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Tuesday, February 10, 2009

Border bummer: Kansas smarting after blowing 14-point halftime lead in 62-60 loss

Kansas defenders Mario Little, left, and Cole Aldrich take a bit of harassment from the Missouri faithful during the second half Monday, Feb. 9, 2009 at Mizzou Arena.

Kansas defenders Mario Little, left, and Cole Aldrich take a bit of harassment from the Missouri faithful during the second half Monday, Feb. 9, 2009 at Mizzou Arena.

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Mizzou edges past KU, 62-60

Kansas couldn't hold on against Missouri in Columbia.

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2009 KU-MU Feb. 10

— The memory of 1,000 or so gold-clad Missouri fans rushing the court to celebrate the Tigers’ 62-60 victory over Kansas University will stick with Cole Aldrich a long, long time.

“Oh, it’s tough. This is one of those games that will linger,” Aldrich, KU’s sophomore center, said Monday after the Jayhawks squandered a 14-point halftime lead, losing on a jumper in the lane by junior Zaire Taylor with 1.3 seconds left.

“If this doesn’t hurt, I don’t know what hurts. It really eats at me. No. 1, it’s Missouri, and No. 2, we didn’t fight. We didn’t play the second half like we normally do. We didn’t hold our composure.”

Aldrich, who was pretty much ignored by his teammates the second half in putting up just three shots, finished with 15 rebounds, but just eight points. KU’s other focal player, Sherron Collins, missed nine of 13 shots and had nine points on a night only Tyshawn Taylor (11 points) cracked double figures.

The Collins-Aldrich duo also combined for 10 turnovers on a night the Jayhawks committed 27 turnovers, 15 the second half.

It was a half won by Mizzou, 46 points to 30.

“We lacked concentration. We made sloppy passes,” said Collins, who missed two free throws with 1:48 left and KU up, 58-56, trying to hang on for dear life. “We didn’t play defense. No defense. There’s nothing else I can say. The turnovers would have had no effect if we played defense.”

He naturally was upset at KU’s defense on the Tigers’ last three possessions.

First, Leo Lyons cashed a pair of free throws at :58, tying the score at 58.Then after Collins was tied up in the lane, J.T. Tiller hit a jumper at :50, giving MU the lead.

Mario Little tied the score on a clutch baseline jumper at :29. However, on the final possession of the game, MU let the game clock run down before Taylor canned a jumper from about 10 feet.

KU’s Aldrich actually was able to hoist a last-second shot, but it was off balance and had no chance of falling to force overtime.

KU’s Tyrel Reed — he had eight points and five rebounds with no turnovers in 22 minutes — explained the mess-up on MU’s winning bucket.

“We were in man-to-man and wanted to have strong help on Cole in case they drove on him. Zaire was my man, and I closed out on him way too hard,” Reed said. “He shot-faked me and went around me. It’s basically a scouting-report (mistake) on me. I should have known he’s more a driver than shooter so I take that responsibility on that last play for him getting that shot off.”

KU coach Bill Self wasn’t pleased with his squad’s defense late.

“Obviously, we didn’t guard it well. They got a good look and got a good look the possession before on Tiller’s shot,” Self said. “We didn’t defend those two possessions very well.

Self was unhappy to see this one slip away. KU fell to 19-5 overall and 8-1 in the league; MU improved to 21-4, 8-2.

“We had the game where we wanted it,” Self said. “Obviously we didn’t finish worth a flip.”

“We did a pitiful job handling any type of pressure. We were not strong with the ball.”

Points were tough to come by down the stretch. Travis Releford hit a driving layup and foul shot to give KU a 54-43 lead at 8:19. KU didn’t score a two-pointer again until Little’s jumper from the corner.

“I can handle getting beat,” Self said. “We can learn from getting beat. We didn’t expect to run the table or anything like that. When you put yourself in position to be up 14 at halftime, 11 under 10 minutes and seven under four (minutes), as a coach you feel you need to win those games.

“We missed some free throws late. It’s disappointing because in large part we were trying to hang on as opposed to attacking.”

Self said it was “probably good” the Jayhawks had some time before playing again — 2:30 p.m. Saturday at Kansas State.

“If we can’t handle losing a game, we’re not a tough-minded team,” he said. “This one is different. It’s a big rivalry, obviously one we had in our grasp and let slip away. It’s probably good we have five days off.”

Comments

Annette Lee 13 years, 9 months ago

kief &cuz great free throws: But if Rio is open, pass don't shoot!

TwistedFish31 13 years, 9 months ago

I'd like to thank the missouri student body for putting this KU team on a pedestal tonight. To storm the court means that your students believe their team just upset a superior team. While it did not take the sting out of watching KU blow a 14 point lead, it made me grin watching their fans run around and celebrate as if they had accomplished the greatest victory in missouri basketball history. It's good that they see us in that light. It puts the tigers in their place, which will always be behind the Jayhawks. The day the KU student body sees another team (especially a Big XII team) in that light will be the saddest day in KU basketball history. And the day the KU student body comes out onto the court for beating mizzou, will cause a lot of alumni to toss their dinner.

Sean Rodger 13 years, 9 months ago

I thought the exact same thing about them storming the court! The icing on the cake is hearing all the ksu fan chatter now. I hate both teams, and the fans from both schools are terrible. I seen one guy write on facebook "K Who". I put yeah, that KU team who won a Nat'l Championship and Orange Bowl in the same year.It was definately sloppy, but there was no way they should have let that lead slip away like that!

NH_JHawk 13 years, 9 months ago

coulda, woulda, shoulda...Terrible 2nd half. I thought things really started to derail when Mc Morris bumped the ref and got the T. Really stupid thing to do and a sign that there's a lot of maturing left to do with the twins. At that point, 40 minutes of hell took hold and the crowd willed Mizzery back into the game. Prediction: KU by at least 15 at AFH.Let's get ready for another big rivalry game at the AFH West Annex in Manhattan. Hope it's a happy Valentine's Day.

Ted Toulouse 13 years, 9 months ago

I put this loss squarely on the guards, specifically Morningstar. although he only was credited with 3 TOs, his lack of aggressiveness to advance the ball in an OPEN COURT against the press was inexcusable. I understand there are safety valves in breaking a press, but we were advancing the ball in the first half and it CRUSHED Mizz-poo. Then we started playing Roy-ball and playing not to loose the lead. Taylor and Reed have their moments with this too but Morningstar was hideous last night at breaking the press.

Greg Woolen 13 years, 9 months ago

To be honest, we were lucky to even be in this game with 27 turnovers. Cole Aldrich continues to amaze me by getting involved in the game, even when his teammates ignore him on the floor. We showed our youth out there last night, but I think it is something that we will improve upon. This team has a lot to learn, both on the basketball and maturity standpoints. HCBS will help this team grow. We just have to continue to be patient and enjoy the growth of this young team.

Mike Barnhart 13 years, 9 months ago

Ugly game! Rest assured, Coach Self will get more use out of this loss than he would have if we'd won. These guys must learn to finish games. They've got no killer instinct, especially the Morris brothers. Man those guys have strange attitudes. I'm not sure whether they're soft or cocky or too casual or just uninterested but it bugs the cr*p out of me! I'm not sure if they're helping or hurting.

jjayhawk 13 years, 9 months ago

What a shame to lose a game that way. I put it all on the turnovers. Most of them were unforced and unexcusable. We beat them bad on the boards and held them to 16 first half points. No way we should have let that one slip away. A win would have basically made the Big 12 a two team race. Very disappointing.

Carter Patterson 13 years, 9 months ago

NH_Jhawk...if you look at the replay....McMorris is walking slowly with his head down straight to his seat. Should he have looked up to make sure you don't bump a ref? Probably, but the ref is the one who lost control. By no means did the officiating crew cost us this game, but nonetheless they laid an egg big time.The 4 second 5 second call is a travesty. The refs arm goes out 4 times and the pass is away well before the 5th. The other 5 second call on Morningstar with the dribble was also ridiculous as he clearly created distance. The refs drank the home team kool-aid.

chanutejayhawk 13 years, 9 months ago

If we blow out State in Manhattan, it will make this pill easier to swallow

keith horinek 13 years, 9 months ago

I agree with Wooley, is Cole the only player that kept up the intensity last night? It's not rocket science guys! Cole is a good free throw shooter, GET HIM THE BALL INSIDE! If they foul him, he shoots free throws. I thought the rest of the team ignored him in the second half. The guards ran out of gas with 5 minutes to go and let it slip away. Travis Releford had a break out game along with Tyrel Reed but Sherron and Tyshawn played at the same level as Misery. The twins were back to their same ol same ol which is disapointing because the last 3 games they looked really good. With that being said I think Coach will have them ready for the purples on saturday. This loss hurts, but I don't dwell on the losses, I still remember one ol Coach who always stressed, it's not the wins or losses that make up a season, but rather the "journey" of the entire season. Of course he could never win the National Championship untill he left KU.

Martin Rosenblum 13 years, 9 months ago

Box score revelations: 3 point shooting was not even 14% for either team with Tyrel our only productive guy with two made 3's. The Morris chumps combined for a 20 minute effort for the night. Oh yeah, and a "T"!For the second game in a row, we were outscored in the second half.We could only muster playing eight players with limited Morris time and surprising Releford minutes While MU played 11 guys and forced 27 turnovers. Seems like that jump in the rankings was a little premature in retrospect. I also don't see MU as a top 25 team without a post game. The technical foul (momentum shift to MU) and the Collins (Moody-esque) free throw misses were the biggest reasons for the gold and black upchuck on the court that was seen on national TV.

Joe Joseph 13 years, 9 months ago

Kansas is deserved of an apology from Big XII officials for the bogus 5-second call on Brady's inbounds pass.

TtownHawk 13 years, 9 months ago

They may have forced 27 turnovers but quite a few of those were bull**** offensive foul calls or that RIDICULOUS 5 second call on the inbound pass. Get a ref crew that will call a fair game and we win this game by 10+

goshenjhawk 13 years, 9 months ago

Hey OakvilleJhawk where you at this morning? The dream died last nite huh? Undefeated in conference.... You had me starting to believe:) Guys step back and let it cool down a bit. Sure there were some terrible calls but our guys let themselves get totally outplayed in the second half. You can't just lay it at the feet of the refs. But it sure does burn extra bad when you see the classless Mizzou fans. Storm the court?? Are you kidding?? when #19 beats #16 and storms the floor it screams I'm a clueless loser with a joke of a basketball program! Can I get an Amen?

JayhawkLova7 13 years, 9 months ago

Seriously, I mean Mizzou might be 'better' this year, but we beat ourselves. Yeah sure we got beat. But hey, I'll bet any MU fan that we beat them by a fair amount back in Lawrence come March. I tell you what though when they come to Lawrence I hope our officials call those charges and walks, and 5 second calls! I mean seriously when Fran is disagreeing you know that the officials are full of it. I was ticked off at the officials that game. What was that call against Marcus? I mean give me a break. That official must have been testy or something because seriously? That was a horrible call! But I guess thats what you get playing at Mizzou. A bunch of people who don't know what their doing. I was getting pretty excited when we went up by 14 though. We just let it all go. We let them win. I mean pass the ball Sherron. But I can't say anything bad about Collins. I love the guy, and think about all the times he saved us. It was just a crazy game but come March, Mizzou is going to get a lesson in basketball.

Jim Sanders 13 years, 9 months ago

I've seen a lot of games, but that was one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen. The T on Morris, all the charges when the refs would just look at each other and then call it on KU. The 5 second call on Morningstar, the 4 second inbound call, the play where Cole comes down with the rebound and the MU player sticks his face right next to his elbow...(we watched in slowmo and the MU player was bracing for the hit well before the contact as Cole always turns his elbows after he rebounds.) Anyways...It always seems like our league refs try to make games closer for a big crowd. Does anyone ever wonder why once teams like MU/KSU get into the tourney they lose? The don't get all those calls anymore. The big 12 refs are a joke. The MU/OSU game had a number of bad calls as well. As Mangino once said, "Dollar Signs" Payback time in Lawrence.

Ryan Leary 13 years, 9 months ago

we blew that game......i have nothing to complain about except the 5 second call when we were inbounding that was crap it was only 3 seconds. i think that is when the game started to turn it put mizzou back in it and gave them momentum yes we answered every comeback they made but that was the first one that started it all. it bothers me that we lost don't get me wrong but we had the worst team we have had in 10 years and they had the best team they have had in 10 years so it just seems different but lets get them back in AFH baby! 20+ point win!ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK!

Brennan Keller 13 years, 9 months ago

Even though losing to mizzou always sucks, i don't think the loss is as bad as it seems. Sure, we gave up a good size lead. but having such a young team and playing in the hostile enviroment at Mizzou always makes it tough. KU is still 2nd place in the big 12, and with 5 days off, im sure Bill Self will have our young hawks ready to play ksu. KU does need a must win against kstate to secure a good seed in the tourney in my opinion. Sherron Collins must be more consistent, and for gosh sakes get the ball to COLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tony Bandle 13 years, 9 months ago

goshenjhawk....oh well, sometimes dreams come true, sometimes dreams turn to nightmares. the key is to keep dreaming...would you believe 15-1!!!!!: ]Also, Amen on the court storming. Someone mentioned that KU fans don't show their spirit because we never storm the court. I contend just the opposite...we show our loyalty and dedication by having faith that KU should win every game and that it should be no surprise.I truly LOVE the fact that KU fans are above all that silliness!!!I guess I assumed it was going to be 5 on 5 last night. Frankly, I have to disagree with the majority, if you even touch a ref, you are risking a technical foul which is a double whammy as it counts as a personal. Right or wrong, It's the refs court and it's the players responsibility is to avoid all contact. And, forgive me oh Spirit of the Phog, but I am not totally convinced having watched the replay several times that maybe, just maybe, there was a little intent in Morris' path. I truly hope I'm wrong.

Toto_the_great 13 years, 9 months ago

I think you guys should look again at the Morris T. Yes his head was down, but look at his eyes... he eyed the ref for a second. It was deserved. As much as I like the Morris twins being the enforcers, they need to be smart. What frustrated me was inconsistent charging calls (e.g., the two plays leading up to the T). The first 4 L's were easy to handle and I thought they would be good learning experiences, but this one was out of our control (okay we had too many TOs, but we forced a few ourselves) and stings a hellava lot more.

nocaljayhawk 13 years, 9 months ago

Fouls: Kansas, 22, Missouri 16 (+6 fouls assessed)FTA: Kansas 16, Mizzouri 27 (-11 FTA)Missouri won by two. Would those be the two gift points they got from the officials following that butchered "Five-second" call after another MU foul shot??? Christ.

jayhawk375 13 years, 9 months ago

Why can't Missouri fans act like they have been there before and keep themselves from storming the court? That shows no class at all, however, Missouri has always lacked class! I hope that KU fans stay in there seats come March 1st when we destroy them in Allen.

NiceTry 13 years, 9 months ago

What a bunch of cry babies you all are. The officiating...sob, sob...they stormed the court....sob...sob...we gave them the game...sob...sob...Toughen up. Get ready for the next game and quit obsessing over MU.

OutWestNEHawk 13 years, 9 months ago

Is booger-picking a state sport in Mizz'? I laughed for many minutes watching Pinky' imitate Booger Man Chase with his pick-pick-pick. I expected ESPN to change to another camera so as to not embarrass Pinky' but I guess booger-picking is just too much to ignore.

cklarock 13 years, 9 months ago

Tough loss to swallow for the fans, but one with many teaching opportunities for a young team.

Michael Bratisax 13 years, 9 months ago

I'm much more worried about blowing 2nd leads than celebrating MU fans. An 11-2 run to win the game would have Allen Field House fans up and cheering also (although not on the court).This game reminded me of Srycuse, a game that should have been in the bag as well.Still..8-1 in Conference for such a young team is quite an accomplishment but there is a tendancy for this team to make games a lot closer than they should be.

tominkc 13 years, 9 months ago

Bought tickets last week and headed to Columbia for the game. Missouri fans are some of the angriest people I've ever seen. Students are one thing, but even the alumni sitting near us were going apesh!t at every call. Also, I was surprised at how much they rely on their sound system to create noise. Their band hardly ever played, and at almost every dead ball they blared something new over the speakers. Annoying, but fortunately all of the students feel like they need to dance to it, which makes for some pretty funny "white guy" dancing moments. And storming the court? They were favored by 4 or so. No ranked team's fans should storm the court, ever.Finally, I really hope that our students represent KU better than theirs represent them. They were profane and insulting - some of the things that were said were pretty unbelievable, even coming from college students.

Justin Carlson 13 years, 9 months ago

"Concerns surround Sheron" I am a huge fan his entire career but a some point Self needs to pull the reins on Collins! Just look at his stat sheet in the games that were close or in doubt. SC has played selfish. Way to many forced 1 on 5 drives to the paint, or a pull-up 25ft "3." He is an amazing player but at some point you have to realize the dribble drive is not an effective offense. In the last 4 games he is 17 of 54 from the field awful 31%, 5 of 24 from "3" 21% and 14 TO WOW!!! As far as season totals he already has 82 TO through 24 games on pace 130 TO in comparison Mario C 75 TO last year in 40 games!! I truly think he could be one of the best point gaurds in the country but he needs to realize he must play with in the game and within his teammates. When he is not shooting well pass the ball. By the way KU coaches and players we are an unselfish program that has just about as many assists as field goals why are we relying on Sheron with 20 sec on the shot clock to hold the ball at half court and drive with 6 sec left and turn it over or through up a junk shot!! GET COLE THE BALL!!!!

jchief40 13 years, 9 months ago

Morris² = cannot finish near the bucket unless there is enough space to put up an easy lay up. They always go up OUT OF CONTROL and the opposing players would be wise to just back off and expose just how horrible they are finishing. Not chance of those shots coming in. Mid-range game for this guys (especially from the side) is also awful. Airball awful. They are not strong enough to go up strong. If someone even gets a hand in their face or taps them it's over as far as finishing. I know I wasn't the only one whose stomach turned every time Morris² touched the ball. I though - just DON'T SHOOT IT. Awful play from them. And then the T on top of that just showed neither of them deserve to start. But what are our options? We have no choice but to let them "grow" but I see a definate ceiling with them now. They just are SOFT. SOFT SOFT SOFT SOFT. D@mn you Morris! You don't know how to simply go up and make the shot. All you pansies try to do is draw a foul - you certainly don't have the talent to make those shots - let alone BOTH. Get in their face and they become little boys.

goshenjhawk 13 years, 9 months ago

Oakville, i love it.... why not 15-1?:) and couldn't have put it any better "we show our loyalty and dedication by having faith that KU should win every game and that it should be no surprise"..... That is what KU and its fans are about. I hope I never see KU fans take the court after a win like last night. Even if it was the hated Mizzou felines.

eddiesuttonschoolofdriving 13 years, 9 months ago

Mizzou is no better than Nebraska - great scrappy defense and really mediocre offense - so yeah, we should be pissed about losing to them. Totally agree the refs were uneven on the charging calls, blew the 5 second calls, etc. - BUT - come on, Morris DEFINITELY threw an elbow as he intentionally shouldered the ref. That was simply the STUPIDEST thing I've ever seen, worse than Chris Weber calling the timeout - b/c he simply honestly didn't remember they were out of timeouts - what's Morris' excuse? I think Self is gonna lose his mind with anger when he sees what Morris did on the replay - and I think he should suspend him for a game - seriously. That kind of thing, left unchecked, will make Morris and KU giant targets for the refs all year- cuz you know they're talking about it. UGGGGH

PAHAWK1 13 years, 9 months ago

Amen, JCAR2510. 27 TOs (6 each by SC and TT) and 9 Assists for the game tell the whole story.

tigerfann1 13 years, 9 months ago

KU fans - first, imagine that Bill Self recruits a bunch of criminals and runs your program into the ground. KU sucks big time for 5 or 6 seasons, then KU hires a new, fairly untested coach who inherits that mess and turns it around. Then, maybe you can understand running onto the court to celebrate beating your archenemy who has beaten you soundly the last 5-6 seasons in front of a national audience and probably assuring a NCAA tournament bid. On some level, I know that KU fans are glad that Missouri is back to being competitive. Come on, admit it. Like I said yesterday on this site, making fun of Quin Snyder was like shooting fish in a barrel. It wasn't much fun for you either. I truly hope that Anderson and Self stick around for a long time. It was a lot of fun seeing Norm and Roy on the sidelines for all of those years. Tough loss but a fun game. A lot of youth on both teams, so it should be fun to watch both of the teams progress. Go Tigers!!!

jjayhawk 13 years, 9 months ago

I dont like the Morris twins body language. It reminds me of Keith Langford. Always pouting and whining. We DID not lose because of the Refs, you guys are starting to sound like Mizzou fans. Dont stoop to their level. 27 turnovers will lose many games for you.

Mike Crosbie 13 years, 9 months ago

I was at the game, and yes the officiating was "home crowd" but that happens everywhere.What really stuck me is exiting the arena, I heard mu fans saying that game was better than being #1 at the end of the season. Half way home, I thought, I should have asked those fans, how do you know, you've never been #1 at the end of the season?

Jeff Hargate 13 years, 9 months ago

Is it just me or does anyone else see an alarming trend of not finishing? Even in the games we win we play the last 5-10 minutes with no focus. 3 of the 5 losses have come because of a total meltdown in crunch time. Self said after the Nebraska game that he heard the Rock Chalk chant with 2 min to go and asked Piper if anyone has seen us finish. He knows this is a problem and 3 games later it is still a problem...not good.

JayCeph 13 years, 9 months ago

As much as this loss rides with the turnovers and the shoddy guard play, as well as some strategically missed free throws, I blame the end of the game (loss) on Self.I'm not a Self-basher (although it did take me a while to come around to his style especially after the Richmond loss) and think he is predominately a very sound coach. The minor exception being last night...With under 30 seconds to go in the game, with the score tied and the opponent with the ball, one should never let them dictate the pace so they can have the last shot. KU needed to apply a lot of pressure for the full length of the court in order to do a couple of things...1.- Disrupt the Miz game plan as it pertained to how they wanted to dictate the pace2.- Force them to either try to break our press and take an early shot (whereby they miss and we get a chance at a rebound) or they make the shot and we get the ball back with time on the clock to at least try for the tie in order to send the game to OT.3.- If they can't break our press, we could get a turn over, a jump ball (which would have given KU the ball) or they don't get a shot off and the game goes to OT.All of that being said, we just sat back on our heels and let them whittle away the clock so they could effectively take the shot to win it or go to OT. It was in their hands... not ours!!This is just a very bad coaching move. Hands down. I really like Self and how he gets his teams to round into form later in the season but, already half way through the conference schedule, this type of poor decision making is uncalled for.Now, we just have to stew in our own funk for a week while we wait to go to the Little Apple and play in another similarly hostile environment. This just makes me sick.

goshenjhawk 13 years, 9 months ago

Tigerfann1 I am actually impressed to hear a Missouri fan put together a full paragraph with a reasoned point of view. But after thinking about it for a bit I have an answer... NO I truly am not glad to see Missouri competitive... I love nothing more than to see that program struggle and wallow in the quagmire depths of ineptitude. I love a good basketball game so in that respect are the games more exciting? Definitely. But never mistake that for the wish for anything but failure and disappointment for the Missouri program. That's just how it is. Rock Chalk Jayhawk

JayViking 13 years, 9 months ago

Ugh. Morris Twins...I can handle the freshmen growing pains, I really can. What I absolutely cannot handle is the ATTITUDE. Could there be a worse representation of KU basketball? All these kids do is foul and whine. Foul and whine.Suck it up, grow up, and play some basketball.

JayhawkLova7 13 years, 9 months ago

I have to agree with goshenjhawk. I personally, as a KU fan will never, ever feel any satisfaction from Missouri ever being good. Seeing MU struggle is the highlight of watching sports next to watching KU dominate of course. I have to give MU their props for winning the game, but c'mon, both teams didn't play so well. Just because I am giving the Tigers their props doesn't mean I don't hate them any less.

Matt Kenton 13 years, 9 months ago

JayCeph, I was thinking the same thing as we let them dribble down the clock for the last shot. But look at all the mistakes we made last night... the turnovers from tipped passes, not getting the ball to Cole, missed free throws, Morris twins (too many to list)...I heard Self say one time he believes we don't win the NC last year without the loss in Stillwater. I will never accuse any coach of losing "on purpose," but losing that one last night is not such a bad thing whey you're trying to teach so many lessons to so many young players.Also you think we should have pressed? Both teams played Saturday, but MU had the deeper, more experienced team. Pressing would have worn our players down faster and opened up the door for getting our players in foul trouble. Just my thoughts... please don't respond with 10 pages of posts, I won't have time to read them all!

knayte 13 years, 9 months ago

Tigerfann, I agree. Rivalries are much more fun when they're competitive. As much as it is over-hyped, the Duke-UNC rivalry is what it is because both teams generally play at the same high level. I would love that for KU-Mizzou. I would have much more fun watching KU beat a highly-ranked Mizzou team than continually watching blowouts against inferior competition. That's not really a rivalry.

COJHawk 13 years, 9 months ago

Aldrich was ignored because about half of KU's possessions were steals on the perimeter going the opposite direction. And probably half of those were jump passes. Tough to watch.And as hard as some of those calls were, the refs didn't lose that game. If KU defends in the 2nd half like they did in the 1st, makes some free throws in the 2nd half and "limits" their turnovers to "only" 20, KU walks with a 10 point win. The refs had nothing to do with bad D, bad clutch FT shooting, and bad jump pass turnovers.

JayCeph 13 years, 9 months ago

KUMatt, I understand where you are coming from regarding the turnovers but, I would much rather have the opportunity at the end of the game in KU's hands and not in the hands of Misuse.I'm not suggesting pressing all night. I'm strictly talking about the very last possession. If our team can't press for 30 seconds, then something is horribly wrong.Just a very bad coaching decision late in the game with a victory on the line. There is no excuse for that.I hope there is something much deeper and richer at the end of this (a lesson learned?).

cfmlaw 13 years, 9 months ago

The Morris twins' attitudes are horrible. Put whatever spin you want on Marcus' actions, but there is no doubt he knew what he was doing and who he bumped. It was a classless act and not one that I want to see linked with Kansas basketball. They do not play strong with the ball either. I would rather see some of the other freshman given a chance -- they certainly have to have better attitudes.

tominkc 13 years, 9 months ago

Aldrich was ignored in the second half, but when he did get the ball I was really frustrated with him. This game pointed out the one real weakness in his game - the ability to pass out of a double-team. It seems like he just holds the ball about a second and a half too long. He needs to recognize the doubleteam earlier and get rid of the ball much quicker.

FairgroveJayhawk 13 years, 9 months ago

Hey the T on Morris was legit. I replayed it b/c initially I also thought it was crap but it only took one replay to see it was intentional. He leaned in purposefully to give a bump on the ref and then acted like "what, what did i do". It was a complete bonehead play and one that has no place at Kansas. I'm sure when Self watches the tape he'll have a few things to say about it. Self likely saw it right away which is why Marcus sat the rest of the half. It's a frustrating loss when most of the team is playing at a lower than normal caliber. but when someone acts out in such a childish way to hurt the team it is extremely frustrating. You didn't see Cole crying everytime he felt a call didn't go his way, and he never will. He sucks it up, recognizes Self will take care of the crappy calls and gets back to the game plan. It'll be interesting to see how long it will take this "attitude" shown by Marcus and Markieff to be curbed by the coaching staff. It reminds me of a few players from the past, namely padgett and graves.All together a crappy game, misery received a gift yesterday.

Brian Skelly 13 years, 9 months ago

This is almost a carbon copy of the 06 game (or was it 05) up there. The one where Moody missed the FTs at the end of the game that would have clinched it and we lost in OT.Rush, Chalmers, Wright played like scared little kids the last 10 minutes... not unlike what our guys did last night.Im not happy, but in the scheme of things this is inconsequential. That is assuming we beat them in Lawrence, which I think we will.Look folks... this team was NOT going to go undefeated. Now they have to beat KSU Saturday. Which is no sure thing after last nights "performance".KU turned it over well more than usual, and Mizzou shot well worse than usual... but SOMEONE had to win that wretched thing last night.As I mentioned yesterday as well, I'll take the "L" in Columbia for the longer term view in the Conference and the Tournament. Losing in Columbia isnt going to damage either of those unless we tank elsewhere.And the reality is this IS the best Mizzou team since Quins Queers his first or second year with Paulding and Arthur. We're down, they're up. Calm down folks.We'll be fine.

kennethst 13 years, 9 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Matt Kenton 13 years, 9 months ago

Thanks for the clarification JayCeph, I tend to skim through your posts because they are always so long, and missed that detail. I agree and feel helpless to watch an opposing team dribble down the clock and take the last shot. We rarely see it. But my take is, Self had seen enough in this game that maybe he wasn't going to do everything possible. He was probably thinking, let's see how we respond in this situation... defensively and offensively. I find no fault in Cole whatsoever for this loss, but he made a great catch at the end and did have time for a quick turnaround.Anyway, pick Self apart for that last decision to let them dribble down the clock, or try and see the big picture and realize we lost a game we should have lost and will be better because of it.

kennethst 13 years, 9 months ago

Anyone else say the Morris twins are not very talented.....and may not have a future at KU? I know they are young-but They certainly inspire absolutely zero confidence. They may transfer out when we get some players next year.

Matt Kenton 13 years, 9 months ago

One more thing...Is anyone else tired of our players always jawing with the refs after a call?I don't always know what they're saying, and a lot of the refs seem to participate in the dialog just as much, but I don't like it. I don't mind asking a question, but don't whine or complain to the refs. Just play your game.

easyfive 13 years, 9 months ago

Why did the refs decide to be the 6th and 7th man for MU? It is not who the better team is, but "Who do the refs want to win." Why can't we have honest officiating? "I am very happy with the team this year!" Why do you guys talk to MU people that write on this site? Did you read the signs?"Don't feed the trolls"

Hawkin8r 13 years, 9 months ago

That officiating crew really sucked but we could have (should have) overcome their impact to the game. I really thought Misery was better than they showed last night. The worst part was that we gave away a very winnable game by not scoring a field goal for about 7 minutes in the 2nd half. Having rivals storm the court is a factor of our success, so I'll take that kind of environment any day over the alternative. I've got someone at work who put up a 3x5 poster of the KSU court after beating KU last year. I had to chuckle when I saw it but laughed even harder when I put up my Championship stuff - there is just no comparison! It was an emotional win for them and I can understand the court storm, but to hang up a poster of FINALLY beating someone at home after 24 years of domination (!!!!) is pretty pathetic IMO. We need to start our streak up again and show Franky what reloading a team is all about. Let's keep this train rolling!

Matt Bowers 13 years, 9 months ago

Although the fans were classless and (screw) Mizzou will always have an inferiority complex when it comes to KU, the most embarassing thing last night was MC Morris and his technical foul. That was the ultimate in low class plays and unacceptable in a KU uniform. Mentally I wonder if he is capable of handling the college game. He intended to make contact with that ref, he did, he was "T'ed" up, and momentum switched. It is going to be difficult to forget that and don't think for one moment that the refs in the league are going to forget. He should be suspended for at least one game and apologize for his actions.

JayCeph 13 years, 9 months ago

I don't fault Cole for either. I thought he got off a good look (albeit a frantic one).I will pick apart that last possession because, as a fan, that is what I am not paid to do.I certainly hope we will be better because of it. Every loss hurts...

Joshua Hann 13 years, 9 months ago

Wow, I'm sorry to say that I cheer for the same team as some of you. I absolutely can not stand fans who believe that every single call should go there way because its there favorite team. IGNORANT! The refs had nothing to do with the outcome of this game. The refs did not force the Jayhawks to miss shots, to play sloppy defense, to throw the ball away to Mizzou over and over. Quit making excuses for them. They got beat. They are a young team who figured this game was over at halftime and quit playing as hard as they could. It happens. Did anyone catch the play with Travis where he split the defenders in the middle of the lane and went up for an un-contested lay-up and a foul was called on Mizzou? Don't see anyone complaing about the ones that went KU's way. And all of you that think you can do a better job than Self, explain why you are sitting at a computer typing that instead of coaching at some big time program. Good lord people. Join Mizzou fans if you are going to be like that. KU fans are better than that. They lost. Move on and hope for a butt-whoopin' Saturday and AFH West. Rock-Chalk....

itstherock04 13 years, 9 months ago

Alright, so we lost to Mizzou. To be honest, I almost threw up when the game finally ended. Hell, writing that first sentence took me a couple of minutes. It's just a terrible loss, not to mention it ruins our perfect Big 12 record. But let's be honest here; there's plenty of silver lining to be had. First of all, as much as getting beat by the worst team on earth sucks, the Border War is back in its mid-90's glory, which is at least entertaining. KU vs. MU games just arn't as good when one team gets blown out. Ok, seeing MU get blown away is really, really fun, but you get my drift. Secondly, we have a young team. Going into the game, I was worried that the young guys wouldn't appreciate just how big this game was. Personally, I was very impressed by the effort alot of the freshmen and sophmores gave, ESPECIALLY Tyrel Reed. There's no question that these guys can play with heart, and the next few years will show that.In the end, yes we should have won. The back court press just wore us down, and Aldrich didnt have the best game. For now, we have to concentrate on getting to the tournament. Not making it to the big dance will hurt much more than losing to Mizzou, especially if they make the tourney (I can't believe I'm saying that), Rock Chalk, and we'll definately see Mizzou later.

itstherock04 13 years, 9 months ago

o and people, please stop complaining about the Mizzou fans storming the court. You all know you would have too if we would have won at home. Grow up.

Rick Arnoldy 13 years, 9 months ago

Jayceph, while I don't disagree entirely, what Coach did is what just about every coach does. The thought is that you only have to play lockdown defense for about 10 seconds. Otherwise, you open up the opportunity for a breakdown in your defense.

tominkc 13 years, 9 months ago

I can't remember the last time our students stormed the court. Anyone else remember? I know they definitely wouldn't have done it against MU.

Rick Arnoldy 13 years, 9 months ago

itstherock04, I've seen some pretty big victories in AFH but don't think I've ever seen the fans storm the court. We're the hunted, not the hunters.Other than that, I like to see Misery have just enough success that it really feels good to smack'em back down. There's no fun in beating up on a cupcake. There's a LOT of fun in beating up on Misery when they think they have a chance. Can't wait until 3/1.

blindrabbit 13 years, 9 months ago

JJJJJhok is right, Bill will get more out of this loss than a win; what better motivation! But the real screw-up was the coach himSELF; allowing that 2nd half turn-around to continue was as bad a coaching job I've seen in a long time. Missouri to their credit played a great defense causing many of the KU mistakes; but most of the problem was KU (it) themselves. Continuing to play the mistake prone youngsters while keeping Reed and Morningstar on the sidelines during the slide was questionable. Cole is great on the defensive end by why the need to floor the ball prior to many of his close-in shots on the offensive end? Oh well; we're still ahead 166-94

JayCeph 13 years, 9 months ago

ohioburg, If Miz broke down our defense and found themselves open before they wanted to be, they would have been forced to take the open shot. If they miss, great! We might get the rebound. If they make it, great! We have more time on the clock to get the ball under our basket and try for the tying shot to send the game into OT. I just understand why any coach would let the opposing team dictate the final possession of the game according to their preferred time frame.By pressing, the Jayhawks force the Tigers out of their preferred flow and that is what allows for the organic nature of the game to move back in KU's favor.

Joshua Hann 13 years, 9 months ago

blindrabbit, the coach can't get out there and force the players to play with there heads on right. You think he was seriously just sitting back and seeing what happened? Someone is always going to lose. Last night was the Jayhawks turn. He did what he thought was right. Once again, if it was as easy as you say, you wouldn't be blindrabbit, you'd be Head Coach blindrabbit.

pmohr13 13 years, 9 months ago

as much as i hate to say it, we needed to lose a game like that. Winning all the close games when we lead big teaches us nothing about closing out games. Maybe this is the best loss that could happen, not only should they be upset that they lost a big lead, but they lost it to mu, maybe that will teach them faster to get that killer instinct that most young players lack.

rawkhawk 13 years, 9 months ago

I'm still smarting from the game; had to concede defeat to Mizzou coworker. Mizzou played a great 2nd half and is coming along as a team. In some ways, good to see the rivalry come back to life, although I miss the Snyder days. KU's tendency to drop the 2nd half has been a consistent concern all year (Ariz, Syracuse, etc.). I'm hoping this will be a "good" loss; right now it sucks.The youth, veterans, and coaching staff should all be holding up the mirror to keep this from happening as KU finishes conference play. Two other points of hope: 1) KU is still 3rd and has a chance to win an increasingly tough Big 12 conference (like seeing the Big 12 North gain in power); 2) if yesterday's loss is the worse thing in my life, perhaps life ain't so bad? I hope KSU pays the price Saturday!

JayCeph 13 years, 9 months ago

KU is second in the conference standings. Not third.

pmohr13 13 years, 9 months ago

if we win out we still win the Big XII, faith is in our own hands.

Brian Correll 13 years, 9 months ago

Sherron=not enough composure when it counts. Out of control on several occassions. Free throws really hurtCole=needs the ball more but also needs to learn what to do with it. Stop bringing the ball down and make the move quicker. Stop waiting for the double. The mask is killing him.Brady M=disappearing act against Mizzou Steady D but not aggressive on OTyrel=overall not bad but couldnt drain the crucial 3's this time. Tired?Mario L=clutch but many mistakes throughout the game, Too many foulsMorrris Twins=soft around the hoop, nothing on the perimeter, lack of strengthAll this being said, KU has been much better than advertised so far this season and if everyone returns (unlikely) will be a contender next year. I see Collins testing the waters but Cole should not even think about it. Should Collins depart we better hope that our incoming or incumbent PG position is one that will be able to create for others becasue Collins is the only person that presently has that ability. Taylor is OK but doesnt seem to be able to pull up under control often enough or distribute under pressure well enough. Morningstar/Reed should remain on the wings as neither has the handles to be effective getting in the lane or to the hoop.

Brad Farha 13 years, 9 months ago

Gotta give credit to the Mizzou players and fans. We had our chances, but they were tougher in the last 10 minutes. While I'm not happy with the result, it was awesome to see all of our kids playing their hearts out on the floor. No loss is a good loss, but hopefully we learn something from this and are ready the next time we face them.In the meantime, we follow this up with the 2nd most hostile crowd for us on Saturday. Let's be ready for the Wildcats!Rock Chalk Jayhawk KU!!!

tominkc 13 years, 9 months ago

dosetime83, tell me when KU stormed the court against MU. Even if it's true, and I don't think it is, I doubt it happened when both teams were ranked and KU was a 4 point favorite.Also - you can't come up with anything more clever than "gayhawk"?

kvskubball 13 years, 9 months ago

Sure, I hate the outcome, but what a great game! The intensity was super. Our young team came out and got behind early in the first half, in a really ugly first four minutes, and then locked into the game in the first half. The second half we did lose our intensity and toward the end we ran out of gas, but with a big lead and the intensity of the first half, the second half was almost to be expected.Stop with the whining at the refs. I can think of 4 plays that they maybe got wrong. The inbounds play really looked like the ref started counting when Brady picked up the ball on the court. The five second call was blown because after 3 seconds there was seperation, and the call where they had to confer on whether it was a charge or block. If you're not sure, then it should be a block, IMO. The other blown call that I remember was the foul on Lawrence when TRel drove to the basket. On the replay it didn't even look like Lawrence touched him. Only four plays in 40 minutes isn't bad folks. You should try reff'ing a game played at this pace....We were the team with less experience, but we played the first half like we were the experienced team playing at home. I thought that Missuse played tight the first half. We took advantage of it. In the second half they seemed to remember that they were playing at home and played much more relaxed and we tightened up.Our guards play hard, but they don't always play smart, but hey that is part of being an inexperienced team and having Sheron playing the point when he is really a shooting guard, and throwing Tyshawn into the fire as a freshman, and having two guys who work their rears off but are NOT as athletic as many guys they play against-Brady and Tyrel. Good work guys, you're playing hard, just calm down and be a little more patient. Don't have to go 90 miles an hour all the time.The twins are better players than many of you admit. They are freshmen though and freshmen will do stupid things sometimes. I remember Julian Wright going up for the slam and losing the ball in mid air and he came down, splat and I think the ball even hit him on the head. He looked like a complete clown, but that play doesn't mean he wasn't a talented player and he didn't make good plays, he did. This one was sooooo bad it sticks in my memory. We should admit that the twins need work on their attitude-they do! Marcus turned into the ref and stuck his elbow out. Really Big Dumb thing to do. Why? Because refs are human and they do tend to remember those kind of things. Coach did the right thing with setting him. And I agree with the earlier poster. I would be quite happy if upon reviewing the play, Coach sat him for a game. That kind of activity gets the refs, even if unconsciously, against the whole team. It is counter productive. But he's young, he's talented and used to everything going his way. I think he'll growup because of our coaches, teammates, and system.

kvskubball 13 years, 9 months ago

I feel for Cole, he plays hard as he can and then noone gets him the ball for most of the second half...To his credit, he doesn't mope, doesn't complain, and most importantly, he doesn't quit doing everthing else he can to help, rebound, block, running the court...The best play of the night IMO is him hustling back downcourt to block a shot...or was it him blocking-grabbing the ball away...good work. Thanks for playing so hard when others often act like chickens with their heads cut-off. Work on getting that ball back to the outside quicker, though and the double teams will slow down a little, giving you a little more time, that is if the guards can get it back into to you!I don't like to bash, but I do try to mention when I notice things...Coach did let this one go a little the last four minutes. My impression is that he stopped or drastically reduced his substitutions at the end of the game. It was clear that Cole and Sheron were dead-beat tired. He needed to trust his other players more. TRel had a very good first half and Reed was great. Where were they at the end? If we can get someone to step-up from the bench at the end of a game it will make others relax because they won't feel such pressure to have to be "the one" to make a play. Or just to give them a minutes rest so they have something left at the end, it would help. Well, needless to say that Coach doesn't make too many mistakes and he usually learns from those he makes, so hey, everyone should be allowed a mulligan!Now I'm going to go watch the game again. Dish TV is great. Though I doubt the outcome will change, rats!Sorry for the length, but it was a great game to comment on!

ttownjhawk 13 years, 9 months ago

Is anyone else tired of collins driving the lane hoping and praying whatever he throws up happens to go in. He has no control half the time. Other big complaint is that when is Self actually going to show some emotion...when is he going to call a timeout and rip into these guys...stop the momentum!!!

Blake Brown 13 years, 9 months ago

Shades of Syracuse and UMass games where we were to learn how to finish off a team we have down. We do that and we are 22-2, not 19-5. We lose as a team and we win as a team. Numerous bad decisions on all parts. Momentum breakers involved the twins on 3 occasions, the last being where Kief takes the ball to the basket late [and misses the layup] when we need to run time off the clock and they come back and score. Poor execution of a great game plan by Self. Sherron, Tyshawn and Brady made terrible passes either resulting in TOs or putting a teammate in a bad position. Cole has got to get his feet set before putting up a shot. He started the game with 3 shots being off balance. How does Sherron miss 2 from the line? Were his legs gone? If so, is his conditioning to be questioned? Admittedly, he played alot of minutes and fatigue was probably an issue with most, but to miss both.... Our D at the end was atrocious. Cole almost makes an unbelievable last second shot and he had contact which of course, the refs would not call..Get over it, as I and many others on this post will do, learn and grow, move on to KSU with greater intensity and hold the image of us winning the Big Xll, the tournament and going deep into the NCAA.Rock Chalk!

ttownjhawk 13 years, 9 months ago

not sure what game you were watching. there was plenty of emotion in that arena...just not from our coach. never did i see a timeout to slow things up. never did i see him rip into a player/players for the 27 TO's. the only time i saw him show some was on the no brainer call of 5 second call. but just my opinion.

theno1kufan 13 years, 9 months ago

Wensday, Thursday, Friday, who's ready to run some laps? Marcus I know you're out there!

jdgriff12 13 years, 9 months ago

I agree the Cole was ignored a bit by the guards. But when they did feed him the ball, his offense consists of his jump hook and that's it. He has no other post moves as of late. When he's going against 6'8" guys, he should be able to get over them with more moves than just a jump hook. My guess is that Jeff Withey is tearing him up in practice and wearing on Cole's confidence in his is ability to score. Any takers?

Theutus 13 years, 9 months ago

When are people gonna focus on Collins terrible play. As far as I'm concerned, he's had 1 overall solid game this year. Thats it. The rest has been a series of flashy plays (which half the time are pure lucky rolls), and a TON of turnovers and forced awful shots.I think it's time we hand the team over to a REAL leader. Not someone who thinks they have 10 times the talent they actually do. Collins is a fantastic role player, who can sub in/out and really pick up the pace of the game and burn teams on the fast break... but thats the extent of it.When all is said and done, Collins just doesn't have the mental part of the game that is required of TRUE team leaders...

SCHNBALL 13 years, 9 months ago

Coach hit the most important point, we quit attacking! This team is great when they attack, but too many times late in the game we make one or two passes maybe,before the shot clock is at 10 seconds. Sherron was up the court on many of the possessions late when MU was pressing, that I do not understand. We will put 40 minutes together on a consistent basis.

Milhawkee 13 years, 9 months ago

I hope Cole gets his new mask soon. Did you see how much he was picking at it?

thedudelovesKU 13 years, 9 months ago

hopefully this showed the young guys how important it is to bring your A-game in this rivalry

jayhawker0911 13 years, 9 months ago

The game was complete crap. That's one of the top 5 worst reffing jobs I have ever seen in my life. For one thing they called nearly four times as many fouls on us in the second half. The call against morningstar who was attacking the basket sideways and the mizzou player slid underneath him was BOGUS. Secondly, the marcus morris incident was completely unintentional. In no way did he intentionally shoulder the referee. Walking toward the bench in frustration at the completely crap call made by the refs, that ref walked right into his arm and then called HIM for the technical. BOGUS! Thirdly, the five second call - 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand, 3 one thousand, and then he punches the air at lightning quick pace seeing as how we were about to throw in the ball and calls the five second. Those refs gave KU 3 OFFENSIVE fouls out of five given in the first FOUR minutes of the second half. Final free throw count shows that missouri doubled our free throw shots in the second half - us already at 10+ when they had five. While it is true that KU guards gave up turnovers, they also got royally screwed by those referees. In the last five minutes of the game, those referees called Missouri for nothing short of murder. Of course we gave up turnovers, but seriously those refs bailed Missouri out to the EXTREME. And that lucky bounce at the buzzer by taylor was just that - LUCK. I was personally embarrassed when the Missouri fans stormed the court. How embarrassing to be totally and completely bailed out an ENTIRE HALF and still to only win by 2 freaking lucky points at the buzzer off an outer rim, backboard bounce. How embarrassing and sad do you have to be to actually storm the floor of a game in which you won by two points after getting the ball HANDED to you every possession. Congratulations Missouri, you beat us at home by two after probably close to 20 fouls called on KU in one half. But you're right, it was a GREAT win - whatever to anyone who thinks that if the refs were halfway fair that KU would have come out below Missouri on that game is just ignorant.

jayhawker0911 13 years, 9 months ago

oh and theutus - you are obviously really arrogant and stupid to believe for one second that Collins is even remotely being raised up. Yes, it's true that last night he had a bad game, but seriously he's probably the best guard in the Big 12 and for you to even comment that he is not a true team leader just means one thing - and that is that you probably don't know the sport of basketball, so maybe next time line up some facts to support your idiotic comments.

siukufan1 13 years, 9 months ago

That was a terrible second half.....however...I guess I'll be the first one to state that I am starting to see a sloppy trend of poor officiating in these huge nationally televised games. Come on, I watched that 5 second call on Reed 7 times and it was only 3 seconds, then you have the inbounds pass that even the ESPN announcers counted out and the ball was out well before the 5 seconds not to mention if you take another look at it the ref starts the count before we even get the ball. I also felt that there were a lot of tacky foul calls on both sides. I feel like sports are starting to be slightly setup for those exciting finishes. Its like somebody wants to keep all the games close. However, we do have a young team that has far excited my expectations and this lose will only serve as a learning experience.

Theutus 13 years, 9 months ago

jayhawker your need to face the facts... Collins isn't half as good as people make him out to be. I don't say it to be mean, i say it because i'm a realist.A team leader doesn't ignore his teamates multiple times over. A team leader should play SMARTER than the rest of the team. Pumping your fists and getting excited when you pull off a terrible off-balance rushed shot doesn't count as "leadership". Collins stops hustling on plays all the time, usually after one of his turnovers. I've already seen more true leadership ability out of Little than I've seen out of Collins all year.And I don't know anything about leadership? I played college baseball, semi-pro baseball, and was a Marine for 4 years... I know more about "leadership" than most... I'm not saying Collins can't be a fantastic role player on this team, but he's not the "go-to" intelligent guy we need actually leading the team. I've given him the benefit of the doubt up until now, but he's just not doing the job. It's time for Self to start enforcing limits on him.

NewtonJHawk 13 years, 9 months ago

The only reason the Missery kitty cats won is because of that horrid moving screen call on Sherron at the end of the game!!! Are you kidding me refs. I called it at the beginning of the game, it would come down to who got shafted on moving screens!! Call me Nostradamus!!!Also thanks to those that came to my place last night for drinks/the game. the more the merrier this weekend for the K-Suck game.NewtonJHawk

c0bra 13 years, 9 months ago

Royaljayhwk,I watched that Releford layup a couple times on the playback because I didn't see where the foul was either. It looked uncontested because the Mizzou player on the camera side spun away, but the other Mizzou player stepped in at the last second and probably got a slap in. Releford's body was in-between the camera and him, though, so you couldn't see exactly what was happening. Anyways, not an awful call, but awful defense on MU's part.

eddiesuttonschoolofdriving 13 years, 9 months ago

while we're piling on the refs -and deservedly so, how bout when Reed made that great steal and drove hard to the other end for a lay-up? he got hammered on the head and no foul was called - a clear "and one" situation

lance1jhawk 13 years, 9 months ago

If were goona b!#ch about the officiating then lets not forget that last shot by Zaire Taylor should have been a traveling call and the bucket should not have counted. I have looked at several times now, and he walked. The fact of the matter is that KU should have never been in the position to lose that game. This young team needs to be able to take another teams best shot and respond. Last night we took MethZZura's beating and never responded. These guys will have to learn how to finish games, and finish runs off, and I think this loss should help motivate them in that regard. Bill Self will make sure of that.

Theutus 13 years, 9 months ago

drgnslayr I don't disagree with handing him the keys to the team early on. What i'm saying is that at this point having him run the team is really seems to be hurting us. I've seen large shifts in momentum when he goes on a 3 possession turnover spree, or throws up forced contested shots multiple possessions in a row without so much of a look at a teamate (much less a pass).I think we would be a lot better team if we consistently had Morningstar/Reed/Taylor bringing up the ball. (And yes, i realize Taylor has had a lot of turnovers lately, but that is part of the learning process). Collins has had ample opportunity to step up his mental game, and just hasn't.I think Collins role on the team is best played as the sub in/out guy, who comes in and out of the game constantly to sprint the court. He simply can't hold onto the ball, or handle the mental aspect of being the true PG on this team, as he's shown consistently all year. Can he do the job? Yeah he can do it. Can he excel at it? Half a season down, and he's only had 1 overall quality game.Have his offensive numbers been good? Sure, but look at all his attempts. Then turnovers. I'd rather see Morningstar numbers. We have one of the best bigs in the nation, and we rarely feed him the ball. I'll take a consistent and intelligent PG who plays within his means over the "i think i'm Michael Jordan" mentality any day.Again, I think he should be getting plenty of minutes, but not in the 1 spot.

Theutus 13 years, 9 months ago

Sorry for the spelling/grammar mistakes fellas, i'm in the middle of a lot of work and trying to type things up as fast as possible.

tigerfann1 13 years, 9 months ago

Offensive production was low for both squads, uncharacteristically so. Will be interesting to see how both squads react in their next games, respectively. I am still stunned that Mizzou only scored 16 points in the first half and ended up with a W. Sidenote: With Bill Self and Mike Anderson both being so low key, does anybody else long for the vitriol on the sidelines between Roy and Norm? Norm hated Kansas so badly that he would have the team sleep in a hotel room on the Missouri side, would not allow his players to spend any money in Kansas, and immediately after the game, they would get on the bus so they could buy dinner in Missouri on the way back. Now that is a rivalry. Good times. Glad the good guys won this one. Been a long time coming. Expect more of the same KU fans. Looks like Anderson isn't going anywhere for awhile - unless of course he departs for Georgia or Alabama.

JayViking 13 years, 9 months ago

Theutus, you're exactly right about Collins.

Vic Janeway 13 years, 9 months ago

i saw the coach letting sherron stay in too long, he was tired and started screwing up, I think coach should have put Taylor in there at the end, they needed some energy to finish and Sherron did NOT have it.

Vic Janeway 13 years, 9 months ago

PS, these types of loses have happened before, this IS good for them!

BCRavenJHawkfan 13 years, 9 months ago

Congratulations tigerfann.Every dog gets his day in the sun every now and then.Keep in mind this game had plenty of so called controversy.Seeing as how we were most likely going to have to win in Norman anyway, this loss may just be a blessing.I would say this though, if you were going to go to AFH for the rematch I would wear the brass jock strap, you will need it!

yellowjayhawk 13 years, 9 months ago

Royaljayhwk,How can you say that the refs had nothing to do with the outcome of this game?In general, yes, perhaps people complain too much about the officiating.But when the ref calls a five second penalty before three seconds are even up, and MU gets points off of that call, how can you say they are not interfering?

JayhawkLova7 13 years, 9 months ago

Going back to Sherron Collins. Yeah he makes some stupid bone head mistakes, he drives constantly which really gets on my nerves when it comes down to crunch time. He is the best 'leader' we have on the team. Everyone is going to make mistakes, everyone has their flaws. But on the other side of things. Sherron has been there, he makes some great plays when we need him. I mean who remembers his steal in the National Championship game? He hangs tough out there on the court. He didn't have a very good game last night and I am sure he is beating himself up about it. Collins is a good player.Tyshawn Taylor has his moments where you just want to ask him, "What were you thinking?" But thats the freshman mistakes we all are going to have to live with. Then he comes back out on the court and makes an amazing move in mid-air, he shows glimpses of greatness and that is a good sign.

jayhawkfan78 13 years, 9 months ago

Ok...last night sucked...no other way to put it but put it into perspective that for Mizzou..that is like their final four. They never get to the tournament let alone a National Championship. KU fans have to remember becasue we our KANSAS we get everyones best shot every night. We are a basketball powerhouse, a program rich with tradition and with that comes alot of responsiblities...not only for the players but for the fans too. So Jayhawk nation..hold your heads high and remember losses are hard to take (we don't have to go through them to often)..this will only make our guys stronger and give them much needed experience come March. Also, remember when last years team were freshmen and all the dumb things they did then...but look what happened. Be patient and I think Coach Self will have us cutting down the nets way before the 20 years it took between '88 and '08!!!! ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK!!!!

jaybate 13 years, 9 months ago

In a close game, you can point at every person on the team and the coach and find a one mistake, which if not made, would have tipped the balance. I don't think its very fruitful, because you can't undo the past with these insights. The useful thing is to look at these mistakes and say, "Which ones can you avoid next time?" The experience of this game, I believe, will make most players learn from these mistakes.A coach, however, one who has been through the mill many times now, as Self has, has to look at the mistakes he makes even harder. Why? Because his experience means he should have known better. It implies a blind spot that will require a bit of extra work on his part.Way back up in the thread, JayCeph nailed one mistake Self made in the last ten seconds. I agree: you don't let'em walk it up court. You slow them down, so they have fewer seconds to get the last shot. They can't beat you if they don't have the time to get a good shot. And a foul or a break away gives you last shot. You're ALWAYS playing the clock at the end, whether ahead, tied or behind.Self may have made another error in not full court zone pressing Missouri at about 3 minutes into the second half for about three minutes to take them out of their rhythm, and to try to break their backs early. I assume he figured his team, on one day's rest, did not have the resources to go for the kill at that point and then finish strong, too.All well and good, Coach, but if you saw the game as a resource conservation game, you missed the boat by not zoning half court for the middle five minutes of each half.As soon as Coach Self knew the Twins couldn't cut it in a full court game, and he effectively knew this by the mid point of the first half, he knew he was short handed against a pressing team that was deeper and in better shape with a KU team playing on a days rest. It followed logically he had to buy five minutes of defensive rest in each half to have a prayer of keeping KU fresh for the stretch. And MU shooting poorly made going zone for 5 minutes, or as long beyond that as the lead would hold make even more sense. But he didn't do it.Why not?

jaybate 13 years, 9 months ago

I can't answer that conclusively. The best guess I can make is that he was trying to split the difference. They don't have the resources to press, but they do have the resources to play half court man to man without resorting to zone in the half court. I generally dislike difference splitting decisions on strategy questions, because it generally implies that leadership does not really believe in its own assumptions, or that it is admitting it doesn't know the critical thing it needs to know.It seems to me Coach Self had to make a choice. My team lacks the resources to attack a whole game against this pressing team, in which case all strategy should aim at milking what resources you have in order to maximize them down the stretch.Or Coach Self had to tell himself: my team has the resources to attack all game.What he decided was: my team has the resources to attack only in a half court defensive scheme all game.This decision of his allowed his team neither the opportunity to crush MU when we had a sizeable lead early in the second half, nor did it leave his team with maximum resources to play a last second game. Put another way, it left KU with the worst of both worlds, even though it succeeded in getting them very close to a win. Coach Self and Eddie Ballers generally are prone to accepting such strategic ambiguities, because Eddie Ball is a take what they give us, reactive, judo like strategy. It is not either or. It is what ever is dictated to us, whatever the circumstances of our resources are, take it and use it against the opponent. It is a good strategy.But no strategy is perfect.Coach Self's acceptance of the ambiguity of resource conservation and need to attack, and not one or the other, lead KU into an unfortunate last few minutes.But in fact, it was a last second shot that decided it and there were a bundle of TOs before that time and Coach Self is very likely to say: my strategy was sound. It was player's not attacking in the half court offense and turning the ball over under pressure of the press that was the problem.

jaybate 13 years, 9 months ago

Leaders often reach such conclusions that allow them to perpetuate their philosophies in strategy. That does not mean they are right.A good case can be made that the reason they were not attacking is because Coach Self followed a strategy of limited attack, at best.Eddie Ball, no less than any other kind of ball, requires clear, valid assumptions about the actual circumstances, before it can engage effectively in strategic judo and strategic ambiguities with fruitfulness.The valid assumption, after the Twins proved not up to the task was: my team is officially short handed for a pressing game, so, this is a resource conservation game to be decided in the last three minutes of the second half.Every Eddie Ball move consistent with that assumption would have lead to a team with some resources at the end of the game, regardless of how ambiguous or counter intuitive it may have seemed to make the moves necessary.And KU might still have lost.There are no guarranties.But you have to stick with your philosophy, AND you have operate with sound assumptions, or everything really just becomes a matter of luck, good or bad. I'm betting the next time Coach Self encounters this kind of situation, there is a better than even chance you'll see him zoning at the mid point of each half, even if it does cost them a lead for awhile.And he'll have the team in better shape.And he'll have them protecting the ball better. :-)Ah, its is a great game. Infinitely complex and vexingly simple simultaneously.

SCHNBALL 13 years, 9 months ago

great thoughts jaybate, but I think this really came down to our lack of any offensive ball movement for a 3 to 6 minute span. This is only the problem I see with the hawks offense year after year. Same situation happened last year in the final, around the same time as last night. If we solve this issue, we can be as solid defensively as anyone in the country, if the twins show up. Collins must find a way to get this team in motion when the game gets tight, that does not mean dribbling for 20 seconds and then trying dribble penetration at the 10 second mark.

FairgroveJayhawk 13 years, 9 months ago

No, I am in no way tired of seeing Collins drive the lane and make 75% of what he attempts, he rocks and I look forward to it every time. Man's got some skills baby yeah!So the fighter jet was running on a cessna engine last night and had a freshman stat line. As a team we only have 2.5 consistent scorers and two didn't show up at their normal superhero level. None of my mizzou acquaintances bothered to call and rub it in because they know how fortunate misery was to win and what will happen 3/1 and again in the big 12 tournament. poor tigres

jayhawker_97 13 years, 9 months ago

kudos for Aldrich's block party! good productive minutes from Travis. good 1st half.1 loss, so what. HCBS said it all....what happened aside from being jerked around by the refs, also noticing coach Self's half-court trap -which is good, but too risky if you leave your man open without any backups under the basket!! and yes, Brady made lazy passes. he'll need to overcome that mistake over2 again.Cole needs help inside (as many have mentioned):- scoring: guards need to just throw the ball up there - let Cole just pick it up and dunk it in the air, more like lob passes - too many forced driving is not good if refs already give the slapping hands ok.. - escaping: seems like he trips too often when trying to pass the ball against =>2 defenders, help!!!- scoring again: pass inside plz. we've seen aggressive offensive from the team but they got to be able to change direction/pass the ball once they got swarmed by >2 defenders.. 101.tough luck with the refs! that's the only complaint i can't live with. i'd say HCBS will adjust our defense style - if Misery gets away with defense that shoulda been a foul play - let's give them an eye for an eye: 7 steals is not bad to start with!very sure KU will not let next game against Misery slip away 1 more time. ditto to KU win by-10 or more at AFH. ro00000000000oooock chAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaalk!!

ryanfox 13 years, 9 months ago

Oh man would it be nice to win the aggregate by 20-30 points...

Martin Rosenblum 13 years, 9 months ago

Jaybate-I understand the concept of strategery (SNL reference). I also respect that some leaders perpetuate their philosophies to prove discipline and are mioptic in following a straight line. There needs to be compromise in order to coach and to instill a sense of the end more than the means. If the same game plan were used regardless of the diverse conditions and scenarios, a very predictable outcome could be seen very easily. I doubt if you are condoning the blind "marching into the sea" perpetuation of principles and phiosophies. I also doubt if Self is taking the position that he set the plan and it wasn't followed, therefore, he would have prevailed. He has always accepted his share of blame and reacted with class. Whichever style, Okieball or whatever, coaching today's players is a new challenge and no coach should be wrapped up in old ideals. Flexibility has to be the rule, not the exception

100 13 years, 9 months ago

I agree with tigerfann.Even though he doesnt understand the pull towards the West, whether it be by website or real life, he's slowly turning into a Jayhawk before our eyes.That's the best part of the loss: tigerfann's reincarnation.Make sure you hit Allen Fieldhouse when you come to town. It's a good place for good, non hateful people like yourself.Rock Chalk tigerfann.

Joshua Hann 13 years, 9 months ago

Yellowjayhawk, ignorance is spewing from you. Once again, 27 turnovers was the story of the game here. Do you realize KU still was leading with what all of you are calling a badily reffed game? You are just making excuses for them. They got beat. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. They fell apart. The refs didn't kick the ball out of there hands and give it to Missouri. KU had there chances and they blew it. Be angry with them, not the refs. That's just ridicoulous. You can only get mad at what you can control. Get over the refs for crying out loud.

Tony Bandle 13 years, 9 months ago

KUMatt2001..are you maybe confusing JayCeph with Jaybate?? Both are excellent posters but totally different [and length of] stylesJayCeph..where you been, dude. I don't think I've seen your posts for awhile. Tomin_kc...I've been a KU fan for 43 years and the only games that could qualify were the 150+ -96 Kentucky massacre and the great comeback game against UCLA and even then, I'm not sure. What's even more impressive about the court thing is that there is minimal security even required to prevent it.tigerfann.....when it comes to the MU/KU rivalry, it's hard to be dispassionate and fair-minded , but your post came about as close as I've ever seen. Go back a couple of days on this site and you'll get a whole history of the rivalry's origins. That being said, I still am looking forward to the Hawks beating the brains out of the Tigers in Allen.100...I am totally onboard with your stance on Jeff and Cole on the floor at the same time for next season because this game showed how impossible it would be to cover two, mobile 7 footers at the same time.With a win in Manhattan on Saturday, by Valentine's Day KU is 20-5, in the top 25, is still in contention for the Big 12 crown and looks to be a lock for the NCAA. JEMINY CRICKETS, folks, wouldn't that have looked fantastic back in August??!!ENJOY THE RIDE!!!!!

tigerfann1 13 years, 9 months ago

Regarding fan support, you have to remember that Missouri has the Chiefs, Rams, Cardinals, Royals, Blues, Northwest Missouri, Missouri State, SEMO, UMSL, among other sports outlets in addition to Mizzou. Sorry there aren't enough people wanting to live in your sorry state to support all of that. A lot easier to sell out when that is all your state has to go to for entertainment.

JayhawkLova7 13 years, 9 months ago

Ha, your funny tigerfann1. I may be a KU fan threw and threw but I am also a total Royals and Chiefs fan. Lets get serious. I hate the Rams and the Cardinals. Speaking for myself, just because I am a Jayhawk fan does not mean I am not a Chiefs or Royals or any other fan of any other team in any different sport. In College Basketball I just love the Jayhawks, in baseball I love the Royals and so on. I have been to numerous Royals and Chiefs games.

100 13 years, 9 months ago

Tigerfann -- as always nice stuff. You will feel anger for a few more posts, could be many weeks, until you accept your true calling. This is normal & expected behavior. Don't worry about it. We don't (and won't) take it personal. Keep posting. Your anger that is beginning to present itself is simply part of the five stages of acceptance. You are, at heart, a Jayhawk...And we all like you and support you...Oakville -- you couldn't be more correct. Next year's starting 4 & 5 are going to be a load to cover. That MU game cemented it for me too. You can contain one (like they did with Cole). But there's no way you can contain both Withey & Aldrich when they're out there together. It's like "free points" everytime down the court.I'm glad you see the logic in this. Certainly Self is drooling every day in practice thinking about next year's dunkfest...Rock Chalk Oakville

John Randall 13 years, 9 months ago

[quote]Why can't Missouri fans act like they have been there before and keep themselves from storming the court? That shows no class at all, however, Missouri has always lacked class![/quote]If they did, you could another reason to ridicule. Hang in there. I have faith in you.

Tony Bandle 13 years, 9 months ago

Watching UConn, Duke and North Carolina battle it out shows that KU has a ways to go before being truly elite. That's the bad news. The good news is we'll have probably 9 of our top 10 back plus add Withey, Johnson and Robinson, that's a 12 man rotation.To put it in perspective, think of the 2009 season as the exhibition schedule prior to the National Championship Drive of 2010!!!

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