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Kansas at Oklahoma coverage

Oklahoma defeats Kansas, 72-66

  • 3 p.m., Feb. 9, 2013
  • Lloyd Noble Center, Norman, OK

FINAL: KU drops third straight in 72-66 loss to Oklahoma

The Kansas men's basketball team couldn't keep up with hot-shooting Oklahoma, falling 72-66 to the Sooners on Saturday afternoon at Lloyd Noble Center in Norman, Okla.

The Jayhawks lost their third straight game for the first time since 2005.

With KU trailing 70-66 with 14 seconds remaining, Elijah Johnson drove all the way to the rim but missed the layup. OU's Cameron Clark grabbed the defense rebound to seal it.

OU made 56 percent of its field goals in the first half in building a 38-34 halftime lead. The Sooners also hit seven three-pointers, their most since a Jan. 12 game against Oklahoma State.

Romero Osby led OU, scoring 17 points on 6-for-8 field-goal shooting. Steven Pledger added 15 points.

Ben McLemore led KU with 15 points on 6-for-10 shooting. Jeff Withey added 14 points, six rebounds and one block, tying Greg Ostertag's KU career record for blocked shots.

KU (19-4, 7-3 Big 12) will play host to Kansas State at 8 p.m. Monday.


Box score

Comments

Brian Haase 9 years, 4 months ago

When is the last time someone on this team got mad?

Robbk1066 9 years, 4 months ago

YES -- I was saying this after TCU... A senior should be barking at the team right now.

PhogAdvisory 9 years, 4 months ago

It's weird, but I almost WISH someone would get called for a technical.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 4 months ago

Wesley was screaming at Elijah w/ about 8 min. left.

diegohawk 9 years, 4 months ago

So many similarities. Both good coaches. Both refuse to shake things up.

colreader 9 years, 4 months ago

If KSU loses today there's a 4-way tie for 1st. I think.

diegohawk 9 years, 4 months ago

I would hope our fans at home will not let us lose the KSU game but the way we've been playing we may negate the advantage of Allen.

planojayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Don't worry, EJ will find a way to lose the game, and TRel will go hiding on offense again.

phins13td 9 years, 4 months ago

putrid performance again. EJ stinks and the free throw shooting is awful.

79jayhawker 9 years, 4 months ago

EJ is bad and our worst player at this point taking the most shots. Just not how to win games. What's up with Releford? Just shows no emotion or energy?

Ryan Michael 9 years, 4 months ago

EJ didn't play well, but he wasn't the worst player on the court today... I don't know why everyone seems to only call him out. How about the others? Worst player on the court title goes to Withey. 5 turnovers, and couldn't defend anyone to save his life. Much less his blocking out (or a lack thereof). Rebounds? Nope. 7 footer who plays like a middle school girl. It's sad when your "big" 7 footer makes his offensive move, and ends up further from the goal than he started because he's so weak.

Releford? Scared to death to shoot... Why? Probably because of how everyone is jumping on Johnson. But lets be honest, Johnson HAS to shoot because nobody else on this team will. They all get touches, they all pass the hot-potato as fast as possible and Johnson (being the PG) ends up with the ball and just has to do something.

Johnson isn't playing well, but if we're going to point out flaws, there are plenty more people than Johnson that deserve every bit as much criticism.

Dan Harris 9 years, 4 months ago

great post and I couldn't agreee more!

dehawk 9 years, 4 months ago

I agree too. The fear of being called out on this board contributes and so does what CS says to the press. The players see what is happening to EJ and no one wants that on their back. Until bloggers start passing the blame around, then we will see this on Monday too. With EJ's confidence at an all time low, I give him props for still putting it up. I watch players not take open shots and the ball going back to EJ. If you have to blame, make it the group thing because too many players dont want to be in the dog house too. I for one am going to ride it out with the team. Good or bad, I am a Jayhawk for life.

johnnyphoton 9 years, 4 months ago

Well said? Great post? Are you kidding me? Ryan_32, you are taking the easy way out. You're water. The truth of the matter is this Kansas team isn't stocked with the kind of talent spoiled KU "fans" are accustomed to. The last ten years have provided nothing but excellence. If you want to call out Jeff Withey because he's not the dominant, nimble, offensive and defensive machine you think he should be then you need to take a better look at your expectations and ratchet them down. Providing the kind of players that translates into a winning team year over year is hard. Coach Self has done a great job of that for TEN straight years. Get a grip. Enjoy the process. Watch these young men develop. You never what may happen this month and next.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 4 months ago

Disagree...not seeing "development"...seeing regression.

TexasRockChalk 9 years, 4 months ago

It's called an opinion. Sorry, but can't really take anyone with the name "JohnnyPhoton" seriously. (No malice)

johnnyphoton 9 years, 4 months ago

No malice taken. What's your real name, TEXASROCKCHALK?

Ryan Michael 9 years, 4 months ago

Taking the easy way out? What are you talking about? My entire post is just saying this is a team effort, not all on Johnson. Should nobody ever criticize our players at all? Maybe you should send that memo to coach Self who blasted this team to the national media earlier in the week...

Critical thinking doesn't appear to be your strong suit...

johnnyphoton 9 years, 4 months ago

Okay, so now it's Coach Self who is the problem? I guess I missed that part of your screed.

mhebboy 9 years, 4 months ago

EJ is absolutely our worst player out there night in and night out! He is a cancer on this team! The kid has no desire to do anything right! No heart and no basketball IQ. Sad.

PeterGriffin 9 years, 4 months ago

Doc Sadler for the interim then go on search

lurkerhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

You really should get out of your parents' basement and get your brain some fresh air.

Dan Harris 9 years, 4 months ago

Your mildcats are getting beat right now, maybe you should worry about your own team TROLL!

Craig Colgin 9 years, 4 months ago

Im not sure why Doc Sadler is even involved in KU basketball at all. To suggest that he be more involved is complete and total lunacy. Self is our coach, and Self will remain our coach. Please go get some help or meds or something, if not for your own good, for the good of those unfortunate enough to be near you.

kcmojayhawker 9 years, 4 months ago

Be realistic! He missed on some PG recruits and this team is paying the price with a two trying to facilitate the offense. The guys getting the most minutes were a supporting cast on last years team-role players, and you can see it in conference play. Unless Ben stays or Randle comes in next year will be ugly by KU standards.

Clarence Haynes 9 years, 4 months ago

We missed out on Smart and Porter at G'town. Need I say more.

RockChalkOhio 9 years, 4 months ago

EJ can now patent the "turnover on last possession" move. This may not be KU's year in BB, but it's still a great university.

Benjamin Piehler 9 years, 4 months ago

Regardless of our ranking, I'd expect the court to be rushed at every away loss.

You don't win 8 strait without making some enemies along the way.

Steve Jacob 9 years, 4 months ago

Hey, NC St. did not rush the floor when the beat Carolina for the first time in awhile. Sometimes, beating your rival just don't mean that much, like when KSU beats KU in football.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 4 months ago

Just a rumor but I was told Withey was the reincarnation of Dwayne Schintzius...

gorilla10 9 years, 4 months ago

Why weren't we in man down by 1. We dared them to shoot wide open 3's and they did....and hit them!

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 4 months ago

I had no problem seeing them go to a zone but a good team will figure it out and adjust by their fifth time down the court

Christopher Hauser 9 years, 4 months ago

dispair has set in with me, maybe my KU fandom is unhealthy but dispair is the only word I can think of....well that and angry.

mhebboy 9 years, 4 months ago

Super depressed and sickened man. Sad....

TexasRockChalk 9 years, 4 months ago

Sports depression setting in? That was last Saturday against O-State. We're well past depression setting in. More like the feeling of "calling in sick all week". :)

phins13td 9 years, 4 months ago

Why does Self continue to go with the seniors? Its like a few years ago in the tourney when Morningstar and Reed were throwing up bricks and he refused to put Selby in, WHY?

phins13td 9 years, 4 months ago

that year in the tourney, Morningstar and Reed shot it horribly, anyone should have been in besides them.

Ethan Berger 9 years, 4 months ago

Morningstar had a great game in the sweet 16.

phins13td 9 years, 4 months ago

Yes, and when it mattered in the elite 8 game vs VCU, he did nothing but find iron, shot after shot.

diegohawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Looking forward to next year. Bill won't have seniors to go to unless he plays Wesley. He will continually sit a freshman with more upside just to let a senior struggle thru a funk. I don't understand it but that is our coach and that is what he does.

Justin Daniel 9 years, 4 months ago

I think we finish 2-6 in the conference and get a 12 seed play in game. TCU & TT at home are the only wins

Kim Mandle 9 years, 4 months ago

Mad? I think the team believes it is owed something. I did see a few smiles when we turned the ball over, but nothing close to anger.

gorilla10 9 years, 4 months ago

Cue seldon, embiid, frankcamp and Greene please!!!

Kent Kossoy 9 years, 4 months ago

Bench EJ and play anyone else as point. That was the weak spot all year. Now it is a no spot. Just play 4 men!!! What's the difference??

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 4 months ago

What I don't understand is why BMac doesn't shoot more. He worse open on several occasions.

Eric Hammond 9 years, 4 months ago

Because we don't have a facilitator, and BMac can't dribble for the life of him. He is one hell of a spot up shooter, but he can't make his own shot because his dribbling is horrible.

Kevin Huffman 9 years, 4 months ago

Overstated...not bad on a drive TO the hoop.

TexasRockChalk 9 years, 4 months ago

I agree with you on the free throws, but how about POINT-BLANK LAY-UP practice?!?!?! (EJ!)

nuleafjhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Look at the bright side guys (and gals):

At least we won't have to listen to the " OVER-RATED " chant much longer.

KGphoto 9 years, 4 months ago

I never understood that chant. Why would you downgrade the rating of a team you just beat, and in turn downgrade your own accomplishment? It's moronic.

nuleafjhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

i agree 100% - i posted that after the last loss ( that sounds weird to even say it) - but all it says is " we're not good enough to beat a good team, so you must be over-rated ". The people that chant is must be too stupid to realize how stupid it is.

Sam Constance 9 years, 4 months ago

Bunch of pathetic excuses for fans in here.

I wish I had the patience to take names so that I could post a list of them when KU ends up finishing the season strong after going through this adversity.

Note: I'm not talking about everyone in here.

Benjamin Piehler 9 years, 4 months ago

Come Monday, the fairweather fans will all be banging the drums again. The hawks will turn it around, hopefully with a vengeance.

Dan Harris 9 years, 4 months ago

Agreed but this is a forum for venting and Ithink for the most part that is what your seeing.

phins13td 9 years, 4 months ago

When you lose 3 in a row and show no heart in the process and nothing is done with the lineup but to continue to roll out the seniors, fans have a right to complain.

If you are happy with this effort, you are not a true KU fan.

dehawk 9 years, 4 months ago

A true fan doesn't have to complain in public to be a fan. Don't insult those fans who believe supporting the team and the coach shows support. I am happy with the play but I'm also not the one playing. We are suppose to be the best fans in college basketball. This board doesn't look like it. We are going to scare away our recruits if we don't watch ourselves.

dehawk 9 years, 4 months ago

I meant I'm "not" happy with the play. Don't jump on me for my mistake.

Alan Mills 9 years, 4 months ago

Not sure I can agree about sitting Johnson. Nothing better as an option on the bench. I'm not as enthusiastic about Tharpe as some. He can't make lay ups, either. And, when he hits an outside shot or two he starts thinking he's a shooter. He clearly is not. One change that is completely on the coaches is the option at the end of the game. Cannot be Johnson any longer. He's proven he cannot get the job done. Why not go with McLemore?

Our offense isn't very good, but this game turned on defense entirely. The Jayhawks simply cannot guard. Oklahoma shot open jump shots all afternoon. We are unable to defend a ball screen. We help off the best shooters. And, we stayed in that gimmick zone about three possessions too long. Got the Sooners cooled off, then allowed them to take three wide open shots, hitting the last. As for offense, we just don't have shooters. Releford started out looking for shots, it seemed. But, in the second half he passed up at least 6 open looks. McLemore is streaky, but clearly the best option. We run four posts out on the floor who can't and won't shoot from outside of 4 feet, so teams don't guard them. Everyone else has post players who can shoot it and will shoot it. Our posts can't defend that because they never have to at practice. Withey is really the only other scoring option. Young, Tharpe, Ellis, Traylor, Wesley, White, and Adam cannot score, period. Don't need to hear how good they were somewhere else, or how good they are in practice. In games, they are just bad. Ellis is weak. White has more airballs in limited minutes than most players have in a lifetime, especially those who are supposed to be shooters.

With all that, I will continue to expect the Jayhawks to win and look forward to Monday night, so I can watch them and root for them again. I'll also, of course, hope they are better.

Robbk1066 9 years, 4 months ago

EJ is a minus 5-10 points every game, how much worse can it be with him sitting? He hurts you so much in so many ways. He is rushing, making poor judgements and cannot make simple shots. Any other team would sit him. You have to consider it.

RockChalkOhio 9 years, 4 months ago

All terrific points, and all, to my mind, right on the mark. What amazes me, though, is how little players learn with each game. Tharpe still can't figure out that when it's 1 on 2 or 1 on 3, he shouldn't try to take it to the basket. He still hasn't learned how to make a layup. Ellis can't shoot, period. Nice that he's aggressive, but aggression without results means little. Johnson turns it over at the end, again and again. McLemore hasn't learned how to take charge. Maybe he can't. The only way to get better is to learn from what went wrong. When is the learning going to occur?

rockchalkjh16 9 years, 4 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

phins13td 9 years, 4 months ago

EJ and Releford are awful. Please Bill, sit their butts on the bench.

Dan Harris 9 years, 4 months ago

Agree on sitting EJ but Releford had 5 points in the first couple of minutes and then dissappeared. He needs to be shooting it 15 to 20 times a game!!

phins13td 9 years, 4 months ago

Releford was clanking them from the FT line when it mattered. Its clearly time he came off the bench.

Dan Harris 9 years, 4 months ago

Everybody was clanking them from the freethrow line! Releford needs to shoot more!!

Steve Jacob 9 years, 4 months ago

KU is in danger of not getting a top four seed and not playing the first two games in the NCAA's at Sprint Center.

Dan Harris 9 years, 4 months ago

I know and I'm worried. I bought 4 tickets at Jerry's world and they might not even make it there now!!!

PeterGriffin 9 years, 4 months ago

Bill Self's answer for this teams offensive woes is triangle and 2 DEFENSE!? Fire Bill Self now

Pitthawk34 9 years, 4 months ago

And your answer for your life is to come on a message board to Troll.

Dan Harris 9 years, 4 months ago

Your mildcats are losing right now so maybe you should worry about your own team, TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JhawkalumJB 9 years, 4 months ago

This b-ball season is bringing back memories of the 2009 football team. Started out looking good then lost the last 7 games.

Pitthawk34 9 years, 4 months ago

Coach Self can just do so much with this team. I sure hope the place will be sold out Monday but the way things are looking we may be short. If I hear the guy that does the intros introduce EJ with a long E again I will vomit all over him.

Robbk1066 9 years, 4 months ago

This cannot be compared to 88 or 2008 teams, They had superior talent in 08, and Danny in 88. The nose dive is amazing considering how long and sloppy it has been, 5 weeks now. This is not a chemistry issue, it is a focus/confidence issue. The way this plays out 6-7 loss's in conf. one in the b12 tourney. Thats a min of 7 loss's double digit seed, out before sweet 16, if we are lucky. no conf champ, no b12 champ, no NCAA swt 16. Lots of questions. Sad but looking very true.

TexasRockChalk 9 years, 4 months ago

Well, your outlook certainly isn't as rosy as your avatar.

Robbk1066 9 years, 4 months ago

:)) Well if you suck, at least you should look great doing it!

Jayhawks1985 9 years, 4 months ago

Well Baylor was doing good last year and look how they lost it. We were chanting overrated to them.

Kristen Downing 9 years, 4 months ago

I don't care what Self says, you can practice free throws. 55% to their 80% is ridiculous. Also, his stubborness regarding the zone defense is ridiculous. Waited way to long to use it. I saw Florida go to it in the first half.

Dan Harris 9 years, 4 months ago

I'm at a loss for words(unlike Jbate,lol!)

I think one 10 second sequnce can sum it up.

J Withey fails to block out for an easy OU putback, then nearly throws it away, then sets a moving screen.

I"m not throwing in the towel like some boardrats are but the Hawks better pull their heads out of their ass or it will be a short run in the tournement!

monkeehawkSL8 9 years, 4 months ago

When Jeff stood there looking at the squirrel in the tree, flat footed, hands hanging at his side I screamed so loud the dog ran under the bed. That's jr.high basketball 101, BLOCK OUT!

A fire needs to be lit under their arsses. Gotta match?

rockchalkjh16 9 years, 4 months ago

It really wouldn't hurt at this point to put a different starter in at the 1, if only just for one game. Motivate EJ, piss him off, give him a reason to want to do the WORK necessary to earn the starting position again.

Alan Mills 9 years, 4 months ago

I'm 100% convinced he isn't healthy. He looked like this back in December. Then had two weeks in a row with games only on Saturday. His legs were back for a few weeks. But, been in steady decline since mid-January. He's not a step slow, he's two or three steps slow. Same with Young and Withey. But, can't play Ellis or Traylor more, really. Maybe need to go small more to get them breaks?

rockchalkjh16 9 years, 4 months ago

Oh, I am SO disappointed with Ellis. Disappointed may not even be strong enough of a word. Traylor will come along, I'm convinced, but Ellis thus far just looks like a flop.

TexasRockChalk 9 years, 4 months ago

As much as it pains me to say this, I agree with you. I'm getting sick and tired of hearing how Ellis "is such a nice kid (and valedictorian too)". How about being a little nasty like TRob and Tyshawn from time to time?!

jaybate 9 years, 4 months ago

Next.

We are back to losing by a few to decent teams.

Now we need an ugly win.

I suspect we will lose to KSU next.

The team will need a full week off to get their legs back and get a win.

4 strait losses is humbling, but it's the breaks.

Bottom line is they are getting beaten because they've lost their athleticism and energy. They won't win again till they get it back.

Only they know what happened to it. Burn out? Injuries? Sickness? All of the above. Gotta play through. No other way.

Good luck guys.

I believe in you.

Do your best with what you've got, and hang on til you get better.

Rock Chalk!!!

TexasRockChalk 9 years, 4 months ago

Wow, even the "great" Jaybate has been relegated to to a very limited commentary. Those are the fewest words he's used in ages (only kidding).

Alan Mills 9 years, 4 months ago

Freshmen FTs = 4-5 Seniors FTs = 7-15

Low post 7' senior center with 5 turnovers

4x player of the year in Kansas 0-4 from the field

senior guard 3-11 shooting - he only missed 4 three pointers, so must have missed 4 layups!

JhawkalumJB 9 years, 4 months ago

I've never been to a KU game that they have lost, I'll be there on Monday so no worries out there. We'll win...

kittyboo 9 years, 4 months ago

I've never seen KU lose in person either. I live out east now and fly back for one game a year. Last year was Mizzou, this year is K-State. We got this.

TexasRockChalk 9 years, 4 months ago

I wish it were that simple. Take some HEART with you to the game; maybe they'll let you in the locker room before the game :)

madcow 9 years, 4 months ago

If Tharpe doesn't start next week I'm going to hang myself.

I love EJ, but the man is not a point guard and shouldn't be handling the ball.

79jayhawker 9 years, 4 months ago

Great idea! Let's move the 3 for 11 shooter to the shooting guard position!

madcow 9 years, 4 months ago

EJ is rushing things too much while trying to run the offense, which is why his layups are bouncing off the glass or his foot. His game will come back to him once he is playing his natural position.

TexasRockChalk 9 years, 4 months ago

Still beyond BAFFLED at why/how he's taking 11 shots in the game. Even the Mrs. was asking incredulously as EJ was clanking brick after brick, "Why is he shooting so much?! Why doesn't the cute guy (Ben Mc) shoot more?!" Gotta love her :)

LngTimeFan 9 years, 4 months ago

Passing the ball around out high without anyone making even a fake move toward the basket is NOT offense. EJ needs to spend the rest of the season sitting at the end of the bench. Missed cripples, not grabbing the ball, inexcusable at this point of the season. Ellis is the bright spot, his effoert is excellent. KSU will beat KU, KSU wants it, KU doesn't get it. And before I get jumped on, I have been a diehard KU fan since the 50's. What a debacle this year has been.

79jayhawker 9 years, 4 months ago

I have to agree. It appears that everyone is following his poor effort approach.

mhebboy 9 years, 4 months ago

They really are and it breaks my heart. He has the most cancerous attitude when it comes to winning. He doesn't want to do what it takes. He doesn't care, and it shows when he is laughing and smiling every time he gets beat on defense, turns the ball over, misses a FT or layup! I wish he would have transferred a couple years ago!

sarcastichawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Dumb. Its fine to criticize his play but I find it pretty unfair to attack his character.

SaltLakeHawk 9 years, 4 months ago

so...so...soooooo stupid. horrible post. just terrible

mhebboy 9 years, 4 months ago

Truly Unbelievable! Please please please please please please please please please please please please please please bench EJ!!! Wow he is awful! Please start Tharpe. Maybe that will send EJ a message, but I doubt it. He simple does not get it! Laughing and smiling whenever he gets beat on defense, misses a FT or turns the ball over! Sickening!

Please Self, right the ship! Some change must be made and made NOW!!!

nuleafjhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

If you add one more " please ", I think he'll do whatever you ask of him.

Niraj Shah 9 years, 4 months ago

No defense, lackluster play by the Seniors and a team that is both fragile mentally and physically is going to continue to get their collective backsides whipped. As HCBS said, no one fears the Hawks and when this team is challenged they recoil like scared children.

bwgrace86 9 years, 4 months ago

I'm tired of commentators saying EJ has a good heart and is trying but just not getting results. He is playing so poorly right now. Sit him and let him come off the bench. He is not a leader and doesn't look comfortable with the ball in his hands. Of course he is going to have the most to's but its when he gets them. End of halves hurts or when runs can be started. The defense is looking putrid too. I was confident in OU to get buckets each time KU cut it to 1 or 2 because thats just how it goes.

bwgrace86 9 years, 4 months ago

Also, KU shot FTs well early in the season but now those are not close. Never seen so many shots from under 3 feet away missed. And EJ misses 3 out of every 4 lay ups.

rockchalkjh16 9 years, 4 months ago

It's time to let Elijah sit on the bench and do some thinking about what he's doing here and what it means to be a Jayhawk. I mean really? Right now he's just a cancer to this team. Not a leader, nothing resembling a point guard, turning the ball over at critical moments, not making his free throws, and keeps making the same mistakes that he knows are hurting the team. Yes, the entire bball team shares some of the blame. Nobody is playing as well as we know they can, but Elijah, the senior point guard, has got to shoulder a great deal of the responsibility for this slump, take charge, and send this season in a new direction before it's too late. Also coach Self obviously isn't doing a great job of recognizing what the problems are and fixing them. Beyond disappointed and embarrassed right now. I'm hopeful Monday will be the turning point, where the guys get fired up again and excited to play.

Benjamin Piehler 9 years, 4 months ago

Lets hope EJ doesn't find his way to this board... would hardly help his confidence.

mhebboy 9 years, 4 months ago

I hope he sees every single post written about him! He is toxic! He is awful! Obviously he is not taking anything seriously. Maybe seeing all these posts about his lack of effort, heart and terrible play by KU fans that are tired of watching him be the worst player on the court every single game will help him to wake up!

Brian Skelly 9 years, 4 months ago

I think the idea that we should bench EJ is insane. Sorry. The concept that Tharpe is somehow superior as a PG is folly. Which should tell you what state our PG play is at.

Dont you guys think that Self would play any and all of these kids if he felt he could trust them? Think how much other players who were freshman played in the past. If you can play, and I mean really play -- he'll play you. If your not ready for big time NCAA hoops -- he wont. One can agree or disagree with this philosophy. But its served him (Self) well the past 10 years and prior.

I DO agree with the idea that EJ shouldnt be our 'go to guy' at the end. How we dont make that McLemore 1000000000% of the time at this point is beyond me. It's hard to envision us not being better with McLemore having the ball in his hands more, thats all. Even if EJ or someone else has to give it to him. This issue isnt costing us games... directly.

As someone pointed out on prior post on here... EJ has damn near patented the "late game, back breaking, soul stomping, gut wrenching turnover". I still dont like the fact that Self threw him under the bus last week --- we havent been the same since I might add --- but Self wasnt wrong in his assessment of EJ either. But the reason we dont have a PG isn't EJ's fault... its Selfs. Its not like he didnt have 2 years to recruit some top flight PG... we knew Taylor was leaving.

bwgrace86 9 years, 4 months ago

I agree with some of what you're saying but I'd put Tharpe in over Johnson just because it looks like he cares. Elijah just doesn't seem to care about his turnovers (obviously he does). But showing the emotion can help the team. The team lacks a natural born leader and no one is stepping up to be a made leader.

jankufan 9 years, 4 months ago

All you so called "KU fans" ride Ej's back, but where are all our other seniors in late game situations?

I thought he played well until the end there where pressure got the best of him.

djax 9 years, 4 months ago

Never thought I would say Bill Self doesn't know what he's doing. Bill stop with the ego and play zone when it warrants. Elijah Johnson should NOT play point guard and should come off bench. Something is going on with EJ and I am sure Bill has done everything to motivate that senior! Tharpe should be the PG and Young should start because of his hustle play. Fun Fact. The last time KU lost 3 in a row was the 2004-2005 season (the last loss was again to OU) we lost to Bucknell in the tournament. Future looks bleak. Mr. Self, please start Tharpe he handles the ball better than EJ and it will help with Naadir's growth, he will need the experience next year when EJ is playing in Europe. I know my opinion means nothing to you, just thought I would vent.

Craig Colgin 9 years, 4 months ago

I hate it, but I think maybe it's just time to embrace the reality that this edition of the Jayhawks just isn't very good. They did play harder today than wednesday. Still some possessions that they just flat took off. A great team can take off a possesion or 2 here and there and still comeout on top, even on the road and against a very mediocre team. I think now we just hope they work on getting better than what they are, which is a 3rd or 4th best team in the about the 5th or 6th best conference.

theend 9 years, 4 months ago

We have been spoiled for a long time.....maybe too long. The party could not go on forever. All good things really do come to an end.

It's over.

djax 9 years, 4 months ago

not over until we lose a game in the tournament. is that you EJ?

Dan Harris 9 years, 4 months ago

It.s not over till I say it.s over! It.s not over, I have faith in this team and Self!!!

rockchalkjh16 9 years, 4 months ago

Please, please, PLEASE recruit a point guard. Please.

theend 9 years, 4 months ago

Yes. It's like a football team having no QB.

planojayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Not according to Bill Self. EJ is his guy and EJ is responsible for the 19-1 record before the latest meltdown.

Cody Riedy 9 years, 4 months ago

It's funny, at the beginning of last season, a lot of people were braced to have a bit of a down year and low and behold two good players turn into great players and Self coaches a limited team into a National Championship game. This year, the team has even less top talent and is 19-4 and trending down for sure, but still has plenty of time and opportunity to have a respectable year and yet, suddenly, according to 3/4 of the folks posting on here, Self doesn't know how to coach and the whole program is going down in flames.

theend 9 years, 4 months ago

Well......never thought I would take an interest in the Royals......But I will.

Dan Harris 9 years, 4 months ago

Come on now, don't give up the faith in our Hawks!!!

theend 9 years, 4 months ago

No I will not.......but I just have reason to look elsewhere for sports entertainment now. But you're right wont give up.

jankufan 9 years, 4 months ago

I'll tell you whats "toxic", the negativity from the so called "fans" on this board.

Lloyd Kinnison 9 years, 4 months ago

The Jayhawks have begun losses with the team at the bottom (TCU), next to the middle (OU) and Monday the leaders of the conference (KSU). No discrimation in the loss department. LK

theend 9 years, 4 months ago

Ease up on the boys and give them some credit. They played much better and fought hard. There's no shame in losing on the road to a good team by 6. lets get the boys home Monday and get behind them. That will help their confidence more than anything.

rockchalkjh16 9 years, 4 months ago

I agree with you. We need to stay behind our team and continue to give them our support. It is just quite embarrassing and devastating the way things are going.

theend 9 years, 4 months ago

Look at it this way......KU has won the Big 12 over and over and had great regular seasons......only to lay a big egg in March. This time.......maybe this will expose the problems and get them fixed. So we dont win Big 12.....so what? Heck you never know. In 1988....that team lost 5 of 6 games at one point.

texashawk10 9 years, 4 months ago

EJ and Naadir both make way too many poor decisions, but I'm hugely in favor of Naadir right now because Naadir is at least making his mistakes being too aggressive on offense and if this team is going to down, I'd much prefer to see it happen with someone being too aggressive instead of being too passive like EJ has been.

For those of you who bitched about the Morris twins and T-Rob being too "thuggish" the past 4 years, don't you eish KU had someone with that mentality this year because this is a team full of p***ies this year that just takes it when they get bullied without anyone to stand up for the team like the twins, T-Rob and even Tyshawn did.

druroy32 9 years, 4 months ago

I agree with everything you said except for the thuggish part. I like to refer to it as a swagger. We need a leader on this team. Someone needs to get angry!!!!

texashawk10 9 years, 4 months ago

I never considered those players to be thugs which is why I put quotes around thuggish, but there were plenty of people here who did call them thugs. I do find it funny though that some of those people are also now complaining about this teams lack of toughness and how this team needs one or two of those guys. I never used the term swagger for them either though, but I can go for it because it definitely applies to them.

planojayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

You forgot TRel.

I counted at least 4 open shots that he could take in the 2nd half, but he decided to pull his disappearing act again.

texashawk10 9 years, 4 months ago

I did not forget Releford, I was just referring specifically to the two PGs on the team. Releford, Withey, and McLemore were all guilty of being too passive today when KU really needed them to step up.

PhogAdvisory 9 years, 4 months ago

Okay, boys. I'm sending you all back in time. It's not February anymore. Ignore the calendar. February is crap. The month is now December. Christmas is right around the corner. Your stockings are hung by the windows with care, and you've decked the residence hall with boughs of holly. The fans are not expecting you to win every game. Conference play is nowhere in sight. You are relaxed, you are confident, you are playing like a team that enjoys playing basketball.

And on Monday, you may think you're seeing purple jerseys, but that's just a trick of the light. Those jerseys are black and gold and they belong to Buffaloes.

Get 'em.

Craig Colgin 9 years, 4 months ago

Love my Jayhawks, hope they get past this soon.

druroy32 9 years, 4 months ago

Our offense has looked pathetic the last five games. We do not have a true PG on this team. EJ is not the answer at PG. Mclemore needs to start taking over and being selfish. And they need to give Withey the ball in the post a lot more or at least act like they want to. KU will get knocked in the second round if they keep playing like this. But I don't think it would even bother them if that happened

jaybate 9 years, 4 months ago

I don't recall a team losing its athleticism before. How do you lose that?

I don't recall a Self team that looks less close than this one. How can a team with so many seniors not be close.

I don't recall a Self team not being able to exploit an MUA. this one can't.

I don't recall a team that quit playing Self defense. This one has.

I don't recall a Self staff that could not make adjustments.

Self was palming his face more in the OSU and TCU games than I ever saw before. Today vs. OU he seemed resigned.

Self seems baffled, too.

Craig Colgin 9 years, 4 months ago

What else can we do now but have faith that they can work thru this and improve.

theend 9 years, 4 months ago

Better now than in March. He will figure it out. Really, though, Jaybate.....I think it's simply not enough talent. Not this year. And that's ok. We can't always be great. Our expectations are so high that it can lead to this kind of disappointment. But that's our fault......not the team. They are doing their best. It's just not good enough....at least not this time.

Craig Colgin 9 years, 4 months ago

Agree for the most part, but I refuse to believe that the effort at TCU was their best. Today was better.

squawkhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Self has lost this team of prima donnas.

Chris1955 9 years, 4 months ago

What if a team of seniors, some 5th year seniors, have decided they've had enough of their coach?

What if the seniors are not particualrly close outside of practice?

What if your team suffers below par recruiting results for 2-3 years in a row?

What if your coach has gotten use to being on autopilot until March?

Then you end up with this year's edition of the Jayhawks. Enjoy the past 8 year's worth of championships. All streaks come to an end, and so does this one.

I think you're going to see incredible fight in next year's edition.

KansasComet 9 years, 4 months ago

My disappointment is not in the play of the guards. It is in the fact that we seem to run the same play over and over. No one on the team is creating shots for themselves. This team is stale. I don't think it has anything to do with toughness. We need someone to get on the glass a little better though. Our fast break has looked pretty ragged lately. These are still my guys, and I still believe. Now, maybe some of the younger KU fans, will understand me a little better, when I say appreciate every win. They are not our birthright. They are earned. Go Jayhawks!!

colreader 9 years, 4 months ago

What happens Monday night? KSU lost on the road today to ISU. Both teams must do a quick turnaround. Should we practice on Sunday or take a rest day or a team meeting or.......

theend 9 years, 4 months ago

Ummm....KState is beating ISU by 10 right this second.

planojayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

No more team meeting.

Triple the efforts on defense and rebounding.

EJ defer to Ben on taking shot.

Ben needs to take at least 20 shots.

Sub TRel on offense when he decides to hide himself on offense again.

TexasRockChalk 9 years, 4 months ago

From a fellow DFW RESIDENT, I concur wholeheartedly. McLemore needs to take at least 20 shots a game!

Cody Riedy 9 years, 4 months ago

Not including today's game, EJ is averaging 9.2 ppg, 4.7 apg, 3.2 tpg; last year Tyshawn averaged 16.6 ppg, 4.8 apg, 3.5 tpg. EJ actually has a slightly better Assist:TO ratio, but clearly, Tyshawn was producing a lot more points while accruing those TOs. So EJ is coming up short replacing Tyshawn. But despite all the complaints about E.J., I'd say T-Rob's almost 18 pts 12 reb per game and toughness is the bigger deficit between this year's and last year's team. Last year we had TWO players that could create points on their own. This year we have ZERO players who have shown they can create on their own, except Tharpe at times. That 2:0 ratio is pretty big, and E.J. is not the only one failing to fill it. BMac is really efficient; it's strange actually how quietly such a potential superstar player racks up his 16 ppg sometimes, but the big difference is that his points are generated off of fast break, rebounds, and offense; that is, so far, he's been a scorer, but not an offensive creator/initiator the way TRob and Tyshawn were last year.

Craig Colgin 9 years, 4 months ago

I think we always knew this team would struggle to score largely. Didn't we? They did score well for several games, but maybe the competition just wasn't as good as we thought. Add a shooting slump to an offense that is already not ridiculously high powered and this is probably realistically what you see. It will get better. Just gotta keep thinking it will get better.

Cody Riedy 9 years, 4 months ago

Actually, at least offensively, the total per game stats for this year's team are almost identical to last years teams in terms of points, rebounds, assists, TOs, FG%, FT% and 3PT %. Of course, if the current streak continues, those numbers will change.

Craig Colgin 9 years, 4 months ago

Right, but while the schedule this year looks good on paper as far as RPI(Kenpom) It still isn't as good as last years, meaning playing lesser opponents, and that is on paper. If you look at the W/L columns of the teams we have beaten big, and who they have lost too and such it doesn't look as good.

Bill Shaw 9 years, 4 months ago

I can remember when Williams would make a 5 man substitute to send the players a message.

TexasRockChalk 9 years, 4 months ago

Bill would never do that. That would mean paying homage to Ol' Roy! ;)

druroy32 9 years, 4 months ago

I saw him do it at UNC not to long ago. Brought back some memories with Roy when I saw that. Self can't do that though bcuz our bench is very weak this year. Ellis is one of our best bench players if that tells us anything.

TexasRockChalk 9 years, 4 months ago

Someone explain to me how EJ has the most shots attempted for this game?

As a former Chemistry major @ KU, I wish it was simply as going into the laboratory and coming up with a formula. However, I DO believe it starts with a little HEART!

Pitthawk34 9 years, 4 months ago

Sometimes it takes years like this one to make one really appreciate wins no matter is they are by 20 or 3. If we win Monday we will still be tied for first. things are bad but they could be a lot worse. Look at UNC they are worried about even make the tourney. Oh yes things are bad really bad but could be much much worse.

KU_Mitch 9 years, 4 months ago

EJ is a 2 trying to play a 1... give the kid a little credit..... Maybe tharpe is a better starting option maybe not... but I am not quite as good a coach as Bill Self so I will not question his judgement. What I don't understand is the fools who get on here and bad mouth a GREAT KU team just because they lost 3 in a row. I am over 65 and have suffered through much worse than this so I am not as spoiled as some. I will be at the TV on Monday watching MY Jayhawks play basketball and be excited if they win and disappointed if they don't......but I WILL NOT be any less of a fan either way.... some of you people need to get a new team....like MU or something..... good grief!!!!.

rockchalkjh16 9 years, 4 months ago

But you could certainly understand the deep, deep disappointment KU fans are feeling right now, correct? I think that's what most everyone is expressing here. Everyone is just grasping at straws as to what we could be doing differently to WIN. True KU fans will continue to stand behind our team and support them, but it doesn't mean we aren't feeling a little down in the dumps.

theend 9 years, 4 months ago

I think KU goes 4-4 rest of the regular season......maybe 5-3 if they win vs KState.....but given the recent problems I give that one to KState.

LngTimeFan 9 years, 4 months ago

There is a huge difference between KU fans/programs and KSU. KU EXPECTS to win and strives for excellence. KSU is surprised when they win and don't know how to handle it. Some of the most ridiculous comments and abhorent behavior I have ever seen in sports has been from KSU fans. But, KSU is the better team so far this year, and congratulations to KSU for that!

squawkhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Yeah, kind of the opposite for football though.

AsadZ 9 years, 4 months ago

EJ has lost confidence and he seems to be overburdened with being the team leader

I suggest to start Tharpe and have EJ come off the bench

Tharpe is playing well

This may let EJ relax and give boost to his confidence

Looking at rest of the schedule KSU on paper at least has the key to the title this year

KU_Mitch 9 years, 4 months ago

I know it doesn't make this last week any better....... BUT just for your entertainment...... Missouri 17-6 overall 6-4 SEC...... how can you not smile?

wildjayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

This better be Selfs last year as he can't recruit, just look back to Morningstar, what a dud he was and now KU has Thrarpe. Replace Self with Doc Sadler who knows how to coach. KU will not win anymore than 2 more games, if they are lucky. No tournment at all, stay at home and watch the real teams play in the tournment.

Cody Riedy 9 years, 4 months ago

So since UCLA, Kentucky, Arizona, Texas, Baylor, Providence, UNLV, North Carolina, Michigan State, and North Carolina State all had higher rated recruiting classes last year, but none have a better record than KU, does that mean that all of their coaches should be fired as well, since they can't out-coach the guy they out-recruited?

Craig Colgin 9 years, 4 months ago

I guess you don't remember humiliating many Doc Sadler coached Nebraska teams. Im not saying i know the answer to what ails this team. But Im highly skeptical that it's firing a National title winning coach, with an 80 plus percent win record and hiring a fired nebraska coach whose own stats should be enough to convince a person of the lowest intelligence that he is not close to good enough to be KUs head coach, now or ever.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 4 months ago

After you sober up tomorrow from Mardi Gras and read your post, you're going to swear off drinking. Check out the next recruiting class, Mr,Sunshine....Kansas is rated #2 and if Randle commits to KU, we will be pushing Kentucky for the NUMBER ONE spot.

Yep, old Bill just can't recruit worth a lick...don't be such a chucklhead. It's an insult to your avatar!!!

wildjayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Randle will not want to come to a mediocre team like this one and look at Ellis, just as bad as Morningstar.

monkeehawkSL8 9 years, 4 months ago

Vodka? Shots & beer? You are drunk right? Maybe we should just cancel the basketball program all together. You sound like some kind of jilted teenager after their first break-up. Come to Colorado and get your MM license, fire one up and chill out.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 4 months ago

Well, I have to finally admit that this is a flawed Kansas team, not good, not great. That spells transition season.

HOWEVER, TAKE A LOOK AT THE PAST TRANSITION YEARS FOR NORTH CAROLINA, DUKE, KENTUCKY, UCLA, INDIANA, SYRACUSE, ETC.

They ended up below five hundred, or not making the NCAA, or playing in the NIT. If Kansas splits the rest of their games, they finish in the upper half of their league...make the NCAA's AND maybe win a game or two, end up 26-9 or so...if that's a transition year compared to the rest of the NCAA Powerhouses down years..I'll take it!!!

[By the way Kansas has at least 11 more games, 8 conference, 2 Big12 Tourney, 1 NCAA Tourney..and they'll play more than 11 and do better than 6-5]

Looks like TROB made a good decision about the NBA and Jeff didn't!!

Brian Sharp 9 years, 4 months ago

Don't worry guys theres always football

sbucks 9 years, 4 months ago

The 1988 NC team had 9 losses that year, lost to KState at home and then had to beat them to make the Final Four, I can remember I was sick to my stomach after we lost to KS at home, Monday nites game with them is going to be our biggest game of the year

KWufan 9 years, 4 months ago

ugh, what a frustrating last few games. But here's the positive. K-State on monday is a better match up for our team than the past few teams. We CANNOT handle teams with bigs who can stretch it out from 15 plus feet because of Withey's limitations. The Cats don't have that with Henrequez and Gibson who have to shoot within 5 feet of the goal. Better chance for us to win. I though we came out flat against TCU, definately could tell we didn't respect them and expected to just scare them into playing terrible. As for what I see by us I don't care for. NO hustle for loose balls. Perry dove on one and I think maybe KY did also, but from anyone else I don't see ANY attempt to do dirty work. Mclemore has been exposed for the limited skill set he has, jump shot and dunks. You take those away, dude wouldn't even be sniffing top 5 pick in the draft. And his hustle is non exsistent, not sure why. EJ, wow, i have no idea what to say about him. I am almost positive his knee is wrong, evidence by how much quicker and explosive his video looks in the tournament last yr. Perry Ellis has not developed at all. Can't make a shot with contact. He does try, I'll give him that, but in order for us to improve at this time of year (which every other team is doing whilst we regress) we needed him most of all to start showing something. Our boys need to do the simple little things. Passing is atrocious, we constantly throw a pass to a man who is being played in the passing lane. fake the darn pass and back-door them, we haven't done any backdoors this calendar year I swear!! And for the love of my sanity, practice shooting short shots. Jamari airballs a 5 foot shot. AND IT WAS SHORT NOT LONG!! EJ can't make a driving layup with any type of pressure around him, ditto for Naa. (Although Tharpe looked better today in close with his shooting)

Brian Sharp 9 years, 4 months ago

and i thought beware the phrog was the funniest thing ever last game!!!!!!

Gary Wilson 9 years, 4 months ago

I can't believe people out there still defend EJ's horrendous play. He's easily the worst player on the entire roster, walk-ons excluded. (barely)

theend 9 years, 4 months ago

Hmmmmmm.....And I wonder if you were whining like a little baby last year when he kept hitting clutch shots and got us to the NC game. No......you were probably saying how great he was. Ok.....he's not playing well. But it's really sad to attack these kids that are trying their best.

wildjayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

This team is done, given up and quit. Kansas ST. is the team is Kansas now like they were when Frank M was there. KU will win one more game and thats about it, maybe they might qualify for the low College tournment.

Craig Colgin 9 years, 4 months ago

I sincerely hope and pray that some day your life improves to the point where you can say 1 positive thing.

theend 9 years, 4 months ago

This team is alive,fighting and going. find another team if you don't like them.....if you're even a KU fan to begin with.

theend 9 years, 4 months ago

Make a note of the whiners and crybabies on here.....namely wildjayhawk,sbucks,slick50,etc......I assume they wont be following KU anymore? I assume we will not see them here when KU makes a run toward the National Championship?

Kirkwood 9 years, 4 months ago

I have faith in Bill Self because he IS a great coach. Great coaches surround themselves with great assisstant coaches and we lost a great one last year. I believe we are seeing how devastating the loss of Danny Manning has been on this team. Not only did we lose the swagger of TRob and the heart, determination and leadership of Taylor, we also said goodbye to a Jayhawk icon. I believe the departure of Danny Manning has had a much bigger impact than first anticipated. Any thoughts on this point??

theend 9 years, 4 months ago

I agree. But it's not over. Losing 3 in a row seems like a big deal but it's not. Louisville lost 3 in a row and they turned it around and ranked 10 or 11 now.

jay381 9 years, 4 months ago

I understand your question. I put the problem in a little different perspective. If the biggest part of the problem was the "bigs" Danny coached I would agree. However I think given the physical limitations and frame of the "bigs" we getting more out of them than any other position. The problem is the lack of guard play which leads me to the root cause of the problem in my opinion.

Self had some great recruiting classes in the first years. Some assistants got HC jobs. I told my brother two years ago something had happened big time to the recruiting process at Kansas. We just hit a funk for a about 3 years we were number 2 on the list of too many number 1 recruits and it has cost us big time.

Bottom line I do not think the coaches got dumb the last 5 weeks but rather the successive failures in recruiting are now obvious. Frankly this team is too light, too slow, lacks basketball intelligence (or what you call it ball smarts whatever), lacks leadership.

The positive thing is it does appear we have a good class of recruits for next year. I sure hope so because if you look at this roster once this class graduates there are few upperclassmen which again goes back to the 3 year funk in recruiting. I just went to the official roster and even as closely as I follow the team I was shocked to discover the only JR was Niko Roberts and the only two SO's were Tharpe and a Christian Garrett (have no idea who he is however he is listed on the roster on the KU athletic site).

Fundamentally what we have is some fine kids that are seniors but not NBA talent, 2 missed recruiting classes where we should have strength, and a few potentially talented FR that hopefully will develop.

That mix is not a championship brew in any game.

Rockchalkfever 9 years, 4 months ago

If you are a true KU fan, one must have trust in Coach Self and the team. Keep the faith. Lets rock them kitty cats on Monday !

Niraj Shah 9 years, 4 months ago

I hope the team comes out with the drive and hunger a desperate team needs on Monday. Let's get after those kitties.

Milhawkee 9 years, 4 months ago

What if Bmac was the point and passed it every time he is double-teamed like Kobe has been lately?

We just got to get our shots to go IN! I swear we are due for a 90% shooting performance.

planojayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

11 - 20 FTM - A. 4 more FTM + 1 more 3 pt made = 7 pts => KU won by 1 pt, 73 - 72.

EJ 3 - 11 FGM - A. If a few of these FGA was shot attempt by Ben, I am very sure that Ben would at least gotten a 3 out of these.

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