Kansas defeats Long Beach State, 88-80

  • 8 p.m., Dec. 6, 2011
  • Allen Fieldhouse, Lawrence, KS

Wednesday, December 7, 2011

Not great late: KU’s carelessness has Bill Self steaming

Kansas forward Thomas Robinson celebrates for the television cameras after a put-back dunk against Long Beach State during the second half Tuesday, Dec. 6, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas forward Thomas Robinson celebrates for the television cameras after a put-back dunk against Long Beach State during the second half Tuesday, Dec. 6, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 88-80 victory over Long Beach State on Dec. 6, 2011.

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KU vs. Long Beach State

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KU defeated Long Beach State, 88-80, on Tuesday, Dec. 6, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Sure, it was great that Thomas Robinson scored a career-high 26 points and dandy that Jeff Withey nearly recorded a triple-double with 13 points, 13 rebounds and nine blocks.

Those individual feats didn’t have coach Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self smiling after his Jayhawks’ entertaining, but sloppy, 88-80 victory over Long Beach State on Tuesday night in Allen Fieldhouse.

“We are the worst passing team I have ever seen,” Self proclaimed after watching his team see a 19-point lead to shrink to four late, courtesy of a second half in which the Jayhawks committed 16 turnovers against just four assists. Overall, KU had 16 assists and 22 turnovers and had the ball stolen a whopping 15 times.

“It’s ridiculous to watch,” Self added. “You can look up and down the lineup, and there’s nobody that values the ball at all.”

Self was so miffed at his team’s passing that he cautioned the fans what they might expect in Saturday’s 2:15 p.m. home battle against No. 2 Ohio State.

“If we handle the ball like that, they can pick the score,” Self said. “Let’s just call it like it is. They will pick the score in our own building if we handle the ball like that. We have to do a better job. Elijah (Johnson, four turnovers, five assists, 20 minutes) ... unbelievable, the plays he made after he subbed back in after his sitting because of his fourth foul (with 16:40 left). Incredible he can make those plays when he’s sitting over there watching and knowing the score and the circumstances in which we need him to give us some minutes to win the game. We have to have a lot better guard play. We need to have everybody play better.

“It will be a jailbreak,” Self added of Saturday, “if we turn the ball over against Ohio State. They won’t just be running out and scoring two points. They will be making plays that are ESPN Top-10 plays. We have to handle and pass it and maybe think the game a little better Saturday.”

As far as the guards, off guard Conner Teahan scored a career-high 14 points off 4-of-5 three-point shooting, and Tyshawn Taylor had 12 points, five turnovers and four assists in 34 minutes.

Taylor showed no effects of a right knee injury he suffered at practice Monday.

“The doctors said he tweaked it,” Self said, noting the injury was not believed to be serious. Also, Johnson had six points in 23 minutes. Freshman point Naadir Tharpe didn’t play. Self said it was “coach’s decision.”

“We shot the ball great and shared it great early,” Self said. “Thomas was on fire. We actually defended them pretty well except for ball-screen defense. We had so many mental breakdowns that allowed them to score 39 the first half (to KU’s 51). In the second half, our defense was pretty good, but our offense sucks.

“The thing that’s so pitiful,” Self went on, “is of their 41 points the second half, 25 were off our turnovers. Our guards had zero assists, six turnovers the second half. It’s hard to look good when you don’t get shots. It is as miserable a performance the last 10 minutes as I’ve ever seen.”

Robinson scored 18 points — just two off his previous career-high total of 20 — in the first half alone as KU raced to a 51-39 halftime lead. Teahan drilled four threes in the half and totaled 12 points, which actually surpassed the career-high of 11 he tied the previous game against South Florida.

Robinson (10-14 from field overall) was credited with perfect 8-of-8 shooting the first half, the official scorers giving him a turnover instead of a shot on a play in which he hoisted the ball toward the goal from about six feet out.

Robinson had 16 points and Teahan 12 off combined perfect 11-of-11 shooting as KU led by 19 points — 34-15 — with 9:30 left in the first half. However, Long Beach State, which was paced by T.J. Robinson’s 17 first-half points, cut the gap to 10 twice — 41-31 and 43-33.

The 49ers, who trailed by 11 with 1:37 to play (83-72), were down by just four, 84-80, with 42.2 seconds left.

Taylor hit two free throws at :33.3 and Withey two more at :23.1, averting a shocking late loss. Another key stretch was with just under three minutes left. KU led, 77-72, when Robinson missed two free throws. Teahan rebounded the second, then after a deep Robinson miss, Teahan rebounded again. Taylor then drove for a basket and hit a free throw, and KU led, 80-72, at 2:09.

“The biggest play Conner made was when he got two offensive rebounds in one possession,” Self said. “It led to a three-point play off two terrible shots. Conner made some good plays, but he got picked for a layup late, too. Our ball-handling is just atrocious.”

KU did improve to 6-2; Long Beach State fell to 4-4.

“They have a good team, a fun team to watch,” Self said of the 49ers.


Ian Brown 10 years, 6 months ago

I had already posted this in the "Post-game discussion", but I thought it would be more visible here, plus it's quite relevant. It was a response to someones disapproving assessment of Tyshawn's passing. And let me preface it by saying that Self's first statement took the words out of my mouth: "We are the worst passing team I have ever seen." Unfortunately, I am in total agreement with thySelf.

While I agree with you in that I believe Tyshawn needs to "learn" how to pass the ball and value each possession, I disagree when you say, "if Releford can pass the ball with both hands..."

Now I assume you're implying that Releford passes the ball better than Tyshawn, not only in terms of accuracy, but fundamentally as well, and that Tyshawn should take note of it and use Releford as a model... Well, unfortunately, that simply is not so. They both happen to turn the ball over at about the same rate, and it's not good.

They each have a negative assist-to-turnover ratio, both having handed the ball to the opposing team three more times than they've hit a teammate with a pass that resulted in a bucket. (Releford, 15 assist:18 turnovers; Tyshawn, 29:32).

Sadly, it's not just Tyshawn that's turning over the ball at an alarming rate and is simply careless with the ball in general. It's the entire team.

In fact, there are just two players in the regular rotation with a positive ratio. Surprisingly, Elijah has the best assist-to-turnover ratio on the team with a whopping 30:19 ratio, while Teahan has a 9:6 ratio. Everyone else is in the red.

Coach Self said before the season started that focus would be a problem for this team, EJ and Tyshawn in particular, and that wasn't just coach-talk; he was telling the absolute truth. A vast majority of our turnovers are from lazy passes and a number of different mental lapses.

How do you teach/coach focus? I'm not sure. Jaybate might know the answer to that one. But I'm afraid Tyshawn will never be able to harness 100% of his attention and focus it entirely on the play at hand for an entire game. I had high hopes for him prior to the season, but I'm afraid I was quite mistaken. Tyshawn is a better shooter and scorer than he was when he came in as a freshman, but, in my opinion, he has made very little, if any, progress in terms of maturing on the court and improving his ability to maintain focus throughout an entire game.

jhawkinhogcountry 10 years, 6 months ago

Agree completely with these comments. Tyshawn TURNOVER, along with the rest of our guards, has to value the ball EVERY possession for us to have a succesful season. The Self comment about lack of focus is dead on!! It got pretty scary at the end just watching them try to get the ball inbounds and over the half court line against their pressure. Saturday WILL be ugly unless they heed Self's advice about focusing on every possession.

Joe Baker 10 years, 6 months ago

Especially since Rel is a four yr junior? and TT is a senior with more experience than most? Unacceptable at this point.

joshar 10 years, 6 months ago

I agree with you and Coach Self. Our ball-handling and passing is just atrocious. We just make lazy and careless passes. Withey plays like it's hot potato when he gets the defensive rebound. Not to knock on Withey's game, he had a great game except he turned the ball over under the other team's basket when he got the rebound at least three times, which turned into a basket or someone having to pick up a foul. That just shows the carelessness of the team. Even the big men don't have patience to let the other team clear.

oldrocker 10 years, 6 months ago

Totally agree with your assessment of TT...those lazy, one handed passes drive me insane! Really hoped for more improvement from him in his last year. At least he hasn't been getting as many charging calls lately.

Bangkok_Jayhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Would really like to have seen Selby in his second year this year.

railer20 10 years, 6 months ago

Wish in one hand and S*** in the other and see which one fills up first

Armen Kurdian 10 years, 6 months ago

What if you had REALLY BIG hands? You could be sitting on the pot for days.

Kye Clark 10 years, 6 months ago

Hey, get your own avatar! I've had this one for 2 years/

smithy 10 years, 6 months ago

Couldn't have said it better. I was absolutely dumbfounded with a minute + left and we had an 11 or 12 point lead and absolutely threw the ball away, stumbled and fumbled around to the point where it dwindled to 4 points very late. I told my wife that we are going to have to accept the fact that Tyshawn simply cannot help himself.....he just has to do dumb stuff, stuff that drives coaches and fans crazy. Then he will do someting good and folks tend to forget the dumb stuff.....NOT ME! I am frustrated with him to the point that though we need him, sometimes he is an absolute weight around our neck, hell bent on giving the ball away. I truly have no idea what he is thinking but what I now believe is that his basketball IQ is in the lower quartile. Add to that the fact that we absolutely need Elijah to perform like a Big 12 player and he does in spurts then reverts back to barnyard stuff. I fear we are in for a very long year living with guys who do not value the basketball and have far too many empty possessions. Whatever we do in the Big 12 and if we get into the NCAA tournament, we will have a very short life there and we have no one to blame but ourselves.......and not having recruited players capable to be eligible and helping the team. The old saying that KU does not rebuild, they reload is a farce this year. We are a very marginal team, capable of some good things but smply have a death wish. I fear that wish will come true on Saturday.

John Mueller 10 years, 6 months ago

I think u guys have covered it.

Many of us said it, early on: You will have to be patient to watch this team.

We have enough talent and ridiculous athleticism at the guard spot, but we appear to have 2 mental midgets right now playing guard.

Hopefully, they will both get it together this season and by the end, we will have a nice team.

Releford is interesting too. Can the guy score, or not? He seems to be afraid to shoot the ball.

Jeff Withey is playing hard. It should be fun to watch his improvement over the season. He is obviously not the athlete than TRob is, but man, he seems to play hard every night.

Be patient, fellow Jayhawks. We are pretty spoiled and this year, we have some kids trying to play a man's game and it won't always be pretty, but i remain optimistic.

But, I don't think you have to be a tremendous athlete to be a good passer. A pinch of anticipation and three scoops of give a crap and you can become a passer. For crype sakes, that's all most of us can contribute, that is why it is so frustrating!!!!

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

“We are the worst passing team I have ever seen,”

It’s ridiculous to watch,” Self added. “You can look up and down the lineup, and there’s nobody that values the ball at all.”

Self was so miffed at his team’s passing that he cautioned the fans what they might expect in Saturday’s 2:15 p.m. home battle against No. 2 Ohio State.

“If we handle the ball like that, they can pick the score,” Self said. “Let’s just call it like it is. They will pick the score in our own building if we handle the ball like that. We have to do a better job.

Coach Self, you are my hero. Thank you for saying all that Coach, because if me (or any other poster) would have said the exact same thing - we'd be slammed for being "haters" or "trolls".

When one of the most highly respected coaches in all of college basketball talks about his team like that - it's kind of a big red flag.

We have got the raw talent to play with anyone in the country. We seem to have an extremely low "basketball IQ" this season. Does Withey know that he does not HAVE to bring the ball down after every offensive rebound? Someone might tell him he can actually tip it, dunk it or bank it off the glass while it's still up there over everyone else's heads...... Do we have to telegraph every single pass? Could at least 10% of the time someone use a pump fake?

For as much subpar play as I've seen so far this year, I still have a good feeling that these guys will gel and this schedule will help us in March.

LSHawk 10 years, 6 months ago

+1 on the Withey comment, I was screaming that the last 3 games!!

KGphoto 10 years, 6 months ago

I wouldn't call you a hater or a troll. I might call you a whiner though :O No, I totally agree with everything you said. Those are probably my favorite quotes from Bill's entire KU career. "...they can pick the score,..." You can just smell the smoke rolling off this entire sentence.

I almost couldn't watch stretches of that game with Taylor in. I was screaming at the tv, "Take him out! Take him out! We don't need him right now!" Its was like watching the Misery game when Webb was in.

That said, even though the 49ers are pretty damn good, we tightened up when it became dangerously close, and peeled off a win. We're probably gonna have to live with "playing up to our competition" all year.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

You're right KG - I really don't want to hate on TT, I want him to help us, but I think we were up 16-4 (?) when he came in the game and I could almost feel the team deflate. We continued to build a lead for a while, but when we were up 19, I told my wife "you watch - in the 2nd half we'll have blown this lead and only be up 4 or 5".

"The Beach" as their jerseys stated are a solid, experienced team. But it really doesn't seem to matter who we're playing. With few exceptions we appear to be a better team without Taylor in the game.

KGphoto 10 years, 6 months ago

Sad but true. I think he just needs to come in for stretches as a shooting guard. He's still shooting over 50% from 3 this year. The guy just isn't a point guard.

I was saying the same thing about the lead, but mostly because I knew we couldn't keep up that torrid shooting pace, and we weren't really playing great fundamental ball other than that.

I keep hoping we install Tharpe at the point and get him to run Bill's "stuff". Then maybe the pieces will fall into place.

Armen Kurdian 10 years, 6 months ago

My favorite Taylor trait are his drives to the basket. He did it over & over against Georgetown & UCLA and drew so many fouls it was ridiculous, and against non-top tier teams, he should keep doing that, and his FT percentage is pretty good I believe. However, I could have shot him for that stupid turnover at the end of the Duke game.

I've said this many times before, and this is why we lose in the NCAA tourney to crappy teams. Every minute of every game, our singular desire must be to wipe the other team from the face of creation, to crush their desire to live and make them sorry they ever picked up a basketball.

Against Kentucky, we were just overmatched. They're a dang good team, I felt no shame in getting smacked by those guys. Even against Duke, yeah we made some mistakes, but we got beaten by a terrific team. Our creed should also include NOT losing to second and third-tier teams. We play clean but angry, smooth, yet determined, and we'll do fine. Mistakes will happen not & then. But 16 turnovers against 4 assists? Are you kidding?

WilburNether 10 years, 6 months ago

"Coach Self, you are my hero. Thank you for saying all that Coach, because if me (or any other poster) would have said the exact same thing - we'd be slammed for being "haters" or "trolls".

Excellent point. Yeah, "low basketball IQ" is one way to put it. Another is to make the factual observation that this team plays stupid, especially the guards. Anyone should be able to see this, but if one dares to say it, the idiot fanbois here, the ones whose KU jock idols can do no wrong, come out of the woodwork with their "hater" nonsense. They can go on living in their little fantasy world while rational people deal with the real world, including the reality of this team's stupid, inept play.

I share your hope that the team will gel and play much better in March. But while I hope that will be the case, I'm afraid it won't happen. When our starting guards are a junior and a senior, and they are playing so poorly now, I don't know how much room for improvement there will be. If they were a freshman and a sophomore, yes, one could anticipate improvement. With a junior and senior.....not so much. I'm afraid they will be then what they are now.

brooksmd 10 years, 6 months ago

"When our starting guards are a junior and a senior, and they are playing so poorly now, I don't know how much room for improvement there will be."

A few weeks ago I got blasted when somebody said it will be fun to watch TT develop into a senior leader this year and I replied that he should already be prepared to be a senior leader and not be developing. I have been a fan of TT since day one, but after 3 years I would expect better.

Joe Baker 10 years, 6 months ago

I hate to say it, but you're right. The worse thing is if they were mostly freshmen, I would totally understand. When your IQ is lacking with juniors and seniors, it's a little scary.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

I guess we're lucky that with a record of 6-2 and ranked #14 (or whatever) that we're still able to complain! Lol. We are very spoiled basketball fans, and I couldn't be happier about that!

I didn't mean to be so negative, but you are so right when you mentioned jr's and sr's - it's very frustrating when they are making the mental mistakes. It's not just Tyshawn, but he's a little more high profile and I think more is expected of him.

Anyway - I'm pretty confident that they will be smarter and playing well together (please, please, please!) as the season progresses, and we will do well in March.

Joe Baker 10 years, 6 months ago

Yeah- I'm a little mixed on what to think right now. I think optimistically hopeful is the best way to describe what I think right now for this team, which is good.

We can't complain at all. It is way too early to complain.

Theonlythingthatexceedsyourbad 10 years, 6 months ago

Both have the ability to transform into better players. In basketball these mistakes can be corrected. Important to remember that their basketball IQ is not low, because they both have the ability to dominate. They are simply struggling to bring the inner beast every single night. That's a lot to ask, to perform at a top level, even MJ couldn't do it. But what makes a solid player is consistency, TT may never have it because his game is so preoccupied. EJ has all the potential in the world.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Good point jhwksrock. And I apologize for my negativity. We have high standards and expect much from our teams and it's easy to point out what's wrong, especially knowing that we're not responsible for fixing them.

JuanValdez 10 years, 6 months ago

With all due respect to coach Self those are the guards he recruited.

Steven Mathew 10 years, 6 months ago

But he expected them to have matured by now...and that doesn't appear to be the case.

Mike Barnhart 10 years, 6 months ago

Gonna' test the patience of the entire Jayhawk nation this year. Hope Coach Self's blood pressure can take it!

Alohahawk 10 years, 6 months ago

That's my line from after the Duke game. :-(

LngTimeFan 10 years, 6 months ago

TT is just a hot dog who doesn't get it after all his time at KU. He seems to think he can turn it on whenever he needs to, which is ridiculous. Every yeat the same problem goes on and on. EJ gets a little bit of a break because he is still learing. TT won't learn because he thinks its not important. Releford still almost always looks lost to me. Withey has worked with the Twins, TRob, and Danny for all of his time here and still does not understand footwork. Bill will just have to hang in there and hold them responsible. Having potential that they do not use or demostrate is no better than being average, which TT is for sure.

Martin Rosenblum 10 years, 6 months ago

I like the challenge that he threw down with his comment about the ESPN Top Ten Plays. I'm sure that his guys do not want the embarrasment of seeing themselves on ESPN watching as Ohio State "Top Ten Plays of the Night's" them while they're looking like deer in headlights.

jhox 10 years, 6 months ago

If I was coaching against us, I'd tell my guards to over play every single pass. We never look to go back door. We are bad in need of one practice devoted to nothing else but looking for opportunities to go back door on teams. If we just did that we would beat Ohio State on Saturday, because you know they're being told to over play every pass we throw.

Dyrk Dugan 10 years, 6 months ago

One question about our guard play and passing and the like (BTW, TRob made one of the TOs late....and Withey for some reason tried to make two foot passes right to the Long Beach team after it's everyone)....where is Elijah Johnson?

he must start getting ready to play. I mean seriously....where is he? He fouled out last night with six or seven minutes left? a guard fouls out that early in a home game? We can't have EJ play like this and be a good team....just can't. and just six points.

I go back to when we lost to UK...when Teahan (bless his heart last night, he was the difference in the game) and Wesley combine for more points than Releford and Johnson.....we're in trouble. last night? 16 and 16....and we definitely never iced it...and should have won by 14 or 15.

bottom line: this team has flaws...big time flaws that i don't know if they are correctable. Maybe EJ will pull out of it ....i don't know. Tyshawn, God love him, makes you so mad and so happy...all in the same sequence of plays. Releford had good looks last night in the 2nd half from three...and didn't come close.

i know we'll be ready to play the OSU on Saturday....i just don't think we're good enough right now to beat them. and they could beat us bad 15 or more. Let's just hope some ball handling drills are emphasized this week....i'm sure Coach Self might include it.

Bellator 10 years, 6 months ago

I agree and at the risk of being told to let the dead rest.....If Turner Gill would have given some honest assessments of his team like Self does I would have had a lot more respect for him.

I think the boys will be jacked up for Saturdays game so hopefully they can take enough ADD blockers for two halves.

Rock Chalk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alex Berger 10 years, 6 months ago

Not to be a Gill homer but whenever he did talk about his players not executing he would get pounced on for not taking responsibility for the loss. It helps to build a winning reputation to be able to have some flexibility in calling it how it is.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

that's ok ! I feel better after all those positive notes!

AsadZ 10 years, 6 months ago

At the beginning of this season HCBS had said that fans better be ready for some grind out wins. Boy this team has taken it to the next level. I just can't imagine such a sloppy play, especially from our experienced players/guards. Could fatigue be a factor in addition to mental lapses? May be. But, boy, this height of sloppiness is unbelieveable.

On a positive note I was really impressed by Withey. He was our best player last night. He was a force especially on D. His presence in the paint saved use many points. It is great to see development in his game and he is getting confident. He was last night's Hawk to Rock. Great Job Big Fella.

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 6 months ago

Telling you, he and EJ (gee, where is he from?) are point shaving. EJ fouling out with 5 minutes left. Your senior point guard missing two free throws late then getting a push off called on him in his own backcourt. . .

KGphoto 10 years, 6 months ago

How much did you lose by the way? I think the line was 12. You took it didn't you?

ahpersecoachingexperience 10 years, 6 months ago


I dont bet on basketball games. And rehab is for quitters!

tis4tim 10 years, 6 months ago

This year's edition is about as manic a squad as I can recall. Games ebb and flow and momentum shifts, but to score 51 points in the first half followed by 6 points in the first 8 minutes of the second half ... maybe we should slip some Lithium into the Gatorade. But give LBS credit. That's a senior-laden team with guys who have played together for four years. They can pretty much complete each others' sentences and they're going to give other teams fits all season. Just ask Pitt.

As for TT, he can still surprise. The problem is I never know whether it will be due to brilliance or bone-headedness. After four years, I just have to believe that we're stuck with his Jekyll and Hyde routine for the remainder of his days at KU. Let's just hope the brilliance shines through when we need it and the bone-headedness happens when it doesn't matter.

For the record, Teahan is my player of the game. Robinson was his usual bad self and Withey was extremely impressive (and is slowly becoming one of my favorites), but Teahan's 4 3's in the first half set the tone for the game and his two offensive rebounds in the latter stages, may have saved it. Dare I say maybe we should start him from here on out?

One last thing: does anybody have any idea what Coach Monson was jawing about during the congratulatory handshake with Coach Self? He seemed a bit perturbed with something and it looked like he was letting Self know about it. It just felt a bit more spirited than the usual formalities. Just wondering ...

Jocelyn Kennedy 10 years, 6 months ago

I wondered the same thing - it went on too long for just the usual congrats. I know we looked bad from a lot of angles but I'm so happy for and proud of Withey, Robinson and Teahan for taking their games to a greater level! And yes, I say start Teahan - I even considered the knee tweak not being for real.

FLJHK 10 years, 6 months ago

Very worthy criticism by coach Self. That being said, TRob is freak of nature good, Withey FAR better than advertised, and Teahan deserved a game ball for his clutch play last night. Lots of work to do, but the ceiling for this team is far higher than I had anticipated.

HAWKTOPIA 10 years, 6 months ago

HCBS needs to take more of the responsibity. it was easy to see the guards split and rely on cross court passes. With LBS's aggressive D, the guards were being forced to the side. There were no picks, no near ball support, no high big, just a support guard hugging the far sideline. Also, when we penitrated or passed inside, and the ball would come back out, we were never ready to shoot (except the very start of the game). These 3 point shots approx level to the free throw line must be drained! And when the other team is shooting 3's whithey must make the shooter step back with his cover behind the pick. when the ball is in a players hands you cannot think, making it look like you were there to defend is defending. Every time we had two guys near the ball, they either pulled up and drained it, or passed to the other mans cover for a stand up 3.

Coach, there is more wrong here than the guards throwing the ball away. tt has been doing that for years.

on a better note, we time and time again let teams bring us to the fatal choke zone, and work out of it. except Duke and Kentucky. While we suffer total possession lapses, we are going to the line and sinking free throws, even at the final minutes, and that wins games.

Put in two guards that want to support each other with picks and proximity, and tell them to take it to the hole! or dish or pass the corner for a 3. its not that hard. If our point guard cannot take it up the middle, get another one out there.

railer20 10 years, 6 months ago

Coach Self could take a little responsibility for on the ball screen defense, but for the turnovers???? no way. He is exactly right when he says they don't value the ball. That has nothing to do with coaching at this point in kids "learning" days. If you are at this level and especially playing at KU you should know when and when not to pass a freaking ball.

Robert Murphy 10 years, 6 months ago

It's just like Bill Self to put a pretty face on this great performance. As long as Bill keeps looking through rose colored glasses it's hard to see this team improve. One last word to Jeff Withey DO NOT DRIBBLE THE BALL. Yesterday the Missouri Tigers looked like poetry in motion. Kansas looked like harem scarem.

Ian Brown 10 years, 6 months ago

Ummm... Did you not even read the article, or do you just have serious reading comprehension problems?

I'm pretty sure Self blatantly stated that we were awful, pitiful to watch, we'll get smoked by tOSU if we play like we did last night, and for a direct quote, "We are the worst passing team I have ever seen..."

In what way is Self continuing to "look through rose colored glasses"?

Are you simply a troll and trying to get a rise out of actual fans? If so, you succeeded. Congrats.

As for your precious Misery Tigers, I will admit that they have looked good against those borderline D-2 schools and teams that are vastly overrated year-in and year-out like California and 'Nova.

And I hate to admit it, but I really, really, really wish we had recruited Marcus Denmon.. What an incredible difference he would make in our backcourt...

But then again, I guess most Jayhawk fans wouldn't want a player like Denmon, seeing as how rivals considered him a 3 star and rated number 150 in the class of '08. The wizards at ESPN had him overlooked completely. But it is all about the 5 stars and top 25-50 recruits, right?

Sorry about that, I digress. I don't feel like delving into the unmerciful depths of recruiting, so I apologize for even bringing it up.

Robert Murphy 10 years, 6 months ago

Hay ralster I'm a fan of good basketball who ever plays it. Can't you morons take a joke.

Robert Murphy 10 years, 6 months ago

Say brown don't you get a little tongue in cheek or do you have a reading comprehension problem? Why is it everyone on here is so thin skinned and have over developed parents (I'm OK , Your not OK). This doesn't bod well for your personnel relationships.

Marcia Parsons 10 years, 6 months ago

Or for my personal relationships. All of my personnel is doing fine, thanks.

John Randall 10 years, 6 months ago

Do either of you know sarcasm from stinky diapers?

This is the easiest message board in the country to make half the home fans sound like dorks!

kupride4u 10 years, 6 months ago

Any idea what Munson was so upset about with Self after the game? Looked like he was ready to lay into him a little bit when they were shaking hands after the game, but the cameras didn't cover it long enough.

lama 10 years, 6 months ago

Was wondering that, too -- he was chapped about something.

kupride4u 10 years, 6 months ago

I could read his lips, he said "And let me tell you something." But the camera left him shortly after that.

KGphoto 10 years, 6 months ago

I just watched it a few times. I don't think it was anything. He is just an intense guy and looks intense whenever he talks. They were having a cordial handshake and were about to walk away when Dan seemed to bring up something about the game. Could have been anything but I doubt he was angry with Bill because he had no reaction at all.

Joe Baker 10 years, 6 months ago

Monson was pissed about Withey's play at one point. I don't remember what Withey did but he got some FTs. Funny, I remember when Withey was way laid with an elbow from LBST and the refs totally let them play. In fact LBST got some FTs too after Withey picked himself off the floor.

I think teams are going to test KU's resolve and physical play. They are going to mug TT every chance they get. This is the second team next to dook that mugged TT. He will have to get more aggressive with the ball. TRob can hold his own and all this crap about Withey being soft is a major opp for teams to tap.

Marcia Parsons 10 years, 6 months ago

Monson was asked about it by a reporter, and he said he thanked Bill for giving them a chance to play in the famous Allen Field House. Bill describes him as a friend, so I don't think it was anything bad.

John Randall 10 years, 6 months ago

One of Monson's comments was "Worst officiating crew I ever saw."

Just listening on a radio, I had that feeling from the pace of the game, poor decisions, that neither team was able to be confident that calls would be consistent or reasonable, even. The few video clips I have seen bolster that opinion.

It is shameful when officiating draws more attention than the play of the game.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 6 months ago

Had to DVR and watch late -- 1) I have to say that this was perhaps Tharpe's best game. He had zero turnovers, made zero mistakes. Didn't have any negative impact on the game at all. It's good to see a kid like that, particularly on a team like this with very little depth, have the opportunity to get his legs under him in game like this, in advance of Ohio St. In his minutes this season, he has 8 assists and just 4 turnovers. While that 2-1 ratio is pretty good, we can't say that it's better than what we've been seeing. 2) Seriously .. Tharpe doesn't get 8-10 minutes? Heard it was a coach's decision. Wonder why .. if there is something else there besides performance? Also was wondering ... just based on history ... if TT not starting really was based on him tweaking his knee (since he did play 34 minutes). 3) Self says “We are the worst passing team I have ever seen,” -- as quoted above. I have to comment on that. I say to coach Self .. you have created this monster. This is your baby. TT in particular. Self has started him for four seasons. What about this is a surprise? But TT is not the only offender. This is a team effort throwing the ball around. 4) How much is this team (or last year's team) being held back by not having a point guard that can consistently deliver scoring opportunities? Note Phil Pressey's 12 assists for MU last night. Or watch UNC's point guard. Lots of examples. I've been on this bandwagon for way too long. It's a handicap to the offense. 5) Withey said in the KC Star that we are "just so young." This is not a "young" team. Some inexperience? Of course, most every team has that. But this is a team of upper-classmen. The way we handle the ball, we look like a team of K-State freshmen and sophomores. 6) On Taylor, though, he did make some big plays. Important plays. The "enigma machine" -- just keeps cranking along. 7) Withey;TRob each played a complete game. 8) Young did not look lost in his 5 minutes; actually looked ok on the defensive end.

This is a streaky, streaky team. Can explode anytime, can implode anytime.

Marcia Parsons 10 years, 6 months ago

I suspect the passing deficiencies have always been there with this group. It was hidden last year because Self kept the ball in the hands of the twins and Morningstar and Reed as much as possible. Whatever else you might think about those guys, they could handle the ball. Now we are relying on the "other guys" and Self says there isn't a natural passer in the bunch.

Robert Brock 10 years, 6 months ago

I don't understand what is going on with Elijah Johnson. Maybe he is ill.

RockChalk26 10 years, 6 months ago

It's that darn undershirt. Lose the shirt EJ!

John Randall 10 years, 6 months ago

Oh Lord, please let him start playing like Brady!

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

To the people who say that Self is responsible for this team's poor play. Mmmmm. Not so sure. Does that mean that he gets all the credit when they play well too?

If any of you are parents, it is 100% your fault when your kids mess up. They have no mind of their own, no capability of being responsible for their own actions - you're just a bad parent when they mess up. Of course, you're a good parent when they do well. Choose your spouse carefully so you can sire perfect children.....

If you're an employer - be cautioned. If your employees screw up, it's because you're a bad boss. Be very careful who you hire......

Yes, Self recruited them. He can't make them make good decisions. Can't make them throw accurate passes. Can't keep them from dribbling the ball off their foot or taking bad shots.

He'll get it figured out. But he could sure use some help. The players might actually want to try applying themselves and making themselves better. They could actually THINK about what they're doing, instead of playing without focus and letting the fans blame it on the coach.

Justin Carlson 10 years, 6 months ago

I know Thatpe is a freshman and will not show flashes of offensive greatness, but why is he not getting any minutes when as stated by BS and above our guards can't make the simple 3rd grade girls basketball clinic pass!

Tharpe right now is the most impressionable/moldable player on the team!!

BS speaks "Tharpe take care of the ball, feed the post, attack the lane if it is open, always look to pass, never force a shot, only shoot the 3 on ball reversal or dump down and kick out, and above all else play defense like you are posessed!!"

I doubt he would have a negative assist / turnovers even if he was dead even it cant get any worse!

I just feel we are wasting a guard that can be told This is your 5 offensive game rules 1. pass 2. pass 3 pass 4 pass 5 wide open layup....ok shoot that. I am sure 4 pts 6/7 assists and 3 TO's in 20 minutes is better than the bench!

Your thoughts??

Theonlythingthatexceedsyourbad 10 years, 6 months ago

Weak sauce. The point guard needs a more scoring attitude than that. That method is outdated. Teams need a point that can create for themselves, Tharpe can do this as demonstrated against weaker exhibition opponents, HCBS should have given him 3-5 of TT's minutes last night...speaking of which. . .TT will never play 40 minutes. . .How can HCBS decide when Tyshawn will fall asleep. . . it's such baloni how TT plays, like that behind the back twice (the one to Trob was still worthless and I snear at passes like that even at the rec center) and the other one that should have been a turnover but he recovered and passed to Teahan for the tre. TT is worthless, how can someone make the same mistakes over and over and over? He shots and drives better now but still makes the same poor, lazy passes and gets tre's splashed in his face/gets driven by/overall unaware defense/defensive lapses. . . how can this happen?

BCRavenJHawkfan 10 years, 6 months ago

It would also help for guys to be moving toward the pass instead of away from it.

And I would really like to know what Long Beach's coach was yelling about to Self at the end of the game.

Justin Carlson 10 years, 6 months ago

I rewatched that exchange this morning a couple of times! He was saying (reading lips) "That was the worst set of officials I have ever seen" camera panned away!

withey shot to the face ??? no call looked obviously intentional!

releford TO to foul in transition...then LBS shoved Travis...nothing called

withey elbow to the face of LBS player after clearing a board didnt go to the monitor.

self gets a warning because of a bogus call then a weird makeup call 20sec later!! Which lead to self's warning!

It was badly officiated game that was over shadowed by 22 turnovers!!

RockChalk26 10 years, 6 months ago

Ah yes, the Releford shove. I was wondering about that too. In the past I've seen players kicked out of games for similar acts.

KGphoto 10 years, 6 months ago

I agree. I watched it a few times too, and although I don't read lips, it didn't seem like he was yelling at Bill but yelling about something. The refs were terrible, so that makes perfect sense.

Joe Baker 10 years, 6 months ago

We better get used to it. The officials have an ax with KU after the twins. The twins did something to piss the entire ncaa officiating crew off. It all started two years ago when Mk got that tech from the ref. Ever since then, the officials watched the twins really closely. You then had the elbows in the UCLA and Cal games.

I don't know what happened but ever since then, some of the officials seem to have a problem with KU. It seems that a few take every opp to pick at KU.

The TOs in this game were all KU. I can't quite hold the refs responsible for that. However, the most glaring was in the dook game when the big dook kid bumped and blocked TT which led to one of his 20 TOs off his foot, was pretty bogus.

I really hate to say it, but KU will have to play the refs and the other team in most games this year. I don't think there is an official's conspiracy but it's hard to ignore at times.

tis4tim 10 years, 6 months ago

Yeah, a 6-2 record playing one of the toughest schedules in the country, without substantial depth, and the only losses coming to Kentucky and Duke, the latter of which we gave away and the former of which was eminently winnable. Things are abysmal.

Theonlythingthatexceedsyourbad 10 years, 6 months ago

Twins, Aldridge, Kahn, D. Jackson, Collins, Henry, Selby, T. Rob. . . yeah, really struggling. Idiot.

dogbones 10 years, 6 months ago

His name is Aldrich. How do people always get Aldridge out of it? It doesn't even sound the same!

You got Kaun wrong as well, but that's understandable.

Ian Brown 10 years, 6 months ago

HiHawk completely misquoted Dickie V. Dickey V simply said that this is the least amount of talent he's seen Bill Self work with at KU, but meant it with regards to our lack of talent on the bench--our lack of depth. He never said, "this is the worst KU team I've ever seen." HiHawk not only completely reworded Dickies words, but decided to place them under quotations for a little added dramatic effect.

Ian Brown 10 years, 6 months ago

Hahaha, you are so foolish that it's really quite amusing to try and understand and imagine your thought process and the frame of mind you must be in at all times. While it's quite amusing, I also must say that it's equally disturbing.

HiHawk, I think you're in need of some real PT. PT as in "Pine-Time".

KGphoto 10 years, 6 months ago

Totally amusing! What is going through his head? I read all of his posts, but since there really is no book on how to deal with angry farmers, I rarely respond to him and read from afar to avoid the wreckage.

KGphoto 10 years, 6 months ago

Oh wait! Maybe he's like a 7 year old prodigy. I would have some mad respect if hihawk is only 7. Keeping up with all those sports? It certainly would explain the Jackson Pollack grammar he splatters all over the board.

Good job little hihawk! You tell 'em. And, hey, be careful up there on that tractor. It's not a toy.

Ken Tomberlin 10 years, 6 months ago

really don't understand the Morningstar hate. He shot the ball well, played great D and moved the offense without turning the ball over. And he's playing pro ball right now so apparently he has a little talent. I would take him over anyone on our team right now except TRob.

Theonlythingthatexceedsyourbad 10 years, 6 months ago

Agreed. Question: Would you take Morningstar or Taylor into the game v Ohio state?
Answer. Morningstar.

manginodrh00lz 10 years, 6 months ago

Ernest T Bass! I was wondering when you would crawl out from your hole. Your wisdom speaks of a true hillbilly.

John Randall 10 years, 6 months ago

For your own good, just stuff a sock in it.

Hank Cross 10 years, 6 months ago

That makes a lot of sense. They pass just to pass to a player that isn't any more open than they are.

jayhawkjunior 10 years, 6 months ago

Agreed. Facing that 1-3-1 extended pass we see a guard throw a 30 foot skip pass to another player that isn't any more open when the passer isn't under any pressure. Dribble up the court. The defense is spacing to prevent passes but not to prevent dribbling. Go up the damn court! Quit stopping 1/3rd of the way and throwing a lob that I could intercept from my couch. You are a guard for one of the best basketball schools in the country. Dribble!

Yolanda Gay 10 years, 6 months ago

I think if TT hasn't gotten it by now, he's not going to get it. The TT we see is what we're stuck with the rest of the season. I'm not sure what's going on with EJ. At the beginning of the season Self had very high praises for EJ and said this would be his year. He had a great game in Hawaii; but for the most part, I'm not seeing why Self had high praises for EJ? I don't totally fault EJ. During his first 2 years, he didn't see the court much. We should have been developing him all along. NT didn't play due to coaches decision. If he doesn't start seeing some playing time, we're going to be in the same boat next year.

My surprise of the year is JW. He's missed some easy buckets and I think he has soft hands but when he's out there, he's playing within his talent (i.e. rebounding and block shots). Danny Manning is truely a great big-man's coach. It will be GREAT if T-Rob can hit those perimeter jumpers consistently. He will be unstoppable if he does!

southwindjay 10 years, 6 months ago

If your turnovers are correctable TT you better start correcting!

jrbill67 10 years, 6 months ago

Everyone needs a reset. This is not a typical Jayhawk team and the results will show it this year. Taylor's a senior and plays like a freshman; Johnson looks up to Taylor and he is modeling his game after Tyshawn's, a huge mistake. To make matters worse, there is no bench so the starters are dragging at the end and make mistakes they might not make in the beginning of the game. They've won a few games this year because of Self, the best coach in the Big 12, and they will win their share in the Big 12, but there are going to be some miserable performances. Lower your expectations, get a beer, and enjoy the chaos.

RockChalk26 10 years, 6 months ago

My beef with this years team. I'm not sure who is at fault for this but it has been driving me crazy.

After made baskets, we are slow at taking the ball out of bounds which allows our opponent to set up their half court defense. By not getting the ball up the floor in a timely manner, we have been settling for cross court passes which have turned into turnovers. And when we do get the ball across half court the shot clock is down to 25 seconds, leaving us less time to run our set plays.

Solution: 1) Get the freaking ball up the court more quickly (don't allow the opponent to get set) 2) Clear out, let the point guard break the press (you can't tell me EJ or TT can't beat their defenders off the dribble) 3) Change you press breaking play (back and forth passes down the floor are not effective)

I guess I'm getting tired of watching other teams bring the ball up the floor with such ease. We are #13 in the country and have difficulty getting the ball past half court. Something has to change.

On a positive note: It was fun watch T-rob scorch the net last night. The guy was on fire!

Lin Rahardja 10 years, 6 months ago

LBS gave full court pressure during the first 10 min of the second half, but they didn't really trap our ball handler (perhaps it's not really their intention). Instead, they did a good job filling up the passing lane where many of the TOs occured. Our guards were just too hesitant to attack the full court pressure defense. Perhaps we were just thinking too much not to turn the ball over instead of instinctively attacking the full court defense.

Give credits to LBS coaching, they keep changing their defense strategy, executed well, and it paid off, it slowed down our offense considerably in the second half. Credits to our guys gutted out by trading punches and hold them off for a win.

Tony Bandle 10 years, 6 months ago

From the glass half full perspective:

-we've lost only to the #1 and #5 teams in the country and could have won least one, -are ranked in the Top 15, -have a undermanned team that has been ill and injured,..need to get healthy -are still looking for a team identity -still aren't playing nearly to our potential -currently have the #12 recruiting class for 2102, plus Jamari and BenMac -have a winning record at 6-2 -play in Allen Fieldhouse -Jeff and Conner are turning out to be huge surprises -Kansas is certainly not dull -TRob is looking like an All-American -and we aren't Missouri Tiger fans

Remember Pearl Harbor and the sacrifices that were made the next four years after.

Alohahawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Believe me, everyone out here knows what today is. But thanks for the reminder to everyone not living in Hawaii.

If I remember my local statistical data correctly, the Arizona Memorial is the most visited tourist destination in Hawaii, by Americans and by the Japanese.

nuleafjhawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Oakville - that is NOT a glass half full perspective.

That is a cup runneth over perspective !! Good job sir. Well done.

Steve Yeakel 10 years, 6 months ago

Naadir Tharpe must be having some really big problems, because we have immediate major minutes available for a guard that can pass without turning the ball over, and play good defense. TT and EJ are both horrible right now. TT's game management coming down the home stretch was atrocious.

Theonlythingthatexceedsyourbad 10 years, 6 months ago

Atrocious is the mind of TT. Can't focus, get him on some o' dat ADD medicine! TT likes to stand up straight on the dribble so he can look cool bringing the ball up and then suddenly jolt past a defender. It's so hard to watch. I think that HCBS put a stop to all this Mick Jagger strutting around that TT does but if it happens again I'm gonna lose it. Worse yet is when anyone interviews TT and he has to open his mouth. Hey TT hears a little advice get your head in the game because you have lots of skills but it's hard to see when your head is so far up. . .

KEITHMILES05 10 years, 6 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

REHawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Lots of sad stuff...but some really fine delightful stuff. And another win!

tis4tim 10 years, 6 months ago

This is the most curiously abstract, yet perfectly succinct post I've ever read on this site. It made me laugh ... but it also made me think. Nicely done!

flyingfinn 10 years, 6 months ago

I said at the beginning of the season that TT had to pick up his play this year and so far it has been a dissappointment. The disturbing thing is that EJ and Taylor seem to hang together and EJ looks up to him and is unfortunately picking up on his bad habits on and off the court. Time to grow up guys or a big slap down is coming this weekend. On the positive we have played one of the most difficult pre-season schedules in the country and are 6-2 and have been in every game, Robinson's play is improving and despite comments above Withey is improving remember this is his first year of serious playing time unlike TT. Finally I am not worried about Missouri and comments about their smooth play are ridiculous. They are severely over rated at no. 10 because they have played no one including Cal which is over rated and Nova which is really down this year.

ancient_hawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Exactly. Mizzou's Non-Conc SOS is 303rd out of 345. Ours is 42nd.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 6 months ago

Shawful and Shawesome Moments from last night:

1) Shawesome-I was digging the gold "The Beach" jersey's by LBSU last night. I couldn't really decide at first if I liked the font or not, but I decided they were unique and clever and I liked them.

2) Shawful-The Halftime University of Kansas commercial..........I mean, I don't know where they got that woman to do the dialogue but it was terrible. I felt like I was standing in line getting ready for the instructions at the Space Mountain ride at Walt Disney World. Just felt cheap like a late night Paid Programming special.

3) Shawful- 22 Turnovers to 16 assists-No need to expand further.

4) Shawzam-Withey's almost Triple Double-Wow! I will say this in defense of Withey for those that think he's not taking the ball aggressively to the rack. Withey was getting the ball in bad spots last night even though he was open.

It's hard receiving a pass already under the basket and trying to go up with it when the defense is already swarming and moving in your direction.  It's hard going up in a stand still position when 2 defenders are flying at you with momentum and a running start.  It's definitely correctable because his teammates can give it to him in better spots.  Also, if Withey just moves up the pain a couple of feet that would help his positioning as well.  Well done J-Wit!

5) Shawesome-Zeus himself................T-Rex!

6) Shawesome-EJ's behind the back two step "And 1" for the lay-up! Suhhhhhhh Weeettttttt! EJ isn't all there, but nailing that 3 should definitely help in the confidence. It should because he has the best PG in Aaron Craft coming into AFH on Saturday.

7) Shawful-Tharpe's DNP

8) Shawful-Wesley's continued fouling on hedges at the top of the key.

9) Shawful-Defending the 3 and TO's is this team's achilles heel.

10) Shawful-Who is this announcer that played at UCLA? I find him extremely annoying.

11) Shawesome-I don't have to listen to the annoying announcer from UCLA this Saturday against OSU.

Alohahawk 10 years, 6 months ago

T-Rex? Now why hasn't someone come up with that nickname before? Or have I just missed it?

Nice post kushaw. Definitely "Shawsome."

Joe Baker 10 years, 6 months ago

It's been peppered here and there from post to post by some.

Joe Baker 10 years, 6 months ago

8- I still think the funniest post was about Wesley "rolling out of bed with two fouls."

I don't remember who posted this but it was funny as hell.

FreddyinLA 10 years, 6 months ago

Naadir not playing because of coaches decision is the first step in our normal progression of tightening the bench to a trusted few. We all know how that works on the weekend game of the only tourney that matters. Look for Wesley and Young to disappear from the rotation in conference play.

JW is showing he can play some ball after just a few games of getting quality minutes. This should have happened last year. I can only imagine how good we would have been last year having a guy capable of double digit blocks patrolling the paint.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 6 months ago

Wesley and Young will not both disappear from from the rotation. Withey and TRob need someone to give them a spell. I think both will continue to be part of the rotation, and the matchup will determine what kind of minutes each gets. There's no way Self will rely on just two big men (TRob and Withey) every game for 40 minutes each.

As far as Withey's playing time last year: You do remember that we had Marcus, 'Kieff and Trob, right? Of course Withey's not going to get a lot of minutes with those three ahead of him. (Self tends to use around 4 guards and 3 forwards/centers in his regular rotation.)

FreddyinLA 10 years, 6 months ago

Championship team had 4 big rotation, with the 4th being Cole who played a huge role in beating UNC in the Final 4.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 6 months ago

True, but if you remember, Cole played a pretty small part on that team for most of the year (I believe he played less than 10 minutes a game). I don't remember him playing much at all against Memphis in the Championship game.

It was mainly Arthur, DJack and Sasha in '08. In '09 it was Cole and the Morris twins. Last year it was the Morris twins and TRob. This year it's TRob, Withey and....? lol

distracted 10 years, 6 months ago

Lots of doom and gloom here, but we did come out with a win against a decent opponent.

Their record may not reflect it, but Long Beach State has proven themselves against some quality competition this season and they have the type of team that could potentially make some noise in the tourney later this season (they actually reminded me a bit of VCU with a pretty decent outside/inside combination and gritty attitude).

It was great to see Teahan step up. I was beginning to believe he was more of a liability than a positive. Given his slow feet at times, if he's not hitting shots, there really isn't much reason to have him out there. His hustle and headiness at the end of the game gave the Hawks an ever-so-slight bit of breathing room at the close of the game.

If T-Rob can find that stroke he displayed in the first half and it becomes the norm instead of an anomaly, he becomes virtually unguardable. As much as I like him burying jump shots, I'd still much rather see him down low taking care of the paint as he's done all season. Just hope he doesn't fall in love with the jump shot.

It was a bit of a roller coaster and the game film will definitely be a teaching tape, but it was a win.

I'm obviously pumped for OSU. Not guaranteeing a win, but I expect a much more buttoned up effort from the back court. Wish I could be at Allen for that one.

FarSideHawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Unrelated, but just saw a picture of Julius Randle on twitter with Jayhawk gear, says "Rock Chalk" in the caption too.!/J30_RANDLE/media/slideshow?

Don't know if he is a KU lean or not. Interestingly, he doesn't have an offer yet from UNC, Duke, or Kentucky.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 6 months ago

He will be at the Ohio State game on Saturday. Some think he is going to Duke, but who knows really.

Randle was at Legends of the Phog and now is coming to the Ohio State game. I can't help but think he can obviously see that Kansas is "Big Man U".

Alohahawk 10 years, 6 months ago

Doubt very much that Randle (6' 9") hasn't received an offer from Duke. Can't always go by the recruiting board's list of offers. They often run behind, and a recruit may not remember them all due to a high number of offers. According to the report on, his teammate, Matt Jones (Duke oral commit - 2013) is working Randle to join him at Duke. At this point in time, I'd guess that it is between KU and Duke for Randle's services. Of course, KU has already signed Josh Peters (2012 class), another of Randle's teammates.

In addition, KU is recruiting Walker, who is 6' 10" and plays pretty much the same position as Randle. I doubt KU would get both. Either one would be a great get. Both are ranked in the top five or so, and would most likely be OAD's.

Toby Wilson 10 years, 6 months ago

My take:

The first half we moved the ball well and created shots. The second half we didn't move the ball well, by hold it or dribbling while going nowhere. When you move the ball well, make good sharp passes, the defense is always trying to move to keep up creating openings. You hold the ball, or let it stick for to long, then the defense has time to move into passing lanes. Top that off with lazy passes and lazy ball handling you get the pathetic play of the second half.

I don't know what are practices are like, but something needs to change. When I was fighting for time on the court and was a 2nd squad guy I did whatever I could to get the coach to notice me. Are we practicing against guys that allow the starters to do what they want, and get away with lazy passes. I doubt that this is the case at KU. So if we are doing these things in practice, which I would assume we do, what kind of punishment is there for poor decisions during practice. If someone made these mistakes in practice, and played for me, they would get real tired of doing fingertip pushups or hitting the line to do some timed sprints. I don't claim to know all there is to know about hoops, but I know lazy play when I see it, and the best place to fix that is in practice. I am a firm believer in you play like you practice!!!

I love Jayhawk basketball and this kinda play is not Jayhawk basketball!!! I hope that coach can get the fundamentals drilled into this team before Big 12 play starts...

JayHawkFanToo 10 years, 6 months ago

A few observations: In defense of TT, a couple of his turnover were perfectly catch able passes that the receiving player was not ready or able to catch. Why is Releford passing on 3 point shots? I have noticed in the last few games that is passing on wide open 3s. Has he lost confidence or has the coaching staff limited his shots? It seems that most of the alley-oop lobs are being intercepted by the defense, this goes back several games...I miss Morningstar and Reed, they sure knew how to set up the alley-oop. The prophet (EJ) need to get his act together. According to HC Self, he has been burning the nets in practice (with 3s) but at game time, he cannot his the broad side of a barn. He has an obvious mental block that he need to overcome; we all know that he definitely has the physical tools JW, PLEASE do not put the ball on the floor. You are a true seven footer; if you keep the ball above your head no one can take it away from you without fouling. A seven footer putting the ball on the paint is a guaranteed turnover. Teahan will not always hit his first three, but that is not a reason to take him out.(UK game), just setup plays for him and he will eventually get it going; he is too good of a shooter to stay cold very long. Most pleasant surprises so far:Withey and Teahan; we knew TR was good so that is no surprise.

finn78 10 years, 6 months ago

If someone has already posted/answered this sorry. But I was wondering if anyone knew the last time Hawks were an Allen Fieldhouse underdog?

Gregor Southard 10 years, 6 months ago

I made the comment last week that KU would be better off with EJ at point and TT at the 2. Quite frankly, last night with EJ at point and Conner at the 2 they looked great. Not that I'm saying Conner should start, but it was the only strectch where KU looked great offensively so far this season.

RockChalk26 10 years, 6 months ago

Did anyone hear Coach Cal on Jim Rome today? The guy sure can pitch his school.

Steve Brown 10 years, 6 months ago

I heard part of it, very smooth. Give Cal credit he is really good at what he does.

It has been said, if your competitor is doing it, then stop. So Cal wants the OAD John Wall, Derrick Rose, T. Jones players, so let him have them. Freshman don't always win in March.

KU can make a very fine living off the players that want to stay in college boot camp for 2-3 years and then get drafted 12&13th.

Bate, PHOF or not?

JayHok 10 years, 6 months ago

Anybody notice the scoreboard during the minutes Withey was out?

TexasHawk44 10 years, 6 months ago

Ohio State is going to crush us if we play like we did last night.

And imagine Big 12 games: The Misery Tigers will score 120 points against us this year in Colombia if our guards continue have no value for the ball , especially if the Anti-Curly-Neal-Turns-The-Ball-Over-On-The-Way-To-The-Bathroom Tyshawn Taylor plays his typical reckless style. I think he is the worst starting PG to play a KU in a decade or more. Self must have some great blood pressure medicine or his head would explode coaching our backcourt...Ugh.. Congrats to Withey and T-Rob. Our front line played great! Too bad our backcourt couldn't follow suit...

Doug Fogleman 10 years, 6 months ago

Now we know why Reed and Morningstar played so much. They valued the ball and were pass first type of players.

But there is still alot of season left. I hope they move forward and not backwards.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 6 months ago


It's getting harder to argue that Brady shouldn't have started over EJ last season. It's obvious why Self played Brady so much: He was a great defender, he could hit open shots, and more than anything he made very few stupid turnovers. In contrast to EJ, when things weren't going well for Brady individually, he still did a lot of things that helped KU get the win. He didn't get down on himself and played through his mistakes. We have yet to see this sort of thing from EJ.

Jack Wilson 10 years, 6 months ago

See VCU before imparting too much Brady-love. And don't write off EJ too soon .. see Brady's horrible play the entire first half of last season, and improved play later.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 6 months ago

I don't judge Brady based off what he did in the VCU game...there's plenty of blame to go around for that one. I choose to look at his entire body of work at KU, and it is pretty impressive.

And I'm not writing off EJ...the sky is the limit for him. I'm just saying that it is pretty clear why Self played Brady more than EJ last season. Brady, plain and simple, was a better all-round basketball player than EJ last season.

theend 10 years, 6 months ago

TT has potential....and he is capable of being very good. But the reality is that as long as he is a starter KU will not be very good. He has been at KU 4 years. If he was going to improve.....he would have by now.

Unfortunately.....there really isn't much to be done about it. It is what it is. TT leaving after this year is one of the best things for this team. Sad to say that......but I think we all know that's true.

Joe Baker 10 years, 6 months ago

theend- I feel that way some times but then when I'm about ready to hang TT from the highest tree on Oread, he goes and totally redeems himself. I wouldn't go so far as to say that his leaving is "the best thing for this team."

It is what it is and the lynch mob needs to disperse and go home.

Enjoy watching TT improve this season, TT style.

theend 10 years, 6 months ago

I agree with you for the most part......but with TT......I feel like I'm still watching a Freshman. I could handle it if that was true....but he should be much better by now. But you're right....I'm probably too critical of him.

Theonlythingthatexceedsyourbad 10 years, 6 months ago

TT won't improve his mistakes, those will continue but he will make more shots. Unfortunately not making mistakes is almost always more important than making a few shots.

Robert Murphy 10 years, 6 months ago

An interesting way to look at the game, from the 16.18 mark Kansas lost this game by 4 points. Also from the time TT entered the game they lost by 4 points as he and his team mates couldn't hold a 12 point lead (16.18 mark) winning only by 8.

Joe Baker 10 years, 6 months ago

I remember when KU was up by four and TT hit a big trey to put them back up by seven too. You know, it's real easy to pick a kids faults, but lets give him some props when he deserves it.

Theonlythingthatexceedsyourbad 10 years, 6 months ago

His shot is much more in rhythm this year I will give TT that. It may not be ever so pretty but it is smoother. But for everything else. . .(first off I suspect his +/- was much worse than -4) he'll fall asleep at the wheel, you want him driving this truck?

HawkBBall 10 years, 6 months ago

Why did Tharpe not play?

Whatever happened to our patented in-bounds pass play under our basket?

Has a playbook been given to TT?

Kristen Downing 10 years, 6 months ago

Aaron Craft will definitely teach our guards a lesson and I love Thomas but, posing for the camera after a jam while the rest of your team gets back on defense....REALLY!!

jaybate 10 years, 6 months ago

I get it. His dad makes more money than you, right?

theend 10 years, 6 months ago

Stupid comments. really don't like Brady. What? Did he steal your girlfriend? Upset that he is successful and makes more money than you ever will.? And you BS about Seld is just that....BS. Hey may want to look at next year's recruits. And you will be eating your useless words about this year's team as well. I wonder what morons like you were saying after KU won the title in 2008......angry they didn't win by 30 points?

John Randall 10 years, 6 months ago

hihawk, if you need to borrow a pair of sweat socks, just ask.

I could also help you insert them into the @$$hole under your nose.

KansasComet 10 years, 6 months ago

It is still early in the season. So much panic? Oh my god, The Buckeyes are coming!! Let's recap: 4 starters from last year are gone. The returning starter, Tyshawn Taylor, was suspended by the coach for a few games last year, in addition to two exhibition games along with Elijah Johnson this season. Thomas Robinson went through a life time of heartache, in a 4 week period, last year. We had a decent recruiting class, and lost 3 of the top recruits coming in this season for whatever reason. Now, after all of this, we went to Madison Square Garden and gave Kentucky "The Business" in the beginning of the game, and actually looked pretty decent. We then go to Maui, and drove Coach K crazy. Has anyone ever seen Coach K as fired up about a game before? Now, here we are with a runner up finish in Maui and a lot of people are worried about Ohio State coming to town, I'm not. I say, bring them on, and this is our house. I see a Kansas team, that when forced to focus, is actually pretty good. I also see a Kansas team that has difficulty maintaining that focus. This I believe will come in time. We are improving week to week, and this tough schedule makes us realize that there is a long way to go. I actually prefer it this way for a little while, to experience being the hunter and not the hunted. No team is number one all of the time. We should appreciate the good times when we have decent teams, instead of acting like it is our birthright. It is a little bumpy right now, but please remember, this is not the team that Coach Self anticipated having this year. I think he is doing the best he can with what he has.

theend 10 years, 6 months ago

I agree. Look at moron "Hihawk's" comments. Pathetic.

HawkKlaw 10 years, 6 months ago

Basketball is all that matters at Kansas.

KSU basketball....ha! They play in the house that Roy built!

machinegun 10 years, 6 months ago

I seriously question the harsh criticism being directed at Tyshawn Taylor. Coach Self is a really smart guy and he has chosen TT to lead this team to victory. He knows TT is the only one who can get his own shot. But Coach Self expects TT to distribute the ball and help others get their shots. Sounds simple enough.

Ian Brown 10 years, 6 months ago

Dude... Take your medicine, jayhawkinnbre. Everything will be fine. Just stay calm

It seems quite obvious that you've incurred some sort of serious, and undeniably painful growth in, up, or around your @ss from too much PT--PT as in Pine Time (and constipation) and TP as in Toilet Paper.. But have no fear, I've got just the solution for you... Don't wait another minute to call (913) 451-0600, for Midwest Hemorrhoid Treatment Center can help alleviate this affliction which is obviously causing you emotional distress in addition to physical discomfort.

Don't Suffer in Silence.

Gary Wilson 10 years, 6 months ago

I love HCBS, and he's done great things for this university and basketball program, but the albatros around his neck will always be his insistance of starting, playing and sticking up for a player like TT. We will have a decent season, and maybe even win the Big XII again this year, but this team will NEVER win a meaningful game with TT playing the point. The tourney is a foregone conclusion. Possibly a first round out.

WilburNether 10 years, 6 months ago

You're right. Another recent example is that Self put far too many eggs in the Sherron Collins basket, and when Collins once again allowed himself to be taken out of the team game and thought it was Collins vs. Northern Iowa, we all saw the result. That team had far too much talent to warrant placing so much focus on one guy. Taylor is now a senior, and has yet to live up to his potential. Considering that he's a four-year starter, I very much doubt that he ever will.

yates33333 10 years, 6 months ago

I really do wonder how many individuals posting here are KU fans and how many are fans of other teams hoping to demoralize KU's fan base and perhaps players who might read these remarks.

All turn overs are not equal. Granted KU has too many with what is often sloppy passing, but some are due to the rough play that has been a hallmark of college basketball since the 1970s. Several last night resulted from pushes, grabs, shoves, and fairly obvious fouls where balls were taken away by opposing players. Although Withey and TRob turned the ball over a few times they played superb games, as did Teahan. Taylor did look out of sorts some of the time. Releford needs to improve his shooting. I don't know how, but he needs to. And EJ needs to play up to what seemed to be his potential last year. He hasn't had too many good games thus far. In general, KU is doing much better than most of us expected when we viewed the roster at the season's outset. I agree with those who say KU will play much better later as a team. But so will some of the other teams. Let's hope we develop faster and better.

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