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Wild Wednesday: KU not planning to sue, but hasn't waived legal rights with regards to A&M

7:17 p.m. Update:

The official word from chancellor Bernadette Gray-Little's office came out while I was talking with coach Gill (of course) and it went as follows:

"We are not planning litigation, but we have not waived our legal rights in this matter."

The interpretation of that statement is up in the air, however, it tends to suggest that KU wants to remain a loyal member of the Big 12 and that a strong Big 12 is the best outcome for KU.

One wrinkle that makes me think we're closer to that happening came when sources told me this evening that during this afternoon's Big 12 conference call, Baylor, Iowa State, KU and K-State all said they would not waive their right to sue but were not planning legal action.

After a long pause, Oklahoma's representatives said they would waive their right to sue.

That opens up further interpretation, though, again, seems to suggest that the Sooners may be leaning more toward sticking with the Big 12 and were, in fact, trying to "let A&M go" so the rest of the conference could move on.

ESPN's Andy Katz is reporting that sources told him that everyone on the conference call except OU announced that it would not waive its right to sue the SEC.

Talk about a show of solidarity.

Again, these are just reads on my part based on people I've talked to and information I've gathered. I'm not claiming that any of this is the way it's going to shake out.

As we head into the night and wait for more to come out, I'll leave you with an updated version of my most likely scenarios for Kansas at this point.

  1. Big East 40%
  2. Big 12 40%
  3. Pac-12 15%
  4. Other 5%

Texas wants the Big 12. Oklahoma needs the Big 12. And the rest of the schools would prefer it over scrambling to find an alternative.

One quick guess: If the conference does survive again, they'll quickly add teams in an attempt to get back to 12. More teams, especially teams that want to be there, means greater stability.

Stay tuned...

6:15 p.m. Update

Dan Beebe and the Big 12 Conference have issued a statement presenting their version of events regarding the waiver that wasn't.

According to Beebe, the waiver was only meant to apply to the Big 12 Conference, Inc., and did not, and could not, cover the individual member institutions.

Here's the whole statement:

"This is the first time to my knowledge that a conference has been requested to waive any legal claims toward another conference for any damages suffered with a membership change. The Big 12 Conference was asked by Texas A&M University and the Southeastern Conference to waive any such claim to help facilitate Texas A&M's departure from the Conference without any consideration to the Big 12. Although they were not obligated to do so, the Big 12 Board of Directors decided to accommodate that request as it relates to The Big 12 Conference, Inc., which is reflected in the September 2 letter sent to SEC commissioner Mike Slive.

However, the waiver did not and could not bind the individual member institutions' governing boards to waive institutional rights. If the departure of Texas A&M results in significant changes in the Big 12 membership, several institutions may be severely affected after counting on revenue streams from contracts that were approved unanimously by our members, including Texas A&M. In some cases, members reasonably relied on such approval to embark on obligations that will cost millions of dollars."

Will the schools stay together? Check back later for more updates.

5:48 p.m. Update:

Heading to KU football practice for a quick chat with coach Gill and a few players. Don't forget KU has a GAME this weekend, 6 p.m. vs. Northern Illinois at home.

Hold tight. Be back as soon as possible to jump back in.

5:33 p.m. Update:

The Texas site for 24/7 sports.com is reporting that a source close to Baylor has said a deal is done, the Big 12 will not sue the SEC and A&M is free to leave.

Not much more than that to the report, which hasn't picked up steam anywhere else.

But here it is for those who want to peruse... http://texas.247sports.com/Board/21/Report-Deal-reached-AM-to-SEC-4118128/1

Similar stuff surfacing on an LSU message board known as TigerDroppings... That site says gentleman's agreement has been reached between Big 12 and SEC that includes a stipulation that SEC will not poach any more Big 12 schools. Sorry Mizzou.

If true, this could go a long way toward ending the crazy part of this mess. The big question then becomes was a deal reached because OU is committed to the Big 12 or is the dream over and will the rest of the league have to start searching for new homes?

Hard to read right now...

Stay tuned...

4:46 p.m. Update:

Here's this from the AP... Helps clear a few things up...

COLLEGE STATION, Texas (AP) — The Associated Press has obtained an email indicating that it was Baylorthat raised the specter of legal action to stop Texas A&M from leaving the Big 12.

The email was sent late Tuesday by Big 12 Commissioner Dan Beebe to Mike Slive, his counterpart at the SEC.

It says the Southeastern Conference will need to ask each Big 12 school to waive their legal rights to clear the way for Texas A&M to join the SEC. Beebe says: "I recognize that this issue has been raised due to BaylorUniversity's indication that its governing board has not waived the university's rights" to take legal action.

Beebe had sent a letter to Slive on Sept. 2 saying that the Big 12 "and its members" would not go to court to sue the SEC or its 12 member schools over Texas A&M as long as the deal was secured by Thursday afternoon.

Beebe then sent Tuesday night's email around the time that SEC presidents and chancellors were voting on an application from Texas A&M to join by next summer. Beebe told Slive, "I regret any confusion on this issue."

Texas A&M President R. Bowen Loftin told the AP in an interview that Tuesday's email was "really a violation of trust" on the part of Beebe. The Big 12 did not immediately return a message left seeking comment Wednesday afternoon.

Sept. 6 email letter sent by Beebe to Slive at 10:39 p.m. (provided to The Associated Press by Loftin):

*'Dear Mike:

You have notified me that the SEC is willing to accept the application of Texas A&M to become a member of the SEC, provided that the Big 12 member institutions individually waive any legal actions against the SEC for its decision. I recognize that this issue has been raised due to Baylor University's indication that its governing board has not waived the university's rights. As you know, the attached letter waived the right of the Big 12 Conference Inc. to take legal action against the SEC. Missouri Chancellor Brady Deaton, chair of the Big 12 Board of Directors, has told me that he informed Texas A&M President Bowen Loftin that such action by the Big 12 Conference Board of Directors was not binding on the individual institutions' governing boards. If you seek waivers by the individual institutions, you must receive them from those institutions directly. I regret any confusion on this issue.

Best regards, Dan'*

Stay tuned...

4:31 p.m. Update:

Waco Tribune officially reporting that a source close to Baylor said six Big 12 schools have agreed to sign waiver freeing Texas A&M if Oklahoma commits to the conference.

That sounds about as dysfunctional as it can get. If teams don't want to be in this conference, how is that a good thing for the conference's future?

Here's the brief Waco Trib report: http://www.wacotrib.com/news/breakingnews/Big-12-school-threatens-legal-action-as-SEC-invites-Texas-AM-to-join-league.html

3:46 p.m. Update:

KU associate athletic director for media relations, Jim Marchiony, said Wednesday afternoon that KU chancellor Bernadette Gray-Little was engaged in discussions with her staff about whether KU should waive its legal rights regarding Texas A&M's move to the SEC.

According to a letter from Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe, dated Sept. 2, the Big 12 had universally agreed to waive all legal rights that could prevent A&M from joining the SEC. While that letter covered the Big 12 as a whole, the individual Big 12 schools retained their own rights and, now that A&M has officially been accepted into the SEC, the question becomes whether each Big 12 school will allow it to happen.

The letter was posted here earlier today, but one line that needs to be revisited is the following: Beebe: ...the Big 12 Conference Board of Directors unanimously authorized me to convey to you and their colleagues in the Southeastern Conference that the Big 12 and its members will not take any legal action for any possible claims against the SEC or its members relating to the departure of Texas A&M...

We have not been able to confirm whether that statement and its reference to "the Big 12 and its members" was enough to waive the rights of the individual schools or just the conference as a whole, but, clearly, the letter did not speak for everyone.

So far, Baylor and Iowa State have gone on record saying they would not waive their rights.

A radio report out of Dallas said that KU and K-State had joined them but Marchiony said he was in the process of finding out if a decision had been made on Kansas' end.

As of 4:20, Gray-Little remained on the phone and Marchiony said he did not know when Gray-Little and the university would make a decision.

3:31 p.m. Update:

Iowa State is officially announcing its intentions...

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/09/iowa-state-legal-rights-texas-a38m-move-sec/1

3:27 p.m. Update:

A Dallas radio station is reporting that KU and K-State have joined the legal fight against the SEC. No links or concrete information. May be true. May not.

Working several angles to confirm.

Stay tuned...

2:43 p.m. Update:

610 Sports radio personality Bob Fescoe filling Twitter with some good stuff from KU men's basketball coach Bill Self.

Self was at a luncheon earlier today and he spoke with Fescoe, among others, shortly after.

Here's a link to Fescoe's Twitter feed: http://twitter.com/#!/bobfescoe

Here are some of his highlight Tweets:

• Self: Its nervous times. The way we know college athletics could change in a short time.

• Self: I don't see it being all good and I don't see it being all negative.

• Self: This year I am not pushing the panic button.

• Self: This could lead to a break up of not just the big 12 but other leagues too.

• Self: I can't see student athletes benefiting from this.

There ya have it. The man himself has spoken. I'm sure our own KU hoops reporter, Gary Bedore, will have more on this later.

Stay tuned...

1:33 p.m. Update:

OK... So let's cut to the chase. Let's talk KU vs. MU. It's a favorite topic of everyone's around here, anyway, so why not examine it with regard to conference realignment, too.

On Tuesday, I spoke with a handful of college men's basketball and football coaches from so-called mid-major conferences not near Kansas. The main question I asked each was simple: Which school, Kansas or Missouri, is more attractive on the national landscape in your eyes?

All but one of them answered Missouri. The one who didn't, a college basketball coach, said it was equal and it was only because of Kansas basketball.

While there's a fair chance that KU and Mizzou could wind up together when all of this is over, there's an equally fair chance that the two schools could become competitors for spots, especially in the Big Ten and Pac-12. If that's the case, it could be time for KU to call in some heavy hitters to lobby for the Jayhawks. And I'm not talking Tom Osborne because he's friends with Turner Gill here. Although support from the Big Red would help.

Here's one columnist, Omaha's Tom Shatel, who says KU is a more attractive option for the Big Ten than the Tigers.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110905/SPORTS/709059854/1140#shatel-ku-better-fit-than-mizzou-for-big-ten

I'm on the lookout for more and I'm sure they're out there... both ways.

Stay tuned...

1:10 p.m. Update:

With the news out of Baylor looking legit, it seems that A&M will get its wish and head to the SEC at some point soon.

With that in mind we can get back on track in terms of the question: What comes next.

Here's an interesting page that a group of Mizzou fans have set up, which expresses their clear interest in joining the SEC.

http://mizzou2sec.com/

Reports from SEC country have indicated that the mystery 14th team for the SEC has come down to West Virginia and Missouri. That could be the next domino to fall.

Just for giggles, here's some more from the West Virginia side of things, too, from WVU's Oliver Luck.

http://blustreaks.com/2011/09/05/oliver-luck-doesnt-take-a-raincheck/

Stay tuned...

11:41 a.m. Update:

Various Twitter reports from Texas A&M sources are saying that Baylor has backed down on its stance to sue the SEC, which gives A&M the green light to make the move.

It also gives the rest of the nation the green light to buckle up and prepare for a wild couple of days. It looks as if the big one is here...

No word on whether this came as a result of the Big 12 conference call, which was scheduled for noon, or if that call was moved up or cancelled.

One source says an announcement from Baylor is expected soon.

Stay tuned.

11:14 a.m. Update:

Great perspective here from our old friends in Colorado. The Denver Post's John Henderson reports that CU is not in any hurry to rejoin forces with its old Big 12 mates.

Can you blame 'em?

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_18834617

10:53 a.m. Update:

Here's the full statement from Texas A&M president R. Bowen Loftin:

"We are certainly pleased with the action taken last night by the presidents and chancellors of the Southeastern Conference to unanimously accept Texas A&M as the league's 13th member. However, this acceptance is conditional, and we are disappointed in the threats made by one of the Big 12 member institutions to coerce Texas A&M into staying in Big 12 Conference. These actions go against the commitment that was made by this university and the Big 12 on Sept. 2. We are working diligently to resolve any and all issues as outlined by the SEC."

10:25 a.m. Update:

The latest from Chip Brown of Orangebloods.com says the SEC wants all nine schools in the Big 12 to sign a waiver saying they will not sue the SEC over the depature of Texas A&M to the SEC and the Big 12 schools will not sign those waivers.

Working on confirming this, at least from people at the three local schools, KU, KSU and MU.

Brown also said that a A&M officials have told Orangebloods that a planned celebration in College Station has been put on hold for now.

10:03 a.m. Update:

-- LATEST UPDATE -- Matt Mosley, co-host of ESPN 103.3 radio show, columnist and TV analyst for Fox Sports Southwest, is reporting via Twitter that Baylor is not going to sue the SEC and that the whole thing was a bit of a misunderstanding because of a small delay in BU officials sending the letter of agreement in.

This doesn't surprise me at all. Things are so tense and volatile right now. Even a three-minute delay can create chaos and feeling of Doomsday coming.

We'll see if this holds.

Mosley's Twitter page: http://twitter.com/#!/mattmosley

9:52 a.m Update:

I know we're all aware how fragile this whole situation is... but it's amazing how much posturing is going on out there. All in the name of protecting yourself legally.

While everybody in all of the major conferences is talking and planning and preparing for an absolution, the conference leaders (save for Beebe) are almost all saying that they don't want to expand and they're happy, for now, with the situation they're in.

Here's a great recap from Jon Wilner in the bay area, who reports that the Pac-12 does not want to expand but will be forced to if the A&M to SEC move goes down.

Although we've hit a snag, I can't see any way that A&M is kept out of the SEC. They want to go. The SEC wants them. Lawsuit, Schmawsuit. These things can go away as quickly as they pop up. Ever heard of a little something called a counter-lawsuit? This could get ugly before it goes away, but it will go away.

Hearing from a couple of different sources that the Big 12 is preparing for a conference call today, not that that should surprise anyone. No clue what the exact topic will be today but I have to think that with all of these schools having so many irons in the fire, it's going to be more about talking Baylor off the ledge than trying to keep the Big 12 together.

Stay tuned...

8:43 a.m. Update:

Good morning. Let's jump right in, shall we?

We begin today with threats of news of a good old-fashioned law suit from "at least one school in the Big 12."

All reports seem to indicate that that school is Baylor and, the Bears' unhappiness here could put a major snag A&M's ability to move to the SEC any time soon.

Here's the statement from the SEC regarding accepting A&M and their concern about a lawsuit.

Beyond that, there's now a letter circulating that allegedly was written by Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe to SEC commissioner Mike Slive. No word on if the letter is official or not, but here's a look at what the letter says.

I've highlighted the best parts...

September 2, 2011

Mike Slive
Commissioner Southeastern Conference
2201 Richard Arrington Boulevard
North Birmingham, AL 35203

Dear Mike:
This is to confirm our discussion yesterday during which I informed you that the Big 12 Conference Board of Directors unanimously authorized me to convey to you and their colleagues in the Southeastern Conference that the Big 12 and its members will not take any legal action for any possible claims against the SEC or its members relating to the departure of Texas A&M University from the Big 12 and the admission of Texas A&M into the SEC; provided, however, that such act by the SEC to admit Texas A&M is publicly confirmed by 5:00 p.m. (CDT) on September 8, 2011.

Such admission of Texas A&M will result in the withdrawal of Texas A&M from the Big 12 Conference effective June 30, 2012. We both agreed it is in the best interests of each of our conferences and our member institutions of higher education to waive any and all legal actions by either conference and its members resulting from admission of Texas A&M into the SEC, as long as such admission is confirmed publicly by September 8, 2011.

If any of your presidents and chancellors have concerns about this commitment of the Big 12 Conference, they may contact me or Brady Deaton, Big 12 Board of Director chairman and chancellor of the University of Missouri, Columbia.

Sincerely, Dan Beebe Commissioner DB:me cc: Kevin Sweeney, Polsinelli Shughart PC

Looks like today could get crazy.

Stay tuned...

Comments

justinryman 3 years, 8 months ago

The Big 12 did nothing to stand in the way of Nebraska or colorado, so why do it to Texas A&M? The only thing standing in their way is Texas and Baylor. I can't see either Oklahoma school doing so, as they are both looking westward at this time. Texas Tech and Iowa St. don't seem to have any pull, and Kansas and Kansas St. are in tough position here.

If they vote to chose legal action to keep A&M then what happens in a few years when other teams want to leave? Who will take a school that tried to sue to keep their conference alive? Not many.

Let them go, let the Big12 go along the wayside. It is too late to look back and is becoming very close to, to late to look forward.

Kansas needs to be aggressive from this point forward, be it PAC## or B1G, they need to be working the phones and all avenues to get an invite as soon as possible before they are just a footnote of the Big12 leftovers.

The administration and coaches at KU can no longer take anything that another school in the Big12 tells them with a grain of salt. Hey good guys finish last and it's time to shake that moniker. Everybody hated nebraska for leaving last year, but it's time to look at why and do the same thing. It's time to cut ties to traditions and "the good ole days" and look forward to new and exciting adventures.

The Big12 is done, stick a fork in it. Get up from the table and find another place to eat.

God Speed KU

selfishhawk 3 years, 8 months ago

Unfortunately, it appears the leaders of our state institutions are still woefully unprepared for the gravity of this situation and believe KU and K-State should stick together: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/09/06/kansas.regents.ap/index.html?sct=cf_t2_a10

If I were this board of regent, I would keep my mouth shut! At this point it is every school for themself, unless a mutually beneficial alliance can be formed. KU-K-State is not such an alliance.

Hank Cross 3 years, 8 months ago

Why would Baylor and ISU agree not to sue? They've got nothing to lose. UT would look favorably on the suit because then it could continue it texploitation of the the rest of the B12,

Hank Cross 3 years, 8 months ago

This has got Bevo's hoofprints all over it. If the B12 were to break up, and OU were to leave UT had basically two realistic options:

  1. Give up the LHN and go be one of equals with Washington State and Utah; or
  2. Independence, with no clear place to park its non-FB teams and a more difficult path to the BCS championship.

Solution: Whisper in Baylor's ear: "Are you going the let the SEC Mess with Texas Football?"

OU/OSU aren't going to leave w/o A&M leaving first, especially since the P12 signaled hesitancy about expansion,

LogicMan 3 years, 8 months ago

Did the schools sign a waiver of their individual rights as part of the Big XII agreement? If so, Baylor is out of line, if not, or deemed unenforceable, then TAMU and the SEC should be ready to dig really deep.

JayDocMD 3 years, 8 months ago

Despite how improbable it now seems, I'm becoming increasingly convinced our best option is an intact Big12.

My first choice post-Big12 would be Big 10, but they won't add anyone this side of Notre Dame until their TV contract is coming up for renewal (2016?) Even then I don't think we get an invite - we just don't bring enough $ to the table.

Second choice is PAC-12. I don't think we get an invite there unless Texas says no. Even then, PAC-12 may view KU/MU as a package deal and MU looks to be solidly on SEC radar if the A&M acquisition goes through. I'm certainly no Mizzou apologist, but who could blame them for jumping at that chance. I'm seeing the PAC 12 invite as anything but a sure thing.

No indication that ACC or SEC has any interest, although either one would be my next choice.

Big East. No thanks. Its been mentioned and I agree that this is the next league to get stripped down. It's trading one unstable conference for another. West Virginia, Syracuse, Rutgers and Pitt will all be in demand for Big 10/ACC/SEC expansion. Then we are part of a basketball conference with 2nd tier football schools - or Conference USA II.

Back to my original point. An intact Big 12 +/- A&M (with an appeased Oklahoma) is KU's best option. Who knows, if ESPN wants the Big 12 and its Longwhorn Network to survive, maybe they pony up for an OU/OSU Sooner/Cowboy Regional Network? I don't think its likely - and it looks like its become too much of a free-for-all, but perhaps the threat of a Baylor lawsuit will be the speed-bump that this conference needs to regroup.

JayDocMD 3 years, 8 months ago

Clarification: An intact Big12 with a new commissioner. Beebe is toast.

Bville Hawk 3 years, 8 months ago

Unless UT is willing to change (and nothing indicates they are) and share revenue equally with all conference members I think KU should leave if either the PAC 12 or Big 10 make an offer. Dealing with UT is making my rump sore...

JayDocMD 3 years, 8 months ago

I agree with that. I'm just doubtful that those offers will ever come.

ku_foaf 3 years, 8 months ago

Agreed. In the long term, having one institution believing they are not equals (ie superior) with the others will just not work. It would only postpone the breakup, IMHO, as it did for one year before A&M had enough of the situation.

ahpersecoachingexperience 3 years, 8 months ago

Wats the world record for most times a person has checked a website in a day?

ahpersecoachingexperience 3 years, 8 months ago

"what's" I'm getting woozey from all the wifi signals surrounding me!

colreader 3 years, 8 months ago

You've been watching "Alphas" on the SyFy Channel

Daniel Kennamore 3 years, 8 months ago

Jesus could Beebe be more inept. That letter is basically 'thank you, sir...may I have another?"

"If any of your presidents and chancellors have concerns about this commitment of the Big 12 Conference, they may contact me"

No wonder the league is collapsing.

Bob Schutz 3 years, 8 months ago

If all this is true, I sort of like the Baylor move. Why roll over and let TA&M do what ever they want? Let TA&M twist in the wind for awhile.

Mike Nicco 3 years, 8 months ago

San Jose Mercury News: Politics could keep Texas out of Pac-12 http://bit.ly/psW6cS

Jock Navels 3 years, 8 months ago

66 schools in 6 AQ conferences are going to be 64 schools in 4 AQ conferences. Two schools are going to lose seats at the table. They won't be KU.

rob4lb 3 years, 8 months ago

ACC, Pac 12, Big 10 and SEC have 12; Big East has 9 and Big 12 has 10 (for now). Add Notre Dame and you have 68 schools. I hear your argument. If four of the schools end up not having homes, it's unlikely KU will be one of them. The four schools most likely would come from the Big East and Big 12. Baylor, Iowa State and K-State are clearly below KU. Who else? South Florida, UCONN, Cincinnati?

rob4lb 3 years, 8 months ago

It's avctually about who is more attractive and KU is more attractive than Bayor, KSU and ISU. What BCS confernces are rumored to be eyeing any of these schools

tychi_jayhawk 3 years, 8 months ago

Babboy, you are not understanding it. It's about money and TV markets. In that regard, KU is better than many at risk teams. We're also AAU which gives us even more on an edge.

And rob4lb didn't mention anything about basketball.

texashawk10 3 years, 8 months ago

67 AQ teams because Notre Dame will end up in one of those 16 team conferences.

David Atchley 3 years, 8 months ago

Baylor is simply being pro-active, they have a history of it with Baylor alum back during the merger of the SWC/Big 8. They were the mouse that roared that allowed Baylor to be included and unlike the other "orphan" schools from last summer (Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas State, and sorry for another history lesson but "yes" Kansas) Baylor is a smaller school, a religious based school, that was was told by the liberal schools on the West coast, they didn't want a religious school in their Conference.

Instead of sitting and "waiting" to see what fate is handed them, and ending up in a Conference on the other side of the planet, with Snooki, the Situation and all the other East Coast teams... they're exercising their leverage and with Kenneth Starr leading the charge, if the other schools joined in a version of a class action suit, it would be very interesting.

Baylor is in no way being manipulated by UT and never has...not about to start. Baylor has a football program trending up, a very solid baseball and basketball program, and simply are not going to go down to a Conference USA, or Mountain West, or WAC Conference without a fight...Seems some orphan schools would gain by the same approach.

texashawk10 3 years, 8 months ago

You need to go recheck your facts about last summer. KU, KSU, MU, and ISU all had Big East invites waiting for them. Baylor was the only school that was going to be left out in the cold.

Hank Cross 3 years, 8 months ago

Baylor doesn't care if the lawsuit has any merit. You don't need merit to file a lawsuit, you need a couple hundred dollars for filing fees. Baylor can tie this up in court for years, claiming justifiably that it will lose 100s of millions of dollars and loss of reputation if the B12 went away. It can force A&M and the SEC to sit for depositions, delve in to all their private communications.

UT had this ace in the hole all the time and waited for the last possible second to play it to humiliate the SEC and A&M.

Congrats to all who cheered the salvage of the B12 last year, this is what you got - indentured servitude. No one is leaving Bevo's ranch w/o its permission.

Matt. good work, but you can go to sleep or go fishing - the B12 isn't going anywhere. Time to go back to waiting for BB.

justinryman 3 years, 8 months ago

Be proactive not reactive.

KU needs to start talking and who cares if it is out in the open. They need to work on this and fast.

Nobody wants to be left in the pile of Iowa St., Baylor and Kansas St and possibly Missouri. It's time to be an individual, look out for #1 and move on from the disaster that is the Big12. Mr. Bebee has let it be ruined by all things Bevo and Mack Brown. He can not save the conference and should have never been put in charge of it.

Kansas it's time to move on and not look back any more.

142466 3 years, 8 months ago

Yes. Talk in public, though, only if it advances our intersts.

oldalum 3 years, 8 months ago

Apparently I'm the only one, but I have a lot of trouble understanding why Texas is in such demand. Sure, they have a lot to offer, but it's like selling your soul to the devil. In their determination to control everything, Texas is a destroyer of conferences. They drive other good teams away, or any other team that won't buckle under. (See SWC and Big 12.) When you add them to your conference you have to take the bad with the good, and I'm thinking their bad is more trouble than what you gain with the good. I'd be amazed if they agreed to go to the Pac12 where their bully act wouldn't fly. Much more likely they swoop in to "save" the Big12 again, and gain even more of an advantage over the rest of the conference.

justinryman 3 years, 8 months ago

I agree I don't see the love affair with Texas, but apparently it's there.

Here is another one of my opinions about Texas. I think they want the Big12 to crumble, that way they can go independent and blame all the other schools for letting the conference die. They won't take any blame and nothing will stick to them, just like a Chicago politician. Their $300 million TV deal was just the start of things for them to be able to go independent, Bebee has done nothing to control their actions and acts like it's everyone else's fault for leaving. A conference can not and will not survive with 8 teams, nor 6 nor 4. Texas knows this, so once OU and OK St. leave they can just say they are going to go on their own.

Again I don't see why another conference would want them.

jgkojak 3 years, 8 months ago

If Texas/Ttch go to the Pac and MO goes to the SEC, this is probably the best way for Kansas to worm its way into the Big 10. We may have to spend some time in purgatory in the Big East (which won't hurt our basketball program), but when Notre Dame decides it has to join the B10, the only AAU schools not already part of a solid conf. are Rutgers, Pitt and Kansas.

FLJHK 3 years, 8 months ago

Well, Matt. I think we're all pretty stumped by this latest development.

I'll tell you what. There's a part of me that just wants to say screw it. Let's go back to the original Big6/Big 8 members and find out who wants to be in. Then we re-establish an us vs. them mentality, the little states against the big ones, that gave the old Big 8 a great deal of its charm. Other schools could join in over time as circumstances warrant.

On a different level, it's really pretty hard to understand or justify what college athletics have become. Major college football and basketball are, in reality, professional sports. Just what they have to do with a college education is beyond me. And I admit that I'm as guilty as anyone in getting caught up in the hype.

Conference affiliations have great meaning beyond athletic competition. I feel genuine sympathy for the Iowa States and Kansas States of this world. Just what sins did they commit that justifies their being relegated to second tier status? And of course, Kansas could very well suffer a similar fate.

Anyway, just a bit of frustration bubbling out.

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 8 months ago

In the end I am not sure that anyone will put up a fight just because so much trust has been broken that I am not sure that the relationships can ever be restored. Too many affairs of the heart going on.

nuleafjhawk 3 years, 8 months ago

Will you look at all these rumors surroundin' me every day I just need some time, some time to get away from From all these rumors, I can't take it no more My best friend said there's one out now about me and the girl next door

I can't go no place without somebody pointin' a finger I can't show my face 'cause when it comes to rumors I'm a dead ringer It seems from rumors I just can't get away I bet there'll even be rumors floatin' around on Judgment Day I'll think I'll write my congressman and tell him to pass a bill For the next time they catch somebody startin' rumors, shoot to kill

Timex Social Club - Rumors, 1986

142466 3 years, 8 months ago

Yea, except that come Judgment Day, ou & ut will be singin' sweat religion cause they stole Gabrial's horn.

Ludwig Supraphonic 3 years, 8 months ago

The Baylor proxy for UT conspiracy theory is already resolved as a clerical error.I'm more interested in supporting KU than in hating UT; though every good drama does need a villain.

ejlumus 3 years, 8 months ago

Threat of a lawsuit?

I guarantee you if revenue stream drecreases from $15M plus to less than $10M someone will be due damages actual and punitive.

Schools that have revenue decreases will be part of the lawsuit.

BigAl 3 years, 8 months ago

This won't happen but I would like to see all of the remaining Big-12 schools get together and boot Texas out of the league. No one needs a greedy big brother. We could have OU become our anchor school, split revenues evenly and do away with the Longhorn Network. The old Big-8 was fine. We brought in those 4 Texas schools and things have gone downhill ever since. Too bad we didn't expand with the Mountain West instead of the old Southwest Conference. If we had, the Big-12 would be fine today. Texas has been a cancer on the Big-12 and it is past time to cut out the cancer.

I am so sick of Beebe and the universities laying down for Texas.

Ludwig Supraphonic 3 years, 8 months ago

Yeah, lets get out of the Texas market and go for Idaho. Then we can renegotiate the ESPN contract and play at midnight on ESPN4.

BigAl 3 years, 8 months ago

As long as we keep OU, we wouldn't lose a thing. Apparently you don't remember the Big-8. The Mountain West was just an example. Go with Louisville, BYU, Boise State, Memphis...etc. Why so scared of Texas? I used to be but when you get smacked around by a bully, you gotta smack him back and take care of #1. Texas' greed is driving this and it is time to put a stop to it.

Ludwig Supraphonic 3 years, 8 months ago

OU, OSU and Colorado with the 4 Texas schools voted to move out of KC. So the vote was 7-5. Currently would be 5-4 with Neb, TAMU, and CU gone. What Hx suggests OU has our back?

BigAl 3 years, 8 months ago

I just know that Texas definintely does NOT have our back. It is time to get out from under their shadow.

ejlumus 3 years, 8 months ago

Threat of a lawsuit?

I guarantee you if revenue stream drecreases from $15M plus to less than $10M someone will be due damages actual and punitive.

Schools that have revenue decreases will be part of the lawsuit.

Mike Gammill 3 years, 8 months ago

KU had better get its ducks in a row and pay attention, as well as their fans. All of this conference realignment is based on football. Why the Pac-12 liked Colorado is another story, CU isn't exactly a football powerhouse. But, the fact remains, that these are football based moves that are being made. Now the rumors swirl, at least here where I live, that OU, OSU, and Texas are packing up to move next. It seems the only obstacle is the Longhorn Network.

Frankly, KU has always for the most part, sucked at pigskin. There have been a few notable exceptions, but 9 bowl appearances in over 110 years of competition says quite a lot. What gives the KU nation any confidence that the Big East, Big 10, or any other conference will invite KU based on basketball prowess alone? I could just as easily see KU, KSU, ISU, and perhaps even MU, fall to mid-major status if all this breakup shakes out. If that happens and there is no automatic NCAA bid for the conference winner, whereever KU might end up, Katy bar the door. I don't believe HCBS would stick around and work under such circumstances. Neither would any other big name, proven coach. In essence, there would go our national program. KU has nothing else much to offer, at least in terms of broadcast market or geography. We can take pride in the fact that we are a good school that offers a great education. But even that seems to take a back seat to athletics these days.

I believe the Board of Regents would be smart enough, hopefully, not to let this happen in the first place. But, you wonder because of all the talk of keeping KU and KSU together, regardless of circumstances. I could see that taking precedence over everything else, program be damned.

The chancellor and AD need to be on top of this and other developments, and be ultra proactive in the process, and eliminate big trouble before it has a chance to start.

Just my opinion...

142466 3 years, 8 months ago

Good, well reasoned opinion. I trust the Regents et al are spitting out this stuff just to clear their throats and, behind closed doors, are dealing with reality. Better for our State to have 1 school in the big leagues & 1 in the minors than to send both of them down to Omaha.

Mike Gammill 3 years, 8 months ago

Right you are! I missed '03, '05, and '08. Still my point remains. Most "football" schools have that many in 12 years, not 100.

Bob Schutz 3 years, 8 months ago

Matt,

You are doing a great job staying on top of this.....Thanks

d_prowess 3 years, 8 months ago

CU didn't hold anything back with their comments about the Big 12. They are clearly pissed right now that they may have some Big 12 schools back in their conference!

kureignman 3 years, 8 months ago

Going to be a lot harder to recruit Cali kids when they are not playing there.

rob4lb 3 years, 8 months ago

I don't see how you can force A&M to remain in the conference. It really does no one any good. I'm not sure if that is the desired outcome or if this is a way to make conferences gun shy about poached another Big 12 school.

It is hard to believe that the conference can stay together given some of the very public statements coming out of OU, O-State, Missouri and Texas. I suppose something can be cobbed together and every school can make state "how happy we are to continue in the Big 12".

This could have been fixed easily if UT decided to operate under the same rules as every other conference. They have not and will not so these issues will continue.

It is clear that none of the power conferences want to be the first mover in getting to 16 teams. I think this could play out slower than many people think. It could end with a dud with the SEC saying they will explore an option for a 14th team and the Big 12 deciding to stick with nine teams for awhile. Of course, that is just a version of athletic purgatory!

142466 3 years, 8 months ago

I urge everybody to read the very first post, by justinryman. He's correct. Let A&M go. I agree with the rest of his opinions, too.

FreddyinLA 3 years, 8 months ago

College administrators, tools for the elite, foundations, and corporation who line their pockets are now experts on conference alignment. These people don’t even know what a football looks like. Hopefully they can get back to the business of raising fees and assuring graduates are further in debt.

I’m amazed at the “Sheeple acceptance, I got a great idea” of the majority. I guess it’s the same reaction to our country being gutted out by the same elite. This thing has gone way beyond stupid. As Mark Cuban said, this will result in fewer fans, lost rivalries, and no more money than when this started. Just another exercise in corruption and chaos.

If I were Baylor and ISU, I would take the Big 12, SEC, and TAM to court. This deal could cost them about $10M/ year, the difference in TV revenue between a BCS conference and the Missouri Valley.

JayDocMD 3 years, 8 months ago

Anyone else notice how quiet Bill Self has been through all of this? Last year he seemed to be the de facto voice of the school. Maybe he's just sitting back and seeing what happens like the rest of us, but I find his silence making me nervous.

Matt Tait 3 years, 8 months ago

Last year during all this, KU had an athletic director who was on his way out and had a lot of other things on his mind... Coach Self stepped up because the school needed someone to do so.

This year, he's sitting back because leadership is in place and working on KU's behalf.

Don't read too much into his silence...

justinryman 3 years, 8 months ago

Nice insight Matt.

You are doing a great job of manning the WWW and the phones. thanks for the up to the minute updates day in and day out.

You should be up for a raise after this. Just sayin.

texashawk10 3 years, 8 months ago

Come on Iowa St. and join Baylor in their lawsuit. Give A&M and the SEC a giant middle finger and screw them over as much as possible. The only school that should be signing that waiver now is Missouri or they can guarantee West Virginia will be the 14th school to the SEC.

iluvdbskxjayhawks 3 years, 8 months ago

I'm really sad that things has come to this end. I grew up with Big 12 and to see it like this really hurts. I guess I'm a traditionalist. If there's a way we can still try to make things work out in Big 12 with the remaining teams, that would be great. I don't want to leave Kansas State behind. I have family there too. I also feel bad for Baylor. Texas A&M should of left last year when they wanted to do so, rather than waiting until now to leave again and bringing this issue up. I'm so sick of this drama. Just get it over and done with. The bigger schools like OU have trust issues. If these schools can't trust each other then just leave. Aargh!

jgkojak 3 years, 8 months ago

The dominoes:

A&M>SEC OU/OSU/Tex/Ttch>PAC WVU>SEC Rutgers/Pitt>B10 Syracuse/UConn>ACC

jgkojak 3 years, 8 months ago

The dominoes:

A&M>SEC OU/OSU/Tex/Ttch>PAC WVU>SEC Rutgers/Pitt>B10 Syracuse/UConn>ACC

LogicMan 3 years, 8 months ago

B1G not likely to act swiftly, unfortunately.

WVa to SEC does seem more likely than MU. But the SEC could go to 16.

LogicMan 3 years, 8 months ago

You know, if I were the SEC, I'd go after North Carolina and Virginia (or Virginia Tech). And maybe Maryland instead of West Virginia, to complete the 16.

Then "The South shall rise again!" would come true, at least in football.

hawksince51 3 years, 8 months ago

This NY Post article was forwarded to me by an NY Jayhawk friend. It has KU going to the Big East as a part of a 12 FB school plan. Would then have 20 for BB. I have felt all along that our most realistic option is the Big East. We are simply too weak in FB for the Pac XX, B1G, or SEC let alone other issues such as their having room for us given their other options.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/big_east_thinking_big_ou8JdQKJUhWEeCUtGv7dNP?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=

Sparko 3 years, 8 months ago

Here is the deal. The super conference idea is a stupid idea that will cost most schools money in the end. They are too big to matter. We have a lot of sales hucksters who will make out in the short term, but the long term value of a super conference is questionable. You need to make a conference relevant to its fans.

trey 3 years, 8 months ago

Ending up in the Big East with Iowa State and K-State, is NOT "winning" in the realignment game. It is a massive step-down for KU, and in my view big time "losing" in the realignment game. Because the Big East is going to blow up next, and it could be while we are on the way in. See West Virgina to SEC (if asked, they're going). See Pitt or Rutgers or Syracuse to the BIG (if asked, they're gone). See UConn to the ACC (not happened yet, but the ACC isn't going to sit still and if they invite UConn, they're going).

We win in realignment only if we end up in the BIG (which apparently has no interest in KU; I was hoping that an MU/KU combo to the BIG was viable), or we end up in the PAC (which though not perfect, I think could be very good for KU, especially if we go with OU, OSU and either Texas or MU).

Please not the Big East with K-State and Iowa State.

hawksince51 3 years, 8 months ago

Agree it would be a step-down but that appears to be our fate due to our poor FB program and relatively limited TV mkt. As you say, B1G is not interested in KU and I seriously doubt that the PAC XX is either given all their other options. SEC will apparently decide between MU and WVU soon. B1G now has 12 and seems to be in no hurry to go beyond that. They are probably hoping for ND and can afford to be patient. If/when they get ND they would probably poach one of the Big East schools you mention. So, I feel the Big East is preferable to our other realistic options like the Mtn. West or USA.

142466 3 years, 8 months ago

PAC is our best option & I think it's still possible. If the KU honchos learn that the PAC is going to 16 without us, then they should do everything possible to persuade them to go to 17 or 18, with KU.

PAC should think long-term. There are only a few plausible PAC worthy invitees in the entire western half of USA. And that will still be true 20 years from now. This is likely the only opportunity that the relatively weak bb PAC will ever have to reel in the best bb program in the West. UCLA should be pushing hard, real hard, for our entry.

Bear86 3 years, 8 months ago

Well said. The BE would be a big step down. That conference will be the next to disintegrate. F-Texas!

Hank Cross 3 years, 8 months ago

I really hate to cite Chip Brown, but if this is true: "Beebe sent a letter back to Slive on Tuesday saying the waiver in that Sept. 2 letter applied only to the Big 12 Conference and was not binding to the Big 12's member schools.

The SEC was contacted on Tuesday by lawyers representing Baylor that BU did not intend to waive its right to sue the SEC, sources said."

Then there is no "clerical mistake" and Baylor intends to back down the SEC.

And as this editorial points out, the real question is why aren't KSU and ISU joining the fight? http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/209967/20110907/texas-a-m-sec-baylor-lawsuit.htm

FeaRRaef 3 years, 8 months ago

Ummm....what?! Did you maybe mean "It called NU Russia saying it was a declining super power" -- still upset about Collison's HUGE night on Big Monday, huh?

BigAl 3 years, 8 months ago

Kansas has been in the top 3 or 4 the past few years in Big-12 conference pay-out money. That tells me that basketball does play a part. Sadly, KSU falls way down the list. Everything I have been reading and seeing on television tells me that KU is definitely ahead of KSU in this conference realignment. One difference is that KU is nationally known as a basketball school. K-State just isn't known for either football or basketball. Not a conference in the country would take KSU ahead of KU.

DallasJayhawk1 3 years, 8 months ago

This isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I said last year and I will say it again this time--the traditions and rivalries in Texas are too deep for this to happen. With Baylor re-tracting their vote it means nobody is going to make a sudden drastic move. In my opinion.

justinryman 3 years, 8 months ago

Ashes to ashes. Dust to dust.

The Big12 is dead on June 30th, 2012.

It is sitting on life support this year and is just waiting for the cord to be removed from the outlet. It has no brain function(Bebee) and needs to be let go and harvested for organs(KU, KSU, MU, ISU, OKst., OU, BU, TT and UT). It gave up a kidney and a lung last year(NU and CU) and it doesn't have a good outlook for any type of recovery. The bleeding is to immense, the organs lost can not be replaced with any of value(ND, Boise, Ark.) so to make it in the world today each organ must go it's separate way make the next body(PAC##, B1G, SEC, Big East, ACC) they are in stronger and better.

(cue the sound of the flatline)

JayDocMD 3 years, 8 months ago

Agreed, except CU more like the appendix than a vital organ.

iluvdbskxjayhawks 3 years, 8 months ago

lol. thanks for writing this. it actually cracked me up and lighten up the mood.

willie_fu_fu 3 years, 8 months ago

I remember last year ISU was ready to drop down to the D1AA level if/when the conference dissolved. Are they still thinking that way?

Tony Bandle 3 years, 8 months ago

The inevitable conclusion somewhere in the future is that the networks will end up devising a Super Super Conference that is sport specific.

For football, it could be Texas, Alabama, Michigan, Ohio State, USC, Oklahoma, Florida, Notre Dame, Penn State, Michigan State, Boise State, Nebraska, Georgia, Florida State, Auburn, UCLA for example. Eight marquee match-ups per week, all on pay for view.

For basketball, it could be Kansas, Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke, UCLA, Indiana, Ohio State, Texas, Washington, USC, Arizona, BYU, Pitt, Louisville, UCONN, Syracuse. Ditto to the above.

Everybody else will be broken up into regional super conferences.

It may be another decade or so but this is where it's headed.

Sooner or later $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ always wins!!

rob4lb 3 years, 8 months ago

Another article promoting KU for the Pac 12. By the way Babboy- I've looked hard and not found one article that projects K-State to the Pac 12, SEC or Big Ten.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=jn-king_kansas_hoops_would_fit_pac12_090611

hawksince51 3 years, 8 months ago

I'd also like to think BB would be enough to carry the day but have seen no evidence in the last 1 1/2 years to support that.. And even the author of this article says it is unlikely and that KU probably ends up in the Big East.

LogicMan 3 years, 8 months ago

That article is four hours old. An eternity on this day.

Justin Lindsley 3 years, 8 months ago

Hey Matt, With some of these new developments... Do you think there is anyway the Big 12 goes on? Maybe add a few schools. Would anyone dare sign on now? There seems to be a few in the Big 12 who do not keep their side of the deal up.

LogicMan 3 years, 8 months ago

"Would anyone dare sign on"?

Yes, but only after the dust settles.

Matt Tait 3 years, 8 months ago

No doubt that it's possible... My gut feeling tells me we've gone way too far down the path this time around. But there are enough schools — including Kansas — that are still interested in seeing the Big 12 survive so it definitely could happen.

I can see how it might be tough for new teams to want to join right now but if the league survives the money will be there and money talks...

Justin Lindsley 3 years, 8 months ago

Matt, What were some reasons given to choose Mizzou of KU???

Matt Tait 3 years, 8 months ago

Seems to be in the middle of more people. Two markets (KC and STL) instead of one. Better overall athletic department performance.

Those were the main ones...

texashawk10 3 years, 8 months ago

The PAC 12 will always be the best cultural and academic fit for KU, but politics could very well keep that from happening. I'm guessing Iowa St. officials are wishing like hell that Missouri is the 14th SEC school so they could tag along with KU and KSU to the Big East.

Since turning the LHN into a regional network appears to be one of the sticking points for the PAC 12 inviting Texas, Kansas should talk to UT about being their regional partner in a move to the PAC 12 instead of Texas Tech. KU-UT partnership would be the crown jewel regional network for the PAC 12 with a top 3 name brand for football season and a top 3 name brand for basketball season to carry the network. Get on the phone with the UT staff right now and pitch that idea BGL and SZ.

Bear86 3 years, 8 months ago

That's about the stupidest idea I have read on this string of post's. (Try not to forget who screwed you, your sister, your cousin & demanded money for it after they were finished) Keep drinking that Orange cool texashawk10. F-Texas !!!

Justin Lindsley 3 years, 8 months ago

What happens if everyone decides to stay put and then Mizzou bolts for the SEC? Then what happens. You wouldn't be able to blame them for leaving this disfunctional family!

LogicMan 3 years, 8 months ago

West Virginia seems to be in the lead to be 14th in the SEC. A better cultural fit. But if they go to 16, or more, all of the South could be reunited.

texashawk10 3 years, 8 months ago

I find it kind of funny that a state that fought with the Union during the Civil is a better cultural fit in SEC than a state that was part of the Confederacy. I'm not disagreeing, I just find it funny.

JayDocMD 3 years, 8 months ago

As usual, enjoyed your last update Matt. With the line: "If that's the case, it could be time for KU to call in some heavy hitters to lobby for the Jayhawks." Was wondering who you meant by "heavy hitters." Perkins? (just kidding - kind of) Anschutz? Politicians? Just curious.

LogicMan 3 years, 8 months ago

Too bad Wilt's gone. He would've impressed some folk, had he come knocking at their doors.

Matt Tait 3 years, 8 months ago

No. Not Lew. But you're not the first person who has said that.

I'm talking anyone who might have any influence/connections in the Pac-12 or Big Ten... That could include current and former coaches, donors, politicians, whomever.

pvksjhawk 3 years, 8 months ago

What about Dana Anderson? He lives in LA. Be interested to see what he and his son Justin have to say about a move to the Pac12.

Clarence Haynes 3 years, 8 months ago

" the SEC wants all nine schools in the Big 12 to sign a waiver saying they will not sue the SEC over the depature of Texas A&M to the SEC and the Big 12 schools will not sign those waivers."

Okay, if A&M [ays the full exit fee!

DallasJayhawk1 3 years, 8 months ago

Andy Katz needs to stick to b-ball reporting--he's good at that. I like Stoops (but I don't like the rest of OU) but his comment yesterday about the Red River Rivalry not having to happen is short-sighted at best. That game and weekend has a huge financial impact on the economy here in DFW. It's a Texas State Fair tradition--which is why they re-newed the contact to play it at the Cotton Bowl rather than Jerry Jones's Death Star.

Studogg 3 years, 8 months ago

It prolly won't shake out this way, but this is what I'd have to say makes the most sense for KU. A Pac-16 Super Conference with KU, OU, OSU, and BYU rounding out the current twelve teams. Divisions would look like this...

COASTAL--Washington, WaZZu, Oregon, Oregon St., Stanford, Cal, UCLA, USC

MOUNTAIN--Arizona, Arizona St, Colorado, Utah, BYU, KU, Oklahoma, Okie St

Colorado will have to just GET OVER it.

justinryman 3 years, 8 months ago

Why go geographical? The one thing the B1G did right last year was splitting the teams up and not by a mason Dixon type line. Sure they screwed up by naming them Legends and Leaders, but they got the balance right.

Maybe if Kansas would get picked to join the PAC## you could have the Wooden League with UCLA, Stanford, Arizona, Oregon, Colorado and Utah and Wash U. And the Trojan League with UCS, Washington, Oregon St. Kansas, Arizona st, Cal and BYU.

Not that it will happen that way let alone KU and BYU getting picked to join the conference.

justinryman 3 years, 8 months ago

Just realized your coastal division is the original PAC 8 Conference teams. The PAC10 started late 70's by adding AZ and AZ st.

Redlandsjhawk 3 years, 8 months ago

Hey look on the bright side! In a few years we won't have to worry about playing a mid-major in the tournament, we'll be one!!

please oh please don't let this come true!!

Andy Tweedy 3 years, 8 months ago

Matt, you may or may not know this, but Tom Shatel is a Missouri grad. I live in Omaha, and this isn't the first time he's said these things. He believes the idea that KC is a Misery town is a misconception with many around the country.

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 8 months ago

I think it is just time to leave it in God's hands. KU has the right tack to not beg and have some dignity. We don't need to find someone to do the begging for us either. Just give it up, stop striving, and pray. I have to as this is just driving me crazy and I am not getting things done. Who knows what Providence has in store? It could be something we have not even considered.

tis4tim 3 years, 8 months ago

You're either a highly sarcastic fellow or you're a highly religious one.

If the latter be true, you are no doubt familiar with the saying, "God helps those who help themselves." KU must still work diligently to ensure a bright and profitable future for itself. (Perhaps bright and profitable are redundant terms in today's athletic landscape.) Only after we've done all we can, do we let the chips fall as they will.

Intention with detachment.

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 8 months ago

I agree. Due diligence with hope. Keep our dignity, though.

rob4lb 3 years, 8 months ago

Looking objectively, I have always thought MU was more attractive to a conference than KU. They do deliver more TV sets. It is the only major university in a fairly populated state. It has successful athletic programs and good facilities. It has a 70,000 seat football stadium and its academics are comparable to KU's. To me, our athletic budget,academics, national alumni base, national brand resulting from basketball success separates us from Iowa State, Baylor and K-State

If you read as many of the speculation articles I have, you know that MU is mentioned more frequently as a possible Big 10 school and they are definitely on the short list to go to the SEC.

Matt- you mentioned heavy hitters. Do people like KU alum Philip Anschutz have any pull particularly in the Pac 12?. Would he even get involved like Boone Pickens has for OSU.

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 8 months ago

For your viewing pleasure while waiting for more news:

At this link there are a number of clips from the McNeese game. Pierson's run was very impressive. When he turns on the afterburners watch out.

rob4lb 3 years, 8 months ago

I got this note today from the President of KU Alumni Association. No real news:

Dear Jayhawk:

Amid the latest round of conference realignment discussions, I want all KU alumni to know that Chancellor Bernadette Gray-Little and Dr. Sheahon Zenger, KU athletics director, are aggressively pursuing the best possible outcome for KU. As the chancellor expressed yesterday, they will continue to keep our community informed.

The unsurpassed loyalty of the Jayhawk Nation is one of KU's greatest assets. Thanks for all you do to strengthen KU.

Rock Chalk!

Kevin J. Corbett, c’88 President kcorbett@kualumni.org

Hank Cross 3 years, 8 months ago

SEC sending smoke signals that it may not be interested in fighting for A&M.

"But the league doesn't want to wage a court battle for the Aggies.

"Texas A&M is a great school, but we don't' want to involve ourselves in any legal action over all of that," said David Williams, Vanderbilt's vice chancellor for University Affairs and Athletics."

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/09/07/texas-am-sec.ap/index.html#ixzz1XIUtmqKM

DallasJayhawk1 3 years, 8 months ago

Yep--sure looks like it. Good job Aggies--way to not have your ducks in a row. SEC doesn't want a legal battle for sure.

rob4lb 3 years, 8 months ago

Sounds like that hurdle has been cleared. Ultimately if a school wants to leave you have to let them leave.

LogicMan 3 years, 8 months ago

"Sounds like that hurdle has been cleared."

Source?

"Ultimately if a school wants to leave you have to let them leave."

So their word, and binding contracts don't matter?

But TAMU is mainly a State of Texas family fight; it's best to stay the heck out of the way.

HawkSchooner 3 years, 8 months ago

As far as heavy hitters - how about Sheila Bair? Perhaps the outgoing FDIC chair could threaten a boatload of bank examinations in states with universities opposed or even indifferent to KU's addition.

William Daniels 3 years, 8 months ago

Still fresh fodder in the Big 12-staying-alive news, which just in my mind adds another nail to the coffin:

http://arkansasnews.com/2011/09/07/blog-long-confirms-big-12-expressed-interest-in-arkansas/

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 8 months ago

Attractive to four or five conferences? Well, that may be but is totally irrelevant. There are two geographic fits, SEC and Big12. Period. I guess he could petition the PAC just to get an offer he could frame and put up on his wall. It would help ease the pain after every heartbreaking season of Arkansas getting its backside kicked and after two decades still not having a conference title.

jgkojak 3 years, 8 months ago

A couple comments:

Why doesn't the NCAA just say they won't recognize a league champion in football in any league bigger than 12 members (or 14)?

Shouldn't ESPN/FOX bear some responsibility here- maybe they should just stop and say "we don't want a contract with a 16 team league and won't pay any more for that than a 14 team league or less"?

With a position of power driven by $$ comes some social responsibility (i.e. for the student athletes).

FLJHK 3 years, 8 months ago

Some possible scenarios that could unfold, only half in jest.

  1. A&M is successful in their move to the SEC. Shortly thereafter, MU is offered the 14th spot in the Yahoo conference, and joins their southern brethren. (If I'm the SEC I take MU in a heartbeat over WVU - easy decision).

  2. The PAC cools on expansion for now. They heed the concerns of CU officials who say they didn't join the PAC just to rejoin their former Big 12 colleagues in an eastern division PAC. Further, they conclude that Texas brings too much baggage, and T.Tech brings virtually nothing at all. After considering the Oklahoma schools, they realize there's not a lot of substance there. OU certainly offers a fine football tradition, but why do they want to bring in a school that's just going to kick butt on the gridiron for years. OSU brings golf and wrestling, but those are not big sellers in the PAC. Neither school contributes positively the the PAC's educational pedigree. Further, no PAC schools are tempted to leave their coastal and mountain homes to take road trips to Oklahoma.

  3. Texas studies the feasibility of athletic independence. But their efforts are thwarted by the realization that no one really likes them, and the only schools willing to schedule games with them are cupcakes looking for a payday. So they begrudgingly reaffirm a commitment to the Big 12, provided their unequal revenue streams continue uninterrupted.

  4. So the Big 12 survives for another year or two in total limbo, with all members disliking each other and looking to get out.

  5. Meanwhile attention shifts to the east and southeast. The SEC makes its move to become the first 16-team megaconference by targeting Florida State and either Georgia Tech or Va Tech.

  6. The ACC counterattacks and begins a raid on the Big East. Conference wars ensue with the ultimate victors to be determined, but Vegas establishes the SEC as the overwhelming favorite, and the ACC a solid choice over the Big East.

FLJHK 3 years, 8 months ago

Also, the Big 10 stands pat, with a standing offer to Notre Dame.

texashawk10 3 years, 8 months ago

If I was an Iowa St. official, the only way I'd waive the right to sue TAMU and the SEC would be there was a guarantee that Missouri would be the 14th team because that opens the door for Iowa St. to tag along with KU and KSU to the Big East should that be the scenario that plays out. Any other outcome and ISU is headed the MWC or C-USA.

rob4lb 3 years, 8 months ago

I think that was me and I was under the impression that Baylor was the school who threatened a law suit. They had since decided against it, but it appears other schools may still sue. Sorry about that.

justinryman 3 years, 8 months ago

This is starting to sound a lot like sandlot baseball.

The SEC, The PAC## and The B1G are the captains. They will pick the guys they want to play with and who will make them better, be it in the rankings, the TV markets or recruiting.

With that, they will pick guys who are in their neighborhoods (got to keep things regional) and then pick the leftovers. now some of the left overs might get picked earlier cause they are a little brother(Iowa st to Iowa) or they may get left a little further down the list because they have a little step brother nobody wants( KU and Kst.).

Now there is another playground a little further away and the captains there aren't as good and who knows how long that park will stay standing? So the guys who weren't picked can either go over there and test the waters or see if there is enough leftovers to make up their own team of toys from misfit island.

With all that being put into perspective, KU isn't regional to many of the Big captains. Nor does it have a Big Brother to carry it along, but as mentioned above it does have a lil step brother. Now it can go to another playground, the Big East and see what happens there and who knows for how long. Or it can try and salvage what is left of the Big12 and see if that works.

The University of Kansas it's coaches and it's fans need to look in the mirror and say. "I am good enough. I can be a big player and gosh darnit people like me."

justinryman 3 years, 8 months ago

To add to the sandlot affect, if KU joins the legal battle as reported by a Dallas radio station per Matt Tait at the 3:27 update.

KU will become the kid that got tackled to hard, called out with a good slide or fouled on the winning shot that didn't go in, and is taking their ball and going home to tell mom.

I really hope they don't get in a legal battle, it looks desperate and yeah they are, but you don't show your hand.

As Kenny Rogers sang, "you got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away know when to run."

Kevin Randell 3 years, 8 months ago

I agree....joining the legal battle just makes us look like the pathetic guy who can't let go...even when the ex-girlfriend already has another man. We just need to suck it up, and start calling other conferences.

Justin Lindsley 3 years, 8 months ago

GREED!!!!! the root of all evil...... this could get ugly quick! Its to bad it has come to this.

LogicMan 3 years, 8 months ago

So maybe we will have another year or two to firm up the football program. What specific things do we need to do besides winning more games?

justinryman 3 years, 8 months ago

Matt, question here.

With Texas A&M leaving what dies this do to the new TV contract? Will it become void? Or what are the ramifications with it?

rob4lb 3 years, 8 months ago

I agree. I hope we are not getting involved in a law suit. It does smack of desperation. I wonder is this is being orchestrated by UT. I don't trust those guys. Let's say the SEC gets cold feet and decides not to admit A&M. Now what? A&M is in a place it doesn't want to be. They will be isolated by the rest of the members. The trust level will never be restored. Why don't schools forces coaches to stick to their contract? It's because if they don't want to be there, they will not be effective.

So the Big 12 now becomes Hotel California. "You can check out any time you'd like, but you can never leave". Not a good environment for anyone to be in.

JayDocMD 3 years, 8 months ago

Perhaps wishful thinking, but it kinda seems like the momentum is ever so slightly shifting. Is there really a KU/KSU/ISU/Baylor blockade? Interesting.

I don't think any current B12 members will ultimately keep A&M from going - its all about slowing things down so OU stops looking West. Texas now willing to share a piece of the pie perhaps? They may realize that they still come out ahead by sharing some of the Longwhorn Network $$ with OU and the rest of us tagalongs. Seems that no other conference will let them keep it all either.

Now on the itty bitty chance the Big 12 completes a second Hail Mary in two years and the conference is given a stay of execution, there will have to be a reworking of the exit-fee/out clause. Otherwise, what's to keep Mizzou from bolting to SEC with A&M after the dust settles.

FeaRRaef 3 years, 8 months ago

Such a sad state of affairs. Quantity over quality and FB rules the day. Why was it easy for CU to enter the PAC? Denver's tv sets they say. I'd be interested to see what the total TV audience would be for let's say CU vs. UCLA in FB and BB. I just can't imagine KU vs. UCLA in FB and BB would attract fewer viewers!? Would UCLA at the Buffs in Coors Event Ctr. be a Saturday afternoon or Big Monday game?? I guarantee you UCLA coming to the Phog for a conference tilt would be.

Unfortunately common sense doesn't enter into this equation.

142466 3 years, 8 months ago

Your 1st paragraph=Common Sense.

By the end of this free for all, KU will have secured a PAC invitation. Common sense will rule.

In the near future, 4 geographically based Super Conferences, with at least 16 members each, will rule from sea to shining sea. Then, each year at the end of January, the Prez of us all will be able to invite the true champion to D.C. for photos.

The PAC, the instigator (publiclly, anyway) of all this bloodshed, surely compiled a list of all PAC caliber potential invitees & thoroughly investigated every one of them. A year or so ago the PAC whittled the list down to about 8. Tex A&M was officially scratched out a few days ago. Obviously, good news for KU.

The PAC knows that practical, geographical constaints prevent them from going too far afield. KC is about as far east as they'll go. (there might be 1 exception--Columbia, Mo). And the PAC knows that for at least the next 20 years it's unlikey that any other schools could be added to the list. Too many deserts & mountain ranges; too few people. Outside the State of California, there are only two schools omitted from the PAC'S investigatorial list that can hope to someday be added: the Lobos & the Wolf Pack.

So the PAC needs to act quickly before too many schools on their current list look eastward. Now is the time for the relatively bb weak PAC to reel in the best bb program in the West. Now is likely the only opportunity they will ever get to do so.

KU will bite the hook, accepting the invitation. Within a few years the easteners will be debating who is better, Jayhawks, Longhorns, or Bruins. Of course they'll still be talking Blue Devils v Tar Hills, too.

jgkojak 3 years, 8 months ago

KU/ISU/KSU/Baylor all gain from blocking A&M to the SEC without some conditions.

1) All gain by the SEC taking MU as the 14th team. Why? ISU automatically qualifies for the Big East. And Kansas is one step close to being the Big 10's best choice for 16th team (after Rutgers, Pitt and Notre Dame).

2) If they can set MU up in a position where the SEC offers MU on the same time-table as A&M, then MU has to say NO if they want B10 consideration.

3) The Big 10 can't wait for Notre Dame- if they really want MU, they need to get Rutgers and Pitt on board. KU is betting its a toss-up w/MU- and while they'd prefer MU, they're not gonna let it interfere with their 2016 TV renegotiation timetable (meaning they need to know by 2014 who their 16 teams are).

4) If the Big 10 is smart - they'll wink at MU, and MU will turn down the SEC. When this happens...

5) MU suddenly needs the B12 to be viable until 2014 or 2015. So suddenly...

6) Texas has an out with the Pac -- for now, they can go on with or without Oklahoma/OSU. or

7) The Big 6 (KU, KSU, ISU, MU, Baylor) raid the Big East for Louisville, Cincinatti and TCU to get to 8 in football and enter a 3 year holding pattern (and setting up the future for ISU, KSU and Baylor to be a member of a new B-12) while the Big East implodes.

willie_fu_fu 3 years, 8 months ago

So how about this playing out, Big 12 goes bye bye which opens up the Fiesta Bowl AQ spot in the BCS. The Mountain West quickly jumps on the phone to get that bid and become a BCS conference while adding a few schools, meanwhile KU, KSU, and ISU are all stuck in a crumbling Big Least conference being poached by the SEC, ACC, and Big 10. If KU ends up in the Big East then we will have already lost since current Big East teams are already targets for other conferences.

Tony Bandle 3 years, 8 months ago

Gosh Almighty and, Lord forgive me, but this is fun!!!

The reality is no one knows Jack S### what anyone else is thinking, or planning or trying to sneak in or around!! And the media is firing off minute by minute rumors, accusations, pronouncements and bulletins.

This is like babysitting my four nieces....with a broken TV!!

I guess all we can do is try to enjoy the journey because the final destination may be a Motel 6 rather than a Hyatt Regency!!!

FLJHK 3 years, 8 months ago

Only the NCAA tourney matches the drama and intrigue!

142466 3 years, 8 months ago

KU, get on board the PAC train and bring along 3,4, or 5 of your B12 brothers

Jayhawk444 3 years, 8 months ago

What do BU/KU/KSU/ISU have to lose by holding this process in legal limbo for awhile? Not much. They certainly have nothing to gain by immediately waiving their right to sue. MU needs to be careful because they don't want to piss off the SEC, but the rest of us? Meh. Why not make a little noise if for no other reason than to see what happens. I don't see how it could hurt

texashawk10 3 years, 8 months ago

Hey Matt, I have a question about Colorado and Utah. Do they have fulling voting rights within the PAC 12 yet or do they have to wait a preset amount of time before they can vote on matters such as further expansion.

Hank Cross 3 years, 8 months ago

Go ISU and Baylor! Granted I hate the B12 and think Bevo is behind this all to keep us as peasants on its ranch, but there is something else is at issue here. I see no point in playing "go along to get along" and happily acquiesce to being put in danger of second class status. If KU benefits from refusing to sign the waiver, don't sign it. If it doesn't, sign it. We are under no moral, ethical or legal obligation to put A&M's and/or the SEC's interests ahead of our own.

Bville Hawk 3 years, 8 months ago

KU doesn't need to sue the SEC / TA&M, they just need to withhold their agreement to waive their right to sue until they are compensated (this is, after all, all about money) for damages caused by the move of A&M to the SEC. I don't see this as KU losing face or looking desperate, it's just good business. I don't think it necessarily needs to slow the process down, everything has a price.

Like a lot of other posters, I too am fed up with being in a conference that includes UT, but to my way of thinking anyhow, A&M is the one that looks likes a cry baby here.

trey 3 years, 8 months ago

Matt, question(s)...

How is this different that when Nebraska and Colorado left last year. Did the PAC and BIG "not" ask for this same assurance, and thus took these schools exposing the conference and/or schools to lawsuits (that then never happened)?

If the Big12 schools waive their legal rights to sue A&M or the SEC (per their request), would that ALSO eliminate the leagues ability to collect the 30M exit fee from A&M?

In other words, is this about the potential 30M penalty fee for leaving, or something broader, ie. sue the SEC for all lost revenue a school might incur based on this move?

BarkingHawk 3 years, 8 months ago

This is how wars start. Miscalculations of intentions, meanings, half-truths, etc.

That said, how else are you going to force people who make deals to honor their agreements?

And how are you going to impress another conference that you are so weak and meek as to let the wildcatters run all over you like has been going on here for years now?

Good for ISU and Baylor for saying 'No.' Hope we've got the guts to hang with them.

Of course, the downside is a perception that we are so desperate that we have to resort to legal threats. But, why have contracts if you're not going to enforce them? Sure would like to see what those with fellow league members and the networks actually say.

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 8 months ago

The flip side is that holding people accountable is not something a weak person or institution does. TAMU said it was committed to the conference but it was not. Bang. Hold them to their word.k

If we are sold this idea that we have to be gracious and let us part company as friends, I ask who is selling this and what have they to gain????

Keep the conference together. Now it is time to confront Texas and level the playing field.

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 8 months ago

The more I think about this the more it appears the SEC is trying to look like they want TAMU while actually not wanting them. By asking all the member schools of the Big12 to sign a waiver like that is preposterous. It must have taken TAMU by surprise. No attorney would ever advise a school to waive that kind of a right unless it was part of a settlement. That not being the case here, the SEC is closing the door in a way that saves face for everyone. Well, this is the end. That's it folks. End of poaching season. The lawyers have won and the Big12 is saved. Darn. Now I want a divorce after this abuse. PAC won't be making any offers either. OU certainly isn't going anywhere if the remaining teams are going to sue them.

Hank Cross 3 years, 8 months ago

BTW - Since Baylor communicated its intention not waive its rights prior to the SEC admitting A&M on the terms of the letter, Baylor has probably the winning argument that the offer of the Sept. 2 letter was rendered void.

Ben Kliewer 3 years, 8 months ago

4:31 update: That's messed up. Quit bailing and let the ship sink guys, it's a lost cause. They're all acting like a bunch of children and it's embarrassing to have KU involved. They're trying to tell a dead horse to get up and gallop. If they think this is a counter-punch to ensure the leagues survival, wake up, it's just flapping your arms while the plane goes down. They're going to call your bluff, OU is going to the PAC and nobody is going to sue A&M or the SEC, and then no other leagues are going to want our sorry schools because of our sorry behavior. Also, I'm running out of metaphors.

rob4lb 3 years, 8 months ago

Why do this? Maybe you can squeeze out some extra money. It is interesting that OU, O-State and UT are not part of the group. I'm sure UT is supporting this. The conference continues to reach new heights of dysfunctionality and needs to be put out of its misery.

David Atchley 3 years, 8 months ago

"As of 4:20, Gray-Little remained on the phone and Marchiony said he did not know when Gray-Little and the university would make a decision" Is that 4:20 a marijuana reference? Was she still on the phone long after someone had hung-up? "

Does anybody really know what time it is....does anyone really care?"

DallasJayhawk1 3 years, 8 months ago

4:31 update: so now we are asking OU to be a Big 12 bully along with UT ? Where is our pride. I understand that keeping the conference alive is the conservative appproach. Hopefully they have a plan to offer OU that brings in another school that we can replace aTm with and not just beg "Please, don't go !"

DallasJayhawk1 3 years, 8 months ago

Also a buddy of mine that went to Baylor sent this to me from their site--indeed true the amount of football tradition here.

http://www.baylor.edu/nation/texasfootball.htm

texashawk10 3 years, 8 months ago

I'd say that by Missouri being one of the teams refusing to wave their right to sue, that means WVU is going to be the 14th school to the SEC.

texashawk10 3 years, 8 months ago

I really want to see the pictures Dan Beebe has of DeLoss Dodds making love to Bevo because that has to be the only way Beebe is still the commissioner of the Big 12.

actorman 3 years, 8 months ago

You have to be right, texas, because I don't think I've ever seen a more incompetent leader of ANYTHING than Boobie. Absolutely ridiculous.

Ben Kliewer 3 years, 8 months ago

4:46 update: "A violation of trust" regarding Beebe...what the F else is new? This guy is a joker and all 9 remaining B12 schools would best be advised to get out and put as much space between themselves and Dan Beebe as possible. Except Texas. Texas is Dan Beebe's abusive husband.

ejlumus 3 years, 8 months ago

I will say again .... if we have to go BE or a lesser situation..... there should be no hesitation on the part of the BOR to sue for actual damages of $100M plus (KU share of contract, KSU, ISU, Baylor same. Loss of tv contract, additional travel costs, etc, etc.

PAC12 commissioner is a dick and has started it all. he should be named personally in the suit. Beebe has as much influence on schools as we do. It's all driven by greed and they should pay if they leave.

I live in Seattle and the fans do not want anything to do with OU, OSU and UT in football. They are very concerned they will get their a$$ handed to them. In BB KU and UT would dominate the conference.

Off the field who would want anyone from this dysfunctional family.

MDHawk 3 years, 8 months ago

Thank you...I needed an excuse to get off this message board. I just couldn't stop reading.

jgkojak 3 years, 8 months ago

Yes, KU should not waive rights. Also, at a certain point, if we have 6 B12 members (and A&M doesn't count), can't some action be taken by those 6 within the B12 to expell the offending institutions and replace them?

Seems to me like Louisville, Cincinatti and TCU are gonna want off the sinking ship that is the Big East.

ejlumus 3 years, 8 months ago

I hate lawsuits, but a class action on the part of all fans may bring these idiots to their senses.

MDHawk 3 years, 8 months ago

I'm not sure how this is all going to shake out, but I'm pretty sure I have about zero percent conference pride right now. The Big XII's reputation is thrashed, and I struggle to imagine a cordial relationship between member institutions even if we stick together.

Why not sue aTm? Seems to be in vogue these days, anyway. They signed a legally binding contract to participate in this league, and then back out not suspecting any consequences? I believe most folks learn that lesson in elementary school...if you make a promise and you don't keep it, there are probably going to be some repercussions. I don't care if you're mad at big brother UT, you're stepping on everyone's toes with this move. I'm no businessman, but I suspect a similar paradigm exists when reneging on a contract, especially when doing so threatens the very organization that offered the contract. We could sue OU while were at it, should they choose to leave.

This whole situation is becoming rather toxic...

rob4lb 3 years, 8 months ago

This is athletics. Contracts are meaningless. Bill Self is signed through 2018. If he said he wanted to coach somewhere else, he would be let out of his contract. I think any contract the schools signed included exit fees if they leave. Can we retroactively sue NU and CU?

MDHawk 3 years, 8 months ago

I generally agree...seems like the idea of a contract as a binding document fell by the wayside long ago. While a whole school backing out might perhaps have more impact than just a coach or a player, the premise is the same.

I'm not really interested in suing anyone, but if that's what it's going to devolve into, I suppose we might as well shoot for the stars.

texashawk10 3 years, 8 months ago

There's also the issue of financial compensation that happens when a coach is either fired or leaves before his contract is up. A&M is quitting before their "contract" is up and should have pay compensation to the other institutions for the money they lose.

Hank Cross 3 years, 8 months ago

DeLoss Dodds for President of the United States. I'm not joking. We need someone this crafty and ruthless looking out for our interests. He no doubt authored that deliberately misleading e-mail of Sept 2 to set up the SEC and A&M for a potential fall. He wanted the process to go forward b/c he could use the potential of a B12 implosion to try to get into the P12 with the LHN. He even had Mack Brown ramble on about suffering 5 losses in a 16 team conference.

When that plan fell through, UT needed to keep the B12 intact for now. It helped that there were grumblings from some of the P12 about admitting the OK schools. Then he sprung the trap and got the 6 to hold A&M hostage in order to quash OU's dreams of going to the P12.

OU won't capitulate immediately, but it will.

Hank Cross 3 years, 8 months ago

And LOL at getting MU to be one of the hostage takers! The B10 doesn't want them for reasons well documented last year. Now they've gone and threatened legal action against the Premier FB conference - who actually had an interest in them. Talk about Scarlet throwing over Rhett for Ashley Wilkes.

lfigment99 3 years, 8 months ago

Have to laugh at Loftin's "really a violation of trust" comment. Is that a pot calling the kettle black or not? A&M was on board with a 10 year contract last year and 9 other schools trusted them. All of a sudden they wanted to break the trust and that is O.K.?

MDHawk 3 years, 8 months ago

+1000

No freakin' kidding...what a hypocrite. I thought the exact same thing when I read that.

Krohnutz 3 years, 8 months ago

Yeah we should keep our legal rights to sue.

That way, we can keep being a stoolie of UT.

And those 100's of millions we would get from suing? Uhhh, because the legal precedent in cases past have rewarded that much?

http://tamu.247sports.com/Board/20/Boston-Colleges-Legal-Journey-in-Getting-to-the-ACC-4110451/1

That guy has the story correct, even if he is an Aggie.

This is a waste of time and effort, better to spend that time trying to get into a real conference that does not include UT.

BigAl 3 years, 8 months ago

Beebe needs to be replaced right now. We need someone acting on behalf of the conference and not in Texas hip pocket. This is beyond crazy.

bookemdano 3 years, 8 months ago

Well supposedly it's now been resolved, with a "gentlemans agreement" for the remaining Big XII members to not sue so long as SEC agrees not to poach any more Big XII members.

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/p/28202894/Report-Deal-reached-AandM-to-SEC.aspx

Yeah, I'm scratching my head on that one too.

Krohnutz 3 years, 8 months ago

I gotta love how ESPN is burying this though. On Around the Horn and PTI there has been barely a mention of this conference.

I both love and hate ESPN.

Ben Kliewer 3 years, 8 months ago

I can understand the point of view of the other schools. Perhaps they weren't threatening to sue as much as making the point that Beebe no longer speaks for the institutions of the B12, just the board. Nice move B12 teams. Now let the Okies go to the PAC and we'll head our fancy pants to the BEast, merge with the ACC, and become the first Super Conference... Super Conference Wishful Thinking Understand that I, as a native Kansan and current Angelino would LOVE Kansas in the PAC, but it just doesn't sound like that's going to work. We'll see though. Next best option is the BEast.

Krohnutz 3 years, 8 months ago

OU probably got ESPN to give them their network. Good for OU...

Hey maybe next year somebody else can hold the conference for ransom for a better deal?

And I noted on that UT website that the forum posters were all excited about, "Beebe's exit," which confuses me... Thunder Dan is THERE guy, so why are they happy the stooge is done?

And seriously, every season while Bill Self is competing for recruits we are going to have to go through this garbage.

I'm so pissed about this whole thing.

Also, what does a gentleman's agreement really entail? I mean, they can't poach this year? Or this time? Or until midnight on the fifth day of the seventh month when the moon is in said position and the Cubs win the pennant?

This whole thing is one massive joke.

It appears that Dodds and Boren just played everybody for stooges. Again...

Wake me when KU leaves this sham of a conference.

MDHawk 3 years, 8 months ago

+1

I hope those AD's, conference officials, and university presidents who keep commenting on the issue realize that many of us fans don't really trust what they say anymore. A "gentleman's agreement"? Give me a break...not that they would care what we have to say, anyway.

Krohnutz 3 years, 8 months ago

I noted that I spelled it "there" when it should be "their." But the best part is that I put it in all caps. Classic Nutz right there.

rob4lb 3 years, 8 months ago

I am still trying to figure out what good this does in the long run. I know if you are Baylor, this is a matter of survival. But now this conference is a joke and a national soap opera. Who is going to join the Big 12 especially after this episode? I'm sure SMU and Houston would be happy to join but that just further weakens the conference.

If the Big 12 played by the same rules as the other major conferences, it would be thriving now. NU and CU would still be members and a Big 12 network would be formed.

I don't think it makes sense to force someone to stay who doesn't want to be here. I hope that those of you who are applauding the legal maneuvers have not been advocating that KU cut a deal and leave the conference.

Texas could have easily kept this conference together by treating everyone as a partners instead of serfs.. If you don't live here, you cannot possibly comprehend the arrogance of the entire university.

All of this is just prolonging the inevitable which is the eventual break up of the conference.

actorman 3 years, 8 months ago

Try to remember the kind of September When life was slow and oh, so mellow. Try to remember the kind of September When grass was green and grain was yellow. Try to remember the kind of September When you were a tender and callow fellow. Try to remember, and if you remember, Then follow ...

average 3 years, 8 months ago

We, (KU less than KSU and ISU) can't really afford to look like litigious schmucks while we're hunting for a new home. Baylor can. That's because they aren't going to get into any other AQ conference, and know it, but know the Texas bigwigs would work to push all the remaining schools into a Texas-centered conference (Baylor/Houston/Rice/SMU/UTEP/UNT/TxState/UTSA?) Mostly, though, they just don't have as much to lose.

KU, KSU, and ISU fans should be happy if Baylor does it for us, and we just get to clap.

Pbbut 3 years, 8 months ago

I don't see that this would stop Missouri ending up in the SEC.
The SEC said they wouldn't poach, but if the conference breaks up, what's to stop them from sweeping up the bottom of the cage?

Justin Lindsley 3 years, 8 months ago

The Big 12 might have just showed a pulse.The Big 12's fate might end up in the hands of Mizzou!!! That sucks. Who knows what those idiots will do?

texashawk10 3 years, 8 months ago

I actually do believe Missouri's ultimate preference is the Big 12 like just about everybody else's. They have a much better shot at competing in the Big 12 than they would anywhere else and would make comparable money to anywhere else in the Big 12.

droppinplates 3 years, 8 months ago

Some of you should read other media outlet, it would give u an idea of what some of the thought process is. Some believe that OU and Tejas agreed to equal revenue sharing and that there are already teams waiting to join the Big 12, but only as long as there is equal tier 1 and tier 2 sharing. Ou and Tejas would make up the difference with their own networks. WVU will be the 14th team in the SEC. All speculation of course, but if u read it, some of it makes sense.

Sparko 3 years, 8 months ago

Pretty much what I've said all along. A&M agreed to a contract worth millions that would be abrogated by their early departure. Second, huge conferences will incur huge travel bills and will have to split checks up to twenty ways. That is why the Big XII is already more lucrative than super conferences would be. . . .

Ben Kliewer 3 years, 8 months ago

Was just discussing the potential for KU, KSU and MU to the BEast with a colleague of mine and that treat sounds tastier by the minute. For one thing, I keep forgetting that TCU and USF are in the BEast. It opens up the KU and KSU brands into the East Coast recruiting market in a big way, especially for basketball, and also keeps ties in Texas and Florida for football recruiting. Plus, you'd have a National footprint of the conference stretching from Manhattan, KS to Chicago to NYC to Florida. You'd rotate the football champ game between Arrowhead and NJ (Meadowlands?) AND the bball tourney is in Madison Square? Sign me up! Their proposed revenue sharing deal is WAY better than what we get (From what I understand 60% revenue shared equally among all football schools and 40% revenue shared equally among all basketball schools...which includes all the football schools) Plus, we're basically gaining access to put our brand in growing populations, replacing the one's we're losing in the B12. Making the Kansas brands known in NYC, Chicago, etc... BEast is starting to sound like an even better deal than the PAC. PULL THE TRIGGER!

Pitthawk34 3 years, 8 months ago

All sounds good in the short term but when the mega conferences explode the big east will be cherry picked by the ACC and Big 10. It may be the only option at the end of the day buy not without huge risk. We may find ourselves on groundhog day replaying the circus that is the present.

Ben Kliewer 3 years, 8 months ago

I don't know. The ACC cherry picking any conference sounds like a long shot. They're about as well off as the BEast right now. Adding the Kansas brand to the Big East, along with the addition of TCU could give some more strength to the conference as a whole and make them a player within the next couple of seasons. By the tie the next round of realignment rolls around, I think they'd be in a better situation. But it's all speculation at this point. Yours and mine.

droppinplates 3 years, 8 months ago

It's looking more like the Big12 will stay together and bring in a couple of schools. Ou and UT will have their own networks and equal revenue sharing among all members. Possibly already have some schools lined up. The timing of everything would suggest that is a possibility.

average 3 years, 8 months ago

Curious who we'd add. With equal revenues, there's not going to be much feeling for a vote to add a school isn't a net-adder to that revenue pot, not shrink each share by their addition. That's pretty much BYU. AFA or Houston on the outside. Houston, ColSt, etc all just make each share smaller. Actually, if you're considering a new Big 12 Network deal, you might consider a project case of Northern Illinois. They've been nationally ranked out of the MAC. Between NIU and the number of Chicagoans who've sent their kids to KU and MU as safety/party schools, I think the B12Network would be locked into the Chicagoland market along with the Texas markets. Not too shabby.

texashawk10 3 years, 8 months ago

If KU somehow ends up in the Big East, I want the University of Houston to go there as well. Having TCU and Houston in a 12 team Big East guarantees KU of 1 game per year in the state of Texas that would be in a very large media market. Guaranteeing kids from D/FW and Houston would be able to play 2 games in the careers at home in front of friends and family would still be a nice draw for KU. Only scenario that could play out where this is even remotely an option is if OU, OSU, UT, and Tech bolt west allowing the SEC to pick up Missouri because the conference would be dead anyway and the Big East realizes that Houston is a much more attractive option competition and media wise with their new stadium they are building than ISU is. It also gives TCU a regional rival which would be nice for the Horned Frogs.

Jhawkintulsa 3 years, 8 months ago

wishing this could happen / better off without UT ..... UT goes independent, A&M stays and saves face in doing so without UT around ... add BYU, TCU and Air Force .... balanced conference in football, basketball and other sports, solid academics, each school treated equally, great regional rivalries and even plenty of TV sets (since that is what it is all about these days) .... would look like this

North Kansas Kansas State Iowa State Missouri BYU Air Force

South Oklahoma Oklahoma State Texas Tech TCU Baylor Texas A&M

Pitthawk34 3 years, 8 months ago

ENOUGH ALREADY! if either Oklahoma or Texas leaves this conference, the league is dead, dead, dead. I just dont understand some of these ignorant posts. A&M is gone, gone, gone, no way they return. Texas will not stay in this conference without another big time football player as well as Oklahoma. Without thoses schools the TV contract is vacated. No Big Boys in the league equals no league. It is as simple as that. Once shattered the schools will scramble for a resting place and those who cant find one will go to either CUSA or Mountain west. With your suggestions above go ahead and mark of OU, OSU, TAM and dont write in Texas... Now tell me what you have...Yes a non BCS conference each team pulling in around less than 8 million a year in TV money. Athletic budgets will be sliced up like a pumpkin pie on Turkey day.

Jhawkintulsa 3 years, 8 months ago

"mark off OU, OSU, TAMU from the list...now tell me what you have"

well, you would have the equivalent of the Big Ten without Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin and Ohio State ... or the PAC-12 without USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Oregon ... your point?

I get what you are saying about needing Big Boys in the conference (the very reason that I included OU, TAMU, etc.) but my point was really this .... the Big Ten and PAC-12 are more stable because neither conference repeatedly caves in to the demands of one Big Boy kicking the others around

Ben Kliewer 3 years, 8 months ago

Nobody said they were. I'm pretty sure everyone has agreed that UT is the big boy. They agreed on that about 5 years ago.

kureader 3 years, 8 months ago

Matt, I didn't follow your logic regarding Oklahoma's decision to waive their right to sue A&M. I believe you suggested this means Oklahoma wants to let A&M go, so the Big 12 can move forward.

Oklahoma, like A&M, also wants to leave the conference. How can Oklahoma retain its own right to sue A&M, and then expect other schools to give up their rights to sue Oklahoma when Oklahoma leaves the conference? This way, they're consistent. They're saying teams shouldn't sue other teams for leaving the Big 12 ... convenient position, don't you think?

Great job this week, Matt.

droppinplates 3 years, 8 months ago

At the end of the day, OU would rather stay in the Big 12.

kureader 3 years, 8 months ago

droppinplates, that's what I thought until this week. Now, I think the $15mm difference between Oklahoma's TV income that that of Texas (with their own stations) is a tough pill to swallow, not just for A&M, but for Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.

droppinplates 3 years, 8 months ago

As I've said earlier, there is a belief that OU and UT agreed to equal tier 1-2 revenue sharing (tv contract with Fox) which may have been a demand by another university(s) in order to join the Big 12. It's been suggested that OU will have their own network much like LHN which will mean more revenue and make up the difference. OU and UT would prefer a stable Big 12 over any other conference due to rivalries, recruiting, and tv networks. Its possible those two with an addition or two (BYU, Air Force) could anchor a stable Big 12.

Matt Tait 3 years, 8 months ago

Your point is right on. My logic may have been a little fuzzy, but my gut feeling is that OU will stay.

At least that's where I'm at tonight.

Thanks a bunch!

STL_Jayhawk 3 years, 8 months ago

By waiving their rights to sue, OU is keeping a healthy relationship with the SEC. I'm just sayin....

Kristen Downing 3 years, 8 months ago

I am not a fan of Beebe, but I think this "ooops" letter writing was part of the plan to buy time while they work on OU and UT and add more schools. If not, there is nothing I like better than watching Kenneth Starr go after the SEC. I think every conference is watching this as a test case. It will certainly make more conferences pause, if they realize this is what they will have to go through to pilfer another conference. I stand by Baylor and Iowa State and I am proud of the remaining schools of the Big 12(minus OU). I think it says if you back out on your word/contract, we will not be bullied. You will pay.

kureader 3 years, 8 months ago

I doubt Beebe is that clever. The issue here is that the A&M President is acting like a bonehead. A&M has legal council. They've read the Big 12 agreements. Any attorney knows that Beebe can't control or speak to how each and every school will react to A&M's departure. Beebe only speaks for the Big 12 Conference.

This is the second time the A&M President appears to not understand basic law. The first time was when they broadcast their intentions to leave the conference, without understanding the idea that the SEC can't encourage A&M's departure ... tortuous interference is a basic prinicipal of law. Though the SEC was being transparent by saying that they had not pursued A&M, this position got them off the legal hook.

The idea voiced by the A&M President that Beebe's letter was purposefully misleading is stupid. Beebe should be able to assume that, even if the A&M President is a novice, that he still has access to legal council to keep A&M out of trouble. I'm certainly not a Beebe fan, but his letter was fine. There was no need to clarify it.

As for refusing to give up one's right to take legal action, any attorney would tell their school not to give up this right without a really good reason. KU's Chancellor is just following the advice of her council, as are all the other schools.

Gary McCullough 3 years, 8 months ago

If UT wants a stable Big XII, it needs to drop the damands for a bigger share of the pie. All the members need to share equally in the revenues. Otherwise the instability will continue, and we will replay the drama over and over.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. ~ attributed to Albert Einstein.

FLJHK 3 years, 8 months ago

Along with a couple of bucks, all it gets you is a large cup of coffee at McDonalds, but the number and quality of posts on this site certainly shows that Jayhawks are passionate about their school. Great work posters, and a special thanks to Matt for his thorough and informative efforts on this matter.

No matter how this all turns out, I'll continue to believe that the world is divided into two camps: Jayhawks and those who wish they were Jayhawks.

Rock fricking Chalk.

hawksfanatic 3 years, 8 months ago

What a distraction this must be to the players and coaches. How do you keep a team motivated when the league is falling apart around you?

FlintHawk 3 years, 8 months ago

To quote FLJHK, "Rock fricking Chalk."

And how do you recruit?!

(BTW, +100 FLJHK)

dagrump 3 years, 8 months ago

Survived, not hardly, manipulated into sticking together, that I'll believe... Baylor?? then the rest fall in behind the bible thumping baptist bears... Grow some stones, don't lawyer up. This is a cheap stunt being pulled on A&M, no one lawyered up when CU & NU ran for the doors. What a bunch of pansies...

dagrump 3 years, 8 months ago

Claims the man in the ugly orange shirt...

Ben Kliewer 3 years, 8 months ago

Well, that's just inaccurate and ill informed.

Josh Galler 3 years, 8 months ago

If Big 12 stays intact First get to 10 by adding BYU then add two more to make to 12 Like Arizona/ASU or Louisville/memphis or Pitt/WVU or Arkansas/LSU

jhawks1 3 years, 8 months ago

I am hoping for your scenario. I would add Air Force to the list of invites for many reasons. Colorado audience/ great school spirit / games there are a blast to attend / someone we could possibly beat once in awhile.

If we do have to find somewhere new, I think it would be beneficial to drop KSU like a bad habit.

Big East would be a step backwards as it will dissolve if we truely are headed to 4x16 conferences.

Pac 1x would be a lot of late games but probably best chance to be mid-level competitive in football.

Big 1x would be more midwestern in feel but getting pounded in football.

Don't see any other realistic options.

Ben Kliewer 3 years, 8 months ago

I really don't get why everybody just wants to drop KSU as if they have nothing to offer. Do any of you know anything about KSU?

miseryh8r 3 years, 8 months ago

I know BYU is an option for the 10th member if the Big XII stays together. I would rather see 12 teams because, even though we've never made the championship game, it adds more drama to the football season. AND, it would be nice to have 4 non-conference games instead of just 3 as with this years format.

So, my question is this: why couldn't Boise St. step into a spot and possibly Memphis. Both would open new TV markets, even though there's a limited number of TV sets in Idaho. And hasn't Boise proven all the nay-sayers wrong yet? Year after year there is a debate about teams like them and TCU and generally speaking, they prove the doubters wrong. Just by beating Georgia this year, Boise has more wins against SEC teams than Texas A&M does. You could throw Boise and BYU in the north to fill 2 vacancies and Memphis in the south to fill A&M's void. We would also have a chance to slap Memphis around in hoops so the can't keep abusing the Conference USA boys and claim they are elite

Kristen Downing 3 years, 8 months ago

Just to let you KU faithful know....ESPN's Pat Forde in an article titled "Expansion News Funnier Than Fiction" refers to KU(and other Big 12 schools) as "undesirable commodities" and "Big 12 bottom feeders". I gave him my two cents worth, please join me. ESPN may have motives for these kind of one-sided articles.

Hank Cross 3 years, 8 months ago

For what it's worth, this is the first time I've heard of this scenario, which depends on OU/OSU to P12 and UT going elsewhere.

"Without question, Kansas and Kansas State would be given serious consideration — and those schools would know they were receiving serious consideration, thus delaying a possible move to the Big East.

Guessing along with Scott is a risky, risky venture, but I think he thinks the Kansas basketball brand is strong enough to offset the weak football brand … and strong enough to haul KSU along with it."

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2011/09/07/pac-12-expansion-the-case-for-the-oklahoma-schools/

It's interesting b/c it comes from Jon Wilner who's a solid College BB/P12 blogger.

Pitthawk34 3 years, 8 months ago

I would bet the house that KU has spoken with PAC and they are aware through a wink and a nod that KU is not tied to Kansas State. We found out yesterday when the word "Prefer" came out. These schools will not be held back if it is in the schools best interest at the end of the day. No way Kansas State is even considered. Their athletic budget just does not warrant such a move. They dont want another Washington State.

jhawks1 3 years, 8 months ago

The schools should absolutely not sign a letter giving up their rights. They haven't said TAMU can't leave and from my readings, most if not all said they wouldn't sue. But what if down the road something comes up that is being hidden right now but becomes obvious later and is sue worthy? What if TAMU is the first of 5 schools causing the conference to dissolve and these smaller schools have made huge financial commitments to salaries and buildings based off of a Big 12 TV package that suddenly is not there? It is only in TAMU and SEC interest to ask for this letter and this is only needed because they are looking for a better life without us. They should have either got their ducks in a row before they ran full steam ahead or they need to absorb some of the risk of their risky move.

The reason conference schools didn't address this issue with CU/NU is because they weren't asked to do this for CU/NU. The only difference here is the SEC requesting it without evidence of why it is necessary or how it serves any of our interest as well.

Be cautious of someone serving only themselves and asking you to absorb all of their risk while they are at it. If they are acting properly, there is no risk.

dagrump 3 years, 8 months ago

They asked what they needed to do to leave. The conference office told them. They thought they had the ducks all in a pretty row, the the UT lackey at the conference office says, well you have to ask each school... Did bb brain just send this letter (9/2) with no input from the school presidents. Something about this doesn't pass the smell test. They aren't asking you to absorb the risk, they want you to absorb the risk you took for counting your chickens before they hatched. Not their fault if your chicken coop can't take the wind storm...

jhawks1 3 years, 8 months ago

Let's start with what we can probably agree to, Beebee needs to be looking for a new job no matter how all this falls out. Completely incompetent.

From my understanding, a letter from each school isn't needed for TAMU to leave. That is a request from SEC after the initial info was sent out. TAMU was so thrilled to get a letter from "bb brain" that they went running to the next suitor without looking at the letter head and without considering each school has it's own board/regents/legal teams to deal with. SEC was at least savy enough to warn TAMU to look in their rearview mirror and apply brake slowly.

The conference schools did "count their chickens" when they asked all schools to sign on to the remaining "10" and the new TV deal time frame commitment. Their way of weathering the storm (of which TAMU leaving isn't but the Big 12 dissolving is) is to be ready to extract that money from those schools running away from their commitment. I applaud them for playing hard ball which is what the big universities are doing by running to other conferences with dreams of bigger paychecks.

My humble opinion respectfully.

dagrump 3 years, 8 months ago

Mizzou??? really, they're taking their annual bath right now & hoping some one will ask them to dance. They should go to the SEC with A&M, would serve them right. tOSU will be looking for a coach at the end of this season, Pinkie is a Ohio native if the turmoil continues don't you think that job starts looking sweeter? They can't get out of their own way, why do you think Deaton is the head of the expansion commitee, so there is no expansion. It all comes down to eyeballs & TV sets, that is their only advantage.

jgkojak 3 years, 8 months ago

I have kinda thunk that Oklahoma and Texas were in cahoots here.

My first thought was that they both wanted the Pac, and Texas had Oklahoma pull the trigger so it didn't look like the bad guy (or maybe couldn't due to politics).

Now I'm thinking that Oklahoma crafted this flirtation with the Pac to hold Texas up, in private, for a couple things -- some sort of $$ amount they won't challenge from an Oklahoma network and possibly to get us back to 12 teams. I sense that Texas is the one that doesn't want a championship game - because they're the weaker of the two football programs.

So let A&M go, and bring in 3 more -- BYU and... ???

FeaRRaef 3 years, 8 months ago

A player is going to care about this and I'm sure are following it closely. Some hold pro ambitions. Some just want a chance to play on a nationally televised game at the highest level and maybe get on sportscenter. Both would be impacted. They care where they play and if I were in a recruiting battle against a BigXII school I would use this uncertainty to my advantage. I hate to say it but damage has already been done in that regard.

Scott Smetana 3 years, 8 months ago

Most of our desires summed up below? These are not in order of likeliness, just desirability. KU to SEC is impossible and not on list.

  1. Big 10 West (they add KU, MU, and 2 others)
  2. Big 12 remains intact with OU/OSU
  3. Pac whatever if OU/OSU leaves
  4. ACC
  5. Big East if OU/OSU leaves
  6. MWC with KSU
  7. C-USA or something worse.

Correct

matlockhawk 3 years, 8 months ago

If he moves east, he might get to see more Jayhawk games...lol

dinglesmith 3 years, 8 months ago

No way should KU or any other Big 12 school give up their legal rights. ATM and the SEC are certainly not looking out for KU or anyone else. The way I see it, ATM had to be talking to the SEC when they were also committing to the Big 12 during the fiasco earlier this summer. There is no way this deal goes down now without that happening. The stunt the SEC pulled where it said it didn't want ATM, then ATM left the Big 12, and suddenly the SEC is interested is legal shenanigans. If you don't believe they were working a deal under the table, you're very naïve.

When you are dealing with entities that are not obligated to look out for you or cannot be trusted, you DO NOT give up your right to take legal action. Specifically, if KU is hurt financially by ATM's departure and they believe that departure violated agreements, they should sue them. I'm no fan of lawyers, but this is why the legal system exists.

Ben Kliewer 3 years, 8 months ago

I'm pretty confident in saying that anyone who actually believes that Kansas will end up in the PAC is smoking something that was probably expensive. And I don't mean a fine cigar. And if you think Kansas and Kansas State won't end up in the same conference, you've laced that expensive drug with a really really cheap one.

ParisHawk 3 years, 8 months ago

Two thoughts:

1) Dan Beebe needs to go. After his waffling on the litigation issue, how is any other conference going to believe anything he says?

2) Threat of litigation is not so much an attack on A&M as a warning shot across the bow of Oklahoma. A&M leaving doesn't kill the Big 12, OU leaving does.

Richard Heckler 3 years, 8 months ago

Thanks Big Lew for bringing plenty of scandal and lack of integrity to the Big 12.

Kinda put KU in the crappy limelight.

Was any of this talk of splitting up on the table before Lew dropped by to shake up ticket sales, KU,the Williams fund and long time seating arrangements? Can we say corruption?

LogicMan 3 years, 8 months ago

"1) Dan Beebe needs to go. After his waffling on the litigation issue, how is any other conference going to believe anything he says?"

If he made that "and members" statement without permission, and he doesn't resign today, the members needs consider firing him, with cause.

If he had the members' word on it, then he's been humiliated and should resign.

Either way, he needs to be out today as a very public display that we're changing things. And move the headquarters back to KC, or possibly OKC to help sooth OU.

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