Advertisement

Advertisement

Realignment Today: Is Florida State still in play for potential Big 12 expansion?

I’m still working on that granting of rights story to help bring a little clarity to the issue of why KU and the rest of the Big 12 schools can’t or, more likely, won’t leave for another conference any time soon.

I’ll make sure you all see that when it’s finished.

For now, though, let’s shift gears back to the concept of the Big 12 adding schools as opposed to any of the current members leaving.

If we’ve learned nothing else through this whole realignment mess it’s that things change quickly and sometimes turn 180 degrees on the same day.

That seems to be the case currently, as the hottest rumors regarding the Big 12 today center on the possible addition of Florida State and perhaps even one or more other ACC schools.

Miami, Virginia Tech, Clemson and, possibly even Georgia Tech could be included if something were to take place. But right now the whole thing seems to be stuck in a holding pattern featuring heads on swivels.

Curt Popejoy of RantSports.com released a recap late Tuesday night that said Tampa radio stations have been reporting that FSU has accepted an invitation to the Big 12 and that an announcement could come as soon as next week.

I don’t think we’re there yet. There are too many elements of this thing still up in the air, whether that’s the result of the ACC’s lawsuit against Maryland to enforce full payment of the $50 million exit fee or the fact that the Big Ten may still be looking to expand its membership, which, if it did, would have a major impact on the rest of the realignment rodeo.

Multiple sources have told me recently that very few people/schools involved in this mess actually enjoy the idea of realignment but are forced to act or at least prepare to act out of a sense of self preservation.

It’s my belief that the Big Ten, SEC, ACC and Big 12 all have been working hard behind the scenes on ways to not only strengthen their conference through proactive movement, but also to ensure that their current lineups will not be harmed by movement elsewhere.

It’s a sticky situation and could spin out of control just as quickly as it could once again calm down.

If there’s one final thing I’ll emphasize (again) it’s that the Big 12 is happy at 10 teams but is not choosing not to be foolish this time around and won’t simply sit around and wait for the rest of the world to act. That does not mean the league will add BYU or Cincinnati just to expand, but it does mean it could give a serious look at some serious candidates, with Florida State being the top priority among them all.

Here are a few links for you to look over while I wait to hear back from some more folks. I’ll try to update this later today and throughout the week.

Here’s the latest from realignment guru Chip Brown at Orangebloods.com, who offers some great insight from the Texas point of view: http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1445262

The Pac-12 continues to stand by the claim that realignment is not on the horizon, but that’s largely because the league does not have as many attractive options as the others should it choose to expand. Here’s the latest from Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott, who recently said San Diego State and Boise State would be on the league’s list of candidates if it were to expand: http://www.pacifictakes.com/2012/12/4/3721260/conference-realignment-pac-12-boise-state-san-diego-bsu-sdsu

Most of this is common knowledge, but it’s laid out very nicely here: http://www.bloguin.com/crystalballrun/2012-articles/november/the-big-picture-of-conference-realignment.html

Finally, this is a couple of weeks old now (and, in realignment that’s ancient) but here’s what a member of Florida State’s board of trustees had to say recently regarding FSU’s plans: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2012/11/19/maryland-florida-state-fsu-trustee-andy-haggard-college-conference-expansion-realignment/1715537/

;

Comments

Steve Hillyer 1 year, 10 months ago

As I read Chip Brown's story last night I came to a different conclusion than you Matt, it sounds like there are some Big 12 schools that are not happy at 10 and want to expand, this is why I think there is some legitimacy to the reports of teams leaving the Big 12, particularly KU. If Texas continues to resist expansion I can see other schools looking for alternatives as it would be an indication that it's just be the same old thing, UT running the conference. Expanding, especially into Florida and other populated states would provide a counter balance to Texas.

d_prowess 1 year, 10 months ago

I understand your logic, but I think you will see Matt's point once he finishes his story on the Granting of Rights within the Big12 and why it means our 10 schools have the highest (by far) amount of financial penalties if they would leave our conference than any other league. Many say that lawyers can fight any contract, which is true, but even cutting the penalty in half would be a huge financial hit according to the way I understand it.
Now if enough members tried to leave to disolve the conference things would be way different. But the thought that even 5 other schools would see better opportunities out there than what we have in the B12 now, seems unthinkable.

Vernon Riggs 1 year, 10 months ago

You could see Texas with good options however the question would be if the SEC, PAC or B1G would allow them to keep the LHN. OU would have options. Would the Texas and OU coat-tails be long enough for OSU and Texas Tech? They were not long enough before. And, Kansas might have a chance at the B1G. But the remaining teams (Baylor, TCU, WVU, KState & Iowa State) are not going anywhere and would still make up the Big12. The leftovers led by Ken Starr would take this to court and be looking to collect the Exit Fees at the door.

Vernon Riggs 1 year, 10 months ago

I understand your point. And, I wouldn't put the LHN into the failure bin yet. If I concede Texas and OU and even thier little sisters to the PAC, where would the rest of the conference go to get rid of the GoR? That was my point, there would be enough leftover, including maybe Kansas to fight to enforce the GoR.

Vernon Riggs 1 year, 10 months ago

They were in a bind and need inventory. Texas AM and MethZoo were out the door. TCU was the not-so-hot girl at the end of the bar at 2am.

Interesting about the 75% supermajority. I had wondered but haven't heard anyone say the exact number needed. Hopefully Matt will shed more light on the GoR.

I hear the possible spots for KState and WVU but I think the SEC or B1G could find better choices. The SEC could grab UNC, North Car St, VPI or Virginia. B1G has UNC, Virginia, GA Tech all AAU schools. Both would have new TV viewers.

DanHogan 1 year, 10 months ago

Sources aside, do you buy in to the idea of Georgia Tech going to the Big Ten?

Matt Tait 1 year, 10 months ago

Absolutely. Been hearing about it for 2-3 years now... Not saying it's a slam dunk, but I know there's mutual interest.

DanHogan 1 year, 10 months ago

Interesting.. I'm not a fan from the B1G perspective (I'm an MSU grad.) I'd much rather some magic that allows Kansas to move over to B1G instead.

ku1otaku 1 year, 10 months ago

Please be proactive and add FSU & Clemson. Or expand to 14 and pick-up Miami and V-Tech as well.

Ryan Gerstner 1 year, 10 months ago

I've seen some opinions with a Grant of Rights that if a school left, their penalty would be relative to the school they were replaced with. So let's say KU went to the Big 10 and the Big 12 replaces KU with Florida State. There would be little financial harm to the Big 12 (if any) and KU might not face much of a exit fee. I know the Grant of Rights says otherwise, but you have to look at how it's likely to be ruled upon in court.

lama 1 year, 10 months ago

That's what I hope Matt's article answers. Because if the league is in the same or a better position by replacing KU with another school, there isn't much of a case for damages. It largely depends what the contract says, however, and Matt and others familiar with the details have suggested there's little wiggle room in the GOR. I would love to see some law faculty types weigh in on that issue.

jgkojak 1 year, 10 months ago

If I need to leave my apt before my lease is up - if I find another tenant i'm off the hook - same if KU went to B10 and FSU came in -

though my thought is- if KU went to B10- if I'm the SEC I go after Oklahoma and OSU. This would leave Texas to the Pac or becoming an Indy.

ogjhawk 1 year, 10 months ago

JGKOJAK, I like your analogy. I am thinking KU should be the "good guy" and leave the conference for the BIG, not pay any penalty, while keeping the spread between the current per school distribution and the distribution with FSU:)

ltownatrain 1 year, 10 months ago

The other thing to keep in mind is that the Grant of Rights is only good if a majority of schools stay around to vote on it. However, lets say KU leaves for the Big 10 and then OU, OSU, UT and Texas Tech all leave for other conferences too then suddenly the Grant of Rights is on shaky grounds because you have to imagine the left overs starting to look at options as well that don't include clinging to the Big 12.

lama 1 year, 10 months ago

Except that it's probably in KU's interests that the Big 12 survive, because that means K-State has a spot in a good league.

ltownatrain 1 year, 10 months ago

Usually the needs of other schools take a back seat to to self interest in re-alignment. Plus you have to imagine that IF the Big 10 came calling the school and the state would have a hard time not being giddy at the thought of all the Big 10 research grants they would suddenly be eligible for not to mention the schools they would be associated with.

lama 1 year, 10 months ago

The Regents have to approve a move. It's a much easier task if the BIg 12 survives by replacing KU with another school. Big 10 benefits aside, the Regents aren't going to approve a move by KU that completely hoses K-State.

ltownatrain 1 year, 10 months ago

I don't get why everyone says the regents won't approve it. The Governor and the Regents already approved for KU to toughen their admissions standards to keep them on par with other top AAU schools and in my personal opinion I think they would let K-State get hosed because KU in the Big 10 is the one move that would generate more than just athletic revenue as it would likely bring Millions in research grants to KU and the State.

KGphoto 1 year, 10 months ago

From Curt Popejoy of RantSports:

"Once I heard this rumor, I started putting out some feelers to see if I could get any level of confirmation. At this point I am getting a lot of no comments, which to me is promising because if there was nothing to it, I’d get a flat-out no."

I bet it's on. And there has to be that second team. Clemson and Florida State, c'mon down! You're the next contestants on Realignment WTF!!

Doug Roberts 1 year, 10 months ago

Everybody wants to add all of these powerhouse football programs. How about adding a couple of rummies, huh? Because right now, KU is the only rummy on everybody's schedule.

Bringing in more successful football programs will hurt schools like Oklahoma and Texas who will invariably lose to the new schools at some point and miss out on championship games, final four, whatever you want to call it. And forget about KU ever being successful again. I actually think the Big 10 had it right when they brought in Maryland and Rutgers. Those programs aren't going to challenge any of the Big 10 schools for dominance, and they'll help pad their schedules with W's too. AND they also bring in the coveted TV markets that realignment seems to only be about anyway. Smart move by the Big 10 I say, and if the Big 12 expands I think that's the way it should go.

Wouldn't mind bringing in a UConn or Louisville (for example) that has troubles with football, but has a powerhouse basketball team because our Jayhawks need some SERIOUS competition in basketball. We're the only ones to win a basketball national championship in the Big 12.

ku1otaku 1 year, 10 months ago

Yeah, because Alabama's loss to Texas A&M this year really hurt them getting into the championship game. Of course, I am being sarcastic but the point is the more teams that are legit in your league will only strengthen your case not hurt it. Of course, KU will probably never be in that football championship discussion.

Krohnutz 1 year, 10 months ago

Oklahoma State has a couple titles, but I get your point. To say we are the only one in the Big 12 to win a title in the last five decades would be more accurate.

Tony Bandle 1 year, 10 months ago

Frankly, the true solution to all this realignment mess is unspoken but frightenly simple.

ABC, ESPN & FOX get together and come up with a list of 64 colleges that they will commit their billions to broadcast within a four, sixteen team superconference format while including a built-in eight team National Championship playoff system. [simply have the winners of the four conferences plus the next four best teams.]

Give the list to the NCAA and state simply...make it so, or else we will do it!!

It's so simple, it's ridiculous!!! It won't happen, of course, because it is so simple!! :)

Jonathan Allison 1 year, 10 months ago

I assume you mean NBC, CBS, ABC, and FOX. ESPN and ABC are the same people right? Disney?

Jeff Kilgore 1 year, 10 months ago

I agree, but only ESPN needs consulted. On WIBW radio today, the point was made that ESPN is televising 30 of the 35 or 36 bowl games this year and that the stations you cite each have one or two games.

It might very well be that ESPN is behind the scenes like parents watching their children play at the park. Is it safe to say that ESPN is actually driving academic institutions to realign? I'm also unsure about our conference, very unsure. The silence is deafening, and the work behind the scenes would seem frantic if we were flies on the wall.

Carter Patterson 1 year, 10 months ago

I have a hard time digesting this without a percentage wheel.

Matt Tait 1 year, 10 months ago

Ha!!! I'll work on one.

I guess we could go with this: What's the Big 12's next move?

  1. Stay at 10 - 61%
  2. Add 2 (FSU + one other) - 29%
  3. Add 4 (FSU + 3 others) - 9%
  4. Add 6 - 1%

DanHogan 1 year, 10 months ago

Oh, the percentage wheel.. how I have missed thee.

Jim Jackson 1 year, 10 months ago

Tait, why aren't we pursuing more AAU accredited schools? I think we should have gone after Louisville (not AAU) and Rutgers. Of course, we did not.

Would like to see us add to the academic prestige of the conference.

Instead of Clemson, how bout we go after GA Tech?!

And what's wrong with BYU? They are a reputable academic school.

DanHogan 1 year, 10 months ago

Don't forget, conferences can exist with 11 teams if they only play 8-game schedules. They'd add FSU and still avoid the conference championship.

Pbbut 1 year, 10 months ago

If Florida State is actually considering leaving, what are the influences on the "old-guard" ACC and what their viability might be? Maryland is already leaving, what else? If Florida State were to join the Big 12, why limit the vision to Clemson? I'd say we'd need to look at all ACC options, including schools like UNC, Virginia, Duke, Ga Tech...They may abhor the idea, but if you're drowning, you look for a life preserver, much like we have in the past scenarios. Can I have my old Big 8 back?

Matt Tait 1 year, 10 months ago

Nope. I only cover KU and the Big 12. I'm not pretending to try to figure out the entire realignment puzzle, only how what takes place impacts KU and the Big 12.

I do have connections/sources/contacts in the ACC, Big Ten and Pac-12, but they're obviously not at the presidential level and I don't anticipate that changing real soon...

Jeff Kilgore 1 year, 10 months ago

Then would it be out of line for a news interview with the Chancellor or a BPOC? If realignment is inevitable, and it seems to be so, then isn't this worth persuing?

milehighhawk 1 year, 10 months ago

Have you talked to Obama about it yet? The Pope? Get it together, Tait! ;-)

jgkojak 1 year, 10 months ago

They need to be aggressive.

They should make an offer (i.e.state interest) to 6 - FSU, Ga Tech, Clemson and Miami- and for sh*ts and giggles, NC State and Va Tech.

That gives a nice eastern "base" and makes travel for those main 4, once you add WVU, no different than they left in the ACC (remember they have to go to Boston Coll and Syracuse, which are just as far as Austin and Lawrence - in fact, a tad closer as the crow flies).

What would that look like? (with Sagarin football rating)

B12 EAST: FSU (17) , Ga Tech (65) , Clemson (24) , Miami (54) , WVU (28), TCU (26), Baylor (20)
B12 WEST: ISU (38), KU (85), KSU (5) OU (9) , OSU (14), Tex (15), TTU (27)

That would be an entertaining conference.

justinryman 1 year, 10 months ago

So the ACC would basically be left with UNC, NCst, Duke, Wake, Clemson and a few others,

Making it the Athletic Carolinas Conference.

Krohnutz 1 year, 10 months ago

So after reading Chip's assessment that Texas was the "anchor that saved the Big 12," it made me realize how full of $hit that school and their fanbase truly are. It reminded me of why I hate Texas. If we fail to land Florida State, KU should take any offer anywhere.

Todd Mobray 1 year, 10 months ago

I was thinking the same thing. It also bugged me when he said they were founding members of the Big 12. The Big 8 rescued the 4 Texas schools when the Southwest Conference was folding because all their schools (including Texas) could not stay off probation.

mdfraz 1 year, 10 months ago

Yeah, if you don't count 2/3 of the original membership, no ties at all.

milehighhawk 1 year, 10 months ago

Whenever I need an independent arbiter of truth, I go to Wiki (right after changing it, of course)

Krohnutz 1 year, 10 months ago

It's funny to me that a guy preaching that this is "all about academics" first cites Wikipedia and then fails to understand rhetoric nonsense when he sees it.

KGphoto 1 year, 10 months ago

That's the same as saying Colorado is a founding member of The PAC 12. Doesn't really jive.

Jeff Kilgore 1 year, 10 months ago

Don't hate the player. Hate the game. And if B1G comes calling, JUMP.

Matt Tait 1 year, 10 months ago

In response to a specific question about those two schools, however, he said he imagined they would both be on the list if the league explored expansion but he quickly added that they were not looking into that.

jgkojak 1 year, 10 months ago

Matt does a great job on this column and on some good reporting - but I too wish he had more resources behind him so the LJW could break some of this news or put some people on the spot-- and this really isn't about just sports - KU losing a major conf affiliation could impact its AAU status eventually. Its a big deal.

Matt Tait 1 year, 10 months ago

Your criticisms are welcomed and always appreciated but I think one thing you're all failing to account for is that KU has very little say in what happens here. We know KU is happy in the Big 12 and we know they have proven to be very loyal to the league.

We also know that the only way the powers that be at KU would even begin to explore some sort of change is if there were an official invitation from another conference on the table, which I can tell you there is not.

Even if there were, I also can assure you that no one at KU would be talking about it with anyone in the media. We saw that the last two rounds and we saw that during the coaching search last winter.

Could we throw a bunch of time and resources into digging into more? Sure. Would we find anything substantial? Doubtful. And, remember, this is not the Conference Realignment Times. We also have other sports and assignments to cover and a rather small staff.

Krohnutz 1 year, 10 months ago

So you chat it up with the "Real Deal" who posts some of the most insane crap (yeah, realignment is about academics Bill, it is, you're right....) yet I haven't had an answer to a direct, and legit, question in like four months? Matt, you have to stop feeding the trolls or they multiply like rabbits.

Matt Tait 1 year, 10 months ago

My sincere apologies. I'll keep an eye out. Can't get to every question, though, as hard as I try to.

Jeff Kilgore 1 year, 10 months ago

No one has a problem with you or your reporting. In fact, it's the best source, and I check for realignment news DAILY. I have absolutely no faith in UT or OU's word because of last summer. They did exactly what they thought they had to do, and we can't be sure they'll ever be satisfied in the BIG12 for many reasons, so I think we'd be right to hope for a B1G invitation. NU could certainly help us here politically.

The thing is, the B1G won't offer to a non-AAU school. That just won't happen. And the research $$$ that the B1G has puts the athletic side to rest.

These are the reasons it would be nice to see a news reporter's angle. We're all dying to know what's in store for not only KU, but for our region. This is a huge story, and it's not getting enough coverage, at least for some of us.

cajayfan 1 year, 10 months ago

Bleep the University of Texas. I wish they would secede. That orangebloods article disgusted me. Sounds like we are the third choice(how nice)for Florida State, behind the SEC and Big10. If you are a poker player, you know they are going to use the Big 12 as a card to play to bluff with the other two conferences....I wish they would see the Big 12 as a bird in the hand. I think most schools will see dealing with Texas as a negative.

ltownatrain 1 year, 10 months ago

Even if they are a third choice I highly doubt the Big 10 will take them as they do seem somewhat sincere about only admitting schools who currently have AAU Status and I highly doubt Florida and other SEC west schools (who recruit florida players) will want Florida State as they are more likely to want North Carolina or Va Tech. So in reality the Big 12 is probably Fla States legitimate option.

jgkojak 1 year, 10 months ago

We have ignored the alternate SEC scenerio -- for the SEC to get to 16 - if Va Tech and NC State balk - Va Tech especially could - they could decide to grab Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. The geography works (OSU is 2 hours from U of Arkansas).

This will happen if the ACC teams, including FSU, decide to remain content.

If that happens, I can see two possibilities:

1) The B10 grabs Kansas and Texas(!) as a package.

2) Texas goes Indy, the B10 may or may not grab KS (who is Team #16?)

3) Texas calls the Pac 12, who answers, and offers to take 1 school - they prefer KS, TTU is second choice.

4) Worst-case for KU: SEC grabs the Oklahoma schools Texas decides to be an Indy The Pac 12 make no offer to KU w/out Texas The ACC schools stick to their guns The B1G sticks at 14

even if this stalemate went on for a couple of years it would be disastrous for KU

Kyle Sybesma 1 year, 10 months ago

Wait for Tait to come out with his Grant of Rights article. For a Big 12 school to leave it would cost about $260 million. I've thought about OU and OSU going to the SEC. It makes sense but the Grand of Rights throws a huge wrench in any Big 12 school leaving.

ltownatrain 1 year, 10 months ago

What I am interested to see is if he includes how many schools have to vote to dissolve the league because that seems to be the key to avoiding Grant of Rights.

Vernon Riggs 1 year, 10 months ago

To add teams, I believe the vote has to be 3/4. It stands to reasons, the same number would be neccessary to dissolve. So that is eight teams. Baylor, KSU, TCU and Iowas State aren't going anywhere. So eight votes would appear to be HARD.

ltownatrain 1 year, 10 months ago

Well yes if that is true it would be hard. It basically means either no one is going anywhere or the teams that are leaving pull some strings to get like say K-state and I don't know Iowa State into other conferences.

Kyle Sybesma 1 year, 10 months ago

Another link about the FSU to the Big 12. It mentions Cincinnati as another school looking to go anywhere but the Big East.

http://sportige.com/florida-state-seminoles-soon-a-big-12-team-12-2012/

Ted Adams 1 year, 10 months ago

With Cincy's coach taking the CU job today, how much does "Cincy to any conference" take a big hit?

parrothead8 1 year, 10 months ago

If they are "not choosing not to be foolish," does that mean they are choosing to be foolish?

Krohnutz 1 year, 10 months ago

I wish the damn thing would just implode already. Since the Big 12 does not have the cajones to start it up, I hope the Big 10+2+2 or the SEC keep going. Somebody, somewhere, has to grow a pair. Seriously...

The ACC is on life support, they are our direct competition in the pecking order of conference power. Yet we don't step on their neck when they are down? We let an ogre like Swofford come in and pull the Notre Dame deal out from under us, we let them have Louisville, and we just "hang out."

Go after Florida State. Get your plethora of attorneys (aren't you all attorneys anyway?) involved in figuring out how to knock down that 50 million wall. Once you have the 11th then do your homework and look over the best candidates available (once FSU is gone most of the ACC will be pondering their status).

Step on Swofford before he can step on you.

Jeff Kilgore 1 year, 10 months ago

Every minute counts. Unless KU is working behind the scenes to move, this bugs me. It bugs me anyway.

tolbuck 1 year, 10 months ago

As a BigTen Alum and supporter of College Athletics, I can only WONDER What is the BigXII Leadership thinking in playing 'the waiting Game'? There will ONLY Be Four Conferences left standing with this current shakeout. The B1G ,SEC and PAC are givens.........MOVE Now Before You will not be able to. Florida State needs /wants to Get Out of the horrid ACC (they call that football?) and paid a price This Season in the Polls due to lack of respect for the ACC brand of Football. Florida State, along with Clemson,Georgia Tech and either Louisville or Pitt would make the BigXII a formidable Conference and have the REACH to compete with the Mega Stars SEC and B1G. The Day of UTexas or all the Texas schools collectively calling the shots will be the ULTIMATE Demise of the great BigXII Conference and the rest of the schools need to look at This Realignment as a "SURVIVAL of The Fittest". UT has little concerns because They KNOW they will Land on their Feet, but don't think for a minute THEY wouldn't bolt for the the PAC or B1G if they saw a doomed Conference. The BigXII is WORTH Saving and Building....good Institutions, Great Athletics and passionate, respectful Fanbases. The ACC has been so Carolina Centric that the Other Schools feel like Red Headed Step Children. The ACC has been backed against The Wall.....Members want Out and They Know it, they just do not want to Pony Up the Money to Pay Them. This FINAL Realignment will be a BATTLE To The Finish and Inaction will Cost You Dearly. The BigXII lost FOUR Credible Members in the last Four Years due to UT's Domineering Ways......Texas is The Problem. Texas and Notre Dame do NOT write The RULES in College Athletics......SAVE The BigXII and squash the ACC before they take You Out.

John Fitzgerald 1 year, 10 months ago

I say we forget this reallignment stuff and redo everything. Put all the teams in a pool and have 12 major conferences draft them. Might as well seems the craziness just keeps getting crazier and these conferences just can't be satisfied with the money their making. I feel like this crap is a waste of time and we could be focusing on how to lower tuition and finding ways to keep athletes in school as opposed to leaving early for the NFL or NBA. How about the schools reallign their attitudes and develop a structure that makes school affordable and attractive enough to keep student athletes all 4 years. That's the single most important thing in America is education. But, money has taken the place of that and it's exactly why we're witnessing all the conference mumbo jumbo.

Brandon Correll 1 year, 10 months ago

So what happens if teams start to leave and there is no more big 12 or ACC, then the exit fees wouldn't exist.

jayhawkinmullen 1 year, 10 months ago

I'm confused, who is saying they want to leave the Big 12? Why would Kansas leave this conference if nobody else wanted to? Seems really silly. The Big 12 is the best place for Kansas right now.

ltownatrain 1 year, 10 months ago

It all stems from rumors that the Big 10 is eying at adding two schools from either, UNC, Ga Tech, Virgina or KU. Which is why the discussion is happening because while the Big 12 may be the best place for KU, IF the Big 10 did come calling they would be hard pressed to not at least entertain the idea.

jayhawkinmullen 1 year, 10 months ago

They supposedly were interested the last go around. So why is it different now? What makes KU even more desirable to the Big now than before?

ltownatrain 1 year, 10 months ago

Easy the Big 10 wants AAU schools who have a national brand or a very good television market to add to the Big 10 Network. And quite frankly if you look there are not a lot of AAU schools to be had out there anymore that seem like legit targets for conference jumping hence the talk about the 3 ACC schools and KU all from conferences that people see as unstable.

gccs14r 1 year, 10 months ago

If both KU and UNC end up in the Big 10, imagine Roy Williams having to make regular trips to Allen Field House on the other side of the ball.

ltownatrain 1 year, 10 months ago

I think Roy would retire. Get that man a Jayhawk sticker...I mean he always has one on the next day after KU beats them in the Tourney

lama 1 year, 10 months ago

The pay-the-exit-fee-for-FSU scenario is interesting. Suprisingly, FSU's athletic department is not flush with cash: http://chronicle.com/blogs/players/rising-and-falling-on-football/30103

Brian Skelly 1 year, 10 months ago

The reality is, of the "Big 4" conferences the Big 12 is 4th. The ACC in theory has more prestige as 5 (and TV sets by the way). So predicting doom for the ACC is a little silly. At this point with all thats going on it IS the most likely to get picked at though. Geography and TV sets. And more than that, interested parties.

There are dozens of not unrealistic scenarios of multiple ACC teams going multiple places. I dont think thats the case in the Big 12 with the GOR. Could UT and OU bolt to the Pac -12 ? Yea. Sure. But not without giving up their 3rd tier rights -- which likely outweighs what they'd make in a shared network situation. That said, those two are probably the only ones that would apply to. KU does well with its T3 stuff... but my guess is in the Big 10 or Pac-12 that would be comparable.

UT sucks, but its their party and we're simply invited. Resistance is futile. And personally, if I felt like we could actually trust them (and no, I dont), I'd be fine with it. As brutal as we are at football, if we go to the Big 10 we'll be even worse. Likely comparable if we go west to the Pac-12.

I think this TV sets issue is real though. It's why logically speaking, the conference that would implode would be the Big 12. Kansas, Iowa, Oklahoma, West Virginia have small populations. Thats not changing in our lifetimes. Texas is huge, and it shouldnt REALLY surprise folks that UT is so big. The 3 ahead of us (Big10,Pac12,SEC) AND the one with us (ACC) ALL have larger population bases. Lets not pretend this isnt going to be an issue. It is. And all the politicking in the world isnt going to change it.

Vernon Riggs 1 year, 10 months ago

You are a little too tough on the Big12. We are ahead of the ACC by miles and ahead of the PAC12. The B1G is within striking distance as well. If we pull FSU, Clemson and two others in this round of Realignment, we will be in second only behind SEC.

milehighhawk 1 year, 10 months ago

Rutgers is now suing the Big East over exit fees.

Krohnutz 1 year, 10 months ago

Posted that the Big 10+2+2 should be considering FSU regardless over GTech. You were the solo reply with the AAU status thing. What changed your mind? 19 million reasons to move into the Florida market? The Big 12 needs to get off their ass.

Eric TheCapn 1 year, 10 months ago

I hope they aren't. I don't want to make our student-athletes travel so far more that they already have to. Education!

MoralVictory 1 year, 10 months ago

Interesting to read the Longhorns link...basically explains that Texas still thinks that they run the league and, apparently, still do.

tolbuck 1 year, 10 months ago

It is because of THIS that I will never support ANY Longhorn Team. For some CRAZY Reason, Texas and Notre Dame feel THEY are Supreme and 'Call the Shots'. As much as I Hate the SEC, I despise Notre Dame with a PASSION and I am Catholic. Due to ND and it's arrogance I am HOPING (should say Praying) that Alabama puts a Beatdown on The Irish to the extreme that the Infamous Touchdown Jesus Building has TEARS running down the building after The NCG. Both UT and ND are Bad for Competitive Athletics.

oldalum 1 year, 10 months ago

Agreed, although I don't know why that surprises you. They always have and always will think they are the only school that matters.

cragarhawk 1 year, 10 months ago

When I really stop and think about this whole realignment mess, the entire thing has that BASEKETBALL feel to it. Is the whole thing the beginning of something terrible for college athletics?? All on account of the dollars....

amatxjayhawk 1 year, 10 months ago

Wake me when it's over and I'll decide if I'm ever going to give a big damn about what used to be college sports. The fun is really going the way of professional sports, ruined by big bucks and bigger egos. The old college try and win one for the alma mater are gone and my interest is going, going, almost gone.

Now if there are enough others like me (probably not, but I can hope) maybe the big business that is college sports today goes away and sports return to actually being extracurricular activities of the schools. I hope so. Since the bridges are all burned between KU and most of our geographic rivals maybe we could just join the Ivy League and be done with all of this.

wtfusa 1 year, 10 months ago

Gotta say Matt you seem to be really invested on this Grant of Rights circlejerk going on. I for one do not believe that it will stand up better than any other conference exit penalty in the courts. I think the major shot across the bow happened when the B1G took Maryland even with the ironclad $50m exit fee. It really showed that if one of the major conferences wants a school, there is nothing stopping them.

The Big Ten is just a flat out better conference overall, and Grey-Little has to be out of her mind not to want to be in on the CIC. Unlike Nebraska I do not see us losing the AAU status, and the B1G really covets that distinction. We share a better geography and culture with the B1G than we do with Big Texas.

Matt, do you want us to be in a conference with the likes of Waco, Lubbock, and Ames; or Indianapolis, Detroit, Chicago, Minneapolis, and now DC and NYC.

also, if I'm the mayor of KCMO and KCK I would be calling and pleading with the Big Ten front offices. This is something that can really help the KC image. KC needs to attach itself to the same success that Indianapolis has done.

mahkmood 1 year, 10 months ago

The B1G has never accepted a school from a confederate state. I believe this is one of the reasons why MU was never asked to join, and went to the SEC. Maybe there is nothing to this "Confederate vs. Union" idea, but it is clear that the B1G has 0 schools from confederate states, and the SEC has 0 schools from union states.

My opinion is that most of the powers-that-be in the B1G want to add ND and KU - not UVA, UNC, GT, or UT. However, money from TV sets may drive the B1G to finally add schools from "Southern" states?

The Border War has always been a point of pride that Kansas didn't let the Confederate influence from Missouri overtake it. KU's history and aau status makes the B1G - not the B12 - its proper home.

The remaining "North" aau schools (less the Ivy League) are: KU, Pitt, and ISU. Pitt and ISU would be same-state competition and tv market overlap for Penn State and Iowa respectively. ND would be taken as exception to aau and same-state market concerns. I really think the B1G #15 and #16 will be two of KU, ND, and Pitt because of this somewhat odd, long-standing, unwritten B1G policy "No Confederate State Universities Welcome".

Matt, what's your opinion on this "B1G = Union vs. SEC = Confederate" theory? Coincidence or Unwritten Policy? Does the big TV money finally end this "pattern"?

mahkmood 1 year, 10 months ago

Thank you Mr. McNeil for pointing out my incorrect statement. I should have said, "The B1G has never accepted a university from a state that is represented on the Confederate Flag (Navy Jack)". Missouri would not be represented on the flag for no good reason... and Maryland is not represented on the flag for very good reason.

"During the Civil War, the states of Missouri and Kentucky had competing confederate and unionist governments claiming authority over their states. Missouri's ordinance [of secession] was approved by a legislative session called by Claiborne Fox Jackson, the pro-confederate governor (see Missouri secession). Kentucky's [ordinance of secession] was approved by a convention of 200 people representing 65 counties of the state, but without support from the unionist state government. The Confederacy officially seated both of these states in 1862, though they were contested throughout the war." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinanc...

Kevin Randell 1 year, 10 months ago

I just see it going several ways:

All in all, ND is the prize for any conference. Especially now since they are in the National Championship. I see this whole thing going to a four 16 team mega conference. At that point you will see the commissioners basically throwing in some clause that you have to be a conference champion in order to play for the National Championship....and forcing ND to pick a conference.

KU to the B1G? Ya, my ear perk up at the sound of a conference wanting us and taking us away from this drama, but I just can't help to think. If the B1G really wanted us why didn't they go after us this time? I just would like some solid proof that we were on their radar.

Big XII needs to either do one of three things. 1. Get on the ball and at least get back to 12 or go to 14 team or we are going to end up left picking the band kids to play dodge ball. 2. Allow the other mega building conference purge us and the scraps head to the Big East...just kidding!...lol. CUSA and MAC seem to be the right fit for the lower tiered teams. OR 3. Change our dang name if we are going to stay at 10!

As for the SEC, I will not lie, I would love to get into this conference. Partly because they are still pretty much regional. I think our Basketball card would give us some credit plus we would have better recruiting opportunities in Florida. Also, on the outside chance I think the conference would like the Boarder War (yes I said war because I am not PC) back with us and Mizzou. But most likely I see them going after OU and OSU/Texas if that happens.

All in all....I just hope this finally comes to an end.

jhawkrulz 1 year, 10 months ago

I'm torn...I love the Big XII rivalries, but they have fallen down the wayside.

What makes the Big XII weak, is some of the small schools: TCU and Baylor being the top of that list. KSU, TTU, ISU, and OSU also leave a lot to be desired (some in academics).

If you look at the ACC, they don't have as much of an issue with that. It seems like all the ACC schools are desirable.

I see two scenarios, the ACC dissolves or the Big XII dissolves. If the Big XII dissolves it gives a lot more availability to the PAC 12 for expansion. If the ACC dissolves, the Ten, XII, and SEC will just pick and choose to get to 16. I would say that the Ten gets first pick and SEC gets second. The Big XII gets the leftovers with options for Cincy, BYU.

If the ACC dissolves, I still would say that KU might be option to go to the TEN and the Big XII gets a team from the ACC to replace, this let's KU out of the GOR, plus if that is what it takes to get the ACC to dissolve the XII and TEN would be estastic to get rid of all of those $50mm exit fee lawsuits.

With the ACC just signing that deal that was very favorable to Basketball it really gets people talking, but don't lose sight of the power of academics.

When you really look at the teams that have moved in the major conferences, it has been education and tv markets that have made the decision. This is why KSU, ISU, BU, TCU should be scared.

I guess in a nutshell, if the Big XII expands they have a lot of the undesired teams already on their books. If they dissolve and join other conferences, those undesired teams are in trouble.

KGphoto 1 year, 10 months ago

So, are you saying they will never join ANY conference? Because when we get to 4 super-conferences and those 4 conference winners are the only ones invited to play in the 4 team playoff, they would have no choice. Granted that's a ways off, and it may quite possibly never happen, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Newsflash: Never say never. Surprised you didn't know that.

blindrabbit 1 year, 10 months ago

Oklahoma Jayhawk: I'd give up on Kansas in the SEC, one Yankee School in with 14 Olde Dixie's; away games would not be pretty! Home games, would be inviting a bunch of Southern's back for the next trashing of Lawrence. The SEC had a hard time taking even Border State Missouri; the SEC does not want us and I suggest, we don't want them. The B1G or PAC-12 would be much better options for KU, be they based on histories, academics or cultures. We ought to jump to either one if offered; would be better than staying in the Texas dominated Big-12.

lv_jhwk 1 year, 10 months ago

When will people understand that realignment is ALL ABOUT GEOPGRAPHY. It has very little to do with the reputation of a school. Sure, Rutgers and Maryland likely wouldn't have been accepted into the B1G if they weren't AAU members, but the major reason was where they were located and the number of tv sets they could add.

Take Louisville for instance: strong basketball program (not that it matters), decent football, middling academics. Despite what JHWKDW says, the Cards did not turn down the Big 12, they were never invited. Studies from outside analysts showed that the inclusion of Louisville, Cincinnatti, and other similar schools would be a net loss for the conference institutions. Why? Because any possible increase in overall revenue would not come close to covering the decreased payout each member would receive due to the extra mouth to feed.

Hence, FSU. The Seminoles have the state of Florida as their ticket in, since that would significantly increase the tv market for the conference. Now the networks that have ties to the Big 12 have incentive to pay out a bit more, thus maintaining if not increasing the current income stream.

See, this game really isn't hard to understand.

Brian Skelly 1 year, 10 months ago

I dont buy the "Texas would never want FSU encroaching on their turf" argument. Sorry, I dont. At least not to the level that some want to make it sound. Id say that idea is the exact reason FSU wouldnt want to join if that were the case.

FSU wouldnt be a total counterweight to UT either. To some degree sure. In the sense that 'some degree' at one point was Nebraska too.

The reality is, if we dont expand 'well' -- with strong football programs / footprint expansion -- it wouldnt be shocking if we were the conference that starts to get picked at. The ACCs problem quite simply is its dollars are lower than the conferences that would be doing the picking... Big 10, SEC, Big 12. Geographically it realistically has to 'defend' on more fronts as well. Part of that is also the fact that the ACC has more attractive options than the Big 12 does at this point as well.

Seriously... beyond UT and OU who's really 'attractive' to other conferences? We're likely next in line there, but to what level does that mean? UT has the $$$ that if they wanted to go independent they could. Im comfortable thats not what they want though. They want exactly what they have... being the lone alpha-male in the room with a group of schools that has little or no choice -- at least currently.

As ive said before, if I felt I could trust UT, I'd be totally fine with the situation we're in. Problem is, what have they done to make us trust them?

blindrabbit 1 year, 10 months ago

Final result will be 4 major conferences of 16 teams each. Three of the four conferences are already determined: the PAC-12 (or whatever), the B1G and the SEC. PAC-12 needs to add 4 teams to reach 16, B1G needs 2 additional, and SEC also needs 2. The fourth major conference will be made- up of a conglomeration of what remains of the other majors, a combination of Big-12, ACC, BigEast and a few other major programs scattered aroung the country. Can speculate all day long as to the additions to the PAC, B1G and SEC and what will make up the fourth and what it will it be named.

Michael Luby 1 year, 10 months ago

This is Waaaay off topic but everytime I see Georgia Tech's name, I think about that sick @$$ put back dunk that Mario Chalmers had against them. That was the 07-08 season, Dec 18th.

Terry N Tom Denner 1 year, 10 months ago

Matt Tait, why don't you along with what the Big12 Commish has done and sow your lips to the Texas AD Dobbs foreskin. The 3 of you Stooges will ruin the Big 12 if the Conference stays a 10 teams. There will be NO SEC games played nor will the Big 12 get any respect from the BCS goonies to make it to any BCS bowls even if one should go undefeated. The Big 12 will be the Bosie State kid on the block that no one wants to have in their circle!!

Commenting has been disabled for this item.