KU's bench and some numbers that are hard to believe

Posted by Jesse Newell March 11, 2013 at 2 p.m.

Kansas head coach Bill Self waves to the fans after the Jayhawks' 83-62 win over Kansas State on Monday, Feb. 11, 2013. by Nick Krug

Let's start with a trivia question: In coach Bill Self's 10 seasons at Kansas, who had the worst shooting season with a minimum of 100 field goal attempts?

While you think about that, let's examine just how thin Self's bench is this season.

Since the 2006-07, KenPom.com has tracked the percentage of a team's minutes that come from its bench. NCAA average each year is right around 30 percent.

Self has only had one team — 2010-11 — that was above the NCAA average in percentage of bench minutes. The last two years, he's gone almost exclusively with his starters, as 22.7 percent of his minutes went to bench players last year and 22.2 percent have gone to reserves this season.

There is good news for KU: Final Four teams typically don't have deep benches.

In fact, only five Final Four teams in the last six seasons have had benches that have played 30 percent or more of their team's minutes.

Five other Final Four teams — including one national champion — actually played their bench less than KU has this year.

Bench minutes percentage for Final Four teams by Jesse Newell

The bigger issue for Self isn't his team's lack of bench minutes, though — it's the lack of offensive production he's getting from those bench players.

Let's get back to the first question: In Self's 10 seasons at Kansas, who had the worst shooting season with a minimum of 100 field goal attempts? For, this, I'm using effective field goal percentage, which gives 1.5 times credit for threes, because they're worth 1.5 times the points.

Any guesses?

The student section throws confetti on Monday February 11, 2013 in Allen Fieldhouse. by Richard Gwin

Out of 71 players that qualified, the correct answer is Naadir Tharpe this season.

His teammate, Perry Ellis, is second.

Worst shooters, min. 100 FGAs. by Jesse Newell

See the full list.

If that's not scary enough for Self, let's lower the bar to 50 field goals attempted in a season.

If we do that, KU's four top bench players (Tharpe, Ellis, Jamari Traylor, Andrew White III) all rank as four of the worst five shooters that Self has had at KU.

Worst shooters, min. 50 FGAs. by Jesse Newell

See the full list.

It's not impossible for a team with a thin bench to make a Final Four or even win a national championship.

Having said that, I'm sure Self would feel a lot better about his team's chances if his reserves started hitting a few more shots.

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stupidmichael 2 months, 1 week ago

These numbers scare me.

jaybate 2 months, 1 week ago

stupidmichael won't see this:

Reserves? We don't need no stinking reserves.

albraun 2 months, 1 week ago

They don't bode well for next season unless the new recruits live up to or exceed expectations

jfos4 2 months, 1 week ago

That was my first thought too with the way this bench plays. The hope is that Ellis will make the turn and Tharpe will continue to improve, albeit likely as a backup again next year to one of the fab-frosh we have coming in. And don't forget about Landon Lucas after a year of banging with Withey, and Jamari Traylor can fill some gaps. But we will rely heavily on the incoming freshman, a la u. of kenstinky.

LSHawk 2 months, 1 week ago

Its not just the shooting of the bench players that scares me, its the pace at which they play. When the coach gives the starters a rest our offense slows down, and I mean way down. I sure hope they get better because next year could be a long year if they cant pick up the pace.

jaybate 2 months, 1 week ago

Seriously, Jesse, Self is ahead of the curve on the coaches.

It is stupid to play your bench much in Madness, because the refs don't call fouls. If your players can foul 60 times a game, as Jay Bilas says they are coached to do, the only reason to play subs is to rest them for the second of each two game tourney. And Self learned from Shaka Smart that XTReme Conditioning is the way to not have to do that.

Self's last two teams are acknowlegements on his part of what Shaka Smart taught him.

You don't need a deep bench in the Madness.

In fact, it counterproductive. You want six guys, like UK used, or 7, as KU used, and you want them fouling all the time and you want them all recognized as important. The refs won't foul a star out of the Madness. Period.

Frankly, Self could get by with 5.

The refs would never foul out a team with only 5 guys every.

THis is the brave new world of referees keeping games in windows and keeping recognized players on the floor.

bville_hawk 2 months, 1 week ago

The stats he cites are for Final 4 teams, but the stats are for their SEASON, not just March Madness.

jaybate 2 months, 1 week ago

Thanks for straightening me out on that.

Rockn_Chalkn_KU 2 months, 1 week ago

@Jaybate -- we are likely to lose Dooley or Townsend in the near term. Those guys have been with the program a while, and I have to think it's only a matter of time before they take a head coaching job somewhere. Have you considered putting your resume in Coach Self's hands? With all the knowledge you've got, we need to get you as a part of the coaching staff!

Wishawk 2 months, 1 week ago

KU can't possibly pay for one Jaybate for two Dooley and Townsend because Jaybate is a think tank of multiple personalities. Have you recognized the different writing style on different day or post? ;)

jaybate 2 months, 1 week ago

I like a good joke.

But so as not to offend our fellow board rats here, and so as not to give even more ammunition to my critics than I already dole out to them, I'm a board rat, like everyone else here. Nothing more. Probably less.

Dooley or Townsend are to me what J. Robert Oppenheimer was to Moe Howard. In Self's case, its Einstein to Shemp.

They are heroes of mine.

I am in awe of what they do all of the time.

Likewise with the players.

Wishawk 2 months, 1 week ago

No worries. Enjoy most of your analysis. Just can't follow some of the looong essays. :)

Lawkan 2 months, 1 week ago

Its not the fifth foul that kills you. It's the quick 2 in the first half that greatly impacts the game, even more devastating if followed by a quick whistle early in the second half. If that happens to Withey we will be in serious trouble.

Lulufulu85 2 months, 1 week ago

Hey Jaybate, I gotta respond to this. I agree, in part about ref's not fouling out stars. It happens. But, remember whats his name from Memphis, their big starter, he fouled out before OT. Then we spanked there arses in the extra 5min. I think our bench, atleast Naa and Ellis will see a spike in their offense production come tourney time. Ellis has gotten better as of late and we've seen Naadir shoot real well, hope he shakes his slump. The 08 team had a killer bench, even if they didnt get alot of minutes as per Jesse. Collins, Kaun, Aldrich. Best bench we've had in 5 years.

Pbbut 2 months, 1 week ago

The good news...only one guy on both those lists was a junior, Aaron Miles in 03-04. Better times are ahead for these guys. I believe more minutes, better feel, more confidence, coaching, and training will improve these guys numbers. We need them now to provide minutes, defense, rebounding with a minimum of turnovers. Shooting will come...I hope.

OakvilleJHawk 2 months, 1 week ago

Reasons everyone not a senior, nor named BenMac, Naadir, Jamari or Perry, should stay home are as follows.

1] The Elijah charge/blocking "no call' will become a standard play in the Big Dance.

2] The commercials are doubled both in number and length so the players will have a hard time even breaking a sweat.

3] JB is correct...lots of fouls stop getting called when a player reaches four and All-Americans don't foul out...PERIOD!!!!!

4] The only call from the regular season which will stay consistent is the charging call brought on by the "Duke Flop."

5] Dick Vitale and Brent Mushberger can only remember about eight names per team.

6] Too many players wearing the camo unifroms may cause mass blindness!!

7] Check out every team that you see playing...everybody has a bunch of little white guys sitting at the end of the bench. Are there really that many coaches sons??

iamakufan 2 months, 1 week ago

Number 1 has been the standard during the last seconds of a game for a long time now.

Wishawk 2 months, 1 week ago

7] Somehow I'm having a hard time picturing Niko and Evan being as pale as Tyler. LOL

conlawgrad 2 months, 1 week ago

The only concern I have with our bench is that that they feel like they're playing just to give the starters a rest. They haven't transformed over the season from being subs to actually producers on the team. I believe you have to have a mentality going into the game that you're going to be someone who scores or rebounds or plays solid defense for a few minutes but Perry or Jamari, in my opinion, haven't grasped it yet or just haven't been productive enough to seem like those types of players. Hopefully Self pushes them to realize they need to step up and help the starters out a bit now that tournament time is here.

jgkojak 2 months, 1 week ago

Barring injury, I think you can with with 6-7 guys (the starters plus Tharpe and whoever is more needed bulk vs finesse between Traylor and Ellis), especially if one of your guys is the future #1 pick.

However, you CANNOT allow teams to get up 10-15 pts on you, which seems to be what we like to do. Especially in the Sweet 16 and opening rounds, you need to put teams away early, rest your legs, and be ready for the battle in less than 48 hrs.

bradynsdad 2 months, 1 week ago

Can someone post the video of Perry putting the 2 Baylor defenders on the floor?

KoolKeithFreeze 2 months, 1 week ago

Kansas vs. Baylor: Perry Ellis brakes ankles!! by Chase Pledger

Hawkanator 2 months, 1 week ago

I'm still mad that we didn't win that game.

iamakufan 2 months, 1 week ago

If we could look at trends, wouldn't Perry Ellis' eFG% be on a significant rise?

dannyboy4hawks 2 months, 1 week ago

That move by Perry was sweet

jjjjjhok 2 months, 1 week ago

This season offers more evidence Coach Self is a basketball coaching savant! No team starting 4 seniors should be this good!

We've probably cut down our last set of nets this year (I'll take Okie St in the Big 12 and elite eight for KU in the NCAA's.) That said, I'm calling 2012-13 a huge success!

2013-14: Big 12 title number 10 and National Champion favorite!

hawk_of_ages 2 months, 1 week ago

I hope you're right about next year, but that's not the way I see it. I expect we'll lose several games early due to inexperience, and get better, hopefully in time to pull out another conference title -- similar to our trajectory in 2006, although MAYBE we can make it out of the first round this time. Regardless of how great the incoming freshmen are, I give us a much better chance to win it all this year.

SaltLakeHawk 2 months, 1 week ago

Starting 4 seniors is a blessing, not a handicap.

Robin Smith 2 months, 1 week ago

luckily

Withey, McLemore, and Releford are all in the top 3rd in best FG% and Releford specifically is the having the second best shooting year Self has had at Kansas:

Tyrel Reed 09-10
Travis Releford 12-13
Mario Chalmers 07-08
Darnell Jackson 07-08
Markieff Morris 10-11

unluckily, EJ is right near the bottom, not long after Tharpe and Ellis, right outside of the graphic.

Ellis has improved and EJ has mostly turned things around. If EJ can be pretty good, Kansas will be an elite team again in the tournament.

I'm not at all discouraged by the last game against Baylor and I still expect big things.

albraun 2 months, 1 week ago

Agree with OakvilleJHawk's list except for #5 - Douchey V and Mushturder don't matter in the dance since they work for ESPN, and CBS carries all those games. Instead we get Clarke Kellogg and Jim Nantz, who aren't a lot better, although I'll never forget Nantz's "Rock chalk championship - Kansas takes the title" in 2008 !

REHawk 2 months, 1 week ago

Didn't I hear that Vitalis was to announce the Tournament this season?

JayHawkFanToo 2 months, 1 week ago

Coach Self has said in many occasions that once the season starts in earnest. he likes to play 7-8 players, no more than that. The rest of the players get to play in games where the outcome has been decided. In this respect he is typical of most coaches as it is accepted practice. Coaches that play more than 7-8 players are those that cannot get consistent production from their top players.

jackdavid 2 months, 1 week ago

After reading the article ~ actually, I only read the first paragraph ~ the biggest surprise to me is that anyone would be SURPRISED at this information. It's been this way since Game 1. And to link the two thoughts "the bigger issue for Self .......lack of bench minutes" -- and "it's the lack of offensive production" is nonsensical~ Excuse me, but aren't those the absolute same issue?~ correct me if I'm wrong. Frankly, I have been amazed that we have had as good a season as we have with no bench strength. A huge testament to the starting five and their level of skill in playing hard (with 1 or 2 exceptions), and avoiding foul trouble, AND the fact that the Big 12 is weaker overall than I can recall for a long, long time. It appears to me that we may be particularly vulnerable going forward. No one will be happier than I when we bring the Big Trophy home at the end.

hawklvr 2 months, 1 week ago

My one beef with Coach Self (and it is a small beef, like a kids meal) is that he doesn't allow the reserves to play through mistakes. As soon as one of the young guys makes a mistake, they are yanked. When they do come in, they look like they are thinking to much and they play tight, tentative and scared. I think all the conference championships are great, but I would be fine with us losing some early games if it means players are getting a real chance to get out and figure out how to play at this level. Look at where Perry Ellis has come. He has been getting decent minutes all year and has struggled for a good portion of it, but lately he has been looking pretty good out there. I wonder how much better White and Rio would be playing at this point in the season if they had been getting more regular minutes with the starters. I can remember early in the season both of them having some decent games. I would also like to see coach sub some of these guys in a lot sooner when we are up by 25 or 30 in the second half. You can see the starters are on cruise control and are not fully into the game anymore. If they are not going to play with 100% intensity, challenge some of the young guys to show why they should be out there and let them play some extended time. Anyway, just some thoughts.