especially dropping those passes. And that no-call PI was horrible by the refs...I could go on and on about this one. A game we should have won. Just like Texas Tech and Iowa St. Gill and the team should have 5 wins right now and still be trying to win a bowl game. This poorly coached team deserves more. Glimpes and shades of decent talent has shown, certainly enough to win more ball games. But the coaches have done far too little to develop and make this team better.

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 9 months ago

Save it Spikes! Kick the mother effing extra point and live to keep fighting. Who knows what could happen. An interception, a fumble, a stop (ok, that last one was a long shot) were all possible.

You can tell me you liked the call because we wern't stopping them, but guess what? We scored on the first play! They went really stopping us either. What we saw with that play call was a desperate call from a desperate man that is trying to save his job.

Ethan Berger 10 years, 9 months ago

except they stopped us in crucial time to comeback and win(actually we helped them by two easy catches that were dropped)

Dirk Medema 10 years, 9 months ago

Last week, weren't you complaining about Gill not going for the win on a 4th and 10+ yd play? Just 1 week after ripping him for playing not to lose, now you rip him for playing to win. Such a hypocritcal loser.

jayhawkjed 10 years, 9 months ago

You go for it on the road and extend the game at home. Two bad decisions in crucial times in back to back weeks

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 9 months ago

Totally different!

Last week there was not a guarantee of getting the ball back this week there was.

And what happend between last week and yesterday? Last week Gill had enough confidence in his d to punt the ball with under 3 minutes left to get a stop. But this week we unnecessarily go for 2 in overtime because he has no faith in his d.

Andy Tweedy 10 years, 9 months ago

It was a much better performance today, but as someone who attended the game, the only two complaints I had were: 1) the pass to Biere in OT was great, but where was that play for the first 60+ minutes? 2) our secondary had two of the worst blown coverages I've ever seen in a D1 game! The long pass down the goal line and the long TD throw were to receivers that were clear of the last defender by 15+ yards. I just don't understand how someone can get that wide open. I would have to think the last thing the coaches would say in that situation was "don't let him get behind you!" Am I missing something???

Ethan Berger 10 years, 9 months ago

The two drops, lost us the game. We could have run 4-5 minutes by continuing the drive, even if we went 3 plays and out after wards. This game does not go on Gill what so ever. Player screwed up bad. How about Keeston Terry on the wide out on a horribly thrown ball and yet somehow lets the guy catch it and then score?

Dirk Medema 10 years, 9 months ago

Lot's of bad plays not by the coaches - The penalty in the 1st half after time expires to give them the FG The floater pass/INT on a horrible decision when we are in easy FG range. Several dropped passes. Terry running past the receiver who had stopped in front of him.

The good news is that this really, really young team is starting to mature and learn the first year D.

kesmithstl1 10 years, 9 months ago

Just a sad day thrown into the middle of a sad season! Still regret taking the pledge to be drug and alcohol free at the last 2 spring games. Watching KU football the last 2 years has made me a liar!

boknowssports 10 years, 9 months ago

when you are at home against a fairly equal team, you ALWAYS kick the PAT and got to round two. this was not a miracle chance to beat Oklahoma! just another example of a poor coaching decision.

Ethan Berger 10 years, 9 months ago

Why? Why? What have we shown that we can slug with them AFTER they grabbed momentum? Boise State OU 07. Look it up.

VaJay 10 years, 9 months ago

I think you need to change your name tag, or add "(but not football)". It was a gutsy call and pretty smart if you consider the odds. Typically 44% of 2pt conversions are successful. That means we had almost a 50/50 shot of winning the game on that one play.

Based on the facts that Baylor has the 7th rated offense in the country and our defense is ranked close to last, what do you think the likelihood of us being able to match them touchdown for touchdown in OT is? Do you think its even close to 50/50? Well do you??

Cal Bender 10 years, 9 months ago

The team played really hard, and did well. We should be proud of all of our players. But, Here's how I explained it to a friend who is not familiar with college footbal rules, and maybe cares less. I'm sure many will find fault with my explanation. "In overtime, each team gets a chance to score from the 25 yard line. After both teams have had that chance, the team that's ahead wins. If they're still tied, there's another overtime, and each team gets another shot at it, from the 25 yard line. If after two overtimes they're still tied, they do it again, but now the teams must, after scoring a touchdown, go for two points instead of being allowed to kick the extra point. That's because it increases the odds of one team being ahead after both have had their shot. So, after Baylor scored in the overtime and kicked the extra point they were 7 points ahead. Now it was KU's turn to try from the 25 yard line. They scored a touchdown. If they had kicked the extra point the score would have again been tied, and there would have been a second overtime. But no, the dumb ass Kansas coach Gil Turner has an "intuition," (as he called it in the press conference,) and decides the gods are with him and they can beat the odds, so he went for two points after touchdown instead of going with the odds and kicking the extra point. So, when KU failed to make the two point conversion, the game was over, Baylor won. 31 to 30. That's an elaborate explanation, but I'm sure it clarifies the situation, and the final score."

John Randall 10 years, 9 months ago

Going for two was KU's best chance to pull out a win.

Calling a timeout before going for two cut that chance exactly in half.

Dirk Medema 10 years, 9 months ago

Last week, weren't you complaining about Gill not going for the win on a 4th and 10+ yd play? Just 1 week after ripping him for playing not to lose, now you rip him for playing to win. Such a hypocritcal loser.

Dirk Medema 10 years, 9 months ago

Last week, weren't you complaining about Gill not going for the win on a 4th and 10+ yd play? Just 1 week after ripping him for playing not to lose, now you rip him for playing to win. Such a hypocritcal loser.

boknowssports 10 years, 9 months ago

ok einstein, why did he call time out to kill the "momentum" he claimed he wanted, and what about the brilliant play call. you are clueless.

VaJay 10 years, 9 months ago

You said "you ALWAYS kick the PAT and go to round two". That's what's wrong about your post!! Don't change the subject. Nice try.

Cal Bender 10 years, 9 months ago

My view is that if you've just scored a TD, time is short, and the team is still down by 2, you go for the 2 pt PAT. That's mainly the situation for which the 2 pt PAT rule was installed. There are other situations in which a 1 pt. PAT won't help, but a 2 pt will, and failing on the 2 pt attempt won't put the team in any worse position than making the 1 pt., so the 2 pt attempt is the right decision. The correct decision in this situation was to go for the almost automatic 1 pt. and tie the game. There's a good reason why the 1 pt. PAT kick is used far more frequently than the 2 pt. attempt.The odds of success are far greater. With the ball on the 3 yd. line the defense has far less territory to defend. The defense against the pass is easier, and the defense against the run can be beefed up. I haven't checked the stats, but idf 48 percent of the 2 pt. PATs are successful, I'm estimating that 95 percent of the 1 pt. PATs are successful. At least that's my view.

VaJay 10 years, 9 months ago

You just confirmed you didn't read my post (or it didn't sink in...). You keep talking about the probability of making a conversion - I'm talking about the probability of winning the game. So WHAT if we make the 1 pt & tie the game - we still have to STOP them from scoring touchdowns more often than we score touchdowns & what's the probability of THAT happening? Look at the big picture please.

Cal Bender 10 years, 9 months ago

I think I read your post and understood it, and I don't mean to belittle your opinion, only differ from it. I note that in the KSU game yesterday both teams kicked the 1 point conversions in the first OT: both kicked field goals in the second; and both failed to convert in the required 2 point conversion in the 3rd OT. In the 4th OT Tx A&M kicked a field goal on 4th down: KSU Scored a TD to win on second down. The point is, it's really tought to cross the goal line from 3 yards out, and with only one try it's especially so. In the Tx A&M - KSU game it looks like both coaches realized that.

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 9 months ago

In good news, daddy got paid again. 5-1

Northern Ill Va Tech K State WKU Oregon (if they hold on)

UT is the only disappointment.

danmoore 10 years, 9 months ago

OMG! Do you really think anyone is buying your bs?

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 9 months ago

Ummmmmmm they should because I post most of my picks during the week.

danmoore 10 years, 9 months ago

Ummmmmmm, no you didn't. If you're going to make up stuff try to make it credible.

TenaciousD 10 years, 9 months ago

Dude... you should've been on the Jayhawks.

gardenjay 10 years, 9 months ago

THank you for such a wonderful game - it thoroughly made my Saturday to have KU hang in there to the last moment. IMHO we could have won the Iowa State game as well, and frankly considering who we've been playing this season I couldn't be more proud with my Kansas Jayhawks at this point in the season.

You watch - the season is still not over, and they played like this against #25, without tremendous fan support, so I think we have a chance against Missouri.

You can't come back from adversity without adversity, that's my university right there. Always giving people a chance and hope if they work hard. Sad yes, but beak'em next time and bring on the recruits who must have been thinking about KU today.

Gary Wirsig 10 years, 9 months ago

With you all the way, gardenjay. Very proud of the team. And although Mizzou is another game on another day, the last two weeks give some hope.

BaylorGuy 10 years, 9 months ago

FWIW, I was unable to be at the game personally, and since it wasn't televised, I had to rely on my computer. Regarding the possible pass interference call in the 4th quarter, I have to agree that it appeared the defender got there before the ball did, so a PI should have been called. Of course, my vantage point wasn't very good, and the picture on the computer screen isn't exactly HD.

On the season, no school understands football irrelevance better than Baylor. We are just coming out of what we are calling "the lost years." You guys are in the 2nd year of bad seasons. I completely understand the feelings, and know all too well the frustrations, and looking for an answer. I don't know if Coach Gil is the answer. I do know he is a very good man. His playing career is undeniable. But, his coaching career is suspect. If I recall, KU hired him, after he took the University of Buffalo to a bowl game. He is young, and perhaps he is what KU needs. Or maybe he is in over his head as someone mentioned earlier. I can offer this. It doesn't last forever, though it seems it will. KU is a fantastic school with great academics and athletics. I've got nothing but respect for Jayhawks. I can assure you, there is light at the end of the tunnel. It appears that KU is turning a corner. The last few games have been competitive. You guys gave ISU, and us all we could handle. Gave Tech a good scare. The next hump is to get a W. I do see improvement, though it's not showing in the W/L column yet. But it will. Good luck the rest of the season, and stay healthy!

Hammertoe 10 years, 9 months ago

There is great football in Kansas and it is at K-State. I was at the A & M game today game today and it was electric.

flyingfinn 10 years, 9 months ago

Ya and they have a great coach also unlike some other Kansas team I know and love.

Fruity22 10 years, 9 months ago

Were you at the OU game too? That was greatness?

okiedave 10 years, 9 months ago

Gill should have a chance to recruit and see what he can do with his recruits.. K.U. has always been too quick to pull the trigger -- KU needs to build a history of staying the course when you have a coach that the players believe in and support. KU needs to put aside its coaching revolving door history. I think Gill will eventually get the job done.

Case in Point: OSU is 10-0 this year and ranked 3rd and blew out Tech 66-6 in Lubbock today. OSU fans were calling for Gundy's head during his first few miserable years as head coach. But OSU stayed the course and felt Gundy would eventually do the job. Perseverance paid off.

blackhawkjayhawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Gill would need to bring in another significant recruiting class - tough to do when you are the laughing stock - though TTU seems be trying to steal that mantle from us.

Three quarters of very good football followed by, perhaps, the worst quarter of football I've ever seen. It's painful.

To keep Gill you would need to sit down, talk with him and be convinced that he has a plan to fix the defense and that he has a plan to bring in another good class. Another 2-10 year could be really devastating. A weak recruiting class would also be a huge blow. It would take an enormous amount of courage on behalf of Zenger to keep Gill. I'd hate to be in his place right now.

I think that he has to pull the trigger. If he does, he needs to bring in a very, very good coach. That's a tall order for any person in his position.

Dirk Medema 10 years, 9 months ago

If that was the "worst quarter of football" you've ever seen, then you haven't been following KU for very long, or don't have a memory that extends more than 4 yrs. Five yrs ago (2006), we blew leads worse than this on a regular basis ( ( ( ( ( The last few just to doc the nature of the season. Lot's of finding ways to lose games.

Gary Wirsig 10 years, 9 months ago

Impressive list, dagger. I followed the Hawks from the central California coast that fall, and had forgotten all the late game collapses.

Jayhawk1116 10 years, 9 months ago

Okay, did anyone else notice we got the ball first in both the first and second half?!? Has that ever happened before? Didn't even know that was possible... Did Baylor decide that, or what?

Gary Wirsig 10 years, 9 months ago

On the coin flip, the winner can choose to receive, defer, OR pick an end of the field (for wind advantages). Baylor picked an end of the field (their coach was really ticked off at his captain for that choice). Then the choice came to us to receive or defer, and as you know we chose to receive. Since Baylor chose first in the first half, we got to choose first in the second half, and we once again chose to receive.

In overtime for the coin flip, Coach Briles sent out a different captain to call the flip. :^)

Bion Ostrander 10 years, 9 months ago

I feel bad for the Senior players, but they almost pulled it off in spite of TG, Long and Shealy's coaching this year. I don't mind going for two in that situation. However, I hate calling the "fade" rout, horrible call. The fade rout is probably the toughest pass to make and the least successful, it has a slim margin for success, and requires that almost everything goes perfect. Combine that with Webb is not a passer with a good "touch" and you really reduce the window of opportunity for winning. Sad, but its almost predictable that KU would have a chance to win it only to be let down by their coaches again. KU has not had any red zone offense all year, the play calling is always the same as it is when KU is 80 yards from the end zone. Sorry Seniors, you deserved better.....

Chris Condren 10 years, 9 months ago

Gill is a loser. He does not have a clue about how to run a Division I program. All he can do is cash his gigantic check and give us excuses. Even the paper is tired of writing articles about this loser. Give him his contactual payoff and send him packing.

yates33333 10 years, 9 months ago

Gill made the right decision, the first really good one this season. His team had collapsed defensively. He was correct to go for broke. It just failed.

Michael Maris 10 years, 9 months ago

I think when the football season is over, Zenger will have the end of the season dialogue with Coach Gill. I do think that Zenger will talk to members of the team as well (in his own time). I think that Zenger will take into account all of the collected information and his personal beliefs of whether he thinks that Gill is the right guy or not for this job. In the end, all of us that post on here might have a small amount of say that is taken into consideration by Zenger. No matter what Zenger's final decision is, it will be Zenger that makes the final decision to give (or not to give) Coach Gill a third season (not Ahperse, Mangin00holtz, 100, Kleave or my decision).

Coach Gill will always be on the record for being a coach at Kansas. Nothing, that any of us can do about it at all.


ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 9 months ago

with all the empty seats in the stadium we may have a bigger say than you think

741hawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Unfortunately, I don't think it will be Zenger's decision. Ultimately, I believe the Chancellor will intercede and protect her "coach." Why? I firmly believe that the reason Bubba Cunningham didn't take the AD job (after accepting it) was that he realized the Chancellor would interfere with his decision re Gill.)

jhox 10 years, 9 months ago

I had a great view of the no call pass interference, and how all of those officials could have missed something so obvious is beyond me. If that call is made, we're in field goal range, and the win is at our backs for the kick. So, yes, we got screwed big time by another Big 12 officiating crew. It was the worst blown call since the Texas game several years ago when Vince Young was there.

As for the decision to go for two, I had no problem with that. I would have done the same, having watched our defense perform all season. The call was horrible...that type of pass maybe works one in 20 times.

What's the deal with Miller sitting on the sideline half of our plays? He's far and away our best offensive player, yet this coaching staff seems blind to that fact. We're trying to get too cute, running the wildcat formation and such. Put Miller in, leave him in, and feed him the ball, mixing in the occassional pass. Our play calling was was too conservative in the 4th quarter. We played not to lose, rather than playing to win. Why were we running the wildcat on first and second down? Keep the defense honest by at least making them think we might pass the ball. With the wildcat, all they have to worry about is the run. I really want this coaching staff to succeed because they are a bunch of genuinely good guys, but it's hard to support them when they make the decisions they're making. Unfortunately, they're digging their own graves.

David Atchley 10 years, 9 months ago

The point that continues to allude the posters here, Gill should never have been hired in the first place. It was obviously Perkins doing somebody back on the East Coast one last favor as he scurried out the door to avoid jail time (possibly his greatest feat in his career)

You can continue to rationalize and make all attempts to "silk purse a sow's ear" but bottom line, you have a coach with no ties in recruiting in this part of the country, much less Texas, clearly not ready to coach at this level, and who's coaching antics are antiquated and delusional both off and on the field.

number1jayhawker 10 years, 9 months ago

FYI, Gill was born and raised in Ft Worth, TX. He also recruited for the Huskers.

Robert Brock 10 years, 9 months ago

Find the money. Fire Gill. Hire a competent coach. Secure good staff. Stop being a laughing stock.

manginodrh00lz 10 years, 9 months ago

I don't know!!! Could we!!!! What will happen!!! Your hillbilly ways amuse us all.

Jayhawk444 10 years, 9 months ago

You have one play. One play that will win this game, erase (at least for a week) the struggles of a long, disappointing season, and maybe even save your coaching career. One play. One special play that you practice every week, but keep in your back pocket and never reveal in a game until this situation arises and you need it. One play. And the best you come up with is a poor-percentage fade pass to the corner? Pathetic. Now you're gone.

Thank you Seniors. Because it is the players that are everything that is good about this program right now.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 9 months ago

And that is the point. The decision to go for two is good if you make it, bad if you don't. No right answer.

But the play call was horrible. One option, and if the defense reads it, it's over. On a play of such magnitude, you need something with more options. Or you need your best gimmick play to gain three yards. Anything but a "poor percentage fade pass."

CheneyHawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Based on the %'s and angles, I thought the a sweep was usually a good call @ the 3 yrd line.

Jayhawker111 10 years, 9 months ago

Needed a quarterback change about 4 games ago..

Another 3 interceptions this week.

QB has not got it done.....

741hawk 10 years, 9 months ago

We have no QB choice. Look closely. Not even another to choose from on the bench. Gill and Long (QBs) have been woefully unsuccessful in recruiting QBs!

Nic Andrews 10 years, 9 months ago

And even this falls on the coaches and not judging personnel. Chrisian Mathews, who was moved to WR, is a dual threat QB who should be developed. Baller in high school in Texas. They should give him a shot in the Spring to beat out Webb. Or maybe Cummings can do it. And I hope Brock finally makes his mark. Anything but what we currently have.

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 9 months ago

ok, are you ready for this? you might want to sit down because i'm about to say something that may make you pass out. . .

Don't fire Turner! Give him 1-2 more years.

Ok now here me out. If you had to have turner for 2 more years but it ment upgrading memorial stadium (ie removing the track and lowering the field) would you do it? If we have the money to fire Turner then we have the money to make memorial look like an actual college football stadium.
I'm sure there would be construction and cash flow concerns that somebody smarter than me could figure out. But let's say for a year KU had to play every game on the road. Would it really matter? Would you miss it? Or maybe had to play some games at Arrowhead, The K, or whatever that soccer stadium is(the novelty of that alone would sell some tickets). During these two years Turner either turns us around or drives futher into a hole. Either way is fine. If he turnes it around then the new stadium is packed from day one. If he drives us futher into it and we have to replace him with a new, better, heck, maybe even big time coach based on our newly shown commitment to football then memorial is packed based on people wanting to come and see the stadium for two years while the new coach builds the program.

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 9 months ago

i bet you thought it was another copy cat. i'm not saying i support gill. i'm saying if we have the money to pay three coaches (mm, gill, and new coach) why not bite the bullet for a year or two more with gill, put the money we will be getting from mu and aTm and donors that want to buy gill out to renovate the stadium, and hopefully hire a big time coach that builds the program from scratch..

okiedave 10 years, 9 months ago

You must be an accountant. Makes financial sense. I too support Gill for at least one more year. But just because I believe in honoring contracts, whether for benefit or detriment.

westernkshawk 10 years, 9 months ago

The next coach is going to look like a genius because KU is definitely on the way up. Too bad Coach Gill won't be there to reap the benefits of the improvement.

Doug Fogleman 10 years, 9 months ago

Going for two was without a doubt the right decison. But I hated the play call. That should be a run pass option. The fade is a hard pass to throw and we had dropped so many passes throught the game.

As far as officating. There was two huge no calls the pass interference and a Baylor hold in the endzone the should of resulted in a Baylor safety. No one has mentions the seven offical reviews in 13 minutes of game time. Just horrible and so dishearting.

mahkmood 10 years, 9 months ago

MM has a 5-7 year, fans are complaining that we need a coach that can "take us to the next level". Lew does his dirty work and gets rid of MM. Now - it seems to me - the fan base would be proud and patting Gill on the back for producing a 5-7 season (something that MM produced on a fan considered down year). What is wrong with so many KU football fans!? They seem schizophrenic to me - maybe just bad football IQ. Gill's problem is not what MM left behind or bad officiating. I don't want to hear any more lame excuses. I think we should re-hire Mark Mangino, and leave the true problems for KU football out of our memory, 1) Lew Perkins, 2) Turner Gill's lack of BCS coaching ability. Boo-hoo, cry, cry, cry, MM was a "meany" to players and rude to parking-ticket employees. He weighed too much. These "reasons" for why MM needed to go were overblown by Lew so he could get rid of MM at a discount rate. Bring back Mangino! Bring back Mangino! Bring back Mangino! Do it NOW!

texashawk10 10 years, 9 months ago

Screw bringing Mangino back, the reason why he needed to go was because his teams couldn't finish games when in the position to just like Gill's teams on the rare occasion he's had close games. Yesterday was the kind of game Mangino's teams played on far too many occasions in 7 of his 8 years. I can't even recall the number of late leads Mangino's teams blew throughout his tenure. The last two games have reminded me way too much of what the vast majority of the fat man's tenure was like. Missouri in 2009, USF in 2008, 4 of the 2006 losses, among others. KU needs a coach who knows how to manage the clock when trying to run out the clock and a coach who knows to finish close games which KU doesn't have now and didn't have in Mangino either.

arizonahawk 10 years, 9 months ago

Does this mean we're mathematically eliminated from the playoffs?

texashawk10 10 years, 9 months ago

Enough with the pass interference call being what cost KU the game. Let's say KU did get the PI call and have the ball on the 25 yard line, what guarantee is there that KU gains any more yards before trying to kick the field goal and what guarantee is there that Doherty makes the potential game winning field goal. KU's defense took their foot off the gas after they went up 21 and that's what lost them the game.

As for the decision to go for two, that was 100% the right call at the time. Considering the season KU has had, what risk was there in going for two? They were in position to win a game in which they had no business even being competitive in. A win over Baylor would've given KU some hope about beating an A&M team on the road and let them know that they are capable of beating good teams. Now we get the the 2 point conversion itself, KU had rushed for almost 300 yards so why in the hell would you not give the ball to Miller or Pierson? That's what ticked me off about the end of the game. That 25 yard pass to Biere was almost 1/4 of Webb's yards and he already had thrown 3 picks so what in the world gave Long any confidence that Webb is capable of making the right read and on the chance he does, what has Webb done to gain any confidence that he can make the right read?

One thing I will say that is impressing me about the defense of late is that they are starting to force turnovers at a pretty good clip. 3 against OU, 2 against UT, 3 against ISU, and 4 yesterday. I'm not saying the defense is any kind of good yet because they are still giving up way too many yards and points, but being able to create turnovers is a great way to mask deficiencies in a defense. If KU can keep up the pace of 2-3 turnovers a game next year as well, KU could have the possibility of reaching a bowl game depending on other situations like the QB and coaching. I know being ranked 92 in turnovers forced doesn't sound great, but keep in mind that prior to the OU game, KU had only forced 2 turnovers in the first 5 games so KU was on pace to force 5 or so TO's for the entire season. If KU had been on their current pace over the past 5 games all season long, they would be in the top 10-15 nationally in turnovers gained so the defense has been one of the most productive at forcing TO's over the past month. If KU has a defense that can allow an average of 24 points while forcing 2-3 TO's a game, that's something I can live with because that will give KU a good chance to win most of their games. Chuck Heater for DC!

hiphopsux 10 years, 9 months ago

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David Atchley 10 years, 9 months ago

Thanks for the "catch" on the word "allude" used instead of "elude." Meanwhile, back on the field. I understand Gill is born in Texas. However, I am speaking to someone that has the strong relationships forged and pipelines established out of the Texas high schools. Other than knowing to take "I-35 W" at Denton to get to Fort Worth, I am not certain what if any success Gill had luring the top tier Texas high school athletes to the University of Buffalo.

In order to get Kansas "caught-up" with the schools in the Big 12 Conference, they have to hire a coach that can produce now.

Now more than ever, a head coach that has deep recruiting roots in Texas is required.

Kansas has a rare opportunity, normally not afforded to anyone, to step-up and fill the void of the departure of Missouri and Texas A&M. Both schools have recruited very successfully out of Texas. Athletes being recruited to Kansas will still provide their family and friends the ability to see them on regionally televised games, and also be able to travel to many of the Jayhawks away games during the season. This won't be the case with moving to the SEC.

Chad Morris, in his first year as OC at Clemson, has taken them to a 9-1 record and has put Clemson football back on the map. He did the very same thing at Tulsa in an equally short time. Morris has also won "3" Texas High School Football State Championships, and was the "Coach of the Year 11 times, and took Lake Travis High School (alma mater of Todd Reesing) to being ranked 8th and 9th nationally by Rivals.

Morris is on the very short list of coaching candidates and the school that hires him first, will get a player's coach, and every available assistant coach knows what this guy will brng to a program. Morris "is" Texas High School football and could turn around a very fractured football program.

Patrickulating 10 years, 9 months ago

I have no problem with the decision to go for two there, but why wasn't June Henley on the field for the play?

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