Kansas defeats Pittsburg State, 84-55

  • 7 p.m., Nov. 1, 2011
  • Allen Fieldhouse, Lawrence, KS

Wednesday, November 2, 2011

Little ‘Dipper’: Jeff Withey matches Wilt Chamberlain

Kansas center Jeff Withey gets a hand Pittsburg State forward JaVon McGee's shot during the first half Tuesday, Nov. 1, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas center Jeff Withey gets a hand Pittsburg State forward JaVon McGee's shot during the first half Tuesday, Nov. 1, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.



KU vs. Pittsburg State

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Kansas defeated Pittsburg State, 84-55, Tuesday, Nov. 1, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 84-55 exhibition victory over Pittsburg State on Nov. 1, 2011.

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Jeff Withey now has something in common with Kansas University basketball legend/fellow 7-footer Wilt Chamberlain.

Both have attained the rarest of rare stat feats — a triple-double in a Jayhawk uniform — yet unofficially.

Withey’s 18-point, 12-rebound, 10-block outing came in Tuesday’s 84-55 victory over Pittsburg State in Allen Fieldhouse. Numbers in exhibitions, of course, don’t count in the record books.

Chamberlain’s triple-doubles also went unobserved because blocks weren’t recorded at KU until the 1970s and the NCAA in the 80s.

“I didn’t know until I came out of the game, and coach (Bill Self) said, ‘Good job, you got a triple-double.’ I was shocked,” said Withey, who had back-to-back blocks with two minutes left to record KU’s first triple-double since Cole Aldrich (20 rebounds, 13 points, 10 blocks) against Dayton in the 2009 NCAA Tournament. That’s the only official triple-double in KU history.

“I love blocking shots. The opportunity was there. It’s something I do. It was ‘all-on’ tonight,” added junior pivot Withey, who noted he averaged eight blocks a game his senior year at San Diego’s Horizon High with a career-best mark of 15 rejections. “I definitely want to make my mark here.”

Withey had a big stat night despite suffering a left ankle sprain on a block attempt with 6:46 left in the first half.

“I heard something pop, and right away I started worrying. I said, ‘Not again,’’’ said Withey, who has been injured often. “I’m blessed it’s nothing serious. I’m just going to be sore a few days.”

Withey thinks his tender ankle may have contributed to an 8-of-15 free-throw performance. He was 5-of-10 from the field in his 31 minutes.

“I obviously need to work on my free throws,” Withey said, “but I think my ankle hurt me with the shot — being on my toes.”

Self said he thought Conner Teahan (21 points, seven rebounds, three assists) was sensational on a night Elijah Johnson, Tyshawn Taylor (suspensions) and Thomas Robinson (hyperextended knee) sat on the bench in street clothes.

Yet Withey was not far behind.

“I think it’s good Jeff got a triple-double,” Self said, adding, “he could have had 22-23 (points) if he made his free throws. The first half he was not a factor (five points, three boards, three blocks in 15 minutes). He was the second half. He’s pretty good at blocking and altering. I think he can be one of the better shot blockers in our league.”

Yet ... “I told him to not get too excited. They’re 6-4. You should block shots if you are 7-foot. Still, though, he’s got great timing. I thought he and Teahan were bright spots.”

Self said overall, “It was ugly. The first half was hard to watch, but I thought we tried hard.”

KU led, 32-27, at the break.

“Our on-the-ball defense on the perimeter from our big guys was horrific,” Self noted. “We didn’t have any low-post presence the first half. We got it inside a little bit to Jeff the second half. Naadir Tharpe I thought was going to set the freshman record for turnovers in the first 10 minutes. He calmed down and did some nice things,” he added of freshman point Tharpe, who also almost had a triple-double that included a negative category — nine turnovers, eight assists to go with 12 points in 34 minutes.

“Naadir made a couple of shots and did some good things,” noted Self, whose team also will be without Johnson and Taylor in Tuesday’s exhibition finale against Fort Hays State (7 p.m., Allen).

Robinson should be back for that contest. KU’s regular-season opener is 7 p.m., Nov. 11 versus Towson.


kusportsdotcom 10 years, 6 months ago

For everyone who's going to rag on Withey, 'cause some of you are...

... “I told him to not get too excited. They’re 6-4. You should block shots if you are 7-foot. Still, though, he’s got great timing. I thought he and Teahan were bright spots.”

Yes, the triple double came against inferior competition. But he did what he had to do, and performed well. He is soft, and he's thin. But that's him. He's not a bruiser and won't ever be one, no matter how much time he spends in the weight room. That's just his body. But he's long, has a good hook shot (when he puts some arc on it), and has a pretty good stroke for a big guy. T-Rob's the big banger. Withey is Withey, and last night, that was pretty good.

onlylookin2score 10 years, 6 months ago

We've been playing exhibition games against sub-par opponets for a looooonnggg time now..

In that context, bottom line: Jeff Withey is one of 3 Jayhawks to EVER record a Triple Double, official or unofficial... That is saying something..

In my opinion there is literally nothing negative to say about his performance, regardless of an uninspired half....

HOW MANY TIMES did Rush, Vaughn, Pierce, Gooden, Collison, Chalmers, Hinrich, Aurthur, Walters, Jamison, or Ostertag have an off half???.. None of those dudes ever put up a Trip-Dub.

kesmithstl1 10 years, 6 months ago

and I would trade Withey for any one of those guys in a heartbeat! That shows how meaningless that stat is!

David Lara 10 years, 6 months ago

Nope, couldn't be more wrong. Saying you would trade a guy who just made his first major impact in a KU game for any one of those "legends of KU"... big freaking statement there! What does that have to do with the stat? That shows how meaningless that statement is!

kesmithstl1 10 years, 6 months ago

I'm saying that triple double is the equivalent of me doing the same in a 5'7 and under league (I'm 6'2 in case you didn't get that).

Chris Shaw 10 years, 6 months ago

I am a little baffled at the large number of negative posts in regards to Withey on the post game thread here at kusports as well as the threads over at theshiver. For a guy who just recorded a triple double, I think there was some pretty harsh criticism that was/is unwarranted towards J-Wit.

Granted, Pitt State is a D-II school and most of their players were 6'6" or shorter, however,for a KU team that is missing 3 starters and almost 100 minutes, I thought Withey did quite well in his first meaningful game with major minutes in a KU uniform.

What I mean is, even before we all found out about T-Rob, EJ, and Taylor not playing in this game, what were your realistic expectations of Withey? I know for me, if Withey could get 21-26 minutes this season with 5-7ppg, 8-10 rebounds, and a couple of blocks per game as the anchor in the middle of defense..........that is perfectly fine for me playing along side T-Rob (As T-Rob would get most of the focus).

With that said, it's amazing to me how a guy with a rolled ankle, gets double teamed for most of the first half, limited practice time with the starting unit and is playing in his first meaningful game at center gets ridiculed so much? Doesn't make any sense to me!

I keep hearing 1) He hasn't changed from last year 2) He's soft 3) He's weak 4) He's not strong and some other things I would care not to discuss. Considering all the factors above he did get to the FT line 15 times! I mean, you have to be somewhat aggressive in order to get to the FT line for 15 attempts. I also saw Withey get to the rim twice by putting the ball on the floor from the FT line.

I don't know, I understand Withey isn't the most graceful player, but as long as the kid is efficient, productive, working hard, and causing havoc in the middle along side T-Rob............isn't that all we ask of from Withey? IMO, I think some posters are confusing soft or unaggressive with not being graceful.

I don't know, with T-Rob out of the lineup I thought this kid really stepped up and showed tremendous improvement from last season. Sure, he has lot's of things he needs to work on, but that's what these exhibition games are for. Great Game J-Wit and I look forward to seeing your maturation over the course of the season. Dunk that Baby!

onlylookin2score 10 years, 6 months ago

Who are these douche nozzles, right? I'm all for fan solidarity but c'mon. My previous post says it all:

You can't hate on a guy that has accomplished a feat that through out the entire spanse of KU's basketball history over 99% of his fellow Jayhawks have failed to...

IMO Self should have made a bigger deal of it... Maybe he will going forward

Gordon Penny 10 years, 6 months ago

Hey, he isn't Chenoweth. Give the guy some slack!

ku_foaf 10 years, 6 months ago

Fans treated Chenoweth terribly. He only had trouble living up to the expectations, for whatever reasons. He was very good as a freshman and sophmore. He definitely was not a bad player. He just didn't continue to improve, and I think the pressure got to him.

Sam Constance 10 years, 6 months ago

Withey is going to be a shock to all of his doubters this year. I've been saying it since the end of last season.

Plus, Withey would eat the lunch of every single critic of his strength and toughness.

A good number of KU fans have become quite a sour bunch lately, what with all the conference realignment, football embarrassments and recruiting "failures". Unfortunately for Jeff, he seems to be one of the targets for said general displeasure.

Jocelyn Kennedy 10 years, 6 months ago

THANK YOU!!! I am so proud of him as we all should be as fans!!!

baldwinjhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

He's 10 times better than i hoped for... Go jeff!

Alohahawk 10 years, 6 months ago

First of all: Congratulations to Jeff Withey! Nice start to what everyone hopes is your break-out year, big guy.

Pittsburg State being a Div. II team, this game leaves more questions open than answered. Not having seen the game, the stats would seem to illustrate that Pitt. St. was in foul trouble in the second half. Thus, KU increased the spread once the competition lost its best players. And KU only led by a few at halftime. I'd hate to have been in the Hawk's locker-room at the half. Or who knows, maybe Self was surprised and pleased that the Hawks were ahead. (?)

Unless KU improves its freethrow percentage, they are going to be in trouble this season. 19 for 37, Ouch!!!

Turnovers were high, but that should improve with the addition of the starters. As Self said, Tharpe had most of his in the first half. Take away 5 of his 9, and the team total drops to 18. Again, the starters should cut those considerably.

With his triple double, Withey demonstrated that he is capable (albeit against lesser talent). If nothing else, this game should give him some confidence. Let's hope the ankle sprain isn't serious. That's all we need: Two walking wounded in the post position.

Tharpe, like most freshmen, has to become acclimated to the faster speeds in Division I BBall. However, his large number of assists (most likely leading to his high turnover rate) illustrates he was trying too hard to involve his teammates. Nothing wrong with that. He just needs to be smarter with his passing, which should come with more experience. Add his two 3's and that is a positive.

Having five Hawks score at least 9 points is very promising. As are the fast break points (26), and the points in the paint (40). Typical Self offense.

We all knew Teahan could shoot the 3. And, he rebounded well. Now, how did he do on defense? (Didn't see the game, so can't say. But Pitts. State's shooting percentage was low, so that could say something.)

Pittsburg St. held their own in the rebounding department, but adding TRob should help considerably. Where was Wesley? He only had two. Since that is against a Dividion II team, it doesn't bode well. He needs to be more agressive.

The glass is half full, Hawks. Can't wait till KU is back to full strength on the 11th.


Alohahawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Oops, fast break points were 21, not 26.

Marcia Parsons 10 years, 6 months ago

In answer to your question, Wesley had foul trouble, so probably was avoiding mixing it up too much under the basket.

Woody Cragg 10 years, 6 months ago

I was actually recording his blocks the whole game. Dave Phillips was off by one in the first half. Certainly this is somewhat about PSU's tallest guy being 6'6", but 10 rejections is damn tall cotton, even for a 7 footer. Good for Jeff, he needed that! Conner was hot all night from 3, & will get lots of good minutes this yr for sure. Wesly is going to be a steady guy also by tournament time. Tharpe will be a great pg as he reduces to's, He made some nice passes in the lane & will be a great pick & roll guy when his teamates know how to execute it. All that said, we have absolutely no depth. Also, ranked at 13, I'm sorry to say is likely waaaaay off. Travis looked out of sorts last night, possibly due to unfamiliar rotation. We will see flashes of greatness at times, but we'll only go as far this year as our starting 5 will take us. It's painfully obvious how badly the NCAA's rulings have dropped the hammer on KU this yr. So take it easy on them men, remember they're just kids & they read this stuff too. You know Self is beatin' the crap out of em' daily & that's enough. JMO

jayhawkeresu 10 years, 6 months ago

You guys are killing me. I want him to succeed as much as anyone. Obviously his success, or lack there of, will greatly influence the outcome of this season. But if you are only looking at his stats as an indication of things to come then you obviously didn't watch the game. It was Ugly. At some point (early in the season) his length and height are going to catch up with his extreme lack of athleticism, strength, quickness, agility and coordination. I wish he had at least a couple of these attributes... but its just not gonna happen.

Can he overcome these weaknesses? Yes. And as one of the biggest fans out there I pray to John Naismith he does. But the only way he can accomplish this is to make up for it with intangibles. Hes got to be tenacious. Hes got to have fire. He has to show a relentless aggressive passion to defensively punish everyone who dares enter HIS lane. Offensively? Please dunk the damn ball!

What worries me the most? He showed none of this last night. The dude showed 0 passion. No aggressiveness. Its like hes was just "out there." If somehow a fire can be lit under this kid I think he can be a solid contributor to take a little pressure off of Robinson and clog the lane defenselessly. But until then I'm not expecting anything more than the second coming of an even less talented Eric Chenowith. Just don't expect too much. I'm not hating. I'm simply be realistic. You should be too.

RockCaCO3 10 years, 6 months ago

First game of the season. That's being realistic.

Nobody looked that great, yet Withey is the one people bag on.

kesmithstl1 10 years, 6 months ago

bagged on him last year too! Where's the improvement?

kesmithstl1 10 years, 6 months ago

I could care less about his offense! Not what he is there for. It's very discouraging though when his man gets an offensive rebound, and block Withey's shot when he is giving up 6 inches!

David Lara 10 years, 6 months ago

Are you serious or just a total tool?? Where's the improvement?? Are you saying a triple double was pretty normal for Withey last year? Or for anyone else on the entire team? Including NBA lottery picks? What the hell is with you? Of all the stupid Mother F-ing things to complain about...

kesmithstl1 10 years, 6 months ago

yikes, take it personal wiseapple! Pitt St. is awful, so yes, Withey could have probably gotten a triple double against them last year. Look at Bill Self's comments regarding the height of PSU! Hell, I don't know you wiseapple, but I'm saying if you were 7'0 tall playing against PSU, you would record 5, 5, and 5!

jayhawkmike 10 years, 6 months ago

I pray to god you know that his name is james naismith!

jayhawkeresu 10 years, 6 months ago

Haha. Hey, I guess one of my missing intangibles includes proof reading!

yates33333 10 years, 6 months ago

I don't know why so much is made of your comments. I don't pay much attention to them. I can't understand why they are considered worth opposing. Are you some great basketball guru publishing your views under an anonymous name, and they know who you are? I doubt it. Thus I can't figure it out. It's almost like paying a dollar for a dime. Check that, for a penny.

Andy Tweedy 10 years, 6 months ago

One thing I must say in response to your post is that passion isn't always something you can judge so easily from your armchair. Some are vocal, some are not. When I watch my daughter's soccer team, I don't say a word, remain composed and rarely show a lot of emotion. But I can guarantee you nonetheless that I am every bit as passionate about her doing well as you hope Withey is about his own game. And when I played I was the same way. I just didn't feel the need to jump up and down and rant and rave. It can be pretty unfair to label someone as not passionate just because they aren't showing it the way you wish they were.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 6 months ago

You may be right Jayhawkeresu, I did only watch the game through justintv so it very well could have showed a total different J-Wit had I watched the game on the Jayhawk Network or ESPN.

planojayhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Could you please share the link to the justintv so I can watch the next 2 games, since these are not going to be shown on ESPN or major channels?


Nick Cole 10 years, 6 months ago

Check your messages on your profile. There could be something of interest in there.

Kent Wells 10 years, 6 months ago

Hey Shaw, you should have watched the game in 3D glasses too.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 6 months ago

The new, improved kuwells avatar. interesting!

dylans 10 years, 6 months ago

This team looked absolutely terrible. Without the 3 players returning with talent and experience (TT TRob EJ) the Hawks looked sad. IF that was the lineup this season KU would win at most 4 games in the big 12 (- 4 + 1 1/2) BUT it is not and the team will be tough to beat by the season's end.

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 6 months ago

+1 Nice game for someone 'who didn't even care'. Can't wait to see him motivated!

Dyrk Dugan 10 years, 6 months ago

i was pleasantly surprised at how the game went. Teahen hit shots when open....Tharpe put the ball in people's hands to score. Yes, he has to cut down on TOs, but what frosh pt. guard doesn't?

Young goes and gets the ball. Releford looked good slashing to the basket.

and Withey? what is there not to like about a triple double? i don't care if it's vs. the little sisters, it's a GOOD game. will he get one vs. UK? highly likely not....but who cares? we didn't embarrass ourselves last night....we saw the potential in our backups....and we blew out a team with four starters back, that would seem to be a decent DII school.

a promising start. now, let's just get healthy and get better.

ku_foaf 10 years, 6 months ago

Him having a great night is the best news I've heard this fall.

southwindjay 10 years, 6 months ago

Anyone who is negative about Withey should check themselves. I see a lot of promise and a kid that has worked hard and come a long way from what we have seen. Yes, he needs to be stronger and yes there are a lot of things he needs to work on but come on really? I am very happy to have him in a KU jersey and will enjoy watching him grow wihin thw system. So, chill exhibition game where there were enough nerves for those young ment o fill another field house. I enjoyed what I saw.

Ludwig Supraphonic 10 years, 6 months ago

I found Withey's progress encouraging. Since we're thin up front; I do hope he will go to the hoop more. We will need to put offensive pressure on their bigs. The safe lay-up won't draw fouls. Obviously, our bigs need to convert free throws.

rcjh88 10 years, 6 months ago

Jeff was not good last night no matter what his stats say. The tallest guy on the other team was 6'6 and he was getting pushed under the basket and couldn't hold his position in the post. However when teams are doubling TRob, Jeff will look better than he did tonight. I think he will be able to contribute, but to me Wesley showed more potential because he was physical. Releford was a let down for me as well, not because of anything he did wrong, but because he didn't get himself involved enough in the game. He is someone who I could see leading us in scoring from time to time, but he has to get involved. Conner played very well but if he doesn't play better defense than he did last night he will not see very many minutes for Bill Self. He plays hard but just can't guard anyone and gets lost when he has to rotate to help. Tharpe impressed me, I think he will be really good and he will be able to give EJ and Tyshawn a little rest when needed. He will look even better when he is out there with the better players. All in all I thought it was a great effort last night and that is all you can ask for. I'm excited to see TRob out there and see how much that changes things.

Joe Baker 10 years, 6 months ago

rcj- Nothing wrong with positive criticism. Withey's numbers were great even in light of your points. He was pushed around and got the points. He played 6-6 and still grabbed rebounds? Pretty damn impressive.

Withey is not physical. He is athletic and all finesse. He will not push and bang people in the paint. He's going to rely on his skills, not his strength. I think he is a great compliment to TRob and Wesley. They can be our twins this year.

Your post sums up a great front court combination. Great point about TRob being doubled because if Jeff becomes a threat, they can't ignore him and it will open TRob.

Sam Constance 10 years, 6 months ago

Getting blocks requires far more than a comparative height advantage. If I see one more ignorant person dismiss Withey's TEN blocks with the wave of a hand and a dismissive comment about the height of the Gorillas, I'm going to scream.

Blocks require timing, anticipation, and graceful body control.

Withey won't likely be piling up 10 blocks against anyone again in his entire career. But he's going to be an inside force against even talented, longer teams.

I mean, come on. We're not talking about 2-3 blocks against Pitt State. We're talking about TEN. That's the kind of gawdy statistic that transcends matchups.

kesmithstl1 10 years, 6 months ago

Here's the thing with Withey. The same things we as fans are saying now (soft, no tenacity, not very strong, etc...), we said 3 years ago when he came into the program. If he is getting more than 20 minutes a game this year, KU is in trouble (against major competition).

He needs to develop a mean streak! I would like to see him foul more. Last night, perfect example. The 6'5 PSU lowered his shoulder and went straight into Withey (as you should against a shot blocker). Instead of standing his ground and pushing back, Withey looked content to sit back and attempt to block the shot. Didn't work. Same thing happened later in the game.

KU needs Withey in order to be successful this year.

Steve Kubler 10 years, 6 months ago

So you want him to foul more. They are short on big men so getting mean and working at fouling out would help the team in your eyes? Somehow this makes no sense. Fouling is occasionally a valid option but you only get 5 a game and even worse once you get 2 in the first half or 3 in the second your butt is spending a lot of time on the bench.

I see lots of room for improvement with Withey but when is that not true of any player? His, and most the rest of the teams first half was ugly. They played tight and most of their offense appeared rushed. The second half was a huge improvement in team play. Still a little rushed on the offensive end but as the game moved on you could see them begin to gel as a team.

Personally I think many of you need to take a deep breath and step back from the keyboard. Give it a couple of months and then when you have a valid sample size to reach a good conclusion fire away. Making your mind up now is pointless and can make you look stupid down the road.

I've been a rabid KUBB fan since the early 80's. There are always ups and downs and there always will be. This applies to every sport and every team and is why they bother to actually play the games.

kesmithstl1 10 years, 6 months ago

not foul more, just foul hard! If someone is pushing you around, push back harder. BTW, I don't see this team as a down. I still expect KU to win the conference, and compete for a top seed in the Big Dance. And you're right, we should wait a couple months to see how Withey does, but like I said, he hasn't improved where it counts in 3 years, so I don't see it happening in 2 months. Just my opinion.

Sam Constance 10 years, 6 months ago

"Here's the thing with Withey. The same things we as fans are saying now (soft, no tenacity, not very strong, etc...), we said 3 years ago when he came into the program."

Here's thing with fans. They tend to get a certain opinion in their heads and continue to bleet that same opinion, whether or not it's an informed opinion, ad nauseum.

So the fact that the same fans who couldn't see Withey's skills and potential when he came into the program still can't see what he brings to the table doesn't really say anything.

A guy who's seven feet tall isn't going to have the kind of base that a guy who's 6'8" is going to have, no matter how strong he gets. He's going to LOOK "weak" or "soft" when being banged on by shorter, stouter, lower center-of-gravity guys almost all the time, unless the seven-footer is a freak of nature like Shaquille O'Neal.

Aldrich learned how to compensate for his lankiness, but he never had the quickness that Withey has. I've said it before and will continue to shout it--Withey is going to surprise a lot of people this year...

...unless we're talking about people who say things like "I don't care what the stats say, Withey was terrible!"

kesmithstl1 10 years, 6 months ago

respectfully disagree! You see uncoordinated, I see soft! Remember, being mentally soft is just as bad!

Jack Wilson 10 years, 6 months ago

I read many of the posts .. really, what do we want or need out of Withey?

In reality, this KU team is going to be defined by defense. Think about it. TT .. solid, quick defender. EJ .. was the best defender last year at times, according to Self. Releford .. probably our best perimeter defender and a possible shut-down type guy. TRob .. foul trouble aside, a load for any 4 in a match-up, aside from a perimeter guy. Withey .. shot blocker, middle clogger.

We know we may not have the offense we have been used to. But the defense is there. We may win some games 61-58. Defense here is the name of the game, and Withey can be a key part of that. If he can add double-digit boards, and hit his free throws, he's doing his job.

And we know he's going to miss some easy shots, and lumber up and down the court, and drive us crazy because we see a 7 footer and expect dominance. He won't be dominant. He'll be the 5th best starter. We can hope for more, but don't expect it.

Ben Kane 10 years, 6 months ago

I enjoyed last night's game, it's good to have basketball back.

We are going to really need withey in there this year so him getting that extended time I think will go a long way for his confidence. he's like a better sasha kaun, not really out there for offense but when he gets it hopefully will put it down.

We also are going to need tharpe to give consistent minutes off the bench and my takeaway from last night on him is that he has a lot of talent but we are going to see a lot of freshman mistakes from him, hopefully he will get better at that as the season goes along.

If conner is going to be able to step up and hit the three for us like that it will only make the going easier on the inside.

i'm not going to condemn releford after last night, but it didn't look good. I think he tried to shoulder too much of the burden with the stars out and took himself out of his game.

sorry niko and JJ, don't see much playing time in your futures.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 6 months ago

It's official.

Jeff Withey has now been designated as the first Brady Morningstar Memorial Lightning Rod for Poster Negativity

Golly, what would a Kansas season be without someone the posters can pour their own frustrations and failures on. [I guess Tyshawn has become too easy a target]

To each of you who posted something positive or, at least,posted rational criticism...keep it up.

To each poster who posted something outrageously negative....go look in the mirror.

Hank Cross 10 years, 6 months ago

This isn't like Brady. The criticism of Brady was that he took up minutes that could have been used to develop better players when he had already reached his limited potential. I like Withey and have no idea why so many people are down on someone who scored a triple double - even if it was against PSU. Withey isn't standing in anyone's way and should get time to develop. If he doesn't do so, that's on him.

KU_alum_2001 10 years, 6 months ago

I think the key takeaway with Withey from last night and for the rest of his time at KU is this: "at least he's not Chenowith". If you can remember that motto, it will keep your stress level and disappointment much lower this year. He did what I would expect him to do against 6'4 guys from a DII program. We didn't see a true reflection of what (for better or worse) is to come once we play the likes of UK or Georgetown or UCLA.

Aside from Withey, I thought they looked pretty poor. Not trying to be all negative and I realize the score suggests otherwise and that we were without some of our top guys but.... that was not beautiful b-ball.

And for those who responded by stressing how our top guys were out and thus blah blah blah... rememeber that some of those guys from last night will be our starters this year and many of those others will see 15-20 min a game this season. That's concerning to me.

I have one (and only one) major goal for KU this year: that the streak of NCAA appearances doesn't end.

Steve Brown 10 years, 6 months ago

18 wins should get us in or do we need 19?

NotWiller 10 years, 6 months ago

How about Withey's sky hook w/ two minutes left in the 2nd?? That was awesome! I hope to see more of that.

So much fun to watch Teahan- things were going so well for him, he didn't even know how to react!

Ok, so my Releford prediction (25+) didn't exactly happen. I still believe in him. Then again, a year ago I felt exactly the same way about Mario Little, so maybe I need to rethink my model for predicting which older 'Hawks are about to go off....

Redlandsjhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Could someone who watched the game please let us know how Kevin Young looked? Can't get much of an impression from the box score. I really thought he would be a key part of this years team, but for some reason is not seeing the floor much. I'd also appreciate any insight as to why that may be.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 6 months ago

Young is really lanky. It appears that he will be a decent defender/rebounder/shot blocker, but I don't see him contributing much on offense. Self will probably make it clear that he is the last scoring option on the court. He did get 20 minutes last night though and pretty much shared the position with Wesley.

Wesley, by the way, looked pretty good. He's added some muscle and he's got more of an offensive game than Young. But if we're hurting for boards, I see Young getting the call.

Robin Smith 10 years, 6 months ago

Young showed great tenacity and wherewithal. He's somewhat slow-footed and got baited trying to guard the perimeter leading to some breakdowns, but other than that he's going to be a great intangibles guy, showing good awareness and great hustle. Rebounding is about desire and he impressed me by getting to some difficult balls. He also had some good scramble plays that while not getting collected, were also not easily collected by the opposition.

He's also got to be valued for his maturity and coaching-sense. He's the kind of guy who will give it his all selflessly with the only goal being a team victory. He will likely also be a great calming influence in pressure situations because of his mentality.

He's going to a get a few dunks, some put-backs, and plenty of boards (per minute of court time, that is).

He didn't take any jumpers so I don't know about that part of his game, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has a bit of that too.

For a guy playing his first action in AFH he looked a little sped up and so I expect he'll guard better and play more collected ball in the future as he gets into it. For a back up big with utility skills as our 7th or 8th guy he's going to be great.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 6 months ago

He did take one jumper out near the 3 pt line. He missed the shot and his form didn't look good, but I don't think that's why Self has him on the court. Like you said, he's there to get rebounds, put backs, blocks, etc. I think he'll excel at that role eventually.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 6 months ago

Ok, trivia nerds, how many different combinations are there that could be considered a triple-double? We just witnessed the pts/rebs/blks version. My preference is a scenario that more often is acheived by a guard. Discuss!

NotWiller 10 years, 6 months ago

it's more of a stats question- it's the possible combinations of 4 categories, given that the ordering of the categories doesn't matter. And I have bad news for you: there are only 4 possible ways to get a triple-double, and none of them favor guards since half of the categories (rebounds and blocks) favor non-guards:

blocks, assists, points blocks, assists, rebounds blocks, points, rebounds assists, points, rebounds

I'm pretty sure that's right, but someone correct me if you see something amiss.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 6 months ago

Wow, Interesting question! I've never even thought about that! With that said, does steals not factor into that equation? I have heard of a quadruple double doubles and actually just looked up the only 4 in NBA history. Wouldn't points, rebounds, steals, asissts, and blocked shots all be categories to consider? Would be interesting to see how many Oscar Robertson would have had?

David Robinson

San Antonio Spurs

Feb. 17th, 1994

Detroit 34 points,10 assists,10 rebounds,2 steals, 10 blocked shots

Hakeem Olajuwon

Houston Rockets

Mar. 29th, 1990

Milwaukee-18 points,10 assists, 16 rebounds, 1 steal, 11 rebounds

Alvin Robertson

San Antonio Spurs

Feb. 18th, 1986

Phoenix-20 points, 10 assists, 11 rebounds, 10 steals, 0 blocked shots

Nate Thurmond

Chicago Bulls

Oct. 18th, 1974

Atlanta-22 points, 13 assists, 14 rebounds, 0 steals, 12 rebounds

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 6 months ago

Of course steals can be included in a double-double or tripple-double, etc.

If a guard has double digit numers of points, steals and assists, he is really contributing to the success of his team. Blocks MAY prevent a field goal. But, usually, steals and assists are more productive as offensive advantages.

NotWiller 10 years, 6 months ago

Well, COURSE steals count. I was just making sure y'all were paying attention....

Anyway, the formula (I think) is x!/r!(x-r)!, where x is the number of categories (5 here: points, assists, blocks, rebounds, and STEALS), and r is the number of categories in the group you want to define (here 3, for a triple-double). So there should be 10 ways to get a triple-double out of these five stats ([5!=120] divided by [3!(5-3)!=12], and you get 120/12=10). Now that 3 of the five are guard-friendly, or at least position neutral, I'll leave it to another post to figure out the expected likelihood of a guard vs. a big getting one.

I'd do it now, but I'm swamped w/ work....

p.s. I still think Releford is going to have a big year.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 6 months ago

Pencils down!

  • Note that my query was addressed to "trivia nerds". Obviously, I've attracted the "math nerds" as well!

NotWiller 10 years, 6 months ago

Ha! "Pencils down" is my new saying for this sort of thing- perfect!

Just trying to keep the "college" in college hoops...class dismissed.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 6 months ago

WTF! That is some intense sheeeattttt right there!

benshawks08 10 years, 6 months ago

Am I the only one who thinks Tharpe might be a shooter? His stroke from 3 looked good and he made 2 out of 3. He looked calm and comfortable shooting from deep. I didn't get to see the whole game so maybe he airballed some jumpers or something but 66% is pretty good. I think we all want to compare him to Miles so bad that we may be selling his shooting ability short. Too soon to really tell.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 6 months ago

Tharpe has a solid shot with great form. From what I could tell last night, he can hit pretty much any jumper he wants. He's just a "pass first" PG who tries to get his teammates shots before his own shot. He drained two three's in a row last night after making a terrible turnover, so at least he doesn't get too frustrated with himself when he makes mistakes. That's good to see.

Robin Smith 10 years, 6 months ago


these haters would hate a cake before it's baked

also if you're going to get on the internet and hate (note that this is different from criticizing) and do it like you're high and mighty, then you should grow up and own your hate by not doing so anonymously. You're just a scornful coward otherwise. (Not you, BOTPOTW ;)

temper your criticisms instead of criticizing with your tempers!

RockCaCO3 10 years, 6 months ago

"..hate a cake before it's baked." LOL.

TopCityBob 10 years, 6 months ago

Young looked good at times. I doubt he will be much of a scorer, but he seems to always be around the loose ball. He should be close to double digits in rebounds most nights. Put him in with the starters and I think he will improve his timing which more than likely will lead to more points for him.

Joe Baker 10 years, 6 months ago

Young is a rhythm player. Once he get's rolling, he will knock down shots. He's still adjusting to Self's system.

Joe Baker 10 years, 6 months ago

I love what the starters brings to the court.

TT- Senior, 6-3 EJ- Junior. 6-4 Rel- 4 yr Junior, 6-6 TRob- Junior, 6-10 Withey- Junior, 7-0

The experience and skill level of this group is huge. I'm real anxious to see where they are at Christmas when BMac and Traylor join. Also, I do believe BMac and Traylor are practicing.

benshawks08 10 years, 6 months ago

Nope. They get to practice starting in December. They won't play until next year.

1jhawk2 10 years, 6 months ago

I think Tharpe will be a solid PG. Young should work on being a dependable defender/rebounder. Wesley could give us 5 minutes a game. Withey will get eaten alive against better competition.

Jordan Enriquez Roberts would/will dominate Withey. I hate KSU, but this what our depth is.

If I were opposing coaches, I would pound the ball inside as much as I can often and early to get our bigs in foul trouble. Robinson is going to pick up a ton of fouls trying to do to much.

If Robinson or Releford go down, we go down.

This is my first Negative Nancy post about the Hawks, but I think we lose 11 games this year. We don't have enough depth.

Sam Constance 10 years, 6 months ago

"Withey will get eaten alive against better competition"

And the baseless comments continue.

I didn't realize so many Jayhawk fans were just flat-out stupid.

1jhawk2 10 years, 6 months ago

Regarding the baseless much did you see him play last year? I didn't see him play much either. When I did see him get in, he looked slow, weak and outmaned. Being that tall, Bill didn't play him for a reason. Bill will be forced to play him this year, and you can't teach aggresiveness. I know this makes sense and has some validity.

1jhawk2 10 years, 6 months ago

You made my point... he didn't play because he wasn't good enough then. A guy that big should get about 6-8 minutes of meaningful time even with the TRob and Morris Twins. There were a handful of games we had some foul trouble and we played small when Withey could have played. Self said last year that Withey didn't play because he wasn't ready.

My opinion is that he still isn't ready against tougher competition. Do yourself a favor and play a pick up game with a 5th grader and see how well you dominate. You would = Withey.

manginodrh00lz 10 years, 6 months ago

You do know you can reply to someone's post via the "reply" button? jhawkinnebr...always available for a good laugh.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Maybe the basketball team should wear helmets and uniforms with no names on them to protect their identity.

Most of the football posts that I've read over the past few weeks have shown great concern / frustration / disappointment in the team and coaching staff, but I honestly don't recall any of them slamming individual players like I'm seeing here today.

Well, it's KU and we have extremely high expectations. I'm hopeful that we can express our frustrations without getting too personal.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

Hey, there's hihawk the null set.

hihawk the lurky lurk.

hihawk the anger trolling institute grad.

hihawk whose iBrain looks like a bee-bee rolling down a four lane highway.

Oh, hihawk, darling little trolling hihawk!

I have missed you my little ewe.

I have come to talk hoops with my little ewe.

I have come to read you write players that shoot 40% from trey are lousy shooters.

I have come to read you write that 30 win teams are a debacle.

I have come to watch you put on a Three Stooges clinic.

I have come to watch you contradict the obvious.

I have come to watch an alias attempt to divide zero into whole numbers, while reciting an oath to The Flat Earthy Society.

hihawk, where are you, my little ewe?

Please weigh in with one of your Brady Morningstar makes more money than hihawk, gets more dates, has a better future, played D1 ball, and started, or played big minutes on three conference title teams, and three NCAA teams, the last two of which won 30 games a season.

Pretty please, my little ewe?

Oh, hihawk, please, please, please, come and give us one of your Moe Howard on Basketball lectures. :-)

(Cue the Three Stooges Theme)

Steve Kubler 10 years, 6 months ago

Crap, snorting Pepsi though your nose burns!

brooksmd 10 years, 6 months ago

You will learn not to eat or drink when you read jaybate posts. Can have disastrous results.

brooksmd 10 years, 6 months ago

jb, me thinks hihawk is the old jhawkinnebr.

texashawk10 10 years, 6 months ago

No he's not. I have a pretty good idea who hihawk is because he makes many of the same grammatical errors and has a very similar posting style to someone on CBS's site with the belief the professional wrestling is "real" and not scripted soap opera for men.

texashawk10 10 years, 6 months ago

The Brady Morningstar debate has been transferred over to Jeff Withey for this year and likely next year. My opinion is that Withey is going to be a nice complimentary player to T-Rob. As Shaw said above 7-8 points, 8-9 rebounds, and a couple of blocks a game will be a good year for Withey. Most of his points will likely come on offensive boards or quick layups because of T-Rob getting double teamed which is fine because out of the starting 5, he's going to be the 5th scoring option. I also think Fort Hays will be a little better measuring stick for Withey as their frontcourt actually has a little bit of beef.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

By gosh, texashawk10, you are making a case for intelligent life in Baja Oklahoma!

Keep it up.

I want to like the state of Texas, and everyone there, because, well, because our kids are fighting for Exxon's bottom line all over the world and I at least to believe that the folks that live between the Red River and the Rio Grande will be smart enough to tell us when enough is enough, and when Mission is actually accomplished.


From now on, texashawk10, you are my go-to guy in oilville, my Wichita Lineman still on the line, my Kinky Friedman, Tompall, Waylon and Willie, and Buddy Holly rolled into one clear thinking, straight shooting sunnuva gun.

You are so refreshing after years of high colonic posts from Texashawk44 aka Texashawk.22rimfireshort.

You are our eyes and ears in the only state with its own power grid that doesn't have share a kilowatt hour if it doesn't want to.

Come scrappin' time with Granny Barnes, Billy Clyde, and Billy K, one honest Jayhawk in Texas is worth a million barrels of Iraqi crude, or a billion cubic feet of Iranian natural gas.

Yeeeeeee hawwwww, am I glad we have finally infiltrated an honest KU man into Dubyastan.

Are they still makin' Luchesses fit to wear fit wear a walkin' heel with, or have they become citified and "designed" by pretty boys in New York? I have one pair from the late 1970s, or early 80s that I just keep resoling. I don't wear 'em much anymore cause my feet got too big (dangedest thing how your arches fall and your feet get longer, while everything else fun just shrinks up ta nothin' as you get older!).

Anyway, good to have you aboard and makin' sense.

P.S.: My apologies if I have overlooked other sharp board rats hailing from the great state of Texas. It is just that I got sooooooo tired of that one goofball that used to sit in his studio in the Metroplex with his Granny Barnes love doll spouting redicularities.

Rock Chalk!

brooksmd 10 years, 6 months ago

Having made such an impression upon the erudite jaybate is it safe to say texashawk10 you have achieved recognition some (hihawk, jhawkinnebr) can only dream of.

jartiv 10 years, 6 months ago

Lots of defensiveness going on here... even before anyone said anything to offend?

I'm with Bill... the game was ugly. The only stat that means anything is the W.

I have criticisms for all the players - if that makes me a bad fan, than thats what I am. If you enjoy giving every team you enjoy a pat on the back for every game they play, than good for you... I enjoy yelling at my television even when we're winning games and titles.

Criticism on Withey... he looked like a ragdoll out there. But I can tell that hes trying his hardest to at least play bigger. If he can keep these numbers while getting tossed around - he should have no problem being effective for us on defense. On offense - different story. He seemed to have missed some huge opportunities missing passes, not going hard to the basket, and hitting free throws. If he cant take the ball to the hoop against 6'6'' guys whats going to happen when we put him on a real center?

Finally... and maybe I am reading too much into this... but go back and watch what happened when Withey went to the bench. Sat down next to Tyshawn, TRob, and Elijah. Did anyone notice them giving him a cold shoulder? I have heard many rumors about players lacking respect for Withey because they see him as being soft - certain that the twins definitely felt this way. But I hope there is little truth to this, because if Withey is going to learn to play big, he needs to know his teams got his back.

flyingfinn 10 years, 6 months ago

Wow read most of these posts and while not the second coming of Wilt I thought Withey did a pretty good job, remember this IS the first game. Let's see how does a player contribute to a win, scores points? yep double digits, gets rebounds?, yep you can't score if you don't get te ball back another double digits effort, and block shots?, yep the other tean doesn't score if his shot is block, agian double digits. The other categories to success are usually attributed to guard play, which without naming players was attrocious, but I don't see people ragging on that. So after a fall sports season that has been as bad as I can remember its nice to see a win any kind of a win especially when 3 of your best players don't play and to me it shows good coaching does matter.

Kristen Downing 10 years, 6 months ago

I watched Syracuse(#5) vs. Cal State LA last night. Hardly anyone in the audience. Very athletic players that had dunks and well orchestrated fast breaks in the first half. However, shortly before the first half ended, they were only up by two. They went on to win big. Their big advatage over KU was their freakie athleticism.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

And they won't have that advantage when Tyshawn "faster than light" Taylor, Elijah "The Prophet of Tachyon" Johnson, and Thomas (I'll rip your skinny arms outta their sockets and beat you with them while I dunk) Robinson.

Athleticism is not going to be the problem with this team.

Depth is this teams's only problem.

P.S.: Scientists at CERN this off season discovered that while Einstein was right that nothing could accelerate to beyond the speed of light, Bertie also left a crack in the door that said that there could be particles that start out going faster than the speed of light. And they found some of those particles this summer. One of them should be named Tyshawnyon.

Michael Bratisax 10 years, 6 months ago

I hope you're right jaybate but I think scoring will be an issue least early in the season.

This team has lost several players who consistently put up solid numbers and at least until I'm proven wrong, they have not been replaced.

Really wish Ben was eligible but that's no longer relevant.

EJ? Maybe but wish he'd been given the green light more last season. Thomas? If he can stay out of foul trouble. Withey? Maybe the best bet.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Speaking of Syracuse - here's what may be my favorite joke of all time. It's an oldie but a goodie. Most of you have heard it before in some form or another, but who doesn't like to hear a good joke more than once? (It's kind of long - sorry)

Shortly after the 2003 National Championship game both Roy Williams and Jim Boeheim died suddenly and went to Heaven. St. Peter met Boeheim there first and Peter told him to come inside the pearly gates and he would take him on a personal guided tour of Heaven. They strolled around, taking in all the sights and wonders and then Peter stopped and took Jim by the arm.

“Jim”, he said, “This is highly unusual, but God wanted me to show you this.” They walked around a curve in the path and there it was. A brand new three bedroom, two-bath home – painted bright orange. The yard was beautifully manicured and there was a flagpole right in the middle of the yard proudly flying the Syracuse flag. Peter told Jim that this was an exceedingly rare honor, that almost nobody in Heaven was deemed worthy of having his or her own house. Boeheim stuck his chest out and was just about to burst with pride as they rounded the next corner on the tour.

Up at the very top of the hill was the grandest mansion he had ever seen. It made the Spelling mansion look like a cardboard box. A gorgeous four story marble tabernacle. Every window was made of crimson and blue stained glass. The yard was impeccable; every single blade of grass was the greenest green, with not one single weed to be found. The half-mile long driveway was made of solid gold and was lined on either side with 1,000 Kansas Jayhawk flags flying boldly. There was the most beautiful swimming pool that anyone had ever gazed upon, lined with every precious stone and fed by babbling waterfalls of the most pure crystalline water. In the pool were dozens of scantily clad Jayhawk cheerleaders.

Boeheim sputtered “Hey! Hey! Hey! What’s up with this? I just won the National Championship game and all I get is this little crappy three bedroom, two-bath house in the valley. Roy hasn’t done anything. He’s never won a National Championship and he gets this unbelievable billion dollar mansion on the hill?”

St Peter turned to him and said “Whoa Jim, no need to get excited. That’s not Roy’s house, It’s GOD’s!”

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

hmmm - well some of that didn't "take", but you get the idea.

Alohahawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Mahalo for a good laugh. Must admit I've not heard that one before. But I'll keep it in my "best BB jokes" file. Hope you don't get a bunch of retorts about being sacrilegious.

BTW, if you look real close I'm sure you'll find "Naismith Drive" printed on a signpost for the drive leading up to the house on the hill.

brooksmd 10 years, 6 months ago

Speaking of Syracuse, having attended the 2003 Final Four in Nawlin's, Syracuse fans are the most rude, belligerent and obnoxious fans I've ever encountered.

texashawk10 10 years, 6 months ago

Justin Wesley's block made #7 on Sportscenter's top 10 and Kevin Young's dunk made #5 today. Not too shaby guys.

Kristen Downing 10 years, 6 months ago

In case you want to watch some upcoming teams on the schedule, Kentucky plays the powerhouse Transylvania(?) today at 6:00 central on Fox Sport South.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 6 months ago

And what is their mascot? Don't tell me..........

Ben Kane 10 years, 6 months ago

they are a local school here in lexington. most of what is kentucky used to be the transylvania territory. their mascot is the pioneers. they are D3.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 6 months ago

Let me guess, they used to be known as the Fight'n Igors, right?

Let me guess, Calipari issued garlic cloves to his team, just in case!

Let me guess, they only practice and play at night!

Let me guess, Mel Brooks has a reserved, mid-court seat at home games!

Let me guess, the NCAA had to give special permission for players to have thoe bolts in their necks on the court!

joeloveshawks 10 years, 6 months ago

A few posts up Jartiv mentions that T Rob, Taylor and others gave Withey the cold shoulder when he came to the bench as they feel he is soft. Is this true? Has anyone else heard this? Don't mean to question you but that seems like it would be a large problem if it is the case.

Greg Lux 10 years, 6 months ago

Wilt just rolled over in his grave with that comparison!!! lol Just kidding Jeff .. You had a better game but to compare with Wilt is a little much. Wilt could jump and dunk the ball which Jeff you are having trouble doing .. Legs that tired? Come on Jeff get up where the big boys play ... Dunk IT !!!!!!!!!

Rock Chalk

Hank Cross 10 years, 6 months ago

Withey =/= Brady. A triple double (even in a exhibition) is a real stat line, not amorphus, non-quanitfiable "glue."

There is no reason to be down on any player at this stage. They were playing short-handed in an exhibition for goodness sake. Let the core of EJ, Travis, and TRob build. Although making it to the S16 this year may be a challenge, this could be one of those seasons that when examined after the end of Next Season will be seen as an essential step in the process of returning to the FF or NC.

As HEM says, "The glass is half full"

Enjoy the ride.

Trey Hohman 10 years, 6 months ago

I think Withey will most likely have decent numbers this year. If I had to make a bet, he'll probably have a couple of great games. (18 pts. 10 rebs 8 blocks) and he'll also have a handful of terrible ones...(2 pts. 2 rebs. 0 blocks. 6 TO's. 5 fouls.) Overall, I think he'll probably average 18-20 mins./gm with 6 pts. 6 rebs. 2 blocks. I personally think the single greatest contribution he can make for us this season is guarding the opposing team's biggest post threat for a good portion of the game so to keep TRob out of critical foul trouble....If he can't do that, then we are going to have to mostly be a zone-oriented defense against bigger teams.

Unfortunately, I think we are going to have some serious problems scoring the basketball at times. No one I see to truly go to when the offense breaks down and shot clock goes down to 3...2....1. Can't exactly dump it off to Morris Twins for an easy bucket or wide open 3 this year. Not getting Trevor Lacey and having an inactive Mcclemore this year is really going to bite us hard against really good teams.

kesmithstl1 10 years, 6 months ago

For those of you bragging about Withey's triple double, what would you be saying if the guy played for MU, K-State, etc...? Chances are, you would be salivating for KU to play them (much like we were when we played Hansborough).

And if it is true that his teammates are shunning him, I feel bad for him, but do something about it! Get strong! Get tough! Get mean! His goal against FHSU should be to foul hard! Set a precedent! Right now he is the softest player of the Bill Self era (and that is meant as no disrespect to Micah Downs).

Ethan Berger 10 years, 6 months ago

Nobody is bragging, just congratulating. Is that so bad?

kesmithstl1 10 years, 6 months ago

no that is great! I congratulate the guy! A triple double is a great accomplishment. I'm not saying that is bad. I'm just saying, he's still soft!

RockCaCO3 10 years, 6 months ago

kesmithstl1 and Withey, one on one, after school, by the flagpole. My money is one kesmithestl1 (based on the way he talks.)

Sam Constance 10 years, 6 months ago

I wouldn't be saying anything, because I literally couldn't care any less about what the Mildcats and the Tail Tuckers are doing at this time of the year.

By the way, if his teammates are shunning him for some perceived notion of "softness", that is on his teammates far more than it is on him. He clearly works hard. He clearly cares about winning. If it's true that those guys are shutting him out, then that makes them terrible teammates and I fear we lack any true leadership or maturity on this team. It's one thing to cold-shoulder a guy because he doesn't try hard. If they do think he's "soft", maybe it's because they've been listening to and reading the comments of too many idiot fans who post such baseless comments on message boards.

The idea that we have a bunch of childish, clique-making, junior-high girls on this team that shut their teammates out worries me far more than Withey's supposed softness.

That being said, I have a feeling that it's more a case of various posters reading too much into the players' actions based on their own preconceived notions of Withey's ability than it is the other players ACTUALLY shutting him out.

kesmithstl1 10 years, 6 months ago

valid points! Hey, I hope I'm wrong, and Withey just looks soft. I will be the first one to admit it. He needs to provide valuable minutes off the bench. If he can give 10 minutes a game, I like this team.

DanR 10 years, 6 months ago

Off the bench? Dude, Withey is a starter, so get used to it. Seriously, are you jhawkinnebr? I haven't read so many idiotic posts since that *&#$ing tool polluted the discussion.

kesmithstl1 10 years, 6 months ago

we'll see. I am not hating on this team, just wish Withey was stronger! I just don't think he is a starter.

Shawn Otrimble 10 years, 6 months ago

Anyone that puts down a guys triple double in the years first exhibition game can piss off! I swear some people get their kicks off of ragging on someone, I'm sorry I have to except you as part of the Jayhawk nation. grow up and let this team be what it will be. We are so spoiled in basketball. Start appreciating and stop taking it for granted. I thought the team did well for the first exhibition, ugly first half/lack of 3 of our biggest starters. Rock Chalk

Robin Smith 10 years, 6 months ago

Teahan was legit. Big-time contributor this year.

Withey was legit. Big-time contributor this year

Tharpe was stellar despite turnovers. Future fan fave and legend in the making.

Releford was off and on, but still solid and he'll find his form, especially with Taylor and Johnson in the game and doing more of the ball-handling.

Young was solid and impressive despite a couple lapses. Great supporting player this year. The glue guy.

Wesley was solid. Great supporting player this year.

Juenemann was also good despite being a bit sped up. Great coast to coast play.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

jaybate news service (ins):

Dateline: Inside the space-time conference realignment continuum.

Slug: Mega conference in the pipeline...

JRock and MitchMac have ordered the Big 12 to be renamed the Big 18 Super Corridor Conference. Rumored membership is:

East Division

Rutgers Syracuse Pitt Maryland WVU Boston U TCU Louisville UK

Midwest Division Kansas KSU Texas TAM TTech OU OSU Baylor Iowa State

For threatening to turn its back on the Super Corridor and move its coal reserves to the SEC coalition, MU will become a private penitentiary and play in a new Central States Correctional Facilities League. The Antlers will service the guards!

(Note: All fiction. No malice.)

brooksmd 10 years, 6 months ago

Do my eyes deceive me? TAM? They tired of being an SEC doormat that quickly?

jumpinjayhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Im sorry but Jeff is no Wilt, not even close. As a matter of fact the comparison is laughable at best, it was like playing a high school team.

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

Even Danny Manning was no Wilt.

This is hardly saying anything.

Yolanda Gay 10 years, 6 months ago

If Jeff can perform (i.e. double digit points (at least 10) and 8-10 rebounds) against tough teams we'll play in our nonconference schedule - then I'll be a believer.

kufaninmo 10 years, 6 months ago

Couple points here...Nobody expected Whithey to get a triple double. Honestly, it never 'felt' like he had one, and everyone here was probably surprised when they heard he had one (including Whithey apparently). I remember when he first came to KU and played in the first game he could, and remember seeing him and Cole standing under the rim playing some kind of zone coverage and being in complete awe. Nobody was going to drill past these two 7 foot "walls". He had a pretty good game, didn't play much, but I believe recorded a block (maybe a couple), then sat out. I can't speak for everyone, but the expectation levels shot through the roof. We expected at the very least he second coming of Cole (similar body types, same amazing KU basketball system)...whenever he'd play since then, he'd come in for a few, then sub out, never giving him a chance to feel the flow of the game (which is extremely important). People, we really haven't seen what this kid can do! It's easy to hate on him only because he hasn't made any impact yet and it's frustrating. But let's give him at least a few more games before we start trashing the guy!

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