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Realignment Today: UT to ACC gaining steam, plus east or west for Kansas?

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7:49 p.m. Update:

So, we're down to this. Unless there's some major news in the next couple of days, we'll spend at least the next 72-96 hours linking to columns and analysis of this whole mess.

I'm sure somebody, somewhere, will say something, but it's not likely to be very credible. The every-man-for-himself arena that we're currently in makes it that way. Sure the Texas writers can give good Texas news. Just the same as those of us who cover KU and Missouri can speak to what those schools are thinking. But the truth of the matter is this: Nobody knows what the other guy is going to do or say. So for UT officials to talk about OU or for K-State officials to talk about KU is a crapshoot at best.

That said, here's a great column from Matt Hayes, of The Sporting News, that sums up exactly how we got here.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-09-14/texas-drove-everyone-away-now-begging-for-acc-acceptance

Stay tuned...

5:45 p.m. Update:

Here's a story by SI.com's Michael Rosenberg that says "If the Big 12 blows up, everybody loses."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/michael_rosenberg/09/14/big-12-realignment/index.html?eref=twitter_feed

Not since Mavericks owner Mark Cuban sounded off a little more than a week ago about how how the Big 12 should stay together, has someone made such a rational statement regarding this mess.

I was talking with someone last night about how unbelievable it is that this league is on the verge of folding. It had everything you wanted. Great football. Good basketball with a national darling. Strong performance in ALL of the other sports. Everything but camaraderie and unity. At least where it counts.

Remember, as much as it may be easy to do, the finger of blame does not belong pointed at Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe or the league's athletic directors here. Alums and higher ups have driven this whole thing down a dangerous path, and now, not only is their vehicle running out of gas, but it's starting to have a tough time seeing the city lights.

Long way to go. Stay tuned...

5:32 p.m. Update:

Want to read more about the proposed pod system in the ACC? Here's a link that discusses what it could look like.

http://www.bcinterruption.com/2011/9/13/2422993/ncaa-conference-realignment-texas-to-acc

Think the Texas to the ACC rumors are bogus? So does Jeff Schultz of the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2011/09/14/texas-to-acc-something-tells-me-conference-being-used/

Stay tuned...

4:10 p.m. Update:

Let's try this again... 60 seconds with Keegan and Tait. We discuss whether a future Big 12 is better off with or without Texas in it.

2:51 p.m. Update:

Couple of quick things after lunch a few more phone calls.

There seems to be a large number of you who can't see how in the world the Big 12 could possibly survive all of this. It's all about Texas - again.

I've been told by a league source that many universities within the Big 12 are now operating under the assumption that OU is leaving — more of a defense mechanism than an absolution — and that, while they still hold out hope the conference can be saved, with or without OU, they're not going to put all their eggs in the Sooners' basket one way or the other.

That's where Texas comes in. If the Longhorns really are looking at moving to the ACC, that could be a better offer than anything the Big 12 could present and that could be the end of it. If not — and it's my guess that the ACC rumors are a bit of a bluff — then the best situation for Texas would be to stick with the Big 12, add three or five teams to bolster the numbers and move on from there.

The question for the conference's six dwarves then becomes: Do you trust that Texas won't do this again in 2012, when they look at all the fun in the sun the Sooners are having and get jealous.

Million-dollar question right there. With an answer worth even more.

In other news... I Tweeted this last night, but here's a link to a story from Orlando that discusses Florida State University putting together a conference expansion committee.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/breakingnews/os-florida-state-sec-0914-20110914,0,7774579.story

Not gonna read too much into that, but these things usually don't happen in this formal a manner unless they need to. Should be interesting to see if others follow suit. Of course, maybe some have and just don't feel the need to announce it.

Oh, the fun.

Stay tuned...

12:18 p.m. Update:

Just got off the phones with a couple of different people and, while it continues to look like OU might very well be leaning toward the Pac-12, the one thing that's clear in all of this is that nothing is clear.

But how could it be?

You've got nine different schools acting in their own best interests here. Several of them may share some common ground, but one source told me that at the end of the day even that only goes up to a certain point.

As for Kansas' place in all of this, AD Sheahon Zenger and chancellor Bernadette Gray-Little continue to be heavily involved in all angles of this thing. KU continues to push for the survival of the Big 12 but, by now, it seems clear that Kansas officials are considering all options and all outcomes.

One Big 12 source told me not to consider the league dead just yet. Texas is entertaining its many options right now — ACC, Pac-12 and Big Ten among them — but one of them remains moving forward with the Big 12. Not sure where that stands on UT's priority list but it's in there.

That's all for now. Here's my updated percentage wheel... for now.

  1. Big 12 - 33%
  2. Big East - 27%
  3. ACC - 18%
  4. Pac-12 - 12%
  5. Big Ten - 10%

Stay tuned... 10:36 a.m. Update:

Here's a good read from Pac-12 country, via Jon Wilner's College Hotline blog. Wilner's another name who's been all over this story and he's got some good info in the blog. He also takes a couple of shots, which is interesting to see from a guy who doesn't cover UT and the Big 12 very much. Good read.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2011/09/13/pac-12-football-the-latest-on-expansion/

Couple of the highlights, in case you don't have time to scan it:

There have been discussions between Oklahoma and Pac-12 officials, but nothing of a formal nature will happen until Texas A&M joins the SEC. Nothing. Larry Scott won’t make the first move toward superconference status.

In fact, Scott has positioned himself perfectly against potential super-conference backlash from fans, media, the NCAA or university presidents nationwide.

He can always say, “We were happy at 12. We weren’t looking to expand. The SEC made the first move. Mike Slive has been the predator, not me.”

And this:

The Oklahoma schools are almost certain to receive an invitation to the Pac-12 if they apply for admission.

Multiple sources have told the Hotline that Scott believes the conference must expand — to 14 and perhaps 16 — in order to protect itself in the future when the SEC and Big Ten are both at 14+.

Despite grumbling from Colorado and others, Scott will have the votes he needs to add the Oklahoma schools.

Stay tuned...

9:43 a.m. Update:

Good morning all. Time for another round of Realignment Today. We learned a lot yesterday — at least in a relative sense — and it's looking more and more like OU and OSU are heading west.

Having said that, for every report out there that indicates it's a done deal, you'll hear or read something else that quotes Lee Corso and says, "Not so fast, my friend."

At this point, it's hard to know what's legit and what isn't. But we're getting there.

Just talked to some folks this morning who said that OU still seems hellbent on heading to the Pac-12, but there might be some hesitation on OSU's part. I'd be shocked if the Cowboys and Sooners split — SHOCKED — but I guess it could happen.

Last week, after Baylor's bold move put the brakes on all this for a little while, I was told that the conference came together a little bit. Sure, OU and UT were still fighting, but the threat of lawsuits and Baylor standing up for itself brought the rest of the league closer together. I guess it's possible that Oklahoma State was included in that group.

Time will tell.

For now, though, the one thing I'd say looks pretty certain is that OU and UT are tired of each other. Done. Finished. Kaput.

One report I saw indicated that Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe was going to make a hail mary plea to the Sooners today. If true, that could actually get somewhere because it's likely to include a sweet deal for OU. At this point, that's the only way the Sooners will stay, if they get a Texas-sized sweetheart deal. The question then becomes.... does the rest of the league really want TWO teams with Texas' power?

Guess the answer depends on how terrified you are about a future without the Big 12.

OK, let's dive into today's first few links.

Chip Brown, of Orangebloods.com, has been reporting for the last 18 hours about a Texas-to-the-ACC scenario having legs. Here's his latest update on that.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1264923

Brown mentions Kansas a couple of times in the recap and sources have told me that KU could be a real possibility for the ACC if the Big 12 falls apart. At this point, I'd think the ACC landing UT would be a must for KU to get over there.

Next up, we've got a blog from Berry Tramel, of The Daily Oklahoman, that explores the possible scheduling set-up in a 16-team Pac-12. See how far down this road OU's gone? Even their beat guys are talking scheduling logistics.

http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2011/09/14/ou-football-options-for-pac-16-scheduling/

Lastly, for now, here's a nice recap from sports analyst Greg Swaim, who gives a quick team-by-team recap of where each Big 12 school could head, east or west. There's nothing groundbreaking in here but it's nice and tidy and presents a pretty compact look at each scenario.

http://gregswaim.com/2011/09/east-or-west-where-do-big-12-teams-land/

More to come. As always, stay tuned...

Comments

manginorh00lz 8 years ago

Two superpowers = cold war at least.

We need to get out of this mess and go to the PAC. KU should just make the first move. KU and MU to the PAC and let the Big 12 crumble behind.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years ago

KU has no first move to make. Sure, if the PAC makes a first move and offers KU-MU to try to get UT to jump, great! Unless that happens, we're stuck waiting.

trey 8 years ago

I agree, and have been saying it for two weeks... KU's best move is a "first move". Freaking quit waiting for Texas and Oklahoma (and their oversized egos) to make their decisions. The Big12 is toast. A first-move KU to PAC, would shortly be followed by OU/OSU. The TTech risk would be removed. And the last spot would then be optioned first to Texas, 2nd to MU. Either way a GREAT conference.

Laurence Cooley 8 years ago

i have heard mumbles and grumbles (and in all of this, it most likely means nothing) that T B Pickens has upset the pac 12 (although i dont know if its larry scott or the pac12 presidents and chancellors) and if ku and mu are offered first, it could be a way to lock out osu like they did with baylor last year. just play along for a second; if ku and mu sign on to the pac12 THEN ou and ut are offered the last two spots, then that gives the pac four more states for their network and all schools meet the academic requirements (which is a concern about osu and tx tech). but then again, its all just speculation...like most of this realignment stuff.

Bville Hawk 8 years ago

per manginorh00lz: "KU should just make the first move."

Don't we have to wait for an invitation first? Or are you advocating we do what MU did last year when they all but announced publicly that they were going to the Big 10?

Kyle Sybesma 8 years ago

First of all A&M made the first move. Second we have a pending lawsuit on A&M. Third and most important, we can't make a move unless someone accepts it. The PAC isn't going to take anyone until OU commits. If it's that easy let's declare us playing in the Orange bowl. Did you hear that everyone? We're playing in the Orange Bowl this year.

hailtoku 8 years ago

KU is waiting for an invite, not the other way around.

LogicMan 8 years ago

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail, and the Big 12 stays together and expands.

But if not, I could see OSU (the former Oklahoma A&M) having big problems aligning with the Left Coast, just like Texas A&M. They hopefully are encouraging OU to stay in the Big 12 with them, but if not, for both to go to the SEC. Lastly, to split and go to the SEC alone.

Ted Adams 8 years ago

It wasn't well put together, true, BUT if you get through this, you have equal revenue sharing across the board which has been the problem since day one (this has already been fixed, so don't argue that point), and you have tons of $$$ to start taking applications for entry into the league. It all hinges on OU first. If they stay, the Big XII WILL remain and the league adds teams immediately. Just watch. If OU goes, then UT is up next. They can stay, keep the LHN, and get whomever they want to join and share all the windfall with the remaining 7 or 8. They leave, then your down to 5-6, and the leftovers still hold the TV contract and can collect all the exit fees. Merge with the Big East football schools, keep the Big XII name to keep the TV $$$, and everyone gets to play in the MMMP (mega million$ money pile).

Ted Toulouse 8 years ago

What I would like to see is the Big 8 schools packing up their toys, leaving the Texas schools behind and merging with the PAC or B1G. Let UT clean up the mess they created last year. And yes, Texas is to blame for ALL of this.

If Beebe is making a last-ditch effort, it should include a proposal for a Big 12 Network. This is what should have happened in the first place last year and it was extremely disappointing to see not only that not happen, but that the LHN was allowed.

Not to mention more equal revenue sharing...

Hank Cross 8 years ago

Go east Bevo! And we'll be in the P12 for sure.

The P12 doesn't have any options besides KU/MU if UT goes to ACC if the P12 wants to be a 16 team superconference.

SDSU, Fresno state - The P12 CA schools don't want state schools, don't really bring in any new markets.

BYU, TCU, Baylor - Long standing bias against religious schools. Why do you think they admitted CU so fast last year? They wanted the Buffs to take Baylor's invite, which was probably insincerely made for political reasons.

AFA - See BYU, etc. x 10 in the case of Cal.

Boise State - Weak academics, no FB long tradition, not big enough market.

Nevada, UNLV - No strong academics or athletics. Not enough of new markets.

HI - break glass in case of fire.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years ago

The ACC has to bite first, and you can damn well bet any expansion scenario is going to include KU at a minimum, which means KU (most likely (KU-MU) is going to have a decision to make. If the ACC is willing to take UT, KU, MU and KSU, I think we'll go east. I think we make a lot more money going west, but KU would have a tough time explaining why they didn't throw KSU a lifeline. The only way that doesn't work is if MU balks at the ACC and wants to go PAC.

I agree this really puts the PAC in a bad position, not to mention the Oklahoma schools. Without "travel partners" in the midwest, their costs go up dramatically. The PAC had a lot of leverage until this ACC idea came up. Now, they look like they may have to settle for something less and still risk time zone alienation.

Laurence Cooley 8 years ago

the only way i can see the acc taking kstate is if they lose a team first (like maryland, wv, vt or fsu...or if miami's football program is killed, lol) but other than that i dont see kstate being a hot commodity in all of this. kansas isnt too hot either (since all of this is driven by football) but we have a brand that everyone knows and foot holes in multiple markets. and kstate doesnt have the academics that the acc likes. remember that gt left the sec for the acc, because the acc had a higher standard for academics; so academics does play a role.

Hank Cross 8 years ago

TT would get the invite over KSU. The real question is does the ACC act preemptively and seek UT, TT, KU, and MU as a package, or does it bide its time admit UT and TT and wait for the SEC to take WVA and trigger the collapse of the BE in the hopes of expandind its NE footprint w/Syracuse and UConn.

ejlumus 8 years ago

Oh really ................. it is all about $$$ and politics.

LogicMan 8 years ago

politics:

That's true -- these conferences appear to be lining up largely along political philosophy lines, just like the remainder of the country.

So by thinking KU, OU, and UT should be invited to the PAC-??, being the more liberal campuses in their respective states. And OSU, KSU, TAMU, and Baylor to the SEC.

The middle of the roaders, MU, TxTech, and ISU, are left hanging.

It won't work out that way though; it's best just to stick together and to add a few good teams to the Big 12.

Kyle Sybesma 8 years ago

KU's options should go in this order 1. Big 10 2. ACC 3. PAC 12 4. Big East 5. Big 12 The east coast has to be a priority. We all understand the east coast bias argument. It exists. Let's face it. The Big 10 with MU, Notre Dame and Syracuse or W Virginia would be an ideal situation for so many reasons. Geographicaly with MU, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Indiana. It also maintains a rivalry with MU.

The ACC is a solid conference that would be incredibly entertaining for basketball with Duke and 'Ol Roy. This would be a with Texas, Texas Tech (Billie Gillespie) Missouri. This would also be a great conference for KU football. It's competitive but not overwhelming like the BIG 10 or the PAC 12. How great would it be for KU to tell a recruit he will get to play in AFH, Cameron Indoor and the Dean Dome.

The PAC 12 offers stability with familiar schools. A large portion of our nonconference schedule includes PAC 12 schools. A great California exposure but the athletes are traveling two time zones. Teams would include OU, OSU and either Texas Tech for recruiting and TV or Missouri or K-State. I'd eliminate K-State.

The Big East on the surface looks like it would be a lot of fun for the obvious basketball reason but as soon as the Big 12 falls apart the Big East will be next. To get to 16 teams, the ACC, SEC and BIG 10 will be picking from the Big East. Teams like Syracuse, W Virginia, UConn, Notre Dame (basketball), possibly Louiville. When that happens where does that leave KU?

The BIG 12?......Let's hope not.

Jayhawkfanalum 8 years ago

I agree, B10 would be the best option for KU (money/academics/travel/geography/cultural ethos), but doubt B10 will come a calling for KU. Also, even if they did, would they want KSU? Would the regents allow the schools to be split into different conferences? If/when the B12 expires, MU probably to SEC (good money, great football/SEC caliber corrupt BB coach already in place/no Texas/they get to slight B10 after being slighted last year).

Some of the new talk popping up on sites in Austin is of UT & KU going it alone to the ACC. That would give the ACC North Carolina, Duke, Kansas—3 of the top teams in the land—and Texas and Maryland and a host of other fairly good 2nd tier BB teams. The ACC would then be to BB what the SEC is to FB, especially with Calhoun so well on in years and NCAA infractions, and BB matters in the ACC. Also, the time differential is only 1 hour, rather than 2 hrs to Cali, and it favors the team traveling from West to East to play with the exception of morning games. Can you imagine the Hawks playing in Cameron? Krzyzewski stalking the sidelines of the Phog? Roy having to come back and coach a game in Allen Field House? Texas gets to pretty much run the field in FB each year and keep the LHN. And the ACC doesn’t take too big of an academic hit. That’s my vote, if the Big 10 doesn’t offer. Pac12 would be OK too.

lv70 8 years ago

Why don't we tell Texas to go to the ACC, would AM and OU be happy and stay? That would still be a strong conference that we could build on.

Tony Bandle 8 years ago

If Kansas joined the Atlantic Coast Conference, would Uncle Roy's head explode!!??

ahpersecoachingexperience 8 years ago

I hate to say it but if hitching our wagon to ut and heading to the acc seems like a pretty sweet deal. Sure we'd still be ut's beeatch but it gives us east coast bias errrr exposure for hoops. Football schedule gets easier and keeps recruiting presence in Texas while opening up Florida. Get it done!

Bville Hawk 8 years ago

ahperse... you're starting to make sense to me. That's frightening...

ejlumus 8 years ago

Good gawd .... I am agreeing w/ ahper & mangino. i am going to kick myself in the balls.

jaymar74 8 years ago

I'm in that same boat. Can you imagine Duke in AFH followed a week later by Roy.

Travis Shinkle 8 years ago

I believe it's called "awesome"...Dickie V and ESPN will freak.. KU vs UNC, KU vs Duke YEARLY? Plus the UNC vs Duke, KU vs...(I'd hope Missouri would go too).

also, I'd like to add, is KU's football team having almost equal opposition on a week-end-week-out basis. Sure there's always the chance of playing a Texas or Va Tech here and there but the ACC is really like playing in the Big 12 North as it is...we could really compete

Jeff Coffman 8 years ago

Aph and man would probably agree with that move as well!

tychi_jayhawk 8 years ago

I like it too. Stay with UT for texas recruiting and get the east coast for BB recruiting.

Plus we get to play Turg and Roy.

Eric Dawson 8 years ago

I like everything about that idea except tu. Want nothing to do with them UNLESS they are forced to be equal partners with the rest of the conference members, and the only reason tu is looking at the ACC is it is the only conference that hasn't told them that "share & share alike" is the cardinal rule for admission.

So I'll recant my previous comment -- I don't like anything about that idea.

David Atchley 8 years ago

What may not have come out as publicly as it should...."Baylor" based on the total unity and agreement at last summer's Big 12 summit where each school pledged to its allegiance....moved forward with loans and plans to build a new football stadium. This based on the television contracts from ESPN and Fox that will net each Big 12 Conference school more than what is currently being paid to any SEC or PAC 12 school.

Now that might not be as big of news to any state university grad or fan, but as a small private religious based school, that was a big decision.

That is the horsepower behind Baylor's decision to threaten legal action against Texas A&M and why Baylor publicly called-out Oklahoma last week.

Everyone wishin/hopin/prayin for the Big East Conference or the PAC 12 Conference...understand how much voice and leverage and now "wealth" your respective school enjoys in the Big 12 Conference. Your school, depending on what time of year, enjoys being among the elite in the Big 12 Conference, and as a result, get a lot of national spotlight shining on you.

That immediately goes away, and you magically find yourself at the end of the line in any other conference and all that implies. You have no seat or voice in any new conference, those seats are already taken.

This isn't about money....unless you're Baylor and have mortgaged the present on future network revenue, this isn't about money....if it was....every school would stay in the Big 12 Conference...this is about ego...pure and simple....

"Better to dance with the devil you know...than the devil you don't" - Anthony Trollope

Ted Adams 8 years ago

Just heard a similar line this week. "Same hell...different devil!"

Jayhawkfanalum 8 years ago

Baylor doesn’t stand a bat’s chance in H___ of winning a tortuous interference suit against A&M or the SEC.

But, golly, do you think Kenneth Starr has the cajones to mount an outrageous and obstreperous legal action riveting the attention of the entire country even though it has little legal merit? Hmmm…..

Travis Clementsmith 8 years ago

I was reading Swaim's article and his tidbit about Texas Tech was interesting. Obviously, Tech is not the Texas prize, but if Texas looks like it is going to the ACC with North schools in tow, Tech might opt for the PAC. Tech was very high on going to the PAC last year. The PAC does still want a Texas footprint and Tech would be much preferable to Baylor or Rice. If OU and OSU are going, that means the PAC would only have to find one more school.

That would put KSU squarely in the ACC plan unless Texas wanted Baylor. And even if they did, does that mean the PAC might relent and take KSU to fill out to 16? Obviously, a quartet of Tech, OU, OSU and KSU was not what they had in mind, but they really are running out of options.

utahjayhawk 8 years ago

Wasn't TT only desired by the PAC last year as an enticement to get UT? I always thought no UT, no TT to the PAC.

jgkojak 8 years ago

If Texas is a NO, I see the Pac taking Texas Tech as a partner for Colorado and the Oklahoma schools. Not sure who the 16th team would be, because...

If Texas goes to the ACC its going to need to take at least Kansas, and Kansas could have the cachet to bring K-State.

Why would we want to bring K-State? Easy travel partner, bigger KS ACC footprint, etc.

I could see the ACC taking Texas, KS, K-State and Missouri for a "pod" in the midwest.

It could work like this: MW POD: KU, KSU, MU, TX SE POD: Miami, FSU, GTech, Clemson E POD: UNC, Wake, Carolina, Duke NE POD: MD, Va, V Tch, BC

In basketball: We play home and home with our pod (6 games) and 1 game with the other 12 teams (18 games) - that's a pretty decent conference schedule and for our 9 road games, 3 are close by. We're probably adding 2-3 extra travel days total, and we can make that up by playing more home games in the non-con or playing more local non-cons (guarantee games with OSU and OU would be nice to maintain).

In football: there are two divisions (we're probably w/the SE) - we'd play 7 games against MW and SE (darn - a Florida game every year in the middle of winter) and 1 game against the E and NE pods for a 9 game schedule. Again, if we have 5 road games, 3 are in our pod and only 2 are travel games. Not bad.

JayBoi2011 8 years ago

I don't see the ACC wanting to breakdown the KC market into 3 pieces when it is already spread thin. Texas Tech would make more sense, especially since it has an endowment that towers over even our endowment.

Kevin Huffman 8 years ago

You left out N.C. State.....are you assuming that they go to the SEC?

Kyle Sybesma 8 years ago

North Carolina is mentioned twice. UNC and then Carolina. But I would anticipate that an ACC school like Clemson along with Missouri and maybe W Virginia would go to the SEC for the 2013 season. I like the idea of KU in the ACC. It's obviously great for basketball and a conference we could be competitive in for football.

Vernon Riggs 8 years ago

For your Midwest Pod, I think Cincy would be more attractive to the ACC than KSU. K-State and KU brings the same television markets: Kansas City, Wichita and Topeka. This is about grabbing viewers to expand the television footprint.

However the only issue that I have with your NEW ACC16 is that the SEC and B1G are also going to expand too. I could see Maryland jumping to the B1G (along with Syracuse, Rutgers & Pitt) and Va Tech jumping the SEC16 (with Texas AM, West Virgina and Louisville)

That means the ACC16 would have to add six teams instead of four (to replace Maryland and Va Tech). I would look to UConn and the choice of Baylor, KSU, Memphis, Iowa St or Texas Tech to round out the league.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years ago

From the latest article:

*** If Texas is not involved in the equation, would the Pac stick on 14 or find two additional members to reach 16?

This, to me, is the most interesting issue.

Scott and the league’s CEOs are not interested in expansion for expansion’s sake, and with Oklahoma (in) and Texas (out) accounted for, there would be no obvious must-have.

But at the same time, 14 is not very manageable in terms of scheduling and divisions.

More coming …

I don't believe this for a moment. If Scott can't get the big fish in Texas, the Missouri market is almost a must have for him. If that isn't there, then I could see them trying to work with 14, but if he can get KU-MU, I really can't see how he could pass on that.

Garrett Pounds 8 years ago

Its time for the last stand of the big 12 go get huston, csu, wsu, or even try arkansas. But dont join any of these other conferences bc of all the traveling cost. Ou needs to stay and quite this bs u dominate the conference year in and out in football. Stupid move to the pac 12, already winning the conference and always in the run for nation title every year. Stpuid move save the big 12.

JayBoi2011 8 years ago

Sometimes someone says something so stupid, that you are actually surprised that person could be alive long enough to make such a statement. This is one of those statements.

Josh Galler 8 years ago

Wichita State? they have no football since the 1940's I believe (they do have the FB stadium still), but no way.

djhawk75 8 years ago

Yes, they still have the football stadium. It would be a great venue for a Div. I-AA program.

Laurence Cooley 8 years ago

arkansas said no, csu is the third university followed in the state behind CU and AFA, houston? (i refuse to let the swc reform and be apart of it) and wsu doesnt even field a football team.

you are crazy. that idea is horrid and you should just accept the fact that the big12 is imploding.

Jeff Coffman 8 years ago

Washington State is still high in cost and hasn't fared well in the PAC 10.

Wisconsin State, I'm not sure there is one.

I can't imagine you are talking about Wichita State, do they have football?

Arkansas won't come with the powers here, let alone without them.

Houston is worthless.

CSU, you mean the stepchild of Colorado? We couldn't hold on to that school why would we go after CSU?

I think for your comment, you should take a 30 day suspension of posting. It is kind of like a time out for getting in trouble.

trey 8 years ago

Folks, ANYTHING but the "Little East". It drives me crazy hearing media or fans talk about the Big East as either a good fall-back option for KU, or even the best option. You're not seeing the whole picture! Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn, Pitt and West Virginia are NOT going to be there; they'll be in the BIG, ACC or SEC. Being in a conference with Cinci, Louisville, S. Fla, TCU, K-State, Iowa State and Baylor would be devastating for KU. The TV deal for football would be miniscule (already tiny for BigE). What BBall recruits going to want to play in that conference? Why would Bill Self want to coach in that conference. Everyone (most importantly BGL and Zenger) needs to get as far away from this option as possible.

Going to the BIG, PAC or ACC would all be good scenarios for KU, each with it's own pros and cons.

I think going to the BIG with MU would be our #1 choice, but seems like there is no interest from that conference. Probably means their focus is some combo of Notre Dame, Texas, Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt, and MU.

I don't believe the ACC is realistic. Sounds sexy, but not even sure the Bill Self would want it. Talk about about being in a "pressure cooker" every year!

So that brings me back to PAC. Even though it would be my #2 choice (behind BIG), it's the one where I really believe we control our own fate. And it would be a great conference. The PAC has far fewer options for expansion than the others, due to geography. I believe that if they can't get Texas, KU is number two on their wish list, behind Oklahoma.

So KU... MAKE THE FIRST MOVE.

Work deal to become 13th member of PAC. OU and OSU would follow us the next day. Texas gets next option, but without TTech (because we took the slot). If Texas blinks, MU get's next invite and accepts (they don't want SEC, and BIG is slow).

What a great conference.

Come on folks, send card/letters on NO Little East. Come of BGL and Zenger, make the call to the PAC today.

Randy Bombardier 8 years ago

The Grapes of Wrath...OU joins PAC and kicks some serious butt for all the "Okie" derision of the last 80 years. The sequel, Cannery Row, is where Dan Beebe is after all is said and done.

tolawdjk 8 years ago

I'm sorry, but from Self's perspective, I would think it would be awesome. You can make promises to recruits to east coast TV time. You get Tabacco Raod games pretty much every year. And I'm sorry, but a coach that doesn't want to compete game in and game out is not a coach I want. Yeah, it makes the 20+ win seasons harder, but if you can still keep an MU, KSU, and TX game while gaining a Duke, NC, Wake game...I can't see how any coach wouldn't relish the challenge.

justinryman 8 years ago

This is all about money and TV sets, not about academics or anything else. But one has to look at stability as well.

Sure the Big East could give KU a home right away, but for how long? So the ACC and PAC are the 2 best bets at this time. Sure the B1G might be the best fit over all, and the SEC might be the most stable but they aren't even looking KU's way at the moment.

I do believe this is the end of the Big 12, it may take all football season to get things worked out, but what better way to stay in the news????

Randy Bombardier 8 years ago

P.S. In Dubious Battle Beebe has led a conference Of Mice and Men through The Long Valley. I am grateful that he and the conference leaders did not pursue The Harvest (of) Gypsies to keep the conference from going down the toilette with The Log of The Sea of Cortez (A&M). I am convinced that The Pearl (KU) will make it to The Pastures of Heaven and To a God Unknown. Steinbeck saw it all happening many years ago. Rest easy my loyal Jayhawks.

Ryan Shelton 8 years ago

Has anyone considered the basketball ramifications in a move to the ACC? Roy Williams would not be able to dodge us anymore.

Randy Bombardier 8 years ago

The (Sour)Grapes of Wrath had led Oklahoma to journey West once again. In Dubious Battle Beebe has led a conference Of Mice and Men through The Long Valley, unfortunately for him it will lead to Cannery Row. I am grateful that he and the conference leaders did not pursue The Harvest (of) Gypsies to keep the conference from going down the toilette with The Log of The Sea of Cortez (A&M). I am convinced that The Pearl (KU) will make it to The Pastures of Heaven and To a God Unknown. Steinbeck saw it all happening many years ago.

Randy Bombardier 8 years ago

I left out the first sentence. Am hoping to help people not be so anxious about all this. I know I am.

danmoore 8 years ago

Joining ACC would make for some great basketball and we have already demonstrated that we can compete in football with recent wins over Georgia Tech, Duke and Virginia Tech. Where do we sign up?

Travis Clementsmith 8 years ago

To be a super conference you need three basic things:

  1. You need at least 3, preferably 4 major football powers: FSU, Miami, Virginia Tech and Texas qualify

  2. You need major markets: Raleigh Durham, Miami, other parts of Florida, Boston, the Beltway, Texas and Missouri qualify

  3. You need good supplemental football programs: Missouri, Boston College, Maryland, NC St, Clemson and Georgia Tech qualify

That's all you really need, but here's the kicker:

  1. There's a whole second half to the academic year and it does actually create quite a bit of buzz and money. UNC-Duke is the crown jewel for ESPN basketball and they awarded the ACC a big basketball contract just for it. Now you're going to add Kansas with Texas, MU and another probably decent basketball school on top of it? That's why they're talking about this as the richest conference deal yet and why nobody is going to leave it. It fortifies the ACC. If you make more money and have the security, why do you want to run your program through the gauntlet of SEC football? Plus, you get to keep your high academic standing by getting at least 3 more AAU schools into your conference.

That's the trifecta right there: Great football, great basketball, superior academic reputation.

I wonder if they keep the ACC logo or go to ECC, Eastern Continental Conference?

Chris1955 8 years ago

How about Trans American Conference?

Jayhawk444 8 years ago

Big10 Big 10 Big10. It doesn't matter how unlikely this outcome is. It is clearly our best option. It makes sense on every level.

I have said before the Pac12 doesn't make sense geographically, and if we're going to do something that doesn't make sense geographically, then why not go East instead of West? I keep hearing time zone doesn't matter because we would end up in the Pac in a Central time zone pod with only 1 or two games per year on the west coast played in accommodating time slots for our Central TV viewers. But don't you like to follow other key conference games? Don't you like to watch OU-TX in football or TX-OSU in basketball? Now, would you stay up until 1:00 AM to watch Stanford and Oregon play for the PAC16 West title and the chance to play OU in the Championship game? Or watch UCLA and Arizona play in basketball because if UCLA can knock off AZ then it gives KU the outright bball title? Those are good games you would miss because they will be played in the middle of the night here in KS. ACC doesn't make any more sense geographically...but at least we'd get to see what's going on.

Big 10 has it all...

phoggedin 8 years ago

I agree that the Big 10 would be the best option for KU. Unfortunately, they're not interested in us. They've also said they're not expanding at all until their tv deal is up for renegotiation in several years. The Big 10 wants Notre Dame, first and foremost. Failing that, they're interested in moving east -- Syracuse, Rutgers, etc. Missouri is on the list but other schools are ahead of them. I've heard no talk that the Big 10 has any interest whatsoever in Kansas.

Randy Bombardier 8 years ago

The Big10 is where we will end up. The Big knows that State Flagship schools are the foundation of the conference. West Virginia, Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt do not bring what KU and MU will bring. No Way the membership of the Big10 allow Texas in. That one is out there. It will be KU and Missouri and they will stop there. AAU, contiguous territory, Flagship State University, and two solid TV markets. Success is prolonged in an organization only as long as you remember who you are, as opposed to covet what you are not. KU and MU are what the Big10 is. They understand that.

LogicMan 8 years ago

And hopefully some important people are talking to the Big 10 behind the scenes? Like a joint KU/MU team?

Kevin Huffman 8 years ago

An idea....Supposedly still these high %s for thinking we'll stay in the Big XII. For that to work, it would be under the assumption that ONLY OU & OSU would head to the Pac-12. Then in my opinion, you STILL have to get back to 12 again....not 10. I'd be more for raiding the Big East than joining it.

How about:

West - Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, BYU, Houston and Kansas State & East - Kansas, Missouri, Iowa State, Louisville, Cincinnati & Pittsburgh

At a minimum seems viable, though admittedly not as attractive as joining the Pac-12, ACC, SEC or Big Ten would be.

Pretty much akin to joining the Big East albeit with some travel benefits. Only 4 teams out of our time zone (BYU, Louisville, Cincinnati & Pittsburgh) and no super late games as would be the case if PAC-12 were the destination. Only BYU and Pittsburgh being the really far places to travel, I would argue.

letourneau41 8 years ago

Why would BYU want to join and have to travel all the way to Louisville, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh? You only look at it through KU's point of view. But why would these other teams want to join the BIG 12?

BarkingHawk 8 years ago

How does any of this make sense with all the drama queens running the universities and athletic departments that are in the midst of this, i.e., UT, TAM and, notably now, OU? The latter wants out of the chaos, but is now the main source of it.

The advantages of keeping this conference together - with regional geography but national reputations in the major sports - makes so much sense in the context of a sane, balanced educational/athletic/financial approach. Nevertheless, the supposedly intelligent leaders of these universities can't get over themselves and their justifications for cutting and running from a solvable problem. Did I say leaders? Leaders would step forward, stand strong, work together and find solutions. This bunch doesn't have those qualities. Hence, the breakdown.

Having more than just a passing interest in all things Jayhawk, I follow the posts and the rumors that pass for news as much as anyone else. But, East Coast, West Coast, all about the country, the physical and time zone connections to our fellow schools and their students and supporters is what makes this, and any conference, what it should be. At this hour, when there is enough money already for all, the 'leaders' of these universities need more than their brains, credentials and pedigrees. How about some common sense?

texashawk10 8 years ago

Common sense goes out the window when there is a "who has the biggest d**k" contest" going on.

Ted Adams 8 years ago

From the 10:36am update: "Multiple sources have told the Hotline that Scott believes the conference must expand — to 14 and perhaps 16 — in order to protect itself in the future when the SEC and Big Ten are both at 14+."

This is completely ludicrous and actually plan stupid. Protect the PAC against what? The SEC or B1G is going to raid the PAC?! You're kidding, right? There isn't any way that any of the current PAC schools are even in the vicinity of the SEC or B1G's radar.

That is likely one of the dumbest assumptions I've seen in this whole mess the last week or so. If Scott actually made that comment and makes a move based on that, then he's way dumber than I thought. He would take it about the head and neck from everyone, if that is the case.

Randy Bombardier 8 years ago

They have 12 teams and are ranked fourth as a football power, or lack thereof. Getting OU and OSU enhances their football profile. It is an embarrassment to them. They want to rival the SEC in football and have a long way to go. This is their best shot at closing the gap. If they get Texas and OU they will be thrilled. All of a sudden all those Texas high schoolers will be looking West and to a better academic conference if their education has any value at all. If Texas is smart this is where they will go for the benefit of all Texans. If it is all about the university of Texas and their little pile of cash, probably won't happen. Is this a good move for KU? Second best, my opinion. Stay close to home with NU and MU.

trey 8 years ago

Interesting Matt... you give 60% odds that KU going to one of the two WEAKEST conferences, the Big12 or BigE. Which will likely be eaten by the other four over the next couple of years.

And 40% odds that KU goes to one of the strong concerences, ACC, PAC, BIG (I agree no chance we go to the SEC).

Man I hope that you are wrong.

Just for grins... why do you believe that Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn, Pitt and West Virginia are going to stay in the BigE. Do you not believe that they are NOT going to get invited by the BIG, ACC or SEC? Or do you believe they get invited, but will choose to stay in the BigE? And if so, why? There is not comparison in the TV contract of the BigE vs the others.

Chris1955 8 years ago

I was able to attain a partial program list for the LHN. Some of these shows might be pretty entertaining.

The Real Housewives of The Texas Longhorns” Tuesdays @ 8 pm

Camera crews will follow around the wives of all the Longhorn football coaching staff and all their interactions and over priced parties and showcase their deep seeded resentment and bring to light just how threatened they are by one another.

“UNIVERSITY POLICE” (i.e. COPS) Fridays @ 9 pm LIVE!

Well you know the show, Mack Brown is not happy about this one at all.

“The Biggest Loser-Longhorn Addition” Mondays @ 7 pm

Jeff “Mad Dog” Madden squares off against Chris “My dad is Phil” Simms on this familiar TV show. However with a twist, while Mad Dog will actually be trying to lose weight, Simms will be making his last ditch effort at a meaningful NFL career. Who will claim the title of “The Biggest Loser?” Tune in!

“What Not to Share” Thursdays @ 8 pm

Get a behind the scenes look at DeLoss Dodds day to day operations. Discover the tireless effort that goes into being the puppet master of the Big 12 conference.

“One and Two Half-Men” Wednesdays @ 8 pm

An exciting announcement for the LHN, Charlie Sheen has signed on for this new LHN sitcom! Co-starring Longhorn brother quarterbacks Case and Colt McCoy, Sheen (as himself) must raise these two oddly child-like young adults. Tune in for the chaos and see how Sheen can make these half-men, into whole ones.

“Young and The Witless” Monday-Friday @ 3 pm

Not leaving any stone unturned, the LHN begins production on a day time soap opera. Starring former Longhorn quarterback, Vince Young, watch the drama unfold with the irrational behaviors of Young and other former members of the Longhorn alum. Co-starring Roy Williams, Ricky Williams and Cedric Benson.

“Cedric the Lawyer Retainer Presents:” Mondays @ 5 pm

Camera crews get inside access to the hearings, lawyer meetings, arraignments and jail time of this former Longhorn star. It will be the best 4 hour show you will see!

“MATTtv” Tuesdays @ 9 pm

All Mathew, all the time. Mathew McConaughey stars in a role similar to the one he played on “EDtv” however this is highlights of 24 hour coverage of his REAL life situations. He IS a Longhorn guys so go ahead, have a man-crush!

“The Apprentice-Longhorn addition” Mondays @ 8 pm

Does Will Mushchamp have what it takes to be the next Longhorn football coach? Watch as Mack Brown puts Muschamp to the test- Show has been cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances.

“They Call Me Major” Saturday @ 2 pm

This made for TV movie stars Major Applewhite. Growing up in the mean streets of Louisiana, this awe inspiring film will captivate you as the ugly, red-headed metaphorical step child of Phil Simms beats all odds on his road to Longhorn immortality.

Jeff Coffman 8 years ago

I thought Texas had a medical program...where is Burnt Orange Anatomy.

awesome post!!

Andy Tweedy 8 years ago

I just don't get why anybody wants to go to the Big East...I just don't get it! To me, the ACC or PAC ?? are SO much more appealing.

FarSideHawk 8 years ago

Big East is a tough basketball conference, that's the only appeal I have.

I would however love for KU to be in ACC and going against UNC and Duke on a regular basis.

I would even prefer Big 10 and SEC before PAC 10, I don't get the love affair with PAC 10 at all (from a fan's perspective; I know money-wise it makes most senste there)

ejlumus 8 years ago

It is not more appealing. It may be our only option until B1G decides to expand to 16.

Andy Tweedy 8 years ago

I get that it might end up being the only option, but I'm saying if the ACC or PAC are available, I'd take them over the Big East. I agree with FarSideHawk that it's the basketball that is appealing, but to me, the football just plain sucks! It's a conference full of teams like us. I'd much rather play a few USCs or Florida States. Let's face it, if it weren't for the opponent, there are years we wouldn't sell 25K seats to many of our games. Personally, I feel like the basketball program will flurish in any of those conferences.

LAJayhawk 8 years ago

Matt,

The Big 10 has gained percentage points on your "wheel of potential" from yesterday. Are you getting the feeling that is a growing possibility (albeit a small one)? Obviously, that would come down to what Texas does, but, do you believe there is a strong possibility KU goes along with Texas if Texas chooses the Big 10 (I'm assuming also with mizzou)?

Matt Tait 8 years ago

I think the Big Ten remains an option — and a better one than many people think — so long as the dominoes start falling and the other conferences go to 16 teams.

If that happens, the Big Ten could make a move to add Texas, Notre Dame, Kansas and Missouri and wouldn't that be something.

Don't read too much into that, though. Still a longshot. But one I know will be given a full chance to happen.

utahjayhawk 8 years ago

Matt, it seems that the only UT storylines getting air time are those involving the Horns going to a conf with a substantial ESPN presence (ie PAC, ACC). Do you see it that way?

What about earlier reports of UT to the B1G?

Josh Galler 8 years ago

My bold predictions for KU next season

Big 12 30%

Big East 25%

ACC 20%

Pac 12 15%

Big 10 10%

DallasJayhawk1 8 years ago

I agree but would put 5% more on Big 12 to 35% but then put Big East and ACC both even at 20%.

ejlumus 8 years ago

Too difficult to schedule games after conference season starts. Also less games as no conference tournament.

Josh Galler 8 years ago

I am leaning towards more to the East with Big East, ACC, Big 10 if Big 12 implodes Money might be less, but with thinking of expenses, travel times for athletes, and TV coverage EST and CDT are the better

rob4lb 8 years ago

As much time as I have spend analyzing and reading about conference realignment, it really doesn't matter because the situation appears to be so fluid. KU's situation will not be addressed until the boys have a home. We may end up not having a choice, which would be an easy decision. I hope these are our priorities:

  1. Get into the Big 10 or Pac 12, that is move to stability.
  2. Get into a conference that treats members equally (ie. get away from Texas)
  3. Get in a conference that has at least some teams that are close geographically.
  4. Preserve rivalry with Missouri.
  5. Get in a conference which can elevate academic profile.
  6. Find a place where the crown jewel basketball can be showcased (hint: that is not ACC or Big East- KU will never be the marquis program in either conference).

Note: the basketball is the lowest priority. It amazes me how many people in the blog continue to bring up basketball when they know that it has only a minor impact in conference realignment. Think about it, if KU has a mediocre basketball program, we would be in the same situation as K-State.

LogicMan 8 years ago

"Think about it, if KU has a mediocre basketball program, we would be in the same situation as K-State."

We would be in worse shape. KSU has emphasized football lately, a wise choice that could save them in the days and weeks ahead.

We need to show concrete steps towards firming up our football program, and fast. How about starting a public campaign to expand the stadium by 15,000 seats?

ejlumus 8 years ago

How 'bout filling the stadium with standing room only. Another thought would be to stay for whole efn game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

utahjayhawk 8 years ago

Excellent objectives, rob, in that order. We'll most likely always have great hoops, but we need to emphasize other areas to make the most of KU and getting into a stable, balanced conference (B1G, PAC) meets all of those objectives.

Hank Cross 8 years ago

Have to disagree. BB is the ONLY thing keeping KU alive in these discussions. KU will never have a consistently good FB program as long as it is a power conference. The state doesn't have enough people to provide recruits and KSU eats into the FB fan base. If NE had to compete with "NE State" in this same conference I doubt that it would have risen to the heights it did. If developing FB is the main issue, then the only real options are the BE and MW.

jaymar74 8 years ago

North Carolina or Kentucky are not in the Big East, therefore Kansas would be the marquis program in that conference. Only NC and Ky can be considered ahead of Kansas and then only slightly. We do not have anything close to a mediocre basketball program so we are not anything close to KSU. If you think our basketball does not matter, you are living in a cave. Yes it's about football, but in the end when a conference has a chance to add our basketball history, allen fieldhouse and the Naismith name, they will jump and fight each other for the chance. Just watch.

judy_jayhawk 8 years ago

So Matt, you are saying the MOST likely thing to happen is the stay in the Big 12? It has the highest percentage???

Matt Tait 8 years ago

Right now... at 4:28 p.m. Sept. 14, 2011... that's what I'm saying. The reason? That's the outcome the most members of the Big 12 are hoping for. That could change drastically if OU and OSU leave and when the A&M move becomes official... But until then, that's where we're at.

Randy Bombardier 8 years ago

Big 10 50% PAC 20% ACC 20% Big East 10% Big12 0%

BarkingHawk 8 years ago

Have already sounded in with an overall view of this thing and the quality or lack thereof re the leadership driving this thing away from Big 12 survival.

But, as to joining the Big East, it strikes me that the logical step going forward with such an expansion would be a doubleheader Big East Big Monday. That puts our profile/recruiting opportunities even better yet, though may cut down on our overall TV appearances. Regular games against UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, Georgetown, Villanova, West Va. (if they're not to the ACC or SEC by then). Good games vs. Marquette, Cincy, St. John's (Lavin/Madison Square Garden).

I don't like anything about this from a football standpoint in losing our regional/reputational connections to the Texas and Oklahoma schools. Still, there is a Big East BCS spot and we can play with about anybody among the Big East football schools if our recruiting would not dry up in Texas, etc. by such a move.

The time zone thing is huge. Our basketball brand works great in that direction, and, let's face it, that is who we are, much as we try to build a consistently qualitative football program. (On the other hand, a Texas, KU, MU pod in the ACC with one other school for a 4th also would work well. And getting Duke and Carolina basketball in that deal . . . wow.)

Jack McEnaney 8 years ago

There is a lot of talk about maintaing the rivalries with k state and misery. I am wondering how Iowa State and Iowa maintain their rivalry being in different conferences. How can they possibly do it? After watching their game this past Saturday it looks alive and quite well to me. What will we do if KU is in the ACC and k state is in the big east and misery is in the SEC? We will never get to play them again because the schools will be so far away! It's not as if we could sacrifice week 2 against Northern Illinois because we have to preserve that rivalry. How can we utilize these non conference games exactly? Please please dont break up the big 12(little 9 is how they come across)

ejlumus 8 years ago

Rivalry games should be the same as FU - FSU, FU - Miami, KY - LU and furthermore FU -UT and FU - OU

LogicMan 8 years ago

:-)

But you forgot CU, NU, and TAMU.

Jayhawk444 8 years ago

Would Iowa lobby to have Iowa St included in any BiG expansion? Remember when the ACC last expanded with Boston College, Virginia Tech, and Miami(?)...the ACC originally wanted Syracuse, but Virginia held up the deal until it included Va Tech.

Randy Bombardier 8 years ago

P.S. That is a logical conclusion of mine above with a projection that all will act logically. It does not take into account the emotions of desperation from either KU or a conference. It is based upon sound reason and more traditional thinking rather than what's sexy. That changes with time.

texashawk10 8 years ago

What sound reasoning has happened at all in this entire process? With sound reasoning, the Big 12 still has 12 teams and Dan Beebe would've been fired years ago and a true Big 12 network would've been formed already which would've meant the LHN never happens. There is no sound reasoning in this process, just a bunch of administrators getting into pissing contest.

Randy Bombardier 8 years ago

You are looking at the conference and the overall picture, but all it will take is sound reasoning by KU and a few people in the Big10. The Big has shown nothing that makes them look like some ambitious sorts who care little for tradition, and who make trendy decisions. That is not the Big10. They are strong, prudent and are not going to do something so stupid as to invite Texas when it is clear why NU went there. They are not going to invite a city school (BC, Syracuse, Pitt) when all of their members are state universities. They are not going to invite USC just because it would bring some what, glamour? It is not about glamour with the Big. It is about content and KU has it.

blindrabbit 8 years ago

rob4lb: How can you be so right again! These Kansas BB crazies have been brainwashed into thinking that everybody else is just a BB nuts as they are. I am convinced that there is some aberrant genetic gene that predisposes otherwise seemingly logical KU fans into thinking of only of BB, The Phog, Allen Field House, 1952, 1988, and 2008. Wake up folks, the conference realignment has little or nothing to do with our genetic problem. Rock-Chalk!

Randy Bombardier 8 years ago

I am going to do this a little different this time. So, below are the chances with each conference, in other words of how we compare with others that are being talked about being invited. So, for the BigEast we know that is 100% if we want it.

Big10 50% (KU and MU vs Rutgers, Maryland, Pitt) Bet here is that the Big is not going to raid another conference en masse. It is the Big12 that is falling apart and that gives us the edge to make the Big. ACC 50% (KU vs Big East teams) ACC will seek to bolster itself against SEC taking at least one member and fearing a feeding frenzie by other conferences wants to learn from Big12 experience. It will not poach other conferences unless it has to. Again, Big12 exploding makes us the front runner. PAC 30% (KU vs Texas, Texas-Tech) If Texas goes to the PAC it will most likely take Tech. If it does not or, if OSU would for some strange reason not go West with the sooners, KU could have a shot, but it will boil down to whether UT will be willing to sacrifice the network. I think it would be a tremendous move for Texas, the best possible move for Texas, but I think their greed just could get the best of them here. Big12 Survival 0%. You cannot break trust this many times and survive. Big12 is history.

utahjayhawk 8 years ago

From what I've heard, I don't think we are desired that highly by the B1G. I hope we are.

LogicMan 8 years ago

"Big12 is history."

As we knew it, likely true. But if a vote to dissolve can be avoided through negotiation, then the Big 12 could continue with new members. And very possibly expand to 14 or 16. I'd leave a couple of slots open though just in case any of the defectors decide that the grass really wasn't that green on the other side. CU, for example.

Kevin Randell 8 years ago

As far as the "rivalry games" are concerned OU/Texas did it for over 40 years being their last game before going into conference. I see where Georgia/Georgia Tech and Florida/Florida State have their games as the last game of the season. The only reason why some get concerned about scheduling a big game so early is because of it hurting National Championship title hopes. But lets be real here....KU is a loooooong ways away from that happening in football...lol.

We can still keep the game with MU if we don't end up in the same conference, but if we do, we can still schedule K-State for that 3rd game.

Basically guys and gals, I think KU will end up in a good situation if we can land in the Pac, Acc, or even if the Big 10 wake up and realize they better go to 14-16 teams to! But my honest opinion is if the Big East is our only option we are just going from one conference that is on the down slide to another that is just a few years away from the same thing.

As for Tech, Baylor, K-State and Iowa St......sorry guys it looks like Mountain West, Conference USA for you.

blindrabbit 8 years ago

Too bad this was not settled last year! I remember when we were tracking every move that the PAC-10 (then) commissioner was making as he traveled in Texas and Oklahoma during the Nebraska/Colorado departures. His flights to Austin, College Station, Norman, Lubbock were tracked like Santa's flights on Christmas Eve. I remember the scuttlebutt about a flight to Kansas City and a arrival in Lawrence, and that KU would be made an offer. Being a left-coaster myself, a Lawrence resident and a Jayhawk fan, what better outcome. Too bad it didn't happen then, but still hope! Horace Greeley was right all those years ago!

LogicMan 8 years ago

A PAC-10 flight plan was scheduled to Lawrence, but apparently he changed or cancelled it. I was watching that one live too.

jgkojak 8 years ago

Bring out yer dead!

I'm not dead yet!

Sure ya are. Bring out yer dead!

LJ Gee 8 years ago

Tait, Im surprised you dont have the Pac-12 at a higher percentage. With the Oklahoma schools looking more and more like they'll head that way, it leaves two spots open. If UT is really married to LHN, and Im hearing they are, the Pac-12 may not be the best option for them. That being the case, KU and Mizzou seem like the next best options and I'd bet the Pac-12 would make offers in that scenario. If that were to happen, KU would jump at the Pac-12 before the Big East or ACC. I think the ACC and Big 10 are long shots right now.

My other comment is that this conference without OU will not survive. It might survive this year, but how long before other schools start looking for better deals. If this conference looses OU and OSU, its a matter of time before the rest of the schools start getting poached and unless UT agrees to revenue sharing, almost every conference in America is going to be able to offer a better package than the Big 12 could. The conference cant afford to lose anyone, let alone a program like OU.

Just my opinion, but Id like to see KU be a bit more proactive in all this. My guess is though that they are, just behind closed doors...and thats good enough for me. I just dont want to end up in the Big East.

LogicMan 8 years ago

I don't think OSU wants to go to the PAC-??. They, and UT, could stick with the Big 12 even if OU goes surfing.

Kevin Randell 8 years ago

I don't know though....I have a ton of friends who are OSU fans and they are pretty much tied to the hip with OU. Heck...I was at the OSU/Arizona game and they have the words Beat OU in their fight song. Actually that was the only words I heard....lol.

jgkojak 8 years ago

My view, really, is that the Big 5 could really make a big splash by announcing regardless of what anyone decides, they will vote to continue to the Big 12 (as long as there are 5 members they can do that). Meaning they keep the TV money (they can't take away money since they were a party to the dissolving of the conf. in the first place).

At that point, they can bring in the teams to get to 10 or 12. If Texas wants to be a part of that, great. If not, see ya.

Teams to add: 1. BYU, 2. TCU, 3. Louisville/4. Cincinatti, 5.Air Force, 6. South Florida, 7. Houston or 7. SMU

That's a decent list. Note it destroys the Big East and abandons Rutgers/Pitt,WVU 'cuse and UConn. This pretty much forces the hand of the Big East to either add more football schools or more likely, the ACC and SEC to sweep in and make offers. It could also trigger the Big 10 to finally act.

****And I wonder if OSU wants to leave under these circumstances.

Worst case scenerio?

The New Big 12 NORTH Kansas Missouri Kansas State Iowa State Louisville Cincinatti SOUTH BYU Air Force TCU Baylor South Florida Houston

Oh and they can revoke our BCS card (remember the Big East just lost theirs) if they want - but we'll sue the pants off of 'em and do all sorts of embarrassing discovery about how shady and anti-trust this whole deal has been.

LJ Gee 8 years ago

when you say "the big 5" are you referring to KU, KSU, ISU, Mizzou, and Baylor? Can we even call that the big 5? I mean no disrespect to KU because obviously I bleed Crimson and Blue, but get realistic. There is nothing 'big' about those five schools and a conference of just those teams would have absolutely zero cache and would lose the TV contracts immediately. The biggest market carried by those schools would be KC and thats not a very big TV market. Baylor isnt even the biggest TV draw in Waco let alone the rest of Texas so dont think they'll bring the Texas markets because they are a joke down here. If OU and/or UT leave, this conference is done. It doesnt matter what the other schools do.

blindrabbit 8 years ago

Conference realignment: This is a football story and little to do with basketball. KU pipe dreams of ACC and BigEast are basketball stories and have no relevance here. Save them for another day. I know many KU basketball fans who have no concept of what football is all about from a sport POV as well as little understanding as to what drives this realignment process.

texashawk10 8 years ago

KU in the ACC or Big East does have credence because of how poor KU football has been over the past 40 years. Neither of those conferences are football powers anymore and why they are vulnerable to having their good programs targeted by other conferences leaving them even weaker than they are now and scrambling to add Big 12 leftovers to try and remain AQ conferences.

97jhawk 8 years ago

Tait-tin-ator, how come the remaining schools of the Big 12 conference don't gang up on Texas and pressure them to concede rather than the other way around? Strength in numbers, right? It was shown when Baylor stood their ground.

I just don't see how the other 9 schools can't pressure UT to drop their dumb network and work towards a Big 12 Network. I would imagine they could make more money and stay stronger within the Big 12 than in the ACC or what have you especially considering how the UT football program has faltered a bit this year, which is similar to last year. If UT keeps it up, their program will be just like Notre Dame.....a joke.

Attention should be directed towards UT to shape up. They're the reason all of this is happening and that the Big 12 is unstable. Geographically, it just makes sense to have the Big 12 than not. No major BCS in the central west part of the country? It just seems unimaginable.

I should email the AD......but he probably wouldn't listen.

texashawk10 8 years ago

For those of you posting predictions on how the ACC would look if KU went there, remember this: The SEC and Big 10 will come calling ACC schools to get to 16 teams as the Big East does not have enough schools to fill the needs of both conferences.

The Big 10's realistic pool of candidates sits at 7 teams right now: Notre Dame (catalyst for their expansion), Pitt, Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia, Kansas, and Missouri. AAU membership is a requirement for Big 10 membership with exception of ND and these are the schools that fit that requirement.

Now for the second part of the equation, which schools add the most new TV sets to the Big 10? Notre Dame has the largest national following which gets the BTN into every major city in the country. Rutgers is located in the shadow of NYC and if ND is in their division, would be a very attractive game to move to Metlife Stadium (New Meadowlands), Maryland is located between DC and Baltimore which makes them a very attractive target for the Big 10. The only new market Missouri adds is Kansas City as Illinois already has a presence in St. Louis. Same goes for KU with only adding KC. Virginia helps to lock down DC, but the only market they add that Maryland doesn't is Richmond, and they would only be a viable option if Maryland is added, and Virginia is one of the top academic schools in the US rated higher than most Big 10 schools. Pittsburgh adds no new market to the Big 10 which puts them at the bottom of the list.

Now for the SEC, Mike Slive has said that he would like to add teams outside of their current geographic footprint which eliminates schools like FSU, GT, Clemson, and Louisville. This only leaves 4 schools that as viable options for the SEC, NC State, Virginia Tech, West Virginia, and Missouri. I don't believe UNC or Duke would consider the SEC as those are two highly respected academic schools, and ACC is on par with the PAC 10 academically.

Now let's say that when all is said and done that the Big 10 has added Notre Dame, Maryland, Rutgers, and Virginia and the SEC has added NC State, VT, and WVU, where does that leave the ACC and Big East? It leaves the ACC with 8 teams (BC, Clemson, Duke, FSU, GT, Miami, UNC, and Wake), and the Big East with 7 football members (Cincy, UConn, Louisville, Pitt, USF, Syracuse, and TCU). Now let's say Texas goes out east and is TCU's partner out there, this ACC/Big East hybrid conference is now at 16 teams with no room for KU. This leaves KU-MU to the PAC with OU-OSU and KSU, ISU, Baylor, and Tech to join the MWC or C-USA. KSU and ISU to the MWC to give them 12 and Tech and Baylor to C-USA's western division to form a new SWC bu booting Tulsa and Tulane to the eastern division.

LogicMan 8 years ago

I don't see the Big 10 adding exclusively east coast schools; the culture of the northern midwest is just too different from NYC, etc. Penn State was a tough sell. KU/MU fit much more with their culture, academically and politically, so I'd move them up the Big 10 target list.

texashawk10 8 years ago

What about Oklahoma screams west coast? Culture has absolutely nothing to do with this, it's all about money and NYC, DC, and Baltimore look a helluva lot more attractive than KC does.

LogicMan 8 years ago

Those are big time NFL markets -- any data out there comparing college FB ratings vs. NFL in various cities?

Pbbut 8 years ago

"It's all about Texas - again."

That's the problem. Personally, I'd like to see the conference survive, but to me a conference without Oklahoma OR Nebraska, is truly a marginal conference.
All of these scenarios for teams on the geographical fringes of conferences put 2-day road trips in play, for players. What administrator can in good conscience possibly think this is a good idea?
Stop for a second, Kansas in the ATLANTIC COAST or PAC anything? Does anyone else appreciate the irony? We're about as far as possible from these places. Where's the geographical center of the contiguous 48? near Lebanon, Kansas?

Randy Bombardier 8 years ago

The geographic center is where it has always been...not too far from Nebraska.

pcutjayhawk 8 years ago

If we want to bolster our football resume, let's get behind our boys this weekend! We have a shot at beating GA tech. If we are 3-0, wouldn't we be a little more appealing to other conferences? There's more season, I know, but just go with this. Remember, we do have a bcs bowl win in the last five years. Who else can say that in the big 12.

utahjayhawk 8 years ago

Matt's link above that FSU will now form a committee to look into conference expansion clearly signals that the ACC are of the "have nots" and will be raided. No long term stability in the ACC. The fact that they're not strong in football also means they have limited earning potential.

jgkojak 8 years ago

So I'd presume FSU to SEC.

Well, hell, if the B12, Big East and ACC aren't stable... why not just have one big 64 team conference.

Jason Brinker 8 years ago

Can somebody tell me why the NCAA can't step in and stop all this madness? If the NCAA is all about the student athlete like they claim to be, then how can they stand by and just watch all of this happen? It does not help student athletes when they have to travel across multiple time zones regularly for conference games. And are these schools really going to want to fly a women's volleyball team halfway across the country for conference matches? I realize this is all about football and the almighty dollar, but there is absolutely no logic to this entire process.

The Big 12 is a really good conference. Every year we have highly ranked teams in both football and basketball. It is an extremely competitive conference and is usually one of the strongest conferences in football with the SEC. It is usually one of the strongest in basketball too along with the ACC. We have a good thing here in the Big 12. We have new TV contracts that will pay us all much more than we've ever received in the past. Yet all of these university presidents and d-bags keep thinking the grass might be greener elsewhere.

Here's a thought: Have a sack, grow a pair, and support a conference that has been good to you for the last 15 years and vow to make it even stronger. Show support for schools from the old Big 8 that have stuck with you for even longer and established great rivalries and respect with. Show a little loyalty and you might be surprised what you get in return if the effort is made to keep the conference together and make it better. It could be far greater than a few extra greenbacks every year. Yes, that was primarily directed at OU and OSU and UT to some extent. And one more thing to UT...if you really are committed to the conference and want it to survive, then stop acting like the conference bully and demanding a bigger slice of the pie. Yeah, you are the biggest, but stop throwing your weight around like a huge b-hole.

Eric Dawson 8 years ago

The NCAA can't do anything in this whole mess because it has never had any role in determining who is in what conference.

What will be interesting to see is if Baylor prez Ken Starr's visit today to the Big 12 region's Congressional members (discussing economic impact and interstate commerce regs in re: realignment?) will amount to anything. That is more likely (read "practically a nonstarter from the get-go") than the NCAA getting involved in this mess (never gonna happen!).

Randy Bombardier 8 years ago

Unfortunately it is now too late. Too much distrust. It should have never come to this. Count on the Big10. It is a natural. We don't have to go to the East or West Coast.

Eric Dawson 8 years ago

Matt, regarding "60 seconds with Keegan & Tait - Texas good or bad for Big 12?" -- sorry, that was a waste of time. Appreciate your trying to keep us in the loop, but that segment provided nothing for the reader/viewer that we haven't already read elsewhere in your blog or in the links you provide.

Keep up the good work, but please note that my vote (if I had one) is not to continue the videos -- and not for KU to be in any conference with tu.

Matt Tait 8 years ago

Wasn't anything new, just a new medium. It related to my most recent update (at the time) and gave people a different way to digest the information than retina burnout.

It's not for everybody... Just trying to make this thing a little different from day to day. Too much text gets overwhelming.

Thanks for reading.

texashawk10 8 years ago

I'm personally in favor of moving to the PAC with the Oklahoma schools. Lawrence culturally fits with PAC conference as Lawrence is one of the biggest hippie towns east of the Rockies and the people from Cal and Stanford would enjoy a trip to Lawrence. KU is also a good academic fit with PAC schools

That said, what happens to KU's recruiting in football if they are in a conference without a Texas school? How long will it take to establish pipelines in So. Cal and start bringing in enough talent to compete in that conference. The benefit of hitching KU's wagon to UT wherever UT goes is it keeps the Texas recruiting pipeline open and doesn't setback the rebuilding by several years while KU establishes new recruiting connections. For those of you who want KU to completely sever all ties with UT, just remember where KU does their recruiting for football and think about how long it will take KU to establish their new recruiting connections in California.

Eric Dawson 8 years ago

A price well worth paying. But the truth is there are only so many BCS schools in the state of Texas, so KU will always get good Texas players to come to Lawrence if KU is in a good football league and continues to hire assistants with good recruiting skills and Texas connections. Will be harder, yes, but tu is a cancer (how many major schools and presided over the demise of 2 major football conferences in the last 50 years? Only tu) that needs to be excised.

rob4lb 8 years ago

I'm not sure we lose our recruiting ties to Texas if we sever from UT. Where will the player we recruit go instead of KU? We don't get 4 and 5 star recruits so the SEC powers will not take our recruits. I think UT is concerned that with A&M in the SEC, that Alabama, LSU and Arkansas will take some of their 4 and 5 star recruits. Look at who we compete with for some of our Texas recruits? It's not always Texas schools or schools that have a footprint in Texas. Turner Gill is from Texas. There is no reason we can't continue to recruit in Texas.

justinryman 8 years ago

If KU is separate from Texas and lands in a conference with a nice TV deal then they can still recruit Texas along with the whatever region they are in.

Look if you are on TV a lot, it will get a kid more chances to be seen, than just playing in front of mom and dad in his home state twice in his career.

If I were 18 and had a chance to be on TV, even at 10pm CST, I'd take it over, "going back home".

It's probably pretty close on how a kid looks at it, or his family, but isn't getting to the next level have a lot to do with it?

rob4lb 8 years ago

713KUFAN- First off, we must be neighbors in Houston. Regarding the Pac 12, I've read dozens of articles discussing the expansion of the Pac 12 and very few mention the KU-MU option. It is mentioned alot on this board, but I don't see in alot of other places. Most speculate that MU would end up in SEC, Big East or possibly the Big 10. On occasion, outside of this blog, you hear KU to Pac 12, but usually KU more typically tied to the Big East with an outside change to the Big 10.

Even the ACC speculation, doesn't always include Kansas. More common is a scenario where the ACC poaches Syracuse, UConn, and Rutgers to go with UT.

What this means is that KU is not a priority and will be one of the pieces to be picked up after the SEC and UT and OU find a place to land.

Travis Clementsmith 8 years ago

The simple answer to that is the same reason people who try to insist KU should dosomething "first". We are not first on anyone's scope. So, the PAC will pusue Texas until Texas gives them that final "no". If Texas is the school, KU is not, its that simple. If Texas declines, KU-MU is the only logical alternative, but you won't see that being discussed as they pursue Texas. Same with the ACC. If Texas is serious, then Kansas is too , because Texas wants regional partners. If Texas isn't, then maybe those BEast schools are an option for the ACC.

We are not in any position of power until the "big boys" make their moves official. Once that happens, then we get to be the stars, especially if the "Big Three" all go their separate ways. Believe me, if Texas is serious about the ACC, who gets MU-KU will be a very big story.

Kristen Downing 8 years ago

Latest update from Andy Katz and some of the monetary commitments various schools have made. He does not help much in clearing up the confusion on KU's future. http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6970677/big-12-schools-face-economic-impact-shuffling

hawksince51 8 years ago

No mention of KU having a huge unfunded capital commitment tied to the Big 12 TV deal so that is a relief. On the surface the ACC looks better than the Big East for KU but being in the ACC with UT and their Longhorn Network protected would raise concerns. I would hope that if KU, MU and KSU joined the Big East they could dramatically improve their football TV package. But, it would certainly change the recruiting if we had no Texas schools in with us. What a mess.

Thomas Matlock 8 years ago

I have a headache. Let me know when it finally finished.

justinryman 8 years ago

That's what she said?????!!!!!!!!

Randy Bombardier 8 years ago

This is like snip hunting. We keep going out and coming back with one last hunter. We will be the last sorry sap left if we continue to be so gullible. OU leaves and we do nothing? Are you kidding? NU and OU defined the old Big8. We would be absolute fools to count on Texas to keep a Big12 going. Now, Now is the time to leave. If we fall for some cleaver manipulation we will be left out in the cold OSU and Pickens will give us a feint about staying then, poof, they are gone and HCBS with them while we are stuck in a conference with KSU, ISU, SMU, Baylor, Colorado State, Air Force, Houston, etc. Not even TCU would be interested at that point. And we will be without HCBS. Believe me, people are scheming and right now it is time to let our intentions be know. IF OU goes, we go. That simple.

DallasJayhawk1 8 years ago

If you are going to high school prom--do you go for the hot chick or the average looking chick ? Our hands are tied--no other conference is going to accept our calls to join until the hot chicks (OU and UT) have been asked to the dance. If this was about hoops--KU is the hot chick.

Randy Bombardier 8 years ago

The only real question is (self-interest only here):

Who would we (realistically) be competing with to get into the Big10? Missouri and Kansas make a very nice couple to simply expand to 14 and then allows the Big to wait and see in the East. Now is the time to move. MU/KU as partners to apply to the Big. Now, now, now!

Get on all the Big10 blogs and nicely make comments about the conference and humbly suggest what a great add KU would be to the conference. AAU, Contiguous State, Campus has Big10 Feel, KC market. Historic Rivalry with MU. Flagship University of the State, like all Big10 schools. Don't trash talk. Be nice. Restate that the Big10 is a Midwest Conference. The East is NFL territory so adding the markets there are not that attractive.

Follow me, boys, and I will lead you to the promised land!

utahjayhawk 8 years ago

I'm on board! Let's go TP Delaney's house!

Steve Brown 8 years ago

Branded. 5-6 days ago, it was a dark dry night in the south, wildfires were spreading across the southern plains and Mr. AD was working late...then the phone rang.

"Hello" "Hey Aggie, it's Boomer"

"Yeah, what do you want sir" "what's dis I hear about you leaving the hood?"

"who says?" "Bevo claims you won't listen to reason and why are you not taking his calls?" "nothing more for him to say to me, it's done we are gone."

"we got it pretty good here, Bevo gives us a real good split and we get to beat up on the 7 dwarfs." "you know the grass isn't always greener" "now why you want to cook the golden goose?" "We know, believe me the SEC isn't heaven but Bevo won't be throwin his weight around, we'll take our chances with Bama and LSU, besides we are tired of seeing Bevo's rear end & taking his crap.That LHN is the last straw we're getting out while the gettin's good. We learned we are not Bevo little sister and someone out there wants us, we should have gone last year when we had the chance, won't make the same mistake twice."

"Listen Aggie we always liked you, and we will miss you here in Sooner land, you know we will replace you and you can't get back in once you depart, you take care over there with those confederates." "Hey Boomer, one more thing, Bevo whispered to us in a few years when the dust settles he is folding his deck here and so this thang ain't on solid ground anyway. Be warned."

"what you say, where is he going?" "Somethin about out west.....wanted us to wait and go with him, didn't he tell you..........

Ring ring, "Hello." "Pac 10, hey this is Boomer, we should talk and I mean today........." "what you got in mind Boomer?"

12 minutes later, ring ring ring. "hello" " hey there big guy, Boomer it's Bevo, meet me at your airport, we're coming up there"

"Bevo, don't you 'hey there Boomer' me and don't waste your jet fuel.We just confirmed you don't really have a PAC card to play so why pretend with Aggie, and by the way, we just got our get out of jail free card." "seriously don't do anything rash, we got tons of $$$$ more than enough for all of us, I am beginning to doubt your loyatly, have you been chatting with Aggie?" "Listen to reason Boomer, okay sure the Pac was just a ruse to rattle Aggie, and we can't say this out loud but we have the ACC in our back pocket and you play nice a couple years and we'll take you with us.....No I can't promise a seat for Cowboy be reasonable."

"Bevo you big pile of hamburger, you have screwed the pooch this time, hey why didn't have your boy Baylor call, you must be losing your touch Bevo. "

to be continued......

ParisHawk 8 years ago

PLEEAASE continue, great stuff! You got style light bring it on.

blackhawkjayhawk 8 years ago

The story from Matt's link is dead on. There is simply no logical reason to tank this conference. It was a bad choice for Colorado (good riddance to that doormat, however) to leave and NU is going to find it much harder to dominate in football when Michigan, Wisconsin and Ohio State come calling.

Stupid is as stupid does. OU, NU, CU, A&M, you are stupid. And OSU is really, really stupid if they follow OU out west. Let 'em all go. SMU and TCU are great replacements. Pick up Air Force and we've got a great league, again.

utahjayhawk 8 years ago

Man, you throw around "great" way too casually. Are you serious, SMU, "great"??

blackhawkjayhawk 8 years ago

I said great replacement. Nearby, good football program, great academics, etc., etc. In addition to not being able to read you also have your nose too high up in the air.

blindrabbit 8 years ago

forget all this speculation, just get out the dart board. Will probably be just as accurate and surely more logical.

MWShields 8 years ago

That ACC pod article can't be right....Keegan is convinced that KU will be in the Big East but if Pitt, Syracuse, UConn, and West Virginia are part of the ACC then who is in the Big East?

trey 8 years ago

That's the point and why Keegan is an idiot. He continues to see the BigE as it is today. NOT. These four + Rutger won't be in BigE. They'll be in the BIG, ACC and SEC.

And if we follow Keegan's advice, we'll be in a conference with Cinci, Louisville, South Florida and TCU

How exciting...

hawksince51 8 years ago

If UT wants to hold what remains of the Big 12 together, they could simply share some of the Longhorn Network big $$ as suggested in the SI link. But rather than doing that they are looking to the ACC who apparently will let them keep it all to themselves. But then they gotta ask themselves, how long before the likes of FSU and Va-Tech decide that gives UT an unfair competitive advantage a la aTm?

utahjayhawk 8 years ago

Exactly. UT will always try to manipulate their conf mates.

Hank Cross 8 years ago

The Rosenburg article is dead on, except UT IS the Villan. How do we know this? USC and UCLA have the 2nd biggest media market in the country, and they split their money with OR state and WSU and now Utah. Michigan and Ohio S. split their money evenly with Northwestern and Purdue. These schools recognize that they draw strength and stability by having a good conference with happy members. Bevo otoh treats its conference mates like peasants and shakes them down for their lunch money. Contrary to the article, I sincerely doubt KSU (or KU or even MU) would've acted like UT with the LHN.

Pitthawk34 8 years ago

Does anyone know when this is all supposed to go down? This is like waiting all night for christmas morning not knowing if your getting a bunny suit or a BB gun.

utahjayhawk 8 years ago

Great reference. I'd much rather have the BB gun (B1G, PAC) vs the pink bunny suit (MWC). I'm not jazzed about the ACC or BE in any case.

Hank Cross 8 years ago

A real plus if UT goes to the ACC w/TT and the ACC takes Cuse and WVa is that the BE becomes destabilized. A collapsed BE means that ND doesn't have a place to park the rest of its teams and may be forced to finally surrender to the B1G. Of the remaining BE teams, only Pitt would be of real value to the B1G. (Rutgers doesn't own the NYC market in any sense of the word). That leaves 2 slots open for MU and KU.

I think, however, the B1G will be the last to move b/c they don't want to split up their CIC federal research dollars. But it does create the tantalizing possibility of KU having a choice between the P12 and B1G.

FreeRider 8 years ago

People are making the same mistakes over and over in guessing how this plays out -- and most that are well connected believe there will be clarity by the end of the month. That mistake is not realizing one thing is driving all of this -- conferences trying to get as many eyeballs as possible watching their inventory of football games and, therefore, leveraging their product for the greatest amount of revenue.

If you get that, then answer why the Big Ten would want KU to join its conference. They aren't on a charity mission, otherwise they would have accepted Mizzou last year when it begged for an invite. Instead, the Big Ten realized Nebraska was the best way for it to generate future revenue because of its national football footprint. In other words, the Big Ten will not be an option for KU because that conference could care less about the KC TV market. It wants NYC, DC and perhaps Atlanta where many many more eyeballs could watch their games.

That leaves the Pac and this ACC theory being floated. The one conference that could come to KU asking for it to join would be the Pac because its options are limited for expansion. Frankly, once the Big Ten and SEC gets done with the ACC you wouldn't want to be a part of that conference anyway. So, it's the Pac or bust! And, all the talk about ridiculous travel is just that, ridiculous. The Pac would arrange the pods/divisions in a way that keeps a premium on regional games while also getting some exposure to West Coast. Really, KU couldn't ask for anything more once the Big 12 officially implodes than UT refusing a Pac invite and the conference then turning to KU to fill out its superconference.

utahjayhawk 8 years ago

I agree, but I think you short-change our national BB brand. I don't think that piece will be lost on conference commissioners.

Looking forward, I think that BB may grow to be a bigger sport than FB in 15-20 years. I think the popularity of FB may eventually wane due to safety issues unless serious changes are invoked.

FreeRider 8 years ago

The national basketball brand keeps KU in the discussion, but not at the decision-making table. When the prized football properties are realigned, then the few elite basketball ones could fill out the remaining holes. Football is the money-maker, both in the regular and bowl seasons; basketball only makes money for the networks and schools when it gets to March Madness -- everything up to that point is irrelevant to revenue generation.

Collegiate basketball (other than March Madness) will NEVER be a bigger sport than collegiate football. Athletic departments rely upon football to fund everything else. There's no changes you could make to basketball to leapfrog football other than something like you suggest about a countrywide safety concern. EXCEPT, those safety issues have grown and grown over each of the past decades and, yet, football only gets bigger and bigger. So, why there would suddenly be a change in that trend in the future makes no sense. Football will remain King.

142466 8 years ago

Agreed,

All these suggestions about KU, as a member of the PAC, playing a large number of games on the West Coast is wrong. We'll be in the eastern division, with several former B12 schools, plus Utah. Most games will be intra-division.

B10 is obviously KU's #1 choice. We should vigorously pursue it. But for the reasons already thoroughly discussed, our entry to the B10 is doubtful.

So we should be pursuing the PAC, too. When KU finally sees that the door to the B10 is closed, then KU & Mizzou should hit the PAC with everything we've got.

One final thing. I lived in western & eastern Kansas for 62 years before moving to the West Coast. I've traveled extensively in the eastern & western U.S. I've done business in the east & the west. Kansas is definitely a western State. Always has been, always will be, If you were to ask any Kansas native, "Is Kansas a Western State or an Eastern State? You must pick one of those two." We all know what the answer would be.

Provided that several B12 schools go with us, the PAC is our most desirable landing spot.

DallasJayhawk1 8 years ago

As far as Kansas being thought of as a Eastern state or Western--it's neither. It's middle-America or South Central US. People on the East Coast don't even know where it is--heck here in TX people don't even know much about it and we are in the Big 12 together. And most people in Cali only think of it when the movie Vacation comes on and think Cousin Eddie's house is the typical Kansas house. I grew up in Chicago and went to KU--Kansas City is closer to Chicago in miles than it is to Denver.

Eric Dawson 8 years ago

from the link to Jeff Schultz' article: The Austin American Statesman quoted a Texas source as saying, “Texas’ first choice is to keep the Big 12 together.” But that’s not entirely true. Its first choice really is to keep its TV deal together. They just don’t want to look like the bad guy.

WORD!

Jeff Coffman 8 years ago

95% Same conference as University of Texas. 5% Not in the same conference as University of Texas.

I know a lot of people have said we need to get away from UT, but they bring the money in.

Two options we don't get in with UT is 1) They go Independent, 2) They go to the PAC 12 and take TTU (I don't think that will happen either).

Really, I think that if UT goes to the ACC, so does KU. If UT goes to the Big Ten, so does KU, if UT goes to the PAC 12, I think KU goes as well (as mentioned, I don't think UT brings TTU).

I think the Big East is becoming less of an offer as OSU seems to be fading from the PAC 12 picture.

KU ultimately is the 5th best prize out of the Big XII. UT, OU, TAM, MU, KU...TTU,OSU,BU,KSU,ISU.

utahjayhawk 8 years ago

I'm ok with going with UT, but ONLY to the PAC or B1G. Those conferences are stable and strong enough to not put up with UT's crap. The ACC is not strong enough and, 10 years from now, UT will have destroyed 3 conferences.

Spencer Goff 8 years ago

If we turn down any offer from the other BCS conferences to stay in whatever remains of the Big 12 "because Texas stayed" we might be the dumbest university on the planet.

Did we miss how we got to this point or white wash over the last decade of Big 12 athletics?

How does this conference strike you?

Texas Texas Tech Baylor Houston Rice any other Texas team they feel like Southern Methodist Missouri Kansas Kansas State Iowa State

That conference is a joke. They might as well move the Big 12 offices to the main campus in Austin. And we all know Missouri wants no part of that sham, so you can strike them off the board. Get KU out of here, get down the road.

utahjayhawk 8 years ago

Yup, want no part of that conference

texashawk10 8 years ago

This is the truest statement about this whole realignment mess any of you will read and my final prediction on this.

Schools will change conferences, some will end up better off, some will be worse off, and some will be in the same position they were previously.

Some fans will be very happy with the results of realignment, some will be disappointed, some will be angry, and some will not care where their school ends up.

Some schools will end up making more money, some schools will end up making less money, some schools will make the same they were before.

Some schools will be happy with the changes, some schools will not be very happy, some schools will be indifferent on the whole situation.

That is my final prediction, try and make a more accurate one than that because you know you can't.

Bville Hawk 8 years ago

Why don't you just waste a minute of my time...

Eric Dawson 8 years ago

How does KU get an invite to the B1G? Here's one possible scenario...

Recent news: A&M to SEC OU/OSU want Pac1# ACC increasing conference exit fees? ACC talking with tu, might let Austin keep the LHN; T.Tech mentioned as a traveling partner for tu

Assume tu & T.Tech to ACC, A&M to SEC, OU/OSU to Pac1#.

What happens if the ACC makes the next realignment move, and does it big? Imagine this:

ACC< BC Clemson Duke Florida St Ga Tech Maryland Miami NC NC St Wake Forest Virginia Va Tech tu T TECH RUTGERS SYRACUSE AAU members.

The ACC can be a sleeping giant here if it can keep all its teams and get Rutgers and Syracuse to ignore the Rust Belt.

Suspending disbelief for the next few minutes, imagine this:

SEC< Alabama Auburn Arkansas Florida UG UK LSU Ole Miss Miss St S Car Tenn Vandy TAMU WVU PITT MU*

OU & OSU go to the Pac1#:

PAC1#< UofA ASU Cal CU Oregon OR St Stanford UCLA USC Utah UW Wash St OKLAHOMA OK ST

15 BSU ?

16 TCU ? (see below on ?)

The B1G finally gets the Irish with BEast FB gutted. With tu, Rutgers, Syracuse and Pitt taken, the B1G is sore pressed to find members with both the AAU creds and market draw it wants.

B1G< ILL IU Iowa Mich Mich St Minn NU (AAU voted out after accepting B1G offer) NW Ohio St Penn St Purdue Wisconsin* NOTRE DAME

14 KU ?

15 UCONN ?

16 NAVY ?

REASONING on the ?

The B1G needs 3, the Pac# needs 2 for 16. The remaining B12 & BE FB programs are:

BU ISU KU KSU

Cincy UConn Louisville USF

Other possibles: Army, Navy, AFA Boise St BYU TCU Fresno St Hawaii Houston Memphis UNM Nevada SD St SMU Tulsa UC Florida UNLV Utah St

Which 3 of those left would be most attractive to the B1G here?

I think KU would be offered, but not ISU due to Iowa.

KSU? If the B1G is going to look at any other non-AAU schools, it would look east, perhaps at UConn (a state flagship) to extend it's NE coast footprint beyond Penn State. Add Navy – a national draw, good FB program, foe of Notre Dame – for a presence in the populous mid-Atlantic coast market.

Pac1# -- With KU and MU gone, who does that leave for the Pac1#? KSU and ISU? Little appeal for the Pac1#. Baylor to get into Texas? The secular Pac1# took CU to stop the Texas schools pitching BU in a package deal. Houston is the only significant secular Texas school for the Pac1# to consider. Will the Pac# have the same secular objections with TCU and BYU? Probably. But let's assume the Pac1# decides to further strengthen its FB creds and offer BSU and TCU (the best FB school of the religious schools, and the Dallas and to a lesser extent Texas footprint they want to go with the OK teams).

These former BCS schools get left out:

Big 12: BU, ISU, KSU Big East: Cincy, Louisville, USF

All worth the paper it's written on...

Eric Dawson 8 years ago

Hopefully the messed up earlier version of this has been deleted. Retrying:

How does KU get an invite to the B1G? Here's one possible scenario...

Recent news: TAMU to SEC OU/OSU want Pac1# ACC increasing conference exit fees? ACC talking with tu, might let Austin keep the LHN; T.Tech mentioned as a traveling partner for tu

Assume tu & T.Tech to ACC, A&M to SEC, OU/OSU to Pac1#.

What happens if the ACC makes the next realignment move, and does it big? Imagine this:

ACC BC Clemson Duke Florida St Ga Tech Maryland Miami NC NC St Wake Forest Virginia Va Tech tu T TECH RUTGERS SYRACUSE AAU members.

The ACC can be a sleeping giant here if it can keep all its teams and get Rutgers and Syracuse to ignore the Rust Belt.

Suspending disbelief for the next few minutes, imagine this:

SEC Alabama Auburn Arkansas Florida UG UK LSU Ole Miss Miss St S Car Tenn Vandy TAMU WVU PITT MU*

OU & OSU go to the Pac1#:

PAC1# UofA ASU Cal CU OU OR St Stanford UCLA USC Utah UW Wash St OU OK ST

15 BSU ?

16 TCU ?

The B1G finally gets the Irish with BEast FB gutted. With tu, Rutgers, Syracuse and Pitt taken, the B1G is sore pressed to find members with both the AAU creds and market draw it wants.

B1G ILL IU Iowa Mich Mich St Minn NU (AAU voted out after accepting B1G offer) NW Ohio St Penn St Purdue Wisconsin* NOTRE DAME

14 KU ?

15 UCONN ?

16 NAVY ?

REASONING on the ?

The B1G needs 3, the Pac# needs 2 for 16. The remaining B12 & BE FB programs are:

BU ISU KU KSU

Cincy UConn Louisville USF

Other possibles: Army, Navy, AFA Boise St BYU TCU Fresno St Hawaii Houston Memphis UNM Nevada SD St SMU Tulsa UC Florida UNLV Utah St

Which 3 of those left would be most attractive to the B1G here?

I think KU would be offered, but not ISU due to Iowa.

KSU? If the B1G is going to look at any other non-AAU schools, it would look east, perhaps at UConn (a state flagship) to extend it's NE coast footprint beyond Penn State. Add Navy – a national draw, good FB program, foe of Notre Dame – for a presence in the populous mid-Atlantic coast market.

Pac1# -- With KU and MU gone, who does that leave for the Pac1#? KSU and ISU? Little appeal for the Pac1#. Baylor to get into Texas? The secular Pac1# took CU to stop the Texas schools pitching BU in a package deal. Houston is the only significant secular Texas school for the Pac1# to consider. Will the Pac# have the same secular objections with TCU and BYU? Probably. Let's assume they decide to further strengthening their FB creds and offer BSU and TCU (the best FB school of the religious schools, and the Dallas and to a lesser extent Texas footprint they want to go with the OK teams).

These former BCS schools are left out:

Big 12: BU, ISU, KSU Big East: Cincy, Louisville, USF

Eric Dawson 8 years ago

Well, it's still not as I wanted it, but at least it is legible now. Don't know what hidden formatting codes were included when I copied it from my word processor?!?... Anyway, that was fun...

Rock Chalk!

FLJHK 8 years ago

Rather a stretch on lots of scenarios but I appreciate your considerable efforts. I too believe the B10 is the only path that makes sense and the only one I would be truly happy with. Though remote, I'll not give up that hope.

Eric Dawson 8 years ago

Thanks for the appreciation. Yes, there are some stretches, but then, 10 years ago who -- besides NU -- would have seriously entertained the idea that arguably the 2nd best FB conference in the country -- top 4 for sure -- was going to implode in 10 years?

Heck, who would have ever thought tu to the ACC at all before it actually came up this week?

Having attended Indiana as well as KU and TAMU, I know first hand that the B1G is definitely the best cultural fit of all the non-Big 12 options out there for KU. Will be quite happy if that's where the Jayhawks land.

SeattleTom 8 years ago

It is hard to predict because there are so many moving pieces. For example the ACC:

If Texas (and TT) goes there, UCONN and Syracuse might jump there also. But if Texas doesn't go there, the ACC might get picked over. I've heard the Big10 possibly looking at Maryland, Virginia, Duke and N. Carolina along with some NE Big East teams. The SEC might be looking at some ACC schools also.

So the ACC might be full up if they are the raiders but they also might get picked over. Not sure Kansas would want in the picked over league, not sure there'd be room if Texas, TT join and they get Syracuse and UCONN (although KU/MU would be equal option).

I don't get all the "West Coast is so far away" posts followed by "we want access to California" comments on all the expansion boards (not so much here). You can't have it both ways, lol. I'd take Kansas in the Pac any day of the week, much more of a cultural fit than Oklahoma, imo.

Eric Dawson 8 years ago

Not really a prediction, just showing how it could happen that KU could end up with offers from both the B1G (my preferred option) and/or the Pac1#. Would be more fun if it weren't so darned serious for the future of so many schools.

I just hope more Pac1# folks, especially those in decision making positions, are of your mind set re: KU, Tom!

FreeRider 8 years ago

$300 million over 20 years is the only thing that matters in regards to the LHN. Money speaks!

John Brown 8 years ago

I think that Texas and OU as institutions of higher learning give little hope for the future. The "don't think about the footprint that you are leaving" mentality is the thinking that is leading our country to disaster. As a country, we complain about our health care economic situation and yet we are the worlds biggest society of overconsumers. We don't exercist and we'll eat everything that gets in our path. I'm not impressed by the lack of honor.

Jack Wilson 8 years ago

Matt - great job as usual.

I would not be so quick, though, to minimize Beebe's failure here.

This is about leadership. Leaders reign in the rouge forces; leaders provide direction and vision; leaders ensure that soldiers are all rowing in the same direction; leaders convince those that they lead, to be a part of a team; leaders know their soldiers, and their needs. More than anything, leaders are ahead of the curve, not behind it.

This is a distinct and obvious failure of leadership.

I also think that the failure and leadership can be traced to the manner in which the league was held together in 2010.

Beebe's fault (or failure) is the primary factor here, in my humble opinion. Three defections on his watch. So far.

hawksince51 8 years ago

I would like to agree with you because I loved what the Big Man(gino) did for KU football capped off by the Orange Bowl win. But, I cannot ignore how the program and our record imploded his last year. I went to the CU game in 2009 and it was obvious that the team (even with Reesing, Meier, and Briscoe) was weak and disorganized and the rest of the season was a disaster. So, I really do not feel we would have done significantly better in the 2010 season under Mangino--especially considering that the 3 aforementioned top players were gone. And in 2011, while all of this is playing out, we have started 2-0. So I have to totally disagree with you.

d_park 8 years ago

KU has been pretty quiet this whole time........just like Nebraska going stealth on their Big 10 jump. Maybe SZ has something worked out already. Hopefully, it's with those guys up North. I'm optimistic.

pepper_bar 8 years ago

It's more a matter of KU can't possibly afford the buyout required to leave the conference.

If the Pac 12 announced today that KU was invited to join, KU couldn't accept. Jayhawks are stuck in the Big IX until / unless it dissolves.

d_park 8 years ago

It's no problem. I'll pay the penalty for KU leaving the Big 12 out of my own pockets.

lothario64118 8 years ago

AP Source: Pittsburgh, Syracuse apply to join ACC.

"Um, note to Kansas Board of Regents from the Kansas Chancellor and AD screw KSU! We're going to have a hard enough time trying to get into PAC-12 or ACC. Making us a "combo" package is only going to hurt us not help us. And to hell with the B.E. that conference is going to crumble in a couple years."

Do whatever it takes KU and be proactive NOT reactive. Please.

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