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Realignment Today: Syracuse and Pitt to ACC a done deal? KU to follow?

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7:19 p.m. Update:

Boy, how things can change while you're watching a team get pounded on the field... I can only imagine that ACC officials have been talking realignment all day if things have changed as much as some are reporting.

This update from Orangebloods.com speaks to the ACC cooling on Texas — and, therefore, Kansas, too — and the most likely destination for the Longhorns becoming a combination of leftover Big East and Big 12 schools. That might be the same scenario for KU, too, now.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1266526

I'm still not sold that the ACC is completely off the table, but I do think there is plenty of support at KU for staying with K-State and Missouri, which makes the Big East and Big 12 the most likely scenarios at this point.

I just finished writing my game story from the Georgia Tech loss and I'm about to jump back on the phones now.

Before I do, here's the updated percentage wheel.

  1. Big 12 - 30%
  2. Big East - 30%
  3. ACC - 21%
  4. Big Ten - 17%
  5. Pac-12 - 2%

Stay tuned...

11:02 a.m. Update:

About 30 minutes until kickoff and, so far this morning, the talk around Bobby Dodd Stadium has been a lot more about Syracuse and Pitt than Georgia Tech and Kansas.

I've asked around and many other people in the press box have their own sources who back up what I reported earlier. The Syracuse and Pitt think looks very solid at the moment and more than a few local media members have their own sources saying they've heard KU is an ACC target. Perhaps we're talking to some of the same people.

Stay tuned...

8:26 a.m. Update:

Quick update on the New York Times report about Syracuse and Pitt conducting talks with the ACC. I'm hearing now that this will happen and that the ACC will make the announcement sometime Sunday.

It is believed that the ACC is serious about not getting left out in the cold on all of this expansion stuff. Them making the first bold move like this would certainly indicate that.

What's more, the rumors are roaring that the league would like Texas and Kansas to become the 15th and 16th members. There's a lot of stuff that would need to happen before we reach that point. And just because the ACC wants those two schools doesn't mean the ACC will get them.

That said, it is in line with what I've been hearing all along and would make a ton of sense for Kansas. Remember, KU's chancellor, Bernadette Gray-Little, came from North Carolina, where she was the provost, aka No. 2 on the totem pole. Gray-Little knows the ACC administrators very well and most that I've talked to throughout the last few weeks have praised her for being actively and passionately involved in the realignment talks.

Updated percentage wheel... we have a new leader.

  1. ACC - 41%
  2. Big 12 - 29%
  3. Big Ten - 14%
  4. Big East - 11%
  5. Pac-12 - 5%

Stay tuned...

8:15 a.m. Update:

It's gameday in Atlanta and most of today will be spent focusing on KU's attempt to improve to 3-0 by knocking off Georgia Tech for the second straight season.

Be sure to check back about an hour before kickoff to follow along with Jesse Newell's live gameday blog.

That said, just because it's Saturday and just because we all should be focused 100 percent on football, does not mean that the realignment talk will stop.

Late last night a report surfaced from Pete Thamel of the New York Time that said that Pittsburgh and Syracuse were involved in talks with the ACC about joining the Atlantic Coast Conference.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/sports/ncaafootball/syracuse-and-pitt-in-talks-with-acc.html?_r=1&ref=sports

What this means for KU is completely up in the air at this point but it could be a couple of different things. Here they are, laid out in neat and tidy fashion.

  1. The ACC's desire to expand could be good news for the idea of KU joining the league that contains Duke and North Carolina. If the ACC is serious about adding Pitt and Syracuse, it means they're serious about sticking around. To do that, they're going to have to keep up with the other conferences looking to expand and whether that could very well mean adding schools like Texas and Kansas, among others.

  2. The ACC's talks with Pitt and Syracuse could be the league bracing for a few of their own schools to get poached by other conferences. Florida State to the SEC, Georgia Tech and/or Maryland to the Big Ten. Each could happen. And if one or all did, then it would be up to the ACC to add teams quickly to ensure it's survival. Again, that would make adding teams such as Texas, Kansas and, perhaps even Missouri, very attractive options.

  3. The ACC's talks with Pitt and Syracuse could mean that there is no interest from the Big Ten in adding those schools, which, in turn, could open the door for Kansas and Missouri to join the Big Ten should that league look to join in the expansion parade.

  4. Pitt and Syracuse could be using these "talks" with the ACC to leverage a spot in the Big Ten. You know how it works... when a team, or perhaps a girl, is coveted by another conference or dude, it can make that team/girl more attractive to all the other dudes/conferences out there.

Who knows?

We'll be mostly about the game today but if anything big breaks, we'll try to update things here.

Stay tuned...

Comments

MWShields 6 years, 5 months ago

Tait, the bottom line is that the current BCS make up is 67 teams. 4 super conferences of 16 means that 3 schools will be left out. I can't help but thing Iowa State and Baylor are 2 of those schools and the third could be Cincy or K State. That said, if someone were to sit down and start mapping out potential moves there might be a better understanding of where KU will end up. None of the super conferences are going to add non BCS schools into the mix so it becomes a matter of who goes where since what makes sense doesn't matter.

hawksince51 6 years, 5 months ago

I was just doing the math myself; excluding the Big 12/9 there are 58 football schools (including aTm and TCU) in the other 5 BCS conferences plus ND makes 59. So under the 4 Super Conference, 64 school scenario, that leaves 5 spots available for the 9 remaining Big 12 schools. So 4 school would be left out in the cold. That would seem to make it urgent for KU to get tied up with one of the to-be Super Conferences sooner not later. I think we agree on the numbers if you left out ND.

MWShields 6 years, 5 months ago

I don't think you can count TCU at this point, they are sure to be back out in the cold considering they are a small private school and aTm and UT will add all the Texas markets there is no real value to adding TCU to a BCS conference.

I think KU is going to end up in one of the 4 super conferences it just may not be the "best" fit we could hope for.

Baylor is out and ISU is out, KU is more of a brand than KSU and Cincinnati and is closer to a large market.

Hank Cross 6 years, 5 months ago

I think you left out TCU, which I would already count in the BCS. I agree that Cincy and KU are at risk of being the last team out.

MWShields 6 years, 5 months ago

TCU is not currently a BCS school, they would become one next year when the join the Big East.

ND is one I forgot about which would take it to 68 schools.

I don't think KU is in jeopardy of being left out, I think it is much more likely that KSU, Cincy, or even UConn could be left out.

Eric Dawson 6 years, 5 months ago

Actually you have to consider the 6 existing BCS conferences (66 schools) plus Notre Dame plus TCU, which would definitely be BCS next year (moving to the BE) if not for all this. So, since the B1G, the SEC, the Pac1# and the ACC are not looking to kick anyone out of their leagues, 4 superconferences of 16 leaves 4 current programs without a BCS chair when the music stops.

Allowing for Matt's report that the Pitt & Syracuse announcement will be made tomorrow, the next question is does the ACC invite Rutgers, who will be the only dual standard (AAU+BCS) eastern school left for the B1G to look at unless it can successfully poach Maryland, Virginia or Georgia Tech. All I've read, though (and I've been spending way too much time on this reading stuff from all the conferences) is that even though some ACC schools are reportedly forming formal realignment committees (e.g., Florida St), they are also saying they are happy with the ACC and have no intention to move. They just want to be on top of what is best for their schools (and it doesn't hurt the ACC that they are hand in glove with ESPN/ABC/Disney).

So, if the ACC does succeed in building up and retaining its existing members -- especially if they can get Rutgers to join, too (adding UConn for stability instead of Texas would be too much to ask, but if the ACC is serious about Texas and its ESPN-backed LHN, the better for KU) -- they will have cherry picked the northeast right out from under the B1G's collective noses, and effectively forced the SEC to look at the remaining Big East football members (WVU, UConn, Cincinnati, Louisville, South Florida and 2012 member TCU in the DFW metro) for growth to the east and south.

So assume for the sake of argument: the ACC lands Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and UConn; OU & OSU to the Pac1#; A&M to the SEC and Notre Dame finally says yes to the B1G. The ACC will have forced the B1G, the SEC and the Pac1# to look beyond the BE remnants to the remaining Big 12 teams for potential additions to their conferences to fill the remaining 8 more holes in their 16 team templates.

This assumes that the ACC members are sane and won't really go near Texas other than to play a little Texas Hold 'Em, that leaves Texas, TT, Baylor, ISU, KU, KSU and MU as the remnants of the B12. tu doesn't really want to go anywhere else because they want to continue to be the conference "leader", and that is only possible in a new Big 12. But without A&M, OU & OSU will it really be a viable league? Will anyone seriously trust it not to blow up again as soon as next year? Could it work and we end up with 5 16-team BCS conferences for 80 teams, filling in the remaining 17 holes in the 5 conferences (8 for the B1G, SEC and Pac1# and 9 for the Big 12) with the top remaining FBS programs like BYU, Boise St, San Diego St, UCF, Air Force and Navy?

Eric Dawson 6 years, 5 months ago

To finish my thoughts -- Even if we say the Big 12 only needs 3 to get back to 10 or 5 to 12, the answer is "NO". To get their 8 to make 16 the B1G, the SEC and/or the Pac1# will make offers to tu (and probably TT as a partner), MU and KU. MU will go if offered by either the B1G or the SEC, not sure about the Pac1#. KU better go if offered by any of the three (my order of preference: B1G, SEC, Pac1#). Even if KU should end up in one of them with Texas, Texas would not be the bully in the bar in any of them. I don't believe Texas and TT together would be enough to keep the B12 as a BCS conference, even if it added BSU, BYU and TCU to get back to 8. But who knows?

blindrabbit 6 years, 5 months ago

Still say PAC12 is our best option from sports and academic POV's.

haydenhawkco 6 years, 5 months ago

I would rather have KU in the PAC 12 but that's me being selfish because of my proximity to the other schools. However, ACC is WAY better than Big East right now. I'm not sure KU can start a bidding war between ACC and PAC 12.

DanHogan95 6 years, 5 months ago

This MSU grad really hopes that #3 is true (GT, Syracuse stay in eastern conferences and KU/KSU/Mizz have a shot at the Big Ten). Counting to 16 bigtime schools in the west is tough to do without covering a huge geography. In the midwest, southeast, and northeast it really isn't. KU/KSU/Mizz would be great additions to go with Nebraska and Iowa.

Eric Dawson 6 years, 5 months ago

We sure think so, but we are admittedly rather biased in our perspective. Hope your hopes -- and ours -- are realized!

Rock Chalk, Mr. Spartan! (more MSU v KU -- man, wouldn't those be fun games on the hardwood?)

DanHogan95 6 years, 5 months ago

Oh, heck yeah!! Mr Izzo needs to get his squad back in gear, but man would that be fun. I would hope the Bill Self/Illinois thing would be okay, too.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

Wow. I know Texas was hoping to have some regional traveling partners, wouldn't that put a dent in getting Texas? Oh well, as the realignment world turns!

Ryan Gerstner 6 years, 5 months ago

No, Big 10 is by far the best from sports and academic POV and it's not even close. It doesn't appear that it's an option though.

If things are remotely equal, you go east. You'd lose too much attention going west. PAC is unquestionably better than the Big East though.

Tait, where are you seeing all the rumors about ACC wanting KU and UT? Rumors "roaring" is a pretty strong characterization. I'm certainly not getting the feel right now that KU's #15 or 16. I certainly hope we are, but it seems like the rumors about us and the ACC have died down.

Matt Tait 6 years, 5 months ago

It's strong because the talk is strong. I'm not sure if they're out there in the public very much — yet — but I know that a lot of people in the know are hearing a lot about this....

Like I said, one step at a time here. The ACC may be interested in KU but if the Big Ten is, too, that still may be a better fit for KU. At this point, though, if the ACC wants KU to come with Texas, it would be hard to turn that down.

Ryan Gerstner 6 years, 5 months ago

Cool. I was hoping you were hearing that from people in the know versus message board chatter. I could care less if it's public that other conferences are looking at KU. It's nice to be coveted, but at the end of the day, I only care about the end result. I want a good stable league that keeps KU financially competitive going forward. If we can get into a league with a better academic profile, better yet. If the Big 10 is out of the question, my dream scenario is ACC, but the ACC requires KU to raise admission standards as a condition of accepting our membership. It'd be great to stampede the Board of Regents on our way to another league. However, I'm hoping Delany has a card up his sleeve that involves the Jayhawks. The Big 10 has been eerily too quiet in all this. You have to think they're doing some maneuvering behind the scenes.

Ryan Gerstner 6 years, 5 months ago

Let's put it this way. If ACC is offering us, I'm out the door tomorrow even if the Big 10 is still a possibility. We're not in the position to leave things to chance here. The first major option we get that's not the Big East, I'm gone.

Jeff Kilgore 6 years, 5 months ago

Yes! I completely agree. These aren't times for contemplation. This is musical chairs on steroids.

Kyle Sybesma 6 years, 5 months ago

Texas and KU to the ACC? Not Texas and Texas Tech? What happened to Tech?

Ethan Berger 6 years, 5 months ago

no body in the state of Texas likes Tech. And I really mean No body. Tech fans are regarded by many as the worst fans. ESPN did a poll on the big 12 a few years back. And one of the question was worst fans and Tech won easily.

Steve Hillyer 6 years, 5 months ago

Not to mention it's a junk university, I've never been convinced Tech was going anywhere, even the pac ? when those rumors were rampant.

Ethan Berger 6 years, 5 months ago

Also they have a famous STD called the Raider Rash. and that is what you need to know about Tech. lol

justajoe 6 years, 5 months ago

"It's strong because the talk is strong. I'm not sure if they're out there in the public very much — yet — but I know that a lot of people in the know are hearing a lot about this.... "

Really? A lot of people in the know? Name just one. Would it really be asking too much that you identify even one source behind all this strong talk and all these roaring rumors, or at the very least that you identify the conference or institution an anonymous source putting out this stuff is associated with? Has it really degenerated to this level of 'reporting'? Don't we deserve a little better?

Ethan Berger 6 years, 5 months ago

I have never seen a report where someone gave away who told them stuff like this. The person would get in so much trouble. Come on bra

justajoe 6 years, 5 months ago

Please read a post carefully before responding. I wrote that I'd settle for the conference or school affiliation of a single, anonymous source.

Ethan Berger 6 years, 5 months ago

It sounds that Tait is getting info from KU.

justajoe 6 years, 5 months ago

Then he should say so. It's Journalism 101.

Ethan Berger 6 years, 5 months ago

you still have to be careful. I will trust tait on what the right thing to do is, over you 8 days a week.

Ethan Berger 6 years, 5 months ago

and you would still have to be super careful. If it is a school from the ACC talking, Baylor would be right there to sue and rightfully so.

Matt Tait 6 years, 5 months ago

You deserve for the information we report to be credible and accurate. It is.

Not saying this can't change but, as of now, this info is as good as good as any I've had.

If I were to start tipping my hand or even vaguely identifying sources, it could cost me the chance to get this kind of information in the future.

Just trust me that it's from good places. Wouldn't write it if it wasn't.

Ethan Berger 6 years, 5 months ago

Thanks for your work Matt. Your article got my dad to come up and wake me up. Hahaha

justajoe 6 years, 5 months ago

Let me put it this way: Since you reference the story in the New York Times, do you believe the editors at the Times would have put out the story you wrote, without even the vaguest hint of attribution? We both know it would have never seen the light of day. The Times, at least, uses phrases such as 'according to a source with direct knowledge of the talks,' or something to that effect. With your story, we get strong talk, roaring rumors, I know a lot of people and 'trust me.' Again, Journalism 101.

Some form of attribution is all the more important in stories such as this because we all know that the schools and conferences are putting out some of this off-the-record stuff for purposes of posturing or spin. How does the reporter know for sure? If that spin is then reported without the slightest suggestion of attribution, then how does the reader know if the reporter is a tool (whether he knows it or not) of the leaking source, or if the reporter is really on to something or just lazy and looking for material to file a story?

I'm not suggesting the guts of your story regarding KU and a potential move to the ACC doesn't have legs. I'm simply saying that the way it has been reported so far this morning is unacceptable at a responsible news organization.

Matt Tait 6 years, 5 months ago

Your opinion. Certainly entitled to it. I can't expect you to understand the position I'm in.

Hope you can take something out of the work I'm putting in and the things I'm reporting.

justajoe 6 years, 5 months ago

"I can't expect you to understand the position I'm in."

You have no idea how wrong you are.

ParisHawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Hahaha, you're wanting Matt to explain himself further but you're being pretty cryptic yourself! Do unto others.....

justajoe 6 years, 5 months ago

I'm sorry you and the others who've posted regarding my exchange with Mr. Tait don't understand, or want to take the time to try and understand, the importance of attribution, no matter how vague it may be. There's no point in further discussion. Let's all have a good day.

Matt Tait 6 years, 5 months ago

Fair enough. Sorry the reporting hasn't been up to your standards.

Stay tuned if you so desire.

Joseph Kuebel 6 years, 5 months ago

Matt, the positive responses are abundant and you deserve praise for your efforts.

You know you are doing something right when haters start hating.

Nobody in their right mind tells or should tell their sources on a touchy subject like this...

This subject is THE furthest thing from "Journalism 101"...

"Reveal your sources" So the said source can be harassed, damage your credibility and have everyone know you can't keep inside information to yourself?? Ignore this Mizzou fan, obviously he doesn't understand this situation or have the ability to distinguish journalism class from priveledged information.

Sean Rodger 6 years, 5 months ago

Don't be a do--he! He is one of the best writers for kusports.com. His articles are great, if you don't like it - don't read it. If he starts giving up sources, he stops having anything to report on. I doubt you have any knowledge what it takes to write for anyone, so don't act like you do. Quit being a jerk off.

Sean Rodger 6 years, 5 months ago

That was aimed for at justajoe or whatever his screen name is. Matt I think you have great articles and I for one appreciate all the work you put in and keeping us up to date.

Thanks!

justajoe 6 years, 5 months ago

"Don't be a do--he!"

"Quit being a jerk off."

Congratulations on making it clear to the world what preoccupies your mind. Classy!

dynamitehawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Justa -

Matt's reporting has been fantastic... At least for me. I know nothing about journalism, but I bet in "Journalism 101" petty observations on a message board is not part of the curriculum.

I think you should buy the kusports.com guys pizza from Rudy's next week. Here's to roaring rumors, and delicious pizza.

justajoe 6 years, 5 months ago

dynamite-

To begin, are you saying that my posts on this issue are 'petty observations,' or does that description apply to everyone's posts on all message boards?

Just asking so I'm clear on where you're coming from.

dynamitehawk 6 years, 5 months ago

That's a silly question so here's a silly response: I don't think you are a do-ch- or a j-rk-of-. I think that by using comments like "insert profession here 101", implies a complete lack of professionalism to the point that an entry level college course would each otherwise is rather do-chie, or j-rk-offish. Why do I bring this up? No, not to be ugly to you because I can hide behind Jimmy Walker anonymously.... Because I really believe that this is the best coverage on this topic, and I really appreciate the work. Cheers.

justajoe 6 years, 5 months ago

I give up. I extend you the courtesy of allowing you to clarify your confusing reference regarding 'petty observations' and you respond by writing "That's a silly question..." It's hardly my fault that your statement was confusing; I'm not a mind reader. It's obvious you and some others simply cannot grasp the issues I have with the way Mr. Tait reported this story this morning. All we get are jabs at me while you and the others praise Mr. Tait's 'fantastic' reporting. I was simply taking the reporter to task for how he reported this story this morning. Can you not understand the difference?

I'm not asking you to accept my word on any of this. Do a web search on all the reporting that's been done since last night on the potential of Syracuse and Pitt joining the ACC. Find one major news organization that reports this story without either naming a source or identifying the position or perspective of the unnamed source (ie an ACC official, a source with direct knowledge of the talks, etc.). And they often go even further and make an effort to get someone on the record by contacting a spokesperson who, invariably, says they have no comment. That in itself at least gives the reader a little more perspective and background. Did we get any of that in this story regarding KU's potential move to the ACC?

Since you've sarcastically referred to my reference to Journalism 101, you may be interested to know that there's a well-worn story about the journalism professor who, in an attempt to teach his students the importance of sourcing and getting confirmations, told those students in no uncertain terms that if your mother tells you she loves you, get three independent sources to go on the record and confirm it. That's supposed to be the standard. Is it really that difficult to understand?

But again, it's obvious all these explanations are pointless to you and some others. Even Mr. Tait couldn't resist a parting shot of sorts after I suggested we all just move on and have a good day when he wrote that he was "Sorry the reporting hasn't been up to your standards." We'll, Mr. Tait, it's not about me or my standards, but rather the standards of your profession. Those standards are about all that separates journalism from gossip. But I guess if you think what you have to report is that much more important than how you actually report it, no one's going to talk you out of it.

Perhaps, dynamite, and with no disrespect intended, you should have stopped right after you wrote "I know nothing about journalism..."

Now, back to the unsourced rumors.

dynamitehawk 6 years, 5 months ago

dynamite logic start-

"... are you saying that my posts on this issue are 'petty observations,' or does that description apply to everyone's posts on all message boards?"

I had already posted on this board prior to this question; therefore, I would need to think my own observations are petty. I'm far to conceded to assume myself petty, silly one. Which led to my silly reply.

-dynamite logic end

Touche.

I know nothing about journalism or you. You know nothing about me. I won't make veiled attempts to let you know my station in life, but I can tell you I know hustle because I'm a hustler. Matt Tait is a hustler.

You're defending the standards of a dying, elitist, monopolistic, print industry. You will lose, if you spend time making an argument based on what you've eloquently and most likely (I'm admittedly dumb with respect to journalism) accurately described as "standards". This is the new era of information distribution, and news media. It's over, it's all about the Benjamins, and readers now read what they want to because they can. It's all about the clicks. In fact, you have helped today. Thanks.on behalf of the rest of the readers.

Jesse Newell! A request: Please reply with web page hits for this article alone???

Hustle is what Matt and crew have provided. You say he didn't do it "right". Perhaps you actually doubt him. Perhaps you only doubt him because he didn't tell his story right. Either way we disagree. That's cool. But here's how much we disagree: I bought Matt and team pizza last week because of their efforts on this very topic. I'm not a subscriber, nor would I ever be due to geographical issues. I presume you are a journalist, or respect the $hit out of journalistic standards. When's the last time a random reader, with a crazy avatar, who's never met you, bought your team lunch because they were so very grateful for your efforts?

justajoe 6 years, 5 months ago

dynamitehawk,

Thanks for the thoughtful, reasoned and civil response.

It's unfortunate there was a misunderstanding regarding your 'petty observations' comment. But, as you might put it, it's all 'cool' now.

I'd suggest that it's possible that the dramatic turn of events in Mr. Tait's latest update as compared to what he was reporting this morning may turn out to be proof of the dangers of relying too much on unnamed sources and unsourced rumors that I mentioned earlier. Is it more likely that the ACC turned from warm to cool on Texas over the course of this day, or rather that the ACC was never as warm on Texas from the beginning as we were led to believe by Mr. Tait, via his unnamed sources and 'roaring rumors?' If it's the later, there are probably any number of people who took the effort to post on this intriguing story today who now wish they'd spent their time on something more productive, like waging war on the crabgrass in the front yard.

Mr. Tait provides us a link to the orangebloods.com story in his latest update. Look at the number of named sources, or unnamed sources who are nevertheless identified as a person with knowledge of a school or conference. This approach is in line with nearly every story I've read on this issue that's been published by the well-established, reputable news organizations. Isn't it only human nature that a source is far more likely to stick to what he knows to be the facts, as opposed to what he wishes to become facts, when he's on the record, or has been, though anonymously, linked to a school or conference?

It's interesting that you describe Mr. Tait as 'a hustler,' and I know you offered that description as a compliment. The problem is that when a reporter uses unnamed sources, and even refuses to identify the institution or conference that even one unnamed source is connected to, he is setting himself up to be the hustled one. There are many sources who insist on remaining anonymous, but relatively few of them then go so far as to insist that the reporter not even identify who they work for or whose interest they represent. The information provided by those few who do should be employed with considerable skepticism.

I like and respect reporters. They work hard for too little pay doing a largely thankless job. I have a great deal of respect for many of the reporters at the Lawrence Journal-World. I have no reason to dislike Mr. Tait. Reporters can and should be allowed to make mistakes from time to time. However, Mr. Tait's approach to this story today has, for the reasons I've stated, left much to be desired.

Matt Tait 6 years, 5 months ago

To answer your question, I think this just further shows how crazy this entire realignment situation is and illustrates how fast things can change.

When I got the info this morning it was good info and I had every reason to believe it was dead accurate. If you'll notice, I posted the Syracuse and Pitt to be announced Sunday bit before a lot of other people had that...

I believe KU's (and UT's) role in all of it changed over the course of the day.

Now... for the information you've been wanting to know all day... My source is an ACC official, as you'll see in the print version of the story in Sunday's Journal-World.

Maybe I got carried away on principle, but I believe that's where I need to have sources, not in a response to you on a blog.

All's well that ends well, though. I appreciate your contributions to the blog and respect your opinion.

Have a great rest of the weekend. - Matt

Eric Dawson 6 years, 5 months ago

Matt, I would wager (and I'm normally not a betting man) that the vast majority here are behind your work, and appreciate it very much. Some folks simply don't understand that intel sources can dry up fast if you misstep. We just hope your "Deep Throat"(s)*, whoever s/he/they are, have good intel. Keep up the good work!

Wasn't The Washington Post the "responsible news organization" that ran with that* story? Yep -- and its ramifications were SO much bigger than this issue.

Kyle Sybesma 6 years, 5 months ago

Love the fact that your keeping us informed. Makes me feel better. Info comes from all different places and we're glad to hear it. The amount of posts positive or negative prove that.

Jeff Coffman 6 years, 5 months ago

We do...Keep your resources close up and just keep filling us in.

aerohawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Matt,

Most of us understand. Thanks for the hard work.

MWShields 6 years, 5 months ago

If there is a way to stay tied to Texas they should do that. Being able to continue to effectively recruit Texas for football will be more important than ever.

Steve Hillyer 6 years, 5 months ago

The recent US News and World report listed the ACC as the best academic conference, as for sports, I agree the BIG 10 is better but not by much, I think as far as football goes the Big 10 is very overrated. I couldn't agree more with your statement (below) that the first invitation we get from a non Big East AQ conference we take, though I think the Big 10 is a better place for us as far as travel and developing regional rivalries, we don't have the luxury to wait.

Steve Gantz 6 years, 5 months ago

Weeks and weeks of endless speculation from fans and even writers who are just trying to make educated guesses on what's going to happen. I'll sure be glad when this whole thing is settled and we can start complaining about how we're going to support our team playing half its' league games in places like Atlanta, Boston, Seattle or Los Angeles.

poet008 6 years, 5 months ago

Pre-emptive strike to keep KState and TTech out?

Just like Pac 12 last year to keep Baylor out?

poet008 6 years, 5 months ago

Also, where is Roy in all of this?

No statement one way or the other seems odd to me.

We need you Roy!!!

ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years, 5 months ago

Roy gets a statue outside of Afh if he comes out today and says the acc taking Kansas would be a great idea.

Matt Tait 6 years, 5 months ago

Have been told by a couple of different people that they firmly believe coach Williams would be good with Kansas coming aboard...

miseryh8r 6 years, 5 months ago

Roy will get no such statue until HCBS has a whole row of them lining the sidewalks into the fieldhouse....

Pitthawk34 6 years, 5 months ago

He should get one anyway and some of our ignorant fans that feel the need to still boo and hold a grudge should become Fizzu fans as that is where those fans really belong.

Ethan Berger 6 years, 5 months ago

calm down champ, he made statements of how was committed to KU and left. I still don't like him because he lied. I love self and am Happy that he is our coach rather then Roy. But Roy still crossed us.

Pitthawk34 6 years, 5 months ago

No Champ I believe you need to calm down! The man put everything he had when he was our coach. Take a look at the players he brought in to our KU family and his record. The man went home so I think we need to get over it. I take it you are perfect and never changed your mind on a family decision ever in your life. Something tells be that you are probably not even old enough to tie your own shoes. Yes you are one of our ignorant fans...Period. It is time to start calling out our ignorant fans.

Eric Dawson 6 years, 5 months ago

It's time to drop the issue and let the wounds heal -- far past time.

aerohawk 6 years, 5 months ago

How much more can people ask from the man than to show up in the NC game sporting a Jayhawk after we destroyed his team in the FF.

Ethan Berger 6 years, 5 months ago

You call me ignorant and yet you attack me with pure ignorance? Let me inform you buddy, that you do not have to like everyone. He still crossed us so I should still like him? I'm thankful for what he did. But a lie is a lie. You obviously are a hypocrite talking about being perfect and I give you a reason you stick out your chest. Learn a lesson champ, you don't have to like everyone. Thomas Jefferson did good things for our nation, but I don't like the man. Before you talk ignorance take a nice look in the mirror.

Ethan Berger 6 years, 5 months ago

plus for being such a smart cookie that you are, I only stated that I do not like him. I'm okay with him getting a statue. Still don't have to like him.

royaljayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Do you really believe Roy wants Kansas in the ACC? I can't imagine he'd be too thrilled about making the trip into AFH. I believe he would help Kansas any way that he could, but probably not if it means he has to play us every year. That sounds like a nightmare to me from his perspective. Just my thoughts..

kj_hawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Personally, I have moved past Roy. I'll take Self anyday. If/shen Roy comes back, I'll give him a standing ovation the first time on the floor and after that it all business.

aerohawk 6 years, 5 months ago

+1, I'll bet Roy would get a standing ovation from everyone if he came back to the field house. Booing would just be lame and immature.

Jeff Coffman 6 years, 5 months ago

Roy showed class when he lost to us, but were the Jayhawk in the Championship game. I'll tell you Roy is a top-notch guy and I don't think there are too many people that don't think that both programs came out ahead by him leaving.

All I have to say is Dickie V, might be wetting his pants with the thought that KU, UNC, Duke, Pitt, and Syracuse would be in the same conference.

jayhawkboogeyman 6 years, 5 months ago

Roy doesn't have a thing to do with it. This is way over the coaches' heads.

phoggedin 6 years, 5 months ago

Matt,

First and foremost, can I just say how nice it is to have realignment rumors that don't begin at Orangebloods?! Way to go NYT.

It seems to me that this latest rumor opens up a ton of possibilities for KU, including both the ACC and the Big 10. Both would be fantastic landing places for KU.

Finally, if it's true that the ACC is after KU and UT, that really complicates things for the Pac, which covets UT. Do the Pac 12 presidents really vote for the OK schools if they know for certain that the Longhorns aren't coming? I'm not so sure.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

Yeah, as Tait responded, it would be hard to turn the ACC down with Texas. Thinking selfishly, one would have to assume our Texas pipeline get emboldened while Missouri's would start to dwindle.

If the PAC offers us and MU or us and KSU, however, it could get real interesting. And still, there's the B1G playing the quiet gunslinger role, not making any sudden moves, looking cool as a cucumber. Something tells me they aren't going to sit, especially as they start to see their possible targets come off the board.

DallasJayhawk1 6 years, 5 months ago

I thought the whole goal of conference re-alignment is about football revenue. If ACC were to add Cuse and Pitt those are b-ball schools. And if FSU does indeed go to the SEC that really only leaves VaTech left in the ACC as the only perennial football power (unless you add Texas and we all know Miami will have sanctions). ACC has always been a hoops conference.

kj_hawk 6 years, 5 months ago

I realize that this may be just wishful thinking, but a win over GT could plant a fresh seed for KU in ACC country today!

Rock Chalk!!

sevenyearhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Except that Georgia Tech is likely going to the B1G (whatever) ...

utahjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Not so sure since ACC is moving to a $20MM exit fee. Substantial for any school.

Kyle Crenshaw 6 years, 5 months ago

Living in ACC country halfway between UVA and VA Tech I would love KU in the ACC. Lets do that!

Sean Rodger 6 years, 5 months ago

I totally disagree with the people that think the Pac-12 is the best option. How in the world do you figure? You add two extra hours at least due to the time zone, then factor in the mileage traveled, and also adding more days away from the classroom for the student-athletes. The most common sense move would be the Big 10 - add in KU-ksu-mu- and isu. You have natural rivalries with KU-ksu, KU-mu, Iowa-isu, mu-Illinois, etc. Keeps the geographical location in the center of the U.S. I absolutely hate the fact that all the games are going east or west. We lose our identity in the midwest. Obviously the Big 10 would have to want the rest of us, and I don't understand why. Granted its about football, but maybe-just maybe joining the Big 10 would force KU to upgrade the football program to new heights. Just my two cents, for what its worth.

DanHogan95 6 years, 5 months ago

This MSU grad agrees with all of those great rivalries in the western half of the conference, with one exception. Everything I see out there says ISU doesn't really fit. Apparently, even Iowa wouldn't want them in.

The B1G focus right now has to be playing its cards right to watch Notre lame finally come around. Watching the Big East become a bit more unstable might help with that a bit. Watching all other conferences go to 16 would do more, I would think.

Jayhawk444 6 years, 5 months ago

Interesting comment about Iowa/ISU. I've been wondering about that, especially since virtually noone is talking about it. I had a concern that Iowa would lobby for ISU's inclusion in any BiG expansion, perhaps at KU's expense. But your comments indicate otherwise. I have to wonder, though, why would Iowa not want them in? Is it the AAU thing only?

DanHogan95 6 years, 5 months ago

Tried to find a reference, but no luck. I think Iowa dominates recruiting there and doesn't want to give ISU the advantage. That's the direct conflict.

I think academically the fit isn't great either. But more importantly they don't bring in enough cash to pull their weight. The equal revenue sharing would have ISU taking revenue away from the cash cows in the conference.

They don't bring in TV markets that aren't already dominated by Iowa. From what I read, this is still a down-side of KU/KSU/Mizz compared to eastern schools. Any school that has the Big Ten thinking NY region has everyone drooling over that market.

Eric Dawson 6 years, 5 months ago

ISU has been an AAU member since 1958, so that is not an issue.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

First of all, I think everyone is on board that if the B1G offers, you go, we're just not repeating it because the B1G hasn't tipped their hand and KU isn't high on their projected list, and that goes quadruple for KSU and ISU. If KU gets an invite there, they will be the 16th team with MU as #15 and then two schools to the east or Texas-Notre Dame, if an arrangement can be made. Its not just football, its also market value, especially for the B1G and its BTN network. ISU and KSU (and really KU) don't offer that market share. KU only gets in as a basketball bonus and chance to shore up the KC market.

As to your objection to the PAC, here is how in the world you figure: The time zone thing is overblown. You would probably be put in pods with the Oklahoma schools, so that's three games in our region. You would play a different pod each year, that's two more in your region. Then, you have maybe one or two crossover games, at least one is in your region. The remaining 2-3 games you play away will probably be at start times that take advantage of the central time zone. The PAC wants central time zone teams so they can feature their west coast teams in central time zone slots. When you add that to the absolutely huge profits from playing in the PAC and the fact they will build a regional network for you, the PAC is a fantastic option if it becomes available. They get 21 million per school per year from TV, and the projection from the regional network pool in 4-5 years is 14 million/yr/school at the low end. 35 million a year is a damn good reason to consider the PAC.

Jayhawk444 6 years, 5 months ago

I disagree that the time zone issue isn't a big deal. And it has nothing to do with the games KU plays in. It has to do with the ones they don't play in - those meaningful conference games that you want to watch. Like Stanford and Oregon playing for the right to face OU in the Championship Game, or UCLA and Arizona tipping off in a battle for the tournament #2 seed behind KU. Those games will still be played in the middle of the night here in KS and on the East coast.

utahjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

I don't think so. For truly important PAC conference games, those games will be cherry-picked on a weekly basis and slotted into national games of the week with times suitable for nation-wide viewing.

Sean Rodger 6 years, 5 months ago

Um, ok - you scheduled the football. Now tackle volleyball, cross-country, basketball (20+ games), tennis, track. baseball, debate, etc. It affects more than just football. Football is the reason for this mess, but it isn't the only thing to deal with either. Traveling expenses, hotels, food, etc.

DallasJayhawk1 6 years, 5 months ago

It won't be a 2 hour time difference--that's why they want to have regional pods so teams are close together in time zone difference. If we were to go to the Pac-12 let's say with OU, OSU and Mizzery we would be in the eastern division with the 2 AZ schools, CU and Utah most likely. Very rarely would you have to travel to Seattle, etc. All the conferences are going to have time zone/travel issues to some extent if conference re-alignment happens.

LSHawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Yesterday poor KU had no where to go and according to the all knowing SI writer we were going to be left out in the cold because football is driving the realignment and our stadium wasnt big enough. Now the ACC is calling because of our basketball program and now even the Big 10??? I for one am tired of all this guessing, which is exactly what it is.....we"ll all know more after OU and Texas boards meet Monday, I for one am giving it a rest till then.

championhawks 6 years, 5 months ago

IMO, the Big 10 is playing the sit and wait game b/c they could probably get whoever they wanted if they offered them membership. Academically and athletically they are very good / great and they have the Big 10 network which I have heard brings in a lot of money. They also have member schools located in more convenient locations for all the schools possibly looking for a new conference.

My guess (which really means nothing, I know!) is that the Big 10 has ranked the institutions that they would like to invite if they expand and are just waiting until something happens to send out those invitations.

DanHogan95 6 years, 5 months ago

I bet there isn't anything agreed upon throughout or it would go public in about 3.5 seconds. I bet just about every prez and board member has a list in his head and ready to go.

Don't forget ND plays a big role in that too. If they think taking a Big East school gets ND to finally jump on board, that brings that school up higher in that ranking.

Kyle Sybesma 6 years, 5 months ago

Agree, I would love to see KU in the Big 10 but I don't they'll show their cards till the end and KU can't wait that long. I just hope we don't get left out to dry and the Big 10 decides not to expand. Leaving us with ISU and KSU to join with a depleted Big East.

If there is any talk about expanding the Big 10 it'll start with ND. Maybe these talks have already started.

Kenny Terry 6 years, 5 months ago

This all sounds contingent on what becomes of boc meetings that Oklahoma and Texas are scheduled to have on Monday. Whatever happens I just want Ku to be in a strong stable BCS conference.

Ethan Berger 6 years, 5 months ago

FSU, Miami, Va Tech and UT as the football powers and UNC, DUKE, PITT, CUSE, KU and UT as the basketball powers. This would be so much fun. It puts the ACC number 1 in basketball and a close 2 in football. Of course Miami is already in free fall. Notice how the same schools don't repeat beside UT. It will be a very balanced conf, a very good academic conf, traveling will be a pain but it could help. We keep Texas high schools eye, and we get alot of east coast exposure.

Pitthawk34 6 years, 5 months ago

The administration needs to come out and say something with what all is going on. I am not asking them to be specific but at least let the fanbase have a sense of calm. Just dont know what to believe anymore. Just throw us a bone, anything that can make us fan at least feel secure to some degree.

Ryan Gerstner 6 years, 5 months ago

No, they don't need to say anything. See Mizzou last year. They just need to keep working hard to take care of KU. I'd love to know all the details of everything going on because this impacts KU so significantly, but we don't need to know until it's done. Even then, we won't know everything that happened.

utahjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Agreed, Pitt. It wouldn't be the Mizzou approach last year, 20, just a generic statement to let the KU faithful know that BGL/SZ are putting everything they have into putting KU into the best possible conference.

I just hope our final destination doesn't come down to a reason like BGL having worked at UNC, which puts us in the ACC. I don't think this serves KU's overall interests. If so, good thing our chancellor wasn't from Hawaii, which might put us in the WAC.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 5 months ago

I think their "bone" has been that we are in a good situation.

I'm comfortable with the silence because, in this cutthroat world of college realignment, I'm not sure I want anybody seeing our cards.

I have warmed to BGL and Zenger over the last six months, and actually, I am glad she is from North Carolina simply because it means she has no emotional ties to keeping us locked in a bad situation for "tradition."

I'd say let's wait to pass judgement until this is all over. My feeling is that we are in a good spot, but a few things have to fall in line before we announce anything.

Off topic, but damn that was a good catch, they better not overturn that.

aerohawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Just a thought, maybe Matt is getting information from them.

miseryh8r 6 years, 5 months ago

Big ten would still be my favorite landing spot should the big 12 fall but ACC is still a better option than the big east.....wonder what ol' Roy is thinking? And I would love to throw down with the dookies every year

blackhawkjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

ACC=Terrible idea. Makes no sense from any angle. Let's hope that the people who make boat loads of money to make smart decisions for KU pass on this ridiculous idea.

Pitthawk34 6 years, 5 months ago

So Mountain West or a Cherry picked Big East is better. Sorry but we dont have a lot of options and must embrace a secure conference with BCS standing that will fit our academic interests. I just see no way the big 10 would be interested but I hope I am wrong.

Ethan Berger 6 years, 5 months ago

FSU, Miami, Va Tech and UT as the football powers and unc, duke, pitt, cuse, ku and UT as the basketball powers. This would be so much fun. It puts the ACC number 1 in basketball and a close 2 in football. Of course Miami is already in free fall. Notice how the same schools don't repeat beside UT. It will be a very balanced conf, a very good academic conf, traveling will be a pain but it could help. We keep Texas high schools eye, and we get alot of east coast exposure.

Here is one angle for ya

Kyle Sybesma 6 years, 5 months ago

The only thing that doesn't make sense is geography. The final power conferences will be ACC, B1G, SEC and the PAC12. We don't belong in the SEC. The B1G isn't interested at this point. The PAC is a good option but the east coast is so much more appealing. The ACC isn't such a power football conference that we'd be overwhelmed but is a basketball powerhouse that would give us multiple recruiting advantages. East coast is always better from a TV and exposure standpoint. Other than geography give me a reason why the ACC "makes no sense from any angle."

blackhawkjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

To follow-up, I foresee people making panic choices on behalf of KU in some misguided effort to keep us associated with "elite" schools. I then foresee schools like KSU taking their time, taking a smart approach and ending up in an overall better, more localized league in which they prosper.

How does Boise State get so much attention? Play in a weak conference and beat the crap out them all year long every year. Is anyone paying attention?

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

KSU isn't taking their time, their praying they end up with something. Go see how much Boise St makes each year from their conference payout and then get back to us.

Hank Cross 6 years, 5 months ago

According to this report, Pitt and Syracuse have already applied to the ACC.

"The Atlantic Coast Conference has been approached by at least 10 schools about possible membership, a group that includes the Big East's Pitt and Syracuse, both of which have tendered letters of application, a high-ranking ACC official said Saturday morning."

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6980644/pitt-syracuse-apply-join-acc-ranks-source-says

The BE has not denied the story. http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/47176/syracuse-pitt-on-the-way-out

If that has happened, I would seriously start moving up the chances of going to the B1G for a number of reasons. First, if ND doesn't have a place to park its non-FB teams, it's going to need a conference. The only logical candidate is the B1G. Second, there aren't enough good teams that the B1G would be interested in from the BE. The B1G isn't going to take Cincy, Ville, or Wva, They might take Rutgers. Obviously the B1G would love UT, but just like the P12, the LHN is a deal breaker. That leaves KU/MU as really the only available, viable teams to go to 16 with ND, Rutger, KU and MU.

The hang up with the B1G though is whether the schools want to split up the CIC money.

DanHogan95 6 years, 5 months ago

I'd think the chances of UT going to the Big-10 are near zero. Anything that pushes towards an agreement between the two is more likely to happen out west. I hope you are right about ND and Mizz/KU/KSU. Those three are a better fit than Cincy/WVA/Rutgers. But the schools to the west don't bring the TV markets than the ones out east.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

If this is true, Monday is huge. More so at Texas than Oklahoma. Remember, the B1G rumors for Notre Dame were connected to Texas, so if Notre Dame is going it is likely as a brokered deal with Texas since they both have "school contracts" with NBC and ESPN. If Syracuse and Pitt are going to the ACC, that takes away from B1G targets. It might improve MU-KU chances versus Rutgers.

If the ACC is making this move, they must have some type of plan for #15 and 16. Texas and KU would seem a good fit from their perspective, but they have to have a backup plan.

If Texas goes to B1G, and KU doesn't get the invite and the ACC doesn't want KU without Texas, then the PAC should open up for us with either MU or KSU. I can't imagine the PAC really wants to stop at 14. If Texas decides they are going PAC after all and taking Texas Tech with them, this puts us in the most precarious position. We still might be a target as some sort of package with MU unless MU has accepted and SEC invite already. We could be S.O.L. at that point. I think our best options hinge on Texas not giving away their LHN.

Hank Cross 6 years, 5 months ago

Remember last year when someone from Ohio State said UT had a "Tech problem" meaning they had to take TT. Now they've got a "LHN" problem as well. It would be karmic justice if UT's greed as epitomized in the LHN kept them out of the P12 and B1G.

Jack Wilson 6 years, 5 months ago

Don't forget Maryland as a strong Big 10 possibility. Virginia and Ga. Tech are also strong academic institutions that would expand that over discussed "footprint". Maryland, Virginia, Ga. Tech, Missouri. Huge exapansion into major markets. If I'm the Big 10, and can't get ND, this is what I would try to do.

Eric Dawson 6 years, 5 months ago

As noted elsewhere in this blog, the ACC presidents today unanimously agreed to raise the conference exit fees from $12-14M to $20M, and ESPN sources report that Pitt and Syracuse have applied for ACC membership.

Doesn't read to me as if any ACC schools are looking at going anywhere. That's good news for KU's chances in the B1G.

utahjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Yes!!! Just hope we get consideration with the day's developments.

Dan Edwards 6 years, 5 months ago

Cripes this is all getting so crazy. I don't know if any of these "reports" can be taken without gigantic boulders of salt because there's so much "posturing" and ambling for "leverage" from conferences and schools alike. Who knows what is BS and what is just some school/conference trying to bluff or play themselves up.

Oh well, football game today. Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

fundamental 6 years, 5 months ago

Matt,

Let's assume for a moment that the scenario you describe in your 8:26 post actually occurs (Pitt/Syr to ACC, UT & KU follow to make 16). Isn't it still quite likely that the SEC wants to expand by poaching Florida St. or Miami (or both)?

Perhaps this is a preemptive move to get to 16 in the hopes of retaining all their own teams OR perhaps it's a preemptive move to be sure they have 14 after they get raided by the SEC?

Just thinking out loud (or something)...

Jayhawk444 6 years, 5 months ago

This looks like the ACC using offense to play defense. Pitt/Syr makes the ACC more attractive to FSU/Miami/VaTech and thus less likely to bolt for SEC. Or at the very least, it makes the ACC a more powerful player in the realignment game even if they suffer some poaching. ACC has played a nice card here, assuming this happens.

hawksfan08 6 years, 5 months ago

If the offer is on the table and the big 12 is really done, you take it and don't think twice. It creates a basketball super conference, a very respectable fball conference with florida st and texas, it opens up recruiting for football in florida and the east coast, you avoid a move west to the PAC. You also join the conference that was rated as the top academic conference. This would be a stunning turn of events. I hate losing the kstate and mizzou rivalries, like really really really hate it. But if this offer is on the table and you turn it down, you better have a guarantee from the B1G because that's the only other even ok situation.

Benjamin Piehler 6 years, 5 months ago

Ok... As much as I'd LOVE KU and Mizzou to go to the B1G.... I think we need to remove it from the table of reasonable expectations. It's like when we got rid of Mangino, and people were saying we needed to get Brian Kelly or Jim Harbaugh... Sure, it'd be nice, but they have to be interested.

I'd be ecstatic in the ACC, even with Texas, I think we should pursue this in case OU and OSU bolt.

Jeff Coffman 6 years, 5 months ago

Today is going to be a good day.

KU looks promising for the ACC or Big Ten both would be acceptable.

KU is going to get a win against an ACC team.

OU is going to treat the Big XII to a historic victory.

I think 6 big 12 teams are on the road today.

rcjh

utahjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Future conference game just started with GT??

Go Hawks!!

ejlumus 6 years, 5 months ago

If 4 - 16 team conferences, my bet is KU, MU, ND to B1G, pick a 4th team from the east.

ejlumus 6 years, 5 months ago

4th team could possibly be the KC Chiefs

Jack Wilson 6 years, 5 months ago

Yea, but I hear they aren't a football-first institution.

MoneyCounter 6 years, 5 months ago

I'm sure the B1G could cover the price of getting Pitt to reverse its ACC decision. Kansas, Missouri, ND, and Pitt in the B1G is good for rivalries, solid on academics, solid on sports, and geographically sensible. All it would require is the B1G being willing to expand.

SEC can then grab Louisville and West Virginia from the Big East, and poach Virginia Tech from the ACC.

ACC, just pruned to 12 by the B1G and SEC, grows to 16 with Rutgers, South Florida, Connecticut, and, because it's a shorter distance than other possibilities, Cincinnati.

PAC goes to 16 with, of course, Texas/Tech/OK/OKSt.

The Mountain West patches together BYU, TCU, Baylor, Kansas State, Houston, and SMU to form the fifth AQ conference.

The four BCS bowls and BCS National Championship fill all ten slots with the #1 & #2 from each of the five AQ conferences through the current 2016 contract, all five conferences automatically splitting the BCS take equally every year.

Come the next contract, the Mountain West is cut out of the system. Instead, the #1s from the four play in the Rose and Orange Bowls with the #2s play in the Fiesta and Sugar Bowls. Then the winners of the Rose and Orange play each other for the national championship.

Jack Wilson 6 years, 5 months ago

Don't think that ACC is dead stable. It is just more stable than the Big East.

A couple rumored Big Ten targets have been Maryland and Virginia (though Virginia may be stuck with Va. Tech).

Big 10 -- adding Maryland, Virginia, Missouri and Georgia Tech -- would take them to 16 and make that conference one that hits in multiple large markets. Rutgers and Notre Dame for as possibilities, too.

I mentioned when all this started that the ACC was a major sleeper for KU that wasn't being talked about .. maybe the most sensible landing spot for KU .. KU basketball and coach Self drive this ship. Thankfully. As a note, over the years,

It is interesting to see that Tait now has the ACC as KU's most likely landing spot. Wow. Someone above mentioned how fun that would be .. Pitt, Syracuse, Duke, UNC, Maryland .. I don't think we'd be whining about east coast bias by ESPN.

I can get excited about the Big 10, ACC, or Pac 12. Let's just get it done. Forget the Big 12. It's over.

Hank Cross 6 years, 5 months ago

The ACC just unanimously raised the exit fees for a conference member to $20 mill, so I doubt the B1G or SEC will be able to fish off that pier. It also severely limits the teams that the B1G can pick up. Other than Rutgers, I don't see a BE FB team that would appeal to the B1G.

As risky as it sounds, I would not buy off on the KU/UT to ACC unless the P12 and B1G were off the table for sure. We would have the 3rd highest BB program in the ACC w/o any real hope of improvement in FB.

Hank Cross 6 years, 5 months ago

At least Beebe has some competition for most clueless commissioner. http://www.dailymail.com/Sports/201109171927

If UT and OU had an ounce of sense they would approach ND, BYU, and TCU. The only reason ND may be an option is b/c the home for their non-FB teams looks like it is going bye-bye. That revitalized B12 could charge more than the ACC.

ejlumus 6 years, 5 months ago

Couldn't agree more, college presidents are lacking common sense.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 5 months ago

The best part of this is that those three all had their meeting, and I'm sure they all agreed to not "poach" from each others conference. Probably one of those "gentleman's agreements" that we got from the SEC.

Swofford had to be laughing when he got out of the meeting with those two. Smiling and thinking, "SWEET! I am in competition with two morons! I got this by default!"

Michael Maris 6 years, 5 months ago

Not so fast on the fact that Notre Dame may lose the Big East for their other sports. Big East was founded as a Basketball Conference. Big East may still survive (as being only a Basketball only conference).

I would NOT be surprised if the Big East Basketball schools stay together and possibly raid the Atlantic 10 conference for some of their basketball schools.

Big East Football schools will be scrambling to find new homes. Rutgers, Cincy, Louisville, S. Florida, U-Conn, TCU and West Virginia. Lets say that the SEC takes W. Virginia (now). Well, that leaves Rutgers (now a target of the B1G) Cincy, Louisville, S. Florida, TCU and U-Conn.

Looking more and more like Cincy, Louisville, TCU and S. Florida are in the same predicament as Kansas, K-State, Baylor and Iowa State.

Now, 8 schools are wondering where the hell are we going to end up at?

Texas what do you really want now? I guess Monday we all will find out more information.

Laurence Cooley 6 years, 5 months ago

am i the only one that is excited about the recruiting possibilities this creates for us? not only do we keep getting texas recruits in football, but now we get more east coast kids (cause that is where a good portion of the bball talent comes from) in bball and promise them a game against unc and duke. we win in two sports here.

i know that some think the idea is dumb because of the travel, but its only one time zone and this will spread the jayhawk brand even further than we are. this totally works in our favor on multiple levels.

if the big ten doesnt give us a call, then i say the acc. the pac is so far and i dont think we fit the pac culture, but we could fit in with the acc crowd pretty easily.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 5 months ago

I have been mulling over this ACC thing, and here are some things I have come up with (I'm not for or against it, but I think if they pull Pitt and Syracuse the Big East has less of a pulse than the Big 12), so here are some thoughts from the Nutz:

  1. Only our two revenue sports would join the conference. It is just simply too far to travel for other sports. My feeling is that a secondary conference would form for the non-revenue sports, or they would all merge with the MVC like some do now.

  2. Our recruiting would be phenomenal not just in basketball but in football. The two greatest football recruiting states? Florida and Texas. Done and done. We wouldn't get the first tier athletes from either state, but we would get a solid share of #2 and #3. We would be the closest in-conference school to UT. There is potential in that.

  3. Basketball would be perhaps the greatest sporting experience on the planet. Roy returning to Allen. Coach K coming to town. Dukie V. being forced by ESPN to come to Lawrence more than once a year. Recruiting up and down the east coast from New York to Miami, over to Atlanta, throughout Texas, and keeping our roots in Chicago.

  4. My feeling is that the Big 10 will move once Syracuse and Pitt go. They have to realize that the landscape is shrinking. Even if OU and UT are slow to move, this might start it without them moving at all. If they intend to snap up the schools they truly want they might have to start the wheels churning. My feeling is KU and Mizzou will get looked at as a package. I could be wrong, but they have to be thinking, "Wait, weren't PItt and Syracuse on OUR radar?"

Discuss!

Laurence Cooley 6 years, 5 months ago

i agree with all of this. if ku/texas doesnt pan out, i think the big ten will look hard at a combo of ku/mu. the big ten wants AAU members and rutgers doesnt add much, not even in the nyc market and a natural rival for penn state is going to the acc.

as soon as pitt and syracuse sign with the acc, i expect the sec, big ten and pac 12 to act almost immediately.

Jeff Coffman 6 years, 5 months ago

I think after today's events I feel so much better about KU's possibilities.

I still haven't figured why there isn't talk of kicking some teams out of the conferences, to make room.

For instance, does NorthWestern really bring that much to the Big10 (I know academics, (but isn't that just academic in this discussion?), and when you think of SEC football do you immediately think of Vandy.

I'm sure there are a few others, but just curious.

Billy Blanks 6 years, 5 months ago

PAC is worst option.

B1G ACC SEC

Of couse PAC is better than being left out.

Georgia_Jayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Well, this game surely isn't going to get us any votes from the ACC schools.

Josh Galler 6 years, 5 months ago

why if this is the Team that KU puts out, it is an auto win LOL

Kristen Downing 6 years, 5 months ago

Maybe some votes if they agree to take UT. They need KU to beat up on. I'm being patient with Gill for only one more year.

Brad Potter 6 years, 5 months ago

I consume a delicious sugary Coak every morning in honor of ol tRoy. I'd hope that one day I get the chance to thank him for my dependence on Coak and giving Jayhawk Nation CB McGrath. Therefore, the prospects of us joining the ACC make me downright giddy, so giddy in fact that I'm currently celebrating with 64oz of... You guessed it, Coak

LAJayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Wow, things definitely do turn on a dime in this realignment madness.

And disregard the game today. It seems clear to me that the ACC would be targeting KU for basketball.

Gotta say, I'm not thrilled about all the games in the East, but the ACC is a very, very good place to land if this happens......

LAJayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Matt,

You are doing a ridiculously great job. That being said, I almost don't want to read these blogs anymore, because this whole thing is just too effing crazy. I think it is actually causing me bodily pain. Can everyone just freakin' realign already so I can move on with my life?

[sigh]... the sad thing is I said "almost." Zero chance I stop refreshing your blog 75 times a day.....

Brian Skelly 6 years, 5 months ago

First and foremost... kudos to keeping on top of the action Matt. Or at least the 'voices' out there with this. It's mind numbing reading it, and must be doubly (or more) hard to be one trying to check it out and verify it.

The reality is, I feel better about the situation now than I did 24 hours ago with this 'Pitt/Syracuse' move.

Personally, I think the Big 10 would be best for KU. But that doesnt mean that option is there. Of course, the odds may have just increased with the recent moves by Pitt and Syracuse.

The ACC idea is intriguing. Minus geography (which seems to have gone out the window with all of this madness) the fit in the ACC seems damn near spot on. Strong hoops, strong academics, football mediocrity. IF it works out that way, it'd be hard to turn the offer down. One thing that is interesting is the fact that the ACC just jacked up their 'exit fee' - to like 20mil fish or something. No one is leaving there... although I wouldnt be surprised if FSU is still an SEC target regardless.

The Pac-16 idea doesnt do much for me, or most of us I wouldnt think. While I do believe KU aligns well academically with them, I cant envision the travel for them being good at all. Remember how much of an 'outpost' Colorado was? Think of that plus several more hours travel time.

At least if the move is East, it'll be one time zone difference (not two). Plus TV is dead on the other side of the mountains. TV viewing drops in general the farther west you go. Ask any one in the TV industry about that. Gotta give props to the new Pac commish for sacking up and getting several billion for their TV deals.

More than anything, obviously we hope the move is best for KU. Lets hope its figured out in the not do distant future.

jgkojak 6 years, 5 months ago

This is good news - I'd say in fact that this greatly increases the chance KU does NOT land in the Big East.

Why?

The Big 10 has 6 schools they want: 1. Notre Dame (they'll come eventually) 2. Pitt (to the ACC?) 3. Rutgers (they'll come gladly) 4. Maryland (if the ACC is 16 strong, why would they leave?) 5. Mizzou 6. Kansas 7 Georgia Tech-- I don't buy it - yeah, Atlanta is nice, but talk about a cultural mis-fit 8 Virginia - they'd never leave the ACC

So.. If Pitt and Maryland are out, Kansas may be the 16th team.

LAJayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

GTech is a solid academic school and Atlanta would be a huge pick up for the Big 10. It does make sense whether it would happen or not.

Jayhawk444 6 years, 5 months ago

LJW - the last few days have made me remember how much I really, really despise the threaded format for this comment section. I really hate coming back after a few hours, or even a few minutes, and having to start reading the comment section from the beginning every time just to see if there are any new comments peppered in among ones I have read before. It would be so much easier if this site were like most others out there that just add new comments to the end of the comment section. Then I could simply start reading where I left of previously. Please change it back.

Otherwise - I really appreciate the work Matt has put in keeping us informed on all this. Thanks

DCJayhawk0208 6 years, 5 months ago

Have you seen the commenting on SBNation? It's threaded (which I love), but you can go forward or back (and mark as read) comments by using keyboard shortcuts. For example, if you hit "z", it marks the comment you're on as read and moves to the next unread comment. Check out RockChalkTalk.com to see it in action.

rob4lb 6 years, 5 months ago

First the good news. It's raining in Houston!! We have had an historic drought. The Syracuse-Pitt to ACC is surprising preemptive strike. Most of the articles I have read make no mention of eventually including KU. I know it is all speculation. Looking objectively, I'm not sure what KU brings to the ACC. We know what our strengths are: Basketball. Does the ACC need to elevate it's basketball profile? No and if they add Syracuse and Pitt, they have elevated the profile.

Is the ACC good for KU basketball? No. I've mentioned before as have others that AT BEST, KU will be the third program in the ACC after Duke and UNC.

Finally, the projections of adding UT and KU really isolated both schools geographically. I'm not buying into the ACC being a better alternative than the Pac-12 or Big 10 for KU.

mikehawk 6 years, 5 months ago

In the totality the moment, I think we take the ACC deal. But I do agree with others, that if Syracuse and Pitt make the jump to the ACC, the Four Super Conference race is on and KU and MU stock just shot up from a Big 10 perspective. Sounds like the ACC is thinking their superconference is a BB super conference, and KU would do well to be in it. It is not designed to be a football first superconference and wouldn't need to be with that lineup. We fit better in the ACC than Texas. We go PAC Whatever and no one on the East coast gets to see us play, especially not young recruits. I still say Texas is becoming more and more radioactive as conferences may be reluctant to take on their baggage as the talk of arrogance and ego spreads. Be the first on your block to be in a brand new 16 team, good fit, superconference, and why would you want or need Texas? I still think it is possible Oklahoma AND Texas looks over the edge of the abyss and decides it may be further across there than they thought. The irony...the Big 12, before all of this started, would have made a perfect core to become one of the Four 16 Team Superconferences. That opportunity is all but lost. Stick a fork in it. The Big 12 is dead.

rob4lb 6 years, 5 months ago

I could see this scenario happening: OU and UT kiss and make up. With the disintegration of the Big East, the Big 12 adds Louisville, TCU and BYU to get to 12 and Dysfunctional Land continues to live.

I don't know if this move by the ACC solidifies the conference. If the SEC is serious about expanding to other states, it would be hard to imagine anyone jumping if the conference appears solid. Why would Va Tech or NC State move if the conference is stable. The Big 10 could poach Maryland, Virginia, Ga Tech or UNC. Of those teams, Maryland would seem most likely.

Jeff Kilgore 6 years, 5 months ago

I would have believed this even a week ago, but I'm getting the feeling that OU truly resents getting poked in the eye by both A&M and UT. They're big boys on the turf, and probably want to rid themselves of the embarrassment that this conference has become. Just my opinion.

texashawk10 6 years, 5 months ago

To me, the 14th SEC team is either going to be Missouri or NC State. If the Big 12 survives, they will go after NC State. The SEC wants to get into new markets which eliminates FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, and Louisville. UNC and Duke are too good academically to join the SEC, VT and WVU don't add enough TV sets to justify an invite to the SEC (although if the SEC chooses athletic quality, VT and WVU re-enter the picture) so that leaves NC State. Raleigh-Durham is a top 30 media market and NC State is the 3rd largest school in the ACC behind FSU and Maryland with 33,000 students so there is a market there for NC State.

If the Big 12 dissolves, Missouri is going to have a decision to make. They are a good academic school and the SEC isn't exactly considered an academic powerhouse so you have to wonder based on their academic interests if Brady Deaton is serious when he says Missouri isn't interested in the SEC, but who knows if the money the SEC can offer will make Missouri want to abandon pursuing a good academic league such as the PAC or Big 10.

blindrabbit 6 years, 5 months ago

You say if KU were in the ACC that we would be third in the pecking order behind Duke and Tarheels. I doubt it, maybe 5th or 6th; your counting out Georgia Tech, Maryland, Virginia and N.C. State all who have had championship quality teams, maybe not in the last few years. This potential move for KU is the worst of all the possibilities excluding the SEC. No where to go but down in BB and no real chance of improvement in football. Agree, Longhorns are radioactive, they will try to muscle out any competition by whatever means, so Big12 is probably not a good permanent home for us. Big10 and PAC12 are best long term options from academic as well as sports POV, and they know how to share the wealth with their members. Oh. BigEast is dead!

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

The ACC just upped their exit fees, which means they must have had a meeting. In this meeting, they must have discussed adding Syracuse-Pitt. This doesn't sound like a conference that is ready to tear itself apart. It sounds like a conference that knows it will have a new deal of some sort provided it gets certain teams. I don't think the ACC is an easy target any longer.

The real question becomes, "Who strikes first?" ACC, PAC, or B1G? Any of those three and I am extremely happy. Each one has specific perks to it that are different than the others as well as detractions. We just have to have our program in a major.

Selfishly, I want the PAC because I could go see KU play more.

Culturally, I want to see the B1G as I think it will at least preserve KU-MU and then you have the academic bonuses.

Competitively, if it is with Texas, I want us in the ACC. We get to keep Texas recruiting, we get to open Florida recruiting, we're in an easier football conference, it would be the best basketball conference, we get better exposure to east coast recruits, still sit well with midwest recruits, and are an attractive alternative to west coast kids who want east coast exposure. Face it, if the ACC takes us and Texas, it will effectively kill west coast hoops. They'll have Arizona and UCLA most years. Top recruits will want to play where the attention is and KU will be in a unique position to take best advantage of it.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

This third to sixth banana talk is ridiculous. First off, Duke is a Coach K retirement away from facing a serious drop off. Anyone who pain any attention to the ACC last year knows that conference was the least competitive it has been in years. Adding Syracuse and Pitt will help and Maryland will rebound, but if anyone seriously thinks KU won't be right there, they are sorely mistaken. Those teams have to come to Lawrence as well.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 5 months ago

Very glad somebody else pointed this out.

Duke's history extends from Coach K to present. He is getting to retirement age, as is our guy Roy. Boeheim is like ninety.

If Self is on board you can figure we will be doing quite well in that conference.

It could turn out in five to ten years that Turgeon would be our biggest opponent.

Jeff Kilgore 6 years, 5 months ago

And Boeheim's wife is like 50, a cougarish 50. Rahr!

Spencer Goff 6 years, 5 months ago

Haha, I laughed at this.

My school is about to be in the Missouri Valley, and yet we can share laughs over Boeheim's wife. It's good to be the king!

Spencer Goff 6 years, 5 months ago

OK, so I have been doing the homework on mileage comparing the Pac 12 to the ACC. My first impression of the ACC possibiity was, "Wow we are not close to those schools." However, after comparisons, it is really not as extreme in comparison as I thought.

For the Pac 16 I included Oklahoma, Oklahoma St. and Texas (if that were the scenario as reported).

For the ACC I included Pitt, Syracuse, and Texas (if that were the scenario as reported).

Here is how it looked:

ACC:

Syracuse = 1,167 Pitt = 882 Boston College = 1,474 Maryland = 1,113 Clemson = 950 Duke = 1,087 North Carolina = 1,084 Florida State = 1,086 Georgia Tech = 840 Miami = 1,502 N.C. State = 1,114 Virginia = 1,039 Virginia Tech = 930 Wake Forest = 1,008 Texas = 701 Grand Total = 15,977

Pac 16:

Utah = 1,071 Colorado = 586 Oklahoma = 331 Oklahoma St. = 281 Arizona = 1,202 Arizona St. = 1,219 USC = 1,541 UCLA = 1,541 Stanford = 1,836 California = 1,797 Washington = 1,866 Washington St. = 1,646 Oregon = 1,811 Oregon St. 1,881 Texas = 701 Grand Total = 19,310

Spencer Goff 6 years, 5 months ago

Yes, the Pac 12 would give us four close opponents in Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., Colorado, and Texas. Utah is about average, but after that every school is EXTREMELY far from Lawrence.

With the ACC it was far more mediated. We see two extremes (which are 300-400 miles under the extremes in the Pac 16) but for the most part the schools are in that 1k range.

I think we can all agree the Big 10 would make more sense geographically, but looking at those mileages, coupled with staying in the CST and EST I am starting to warm up to the idea of going to the ACC.

Ryan Mullen 6 years, 5 months ago

The furthur you travel in car or airplane the more costly it is. Not just for the University but fans as well.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 5 months ago

I didn't assume anything, you did.

Those numbers are as they are in the real world. They do not take into account mountains, weather, or time zones.If you believe I think the KU football or basketball teams will be driving to those locations you are on cocaine.

Not saying I care which way KU goes, just saying that the perception that the ACC schools are somehow further away is a misconception.

Ryan Mullen 6 years, 5 months ago

Since I really don't want to do this. What would it look like if we stayed in the big 12 with our current teams plus BYU.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 5 months ago

I was about to get that all added up, but honestly, I have no passion for staying in the Big 12.

Since A&M was the extreme in that league, and we lost them (allegedly), I would guess it would be around 3,000 with the remaining 8 schools and us.

But, are we gaining much staying there and being in a dead meat conference that is basically Texas and friends? I think our football and basketball teams will be better off in the Pac 16 or ACC, regardless of travel. Our nonrevenue teams will probably form up a secondary conference (some already are).

Tough to say.

Michael Maris 6 years, 5 months ago

Might as well figure Duke, UNC-Chapel Hill and NC State at the same distance. Cause, you are going to fly into the Raligh-Durham Airport for a visit to all 3 Campuses in the Triangular Metro area.

83jayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

We unfortunately need to jump on an ACC or PAC bid "if" we are luck enough to get it. I am not convinced we have a bid anywhere. Looks like he Big East is very sick as well.

If we are fortunate to get a bid we need to jump onit immediately. This is going to be musical chairs and we are likely to be one of the very last teams that gets in a superconference if indeed this is where it is all going.

I hope the Big 12 stays together and adds, but that is looking more and more iffy.

Steve Brown 6 years, 5 months ago

Crimson and Clover: this stuff reminds me of sophomore year when I so wanted to go to prom, the theme that year was Crystal Blue Persuasion.

I wanted to go with Big Ted, he was nice, had a huge Oldsmobile, but I thought he wanted Betty. So I started flirting with Pat the western guy. He showed no interest, he was too into his Mustang. As I was aftraid I would be left with Mac, I had Betty ask Al if he had a date, then my mom overhead me and said if I did got to prom with a guy she didn't know, I had to take my sister Kitty along as a double date. So unfair. I watched the phone for days.

I'm not tellin' how this turned out, yet that night I just fell head over the Z28 yellow Camaro with black interior and according to Veronica 16 vestal virgins headed for the west coast after the last song: A Whiter Shade of Pale.

the sun is a risen, a day new is comin' people are changin' ain't it beautiful. crystal blue persuasion

note: if you aren't a child of the 60.s don't even try to make any sense of this post. Paris this is for you.

ParisHawk 6 years, 5 months ago

My high school prom I kid you not we had Ike & Tina Turner and the Ikettes! When Tina took the stage dancing stopped and we just picked our jaws up off the ground and didn't move for an hour.

Other than that, all my favorites either broke up or died by 1970.

If Ike were still around he'd

ParisHawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Where'd that last fragment come from? Ike R.I.P.

Steve Brown 6 years, 5 months ago

Paris: youtube these three: whiter shade of pale, crimson and clover and crystal blue persuasion they will give you all the clues you need to decipher. I just didn't have any more Bevo and Boomer phone intercepts, so felt as if we were waiting on a date for prom. So you got this dribble instead. I'll do better for you 'morrow. 7 degrees of separation from your prom to JayZee Kayne and yes, the lady is expecting.

FarSideHawk 6 years, 5 months ago

How is ACC so bullet-proof in all of this?

I don't buy KU being in the middle of the pack in that leage and would actually love for KU to be in the ACC. Tougher competition will only make KU better.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

ACC was formed over academic interests and so there is a high priority on it. ACC also has a completely separate network deal with ESPN for their basketball alone. So, if you fancy yourself an academically prestigious basketball school, where do you want to go? If you are one of the few football powers, do you want to run through the B1G or SEC gauntlet, or win the ACC every other year? Now add in markets at Boston, New York, Pittsburgh, The Beltway Area, Raleigh-Durham, Atlanta, and Miami. Those are huge markets dominated by basketball fans.

Now throw the major Texas draw known as the Longhorns on top of that. That's why, if the rumors are true, the ACC becomes one of the Big 4 by adopting the opposite strategy everyone else has: Go big on basketball and have "just enough" football to have a school in the national title chase. It wasn't like the Big XII was sending multiple schools to the Title Game. It was either OU or Texas. If the ACC can make that Texas or FSU, they would be thrilled!

This is exactly why I never understood the B1G's fascination with Rutgers. The New York market doesn't watch Rutgers. They watch the Giants and the Jets. If they're going to watch college hoops, they're going to watch Syracuse. They'll get higher subscription rates marketing Syracuse in basketball against KU, UNC, Duke, Maryland, Pitt and Texas then they'll ever get marketing Rutgers getting pounded by some B1G team.

The South and the Midwest are the only two true college football crazy regions. Everyone else plays, maybe has a dominant team or two, but that's it. On the east coast in college sports, its basketball. The ACC just looked at the real percentages of those TV markets and figured out the best wait to take advantage of them.

Benjamin Piehler 6 years, 5 months ago

The ACC just raised the amount of $ to exit the conference up to 20 million also, in an effort to prevent teams from jumping ship.

westlaw 6 years, 5 months ago

While watching the ND/MSU game the ticker said the Syracuse and Pitt just applied to join the ACC

FLJHK 6 years, 5 months ago

There is great allure to the ACC but I find it difficult to believe that there is any credibility to this rumor. I don't see the upside for the ACC.

parrothead8 6 years, 5 months ago

If Syracuse, Pitt, KU, and Texas all join the ACC, there would no longer be any argument over which is the best basketball conference in all the land. We might see a Final Four made up of teams from one conference, and it might happen every year.

DCJayhawk0208 6 years, 5 months ago

Especially when you consider at least half of Kentucky's Final Fours will be eventually wiped from the books. Heheheh.

Benjamin Piehler 6 years, 5 months ago

ESPN is reporting that at least 10 universities have applied to join the ACC... looks like we've got some competition.

Benjamin Piehler 6 years, 5 months ago

Correction: 10 universities have "approached" the ACC about possible membership.

jgkojak 6 years, 5 months ago

WOW -- good news for KS.

The B10 wants Rutgers because its an AAU school ranked pretty hih academically and gets them on NYC area cable systems.

They will not take UConn as they are not an AAU school.

That means they - 1) raid the ACC (and make the schools pay $20 million) for MD or VA or GT (highly unlikely) or

2) They look West for two additional AAU schools (assuming they bring in Notre Dame and Rutgers). Hmmmm...

3) Choices: Kansas, Missouri and Iowa St. Iowa does NOT want t to compete w/Iowa St for recruits and are happy to let their BCS status lapse.

Our chances of being in th B10 just went up significantly.

blindrabbit 6 years, 5 months ago

Us Kansans don't seem to get this realignment business. As soon as someone gets the soapbox to let BB slip into the conversation it happens; this is all about football! The fact that Kansas has a top flight BB program and yet gets little respect or attention in this business should turn the lights on as to what is really happening.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

That's before the ACC got involved. The ACC is a basketball conference, and they are betting that most of the sports fans who are college sports fans on the east coast, are basketball fans. So, "blindrabbit" maybe you need to see what is going on here. Someone in the ACC has run the true numbers behind the east coast TV markets and determined there is value in the basketball if you find the right combination.

jgkojak 6 years, 5 months ago

By the way... wonder what UConn is thinking about all this?

Seems like- since they're not an AAU school, if they don't get the ACC, they're not getting the B10, and if the Big East goes away... ouch!

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

Let's take a step back for a second and look at the "kiss and make up scenario". Suppose OU and Texas look at this ACC move and say, "If we stick together, we could actually build a competitive conference." I suppose it is possible. If Texas and OU stay together, Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia, UConn, TCU, Rutgers and South Florida are all looking for safe landings. Might as well throw BYU in there, too.

Can you pick 3 up and go to 12? Seven and go to 16? In the rush to jump, I suppose it is possible Texas and OU might take a second look at this.

jhox 6 years, 5 months ago

The ACC is being incredibly smart here. Rather than sit around and wait to see who the Big 10 or SEC poaches, they'e taking the initiative. I see this as a very good thing for KU. If the ACC takes us, that's great. If not, they will have likely poached the favored targets of the Big 10 and SEC. The Big 10, while still a long shot, is at least slightly more likely than it was before the ACC stepped up, and the Big 10 would clearly be the best home for KU. I could live with either outcome (ACC or Big 10). Let's hope one of those comes to fruition. My guess is that KU is waiting for OU and OSU to leave the conference, to limit their own potential legal liability. By late next week, we should know a whole lot more about our future.

As for the guy hassling Tait, if Tait was reporting the information as fact rather than rumors, then maybe the guy would be right to be complaining, but Tait has never presented it as anything more than a possibility. These sound like educated rumors, if you will. He's presenting them as nothing more.

Keep up the great work, Matt. You are the most valuable sports journalist at the LJW, by a long shot. You have also been the best reporter nationally on the situation, and have done a great job of keeping us informed.

blindrabbit 6 years, 5 months ago

CalHawk: Know the ACC only too well, season ticket holder at Maryland and Cole Fieldhouse for many years during Lefty Drizzel/ Len Bias time; also attended many games at UVA.. Being a KU grad. still say that is not a good move for us or our long term well being. And culturally it is not a good fit either

Agree, Many of the original schools in the ACC were academic powerhouses including North Carolina, Duke, Virginia and Wake Forest; but not North Carolina State, Maryland, Clemson, nor South Carolina (departed for SEC). Also they have added Virginia Tech, Miami and Florida State (all of these are not considered top flight from an academic POV). Now Boston College, Syracuse and Pitt.

Like either B1G or PAC12!; as long as Longhorns are not a partner.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

Georgia Tech ranks 35 and Miami ranks 50, Clemson 61, Virginia Tech 71 and NC St 88. Even FSU was at 102. (According to US News and World Report last year.) By comparison, KU is 96, MU is tied with FSU at 102. ISU was tied with NC St at 88 and ranked 5th in the Big XII. Texas was highest at 47. A&m was our next highest, just ahead of Clemson at 61.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

Matt, if you're not too busy writing a "woe is KU football article", I would appreciate your perspective on this:

Exactly how much is Texas really interested in going to the ACC if it means they will be the only Texas school there? I mean, they wouldn't even be getting a midwest regional if it is KU and UT. Is Texas that impressed with the ACC to basically go there with KU?

Ryan Mullen 6 years, 5 months ago

When the going gets tough Calhawk gets going. Signed theshiver.com

83jayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

According to latest Orangeblood, Texas is not in the loop for ACC. The only way I see KU to the ACC is if KU and Mizzou go together.

Looks more and more like KU will be left out. UT/TT to PAC.

Most likely for KU is that Big East leftover, Big 12 leftover's, TCU, Houston form a new Big 12.

The Big 12 should have been aggessive when CU and NU left but UT didn't want that. Now the light is dimming for KU.

lv_jhwk 6 years, 5 months ago

Since the ACC has evidently taken first initiative (whoda thunk), why would they necessarily stop there? Why not grab Rutgers (strong academics, decent football in some years recently) and save UConn (who at least fits the "basketball first, football second" MO)? This would not only maintain a strictly East Coast presence but moreso to keep the B1G from being able to establish anything similar.

Then again, logic has been used little in this realignment game, so why would it start now?!

LogicMan 6 years, 5 months ago

Local NBC TV just reported that Baylor and Iowa State have approached the Big East?

83jayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Latest on Orangeblood's is not good. They say UT out of the loop on ACC adding Pitt and Syracuse.

Our only hope now is that ACC would add KU/MU as 15 and 16. Doubtful given they view themselves as an East Coast leauge but it could happen.

Thus UT/TT to Pac. Pac option gone for KU.

We need to hope Big 12 hangs. Big East is now blown up.

Most likely destination for our beloved Jayhawks is new Big 12. Big 12 leftovers, Big East leftovers, maybe some Mountain West teams, TCU, Houston, maybe BYU. Money won't be as good as the four power conferences but it won't be the end of the world.

KU paying the price for years of igonoring football and of course small population.

I will still support the Hawks with everthing I have till the day I die. Get your asses to the football stadium if you really care about KU.

Steve Hillyer 6 years, 5 months ago

I'm not convinced the Pac wants Tech anymore than the ACC does, perhaps we head to the Pac with UT.

Brad Potter 6 years, 5 months ago

ACC is not an option, so no tRoy Boy visits to the field house anytime soon. Im sure ol tRoy and his keg of Coak squashed the Texas and KU rumor with his egomaniacal power and Coak dependence.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1266526

Brad Potter 6 years, 5 months ago

The new Tait wheel will likely be as follows:

Big east: 80 Big 12: 10 Big 10: 4 ACC: 1

Jeff Coffman 6 years, 5 months ago

News is reporting that Pittsburg will actually announce that they have joined the ACC as early as today.

FreeRider 6 years, 5 months ago

Oops, orangebloods reporting UT's ACC window is closing! ACC wants to strengthen its East Coast ties. UT WILL end up in the Pac with OU, OSU and Texas Tech. B1G will not hand out invites if it doesn't fit their vision of expanding the conference footprint into big TV markets. KU's best bet is what remains of the Big East, but they will probably lose their BCS/superconference status.

For everyone trying to make realignment a geography lesson, wake up! It's about football TV revenue; not making geographical sense — unless like the ACC that is what THEY want. The B1G will not take a step backward by raiding undesirable Big 12 markets that remain — including KU. The best chance to remain among the football elites was the Pac if UT turned it down. But, now, they are serious about the Pac. I think, unfortunately, KU will be left out of the superconferences.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

Well, there goes all the wind out of the sails. Looks like Tech is a major handcuff for Texas, so if Longhorns choose PAC, we're out.

If OU decides to come back, looks like we'll pick up some BEast schools and/or BYU.

ACC doesn't look like its interested.

B1G isn't budging.

What a mess!

If the PAC wins, it looks like our only option is too hold onto the Big XII contract, add the BEast castoffs, and see if we can ride that until further realignment happens. The question will become, can we hold FOX/ESPN to that contract with only five schools remaining. Four if MU bolts for the SEC. I don't think we get much movement on 1st tier rights negotiations, however, in 2016 if we can hold it.

I don't think BYU risks moving their non revenue teams. This means the Big XII (ISU, KU, KSU, MU and Baylor) would have to quickly join with UConn, Rutgers, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville, South Florida and TCU under the Big XII contract. Then we have to hope no more than two of those don't go elsewhere, or the we fall bellow the 10 team minimum the contract requires not to be voided.

This is absolutely horrible.

Joseph Kuebel 6 years, 5 months ago

Lol, the question is if the tv contract holds??? I suppose you think our BCS AQ bid will still be therr also, huh?

Seriously????

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

It depends on what legal aspect you can work. Obviously, on their own merit, the contract wouldn't hold. If you can find some legal reason for enforcing it, then you might. I wasn't holding it as a strong possibility, but I imagine it will be explored.

ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years, 5 months ago

The acc window is closing could be a giant bluff by UT to rid it's self of TT. The acc invites Kansas to be #15 then UT to be #16

Or

It means we are screwed!

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

I have to admit, it is interesting that the ACC didn't just announce four teams, if 16 is their intent. They could be playing the same hardball the PAC is playing and not as concerned if Texas declines as the PAC would be. I just can't see the ACC grabbing KU on its own unless it valued the basketball that much. I guess they could do that and use UConn as the backup plan, but we really stick out like a sore thumb in that scenario.

blindrabbit 6 years, 5 months ago

Through the twisty grapevine (an employee of the Longhorn Network) I've heard that some of the"West Coast" teams have also talked to ESPN about a Longhorn "Style" sports network. If this is so, maybe it was a plan all along to include Texas in a PAC12 mix, with the Longhorn Network serving as the blueprint for the PAC12.

Since so many KU fans are so BB oriented to the detriment of a consistent football program, maybe a conference of non-footballers consisting of :KU, St. Joseph's, Marquette, DePaul, Villanova, St. John's, Gonzaga, Georgetown and Wichita St might be the way to go. Just think of the money saved!.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

I don't understand the gist of your first paragraph? What "style"? The PAC has already set up their two school regional network as their blueprint.

FreeRider 6 years, 5 months ago

. . . and, Larry Scott stated once more today that the LHN model will not work in the Pac. The Pac is sticking to its plans just like every other major conference. The LHN will be changed, if as it appears UT ends up there. One of the Texas BOR items to be discussed on Monday sounds like it is specifically directed at changing the LHN contract.

If people would just read the stories on orangebloods, Jon Wilner's blog at the San Jose Mercury News, Bohl's blogs at the Austin Statesman and Tramel's columns in Oklahoma they would get what is going on and stop with the vivid imaginations.

Here's what they are pointing at: 1) The Pac adds OU, OSU, UT and Texas Tech -- like they had planned for last year; 2) The SEC gets West Virginia as its #14 member and may or may not add other schools; 3) The ACC will announce Pitt and Syracuse will join the conference -- likely tomorrow; and, 4) The B1G, as Jim Delaney said tonight, is comfortable where it is at with 12 schools. So, for now, the Pac will likely expand to 16 schools with East and West divisions, the SEC and ACC may stop at 14 for now and the B1G does not feel pressure to move off 12 schools. Oh, and the Big 12 and Big East are limping along with both about to lose BCS status and ESPN/ABC announcing tonight the Big 12 TV contract is in trouble if UT and OU leave as sxpected.

jgkojak 6 years, 5 months ago

Pitt's going to the ACC and the ACC effectively shutting door on exits ($20 million payout to leave) opens the door wide for KU to the Big 10.

Our best bet may be to sit tight in a B12-Big East hybrid for 3 years and then jump to the B10 when they begin expansion in 2 years (due to TV network deal timing).

lama 6 years, 5 months ago

Leftover league would be dreadful -- Baylor, Iowa State, Uconn, Cinci? Ugh.

Hank Cross 6 years, 5 months ago

This date could well mark the worst day in KU sports history. And the FB game wasn't the worst of it. It looks like UT and TT are going to the P12 with OU and OSU.

The ACC has no interest in taking KU and anyone else from the B12. More than likely they'll grab UConn to finish off the NE pod of the ACC and USF to consolidate its pressence in FL.

The SEC will take WVa and probably TCU to increase its stake in TX. The SEC would love to have MU, but even MU is smart enough to see that it will probably get invited to the B1G. The SEC tells UK to suck it up and takes L'ville.

Despite it protestations, the B1G has to expand and finally reels in ND, who no longer has a spot for its Olympic sports. If the ACC hasn't taken Rutgers, the B1G takes it for the academics and a toehold in the NYC area. The next invite goes to MU.

And here's where it could get ugly. The B1G takes ......ISU. Why ISU instead of KU? Because if ISU goes to C-USA, it becomes an economic basket case and will be dependent more on state funds. These funds will impact IU - there's only so much money to go around. In other words, ISU going to lesser conference could have a negative financial impact on IU. If ISU goes to the B1G, however, there's no $$ hit to IU and IU will still be top top dog in the state.

There isn't going to be anyone arguing KU's case to the B1G.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

That's more depressing than the depressed I already was. I don't think the Iowa scenario is as likely as you think. Iowa is receiving a ton of money from its BTN affiliation and academic membership. Iowa University is not as dependent on the state funds.

Further, it doesn't fulfill any of the B1G's stated goals for expansion: brand name, increased footprint, TV market share, powerhouse football. It fails miserably on all those fronts. At the very least, KU has some brand value in its basketball and helps shore up the KC market. Wichita is bigger than anything ISU could counter with.

The B1G is a big mystery, and they may be content to let the castoffs dangle a few years before they're ready to expand.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

Also, ISU probably won't be going to C-USA. Remember, schools like Cincinnati and possibly Louisville will be around. I could easily see ISU in an upgraded MAC before C-USA.

bill_the_kat 6 years, 5 months ago

Well I'm glad I read your post because I know reality will be better.

B10 will not take ISU no way. MU is a much better fit. KU would be OK and is certainly more likely since Syc and PITT are off the table. Probably less than 20% however.

So the most likely senerio is the Big East and Big 12 (-7) combine. There is zero chance that only the ACC, SEC, BIG10 and Pac 10 have the only BCS invites. The rubbish from the Big12/East have to have at least 1 invite among them.

So they should get together, and to get rid of the big east BBall only schools and the 7 football schools of the big east combine with the 5 members of the big 12 to from the .....

Big 12. (with Big east and Big central divisions).

LogicMan 6 years, 5 months ago

And leave the BB-only schools as the Big East. Makes short-term sense.

Mkultra 6 years, 5 months ago

The good news is the ACC should want to add 2 more teams to get to 16 so KU can still have a small glimmer of hope to be a dark horse. This may be a good time to have Bernadette after all. If the ACC has trouble getting the 16th team it could add Kansas because we have good academic standing and good basketball tradition. But if the keep the geography in place we are in trouble.

Then again we may be doomed for the Big East which could crumble and be swallowed by the ACC, SEC, and the Big 10. So maybe a remnants conference is in order like it says here.

If Texas or OU say they are leaving then the dominoes will fall of course. TV deal would be dead conference dead the rats will leave the sinking ship which should have happened when Nebraska and Colorado left. I dont see how the Big 12 is salvageable at all.

droppinplates 6 years, 5 months ago

The percentage thing is getting rediculous.

Steve Hillyer 6 years, 5 months ago

Why the desire to remain with MU and KSU? How great is the desire? I couldn't give a damn about staying with those schools, if we all could get in a legit BCS conference fine, but leftover Big East/12 would suck to the point I would give up my 19 year football season tickets.

RockChalkWoody 6 years, 5 months ago

I agree. The thought of some picked over Big East/Big 12 combo makes me sick to my stomach.

BarkingHawk 6 years, 5 months ago

If the Big 12 - as presently constituted with one logical addition - does not continue with a determined effort to be one for all and all for one, such as has made the SEC, ACC, Big Ten and Pac 12 work, (probably impossible at this point anyway), this party's over.

RockChalkWoody 6 years, 5 months ago

Didn't the party end a year ago when we had to agree to make sure that UT, OU, Texas A&M would be guaranteed a certain amount of $$$ (even if it meant we had to stroke them a check)? The SEC, ACC, and Big Ten would've never allowed one of their members to start their own friggin' network.

Ted Adams 6 years, 5 months ago

All this bitching about the LHN is really stupid. EVERYONE HAS HAD THEIR TIER 3 RIGHTS TO THEMSELVES! KU made $9million last year from its Tier 3 rights, so who give two sh1ts about the LHN. None of this has anything to do with the LHN or even $$$. It's all about A&M being a big frickin' baby and thinking that leaving UT behind is going to fix their problems. (Only to find out you can't just physically uproot your entire university and move it out of state, thus going to the SEC doesn't fix anything and actually makes a ton of problems they never considered.) Then, OU decides to throw themselves down in the cereal aisle and have a tantrum about why they should be the only other big dog in FB to have to deal with UT in the conference. Sheesh, what a giant bunch of BS this has turned out to be.

Hank Cross 6 years, 5 months ago

A possible slim ray of hope. Kirk Bohls reporting that the LHN is still an issue concerning UT to the P12. That could open the way for KU and KSU going to the P12. http://www.statesman.com/sports/collegefootball/pac-12-commissioner-addresses-conference-realignment-amid-swirling-1864259.html

Hank Cross 6 years, 5 months ago

Another glimmer of hope is that ND is committed to remaining a FB indie no matter what. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-notre-dame-ad-swarbrick-big-east-turmoil-a-surprise-20110917,0,4068299.story As long as ND has a place to park its olympic sports, the B1G won't expand. Maybe Dodds is calling his pal Swarbrick to create a B12/BE amalgamation which will preserve the LHN and ND FB independence.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 5 months ago

It's good to see that Notre Dame is, was, and remains to be the dumbest athletic department on the planet.

They'll decide to join a conference about ten years too late. You know, when NBC finally drops their 1.9 share ratings and mediocre teams and pickup conference broadcasts.

Then Notre Dame will say, "Hey, we are ready to bring our leetness to YOUR conference! Who wants some!?"

FLJHK 6 years, 5 months ago

An off the wall thought:

Let's halt this football bandwagon from destroying conferences and college sports as we know them. How? Institute the one-and-done rule for college football.

Witnessing the hypocritical outcry and faux concern for the welfare of student athletes would alone be worth any admission price.

Hank Cross 6 years, 5 months ago

ACC already approved admission of Syracuse and Pitt. It will be formally announced at a news conference tomorrow at 9:30 am EST. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2011-09-17/acc-approves-syracuse-pittsburgh-big-east/50448806/1

Best part for KU to B1G scenario is that ACC may go after Rutgers and UConn

"The ACC also has not closed off its options about adding two other East Coast teams, depending on how the expansion dominoes fall in other leagues. Connecticut and Rutgers would be the candidates, the official said."

Rutgers is the only BE FB team the B1G would take, They're not going to take USF, UCinn, or L'ville.

Hats off to the ACC for acting proactively and not leaving anything for the SEC and B1G.

.

Benjamin Piehler 6 years, 5 months ago

I still don't fully get why people want Rutgers....

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 5 months ago

People believe, mistakenly, I think, that Rutgers gives you the New York market. I just don't think it is that big a draw. I think the ACC should just go all in on basketball and take Louisville and Kansas!

But, if Rutgers does go to the ACC, I think it bodes well for KU... eventually. The ACC would have struck first in territory the B1G was eyeing. It also further destabilizes the Big East. This, in turn, might push the Irish towards the B1G. At that point, it depends if the PAC situation has settled. If Texas went with OU to the PAC, KU sits well with MU if the B1G goes to 16.

If Texas has declined the PAC invite, I suspect the PAC will invite either KU-MU or KU-KSU. We won't have the luxury of hoping the B1G expands enough. If the PAC calls, you have to answer. In that scenario, I suspect Texas will go to the B1G.

But what if Notre Dame still doesn't give up its status? That means the B1G needs two to four teams. If we're not going to the ACC with Texas (or in some long shot, another east team), then we have to hope the ACC moves quickly towards UConn and Rutgers.

Ted Adams 6 years, 5 months ago

Unbelievable...so with all the blogs, tweets, rumors, reports, etc. somehow this made it under the radar for almost 3 weeks?! This just proves my point that no one really knows what's going on, and more than likely, we don't know even half of what is happening. To top it off, most of what is out there is complete fabrication or embellished to the point of falsehood.

jaywalkinhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

This realignment business makes me feel like the jayhawks are in middle school waiting to get picked in the gym for teams. The conferences are picking and choosing the best schools based on a number of factors. As in middle school the most athletic and popular kids get chosen first.

Texas will modify the LHN to get into the PAC and take TT with them. Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are gone as well. B1G is a strong conference and therefore probably does not feel the need to move on adding teams.

Going back to picking teams - it appears my beloved Jayhawks might not get picked. Going to be difficult for the Hawks and fans in a conference of teams that have not been 'picked'

Than again it is anybody's guess at this point. Will most likely find out by Monday.

Steve Hillyer 6 years, 5 months ago

Now I know what people who suffer from Bipolar Disorder feel like, seven hours ago I was happy as can be (despite today's humiliation in ATL and the bball team losing a player) thinking we were heading to the ACC or Big 10, now I'm down thinking we could be in the City Union Mission league when it is all said and done

Brad Potter 6 years, 5 months ago

Mayweather is the big east and KU is Ortiz. Grave disappointment.

Brad Potter 6 years, 5 months ago

Not sure what I was going for there after reading that I just know its been a really awful day for Jayhawk nation.

Laurence Cooley 6 years, 5 months ago

jayhawk nation will be fine. we always are. i have a feeling that ku has an ace up their sleeve. did anyone see the syracuse and pitt move coming? the acc is working behind the scenes and not plastering what they are doing all over the media. i have a feeling we will be just fine.

the loss hurt, but we will rebound.

FLJHK 6 years, 5 months ago

Wherever this this ends up: 1. ACC, a complete non-sensical smoke screen from the get go; 2. Pac xx, the most credible current contender, if they can effect a divorce of UT and TTech; 3. Big 10, by far the most logical and desirable outcome, but undermined by the deliberative nature of that conference; and 4. A skelaton-like form of left-over Big 12, Big East and MTW universities, lacking AQ status. The most likely outcome.

Whatever the outcome, all glamor destinations should pay heed; Jayhawk Nation is strong. You will never regret our inclusion.

Hank Cross 6 years, 5 months ago

Unsourced Wake blog, that UT is voting on Monday on joining the ACC. http://www.bloggersodear.com/2011/9/18/2432502/sources-texas-set-to-vote-monday-on-joining-acc

If the ACC takes either UT or Rutgers, KU's chances of landing in a superconference will go up.

Joseph Kuebel 6 years, 5 months ago

Thanks for the post. I enjoy that bit of news tremendously... Especially if this news is legit.

Daniel Kennamore 6 years, 5 months ago

And Syracuse and Pitt leaving is EXACTLY why I've been saying the past two week that the Big East is the worst possible landing for KU. It's as dead as the Big 12.

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