Thursday, November 16, 2006

Jayhawks stung by loss


Kansas University's basketball players stared straight ahead, not knowing quite what to say after the No. 3 Jayhawks' shocking 78-71 home loss to Oral Roberts on Wednesday night.

"The locker room is completely silent," junior guard Russell Robinson said. "It shows everybody felt it. This is not like our loss in Maui last year. This one hurt a lot more."

More than a 69-61 first-round Maui Invitational loss to Arizona in paradise.

"Everybody is a little more experienced, older," Robinson said, noting why the ORU setback stings more. "Coach (Bill Self) warned us they were capable of beating us. Coach has been stressing it, but believe it or not we didn't believe it. For some reason, we couldn't lock down defensively in practice, and it carried over to the game. That's why it hurts."

Sophomore Brandon Rush noted: "I see this as a different kind of loss. There's more experienced guys. Everybody is expecting so much more from us. We're more confident, comfortable in the system (and still lost)."

While disappointed with KU's first loss of the year in two games, Self didn't get in the face of his players and interrupt the stillness in the somber locker room.

Audio clips

2006-07 Nov. 15 KU-ORU Hoops

"I didn't chew them out," Self said. "I want to let them sit and think about this."

There will be time before Sunday's game against Towson (7 p.m., Allen Fieldhouse) to reflect on poor shooting (43.3 percent), defending (ORU hit 11 of 19 threes) and free throwing (11-of-21 to ORU's 13-of-19), as well as sloppy ballhandling (19 turnovers).

What will not happen is

finger-pointing : not this early in the season with so many games left to play.

"We'll respond to this," Robinson said. "This game will not determine whether we do anything late in the season. More than anything I think it'll help our young guys. They'll know how serious it is to play college basketball."


mcoan 16 years ago

As long as they beat FLA. on Nov. 25, I don't care! :)

Displayhawk 16 years ago

Losing to ORAL Roberts! ........That SUCKS! (So to speak!) Great teams don't lose at home! So the Hawks will come back and destroy Towson! ......Big Deal! It's early in the season, they should have been jacked to play Oral Roberts!

LTB_KU 16 years ago

It is sad when our nationally recognized guards can't hit better than 60% of their FTs...

FlaHawk 16 years ago

Two things were (again) revealed about KU: 1) lack of a pure shooter on the team 3 pts, 2 pts or FTs (lol); 2) no "go to guy" - this team lacks a clutch performer and someone that can step it up when everyoen else is failing and flaying around. You would think Rush being a Pre-Season All-America could do this but through out his career at KU he disappears when he is needed the most.

LAHAWK 16 years ago

I'm sorry folks, but when you have a guy that is 7 for 8 from 3, wouldn't you think that after the third or fourth make you might want to guard the guy. Forget about the double team on Green, let him get his points and shut down the other guys. How can a guy get that many open looks, I could care less if he had only made 1 three all year. You give anybody that kind of look at the basket he's going to drop 'em. This is sad, our freethrow shooting is awful, our turnovers killed us and we don't have a guard who can bury a three, in our own Barn. I hope the team and coach learned something from this game. You can't just roll the ball out there and win on talent. You have to put your nose to the grind stone and do the little things that win ball games, like take every posession like it's your last.

JayCeph 16 years ago

ORU Serious?!?

No excuses. There is no excuse for this.

UTEP, Rhode Island, Ball State, Richmond, Bucknell, KState (in Allen last year), Bradley, and now ORU.

For crap's sake! I know the season is early. So what. That doesn't make this craggy pill any easier to swallow. What a let down. I can't believe that a team as fast and deep as the Hawks let this one get away. Not this one. No.

I know the Golden Showers were raining in every shot they took last night and usually with a hand in their face or some other pretty good coverage but where they shouldn't have had any success (the stuff you can control) was down low. They (KU) let too many passes get into the post (deep).

This really isn't a good sign. Well, I am really looking forward to next year. I hope our age and majurity will show then. Right now, we are just still too young and have way too much to learn.


Michael Bratisax 16 years ago

The better coached team won. How can you not be ready to play the second game of the season? Don't look forward to much to next year....most of the best players will be gone. Beat Florida? Don't bet the house.

JayCeph 16 years ago

I know most posts get tossed up in a hurry and people just pound the keys to get their thoughts captured but if you are going to call someone AN idiot... perhaps the 'and' shouldn't be part of the equation. You just end up negating your point.

Displayhawk 16 years ago

Sherron Collins has been the best shooter of the three guards, so why not put him in and set some screens for him to shoot the three??? Guess we haven't practiced the box and one yet either! The zone seemed to slow them down, so what do we do??? .......Go back to man to man and give up a three!
jhawk7782 is right! ....We got out-coached in this game!

mikedog1 16 years ago

Sorry folks.....after last night I am officially off the Bill Self Bandwagon! Too many players are leaving or being kicked of the team and we lose to terrible teams (AT HOME!). Sure Bill Self can recruit but that alone is not enough. Mmmm....who should be our coach? How about old #25 Danny Manning! Enough is Enough!!!! I'll be in Vegas next week....look for me I'll be holding the FIRE BILL SELF sign!

tankshot 16 years ago

jhawk is an idiot. whoopidy doo 1 game, who cares? that just gives us more hunger for the next one

JayCeph 16 years ago

You don't just wright off one game (against a nobody team) at home. Not early in the season when you still have fresh legs, are the cover of a national mag and are surrounded by oodles of talent.

No excuse for this...

jrbill67 16 years ago

Outcoached, outplayed, outhustled, outsmarted. Self might be right about losing someone to the NBA next year, but it will be Arthur, not Rush. No losses are good, but better now than later. Maybe this will serve as the wake up call that lets the team know they have to play hard every game.

klineisanazi 16 years ago

Sherron Collins won't be seeing many minutes until he can play some defense. So forget that. I just hope he learns fast so he doesn't disappear like Robinson did his freshman year.

shelleysue 16 years ago

It pains me to say this, but I haven't really enjoyed KU basketball since Bill Self came to town. And I've been a KU fan for almost 40 years. I don't feel like Self has ever looked comfortable or happy at KU. I can't explain it.

Yes Self can recruit, but that point is worthless since he can't coach. I don't blame it all on the players - that is an unbelievably talented group. Of course every KU team that has been under Self was a very talented group. Self just can't find the answers. For me, his biggest blunder was losing to a horrible K-State team in our own house.

In reference to the players who have left. Two of them made SI's top five transfers list.

No matter what, I love the HAWKS!! But honestly, I'm still in football mode. I hope I see A LOT of blue and hear A LOT of noise on Saturday. GO HAWKS!!

rhagg 16 years ago

mikedog1- Give me a break. Too many players leave or get kicked off? Come on, do you really think those players would have made a difference. And to fire Bill Self and hire Danny Manning? That is ignorance at it's finest, Manning is lucky that he is even sitting on the bench. Last I saw he isn't even a "coach" he is some basketball affairs guy. Can't wait to see later when you praise Bill when the teams is back on track. It's fans like you that make these blog things annoying!

Tim Hills 16 years ago

I think Mr. All America should jump to the NBA right now. He would still have 70 games to play. Heard the interview with Russell Robinson after the game. He was asked about who needed to step up with leadership. He said he, Mario and Sherron. Darrell stepped up tonite. Nowhere was Mr. All America mentioned! That ought to tell us something. Also noticed when the players got together for their scrum after sliding on the floor at the end of warmups, Mr. All America just barely made it to the group before they were done. Self needs to sit him on the bench until he is ready to play. See how is NBA stock rises then. We need him to show up every game. Not just when he feels like it.

Craig Lang 16 years ago

The problem with this team is that it does not know how to handle the mid-major opponents. They do fine with the Div. II and bottom-of-the-barrel Div. I's (Like New Orleans and Chaminade last season). They also hold up very well against top-rated opponents (look at last year's Kentucky game and the Big 12 Championship game against Texas).

The problem is for some reason this team cannot handle mid-major opponents. Bradley, Bucknell, Nevada, Arkansas...the list goes on and on. I think it is a mental thing with Self and his players. They need to work on that.

mikedog1 16 years ago

rhagg- Last I saw Bill Self isn't even a "coach"! A title does not make a man! Also, if you wish proclaim a statement "Ignorant" it helps to back it up with some facts not wishful thinking and passive insults. Finally, NO I don't think that THOSE guys would have made a difference but while winning is #1 it is not the only thing. We are KANSAS and we should, and I do hold us to a higher standard than maybe you think we should!

suzifrye 16 years ago

mikedog1 how stupid are you, fire Bill Self whatever. He is not the one out there playing. He can yell at the players till he is blue in the face, it's up to the players to step up and play. And step up and play they didn't. You are just a sore loser, and need to get over it.

Lngtimhwk 16 years ago

I am thinking about a coach we had in the 1970's that could really recruit players but not get them to play at a higher level and was also outcoached way too often. Is Bill Self the second coming of Ted Owens? YIKES!!!!

Larry Smith 16 years ago

People get off of Coaches back, and stop piling on Brandon. Is it me or does JW never get critisized no matter how bad of a night he has.

shelleysue 16 years ago

People - There is no right or wrong to the Bill Self debate. It is each person's opinion. It really isn't necessary to call someone an idiot or stupid. suzifrye, you are right. Self is not the one out there playing. He is simply the one resposible for motivating his players, running the practices, calling the plays, developing his players, finding a successful player rotation, calling the time outs, picking the starters, studying and analyzing game film, developing the plan for each game, coming up with the answers to every opponent during every game, and the one responsible to find a way to win. And he's paid handsomely to do it.

My boss who happens to be a KSU alum has been telling me for several seasons now that Self is a great coach and that KU will eventually win a National Championship under him. I would love nothing more. But no matter what happens, I won't be a Bill Self fan. That's my opinion. I don't have to love every coach to love the Jayhawks.

Larry Smith 16 years ago

OK, since you all wanna talk about how bad we were out-coached and out played I guess Bill must be terrible. I'm sure at no point did he ever say "guys we gotta make free throws and make open lay-ups". I am sure that thought never crossed his mind, and he never let his players now it. I am positive that those players have never been taught how to make an open lay-up and have never shot a free throw. It must be the poor coaching. If the players do those 2 things we are not even having this discussion today.

Teapot9 16 years ago

CJ Giles would have been incredibly useful. I also think its wrong that Self dismissed him without any court hearings. If I were CJ a lawsuit would be in the works.

JayCeph 16 years ago

Yeah, its called 'child support' and the lawsuit is pending.

jaywalkR 16 years ago

the team should not have lost this game, instead of recklessly going through the lane expecting a foul they should have tried to make the shot. Freethrows also would have won them the game.

am i the only one that feels like CJ should still be on the team... or that there is more to the story than child support and academics. seriously if you think about it, if you're a full-time student athlete you can't hold a job and pay child support and there are plenty of athletes that have children. something just doesn't add up when it comes to him being dismissed. I personally would like to see him come back after taking care of whatever has caused him to take this opportunity for granted.

birdface 16 years ago

Last night will probably be ORU's best game of the it had to be against the Hawks but it's not going to ruin our season. I think we needed the reality check anyway. Damn you Sports Illustrated!:)

justinryman 16 years ago

Bill Self is a great recruitor, thats very easy to see. He is an OK coach at best. He had a 1 or 2 game over .500 while he coched at ORU. His Illinois' teams never made it past the sweet 16, of course the year he leaves they play for the championship, and the players were happy to lose the shackles that he had put on them.

Just ask Kirk Hinrick about overwhelming talent on the floor, like team USA this past summer....How did they do??? Thats right if you can't have all the talent play as a team its worthless in a tihgt game. 5 scorers and 1 ball, got to find a way to coach the team to play as a team.

CasperCorps 16 years ago

Everything is going to be OK. Last time ORU beat Self, his team went to the Elite Eight.. I would like to know how many seniors ORU had versus ours.... Oh wait we don't have any.... There is something definetly to be said for "senior leadership" ... Rush doesn't have that swagger that is needed to be a leader and by his body language looks like he wants desperatly to just blend into the team. Which is totally understandable cause he has asked for none of this attention. Look for Chalmers to have a better year in scoring then the other guards and watch as he takes more of the leadership role...Go KU!...

Displayhawk 16 years ago

You are going to see more mid-majors upsetting the top Division 1 teams in the future! Those mid-major teams usually have players who are not the McDonalds All-Americans. They have very talented and skilled players who stay in school for four years and learn the system completely and who can adjust to what the other team is doing. Sometimes, (like last night) experienced players who play as a team, can beat a younger, less-experienced team that is more athletic!

kcmostwanted 16 years ago

This is probably the most annoying blog because there are so many Bill Self haters after 1 loss of the season... and i completely agree w/ Displayhawk.... Give our guys some time so they can get rolling again...A loss early in the season will help them so they don't walk around w/ big heads... and those mid majors have lots of experience over our young but talented group... Mid Majors get lots of the 3 star recruits but just because they're 3 star recruits or lower doesn't mean they can't/don't learn how to play ball successfully at the college level

Geekinout 16 years ago

Missing free throws and not showing up defensively is a lack in concentration, focus, and intensity. Players do play the game, but coaches are the one's responsible for making sure their players are prepared when it comes game time. Never have really seen any true CONSISTANT team chemistry on the court and that could be from players being young, leaving, or getting the boot from the team. Sick of the off-the-court distractions preventing the team to fully gel. Never have seen so many players leave or get kicked off either, until Bill Self started his tenure here at KU. The team is still young and he has shown he can recruit the high profile players that have the athletic skills, but he seems to overlook the overall character and basketball IQ. I honestly don't think he recruits as much as the name and prestige of The University of Kansas does either. KU will always land solid players, may not be the best in the nation, but they will be solid. Also, I do think there is such a thing as having to many high profile players on one team. The majority of the points should be consistently coming from a couple players every game followed by a strong and deep group of role players. Sure, this team isn't one full of ball-hogs and they do like sharing the ball, but sometimes having someone that is always willing to step up helps. I think a bigger line up with Wright at the 3 position and Rush at a 2 position in a more half-court set would cut down on turn-overs and would give us a longer team. A pure shooter on the team wouldn't hurt either.

Lance Hobson 16 years ago

The 'Hawks are going to rule in Vegas. This loss is the best thing that could have happened to these young guys. I'm going to guarantee ALL of you that KU beats Florida in Vegas. Write it down folks.

justdoit23 16 years ago




brooksmd 16 years ago

I blame the practice squad. Why? Cause none of you naysayers mentioned them. If they had performed to the level of ORU our guys would've been better prepared. LOL Sheesh, I don't know why I ever come back and read the crap that gets dumped in here. Just wish I was closer to home so I could see more games. We don't get may KU games down here in da bayou.

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