Tuesday, November 8, 2011

Gary Bedore’s KU basketball notebook: Bill Self reiterates Missouri stance

Kansas head coach Bill Self disputes a call with an official during the second half on Tuesday, Nov. 1, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas head coach Bill Self disputes a call with an official during the second half on Tuesday, Nov. 1, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.


Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self was asked again Monday about what KU’s fans think about Missouri leaving the Big 12 for the SEC.

“I don’t really talk to fans, but the ones that have talked to me, they couldn’t care less,” he said. “Our fans aren’t going to determine what we do, but Missouri isn’t going to determine anything we do either (as far as scheduling games in the future). I said this yesterday. This isn’t being critical. We wish them the best. I hope that they’re happy where they’re at. There are no ill feelings about them leaving. This isn’t like Oklahoma or Texas leaving, either — a school that could break the league up. I’m happy with our league and wish they wanted to be a part of it, but I’m not going to cry because they’re leaving at all. They’re doing what they want to do, but certainly when they do that, then people should understand that we get to do what we want to do, too. I don’t think anyone in our administration would be too excited about playing them right now at all after this year. We still get two more times to play them. That will be good.”

Naismith list

KU junior Thomas Robinson has been named to the 2011-12 Naismith Trophy preseason watch list, the Atlanta Tipoff Club announced Monday night. The Naismith Trophy, which goes to the player of the year, will be awarded at the 2012 Final Four in New Orleans. KU assistant coach Danny Manning won the award in 1988. Other Big 12 players on the list: Marcus Denmon, Missouri; Perry Jones III and Quincy Miller, Baylor; and Khris Middleton, Texas A&M.;

Triple-double talk

Jeff Withey’s triple-double against Pittsburg State received a lot of attention last week. “I’ve gotten some people teasing me about the triple-double being in an exhibition game,” he said. “I didn’t think too much of it anyways. It’s the beginning of the season. I want to do it again. It definitely helps my confidence. I’m trying to build off that and continue with that momentum and bring that style of play into this next game.”

Tiger talk

Fort Hays State fell to Kansas State, 90-60, on Sunday in Manhattan. Tyrone Phillips, a 6-foot-1 junior from Portland, scored 16 points, and Lance Russell, a 6-4 junior from Wichita, 12 points for FHSU, picked to finish third in the 11-team MIAA.


Luke Cothron, a 6-8, 220-pound freshman forward from College of Southern Idaho, may make an official recruiting visit to KU in December, Cothron told He said he’s heard from KU, Memphis and UNLV. Cothron, the No. 45 ranked player in the 2010 class, originally signed with Auburn before heading to juco. ... No. 56-rated Andrew White, a 6-6 senior small forward from Miller School in Chester, Va., who has visited KU, West Virginia, Texas and Louisville, could sign with a school later this week or wait until the spring. He’s pondering a visit to Georgetown. ... No. 33-rated Tony Parker, a 6-9 center from Miller Grove High in Lithonia, Ga., who has heard from KU, said he will sign with a school in April.

Birthday boy

KU tonight will recognize the 150th birthday of James Naismith, the inventor of basketball.


Scott MacWilliams 10 years, 6 months ago

Happy birthday Dr. Naismith!!

And thanks for giving us such a great game to play on these lousy winter nights!!


blackhawkjayhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

I wish Self would quit making the remarks about " we won't do what our fans want", it's a little insulting. I would hope that Jayhawk fans would at least have some voice in things that impact our university. I appreciate Self coming out and basically saying "screw Mizzou" but how about leaving us out of it?

Lonnie Edgecomb 10 years, 6 months ago

Somtimes what you say is not what we mean. How would you like to have the same question ask 4 weeks in a row...

nicka 10 years, 6 months ago are a fan. why should you have any say in how the university handles the basketball schedule?

REHawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Yeah, Bill isn't chalking up optimum fan support with such statements. I imagine that he will take a close look at his wording here and choose to spin the fan thing a bit differently in the future. He is known as an upfront guy who doesn't pull punches with recruits, referees. or competitors. But to irritate some of his fondest followers and supporters, well....

KUFan90 10 years, 6 months ago

Really? As a fan, I don't find these comments irritating at all.

What is the up a poll on and ask "Should we schedule games with MU when they are in the SEC?" and based on the response rate decide how to proceed?

I think he is saying that while fans don't set the schedule, right now it appears that everyone (fans and administration alike) is in agreement that we don't feel any kind of obligation to continue to play MU.

Don't read too much into these comments, and don't act like as a fan you somehow deserve to be consulted about these kinds of decisions.

REHawk 10 years, 6 months ago

KC Star write-ups indicate that former Tiger players and families are not pleased with the SEC leap, essentially wiping the slate of past historic contests with Kansas in the border showdowns. Also, the Mizzou athletic dept. would appear to cry for continued scheduling with the Jayhawks in all sports. For the near future, at least, I hope that Kansas athletics follows Bill Self's determination to shun those deserters. Their packing bags and departing makes for a major divorce. Here's hoping that no Kansas institution agrees to play them other than in March tournament action. When they feel the need to occupy Arrowhead or the Sprint Center, let em try to lure the turncoat Huskers down for a rivalry...or beg Colorado to help fill their in-state scheduling.

MorganR 10 years, 6 months ago

I took coach Self's remark to mean he would make the final scheduling calls for non-league games based on his opinion of the best combination of games for his team. I think we would all agree this is appropriate discretion for any coach. Most of us agree with the salient part of his comment that he would not be pressured by Missouri and their fan base to schedule future games.

I am confident coach Self meant no disrespect to KU fans, We have all heard coach Self remark on numerous occasions how appreciative he is of KU fans, I think his comment was more based on reality. Since there isn't a scientific poll for fans to give their collective opinion regarding the schedule, it would be difficult for coach Self, or anyone, to know the true sentiment of the majority of the fans.

Shawn Otrimble 10 years, 6 months ago

I don't blame coach Self for being pissed at Mizzou, I'm pissed, not because of them going to the SEC, but how they did it. They started a lot of this mess with flirting with the Big 10, and after the dust cleared and A@M's departure. It looked like there was some stability. Then Missouri selfishly started courting the SEC right after they promised a commitment to the Big 12. Which than really puts KU,KSU, and ISU behind the 8 ball. The remarks I've read from Mizzou fans are "you would of done it too if you were wanted." I disagree, I think we will look after KSU in our decision process. All the posts I've read on ESPN from SEC coaches and officials are that they welcome the new TV market to SEC. Not once have I heard what a welcome Missouri will bring to SEC football or basketball. Missouri in their own arrogance are being used by the SEC, their greed should be held accountable. I've read that all major Texas Universities will be boycotting playing Texas A@M to hurt they're recruiting in Texas. All BIG 12 schools should do the same to Missouri. I disliked Missouri before, but now I can't stand them. I will cheer for any team that plays them and hope they become the SEC doormat.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 6 months ago

You're a Kansas alumni and you only "disliked" them??

You, my friend, are a tolerant soul!!

Bellator 10 years, 6 months ago

Bill Self is the head of the Kansas Basketball program so I think he can say what he wants. Based on my unscientific poll it seems at least 90% of the KU fans agree with him as well.

I'm one that will be in NYC to watch us play Kentucky and if I get the chance to talk to Self at the hotel I'll make sure I tell him I support his comments and position 100% and keep doing what you're doing.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 6 months ago

Can we reiterate our stance on Missouri again? And how about another time?

Granitestatah 10 years, 6 months ago

At first blush I was a little bit torn on this issue. I tried to think of it objectively and tell myself that KU would have done the same thing had the PAC-12, BIG 1G, or ACC came calling. That it would be hypocritical to blame MIZWHO for doing the same that we would have done having been faced with the same options.

Then I remember that Misery started this whole mess by throwing themselves shamelessly at the Big 1G twice and then whining about the instability within the conference that they had help to create. As disheartening as it is that we will no longer get to enjoy one of (if not the) greatest rivalry in sport, KU should not reward Misery for lighting a fire on board the SSBig12 and then jumping ship.

Self is right to come out strongly on this, as my guess is that he was privvy to some high level discussions and knows how close KU came to being left out of the BCS party. He also knows who is primarily responsible for this and is not going to reward said program with the satisfaction of profitting off of playing his school.

Take a five year hiatus and then start the rivalry back up, but no neutral site games at the Sprint Center. This will only help Mizzery regain a foothold in the KC metro area. Let that ship sail.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 6 months ago

Coach Self is extremely annoyed about the questions regarding Mizzou. They don't want to be a part of the Big 12 during a time of instability, so in Bill Self's eyes they need to be out of the picture entirely. I agree with him. And I'm not sour that he doesn't listen to fans. Read over the comments on this site for a few minutes and you'll see why you can't listen to every over-zealous fan that has an opinion. That's why HCBS gets paid the big bucks.

David Black 10 years, 6 months ago

No neutral site games. No Missouri games....let them stay at the bottom of the SEC. They screwed themselves by leaving so let's not reward them with a game! Rock Chalk

Chris Shaw 10 years, 6 months ago

As it was a couple of weeks ago with the Tarc decision..........this week could be equally just as important, but hopefully a positive. I don't mind Tony Parker waiting until spring because I think that increases the small chance of KU getting Parker considering he was suppose to choose over the next two weeks.

However, I don't like the idea of White waiting till spring to make a decision. He's been to the Legends game, been on campus, and knows Self and company want him in the Crimson and Blue. Need to lock White up here in the early signing period so KU and staff can focus on another "Big" and concentrate on the class of 2013. KU needs a break this week and get White to sign "Early". Fingers crossed!

Ben Simonett 10 years, 6 months ago

I agree,

I'm also not happy with the interest being shown in Cothron, why is so much interest being shown to academically shady recruits lately?

Chris Shaw 10 years, 6 months ago

KU recruited him hard and then backed off late in his recruitment. Maybe they did know something. Academics with these kids can be funny sometimes, but you can only hope that the multiple JUCO schools he has been to will allow him to qualify in college. I don't really care either way as long as he can qualify and the NCAA clears him.

Hey, Dwayne Wade was "Prop 48" so this may be beneficial for McLemore, Traylor and even Cothron should he choose KU. With that said, I would like to get Parker, but I am not getting any hopes up.

hawk4evr2 10 years, 6 months ago

Thank goodness our fans don't do the scheduleing when I read that some of you would be in favor of scheduleing MU after a "cooling off" period. There is no reason on earth for KU to ever play MU in anything ever again. They made their bed. Let them lie in it. The same people that would want to schedule MU are probably the same ones that want to keep TG around for another year and think that Lew Perkins was the saviour of KU athletics. It's time to pull your heads out and realize that KU needs to start doing what is right for KU and only KU. Not whats right for KC, not what is politically correct, and not what is the easiest decision. Somebody has to start playing hard ball and and have the balls to make some very tough, but nessecary decisions before we have a chance to right this ship. I commend HCBS for saying what needs to be said and having to courage to voice his opinion. I wish we would hear that from more of the leaders of the athletic department.

hawk316 10 years, 6 months ago

Jeff Withey says, "It’s the beginning of the season. I want to do it again. It definitely helps my confidence. I’m trying to build off that and continue with that momentum and bring that style of play into this next game.”

Funny thing about confidence It can enable a good player to perform great, and the lack of confidence can induce a great player to underachieve.

Jeff, be confident. Be very confident!

REHawk 10 years, 6 months ago

kushaw, I have grown weary of the recruit signing waits so often in recent years that I am inclined to put it all to sleep and disregard news updates on the recruiting scene. It represents one of the few elements of "everything Jahawk hoops" that I find to be a daily downer during heavy recruiting/signing periods. Bill Self has a history of doing well in fetching newcomers who can be coached into league championship team members. I'm at the point of skipping the columns regarding search and woo while waiting hopefully for breaking news of actual commits and signers. So long as we compete annually for the conference title I feel reassured that Self and staff will continue to feed and train enough quality folk to keep most of us happy and content.

gojhawx 10 years, 6 months ago

With the internet we're privy to so much more recruiting news than there was 10-15 years ago. It certainly does make me think about possible recruits way too much, but I don't think I can keep from grabbing as much info as possible. REHawk, I guess what I'm saying is I feel your pain.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 6 months ago

Great point, but if Self and Co. don't get some good quality recruits solidified here in the early signing periord than that reasoning above could be in jeopardy as early as next year.

The time is amongst us to be a little concerne. The recruitment of Tarc believe it or not actually could have made things relaxing or more stressful and unfortunately they are a little more stressful at the moment.

You know, KU has had so much in the pipeline over Self's tenure..........he could afford to go out and get 1 or 2 guys in a given class and still be okay. As of now, he needs to bring in some big classes and it's amazing that the Tarc decision was truly the line in the sand.

Woody Cragg 10 years, 6 months ago

Why all the anxiety over this stuff-it's just stuff?! Life is good, enjoy it. Let Bill be the boss & let the chips fall. And let misery go-for good! Now no one has to worry about sneaking out of Columbia after setting the fire! Is useless to fret anyway, just enjoy kicking butt one day at a time. And be a good sport when you fall short. That's the biggest downer of sports today-no sportsmanship. Ahhhhh, for the glory days before the trash talk & Ali, when your play said it all! Just like the BG Dipper! JMO.

Bellator 10 years, 6 months ago

Globaljay I agree but on this day when you lament the trash talk of Ali then I'll praise one of the greats of ALL time who always let his performances make his statements.

Joe Frazier, RIP. In my humble opinion one of the greatest fighters of all time.

Do yourself a favor and watch round 15 of the their first fight.

Woody Cragg 10 years, 6 months ago

+1, Hats off Bellator, thanks for the link. Started watching the Gillette Friday Night Fights with Dad in the 50's, so I remember the days of Floyd Robinson, Gene Fulmer, Rocky Marciano, Willie Pep, & yes, the Great Joe Frazier. Always thought he was dissed because he fought with so many good heavies, (at 205 he was really a cruiser), and Ali was a quicker lip with a faster jab. But what a warrior! Ali was really the first high profile athlete to get alot of pub on his trash talk & I never really cared for him when I was younger. Also, draft dodging didn't appeal to guys going to Nam either. But times change & we'll all go sometime. Again, thanks for the link & enjoy the game tonight.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

"On Bill and Fizzou"

"You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it."

--Atticus Finch, To Kill a Mocking Bird

Let us try to see this from Bill Self's point of view, shall we?

Bill is our coach, a great coach, and an exceptional human being in most apparent regards.

Bill has a value system.--something Missourians have never had and never claimed to possess.

Bill has a family and a home where incest are not tolerated--something Missourians still cannot conceive of.

Bill came from Oklahoma, where Bud Wilkinson, Chuck Fairbanks and Barry Switzer beat MU senseless in football and Hank Iba beat them senseless in basketball.

Bill knows the Missourians sports have always been mediocre, and when occasionally good have always choked.

But there is more to it.

Much more.

Self was turned down for the MU job in favor of arguably one of the least competent, least principled head coaches in recent memory--Queen Snyder.

Remember that when Self was turned down by MU, Self had turned around ORU, gone to an Elite Eight with Tulsa and if memory serves me (though I could be wrong on this last point) turned Illinois in a budding national power.

And Fizzou hired Queen Snyder off of Coach Cheap Shot's bench at Cancer Stick Juco, er Dook.

Next, Self has had to endure the heaping piles of scorn and insults and disgraces when in Columbia that all KU coaches endure and hate. No coach except perhaps Allen, a Missourian himself, has ever understood what going to Columbia entailed until he went their as a KU coach.

Self has had to endure this vile treatment even as he started out trying to respect and venerate the rivalry and speak kindly about the borderline competent cheater that was Norm Stewart, and the dubious failure that was Snyder and the smiling Mike Anderson, who got lucky one season with DeMarre, but did nothing else savvy, except dump MU for UArk.

Note also, that none of these unprofessional sphincters in suits really reciprocated much professional curtesy at all to Self.

Self dutifully pulled his punches and did not beat MU coaches senseless for the most part, as he easily could have done a number of times, when their incompetent head coaches were on the ropes.

Next, Self has had his brilliant run of recruiting decimated by conference instability that was in fact initiated by MU a few years back.

Alohahawk 10 years, 6 months ago

The Atticus Finch quote is one that should be read to every student on their first day of grade school and every senior on their last day of high school.

Too many people forget that environment plays an integral part of growing up, and how it effects each person's thoughts, accomplishments and ideals. We all should put ourselves in the other person's shoes each time we are confronted by problems or an individual we don't want to acquaint with.*

*Possible exceptions would be: Cal Lie Pari, and most, if not all, Missery fans. Can't really see climbing into any of their skins and walking around.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

Bill Self has seen the conference nearly come unglued in turn by Texas and OU; which further rocked his recruiting.

Then Self saw the very administration of the very university that had not hired him, then made his life miserable with conference instability, tin pot coaches, and undisciplined fans, stupidly put in charge of trying to save the very thing that Self had cherished as a traditional midwesterner--the Big 8/Big 12 Conference legacy.

Next, add in that Self had one recruit, Braeden Anderson, denied him by an academic committee that may have had an MU member, or may have been fed info by an MU member (MU has had a long history of being stool pidgins on small matters even as they cheat egregiously).

Along the way, Self has also had to put up with a tremendous amount of interference from MU regarding BenMac, who had preferred KU for years until MU hired a head coach, Frank Haith, operating under the cloud of infraction investigations at his previous job in Miami, and suddenly BenMac's mother develops a keen new level of loyalty to MU and keeps him from signing for a long time.

Then just when it seemed Self was lining up a mega-class of recruits with Zack, Perry and Kaleb, plus others, these chronically unprincipled ignoramuses at MU announce they bolting again, but then neither bolt, not stay, but say they are in deliberations during the crucial period that Kaleb is about to sign. And then Kaleb opts for Sean "Mini-Me" Miller at Helmet Hair State College of the Cactus.

Frankly, I think Self has every justification (and my unconditional blessing) to despise, spit on, and piss on the earth, bricks and mortar, and people of the University of Missouri.

My fondest hope is the schools of the SEC discover quickly what the University of Missouri and its people are like, and that they encourage UK and UArk to beat MU as senseless in basketball as KU has for the last century.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

MU people are stupid, coarse, inbred masochists that bath infrequently, prefer corruption to fairness, and choose the wrong side of any issue 9 times out of ten.

MU people require a good beating often and by someone that knows how.

They are use to not winning conference titles, or national championships in either football, or basketball.

They are used to being severely beaten by most top teams.

And on the rare occasions that they actually do have good teams, they are used to losing close games that cost them titles and championships.

If you do not beat them mercilessly and regularly as they have been in the Big 6, Big 8 and Big 12 for a century, they will not know what to do with themselves and might in fact become a danger to themselves.

Dear SEC people, KU has dutifully beaten MU senseless in basketball for over a century. We have upheld our end of the bargain with civilization.

OU and then OU, Nebraska and Texas, have beaten them senseless in football for at least half a century. They have fulfilled their end of the bargain with civilization.

If the South truly does have the honor it claims, if the South truly does stand for any civilized values, if dignity and refinement still mean anything in the South, then by all means take over the unpleasant, but necessary task of beating MU senseless in all sports as well.

Civilization depends upon it.

And when you experience Missouri fans, don't tell us we didn't warn you.

Bill Self is a gentlemen compared to me.

Before writing this, I printed out a copy of the picture of Brady Deaton and his interim powder monkey President that have disgraced these web pages for too many days and placed it in the litter box of my cat, then put him in position. I came back shortly, and my cat, who recognizes something vile when he steps on it, had relieved himself thoroughly on the face of Mr. Deaton and his powder monkey interim President.

And here is the basketball god's truth.

When we run into MU in the NCAA tournament, if they ever get good enough again to get back into it, we will probably hang 150 on them.

And I will ask Coach Self, "Why'd ya let up on 'em, Coach? You should have hung 200 on the losers."

Rock Chalk!

P.S.: I am delighted to be rid of Missouri. I am not like so many others that mourn the passing of a rivalry. I cheer the passing of an impacted feces that is now, after over a century of discomfort, being flushed southward. And I suspect the SEC too will wish to flush Fizzou in time.

Redlandsjhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Wow! Jaybate brings main batteries to bear.

It's been long known you don't suffer fools, but you seem to have been quicker on the draw than usual. First you took some tool apart, then you launch a pre-emptive strike on Brady haters and now the the perfect mizzou farewell. Is this a new tack or has this been building up? It's gonna be a fun season if the former and hope you're feeling better if the latter.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 6 months ago

Hello and welcome we have some real class on this site!! :)

PVJayhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Bonjour Oaky!

Glad to be back. Hope you are well.

PVJayhawk 10 years, 6 months ago


I made a comment 3 articles back similar to but much shorter than Jaybate's in case you did not see it. We seem to think alike on this matter of mu character.

It occurred to me that they should all be sent to Azkaban for life.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 6 months ago

My favorite part of this entire post! I couldn't stop laughing! Classic!

"Before writing this, I printed out a copy of the picture of Brady Deaton and his interim powder monkey President that have disgraced these web pages for too many days and placed it in the litter box of my cat, then put him in position. I came back shortly, and my cat, who recognizes something vile when he steps on it, had relieved himself thoroughly on the face of Mr. Deaton and his powder monkey interim President."

FLJHK 10 years, 6 months ago

Beautiful. Bate is already in mid-season form.

jbsd31 10 years, 6 months ago

I'm a little bummed at the possibility of not playing mu in the future. Not living in KC anymore & having to deal with mu fan on a daily basis, my kids will grow up with no real reason to despise mu if we're not playing every year. A sad end a family tradation..haha. I did like the little jab Coach Self threw in about it not being an important school like TX or OU leaving. My guess is that they will end up playing a yearly game somewhere down the line in KC, but by that time it won't mean much too much. You'll never be able to capture what you had when it was a conference game at AFH, or even the Paige.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 6 months ago

Nice article on yahoo sports about the mourning of the passing of the SEC with the addition of Missouri and Texas A&M.

As stated before , this was a move to grab television sets, not classic football rivalries.

Things Missouri will realize when the wake up next morning to a bedfellow that looked a lot better in a euphoric stupor the night before;

1] They have to start a whole new set of rivalries.

2] Their fan base just got hundreds of drive miles added to their away games.

3] Because of scheduling, they may have a home game against Alabama maybe once every ten years.

4] They are now a bottom feeder for athletic budgets compared to their new brethern and will need to come up 30-40 million just to be competitve...and that doesn't take into account the big boys continuing to raise theirs.

5] Most of the SEC requires a subsidy from student fees...currently Missouri doesn't. "Hey, Dad, I need an extra $500 to allow us to have a football team. No, the tickets are extra."

6] Sure the new money will be significant....however, they seemed to have forgotten that everyone else gets it as well.

I am with Bill..f-bomb them and the horses they rode in on.

Woody Cragg 10 years, 6 months ago

Sounds like I'm not the only missery hater that's endured a buildup & blowout. I can remember after whipping Norm's butt many times thinkin' "now, just burn the damn place down!" These are the d*#cks that started this whole realignment crap in the first place. Greater eloquence is abound for sure, but I won't miss them one friggin bit. And Oak, #4 is likely the reason they hired Haith. He must be a fundraiser cause he's a pi$$ poor excuse for a coach-as bad as the queen IMO. Malice intended.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 6 months ago

Actually, spare the's not their fault their riders are total D-Bags!!

FLJHK 10 years, 6 months ago

The rivalry with MU existed not because of the rightful disdain all Kansans hold toward that woeful state, but because we were CONFERENCE rivals. The hatred was just icing. They chose to end the conference rivalry.

MU has revealed its true character. Only a few months ago, they publicly stated that they were committed 100% to being a part of the Big 12 and helping to ensure its success. I guess someone needs to show them what a "commitment" actually means.

I'd like our administration to commit to NEVER playing an MU team in anything ever again, so long as we remain in different conferences.

Steve Brown 10 years, 6 months ago

Just announced Frank Haith still wants to play Kansas annually, fine go coach TCU.

AsadZ 10 years, 6 months ago

As a fan I don't feel anything wrong with his comments. As a matter of fact he is right on money. Very well said.

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