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Realignment Today: 2:28 p.m. - All systems go: Mizzou to leave Big 12; West Virginia set to join

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2:28 p.m. Update:

At this point, it would be far more shocking if the Tigers did not leave and West Virginia did not become the Big 12's 10th team.

That's where we're at with regard to conference realignment and how it affects the Big 12.

What we don't know, though less, remains substantial.

For starters, we're still trying to nail down whether adding West Virginia and sticking at 10 will be the way the Big 12 goes or if the league will look to add a couple more teams, Louisville, Cincinnati, BYU and others among them.

Sources have told the Journal-World repeatedly and for the past couple of weeks that the league will stay at 10 once Missouri leaves and West Virginia is added. Mizzou's announcement could come today and reports indicate that a similar announcement regarding WVU would come quickly after that.

That's for now. The possibility certainly still exists that the Big 12 would look to expand back to 12 in the near future, be that with one of those teams already mentioned or perhaps some school a little more outside of the box such as South Florida, Tulane, Notre Dame or Boise State.

The other big question that looms now is how quickly all of this can happen. Will Missouri be able to join the SEC next season like Texas A&M or will the Tigers have to spend one final year in the Big 12? I'm sure if it's up to MU, they'll be gone immediately, but, sources have told me, that could impact the final figure in the exit fees MU would have to pay. It's a sticky situation and one that could take this whole thing on a turn for the worse long after the actual decision has been made.

Along those same lines, West Virginia may be stuck in the Big East for 27 months like Syracuse and Pitt, which announced in September that they were leaving the league for the ACC.

As with any of these types of situations, money will play a huge role. Perhaps Syracuse, Pitt and WVU can up their exit fees in order to get out earlier. At this point, it does not look like the Big East is interested in letting them go before the waiting period expires. But more money could change their minds.

The other thing that could change things is the fact that WVU's move could do permanent damage to the league. If UConn and Rutgers follow Syracuse and Pitt to the ACC — as has been rumored for some time — that could be the final blow to the Big East as we know it, freeing up every school in that conference that plays football to look for a new home. It's likely that no matter what happens, the basketball members of the Big East would stick together in some form or another.

So there you have it. We're closer to some answers and still days, weeks, maybe even months, away from others.

Par for the course in conference realignment, I guess.

Stay tuned...

10:49 a.m. Update:

One more re: West Virginia to the Big 12. Pete Thamel, of The New York Times, writes that it's all but done.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/sports/ncaafootball/West-Virginia-Big-12-Big-East.html?_r=1&ref=sports

Thamel also said that sources told him the Big 12 is content to stay at 10 after adding WVU.

This thing may be coming to a close, folks.

Stay tuned...

10:23 a.m. Update:

After making a series of brief comments to KOMU-TV late Monday night (see 10:39 update below), Missouri chancellor Brady Deaton picked up where he left off on Tuesday morning, commenting on radio shows and to reporters about where the Tigers currently stand.

The consensus? Mizzou is headed to the SEC. Deaton said a formal announcement could come in "days" and likely would not take more than "a week or two." The actual decision, which seems to already have been made, could be revealed much sooner, perhaps as soon as today.

Here's the gist of what Deaton has said so far today, courtesy of a series of Tweets from Dave Matter, MU beat writer for the Columbia Tribune, and Vahe Gregorian, MU beat writer at the St. Louis Post-Dispatch:

https://twitter.com/#!/Dave_Matter

https://twitter.com/#!/vgregorian

• Deaton says he regrets the "wish them well" line from last night's interview. Added that abstaining from the voting all day at Big 12 meetings inspired the "them" mentality.

• Deaton expressed an urgency in wanting to get this thing put behind him so that Mizzou and the Big 12 could both move on.

• Deaton said he hoped to have some issues resolved by the end of the day. Those "issues" could include making the news final but not yet formal.

• Deaton made it clear that there's nothing the Big 12 can do to save the Tigers now.

• Deaton: "Our head has to outweigh our heart... because the heart won't lead to where the university needs to be going."

With the Mizzou news seeming firm, the focus shifts to what's next for the Big 12. Conference officials have vowed that they have a Plan A and a Plan A-1 and things will move quickly once MU makes its intentions known. SI.com, through comments from the Big East, seems to think that means West Viriginia to the Big 12 is a done deal.

http://tracking.si.com/2011/10/25/big-12-lines-up-west-virginia-to-potentially-replace-missouri/?eref=twitter_feed

Brett McMurphy, of CBSsports.com, also filed a report saying WVU is on deck and an invitation from the Big 12 will be extended within 24-48 hours of Mizzou's departure announcement.

http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32936807

One more thing before I head off for the new few hours to hear Turner Gill talk about KU's match-up with Texas this week, Dennis Dodd of CBSsports.com filed this report about the idea of Notre Dame joining the Big 12 in all sports but football.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/32936384?ttag=gen10_on_all_fb_na_txt_0001

Enjoy. I'll check back in when we're done with Gill.

Stay tuned...

10:39 p.m. Update:

It took a while, but we finally got something out of Columbia, Mo.

Missouri chancellor Brady Deaton spoke tonight to KOMU-TV in Columbia, Mo., regarding the Tigers ongoing dilemma of staying in the Big 12 or heading to the SEC.

Here's the bulk of what Deaton said:

"There's no delays here at all. There's some very specific things that have to be adressed. We want to address those. We really can't rush these things. These are things you can't rush. I know fans get impatient I gotta say I'm very sympathetic. What I hope they will understand that this is not a set of issues that one can just press a button and be done with it. There are some issues that have to be adressed on behalf of the University of Missouri and that's what we're doing, looking out for the University of Missouri."

According to the station's report on its web site, when Deaton was asked if MU had enough votes to join the SEC, he said: "I'll let them speak for themselves, we're reasonably clear about where we stand."

Here's the link to the report, which includes video of Deaton's comments.

http://www.komu.com/news/exclusive-deaton-comments-on-big-12-meeting/

Maybe tomorrow. Stay tuned....

5:49 p.m. Update:

Internet and Twitter reports now indicate that a move by Missouri to withdraw from the Big 12 may not happen today. Those same reports, however, indicate that the move remains imminent.

Multiple media outlets that cover the Tigers posted such news a short while ago. Some expressed that they were surprised the move did not happen today. One, via confirmation from interim Big 12 commissioner Chuck Neinas, said the Tigers did not submit their withdrawal from the league nor notify Big 12 officials of their intention to do so.

Cold feet? Change of heart? Or simply Missouri being Missouri?

Who knows. Maybe we'll find out more tomorrow... Or perhaps still tonight.

Stay tuned....

5:23 p.m. Update:

The first inkling of news from the Big 12 or Missouri just surfaced on the Big 12's official web site.

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&ATCLID=205321841

Here's what the league had to say regarding today's meeting:

In a regularly-scheduled meeting today at an undisclosed Dallas area location, the Big 12 Conference Board of Directors reaffirmed previous action to execute institutional grants of Tier 1 (over-the-air) and Tier 2 (cable) television rights to the Conference.

The Board also discussed a wide range of topics including NCAA legislation, the Bowl Championship Series, and exploration of a Conference dedicated TV network. Additionally, a strong desire for the University of Missouri to maintain its Big 12 affiliation was expressed. All 10 member institutions and TCU participated in the meeting.

Let's see where it goes from here.

Stay tuned...

3:55 p.m. Update:

More speculation out there about who will replace Missouri in the Big 12. Most believed that replacing Texas A&M with TCU was a pretty good score for the league. TCU may not quite be what A&M is today. But joining the Big 12 certainly gives TCU that type of potential long-term.

So what will it take to equal Missouri? Not nearly as much. It's obvious, by now, that Louisville, West Virginia and BYU are among the top candidates to join the league.

Nailing down any of those three will take some work. With that in mind, there has been more speculation out there that includes names like Tulane, South Florida and even San Diego State.

Here's a recent take from Mikie DeCourcy of The Sporting News on the possibility of adding South Florida. I'm all for it. I'd love regular trips to Tampa.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-10-24/big-12-surprise-usf-could-be-wild-card

Regardless of which school or schools the Big 12 would add once Mizzou leaves, it looks as if it may happen quickly. The following, from ESPN Dallas a couple of days ago, includes comments from OU athletic director Joe Castiglione on the Big 12's plans.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/story/_/id/7137504/big-12-replace-missouri-tigers-quickly-mu-leaves-conference

Still waiting for word from Columbia, Mo. Everything and everyone is eerily quiet right now.

Stay tuned....

2:38 p.m. Update:

Gabe DeArmond, of PowerMizzou.com, just Tweeted that he's hearing more confirmations that the Tigers will announce plans to leave the Big 12 today.

No time frame given, but the guess here is that it'll be in the next couple of hours.

Stay tuned...

2:07 p.m. Update:

While we wait, here are a couple of things I've been able to nail down in the past several days from pretty good sources... Nothing for sure on any fronts yet but interesting to note, nonetheless.

• BYU not likely to join the Big 12. There was interest from both parties, but there are a lot of hang ups that make this marriage tough to envision.

• Bohls' report that WVU is the leader makes sense because of the strength of the WVU football program, but I don't think the gap between WV and Louisville is very big at all. There's serious interest on Louisville's part about joining the Big 12 and, obviously, the Big 12 at least has interest in Louisville. One possible hang up here is if the trio of Louisville, WVU and Cincy want to come as a packaged deal. Not sure they have the leverage to do that, but they might if BYU is out and the Big 12's next option beyond those three is someone like Tulane or South Florida (just tossing out names there).

• Heard multiple times and from multiple sources that Texas wants the league to stay at 10. At the same time, several coaches and even a few administrators have said that 12 is the better number. It's nothing to get alarmed about, but this could be the next battle that catches headlines once Missouri makes up its mind. My guess is that this decision won't come down to making UT or anyone else happy. It will come down to the attractiveness of the schools willing and able to join the Big 12. If there are 3 that everyone likes, they'll go back to 12. If there are only one or two, they'll stay at 10.

• Lastly, I feel more and more certain that if MU leaves the Border War is finished. I know that's no revelation, but people are still speculating on what will happen. If you have the chance to make a bet on this, bet that the rivalry's done. Just don't bet big.

Stay tuned...

1:41 p.m. Update:

Looks like there was a little bit of a travel delay for some Big 12 administrators on the way to Dallas. Definitely slowed down the day's news. But it seems that everyone's there now and I'm sure talks are ongoing.

Should be an interesting afternoon.

Stay tuned...

11:54 a.m. Update:

By now, you all know that the entire Big 12 is waiting on Missouri to make a decision between staying in the league it has called home for the last 16 years (and then some, if you go back to the Big Eight, etc.) or heading off to the supposed greener pastures of the SEC.

We're now well into our second month — second year, some would say — of waiting on the Tigers and it's quite clear that some, if not most, people around the conference are getting tired of the wait.

The word that came from MU last Friday seemed to tip the Tigers' hand. In the days since then, the MU to the SEC movement has picked up a lot of steam, with several different media outlets expecting a announcement to that end to come sometime today.

One big question surrounding all of this is whether the Tigers have an official offer from the SEC. There's nothing official yet and there won't be until the Tigers pull out of the Big 12. Think back to how the SEC handled the Texas A&M move. It was done this exact same way, with one SEC official even saying that the league would not touch the Aggies until they "broke up" with the Big 12.

That's where we're at with Missouri and that's just smart business by the SEC. No need to open yourself up to legal issues if you don't have to.

Having said that, you can bet there's some sort of under-the-table, handshake deal in place if MU is going to go so far as to pull out of the Big 12, which now looks very likely.

The Big 12 board of directors are meeting in Dallas today. One of the topics of that meeting is how to handle Missouri. So now we wait. Will the Tigers be the first to act here or will the league beat them to the punch and issue an ultimatum of sorts? At this point, it would be a great move for the league to go ahead and do that.

Think of it as the same thing as the Pac-12 jumping ahead of OU's announcement that the Sooners were returning to the Big 12. Who looked foolish and who looked strong in that instance?

Getting back to that notion of people getting tired of waiting on the Tigers, here's a link to Kirk Bohls' blog in the Austin American-Statesman which includes quotes from two unnamed Big 12 administrators regarding their disdain for the Tigers and what might be the next move for the Big 12.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/bohls/entries/2011/10/23/west_virginia_t.html

The money quotes from the blog are:

On what's next for the Big 12:
"I’d say West Virginia is the leader in the clubhouse. I think we’ll come out better than before. I’d rather be with someone who wants to be with our conference than anybody who doesn’t.”

On why bringing in WVU would make the league stronger:
“West Virginia has better football than Missouri, better basketball than Missouri, a better budget than Missouri and more passion among its fans than Missouri. They’re better, anyway you turn ‘em. The travel’s not good (to Morgantown, W. Va) but that’s it.”

More to come as word from today's Big 12 meeting starts to leak. We'll also keep an eye on what's happening in Columbia, Mo.

Stay tuned...

Comments

Ludwig Supraphonic 6 years ago

Sorry the Border War will likely have a lackluster finish. MU will become irrelevant to me; as they already are to most college sports fans.

kureader 6 years ago

MU is getting alot of publicity lately. We're lead to believe that MU's football program is a really big deal and a "sought after commodity" by the SEC.

Wait a minute. MU has won only one more game than KU this year. They're 3-4. Their only 3 wins were over Western Illinois, Miami of Ohio and Iowa State. That's supposed to be impressive?

While, they'll probably get their fourth win over KU. They'll still need 2 additional wins to become bowl eligible. They have four chances to pick up those last two wins ... Three of their last four opponents are ranked (Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech), and the fourth game is against Baylor AT Baylor. Their football season will end the same day ours does.

Good riddance MU. Take your mediocre football program and get lost.

Ben Kane 6 years ago

just leave already.

Bob Huggy: "Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in."

KuKain 6 years ago

Would love to see Huggy's first game back at the Hawktagon of Doom.

jgkojak 6 years ago

Yes, good riddance. If we didn't need MUs cash to buy out Turner's contract, I'd say just kick 'em out.

That said... notice all the talk is of Louisville/WVU and not BYU. Guessing BYU told the B12 no dice.

I say we bite the bullet, expand to 12, and bring in Louisville, WVU and Tulane (to balance out the poorer academics of the former 2).

SoCalAlum 6 years ago

I was posting as you were posting, but I agree (see below) about Tulane.

Matt Bowers 6 years ago

What makes sense is WVU, Louisville, and Cincinnati. SoCal you make a good point about recruiting in Louisiana, but do you really think that one school will out weigh the SEC?

I do think that the Big 12 should be at 12. BYU doesn't make any sense to me, why send all of our sports to one team in Utah? It doesn't help any program in the Big 12 and I don't see it helping us with recruiting, maybe them it would help.

Rock Chalk

Mike Barnhart 6 years ago

There aren't enough people in the land between here and the west coast. While West Virginia isn't really metropolitan, it is in the middle of the eastern population base.

texashawk10 6 years ago

Hell no to Tulane! I don't give a crap how good they are academically, their athletic department still hasn't recovered from Katrina and should probably be dropped to the Southland Conference to give them a fair chance to compete. They finished 70th in the Director's Cup (top athletic departments) standings the year before Katrina hit, and haven't finished better than 142nd since Katrina. They don't have any kind of fan support to justify bringing them into the conference. Last week I watched a few minutes of their game with UTEP and there couldn't have been more than about a couple of thousand people physically at the game. Their local enrollment is minimal because of their academic standards and their alumni don't care at all about athletics otherwise they would have their own football stadium and would've made more strides in the 6 seasons post Katrina.

As for actually playing in New Orleans, in a 12 team conference the football team would visit there ONCE during a players career, basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, and soccer would visit there TWICE during there careers and the other sports are either meets/tournament sports that don't guarantee a visit to New Orleans at any point in their careers. New Orleans is also a smaller TV market compared to other options so if the Big 12 is going to go after a small, elite academic private school, go after Tulsa because they at least have a solid athletic department and their TV market isn't much smaller than New Orleans.

nuleafjhawk 6 years ago

And how much time, exactly, do you think the players are going to spend down at Pat O'Brien's knockin back Hurricanes ???

The players don't give a crap if they're in Tulsa, New Orleans or Columbia, Mo.

They're supposed to be there to play football.

nuleafjhawk 6 years ago

lol - a little testy aren't we junior?

just because you're wrong doesn't mean you have to be ill-mannered.

Lighten up Francis

texashawk10 6 years ago

If I'm a recruit, I care more about winning and that's not going to happen at Tulane unless I'm a baseball player.

jgkojak 6 years ago

Attendance: Tulane Tulane 15,912 - 19,752 - 23,188 - 16,690 - 25,158

Hardley a "couple thousand" and I promise if some of those games featured nationally ranked teams - that would be higher.

Give them 2-3 yrs recruiting in the B12 and they'll be relevant.

texashawk10 6 years ago

The listed attendance is tickets sold, not people in the seats. Next time Tulane is on at home, watch the game for a little bit and tell me if those listed numbers are even close to the number of people in the seats.

texashawk10 6 years ago

Since it took about two seconds to do so, yes.

ltownatrain 6 years ago

Um here's the problem with your TV market Arguement....The Big 12 already owns the Tulsa Market with Oklahoma and T Boone Pickens State, what they don't own is New orleans, which, makes it a far far bigger market than tulsa, rice, smu etc... all names that fans want to throw out there.

SoCalAlum 6 years ago

Hey Matt - as always, you're doing as great job in coverage. I'd like to see Tulane get some consideration as possible member...granted (other than baseball maybe) they haven't been competitive even in C-USA. But, there are a few excellent reasons why they'd be a good addition to Big 12: (1) they're an AAU institution; (2) teams get to visit New Orleans; (3) open up Louisiana for recruiting; (4) probably endowed and supported well-enough to step it up a bit to compete; (5) even vaunted SEC has a counterpart - Vandy; Big 10 too - Northwestern.

Continue the great work.

jgkojak 6 years ago

Agree completely about Tulane -

Add Duke to the comparables list as well.

And remember, in 1998 they went 11-0 and finished #10 in the BCS standings - had this happened in 2008, we'd have a different opinion of their football viability.

Basically - they have an endowment as large as the members of the B12, academic standing better than most of the B12, and geographically fit in nicely.

Makes sense to me - and would balance losing two AAU schools recently.

FLJHK 6 years ago

Big 12 needs to get back to 12 teams and I totally support Tulane being one, for all of the reasons you mention. Louisville should be another, certainly over W. Va. Multiple contenders for the final slot.

jaycon11 6 years ago

i can think of two excellent reasons why tulane will never be considered: 1) not only do they suck at football 49 out of every 50 years, but they bring about 1000 eyeballs to the market. there is no television market potential for this move. new orleans is 99.9999% lsu fans, and the handful of outlier tulane fans don't even bother to drive into the city to see the football games. the most recent high attendance mark in 1987 (5th highest overall) averaged 39,000 tickets sold per game--that was 24 yrs ago! this year its 20,000 assess in the seats, and the final average will be around 18,000. 2) louisiana is open for recruiting, including the big 12; the problem is that most kids in the state will pick lsu first as long as lsu has a history of being a winning program. for kids in h.s. now, lsu's program has been damn good for much of their memory. 5-star recruits who can be nabbed will most likely sign with 'bama, since saban still has an active recruiting network in the state. if academics are important, why not go with harvard? they only suck a bit more at football, and bring in a higher academic tradition.

ltownatrain 6 years ago

Um Jaycon11, I live in NOLA it is in no way 99.99999% lsu fans. Down here we are like Texas....We think we are our own Damn country and not part of the State of Louisiana.

jaycon11 6 years ago

um, ltownatrain, i live close enough to n'awlunz to see the light pollution to the northeast. i've only met a couple of folks from the city who were tulane fans in all my decades down here--metairie folks, actually. you should know that local radio covers tulane football only sparingly (i cannot think of a single sports radio show ever having been dedicated solely to tulane football on 870, 690, or now 1350am until this year; can you?). the same stations cover lsu football on a daily basis, including hours dedicated to only lsu football every week. not to mention game broadcasts. even tulane's flagship radio (690, which has a very small radio audience), covers lsu football on an order ot 10:1 to tulane football every day. while it's true that the city might embrace tulane football as art of a major conference one day, it is a mightly large "might" to base a decision like conference inclusion, wouldn't you say?

Jack Wilson 6 years ago

Tulane: Ugh. I just threw up in my mouth.

Stephan123 6 years ago

Louisville, West Virginia and Cincinnati would be good additions to the league. While those three teams and their new T.V. markets wait 27 or so months to join, the remaining loyal, Big 12 teams can rake in some extra T.V. revenue and fat A&M and MU exit fees.

Kevin Huffman 6 years ago

No way could you add WVU alone and make it a 10-team league. If WVU has interest in us and us in them then it can only really work as a 12-team league in which you AT LEAST would add Louisville as a "part of the way there" intermediate team from the farthest east team in Ames, IA out to Morgantown, WV.

11 would be easy. If it was then decided to go to 12, the 12th team would be the bigger question....reach out West also to BYU, reach for the stars for Notre Dame (would fit well with the additions of WVU & Louisville) or add Cinci. who seems like they're always attached at the hip to 'ville because of geography.

Jayhawk444 6 years ago

first - I hate Mizzou, but I don't want to see them leave. Intense rivalries are a good thing, and it would be too bad if we lost our biggest one.

second - I wonder why WVU has jumped ahead of BYU as the top replacement candidate for Mizzou (if, in fact, they have). BYU was all but in a few weeks ago. I think there was some issue with BYU's financials, but it appears BYU is still on the list, so why have they apparently dropped? Has anybody ever been to Morgantown? Or anywhere in West Va for that matter? ...just sayin, cuz I am curious what the expansion committee is thinking.

franklin2739 6 years ago

Yes, I've been there. They are rabid football fans. Also, prone to commit violence if their team doesn't win. The difference between WV"U and MU is that the whole state cares about that school since there are no major sports francises there. I think they will take MU's place as the school everybody will hate. You will hate their red neck fans, hate playing them, and get spit on if you go to a game in Morgantown. Just like MU.

That said, I'm all for adding them. We just won't have the historic rivalry, Which does suck, no matter how much you hate MU it is fun to play them. College games should mean something, but based on what is happening WVU makes sense.

blindrabbit 6 years ago

I thought we would get rid of the "junk" in the conference by Missouri leaving, but I'm convinced that by adding West Virginia, Louisville or Cincy we would be sinking deeper. Go for Houston, SMU, Rice or Tulane if you want to improve your standards!

MWShields 6 years ago

Matt, let's talk ND for a minute. I keep hearing that Dodds and Swarbrick are talking and that ND might consider placing it's non-football sports in the B12. I can't imagine why the B12 would do that unless they had some intelligence on the TV front that ND's leverage with the networks is dwindling due to poor on-field performance and that ND in the B12 would generate more than the Pac 12 1st tier deal. There must be a feeling that they could land ND in all sports eventually otherwise this move has no value.

Thoughts?

Matt Tait 6 years ago

Bingo. Accepting them in the other sports opens the door for them to come in for football eventually. If you ask me, it's worth the risk if the Domers are willing to do it. Rather see the Big 12 get 'em than the Big Ten.

And let's be honest, with the Big East maybe falling apart, ND may need to look somewhere...

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

Two Drama Queens could provide balance.

Andy Tweedy 6 years ago

My daughter is a drama queen, and I'm always hoping her new friends are NOT! More drama is always bad!!!

texashawk10 6 years ago

Matt, if the Big East dissolves as a football conference, does ND actually have any incentive to leave there? They would be left with a bunch of fellow Catholic schools in the league and I would guess be able to add to schools like Xavier, St. Louis, Duquesne, or Detroit to get to however many basketball schools they want so what incentive is there for Notre Dame to leave a conference filled with a bunch of schools that share the same values as they do that would still be very competitive in most sports?

Matt Tait 6 years ago

Solid question. My guess is that, while you're right that the other sports would still have partners, the general instability of the conference would surely make them a little uneasy about hitching their wagon to the Big East.

That said, if the Big 12 could find a way to hammer home stability in this conference, that could help entice ND to at least give the league a serious look.

It seems as if the talk and bond between UT and ND is real so the main thing holding Notre Dame back right now is the outlook for the Big 12's future...

Wild stuff.

FLJHK 6 years ago

If there's any remote chance of getting Notre Dame, even if it's only non-football sports to begin with, you at least reach out and have the discussion. To not do so would simply be irresponsible. The entire image of the conference would immediately change for the better if they became a full member. It's the only school that could make Missouri and Nebraska regret their decisions.

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

It would have PR value. Big12 would go from the verge of collapse to adding Notre Dame. And, when/if the NBC contract goes away, the Big12 would be first in line to accept ND a full member. And as we all know, the Big12 has a very open Tier 3 money policy that would allow ND to create their own Irish Network to replace NBC money if that would ever happen.

Kyle Sybesma 6 years ago

I was looking for someone who shared this idea. I think your exactly right.

Brian Skelly 6 years ago

From what it sounds like the BYU idea has resistance on both sides. My concern with them has been simply logistical. Not having another team out West besides them just seems silly to me. It sounds to like they have a fairly long list of demands as well (doesnt everyone now days?). I cant see them being outta the picture completely, but I for one cant envision them joining or being invited.

I've said all along Louisville makes far to much sense not to add. The idea of West Virgina makes less sense, but its football program is one of the few remotely good ones left as an expansion possibility. Regardless the Big 12 needs to be twelve.

What ive NOT understood with all of this is why is the scenario 12 if (when) Mizzou leaves, but it would stay at 10 if Mizzou stayed? Seems amazingly shortsighted to me. I know where thats coming from too, but it still makes me nuts they cant see their hand in front of their faces sometimes.

It's staggering how stupid our conference is. I get that ego, greed, and envy are the currency of the day but it wouldnt have taken a whole lot of common sense and many of the issues we have are nullified, at least to some degree.

I dont want Mizzou to go, but I understand why they are doing it. I dont live in KC, so the angst in regards to the move isnt the same... but entirely understand it. And its justified, despite their half-baked efforts to deflect the real issue away from themselves. Im just tired of the drama from them. I think thats the main thing that most of the Big 12 schools feel about them, even if they'd like them to stay.

At some point them being whiny @#$ @#$^$@^* is simply too grating to deal with anymore. Buh-bye Tigers.

FreddyinLA 6 years ago

Houston - 6th largest metro area and undefeated in football. Would help KU in recruiting both football and basketball.

SMU - June Jones building a nice program and adds another stop in the Dallas metro area. Another no brainer.

Tulane. Roadies to New Orleans works for me. Opens up Louisiana for recruiting football. LSU rejects will work fine for KU.

Roadie to Provo and Morgantown blow.

Ron Prichard 6 years ago

Here is an article that seems to indicate there is no real consensus on who could replace MU, only that 10 will be the number for next year:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/watch/2011/10/poach-or-not-poach-big-12-s-dilemma

Also, here's some more BYU stuff:

http://kansascity.sbnation.com/missouri-tigers/2011/10/23/2508775/big-12-realignment-conference-reportedly-no-longer-interested-in

http://www.cougarcorner.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10398&start=30

It's kind of interesting to read the thoughts of fans of other schools.

Matt, we know it just means extra work for you when this comes up but we appreciate your daily updates. I consistently check for your updates before looking anywhere else because I know you will have the latest stuff. Thanks again!

Phoghorn 6 years ago

Okay...latest from Columbia... Meting started with cash bar and hors' de overs. Was told to pardon the dirty plates, it was the best that Cold Water could do. Then was told to pardon the dirty glasses, but it was the best that Cold Water could do. Finally, one of Mizzou's biggest boosters set his dirty plate down on the floor and said "here Cold Water...Here boy..."

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

I think two time zones are enough. Let focus on all the teams being in the Central and Eastern timezones. Assuming that Mizzou leaves, I think there are three options:

BIG12 - Take WVU, Louisville, Cincy to grow back to 12 teams. Championship game in Dallas.

BIG14 - Take WVU, Louisville, Cincy, UConn, Rutgers to grow to 14 teams. Rutgers is AAU, UCONN claims that they are close to being accepted AAU. Two divisions of 7 teams, Championship in Dallas

BIG15 - Take WVU, Louisville, Cincy, UConn, Rutgers and Notre Dame for basketball and three additional conference games per year in football, one with Texas in Jerry's World the day after Thanksgiving replacing Texas AM and the other two rotating with all other Big12 teams: one in Chicago's Soldier Field and the other at ND. Money can worked out. Two division of 7, Championship still in Dallas. Three division of 5 in Basketball. BB Championship in KANSAS city

Since two of my options take most of the BigEast, we should get their AQ bid too. Two AQ Big15 teams go to the BCS Bowls with a possible two more 'at-large' bids. That's not going to happen but it would be fun to ask for!

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

Sorry South Florida. You are the odd man out. Good luck.

Ervin O'Neal 6 years ago

While it would be great for KU fans to have the BB championship game in Kansas City, I can't imagine any major conference voting to pour money from a tournament into a state that does not have a school in that conference. For this reason, KC (and Kansas fans) will lose big when Mizzou bolts. But they won't lose as big as Mizzou football does when their schedule is loaded with SEC schools.

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

Then there is only one choice for the BB Championship if they want to play Men's and Women's in the same town: OKC with Ford and Cox.

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

Then there is only one choice for the BB Championship if they want to play Men's and Women's in the same town: OKC with Ford and Cox.

Eric Harrison 6 years ago

Add BYU, Boise State and Air Force in 2013 to get to 12 (the same year Mizzou leaves) (do the North-South divisions with Oklahoma State joining the North for a year). Add WVU, Louisville, Cincy and Memphis to get to 16 in 2014. Create 4 Pods: West: Boise, BYU, AFA, Kansas State (FB: 1-Top 15, 2 Top 30, 1 Top 50. BB: 1 Top 30, 1-2 Top 50) South: Texas, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech (FB: 1-Top 15, 3 Top 30, BB: 2 Top 30) East: Louis, Cincy, WVU, Memphis (1FB: 1- Top 15. BB: 2 Top 15, 2 Top 30) North: Kansas, Iowa State, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma (2 top 15 football. BB: 1 Top 15, 1 Top 30).

LSHawk 6 years ago

Any of the schools out west dont make any sense, the travel would be a killer not to mention the time zone. Going east is really the best option although Tulane or Houston are not bad ideas.

Eric Harrison 6 years ago

If you go big and pick up 3 of them (BYU, Boise and AFA/CSU) there are plenty of 'small travel' trips.
Same can be said with the east ones (Louis, Cincy, WVU, Memphis, ND (one can dream)). Sure there are big travel times, but you have to realize that Boise, BYU, AFA and all of the pac10, etc. are used to flying everywhere (and they've been doing alright with not hemorrhaging money all while having the sh*ttiest tv contract of any of the major conferences)

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

I like Tulane on paper being AAU and fun Road Trips. Except for that Championship vs 'Cuse in 2003. But the Green Wave are getting killed in Conference USA. Adding Houston doesn't add TV sets; it's as bad as adding TCU.

Eric Harrison 6 years ago

I wish Tulane wasn't worthless (road trips, recruiting LA, major TV market would be an awesome add) but unfortunately they are worthless. The tourism is bouncing back from the Katrina, Tulane hasn't yet (applications still down, football as as as it's been in decades).

Eric Harrison 6 years ago

Under the former leadership I'd have agreed with you. But the ACC and SEC going to 14 is a first step that has changed things a little in my opinion.

I am hoping that Chuck is forward thinking like Larry Scott and goes to 16. Getting to 12 is too hard unless it's just the BEast schools ... but we'd be at 9 for a season until they got out of their BEast obligation, so that's not ideal. Boise State and/or BYU create major travel distances even if though they could join 'in time'. So why not add them all in one announcement and become a major power broker/conference? Football would add AFA & BYU (inter)national brands, Boise's quasi-national brand, TCUs talent, WVUs talent and passionate fanbase. Basketball would be conference 1A or 1B along with the ACC and no one else within a million miles.

My suggestion is a bit of a dream, but forward thinking nonetheless and really, Texas couldn't be too upset about it bc we aren't adding Texas schools and we aren't adding anyone who challenges their political clout (due to the fact that we added east and west and they likely wouldn't band together due to geographical distance/differences).

Kyle Cornish 6 years ago

BYU would be the best. It has a HUGE following... Think Notre Dame. Most people don't realize, but they travel amazingly and have millions upon millions of TV sets. They immediately fall to third in that category behind Texas and Oklahoma.

blindrabbit 6 years ago

lonestar: Maybe a little too much Lonestar or Shiner Bock when formulating your conference expansion ideas. What infatuation with eastern schools, part of a different world than the Midwest.

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

The West doesn't excite me with the available teams out there. Boise State is just a few years from being a JuCo. Their graduation rate is awful! BYU is the only good team in the West. If we are stopping at 10 (the Texas Plan) then BYU is the best. But I would like to take the OU Plan and grow to 12 or 14. We are losing two AAU schools in Mizzou and Texas AM; I like the thought of UCONN and Rutgers. And, the Big15 (see above) would be the best Basketball conference in the country. Yes, I know basketball isn't important in all of this. But it is an extra perk.

No other Midwest Teams available. I would love Arkansas and Notre Dame but I am a realist. That isn't happening.

West blows. Midwest has nothing available. That leaves East.

Ervin O'Neal 6 years ago

I attended the Ole Miss vs Arkansas game in Oxford, MS on Saturday (a bucket list game day for sure if you have never been there). Ole Miss is lacking a good QB and is struggling this year (though you couldn't tell when they jumped out to a 17-0 lead). But the stadium still had 57K+ fans in attendance. Arkansas fans (like most SEC schools) travel very well. They made up around 20K of the crowd. When asked about MU fans, I said that the first time they travel to each SEC location, I wouldn't expect even half of the Arkansas crowd. But once the fans realize they are not going to have a winning program each year, you'll be lucky to have 5,000 fans travel further than 250 miles. I don't know who is making the bigger mistake, Mizzou or the SEC.

And that is just for football. Just wait until MU's "great" baseball team has to travel South to the SEC schools where even schools like Ole Miss sell out a 10K seat baseball stadium and recruit local kids that play baseball year-round.

We are giving up a big rivalry. And in the end, we will pity Mizzou as they fade into oblivion within the SEC.

phoggedin 6 years ago

How sure are you about the BYU info, Matt? There's a great deal of smoke from the BYU boards, and I'm wondering whether this is some recent development (a change today) or if this is something you've been hearing for several days.

Matt Tait 6 years ago

Not new today... Just what I've been consistently hearing for the last 5 or 6 days.

Never say never, especially with realignment.

ejlumus 6 years ago

Best case ..... miszzery gtfo

Pay off TG with mizzery $$$$

Hire qualified coach.

Hire Navy Seal for strength & conditioning.

Recruit junkyard dogs!!!!!!!!

Pay Arkansas to joint Big12 with ATM $$$$

Add Notre Dame

Add BYU or WV

There ...... that was easy ..... come on ..... "gitter dun"

Kristen Downing 6 years ago

The Big 12 will only go to ten teams, because why? Because that is what Texas wants.

Eric Harrison 6 years ago

I don't necessarily disagree but Texas might be realizing that their best option is a healthy Big12. No other conference is as much of a push over when it comes to the LHN except the ACC.
And if we add non-Texas schools the 4 TX schools with TT and TCU (and Kansas ISU to some degree) riding UTs coat-tails, it still controls power while giving in 2 major sacrifices (a TX school (which wins it political points in the TX legislature) and going to 12 while still being THE top dog that defacto runs the conference).

ejlumus 6 years ago

Smokescreen .... why? .... because mizzery wants 12 .... after mizzery leaves big 12 goes to 12.

142466 6 years ago

Hope you're right. We need 3 strong invitees to sign up soon, or the league is doomed. Stopping at 10 would terrible. Are the Commissioner and member schools blind? Can't they learn anything from their mistakes of the last three years? Don't they see how the other surviving BCS conferences are expanding?

After getting back to 12, the league better go to 16 pretty soon therafter. That's what the other conferences are doing. Get with it. There aren't that many uncommited schools left in this part of the country.

Kent Gaylor 6 years ago

At this point the only questions are: Is Mizzery leaving next year or 2013?

Can the Big 12 stick to their guns and withhold the 28 million from A&M and likewise 28 million from MU if they leave next year?

If Mizzery leaves next year, does the Big 12 stay at 9 and everyone try and find a fourth non conference game at this late date ?

lama 6 years ago

Matt, what are the hang ups with BYU?

Phoghorn 6 years ago

As BYU is not in the NFL, this should not be too much of an issue.

Hasn't hurt them in March Madness (pardon the trademark violation) either.

Phoghorn 6 years ago

A few years back there was some controversy about how the term March Madness could be used. I was just making a backhanded reference to that.

texashawk10 6 years ago

  1. Men's basketball doesn't play on Sundays during conference.

  2. Women's basketball plays Sat. and Sun. on weekends so BYU will only be Sat.

  3. Both basketball tournaments run Wed-Sat.

  4. Scheduling a Thur.-Sat. series in baseball was done by MWC schools when they played BYU and the Big 12 would be more than happy to move the tournament title game to Saturday if it meant landing BYU.

  5. Softball can do the same thing as baseball

  6. Volleyball doesn't regularly play on Sunday and has no conference tournament

  7. Soccer plays both Sat. and Sun., the soccer tournament would have to be moved up a day making it go Tue.-Thur.-Sat. instead of Wed.-Fri.-Sun. but the Big 12 would be more than willing to do that if it meant landing BYU.

  8. Gymnastics meets appear to be on Fridays and Saturdays

  9. Cross country meets are Fridays and Saturdays

  10. If any other sport has their conference championship on a Sunday, the Big 12 would more happily move them to Saturday if it meant landing BYU.

texashawk10 6 years ago

The Big 12 will not let baseball, soccer, golf, track, or tennis stand in the way of landing BYU.

jayhawkfirst 6 years ago

From what I've heard, it's not the Big 12 having issues with BYU's no Sunday play. It's the Big 12's network partners that are the hang-up. For the most part it is the basketball tournament. They don't want to forfeit the possibility of making it a Thurs-Sun tournament again in the future.

Hank Cross 6 years ago

I wish MU would stay, but this has gone on far too long. As Oliver Cromwell would say to MU: Go!

When MU goes, I'd like to see the tri of Cincy, LVille, and WVa brought in. Staying at 10 and hoping UT and/or OU don't bolt in a few years is a dangerous proposition. Better to have the remants of a viable conference if there are more defections.

I wish Boise was in the mix. They'll bring more tv ratings than anyone else out there that is available. But, I'd think they'd only be invited if they came with BYU as a travel partner - which doesn't look like it's happening.

Robert Brown 6 years ago

Matt- When I read the MU message boards, I keep reading that MU wants the conference to sign over media rights for 13 years while the Big 12 (read UT) only wants six. This means that in six years, the conference could again implode and is another indication of the instability of the conference. Is that what is preventing MU from staying? It would seem that longer term for the media rights, the more stable. Are KU,K-State, Iowa State and Baylor so weak and so happy the conference is staying together, that they sit idly by and do whatever UT tells them to do. I know it's not quite like that, but I wish, instead of everyone spewing insults at MU, that someone would report whether these are valid issues.

If KU were in MU's position, they would be doing the same thing as MU and the more vocal and critical people here would be cheering them on.

Ron Prichard 6 years ago

Your comment has some validity, but I really don't think it is about security for the MU officials. I think money is the bigger issue. However, even more than that, MU has always had a chip on its shoulder. I know I am not the most objective person, but they have always had a collective belief that they are better than the rest of the world thinks and their greatness is just a stone's throw away.

My firm belief is that after being humiliated by the Big 10 last year, when the SEC showed some interest, they ran as hard and fast as they could. By the time they realized the Big 12 may still have some value, they were already too far gone. Even though the Big 12 has ceded to many of MU's demands (for the good of all of us, by the way) there is no way they would allow themselves to be seen as weak by not going to the SEC.

The fact that MU is allegedly leading this huge charge against Texas is cracking me up. Where was this unwavering conviction when Nebraska originally voted against equal revenue sharing? I seriously think this is a huge case of, "hey, the cool crowd wants us, let's go!"

MU has always believed it was not getting the respect it deserved. Now that the SEC is interested, they feel like the prom queen they have always fancied being. Regardless of where they are a better fit (and there is no question it is the Big XII) there is no way they would turn down the SEC.

Picture Pat in the mirror on SNL and you get MU's collective sentiment: "Gosh darn it, I am good enough. People like me. I am special."

Robert Brown 6 years ago

I think you have your SNL characters mixed up. MU is Stuart Smalley. Anyway, I agree that MU is too far down the road with the SEC to back out. The other problem is that there is a vocal group of fans demanding that MU leave which makes it difficult to be objection. The same think would happen at KU by the way.

At the end of the day, it will be more expensive for MU to go to the SEC. They may get up to maybe $5M more per year by going to the SEC, but, in order to compete with the big guys they are going to have to increase their athletic budget by $30-40M per year.

Ron Prichard 6 years ago

You're right, my bad on the SNL characters. The point is still the same. Good point about making money but spending even more.

142466 6 years ago

I think you're probably right as to why Mizzou wants out. However, if the league can get to 16, by adding geographically acceptable schools with decent FB programs, then it would probably survive as a BCS league, even without UT. There are barely enough of such compatible schools remaining. So the league better sign them up before they get away.

Focus on geography, football strength, and, to a some extent, academics. Don't get hung up on academics; we're dealing here with athletic leagues, not debating societies. For example, Houston is acceptable.

There are enough candidates in Texas and the Mountain States to get to 16, especially if we add Louisville, Cincinnati, and Memphis.

I do not like West Virginia. Too far away. And they're uncouth. I don't think we'd ever be able to "couth them up". They fit in perfectly with Mizzou's new kin, as #16.

Robert Brown 6 years ago

Their football teams is terrible and draws no fans. No one in the state of Tennessee outside of Memphis follows them and in Memphis there are more Tennessee fans than Memphis fans.

MorganR 6 years ago

With all the bad feelings Missouri has engendered recently and in the past, I don't regret Missouri leaving the Big 12. At this point, it seems untenable for them to stay. I urge the KU athletic department not to schedule Missouri; at least for several years.

I hope academics would be given due consideration in selecting a replacement. School. Universities such as Rutgers, Notre Dame, Tulane, Vanderbilt, and Rice, are the types of institutions I hope will be considered. To be clear, this is not a statement of feasibility, Rather, it is merely a desire to consider schools of a high academic caliber.

142466 6 years ago

On the road to 16, Tulane and Rice should be considered. As a 16 member league, we could afford to have one or two of such members.. In fact, Tulane or Rice would provide a good offset to Houston or Boise.

kualuminohio 6 years ago

Why not add Miami of Ohio then...

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

Rutgers is AAU and looking for a new home outside the Big East. UConn says they will be AAU within 12-18 months and looking for a new home outside the Big East. We trademarked the "Big 14" a few years ago. Let's use the name, logo, website and expand to 14 teams. And for a change of pace, let none of the them be Texas teams.

If the conference just replaces Mizzou and Texas AM with TCU and Louisville, you couldn't find anyone outside of Louisville and Fort Worth to consider that a stong and successful move. If we stop at 10, it looks like we are just waiting 6-years until OU and Texas joins the PAC16 with their two ugly sisters in tow. Be BOLD! Adding TCU, Louisville, WVU, Cincy, Rutgers and UConn would be a bold move. It would make us look progessive instead of just reactionary. If we would have added teams after Nebraska and Colorado left would we be here waiting for the second team in two month to announce they are leaving the conference? I don't think so.

kualuminohio 6 years ago

Good riddance and now lets get on with it already...

kualuminohio 6 years ago

Good riddance and now lets get on with it already...

ahpersecoachingexperience 6 years ago

Sdsu oh dear lord!

Roooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad Trip!

Matt Tait 6 years ago

No. Not at all. Just wanted to show the disparity between those "top tier" teams that are in the mix and the alternatives...

William Weissbeck 6 years ago

We should take the package of Louisville, WVA and Cinci. The 3 improve our BB profile over NEB, CU and A&M. Ohio and Kentucky are hot beds of BB, and Cinci will always have decent local recruits. It can't hurt the FB since we've either been the Big 2, Little 6 or some other combination after the formation of the Big 12. The SEC is still only LSU, Alabama, Auburn and Florida. The others play for a decent season. The big headache in the SEC will be when MU demands a minor bowl over the likes of SC, Ole Miss, etc. They'll quickly find out what side of the Confederacy the others think they were on.

tecuani 6 years ago

They are banking on their softball and soccer creds.

142466 6 years ago

They think they'll sign up enough top FB recruits from Illinois who want to play in the SEC, but don't want to attend classes with Jethro and Ellie May.

Who does Mizzou think they are? Seriously, do they really know who they are? Have they ever known who they are? They need to see a shrink.

tecuani 6 years ago

I'm telling you, the SEC has never won a National Championship in softball or volleyball and hasn't won a soccer championship since '98.

Mizzou has a chance!

JayhawkGrad05 6 years ago

I'm with the crowd that would like to go to 16 teams. If it's going to happen, we might as well grab the best of what's left, now. With MU gone, we could add Cincy, Louisville, Rutgers, West Virginia, UConn, ND (except football), Boise State (football only), and somebody else...Houston, South Florida, Tulane, BYU, etc. This would add some good football, good basketball, and some good academics. We could do the 4 pod system to make travel easier on the eastern schools. When the LHN fails, maybe we can get a Big 12 network started up.

blindrabbit 6 years ago

Sports aside, would you rather travel to San Diego or Morgantown? Where do you think you would have more success recruiting?

JayhawkGrad05 6 years ago

Probably would recruit better in Morgantown...who wants to leave San Diego weather for Lawrence weather? lol.

Benjamin Piehler 6 years ago

honestly, does Mizzou add anything to the SEC besides a TV market?

Robert Brown 6 years ago

That's a big thing. They improve overall academics. They have a team that has been Top 20-25 the last four years. They have a good basketball program. They will not be bottom dwellers in the SEC.

When you look at this in its entirety, the SEC's gain is the Big 12's loss because there is NO WAY they can find another team to replace all that MU has to offer.

manginodrh00lz 6 years ago

Of course - they add more teeth in the stands.

NorthStarHawk 6 years ago

Teeth? What teeth? Have you seen that crowds' smiles lately?

djhawk75 6 years ago

No, and I don't think that they'll add much of a TV market either.

Yosemite 6 years ago

If or when the LHN fails, Texas will join the PAC-12 or B1G.

Eric Dawson 6 years ago

Former Texas resident, lived there over 10 years. Texas will never belong to a conference where they can not be the Big Dog. In the end that's what kept Texas home after they tested the waters. Dodds was particularly enamored of the academic opportunities, got an idea of what Texas' market value was and what the B1G and the Pac12 would put up with, and realized that Texas would be giving up much more than the LHN to go north or west.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years ago

I don't want to go to 10. I think adding WVU with no one else is a mistake and the school will feel like an outlier in the conference. If we only add one, I would rather Louisville. That said, both those schools plus Cincinnati should be the call. Plus, by taking all those schools, we may not have to wait 27 months as the football side of things is basically gone in the Big East. If we have to wait, then we can exist as a 9 team league.

The only way I see this conference expanding to 16 is if Notre Dame becomes a player in all sports. Then you can think about programs like South Florida, Tulane, and San Diego St. Otherwise, one cannot be assured the networks would be willing to renegotiate the 2nd Tier deal. They'll it do it for Notre Dame.

jgkojak 6 years ago

My vote would be Louisville, Tulane and USF.

DrJerky 6 years ago

Made the mistake of checking tigerboard.com to see if they have any additional news. Of course, they had no additional insight. In fact, they are referencing your blog Matt. Not surprised a bit. Please forgive my lapse in judgement for thinking there was an unturned stone concerning this issue, least of all on a misery message board. Here's one of the posts I happend accross, it was in response to a quote lifted from your blog:

"Didn't read it Couldn't care less what those mouth breathers have to say.

They can DIAF at this point for all I care.

I hope Lawrence burns again.

Actually, those last 2 statements have always been true, but moreso today."

Real classy bunch. I don't like what their departure means for KC, but they belong in the sewers of the SEC.

Hank Cross 6 years ago

That tiger board is filled with foul-mouthed drunken hillbillies. They are completely unable to string a coherent thought or sentence together. It is hillarious to laugh at their meltdown they're having right now.

manginodrh00lz 6 years ago

I can't figure out why KUAD doesn't listen to us. It would be better if people did what we wanted them to do.

Kent Wells 6 years ago

Are you having a conversation with yourself? Seriously?

Kent Wells 6 years ago

I mean that is kind of weird...

Travis Clementsmith 6 years ago

I don't think the B!G is in a hurry to do anything, and I think they like Missouri less and less each day.

LJD230 6 years ago

The only remaining school in the 12-3 Conference with any acadeic clout is Texas. If the conference is to expand, at least go for some schools that require kids to put a noun and verb together prior to graduation.

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

Kansas and Iowa State are AAU, along with Texas.

Yosemite 6 years ago

Maybe you should learn how to spell academic.

lothario64118 6 years ago

"...Tulane, South Florida and even San Diego State."

Why print garbage like this? Yeah, I'm sure Tulane is a real heavy hitter in football and basketball. None of those schools makes sense and is acceptable.

West Virginia it is.

Hank Cross 6 years ago

How long would it have taken Deaton to stand up and say "Adios"? MU isn't going to get any more political cover at this point discussing a conference cable channel. Maybe the moonshine wore off and they're realizing that joining the SEC east is flat out stupid.

tychi_jayhawk 6 years ago

KC businesses are the real losers here. I feel truly sorry for the lack of dollars that won't be spent on KU v MU games.

That said, let's escalate this BCS arms race. The BIG 12(-4+1) needs to BE 12 again, if not 16. Stability is in numbers. The BIG East had it right only they backed the wrong sport.

And, parenthetically, I hope Mizzery becomes the whipping boy of the SEC.

tychi_jayhawk 6 years ago

KC businesses are the real losers here. I feel truly sorry for the lack of dollars that won't be spent on KU v MU games.

That said, let's escalate this BCS arms race. The BIG 12(-4+1) needs to BE 12 again, if not 16. Stability is in numbers. The BIG East had it right only they backed the wrong sport.

And, parenthetically, I hope Mizzery becomes the whipping boy of the SEC.

Kent Wells 6 years ago

Not a lot of analysis in the latest post... "Additionally, a strong desire for the University of Missouri to maintain its Big 12 affiliation was expressed."

Who said this?????????

Travis Clementsmith 6 years ago

You'll see that until Missouri actually says they are leaving. The conference cannot look like they are pushing them out or they lose standing in demanding exit fees.

Hank Cross 6 years ago

Probably misery once someone told them how far it was to Athens, Gainsville, etc. Their broken-down Cameros will never make it.

Kent Wells 6 years ago

Nice... And a real Camaro??? No way, mopery fans are big on the TransCamaros, made famous by:

http://www.drbukk.com/gmhom/park.html

And that might as well be Missourah instead of Mississippi!

Pbbut 6 years ago

It's especially hard when you're pulling the trailer.

jhawk4life1976 6 years ago

From what I heard from people that went to the game down in Tampa in 2008 USF fans could replace Misery's as the biggest pr*cks in the conference.

texashawk10 6 years ago

WVU is a school (along with Texas Tech) that frequently pops up when discussions of the worst fans in the country come up. KU fans for the most part are skewered into pegging MU as horrible fans (and yes they have their fair share of idiots like any school), but if I'm not wearing KU colors and meet an MU fan, I've rarely had an issue with them. Tech and Aggie fans to me are the two most annoying fanbases out there. Tech fans for the most part are completely oblivious about football and Aggie fans are like a cult and think their leaders do no wrong.

Pbbut 6 years ago

I'm gonna throw this out again...any consideration for Rutgers? If we're talking WV, why not another school in the Eastern Time Zone? A road trip to New York City or getting a rental at the Pittsburgh airport and driving to Morgantown, you choose. Rutgers is an AAU member and we've already lost two of those with a third possible if Missouri decides to quit being a drama queen and says "Yes, to the dress!"
If Missouri leaves and the Big 12 conference actually wants 12 members, I vote Rutgers, West Virginia and South Florida, Back that up with Louisville and Cincinnati. Everything goes on hold if ND starts to waver, but not too long.

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

Whenever the ship is sinking and there is a lifeboat available, it's best not to wait for one with more comfortable chairs.

I vote Rutgers, WVU, UConn, Louisville and Cincy in that order. Rutgers is AAU. UConn says they will be soon. Big14 sounds good.

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

You are right. My vote doesn't matter. They may want to stay in the 'New' Big East with Central Florida, Houston, SMU, Memphis, East Carolina, Temple, etc.

What happens if the B1G doesn't call Rutgers? Or, the ACC doesn't select UConn?

Why do you think that they want to stay in the Big East?

LogicMan 6 years ago

"In fact, they are referencing your blog Matt."

If there ever was a definitive study of this mess, I would guess that Matt's blog and these comments have been quite influential. Matt and KU-type commenters are mostly objective and thoughtful. Also not afraid to throw out and kick around ideas. Except for some of the above, it's all done with good intentions and without undue negative criticism.

So BYU. WVU, and Louisville, as we developed here, are the leading candidates, with or without MU. Notre Dame du Lac is the dark horse. And maybe Cincinnati.

And going back to 12, with OU and UT in the southern division, makes the most sense for the "Big 12". But maybe go to 14 or 16.

Kyle Sybesma 6 years ago

Notre Dame! Notre Dame! Notre Dame! The Big East is getting weaker if we pluck W Virginia and Louisville and UConn and Rutgers go to the ACC. Leverage is in the hands of the Big 12. The ACC is the only other conference that will take ND's TV contract. If the ACC takes UConn and Rutgers they will be at 16. We need to put the pressure on ND to come WITH football. Notre Dame can't be as appealing to NBC with their recent failures on the field so what will their TV contract look like in the future. They need a place for their non revenue sports and I can't imagine they'd be willing to put in a "mid major" conference or let the Big East become a "mid major" conference. They can't say yes or no if we don't ask. The Big 10 has been rejected for years. Why don't we at least try?

Pitthawk34 6 years ago

West virginia would definately be a upgrade compared to Missouri. It will be interesting what legal measues could be taken to get out of the 27 month wait.

142466 6 years ago

Agreed. If WVU enters alone without bringing Loui and Cinci, it would be especially stupid. WVU would be so distant and incompatible in so many ways with the other member schools that the marriage wouldn't last.

If Mizzou were to stay in the B12, then those midwestern schools just east of St. Louis could make sense, but not WVU (too eastern and alien).

I prefer inviting BYU, Boise, and the strongest Texas school(s). More opportunity for growth. More culturally similar to the southern plains States. And they'll be loyal, because they'll all be upgrading. All the press reports, however, seem to be pointing us eastward. If that happens, then the league ought to look to N.D (probably futile, but let the record indicate that we offered), then westward, and to Texas to get to 16 while we still have that opportunity. Then the whole enterprise would be less dependent on OU and UT. It could have a long-term BCS future.

If BYU sees that we're going to 16, I think they'll reconsider. What other attractive choice would they have? Someday, the PAC? Maybe.

FLJHK 6 years ago

That is exactly the correct list, assuming N.D. doesn't want to play. I'd like to get them all and make it the Big 14.

bballdiehard 6 years ago

While in general, I find your posts completely objectionable, I couldn't agree more with this post.

WVU is the last thing I want in this conference. They're more backwoods than Missouri, they're completely deparated from the conference, in no way do they make any sense to me...

Maybe, and that's a HUGE maybe, if we were to expand to 14 or 16 teams, dependent on who the other teams were, they coule potentially make sense. But as a first choice to replace Mizzou?!?!?!?!? That just makes me feal dead inside. Mizzou was a naturally close, intense rival, inbredded with over a century of history. WVU is some far off hick redneck school that I've never given an F about. The only moderately exciting thing about them is that Huggy Bear coaches there, and really, I could give a $H!T about playing him again.

blindrabbit 6 years ago

You West Virginia supporters do yourself and the rest of us a favor by doing the following:

Watch movie Deliverance a couple of times! Read up on the negative aspects of families interbreeding Practice a hillbilly dialect Learn to liike Mountain Dew Detune your violin and pick-up a banjo Watch 6 episodes of Jerry Springer Go to ASPCA and get a hound dog Buy a portrait of Bob Huggins Switch your heat source from gas, electricity to coal

Now your ready for West Virginia; I'm not!

texashawk10 6 years ago

Other than Huggy Bear, everything else pretty much applies to Missouri, but WVU fans do tend to make MU fans look sophisticated.

Spencer Goff 6 years ago

In what way is any of this a downgrade from Missouri?

blindrabbit 6 years ago

Mangino: After watching your attached, is there any wonder why West Virginia has not been accepted by the ACC, SEC, Big10 and is even "not wanted" by it's own conference, The BigEast. And this is what the love interest is all about by posters who want to add this fiasco to the Big12.

funkitect 6 years ago

Jesus H Christ... MU is looking out for MU, so the BIG 12 better f'ing be looking out for the BIG 12. Give MU the boot already! this is enough...

blindrabbit 6 years ago

Don't you think that the Drama Queens with their inferiority complex over at Missouri are getting cold feet about the purported move to the SEC. Rejected by the Big10, shuttled to the Eastern Division of the SEC where nobody will "love" them. Causing the few traveling fans that they have to long onerous trips, cutting off their recruiting bases (especially Texas), severing long term relationships. Being added to a conference where coaching and academic shenanigans are rampant; is Mizzou ready to up their ante into that world?

Makes you wonder what the administration and athletic department is thinking about; is it about money or a a cultural issue of wanting to return to their old "Southern Roots". Also cutting off serious sports dollars and interest in the Kansas City market. Also, the strange love affair that many posters have about West Virginia being a equal or better replacement for Missouri has got to mess with their heads.

texashawk10 6 years ago

The problem with Auburn going to the east is that Tennessee and Alabama become no's for Missouri getting in and I've read those aren't the only two schools that would stand in way of Missouri joining if they were in the West. Putting them in the east and making Arkansas their designated rival works just fine. Vandy and Kentucky are the second and third closest schools to Missouri and the average distance to the eastern schools is only about 100 miles more than to the western schools.

Jackalope7 6 years ago

This whole situation makes me so upset. Can't believe Mizzou would throw away one of the Top 5 Rivalries in all of college sports over money. Don't get me wrong, I work with Mizzou fans and I hear them complain about how they don't get to watch Mizzou football cause its never on the local broadcast. Mizzou fans say if they wanna watch their games, they gotta pay for it on PPV. So, I understand that part. But I think a new TV deal is coming. Mizzou just had to be patient. But, they'd rather go to the SEC, where they'll get their a**** handed to them every Saturday. They'll never win the SEC...ever. I guess Mizzou would rather have a room full of money instead of a room full of trophies. But hey, they did beat Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl 4 years ago. Which is a big win...cause Arkansas is always in the running to win the SEC. (Sarcasm on the last part)

Ludwig Supraphonic 6 years ago

MU knows how to be a team player. What conference wouldn't want an underachiever with ruthless self-interest as their guiding principle. Deaton " There are some issues that have to be adressed on behalf of the University of Missouri and that's what we're doing, looking out for the University of Missouri." Please don't let us get in your way.

jep 6 years ago

The drama queens need to move on; we're sick of them.

AzNHawk 6 years ago

Wow! I briefly kept up with the realignment stuff, but for a refresher didn’t MU want to keep the big 12 together at first then now they want to bolt to the SEC? if that is the short summary in lamens terms then give them some pennies. – for being TWO FACED and WORTHLESS.

Brian Skelly 6 years ago

Mizzou is as good as gone. We need to get the idea of adding 3 teams (im for going to 16, but I realize no one who's important with the conference is thinking that way) and start the ball rolling on it.

Im not in KC, so I dont have the angst about this move that a lot of folks there are having, justifiably I might add. I cant see how the Mizzou folks dont think KC loses out here. Denial aint a river in Egypt. It's a shame, but KC will fall off the map with Big 12 sports once this happens. It just will. KU will play its annual hoops game there im guessing, but cant see much beyond that.

My guess is KC will still get some love in reference to early round games for the NCAA's, but doesnt that rotate somewhat as well? Its certainly not going to be annually, and probably not even every other year.

Whatever. Sorry to see it come to this, but at this point, Mizzou cant come back.

Kyle Sybesma 6 years ago

If the Big 12 adds W Virginia, Louisville and maybe Cincy or Notre Dame I think KC can still be an option for the Big 12 tournament. I could see KU and K-State playing at Arrowhead. I'm not sure of the future of KSU and ISU games in KC.

ja3hawk 6 years ago

Honestly, after this, I see the Kansas side of the state-line continue to get stronger and stronger. I like downtown KCMO but it hurts our metro as a whole, the way we are divided.

Kyle Sybesma 6 years ago

Thank you Matt for finding some reports about Notre Dame. If the Big 12 wants to be a viable conference for years to come we can't continue to add schools like AF, Boise State, Tulane, SMU or Houston.

Let's get to 12 football schools with W Virginia, Louisville and Cincy or South Florida. Add Notre Dame in basketball and 2nd tier sports to make 13. This is where it gets tough. Do we add a 2nd non football school like Marquette to make 14 or stay with 13 with the hopes of expanding to 16 and have Notre Dame add football someday? If we added a Marquette they would always make expansion talks difficult because they would always make an odd number. IF Notre Dame adds football.

Kyle Sybesma 6 years ago

When would W Virginia join? Would we be at 9 for the next 2 years if they have to wait the 27 months?

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

Depends. Throw more cash at the Big East and the 27 months could be shorten.

sportjunky 6 years ago

I hate to see Mizzou go, I really do. It's a good school and a great rivalry. People will poke fun and disagree with that, but the reality: it's a good school and the rivalry is amazing, and the geography makes perfect sense (re: placement in the Big 12).

However, I'm tired of their childish "pay attention to me" crap. Make a decision and get on with it. At this point, if they go then they go and life goes on.

jgkojak 6 years ago

They won't wait 27 months - if the Big East adds Boise, Air Force, UCF, etc to get to 12 without WVU then they'll let WVU go w/ a hefty exit fee - right now its 5 million - I'm guessing they'll negotiate a higher exit fee and knock off 18 months of the 27.

WVU is a nice football/basketball get, and I'm sure Huggie never dreamed he'd be playing at Manhattan again (ha!)

But... we really need two more schools... my vote is Louisville and Tulane.

Eric Harrison 6 years ago

Matt, I know Texas wants to stay at 10 .. .but does anyone else? It seems like WVU would be on an island and any real growth to 16 would make WVU prime for the picking, no?
Why isn't picking up Louisville and Cincy a more legitimate option for those on the inside? I would think it would make WVU feel less isolated and would also bring in more $$$ with the conference championship (and to add the 50th and 33rd biggest TV markets)?

Adding 1 school to get back to 10 seems very short sighted and leaves the Big12 as the weakest remaining major conference (the upcoming BEast-CUSA-MWC merger is too awkward to be called a major conference).

142466 6 years ago

Agreed. Maybe the league, out of public view, is working on Loui & Cinci. Hope so.

I'm pretty sure all current league members, including UT, fully realize that to assure a long life, the Big12 needs to become 12, soon. Then 14, then 16. It's obvious.

So if we're not now seeking, openly or privately, #11 and #12, why not? I suspect that the answer is the Texas Longhorns. They probably make more money over the next 6 years with just 10 members. They plan to depart 6 years hence and therefore don't care about the Big 12 long-term.

Spencer Goff 6 years ago

OU reportedly wants to stay at 10. Go figure...

What amazes me is their logic is based on "not needing to win another game to get into that title game."

But here is what kills me, and follow the logic:

  1. OU is worried about the Big 12 title game as a stopping point to a title run.
  2. Yet we have had the Big 12 title game in every other season to date.
  3. Which team has had the MOST appearances in the national title game? You guessed it, OU with four.

So this "Big 12 title game blocks our national title path" is a load of garbage. Losing at home to Texas Tech blocks your title path. So stop screwing around and get back to 12.

Jayhawk1116 6 years ago

Deaton: "Our head has to outweigh our heart... because the heart won't lead to where the university needs to be going."

We know where Mizzou's head has always been, and they've never had the heart...

ja3hawk 6 years ago

What I don't understand is why they think they NEED to be in the SEC. What exactly are they after? Pretty much every argument to move to the SEC has been negated or debunked. Sill Mizzery.

Eric Dawson 6 years ago

mOO is running away. They have never been happy with the Texas dominance (who has?), but they've never cited that as a major reason before this year.

You'll recall last year it was all about how mOO and the B1G was a better fit than mOO and the B12. This year, since the B1G has made it clear to any and all askers that they are happy at 12, mOO dropped the academics argument and jumped at the chance to leave Texas and the rest behind to go to the SEC with fellow pussycat A&M. They cited conference instability, but now that argument has been negated, so they fall back on making more $$$ in the SEC.

But independent analysts have shot that down as well, because the $$ they are citing aren't there, the SEC is locked up for years in its new contracts, and when the Big 12 reworks its contract, any difference is almost certain to disappear.

Now it all comes down to inertia and fear. Anyone objectively analyzing the situation without B&G glasses would come to the conclusion that what is best for mOO (and western Missouri's economy) is to stay Big 12. But mOO is so far gone that all the fans that have faith that the mOO leadership will make the right decision for mOO would hold a Columbia lynching party if they did.

Fear of Texas and fear of alum and fan support have driven mOO over the cliff. And the flagship school of the state that is practically homophonic with misery (Webster: a state of suffering and want that is the result of poverty or affliction -- yeah, that's Missouri) makes yet another in its series of storied mistakes ("Paige" Arena?; Self or Snyder? Self or Snyder? Self or -- Snyder! >EHHHHH!<).

At least we won't have to deal with their inadequacy driven wailings anymore.

fancy80 6 years ago

Yes, I laughed when I read that quote...my initial thought was that their heart needs to lead the university to a Dental Clinic...

Eric Harrison 6 years ago

I understand that TV money wouldn't be renegotiated with additional members so the money is "two more mouths to feed", but wouldn't the conference championship, increased basketball $ (NCAA tourney bids, ESPN games, etc.) and decreased travel (for the "north" teams - Louisville and Cincinnati are closer/same distance to Manhattan than Austin or Lubbock is (and closer to Lawrence & Ames)

Maracas 6 years ago

Trading one set of hillbillies for another? sigh

tychi_jayhawk 6 years ago

Freestate Hillbillies... Big difference there.

Eric Dawson 6 years ago

I'll give you a heckuva loud "Amen!" tychi_j!

Having spent years 14-20 growing up in western Maryland just across the Potomac from WV, and later becoming all too familiar with the residents of Missouri through work and college --

If I have to make a choice between rednecks, my personal experience leads me to prefer the ridge-running stump-jumpers that kept the Stars & Stripes flying and want to be with us over the insecure methhead slavers and their delusions of adequacy.

Eric Harrison 6 years ago

They are one and the same except that WVU 'city fans' come from New Jersey, Baltimore/DC, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia (MUCH more blue collar and rough & tumble) rather than KC, StL and Chicago. But WVU has more passionate fans (that travel more), a better hoops program, a better fball program, a foot into the Pittsburgh and DC. They aren't southern, just rural in a non-Kansas farm kind of way (which is very similar to a city-kid from the southwest such as myself).

Living in DC, I'll take WVU with all of its burning couches every year. Although I HATE to lose the most under-rated rivalry in all of college sports (I say underrated bc it doesn't have any national prominence)

Brian Skelly 6 years ago

I agree that staying at 10 is a mistake. But part of me thinks this is simply "conference realignment inaction". By taking the most viable Big East football program, your already weakening it. My guess is there will be more steps to go to 12 at some point, sooner rather than later. With WVU on board, it seems it would be much simpler to add anyone else from there who'd be even remotely interested.

The Notre Dame stuff is pie in the sky... but there is some logic to it. No other conference would tolerate its independence in football -- not that we should, but by conference structure, we COULD do that. Especially if we went to 16 teams.

Hell, add Notre Dame at 11 (or so it would appear now), and let them have a lot of say on who joins us. Wouldnt ND, WV, Cincy, Louisville be viable as a Big 16 NE division?

Since im rambling (arent we all?)... here goes.

If you had 15 teams (and an Independent in football ND), split the 15 into 3 divisions of 5.

You play everyone in your division every year (4 games). Play the team with the same "place" as you the previous year in the other two divisions (2). Play 2 other conference games against opponents in other divisions (one vs. 'rival'? or just against teams you havent played in awhile?).

Say if ND gets its 'independence' (and its $$ and ND Network) it has to play 3 games against Big 16 teams each year in FB. That still would allow it to play many of its traditional games and rivals without throwing off their schedule to much (USC, service academies, usual Big 10 suspects, etc.)

Hoops could be either 16 games (one against each team). Or if you do the 4 divisions format, do home-n-homes vs. your division (6 games), and play everyone else once (12) for 18 games.

I still dont think ND would ever join, but if the walls are closing in on their independence -- and all this realignment tells me that it is, even if to just some degree -- joining the conference that would likely give them the most autonomy makes sense.

Of course, if Big East football simply implodes, maybe they just stay there with all the other hoops teams. Thats probably more likely, but who knows.

Did I just type all that garbage?

Kyle Sybesma 6 years ago

I like the idea of forcing ND to play 3 games in the Big 12/16. I think we should tell them that we want all sports or none. A bluff of course but it should be our first deal and negotiate from there. At least make them say no to football.

I'm all for discussions that include Notre Dame.

William Weissbeck 6 years ago

I agree we cannot stop at 10. That's just like putting 10 people into an 8-man life boat - it's going to sink sooner or later. The NCAA isn't going to stop the conferences from negotiating their own contracts for the benefit of their own members. So it's a race to the bank and securing TV markets. We need Cinci and Louisville and disband the rest of the Big East. That gets us to 12. Then the hard work begins. There really are schools like Northern Iowa and Illinois that we shouldn't diss. There is Rice, SMU and Houston. Colorado State? New Mexico and New Mexico State? The ACC isn't going to wait. We don't want to be in a situation where the SEC and Big Ten are forcing our hand.

Benjamin Piehler 6 years ago

I want to expand past 10 also.

WVU's football and basketball programs have performed better than missouri's... and we've got the added bonus of watching Mizzou get creamed for years... not too shabby.

Maracas 6 years ago

How does WVU get out of the 27-month BE penalty that also binds Syracuse and Pittsburgh to become the tenth member right away?

Eric Dawson 6 years ago

The Big 12 also extends invitations to Louisville and Cincinnati, pushing UConn and Rutgers to step up their business cases to the ACC to go to 16 ASAP (maybe those two make "phase-in" allowances on sharing conference income just so they can get their golden tickets*). If that happens, BEast as a BCS conference is dead, and the best the BEast can expect to do is negotiate earlier outs with higher fees so they can use the money to keep their hoops and Olympic sports going.

Last week's unranked UL v. Rutgers game garnered twice the NYC media market rating of unranked Syracuse v. then #11 WVU. http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/10/rutgers-louisville_tv_rating_i.html That has* to be an eye opener for the ACC, who went for Syracuse in part because of its supposed NYC market appeal. And if that is enough to make the ACC look to add Rutgers, they will then need to add #16 -- "Hello, UConn? John Swofford calling..."

Kyle Sybesma 6 years ago

If we go after W Virginia we may as well get Louisville and Cincy at the same time because of the 27 month waiting period. The Big East may raise the $5 million exit fee after this year too making it more difficult down the road.

Screw Texas, let's get to 12 teams. And keep and open line of communication with Notre Dame.

Hank Cross 6 years ago

Boise is better FB than anyone else available. Which game do you think could sell for bigger tv ad dollars: OU v. Boise or OU v. LVille, Cincy, Houston, etc?

Hank Cross 6 years ago

We've already got Okie State and TT, so academics aren't an issue for the B12. And the only thing that matters in realignment is FB.

manginodrh00lz 6 years ago

Light years I tell you...light years. OKState = T Boone (Oil and Gas oracle). Boise = Jan Packwood (Idaho Power Company). Keeping Idaho bright at night.

Hank Cross 6 years ago

Assuming WVa is a done deal, staying at 10 is a real danger. WVa seems like a target for a SEC pick off sometime in the future if the SEC can't raid the ACC. I'd prefer BYU and Boise over LVille and Cincy, but it may be necessary to bring those two in to keep regional rivals for WVa. LVille and Cincy are good for BB, but they don't bring as much to the table FB-wise as BYU and Boise.

tecuani 6 years ago

Cincy Bowl Games:

2009 Orange Bowl 2010 Sugar Bowl

That puts them nearer to Boise State and above BYU in my opinion.

Louisville has an Orange Bowl appearance in 2007 (2006 season)

The Mormons haven't been to a BCS bowl ever I think.

jgkojak 6 years ago

What has been missed here is perhaps the best thing to happen for KU (and especially for Baylor and Iowa State) is for the Big East to add 7-8 more teams in football, thus expanding the # of AQ schools from 67 or so (so you're only leaving out 3 if you got to 16x4) to 77-80 - meaning the # of pissed of Congressmen is increased and there is likely a bi-partisan interest in looking into anti-trust and other implications of 4 conferences locking out everyone else from access to post-season $$$.

Because watch the BCS try to strip the Big East of its AQ without a court battle- ain't happening and the BCS people know it- so they'll let the Big East keep its status no matter how many non-AQ type schools join.

Pbbut 6 years ago

Matt-In your last update you mentioned "WVU's move could do permanent damage to the league. If UConn and Rutgers follow Syracuse and Pitt to the ACC — as has been rumored for some time".
Of course we know that there is nothing in set in stone in any of this, but my understanding is that the ACC already told Rutgers and UConn "No" once. Is there any reason why the ACC would be coy about all this after they already accepted Pitt and Syracuse?

Kyle Sybesma 6 years ago

I would assume they've said no to leave at least one spot open to Notre Dame.

Eric Dawson 6 years ago

WHB 810AM is reporting there is a press conference scheduled for tomorrow to announce WVU as the newest member of the Big 12.

So, if conference stability (and not fear of Texas) is really what is behind mOO leaving, do they stay now? It seems that the Big 12 is just getting stronger, and it would seem that this announcement is timed to point that out to mOO.

It would probably be better for the B12 if mOO stayed, but I must confess that I have already accepted mOO leaving, and don't want them back. I'd be glad to be rid of them.

Hank Cross 6 years ago

The WVa papers are reporting that this is a done deal. http://www.dailymail.com/Sports/WVUSports/201110250055

Announce WVa's admittance right on top of Mizery's departure. Although Mizery was right in their claims against UT, this clown show has gone on long enough.

Eric Dawson 6 years ago

Beat me to it, oxcaljayhawk!

I'm so glad that the B12 decided not to wait on mOO anymore.

Now we need to go get potential #12 (if mOO stays), and then wait for mOO before going any further.

Eric Dawson 6 years ago

Link to Charleston Gazette article: WVU joining Big 12 regardless of Missouri's decision Press conference Wednesday as Mountaineers bolt from Big East http://wvgazette.com/News/201110250060

Robert Brown 6 years ago

I wonder if there is any consideration of merging the remaining 9 big 12 teams with the remaining six football playing members for the Big East.

-15 team conference -Get new East Coast markets -Penetrate Florida -Add Rutgers, an AAU school and UConn which has strong academics. -Basketball strengthens with UCONN, Louisville, and CIncinnati -Room for ND, just in case to get to 16.

From a Division Standpoint- Form 3 five team PODS moving to 4 four team POD if we get to 16.

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

I agree. If we are taking all of the Big East Schools, we should get their AQ and possible at-large BCS spots and TV money too.

Kyle Sybesma 6 years ago

I agree as well. This would put the Big 12 in a position to force Notre Dame to bring football to the Big 12.

Not into the POD system but an East and West division.

East: Rutgers, UConn, W Virginia, Cincinatti, South Florida, Louisville, Iowa State, Notre Dame.

West:Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State.

Travel is only difficult on Iowa State. But they should feel lucky they're still involved.

joshar 6 years ago

Finally the drama queens are leaving. Now its time for the Big 12 to expand get back to 12 or more. The last dead weight is finally gone. Now its to make a move and destroy what is left of the Big East, possibly pick up Notre Dame's other sports.

Ben Kliewer 6 years ago

The demon monkeys that live in manginorh00lz's hair. They tell manginorh00lz all kinds of things. Like Mizzou is actually trying to get into the B1G, not the SEC, and that Kansas won't get into the B1G (when the Big 12 dissolves, of course) because we're going to "burn our bridges" with Mizzou by not keeping the Border War alive. Of course, from manginorh00lz's comments the assumption is that Mizzou will be the ruling school of the B1G at that time.

Ben Kliewer 6 years ago

Direct Quote: "They are still trying to force the B1G. I just hope that KU hasn't burned all their bridges with MU yet, as MU might be KU's ticket into the B1G."

Face...

Ben Kliewer 6 years ago

Well that just confirms that you're smoking crack. PUT THE PIPE DOWN!

Ben Kliewer 6 years ago

Now you're just mixing mythologies.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years ago

I also read the ACC has stated that it is not interested in partial participants as it goes against their structure. So, unless ND is willing to play football in the ACC, they're not going there.

Kyle Sybesma 6 years ago

Copy that link from ESPN to a post so every on can read it.

Ben Kliewer 6 years ago

Granted, there's some hopeful language in the article, but there's still a long way to go by way of ERS, all-in all-sports and ND's desire to remain a football indie. I wouldn't be so confident as to say they "will be."

Side note: Anybody notice who UNC's AD is?

ejlumus 6 years ago

Still have a "gut" feel that ND &AR to Big 12

statesupporter 6 years ago

Ok, tough guy, you are all over this. So if ND is going ACC, that opens up one spot for Uconn or Rutgers. Where do they go? Uconn to ACC, Rutgers to Big 10? And, if Rutgers to Big 10 happens, who is the 14th member? As things stand now, we should be trying to swallow all of the BE. If the Big 10, Big 12, ACC go to 16, what does the Pac 12 do? This thing is far from over if Notre Dame goes ACC. Notre Dame anywhere but the ACC creates more stability for the Big 12. However, Notre Dame to the ACC might punch the Jayhawk's ticket to the Big 10 when the Pac 12 comes calling for the south again. If this ND to ACC is so clear, wouldn't Mizzou see the opportunity and stick it out in the Big 12? Or, have they been told by the Big 10 that they would chose an AAU school with "like midwestern values"?

statesupporter 6 years ago

Is it possible the Big 10 has told MU that if it comes that far in expansion they would prefer KU and Notre Dame to get to 14? I would think geographically and traditionally Nebraska would want KU over MU. I am biased, but I would think every state school from Michigan, Indiana, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Nebraska, Iowa and Ohio would rather have Kansas than Missouri. We just fit in better.

I don't think this is too early to discuss. If we strategically think it is better to be in the Big 10, shouldn't we be trying to get our foot in the door? I see too much information on the short run and not enough long run analysis. We are clearly safe, but our future could be with the cornhuskers and not the sooners. Don't you think our social traditions and values are more in line with the huskers than the sooners, longhorns and mountaineers? Yes, this is all about football, but the Big 10 has enough of that. They might want bigger markets, but we are a national brand in basketball that would help their network in the winter and spring. I am just bringing up the point that where these teams fall in the short run could lead to interesting future decisions, especially if Notre Dame goes to the ACC.

middleoftheroader 6 years ago

strike up the banjo... we traded a black and gold banjo for a blue and gold one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyw452...

Micah Mandy Haase 6 years ago

Matt, I am seriously impressed by a couple of things. First off you are always the first or a close second in reporting all this. Secondly, you take time to read all the comments from us and even comment on some.

Kudos and I appreciate all you have done and do for us Jayhawk fans!

FLJHK 6 years ago

There goes the neighborhood.

We lose four (at the time) AAU schools, and replace them with two lesser schools, by vitually any objective measure.

Given the circumstances, TCU was a decent, if non-inspiring choice, but West Virginia as a stand-alone choice makes zero sense to me. They have already been rejected by the SEC, and the ACC had no interest whatsoever. They are completely isolated from the rest of the conference geographically, and they are culturally a complete misfit with the rest of the Big 12.

I visited Morgantown a couple of decades ago and actually liked the town - pretty country, nice downtown area as I recall. I know W. Va. fans are a proud and passionate bunch, and they are a decent sports school, but they don't belong in the Big 12.

This addition only dilutes whatever brand the Big 12 has historically put forward.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years ago

I'm confused, what program were you advocating in trying to get the conference membership back up? Is there some close proximity, AAU, good athletics, nice TV market team we are just overlooking?

FLJHK 6 years ago

I advocate a minimum 14-team conference. The top 5 choices, in no particular order are: BYU, AFA, Rice Tulane and Louisville.

The first four are academically solid to outstanding; all but BYU are better geogrphic fits, and all better fit the Big 12 culture. Obviously you don't take Tulane and Rice due to their current athletics, but we should be looking at the future, not the past. Give Tulane and Rice a few years of Big 12 revenue and their athletics will improve exponentially.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years ago

Well, AFA has already stated they are not prepared for Big XII level competition week in/week out. There seem to be other hang ups about BYU. I could see Tulane or Rice in an expanded conference, but not both, and Rice probably loses out because they are in Texas. Its an athletics conference, not an academic one, and none of those schools outside of Louisville in basketball really move the national needle.

FLJHK 6 years ago

Conferences are much more than athletics. They are essentially cultural entities that share certain common bonds. Athletics and academics are part of what binds them.

I'm aware of the issues with both AFA and BYU, and they may not be available, but nothing seems certain these days.

Athletically, particularly in football, the Big 12 does not NEED to improve. It is clearly the second best football conference no matter who is added, but there's no way it topples the SEC. That being said, I admit that part of my desire for Louisville is to strengthen conference hoops.

Hank Cross 6 years ago

FB-wise WVa and TCU are better than MU and CU. And make no mistake, realigment is only about FB.

manginodrh00lz 6 years ago

How many times have we said this. Realignments are not about football.

142466 6 years ago

Agreed. My hunch is that the B12 is certain that they can quickly get Loui, in the unlikely event that Mizzou stays, or Loui and Cincy both if Mizzou departs. That gets us back to 12. Getting to 12 that way mitigates the geographical gap. It would be 9 & 3, instead of 9 &1.

That better be what the league has planned by adding WVU.

Then go to 14 and then to 16 by adding some of the Texas and Rocky Mountain schools frequently mentioned by the posters to this board. BYU and Boise are my favorites.

I don't have enough time to investigate Boise's academic credentials. Are there any Boise advocates among the posters who can present a case for Boise's academic standing? Not just using hearsay and stereotypes.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years ago

If the conference is serious about admitting ND as a non football member, it would still have to keep the regular members even, wouldn't it? If so, how do you make an unbalanced basketball schedule? I know that technically, there are no divisions in basketball, but they used that format for scheduling purposes. With 11 or 13 basketball members, they would have to figure out some other formula.

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

14 football teams - 2 Seven-Team Division, add Notre Dame for the 15th team split into a 3 Five-Team regional Pods. Play your Pod twice on a home/away for 8 games, play each of the other Pod teams once for 10 games for grand total of 18 games.

12 Football teams - 2 Six-Team Division add Notre Dame and Marquette, move Kansas and KSU to the South. Home/Away with your divisional teams (12) and one game with the other division (7) for 19 games

Ron Prichard 6 years ago

I'm a little confused, lonestar. You have 18 and 19 games, respectively, for football? There are only 12 in a season.

Ron Prichard 6 years ago

Oops...I just re-read the comment above yours and noticed it was a reply for basketball based on the number of football teams. Makes much more sense that way.

getserious 6 years ago

Adding West Va, Cincinnati and Louisville makes so much sense it won't get done. All 3 are decent football schools and great basketball schools. Bringing all 3 on board gives them 2 somewhat local schools to keep rivalries going with and travel costs down. And after all, we are the Big 12 and need 12 teams.
Here's the sticky part, How do you divide the Big 12. Logically you would take the 3 new school, add KU, Kstate and Iowa st in the North Division. But that means the big bad football powers, OK ST, OU, Texas, Texas Tech and now TCU(sorry Baylor) would all be in the same division. Betting they wouldn't go for that. Screw Mizzou.

Spencer Goff 6 years ago

Why on earth, in a football landscape, would we be dumb enough to admit ND as a non-football school? Why is this even being debated? Are we short on rowing teams?

Most common dumb reply, "They will join the Big 12 in full once NBC finally pulls the plug on their TV contract."

Wrong, it will take decades for NBC to wake up and smell the dook that is Saturday football Notre Dame style. Those massive 1.8 ratings seem to be ignored on their part. Furthermore, should NBC ever wake up, Notre Dame would be headed straight to the B1G. They would use the Big 12 conference as a hiding point for their other crap sports just like they did with the Big East. How did that work out for the Big (L)East?

The only teams the Big 12 conference should be looking at adding are those teams that are fully committed in all sports. Give up your football or stay the hell out. Notre Dame can stay the f&%k independent for all I care.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years ago

Personally, I think its time to forget about regionality in divisions. I think you split up the Texas schools so you have two in each divisions. Split OU and UT but they can keep a permanent crossover. You could do this with other schools like KU and KSU if you like. This gives each school about the same access to Texas outside of the schools that are already there.

Texas Baylor Kansas Iowa St Cincinnati West Virginia

Texas Tech TCU Oklahoma Oklahoma St Kansas St Louisville

Also, as long as we're throwing out regionality, I would make the argument there is more benefit to taking South Florida over Cincinnati.

getserious 6 years ago

The problem with that is that you are thinking of only football. When baseball, softball, tennis, swimming..etc teams travel, they like to knock two or three school out on a travel weekend. Would get pretty expensive for those teams that don't generate any money for the Universities.

Travis Clementsmith 6 years ago

I don't think there is any rule that says you have to keep the same divisions for every sport, is there. I can appreciate the non revenue sports, but this is mostly about football. Besides, there's really nothing preventing these teams from still scheduling those trips, it just doesn't happen as frequently.

Vernon Riggs 6 years ago

I like it with one small change, move Texas Tech into the same division with Texas. (Permanent Rival)

Football Texas (OU) Texas Tech (OSU) Kansas (KSU) Iowa State (Louisville) West Virginia (TCU) Cincy (Baylor)

Ron Prichard 6 years ago

Matt, I think the Big 12 still has a card to play. Reports are that they are content to remain at 10 for now and then explore 12 or maybe more teams in the future. Actually, I think they have already decided to move to 12 but are waiting for MU as to when they will make that move. As it stands, WVU likely will have to wait until 2013 to play in the Big 12. If the remaining schools can hold MU to another year (essentially giving a finger to the SEC in the process) then I think they explore the ND non-football option with BYU football only and maybe one other player. At the same time, because they are solid with 10 teams for at least the forseeable future, they are in no rush to expand.

However, if the Big XII is not able to keep MU from bolting next year, the league would be at only 9 teams and would be in danger of defaulting on its TV contract. If that happens, I think they immediately go after Louisville and Cincy, thereby virtually eliminating the remaining Big East football schools and destroying the Big East, which would possibly eliminate any waiting period as the remaining schools scramble.

Then again, this is just the ramblings of an interested, but definitely not "in the know", KU fan.

Any thoughts?

Kyle Sybesma 6 years ago

I think you're right that the Big 12 is holding back some cards on Louisville and Cincy. Everyone is playing one card at a time. (Except Missery who can't hold their cards. Drop them at the wrong time, pick it up and move their eyes rapidly left and right hoping no one was looking.)

If W Virginia comes why not just offer Louisville and Cincy if you've been considering them. Why wait for the 27 month waiting period to start next summer when they could also have a higher exit fee. Attack the Big East now while it's weak and they may be able to avoid the 27 month waiting period. Depending on how much influence the basketball schools have.

kesmithstl1 6 years ago

Big XII gains 6 teeth today by losing MU, and gaining West Virginia!

ejlumus 6 years ago

Front ones no less and a school admin with a brain

Craig Watcke 6 years ago

As much as I dislike Mizzou and am disappointed that we have gotten to this point - I don't see the addition of long distance,directional,and commuter schools (Cinci,Ville) as a positive outcome.

Morgantown is 900 miles from Lawrence and does't have a major airport within 2hrs.

Craig Watcke 6 years ago

United Express 3 flights/day to Dulles

kureader 6 years ago

I agree ... nothing against W. Virginia but their location is awful for fan travel and more importantly, for accessibility by other Big 12 Teams.

Scott Smetana 6 years ago

Without a doubt in my mind, dirty Missouri politicians will steal and squander away any extra money the SEC gives them. They will still bank on Kroenke wifes's Walmart money to add to their mediocre facilities. They now will have ZERO chance at greatness in football and be in a league in which nobody cares about basketball. SEC and Mizzery loses. I couldn't care less about them, I was just hoping they would end up in the C-USA.

texashawk10 6 years ago

Pretty sure people in Lexington care a little bit about basketball, and they'll have no problem telling you how great they are and how everyone else is inferior to them.

Brian Skelly 6 years ago

I still think WVU is a strategic move in regards to all this. You yank the Big East's best football 'program' -- maybe only true program, and immediately weaken them... probably to the point implosion. Lots of those other schools thinking of joining will probably think twice about it.

Let's not pretend that the Big 12 is in any great place with all this. Although its in a better place now than its been since the beginning of all this insanity 2+ years ago.

What I dont get is how the minions in the Big 12 (all but OU and UT) dont essentially out vote them with the move to 12. After all the melodrama they just went through with the Pac 12 (OU not able to go unless UT comes and caves on the LHN, etc) I cant envision them getting to hard core about that. Obviously im wrong because, no one (in public anyway) seems to be vocally advocating it.

Of course, that could be still part of the plan. Wait for the Big East to go away, then pick up the 2 you want most (and can get -- not counting ND) and run with it.

Im still on the 16 team kick, but its clear until / unless networks are jumping at it and raising the $$$ on it, its a no go.

Kristen Downing 6 years ago

In case anyone is still awake...here is the news from the east for the morning. I wish we were moving past 10 members, just to shake the whatever Texa wants thing. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/sports/ncaafootball/West-Virginia-Big-12-Big-East.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/sports/ncaafootball/West-Virginia-Big-12-Big-East.html

DallasJayhawk1 6 years ago

Kind of far fetched but you never know. There's got be some other pieces being talked about besides WVa.

DallasJayhawk1 6 years ago

Can someone please post of a lost/found sign with a Mizzery Tiger on it but with Lionel Ritchie's famous song lyric on top of it: "Hello. Is it me you are looking for ?"

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