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Realignment Today, 5:03 p.m. - Regents at OU, UT each set Monday meetings

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5:03 p.m. Update:

Just a quick note about a couple of Tweets from Orangebloods.com's Chip Brown that just popped up.

First: Brown says that the Monday meetings scheduled at both Texas and Oklahoma will be about authorizing each school's presidents to handle negotiations for realignment. That would open the door for things to move a little quicker here.

Second: Brown says that his sources indicate that OU is still very much interested in and focused on joining the Pac-12.

Nothing Earth-shattering but good info nonetheless.

Stay tuned...

3:53 p.m. Update:

Just a quick update here. Things remain relatively quiet — at least in terms of public comments — but this Tweet surfaced from Aaron Dickens, who covers Texas Tech, about 20 minutes ago.

Texas has scheduled a special BOR meeting for 3 pm Monday; conference affiliation is on the agenda.

https://twitter.com/#!/AaronDickens

With Oklahoma's regents scheduled to meet Monday as well, it looks like we may finally learn some real stuff about what's going on with two of the most important cogs in all of this mess in the near future.

Of course, at this point, "conference affiliation" or "conference alignment" could be an agenda item at 50 schools across the country. If you're a BCS school and you haven't talked much about this yet, it would be a good idea to start discussing it. You never know how quickly things can turn.

In other areas of this story, I just hooked up with some Georgia Tech administrators to talk about conference realignment and I learned a couple of interesting and relevant facts.

• The talk in ACC country is as hot as anywhere and many down here believe the superconference scenario is about to be upon us. Not surprisingly, they tend to believe that, when it goes down, the four conferences that house the cream of the crop will be the Pac-16, Big Ten, SEC and some combo of the Big East and ACC. The general consensus down here is that the Big 12 is dead.

• Speaking more about who might go where, one person pointed out a precedent from ACC country that spoke to the future for KU and K-State. Years ago, when the ACC expanded, it was Virginia that got Virginia Tech into the league. At the time, many in the ACC wanted Syracuse and it is believed that the Orange were interested in joining. Just something to chew on.

• If Georgia Tech were to go anywhere once all this shakes out, it would be the Big Ten. Because of Tech's academic rating, which is much better than more than a few B1G schools, including Nebraska, the Yellow Jackets are an attractive option. Add to that the idea of the Big Ten being able to expand its footprint into the Atlanta market and it's easy to see why that would be a good move for the Big Ten. That said, it's clear that GT is very happy where it is.

That's it for now. Just a couple of nuggets you might find interesting.

Updated wheel -

  1. Big 12 - 32%
  2. Big East - 30%
  3. ACC - 18%
  4. Pac-12 - 12%
  5. Big Ten - 8%

Stay tuned...

1:36 p.m. Update:

Made it to Atlanta and, from the sound and look of things, I didn't miss much while I was in the air.

Just as I suspected, it's been a pretty quiet day in the realignment world so far. I'm expecting it will stay that way for the rest of the day and throughout the evening.

I'll keep my eyes and ears open, though, and will bring updates when available. One piece of information I saw after landing — which I'd hardly call a surprise — was from Chip Brown of Orangebloods.com, who said that UT football coach Mack Brown continues to lobby for the Big 12 to stay together.

I know I've been back and forth on the conference's future the whole time — along with everyone else — but for those who care today feels like a pro-Big 12 day to me.

Quick update on my percentage wheel:

  1. Big 12 - 40%
  2. Big East - 32%
  3. ACC - 11%
  4. Pac-12 - 9%
  5. Big Ten - 8%

For now, here's a good story from SI.com's Seth Davis on where KU stands in the whole deal. It has a real basketball slant to it but it also hits on some harsh realities. I'm not sure all of the information is 100 percent accurate so bear that in mind while you're reading it. Kansas is in better shape than Davis thinks.

To be fair, someone posted this in the comments below but in case not all of you scroll through those regularly, here's the link. Enjoy.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/09/16/Kansas.Big.12/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a2

And stay tuned...

8:18 a.m. Update:

It’s early, and there’s not much happening in the world of realignment just yet, but we’re on the way to the airport for Atlanta and I wanted to get something up to give you all a place to discuss the day’s news while we’re en route.

The guess here is that today is going to be quiet. We already know that the Oklahoma board of regents has conference realignment on the agenda for Monday’s meeting. In case you didn’t, here’s the official wording of the agenda item:

The Board of Regents will discuss potential legal ramifications of athletic conference realignment options and/or consider new athletic conference membership and take any appropriate action. An executive session may be proposed pursuant to Section 307B.4 of the Oklahoma Open Meetings Act.

We also know that the Sooners are in Tallahassee this weekend to take on No. 5 Florida State and that, as self-centered as some of the higher ups at OU can seem to be, they’re not going to let anything steal the spotlight from Bob Stoops’ squad’s biggest game of the season.

With that said, today very well may be more about analysis and columns and thoughts and guesses.

Here’s a good one to kick-start the day, from Berry Tramel of The Daily Oklahoman, who says in his latest blog that it may be time for the Sooners to make a play for the SEC, if they really want to get Texas’ attention.

http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2011/09/16/ou-football-time-to-play-the-sec-card/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

As we continue to wait out OU, it’s amazing to me how many other rumors pop up about other teams headed to other conferences. Texas to the ACC. Florida State and/or West Viriginia to the SEC. Syracuse to the ACC. Georgia Tech to the Big Ten. It’s never-ending. And it strikes me as odd because the whole thing is contingent on what happens in the Big 12.

I know people think this is a weak conference — the last 16 months haven’t done anything to dispel such thoughts — and I know there are thousands of people out there who think this thing is too unstable to survive past the next few weeks. But the Big 12 sure is in a power position right now. It might not be the kind of power that anyone would want to have, but it’s definitely powerful nonetheless.

I’ll try to update one more time before we hop on the plane and then we’ll see what happens when we land at the border of ACC and SEC country. Oh boy!

Stay tuned...

Comments

LogicMan 6 years, 3 months ago

UT, OU, and OSU, with A&M, to the SEC does make sense geographically, Sorry, Texas Tech, you are left out, but you are welcome and encouraged to stick with us.

But I don't think UT is ready to make that jump, so they may lose their slot to VaTech.

Again, let those go who want to, without penalty, as long as they agree in writing not to vote to dissolve. Then let's quickly rebuild the Big12+/- with willing regional teams from the MWC, Big East, etc. Unless the Big 10 comes calling quickly.

Jayhawk444 6 years, 3 months ago

I have seen very little UT-to-SEC talk. Maybe because that is a condition of TAMU accepting an invitation. Why would the Aggies run away from UT without trying to ensure they don't end up in the same conference a year or two down the road?

LogicMan 6 years, 3 months ago

TAMU would have little if any say in the SEC getting UT, etc. They don't have a vote yet, and then will only have one. And little gravitas given that they are the new guys on the block.

$ talks, and UT brings a lot. Hopefully they'll stick with the Big 12 revision .2, but only time will tell.

Marcia Parsons 6 years, 3 months ago

Texas joining A&M in the SEC would be the ultimate irony.

FreeRider 6 years, 3 months ago

That's not what Tramel is writing in his blog. He, nor anyone else, thinks UT would go to the SEC. Tramel is writing that OU should use the SEC threat to get UT on board with a move to the Pac -- one that would require a restructuring of the Longhorn Network that UT clearly does not want to change. If OU and OSU joined A&M in the SEC, UT would be screwed and marginalized in its own neighborhood. So, Tramel's thinking is an OU threat to do just that would finally end the roadblock and force UT to rethink how much it wants the LHN while having no good remaining conference options. It would be a ploy for OU to get what it wants -- UT joining it in an eastern division of the Pac.

jhox 6 years, 3 months ago

A&M's problem with Texas has to do with revenue sharing (or lack thereof). I'm sure they would love to keep the rivalry alive on a level playing field, which they would have in the SEC because the LHN would not be allowed there in its present form.

mdfraz 6 years, 3 months ago

Except that from most accounts, it appears UT offered aTm to join in in some fashion on TLN, and they said no. They had a chance at least for SOME revenue sharing, and turned it down.

texashawk10 6 years, 3 months ago

Yes, UT offered to be partners with A&M on a network. UT did this so they wouldn't have to burden the full cost of a network and even that wasn't going to a 50-50 split of revenue. This also happened well before ESPN offered $300 million to finance the network. Supposedly after ESPN offered to finance the network, A&M wanted back in and UT said no. I don't know if 100% if that last sentence is true about A&M wanting to get back in on the network, but that's been a rumor down here in Texas for awhile.

Eric Dawson 6 years, 3 months ago

Points against tu going to the SEC: 1. Expect less on-field success playing against the country's best conference top to bottom. 2. tu is a top academic U, and is on record as wanting affiliations that provide more research funding opportunities. The SEC schools do not have the academic bonafides and connections of the ACC, Pac1# or B1G. 3. I would fully expect A&M to change it's mind about the SEC if tu tried to join it right now. Ironically, that creates a scenario where tu could save the Big 12 by leaving it, as I would expect A&M and OU would both stay and rebuild the conference. Hey, wait -- I LIKE that idea! Yeah! tu to the SEC.

justinryman 6 years, 3 months ago

Matt I don't think the teams in the Big12 are weak, that's why other conferences have either went and got them or are trying to get them. Sure Colorado is not a powerhouse, but have ya been to Boulder? That alone is a great selling point to the PAC12 with the mountains and all.

OK sure Iowa St. isn't the prettiest girl at the dance and well Ames, is well it's just Ames Iowa. But they have a place in the world, I mean besides Kst, where is everyone going to take their YorkiePoo when it gets sick? That's right either to an ISU or KSU grad.

Missouri is, well its, uh well, NEVER MIND it's Missouri.

Baylor is a Texas market, private Christian school or not it is in Texas. Tech can use the same argument, but for some reason that I am unaware of, people kinda like them.

Oklahoma St., they are an emerging force thanks to T. Boone Pickens. If he gave any pocket change to a conference, can you say WOW??

Texas A&M has tradition and it's in Texas.

OU it's been a power house team since Barry Switzer was there, minus a few of the John Blake and Howard Schnellenberger years.

Texas has money and TV sets and did I mention the money???

Kansas, how not to be prejudice here. It's the name, everyone knows who Kansas University is. Be it from the basketball program or not, it is a brand that people know.

Unfortunately all these schools think they are top dog, or want to have the power that someone else has. Sure when the Big12 started they should have had equal revenue sharing, then all this would be a mute point. But with all the infighting, the conference is weak, not by the schools themselves, but by the stability in which the schools are called a conference.

Hope you all had a safe flight.

pepper_bar 6 years, 3 months ago

"Kansas, how not to be prejudice here. It's the name, everyone knows who Kansas University is. Be it from the basketball program or not, it is a brand that people know."

Hate to burst your bubble, but I live in Pac 12 country, and there are lots of well-educated people here who don't know or care where Kansas is, let alone know anything about the university.

Out here, basketball is a pro sport. Ask anyone over 40 about University of Kansas basketball, you're more likely to get a blank stare than not. People here just don't pay much attention to college hoops outside their own alumni interest (if that).

tychi_jayhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Well, to that point, a lot of well educated people out there don't know or care where Arizona state is. So what's your point? Is it simply that there are well educated people who don't know a lot about college athletics? Hate to burst your bubble, but that happens all over the country. I lived in sf and now Chicago. Lots of people don't know or care about KU. So what? I've met many people who do.

It's irrelevant because the people who are in charge of realignment know all about the schools in play. They know their academics, their tv markets, their alumni bases, and how much their athletic departments gross.

So rest assured that +40 year olds on the west coast won't be asked to weigh in if they've ever heard or KU.

pepper_bar 6 years, 3 months ago

I responded to the post above mine. I'm not sure what you're responding to, besides a bunch of strawmen.

justinryman 6 years, 3 months ago

If they are pro sports fans, then this isn't targeted towards them. This doesn't affect the Lakers, so that crowd isn't what I'm talking about. Because if they were truly LA sports fans, then they would know about Danny Manning being the Clippers first pick, so. But all they care about is the Lakers, and don't say they aren't.

Knowledgable sports fans, knowing sports, not just the ones in their own little world, know who Kansas is. The people making decisions in the conference robbing that is going on, they know who Kansas is.

Go to Vegas, they know who Kansas is. Go to Phoenix, they know who Kansas is. NYC, Chicago, Atalanta, they all know who Kansas is. Then again those are all real sports cities as they still have NFL teams in them. LA is about looks, not brains.

danmoore 6 years, 3 months ago

... ask anyone over 40 about KU...

I also live in Pac 12 country and would have to disagree with your assessment. Maybe your circle of friends don't care but plenty of people do. I don't know how one could take the entire west coast plus Arizona and make such a broad statement.

danmoore 6 years, 3 months ago

Ask any sports fan over or under 40 years of age about KU basketball and I guarantee you will not get a blank stare.

justajoe 6 years, 3 months ago

"Hate to burst your bubble, but I live in Pac 12 country, and there are lots of well-educated people here who don't know or care where Kansas is, let alone know anything about the university."

"...lots of well-educated people here who don't know or care where Kansas is..."

"...well-educated people here...don't know...where Kansas is..."

Food for thought. Please, please have your breakfast before visiting us again.

ejlumus 6 years, 3 months ago

Hate to burst everyones bubble, but college presidents who know absolutely nothing about college sports are making the decisions.

HawksWin 6 years, 3 months ago

Pepper, I get you. As much as I'm a KU, the coast is ignorant about Kansas. New Yorkers/Philly equate Kansas to Toto & "moos" as in cowboys in cowtown. Don't believe? Go stand on the 5th Ave & ask away. My brother went to Penn in the late 80s (hence over 40) & was bombarded with questions on the wizard of oz. CA educated equate the home of our beloved Jayhawks to Kansas education on evolution & Roe v Wade. They also are very frightened about the tornados. CA has the weather, the ocean, the mountains - why would they care to learn / know about middle of nowhere as they say. Yap, there's that limited but superiority thinking coming from the coastal neighbors. Yah CA has the pupulation & TVs, but will we command their attention with our BB? There are zillion weekend get aways in CA (& the east but they love their bb). Would you pack up & hit Napa Valley / surf / hike / mountain bike or whatever or stay home to watch KU BB? KU BB for me but don't be disappointed if CA doesn't.

justajoe 6 years, 3 months ago

'the coast is ignorant'

'They are also very frightened'

'there's limited but superiority thinking coming from the coastal neighbors'

You said it, brother!

Hank Cross 6 years, 3 months ago

Disagree with your statement as it applies about CA's knowledge of KU. In the last four years I've been to games at USC, UCLA, and Cal, and at all of these games KU alumni and fans heavily represented. I can't count the times I've seen KU stuff out here or the times I've received a favorable response to my KU gear. Now, if you said MU or KSU, that would be completely believable.

Joseph Kuebel 6 years, 3 months ago

Likewise, I've ran into several KU Alumni, and fans while being in the bay area. People follow men's bball and the tournament is as big here as it is in Chicago.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 3 months ago

Pepper is just a troll, so stop feeding the troll or they just keep hanging out.

Hammertoe 6 years, 3 months ago

Kansasans have a difficult time understading that college basketball isn't as popular in other parts of the country! Very few college basketball teams sell out home games even when their teams are ranked. My friends in Texas couldn't care less about college basketball. They are too busy reading about football recruits while we are focused on basketball. Some interesting comments from Lew Perkins in the attached SI article about KU Basketball found on CNN SI.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/09/16/Kansas.Big.12/index.html?sct=cb_t11_a1

hawksince51 6 years, 3 months ago

"OU it's been a power house team since Barry Switzer was there, minus a few of the John Blake and Howard Schnellenberger years.'

You're forgetting the 1950's under Bud Wilkerson which were simply phenomenal for OU football. In the late 50's I saw them come into Memorial Stadium and beat us like 60 to 0, playing 3rd and 4th teams in the 2nd half. They were awesome and he won several National titles with undefeated teams.

question4u 6 years, 3 months ago

"OK sure Iowa St. isn't the prettiest girl at the dance... But they have a place in the world...where is everyone going to take their YorkiePoo when it gets sick?"

USNews & World Report National University Rankings:

Iowa State University #97 University of Kansas #101

Iowa State is a member of the AAU and has been ranked higher than KU academically for years. If the Pac 12 were concerned principally with academics, it would find Iowa State more attractive than KU. It's fine to be a fan of your school, but, as everyone knows, love is blind.

purple 6 years, 3 months ago

"LogicMan" you should change your handle to "Sandman" as you are a dreamer... UT isn't going to the SEC because they are afraid to be in a conference where they aren't 'da man' and they don't want to be associated with academically inferior institutions. Take any combination of UT, OU and A&M from the Big 12 and it is dead. Who would you rebuild with if they left? Baker...maybe Pitts State? If OU leaves for the PAC 12 (which would be a huge mistake due to travel, bad start times, etc.) then it is over. At that point, I-State and Baylor are hosed. K-State will beg big brother KU to help get them in the Big East. MU will go to the SEC or, if they decide to expand, the Big 10 will come knocking on their door.

LogicMan 6 years, 3 months ago

"Who would you rebuild with if they left? "

Some possibilities, but all would need study. I'm assuming no ND or Arkansas:

BYU (and maybe Utah State) Colorado State (and maybe AFA) Wyoming New Mexico (and maybe NM State) Tulsa TCU, SMU, Houston Louisville (and maybe Cincinnati)

and a few more possibilities that I'm not saying at this time. And keep a couple of slots open in case old Big 8 members decide that the grass wasn't really that green on the other side of the fence, and now want to come home. Stranger things have happened.

LogicMan 6 years, 3 months ago

Sometimes y'a got to start over. Plow under the past, and plant a new crop.

ku1otaku 6 years, 3 months ago

Aren't Louisville & Cincinnati in the BCS?

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

Cincinnati & Louisville are in the Big East which is given a BCS Invite. TCU will be in that same Big East next year.

Let's say ONLY OU & OSU leave....could always happen.

Add BYU, Cincinnati, Louisville, Houston & TCU ...three of which would be in a BCS Conf. next year anyway, the other two having had well-rounded moderately successful athletics programs as well. Would still be a good conference and ahead of whatever would be left of the Big East or Mountain West or what have you. Would be 4th - 5th best conference.

Joseph Kuebel 6 years, 3 months ago

That is just ugly. BCS bid gone, tv contract gone.

Chris Shaw 6 years, 3 months ago

Matt Tait, You bring an interesting perspective with your last paragraph, Tait. Yes, it does seem like everybody is just picking the pieces away from the Big 12, but you're exactly right.......The Big 12, if they can get over their egos, have the opportunity to do a "Power" move if they wanted.

With that said, you and I both know that decision completely depends on Texas giving up some of their concessions in order to make the rest of the conference happy, especially A&M and the Oklahoma schools. Will that happen? That's the million dollar question.

Jeff Coffman 6 years, 3 months ago

It might be more than just a million dollars!!

JayBoi2011 6 years, 3 months ago

I'll quote a movie. "You know what's bigger than a million dollars?" "What?" "A Billion Dollars"

getserious 6 years, 3 months ago

Let OU, OK st and Texas go. Good luck with the travel expenses. We should pick up Memphis, Tulsa, Rice, Houston, TCU, UTEP and SMU. We(the Big 12) would still retain our spot in the BCS, our travel expenses would stay the same and we would be very stable. Has anyone at Texas or OU really looked at a map? You going to ask your fans to drive from Austin to Washington or Oregon? Ridiculous.

ohjayhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Just because the Big 12 is in the BCS right now, that doesn't mean that will always be the case if more teams are added just to keep the conference name afloat. There's been talk for years about the BCS possibly dropping the Big East as an automatic qualifying conference because their "power" football schools have had some rough years lately. Who in that revamped Big 12 would be enough to convince the BCS that the Big 12 shouldn't have it's automatic bid revoked? TCU? Possibly. Missouri? Perhaps (if they decide to stick around), but that's about it. Again, it's all about the $$$. What bowl is going to, in most years, pay millions of dollars to watch the Big 12 champion get pummeled by a team from the SEC, Pac-whatever, etc? If the Big 12 loses Texas, OU and OSU, it will cease being a big-time football conference.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 3 months ago

Ugh! :( No.....Memphis, Tulsa, Rice, UTEP....NO! I don't want to be Conf. USA, "The Midwest / Mid-South version" :(. LOUSY conference....rights would sukk!

Bear86 6 years, 3 months ago

You really want KU to have Memphis, Tulsa, Rice, TCU, Utep & SMU in their conference. getsrious and put down the crack pipe. Why would you want KU to lower their Academic and Athletic Standards? Those schools are a bunch of Jr College's when you compare them to KU. F-Texas!

texashawk10 6 years, 3 months ago

I'm pretty sure 3 of those schools could beat KU in football right now...1 of them would absolutely crush KU. As far as academics go, two of those schools are among the very best in the country and a couple more are on par or better than KU. Two of those schools wouldn't diminish the Big 12 brand any more than having ISU or Baylor in the conference do.

LSHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

The Big 12 is going to survive simply because travel for any of the schools will be totally outragous in ANY of the other confreneces for the smaller sports. Even if OU and OSU do leave, I say good, just better recruiting for us. Just think of about half of the Texas kids that currently pick OU and OSU will now be picking KU, KSU and MU. Go ahead and invite Louisville, SMU and BYU or any three schools for that matter, if we and KSU and MU start getting some of these 4 and 5 star recruits that normally go to OU because THIER PARENTS want to see them play almost every weekend, the BIG 12 will still be big time football, the names will just change. After about 3 years of getting these recruits MU, KSU and even KU will be in the top 20 most years AND OU and OSU will come crawling back begging to get back into OUR confrenece because they lost thier primary recruiting grounds and the travel is killing thier programs.

texashawk10 6 years, 3 months ago

Many of the smaller lesser-funded programs would be able to join conferences like C-USA (where KU's rowing team currently competes) or the Missouri Valley as satellite member simply because a lot sports the Big 12 sponsors don't have more than 5 schools that compete anyway. 5 schools compete in men's tennis and women's swimming and diving, 4 schools compete in wrestling,equestrian and rowing, and 3 schools compete in gymnastics and men's swimming and diving. Of those sports, KU only competes in women's swimming and diving and rowing so finding a conference home that doesn't involve traveling to coasts.

mdfraz 6 years, 3 months ago

Getserious, please do exactly what your name says. We keep our BCS status? How????? Tulsa? UTEP? SMU? You've got to be joking. And Memphis? Who lost 47-3 last week to.....ARKANSAS STATE? How in God's name would we remain a BCS conference with those teams? In what universe does picking C-USA teams to replace OU, OSU and UT make us a BCS conference? The best team left, as sickening as it is to say, would be Mizzou. Possibly TCU, but they just joined the Big East, and I don't see them lowering themselves (and that's exactly what it would be, despite the Big Least's weakness) to join a leftover crappy conference; I certainly wouldn't.

Your question about "asking fans to drive"......again, you can't be serious. If fans figured into this one bit realignment would never happen. The fans mean absolutely nothing in all of this, at least ones that want to follow their teams in person. It's about TV money. That's it. The "power brokers" making the decisions couldn't care less about fans who won't be able to drive to away games.

LSHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

I dont think Texas is going anywhere, they are determined to keep the LHN and they will stay in the Big 12. So I believe we will have to replace 3 schools, which we can do without hurting our BCS status.

ohjayhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

I agree. I think Texas is a big enough draw alone to keep the Big 12 a BCS conference. I think OU would be, too, but they're the one's with one foot out the door (allegedly).

ku1otaku 6 years, 3 months ago

Agreed. If we lose OU & OSU that drops us down to 7 and I think we could easily pick up BYU to bring us back to 8 and give the Big XII a little time to re-group. Not exactly sure where you go from there though. Maybe Louisville? I would not be opposed to TCU but other than that we don't need/want any more Texas schools. Also, I believe it was said that the Big XII in general doesn't want to add anymore Texas schools in fear of being pressured to take more. Memphis would be a great basketball school addition, but they have too many other glaring negatives to be a top choice.

danmoore 6 years, 3 months ago

The conference could survive the losss of A&M but I don't think the loss of OU would make this a viable conference. Apparently Texas does not hold all the cards.

Brian Skelly 6 years, 3 months ago

The reality if this conference becomes "Texas as its 9 (or 10 or 12 or whatever) little sisters" it will still go through this every year. And ultimately, KU would be better off leaving if that continues. And it will.

Why? Because as UT insists on the LHN not going away (or being altered) there will always be significant inequality that will be difficult to reconcile. There is already discrepancy with this, but its not as obscene as it would be once the LHN is in full swing. Understand too, im NOT bothered by them having it. Im bothered by the idea that they dont share any of it within the conference. Weather they are aware of it or not (and its starting to dawn on them with OU being on the move) UT is heading for independence. By choice or not.

You dont see Ohio State pulling this @#$@. Michigan? Alabama? Florida? Georgia, USC, Oregon, Florida St? Of course not. Why? Because despite being strong brands nationally they understand the importance of being reasonably equal amongst their peers financially within the conference.

Ive read that people see the LHN as a "wave of the future". I cant say thats the case or not, but there's no question we're already seeing issues with the 'go it alone' idea.

Give UT credit, a conference destruction every few decades or so is something they're good at.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 3 months ago

You are absolutely right. If Oklahoma leaves this conference there is no way we should stay here. And you can bet that UT will offer that option.

I posted the conference makeup in another post, so I'll refrain from doing it again, but its shameful.

In the history of the Big 12 the top four most influential football programs were UT, OU, A&M, and Nebraska. Were those conference members or the list from "The Dead Pool?"

Don't care if it has to be the Big East, just get us out of here.

danmoore 6 years, 3 months ago

KU fields 15 sports and all but 2 are non-revenue producing. Don't know what Oklahoma has but if they bolt for the Pac12 will their increase in revenue compensate the increased travel costs for non-revenue sports? It will cost more to travel to SoCal, Bay Area, Seattle, etc. than to Stillwater and Austin.

Phoggin_Loud 6 years, 3 months ago

Matt, You are doing a FANTASTIC job of keeping us informed!! Thanks for sharing all of the angles and points of view regarding potential re-alignment. Keep up the great work!

Steve Hillyer 6 years, 3 months ago

Matt, Does BGL usually attend away games? As this game is in ACC country I wonder if she makes the trip and talks to few conference peeps. Also, keep an eye on who SZ may be sitting next to or having dinner with...just a thought

ejlumus 6 years, 3 months ago

The 'golden egg" has been exposed and "Uncle Sam" is licking his chops. Tax $$$, Tax $$$ ... he wants his cut.

jgkojak 6 years, 3 months ago

I am still dumbfounded why the NCAA for one doesn't take a bit of a stand.

They ought to have a mileage limit on the amount of conference travel student athletes do - or at least amount of travel per year (they can exempt Hawaii).

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 3 months ago

The NCAA doesn't have any real power when it comes to football. They're worried that if super conferences do come they could lose their golden goose, the NCAA tournament.

Ben Kane 6 years, 3 months ago

I don't think there is much of a chance the ncaa loses the basketball tournament. however, superconferences could retreat from the ncaa in football, create their own playoff and championship, and get rid of the bcs.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 3 months ago

"The NCAA doesn't have any real power."

/fixed

Travis Clementsmith 6 years, 3 months ago

I read Trammel's article, and I think he is reaching. Its too late for anyone to take a Sooner threat to the SEC as credible. He says they'll bring OSU and MU along. Really? Why does he think MU would choose OU and the vaunted SEC over potentially more money in the ACC, a higher academic profile, the retention of Texas recruiting and their main rival?

The Sooners have already made it clear that they prefer the PAC over the SEC for numerous reasons. They already have shown their hand in that regard. Its an empty threat and everyone will know it.

ku_foaf 6 years, 3 months ago

A tangent...but Atlanta is the crossroads of the SEC & ACC, not the border. In town GA Tech is ACC, favored son UGA is SEC. They do a good job of covering both in the Altanta paper. Always made it interesting & lots of sports to cover.

Hank Cross 6 years, 3 months ago

A very interesting - but pessimistic - take on the future of KU. Plenty for everyone to chew on, but I love this quote:

"If ever a case illustrated how basketball has become but a poor, bedraggled, unloved stepchild in the expansive family of college athletics, this is it. No basketball program in the country can match Kansas when it comes to excellence and tradition. The school's first coach was James Frickin Naismith, for goodness sake. Clyde Lovelette played there. So did Wilt Chamberlain. So did Adolph Rupp, Dean Smith, Ralph Miller and John McClendon. This is the school that gave us Phog Allen, Danny and the Miracles and Mario Chalmers' three-pointer. Seventeen people who either played for or coached at Kansas are enshrined in the Springfield Hall of Fame -- including two prominent North Carolina graduates, Larry Brown and Roy Williams. As bluebloods go in college basketball, you can't get any bluer than Kansas."

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/09/16/Kansas.Big.12/index.html#ixzz1Y8cnF74y

LogicMan 6 years, 3 months ago

From the article ... "because of ... the 50,000 (small) stadium"

We need to break ground on a stadium expansion even if the seats will be empty. A full second level to the north bowl is the most straight-forward approach, but isn't cheap. Have there been any cost estimates for that project?

Jayhawk444 6 years, 3 months ago

It's an interesting idea...but it really doesn't make sense. If we're only getting 40K in a 50K stadium...it'd be a joke, not to mention a waste of taxpayers' money, to add another 20K seats. Now if Anderson/Kvisto/Booth want to throw their money at it I guess that's their business, but it would still seem a laughable mustering of resources.

Michael Maris 6 years, 3 months ago

Heck, let's just tear down Memorial Stadium. Since, Kansas Football isn't a powerhouse. Why not just tear down the football stadium and forget all about KU Football. Then, Kansas could just go ahead and join the Missouri Valley and make all of the WSU fans happy each and every year.

Or, if KU can some how get into a BCS Conference that is NOT going to be raided.

U. of Kansas can just rebuild Memorial Stadium and put more money into the Football Program (since Coach Self is aware that Football is the actual driving force of all this conference realignment issues).

I'm telling you, Roy Williams was a heck of a Basketball Coach at KU. But, when it came down to the Football Program getting more money. Ol Roy was NOT in favor of that issue.

Coach Self seems to understand the Kansas needs a solid football program.

So, get rid of the track and rebuild both the Grandstands and make the Stadium capable of holding 75,000 to 80,000 fans. Start holding outdoor concerts to assist for paying off the stadium, etc.......

If Turner Gill can't get the job done at KU. Then, pay the $$$$$$ for a Head Coach that CAN get the job done.

Newly Revised Stadium and new athletic facilities will get the issue taken care of and the Recruits will start seeing that Kansas is pumping the $$$$$$$$$ into the Football Program to be a Contender.

Eric Dawson 6 years, 3 months ago

Kansas Memorial Stadium expansion history 1926-present 1926: 22,000 seats 1927: added north bowl +13,000 seats = 35,000 seats 1963: West 2nd level +9.900 seats = 44,900 seats 1965: East 2nd level +6,600 = 51,500 seats until 1991 renovations since then have reduced capacity to current 50,071 seats (97th in capacity for US football stadia, pro and collegiate).

Adding a full 2nd level to the bowl could conceivably double seating there, so conservatively add another 13,000 to get to 63.000 seats, which would rank Memorial in the mid60s with BYU, Fiesta Bowl, Raiders, Colts, Purdue and larger than Purdue, Illinois and Ole Miss.

Cost? no clue.

Mention has been made of lowering the field so more "up close and personal" seating could be installed where the track is today. Just guessing, but that plus the bowl could bring the seating to 70,000+. Now we're talking in the same company with Rice U, Chargers, Iowa, MU and Georgia.

We can only hope we would ever need that many seats to meet fan demand. (Note for comparisons: NU is 86,304; MU is 71,004; Iowa Hawkeyes 70,585; OK St 60,218; KSt 52,200; U of Minnesota 50,805)

Of course, if the program can be made consistently successful... :-)

mdfraz 6 years, 3 months ago

It's a good thing (maybe simply a feel good thing for our bruised egos) to think that national writers are starting to wonder where we fit. Perhaps there are writers asking about Mizzou's future as well, but with our basketball tradition we are in a different league than any of the other "leftovers". While that alone doesn't mean squat, it's at least something that makes us stand out. I was tracking with this article all the way until Davis suggested that the Big East might be our second best option. I nearly throw up in my mouth every time I think about that.

Let's hope SZ and BGL are doing a TON more work behind the scenes than we have yet been led to believe.

Jeff Coffman 6 years, 3 months ago

If the stadium size is the only thing pending, couldn't we use Arrowhead until we expand. To me the stadium size is fixable.

LogicMan 6 years, 3 months ago

Marketing, changing the culture, and winning would do wonders. Just like under the prior coach.

But the point is to start doing tangible things today (yesterday would've been better) for the FB program to make us more attractive. The number of seats are quoted in many stories.

What other tangible things can we do? I think many alums and friends would dig deeply to make a logical plan happen.

David Atchley 6 years, 3 months ago

agreed....Kansas fans can't show up and fill 50,000 seats on any given Saturday, However a bigger stadium would generate more revenue for Kansas and seats for the visiting fans.

ejlumus 6 years, 3 months ago

Great idea,especially if we are in pac.

The pac fans really travel.

I say add 20,000 seats to make room from Wazzu fans, etc

JayBoi2011 6 years, 3 months ago

I will say that I have been to an Iowa State game (last year when we should have probably beat them) and the one thing that they do that we need to do is be able to re-enter after leaving. That's huge for anyone at half wanting to go out and get a few drinks in their system. Especially if we are down 33 -0. THOSE DRINKS ARE ESSENTIAL.

Steve Hillyer 6 years, 3 months ago

You can leave and re-enter, I do it every game.

JayBoi2011 6 years, 3 months ago

I don't know that students can. I can't tell you from experience, because I usually stick around, but I've never seen anyone out there holding a hand stamp or anything for re-entry. Maybe I've just missed it.

pcutjayhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Great article by Seth Davis. Anybody know if KU has ever discussed increasing the size of Memorial Staduim? I know you have to fill it if you want to expand and back in the 90s, that was hard to do. It's been packed the last two weeks, and has been for the past couple of years, when the hawks were doing well. Anybody know?

rob4lb 6 years, 3 months ago

The article was accurate but depressing. I'm not sure you have an "if you build it, they will come scenario" with the stadium. I think KU set an attendance record a few years ago, but they it was a stretch to fill the stadium every weekend. I'm not sure that expanding the stadium to 60,000+ helps if you can't fill it. Actually empty seats look bad when a game is televised.

JayBoi2011 6 years, 3 months ago

I agree, but I think a lot of it has to do with Lawrence in general. It's a huge hassel to come to a KU game compared to say a Chiefs game (not that I'm trying to compare the two, but finding problems with our system). The biggest issue is that Lawrence doesn't have K-10 going all the way around it to reduce traffic. Have you even tried to travel here on a Gameday from KC. It's death. And to combo that, there is a lack of parking for the game, that if the stadium were upgraded to add more seats, would need that to be solved. I think that would entice more KC fans to make the trek here, especially if you could get a ticket system that would also give free parking.

Make it possible for more middle class alumni to make it here on Saturdays. Then ad some more seating.

mdfraz 6 years, 3 months ago

You think it's bad here in Lawrence for traffic? Go to a town with a stadium that seats 75 or 100,000. And K-10 not going all the way around Lawrence? I want the SLT built as much as anyone, but that would have little to no impact on gameday traffic at all.

If/when the stadium is expanded, I would guess there may be discussion about building more parking. However, unlike Monopoly, there is no free parking when it comes to football Saturdays, unless you want to walk a couple miles and/or risk getting parking tickets. That is also true in nearly every other major college football town.

As others have pointed out, it's not solely an issue of having a 50,000 seat stadium; it's also an issue of filling it. It is quite depressing to have the best year in school history and have to wait until the week leading up to the game, even later in the season, to see 50K sell out. There are probably around 2 million people living within about 150 mile radius of Lawrence, and we can't find 50,000 people to come to the games 6 times a year? That's pathetic. And having been in town about 14 years and getting 2 degrees from KU, I think a lot of it has to do with the "but we're a basketball school" mentality.

JayBoi2011 6 years, 3 months ago

I totally agree, which is why it has to be more fan friendly than other schools. We can't gouge people if those people aren't hooked on our football. The circle around lawrence would help during gamedays, as an alternative to 23rd street, even if it isn't as direct. And the free parking isn't "free" per say. It would just be in the ticket price and be easily available. It's all about convenience these days, because even NFL franchises are struggling to get people out of the HD tvs.

Steve Hillyer 6 years, 3 months ago

I'm middle class and I go to the games and parking/traffic is not much of an issue. I left Shawnee around 5:20 last week, parked on Vermont, walked to the stadium sat down just as the game started. I usually wait after the games to let traffic subside but how is that different from anyplace else. I agree we need to change the culture and outside of winning I don't know how to do that. While I agree it would be better to fill a bigger stadium not everyone in a major conference has huge stadium, each league has a hand full of 50,000 seat stadiums, in fact WSU and I think Ore.St only have 30,000 seat stadiums.

Steve Hillyer 6 years, 3 months ago

Evidence is hardly ancedotal, it did it so it is pretty solid. I've been doing it for years, I've been a season ticket holder since '92, now I was surprised I got to park on Vermont, when I come that late it is usually Mass by the park. There was supposedly 48,000 at the game so there were plenty of peeps around. It's just not that big of an issue, seems like we come up with a lot of excuses why we can't do things around here, just go to the damn games, we can sell out an alumni bball game but we come up with every reason in the book, real or imagined why we can't go to a fball game.

JayBoi2011 6 years, 3 months ago

You're right, but you also seem to be active in Kansas Football. It's not fans like you who are needed. It's the fringe ones, and they need something to get them to games, and into season tickets, which is why free guaranteed parking near the stadium for season ticket holders would be nice. I'm not saying it's solution, but it's a way to get people with families to the game, because they have priorities, and if they can remove parking from the priority list, they would be more willing to get to games. This is just in theory. I'm really just trying to stir conversation.

Eric Dawson 6 years, 3 months ago

FTR:

PAC12 -- 5 of 12 stadia > 70K Other 7 are 57K and less UofA 57,803 Oregon 53,800 Colorado 53,750 Stanford 50,000 Oregon St 45,674 Utah 45,634 Wash St 35,117

Big 10: 9 of 12 stadia are >60,000 capacity 5 are >80,000 Smallest -- Indiana 52,929 Minnesota 50,805 Northwestern 49,256

SEC today: 7 of 12 >80K (8 of 13 w/A&M) 8 of 12 >76K (9 of 13 w/A&M) Only 2 of 12 that are <60K -- Miss St 55,082 Vandy 39,790

ACC: 4 of 12 >=75K Only 2 <54,000 Duke 33,941 WF 31,500

BEast: 5 of 8 are 56K or less USF is largest @ 65,647 Pitt 65,050 WVU 60,540 UofL 56,000 Rutgers 52,454 Cuse 49,262 UConn 40,000 Cinn 35,000

Ben Kane 6 years, 3 months ago

have you ever gone to a big game @ OU? getting out of that parking takes 3 hours after the game.

JayBoi2011 6 years, 3 months ago

Yeah, but they have a football team worth waiting for. We have the burden of trying to get fans in without a top 10 program, and that means we need incentives, like better commute and parking and whatnot.

LSHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Great article by Seth Davis, what??? This guy doesnt know anymore about realigniment than you or I, he's simply expressing an opinion, nothing more, and most likely he is dead wrong as most of these SI and ESPN "insiders" are. I'm sure KU is just sitting on thier hands praying everyone stays, yea right. Its all just guessing until the OK schools tell us what they are going to do.KU WILL have options.

David Atchley 6 years, 3 months ago

Ask Baylor what the advantages are of making stadium construction decisions amidst this chaos of realignment. Seth Davis has always been an ardent supporter of KU Basketball and in that spirit, his article may be the most gracious in terms the real prospects for Kansas.

I found Seth's article most humorous in learning that Lew Perkins is "consulting" college athletic departments." However, his comments about Kansas and Kansas State being a matched pair as respects realignment was very insightful...and sobering.

It appears the Mountain West Conference may be a softer landing for Kansas, Kansas State and Iowa State and with "Versus Network" now being part of the "NBC Sports Network" perhaps some additional network revenue could be generated. Keep in-mind, one of the reasons BYU went indpendent is the last year they were in the MWC, they earned $2M from the network revenue.

Imagine the facilities and improvements Kansas could have planned and budgeted for with the Big 12 network revenue being in the neighborhhod of $17M a year.

blindrabbit 6 years, 3 months ago

Too many years of football apathy at KU, but I don't think it's the program, but more the fans!! I've attended almost all home games since 1984, and am disgusted at the way the fans (especially the students) take off for "greener pastures" in the 3rd quarter. Also, from what I observe, many KU football fans have little understanding of the game, having whetted their teeth on the technically simpler game of basketball. The grim reaper of realignment is looking down on KU's sports future with the knowledge that football has been relegated to a minor sport here.

LogicMan 6 years, 3 months ago

OK, so far on the tangible improvements list:

Expand the stadium Increase parking Improve access to/from games, via K-10 (and I-70?) Allow re-entry (or just sell beer starting at half-time?)

What else? For example, how's our facilities for the visiting team?

LogicMan 6 years, 3 months ago

Ranking is next, after developing the list and reducing it down to the feasible ones.

Ben Kane 6 years, 3 months ago

can't sell beer because the stadium is on campus.

LogicMan 6 years, 3 months ago

That can be changed. Didn't they sell beer in the union? And hard drinks in the alumni center? If so, it can be done.

With both KU and KSU "under the gun", even the legislature is or will be motivated to help do what's deemed necessary.

JayBoi2011 6 years, 3 months ago

Yeah, they used to sell at Jay bowl so there is precedent.

Ben Kane 6 years, 3 months ago

I cede to your knowledge because I don't know. I was under the impression that no college was allowed to sell alcohol at atletic events on campus per ncaa.

LogicMan 6 years, 3 months ago

"per ncaa"

That's possible, I don't know. Anyone else?

Spencer Goff 6 years, 3 months ago

They discussed it when Lew Perkins was in office. I honestly thought Big Money Lew would get it done, however he ran into "other" issues before getting it done.

texashawk10 6 years, 3 months ago

The priorities for me that would allow KU to maximize its spending on the football program would be as follows:

1) Allow alcohol sales for football games. To do this however, officials would have to be convinced to reverse the decision of KU being a "dry" campus. Revenue from alcohol sales could be used to complete construction of the new olympic village including a new track which paves the way to tear out the track at Memorial Stadium. However, I don't see this happening in the near future as I believe KU just decided to ban tobacco sales on campus within the last couple of years or are close to banning tobacco sales on campus if they haven't yet.

2a) Get the olympic village built so the track can be torn out of Memorial Stadium. This is the easiest way to add several thousand seats to the stadium. An extra 10 rows that sit 20-25 people per row depending where the section is adds about 7,000 new seats to the stadium. If adding the second tier to the bowl would be cheaper than lowering the field, I would be in favor of doing that instead, but I'm not sure how much either option would cost.

2b) Build a couple new parking garages. The parking lot next to Spencer would an ideal place to have a parking garage added while still keeping it a bus stop during the week, and the parking lot next to practice fields would also be an option, but I'm torn on that one because that's one of the best tailgating spots. Another option would be to put a parking garage over by Anderson and Potter Lake. Increasing parking adjacent to the stadium relieves some of the pressure on the shuttle service because that service isn't great because the buses congest Mississippi which is one of the main exits out of Memorial Stadium if you're parked at Spencer, the east side of the stadium, and the Union. Improved shuttle service to the Park N Ride lot or Lied Center would also be great options for those who don't have parking passes if more efficient service could happen to those two places.

As for your idea for Logicman about alcohol sales, that would never work as most football stadiums that sell alcohol cut off sales at the end of the 3rd quarter to give people time to sober up enough so they aren't a danger leaving the stadium (I realize there will always be people too drunk to drive leaving a game, but this is something that helps a lot based on my experience at Reliant Stadium).

hawksince51 6 years, 3 months ago

The most depressing thing I saw in the Seth Davis article was Perkins' admission that no conference wanted KU when the Big 12 was falling apart last year. Actually, I think I recall that the Mountain West was interested in us but that is not a very exciting option.

iluvdbskxjayhawks 6 years, 3 months ago

That's why we need to improve our football program.

hawksince51 6 years, 3 months ago

Agree but we have probably run out of time unless the Big 12/?? can hold together a few more years.

texashawk10 6 years, 3 months ago

People always seem to forget that last November, Bill Self confirmed that KU, KSU, ISU, and MU had Big East invitations had the Big 12 imploded and those schools were left out in the cold. Would that have been ideal? No, but there wouldn't be talk of expansion this year though and the Big East would be a stable option.

Ben Kane 6 years, 3 months ago

The most important (and scary) part of that SI article is Lew expounding on why KU won't leave Kstink. Personally, I would leave them behind in a heartbeat as I think most of our fans would, but it appears that it is not the state of mind of those in power.

nuleafjhawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Man! I am so glad I read that article that Matt linked to in his 1:36 pm update. I've been a KU fan all my life and I had NO idea that James Naismith's middle name was " Frickin ".

Live and learn, I guess.

FlintHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Yeah. I'm so out of it I didn't get it for a few seconds. Google tells us that he had no middle name but used the letter "A." I think he would have loved the middle name Davis anointed him with.

blindrabbit 6 years, 3 months ago

Just some observations: Still say fan apathy; granted too many poor seasons! But since 1991, KU has participated in 6 (and won 5) bowl games! Attendance has not gained as would be expected with this success. It seems that there is little long-term carryover! I think this is especially apparent with KU students (my seats are on the East side), who are more than willing to wait out the chance to attend a maybe lopsided BB game

Interestingly, the bowl games have been pretty well attended by KU fans reflecting that there is a loyal (but limited) fan base. Good KU crowds at both Orange and Insight Bowls

Much of K-State's success has been related to selling the football program as a family event "Bill Snyder Family Stadium"; maybe KU needs to follow suit. As much as I like a beer, to sell on campus is a bad idea. I've attended the KU-Oklahoma and 2 of the KU-MU games at Arrowhead; I would not consider these "family events" due to the inebriated and obnoxious crowd.

hawksince51 6 years, 3 months ago

Matt, based on the SI article and other stuff I have read recently, I'm afraid your percentage wheel is too optimistic and has a flaw. It shows a 100% chance that no matter what KU ends up in a major (BCS) conference. I would give us about a 20% chance of ending up in "Other" which would be non-BCS. Presumably your Big 12 would stay at 40% accepting that as the real chance that the conference continues; but all the others would need to be reduced accordingly. Just sayin'.

Matt Tait 6 years, 3 months ago

Don't read too much into the SI article. There's some good stuff in there but not all of it is accurate.

As for my optimism, I don't have a rooting interest here. Honestly. I'm just trying to give you my at-that-moment impression of where things were at.

Funny you mention it, though, because looking back, I did think it was a little high. But not because of optimism. And not because of a belief that KU will get left out of the mix. They will be in one of the big conferences when all this settles. It's just a matter of which one and how quickly.

I just updated my wheel above.

Stay tuned...

gccs14r 6 years, 3 months ago

The time to have improved the stadium was back when they put in the practice fields. They should have moved the whole football complex off campus to someplace with good highway access and with acres of space available for parking. Any problems with getting the athletes back and forth from campus could have been solved with a shuttle bus.

trey 6 years, 3 months ago

I like Seth Davis. He seems to appreciate our history and complimentary of KU and Bill Self. I'm hoping that he's doing us a favor by advocating that BGL, Zenger, key Alums, and the BOR get their "ass in gear" and aggressively find us the right conference.

I hope that we're not just waiting around a praying that Texas and OU "save the conference" for us. They are not going to, and we'll be in a weaker position once that's even more visible to the other conferences.

I don't agree with his view that going to the PAC would weaken KU Hoops. Yes, we might lose some East Coast recruits, but we wouldn't get shut out. And typically we're signing 3-4 kids per year.

I would much rather recruit to a conference schedule that includes... UCLA, Arizona, Stanford, USC, Washington, Utah, and likely OU, OSU, Texas or Missouri (all have good hoops history).

Then a conference schedule that includes... Cincinatti, Louisville, South Florida, TCU, K-State, Iowa State, Baylor, and some hoops-only schools. And no it's not a typo... Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, W. Virginia won't be on the schedule.

And I'd far rather have a piece of the PAC football money (to feed the entire athletic dept budget), than a piece of the tiny BigE contract.

While the PAC wouldn't be my top choice, it's night and day better than the Big East. I'd rank them...

1 Choice: go to the BIG, with MU and pick two (ND, Texas, Syracuse, Pitt).

2 Choice: go to the PAC, with OU, OSU and pick one (Texas or Missouri).

3 Choice: go to the ACC (don't think there is any chance of this, but would like it).

4 Choice: stay in Big12, with current teams + BYU (and more equal rev sharing).

Last Choice: limp over to BigE, with K-State, Iowa State, Baylor (how depressing).

The PAC has the fewest expansion options and as such, where we may have the most leverage. Call the PAC today and get it done.

justinryman 6 years, 3 months ago

Songs lyrics ging through the heads of the Board of Regents from OU.

From The Clash:

Should I stay or should I go now? Should I stay or should I go now? If I go there will be trouble An’ if I stay it will be double So come on and let me know!

This indecision’s bugging me Esta indecision me molesta If you don’t want me, set me free Si no me quieres, librame Exactly whom I’m supposed to be Dime que tengo que ser Don’t you know which clothes even fit me? ¿sabes que ropas me quedan? Come on and let me know Me tienes que decir Should I cool it or should I blow? ¿me debo ir o quedarme?

trey 6 years, 3 months ago

If the PAC doesn't get Texas, they're not taking TTech. So how do they get to 16 teams?

OU + OSU: Check

hmmm, where do they go next?

BYU: Nope, Religous orientation. New Mexico, NM State: Nope, suck at everything. Nevado: Nope, ditto. Boise: I guess possible, but don't really thinks so. Football + nothing else. Other Mtn West or WAC Schools: Nope, don't see it.

Kansas: Check, Top 5 hoops, recognizable brand, AAU School, maybe NCI.

Missouri: Check, good football and hoops, AAU School, Border War, St. Louis Market.

K-State: Possible, but only if MU not available.

Make the call to the PAC and get it done.

Jeff Coffman 6 years, 3 months ago

I could see them going after a Texas team, even if it isn't UT, just like the SEC went after ATM, they didn't get UT, but they got a team for their footprint.

I also, think that OSU is not a done deal in the PAC.

I've also heard it isn't because BYU is religious, but more because they actually follow keeping the Sabbath Day Holy, meaning they won't schedule games on Sunday. So although saying it is religious is true, I don't think it is wise to have the PAC 12 discrimating based on religion (I don't think they are doing that).

Eric Dawson 6 years, 3 months ago

Last year there was a lot of discussion that the majority of the totally secular (and all state schools but for Stanford and USC) Pac10 schools did not want Baylor forced down their throat by the Texas bloc, so they offered a much more palatable CU first and then snatched up Utah instead of offering BYU when the Texas schools passed. "Sources" reported BU being a religious school was a part of the issue, for whatever that's worth. And since most college FB games are NOT played on Sunday (hard to compete with that little thing called the NFL), the Sunday argument seems a little weak. As to wanting to keep the business associations secular -- i.e., no school admitted as a member which espouses a specific religion as part of their charter -- I think you would have a hard time getting that ruled as illegal discrimination in any US court, especially since all of the schools, state and private, have people of all religions working and studying at their institutions,

Given the above, it would seem that BYU (again) and TCU (with tu and A&M gone, the only other Texas school really worth having, being in the DFW market) are out of the picture. Would they want Houston? Great market and they get the recruiting footprint, but everything else tells me no.

Ben Kane 6 years, 3 months ago

matt,

I was at VT just before they changed conferences (before i transferred to kansas) and i recall uva being the only no vote.

Ben Kane 6 years, 3 months ago

okay, looking at dates i was there quite a bit before they went to acc, but i still think uva voted no.

Matt Tait 6 years, 3 months ago

Very well could be true. I'll have to dig around and see what I can find out.

Just what I was told today... Thanks, though.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 3 months ago

http://www.vtmagazine.vt.edu/fall04/feature3.html

Virginia Tech people seem to think UVA got them in. I cannot find an actual vote though, and I'm not sure that is public record.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 3 months ago

Wiki is posting that it was 7 of 9 members, so two said no. However, I cannot find a reliable source from that claim. But they did have a link to a solid article from a VT site talking about owing their membership to UVA, so tough to say.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 3 months ago

LOL, I was gonna say that "Duke and UNC probably voted no because they are elitist." And it appears I was correct.

Kevin Randell 6 years, 3 months ago

Ok....my question is....if all of this shake down is going to happen, then why is the Big East (or as I like to call it Big XII east because it seems to have a bleak future as well) is on the radar?

I have this feeling.....that once the Pac, SEC, and ACC start gobbling up teams the Big 10 is going to jump in. So, here are my predictions:

Pac 25% ACC 25% Big 10 25% Sec 15% Big Least 10%

Keep in mind guys....if we go down to ACC country this weekend and beat Georgia Tech we will raise some eyebrows. Keep in mind we ARE 1-0 in BCS bowl games in the last 5 years.

Let's keep the glass half full people! :)

Jeff Coffman 6 years, 3 months ago

4-0 in all bowl games in the last ten years.

texashawk10 6 years, 3 months ago

A little revisionist history there? KU is 3-1 in the last 4 bowl appearences, Philip Rivers NC State team killed KU in 2003.

blindrabbit 6 years, 3 months ago

The Stanford crowd would belittle BYU to death; already Notre Dame's worst nightmare when they play in Palo Alto. Not much religious attachment at The Cardinal, or even in the conference.

Going back a ways, but if we ever had a friend in the PAC (whatever) it was Chancellor Frankin Murphy. After he left KU for President at UCLA, he never forgot his KU ties, and he carried a lot of clout out there.

From a academic POV, can't see Boise, K-State, Okie-State, Texes Tech. fitting into PAC-12! New Mexico's, Nevada, UNLV, Colorado State ditto and too small sports programs.

Rock Chalk (hopefully) moving West as Horace Greeley advocated!

hawksince51 6 years, 3 months ago

In Matt's latest update he says the talk in ACC country is that they ..."believe the superconference scenario is about to be upon us. Not surprisingly, they tend to believe that, when it goes down, the four conferences that house the cream of the crop will be the Pac-16, Big Ten, SEC and some combo of the Big East and ACC. The general consensus down here is that the Big 12 is dead."
If that is accurate, I would have to think that KU, even with a mediocre football program, would get included in the 64.

justinryman 6 years, 3 months ago

5:18 update

Just waiting........

Matt you're doing a great job!!! Im guessing you are resting Sunday so you can type like the wind on Monday and Tuesday???

LogicMan 6 years, 3 months ago

That's probably not good news about UT meeting too on Monday night. It sounds as if they are planning a joint announcement.

Hammertoe 6 years, 3 months ago

Kansasans have a difficult time understading that college basketball isn't as popular in other parts of the country! Very few college basketball teams sell out home games even when their teams are ranked. My friends in Texas couldn't care less about college basketball. They are too busy reading about football recruits while we are focused on basketball. Some interesting comments from Lew Perkins in the attached SI article about KU Basketball found on CNN SI.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011...

FreeRider 6 years, 3 months ago

Beginning of the end . . . .

As some expected, the Pac-16 announcements should occur by the 22nd.

Call the Big East, STAT!

FlintHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Trying to catch up on today's news, or lack thereof. The Seth Davis piece is about the most depressing thing I've read to-date.

"Why you settle for whatever when we're pose to be. Tears running down your face. They form the sea? Why you settle for whatever when we're pose to be."

FlintHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

On second thought, this is even more depressing: one tiny paragraph out of Tramel's long article:

"The Big 12? Ugh. I know a lot of people think the Big 12 should try to stick it out, but are the Sooners some kind of captain, going down with the ship? This conference is in flames, and if you love all this conference realignment stuff, pray the Big 12 sticks together, because next year, the same thing will happen. The league is broken. Broken beyond repair. We can debate whose fault that is another day. But it’s broken."

He may be right. Davis may be right. But, man, this drivel is hard to take!

BarkingHawk 6 years, 3 months ago

Does anyone think our basketball recruiting doesn't suffer by going west? Does anyone think our football recruiting helps going anywhere but with Texas wherever it goes?

I have family all over southern California, most of whom are KU grads and big basketball fans. They (and West Coast recruits) watch all of the KU games televised there, regardless of the time zone they are played in because, hello . . . , they're awake!

But anybody's 7:00 PST starts in the Pac 12 are 10:00 p.m. starts in the east. Eastern recruits and basketball fans will watch an 8:00 CST game, because, hey, it's still only 9:00 there. But few will watch EST 10:00 starts (at least to the finish). This is huge. Make that HUGE. (And how about those 8:00 PST starts beginning at 11:00 in the east?)

Even here in the CST, the people who post here, mostly CST residents, might stay up until midnite to catch a late Pac 12 game with KU in it, but many KU fans (and practically everybody else in this time zone who would otherwise have a passing interest in watching a reasonable starting hour, KU basketball game or other Pac 12 game) will check out before the game is very far in or over. I can't imagine how this helps KU, Bill Self or the fan base, much less those in the Pac 12 who want to draw in the 35th laragest market (Kansas City) most tied to KU. I'm a Jayhawk through and through, but let's get real here. The Pac 12 just doesn't work for our crown jewel basketball program, and we're not even talking about football or the minor sports. The time zone factor is simply enormous.

As to football, we live and die in Texas. That's live and die, folks. Look at our roster, not just this year, but every year, regardless of the coach. Consequently, if Texas goes east, we have to go east. Whether it's with a combination of Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor or TCU, we've got to stay connected somehow to the feeder state of our football program, whether anybody likes it or not. Over time, if OU and OSU jump west without Texas, their own recruiting could eventually suffer, at least marginally, and we could benefit at that margin, or more as the case may be.

All that said, and if the Big 12 (still the optimum arrangement if administrators/regents, etc. would get over themselves) dissolves, the best overall scenario is with Texas, either to the ACC or, somehow, some way the Big Ten. Otherwise, practically speaking, if not joyously welcomed, it's the Big East.

But, one way or the other, and as much as I like more things west, east it has to be. Think about it.

Spencer Goff 6 years, 3 months ago

It should be noted that when Lew was dealing with this everybody was in "OH NOOOOOOOES!" mode. Things are different this time. And although the pressure to remain with Kansas State might be there, if it comes down to a bad situation for the University of Kansas I am confident that BGL will do what is economically best for KU.

It should also be noted that last year it never got to the phase that KU would have had an offer. The Big Ten and Pac 12 made their plays, after that it stopped. Phase 2 is when KU gets snagged, and we never had it last year.

Once OU and UT say, "OK, we are applying here," then KU starts getting busy.

The two hottest chicks are still at the party and arguing. When they get in a hoochie fight and roll off in separate cars THAT is when KU looks like the girl you want to take home. She's cool. She hangs out. She puts out. She is just happy to hang out and drink a beer with you. No drama, no expectations.

Hell, marry that girl.

Kevin Randell 6 years, 3 months ago

Krohnutz- that is one of the funniest descriptions I have ever read about my alma mater. True...and I like it!....but funny never the less. Keep it coming!

ejlumus 6 years, 3 months ago

Marry the girl from the east coast and take little brother with us!!!!!!!!!!!!!

iluvdbskxjayhawks 6 years, 3 months ago

lol@ your comment! I agree. Take little purple bro with us!

blindrabbit 6 years, 3 months ago

After all this speculation about where KU lands, we'll all be disappointed if the Big-12 survives. If it does, we'll all be going through this again next year. Best bet for our future and stability is to get away from the Longhorns; even though Austin is a great city.

FLJHK 6 years, 3 months ago

  1. We want to dismiss the Seth Davis perspective but in fact it states many of our underlying fears.

  2. No matter the immediate future of the Big 12, if the 4, 16-team superconference scenario is as inevitible as many predict, it is certain that the Big 12 is not one of them. So no matter that we certainly deserve a place among the chosen 64 teams based upon virtually all rational factors, it's not the best 64 that will gain a place. Those currently residing in stable conferences, including many of less stature than KU, are not likely to be kicked out. Thus the position of KU is precarious indeed.

Jeff Kilgore 6 years, 3 months ago

I, like you, see Davis' article as having some real truth. Tait downplays it with the "more clout than he thinks" argument, but without evidence. Also, it appears that our leaders are either quietly and desperately getting nowhere or they just don't get it. I hope it's the latter. Also, KSU is a millstone around KU's neck in this realignment circus, and that's no knock on KSU, another institution that gets left out for greed.

I just have to believe that one of the big conferences will look at KU like the true value it is and extend an invitation. Furthermore, this issue is so vast and has such huge impact that it's taking away the fall sports season from us. I am not thinking about GT--just the conference alignment.

FLJHK 6 years, 3 months ago

Great point about taking away the fall sports season; I couldn't agree more. But the institutional significance of the alignment issue simply overwhelms all else.

Although I haven't lived in Kansas for more than two decades, K-State remains my second favorite university, and I hope things end up well for them. But if there are 100 things for KU to be concerned with in this whole issue, the welfare of KSU has to rank somewhere around 99th.

Eric Dawson 6 years, 3 months ago

You downplay what BGL and SZ are doing because you don't hear them shooting their mouths off about KU in public. This to you seems to be evidence they are not doing anything, but it is really no evidence of anything at all. We read they are both working the behind the scenes, and that SZ in particular is always on the phone talking this issue with someone no matter where he is.

The reality is that while KU is not the ugly step-sister in this drama, she's not the prettiest girl at the dance, either, so BGL and SZ are working the "what ifs". Allowing for that, what the heck do you want them to say, when everything they are working at the moment is conditioned on whether or not OU goes?

And if OU and OSU go, I want BGL and SZ to get KU as far away from tu as possible, even if tu wants to rebuild on what's left. The only exception would be if tu agreed to equal revenue sharing on everything, to include the LHN becoming the B12N. Even then, I'd have my attorneys examining any arrangement that keeps KU with tu with the best of magnifying glasses.

Jeff Kilgore 6 years, 3 months ago

Matt, why aren't KU's leaders talking? What is going on? Do they refuse interviews? Why is there nothing to report? This is the biggest KU sports story of my life, (I was born in '59), and there's really nothing said anywhere.

Are we supposed to take this as our insignificance as a school? As fans?

Matt Tait 6 years, 3 months ago

They aren't talking because it's very important that KU play the part of the loyal conference member and not ruffle any feathers right now. Because this is driven by football, it's not in KU's best interest to be the lead dog here and start barking the loudest.... especially with leadership in place that is so new compared to the rest of the schools.

As for the nothing to report part, there really isn't. I know things are happening and I know all options are being considered but I also know that none of the specifics on that are going to get out right now. KU has been in contact with and contacted by several other conferences during the past few weeks, as has every other school in the Big 12 and many others throughout the country. But it's not like KU is going to be the one who leaves the Big 12 while it's still in existence.

Before KU even thinks about going anywhere they want to see what becomes of the Big 12. If it lives, they stay and work like mad to make the league strong again. If it dissolves then they'll decide which conference is the best to go to and that's when what they're doing and thinking and planning will be news and reported on as such.

Hang in there. I know it's dragging on but patience is the key for KU in all of this.

Matt Tait 6 years, 3 months ago

I've talked to a lot of people about this during the last several weeks, both at Kansas and elsewhere... Most, if not all, agree that KU's playing this thing right.

I do agree with it, but my opinion's irrelevant here.

Being too aggressive is more likely to backfire than showing patience.

DallasJayhawk1 6 years, 3 months ago

Yeah I agree, Matt. It's not our place to stick our necks out since it's a football power play--these are huge decisions that can impact local, economy, a school's brand, alumni, future students. It's not like it's an ebay order. Cooler heads usually prevail--and that's just what we are doing.

texashawk10 6 years, 3 months ago

You really want KU acting like Missouri did last summer when the Big 10 made them look like idiots? KU doesn't have the power to dictate where they go.

FreeRider 6 years, 3 months ago

Here we go! OU and UT likely to Pac (along with OSU and Tech) and ACC goes after Syracuse and Pitt — very interesting!

http://nyti.ms/oBLVQK

Eric Dawson 6 years, 3 months ago

EXCELLENT NEWS re: the ACC going after Pitt and 'Cuse! Now, ACC please add Rutgers in particular, and possibly UConn, to your list to shore up your own conference walls against incursions from the B1G and the SEC while simultaneously robbing the B1G of any and all BE schools it would find acceptable for membership.

Of course, if the ACC is crazy enough to really consider adding tu, well, they've had fair warning.

I just want KU as far from tu as possible.

David Atchley 6 years, 3 months ago

Perhaps the brain-trust at Kansas is being cleverly absent and silent as they're part of the rogue movement, underground, ninja-like that is plotting to secede from the NCAA and ultimately form a nationwide conference that actually crowns a true national champion.

Jeff Coffman 6 years, 3 months ago

I still think where ever UT goes, KU will go.

My guess: ACC-40% PAC-25% BIG 10-15% Big East-10% Big 12-5% SEC-5%

UT goes to ACC, so does KU, needs a POD.
UT goes to PAC12, than PAC gets picky and lets OSU/TTU go. Picks up KU and MU, they are first to act. UT goes to BIG 10, Big Ten starts expanding west. Because Missouri is picked up by the SEC, they look to KU, they grab Syracuse and still waiting for ND (that might take a year or two). Big East - if we don't go with UT for some reason (UT goes independent or joins the SEC). Big XII - Some type of Miracle, but the key is the big XII needs to go down to 4 or less team, this voids the TV contract, and basically because of the money, you will see 6 teams minimum pulled from the Big XII. I see KSU, ISU, BU, KU, TTU, OSU some of the last teams picked up (no surprise), but keep in mind 6 of the original have to be separated or the exit fees will be so huge and money left will be a huge lose for FOX, they will most assuredly make sure there is not a Big XII if UT is not in it.

SEC - I would hate the most, but some teams might actually be quicker to react, if KU is left, they might pick us up to enhance their basketball activities. They have had UF and UK, but they wouldn't mind making it more. I

Eric Dawson 6 years, 3 months ago

"I still think where ever UT goes, KU will go."

Oh man, I so hope our leadership is not that stupid!

Spencer Goff 6 years, 3 months ago

So the sports ticker is saying that Pitt and Syracuse are looking at joining the ACC.

To me, the ACC is recognizing that it is going against the Big East for that final "superconference" spot. That two schools are directly going after it has me pondering what this means for KU.

The only thought I had that KU might ever end up in the ACC was in a package deal with Texas, so this doesn't change a whole lot in regards to the ACC. I never considered the ACC a huge player for us. However...

A Big East minus Pitt and Syracuse looks less and less impressive if that is where KU ends up. Actually, it looks pretty bleak.

It also removes one of the biggest names that gets dropped for the Big 10. Pitt was always that "rumored" school the Big 10 (along with Rutgers) would snap up.

Does this effectively close our small door to the ACC? Does it open up that small door to the Big 10? Does the Big East separate and reform with the remainders of football programs, finally realizing that the non-football schools are dragging them under?

Spin the wheel ragedy man!

Steve Hillyer 6 years, 3 months ago

Good point about opening a spot in the Big 10, I've heard both Pitt and Syracuse mentioned for that conference so that could remove two obstacles. Who would be left for the Big 10 if this shakes out?

Eric Dawson 6 years, 3 months ago

On the east coast, NO ONE with the academic cred and FBS status that the B1G would be looking for if the ACC got 'Cuse and Pitt and Rutgers. Those moves would also shore up the existing ACC, making it very unlikely any ACC members would want to jump to either the B1G (Terps have been mentioned as a target) or the SEC (FSU has been mentioned as a target).

Steve Hillyer 6 years, 3 months ago

I don't think the Big East is a very desirable location for KU and with Syracuse and Pitt in talks with the ACC it makes it even less desirable. I guess this means if the Big 12 stays together you can scratch Pitt off the list of expansion candidates.

jgkojak 6 years, 3 months ago

I still don't understand why the 5 remaining B12 schools don't hold a press conf. and say:

1) According to charter 5 teams remaining =B12 2) We're calling a meeting and we're voting on a resolution that all B12 teams must declare their intentions by Oct 1, 2011 to remain. 3) The 5 of us and whoever else declares their intentions will remain a league and collect all those exit fees. 4) We will then invite up to 7 schools to be a part of this new B12.

How simple- seize the power. Make the Big East football schools make a decision - come to the B12 or be swallowed up eventually. We get TCU, S FLorida, Louisville and Cinci, and probably BYU and Air Force. There's your league - not perfect but we've preserved the B12 for 2-3 more years until the B10 decides to act.

Jeff Coffman 6 years, 3 months ago

Rest assured that the TV deals will make sure that 6 teams from the Big XII are poached.

OU, UT, ATM are for sure.

TTU will be picked up.

KU, MU are going to be targets.

OSU will be picked up, if they don't PAC, the SEC will grab them.

ISU, KSU, BU are left in the cold. Without 5 teams it won't matter. Believe me, KU would rather get into a conference than collect a temporary windfall, likewise MU.

Right now I think 7 will be picked off. The PAC is going to take 4 of them, just which 4. The SEC will probably take 2. There is no way there are 5 teams left in the Big XII and that is why your vision is not going to work.

I do think SFU becomes in play for some team that wants a florida footprint.

Laurence Cooley 6 years, 3 months ago

now that the news about syracuse and pitt to the acc broke, does that increase or decrease the chances of ku to the big east or the acc?

FreeRider 6 years, 3 months ago

... Or, it could simply mean that Pitt and Syracuse could replace some departing ACC schools. The ACC is certainly poachable by the B1G and SEC.

Randy Bombardier 6 years, 3 months ago

This could really screw things up. As long as the BigE was stable I was not worried about the Big going for Rutgers. If ND gets antsy now they could very well get ND and Rutgers. This could change everything, creating the perfect storm of realignment.

LogicMan 6 years, 3 months ago

You people need to get some sleep! But yes, it's hard to do while worrying about this and the future of KU, KSU, ISU, and MU.

adisonvc 6 years, 3 months ago

Matt, with the rumors that Syracuse and Pittsburg are in talks with the Big East, is there a chance we would go to the Big East if they leave? Might as well as stay in a reconfigured Big 12 if that is the case.

LogicMan 6 years, 3 months ago

Yes, and nicely raid the Big East-2, MWC, etc. for teams. Even if OU and or UT go away.

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