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Manic Monday wraps with ACC calling Texas talk premature

10:40 p.m. Update:

Good find from one of our commenters here. It's a great example of just how fragile this whole situation is.

Texas says it's talking to the ACC. ACC says it hasn't done a thing. Both could be lying. Both could be telling the truth. Both could be bending the truth. It's hard to trust much of what's out there right now, no matter who it's coming from.

I'll leave you with this for tonight: Based on the various people I've been talking with throughout the conference and throughout the day, there are anywhere from 5 to 10 potential outcomes here. All of them seem to involve KU in some way or another and all of them could gain serious steam or be dead by the time we wake up tomorrow.

This thing will not be wrapped up all nice and tidy this week. May not even be wrapped up by Oklahoma president David Boren's self-imposed deadline of the end of the month. Too much at stake. Too many factors in play. Too much money on the table, money that stretches to or potentially could stretch to at least three or four different conferences.

As we've seen and said all along, the bus is being driven by the chancellors and presidents here. All eight Big 12 ADs (exclude A&M) are working their butts off and are actively involved, but the power lies with those above them.

Clear enough?

Stay tuned....

3:48 p.m. Update:

Before I get into the fancy writing and carefully crafted update about where we stand in the world of conference realignment, let’s look at the nuts and bolts right away...

No link here but there are reports that have surfaced that say ESPN Radio has sources saying Texas turned down an offer from the Pac-12 and is now involved in preliminary discussions with the ACC.

For Texas, this thing is all about what the best option for The Longhorn Network will be. Much like the pipe dream rumors about Notre Dame joining the Big 12 because it would be allowed to keep its TV deal with NBC, the conference that offers up the best situation for TLN — which could include help from the conference office or regional networks — will probably land the Longhorns.

One recent report said the Sooners and Cowboys are prepared to make the move to the Pac-12, with or without Texas.

If Texas is talking ACC, or even Big 12, and the Sooners and Cowboys agree to go Pac-12, the time could be right for KU and Mizzou to jump in as the third and fourth teams in the deal. There won’t be time to waste, though. If KU and/or Missouri so much as hesitates for a second if an offer is extended, the offer could be pulled off the table.

If you're Kansas, and all of this is true, this whole thing boils down to a couple of simple questions.

  1. Do you jump at the chance at stability in the Pac-12, regardless of what that does to travel, recruiting, etc.?

  2. Do you wait out Texas and hope the Longhorns can once again find a way to save the Big 12?

  3. Do you shun the west coast and head to the Big East where a "western division" would make life easier in terms of travel and you would be able to remain with both of your biggest rivals in K-State and Missouri?

That's a lot to ponder. While you're thinking it over, here's a few links to check out.

National college analyst Greg Swaim writes that the Oklahoma and Oklahoma State could announce their intentions to leave the Big 12 as soon as Tuesday. He also says that KU and K-State have a standing offer to join the Big East should things crank into high gear.

Here’s that New York Post article that says KU, KSU and Mizzou could be Big East bound if the OU, OSU, UT and Texas Tech bolt for the Pac-12.

Here’s a take from Bleacher Report that says the Pac-12 would be wise to take Kansas instead of Texas Tech. Could it happen? You bet. Will it? Whole different question.

Original Post:

It’s Labor Day, and there’s no doubt that it’s been one of the most aptly named days in the eyes of the Big 12 Conference athletic directors and presidents.

Rather than firing up the grill and kicking back, phones have been ringing, call-waiting beeps blaring and text messages fired one afte the other, all in an effort to not only make sense of the conference realignment mess but also to make sure that the school they represent was in as good of shape as possible for when D-Day arrives.

It’s not here yet. But it’s nearing. Quickly. Texas A&M is supposed to officially be announced as the newest member of the SEC in the next couple of days. When that happens, all hell is going to break loose.

Although there’s been very little said about which school might be Lucky No. 14 for the SEC, you can bet Mike Slive and company know exactly who’s interested and you can be sure that he’s got his list — a very short one — with him at all times and the phones ready. When the call comes, you better be prepared to say yes or it’s on to the next one. There’s no time to waste. Especially now that it appears that that the Big Ten, Pac-12, Big East and even the ACC could all be making their play for new members any day now.

Some schools, such as Texas, will have multiple options. A source told me this morning that UT president Bill Powers and AD DeLoss Dodds had been in contact with at least three different conferences in the past three days. The goal for the Longhorns always has been to find a way to keep the Big 12 going strong. But in the event that Oklahoma and Oklahoma State hit the road for more stability, the Longhorns are ready to act. The biggest key for UT will be The Longhorn Network — shocker, isn’t it? Whichever conference offers Texas the best proposal with regard to the network will immediately have a leg up for Texas’ membership.

So what’s all this mean for Kansas? A lot, actually. The Jayhawks have no network, no football dominance, no first-class ticket to paradise here. But they do have options. What’s more, they have plenty of allies. Current and former conference brothers have a vested interest in where the Jayhawks end up. Some are more passionate about KU’s place in all of this than others, but everybody is at least in some way interested in what happens to the Jayhawks.  Texas and Oklahoma have both been strong supporters of KU recently, if for no other reason than to keep their basketball programs associated with one of the nation’s elite hoops schools. Think about it. If UT goes to the Pac-12, Texas football remains as strong as ever but their basketball brotherhood weakens. UCLA may have great history but their recent performances and overall tradition pales in comparison to Kansas.

We could go on and on here about what role KU’s basketball program plays in all of this. We all know that football is the driving force behind the moves but it’s important to remember that elite basketball has a place at the table. It may not be next to the host or even down at that end. But it won’t be at the kids’ table either.

Stay tuned...

;

Comments

LAJayhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

11 of the 12 teams in the Big 10 are in the Midwest. They are not an Eastern conference. Not even close. Can people please stop calling it that?

Joseph Kuebel 3 years, 1 month ago

Growing up in Chicago, I totally agree. Big 1G is not east. Not even close.

Joseph Kuebel 3 years, 1 month ago

Exactly, oh wise one...He said "the east". Undeniably the B1G is not "the east".

Undeniably, it is the Midwest. The Midwest is made up of "the Plain States", and "the Great Lakes States" regions (as well as 1 Pennsylvania school).

Undeniably he never said "east of KU".

Undeniably, you should take your own advice of "learn to read"... East of KU?

Maybe if you choose to nitpick again you will learn to not make the same mistake you are attempting (poorly) to criticize!

If we go east, then you wouldn't be wrong (learn to read)... In the comment: "If the east", that implies the eastern part of the U.S., not east of Kansas. If the east of Kansas? That's not grammatically correct either. Fail. Perhaps an English class may also help.

Sorry for everyone else on here, having to look at this. But, if you are going to make a snotty remark for something you are doing yourself then you should probably get a taste of your own medicine.

bad_dog 3 years, 1 month ago

Keep in mind I believe this individual is the perpetual TOS violator formerly known as KSA 21-3503. You know, a choice of user name that is the Kansas statutory reference to the crime of indecent liberties with a child.

http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_21/Article_35/21-3503.html

He/she/it finds amusement and self-fulfillment in things like criticizing farmers as being illiterate yokels with closets full of camo gear, yammers endlessly about the faux pas of wearing button-down collars with business attire and constantly criticizes KU for anything/everything as well as the LJW for grammatical context; e.g. he/she/it didn't like their choice of the term "passes away" in the article describing Coach Fambrough's recent demise.

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2011/sep/03/report-former-ku-coach-don-fambrough-88-passes-awa/#c1736886

He/she/it's sort of a combination of anal retentiveness meets OCD coupled with a bad attitude...

Nit-picking and snotty is his/her/it's forte.

Like you noted above Cali, I apologize to all for having to read this however, I thought it apropo to remind the readers who they are likely dealing with.

bad_dog 3 years, 1 month ago

Nice try Queen of Denial. I don't blame you though. As ignominious as your former choice of loser name and posting history were, I wouldn't want to be associated with them either

You do however, know damn well what I'm talking about KSA. You made the ultimate Freudian slip with your comment to me about wearing shirts with button-down collars contained in the story I linked to above regarding Coach Fambrough's "passing". You just couldn't resist and let your animosity toward the LJW's choice of headline wording go. You had to make an asinine comment about their choice of words rather than merely offering a salute to a great Jayhawk. True to form narcissism and arrogance, a la KSA 21-3503.

In the entire time I've read sports articles anywhere online, I've never seen anyone but good 'ol KSA even allude to what is/isn't an appropriate style of shirt for the office, much less direct those comments toward me. You have done it before and now you repeat that conduct. Irony? Coincidence? Happenstance? I think not.

You exposed yourself as KSA with that comment as well as your typical whiney negativity and/or denials/deflections contained in virtually every comment you post under your latest nom de plume. Your "style" ain't too tough to spot. Those are classic KSA hallmarks.

Too bad for you. Given your history and style, soon enough it will be "good bye to you". Again.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

"undeniably to the east of KU"

Except that Lincoln is West of Lawrence.

I was reading the intent of the post, and he was equating the Big 10 to the Atlantic Coast Conference. That's like comparing Texas to California, geographically speaking.

Justin LoBurgio 3 years, 1 month ago

I am glad to see it APPEARS as if we are in much better standing this time around. Happy to see not every article painting a doom and gloom picture of us being left out in the cold.

phi4life940 3 years, 1 month ago

Agreed. Last year, every article basically made it sound like we were going to be left out. Seems people are seeing the value in not just our basketball program, but our educational programs as well (i.e., law, medicine, pharmacy, etc).

mjhawkchalk 3 years, 1 month ago

I'll vomit if KU goes to the ACC. I'll be alright is KU goes to the BIG. But I'll be happy if KU ends up in the Pac !2.

Josh Galler 3 years, 1 month ago

why? Are you afraid to not win championships every year by every year? I relish for the challenge. in FB, we would be have the chance to be top 6 FB team. The best are VA Tech (which could be SEC 14th team), Ga Tech, SC, and FSU (which could be SEC 14th team too) and behind UT if that is true. IF we got to Big East, that basketball would be tough too with SYr, GT, UCONN, Louis, Marq, and ND. Football would be be top half too. BIg 10 FB would be no luck to be top of the 2nd half. We would have chance for NW, Ill, Ind, and Minn but that is it. BB, would be tough too, but I think would be like Big 12 now. Pac 12, I rather been for BB wise if we want to win championip year and year

Kevin Crook 3 years, 1 month ago

Love the scenario that gets us away from Mizz and KSU. Time for some new blood.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

For some reason, the evilness in me wants to see KState wind up in a non-BCS conference so I can laugh at them.

But I do not want to be separated from mizzou. That is, IMHO, far and away the best rivalry in all of college sports, perhaps any sport. No other rivalry -- that I'm aware of anyway -- stems from and has history with the such a massive dividing event in our countries history. The historical significance of Kansas and Missouri makes it so much more emotional, and so much more interesting. It isn't just a sports rivalry. It's always been so much more.

I think I may actually love that rivalry just as much as I hate that team. I will be devastated if it came to an end.

aerohawk 3 years, 1 month ago

Well, put. There is no one I would rather hate more Mizzou and I would miss it if I couldn't.

Joseph Kuebel 3 years, 1 month ago

Yep I also want to keep the historic border rival. , and at the samw time have no problems separating from the redheaded step child named KSU (I actually prefer this as it means we are in a secure BCS Conference and will keep the almighty Jayhawk thriving on a naational level).

Joseph Kuebel 3 years, 1 month ago

Ironic, then that our wishes to continue the MU rivalry, security for our longterm future (being an opportunity to go to the PAC16), and the ability to keep our national prominence as a basketball powerhouse 100% completely appears to be coming down to MU accepting the invite to the PAC (given the report above and several other sources saying that Texas declined the potential PAC offer). If those clowns at MU don't accept the PAC offer and screw us/accept an SEC offer... I will suggest we pull our own Quantrill upon Columbia, MO call it "Bleeding Deaton".

Deaton, who's job is to keep the Big 12 together (as Big 12 board chairman) is in a position that is a conflict of interest (as he is chancellor for MU). This situation is difficult from a legal standpoint on his end, and hopefully won't hold us back as a bystander. The best interest for MU isn't the best interest for the Big 12 (but, is the best for KU if they accept the PAC) as it is too late to save this broken ship.

ralphus 3 years, 1 month ago

I love how ESPN is citing "sources", as if they're not the ones brokering all this nonsense behind the scenes anyways.

Nuke Bristol.

LAJayhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

"Nuke Bristol."

Don't say that to Sarah Palin. She'll go all "David Letterman" on your a**.

phi4life940 3 years, 1 month ago

Keep up with the great updates KUSports! We really appreciate the constant attention to all of this!

Dillon Davis 3 years, 1 month ago

Why are we not being mentioned with the Big 10. Proximity wise they make the most sense. They don't have much prominence in basketball besides Michigan State, and even then they don't have near the history that KU does. They have great football programs in Michigan,Ohio State, Nebraska, and Penn State but the rest aren't totally out of KU's league. We can compete with Mich St. and Iowa and Northwestern and Purdue and Indiana and Illinois. What would the Big 10 have against adding us and Missouri? Or maybe even us, MU, KSU, and ISU and then they can compete with the SEC, Big East, and Pac 16 (if that were to happen). That would be 4 Mega Conferences right there and then the ACC would have to adjust but still. Anyone disagree?

phi4life940 3 years, 1 month ago

I like a move to the Big 10. I would like to keep a midwest feel to our conference. A move to the Big East or Pac ?? makes us travel so much which really hurts players academically and fans. Also, a move to the Pac ?? or Big East means we will have either really early games some days or really late games.

Basketball match ups would be good in the Big 10. I could see developing foes in football as well (Iowa, Illinois, etc). Plus, we would get our 100+ year match-up with Nebraska back.

I wonder if Vegas has odds going for which conference all of us will end up in. haha

kerbyd 3 years, 1 month ago

Vegas has odds on Everything so I am sure they are betting on this.

Steve Gantz 3 years, 1 month ago

Wisconsin is in the mix in basketball and football. Been consistently very good in both sports lately.

jhawkrulz 3 years, 1 month ago

Indiana has a pretty good history in basketball. Right now playing through some probation. Also, I'm pretty sure that Ohio State was ranked #1 for most of last year. Probably one of the favorites next year as well.

ISU and KSU have no shot in the Big 10. KU and MU would be good, but I think they would be more interested in picking off teams out of the Big East, specifically, Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, West Virginia.

I personally don't know the education requirements for some of the universities, but both the Big Ten and PAC 12 will require high level academics.

Personally, I think that KU will be in the PAC 16. Second option the Big Ten, and if they have to, the Big East.

The good news is UT turned down the PAC 16, that means that TTU won't even be offered.

I could see the PAC 12 goes to 14 with just KU and OU (personally, I don't think OSU is worth TV dollars).

Gary McCullough 3 years, 1 month ago

There are 57 institutions that are members of the Association of American Universities. This organization represents THE BEST large institutions of higher education in the United States. KU joined in 1906. Five members of the original Big XII are members. Besides KU: Mizzou (1908), Texas (1929), Iowa State (1958), CU (1966), and aTm (2001). The PAC 12 has 7 members (8 now with CU): Stanford (1900), Arizona (1985), Cal (1900), UCLA (1974), Oregon (1969), USC (1969), and Washington (1950). The Big 10 claims 9 members: Indiana (1909), MSU (1964), Northwestern (1917), Ohio St (1916), Penn St. (1958), Purdue (1958), Illinois (1908), Michigan (1900), and Wisconsin (1900). Adding NU didn't improve the academic standing of the Big 10. Grabbing KU and MU would be a boost for the academic stature of the conference. I daresay it would put the conference shoulder to shoulder with the Ivy league in this comparison.

Can you see why the Pac-XX went hunting for CU? They wanted a school that would enhance the academic standard as much as fit into a west coast ethos. The Big 10 is a better fit for KU from an academic view.

patrick_raftery 3 years, 1 month ago

NU was an AAU school till last year when they got the AAU tag revoked ... AAU is a big deal for the Big 10.

Gary McCullough 3 years, 1 month ago

I like the idea of moving to the Big 10 as well. Another reason, besides those mentioned, is the league network. I get the Big 10 channel on DISH network for free. As compared to paying for ESPN's suite of pay-per-views or the LHN. The question is: Is the Big 10 interested in us?

patrick_raftery 3 years, 1 month ago

Bill Self and Turner Gill have ties to the B10 and likely friends in high places. That said, this is a football move (hoops need not apply) ... BUT ... the B10 likes to brag and having a Top 3 All Time hoops school is most def something to brag about.

ModerateOne 3 years, 1 month ago

"Why are we not being mentioned with the Big 10?"

Because conference relignment has almost nothing to do with athletic competition. We are not being mentioned with the Big 10 for at least the following reasons:

  1. Minneapolis is a bigger TV market than KC.
  2. Chicago is a bigger TV market than KC
  3. Philly is a bigger TV market than KC
  4. Detroit is a bigger TV market than KC
  5. Cleveland, Cincinnati and Columbus make a bigger TV market than KC
  6. Indianapolis is at least as big of a TV market as KC
  7. Milwaukee/Madison is at least as big of a TV market as KC
  8. No one in these television markets wants to see the middle or upper echelons of the Big-10 conference crush a weak KU football squad every year.
  9. Basketball doesn't make big money until March Madness when conference seasons are over.
  10. KU's academics are not as good as Northwestern's.

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 1 month ago

  1. It is not entirely about TV markets but about geographic footprint.
  2. Even this year KU would beat half of the Big10 squads.
  3. KU's Academics are better than you are letting on.
  4. Be nice, your Misery Tiggers may go too.

Fruity22 3 years, 1 month ago

I love KU and pretty much hate everybody else but "UCLA's overall tradition pales in comparison to KU"? That is quite a statement.

Matt Tait 3 years, 1 month ago

We're not talking wins and titles here. I'm talking ground-floor tradition. Names like Naismith, Rupp, Phog Allen, Dean Smith, etc.

UCLA's a heck of a program and has a ton of tradition, but I don't think Pauley Pavilion is quite the cathedral that Allen Fieldhouse is nor do I think the Bruins — outside of Wooden — have the names to stack up.

That's beside the point, though...

Robert Brock 3 years, 1 month ago

UCLA's tradition can be explained in two words: Sam Gilbert.

Donojhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

UCLA has a pedigree alright. They also have the PAC 12 tradition of failing to sell out their games, going begging for attendance, averaging 7500 people at games and getting completely ignored inside their market. The type of problems that have never been seen in Lawrence and probably never will.

Hammertoe 3 years, 1 month ago

Matt, you have been drinking the jayhawk kool-aid. KU would have to win National Championships for the next 8 years to equal UCLA. That's not tradition?

Hank Cross 3 years, 1 month ago

Respectfully Matt, They only hang one type of banner in Pauley - and there's 11 of them. Granted it doesn't have near the energy of AFH, but the greatest coach in the history of college BB coached there and IMHO the greatest BB player of all time - Kareem - played there.

Matt Tait 3 years, 1 month ago

Fair enough... Definitely not gonna argue with that.

nuleafjhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

BS - don't back down Matt, you were right the first time. Kansas IS basketball. Just because, for one brief moment in time Wooden had a monopoly it doesn't mean that they have the tradition that we do. Besides the names that you mentioned earlier, consider this:

Kansas has more wins over the last 5 years than UCLA (185 vs 159)

Kansas has more NCAA Tournament appearances over the last 10 years than UCLA (10 vs 7)

Kansas has more Sweet 16 appearances over the last 10 years than UCLA (7 vs 5)

Kansas has more NCAA Championships over the last 10 years than UCLA (1 vs 0)

Kansas has more NCAA Tournament wins over the last 10 years than UCLA (26 vs 18)

Kansas has a much better overall winning percentage over the last 10 years (0.840 to 0.662)

AP voters think Kansas is better with more weeks in the AP Top 25 over the past 10 years than UCLA (193 vs 103)

Kansas has defeated UCLA the last 2 times they've played.

Kansas has been the favorite 8 out of the 8 times (i.e. everyone expects KU to win)

Kansas has an average margin of victory of 9 over UCLA in 6 wins since 1989

Stats provided by statsheet.com

Fruity22 3 years, 1 month ago

I'll trade those last 2 wins against them for a win in 2007 with a final 4 berth on the line.

Pitthawk34 3 years, 1 month ago

The AD had better have his cell phone charged at all times. The first offer we get for stability I thing we need to take it and the board of Regents had better be given notice that no one had better be on vacation here in the next 2 weeks because this is all going down sooner rather than later.

jhawkrulz 3 years, 1 month ago

You mean Chancellor...BLG is the one in charge.

Pitthawk34 3 years, 1 month ago

I sure hope BLG and the AD are both discussing our options with our coaches in both basketball and football for their recommendation.

gardenjay 3 years, 1 month ago

BLG and AD: I will also vomit if we join the ACC

rob4lb 3 years, 1 month ago

Wow- Everytime I leave there is some new twist. UT to the ACC would certainly stabilize that conference. The Pac 12 would essentially be shut out of Texas. Tech gives them some exposure. There are a ton of Tech fans in Houston and Dallas.

If the Pac 12 wants to add MU and KU along with the Oklahoma schools, I'd take it. I know there will be some late games, but the 'Eastern Division' will have teams in either the Mountain or Central time zones. That should not be that big of a deal. If you play half the schools on the road during basketball season, that is only four games and some of the games will be on weekends.

In addition, this version of the Pac 12 keeps 5 of the original Big 8 members in the same conference. I think there is some value to that as well.

I have always said that the three preferred conferences are the SEC, BIg 10 and Pac 12. It sounds as if the Big 10 is not going to be overly aggressive so I think it is critical to jump to stability if offered a chance to go to the Pac 12.

Clarence Haynes 3 years, 1 month ago

I would love the Big East because I live in the eastern US. Nonetheless, I say ring up the Big 10.

Steve Gantz 3 years, 1 month ago

Anywhere east is better than west. Of course that pales to keeping the Big 12 intact, although it doesn't look like it's happening now. And just for pure speculation, what about KU to the ACC? Now that would spice up basketball in a big way!

Ben Kane 3 years, 1 month ago

the big east is all about basketball, so what i don't understand is why there is no talk about taking some of their good football teams (pitt and wvu come to mind) and bringing them to the big12 (or whatever we are these days).

Pitthawk34 3 years, 1 month ago

This conferece is done! We can use all the Band-aids in the world but we will go through this every year. It is time for a fork to b placed in the conference and finally say were done. No one in their right mind would want to come to this bipolar conference and I cant blame them. The reason were are here today is because no one of substance wants to be here. I want a conference where we can finally let our little brother Kansas State go and not have to deal with their inbred fanbase anymore.

jgkojak 3 years, 1 month ago

Matt - Thanks for the fantastic and timely column. Do you get an extra day off?

The BIg10 with MU is still KUs preferred target. Note there are only three teams east that are AAU members and completely unspoken-for: Rutgers (a shoe-in for B10 expansion), Notre Dame (will they continue to say NO?) and Pitt (Penn St does NOT want Pitt for a number of reasons). If only 2 of those 3 enter the B10, the only 2 reasonable schools left to target are KS and MO.

Let me say this clearly: IF KANSAS DOES NOT RECEIVE A RESPONSE FROM THE B10 (LEGALLY THE TERM WOULD BE 'CONSIDERATION') ZENGHER AND BGLITTLE (I like both of them) ARE NOT DOING THEIR JOBS. THEIR VISION FOR KU SHOULD BE THAT IT BELONGS WITH THOSE OTHER AAU SCHOOLS IN THE B10 - AND ITS NOT OK TO JUST 'GET BY' IN THE BIG EAST.

Its clear that what happened a couple weeks ago with the B-East/B12/ACC summit was the B-East and ACC promising not to raid each other, and the B-East offering memberships to left-over B12 schools (ISU, KSU, MU, KS and Baylor).

So KU WILL have a BCS home that plays quality basketball. I think we all would hope it doesn't revolve around Madison Square Garden.

(By the way - MU goes to the SEC if this happens)

Big East - Midwest Division football only Kansas KSU ISU Baylor TCU Louisville Cinci Marquette DePaul Notre Dame (we're assuming ND remains indy in football)

Big East - Atlantic Division (or whatever you wanna call it) Pitt - probably to B10 WVU Syracuse UConn Cincinatti S Fla Rutgers - probably to B10 Villanova Georgetown Providence St Johns Seton Hall*

Gary McCullough 3 years, 1 month ago

Notre Dame is not a member institution of the Association of American Universities.

Matt Tait 3 years, 1 month ago

Thanks jgkojak... No days off for me, though. At least not while all this AND football season are cranking. Glad you're finding the updates informative.

Kevin Randell 3 years, 1 month ago

Good article.....and THAT is why we haven't heard anything from the Big 10. They are not interested. So guys......it looks like we are going to head to the West Coast or East Coast. Hey, don't feel bad...we have a large Alumni group in Tampa! :)

Nick Cole 3 years, 1 month ago

I live in Tampa and we always have a pretty good turnout for games. In fact, about 15 of us are going together up to Atlanta to watch our Jayhawks take on GTech in a couple weeks. Hopefully all this conference nonsense will be over with by then.

Steve Hillyer 3 years, 1 month ago

Orangebloods is reporting tonight that "MU has received feelers from the Big 10" so I don't believe that article at all... and that is quite a slam the writer gives KU and MU.."quality over quantity means KU and MU need to look elsewhere" yea the Neb school is quite the academic powerhouse and it hasn't even been that great in FB the last decade.

MinnesotaHawkeye 3 years, 1 month ago

Of course that's what we (the Big Ten) are saying. But you have to realize that if there is a rush to the 16 team super conferences the Big Ten doesn't want to be the last ones to expand. I'm sure that there are plenty of calls out to figure out who teams 13-16 will be. I would guess that some east coast teams will be looked at (Rutgers, Maryland, Syracuse, possibly Pitt, but Joe Pa would probably nix that and it adds nothing to geography/tv markets). There is also the possibility of ND, but that leaves one or two openings depending on how many of those are determined to be legit opportunities. As a Hawkeye fan I would love to see Missouri, Kansas, Notre Dame, and one of the Eastern schools, Maryland, Rutgers, Syracuse in order. Also it helps greatly that Kansas and Missouri are AAU schools. After getting burned by Nebraska (not that I didn't love adding them) losing their AAU status I think that will be very important going forward. About the only thing that rivals football money is research grants.

Matt Tait 3 years, 1 month ago

Thanks a lot, njj... My head's spinning, but I think we're caught up for tonight. More fun tomorrow. Oh, and the beginning of looking ahead to Northern Illinois. :-)

jgkojak 3 years, 1 month ago

Isn't an east divsion of the Pac 20 just the Big12 with Utah?

142466 3 years, 1 month ago

Yep. It's a collegiate sports version of the merger of the ABA into the NBA and the WHA (is that what they called it?) into the NHL.

Hope we're included.

Krohnutz 3 years, 1 month ago

Trying to land Texas is a BRILLIANT move by the ACC. As things are shaping up they will be fighting the Big East for that last "big conference" moniker. This would be the killing blow.

If UT lands in the ACC, KU either needs to try to be in there with Missou, the Pac-12, the Big 10, or prepare to build up their program in the Big East when the other conferences go to 16.

Big East ain't a bad place for awhile, it would be entirely plausible to rebuild football there while playing top notch basketball, but if UT is in the ACC you can bet that conference won't be the one dying.

Times up lets do this, LEEEEEEEEROY JEEEEEENKINS!!!

ahpersecoachingexperience 3 years, 1 month ago

can you guys "shut it" with the pac 10 start times. if we went there we would be in a division with 4 of the teams from the big 8 (ot tx) and and 3 other teams that are in MST during the winter months. gawd, why am i the only one on this site with a brain!!!!

Krohnutz 3 years, 1 month ago

Yeah, gotta give you this one. I'm not at all worried about the start times there, and haven't been.

We already play 1/4 of the Pac-12 teams every year anyway. With the Pac10/Big12 Challenge, plus the occasional out-of-conference scheduled team.

And not like playing at Colorado is a "new venue," so to me it is not even an issue. We will be on Big Monday in the same time slot regardless. ESPN is not against jockeying start times around an hour here or there to accomadate their biggest audience.

ahpersecoachingexperience 3 years, 1 month ago

Same goes for travel distances. Not that bad. And yes the PAC could easily move start times up to accommodate big games.

jhawkrulz 3 years, 1 month ago

I could actually live with a 20-30 min delay in start time, so we don't miss the first 10 mins of the game.

Krohnutz 3 years, 1 month ago

Since I read the bit about the ACC making the power move on Texas, I have been thinking...

I really, really, REALLY hope the ACC just completely gives in so UT heads that way.

Why? Because it takes one of the biggest players off the board, and takes their little "hey don't forget about me" brothers off the table too.

It really opens up KU's options to the fullest.

The crap part of this is that DeLoss Dodds might be just using this to get some amount of leverage against Larry Scott. Not that DeLoss Dodds is aggressive and not always up front...

Krohnutz 3 years, 1 month ago

Matt;

What is the feeling coming from the ACC about Mizzou and Kansas?

I know Roy would scream his fool head off, and Duke might fear having us in their conference, but what does it sound like from the rest of the schools?

Matt Tait 3 years, 1 month ago

Working on that. They're kind of a new arrival to the dance here. All of the energy thus far has been spent on KU to Big East, KU to Pac-12 and Big 12 surviving...

ACC's gonna have to move fast no matter what it does but getting Texas on board would be a great start.

Not sure what would happen if KU all of a sudden had options east, west and south. Could turn into a pretty good position to be in, as long as it became a bargaining war and all of the offers didn't drop on them at once.

Stay tuned....

Krohnutz 3 years, 1 month ago

Man, I have not been sleeping for jack this weekend with my mind operating on all these potentials. I need to figure out a career plan to get involved in this stuff so I could at least get paid for this.

To me, the ACC would have to start making moves, because surely they realize the last 16 team power confernce would be between them, the Big East, or a surviving Big 12.

Pulling Texas right now would essentially ensure the eventual death of both other potentials.

We'll see.

DevilHawk 3 years, 1 month ago

I was thinking about that too. However, I don't think that it's going to turn out that way, because of our current staff.

It would make recruiting Texas more difficult, because you couldn't guarantee playing in the state at least twice per season and an opportunity to get revenge against UT. But we do have some recruiters that have a very good reputation in Texas, and that could be a major advantage for us - especially if we end up in the Pac. Most of the Pac schools get their players from the west coast and California; whereas, we would have access to Texas while developing competing connections in California.

Hank Cross 3 years, 1 month ago

  1. Where is KU FB now?

  2. Let's talk BB. Arguably the most talented KU team ever had: Paul Pierce (Inglewood, CA), Jaques Vaughn (Pasadena, CA), Scott Pollard (San Diego, CA) and Jerrod Haas (Lake Tahoe, CA).

Krohnutz 3 years, 1 month ago

I know man, can you imagine Bill Self in that goldmine?

He already has Chicago, parts of Texas, and throw in Cali?

To quote Ike, "I pooped mah pantz!"

83jayhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

You guys are missing the whole play for Kansas. Texas and Kansas to the ACC would make a ton of sense.

Roy Williams. Bernadetter Gray Little has some serious ties to North Carolina and the ACC as well.

ESPN and the ACC respect Kansas. ESPN is likely losing all of its programming to the the Big 12. They don't want to lose Kansas basketball as well.

It won't suprise me if four Big 12 teams end up going to the ACC. It sure woudn't suprise me if UT and KU went as a package deal.

OU and UT don't have to be in the same conference. They will always play the rivarly game no matter.

Would you rather be in the PAC 12 or the ACC with Texas? From a basketball perspective I would rather be in the ACC and from a football perspective I would rather be in the ACC with Texas. Texas footballl recruiting would still be alive and well.

No brainer for KU "IF" they get asked by the ACC, you jump all over it.

jhawkrulz 3 years, 1 month ago

Agree

Agree twice.

I think this becomes our best option now.

Benjamin Piehler 3 years, 1 month ago

As long as our plausible scenarios are Pac 12, ACC, Big East and the long shot, the B1G.... I'm probably OK with wherever they land. It'd be great to stick with Missouri.

I like all of these scenarios with the exception of joining the Big East if it has been picked apart by other conferences.

ahpersecoachingexperience 3 years, 1 month ago

Roy and coach K cried like babies when the acc tried to add 'cuse and somebody eles (maybe uconn) a few years ago. No way do they go for ku.

jay381 3 years, 1 month ago

Matt: Thanks for the work on Labor Day. For many of us it was a treat to see the updates. Your work is appreciated.

I still like the Pac xx. I would especially like it if it would include OU, OSU, CU and KU in a western division. That would be half of the old Big 8 for travel purposes. I would then think AZ and AZ State would be the next two in the division. That would be 6 of the 8. Obviously the last 2 would be further and the games with the other division would be on the West Coast, however no further than the East Coast. Personally I think Tempe and Tucson are real good destinations to watch a BB game in Jan and Feb. If Gill can get the FB program back to where it was just 3 years ago we can be competitive with a lot of the teams in the Pac xx. I would think Bill Self would love the potential of recruiting on the west coast where the results recently have been marginal. Bill Self and the BB program certainly have demonstrated they can recruit any place on the east coast successfully with or without a conference connection. Early in this process I posted I would try to find a seat on that OU plane to the West Coast. Absolutely nothing has changed my opinion.

My experience living in OK for years is when David Boren makes a statement a decision will be made in a few days or no later than the end of the month, this man means exactly what he says. Do not doubt it. I think he felt he had done everything he could to salvage the conference. He is NOT a typical University President. Matt is totally correct this will move quickly. I would advise those that “dither” will be left behind in a heartbeat. .

Matt Tait 3 years, 1 month ago

Glad you enjoyed it, jay381... if that's the word for it.

Quick clarification: I believe it will move quickly once it starts to move.... as I put in my 10:40 p.m. Update, that first push could still be a little ways down the road.

Thanks again!!!

mustlehustle 3 years, 1 month ago

"If" Texas goes to the PAC 12...its taking Texas Tech...."If' Oklahoma goes, they're taking Oklahoma State. Larry Scott in the PAC 12, likes the "regional groupings" 2 school from each state...the issue remains the Longhorn Network....and Texas may be looking to do a Notre Dame....play all non football sports in the PAC 12 and take their football team independent. Notre Dame likes that arrangement with the Big East and Swarbrick at Notre Dame and Dodds at UT are very close friends.

Carter Patterson 3 years, 1 month ago

I don't think that there is a BCS conference out there that wants Texas AND the Longhorn Network as is. Everybody has seen how Texas' arrogance has destroyed the league and nobody wants any part of it. Why would OU state that they wanted to leave? Texas and their Network.

LVCHawk 3 years, 1 month ago

Roy would have the chance to be the hero for his first love UNC in 03, and his 2nd love, KU in 11, if he can push for KU to be in the ACC. He would be welcomed back to KU with a keg of Coke, and all the butthurt feelings would be gone. It would be beautiful, and Dean would be proud.

hawk4evr 3 years, 1 month ago

There is no way Roy wants KU or HCBS in the ACC. Do you really think he would believe he could still come into the midwest and recruit players like Harrison Barnes to NC when he could play in the ACC and only be a few hours drive from home? I know he doesn't get alot of players out of our back yard but as we all know, Roy has a very selective recruiting territory.

Steve Gantz 3 years, 1 month ago

How many players like Barnes come out of Iowa that Roy recruits to UNC? Just sayin

tychi_jayhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

Great reporting Matt. Any chance of a KU MU package to BIG10? Both schools bring big market shares and have AAU membership,

Steve Gantz 3 years, 1 month ago

I know it's hard to read all of this, but see my link to that question above. Big 10 is acting very content with where they're at right now.

Matt Tait 3 years, 1 month ago

Thanks tychi_jayhawk...

There are a lot of reasons to think KU landing in the Big Ten won't happen but I wouldn't count it out just yet.... you never know what could happen/change, perhaps several times, to make that more viable for both sides.

83jayhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

Roy doesn't run the ACC believe or not.

This is about conference survival and big TV money.

ESPN wants Kansas basketball. They don't want to lose Kansas basketball to the PAC 16.

The ACC wants to be one of the survivors. That could mean going to 16. I highly doubt that Texas wants to go the ACC without at least one other Big 12 school. That one school could be MU but it could also be KU.

Hammertoe 3 years, 1 month ago

Texas would go independent before going to a basketball conference like the ACC. They have the revenue to do whatever they want like killing a great conference like the Big 12.

DevilHawk 3 years, 1 month ago

I sure wouldn't mind seeing KU to the PAC and the PAC getting out of its current contract with FSN in favor of ESPN...which would also pay more to KU.

bville_hawk 3 years, 1 month ago

I think Texas is fishing around to other conferences to try and find one that will: 1) give them more than just an equal share of revenues, and 2) do whatever they want with their Longhorn Network. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't remain as the Godfather of whatever remains of the Big 12 and bring in schools that will let them have their way. I'm talking schools like SMU, Houston, Texas State, Arkansas State, etc. Almost be a new SWC! UT is just an uptown whore that is breaking up a lot of longtime, stable relationships...

Pitthawk34 3 years, 1 month ago

It's time for KU to start getting bids from Boeing. They can paint it to look like a jayhawk. What would be more scary than seeing a jayhawk screeming down the runway. We can even paint the tires yellow to look like little boots..

Kevin Randell 3 years, 1 month ago

I think that is one of the most awesome ideas I have ever heard! :) Hey, I hear American is grounding all of their MD-80's because they are going with a newer plane. May be we can get one for whole sale? :)

rob4lb 3 years, 1 month ago

So far I have not been able to find any article regarding UT taking to the ACC. In some ways it makes sense as the ACC has a higher academic profile than the SEC and that has always been important to UT. I'm not enamored with the ACC option for KU.

-Geography- It's Atlantic Coast Conference and members are from Boston to Miami. -Cultural Fit- We're Midwestern. Any one else joining us? -Basketball- Here me out on this one. We will not be the top dog in basketball. It's Carolina and Duke. We will be a close second. The premiere game in the conference will always be Carolina and Duke. Even if we win three straight national championships, Dick Vitale will continue to slobber over Carolina and Duke. We are used to be the showcase of the conference in basketball and that would continue in probably any other conference except the ACC because we are neither Carolina or Duke. -Loss of long term rivals.- I like the Pac 16 scenario that has the OK schools, Colorado, KU and MU as part of the conference. 5 of the original Big 8. We will continue to play K-State regardless of what happens. That seems to be the best option given that the Big 10 does not seem interested.

ChiJayhawk4 3 years, 1 month ago

Matt,

Here is a link I found on Orangebloods.com that discusses the possibility of Texas joining the ACC.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1261031

Enjoy--this whole thing is like a soap opera for men. . .

rob4lb 3 years, 1 month ago

I just saw that. It doesn' look like we are even mentioned as an ACC candidate which is fine with me. Big 10 talking to MU but not KU.

Here are the key paragraphs:

"But the ACC would only come into play if Oklahoma left for the Pac-12 and the Big 12 busted up, sources said.

One source close to the situation said the ACC, which is trying to fend off a potential raid by the Southeastern Conference (Virginia Tech continues to be mentioned by sources as an SEC target), would possibly look to add Texas, Syracuse, Connecticut and Rutgers to grow to 16.

Sources say Missouri has received feelers from the Big Ten, SEC, Pac-12 and Big East. Kansas has also received feelers from the Pac-12 and Big East, sources said. Kansas State has also received feelers from the Big East, sources said."

Matt Tait 3 years, 1 month ago

"soap opera for men" cracked me up...

I'm sure some women are paying attention, too, but I think you nailed the vibe!!!

Jack Wilson 3 years, 1 month ago

Matt ... great work, here. You do an excellent job. Not just on this, but everything else.

Matt Tait 3 years, 1 month ago

Appreciate it!!! Trying to stay on top of it all...

rob4lb 3 years, 1 month ago

Another question regarding realignment. Really seeking opinions. It appears that KU is doing a good job of playing the hand it was dealt. They seem to have the trust of UT and OU for whatever that is worth. Given the option of going to a power conference with Texas (say ACC) or going to a power conference without Texas (say Pac 16), which option do you think is preferable?

bville_hawk 3 years, 1 month ago

If it were my decision for KU I would only go to a conference with Texas as a member if all members were treated as equals within the conference. Otherwise I would stay away from the Longhorns, they are poison.

Joseph Kuebel 3 years, 1 month ago

Go west, KU! If we are offered a PAC16 invite and even thought twice about it I cannot explain my dissapointment... KU to the PAC makes the most sense culturally and would be a terrible idea to pass up on.

I will be rooting for UT to go anywhere but the PAC, as this move without question puts us in the best situation. Also, Arizona is MST... It was a non issue with CU, given Utah Zona Zona st are all MST, they would be in our 8 team pod with OU and OSU being a central time. So, KU central times... would stay up for less than 4 games a year (if that; considering we would likely play a couple weekend games) - 2 games being a late nite game for CST KU FANS!!

GO WEST KU! TEXAS: GO ANYWHERE BUT PAC 12-16!!

TtownHawk 3 years, 1 month ago

AZ is only in MST for half of the year. Technically they aren't in a time zone. When we have daylight savings AZ stays at their current time.

David Meredith 3 years, 1 month ago

Seems like a move to the Big East would make it much harder to recruit the state of Texas in football... would be a great move for the bball team, but football would suffer as usual....

Becca Farish 3 years, 1 month ago

Get out get out while there is still a place to go beebe has sank the big 12 ..... GO GO GO GO GO GO GO any major conference will be better then the mountain west

Jim Pendleton 3 years, 1 month ago

I have to agree completely with rob4lb on this. I basically said this a few weeks ago in another post. It is an absolute no brainer to go to the Pac-12 if the opportunity is offered. We have a number of teams we have played often in many sports, and it would be great to build new rivalries from those past experiences.

The point about game times is spot on. It should not be that big of a deal on west coast or mountain time zone game times, particularly during basketball season. Assuming you play most, if not all, of your games against east division, those will all be central or mountain time games. There might be an occasional game that starts later, but we are already used to some 8 or 8:30 starts.

While the Pac 12/16 bb tourney would probably be in LA most of the time, I think the possibility exists that they might move it around some, particularly with schools in multiple time zones. We could dream it might be in KC occasionally (with no school in MO, maybe not).

From a football point of view, you will have four schools who you are used to playing, plus Utah and two Ariz schools. Football title game for the Rose Bowl (hey we can dream can't we?), plus with this many schools in mountain and central time areas, I wouldn't rule out Fiesta or Cotton Bowl games either. I think we can continue to improve the football program in this set up.

I am just not all that wild about the Big East or the ACC for a lot of reasons. The eastern schools are very snobby (hey Texas should fit right in to that). Most wouldn't consider us or any other midwestern schools as a big rival. Most would be hard to travel to for away games, and you are looking at bb tourney in either New York or Charlotte/Greensboro most of the time.

Will always hope the Big 12 could be saved, but have to be realistic that it probably won't survive this time. If that is the case, we need to do what is best for KU, and that is the Pac 12 if offered. Rock Chalk!!

142466 3 years, 1 month ago

Agreed.

If you label each one of the 50 states as Eastern or Western, Kansas is Western. Always has been, always will be.

I winter near the UCLA campus. The site of the PAC tourney isn't as important to Angelenos as it is to us. So many other sports & entertainment events unfolding each week in SoCal. There will be several rotating tourney sites. Too many member teams, scattered across the conference map, not to rotate it. Basic fairness.

Do not fear UCLA bb. The Angelos I rub shoulders with know & respect our bb history and envy KU's current lofty position. They will welcome our addition.

The 1960's & 70's are long gone. UCLA will never again have an unfair advantage in the NCAA tourney. There's plenty of room for two bb powerhouses in the western half of the USA. There'll be a bunch of other worthy PAC teams nipping at our heals, too. The outcome of recent KU v. PAC basketball games suggests that we'll quickly ascend to the top of the league.

And the sports programs of nearly all the highest ranked public universities in the West will be affiliated. Finally, the East coast egg heads will be forced to give us our due.

If, if, we are invited we should be feel proud and reply with a resounding YES.

Hank Cross 3 years, 1 month ago

Yes, Yes. 1,000 times Yes to the P16! The best blend of academics, athletics, and locations in the US. And that's not subject to reasonable debate.

Let's look at this from the academic side. KU a collegue with Stanford, Cal and UCLA. Plus, there many CA students who would love a chance to get away from CA for awhile and try something different (many are fascinated by snow) and quite a few might choose to spend their college years in what has consistently been rated on of the best college towns in America. This would be an excellent chance for KU picking up out-of-state tuition dollars.

Pauley, Galen Center (USC), Haas Pavilion (Cal) all become AFH West. Sounds so good I'll change my avatar until this idea goes bust or comes true.

If KU walks away from this opportunity should it present itself, it will have no one to blame should it end up in MWC when the B12 goes bust.

Krohnutz 3 years, 1 month ago

Yeah I'm totally for moving West. I wish we had snagged it over Utah last year.

We have so many Jayhawk faithfull all up and down the Cali coast, we would be waving the wheat in their houses in three time zones.

I think the national exposure to the coastal population would skyrocket Bill Self's recruiting. The guy can recruit already, now give him the ability to say, "Yeah we are going to play in the state of California," yeah man.

Stop getting me excited, I have to sleep tonight. Work beckons early.

Kevin Huffman 3 years, 1 month ago

Yeah, the only way I would see them "walking away" is if it were to come down to them or TTech going west and there was already something in the works wherein they could join KSU & MU in the Big Ten....then I'd find that more appealing.

haydenhawkco 3 years, 1 month ago

I agree - you're the best thing in Arlington Heights since Harry's.

FLJHK 3 years, 1 month ago

My choices: 1. Big 10, although there is no indication that is a viable option in the immediate future. 2. PAC with OU, OSU, and MU. 3. Any conference that doesn't include a Texas school. UT is a great school, but their ego has vastly outgrown their character and integrity. No other school in that state brings anything to the table that I truly respect. 4. A western division of the Big East, that hopefully includes KSU, ISU and possibly MU. I can certainly see MU going to the SEC.

The ACC option seems too ridiculous to even give attention. I just don't see that happening. Thankfully, the SEC also does not seem to be an option for us and I'm glad for that.

I care about academic integrity and affinity as much as athletic partnerships. Only the Big 10 and PAC are appealing from that perspective.

rob4lb 3 years, 1 month ago

In total agreement. If you check the Orangebloods article, it does not mention KU as an option for the ACC. The expansion discussion centered around pulling in Syracuse, UCONN and Rutgers. That is just another reason to stay away from the Big East. The strongest football schools are Pitt and West Virginia and both are also rumored to be targeted by other conferences.

All of this is UT exploring options. I think their greed has caught up with them a bit as the article indicates they are scrambling for options that allow them to retain power and influence.

canuckhawk 3 years, 1 month ago

Good work on everything Matt. You'll scoop that Chip Brown yet.

This was my favorite line: "The goal for the Longhorns always has been to find a way to keep the Big 12 going strong."

Kind of like keeping your toilet in good shape. Good stuff.

I'll be glad when this ride comes to an end and I can sort out the landscape. I don't mind a little shake up now and then, but this is getting crazy.

Matt Tait 3 years, 1 month ago

Thanks, canuck! It's fun to follow... about 88% of the time. :-)

hawkfan0311 3 years, 1 month ago

I can't believe it has gotten to this. Look at everyone trying to figure out which far reach of the country we are going to have to play in.

A few things: 1) I am so angry at UT for messing up the old Big 8, the thought of going anywhere with them nauseates me. Texas has had a hand in killing both conferences it has been in. If I was a conference, I would need to take a long hard look at admitting these jack-wagons.

2) My wife is an OU grad so I am more tied into Sooner stuff then I would like to be. The fact that Oklahoma is looking means the Big 12 is dead. An earlier post stated that when Boren (OU prez) says something, you better listen. I agree with that completely. Neither Boren nor Castiglione run their mouths like the Longhorn clowns. They say it, they mean it.

3) I haven't been that impressed by Gray-Little yet; she better not mess this up.

Hank Cross 3 years, 1 month ago

According to this, the ACC Commish calls Bevo Scatology on the Orangebloods story. http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/31764547 You have to take every thing that Cowchip Brown says as possible UT disinformation. The part of the orangebloods story that does ring true, however, is UT's refusal to let go of the LHN. Maybe the P12 put out feelers to KU to leverage UT. Maybe UT doesn't want to be an equal and have to split its money with a bunch of left coast commies. Either way, Boomer Sooner - blow this conference up this week!

Ludwig Supraphonic 3 years, 1 month ago

In politics, locals generally see their representative as effective and everyone else as a crook. These realignment discussions have the same flavor. People who already hated UT, TAMU, Cobs, OU, etc. have an opportunity to vent their spleen. We want our AD and Chancellor to ruthlessly represent our interests. Everyone else is power-mad and manipulative.

Nick Cole 3 years, 1 month ago

I live in Tampa but travel to the West and Midwest quite often for work. I would love the chance to see my Hawks play while on a business trip in Cali or Oregon or Arizona.

I don't like the ACC as we would be second fiddle to the UNC v Duke rivalry in basketball. ESPN would never talk KU bball, which would be sad. SEC = not an option, which is a good thing. B10 = would be nice as far as travel goes for the student-athletes and fans, but they don't seem like they are going to make a decision until some more shaking up happens. Plus, they likely want to expand east and poach some top football programs from the Big East. Speaking of the Big East, they will likely get picked apart by the B10 and ACC, so no thank you. Even though I would get to see the Hawks when they play at USF, not worth it.

Thus, the PAC it is. I like that move and would fully support it. I would really love it if OU, MU, UT, and KU went to the PAC. This way we keep our footing in Texas for recruiting, but UT would have to "disolve" TLN into something smaller and accept equal revenue, making them less of a control freak over the entire conf. Also, keeping the KU v MU rivalry and UT v OU rivalry in the same conf would be really nice and should be something the PAC would be interested in.

Kevin Huffman 3 years, 1 month ago

Problem with that being OU's taking OSU whereever they go. I wouldn't be too happy if it ended up OU, OSU, UT & MU. If that happens we need to begging & pleading to the Big Ten.

Nick Cole 3 years, 1 month ago

MU likely either goes to the SEC or B10. If they go the the PAC, a spot will be left open in one of those confs. KU could fill that spot if they got excluded in favor of MU to the PAC. However, I don't see that happening.

I get your point about OU and OSU staying together. However, I think it will be more about what the PAC wants and not what OU and OSU want. The PAC commish knows he is in control here, and if he wants OU without OSU, he will likely get it. But OU, OSU, KU, plus another BXII school will likely be the ones going to the PAC.

However, if I were the PAC commish, I would be more interested by OU, UT, KU, and MU coming as a package versus any other combo. I was simply stating the this scenario should be something the PAC would be interested in.

Kevin Huffman 3 years, 1 month ago

My personal preferrences:

1) Big XII stays in tact and adds three more to get back to 12 again (my preferred three being BYU, Louisville & Pittsburgh)

2) Get added to Big Ten along with Mizzou and possibly (though less likely) also K-State in a similar move to get to 16.

3) Get added to SEC along with Mizzou (most likely) & a school like Va. Tech or the like from the ACC....virtually kills any future football resurrection but we'd look good in basketball there, that's for sure

4) Get included in the move to the Pac-16. Behind SEC & Big Ten just for the fact of how late many of the games way out west would be and I'd miss some of them potentially.

5) Added to Big East

6) Added to ACC....only behing Big East due to at least there's SOME teams that are nearby in the Big East....i.e., TCU, Louisville, Marquette, De Paul, Cincinnati, Notre Dame (though not in football). I mean what would be the closest team geographically from the ACC, like N.C. State or Va. Tech if they don't go to the SEC?!?!?!

7) Added to Mtn. West

8) Try to remain a conference with like just 4 left (KU, KSU, Baylor & ISU) and be adding bits & pieces to at least get back to 10.

9) Added to Conference USA [ far and away the worst contemplated outcome]

jgkojak 3 years, 1 month ago

B10 is not adding any non-AAU member schools - meaning KSU and ISU are out.

tulsahawk13 3 years, 1 month ago

They would jump at the chance to get Notre Dame who is a non AAU member... so let's quit acting like this is the deciding factor.

jgkojak 3 years, 1 month ago

The Pac-12 called Texas on its demands and refused to allow them to keep their Network.

So Oklahoma sees an opening, a way to get into a conference without Texas.

Texas calls the ACC as a bit of a power play (hint: they'll be an independent before they'll go to the ACC).

Which leaves us with: Oklahoma and OSU may very well go to the Pac. If Texas doesn't go, the Pac may very well invite Kansas as a partner for OU/OSU (and Colorado) and maybe KSU (since they're taking OSU).

And then Texas has a choice - they can go to the Pac with Texas Tech and the Oklahoma schools, they can remain behind and rebuild the B12 or they can go Indy.

And then Kansas has a choice. Do you: a. Go to the Pac with KSU, OU and OSU (more on this in a moment) or b. help Texas rebuild the B12, probably with BYU and SMU (two national schools with huge endowments) and maybe Air Force (another national following).
c. Stay out of all of it, make a play for the B10 and when rejected join the Big East with the other B12 schools.

(ANSWER: 'b' is the wrong answer - because you can't trust Texas. I can't decide between 'a' and 'c'-- discuss).


A Pac 16 without Texas: EAST DIVISION Kansas KSU Oklahoma OSU Colorado Utah Arizona Arizona St

I see two things here:
1) the basketball is not bad, about what we have now (when the WEST Div./UCLA are factored in) and 2) Other than Oklahoma, there's a lot more football wins than we were getting in the B12

Again, discuss.

Pitthawk34 3 years, 1 month ago

NO WAY, there is no way and I mean no way KSU goes to the PAC their athletic budget does not warrant such action. Yes OSU is going only because of OU. If KU goes Kstate will not follow. Texas will end up going to the PAC and it will be between KU and TT. They will take TT because of TX. Period. We will end up in the Big East and kansas state will follow us like that little brother who has yet to get rid of their blankie.

Joseph Kuebel 3 years, 1 month ago

+1, Our best chance is UT goes elsewhere and we get in with MU...

Next (and I still can't believe someone from KU, who should understend economics better than a 5th grader mentioned KSU as a possibility). KSU? REALLY? REALLY? Was that a joke? I hope it was, because if not you should probably see a doctor and check for some brain or neurological issues.

LOLLLLLLLLL KSTATE A PAC16 OFFER!?!?!?!?!? UHHH WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON? CAN YOU SEND ME SOME OF WHAT YOU ARE SMOKING??? Actually on second thought Il pass, I don't ever want to be that dysfunctional, ever. LOLL. But seriously, 100% correct. Absolutely no chance that happens. It is as likely as Pitt St. getting A PAC16 offer. Wow. Meth? Paint thinner? Smh... C'Mon fellow Jayhawks... you dissapointed me, surely you can think more critically than this... You are sounding like you have a Kstate education by even mentioning them getting an offer. Dissapointed in even hearing this out of a fellow fan. We are all dumber for having read what you wrote.

DevilHawk 3 years, 1 month ago

Where do you see "a lot more football wins" there?

K-State and CU would be toss-ups. The Oklahoma schools would probably be losses. Utah has a good football program. ASU seems to be on the up-and-up after rebuilding properly (and plays Mizzou on Friday). UofA probably has a better football team than KU does, considering that they didn't neglect the program.

The proposed West division would be the old Pac 8. UCLA is down currently, as is Washington State. Washington might be an even match for KU, but the remaining schools are better.

On the other hand, the staff has upgraded the talent on the team. Therefore, I find it difficult to reasonably compare the results in the Big 12 with the results that future seasons will hold - no matter who we play.

Joseph Kuebel 3 years, 1 month ago

No chance KSU gets an invite. They are a liability, not an asset.

lama 3 years, 1 month ago

Have you ever been to Arizona Stadium? DUMP! KU is light years ahead in facilities, and has already upgraded the stadium. More needs to be done (track etc.), but the interior of Arizona Stadium and press box is worse than Memorial before the renovations.

DevilHawk 3 years, 1 month ago

I got caught up in the results of the 2009 and 2010 seasons.

142466 3 years, 1 month ago

Option a. (PAC) trumps all others. (Though I doubt that KSU will be invited.)

B10 is still pondering & reacting, with the Irish looking over their shoulder. B10 likely won't extend invitations until another year or two have passed. KU might not make the cut. Probably only 3 invitees, plus the Irish. Too risky.

We best fit into the PAC, for a host of reasons already discussed in this and other forums.

U.S. history tells us that our country's movement & progression have been steadily westward. Kansas is a western state, not eastern.

KU to the PAC.

Ben Kane 3 years, 1 month ago

is it me or is espn seriously lacking in their coverage of all this? hmmm, i wonder why that could be (sarcasm in case it wasn't thick enough).

HawkTronic 3 years, 1 month ago

Nothing in the past 15 months has scared me more than Matt's statement that the chancellor is driving this.

rob4lb 3 years, 1 month ago

Let me give you a positive aspect to that and it's just a theory. The chancellor's focus is on both academic and athletics. There is benefit in being in a conference with schools that fit you academic profile. From an academic standpoint, the preferred conferences are Big 10 and Pac 12. From an athletic standpoint, I also believe these are the best options.

I have this concern that there will be political pressure on us to join the Big East with K-State. Other than the lack of stability with members possibly being poached by the ACC and Big 10, there is no great academic fit. The chancellor may push toward the Pac 12 if offered.

trey 3 years, 1 month ago

Disclaimer... I admit to having zero inside information, contacts, or insight. I'm just a KU alum and fan who's both concerned AND excited about our future. And have no idea whether our leaders in this game (BGL and Z) have the ability to lead us to a good place.

That said, in my view the Big East would be a massive failure by KU leadership and a 1-3 year solution for KU at best, before we're right back in the same position but in an even weaker condition.

Because... the Big East isn't going to make it as a Super Conference either. Like the Big12 they're too weak to stop their best programs from being poached by the more powerful conferences. As soon as invited, the Big East programs will bolt over the next couple of years.

It looks to me like...

The 4 Super Conferences will be build around the ACC, SEC, BIG and PAC (each has 12 teams today).

Though there will be speculation, I do not believe any schools will leave these conference for another (ie. Maryland won't leave ACC for BIG, when all said and done).

So there are 16 slots to be had, four in each of these conferences.

There are likely 22 teams competing for these 16 slots, including current members of Big12 (10 teams), Big East football (8 teams), + ND, BYU, TCU and Boise State.

KU must (and should) get one of these 16 slots.

There are obviously many configurations that could play out, but in end I believe (and hope) that geography/proximity is a major factor. Travel for fans as well as student athletes should be a major issue.

The configuration that makes the most sense to me based on geography, culture, academics (and the one I hope plays out) is...

ACC: Adds UConn, Syracuse, Pitt and Louisville. SEC: Adds A&M, OU, OSU, West Virginia. BIG: Adds ND, Rutgers, MU, KU PAC: Adds Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, BYU

Out: Cincinatti, S. Florida, Baylor, K-State, Iowa State, Boise State

If you don't like this picture, start exchanging schools from one Super to another, but with each Super ending up with 16. If KU doesn't make the cut in the BIG, we have to get into the PAC. Though I think the BIG is a better fit, I would be excited about either. Going to the PAC with OU, OSU, and either Texas or Missouri would be good too. Either the West division of the BIG or the East division of the PAC will be a good place for KU.

The West division of the Big East is a losing proposition, because this will blow up too over the next couple of years, and if the slots in the BIG and PAC are already taken, KU is screwed.

I sure hope our leadership is thinking way ahead on this, ie. end-game. If they push or settle for a solution with KU and K-State going to the Big East, it will say a lot about the strength of our leadership (or lack there of). I think we will find out pretty soon.

142466 3 years, 1 month ago

Excellent.

One or more of the 4 Supers could go to 18 teams, though. PAC is ahead of the curve & has been preparing for the Super Conference scenario. They're eager to expand NOW. Whether the PAC goes to 16 or 18, if we're invited, we should ACCEPT.

Don't wait for the Big 10. Could be a year or two before they invite anybody. We might not be included. Too risky.

If all the major players end up in the 4 Super Conferences then, at long last, there will be 4 league championship football games, followed by a 4 team national championship tournament. KU football won't be in the mix for the forseeable future. No biggy. We aren't a football player now, either.

mustlehustle 3 years, 1 month ago

Again...whether OU stays or goes....a proactive measure of approaching the Mountain West Conference and convince Colorado State, Air Force, Wyoming, and convince TCU from Big East, and convince SMU and Houston to join the Big 12...creates a geographic friendly Conference, captures some of the Denver TV market, increases market share and cross town rivalry with SMU and TCU, and Houston would benefit from the new rivarlries in-state as well. The aggressive movements may have schools like OU and OSU to reconsider staying put. Again, NBC is quickly positioning itself to reclaim some lost market share in football and may be eager to bid on a newly created conference that includes some of their MWC "Versus" teams.

ahpersecoachingexperience 3 years, 1 month ago

I'm sure the networks will be fighting like crazy for the rights to air the big CSU vs Wyoming game!!!

okiedave 3 years, 1 month ago

Keep the Big XII alive. Let the Big XII South go where they want and bring in Boise State, BYU, Colo. State, Air Force, Utah State and Utah and Wyoming. Great travel destinations -- lots of skiing. Who wants to go to Philadelphia or Los Angeles to watch a game?

average 3 years, 1 month ago

Utah isn't leaving a big-$ PAC deal to jump back to a re-warmed MWC. Honestly, they're pretty thrilled to not be tied in with BYU any more (ask someone for a Utah school and they'll name BYU, not the Utes). If we're going that direction, might as well add the rest of the MWC.

Totally not the biggest money around, but I, for one, wouldn't cry a bit about KU being a big fish in a "MWC + bringing back BYU & TCU + KU + KSU + ISU + Baylor" pond. Yes it's a pool of runts, but there are enough teams and reasonable programs there that the league champion would pretty much have to be an AQ to the BCS. And KU has a much more believable chance of ever being that champion than in a 16-team B1G/SEC/PAC.

Justin Lindsley 3 years, 1 month ago

Its just sad... I thought we would be OK for at least 5 years. By then maybe some of this would have cooled down. There is no reguard for the student athelete or the fan. This is all money related. The "Business of College Athletics". Who's interest is really behind all of this crap? At this point the Big 12 is a no go. Even if they come together, how long till the next school puffs its chest out and looks for greener grass.

"The grass may be greener on the other side of the fence,..... but it still has to be mowed"

I hope KU lands on her feet in a good conference. I hope that it will work well with our fan base. rock chalk no matter what!!!!!!!!!!

Randy Bombardier 3 years, 1 month ago

If Texas goes to the ACC, does everybody else stay? That would be a good scenario, but frankly I want stability. Big 10, PAC, East but ACC? Go with Texas? No and no.
If we end up in PAC my guess is ten years from now there will be a movement to form a new conference right where we are. Megaconferences will not be here for long. Smaller is better.

Josh Galler 3 years, 1 month ago

just saw on Bob Fescoe's FB page, that the two Arizona schools are looking at expanded Big 12?

Interesting. Lets see if they come to us OU stas TAMU leaves who would we get as a 12th team BYU, AirForce?

ahpersecoachingexperience 3 years, 1 month ago

No way do they give up their presence in socal.

142466 3 years, 1 month ago

The 2 Arizona schools' wish will come true in the form of an eastern division of the PAC 16 or (18).

Bear86 3 years, 1 month ago

Matt, It's good you pointed out that the true power brokers in conference re-alignment are the Chancellors and President's of the University's. I could not agree more. This is why I'm so concerned with BGL. She is out of her league and does not have the clout to navigate KU through this mess. Our AD is a nice guy but he also is coming from a Jr College. Weak leadership will bring the house down. Hopefully the board of regents and the alumni get involved. If KU falls out of a BCS conference you can kiss HCBS good bye. F-Texas!!!

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