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Realignment Today: How nothing and something can be happening at the same time

During the past couple of weeks, I've been approached by dozens of people who have asked me why I haven't written much lately about conference realignment, or at least what's left of this latest round.

The reason is simple: Nothing's happening.

Now when I say nothing, I mean nothing of any substance. Sure Big Ten, SEC and Big 12 officials are constantly keeping one eye glued to the realignment landscape and, as any wise person knows, all of these groups (and more) are developing ever-evolving contingency plans, you know, just in case.

The Big 12 Conference is no different, which makes perfect sense considering the conference's stance is no different today than it was two weeks ago or two weeks before that or two months before that.

The league is happy with 10. It likes the round-robin scheduling set-up and enjoys watching the cash register ring and ding a little longer and louder when it's time to dish out money to its members.

Could this change? You bet. Could it change sometime soon? Sure. Has it changed at any level or in any way yet? Nope.

As anyone reading this update probably already knows, the one thing standing in the way of national conference stability and another mudslide is the Big Ten and it's intentions regarding the ACC. If the Big Ten moves to poach a couple more teams from the ACC — say, in this case, North Carolina and Georgia Tech — that almost certainly will trigger a response from the SEC and the Big 12. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know there, but it is worth noting because I feel strongly that it's the only way (at least right now) that more movement occurs.

Remember, at one point, when the Big 12 looked vulnerable and appeared to be falling apart, even those teams in the league that were on the outside looking in were working their butts off to line up a soft landing. I've been told that if the ball starts rolling, several ACC schools in that same position would do the same thing, perhaps even more aggressively. If that were to become the case and movement did happen, you could probably kiss the ACC goodbye. No hail mary. No last-minute save by league commissioner John Swofford. Just a bunch of new divisions and new rivalries and odd travel.

So if we all know that already, what's the point of this specific post? I guess it's to remind you — or perhaps caution you — that just because someone (even a very powerful someone) comes out and says something regarding realignment that does not mean anything's actually new.

Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby's statements last week in Dallas about the league were interesting and certainly served as good conversation starters, but they weren't really anything new.

Here’s the complete recap from CBSsports.com's Dennis Dodd, who does a good job of looking at this thing from all sides. But for those of you not interested in sifting through the whole story, here's a quick look at the key quotes.

1.“We could be proactive, I think,” Bowlsby said.

2.“We continue to watch the landscape,” Bowlsby said. “Until we're persuaded that larger is better we feel pretty good about right where we are.”

3.“That's exactly one of the questions we'll be asking ourselves,” Bowlsby said.

What do all of those quotes have in common? Easy. They all continue to speak of a conference that's happy with its current set-up but wise enough (this time around) to not get caught off guard if something were to happen.

In the past few weeks, rumors have run wild about the Big 12 being in line to add four ACC schools and it just being a matter of which ones the league wants. There also has been more talk about KU and the Big Ten — I can tell you that no conversations have taken place on that front — and, of course, there continues to be discussion about the Big 12 being vulnerable and the Grant of Rights agreement not being as strong as many conference officials suggest.

The rumors will always be there. And a few of them will even be fun to read. Who doesn't like the idea of traveling to Miami or Tallahassee, Fl., in the middle of the Kansas winter?

The Big 12 athletic directors are scheduled to meet Jan. 28-29 in Dallas and what is to take place at those meetings varies depending upon whom you're talking to. Some in the league say realignment will be the top item on the agenda and that they believe it's time for the league to get serious about a plan to expand. Others, including multiple league sources whom I spoke with this week, say realignment will likely be kicked around — as it always is — but that issues such as scheduling, future championships and other financial matters will garner just as much attention.

Without being in the meetings and without those meetings taking place yet, it's hard to know exactly what will or even should happen. Perhaps we'll know more when they're behind us. Or perhaps it will be more of the same, with the Big 12 sitting pretty at 10 and the rest of the world around it debating whether the league should expand to 12, 14 or 16.

Either way, it looks as if the Big 12 has options. And, in this game, that's a good thing.

I'll leave you with a new installment of the sacred percentage wheel, which, based on my conversations with people around the league, gauges (at this point) how likely the Big 12 is to move to expand in the next several months:

  1. Big 12 stays at 10 - 64%
  2. Big 12 adds 2 - 18%
  3. Big 12 adds 4 - 14%
  4. Big 12 adds 6 - 3%
  5. Others poach Big 12 - 1%

Here's a look at a few other articles that might be of interest, at least to those of you who, like me, find all of this equal parts fascinating, maddening and twisted. Enjoy!

This report from The Washington Post brings us up to speed on the legal activity involving Maryland and the ACC: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/terrapins-insider/wp/2013/01/18/maryland-attorney-general-moves-to-dismiss-accs-lawsuit-against-maryland/

This update, from Orangebloods.com's Chip Brown, paints a picture of some more serious discussions at the AD's meetings next week: http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1463673

Here's another post on Bowlsby's comments from Dave Miller of the National Football Post, who says the Big 12 is on the clock: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/big-12-clock-conference-realignment-103000567--nfl.html

This report, from Teddy Greenstein of the Chicago Tribune, explores the possibility that the Big Ten might not stop expanding until it reaches 18 teams: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-01-05/sports/ct-spt-0106-northwestern-football--20130106_1_brian-arnfelt-big-ten-nu-fans

Finally, here's a nice way to keep track of all of realignment's moving pieces, put together by collegesportsinfo.com. Take a look when you've found a comfortable setting and have got your mind right: http://collegesportsinfo.com/conference-realignment-grid/

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Comments

JHWKDW 1 year, 2 months ago

Folks the only conference that will be gone very soon thank god is the Big Least conference. Thank goodness for that for everyone. Glad KU did not join that loser conference. Hey with the Basketball Catholic schools, and all the defections (Boise, Louisville Pitt,SD State) going on there they will be gone like dust in the wind HOORAY!

Folks the ACC aint going nowhere they will lose some teams here and there but they will be around.They got alot more people & money behind them to back them up.Notre Dame would not have joined them if things were as bad as supposedly it is.Think about it! Screw adding teams from the A-Holes & Childish Crybaby conference otherwise known a the ACC. Do not want any part of Clemson or Florida State, or any of those malcontent jerks in the ACC Screw them, there are no angels in that conference trust me.It is not like our conference where Texas is the soul troublemaker. In addition folks why would they want to join a conference that is basically a Monarchy run by Texas Longhorns? Plus Texas has said they will block any other team that makes more then 10.You really think they want to trade the troubles they got there to come to this Jerry Springer like mess we got here in the Lousy Big XII minus 2 teams really? .I do not think so!

Anyway our best bet in the future is to wither try and get in the Big1G or the Pac-12.

There will be 4 major Conference for each region/geography. East-A.C.C., North Big 1G, West Pac-12 (or whatever it will be in the future) and the SEC for the South. Do not see where the Lousy Big XII minus 2 teams and never will be 12 again fits in.

Hopefully we will be Longhorn free in the Future!

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Josh Galler 1 year, 2 months ago

Big 12 and ACC Merge with 5 teams after Big 10 adds UVA and GA Tech SEC adds NC State and Va Tech, Big 12 adds FSU, Miami, Clemson, Louisville, Pitt, BYU, then the remainding ACC Teams, Syracuse, UNC, Duke, SC, BC, Wake adds Cincy, Temple, USF, UCONN, ND (FB agmt still in tact), and UCF for 12 teams, Pac 12 adds Boise State, SDSU, SMU and Houston

Using KU as sample, KU plays all 15 teams for the conference season, one season play all home games vs your division and road gams vs the other division and alternate each year, and for the 16th conference game would be against your "rival" so KU play all 14 games vs one team, and then play home and home vs KSU. in FB for the you play 7 games in division and your rival home and home and then have a true championship game vs the other division, and team can schedule 4 non-con winnable games

The rivals for this possibility be these of course some of rivals be what? ISU-BYU KU-KSU OU-OSU UT-Tech TCU-Baylor WVU-Pitt FSU-Miami Louisville-Clemson

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CrystalJones 1 year, 2 months ago

I don't care what happens to us, as long as we don't have to deal with KSU fans anymore. Just like another poster said, I am so sick of them lording it over us in football for the past 20 years. We had a brief moment of success, but now they're back to steamrolling us.

And I know we dominate everybody in basketball, and that's nice...but, hell, Butler and Gonzaga are basketball schools. I wish we were also a football school. I can't stand the farmers down the road, and I hate it that they won another conference championship and then look down their noses at us.

Let's just separate ourselves from the farmers...getting really tired of those jerks. Maybe Charlie can start kicking their butts.

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jhawkrulz 1 year, 2 months ago

Things that matter:

1) Academics

2) TV Markets

3) National Brand

Things that don't matter:

1) Geography

2) Rivalries

3) How good they are in Football

1

mahkmood 1 year, 2 months ago

I don't see how Clemson is more valuable than Syracuse or Miami. I don't like Clemson. I don't like TCU either. I hope the Clemson talk goes away.

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hotrodm 1 year, 2 months ago

The Big 12 fell asleep and watched Louisvile go to the ACC. That was a big mistake, thank Texas for that scew up. Expand or die Big 12. Go after FSU and Clemson now and let them join the lawsuit against the ACC, with Maryland on the exit fee. Get to at least 12 schools ASAP, before it is too late.

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William Blake 1 year, 2 months ago

Let's face it... the B12 has played out most of the league's cards now... we've lost the Border Wars with Mizzou, OU NU football.... done... A&M UT... adios...

What is left? Bedlam Bowl... KU KSU... (?)

Anyone want to appraise the revenue/power/media/identity loss from my first paragraph?

What is left of the B12? All egos aside...

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Jay Dogger 1 year, 2 months ago

Whether the Big 12 moves to 12, 14 or 16 by adding eastern/ACC teams, I wonder about the divisions. I assume TX, OK and OK St. are in the same division, so the question is whether KU, K-State and Iowa St. join with West Virginia and the other 2, 3 or 4 eastern teams...or it's Tech, Baylor and TCU drawing the short straws.

Thoughts?

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jgkojak 1 year, 2 months ago

CBS article is interesting - that tells me the B12s big play is to enter into some sort of agreement that makes it less profitable to re-align than to stay put - which makes total sense.

I still think in that climate WVU was a mistake and we would have been better off with BYU - we become kind of like the Pac-12 - separate from all that eastern stuff going on and they pretty much leave us alone.

Heck, they probably should have done a 20 team conference --

The Big 20 - the east and west divisions play complete round-robin bball and football (as the Big 12 does now) and they play a champ game between the two divisions -

EAST ISU, KU, KSU, OU, OSU, Texas, Baylor, TTCH, Colorado, Utah

WEST Old Pac-10

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William Blake 1 year, 2 months ago

When the strongest football team in your conference is Kansas State you better be sweating it out and actively looking for schools with real football!

It's time to s___ or get off the pot!

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Kevin Huffman 1 year, 2 months ago

Pretty easy. Just destroy current conferences and realign by geography.

West, South Midwest East

16 for out West = UCLA, USC, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Orgeon State, Washington, Washington State, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas & Texas Tech (PAC-12 & SW Big XII stalwarts)

16 for in the South = Florida, Florida State, Miami, Louisville, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Clemson, South Carolina, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Texas A&M & Kentucky (mixture of SEC & southern ACC schools (south of NC)

16 for in the Midwest = Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Iowa, Iowa State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri & Arkansas (MOST of Big Ten, Northern Big XII schools + former Big XII MU & former SWC school Arkansas)

16 for in the East = UConn, Boston College, Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt, Penn State, Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, N.C. State, Wake Forest, Duke, Notre Dame & Cincinnati (mostly ACC including some potential future ACC current Big East schools)

I think in the scenario I have above only a VERY few schools get screwed....namely the ones I can see right away are Baylor, Vandy, South Florida & TCU. They could be the start of an 8 to 12 team "Off Chance" league....IN CASE one of them could out of the clear blue be in contention. Maybe some other schools like BYU, Temple, San Diego State & Houston could constitute that conference or something.

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mahkmood 1 year, 2 months ago

Wait... my previous post won't happen because the U.S. government crashes treasury bills by Q4 2014. Financial armageddon and political polarization results in the succession of the state of Texas, which creates its own country and currency (100% backed by gold with Ron Paul's face on the bills)... which expands by absorbing the other red states. The Orange Bloods finally get what they have wanted all along... Austin is the national capitol of the Peoples Republic of Texas, characterized by: Guns, beer, gas-guzzlers, cattle-ranches, NASCAR, country music, fast-food, Wal-Mart, bible thumpin, and the Texas Network (UT, OU, OSU, KU, KSU, NU, MU, Arkansas, LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, MissState, Tenn, UK, Hoosiers, Georgia, GT, UNC, USouthCarolina, Duke, NCST, Notre Dame, WVU, Clemson)

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Alex Laughlin 1 year, 2 months ago

It's the Big 12. Let's go back to 12.

0

JayHawkFanToo 1 year, 2 months ago

If we are going to have three super conferences, why not just two? or one Super Conference with all the current BCS teams as members and the top 8 have a playoff to determine the champion in football?

The Big 12 has absolutely optimized revenue and member teams get the highest share of any conference, why change that? To maintain the revenue, any team that comes to the conference would have to bring close to $30M per year in additional revenue to the conference just to maintain the status quo; I just don't see that many schools that would add that much income.

In addition , the conference footprint, West Virginia notwithstanding, is better than most, meaning shorter trips for the teams and fans.

Also, no one has come up with a better number of teams for a conference. With 10 members you play everybody in FBall leaving schools 3 out of conference games, and in BBall you play and home and away games with all conference schools. With a larger number of teams you just cannot do this.

Bigger is not necessarily better, and change for the sake of change is not that much better either, Why change something that seems to be working well for its members? Coach Self has said pretty much the same thing.

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mahkmood 1 year, 2 months ago

I think there are going to be only 3 "super conferences" instead of 4. The 3 super conferences will each have their own network and be rich: PAC, B1G, SEC. The B12, ACC, and BigEast dissolve. The B12 has good teams, but too many small markets for a network... bye. The ACC has too many wanted markets sandwiched between B1G and SEC networks... bye.

B1G picks up: UNC, GT, UT, KU, FSU, UVA SEC picks up: OU, NCST, VT, WVU PAC jumps east: Duke, Syracuse, Pitt, UConn, ND, BC

Some other schools will get lucky and fall in to one of these big 3 conferences. The leftovers will join the not so super "Super Conference USA", or be independents.

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Janet Scott 1 year, 2 months ago

This just in: Washburn and Baker U will join the ACC; Topeka High will join the Big 10.

0

Chris Shaw 1 year, 2 months ago

BTW, if you guys like "Rumors" and you enjoy reading about this stuff. Calhawk and Alex on theshiver have done a really good job over the last 3 months of posting the latest rumorville stuff going on. Take it however you want, but at least it keeps you up to speed with the main blogs across the country and what their saying.

http://theshiver.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15366&page=15

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Woody Cragg 1 year, 2 months ago

You guys all have waaaaaaaaaaay too much time on your hands. Occaisionally I resort to a book or hobby to further my somewhat trivial existance. Just saying...

0

Kyle Sybesma 1 year, 2 months ago

Maybe it's in a post somewhere but I didn't see anything on the impact of Notre Dame. If the SEC strikes with NC State & V Tech or the B1G strikes again at UNC & G Tech I think it would cause a domino effect putting Notre Dame on the table again. Florida State has W Virginia as a travel partner and Notre Dame makes 12 IF that's as far as they want to go but since the ACC is falling apart the Big 12 may as well go to the magic 16. Add Syracuse, Clemson, Pittsburgh and Boston College. (Other possibilities: Duke, Louisville, UConn, Virginia)

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jhawkrulz 1 year, 2 months ago

I always think the Big XII is the most vulnerable conference. When you look at each conference, now specifically the ACC and Big XII, the schools in each are way better in the ACC. When you look at the Big XII, we have OSU, KSU, ISU, Baylor, and TCU, which no other major (BCS) conference would want. If TV markets are driving the decision, there are half of the schools in the Big XII that people won't be going after. I actually think the ACC will stick together, they might lose a NC State, or one other team, but the Big Ten will go to 16 (and will be the first). If the offer is made to KU. Accept it, and work out the fees just like the rest of the schools did.

2

BPSkelly 1 year, 2 months ago

"Big 12 picks last". Thats the reality in my estimation. Not truly last, but certainly after the Big 10 or SEC. I think it beheaves us to think that way. That doesnt mean it will be that way. Maybe Bevo throws its @#$% around to the benefit of the conference and convinces all 2,4,6 teams we want that the Big 12(14,16) is the place to be.

I still think the ideas of Big 10 goes after the ACC AAU schools -- UVA, UNC, GaTech, BC -- makes sense. All moves expand their TV base... which as they have show is really what they are after. Yes, I know KU is an AAU school. It's also bring in KC which is dwarfed by the markets those other 4 could bring. Lets just be honest about that part and not keep hope alive here with this idea. I think the 'good' for the Big 12 is here is none of those schools are likely targets... with exception of GaTech because of Atlanta.

The SEC is a different animal here. If they decided the wanted FSU and/or Clemson they'd get them. The Georgia, Florida, South Carolina resistances to those guys is real and not false. But to get what is likely the best and likely 2nd (or close) best program that is 'on the list' (im not counting Notre Dame here) my guess is there could be some movement there. If not? The VaTech / NC State thing to me still has tons of merit. New markets and geographical continuity.

The reality in my mind is that IF they go East and get FSU / Clemson they wont stop there. Getting those guys to join likely requires a move to 14 or 16. As to whom that would be? My guess is any of those who arent picked prior are in play. After those two Id try to go get GaTech and Miami. Yea or nea? Try NC State / Va Tech. Next? Id go get Louisville -- they should have done that before -- and/or some combo of Pitt/Cincy... Id even gun for Syracuse, but my guess is they'd never do it.

There are going to options whichever what this falls. The question is will be they great options (maybe) or lesser options (possibly). Again, I just dont think we have much pull unless Bevo decides this is happening -- and lets face it, thats whats needed here -- we maybe on to something.

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Tony Bandle 1 year, 2 months ago

We're discussing leaving the track in Memorial?? YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!

Tell you what..let's leave the track in Memorial and build a new football stadium in Rock Chalk Park. We can put a retractable roof, hang a 100,000 s.f. four sided video board and charge $50 for a pizza!!

This idea is no dumber than the first one!!!

IT MUST BE FRIDAY!!!

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Bruce Bertsch 1 year, 2 months ago

About the B1G...Why would they want Pitt when they already have PSU? One is much more valuable than the other even after the scandals.

Why is everyone enamored with FSU? All you get is Tallahassee and a slightly above average program. This isn't the old Bobby Bowden FSU, its Jimbo version which is more akin to Iowa State than OU or Texas.

IMHO West Virginia was a mistake. If you want TV viewers, forget playing on Sundays and go get BYU.

Please get rid of the "Everyone wants to recruit Texas" attitude. Ask Big Game Bob in Norman how is Texas recruiting is going lately. With the emergence of aTm and the addition of two more D1 programs what is really left? If you think that Alabama or Georgia is creaming their jeans to get at Texas recruits, I've got some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

Bottom line is that nothing should happen until the ACC v Maryland is resolved. I see it heading to Federal Court and everything hinging upon whether or not exit fees are an illegal restraint that violates anti-trust law. BTW, if the turtles win on that basis, realignment will be a free-for-all as it also likely would mean that the GOR is not valid.

0

Phoghorn 1 year, 2 months ago

KU Track and Field sure seems to be on the rise lately. Hopefully this will bring the Kansas Relays back to national prominence. This is a good justification for leaving the track in Memorial Stadium.

Having a major track event at KU every year has got to make us more attractive to other conferences.

0

jaybate 1 year, 2 months ago

But Virginia is a very tough get. Its traditions and political independence depend largely on staying in the ACC alliance of states unless the Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas/West Virginia Energy Alliance (TOKWVEA) can drive a wedge into the ACC states by adding Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson and NC State and sooner, or later, Virginia. These are the teams the Big 12 has to add to create a viable eastern time zone footprint necessary to hold WVU, and these are the states the TOKWVEA has to have regime change in in order to impose their control on the 21st Century energy and distribution corridor both axes of private oligarchy--the red and the blue--are competing for private control of.

Bowlsby's position is this. We are happy at 10, but want to expand.

Sure. That's why it still calls itself the Big 12. That's why the Big 12 expanded to 12 in the first place. Umm, Bowlsby has to talk out of both sides of his mouth while the powers that be figure out whether to keep stalling for a Republican President, or get out their check books and start buying universities and states now to create an eastern time zone footprint.

Put another way, Bowlsby's words appear to be a way of saying that right now the TOKWVEA will stand pat and wait for the next Presidential election to really start throwing its weight around again, or it will go to war right now, if anyone takes further steps to make its life more difficult down the road.

And remember that all of this is unfolding during the run-up to a potentially massive war in the Middle East. A massive war in the Middle East, i.e., the covert war in Syria erupting first into an Iranian War, and then into a central Asian war for the Caspian Basin and the Stans, also. A major war on this scale could force the reds and the blues in private oligarchy to have to "cooperate" in controlling the creation and formation of the North American energy and distribution super corridor that would become imperative for fighting such a war. But if peaceful solutions are found to Iran and the Caspian Basin, then the reds and the blues will go back to fighting each other tooth and nail to see who gets to control the privatization of energy and distribution infrastructures in North America.

So: both red and blue axes of private oligarchy have to sort out when and how big the war in the Middle East is going to be before they can get back to domestic issues of who gets to control the privatized energy and distribution infrastructure, and in turn which states, and their universities, have to be realigned in order for one side, or the other to prevail.

So: conference expansion hangs in limbo with a lot of contingencies being negotiated behind the scenes.

Next.

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jaybate 1 year, 2 months ago

"Hypothesis Time Again in the jaybate School of Real Athletik Politik and Economik"

First, regardless of where Notre Dame sides in the short term, ND remains a wild card with a football team that could yet jump anywhere at a moment's notice anytime to achieve maximum political economic benefit for the school and the church it is affiliated with.

Why?

Notre Dame is unbelievably crucial in this particular issue of political economy, because it wields large political influence in Indiana, the lone red state in the Big Ten. Indiana is the only political economic chink in the Big Ten alliance of states. And it is a red state in a sea of blue, through which a lateral of the eventual Northeast Super Corridor can be routed directly to Lake Michigan (from the Ohio Valley) and into the state of Michigan, where huge monies are still being spent by TOKWVEA (Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas/West Virginia Energy Alliance) in pursuit of regime change.

Both red and blue axes of private oligarchy are apparently fighting hard to land Notre Dame and its ally the Catholic Church in this region of the country.

Nothing is settled about Notre Dame yet IMHO. It waits to see who is going to be the most powerful axis of private oligarchy before it chooses sides both in conference and in political alignment vis a vis the laying of the 21st Century North American energy and distribution infrastructure. Why does it care about this sort of thing? For the same reason all other large players do. Whoever privatizes control of the North American energy and distribution infrastructure will become indefinitely the king of North America. You don't want to be on the wrong side of the king.

I have said since the election, when Virginia went blue, and well before anyone was mentioning Virginia as a Big Ten prospect, that the Big Ten would make a big play for Virginia for sure. The only way to completely block the Northeast Super Corridor extension in to mid eastern seaboard, and to completely stonewall the northerly extension of the eastern seaboard gas pipe, which already extends from from Grand Bahamas to south Florida, and needs to go up the eastern seaboard to eventually connect up with the Northeast Super Corridor Extension, is for the Big Ten states to take Virginia into regional alliance permanently. Part of doing that is to take Virginia's major university as a pork conduit. If the Big Ten does this, then this cuts off the Northeast Super Corridor's passage from West Virginia through Virginia to east coast ports in the mid atlantic states, and to connecting up with the gas pipe out of Florida.

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DB Ashton 1 year, 2 months ago

I'm not even slightly up-to-date and I deplore all these dollar-driven shifts away from traditional rivalries and geographical/educational affinities. But I've been on the Arkansas bandwagon since the Big 7, I have gut feeling Oklahoma and Texas will ultimately settle in the west and I've long believed KU and MU would be more naturally placed in what was the Big 10. Is it not nuts to contemplate a traveling circus that might include the likes of BYU, Texas, Florida State and West Virginia? Is this not obviously and simply absurd? Even dismissing the academic interests of the athletes, the expense, and the university's alleged mission -- clearly no longer of interest to almost anyone?

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THE_REAL_DEAL_WITH_BILL_MCNEIL 1 year, 2 months ago

So, Matt...

Have you been able to get your hands on the Certificate of Incorporation yet so we can see what it takes for the Big 12 to dissolve? Similarly, have you seen the actual Grant of Rights agreement?

1

THE_REAL_DEAL_WITH_BILL_MCNEIL 1 year, 2 months ago

ACC is stable. Big 12 isn't adding any teams. Nothing to see here. Move along.

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William Weissbeck 1 year, 2 months ago

OK, now with bowl season over, please someone tell me again why not adding Louisville and letting A&M go were good things? Granted they still have to play the games, but the scouting sources have A&M cleaning UT and OU's clocks on recruiting. And looking on the BB side of the ledger ND and Louisville to the ACC doesn't threaten KU and the Big 12 how? I see a big ESPN BB contract in the future that will make the ACC financially stable. Just like the Big 12, they only need two big dogs at the top of the FB world to survive. Florida State is one. They've got Louisville, Miami and Tech to compete for the other spot. We may now have to rely on Baylor to be our saviour?

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Chris Shaw 1 year, 2 months ago

A couple of things from reading the posts:

1) Big 12 will never get Virginia. Their academics, AAU standing, and geography don't fit Big 12. Big 10 Network currently is not in Virginia or Maryland (D.C.) and that is why Big 10 went after Maryland and are currently courting Virginia. From the rumorville I have read, Vriginia has filed for the application.

2) Big 10 wants UNC, but it's not mutual. Big 10 if can't get UNC will go after GT and BC in that order to get up to 16 and stop for now.

3) SEC wants UNC and is willing to take Duke to broaden their 'Basketball Branding". SEC doesn't want Miami, FSU, GT or Clemson and would consider NC State if it can't get UNC. VT is another option to get into Virginia. Then again it could be a front to fool the Big 12 again, which would not surprise me in the least.

4) On that final note in #3 above, when FSU reached out to Big 10, but Big 10 said no thanks, Big 12 officials finally got nervous again.

5) Big 12 may get up to 12 again, but FSU doesn't want to come without regional partners like Miami, Clemoson and any combination of GT, VT, and NC State. I think if Big 12 is able to accomplish anything it goes to 14 beause of FSU's request.

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texashawk10 1 year, 2 months ago

Matt, what's your gut feeling on Duke and Wake Forest and where those two schools end up when the ACC implodes?

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Jim Jackson 1 year, 2 months ago

Latech and NIU have as much a shot at joining the Big 12 as Harvard and Yale do.

I think we should add BYU and FSU. I think it was silly to let ACC get Louisville.

If not those 2 add SMU, they have smokin hot girls and a wealthy alumni base. Lol

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kuguardgrl13 1 year, 2 months ago

Since we're talking so much about ACC schools...

Pitt is about ready to leave the Big East and head into the ACC. They probably didn't consider this when the deal was signed, but they're going from one failing conference to another. Their old rival WVU is now in the Big 12 as is TCU who at one point was going to the Big East. Does Pitt really want to head into the mess that is the ACC should Maryland get out somewhat unscathed? Probably not. That means they will probably look elsewhere. As an AAU school, the SEC is out. The culture is completely wrong. Big 12 and B1G are much better fits. B1G is AAU strong and brings Pitt and Penn State back together after ages apart. Although maybe Pitt wants to keep the distance there. The Big 12 has former rival WVU. For us, Pitt brings more market in the northeast, Heinz Field (Pitt's home as well as the Steelers) and the PGH airport, AAU status and decent academics all around, and a renowned med school and hospital system (really good for KU Med to partner with). They also have decent football and pretty good basketball. Pittsburgh is also home to the new Consol Energy Center. You may all remember a few years back when the Pittsburgh Penguins were being courted to play in the Sprint Center. Well, Pittsburgh and Mario Lemieux convinced them to stay with the Consol Energy Center. Pitt doesn't play there normally (it's the home of Duquesne University), but it's possible a deal could be worked out much like KU and the Sprint Center. But of course I'm only a student who can speculate.

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Lifelong_Jayhawk 1 year, 2 months ago

Let's add Louisiana Tech - get a foothold in SEC territory - and Northern Illinois - foothold in Chicago and Big 10 territory and a BCS buster.

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milehighhawk 1 year, 2 months ago

I'm a little surprised to learn Matt thinks there's a greater than 40% chance the B12 will add teams in the next 3-6 months.

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iamakufan 1 year, 2 months ago

So would an 18-team conference comprise two divisions, each of which play regular season games against only the other members of their division, then the division winners play a championship game? Or maybe in other than football there would be a tournament of the top three or four teams from each division? Just some random thoughts.

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Steve Hillyer 1 year, 2 months ago

Matt You wrote there has been more talk recently of KU and the Big Ten coming together, where is this talk originating? Other than the Rivals article, Omaha World Herald which were a couple of months ago I haven't read anything other than twitter blog stuff which I don't put much stock in.

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jgkojak 1 year, 2 months ago

The B8/B12 made a series of mistakes that led us to where we are. The keys:

1) 1990: Denying Arkansas membership. Arkansas wanted into the B8 in 1990 (yes, to get away from Texas in the SW Conference). Had we added Arkansas, its likely they'd still be with us. Certainly that leads to:

2) 1996: Baylor Adding Baylor was a political decision to appease Ann Richards, the Gov of Texas (much as I love her). Had we had Arkansas, we would only have needed A&M, TX and TTCH, meaning the balance of power would very much be out of Texas and the old SW Conf (Arkansas, remember, hates Texas as much as we do). I don't think this saves Nebraska and Colorado from leaving when they did, but I think it saves Mizzou.

3) 1996: BYU: Had Baylor not been pushed, BYU was the next on the list. This would have given the B12 a national power to counter Texas.

Any one or combination of these probably saves the B12 from any danger of being in the position its in now.

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JayDocMD 1 year, 2 months ago

For the sake of the long term survival of the Big 12, I'm hoping that there is more going on than what is being said. I just don't think it's reasonable to think that a "power conference" can sit at 10 members if everyone else expands to 14 or 16 (or beyond?)

I think a school like Oklahoma sees the success of A&M's move to the SEC and starts to position themselves for a similar move in 8-10 years. I know a lot can change in that period of time, but this grant of rights won't last forever and the moves that are made now will impact the viability of this conference for the next 25 years.

Hopefully everyone is just waiting to see what happens with the Maryland lawsuit. If they escape tthe ACC without too much financial damage, we need to have lined up schools like Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami and/or FSU to come on board. If those type of discussions aren't taking place right now, I believe this current grant of rights agreement will be the last.

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Eric Baker 1 year, 2 months ago

Matt, can you confirm what I've been hearing recently about Big 12 schools receiving, on average because of the new media deal, more money per program than any other conference?

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Robert Brown 1 year, 2 months ago

The Orangeblood article was very good because looked at this from a strategic point of view. They obviously have some good sources. It is hard for me to imagine the Big 12 taking 4-6 teams but maybe I am still thinking that the old Big 12 is still making decisions for the conference. Remember Bowlsby was one of the power brokers in the PAC 12 when they tried to take 6 Big 12 schools a few years ago, so maybe he can architect a similar bold vision for the Big12.

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William Blake 1 year, 2 months ago

You nailed it, bradynsdad.

People need to think of the B12 as one big marriage... primarily because, it is!

We've already been the victims of a few nasty divorces... and then we reacted in haste and we married the first couple of willing brides we could find. I'm not saying marrying WVU and TCU were a mistake.. no wait... yes I am! Anyone in here know what a Horny Toad is? Bucaneer? I still can't spell "Bucaneer!"

The quiet time we have now is called "courting time." And we should be quietly dating some lovely universities that offer quite a bit more than what a horny toad or drunk sailor have to offer.

FSU is the catch of the century! I still can't believe that bride is available at the altar. What are we waiting for? Another drunk, horny toad?

Shotgun marriages simply don't work. Let's get real.

We aren't happy with 10... we are just happier that we haven't had a divorce in a while.

Last time I checked our conference was called "The Big 12." How much longer are we willing to exist in the lie of who we are and in violation of our Big 12 wedding vows? I'm sick of explaining to the outside world why we are called 12 but only have 10... because the only explanation is two of our members cheated on their marriage vows and ran off and eloped with a bunch of Southerners.

Anyone else in here sitting ready with a handful of rice?

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jgkojak 1 year, 2 months ago

If Virginia goes anywhere, its the Big 10 - VA has extremely prestigious academics and would not sully itself with either the B12 or the SEC.

There are basically 8 ACC teams in play - w/percent chances if something happens: FSU --> 80% B12, 20% SEC (Florida has reportedly been loosening up on its objections) Clemson --> 80% B12, 20% ACC (the SEC doesn't want 'em) Ga Tech --> 50% ACC, 30% B10, 20% B12 Miami --> 80% ACC, 20% B12 UNC --> 67% ACC, 33% B10 VA --> 75% ACC, 25% B10 NC State --> 60% ACC, 40% SEC VA Tech --> 60%ACC, 40% SEC

Basically - I see a chance the B10 targets UNC and Virginia or maybe Ga Tech (Virginia and UNC would keep the B10 contiguous, which is actually important to them). I just don't see UNC leaving its incredibly favorable travel to go to yet another conference where their football team gets beat up every week. So assuming the B10 keeps its hands off...

The SEC would have to target Va Tech and NC State, who would leave for the same reasons TX A&M left. I think this is the more likely move. There is an outside chance they go for FSU instead, mainly as a block to the B12.

If the SEC moves and Va Tech and NC State accept, that would be the time for the B12 to make an offer - I'm guessing we'd go after 4 - FSU, Clemson, Ga Tech and Miami - with Ga Tech and Miami a bit of a package deal.

I'm guessing the ACC would swallow some of the Big East remnants and allow 4 other non-football participants (to go with ND) and UConn to come in to balance the league.

Note, if UNC turns down the B10, this is when KS comes into play when the grant of rights ends.

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Kevin Crook 1 year, 2 months ago

It's time for people to stop waxing nostalgic about old rivals and face the facts that the only constant is change. The trend looks like there will be maybe three or four huge conferences. I for one would love to see some new blood. No offense, but I'm a little sick of the same teams over and over every year. In terms of dealing with the KSU fans in Kansas, I'd also love to not have to associate with them at all anymore.

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Jack Joiner 1 year, 2 months ago

Probably all kinds of converstations going on with other schools that we won't here about.

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Phoghorn 1 year, 2 months ago

Now, to get back on topic and to the present...

What if the B1G wanted to expand its network into Texas? (Don't laugh - Texas has huge TV markets and is obviously a hotbed for football recruiting). Naturally that desire would make UT a target. BUT would the B1G absolutely have to have UT? Could adding KU and OU do the trick? Both schools have a massive alumni base in DFW, and KU (and perhaps OU too), has a huge alumni base in Houston. Both KU and OU are national brands in their respective strong sports.

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bradynsdad 1 year, 2 months ago

If we added Clemson, Florida state and two other schools on the east coast(Virginia or Ga.Tech) that would give is divisions again plus help ease west Virginia's travels. Why sit and wait? I know they are waiting on the Maryland outcome but it sounds as though if on league starts it the rest will help take down the ACC. Then there is no worry about a buyout clause. We are not doing ourselves any favors sitting on our hands.

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Phoghorn 1 year, 2 months ago

Just for the purpose of crossing this bridge again and again and again...does anybody else suspect that perhaps Mizzou might have actually been in talks with the B1G under the agreement of "if you (Mizzou) leak this before the official announcement, we (the B1G) will deny this ever happened?"

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