Thursday, February 17, 2011

Recruit Angelo Chol chooses Arizona over Kansas

Kansas recruit Angelo Chol, left, watches the action next to fellow KU recruit Ben McLemore during Late Night in the Phog, Friday, Oct. 15, 2010.

Kansas recruit Angelo Chol, left, watches the action next to fellow KU recruit Ben McLemore during Late Night in the Phog, Friday, Oct. 15, 2010.


Angelo Chol, a 6-foot-9 senior forward from San Diego’s Hoover High, orally committed to Arizona on Thursday. He chose the Wildcats over Kansas University and North Carolina. Earlier in the week, he eliminated Alabama and Washington.

“I wanted to be in a situation (where I could) play early in my career and have a chance to win a national championship,” Chol told “I feel with this recruiting class we will have that chance.”

Chol is’s No. 76-rated player in the Class of 2011.


Ben Simonett 11 years, 7 months ago

Next? Next?

There isnt anybody left!

Self has flopped big time on this years recruiting trail

chalmers2wright 11 years, 7 months ago

Hopefully we won't need any. I decent project would be nice though to build for the future.

Marcus Duncan 11 years, 7 months ago

If the Twins both leave, hopefully they don't, but if so, we will be left with T-Rob and a VERY raw Jeff Withey. . . We could be in serious trouble... Mario Little is gone as well. . .

Kye Clark 11 years, 7 months ago

Exactly. Justin Wesley will need to step up, and we'll probably see some more of Travis playing the post.

The other thing to hope for is that Self can find a guy or two who's a de-commit, like the Twins were.

AsadZ 11 years, 7 months ago

Personally I am not disappointed. High recruits want to play just 1 may be 2 years. I'd rather have Bigs like Darnell and Sasha, not very highly recruited who will stay in college for 3-4 years. They get mature and build a chemistry. They can be coached by Danny M.

TopJayhawk 11 years, 7 months ago

So the kid proves he is a dummie, and wants the glory. Yes he ought to go to Arizona. Win an NC there? Kids not too bright.

knightmare34 11 years, 7 months ago

With Daniels, this can still be a decent class, but we need him.

chaggs 11 years, 7 months ago

Kudos to LJ World on the timely report! Thanks!

Craig Lang 11 years, 7 months ago

I think if every recruit were to attend his 2nd pick, rather than his first pick, KU would be loaded with talent next year. Unfortunately, 2nd favorite gets us nothing. I am really concerned about next year's team. Unless Self gets one of the remaining top picks, the Jayhawks aren't going to have much to work with next season.

Scott Smetana 11 years, 7 months ago

We may not be as deep, but if we can find 1 more big guy we are so set!

PG - Selby / EJ 2 - Taylor 3 - Releford 4 - ? 5- Robinson

National Player of the Year - Robinson

Not too bad, huh?

Andrew Moore 11 years, 7 months ago

Morris twins? and as much as I like Trob, he is not a national or even big 12 player of the year type of guy

Saad Saifeddine 11 years, 7 months ago

trob is an awesome person, and a good/very good basketball player, but national player of the year is a bit far-fetched. I love the kid though, great kid, no question about that

UmbertoConforti 11 years, 7 months ago

If those who say the NBA will draft on promise forget about Selby. He hasn't demonstrated that he should be a top 30 pick but his potential is great.

Michael Bratisax 11 years, 7 months ago

That team would break both our 20+ wins per season and our streak of making the NCAA.

yovoy 11 years, 7 months ago

PG - Selby? / EJ? 2 - Tyshawn

No. Ty at the point alternating some w/ EJ, EJ slides to the 2, Selby at the 2, playing 3 sometimes w/ Releford. If Selby had the size he'd be a 3 a la B-Rush. He has marginally better handles, but that doesn't make him a 1. We have one coming in I believe.

Joe Baker 11 years, 7 months ago

I'm a little surprised

Miller is sure impressing these kids against KU.

Wonder what magical words he's using to convince them against KU.

First Turner and now Chol.

Ron Franklin 11 years, 7 months ago

easy true, there is no playing time here. kids are entitled these days, ya at least 25 mpg their freshmen year:-)

KU could bring in top recruits next year...BennyMac & Daniels & they'd see Royce Wooldridge minutes.

Thats why we can't land anybody this year. Not even Daniels when his dad is practically begging him to come to KU.....this is hearsay, and I don't know it to be true, but it makes sense.

100 11 years, 7 months ago

Serious trolling going on below...

hawk4evr 11 years, 7 months ago

Not surprised. Ever sense Norm Roberts left for St. Johns, recruting has been nothing but a struggle. I don't see it getting better anytime soon. Recruits don't care about the building they play or a schools tradition. They care about ESPN highlights, the "league", and finally the relationship they develop with the coach that recruits them. Our current assistants are not doing a good job and that is obvious by the results that we are having lately.

kufankam 11 years, 7 months ago

Xavier Henry and Josh Selby, the two highest rated recruits in KU history have come after the departure of Norm. I love Norm and am not taking anything from him, but to say that recruiting has been a struggle is a bit misinformed.

selfishhawk 11 years, 7 months ago

Both Selby and Xavier chose other schools first: Tenneessee and Memphis. Xavier does wear Crimson and Blue if Coach Cal stays at Memphis. Though, we would've gotten Lance Stephenson, who would've been a pain, but might have helped last year's team more.

Kye Clark 11 years, 7 months ago

Well...I'd disagree to some extent. The past two seasons Self landed Selby & Xavier - both big-time, 5 star, top 10, McDonald's All-American recruits. From the current roster you can throw EJ (no. 24 overall) & TRob (no. 31) in there as players who were very highly rated, and Releford to some extent (no. 70). Norm Roberts left in 2004. The 2005 class (which you could argue Roberts had a hand in, but he was already gone when the players made their decisions) was 3 McDonald's All-Americans (Wright, Chalmers, Micah Downs) & Brandon Rush. The following year we brought in Arthur & Collins. So clearly Roberts was not the be all and end all of recruiting. And like I said earlier, Chol probably considered the possibility of the Twins returning for their senior season and decided he didn't want to have to wait a year to see the court.

I would say that if not for some good fortune our roster could look very different. Consider that Tyshawn originally committed to Marquette, the Twins originally committed to Memphis, and Withey transferred from Arizona. Without them, who knows? Maybe other players would have committed due to available playing time.

I'd love to have another "home run" type recruiting class like 2005, but those simply aren't going to happen very often.

All that being said, with his son Niko on the team and him out of a job, I wouldn't be opposed to bringing Norm back and having him assist in recruiting.

Kye Clark 11 years, 7 months ago

There are only 2 logical explanations for this - he wanted to place closer to home, and he's worried the Twins will stay and he'll be stuck on the bench for a year.

If playing time is available I don't know why every big man in the country wouldn't want to play for KU. Self's system emphasizes throwing it into the post and we have the greatest big man coach in the country with Danny.

Karen Mansfield-Stewart 11 years, 7 months ago

I agree. I also think the twins will wind up staying for their senior year. DD & Ben McLemore are bigger recruits imho. But next years' class must be a top 5 class.

However, it is frustrating right now being #2 on everyone's list; especially this week!

Kye Clark 11 years, 7 months ago

billhawk - agree on DD & Ben (they are higher rated), the only problem is they are both 3s, not bigs. Even though Daniels is tall enough, it's my understanding his skill set lends him more to the wing than the post.

Karen Mansfield-Stewart 11 years, 7 months ago

I'm saying that the twins stay so we don't need bigs next year. If they leave it will be tough! After another year of seasoning TRob and Withey should be ready to handle it for a year then transfer it to a new crop (again, top five class!).

Joe Baker 11 years, 7 months ago

What young big man wouldn't want to work with one of the greatest college big men and accomplished NBA players in the country?

Angelo needs a lot of improvement and I really don't see Miller giving him that same quality big man teaching he will need for the next level.

Good Luck at Zona Angelo, you're going to need it at a young program who's coach is spread very thin. Don't forget, you can decommit before it's too late.

texashawk10 11 years, 7 months ago

One thing about Manning, how long is he actually still going to be at KU as an assistant because he's getting to the point to where he is ready to take a head coaching job to prepare himself to possibly take over KU when Self retires or goes to the NBA.

Chris Shaw 11 years, 7 months ago

I don't see this happening either. I mean, Manning is 44 and Self is 48. How much longer do you expect Self to coach? He's stated that he doesn't want to be an old coach so at best I give him another 10-12 years which would put him at 60 or 61. I just don't KU hiring a 57 year old Manning at that time.

Steve Corder 11 years, 7 months ago

Arizona IS the safe play for a kid who doesn't think he can compete against the Morris brothers.

Red Ward 11 years, 7 months ago

Arizona is a lot closer to home than KU would be...hard to beleive that is not a factor in the decision. I watched Sean Miller attract and develop talent while he was coaching here in Cincinnati...he is very good at both.

Clarence Haynes 11 years, 7 months ago

Hope that he did not read the blogs over the past few days.

Brett Forreal 11 years, 7 months ago

Self doesn't promise immediate playing time and Miller probably does. High profile recruits don't want to earn their spots, they just want to walk on in. I see the twins coming back along with everyone else. There is a long way to go and things could change if we go far in the tourney.

RyanKCMO 11 years, 7 months ago

I think Norm was good and he could be back if Dooley ever leaves. But I thought Dooley was the one with the East Coast pipeline now, twins, Taylor, TRob, Selby. Self's staff is good. They have 4 sure bet future pros and a couple others with a shout on the team right now. Does UNC have 4-5 pros right now? Does Duke? I think it's just hard to swallow for those of us that live here, that's it's harder to recruit to KU than it should be. Roy recruited California and Iowa...Self recruits the whole country and long term it works out.

4jhawks4ku 11 years, 7 months ago

These other schools promise them they will be showcased, ala Calimari. Self doesnt lie to them. Thats why he gets more blue collar players. Youre better off with good team players such as Russ Rob, Darnell, Tyrel etc etc. rather than showboats trying to help themselves rather than the team..

Ben Simonett 11 years, 7 months ago

Russ Rob was a 5*

and how do you know what self doe or does not say(i.e lie) to these recruits? have you ever been in the families living room when self was making his pitch?

Quit making self out to be somehow above the rest of the coaches in the country you homer.

tjg1 11 years, 7 months ago

As a former AZ wildcat and a transfer to KU, I can say I can tell what lured Chol in. The weather, the campus, and the girls are all incredible at AZ. Unfortunately for him, he doesn't understand just how awesome KU basketball is.

gchawk 11 years, 7 months ago

KU basketball, and girls, are second to none. You probably have something there with the weather, but personally, I'm not interested in fair weather players.

Damian Glaze 11 years, 7 months ago

I'll give you two out of three (or one out of three). The KU campus is far better in my opinion after visiting UA a few times since moving out here. The campus comparison isn't even close. The girls are about even in my opinion, but the argument could be made thy are better in Tucson. The weather is hands down better in Tucson. I'm guessing he wanted to attend the best basketball school closest to home. Right now UofA is owning the Pac-10. What I don't understand is why wasn't UCLA on his list? Nevertheless, I don't think it is that big of a loss. The University of Kansas will survive.

hawk4evr 11 years, 7 months ago

Counting Henry and Selby as recruiting successes is a little misinformed. Henry did nothing but lead us to second round defeat in the tournament with enough drama to last a life time. Selby has done nothing so far. We don't need one-and-doners. We need players like Chalmers, Arther, Kaun, Collison, Hinrich, Simien, etc. We don't seem to be getting these types of players now. I'm afraid HCBS desire for players with a little "edge" to them has cost us basketball IQ and character. With the exception Reed and Robinson, this is not a team to be real proud of.

Kye Clark 11 years, 7 months ago

They are absolutely recruiting successes. Just because you don't like their performance - either last year or this year - it doesn't change the fact that they were recruiting victories. By throwing Chalmers & Arthur into your list you just named players that were both along the same lines recruiting wise as Selby & Xavier - 5 star McDonald's All-Americans. Arthur was considered to be a potential OAD. You just never know.

As for Selby, there are certainly extenuating circumstances that have led to a thus far disappointing season, but it's not over yet.

RyanKCMO 11 years, 7 months ago

Just to add to what you said in your post, given the goofy one year requirement and unpredictability of how players will progress, pointing to past players that stayed longer than than they could have isn't a good measure-but for an injury Rush was leaving after 2 years, Simien might have been a candidate but for injuries, Langford considered leaving early. On the flip side could anyone honestly say that looking at Aldrich's freshman year, that he would have been the guy to leave early, then he blew up! It's a crap shoot, I think the only theory is recruit the best players you can get and deal with the "too many" one and dones when the problem presents itself (so far it hasn't).

Every year I'm nervous at this point, and every year Self seems to find a way to get the right amount of good players. And I'm critical of his in game moves and pt decisions, but the man and his staff can recruit!

kufankam 11 years, 7 months ago

you speak of players that self "desires"... well the two people that self desired on your list (chalmers/arthur) won a title. the other three (which i love, by the way) never got it done. so before you question the type of players that he is bringing in, you should look at who you are talking about. i seem to remember wayne lead his team to a 1st round loss, so why are you dogging X, who wasn't the leader of last years team?

Also, while this team has been immature, don't forget that your "golden boys (chalmers/arthur as well as rush for that matter)" have had their document "character" struggles as well.

NJHAWK 11 years, 7 months ago

For those who did not read Jason King's article today, here is a small piece from it .........Selby’s situation also puts Self in a tough spot when it comes to recruiting. Opposing coaches are already telling one-and-done-caliber players that Kansas is not a good fit for prospects who plan to make a quick jump to the NBA. As well-coached as the Jayhawks may be, their style of play and balance makes it difficult for any player to put up gaudy numbers while showcasing themselves in front of NBA scouts..........

I am sure that Sean Miller used it to lure Josiah Turner from KU. Self and his staff were recruiting him for three+ years.

Ty Mar 11 years, 7 months ago


KU plays team ball. From what i've seen- our offense is based off feeding the post. Selby seems to be used primarily for penetrating and kickouts for an open 3. With such rare talent, he would probably be better used as a 2 if we could get a true 1...

is this accurate?

Jayhawk444 11 years, 7 months ago

Kentucky doesn't seem to have any problem getting 5star guys to commit when there are already other 5star guys lined up

Chris Shaw 11 years, 7 months ago

Because Calipari is promising them that they will be gone to the NBA the following year.

Chris Bruning 11 years, 7 months ago

Turner is shady. Chol doesn't impress me. Not sayin i wouldn't have been happy if they chose KU, but i ain't losing no sleep!

tjg1, i hope chol did not choose based on girls, that dude looks like he would scare a chick....

gchawk 11 years, 7 months ago

:) I was thinking the same thing, too funny.

NJHAWK 11 years, 7 months ago

<p> is reporting new wrinkle in the recruitment of DD.

Here is the latest wrinkle in the recruiting saga of five-star prospect DeAndre Daniels. Multiple sources out of Minnesota are saying that the Gophers are making headway in the recruitment of Daniels, who has family connections in Minnesota. Sources close to Daniels and outside of Minnesota, however, feel it is unlikely that Daniels would end up at Minnesota.

Regardless, more twists and turns can be expected in Daniels' unusual recruitment.

brooksmd 11 years, 7 months ago

Minnesota? Yeah that would do wonders for his career. lol Just looked at and you gotta do some searching for men's basketball. Now if you're interested in hockey that's a different story.

DB Ashton 11 years, 7 months ago

I continue to be amused at the self-righteousness of those who would leave someone else's money on the table for the sake of their own entertainment, then have the gall to question the purity of some poor working-class child's motives when he has a fragile, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to cash in.

If the twins don't sprint to the bank, they're insane. They will. And they're not.

Andrew Moore 11 years, 7 months ago

Its different for these athletes. They don't deprive themselves of the money by staying in school. In fact, they are making a bet. they're saying, that their draft status can be improved enough and they can accomplish enough (Champs?) next season that will make up for any lost income from waiting a year.

Its simple, the higher you're drafted the more money you make. The more ready to play you are, the more likely you get a good contract once your rookie deal is up. I feel like most of our guys in the NBA that left early and weren't ready (looking at you JuJu) will probably have shorter NBA careers than if they had stayed and been ready. Shorter career = LESS MONEY.

you, and most kids, look at this the same way. Its all about the here and now, but it really isn't. If they can't make an impact in the NBA (I don't think they could yet, and I would have to explain some other time) then they shouldn't leave early. Thats regardless of draft status!

shinguard 11 years, 7 months ago

I agree afmoore,

Look at Jacques Vaughn. One can argue that him staying his senor year and injuring his wrist hurt his draft status. But that extra year's experience running a top notch college team prepared him well for a long NBA career.

Selbyville 11 years, 7 months ago

I think Morris bros come back. I don't think Kieff is gonna be as high on the draft radar as Marcus, and I think they will leave or stay with each other. That being said, I follow them on twitter and they seem to love the life as a Kansas bball player, which, who wouldn't?

Hopefully they can convince Josh to stay because his sophomore leap and a year of playing ball in the system would turn him more into what he can potentially be.

Who knows, none of us, that's for sure

shinguard 11 years, 7 months ago

I predict Marcus is gone after this year as his is NBA ready. Markief, though, should really stay so he can show that he is also capable of carrying a team on his shoulders. The two will eventually have to learn how to play the game without eachother. It would so much better for Markief if he learns how to do this while in college and the stakes are not as high for him.

KUbsee69 11 years, 7 months ago

I believe that whatever they do, they'll do it together ... for as long as they can.

KU_FanSince75 11 years, 7 months ago

Well, crap, that was disappointing (Chol choosing Zona). Hopefully, Daniels can come through for us.

kltbadboyz 11 years, 7 months ago

Arizona has 4 guys coming in next year and only 1 senior in Horne, and Williams possibly going to the NBA. They dont even have enough scholorships to offer for next year as it stands

Chris Shaw 11 years, 7 months ago

Perfect term is "Over-Recruiting". It's the sad part of college athletics. In other words a coach will force a player to transfer or simply make them realize that there simply isn't anymore room for them on the team.

This is the part of college basketball I hate. The unfortunate part of this scenario is that it always happens in the second year of coach's tenure or shortly after an experienced coach has lost a bunch of seniors and has brought in a recruiting class that is filled with 5 to 7 players. If you're a player, you have to be careful in those situations because you have to seriously look at how many kids they are bringing in at your position and who they will recruit the following year.

Joe Baker 11 years, 7 months ago

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. We have Reed, BStar and Little leaving.

Tharpe leaves two schollies?

BMac and DD they're yours. Please sign on the dotted line.

kltbadboyz 11 years, 7 months ago

We will have 4 available, Teahan is using one right now too

manunitedjayhawk 11 years, 7 months ago

I would not call these recruiting "struggles" just bumps in the road. I think this goes to show you how important getting a guy like Perry Ellis is. Although he is a junior we need to make sure we get this young man's signature ASAP. I watched this kid play on Tuesday and I was very impressed. Although he obviously dominates due to lack of competition, his Wichita Heights team is going to win 3 straight title, he is a very complete player. I also have watched some of his training sessions at the YMCA and the kid can flat out shoot the ball. I have talked to him and he is a very humble young man. He plays center in high school because of his size, but his skill set is very diverse. The thing that stood out to me is his ability to pass the basketball. He had some beautiful passes in transition and he understands when you get an offensive rebound you don't have to force the ball back up. He had some great kick outs to teammates for open shots and he handles the double team very well. He reminds me a little bit of Marcus but he honestly might be a better athlete and his free throw shooting is pure. It is high school and he is a beast but he is very talented. He is still a baby and needs to grow into his body, but from what I have seen he is made to be a Jayhawk.

cobweb 11 years, 7 months ago

The twins will stay if everybody gets off their asses. Who out there didn't occasionally do something stupid when they were 20? Anyone??? The twins are tough and competitive, just what you want. People like this occasionally lose their tempers. I'll take 5 more just like them.

Ron Franklin 11 years, 7 months ago

Question to those who want to answer and know more x&o about bball than i.

I noticed during the KSU game that Frank had a great game plan and completely took away the passing lanes on the perimeter. hawks were not able to swing the ball around quickly and get the shots they like.

what would have been the adjustment for this? more picking & rolling? more spacing & movement without the ball?

i have been too busy with work to rewatch the game yet, but I'm anxious to know what adjustments could be made here.

Ron Franklin 11 years, 7 months ago

PS. Is this where we need Selby & Taylor to be able to drive the gaps, create help and dish out? I noticed Reed trying to do that multiple times & I thought thats what neeeded to be done. Drive, drive, drive & force help or a foul & get to the line.

truefan 11 years, 7 months ago

I'm no expert either, but usually when you have a team that is denying the passing lanes you use back door cuts to back them off. If the try to deny the pass from the top of the key to the wing, have the wing player flash to a spot on the three point line, then cut back towards the basket. Teams do it to us all the time because we use primarily man to man defense and try to deny the first pass to keep teams from running set plays smoothly.

If the back door cuts work a couple of times for easy points or fouls against your opponents bigs, the opposing team will have to back off on D or at the very least modify their game plan. Look for CU to use this technique against us on Saturday. They use a modified Princeton offense which utilizes back door cuts and off the ball screens to get open shots or easy lay-ups.

Ron Franklin 11 years, 7 months ago

Thanks. I appreciate learning the game more everyday. I had been wondering if taking away those passing lanes is what ultimately did Ty in on that game....thinking he needed to create, thus more pressure on him. Sometimes he handles the pressure. Sometimes he doesn't.

No_phog 11 years, 7 months ago

Angelo Chol, the top available big man in the ESPNU 100, committed to Arizona over Alabama, Kansas, North Carolina and Washington on Thursday from the Hoover High School auditorium in San Diego, Calif.

"I wanted to be in a situation [where I could] play early in my career and have a chance to win a national championship," said Chol. "I feel with this recruiting class we will have that chance."

OUCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cobweb 11 years, 7 months ago

My daughter looked at U of A. The campus and the girls were so damn pretty, I was ready to write a check. Thankfully, she chose KU.

ragingsquanto 11 years, 7 months ago

She swings that way? Good for you for your support.

Michael Bratisax 11 years, 7 months ago

The U of A and the entire Tuscon area is really nice but it's not KU, especially on Campus.

Kurt Eskilson 11 years, 7 months ago

Maybe we don't get some flashy OADs because Self runs a team-oriented system. Maybe. But my greatest enjoyment is watching these kids develop over time anyway. Getting to know them. Watching them learn and develop into something more than anyone ever thought they could be. I love overachievers like Turgeon, Hinrich, Kaun, RussRob, D-Block, Brady and Tyrel. Remember when Christian Moody was called "the best walk-on basketball player in the history of college basketball" on national TV? You had to feel proud of the young man. Do not misunderstand. I always hope we can recruit the best of the best. Always. And the balanced teams Self builds have been outperforming the OAD showcases Calipari gets anyway!

Michael Bratisax 11 years, 7 months ago

I agree but Chol is no one and done. He is nowhere near NBA ready. Quintrell Thomas is a better player...I wish he would have stuck around. 6'8 and 245 lbs would come in handy right about now.

Ben Kane 11 years, 7 months ago

okay, he's going somewhere else. good luck. KU basketball goes on.

in the meantime... check out our boy taking down the evil dukie!

Saad Saifeddine 11 years, 7 months ago

go kirk. That was hillarious man. redick's teammates were laughing their asses off

Chris Shaw 11 years, 7 months ago

When it comes to recruiting fans are so caught up in "Right Now". In the span of 3 hours I think I've counted numerous negative posts. You know, some of you might be right in the long run should the twins and Selby leave. That would definitely leave some holes no doubt and I guess in the long run I would be a fool and those that have been barking so negatively would definitely have a genius moment.

In the end, there are still too many unanswered questions and possibilities to know for sure how many guys other than the seniors (3) that could possibly leave. With that said, IMO, recruiting hasn't necessarily fallen off; It's just following a trend and plan that Self has set forth. Yes, I know, sometimes it's good to deviate from that plan, but when you have built a foundation like Self has for the Kansas program, you have to pick your spots and battles when it comes to recruiting.

What I mean is that once Self got "His Program" with the recruits from the 2004 and 2005 classes in as freshman and sophomores, his foundation was underway. Now that he won a championship in 2008 with those same recruits Self is trying to figure out how to maintain that success by filling and plugging needs while trying to add to the overall depth of the KU program.

IMO, it's not as easy right now to recruit when you have uncertainities about who is leaving and who is coming back. I don't care what anybody says, Self may be in the know as much as he wants to be, but sometimes college kids can alter that plan and go in a different direction. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's a lot easier to build something up than to build up and then keep it on top. I guess if you want to schools to compare all you have to do is look at where Zona is and look at where KU is currently.

I like trends so I'll go off these statistics and hope that 2012 and 2013 are big years in recruiting which I have no doubts that they will be. I also hope that Self gets another guy to plug a need for the 2011 class just like he did in 2006, 2007, 2010.

2004: #2 2005: #4 2006: #12 2007: NR 2008: #2 2009: #6 2010: #23

Ben Simonett 11 years, 7 months ago

Good Points,

But remember the last time we had a mass exodus like this was post the '08 championship, Self was able to keep the ship from sinking because he countered that exodus with a #2 recruiting class.

What does he have to counter this year with? Naadir tharpe and Maybe Daniels or Mclemore?

In the big picture self is without question a top 3 recruiter in the nation, but this year he is failing badly.

Michael Bratisax 11 years, 7 months ago

As usual, all good points but I'm sure the fact that next year could be..let's say..'not so special' has crossed your mind as well.

Jack Wilson 11 years, 7 months ago

I usually don't get too concerned about this recruiting stuff. But go to and tell me a player at the 4 or 5 that is worth having for next season.

Then, consider that the Morris twins will both likely go pro.

Then, consider that we have an awesome player in TRob, a body in Withey, a walk-on in Wesley. And nothing else.

Hopefully we don't burn a scholarship on just a body.

Am I missing something?

Michael Bratisax 11 years, 7 months ago

Well this is a disappointment. If we have a mass exodus after this year, we could be in some deep sh**.

KULA 11 years, 7 months ago

He must have watched the KState game.

kufankam 11 years, 7 months ago

the morris likely will be back - they have said as much. also, the fact that they have continually shown scouts that they have some growing up to do may hurt their stock. i just think like the majority of this team will return. if they do, and grow up - they could be special!

Benjamin Piehler 11 years, 7 months ago

word on the street is morris' and selby are all gone IF they are projected in the 1st.

Hank Cross 11 years, 7 months ago

Disappointing, but not the end of the world.

  1. Being from SD, maybe he wanted to stay close to home. His family will see him at least twice a year playing the LA teams, and flying southwest to Tuscon, Tempe, the Bay Area and Salt lake is economical. Even though AZ doesn't have KU's standing, it's still well regarded in the P10 and nationally. It's not like he chose a complete loser school with no NC's or even FF's like Mizery.

  2. More than anything big time recruits want to be on tv, and KU is on tv plenty and will continue to be as the flagship franchise for the 2nd game on Big Monday.

  3. I'm not sure the twins are going pro b/c this looks like a real showdown between the NBA owners and players. It sounds as though the owners are dead set on a hard cap and will throw half the season away to get it. The owners know that despite making millions, many players need that constant income stream to maintain their lifestyles. A few missed Bentley payments might bring them to the negotiating table quickly.

If Angelo chose AZ in part b/c there was a real chance he might be fighting the twins for PT, then you really can't fault his thinking.

If, however, the twins and Selby and even maybe TRob go pro, there will be as many minutes as anyone wants in 11-13.

yates33333 11 years, 7 months ago

Arizona isn't the school to worry about. Texas is the Big 12 threat. KU needs more of a presences in the South and South Central area. Of course, the East wouldn't hurt!!

hawksince51 11 years, 7 months ago

Agree--Texas is having another good recruiting year and we have to play them twice starting next year. OSU and Baylor also have landed some top recruits so the old South teams will be a bigger challenge in the future.

Jeff Coffman 11 years, 7 months ago

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the collective bargaining agreement in the NBA. A lot of changes will be made, and many believe that the one and done will be removed. That will free up a few people that will be in front of the Morris Twins (amazing to me). Already my understanding is Trob is a higher recruit than the Morris twins. All that being said, I think the elbow thing has hurt the Morris twins draft status (really Kief). I also don't think that Selby has woken up any scouts yet, and he has been a roller coast (I think he is an awesome player and think he will be similar to a Paul Pierce in the NBA); however, Paul Pierce took three years at KU...I think that Paul was the first player under Roy Williams to leave early to go Pro.

Personally, I think that we will lose Little, Reed, and Morningstar only. Selby might leave just because, but if he follows Paul Pierce, I think three years is ideal for a lot of these players.

I wouldn't be surprised if with questions with the CBA, some of the players might just stay in school.

hawksince51 11 years, 7 months ago

As someone above has pointed out, it often makes sense to stay another year, improve your game and go higher in the draft. I wonder if that might not make sense for Kieff. Whether they both go in the draft this year or only Marcus goes, they are going to have to split up as there is no chance that they would end up with the same team. Marcus will probably be a lottery pick so financially speaking he should go into the draft this year. IMO Kieff is either late 1st round or early 2nd round so he should seriously consider staying at KU another year. Of course I prefer they both stay another year but Marcus is in a position to do very well financially by going into the draft at the end of this year.

jaybate 11 years, 7 months ago

"Losing Chol No Problem, But Finding Two 20-39 Minute Glue Men for Next Year Is a Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge Problem"

Angelo Chol appears to think the Twins and TRob are going to be around; that's good enough for me.

It also has to be daunting to think a once highly ranked footer can barely get on the floor after two years.

Chol is on a 21 and 6 high school team, so he's not good enough to carry a high school team. He wasn't a big scorer. He would not have contributed significantly next season. He would have taken a year on the bench with some 5-7 minute performances as a freshman to even begin to cut it at KU just as Thomas Robinson and Kieff did. So: Self was looking for continuity with Chol and for some insurance in case the Twins jump.

Things will open up for KU, when its clear whether the Twins are going pro, or not.

If the Twins, TRob and Withey come back, KU is crazy good in the paint next year.

If the Twins jump, someone will unstick from a commitment elsewhere and jump to KU, as sure as grass greens up in spring.

If the Twins and TRob jump, then there will be problems in the paint next year that even a magician like Self may not be able to fix for a season, or so.

What no one is really facing up to is that Self probably cannot replace Tyrel and Brady next season, either with what he has coming back, or with anything coming in.

40% trey shooting glue men that defend 1st and 2rd options and don't bake pop tarts are almost as rare as rare as hairs on Danny Manning's head.

Look at the roster. Who coming back is going to be able to do this?

I don't know.

UmbertoConforti 11 years, 7 months ago

Jaybate. Any chance Chol thinks Arizona has a better BB future than KU?

No_phog 11 years, 7 months ago

"I wanted to be in a situation [where I could] play early in my career and have a chance to win a national championship," said Chol. "I feel with this recruiting class we will have that chance."

jaybate 11 years, 7 months ago

Anything is possible. Some athletes choose MU over KU. But the key thing remains...

21-6 w/l statement in high school.


He has Quintrel Thomas written all over him.

Michael Bratisax 11 years, 7 months ago

What Chol thinks might be good enough for you (although I'm more than surprised you would say that) it doesn't do diddly squat for me. He just chose Arizona over Kansas and UNC, so his credibility is more than suspect. If the twins and TRob jump (I know that's a big IF but it is possible), watch what happens if we fall below either Mizzou or KSU next year. I had the misfortune of seeing Ted Owens near his final days and it wasn't pretty. I more than hope this doesn't play out. And your points about Tyrel and Reed are well taken, although Royce Woolridge and Naadir Tharpe are supposed to be the ones to fill their shoes.

Woody Cragg 11 years, 7 months ago

Point well taken JB, but I doubt if HCBS has overlooked this. Certainly he's aware of the too many superstars syndrome. JMO but they're almost to that point now. I do believe Mr Relford will step up big time when called upon. It's likely Daniels is on the way so Cho would not have seen the PT he'll get at AZ. I'd be surprised if HCBS doesn't end up with a scrapper or two next fall. Truthfully I've been more concerned about keeping the bald guy. Never had that much hair when he was a kid either. Anyway, it'd be a shot if the pied piper takes off. Rather "Grimm" to say the least. JMO.

jaybate 11 years, 7 months ago

Your point about Daniels is well taken.

Chol would have found tough sledding even against TRob, Withey and Daniels. With the Twins, he would have thrown a roja Italian smoking jacket.

jaybate 11 years, 7 months ago

No need to wait. You can have them now. :-)

Benjamin Piehler 11 years, 7 months ago

and i suppose you thought xavier was good enough?

spittage 11 years, 7 months ago

Keif is Nba ready... With his talent.. He would become even more dangerous when he start getting Nba workouts.. Hes just as affective as Marcus. McM had an earlier chance to showcase his talent because he didnt have no one to play behind.. Keif had to play behind a all american in cole aldrich.. If cole was Nba ready im for sure that keif is ready.. He ten times more talented then cole.. Nba draft off of potential and MkM has a ton..

TopJayhawk 11 years, 7 months ago

Read between the lines. He wants to start immediatly. Means he doesn't want to have to work to earn his spot. Wants it handed to him. We are better off without him.

Besides, he looks like Donnie Von Moore with dreads.

No_phog 11 years, 7 months ago

Sour Grapes !!!!!!!!!!!!

Kid can want to start by working hard and EARNING IT! grow up.

Ben Simonett 11 years, 7 months ago

I sure wish i had a crystal ball like you do.

is it crimson and blue? because it seems to be predicting the best case scenario that the fans hope plays out and not the most likely scenario of self just missing on the recruiting trail this year.

jaybate 11 years, 7 months ago

I have one and it reads just like The Dude's.

jaybate 11 years, 7 months ago


Give it up.

Lebowski is going to reform school you, if you're not careful.

His keyboard is registered with the police as a concealed weapon.

86finalfour 11 years, 7 months ago

Just saw this in the Jason King article -- hilarious!!

Kansas State – Forty-eight hours after Monday’s victory over Kansas, the Wildcats’ athletic department was selling a DVD of the upset on its website for $19.95. The DVD includes both the television and radio calls of the game as well as postgame interviews. Wow.

Woody Cragg 11 years, 7 months ago

Show me the money! Sounds like they've got a misery approach to customer enthusiasm.

funkitect 11 years, 7 months ago

LOL! that WAS their national championship, you know... got to celebrate greatness! hahahahahaha!

Ben Simonett 11 years, 7 months ago

So where are all of you guys that said i was stupid when i stated self was screwing up on the recruiting trail this year back in october?

Just because i'm not biased like you doesn't mean i don't know what i'm talking about.

P.S. your rationalization that we didn't need Chol because the twins are staying is funny. they are both potential first round picks right now, wanting them to stay doesn't mean they are going to. Stop talking like you know what they are going to do.

Woody Cragg 11 years, 7 months ago

Is that JYO? Or maybe you aren't really Fredo after all? Impressive.

jaybate 11 years, 7 months ago


You still deliver the best sledge hammer put-down in posting.

I think I just saw bennybob running to the doctor trying to get his ding-a-ling sewn back on. :-)

God, I hope you don't notice that I defended TT today.

I noticed in your post that TT was giving you migraines.

TT can do that to a Jayhawk fan.

But, Lebowski, there's always take two Lyrica and call me in the morning. :-)

P.S.: Don't think that just because I defended him, I do not occassionally want Self to chain him to the stairmaster.

jaybate 11 years, 7 months ago

I warned you, bennybob.

Now all I can do is give you the number of a plastic surgeon that specializes in penile reconnections.

Ben Simonett 11 years, 7 months ago

I say to you what i say to everyone else who tries put self on a level above every other coach in the country:

How do you know self was honest with chol? were you in the room with him when he was making his pitch?

it makes me so mad when fans like you think you know what goes on behind the scenes of the program.

Maybe Chol chose Arizona because its closer to home? maybe immediate playing time wasnt the deciding factor? you have no idea what was going on inside the kids head. stop pretending like you do.

Ben Simonett 11 years, 7 months ago

wait, your playing the #76 ranking card?

werent you giving me crap when i said self swung and missed when he had to settle for tharpe after josiah turner chose arizona over KU as well?

conejo23 11 years, 7 months ago

hey guys, full disclosure: I'm an Arizona alumnus and long time fan, was interested in the Kansas perspective on Chol and found this article. I found the comments interesting and just wanted to add my perspective. Take it FWIW.

First, I view Kansas as one of the top 3-5 programs in the country and have immense respect for your program. You guys are loaded with talent and very well coached year in and year out. I'm not familiar with who you have currently in your recruiting pipeline but it's hard for me to believe that losing Chol is going to have that big an impact on your program. I think he has the potential to be a very good 3-4 year player, but he's probably not the kind of kid who is going to come into Kansas and earn starter's minutes as a freshman with the depth you guys currently have in the post.

My guess is he chose Arizona for a few different reasons:

  1. He has a great relationship with Sean Miller. Miller is a terrific coach and recruiter, but so much of recruiting depends on the individual relationship. Different kids just hit it off better with certain coaches. Doesn't mean one coach is doing a 'better' job than another, just some fits are better than others personality-wise.

  2. It's close to home.

  3. We're blessed that our program is strongly on the rise. The development of our team within this year has been remarkable and it demonstrates that Miller knows how to 'coach up' his players. I'm sure that made an impression on Chol's coach, Ollie Goulston. Then you look at the guards we have coming in next year with Nick Johnson and Josiah Turner, and it's clear we're just a quality big man away from having the potential to be a very strong team next season.

  4. We're VERY thin in the post, unlike you guys. Our only true center (from a physical perspective) is horrible and rarely plays and will likely be leaving the team after this year. We desperately need quality big men and there WILL be opportunity for minutes early, though they'll need to be earned.

Put it all together and we were a good fit for Angelo. Had he chosen KU I would've been disappointed but wished him well. I'm glad he's coming to Tucson.

one final note: I'd LOVE to see us put together an ongoing home and home series with you guys. Would do more for us than you, but I believe you get better by playing the best, and playing at your place is one of the great challenges in college hoops.

Good luck to you guys this March, you have the tools and coaching to make a serious run.

Michael Bratisax 11 years, 7 months ago

Nice job conejo...your perspective seems on target.

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