Tuesday, February 16, 2010


KU overcomes Collins’ struggles


Audio clips

2010 KU-Texas A&M

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Will KU go a perfect 16-0 in conference play?

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3050 total votes.

Kansas holds off Aggies

The Jayhawks overcame Texas A&M in the final minutes Monday, Feb. 15, 2010 at Reed Arena in College Station, Texas.

— The second half was about to start when Bob Knight, a member of the media now working games as a color commentator for ESPN, said he wouldn’t start Sherron Collins to open the half because he had been a negative for Kansas, especially offensively, in the first half.

KU coach Bill Self started Collins, of course, but just knowing the winningest college men’s basketball coach said that of a player who stands a chance to become the winningest college basketball player of all-time reveals just how rough a night Collins had in every way except one.

His Jayhawks won, 59-54, against a Texas A&M; team that hit the boards hard and shot harder. The victory kept Kansas (25-1 overall, 11-0 Big 12) alive for a shot at what would be a shocker of an undefeated Big 12 season.

It also showed that unlike some teams, it can’t be said of Kansas that as any one player goes, so goes the team. The nation’s No. 1 team has too much depth and versatility to say that.

As with any team, Kansas looks its best when the guy who takes the most shots catches fire. Yet, in the past eight games, Collins has made just 10 of 42 three-point shots, or 24 percent.

“Hasn’t shot it a lick,” Self said of his senior leader.

That could mean one of two things, one good, the other not. It could mean Collins either is getting his shooting slump out of his system without it keeping the team from winning, and he’ll recover his sweet stroke in time for March, or it could mean something is causing the slump. Could it be something physical? Is Collins hurt?

“No,” said Collins, who slammed his shoulder taking a hard fall. “I’m all right.”

His coach didn’t offer any theories as to why Collins has been misfiring from long range of late.

“I just think he’s missing shots,” Self said. “I’m not a big believer in thinking there’s something going on. A lot of times basketball is a game of so much human element. Why does a golfer hit it straight one day and blow it out to the right the next? Sometimes, it just happens, but I still think he’s as good as any guard around.”

Why does Brady Morningstar make 12 of his first 14 free throws and miss his next four?

Even with his shot on temporary leave, Collins has a contagious confidence to him. He makes sure his team stays aggressive, especially at the end of close games.

He knew it wasn’t his night, so he didn’t shoot as much. He finished with seven points, just one assist and five turnovers, including a ball he dribbled away in the final minutes. All four of his three-point shots missed on a night Kansas made just one of 10 three-pointers.

In the past two games, KU has made eight of 37 threes, just 22 percent. Sometimes this teams wins pretty games, other times ugly ones. For now, the important thing is to keep winning because Kentucky, the nation’s No. 2 team, is doing so.

Kentucky poses the biggest threat to Kansas landing the No. 1 seed in the St. Louis regional. If KU can stay ahead of Kentucky in the eyes of the seeding committee, it will get to stay close to home, rather than be sent, say, to Houston.

Collins doesn’t need to shoot well for the team to win, but its chances of winning it all certainly will improve when his long-distance shooting does.


Chris Shaw 12 years, 9 months ago

“I just think he’s missing shots,” Self said. “I’m not a big believer in thinking there’s something going on. A lot of times basketball is a game of so much human element. Why does a golfer hit it straight one day and blow it out to the right the next? Sometimes, it just happens, but I still think he’s as good as any guard around.”

Perfectly said.

KULA 12 years, 9 months ago

He's tired, Coach. Get the kid some rest. 36 min/game and you wonder why his 3ptr isn't falling? DUH!

Timmay97 12 years, 9 months ago

Amazingly, I think hitting our free throws won this game for us.

fansincewilt 12 years, 9 months ago

Self is not going to bench his leader. This team's success is tied to Collins. Self is right to make Collins the leader on the floor.

KCinNC 12 years, 9 months ago

Bob Knight is an idiot. It's extremely clear that he just doesn't like Sherron. Looks like he's on death's door too.

Martin Rosenblum 12 years, 9 months ago


Sherron is playing us all. He is trying to force the rotation in order to develop Brady, Tyrel and Tyshawn so we will be even more balanced in post conference play. By turning it on and off, he's allowing himself to control, and possibly work with HCBS to also position the guard group for next year. Let's not say that he's sandbagging. That would suggest a purposeful manipulation of a game. But, by not being the point hog throughout the game, he's putting himself in a role as a relief pitcher, of sorts. I've looked at this as being a glory-grabber in the past. But, maybe I've been too critical. If he is sensing that a game is too close in the final two minutes, he seems to come to life and show a burst of interest and effectiveness. His heroics may be nothing short of scripted between himself and Bill. Last night, it wasn't truly necessary with the 5 point lead and MC going to the line. If Morris missed one or two of his FTs, Collins would have taken over and duplicated his "closer" role to clench the W.

He must be even more valuable than we had been used to giving him credit for all the while being actually unselfish.

KCinNC 12 years, 9 months ago

I haven't been as proud of any Jayhawk since Manning as I am of Sherron Collins. Hinrich and Collison were close. Sherron is a great player and a great individual. Competitive, Classy and a Winner. We are blessed to have him at KU for 4 years. I'm just enjoying the rest of the ride with Sherron Collins in a Jayhawk jersey. Rock Chalk!

Steve Brown 12 years, 9 months ago

KCnNC well said.

coach get the kid some serious rest....until then have him pass the ball instead of the drive that ends up with his body falling at the line...his goal should be to lead in assists, not drive into 3-4 guys in the lane.

we win that tough elite eight game with his court savy and his assists not with his drive & shot..

docileboy 12 years, 9 months ago

Bob Knight needs to retire...again. He never could beat Kansas when he was coaching, so he hates them now. Did you hear him dodge the question of what makes Bill Self a good coach?

slowplay 12 years, 9 months ago

"Bob Knight needs to retire...again. He never could beat Kansas when he was coaching, so he hates them now."... I'm not a Knight fan but this statement is ridiculous. Knight thinks Aldrich is the best "big" in the country. He has also said Kansas is the best team in the country. He's given high praise to Collins, Morningstar and Marcus M. He thinks X is pro-bound but should wait another year. If anything, if I was a non-KU fan I would be pissed because he babbles on so much about KU. I can live with Knight over another 1/2 dozen or so announcers (Vitale, Musburger, etc.) who can't string together 2 intelligent sentences.

FairgroveJayhawk 12 years, 9 months ago

Didn't Sherron have a slump this time last year and come out of it for the tournaments? I can't remember exactly.

Memhawk - interesting theory but I think Sherron would prefer to beat the snot out of everyone he plays against. I can see Self showing interest in making Reed more game ready for March, Brady is already there, Taylor,.... well Taylor is Taylor. So far we get about half a game out of him regardless of playing time and it seems to be working for the team (25-1).

"It also showed that unlike some teams, it can’t be said of Kansas that as any one player goes, so goes the team. The nation’s No. 1 team has too much depth and versatility to say that."

Sounds like the 2008 National Champions!

nocaljayhawk 12 years, 9 months ago

Knight annoys me...for every trenchant insight he'll offer, he'll come back with brainless dreck like he did last night about a made FT making it a four-point lead, which would make it, Knight assures us, a two-possession game. Brilliant! It's like these former coaches are sat behind a TV microphone and they lose their ability to distinguish what they need to say from what they simply think.

Sally Presson 12 years, 9 months ago

Very well said KC in NC. Sherron is a great leader and yes, last night wasn't his night, but our other guys stepped up to the plate and got a very difficult job done!!! Way to go HAWKS!!! I too can live with Knight, but Vitale and Musburger---NOT!!! We had to turn off the sound when Musburger was going on and on, flapping his lips saying nothing. they need to put Knight with Vitale's other half and we'd have some good announcers. Not someone who loves to hear their voice.

Great game, it about gave me a heart attack, and it was after midnight before I wound down, but what a game!!

I don't know if the white out affects the team like it looks, but dang, shooting those free throws with all that white in the background would be very distracting. Good job guys, you kept focused throughout the game!! We love this team!!! And are so thankful for Coach Self and his staff!! None better in the world!

VegasJhawk09 12 years, 9 months ago

Seriously you guys, I am going to miss seeing Sherron out there. Even more than I miss seeing Rush and Chalmers and Russ Robb.

doubled96 12 years, 9 months ago

I'll take Knight over any other announcer. Period. Yes, he makes some crazy statements and sometimes states the obvious, but unlike any other commentator, I actually learn something about basketball when I watch a game he announces. Probably the top coach ever when it comes to the fundamentals of basketball and also how to play smart basketball. Last thing I learned from a Dick V game was what high school each kid went to and what famous NBA alum is from said high school. The fact that Knight has one of my favorite quotes ever doesn't hurt either. "If I had the choice of watching the NBA on channel 5 and frogs humping on channel 7, I would watch the frogs humping even if the channel was fuzzy."

Ron Prichard 12 years, 9 months ago

I totally agree, slowplay. Knight isn't my favorite, but he's much better than most of the other options. Personally, I always liked Fraschilla, but I think that was mainly because he clearly loved KU. I always wondered how fans for our opponents felt each time he went on and on about how great KU was. Probably about like some of the people on here who hate Knight because he called out Sherron last night. At least we don't have to listen to Vitale. That is almost unbearable anymore.

Sherron is one of my all-time favorite KU players, but last night he just didn't have it. Whether he is tired, was pressing, or just had an off game, I don't know. But Knight's comments weren't too far off. Last night was the first time all year I have been more nervous with Sherron handling the ball than our other guards. I have no doubt he will come back and play better Saturday and the rest of the season, but last night just was not Sherron's night.

Steve Gantz 12 years, 9 months ago

I'm also a big Wisconsin fan and in a road game at Northwestern Trevon Hughes was having a night like Collins. Hughes is kind of a poor man's Collins playing a similar role. Hughes hit a shot and bam, he scored like the next 15 points, game over. For that reason it's tough to take him out of the game. We've all seen and can appreciate what SC can do on the court.

Woody Cragg 12 years, 9 months ago

I think Knight speaks that way of Cole because his fundamentals are rock solid. But he did say once that he can't watch him shoot free throws. Cole gets his huge feet in front of the defensive guy and the man goes absolutely nowhere. And when he comes down with a rebound the ball is rarely anywhere but over the top of his head. Then, BAM, the outlet pass. And it's most always to a ball handler headed up the floor. Knight is one of those guys who preach (and beat) fundamentals into a guy and is more of a defensive coach than offense. Also it's really hard to drive past a guy when his feet are squared straight in front of you. Aldrich has a monstrous spread & when you go staight at him it's tough to get by. A slick ball handler gets the defensive guy with one foot slightly forward and once he is past the front foot, he's gone. Defense either has to switch or foul to stop him (reach). Cole switches well also, although I get ticked sometimes when he gets a reaching foul clear out at the top of the key. With a quick release shooter, he'll alter alot of shots switching on those picks out high. We've got Anderson coming up at Stillwater too. I' sure you remember the guy from Cornell that torched them. But the Twins are playing alot better fundamentally this year as well. When guys do these things really, really well, us old school guys take notice. There sure are better scoring bigs, but very few guys can get to the rack on him. His footwork is outstanding. He pinned Davis on the backboard late in the game going to the hole. That was an old Bill Russell type block, where he grabbed the ball & shot an outlet pass immediately. Pretty damn good stuff for most of us. Can't think of anyone else I'd trade him for, at least not at this level.

Kye Clark 12 years, 9 months ago

It's time to tell it like it is, and that's if this team wants to cut down the nets in March we have to get better play from Sherron on a more consistent basis. I'm not simply talking about this game either. In conference play he is shooting a horrible 36.7% from the field and 33.3% from 3. He has 46 assists and 26 turnovers, not even a 2-1 ratio. Some people are trashing Bob Knight for being critical of Sherron, but his play was atrocious last night. Two airballs? His turnovers were so incredibly foolish, it made me think if that was Tyshawn, all of Jayhawk nation would have been collectively yelling at their TV screens for Bill to get him out of there. Understandably Sherron gets the benefit of the doubt and does not easily draw our ire because of past accomplishments. In my estimation we have played 7 "tough" games, games where the outcome was still undecided in the final minutes. Memphis, Cornell, Tennessee, Baylor, Kansas St., Colorado, and now A&M. Sherron has played well in 4 of those games, but against Tennessee, Colorado, & A&M he has played relatively poor. I love Sherron. Nobody plays harder, he is a great leader & closer, and he might be the best point guard we've ever had, but come tourney time we're going to need him to put together a complete game, not just picking his spots and running an iso play at the end of close games.

RockChalk26 12 years, 9 months ago

I can't help but think, "What would Elijah have done?" I agree, Collins is our fearless leader and should be on the court but you have to think that playing 35 + mins/game is taking a toll on his body. He looked sluggish and battered last night to the point where I felt he should have been benched. This would have been a great test to see how Elijah would have handled an intense game. I am not say that he should have finished the game for Collins, but he deserved minutes, especially with Collins making poor decisions on the court.

On a side note, I feel very strongly in Elijah's ability to contribute on the court. They need to give him time to prove it before the "Big Dance."


mandomax 12 years, 9 months ago

Memhawk -

Solid theory, but I have to disagree. Sherron is interested in the Jayhawks winning this season and for many to come, yes, but he is also interested in raising his stock in the NBA draft. Having a night like last night (1 to 5 assist to TO ratio and 7 points) certainly doesn't have scouts salivating. To say that he purposefully plays below his level to get other kids chances is absurd. He needs to be at the top of his game every night to get paid next year, and clearly last night he wasn't.

LPH_hawkfan 12 years, 9 months ago

So did Keegan mean in the second paragrah that Sheron could become the winningest player in all of college basketball or just all of KU basketball? Dont get me wrong, becoming the winningest player at KU all-time is AWESOME and I hope that Sheron can achieve this, but to become the winningest player in all of NCAA history would be even MORE AWESOME. I guess I should do research unless one of you know. It's been really amazing to see Sheron grow as a player over the last 3.5 years. When we would would watch games in the years past, my wife would get so frustrated and ask me why Sheron would be a "ball-hog" and do some of the things he did. I used to tell her to have patience and Sheron will come around as will the players around him. Last year we didnt have much offense except for Sheron. This year though, I have witnessed how much skill, maturity, and leadership Sheron possesses. I read somewhere once where Coach Self said that Sheron sees the game in slow-motion, and now I believe that to be true. Really gonna miss this young man. Rock Chalk

phoginnebr 12 years, 9 months ago

I like Bob Knight but, I don't like him as a game color man. I know he knows his basketball tactics and is as knowledgeable about the game as anyone. If I wanted to learn basics and tactics Bob would be one of a few coaches I would contact. The problem that I don't like about Bob, is Bob. He doesn't like to give credit to other great coaches because he sees himself as king. Which is ok too think as himself as king but, there are other kings as good as himself. Bob come down off your height horse just a little, and join a level of great coaches. I hope Kansas ST beats the HELL out of the corncobs.

Matt Bowers 12 years, 9 months ago

I love Bob Knight as a color man. It is more interesting listening to him than Dickie V. Plus, you can always count on Knight to knock Caliparri. Don't retire Bob, your old school approach to everything is welcome with me.

Rock Chalk

docileboy 12 years, 9 months ago

Maybe I could be a "color man"; shoot the bucket, face the bucket, count the bucket, wave the bucket off, bucket, bucket ,bucket.

Timmay97 12 years, 9 months ago

The best college basketball announcer out there right now is Jay Bilas.....HANDS DOWN!

kennethst 12 years, 9 months ago

I'm not worried a bit about Collins. He is great....even if his shot is "off". He will be fine.

ChicagoJHawk 12 years, 9 months ago

Bobby Knight does not hate KU, Sherron, Cole or Bill Self. Calm down people! Watch this video & then tell me he hates KU:

And another thing, how many games has Sherron single handedly carried this team through?? If he has an off game or 2 I'm okay with it. I saw a comment or 2 about how we need him to step up & thought that's a little ridiculous, Sherron has nothing to prove, he's stepped on when it's counted & will continue to do so.

That being said, it is great to see that our team can step up, play well, & come through with the W on a night Sherron isn't playing well, or Sherron & Cole (against Texas). Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

milehighhawk 12 years, 9 months ago

Memhawk - I don't think Sherron is missing shots on purpose.

Jacobpaul81 12 years, 9 months ago

A.) Bob Knight is the best color man ESPN has got. He's the only one who actually watches the basketball game.

B.) Kansas will win if Marcus, Cole and Xavier get their points. Higher percentage shots + easier baskets = WINS. Get the big men the basketball and let them carry you. Big Men win titles. It's the little men's job to suck the defense off them and feed the post. This is why the 2008 Jayhawks won a national championship. Spread the court, move the ball, open up the bigs and let them score. 3 pointers do not win NCAA championships.

C.) You guys are going to hate me for posting this, but I want people to actually see the numbers. It's frightening how delusional you guys can get without facts in front of you. Let's compare Collins' 2010 numbers with the 2008 boys:

1.) Since starting BIG XII play, Collins is shooting 36% from the field. In 2008, Robinson shot 42%, Rush 43% and Chalmers shot 51%! Collins year long percentage? 42%.

2.) 3 Pt percentage is even more revealing: Collins is shooting 33% in Big XII play. In 2008, Chalmers shot 46%, Rush shot 41% and Robinson 31%. Collins' year long total? 36%.

3.) 3 pt shots taken: This season, Collins has taken 137 in 26 games. In 2008 (38 games), Rush took 191, Chalmers 156 and Robinson 110.

4.) Total shots taken: In 38 games, Rush took 414, Chalmers 318, Robinson 198. In 26 games, Collins has thrown up 309. That's 11 shots per game from Collins in comparison to 10.8 from Rush, 8.3 from Chalmers, and 5.2 from Robinson.

5.) Steals: Mario averaged 2.5, Robinson 2 , Rush .8. Sherron averages 1.2

6.) Rebounds: Rush 5.1, Mario 3.1 and Robinson 2.8. Collins is averaging 2.1

7.) Assist to Turnover Ratio: Robinson 2 - 1, Chalmers 2.3 - 1, Rush 1.2 - 1, Collins 1.9 - 1

bayareajhawk 12 years, 9 months ago

I can't believe all the negative comments about Bob Knight. I love him as a color guy. He has forgotten more about basketball than we'll ever know and he always calls it like he sees it. I honestly feel privileged to listen to what he thinks of the game I'm watching. The man is a legend. Ever notice how he can break down an entire play (guards and post) as soon as it happens? Most color guys can really break plays down after watching a replay. Bob can do it as soon as the ball goes in the "bucket."

Woody Cragg 12 years, 9 months ago

Amen, Knight is good Roosevelt, DAMN GOOD! RCJH

KCinNC 12 years, 9 months ago

Maxhawk: you are a fool. Wayne is a great person and a great Jayhawk. I love him too. So much so that I don't want to argue about this. I happen to be more proud of Sherron Collins as a Jayhawk than anyone since Manning. If you think differently, I guess you're welcome to let us all know. I hope not to hear from you again though.

KCinNC 12 years, 9 months ago

Are you people defending Bob Knight listening to the same games that I am? He may have forgotten more about basketball than I know, but he is an idiot now. He should have retired years before he did. He was a Jacka** when he coached and he is one now.

jaybate 12 years, 9 months ago

"Tuesday After an Immaculate Win in College Station:"

} The game was ugly, but the win was immaculate--You've heard of the immaculate conception? Joseph is minding his own business, coming back from the sheep and, boom, Mary's prego, every sin is forgiven, and a hundred years later the emperor of Rome's a Christian. Or the immaculate reception? Franco Harris is running along doing what full backs do in divisional play off games and, boom, he is impossibly in the right place at the right time, when Oakland's Jack Tatum knocks the ball loose from Pittsburg's Frenchy Fuqua, and the ball falls in Franco's hands, and he scores a touch down and the Steelers win the game. Well, last night KU had an immaculate win. I'm not saying god, or Pete Rozelle, reached down and willed anything in College Station, but I am saying KU was out playing relentless defense, as a Self Defense team typically does, and missing nearly everything it shot beyond point blank range, as a s Self team rarely does, and, boom, a team that can easily miss one half of two-shot FTs down the stretch this season, suddenly sinks every one and leaves TAM coach Mark Turgeon like Jonah ingested, saying, "Hey, what is all this whale blubber? I thought we had them."

} Sherron's shooting slump continues--Since its gone on for eight or so games by Self's estimate, it probably started as a small slump and became an extended slump, when Self chose to play Sherronatron so many minutes the last six games. Self is trying to rest Sherron on the floor by moving him to the wing and letting him guard second, or third option perimeter players, but its barely keeping Sherron going. Sherron's legs appear nearly gone from playing 33-41 minutes per game the last six games. Shooting slumps can be caused by many things, but dead legs almost always cause bad long range shooting, weak late game springs, and deteriorating defensive sliding. Sherron couldn't even jump much of the second half. Sherron's defensive sliding is way off the last two games. And as Self has said, Sherron has not shot a lick in 8 games. Self has been resting everyone but Sherron the last four games. Self is probably playing Sherron so much to try to clinch the conference ASAP and because Self is having to rest his other anchor, Cole, so much, because of Cole's apparently still limited cardio-vascular condition. It also implies Self doubts Tyshawn's ability to hold the team together without Sherron at least on the floor. Once clinched, Self probably will rest Sherron a few games before the conference tourney and Sherron's shooting will snap back.

jaybate 12 years, 9 months ago

} Who deserves Sherron's rest minutes after clinching--We may learn some about who Self really thinks could play PG were Sherron to become injured, and also something about who may get a significant piece of the PT at the point next season, regardless of what new PG the cat drags in, when Self finally rests Sherron. Though Tyshawn gets the bulk of the bring-it-up the court work, when Sherron is on the wing, Self seems to be subtlely gravitating as the season wears on to Tyrel Reed albeit in very tiny bites. The same thing happened last season. Tyrel even got significant minutes in the second half trying to guard Sloan, who was IMHO just too quick and springy for Tyrel, but, on the other hand, Sloan didn't hurt us when Tyrel was laboring against him.Tyrel doesn't look pretty doing much of anything, but he seems always barely to get the job done. Clearly Self didn't want to play Tyrel a ton of minutes against a very athletic TAM, but when it came down to situations where the criterion was not impact, but survival, not impact, but actually getting it done, Tyrel got 13 minutes and, though he often looked to be barely hanging, he got the job done without mistakes, and with a trey.

} Turg finds weakness in Cole's game--Turg had his players stripping Cole right after offensive and defensive rebounds. It really fouled Cole up the mechanics of Cole's put-backs and his outlets. Cole will see this again for the rest of the season.

} Withey gets look and quick hook--Jeff wasn't ready for the speed and intensity and complexity of really mobile bigs moving and screening and jumping last night.

} Kieff continues productive rebounding, finds FT touch--despite his foul troubles, still largely unsung Kieff grabbed 6 reebs in only 17 minutes,.which extrapolates to an easy double digit rebounder as a 30 plus minute man. We are seeing rising glassvac productivity; this is great news for KU for the rest of this season and especially for next. Next step is to get him more active on the offensive glass.

jaybate 12 years, 9 months ago

} We don't need more points, we need less time--KU has shown an worrisome tendency late in games to shoot, rather than pull up and run the clock. Last night with slightly less than a minute left, if I recall correctly, With about a minute, Xavier took a pass in transition on our end of the court and kept going to the hoop for two, when the smart play was to pull back and run the clock down. As an old coach of mine once said, we don't need more points, boys, we need less time. This assured TAM at least one extra, unhurried possession. TAM by then was shooting too poorly to capitalize on the error, but against a good shooting team, this tendency to give an opponent an extra 20 seconds on the clock to work with, if not corrected by Self, is going to lose KU a game sooner, or later, this season. It has happened a couple times now in recent games. It is an old saw, but with a 3 point lead and with even 2-3 minutes to go, you are playing the clock, not the opponent, especially in defensive grinders like the TAM game.

} Xavier's Increasingly Acute Need for Hudian Bounce Therapy--Evidence continues to accumulate that X can't jump like Darrell Griffith. Yes, I know, it seems incredible that a young man with an NBA body can't hop, but time and time again he goes to the rim and gets stuffed, gets the ball no where near the rim, has an experience comparable to what Tyrel Reed might have were he green lighted to go in and "get to the rim." This is not a handedness problem. This is a bounce problem. It has been manifesting all season long, whenever the opposing team has some bigs in the paint and a decent sized wing with some spring. I'm not talking about Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan, or Ron Artest on the wing. I am talking guys like TAM put on him in College Station. And I am talking about even lesser wings than that over the course of the season. Calling Dr. Andrea, Dr. Hudy, Dr. Andrea, you are wanted in the weight room immediately for an emergency quad and calve strengthening procedure for Mr. Henry. X needs to go in for the full service procedure, not just the $79.95 job. He needs the one Marcus and Kieff got last off season; the one that added 4 inches of vertical and an ear for Dance, Dance, Revolution. Xavier with hops would be an unstoppable force on the floor. Please make it happen, Andrea. Please let it happen, Carl.

FairgroveJayhawk 12 years, 9 months ago

Jacobpaul81, I don't hate you for posting that. It shows the differences between the two teams and provides a basis for comparison. I don't believe anyone is saying this years team is just the same as 2008. Different weapons, different players... same results: 24-1, so far. The main similarity is a variety of weapons and the fact one player doesn't make or break this team. Hopefully in the near future we'll have two sets of data to compare KU's national championship teams from the Self era.

Great numbers.

ShawHawk 12 years, 9 months ago


If memory serves, Sherron becoming the all-time winniest player in NCAA history depends on what happens with the Memphis appeal. If the ruling is upheld and the Memphis class of 2008 has to vacate the 39 wins from that season, Sherron has a good shot. If it is overturned and they they don't, I believe we'd have to go 39-1 for Sherron to tie them. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Woody Cragg 12 years, 9 months ago

Knight was areal jackass at times, but most successful coaches are from time to time. I bet coach K, Self, Boheim, pretty much all of them have been cussed more than once, but the bigger picture is discipline and as most married men know, it's their way or the highway. Musberger is not as quick as he used to be either, but Knight is allowed to pick his games and his partner. He doesn't get along well with others. Ha! BK does alright considering only the last few years he's had to be politically correct for TV. There are guys I like better, but I'm just glad I didn't have to listen to him in the gym. Vitale is awful.. We could do alot worse than BK.

okiedave 12 years, 9 months ago

What makes Coach Self such a great coach? Answer: He coaches for K.U. K.U. has not had a bad coach -- Phog Allen, Dick Harp, Ted Owens, Larry Brown, Roy Williams, Bill Self. All very good coaches, highly successful and highly respected. Bill Self is a great coach because he recruits great players who come to Kansas because of our great history and tradition for basketball and tradition of excellence. If Bill Self were coaching at Northern Iowa or Northwestern, he would be considered a very good coach like most Division I coaches, but not a great coach because they would never be on the radar as a national champion contender. He would be limited by the players he was able to recruit. Self understands that. That is a factor in leaving Oral Roberts, Tulsa, Illinois and then not taking the Okie State job. Self knew that at Okie State he would more often than not be beat almost every year by the coach that was at K.U. and rarely be in contention for a conference championship with any regularity. Henry Iba and Eddie Sutton were all great coaches, but they were always subservient to K.U. because KU always has the better players.

These are the same reasons that Stoops will never leave Oklahoma for another college football position. O.U. insures continued success in football almost every year because of the players who they are able to recuit by their football tradition.

With that said, Perkins picked the best of the very good coaches in Bill Self. Makes it just that much sweeter for Kansas.

jaybate 12 years, 9 months ago


Thanks for the quantation about Sherron vs. '08 NC team.

However, I don't come to the same conclusions about Sherron being so wanting in comparison.

The crucial point your data set makes clear is that Sherron is not playing with Brandon Rush, Mario Chalmers and RR this year. Were he to have such players on this year's club, it is doubtful that he would have to take so many shots, make so many big plays, play so many minutes, and see his stats suffer from doing so in comparison accordingly.

Self wanted to taper Sherron way back this season, but once the cupcake season was over, and one or two noncupcakes had been encountered, it became painfully obvious that KU really lacked any "go-get-basket-guys" sufficient to allow Sherron to cut back his shooting load all that much. Cole just has not been able to "go get" baskets in close games most of the season. Xavier, who was supposed to be able to do so, has proven to have great difficulty even getting to the rim, much less getting it to go down, while there. Tyshawn can only in limited cases "go get" a basket. Brady and Tyrel. Not. Marcus increasingly is the guy KU has to turn to, if Sherron is off and Cole is playing someone with mobility and height similar to his. But as good as Marcus has become, he is still no match for Brandon Rush in trey shooting and alley oops, and he still is no match for Mario Chalmers in the "go get" a basket sweepstakes at crunch time. So, Sherron has to go get the baskets when they have to be gone for and gotten. :-)

Another thing people often overlook, is that that great '08 team had Mario Chalmers and Sherron Collins on the floor when it was time to go and get a basket. That was such a great advantage for KU; it meant teams never really could be sure which guy Self would turn to.

If you are trying to say that the '08 team was better than this year's team, so far, I would have to agree, though with the caveat that this year's team could improve enormously once Sherron starts shooting 40-50 percent from three again down the stretch--a rate that will bring him back to his career average of 39-40 percent for the season. When Sherron shoots 40-50% from three, this year's team is virtually unstoppable, and would be even against the '08 team. When he is not clicking from trey, this '10 team would be badly beaten by the '08 team. This year's team is very fortunate that Sherron has slumped when he has. Had he done this in the Madness, it would have almost no chance of winning. But statistically speaking, there is a very high probability that Sherron will grow devastatingly effective from three while March is coming in like a lion and going out like a lamb.

jaybate 12 years, 9 months ago

But if you are trying argue that Sherron is just not nearly as good as any of the players on the '08 team, I have to respectfully disagree, if for no other reason than that he was among the best players on that great team even then, despite playing with a bum knee.

Next, it is always problematic and dubious QA to compare data sets of different seasons in which one data set covers the entire season and the other data set covers only two thirds of it, especially in the case of 3pt shooting. Most good trey shooters have significant slumps during the course of a season. Sherron's has come the last 8 games, after he had a hot, hot, hot beginning. For gosh sakes, even with the current 8 game slump, he's at 36% over the season, which is only 2-3 percentage points under his last season's average. Unless Sherron is injured and not saying so, which is always a possibility with him, we have sound reason to expect that he will get back to 38-40 percent for the season. For what its worth, Sherron has never shot treys with as much accuracy as Brandon did, or with the same accuracy Mario Chalmers attained his last season, when he significantly exceeded his career average at KU. I can't prove it with numbers, but I have always reasoned that other things equal, a PG ought to shoot 1-2 percentage points less from 3pt land than he would, if he were to focus on shooting at the shooting guard position. There is some benefit to specialization.

The players to compare this year's Sherron with off the '08 team are not Brandon and Mario; that is an apples and oranges comparison. The '08 players to compare the '10 Sherron with are the '08 Sherron and RR. I suspect he stacks up quite well against both just in raw numbers. And if you tried to adjust the '10 Sherron to playing about half time at the PG slot, and with the teammates the '08 Sherron and RR had, then I suspect Sherron's numbers would in many cases exceed both '08 players performances, but perhaps for rebounds and steals vs. RR. But here again, the '10 Sherron plays with dominant rebounding bigs, and the '08 Sherron and RR played on a team that made use of a lot of perimeter player rebounding, because Kaun and Shady were not rebounding monsters in the paint that Cole and the Morris Twins have proven to be this season.

Rock chalk!

Tony Bandle 12 years, 9 months ago are correct sir!!!

Jay Bilas in the NCAA Finals in 2008 was the only one in a panel of Billy Packer, Digger Phelps, Bryan Gumbal who not only gave KU a chance but actually picked the Jayhawks. He's been my guy ever since!!

Jay is to NCAA basketball as Chris Collinsworth is to NFL football...great insights and smooth presentations!!

Jacobpaul81 12 years, 9 months ago

Okiedave- Perkins didn't do hire Bill Self. He wasn't even here. Know your facts please.

Fairgrove - Thanks. I get so tired of all the slathering that goes on over Collins. I'm sure he's a good kid. Bill seems to like him. And at times he's a great player. Especially he backs off and runs the offense. But there are many times I want to ring his neck. I've never watched a player who has aggravated me more. The K-State game is a perfect example. Around here, all people did was sing his praises for that ugly lucky shot in OT. But he blew it at the end of regulation. I can't understand why a 5'10" player would run to the place where the sideline meets the half court line... you're the most trappable player on the court little man. Keep away from trappable places!

Jay - Do you even have a job?

Keckadek 12 years, 9 months ago


"Jay Bilas in the NCAA Finals in 2008 was the only one in a panel of Billy Packer, Digger Phelps, Bryan Gumbal who not only gave KU a chance but actually picked the Jayhawks. He's been my guy ever since!!"

You are absolutely right. it seemed clear to me that KU was the best team in the final 4 but everyone else except Bilas had their head up their a**. i don't like him because he picked KU, i like him because he seems to call it like he sees it, regardless of the name on the front of the jersey.

Jay Bilas!

Sherron Marlon Collins!

Bill Self!

Rock Chalk Jayhawk Go KU!

Lacy Mohler 12 years, 9 months ago

Jacobpaul81----your're right about the KSU game. Collins came in when KU had a 1 point lead, made one shot, missed a free-throw and was immediately declared National Player of the Year. Basically it is the only memorable shot he has made in Big Twelve play and that was because of the huge amount of attention he got for a non-game winning shot.

Bobby Knight called it like it is. I want to KU to win, but I am tired of fans making New York Cheese Cake out of Mr. Hankey where Collins is concerned.

hawk316 12 years, 9 months ago

Color me a Jay Bilas fan. In my opinion, he's the best. In the past I never questioned Knight's impartiality, but last night I think he succumbed somewhat to the emotional environment in College Station and began to favor the underdog (in this case, A&M). Anyone else pick that up?

I also think Knight was a little hard on Sherron last night. Obviously, Collins was having an off night, but Keegan is absolutely correct in his article. Sherron brings something else to the court that is invaluable even when otherwise he's playing rather poorly. It's his tremendous leadership, "contagious confidence" and strong will to win. These are the intangibles that Knight apparently overlooked. Of course, unlike Knight many of us have had the advantage of watching Sherron consistently display those amazing qualities over the past four seasons. But, as Keegan pointed out, come tournament time things will go much better if Sherron rediscovers that sweet stroke.

Joe Baker 12 years, 9 months ago

The Collins comment from Knight was the coach speakingt. If there would have been a chair, he would've thrown it on the court in protest to Collins' play. But he knew it wouldn't do Collins or ESPN any good!

Seriously, Knight is a good coach and it's got to bother him just a bit to sit on the sideline, at a table (w/ Musberger no doubt) and watch guys fail to live up to their potential. Good coaches tend to be harder on the better players to get more out of them during each game. Knight likes to coach vicariously through Self or any other coach.

It's really funny to listen for when Coach Knight speaks and when the ESPN personality speaks.

Steve Brown 12 years, 9 months ago

"He has forgotten more about basketball than we'll ever know." posted above my thoughts exactly. Coach Knight loves Kansas talent and hustle and is one public figure that has spoken out about Calimari still in coaching after his checkered past. Coach Knight always teaches and I learn from watching him. Sure he is disciplined don't forget he taught at West Point it is in his blood, get over it.

Knight appreciates passing and defense and knows positioning, he doese not tolerate the hurried shot.

Docileboy: "never could beat Kansas when he was coaching, " Sorry pal your dead wrong, sure it was with Indy talent not TTech Div. II type talent, but he came into AFH when we had final four talent and spanked us good. I saw the game.

You are right about one thing, he couldn't coach John Wall or Derrick Rose, and he wouldn't want to. Vitale is barnum and bailey entertaining. Jay Bilas brings ex player insight and has vision of the game. Coach Knight is brilliant, and the comment on Sherron should sit was spot on.

Mike Kendall 12 years, 9 months ago

Hawk316---I like Bob Knight a lot but I have to agree with you---Bob Knight did succumbed somewhat to the emotional environment in College Station. I think a simple explanation is his lack of experience as a broadcaster. I guess I like him for his knowledge of the game---that's what I try to pick up on the most.

No question, Jay Bilas is good. Bilas played for Duke---saw him play against KU in the Final Four at Dallas's Reunion Arena---a Larry Brown coached team that lost in the National Semi-Finals in 1986. Bilas isn't like Vitale, where favors the ACC or the Big East---he tells it like it is. The one I like to listen to is Jimmy Dykes, the "Prince of Late Night" of basketball commentary, as he is widely known for. Dykes likes the Jayhawks to win it all this season---in his words, "the Jayhawks have all the pieces to the puzzle to make it happen!"

kvskubball 12 years, 9 months ago

Hey Jay...

I agree with most of your points in the Immaculate Win post(don't fall over dead on me), EXCEPT...and I don't know for sure, because I haven't seen any stats about X's leaping ability, but IMO he doesn't have great jumping 'technique' when he is driving from the right side, going either left or right then left...when he is getting stuffed is usually on drives from the right side of the basket...I think his prep is bad...and he kind of wrong-foots his take-off because he compensates for his uni-dextrosity...uh only left-handedness, so he is having difficulty syncing up his leg-work to prep his left-hand....I think if he could utilize both hands, this would be less of a problem.

I'm not totally sold on my take, but he is so ungainly in his approach to the basket from the right side, that I think it is more than just an elevation ability issue.

FairgroveJayhawk 12 years, 9 months ago

If Knight catches wind of our affinity for his commentator capacity, he will wonder why KU fans weren't nicer earlier:)

Agree Collins will come out of his sub par performances. Hopefully he will play at a level the rest of the season to be argued the best guard in KU history. He has made major contributions throughout his career at KU. He single-handedly saved games last year and also made some hard to watch, but led the team to a very successful season. There is no other guard in the nation that can replace him in the last 7 minutes of a close game.

Martin Rosenblum 12 years, 9 months ago

FairgroveJayhawk -

I contest your theory that Sherron wants to "..beat the snot out of enybody he plays". Many games have been played well into the second half before he takes over with authority. He is a showboat and wants to win as badly as anybody. But, winning is something I think he has become spoiled by. He now reminds me of the kid who doesn't put any pressure on himself until the end of the semester and then kicks it into high gear.

His NBA stock is something that I believe he does not equate with his development as a player. Little has changed in three years relative to his style of play. He has gotten more adept in traffic with the ball. But, he's still that little human bowling ball that somehow ends up amonst the trees with nowhere to go and puts up some circus shots. His value is his toughness, not finese. How many NBA guards can make a living running into traffic and not dishing the ball off? How many little guards can go one on one against similar sized guards, regardless of their dribbling prowess? The AndOne league would probably be a better stage for him with his current mindset. He wants to be the highlight reel star without the fundamentals that players grow from.

Chris Kurtz 12 years, 9 months ago

Collins needs to come out when he is only doing negative things and he can't hit a shot. It's one thing to have an off night, but when you turn the ball over and give up points that is when you need to rest and think about it.

Even if you are considered the leader you can still cost your team the game. It's not a 1 man team, if Collins struggles someone needs to come in and not make stupid plays. I remember a few weeks back Knight said "Stupid loses more games than smart wins." We don't need someone to come in and make a huge difference, just don't turn over the ball.

On a night where Collins turned it over 5 times, had no steals of his own and couldn't shoot he played 35 minutes. More than his average. Self never even made him take a break to think about his mistake. I don't think anyone is above sitting on the bench if they play that bad.

This year our players are better and we found other guys to win, but if A&M just hits a few more shots we lose. We will face better teams in the tournament.

We need Collins playing well to win. We will only get so far playing like last night and riding our "leader" until the end. It didn't work out in football this year.

mikehawk 12 years, 9 months ago

Coach knows he is tired, but he has to have him out there. He personifies everything Coach wants in a team--which is toughness. Sherron is the guy you want on your side in a street fight. He is fearless and no one is going to mess with Sherron. That breeds confidence for the rest of the team, whether he is scoring or not. It is cliche, but Sherron brings amazing intangibles. Sure he makes mistakes at times, but who out there would substitute the risk with a less aggressive Sherron. Look back at the 2008 championship game and look at the difference of Derrick Rose with Sherron guarding him versus others. If you have ever competed, you love a guy like that wearing the same jersey as yours. He'll get rested, and he'll be ready. He gives us a chance to win with the shear force of his will.

Gene Jackson 12 years, 9 months ago

I wonder if Coach Self ever hears the comments made by Bob Knight on the broadcast. Does he hear a replay of the ESPN broadcast? Some of Knight's comments are very insightful and if I were a coach hearing his comments, I would consider them along with other factors. After all, Coach Knight is not a bad coach and would be valuable to have on your team as a consultant.

FairgroveJayhawk 12 years, 9 months ago

memhawk- it appears we both agree Collins wants to win, but at different levels of desire. Hopefully he will come out of his slump soon, get back to shooting his normal shooting percentage and hopefully, hopefully he won't have anymore turnover festivals as he did at Ta&m.

I trust he'll do better while continuing to be the fearless leader of this team, which has allowed KU basketball great success the past two years.

Martin Rosenblum 12 years, 9 months ago

I can't agree more.

With your gift, maybe you should volunteer to negotiate peace in the Middle East! You're really smooth!

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