jayhawkboogeyman (anonymous) says...

I am having a hard time deciding my position on this. As I watch the game, I keep thinking we need to fire him. But then I soften up and think back to my magical year in 07-08 and how much I loved him. But then I think about last year, the heartbreaking loss at USF, crumbling late at OU, solid defense and no offense vs. UT, no defense against NU, and all the wasted talent on the follow up team in 08-09. And now in 09-10, it has been bad from the beginning. I remember walking home from the first game of the year, everyone happy with having killed N. Col., and me angering every one in earshot saying how we would have no chance at beating ou, ttu, nu, mu, ut, if we played that poorly later in the year. And, as much as I hoped I was wrong about our moronic defensive schemes and out-of-rhythm offense, I was actually exactly right. With a twist- Iowa State missed upsetting us by a couple feet, and we played horribly at CU.
There is a large contingent of fans who look at you suggesting to fire MM and say, "How dare you! I've been a fan and suffered through 958,349 games worse than today! Give the man time! You're not a real fan!"
But that is a stupid way of thinking. Since we have been disappointing in the past, we should just accept being disappointed week in and week out now? Since a meaningless bowl game appearance meant we had a "good" year in the past, we should be content to lose to good teams and line up just enough pathetic teams to make another Insight Bowl or some comparably worthless game? The Chicago Cubs have been saying "give it another year" for 100 years, and they are still a bad team.

November 1, 2009 at 4 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawkboogeyman (anonymous) says...

MM is among the highest paid coaches in the league, and yet he fields one of the worst teams. He has never beaten the top opponents in the South (OU or UT) and not even been close to a comparable TTU team the last two years (we beat ourselves yesterday, and that is the worst football team there is). The Orange Bowl had a nice win at OSU, but aside from that one, MM has no clue how to win on the road.
Jason Whitlock wrote a column before the 08-09 season in which he predicted basically the season we had, and said that was OK because the 09-10 season would tell us what kind of coach MM is: a true winner who can assure us a 10-win season every year, or a 5-8 win coach who can use a terrible schedule to get to some worthless bowl. You can all see the answer to that question now.
MM is a great guy, but his teams mirror his personality - quiet, methodical, unemotional, lackadaisical, always thinking too much and never just in the moment. Our defense, even when it has been good, has never been tough and intimidating. And our offense, even when extremely effective, has never had a killer instinct. At the worst, our defense would give up halfway through a game, and our offense runs the same failing plays over and over, content to walk to the sideline for the punt team and mull around the sidelines hoping and wishing, not resolving and working, that the next time it goes better.
This season was a 10-win year if our players were focused and the coaches put them in position to win. Instead, we are praying to win 7. We haven't had any major injuries, just moronic coaching decisions. This team is miserable to watch, and that is not a good thing when we are dumping another $40million into the stadium and asking people to buy $90 tickets. And, with the departures we will have this year, only a fool would think next year looks any better.
It pains me to say it, and I am so glad I don't have to decide for real, but I think this year is the time to thank sincerely MM for all he has done and send him on his way. He is a wonderful man and great representative of the U, but his paycheck is for coaching football, and at that he has disappointed.

November 1, 2009 at 4 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

milwaukeeJAYHAWK (anonymous) says...

Sorry, i don't know what you guys are smoking. Sure, Mangino isn't a perfect coach, but it takes a long time to build a "National Championship" program, especially coming from the depths of KU's esteem in the football world. It's hard to get kids to want to come to KU vs. some other schools. I'd say if he had a few bad seasons in a row, yeah, let him go. But 3 bowl wins in 4 years at a school who hadn't won a bowl since 1995. Sure, maybe he has an off year, but fire him?

We're not Texas. We're not Oklahoma. We're not Florida. Let's not expect it just yet.

Imagine K-State firing basketball coach Frank Martin for not taking the team to a National Championship. Um....it takes time to build up a sucky program.

So true, he could do better. But could we pull in a better coach? We're not a powerhouse.

November 1, 2009 at 4:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MrPilot (anonymous) says...

Over the last two years everyone was singing Coach Mangino's praises as far as their voice would carry. Now suddenly after a couple of bad games you're ready to fire him? It's a wonder anybody ever wants to be a coach with imbecilic fickleness like that.

November 1, 2009 at 5:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jwliddell (anonymous) says...

fodder

November 1, 2009 at 6:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FreddyD (anonymous) says...

Call it what you want, but it's a fair question. See, unlike the Floridas, USCs, OUs and Texas' of the world, KU doesn't have the luxury of finishing with six or seven wins after an eight-win, Insight Bowl season that nobody saw because most of the country still doesn't have NFL Network. Back to back mediocre seasons can doom a program like KU, just ask the folks in Manhattan who are feeling pretty good about its chances next Saturday...

What has anyone seen this season that makes you think this program is going to rebound next year or even next week? What playmakers are going to step up a la an Anthony Collins or Aqib Talib or Charles Gordon? Sure, McDougald is solid, and I like Opurum, but there's nobody on defense with the exception of Tharp that gives me warm and fuzzies, and offensively, Jonathan Wilson has regressed, Meier will be gone and Briscoe may implode by the end of the season anyway... Does anybody feel good that this team can finish .500 in its last four games? Away games at KSU at UT, and then the rivalry game at Mizzou plus a home game with Nebraska... That was a 3-1 stretch before the season, and now, KU could find itself battling just to make a Bowl game... Then you wanna keep Mangino with a 7-5 or 6-6 record and the Barely Got In Bowl on WE? And let's not forget, K-State is playing better football than KU is right now with a shoddier roster and a renewed sense of hope, and say what you want about how old Snyder is, but that guy is on a mission and if KU fans think KU's going to win recruiting battles with the Wildcats because of the last four or five years, you're nuts... If this year has shown us anything, it's that Snyder got complacent at the end of his first tenure and is a Hall of Fame coach, while Mangino is a good coach whose teams have won one big game - the Orange Bowl - during his time... If KU fans are cool with the Insight Bowl every year, keep Mangino. You want to compete for a Big 12 Championship every year? Thank Mangino for what he's done and wish him luck at his next stop.

November 1, 2009 at 6:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawkboogeyman (anonymous) says...

I agree you have to give a guy time to build the team. But we are not talking about establishing recruiting lines, improving facilities, etc. We are talking about getting the most out of the players we have, which he has not done the last two years with high expectations.
He didn't just get here; it's been what 8 seasons, and we are still beating ourselves in close games?
What really irritates me most is the comment he made about kicking a touchback rather than a squib or onside after taking the lead. He is the coach, and if wants to give it to them at the 20 instead of taking a chance on recovering the ball, great. And the way TTU ripped through our worn-out defense, a few yards field position would not have mattered. But he didn't say any of that. He said Branstetter is not capable of kicking anything but a long kickoff. Are you insane, coach? Your starting kicker of 2 years at a division I school can't kick a ball that rolls 20 yards on the ground? And at no point in 2 seasons of practice did it occur to you that at some point in a close game having the ability to onside kick would be nice? He said it didn't work in the OU game, so there was no reason to try in this game. I'm fine with not doing it, but I am not okay with not doing something because your players haven't been taught a basic skill that every other kicker in the league can do. How are you a coach if you are not making your players learn and practice new things that could determine the outcome of a game?

November 1, 2009 at 7:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

powerlineman (anonymous) says...

Hey face it folks, say Kansas Univerisity and everyone thinks of basketball. I am so proud of what has been done over the past several years that i can't believe anyone would even entertain the notion of getting rid of coach Mangino. My God people he's pulled off a mircle as far as i'm concerned and taken KU football to great heights and given me and many many others much pride and entertainment. KU do the right thing and keep him, and go KU football players, keep up the great work and it will all come back around again.

November 1, 2009 at 7:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawkboogeyman (anonymous) says...

powerlineman - I understand where you are coming from. But the old excuse "we used to be terrible, so we should be glad to be average" is not good enough. We should be asking what we can do to become excellent, and instead we are saying "5-3 would have been a miracle year in the 90s" while the team is regressing by the minute before our eyes. Two seasons in a row, Mangino has fielded a defense that gave us no chance of winning and had to overhaul the whole thing midseason. That is symptomatic of poor preparation and planning. This season, his defensive changes have worked, which is good, but our offense, the supposed strength of the team, has lost 3 weeks in a row. He is a great guy, and I hope he gets things turned around, but it has been 8 years. At some point, you have to say maybe this is as good as it gets from him, and can we live with what he gives us?

November 1, 2009 at 8:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

whitechocolate (anonymous) says...

And what, you guys think those new practice fields, workout facility, recruiting gains were just casual growth?

This is Mangino's program. There are going to be bad games and bad calls. But don't fire the guy who has made KU into a football name. Sorry, but you guys are f-ing nuts.

November 1, 2009 at 8:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

easyfive (anonymous) says...

It's not we hate him, it just he is not learning on the fly.
He told our star QB Todd R. to quit running around and just take the sack!!! You are doing too much. Our fun to watch Sparky, the little greased pigglet that could not get sacked is getting sacked 5 to 6 time a game now.
And he is not fun to watch anymore. He is not a pocket passer... He screwed up our toy. And is not manning up and taking the blame. It is all my fault be cause because i told Todd to stay in the pocket and just take the sacks.
He took all the fun out of KU football.

November 1, 2009 at 9:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FreddyD (anonymous) says...

You're right, this is Mangino's program, and let me just remind you one thing about Mangino's program - you take away his 12-1 Orange Bowl year when KU ducked Texas Texas, Texas and Oklahoma and had one of the best left tackles in college football with Anthony Collins and a nasty group of LBs and Talib - and suddenly Mangino's record at Kansas is 38-43 overall and his conference record is 16-36 if you include this season. And when you consider that this team probably won't win more than 8 games this year, that's about right for Mangino and what he's done at Kansas - 7 or 8 wins and a trip to some average bowl game. Like I said before, if that's what you want, take it. As a KU football fan, I want more. I don't care that KU doesn't have a football tradition. K-State didn't have one either before Snyder showed up - and with all due respect powerlineman, what Mangino has done at KU is not a miracle. KU has had some, albeit dated, football success. KSU was on the verge of shutting football down before Snyder arrived. That's a miracle.

Mangino put this pressure on himself when he made the Orange Bowl, and he's followed that up with two average years and a win against Mizzou to save its season last year as his only big win since beating Va Tech. This is the Big 12, BCS football. This isn't about a three-game losing streak and hitting the panic button. This is about a coach who has led a program as far it'll go with him at the helm. And again, I implore someone, tell me what about this team, which won't be near as good offensively next year, makes them think that another 7 or 8 win season isn't in the cards next year?

November 1, 2009 at 9:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

suttonku (anonymous) says...

I think Mangino is the right man for the job but I think he needs new coordinators, at the very least a new defensive coordinator...I know MM wont get rid of both of them at the same time and I think the first to go will be Bowen...This defense doesnt have the most talent but they are sure as heck better than they have played this season.

I like Mangino mostly because he doesnt promise anyone anything and that is why we land some good recruits...Mangino is an honest man and he plays the best players and thats why kids want to play at KU, not because Bowen or Warinner are good at recruiting because that is hogwash...Let's get someone who has been successful at leading a defense like we did with Bill Young...And if Warinner cannot get the job done then it is time for him to go as well.

November 1, 2009 at 9:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

whitechocolate (anonymous) says...

I think with Mangino, a 7 win season is possible next year.

I know without him, a 2 win season is possible every year.

Let's not make the mistake that NU made with Solich or Iowa State made with McCarney. I understand your argument, but Mangino has been there. He won big with KSU and Oklahoma. Don't tell me this guy has no upside.

November 1, 2009 at 9:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jwliddell (anonymous) says...

First off, you can't just take away the 12-1 season, and then say what he's done isn't a miracle. THAT season itself was a miracle. Reesing worked miracles every game, and Mangino and co. made that an amazing season. We reached #2 in the polls, we were, albeit for a week, the second best team in the country!! Tough schedule or not, that's a tough thing to accomplish with a group of sophs and frosh leading the way. That's great coaching. If you want to blame the schedule, then Boise St. shouldn't be where they've been the past 3 years. Erase them from the boards right now. That team is terrible because of their schedule.

All this talk is absolutely the result of a panic button. Think about it. How close were we to having just a 1 loss season so far. Our team is good enough that it played poorly and still almost beat CU and Tech. We all know what these players are capable of, yet we lose the faith so easily. It's sick. OU fans, who I can't stand, know that they have a great team despite their record. Football is a tough game, with a lot of teams that are better than advertised, and those teams usually equalize other great teams at inopportune times. We beat Duke and SoMiss this year in the noncon ... those two teams are not cake teams. Duke beat Virginia last week and are ahead of Vtech and Miami in their conference, good for second place. So Miss barely lost to Houston 50-43 after beating Tulane 43-6. A team that scores 43 points in back to back games in conference play isn't cake, and we beat them.

I'll tell you what makes me think next year will be a better season, besides the softer schedule in the BIG 12. A Defense that has matured a lot this year and will be a handful to deal with next year. The unpredictability of the North side of the conference. The big man in control of the program, who won coach of the year 2 years ago and took us to an Orange bowl, and back to back bowls for the first time. Reesing is an amazing player, and he's done a lot for the program, but something I've been considering is Pick's impact on the game next year. It should be substantial. The kid has wheels and an arm. He reminds me of McCoy, just not polished yet. We wont be great on offense, but there is a ton of potential. McDougal, Opurum, Briscoe(if he stays) Wilson, Sal Capra. We nearly pulled off a win on the road against a potent TTech with our offensive superstars mentally or physically out of the game. Reesing and Meier were non factors in production, yet we hung with TT. Our defense has impressed me the last three games. They've played well despite being put in terrible spots by the offense.

November 1, 2009 at 10:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jwliddell (anonymous) says...

This team is only a two loss team in my eyes(The CU game was a joke, and I consider that a game in which they battled back from their mistakes only to have poor officiating pull the rug out, which I also think changed the momentum of the season. They played their hearts out only to come up that short because of a offensive pass interference call that was pure crap.)

You are calling off a season that isn't over, when KU has a winning record right now, and a fighting chance to do a lot more. As far as I'm concerned they (Mangino and the players) have earned the chance to redeem a slipping season for their efforts the past couple of years. If they would've won that Colorado game, nobody would be saying a damn thing about firing Mangino, because we would've lost to two great teams in OU and TTech, although I think we probably beat Tech had we not been so deflated from the CU game.

I think it's the fans that will cause this team to implode more than the team itself. If we sit here and put more pressure on a team that I guarantee you already has enough weight on their shoulders, it will continue to crumble. They need support, not fans with a disgusting sense of entitlement. I've been to every game this year. The OU fans out cheered the entire East side of our stadium. That is weak. I feel that this team has been playing only for themselves, rather than the KU fan base because of the lack of support. Our guys are hurting just as much as we are. Help them by supporting them. I know we probably wont, but if we win out this season, then this story turns into something completely different. Mangino will then be a genius, the BCS will be turned upside down, and we are fat, happy pigs with a 2nd BCS game under our belts. have some faith. Don't believe me that it's possible?? Go to Allen fieldhouse and take a look at the !988 NCAA basketball champions banner and tell me that a good team can't have a sub-par record and do great things.

November 1, 2009 at 10:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

100 (anonymous) says...

Give Reesing his wheels back.

He's not a pocket passer.

Let him create -- that's all he's ever done.

Drop him back 3 yards & let him take the snap from there. We'll all be amazed at what he can do (again) when he's given his vision & wheels back.

No more pocket passing -- that's not what we are.

We're a spread attack.

Let's go back to what got us here & stop trying to look like the boring offensive Oklahoma teams of the 50's.

Rock Chalk, Coach

We're all behind you -- it's time to admit your mistake & move on -- back to the "collegiate" spread at it's best.

No one, & I mean no one, does it better than us when you let Todd do his thing without handcuffs -- we're thinking too much on offense.

We know what works!!!!

It's time, just like we did with the D a few weeks ago, to come clean & simplify everything -- an eagle doesnt fly well if you attach a computer to his head.

These are athletes! Give them ownership & you'll be amazed at the results & enthusiasm that arises naturally!!!!!

November 1, 2009 at 11:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

waywardJay (anonymous) says...

JW..... Wow. Great Speech.

100... likewise....

You see Ladies and gentleman, we are in a tough spot.

Some Suggest we sacrifice a Receiver to Gain A quarterback. I say Your F****** Nuts.
SOme Suggest we fire some Coordinators. Bowen's D is coming around. What they did is working, and it had us ahead 21-14 on the road.... in a game we needed Desperately..... Our Offense is in a horrible place right now, we can't afford to pull the plug on reesing, but we can't just keep giving him every oppurtunity to make this a 4-8 team.

The question is, where is the Bottom ?

The Bottom's not Next Year, when we have a Quarterback who isn't limited by his Height. Nor will it be limited by the Work of our talented return receivers and the ones we will not burn a red shirt on this year......

Nor the year after... I disagree, we could be outstanding on Offense with Opurum and MacDougald Alone without much from Kale PIck.... Look at Illinois 2 years ago, with Mendenhall and Freshman Arrelloius Benn and Sophomore Juice.... I argue we are in better straights with our boys than they were.... and we will be playing inferior competition ......

I think this is the bottom guys, and we are 5-3 looking up at 4 teams we can compete with .... Perhaps we overthought this year a bitt ?

We assumed Kerry meier would be as good a receiver when people were expecting it for a full year.

We Assumed Dez Briscoe was going to better his numbers from last year, it appears he will not.

We are living and dying by 5'9 Brett Farve who wills every last ounce of his body for our team, Bill Whittemore was the Quintessential Jayhawk....And Reesing makes Him look like a Cyclone.

We assumed Jake Sharp could play 12 games at 100 %, behind a patchwork line, when he has never done that.

We assumed we could assimilate a whole new defensive scheme with players who might or might not fit that defensive scheme in about 8 months, and we are starting to reap the results.

These are not easy things to look at. But they are facts.

You don't change Horses mid stream, and I don't think recruits are looking at us much differently today than they did two years ago.... after last year's end we still pulle din Opurum and MacDougald....and those two alone can keep us competitive for 2 more years against the "lesser" South....

The Question is... can we feel deal with being a .500 team against the "greater" south and potentially a .750 team against the "lesser South for two more years..... even when the North is getting better...... I think we can.... I think we will, and I think we will get this turned around.

It starts with Sending K-State BACK to Pretender Status Saturday. We need the win worse than they Do, and frankly.... we get K-state... I like us against either Nebraska or Mizzou..... and I think we can run with Texas..... especially if Reesing Ceases his Flutie Moment. I still feel that coming out of him....

November 2, 2009 at 1:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

waywardJay (anonymous) says...

(continued.. I had 3014 characters...it only allows 3000 )

In the Darkest Hour we all must find Light....

Rock.
Chalk.

November 2, 2009 at 1:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

waywardJay (anonymous) says...

seizes not ceases ( ouch that hurt the overall tone )

November 2, 2009 at 1:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jwliddell (anonymous) says...

good speech yourself, wayward. don't worry about the seizes mispelling, it flowed so well it wasn't even noticeable.

100, wayward, I'm glad the both of you see the positive side of things, that all isn't lost, and that regardless of the outcome of this season, the future is bright. The thing that I think is really funny is when everyone is expecting us to be a terrible football team, we make it to an Orange bowl, and when we are expected to be great, we struggle. Remember the look on every analyst on ESPN's face in 07 when they had to say "If KU wins one more game, they can't be left out of the National Championship game" What a beautiful thing.

I think this is a team that thrives as the underdog. I think this gives us an edge moving forward.

I am happy now that I know there are at least a couple of people that share my enthusiasm for this team in the face of adversity.

I'm originally from Texas. One of the things that made me cheer for KU was the fans. They were always portrayed as the smartest and most loyal fans in the country. That 88 bball team had such an impact on my life, and I was only 8 at the time. I realized that anything is possible as long as you have enough will power and support, you can turn something ugly into a positive, and when you do, it is the most gratifying experience.

I've been accused of seeing this team with rose colored glasses. I think it's quite the opposite. A lot of fans are looking at this team through a cloud of fury from 3 frustrating losses. They are forgetting what we are capable of.

Goodnight, gents.

Rock Chalk !

November 2, 2009 at 5:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FreddyD (anonymous) says...

Quesitoning whether a head coach should be retained after the season when this isn't the first time he's coached his way through a three-game losing streak isn't about panicking or dampening enthusiasm about the football team. It's a question of whether or not anyone really believes Mangino can take this program any further.

Maybe some of you are right, that KU will be great and compete when they don't have to play superior competition, and then they'll beat the Baylors, the Texas A&Ms and so forth... And then the years we play Texas, OU and TT, they'll just lose to them again. If you like competing for a Big 12 Championship every three years, great. Good Luck recruiting in those down years. What are they going to say to recruits after this season?

"Don't worry (insert 3-star prospect name here), we get to play the bottom-feeders the next two years, and you'll fit in great and hopefully by the time you're a junior, we should be good enough to hang with the OU, TT or Texas until the fourth quarter..."

I just want to know, with all the positivity on this board backing Mangino, and I applaud and admire those sentiments, what happens if KU loses to K-State? Seriously. Because it's time to start thinking of KU as the underdog heading in to that game now. I guess we'll see how everyone feels, myself included, after Saturday.

November 2, 2009 at 6:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawkjoe98 (anonymous) says...

Freddy,

I have a problem with what you said in one of your earlier replies. You said something along the lines of 'if you take away the '07-'08 season, Mangino hasn't accomplished much.'

My response to you is this:

If you take away Bill Self's championship season, what has he done? ZERO final fours in seven seasons. That's hardly acceptable at Kansas University. KU is expected to compete for national championships and Bill Self has not done that. He should be fired.

It's not fair to pick & choose what you want to see. You have to look at the entire body of work and the '08 Orange Bowl season is a part of Mangino's body of work.

And even if you do take away that season, Mangino's record and accomplishments are still VERY good, considering the history of the program.

November 2, 2009 at 9:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

waywardJay (anonymous) says...

Freddy, You don't crawl and then immediate break into 4.3 forty on your first steps.....

we went from not winning ANY conference games to an Orange bowl in a span of 3 years..... and we are expected to beat teams that routinely overload.....

We are asking too much to go from beating Va Tech in an orange bowl game with two outstanding NFL players..... to routinely beating the best of the best.....

We got lucky with schedule that year..... and we got a team we matched up well with in the Orange Bowl.... No decisive Starter... One slow and accurate.... te other athletic and INaccurate.... We were a team that knew it's roles, and clearly thrived against teams who weren't quite sure how to attack us.

We came back the next year and Immediately thought we could beat anyone on our schedule, the problem with that is.... it takes time to cook an excellent chili.....

Could we have beaten those teams last year.... Yes but we didn't.... OKlahoma our Defense just let get away, and Texas we were fighting wirth for most of 3 quarters..... Ask Mack Brown about how longs it takes to finally beat Oklahoma.....took him along time.....

it's ok our guys are not quite there yet... That's fine.... You cannot become and elite level program overnight..... You can take a bunch of kids who are willing to believe anything..... get them to 11-0 before reality bumps it's hideous head.... and respond by defeating a team that was caught asking the same question we are asking right now....

Are we for real ?

You know... I still don't know the correct answer.

im willing to give Mangino one more cycle of the " greater " South because face it.... he deserves it.... Anyone who says getting to the promiseland is easy is Urban Meyer.... Not everyone gets handed a Loaded Program from a previous coach who was wrongfully deposed .....

As long as kid's keep coming for Mangino-ball.... im willing to stick with Him.... However, I think we may need a few new plays next year.

November 2, 2009 at 2:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FreddyD (anonymous) says...

I'm going to leave this argument alone and make one last point - I understand what everyone is saying here and that you don't go from also-ran to world-beater overnight, I get that. But what most of you are missing the point on is it's been eight years, and while some of you are arguing that what he's done is a miracle, let's not forget, he took KU to a Bowl game in his second year. He followed that up with a 4-7 season, and by his fourth year, where he's established his program, he finishes 7-5, makes it to the Fort Worth Bowl and needed a last-second win to make it that far. Next season, doesn't qualify for a bowl and nearly gets fired if Reesing doesn't save his bacon.

Next is the Orange Bowl year - which I'm going to argue is the outlier of Mangino's coaching record. The team played a soft schedule, lost it's biggest regular season contest and can thank Lew Perkins for the OB berth, and that's fine, that's what The Lew gets paid to do. Last year, most of the defense returned, most of the offense aside from AC returns, and this team stumbles eerily similiarly to what it's doing now, imploding in the middle of the season after feasting on cupcakes, and then needs a win at the end of the season to guarantee a Bowl berth. Wow, sure sounds like the other two years KU made a bowl... And gee, we're in year eight, Mangino's program is well-established by now, facilities are in place, his players are in place, have been for the past four-five years now, heck, there were even expectations coming into this year, and suddenly, KU finds itself fighting for relevancy, its quarterback says he's hurt yet the coach says he's fine, the defense is bringing guys over from wherever they can find them and the Division I kicker can't squib kick apparently... Get over the, "This is Kansas, we didn't have any tradition before he got here", "he needs more time", more time for what? Midseason implosions? Needing to win the last game of the season to get into a mediocre bowl?

The Orange Bowl year is proving quickly to be the exception rather than the rule of Mark Mangino's time here at Kansas... And again, I ask somebody, anybody, please enlighten me on how back-to-back 7 or 8 win seasons helps this program. Thanks.

November 2, 2009 at 3:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

waywardJay (anonymous) says...

Freddy the answer is obvious.... look back before mangino and what did we have... back to back 2-4 win seasons....

It took Mack Brown something like 7 years at TEXAS.... a school in a place to pick and choose it's 5 star recruits to beat Oklahoma..... The losses are certainly closer now than they were 4 years ago..... just on talent alone....

Reverse Course and Put Mack Brown IN Charge of Kansas, do you think he would be any better off ???? I honestly don't think so.

The outlier in this..... we struggle the same as every other north Team when faced with Oklahoma and Texas...... a Few have snuck up and bitten the big boys when they weren't looking..... Ron Prince did some fine work against Texas.... but he couldn't coach against Kansas to save his life..... Colorado Upset Oklahoma a couple years back..... we haven't gotten our "upset" in the South yet.... Others have.... that goes to show the FOCUS teams come in when playing against Kansas, and alot of that comes from other coaches respecting mangino......

You have a point when we have become a softer team.... we are not as gritty as we once were.... I think the grit comes from not having a Physically dominant running back which we are starting to get from Opurum.... Not bashing on Sharp, but let's be honest.... His speed is his only real asset, why not split him out wide like a percy Harvin with Opurum as the set back.... that would sure turn some heads....

November 2, 2009 at 5:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawkjoe98 (anonymous) says...

Back-to-back 7 or 8 win seasons help this program because they are better than back-to-back 4 or 5 win seasons.

...which is what it was before Mangino came to Kansas.

It's unreasonable to expect Kansas to win 9 - 10 games every season and compete for a Big XII title year in and year out. Not with the overall strength of the Big 12. When you look at Kstate and Snyder's successes of the 90s, he did it when Oklahoma & Texas were both down, Kansas was pathetic, and Missouri barely existed. Nebraska was the only legit contender that Kstate had to face year-in and year-out -- and it took a long time before Snyder was finally able to defeat Nebraska.

Personally, I think your expectations are just too high.

Another thing to consider...

If Mangino were to be fired, who would replace him? Or his coordinators? What about all of the incoming recruits & current players who came to Kansas to play for Mangino and his coordinators? What would they do? Where would they transfer to?

Kansas would almost have to hire an unproven, assistant coach from somewhere. Proven coaches will shy away from the job because KU would have just fired a coach who just took the program to unheralded heights and an orange bowl victory 2 years ago. No one will want the job.

And let's not write this team off yet. KU still has a good chance to win 3 more games and finish the regular season with 8. That's not bad....

November 2, 2009 at 5:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jwliddell (anonymous) says...

We are staring down 27 wins in three years, with a chance at making it 30 in three years if we stop playin' sloppy. That's not bad at all especially considering the three of four years before that we were averaging 6 wins a season at best. More wins = progress. Progress is what we want right?

November 2, 2009 at 6:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justanotherfan (anonymous) says...

I don't think the question is whether or not Mangino has raised KU as a program - clearly he has.

The question is, has Mangino lifted them as far as he can. That is a reasonable (and still open) question.

During the Orange Bowl season, I told a buddy (a non KU fan) that the bulk of the players on the Orange Bowl team were the types of players we would have to get away from if we were ever going to become a power program.

I think the last two seasons have proven that out. For too long, Mangino feasted on the rejects of the powerhouses. The guy that was too small for Texas, or not fast enough for Oklahoma, or not athletic enough for Florida, or not quick enough for LSU, etc.

Just this year, we finally landed two guys (Opurum and MacDougald) that were athletically gifted enough that powerhouses WANTED them. Granted, they wanted them to play defense, but they were (and are) athletes capable of playing at powerhouses.

If Mangino is going to be able to raise this program further than 8-9 wins, it will be proven out, not from Sept to Nov., but in February, when we either sign elite athletes, or we don't.

If we do, then yeah, Mangino has earned his keep. If we don't, though, then in three years we will be singing the same song. Yes, the Todd Reesing's, Jake Sharp's, James Holt's and others of the world raised us from mediocrity to relevancy. But the reason that OU and Texas beat us is because we take the kids that wouldn't have seen the field for them anyway. To compete with them on the field, we have to compete with them in February.

November 3, 2009 at 1:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

waywardJay (anonymous) says...

great point JAF

November 3, 2009 at 1:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

suttonku (anonymous) says...

Look at the recruiting class we have coming in...I am impressed with these guys coming in next season...Especially the WRs...Herod is very quick off the line and could be a deep threat on offense and a CB on defense...And then you have Keeston Terry, a very gifted WR from Missouri...And KU has two Florida LB visiting soon as well...I think we are getting the better athletes we are just going to have to be more patient with Mangino.

November 3, 2009 at 1:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justanotherfan (anonymous) says...

suttonku,

I am not disagreeing with you. I just think that this is where the battle will be won. Keeston Terry is a great example of a great guy to get.

However, we lost Blake Bell (QB) to oklahoma. He's from Wichita for crying out loud. He's the #4 QB in the country according to Rivals.

We lost Justin McCay (WR) to oklahoma. He's from Johnson County. He's the #46 player in the whole country. That's two of the top players in the whole state of Kansas, and they are going to be Sooners next fall.

As of right now, of the top 10 in state recruits (according to Rivals) KU has committed one. Just for reference, K-State has three, Missouri has one, OU has two and Oklahoma State has one. Only one remains uncommitted. We are losing the battle in our own state, just as we did last year, when Bryce Brown, Jaydan Bird and Marshall Musil all went out of state (Brown to Tennessee, Bird and Musil to OU), and the year before (Arthur Brown to Miami, Chris Harper to Oregon, Broderick Smith to Minnesota), and the year before (Blake Lawrence to Nebraska, Brian Smith to Notre Dame, Christian Ballard to Iowa).

Do you realize the last time KU signed the #1 in state player was Jake Sharp in 2006. Kerry Meier was the #1 guy in 2005, so when we sign top in state talent, we get contributors, but too often we have missed in the past.

I will know Mangino is ready to compete when he closes the borders. How can we convince top talent from California, Florida, Texas, Louisiana and other places to ignore offers from USC, Florida, ut, ou, lsu and others, and come to KU when we can't convince talented kids from Wichita, Shawnee, Mulvane, Garden City and other Kansas towns to come wear crimson and blue?

November 3, 2009 at 2:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jwliddell (anonymous) says...

Very good points, JAF. I can't really argue against that at all. I would like to say that it is refreshing when MM gets a guy, like Reesing for example, that isn't the top player on the recruiting board, and molds him to compete at a high level. I know this hasn't produced wins over OU or UT (although it should've last time UT was in Lawrence, BCS refs, bleh) but it has got us close, and got us above where we were before. I just can't help to think that eventually, and hopefully within the next 3 years, Rudy will get to play in the game. MM might not be winning the recruiting battles, but imo, he is winning the coaching battles. I can only imagine what it will be like when he gets a top tier class in here.

November 3, 2009 at 4:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justanotherfan (anonymous) says...

One other note on recruiting, specific to instate recruiting. Mangino has, to this point, failed to lock up either of the largest two recruiting bases in Kansas (Wichita area and KC area). In fact, I would say Mangino has overall faired poorly in those areas as opposed to the rest of the state. At some schools (i.e., most schools in the south) not recruiting well in the largest cities in your state is a fireable offense. I don't think we are to that point with Mangino, but I thought it was something that should be looked at long and hard.

November 3, 2009 at 4:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

milehighhawk (anonymous) says...

One of the stupidest things I've read in a long time.

The guy won the orange bowl in 2007.

Who the fvck would come here and do a better job?

Grow up and get an attention span. 3 poor performances in a single season aren't a reason to FIRE the coach. Jesus.

November 4, 2009 at 2:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

truehawk93 (anonymous) says...

I'm really diappointed because with our experience and leadership I expected much more than three loses in a row. I don't think it's time to break out the ax. Let's see what he does the rest of the season.

He knows changes need to be made. He did make changes against CU, Reesing and positions for the seasons (maybe not the exact right ones). He does make changes and knows the need to make them. I think we'll see some interesting personnel changes, particluarly with the coaching staff at the end of the year.

We've got some great talent coming and more experience going into next year. It's too early for the team and ManG to make drastic/permanent decisions. Let's see what happens at the end of the year and also what actions are taken before we start demanding heads. I definitely see him making some key changes!

RCJHKU

November 4, 2009 at 2:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawkboogeyman (anonymous) says...

The problem is that it takes until the season is hopeless to start making changes. It is absurd that two consecutive years he has gone through an entire summer and preseason with a completely ineffective defensive scheme and had to overhaul the entire until in a week. And we run the same few offensive plays over and over the entire game. Then, after we lose a winnable game, we make changes for the next week.
He certainly could turn it around and make it a 9 win season, and there is no way you fire him after that, but the way this team is regressing, I am not even betting on a bowl game. If this turns out to be a 5, 6, or 7 win season with the most talented and experienced group we are going to have for the next few years, then you have to put most of the blame for the season falling apart on MM.

November 4, 2009 at 9:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )