Advertisement
Posted
by Jesse Newell
February 4, 2012 at 3:05 a.m.
Should KU continue the rivalry after this season? Plus, predictions for Saturday's KU-MU matchup
Jesse Newell: Welcome back to the GameDay Cram Session, as Kansas is taking on Missouri on Saturday night in Columbia, Mo.
Tom, how many different Missouri players could you make an argument for as the Tigers' MVP?
Tom Keegan: Four:
1. Ultra-quick Phil Pressey is great at getting to the paint to set up teammates for open shots and you have to respect his ability to score.
Missouri guard Phil (Flip) Pressey (1) puts up a shot under pressure from Kansas State center Jordan Henriquez (21) during the first half Saturday, Jan. 7, 2012, in Manhattan, Kan.
He can pull up for mid-range jumpers and is averaging 9.9 points per game. He leads the Big 12 in assists and steals. His ability to force turnovers that create numbers advantages and his ability to penetrate combine to make him the biggest factor in the Tigers leading the Big 12 with a .498 shooting percentage, even though he has the lowest shooting percentage (.394) of anyone in the seven-man rotation.
2. Kim English, a 6-foot-6 senior forward, plays out of position at power forward and in so doing creates defensive mismatches for the opposition more often than he is on the wrong end of a mismatch at the other end of the floor. Opposing power forwards have trouble following him out to the three-point line, where he has a .495 accuracy rate. He's averaging 14.1 points a game.
3. Ricardo Ratliffe, the 6-foot-8, 240-pound center, averages 14.7 points and 6.3 rebounds. He catches what's sent his way and doesn't miss easy shots, leading the conference with a .751 field-goal percentage.
4. Marcus Denmon is in a major shooting slump but remains a hard guard and leads the team with 17.2 points a game.
Missouri's Marcus Denmon (12) shoots over Villanova's James Bell (32) during the second half in the Jimmy V Classic on Tuesday, Dec. 6, 2011, in New York. Missouri won 81-71.
JN: Though this Missouri team gets the reputation of being a great outside shooting team (and rightfully so), the biggest difference between this year and last year actually has been the Tigers' two-point shooting.
So far, MU leads the nation with a 56.5 percent two-point percentage. To put that in perspective, no MU team in the last nine years has even shot better than 53 percent from two-point range.
Obviously, Ratliffe has a lot to do with that number, but so do guys like English and Michael Dixon, who have had amazing two-point transformations this year.
Missouri's Michael Dixon, right, celebrates with teammate Kim English during the second against Oklahoma Tuesday, Jan. 3, 2012, in Columbia, Mo. Missouri won the game 87-48.
English is up to 53 percent from two this year after making 37 percent of his twos last year, while Dixon is at 52 percent this year after making 41 percent a year ago.
A lot of the credit there has to go to MU coach Frank Haith, who has set up an offensive system that plays to the strengths of the guards he has.
Tom, I think almost everyone would agree that it's a shame such a great rivalry is ending. Does part of you wish Kansas would continue the rivalry, even though Missouri is bolting for the SEC?
University of Kansas senior Matt Rissien, Overland Park, dangles a hanging Tiger in front of the Missouri team during warmups at Allen Fieldhouse. by Nick Krug
TK: No. That nearly would make Kansas an accomplice to the crime of Missouri turning its back on a great conference. Some day, they might be reunited in a mega-conference. They might face each other in an NCAA Tournament, maybe a bowl game. If so, the rivalry will show it still has fire, but for now, Missouri ended the rivalry. Period.
JN: OK, Tom, what's your prediction for this game?
TK: Kansas by 2.
Kansas forward Thomas Robinson pulls center Jeff Withey in for a hug after Withey converted a bucket off a foul during the second half on Wednesday, February 1, 2012 at Allen Fieldhouse. by Nick Krug
Mizzou has a lot going for it: The crowd, wanting to win the last rivalry game in Mizzou Arena, a team that shoots better and has a better bench than Kansas. KU has Thomas Robinson going for it and if the guards can get Robinson the ball in the right places, nobody's going to stop him.
JN: I'll go the other way and take Missouri by five.
The biggest reason? The last two years, KU has done a horrible job of taking care of the ball at Mizzou Arena.
Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor pushes the ball to forward Mario Little as he is pressured by Missouri defenders Laurence Bowers and Michael Dixon (11) during the first half on Saturday, March 5, 2011 at Mizzou Arena. by Nick Krug
In 2010, KU had 19 turnovers at MU, which tied for the third-most that season. Last year, the Jayhawks had a season-high 24 turnovers in Columbia.
This appears to be a game that could go the same way. Led by Phil Pressey, who is in the top 25 nationally in steal rate, the Tigers force turnovers on 24 percent of their defensive possessions, which ranks 37th nationally.
Missouri also has been great at turning steals into points in transition.
In a crazy environment against quick defenders, it seems likely that the Jayhawks could once again have one of their worst turnover games in Mizzou Arena. If that happens against this year's talented MU team, KU won't give itself much of a shot to outscore the Tigers' powerful offense.
All right, Tom, who's your Hawk to Rock?
TK: Robinson, but I wouldn't be surprised if Travis Releford ends up being the player of the game.
Kansas forward Thomas Robinson soars in for a dunk against the Oklahoma defense during the second half on Wednesday, February 1, 2012 at Allen Fieldhouse. by Nick Krug
Releford will play down low some and the closer he is to the basket, the more dangerous he becomes.
JN: I'm going with Kevin Young.
Kansas forward Kevin Young flashes a smile after taking a charge against an Ohio State player during the first half Saturday, Dec. 10, 2011 at Allen Fieldhouse. by Nick Krug
The last time KU played a top-five opponent and needed to play small, it received a huge boost from Young, who posted 14 points on 6-for-8 shooting against Ohio State. In that game, Young also helped the Jayhawks defensively against an undersized four-man in Deshaun Thomas, as Young was quick enough to get out to him on the perimeter to prevent three-point shots.
It will be interesting to follow the matchups in this one, but if KU does want to play small, Young seems like he'd be one of the best options to guard English. If Robinson has difficulties chasing English down (or gets in foul trouble), I think we'll see Young get an extended chance to show what he can do.
Predictions tally (through 22 games)
Tom: 17-5 record, 226 points off (10.3 points off/game)
Jesse: 20-2 record, 198 points off (9 points off/game)
Hawk to Rock
Tom Keegan
Towson: Tyshawn Taylor (4th in Keegan ratings)
Kentucky: Tyshawn Taylor (1st in Keegan ratings)
Georgetown: Elijah Johnson (4th in Keegan ratings)
UCLA: Tyshawn Taylor (2nd in Keegan ratings)
Duke: Elijah Johnson (4th in Keegan ratings)
FAU: Jeff Withey (4th in Keegan ratings)
South Florida: Tyshawn Taylor (1st in Keegan ratings)
Long Beach State: Elijah Johnson (7th in Keegan ratings)
Ohio State: Thomas Robinson (2nd in Keegan ratings)
Davidson: Thomas Robinson (1st in Keegan ratings)
USC: Jeff Withey (4th in Keegan ratings)
Howard: Kevin Young (4th in Keegan ratings)
North Dakota: Elijah Johnson (3rd in Keegan ratings)
Kansas State: Tyshawn Taylor (5th in Keegan ratings)
Oklahoma: Tyshawn Taylor (4th in Keegan ratings)
Texas Tech: Thomas Robinson (1st in Keegan ratings)
Iowa State: Elijah Johnson (4th in Keegan ratings)
Baylor: Thomas Robinson (1st in Keegan ratings)
Texas: Thomas Robinson (3rd in Keegan ratings)
Texas A&M: Thomas Robinson (3rd in Keegan ratings)
Iowa State: Tyshawn Taylor (1st in Keegan ratings)
Oklahoma: Thomas Robinson (1st in Keegan ratings)
Average: 2.9th in Keegan ratings
Jesse Newell
Towson: Conner Teahan (6th in Keegan ratings)
Kentucky: Elijah Johnson (4th in Keegan ratings)
Georgetown: Kevin Young (9th in Keegan ratings)
UCLA: Elijah Johnson (1st in Keegan ratings)
Duke: Thomas Robinson (1st in Keegan ratings)
FAU: Tyshawn Taylor (7th in Keegan ratings)
South Florida: Elijah Johnson (6th in Keegan ratings)
Long Beach State: Thomas Robinson (1st in Keegan ratings)
Ohio State: Travis Releford (5th in Keegan ratings)
Davidson: Jeff Withey (5th in Keegan ratings)
USC: Elijah Johnson (1st in Keegan ratings)
Howard: Tyshawn Taylor (1st in Keegan ratings)
North Dakota: Conner Teahan (5th in Keegan ratings)
Kansas State: Travis Releford (1st in Keegan ratings)
Oklahoma: Elijah Johnson (3rd in Keegan ratings)
Texas Tech: Travis Releford (2nd in Keegan ratings
Iowa State: Thomas Robinson (3rd in Keegan ratings)
Baylor: Kevin Young (9th in Keegan ratings)
Texas: Travis Releford (5th in Keegan ratings)
Texas A&M: Tyshawn Taylor (1st in Keegan ratings)
Iowa State: Jeff Withey (3rd in Keegan ratings)
Oklahoma: Conner Teahan (6th in Keegan ratings)
Average: 3.9th in Keegan ratings
Comments
actorman (anonymous) says…
Much as I hate to agree with Jesse on this one, I think KU is going to have a huge problem with turnovers and that will cost them. Misuse by 7.
Ozarkhawk (anonymous) says…
In business when your competitor shoots themselves in the foot you don't reach out and help them. You try to bury them. It is the same way in athletics. If a neighboring state is stupid enough to join an eastern division of a southeast conference why would you help them out by giving them a game and continue a tradition in the backyard. Common sense says you tell Mizzou to take a hike. They can tell their fans they can travel to another time zone to watch them play or they can become KU fans and watch plenty of longstanding rivalries in the area. It should be a recruiting advantage for recruits that have parents that want to see their chid play. Lot easier (and less expensive) to get to Ames, Manhatten and Stillwater then it is Florida, South Carolina and Georgia.
JayDocMD (anonymous) says…
Kudo's to JN for actually taking some risks for the Hawk to Rock. Conversely, Keegan picks either Tyshawn Taylor or TRob 14 out of 22 times. He knows this, so he tries to hedge his bets by giving all the reasons Releford will be H2R ... and then picks TRob anyway.
number1jayhawker (anonymous) replies…
Maybe it's because they are the two best players???
jhawkrulz (anonymous) replies…
I believe it is the Hawk to Rock, not the Hawk that might produce if Tyshawn and T-Rob don't produce.
And last game JN picked Conner Teahan...that isn't going out on the limb, that is called not watching the games.
I admit he gave some logic about how KY might do well today; however, last time T-Rob played against a very undersized team he went 30-20, so that same logic could be said of TRob.
tundrahok (anonymous) replies…
How many times this year has someone other than Taylor or Robinson been ranked #1 in the Keegan ratings? If the point is to predict who will be ranked top in the next game, then one or the other should be picked nearly every time.
Jesse likes to pick a long shot, which is fun, but not a great strategy for success. Of course, he's competing against the guy who determines the rankings after each game (Keegan)....
REHawk (anonymous) says…
Hawk to Rawk, Withey.
jayhawkcomet (anonymous) replies…
Wouldn't it be great if Jeff got a triple double with these strange match-ups?
RockCaCO3 (anonymous) says…
No!
NEJhawk (anonymous) says…
Sports didn't create the rivalry and lack of sporting events will not kill it.
If you hate sombody let them go. If they never return they were always your b#%tch. And if they do, get a crowbar from the trunk.
JayDocMD (anonymous) replies…
Poetry...
patkindle (anonymous) says…
Did you ever wonder what would happen
If KU and/or K State had of been invited
To the SEC big Dance, and MU was left Alone At home?
Would be still be in favor of no more
Border war showdowns, or would we
Like to keep them going to rub their face
In the fact we were invited and they were not?
Either way we would still be haughty.
Just a thought
wissoxfan83 (anonymous) says…
Sorry Tom, I defend you, but I think you're wrong. It's not a crime what Missouri did. They're going to another great conference. So it's our duty to punish them by not playing them? How is that punishment for them? It's punishing us. We lose out on a great rivalry game that fans circle on the calendar. We lose an opportunity to play in a very hostile environment. You say Missouri ended the rivalry. Technically, they went to another conference. Do they still want to play us? I haven't researched that angle, but I thought I've read they do. So let's take the childish "we'll show them" attitude that permeates our culture, instead of taking the mature "sure, we'll do this for the fans because this is what they want" stance.
I believe an annual game becomes a maybe even bigger event. An annual bragging rights game holds for the entire year to the winner. Every so often in conference play Missouri has beaten us, but that victory starts to pale because we turn around and win the return game and win the conference.
Let's look at it this way. Let's suppose Missouri does beat us tonight, but we still hold serve in the conference, win the rematch in Lawrence and win the conference again. That diminishes Missouri's victory a lot, wouldn't you say?
Finally, before I start to be accused of bringing out my inner Jaybate, I do agree we'll win by a couple.
JurisJayhawk (anonymous) replies…
Missouri ended the rivalry, period. Use logic. We play Big XII teams. They will play SEC teams. Big XII teams don't play SEC teams. Missouri knew this and they chose to go anyway. By playing them we would be acquiesing to the crime they committed by turning their back on the Big XII and causing all the problems we had.
I'm not sure what your point is about "if we beat them and win the conference it diminishes Missouri's victory." I understand that's a true statement, but how does that fit in your argument about us continuing to play them?
RCJH
wissoxfan83 (anonymous) replies…
My point was that by continuing to play games with them the games actually may have more riding on them. The winner gets bragging rights for the entire year.
As for your saying I'm not logical, the fact that every team plays lots of non conference games means we can still play them. What do you mean Big 12 teams don't play SEC teams? We played Kentucky this year, Tennessee a couple years back, Florida, South Carolina a couple years back.
Was it a crime for them to leave? Why? You may not agree with them but it's not a crime. Football wise it's a step up. They just got the nations #1 recruit. I realize he's a Missouri citizen but might the chance to play in the SEC not have been a motivator for him? Probably.
RCJH!
rob4lb (anonymous) replies…
Missouri did not end the rivalry, they moved to a different conference. They want to continue the rivalry. I agree that the rivalry should not end.
Alohahawk (anonymous) replies…
In leaving the Big 12, Mucky U. in no small way said, "We don't want to play you, or any Big 12 teams." Plain and simple. KU didn't decide who would play. Mucky U. did.
Lulufulu85 (anonymous) says…
Elijah is way way way overdue.
jhox (anonymous) says…
No way we should play them after this year. They made their choice. The beauty of it is that we have 2 natural rivals, while they don't. We can just shift our entire focus to beating
K State every year. No wonder they want to keep playing us, as they have no other real rivals (Illinois is a pseudo rival, but how is a school not in your own conference a real rival?). They want their cake, and they want to eat it too. We can't let them do that. Arkansas would seem a natural rival for them in the SEC, but the beauty of that is they will be in different divisions, and not even play each other regularly. MU has made their bed...I say make them sleep in it. Besides, I'm pretty confident there is an unwritten agreement where Big 12 teams won't schedule defectors in major sports.
As for today's game, I'm not normally an optimist, but I like our match ups today. Our long guards are going to cause them problems. Not only are they long, they're as quick as the smaller MU guards. We should own them in the paint. My only real concern is early foul trouble for TRob or Withey. We've not been getting much love from the refs of late, especially on the road (as an example, only 4 second half fouls were called on ISU last week...I can't remember the last time a team had only 4 fouls in a half, and when you think about the absolute beating TRob takes every time he touches the ball in the paint, it makes that state even more amazing.) Self needs to work the refs early and hard, and make sure we get a reasonable share of the calls.
KU by 8.
Alohahawk (anonymous) replies…
Don't know who is refing this game, but maybe KU will get lucky and the ref Self assisted after the ISU fiasco will be one.
Sooner or later, he's bound to ref another KU game. I don't mean that he wouldn't be honest with his foul calling. Just that, psychologically, he might think twice on questionable calls and give the benefit of the doubt.
But I agree. It would be nice if the refs let the teams decide who wins today, not the refs.
3up3down (anonymous) says…
Take care of the ball, we win by 5.
Turn it over a bunch, we lose by 12
Just reality with this bunch.
Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!
VaJay (anonymous) says…
I'm in full agreement with TK on ending the rivalry & not chasing after a stupid organization that values more money over the tradition of a basketball rivalry (war) going back to 1906 and a football rivalry (war) going back to 1891 !!!
Those jerks knew they were throwing this all away. It can be argued that it is the most intense rivalry in the nation - we love to hate them & they love to hate us, but there's an underlying amount of grudging respect between the two schools (or maybe it's occasional jealousy).
Still, they are leaving & I hope coach Self makes it clear that Kansas nation wants nothing other than a sweep of Misery to send them on their way.
As Keegan says - Kansas by 2 today (they miss a guarded 3 at the end & a whole lotta stunned fans in Columbia just sit there & watch our players proudly display our jerseys to the antlers). Nothing better than that.
stupidmichael (anonymous) says…
Don't have a good feeling about this one.
kuwells (anonymous) replies…
I think I'm with you. I see KU / KSU on Valentine's Day last year. I think Mopery gets up early and we just chase them all game. I hope I am wrong. Like I was about the TAMU game.
theotherphogg (anonymous) replies…
Kuwells - nice avatar.....2112
kuwells (anonymous) replies…
Thanks! Them Canadians rock!
Alohahawk (anonymous) replies…
The problem with (these) avatars is that they're so small. I had to copy and expand it on paint shop to see what it was.
One of these days I'll display an avatar. If I ever get around to it. :?)
mikendal (KUFanSince1975) replies…
A nice Hawaiian greeter at the airport would be a good avatar!
Alohahawk (anonymous) replies…
I've considered a nice Hawaiian "Wahine Lei", if that's what you had in mind?
kuwells (anonymous) replies…
And then you were looking at a naked guys butt. Maybe you shouldn't have investigated. And by the way, you need an avitar. Lei us.
jhawkdan42 (anonymous) replies…
Don't be "scared" KU by 11!
jhawkrulz (anonymous) says…
It is interesting, KU is known for its defense and will play solid today. MU hasn't seen a defense as good as KU's this year. The loses they have this year focused on rebounding. I was kind of disappointed no mention of rebounding.
MU will miss more shots today than average, that happens when you play good defense. If KU stays on the boards, MU will struggle to stay with us.
Keys to win for KU:
1) Rebound everything
2) Score
3) Force Missouri to miss some shots.
theotherphogg (anonymous) says…
Biggest factor for KU in this game? Foul trouble. Beware of the Phogg
drgnslayr (anonymous) says…
"TK: No. That nearly would make Kansas an accomplice to the crime of Missouri turning its back on a great conference."
Thanks, Tom!
FLJHK (anonymous) replies…
+1
justinryman (Justin) says…
KU by 12
Mr. Jeff Withey as Hawk to Rock tonight.
Alohahawk (anonymous) replies…
Mr. Withey with a triple dub against Mucky U. Keep the ball high and don't bring it down where all the Mucky munchkins are. TRob and Withey get Ratty life in foul trouble and block all his shots.
JurisJayhawk (anonymous) says…
I know we don't want T-Rob getting technical's, but I wouldn't mind him getting tagged after a monster dunk tonight. If we're winning/if we win that is. I'm also ok with him acting like it's no big deal and running back on defense. Eitherway, I want t-rob dunk city tonight!
rcjh
Also, Whithey Block Party. #WhitheyBeingWhithey
rob4lb (anonymous) says…
I cannot believe the faulty logic regarding the ending of the rivalry. Let's get the facts straight. MU went to the SEC but wants to continue the rivalry. KU has publicly stated it will not continue to play the rivalry, so who killed the rivalry. MU's leaving the SEC had nothing to do with KU, but we seem to want make it about us. We all know if KU were offered a spot in the Big 10/ Pac-12 or SEC, they would do exactly what MU did.
In college sports, everything now is about branding and the fact that the national media always highlighted the MU-KU rivalry actually strengthened the KU brand. I don't think KU-K-State has the same cache.
drgnslayr (anonymous) replies…
You raise an interesting perspective to it all.
We can't say what KU would have done if the Big 10 came a calling (since it didn't happen)... however... if we are willing to end this rivalry over the Big 12 conference (and in doing so we suffer some brand loss) then doesn't that point to the idea that we wouldn't have sold out the Big 12 to go to the Big 10?
As you point out, we don't put as much emphasis on opportunism as we do supporting the Big 12...
I don't know... just thoughts. I'm glad there are diverse opinions on this topic so we can attempt to look at it from a wider perspective.
rob4lb (anonymous) replies…
Thank you for not accusing me of being a troll and at least respecting my opinion. To me, it looks like the Big 12 will survive for the next few years. I live in Texas and knew that A&M was angling to leave. I would have like for MU to stay and I think they went about it wrong, but who wrote the book on how to ethically leave a conference!
icthawkfan316 (anonymous) replies…
"MU's leaving the SEC had nothing to do with KU"
Actually this is wrong on two levels. MU didn't leave the SEC, they left FOR the SEC Also, how does MU de-stabilizing the Big XII have "nothing to do with KU"? Remember when they were in all their talks it was very shaky ground for KU. We don't have a desirable football brand that would have landed us anywhere decent if Texas & OU would have left.
Why should we reward them for their part in that?
jayhawkintx1973 (anonymous) replies…
I don't think Kansas would leave the Big 12 unless it were to completely fall apart, but I don't see that happening. West Virginia, TCU already in.
BYU and Louisville are going to be invited, and they will likely accept the invitations. Back to 12 teams.
There was only one reason that 4 teams left the Big 12, and that is the Longhorn Network, but it isn't getting much traction even in Texas. You know why?
tcu, smu, Houston, Texas Tech, Texas A&M. The Longhorns aren't the only kids on the block and they learned that the hard way, through their arrogance.
Psycho (anonymous) says…
If Mo wants, they can rival K-state,... that one isn't so lopsided
Alohahawk (anonymous) replies…
+1
If Mucky U. truly wants to play a Kansas school, let them play K-State, or Wichita State. Just don't travel/fly anywhere near Lawrence during hunting season.
kansasexile (anonymous) says…
The rivalry is over. KU should focus on K-State and Texas
mikendal (KUFanSince1975) says…
I watched "Game Day" today. There was a sign and a banners that was disturbing me the most-----
The sign-- "Kansas is for Quitters!" Really? That's weak!
The Banner-- "Quantrill." Wow! How original.
Don't tell me that nobody from the Kansas traveling party saw those today.
As much as I hate to admit it, I think Jesse is spot on, in regard to his prediction. I hope he's wrong, but he has only lost twice this year. We need some breaks from the officials in tonight's game. However, with the Mizzou Arena rocking, I don't know if we will get enough game changing breaks. It should be an interesting game, though, that's for sure. Good luck tonight, Jayhawks! Bring home a victory---boy, that would be sweet!
Hawkword369 (anonymous) replies…
I watched "Game Day" this morning as well and thought that Digger actually had an interesting point of why Mizzou leaving for the SEC ruins this rivalry: Since this rivalry was based on at least two games a year with Mizzou, one game on the road and one game at home with an additional shot at playing them again in the big 12 tourney. Making this rivalry a really big deal to the conference and the fans. Now if we were to play them next year we would only play them once and it would most likely be at a neutral court. This in Digger's opinion would diminish the rivalry. I actually agree with Digger in this case 1 game a year with a team isn't a rivalry it is just another non conference game. I do think we will hate Mizzou just as much but it will mean a lot less when they aren't even in our conference. Kind of like the Mizzou Illinois matchup.
Hawkword369 (anonymous) replies…
I am talking basketball here. In football playing one team a year is the norm
hotrodm (anonymous) replies…
Agreed !!!
wissoxfan83 (anonymous) replies…
I have a theory which I won't rehash here, but what do you think about it? (see my post and response above)
Hawkword369 (anonymous) replies…
I agree that playing Mizzou every year would be awesome for the fans and I for one love this rivalry. I don't really disagree with you when talking about the hatred could grow only having 1 game a year and possibly a meeting in NCAA Tourney. But on the other hand kids that grow up not experiencing the KU-MIzzou Rivalry every year as in conference rivals won't have the same competitive hatred for Mizzou as we do or Mizzou fans for Kansas currently. In my opinion it would therefore lose steam and eventually nobody would care anymore about some border war when we have other big 12 teams that we play multiple times a year and are close geographically. I also think that Mizzou will eventually develop good rivalries in the SEC. Who knows maybe we will all be in a Super Conference together again someday
oldalum (anonymous) says…
I always felt that the only reason Missouri claimed they wanted to continue the rivalry games was to protect themselves from all the mad KCK/Mo merchants who felt MU had dumped on them along with the Big12. From the beginning they were saying--we'd still like to play KU in Arrowhead, and in KC basketball tournaments, but KU won't do it. My feeling is that if they wanted to continue the rivalry they should have stayed in the Big12. Why should we do them any favors now? As to us leaving like they did if given the opportunity, who knows--maybe we did have the opportunity and passed it up. Our dealings weren't all spread out as public knowledge the way MU's were.
jkilgore (anonymous) says…
Not only should the rivalry end, but the B12 tourney should be moved after this year from venue to venue. Several years in Texas, several in Oklahoma, several in Kansas, a few in Iowa, and back again. IF WV is still in the 12 a decade from now, then back there, though I doubt the reshuffling is over.
jayhawkintx1973 (anonymous) says…
I think that KU's size will cause problems for MU.
If MU isn't able to get the ball in the paint without having to double team, KU wins tonight going away.
Of course, there are many ways this thing can play out tonight.
The MU players are going to try to get under the skin of the Kansas guys, and if KU responds with good play, MU will like a bunch of punks after this game, and that is how they need to be humiliated.
jayhawkintx1973 (anonymous) replies…
I forgot to mention Baylor, RGIII Heisman Trophy. Women's Basketball National Championship, and not a bad men's basketball team(better than Texas).
I think the Longhorn Network is going to become the Big 12 Network, or eventually the Longhorns will have to be an independent because they've lost their credibility in the Big 12, and will around the rest of the country of they don't get their crap together.
With what Kansas seems to be building in Football, with the likes of K-State and BYU in the North along with West Virginia and the high powered Louisville offense, the Big 12 North won't be that bad at all, an they'll actually be pretty good.
Not to leave Iowa State out, they've had some pretty good teams recently as well.
But, the Texas Longhorns need to heed the message, because of these other teams want to, they can form another conference and probably steal a team from either the SEC or the Big 10 to replace the arrogance of the Texas Longhorns.
Let me see, Wisconsin or Illinois would be the two choices.
For these other teams that left, one of them could very well come back if the other teams in the Big 12 left the Longhorns in the dust, during the next realignment.
rob4lb (anonymous) replies…
Your speculation is completely off-base. Texas fears no one and realize they still hold the power in the league. They will not give up the LHN. They actually roll $5M from the LHN into academics. What you might see is an expansion of the LHN to include other Big 12 schools. I think it is hit or miss whether the network survives.
Wisconsin or Illinois would never leave the Big 10, EVER. Any school in the Pac-12, SEC or Big 10 has gets the most money and has the most stability- why would they leave for a Big 12 that in your scenario doesn't include UT?
jhawkdan42 (anonymous) says…
Anybody watch gameday? I can't stand those guys, they really picked 4 MU guys and T-Rob 9th! They act like Mizzery is the storied program not KU. It was kinda funny when they showed their championship trophy case and all they could find was a Big12 trophy and a few blue ribbons!!! Of course all 3 picked Mizzery to win so I'm actually feeling prettty confident for tonight.
KU-81
Meth-heads-70
jaybate (anonymous) says…
First, we are most fortunate to have MU leave the conference and create this painless process of never having to go to Columbia again. It has always been a dysfunctional relationship between KU and MU and for the foreseeable future it will never get healthy, so ridding ourselves of them is like getting a spouse leaving a dysfunctional marriage that should never have been consummated in the first place.
Second, playing them in AFH is fun, because they aren't very good and it is usually an easy win at AFH. The only time they give us trouble is in Columbia, because of bad officiating, and even then we mostly split with them.
Third, we already own the advertiser-attractive share of the Kansas City TV market, and St. Louis is going down the economic chute so fast that TV deals with MU don't do us as much good as a game with an east coast opponent would for both TV revenues and recruiting exposure.
KU's future is in a Big 12 expanded first with WVU, Louisville, Pitt/Penn State, Notre Dame, Rutgers and perhaps Syracuse and Maryland; then second with BYU and half the Mountain West teams.
The Big 12 might consider St. Louis, or Missouri State, if there were any real need for a presence in Missouri, but there seems not to be. And since neither of the Missouri schools have credible D1 football programs at this time, it seems unlikely that the Big 12 will ever participate in the state of Missouri again. And this is not a bad thing.
Pre conference opponents should be scheduled for their benefit to KU basketball. Scheduling MU would be like scheduling Colorado, or Nebraska. It would do nothing for our recruiting and nothing for our major market media exposure. No one in any of the major recruiting hotbeds cares about Missouri football or basketball, and MU getting itself buried in the second division in the SEC will make them vanish almost completely from the national radar, and so make them even less desirable to schedule.
KU is in a great position, if it can successfully cherry pick both the Big East and the Mountain West conferences. It will be in the upper tier of the nation's first legitimate three time zone super conference and it cut a geographic slice up the Ohio River Valley all the way to NYC. The conference will be able to offer three games in three time zones to TV each night. And teams with their own TV networks will be able to spike revenues with additional advertisers seeking to span three time zone markets.
So to conclude: continue the rivalry any time MU wants to play in AFH, forget it otherwise. Never on a neutral floor. And never, never, never in Columbia ever again. Their fans are disgraceful and abusive, and the officiating is consistently biased there. And beating them does nothing for our national stature, or for our recruiting.
Calijhawk (anonymous) says…
Missouri made the decision to leave. That's fine for them. The consequences of that decision, however, was conceding the KC television market, and the recruiting base, to KU. They deemed the St. Louis market as being more valuable for them, which is fine.
Why, then, would Kansas give any of the KC market back, even for one game? They want the ability to peddle their team to the SEC marketplaces, and they want KU to help them get exposure BACK into KC area? Really?
Don't play them in Arrowhead, don't play them in Columbia, and don't play them in Lawrence, in anything. Make them live with the economic and recruiting consequences of their decision.
Like Bill Self says, if it doesn't benefit us, don't do it, and I agree.
mtnhvn (anonymous) says…
Yes, KU-MU will always be a good rivalry. How about the KU-MU games in Sprint center? What will the football do is they can't use Arrowhead Stadium for more games?
jhawkroger (anonymous) says…
Continuning to play MU after this season was best described on the TV last night. "It's like divorcing your mate and continuing to date." Should not happen. The Tigers made a decision, end of story. I wonder if the decided to become cannon fodder in the SEC for football?
fansincewilt (anonymous) says…
The Tigers have already made the choice. The rivalry ends. What was the final tally for games won and lost?
jcourt (anonymous) says…
Hell no, why give those bas----s a superbowl every year.
Pitthawk34 (anonymous) says…
I would be fine with a 2 for 1, 3 years from now. I think there is no way any big 12 team will play them for the next 3 to 5 years. Well let see I chang my mind why help MU play get any national exposure from us. That played their hand now let them play the confederacy.
Pitthawk34 (anonymous) says…
I would be fine with a 2 for 1, 3 years from now. I think there is no way any big 12 team will play them for the next 3 to 5 years. Well let see I chang my mind why help MU play get any national exposure from us. That played their hand now let them play the confederacy.