Wednesday, November 26, 2008

A foul setback

Free-throw woes doom Jayhawks

Disappointed faces fill the Kansas bench in overtime as the game slips away to Syracuse Tuesday, Nov. 25, 2008 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.

Disappointed faces fill the Kansas bench in overtime as the game slips away to Syracuse Tuesday, Nov. 25, 2008 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.


— There’s something about Syracuse’s basketball team that turns Kansas University’s players into bricklayers from the free-throw line.

“Yeah, I’ve heard the history,” KU sophomore center Cole Aldrich said, referring to the Jayhawks making just 12 of 30 free throws in the 2003 NCAA title game loss to the Orange.

“It’s not quite the best history. We were hoping to change it around. Tonight we weren’t able to,” Aldrich said after the Jayhawks made 11 of 20 charities in an 89-81 overtime loss to the Orange in the finals of the CBE Classic at Sprint Center.

The 6-foot-11 Aldrich actually made five of six free throws; his teammates made six of 14.

However, Aldrich’s big miss, which followed a make with 19.2 seconds left, kept the Jayhawks’ lead at three points, 72-69. It allowed the Orange an opportunity to tie, which Jonny Flynn did by hitting a three from the side over Aldrich with six seconds left.

That three, followed by a Sherron Collins 14-foot miss at :02, forced overtime, which the Orange won handily, 17-9.

“I guess it’s how the ball rolls,” said Aldrich, who finished with 16 rebounds and 15 points. “The one I missed was a tough one. It could have made it a four-point game. The ball just didn’t go in. It’s how basketball goes sometimes.

“It could have made the game end there,” he added of his charity miss. “We shouldn’t have found ourselves in that situation. Syracuse kept fighting. It’s a tough one to swallow.”

KU led by a game-high 13 points (51-38) with 15:21 left. However, the Orange used a 19-5 run to get back in the game and actually grab a 57-56 lead at 8:31.

KU also had a comfy 67-60 lead at 3:51 before the Orange rallied.

“Tough game,” KU coach Bill Self after the Jayhawks saw a nation’s best 16-game winning streak come to an end. “It’s a game we had under control for the most part. We had a couple dry spells, and Syracuse made some big plays down the stretch.

“Our inability to make free throws and put the game away led to them having a great win, because it was a great win for them.”

The star of the game and MVP of the tournament — Flynn — finished with 25 points off 6-of-12 shooting and 11-of-16 free throwing. His big three with six seconds left came with Aldrich guarding him.

Self planned to sub for Aldrich defensively had he made the second free-throw try on the previous KU possession.

“We were switching ball screens. I got switched on,” Aldrich said. “I thought I did a fairly decent job trying to contain him. He got a half step on me, pulled up and hit a tough shot.”

Another big key was Syracuse scoring first in overtime and grabbing the momentum. Arinze Onuaku scored an inside bucket and hit the free throw following a Marcus Morris foul.

KU regained the lead at 76-75 following two clutch Aldrich free throws at 3:08. But Syracuse scored 10 straight points, the Jayhawks committing a turnover on a Marcus Morris pass to Aldrich that was picked off, an airball three from Collins, and missed threes by Reed and Conner Teahan in the stretch.

“We can’t give away three points to start the overtime,” Collins said. “As the leader I feel I let the team down. We made a lot of mistakes you can’t make if you want to beat a team like Syracuse.”

Self noted: “We were in hang-on mode as opposed to attack mode. We had to make some free throws to win the game and didn’t get it done. Last night we made them (15 of 18 in a victory over Washington). Today we didn’t get it done.”

KU will meet Coppin State at 7 p.m. Friday in Allen Fieldhouse.


FlaHawk 14 years ago

I liked the ball movement on offense. Need to get more offensive rebounds and play under control. Typical KU team lacks a 3 point threat and the whole team can not shoot FTs well.A lot of talent and potential. Syracuse was a more experienced team and adapted to game pressure. KU folded like a house of cards.Hawks should get better as a team as season goes on. Can not wait for January and the real season.

Brad Avery 14 years ago

This can be a better team than last year's. More talent in key positions. They failed to adapt to Syracuse's unexpected balll pressure and the refs helped out by tick tacking us on the defensive end and letting the Orange get away with butchery. The baby Jays will learn from this and move on. No such thing as a "good" loss but it was an instructive defeat.

jhawk23 14 years ago

Yes, Sherron, you did let the team down. I was there, and saw you let the team flounder around leader-less. Take this one to heart and do better next time.

Steve Gantz 14 years ago

I lay this one on Sherron Collins too. He started that out of control play in last years championship game when he jacked up that one on three shot that would have tied the game in the last 30 seconds. Last night he had people open all over the place that would have gotten a better look than he got. Doolindalton, "this years team can be better than last years team" is a statement I'm puzzled by. In terms of potential years down the road? Certainly not this year. I'm excited by #15, someone filling in that now revered number with some inspired play. That fast break block Monday should have been a top 10 playApparently too our team will need free throw lessonsThe afterglow of April 7 seems to have taken the sting off last nights loss. Losing a year ago like this would have induced cyanide laced coolaid style posts here.I wish I had a dollar for every Collins style forced layup that we missed yesterday.

Jim Sanders 14 years ago

Collins seemed to think he had something to prove against the other guard and forgot that he has a team that is capable of getting it done without throwing up junk late in the game. Also, what is the deal with Self not playing Releford? At Allen Field House, when Releford comes in, he is instant offense and seems to play good agressive defense. I'd rather see him playing then an uneffective Brady Morningstar.

DrRoach 14 years ago

DrRoach (anonymous) says...The problem with most of you people (KU people) is your completely uninformed? Seemingly low basketball IQ? Bi-polar? Ignorant?We didn't lose due to being out coached. We didn't because the Orangmen are a better team (there not), and not due to most other reasons i have read on here. We mainly due to playing 3 freshmen this early in the season. With all there greatness, (they will be AWESOME come tourney time; with a capitol A baby), come untimely freshmen mistakes, poor second half foul shooting, pissing down there leg when 'Cuse made there run etc. Still, this game we could of overcame that. Mr. Collins, your a different story and you need to keep your head on the team instead of personal showdowns; which you lost tonite. Your lack of mental toughness cost us as Im sure by now you have gotten an in your face ass-chewing.That said, everyone's allowed mistakes, Sherron will right his ship, the freshmen will continue to improve, and the Jayhawks will be a monster in March. I look forward to one hell-of an exciting season.

DrRoach 14 years ago looks like most of you posting on this article have your head in the game, more than I can say for some of the other articles. EXCEPT...this years team does NOT have the potential to be better than last years, lets keep it real.

keith horinek 14 years ago

I thought they played well, however, they just plain ran out of gas with 6 min. left in regulation. when you turn the ball over that much in succession it is a sign of fatigue. collins is good but he can't carry this team for 40 min. the stamina will come as the season progresses. tough loss but a lot of experience was gained.

KUPROUD 14 years ago

Rock Chalk it up to a learning opportunity. The next time we get into a similar situation, handling pressure defense and putting a team away, it will be an interesting test to evaluate. I would also like to see Releford get some minutes, but unless he is a better ball handler and three-point shooter than he's shown to date, I don't think he would have helped much last night.

DrRoach 14 years ago

It's called an upper class-man not playing team ball and freshmen pissing down there leg...fatigue was not a factor.

voygr1 14 years ago

I can not beleive what I am reading!!! This team is miles ahead of last years team in pure talent. We had six great college players last year and all will play for awhile in the NBA or PROs. What I saw was a young team with a leader that lost his poise. Sherron is the leader for now but as time goes on this season Taylor will be a leader at point. As for Brady Morningstar he is probably the hardest working defensive player I have seen in a long time. He doesnt have the quickness of Chalmers or Robinson but he is excellent at moving his feet. As the season goes on his shot will be there. I love what Releford can do and am pulling for him big time...but he needs to handle the ball better and get stronger physically. This is a top ten team before season ends and can be good enough to beat anybody.Whats up with the Henrys now they are recruiting for Memphis. Looks like CJ was really upset when he wasnt guarnteed a spot and time on the Hawks (something you have to earn) so he goes to Memphis recruits his brother and now X is recruiting Cheek. Wheres the loyalty to KU????????

jdwilliam 14 years ago

I know it's got to be right in front of me but I can never seem to find it. Can someone point out where the box score for basketball games is hidden?

DrRoach 14 years ago

Collins IS and Will be the team leader this season, he one of the to 4 or 5 guards in the nation, again keep it real. Yes, they will be a top 10 team, but once again they will NOT be close to last years CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM hopefully you come to terms with yourself on that.

hawkitup 14 years ago

Agreed, DrRoach...this is going to be a good team, but they will not be as good as last years team (at least not this year).

Jacobpaul81 14 years ago

Collins looks like Collins of last year and the year before. He's still the kid who nearly blew the National Championship. He's still the kid whose great at coming off the bench and giving a team spark... once the older guys wear the opponents down. People will slowly realize how truely special Russel Robinson's court composure was. Collins is a great little spark plug, but he doesn't have the composure to run a team. The sooner he's moved to the 2 spot and Taylor steps into the role of floor general, the sooner this Jayhawk team will be truely effective.

truehawkfan 14 years ago

I agree that Collins is one of the top guards in the nation, but his bulldog, showboat, me attitude reaps its ugly head in close games like this. It scares me when he has the ball when the game is close. He lost that game last night. He lost his head. That block that was on top10 today when Collins tried to force one of his crazy layups, Taylor was wide open and Collins won't pas it. Pisses me off. I know Self will help Collins get his head back on. When he is team first, we are a top team. Last night, hopefully, was just a fluke with Collins. I expect that he will learn from last nights tape, watch it over and over, and learn from it. Hard loss, but we will recover. Loads of talent, and a great coach usually equals great teams.

Displayhawk 14 years ago

Learn from the loss, and March ahead!

jchief40 14 years ago

X is NOT recruiting Cheek dipwad

JayhawkPurist 14 years ago

Did anyone notice the de ja vu of last night's game? Had Aldrich (or anyone else) fouled Flynn on the perimeter before he could get a shot off. Why not put him on the line? I'm just glad we made this mistake in a November game instead of an April one.

jchief40 14 years ago

I will say that it's better to lose early and stay grounded. Collins did, no doubt, feel like he had to show up the opposing guard and made stupid mistakes/bad shots + the back to back to back (right?) turnovers. Morris late in the game just gave the ball away trying to make a tough pass in a very crucial drive at that point while it was a two score game. We got lazy on D and they had way to many open three pointers. Teahan needs to cut his hair. Lesson learned though. Do doubt this team has a great deal of talent. I love how they passed the ball well against that zone. Our defense was great in the early going. We missed too many easy shots!! Aldrich is tremendous but he made some goofy shots there that were frustrating to watch. I don't know why the Morris' never take the dunk as tall and athletic as they are - they just need to go up strong for pete's sake. We are not rebounding well either and while Reed made some nice three pointers Morningstar made some gaffs and, sorry to say, with him not being as tall or athletic as some of the other players they have to be near perfect or it ends up being counter-productive IMO. Would have been nice to see Releford in there - I'll trust in Self though. We'll be OK.

John Strayer 14 years ago

I agree with JayhawkPurist...with the way 'Cuse was shooting FTs why not foul as soon as they cross mid-court?

Andy Hess 14 years ago

we've got a really good team here, despite the loss. once they all get the offense and play Bill Self defense, we'll be just fine.

BCRavenJHawkfan 14 years ago

jchief and Purist are right, better to have this loss and the associated problems now rather than in the first round of the conference tournament or the big dance.Someone earlier noted how they started playing a hangon game. I am sure we all remember when even last years players did that as well. That must change. My impression is that Self takes his teams down these roads so they can discover for themselves what it takes.I think what makes this one a little more difficult to take is that it occurred in the East Wing of our House.

David Reed 14 years ago

swishy you also forgot once we get Mario Little into the fold we'll be better then fine.

Robert Lofthouse 14 years ago

the first loss was inevitable; better to lose it to CUSE than one of the next four; J's are intense and when they begin to gel as a team, they will be thrilling! better than the NC team at this stage of their development, but it's early yet; tough lesson to learn, but it's early yet; ya think the coaches will get them through this? 4 cream-puff games coming up against 4-8 mediocre teams, enough to tune up their game before facing down a top 25 squad.. this crew will be back; lessons learned, and contending for the conference championship; that's Bill Self's M.O.; so try encouraging the team rather than trashing youthful mistakes

nocaljayhawk 14 years ago

I felt like they ignored Cole in the post too often, and some of the easy misses right around the hoop hurt, as always.

KUFan90 14 years ago

Good comments here. I too was screaming at the TV to foul Flynn. Under 10 seconds and a 3 point lead you knew his shot was going in. Yes there were some freshmen mistakes and those I can live with, but our junior leader deciding he was going to turn the game into his own personal duel with Flynn is disturbing. Clearly Flynn was trying to get in his head and it worked. Now other teams will see that and will try and do the same. Collins can't let himself be goaded into these kinds of mistakes.I thought the zone kind of lulled the team to sleep. When we were up 13 early in the 2nd half the crowd was quiet, and the team started to look a little lethargic. Boeheim switching to man at that point was a brilliant coaching move. Their aggressiveness at that point stunned us. Won't say that Self got outcoached but our young team wasn't able to respond to a great coaching move by Boeheim.

Drew Bender 14 years ago

jchief40,You are wrong... Do a tiny bit of research before you call somebody out maybe just read the other KUsports articles

justanotherfan 14 years ago

This loss comes down to three things I think.1) Collins did not play well in the second half. He started off playing very well, and we jumped out to a double digit lead. Unfortunately, 'Cuse has Flynn, Devendorf, Harris and others, and that started to wear on Sherron. He tried to step up to the challenge, but did not make plays, then he started really pressing himself, and that lead to more mistakes (three straight turnovers, bad shot selection, etc.). Sherron has to play more within himself.2) Nobody else stepped up. While Sherron's mistakes were pretty obvious, the subplot here is that despite his mistakes, nobody else stepped into the void and made plays. Cole played well, but when we needed a basket to stop the bleeding after 'Cuse closed to four halfway through the second half, we went into the post and Cole missed twice on one possession. Cole was the second best big man on the floor last night, behind Syracuse's big guy. He should have owned that guy. Tyshawn was very good in the first half, but in the second half he was inconsistent and at crunch time I can't remember him making any plays.Tyrel made the three that put us up four after Syracuse took the lead, then I don't remember him making another play. Morningstar got the jumpball on the defensive end with about four minutes left, then I don't remember him making another play. It was as if everyone just stopped making plays and looked to see if Sherron would save us when Syracuse made their push. Last year Rush or Chalmers or Arthur or Kaun or Robinson or Jackson would have stepped up in that situation. This year its Sherron or bust - at least right now.3) Bad matchups, Inexperience. Once Syracuse came out of their zone, I think we should have put a more athletic team on the floor. Syracuse had Flynn, Devendorf, Rautins, Harris and the Onuaku out there. We could have countered with Sherron, Tyshawn, Travis, a Morris twin and Cole. I understand why we stuck with the rotation we had established, but there was a moment when Brady had the ball on the baseline and it was obvious to me that he DID NOT WANT THE BALL. He was looking pass all the way. Not pass to get a better shot, or to move the ball, just pass to get the ball to someone else. I understand that this was the first time that most of the guys on this team were on the floor in crunch time, and it showed. Taylor was a non-factor the last 2 minutes of regulation and OT. Looking at the play by play, the only people that made positive plays the last four minutes of regulation and OT were Sherron, Cole and the Morris twins. No Tyshawn. No Tyrel. No Brady. We need Mario Little desperately, if for no other reason than crunch time minutes.

Drew Bender 14 years ago

Flynn = piece of amazing athlete and competitor Dont be a hater just because he put on a clinic against the young jayhawks... He certainly didnt sound anything like a "thug" during the postgame interview

86finalfour 14 years ago

oljhwk, I wholeheartedly agree. Fatigue was the main factor, in my opinion. Coach Knight mentioned this during the Washington game that the winner of that game gets less rest than Syracuse. Aldrich really banged it up with Washington the night before, and although he made some key shots at the end, I thought he played tired and it showed in some missed shots during the early and middle part of the game. With our three point shooting, if Cole makes his shots, the game is not even close. I'm not saying Cole had a bad game, but his shot wasn't going in like the night before. And Collins plays so many minutes and has so many roles, I think he ran out of gas. The fact is that this team has a shallow bench and relies on two veteran players to play 35+ min. It's no wonder that back-to-back competitive games in November caught up to them. Stamina should improve throughout the season. I thought they played really well and just couldn't close - a common error with inexperience. The talent and potential is there. As much as it hurts to lose to the Orangemen, given the painful history, there were a lot of positives to take away from this game. We need Mario Little! Rock Chalk! *Wow, Taylor is a phenomenal talent. Anyone think that Taylor should play 1 position and Collins the 2 position? Maybe this would save Collins energy a bit? Just a thought.

kufankam 14 years ago

I really like this team... they will grow! Not a horrible loss (all things considered). While Cuse is picked lower in their league, their league is rated as tops in the nation. Let's not forget that young teams just need to learn HOW TO WIN. They will come around and be fun to watch over the next few years.However, this years team is not even close to last years!! That is insane to even mention the possibility. Sure, some of the young guys may have more talent than some of last years guys... but talent is one part and battle tested experience is another. What made Chalmers, Robinson, Rush, Jackson, Kaun and Arthur so special last year is that they had the combination of talent as well as playing in huge games in their career to gain experience. I agree, this group has potential to be very, very great. But this year will not materialize to be as good of a team as last years. That group of experienced talent would beat this group of raw talent by 20 plus easily. There is a reason that guys that are playing significant minutes (Reed, Morningstar) did not touch the court last year, last years guys were just better. Again, that is not to say that this team can't become what last years was in the future. It just takes growing. Let's not forget that what we see in Taylor we have seen in Chalmers. And I recall, Chalmers got worked over by Kirk Hinrich when they battled Chalmers freshman year. Now it seems like Chalmers would fair a lot better as he has matured...Lets not get ahead of ourselves... enjoy watching this team mature and grow! I think they could mature to the level to compete for the Conference.... I just think touting them as better than last years team (a team that lost only three games) is a stretch.Rockchalk

rockchalkin54 14 years ago

Does anybody know when Little is supposed to be back?

HutchHawkAlum 14 years ago

I am very impressed with this team at this point even in the loss. We are extremely young and inexperienced but this team is leaps and bounds ahead of where Mario's class was their freshman campaign. I do recall that team looking terrible at the Maui Classic three years ago and then winning the Big XII. This team is and will be good, possibly great (and yes, I'm talking about this year). And don't worry, HCBS will get Sherron's head on straight to lead this team. I am looking forward to an exciting and successful season. RCJH!

Jack Wilson 14 years ago

Trust Coach on Releford. By the Jan. 15, Little will be starting and Releford will be in the rotation at the 3. He knows Morningstar isn't the answer there .. but he is a short term answer. Releford has to be doing something in practice that has Coach concerned. One thing we can trust is that Coach will put the best players on the floor, for that particular game. If Little is a good as advertised, this team has a huge ceiling .. but remember, young teams can lose to the Bradleys of the world in March.

DrRoach 14 years ago

Once again...fatigue was not a factor this early in the season when all the little nic's and minor injuries have not bogged anyone down yet. Only 3 probs. 1. Sherron loseing his cool- that will be corrected. 2. Freshman made freshman mistakes/deer in the headlights- that won't last much longer, there going to be great. 3. poor foul shooting when it counted- remains to seen, that could hang around the entire season..HOPE NOT!We have a strong bench IMO. Self has said many time he prefers a 7 man rot. Soon to get stronger with Little.Keep it real don't over think it. It's a young, extreamly talented team..they will be really good in due time.

Chris Teegarden 14 years ago

They said last night that Little was out for like another three weeks.

Jack Wilson 14 years ago

Thug is not how you sound in press conference, but how you act on the court. Flynn acted like a thug and a punk. Whether he is or not is irrelevant. I would be embarrassed by that if I were a Syracuse fan. Thankfully, I'm not.

86finalfour 14 years ago

Kufankam,i don't believe hinrich and chalmers were ever teammates. Chalmers frosh year was 2005. Hinrich was already playing his second season for the Bulls.

Ryan Wood 14 years ago

"doolindalton (anonymous) says...This can be a better team than last year's. More talent in key positions."Stupidest comment ever?

86finalfour 14 years ago

Dr. Roach,I disagree with you logic. With a young team, fatigue does play a role early in the season. These kids were only 3 games plus some exhibitions from H.S. play. If they were veterans, then I would see your point. And Aldrich never played that much last year to test his stamina. Collins was exhausted from trying to do everything, something he won't need to do as these young jayhawks mature. These guys looked haggard by the end of the game - you could see on their faces.

DrRoach 14 years ago

KUbsee69 (anonymous) says...DrRoach calls others ignorant. Maybe ... but wait, most of us know the difference between "there" and "their". Oh, yeah ... it's Orangemen, not Orangmen.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------He acted like a great b-ball player IMO. Collins was just as cocky. Nothing wrong with when back it up. Swagger is needed...all great teams, as well as players have it.

DrRoach 14 years ago

HowMuchRice (anonymous) says..."doolindalton (anonymous) says...This can be a better team than last year's. More talent in key positions."Stupidest comment ever?-----------------------------------------------------------Why very well could be.

Drew Bender 14 years ago

"Thug is not how you sound in press conference, but how you act on the court. Flynn acted like a thug and a punk. Whether he is or not is irrelevant. I would be embarrassed by that if I were a Syracuse fan. Thankfully, I'm not."Embarrassed by rallying your team to a come back victory on the road... Im not a Syracuse fan but I can identify an All-American caliber player when I see one

champhawk10 14 years ago

I can see a good future for this team but to say this team has more talent than last year is the worst comment I have ever seen. As I am bringing my spirits back up from the loss by watching the national championship game again it reminds me how special last years team was. I think this year we will go through spurts in the game where we will look very good and then there will be spurts where we will look very bad. I liked the way taylor looked last night but to agree with everyone's comment we will live and die on how collins plays, at least early on.

caddie733 14 years ago

Agreeing with earlier comments, Sherron really disappeared in the second half and OT. We need him to show up better in crunch time. Free throws were a killer...but our guys are young and haven't been in a situation like that, so they will learn.Welcome to the team Mr. Taylor, think we got a special player there. Played great defense and showed great athleticism and speed, just needs to work on an outside shot.Also, when are teams going to learn that when you are up by 3, you foul before a guy can get a 3 off? When the clock gets below 10 seconds, I would rather foul and not give the other team a shot at a 3. I mean, more buzzer beater 3's are made than a guy making a free throw, intentionally missing the second, getting the rebound, and making another shot to tie or win. Memphis would have won last year if they fouled and never gave Mario a chance to be a hero.

Ben Kliewer 14 years ago

What's the deal, it's almost as if half the kids out there were in High School last year...oh...wait, they were.We looked good at times and at times we looked like we who were in High School last year.I am not too quick to jump on doolindalton's severe mental retardation. Although painfully apparent, he may have some semblance of a point.With the athletes we have on the team, we can be more talented in key positions than last year's team, easily.The team last year wasn't as talented as it was skilled at working together as a team. (And well coached, we still have that)Taylor and the Twins and Thomas are all going to be incredible once they turn from Frosh into college players.Cole is the Anti-Chenowith, and will completely eclipse the name Hansborough from anyone's brain by the end of his tenure at Kansas. (Remember when Cole pwned Hansborough last year?) Reed could be the next Hinrich, and Little has yet to electrify us. Those are just the one's I feel like naming, everyone else is pretty good too.Potential to be better than last year's team? Abso-friggin-lutely. This year? They'll be good, but not likely a National Champion...although that would be awesome, Florida can suck on it.By the way, Syracuse changed their mascot from the Orangemen to the Orange.

caddie733 14 years ago

I am very pleased with where the team is at right now...we are so young, I didn't think the team would compete this well 4 games into the season. Don't forget Mario and the gang (when they were freshmen) started 3-4.

champhawk10 14 years ago

The only reason that this years team has more potential than last year is because last years team was fulfilling their talent. I love this years team, don't get me wrong but right now we can not compare this years team to last years team. We will have to go through some tough games like last night before this team will truly shine!

Brian Skelly 14 years ago

We saw the good, the bad, and the ugly that were going to see and witness with this team this year.The good was it appears a lot of the Freshman are going to be really good. The talent level is undeniable. Taylor had moments of sheer brilliance. The Morris boys both clearly are going to contribute. Even Appleton's one assist was a thing of beauty. Collins and Aldrich are going to be big on this team... and are going to have to be. Our collective team "D" for the most part was strong. The bad was for all this talent, its young talent. And were going to have boneheaded spurts like we did last night. I think what will keep us from being a great team is simply inconsistency. They'll be nights we go gangbusters and can beat anyone. They'll be nights like last night that if we allow good teams to hang around, they'll bite us in the ass. I wouldnt get to carried away though folks. Tennessee and Michigan State are the only real tough non-conference games left. Unless you count Arizona, which I dont. The ugly is/was the fact that no Jayhawk team in YEARS has had to rely on two guys to really make their team go offensively. Because of that I think we'll have trouble against better teams. It was alarming how shoddy we looked after Syracuse switched from Zone to Man-to-Man. It's as if we hadnt seen it ever before. Didnt we have 3 or 4 consecutive turnovers then? Horrible. Collins didnt looks so good then did he? Aldrich has good moves and will put up double-double type numbers. But offensively if he doesnt get the ball in the right spot he's useless. Some of the "chucks" he threw up last night were down right silly. His passing skills will help that issue.But when we need a 'crunch time' hoop this team is going to have issues, and we saw that in all its glory last night. Collins will tend to be that guy, but as we saw he'll also force up a lot of garbage. Aldrich could end up being "that guy" but I dont see it yet.The "spurts" of Taylor and the Morris brothers was nice to see. Clearly their roles will expand as they get more experience.This looks like a 20-10 type team to me, give or take either way.11-4 non-conference and 10-6 in Big 12 play doesnt seem unrealistic, although im sure there are some on here that think we'll only lose 4 or 5 games. I dont see that with our youth. I just dont.Hopefully we ARE a little better than that and can get a Sprint Center 1st/2nd round games come tourny time.Dont be to up or down folks. It's a long season.

not_important 14 years ago

A nice foundation was begun last night on which some great future things will be built. I am in agreement with the thoughts that fatigue hit us hard down the stretch and was partly to blame on our slow start. It would have been nice to get Cole and Sherron off their feet a little earlier on Monday night. Oh well, learn from the mistakes and we'll be ready for Big 12 championship number 5 in a row.

kufankam 14 years ago

86finalfour...i was referring to the alumni game that is played at the summer camps. basically illustrating that, while chalmers was loaded with talent and a great defender, he was abused by an experienced gaurd (in hinrich) who knew how to use his talent. i agree with hutchhawkalum...this year's team is way ahead of where mario's class was as freshman and do agree that this year's team could compete to win the big 12. one of the main reason's being that when mario was a freshman, there was no returning contributors. this years team does have some experience in collins and aldrich. however, i feel they are not going to accomplish what mario's class accomplished last year, this year. they may reach that level next year or the next, but this year's team is leaps and bounds from having the elements that last years team had. last year's team knew what it took to win and they did exactly that... win.

Chris Teegarden 14 years ago

BPSkellyWhat six games in Big 12 do you think we will loose. I'm just wondering. I'm on the same page for non-con

jchief40 14 years ago

Sherron got tired. That's what happened.

justanotherfan 14 years ago

firket,Texas comes to AFH. We could lose that one, because Texas has a lot of talent. We go on the road to both Baylor and Oklahoma. I'd say we are a suspect road team right now. Hilton is always a tough place to play. Trip to Mizzou. Texas Tech is tough at home, although they don't have a ton of talent. I say we will probably lose at least one, maybe two road conference games to teams that we are better than because of mental errors, off nights or other random basketball things that happen to teams without a lot of experience. Even last year's team lost some road games, and they were about as battle tested as you will see in college hoops. They lost to a K-State team that played their best game of the year, always a threat when you wear KANSAS across your chest. They lost to a strong Texas team in a matchup of two pretty even opponents. They lost a weird game to Oklahoma State at the end of a dreadful week - two players dealing with death in the family, no chance to really focus on the task at hand.Looking at that, then looking at this years team, not nearly as battle tested, I think five or six losses is expected, especially in our road games. It's highly possible we will look absolutely awful in at least one or two road games. I think the home crowd will insulate us from that at AFH, but when good teams come to visit (Tennessee, Texas), we will still have our hands full because of our youth.

rockinandchalkin2 14 years ago

People, maybe we just got beat by a better team last night. Most of you, including the players comments, sound like a bunch of crying babies. Maybe Syracuse is just good? They have the best pg in country, a beast in the middle who hands down outplayed our middle "beast", great contributing players, very athletic, and..oh yeah, a hall of fame coach. Syracuse is picked 7th i think in the Big East. All of the teams ahead of them are ranked, and 4 of those teams are in the top 5. Maybe we just got beat by the better team. Let's learn from it and move on.

ncCUSE93 14 years ago

What a bunch of homers Jayhawks fans are. You jump up and down like idiots when you have a big lead and when it gets close you sit your on cans and wring your hands like little old ladies. To make it worse when it is all said and done, and you lose, you heap blame on one of your own freshman and attack opposing players.Some fans. Hey you can all pound your chests when you dismantle Coppin St and tell yourselves all is right with the world.Complaining about losing recruits to Memphis, that is hilarious! Hey maybe they pay more at Memphis. Grow up people. Looks like you have a talanted group of young players. Shame they don't have better fans. I hope you guys are still having bad dreams about Carmelo Anthony, Gerry McNamara, and Hakim Warrick.

rockinandchalkin2 14 years ago

To the idiot who said Flynn is a choice words thug, show a little class. Even if you think it, don't say it. I did a little research on Mr. Flynn. Far from a thug, he is an extremely intelligent (check out his grades), amazingly talented, son of a preacher who Paul Harris (other Syracuse starter from same hometown) says kept him from ending up in jail. If anyone from Syracuse or a Syracuse fan is reading this, please don't think all Kansas fans are as ignorant or classless as that idiot. I personally think you all played a great game, and hope to meet you again sometime in March, or maybe even the first week in April.

KUChiefs2703 14 years ago

Well, there goes the perfect season. Flynn wasn't throughing a punch at Reid. He was just celebrating. It was the camera angle. If you look at from a different angle he was a good 3 feet away from him. By the way, I hate watching the "Cuse". They have to be the most boring team on the face of the planet.

kufankam 14 years ago

ncCUSE,I will grant you that no one here should be jumping all over our players or cuse players. Flynn played great... cuse made the plays and KU didnt. However, I find it kind of "middle school" that you come around a KU message board to laugh it up and point out recruiting comments and past championships. Not all KU fans are ripping into our own, attacking Flynn and worrying about who Memphis lands in recruiting. It just seems kind of childish to go to an opponents website after a win to rub it in? As I thought about it, I think I realized where this comes from. You have grown bored. Since your championship, cuse hasn't won a whole lot of games. More than that, they haven't played too many meaningful games in march. Therefore, you delight in a rare win over a talented team (4 games into their young careers) and wanted to make sure you got your fill. With that, enjoy it! Your team earned it, they were better than ours. I think you may be the one stuck dreaming about Melo, Mac and Warrick because since they've been gone, your team hasn't been too dreamy!

100 14 years ago

This is where we can see most real KU fans don't comment. A real KU fan would not rock on our star guard. That game, though he made a couple key mistakes, was not his fault. Keep in mind, we wouldn't have been 13 up without him. Now, he did let another guy into his head (which he almost never does), so that was very un-Jayhawklike of him. And yes, if he would have kept his compusure, it would have been the difference. But it wasn't his fault. We're all learning this year. Sherron rocks. By season's end, he will be the best point guard in America. He will learn.

ncCUSE93 14 years ago

Kufankam,I will grant you we have been through a rough patch. The recruiting class that came in on the heels of the Championship was dysfunctional, and talked more than they worked. But during that patch SU fans kept our chin up, and supported the players each season hoping they would come around. Time has a way of working things out, however. Watch our smoke. Many more meaningful wins ahead of us with this group. Rock on.

97jhawk 14 years ago

DrRoach needs a lesson from DrGrammar. Reading his comments gives me a headache.

Chris Teegarden 14 years ago

justanotherfanI can see us loosing to Texas and some of the other south schools, but I think that we will be pretty much be all there is in the Big 12 north. Mo. may cause some problems but pretty much every one else is in about the same bote as us. Let me tell you about Hilton (not trying to be rude or argue just some insite) I live about 20 mins. from Hilton and I'm forced on an almost hourly basis to hear about how much the Cyclones blow this year. They have had a bad time w/ dumping coaches after a year or two, so they haven't been able to do any real recruiting in the last 4 or so years. It all went down hill for them when Eustasy ( I'm sure that's spelled wrong sorry) got caught partieing w/ KU fans after we beet them. (The story broke w/ this lovely pic of him on the front page of the paper w/ a naty light in hand surounded by hot blonds in KU gear) I would say at best the hilton magic is gone for at least two more years and that's if they keep this coach. All that to say we may get romped in the south but all the teams we play twice in the north are going to be much easier.

100 14 years ago

Aldrich did not get shot over for that game tying 3. He went for the steal. Why? I'm still not sure. But he'll look at the tape and learn.Like Collins, he will take a couple big things from this game to heart -- they controlled the destiny, but didn't seem to understand that simple fact. If Aldrich simply jump stops with his hands straight up, we win the game. But, lets not pass blame: we wouldn't have dominated 3/4 of that game without him and Sherron. We'll get much tougher, mentally. They're smart kids and we have a great coaching staff.

David Hall 14 years ago

it just one loss the team will still be good

Jack Wilson 14 years ago

ESU Jayhawk you make no point .. with that logic, if you punched your opponent in the groin, and rallied your team to victory, it's fine in your book. Remember, logic flows from point A to point B.

KUPROUD 14 years ago

ncCUSE93, I've also followed the Cuse, and fans are the same everywhere. Despite what Coach Beheim has accomplished, the blogs spew bitter diatribe about wanting to get rid of him. I admire him as a coach and a person, and we were beat by a team that was more prepared to win. But I sincerely hope we meet up in March. I think we have a greater upside than Cuse this year.

rockinandchalkin2 14 years ago

I don't know about that greater upside. I like this team, and I think they will get to the tourney and bow out in the second round. Next year is there year. Just to young right now. Cuse, on the other hand has a budding star in Jon Flynn, a legitimate and still getting better big man in the middle in Onuaku (spelling?), some good shooters and that kid Harris who looks like he should be tearing up offenses as a DB on the gridiron. However, I to hope we meet the Cuse again in March because if we do, it will likely be a later round game (both getting decent ranks).

Rick Arnoldy 14 years ago

I see a whole lot of new names on this board which means a whole bunch of ignorant, shoot from the mouth, no clue about basketball, FRESHMEN. Shut up and get to know the team before you display your stupidity. Flynn was great, on the court and in the post game interview. KU would be proud to have him. Sherron got fatigued, plain and simple. A late start on conditioning did him in. He'll catch up. The freshmen looked great despite the usual freshmen mistakes. This year's team has WAY more raw talent than last year's team. Give it time to develop. It may happen this year, it may be a year or two down the road. It will happen.

Drew Bender 14 years ago

"Embarrassed by rallying your team to a come back victory on the road... Im not a Syracuse fan but I can identify an All-American caliber player when I see one""ESU Jayhawk you make no point .. with that logic, if you punched your opponent in the groin, and rallied your team to victory, it's fine in your book. Remember, logic flows from point A to point B."Im not exactly sure what you are talking about with that last comment... What does being a competitor have to do with punching an opponent in the groin??? Did I miss something in the game??? A punch??? I know there was talking during the game but that is usual stuff...Everybody does it...“Flynn didn’t get in my head. Wasn’t nothing much he was doing to get into my head,” Collins said. “We all talk out there. That’s the game.”

Drew Bender 14 years ago

Ohioburg,Thank you... It seems like I am having this argument with one or two posters when most of the regular posters seem to agree on the same thing

HawkTawk 14 years ago

"Collins looks like Collins of last year and the year before. He's still the kid who nearly blew the National Championship."He is also still the kid who nearly saved the national championship for us with a solid steal and a clutch 3-pointer. Im just saying...

FLJHK 14 years ago

It was a tough loss, but in the long run perhaps more valuable than a win. Syracuse is to be congratulated; they refused to go away when the opportunities were offered.This year should be a blast. No one knows what to expect with such a young team. We do know that the talent and coaching is there. We can compete with anyone, but will likely not win the conference or go more than a couple rounds in the big dance. However it is a team that is impossible to predict, and we should all just enjoy the ride.As regards the insipid comments of the Syracuse fan: get over yourself. You've got a decent program, a decent though often maligned coach, and some good program history. But as compared to Kansas, you are but a blip on the radar screen. No one matches the history, tradition and consistent excellence of Kansas. UCLA, North Carolina and Kentucky can make some legitimate claims, and Duke and Indiana have experienced some glory, but a full examination of the total package leaves the others significantly short. Syracuse? Not even a part of the discussion.

jaybate 14 years ago

ncCuse93,Over the century of being the Daddy to great programs like Kentucky and UNC and to lesser programs like Syracuse, and of winning vastly more basketball games than Syracuse, and winning more championships than Syracuse has, I have come to appreciate humble posters like you that know Syracuse eeked out a win against a green team having an off shooting night. That's a fact, we shot very poorly from trey and from the FT stripes. Imagine if we'd made half our charities and three more treys and three more bunnies. It would have been 10-15 point win without OT, but, hey, that's how it is with young teams. We've been playing the game a loooooooooooooong time and we understand these things. I've also come to feel the pain of teams like Syracuse laboring along with a coach who routinely squanders more talent than 90% of the rest of college basketball teams actually sign. It has to be frustrating to watch them play consistently under their abilities. Yes, Jim Boeheim is so much like our old coach, Ted Owens, 30 years back, that I feel Orangemen's frustration and I respect that they keep their chins up just the way we used to, when we had a coach who had to have better talent AND more experience to win even 70 percent of his games. And, yea, we used to make excuses like, "we're in a really tough conference," but we know that when you and we make those kinds of excuses we're just covering up the pain of underperformance.And we are especially aware of the rationalization that goes, "well, yeah, he chokes a lot, but he's one of the winningest coaches around." Owens was one of our winningest coaches for a short while. And we've seen so many coaches stick around for years and years at good schools like Syracuse near a deep talent base and rack up the wins that, well, that we get that total wins doesn't always correlate highly with excellence in coaching. I can assure you and other Orangemen that life could get better, when Jimmy B retires in another 10-15 years, if you hire coaches of the caliber of Larry Brown, Roy Williamsand Bill Self. Brown won a ring his fourth season. Williams could never win a ring, but he won 80% of his games, just as he's doing at UNC, where he won a ring. And Bill Self? Well, Bill won a ring shortly after arriving, and has won 80 percent of his games at KU. It is sweet and we hope you guys keep your chins up for the next 10-15 years waiting for Boeheim to hang up his rusty whistle.

jaybate 14 years ago

We know the merely good coaches like Boeheim and our own Ted Owens can win 65-70 percent of their games never quite getting the best out of their truck loads of talent, and we know it is very frustrating to see them play anachronistic brands of ball. It must be an incredible drag to have to watch a 2-3 zone 95% of the time and see your best players not develop to the best of their abilities. Don't get me wrong, a couple of your players could play a lot for our green team. And we know you had Carmelo Anthony for a year who was so good, he didn't need any coaching and won you a ring. We had a guy like him. He was Jo Jo White. It was back in the dark days of Owens. Jo Jo White didn't need any coaching either. But like a lot of Boeheim's teams, his team fell short of reaching its full potential. Fortunately for Jo Jo, he went on to win several rings with the Boston Celtics, something Melo hasn't been able to do. Maybe Melo got lucky with you guys, maybe he wasn't as good as he seemed, but I still think the ONLY reason Boeheim won that ring was Melo. Boeheim can never go far with his typical teams that win 70% of their games. It had to be Melo. Keep your chin up ncCuse93, and we will do the same.

jaybate 14 years ago

P.S.: As UNC discovered last season, no one owns us forever and we pick some of the most dramatic moments to over come those that claim to own us. See you in post season this year or next, if Jimmy B's zone can get them into the Madness. Now that you know who your daddy is, you are welcome here anytime.

Greg Lux 14 years ago

I love our "PO" .. We are going to be fun to watch at times and no so fun at others but the solid foundation is there and they can built on it over time. I agree with Coach Night's comment that Cole is going to be "Something Very Special" .. Collins needs to stop trying to carry the team and learn to lead the team. Going coast to coast with 6+seconds ending with a horrible toss at the basket was not Leading, there are 4 other good players and a pass or two could have gotten a lot better chance for a winning shot. Bottom line ... We have great talent and the potential is the sky. How high they go will be up to the players and how fast they adjust to big time college basketball. They have what they need to get there and only time will tell if they learn how to use it.

mlubyRN 14 years ago

Yah, they lost. Yah they are not last years team, not by a long shot. They had big time 3 point threats and FT shooting all around last year. They are young, they will lose and learn from it. I dont expect them to win in the big 12 or ncaa this year but 2 years out, they could win it all again.

Jack Wilson 14 years ago

ESUJayhawk: Obviously, your mental capacity is limited. Your point was that it didn't matter what Flynn did because he rallied his team. You were minimizing him acting like a "thug and a punk" with the rationalization that he rallied his team to victory. Again, too many key strokes to connect the dots for an idiot who would support a guy that acts like a thug and and a punk.

Mr_Sandman 14 years ago

This loss is exactly what happens when you have a team full of inexperienced players. This loss might prove to be more valuable to this team than a win would have been. I can't wait to watch this team grow as the season goes on and I think that when Little comes back they could be a very dangerous team. Can't wait to see EJ and Robinson added to this group next year as well. RCJH!!

mlubyRN 14 years ago

As much as it sucks to see KU lose, a loss this early in the season will do them more good than bad in the long run. I agree with you Mr Sandman, Like Bill Self has said before, this is the first season, big12 play is the second, and ncaa is the 3rd. This part in the season will help the young Jayhawks get ready for the monster that is the Big 12. They certainly could be better than last years team, but its gonna be a couple years before that happens.

Michael Auchard 14 years ago

Cole, you're the man. Don't worry about it, bro.

michaelaho 14 years ago

Very upsetting game. Collins played like garbage...Flynn schooled him. However, I would rather have Collins than Flynn. He's a gamer, a champion & will learn how to deal with point guards gunning for him. He was the chief reason we lost. But...wHere the hell was Releford? Obviously, Self has a dog house & he's in it. For whatever he did. He's so much more talented than Morningstar and Reed. And we've seen what a spark plug he's been, when given the chance. For the sheer fact he never put him in...says a lot. Doghouses are plane and simple unhelpful. Hopely, Self has a plan with him & that it works before he transfers...I'm really tired of seeing Morningstar out there. Seems like a good guy...a Rudy type figure or the kid in Hoosiers who shot from between his legs. But really...he's totally mid major talent. And I can see how proud Self is when he makes a lay up, however its not the last two minutes of a blowout. Enough charity!!! I don't want to lose to Syracuse, because Self wants to see him try. Do that with Coppin St...I would rather lose to Coppin than Syracuse, especially in a tournament in KC. So more Releford (please correct what you're not doing in practice, attitude, whatever Self doesn't like etc. If you don't know...ask? Can't wait to see what Little can do & please please less minutes for Morningstar/Reed. If those guys are going to play, they've got to be lights out shooters, otherwise they're worthless. They've both shot terrible.Oh yeah...I think Taylor is excellent! Wow....great confidence, love the kid already. In the second half, I actually felt more comfortable with the ball in his hands, than Collins. till the next one...

codybear 14 years ago

"TH3E ROTTEN 10"1. Collins is make believe.2. Twins are on their team only. (and it's a joke.)3. They do good against Div 2 only4. Will not come close to winning Big 12.5. There will be no NCAA invite.6., MU will beat them twice this a drum baby!7. Texas and OU can barely wait for the easy victory against K.U.8. Hang it up..........sell tics on E-Bay.9. K-State take 2 W's against Hawks10. Baby can U spell N.I.T.; only if you are lucky

teamdud 14 years ago

Hey jaybate, why don't you try accepting the loss with dignity as opposed to ripping the Syracuse program. VERY CLASSLESS on your part. The game was exciting to the finish, with both teams playing their hearts out. And guess what? Somebody has to lose.......KU has some great young players, but Syracuse's players with the exception of Devendorf have only one season under their belt. KU did pretty much the same thing SU did last year in a tight game with a young team on the floor, they took some poor shots, made silly to's and missed foul shots......but thats what you get with a young team. The future is bright for KU, be happy about that.I don't quite understand why you are so impressed with Williams while bashing a HOF coach like Boeheim. My reccollection is that Williams had numerous McDonald AA's each year but could never win the big one. I remember that because SU beat KU in 2003.....didn't they? By the way, I know KU has a looooooooong history in bball, but Boeheim built SU into a national program, has won over 750 games, been to 3 final fours and won a title over your beloved Jayhawks. I also believe we beat you guys in a regional final the year we lost to Kentucky in the championhip game with a team you probably couldn't name one starter on. Wasn't Williams the coach back then? To all you KU fans, congrats on last years title.....your team earned it. Don't be to hard on your team this year, the season is still early and from what I saw.....they will only get better. The great thing about sports is the competetion, and when the game is done, you walk over to your opponent and shake his had. Win with class and lose with class.As for jaybate, I think it is time for you to change your daiper, or maybe sit in the corner, or take a time silly little boy. GO CUSE!

teamdud 14 years ago

I am not a friend on ncCuse93, I do not support his opinions and like many posters at SU......ignore him. I know jaybate was responding to ncCuses rants, I only had a problem with jaybates "holyer than thou" attitude towards SU's bball program.

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