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Lawrence resident Joshua York was tased by a Kansas Highway Patrol trooper after the Kansas-North Carolina game on Saturday after he refused to throw away his glass beer bottle. York said the officer never explained that glass bottles weren't allowed downtown and that the situation could have been avoided with better communication.
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Final Four celebration ends in Tasing
For one Jayhawk fan, celebrating KU's big win over North Carolina ended abruptly when he was stunned by a Taser gun. As 6News reporter Jesse Fray explains, it was all over a beer bottle.
Tasers
Joshua York was ready to celebrate.
Kansas University's men's basketball team had just defeated North Carolina in the Final Four, and he was heading to downtown Lawrence to join the crowd.
But his chance to join the approximately 20,000 Jayhawk fans on Massachusetts Street ended quickly April 5 when he was tased twice by a Kansas Highway Patrol trooper on hand to assist Lawrence police with crowd control.
York, 32, was walking west on Eighth Street toward Massachusetts Street. He'd brought a bottle of ale from home.
As he neared the crowd, he made eye contact with a few of the 200 on-duty officers.
"I smiled and held up my bottle, to salute them," York said.
That's when things went bad. A KHP trooper approached him.
"Immediately he demanded the bottle," said York. "I said, 'No,' thinking that he wanted to prevent alcohol in the streets."
York, of Lawrence, saw several other people drinking in the street, so he didn't understand why he was being singled out.
"Without telling me what it was about, (the trooper) just grabbed ahold of the bottle, grabbed dead hold of it, and I didn't let go," York said.
Officers weren't allowing people to carry bottles or cans on Mass. Street that night, only plastic cups. Lt. Mathew Heffley told York he had to get rid of the bottle or leave the area, said Capt. Dek Kruger, KHP troop commander.
"He decided that he didn't want either one of those options, so that left no options for us. We had to take some sort of action," Kruger said. "We would've been satisfied just removing the bottle."
Another trooper approached York from behind and took him to the ground, with the help of a Lawrence police officer, Kruger said.
Heffley stunned York with his Taser twice, once in the leg and again in the back, Kruger said.
"He was tased, and he was tased because he was resisting arrest," Kruger said. "When he was placed on the ground, he was instructed to place his hands behind his back and he was not cooperating. He in fact was physically resisting the arrest."
Kruger said Heffley used the Taser because it was a "lesser force" than open hand strikes or blows from a baton.
York calls it a "breakdown of communication."
He said it makes sense officers didn't want bottles in the crowd, but he said that was never explained to him until after he was stunned.
"I just didn't know," York said. "I thought it was about the alcohol."
York was arrested for disorderly conduct and booked into Douglas County Jail, where he was held for less than two hours before posting a $100 bond. Charges haven't been filed against him.
More departments are assigning officers Tasers, which stun a suspect so they can be subdued. Lawrence police were recently issued Tasers in a pilot program.
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Comments
Strikewso (anonymous) says...
What a moron! A cop tells this idiot to give up his bottle and he thinks it's some kind of debate? Here's your sign...
April 15, 2008 at 3:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Nutflush21 (anonymous) says...
Amen Strikewso, no comments from anyone defending this idiot are needed.
April 15, 2008 at 5:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KUGreenMachine (anonymous) says...
If I had a taser on me, I would have tased him for being dumb....
April 15, 2008 at 6:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jayhawkinatl (anonymous) says...
Fear the taser!!!!!
April 15, 2008 at 7:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mavrickkc (anonymous) says...
Dont tase me bro! Seriously. Why argue with a cop about something that petty. Its what, a $3 beer? Throw it away and go get another!
April 15, 2008 at 7:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KUFAN08 (anonymous) says...
hahahahaha! Just let go of the beer idiot!
April 15, 2008 at 7:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dannyxo (anonymous) says...
I guess under his logic, nothing is a crime if more than one person is doing it. Law enforcement has no right to ask anyone to do anything unless they ask everyone at once. If they don't then they are singling people out.
April 15, 2008 at 7:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Chicago_JHawk (anonymous) says...
Whether it was about the alcohol IN the bottle, or just the bottle itself, seems pretty clear to me that the cop wanted him to GET RID OF IT! There shouldn't have been any "breakdown of communication" about that. Idiot.
April 15, 2008 at 8:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Phillbert (anonymous) says...
But did he shout "Don't tase me bro!" That usually works.
April 15, 2008 at 8:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KUMatt2001 (anonymous) says...
Are you guys serious?
April 15, 2008 at 8:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justanotherfan (anonymous) says...
Added to the list of bad ideas...
Tell a cop "No" when he instructs you to do something.
April 15, 2008 at 9:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Brickwall1 (anonymous) says...
Not disagreeing that the guy should have let go of the bottle at all, but cops everywhere are getting way too trigger happy with Tasers. It's non-lethal so they don't have to fear any consequences for using it. What they don't know is that Tasers can be absolutely deadly for somebody with a weak heart. It wouldn't have hurt to give a warning before tasing the guy.
April 15, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dlshaw74 (anonymous) says...
And the purpose for this article is? Don't even give this guy the time. What a joke. I like what he said in the video. The bottle "was my property." LOSER.
April 15, 2008 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
OPJayhawk (anonymous) says...
Idiot Deluxe.
April 15, 2008 at 9:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jhawks (anonymous) says...
Yes KUMatt... We are serious.
I would also expect that this guy was wearing either a North Carolina t-shirt or worse, a K-State t-shirt... IDIOT!!!
Hey York, how was your jail cell while we were all out partying?
April 15, 2008 at 9:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kushaw (anonymous) says...
"It was my bottle, It was my property." LMAO! This kid is an utter moron. Hey kid, when an officer tells you to get rid of a $2.50 beer bottle, then you get rid of the freaking bottle. You know you're not suppose to be in the streets with beer anyway. Future advice: Put your beer in a plastic cub so it doesn't look like you're drinking beer! The parents of this kid must be oh so proud! What a moron!
April 15, 2008 at 9:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kcphantom (anonymous) says...
Why not put a story about Rex Walters getting a new coaching job instead of this piece of worthlessness?
Piece of advice for the "property" owner - it's NEVER going to turn out well if you try and fight back against a police officer. DUH!
April 15, 2008 at 9:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jcsmith (anonymous) says...
Well, not trying to defend this guy, but the cops monday night were a little quick to jerk a can or bottle out of peoples hands before even letting them know why. After walking around all saturday night after the UNC win with bottles and cans in everyones hands, we didnt think twice about it being any different monday night. So as I walked around the corner of 12th onto mass, while taking a sip of my beer, a cop grabbed the can and ripped it right off of my lips. The only thing that really got to me was the manner that they were doing it in. Had they just asked either finish the beer and dump the can here or go find a cup, I would have been fine. But there was no explanation as to why until they had already grabbed the beer. I absolutely understand why they didnt want cans or bottles up there after the mess from saturday night. I know I wouldnt want to clean all that up. So, I just found a cup and kept going back to my car and pouring beer in it. Wasnt that big of a deal. Just have to say that some of the officers could have been a little more tactful in the way they went about disposing of the cans and bottles coming into the area.
April 15, 2008 at 10:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mcrozb (anonymous) says...
Jeesh, I learned early as a teenager, whenever a cop asked if i wanted the weed he found or if he could take the alcohol I had, a simple "No sir" or "Yes Sir" usually ended the situation. A good lesson for any stubborn idiots out there.
April 15, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hawkandtigerfan (anonymous) says...
This guy is an idiot for fighting with police, but even worse, this article is retarded. Is this article actually showing pity for this guy? Why would this guy have thought he was unfairly singled out? Why didn't he give the bottle up and ask the cops about the "unfairness"? He would have found out he could have a plastic cup . . . . But why is LJWorld making the cops out to be terrible people? Why can't people take responsibility for their stupid actions rather than always vilifying cops? Cops usually enjoy the same crap you do. I doubt they'd rather be on duty than celebrating with all the people in the street. How did Joshua York get in college? He should be back home working in a McDonalds if he's this dumb.
April 15, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oldalum (anonymous) says...
Wasn't the "no bottle, no cans" policy publicized pretty clearly in advance? I read it several times. It isn't only the mess--those things are potential weapons if someone gets all crazy.
April 15, 2008 at 10:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MILFdestroyer (anonymous) says...
ahahahahahah!!! what a moron
April 15, 2008 at 10:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KUMatt2001 (anonymous) says...
I can't say I agree with what he did, but given the circumstances, there's no way he deserved to be tased and taken to jail.
But what really amazes me is everyone on here laughing at and ridiculing the guy...
Hope it makes you all feel better about yourself.
April 15, 2008 at 11:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hardwick15 (anonymous) says...
Bottom Line:
Don't disrespect a police officer. No excuse to do so, ever (except when I will be questioning him on the stand, then I'll do it respectfully). But, even then, people were getting hit in the head with full cans and bottles after we beat Carolina -one of them was a good friend.
All this guy had to do is just respect the police officers and let go of his GLASS can. I have NO sympathy for this guy.
April 15, 2008 at 11:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yovoy (anonymous) says...
yeah, the police are always right...just ask europeans that are old enough to remember just how right they ALWAYS are.
was york being dumb and un-inventive? yup. should you always comply with police orders? nope - and my brother, father, and grandfather were law enforcement. i don't agree with what york did (or how he did it), but i agree less with the board's general compliant attitude.
April 15, 2008 at 12:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hewn (anonymous) says...
Wow. What an interesting set of priorities. Cups of booze are ok. Bottles and cans aren't. But go ahead with those baseball bats.
You guys may have missed it, but I saw five guys with baseball bats demolishing a car parked on Mass on monday night. How does that happen? How many cops did we bring in from other towns that night? What exactly were they there for? To tase someone who was drinking peacefully like tens of thousands of others, and to ignore those engaged in violent destruction. Wtf?
I hope you all understand if I don't share your sympathy with the police.
April 15, 2008 at 12:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JayCeph (anonymous) says...
Um... the majority of these posts are frightening. I can't believe that the sheep reading this article think that this kid was justifiably addressed.
It was a breakdown in communication. At no point should they be allowed to take someone down if they aren't told ahead of time that they are under arrest.
If some crazy bozo came up behind me and tackled me, I'd resist too. Especially if it was out of the blue. The police need to announce themselves and their intent. Without that, we would regress to the days of SS Stormtroopers.
You sheep need to worry about your rights. If the cops want to take the bottle, they need to engage in a dialog and show the same type of social etiquette they are trying to preserve. At no point was there a need to taze this guy. I hope he has a great attorney and sues the hell out of the PD.
That type of behavior is unwarranted... especially during a celebratory event where everyone is drinking but doing so in a manner that is non-destructive.
Had the officer just stated the parameters of the rule (instead of grabbing and being brutish), my guess is that this would never have happened. Even kindergartners are taught this simple rule of courtesy. Where is it stated that the police don't need to be ambassadors of the law and the city/citizens they protect?
York, get an attorney!
April 15, 2008 at 12:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
turdferguson (anonymous) says...
Wow! I didn't know I so narrowly avoided being tased. Monday night I was entering Mass St and had a full beer in my hand and as I passed by, a cop said "hey! you can't take that" I said "oh, sorry" and handed him the can. Taking time to stop and argue with the cop never even entered my mind.
Of course I also had two more in the pocket of my hoody that I WAS able to drink on the street.
April 15, 2008 at 12:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jcsmith (anonymous) says...
oldalum,
I dont ever recall seeing anything about a "no cans, no bottles" policy. Where was this publicized cause apparently i'm not the only one that missed it, beings there were pyramids of beer cans stacking several feet tall from police confinscating them.
April 15, 2008 at 12:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lance1jhawk (anonymous) says...
I don't even live in Lawrence and read about the No Bottles and No Cans policy on Mass. St. after the the games.
If some dumbass has a problem giving up his 2 dollar Mickeys big mouth, and feels like being un-cooperative then he deserves whatever he gets. TAZED and Confused!
April 15, 2008 at 1:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JayCeph (anonymous) says...
lance1... you might be on to something. And for all those Jews that got on the trains that took them to the concentration camps, I suspect they got what they deserved, right? I mean, according to your rationale, if they were to be 'uncooperative' then I suspect that a general 'mowing down' would be in order.
incredible... (I'm embarrassed for you all)
April 15, 2008 at 1:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bunot (anonymous) says...
2 important questions:
1. if i had a bottle of pepsi, would the cop come over and have taken it from me? hmmm....
2. was the state trooper a K-State graduate?
April 15, 2008 at 1:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
turdferguson (anonymous) says...
Comparing this to the holocaust, Jayceph? Really? That is, by far, the mot ignorant comment on here.
April 15, 2008 at 2:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
truefan (anonymous) says...
Agreed turdferguson..."My name isn't Burt Reynolds."
April 15, 2008 at 2:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
actorman (anonymous) says...
"But what really amazes me is everyone on here laughing at and ridiculing the guy..."
I'm usually sensitive to people being unfairly ridiculed, but what this guy did is just plain stupid. There was no reason for him to try to argue with the cops over a beer bottle. Did the cops overreact? It certainly appears that way. Should they have been more communicative and less brusque? Absolutely. Does that excuse this idiot's inability to comprehend that the cops are THE LAW and that this was a trivial matter? No.
And as for you jayceph, I'm not sure flabbergasted even begins to cover my reaction. As the son of a holocaust refugee, I find it WAY beyond offensive that you would equate someone refusing to give up a beer bottle to millions of people being murdered simply because of how they were born. Words cannot begin to express the magnitude of the ignorance you've displayed.
April 15, 2008 at 2:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jayhawkerjoel (anonymous) says...
So, it makes me a sheep if I comply with a law enforcement officer - when I know that I am breaking the law? Just because the police were allowing people to have beverages in plastic cups is no excuse for this guy to throw a tantrum when told to give up the glass bottle. I have a cop friend who worked both nights and yes, they took away ANY glass or can container, not just beer. He also has been injured from arresting people who have resisted - all before the days of tasers. Not using a taser could have resulted in real injuries to both the suspect and the cops. IMO, the cops bent over backwards to let people have fun and still maintain some order of civility.
April 15, 2008 at 3:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
robot (Robin Smith) says...
both parties reacted without thinking or communicating very extensively. one party used a weapon on the other party.
York is stupid but the officer could have hurt him seriously for the crime of being stupid.
police have a bigger responsibility so even if York should have been more compliant, the police should give him more opportunities to be compliant. it's not like York was being aggressive, he was simply resistant.
April 15, 2008 at 3:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kushaw (anonymous) says...
I can't believe the thinking of most people (I think most are students) that attended or took part of the Mass Street celebration on Saturday night. Let me ask you all a question. In the State of Kansas can you walk in public, on the streets, or on the sidewalk with an open container (Bottle, Can, etc)? I think everybody knows the answer to this question, NO! What I find very bizarre that an event such as a victory over UNC in a basketball game gives people the mindset or what they think is "Their Right" to break the law. Just because everybody else is "Doing It" doesn't give you the right. Use some common sense people! If you would have read the newspaper and made yourself knowledgable prior to the UNC game, you should have known that the police was going to monitor this. ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS PUT THE BEER IN A PAPER OR PLASTIC CUP!!!!!! I live in North Carolina and I even knew to put my beer in a plastic cup. Buy a clue people!
Jayceph: You're a little premature with your thoughts. You weren't there and I wasn't there, but I have had the opportunity to watch the police statement as well as this kids statement. Who do I believe in this situation? I believe the police! A Kid who holds onto a beer bottle and doesn't want to give it up is absolutely idiotic! Also, with 40,000 people roaming the streets, anything can happen and the police officer even stated that he thought they might use it as a weapon. Again, I side with police!
I don't always believe the police are in the "Right", but in this situation they did the right thing. They had a tough job to do and when someone resists or becomes tackled or taken down from behind as you would say, then there probably was some sort of intent from the other party. It's a two way street! A kid saluting a beer bottle to a police officer in public on a street is absolutely a very very very poor decision. PUT IT IN A PLASTIC CUP LIKE IT WAS NOTED IN THE NEWSPAPER THE TWO DAYS PRIOR TO THE GAME!
April 15, 2008 at 4:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kushaw (anonymous) says...
I was also wondering if anybody wanted to join me on Mass Street tomorrow night. I decided that I'm going to take a stroll down Mass St. tomorrow night. I've bought a six pack of Coors Light Bottles and wanted to know if anyone wanted a beer while walking down the street???????? Pretty stupid, huh! You think you'll get arrested or at least an open container citation. Think people!
April 15, 2008 at 4:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
speedy (anonymous) says...
99.9% of the people who attend new years eve in las vegas are aware of the plastic only rules for beverages. i guess lawrence people just not as smart as they used to be.
i have seen people do some stupid things in vegas. climbing light poles and falling off and killing themselves,teens going topless and wondering why they were arrested. police dilib. provoking the crowd by blocking off a sidewalk and daring verbally to anyone to use the sidewalk closed because of something that happened the YEAR before!
just goes to show what alcohol does to people and impares judgement and the police reaction to stupidity.
April 15, 2008 at 5:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ChicagoJHawk (anonymous) says...
No kidding kushaw!! All of you knew you can't have an open container period!
Read the article people, the cop didn't just tackle the guy down and tase him, he warned him several times first! Generally saluting a cop with a bottle of beer isn't the brightest idea. Before you get on this message board and disagree with me, think about that long and hard first.
JayCeph, seriously, you're comparing this to the Jews that died in concentration camps in world war 2. Um, those Jews were killed just for being Jewish & were discriminated against unfairly which makes it wrong. This guy was breaking the law & refused to cooperate with the cops, there's a slight difference there...
Oh, another thing, stop reffering to this guy as a kid. He's freaking 32 years old, which is what makes it even worse.
April 15, 2008 at 5:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kushaw (anonymous) says...
Jayceph: Your anaology in comparing this to the World War II era and the discrimination against the jews is quite ignorant. Think about that for a minute! What an anaology to use at this time. LMAO! I think I would stop while you yourself might get Tazed.
April 15, 2008 at 6:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
doctorWho (anonymous) says...
The fact that this crap article was published is just a sign that the NCAA basketball season is indeed over.
April 15, 2008 at 6:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
RckChalkJeff (anonymous) says...
This was stupid on Yorks part...but Cops are pricks. Most are arrogant egotistical a$$holes.
April 15, 2008 at 7:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jcsmith (anonymous) says...
First of all, as you can see in the video, there were cans all over mass st. hell, you see people in the crowd with them. So if this man was guilty of breaking a law, then I guess prob 30 or so thousand others monday night were guilty as well.
Second of all, all of you saying he was in the wrong for having an open container in public, watch the video again. He states the bottle was not even open. THIS IS NOT A CRIME. This is no worse then buying a bottle of wine and carrying it to your car.
Third, the cop states that the reason he reacted the way he did was because he felt the bottle was going to be thrown at him. NOT because he was stopping the guy from taking the bottle uptown. This seems a little rash to me. Not sure how raising a bottle in rejoice can appear so violent. Unless he drew his arm back like he was pitching a baseball, I dont see any imminent danger.
Fact of the matter is, cops overreacted, and the dude should have done what was asked of him.
The police should have told him the circumstances for needing to get rid of his bottle, and he should have kindly complied.
April 15, 2008 at 7:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lmateo1 (anonymous) says...
you know what i say... "f--- the police"
i hate cops. seriously. this guy being dumb or not, 95% of cops are just losers on a power trip. im sure there was a more effective way of fixing the situation than tasing him. cops make me sick. and thats coming from someone who has never been arrested or even had a slight run in with the law. the cop should be tased back, twice.
April 15, 2008 at 7:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KURUSH1530 (anonymous) says...
How in the world is this situation getting compared to Hitler's reign in Germany? And that's the person who said they were embarassed by everyone else posting, haha. I saw thousands of other people along Mass. who went through this same situation (no in depth explanation of why they were confiscating bottles/cans)and people that were TRASHED immediately gave up whatever they had in their hand. Yeah, i hope this guy gets an attorney and waste his money fighting a case he can't win. I will feel even more for this guy's pain. Cops are who they are because they deal with the worst of the worst. You don't like what you're getting arrested for take it to your state government.
April 15, 2008 at 8:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FortWorthJayhawk (anonymous) says...
The guy was a moron for not complying but the taser is becoming a first resort for law enforcement instead of one of the last. It is not a non-lethal weapon. It is a LESS-leathal weapon. People have been killed on numerous instances by the use of a taser. Couldn't this idiot have been restrained without it's use? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes...
April 15, 2008 at 9:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
OmahaKUAlum (anonymous) says...
Wow, JayCeph...are you serious? How embarrassing to compare this situation to the Holocaust and act like that's no big deal! That's absolutely unacceptable and completely ignorant.
Did the cop use excessive force by tasering this guy? Maybe. But cops don't have the luxury of reading a person's mind to know what they are going to do next. Is this guy an idiot for thinking it's okay to walk around with an open container and break the law, and then refuse to comply with a law enforcement officer? Yes! Yes, obviously, other people were doing it as well, but does that make it legal? No. And I personally read in more than one place that cops would be lenient with those who had alcohol in plastic cups, but they would not tolerate cans or bottles in the celebrations. It's hard to feel sorry for a 32 year old (not "a kid' as a lot of people are saying) who was breaking the law and defying a cop.
April 15, 2008 at 10:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
afischer2 (anonymous) says...
I know Matt Heffley, he's a huge KU fan. I think he's a grad. Probably killed him to have to tase a fellow KU'er
April 15, 2008 at 10:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
didjabuti (anonymous) says...
I would think that as a police officer I would want to lessen the possibility for any confrontation/violence. Pretty sure that "No cans or bottles, sorry" would work pretty good. As opposed to just telling him to get rid of it then trying to take it. The officers force caused York's reaction. Not placing blame on the officer, I've just met a few that know how to talk to people and many, many, many, many, many, many more that do not and don't seem interested in trying. They think that because they are law enforcement that you should do whatever they say and not question it. And if you do then you are a threat to them. This goes right into what JayCeph was talking about, which is not that tasing and genocide are the same thing. He did not compare actions. He was trying to illustrate where an UNQUESTIONING compliance or obedience could lead over time. (not to put words in your mouth, feel free to correct me)
April 16, 2008 at 3:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JayCeph (anonymous) says...
didjabuti~ Reason has spoken and it's name is thee.
For those who think I was ignorant in my analogy, then perhaps you should study history a little closer. Should I have used Serbia as an example instead? Kent State? Mamadou Diallo?
This issue isn't about an 'open container' and whether or not is legal to walk around downtown with alcohol (both of which are against the law) yet I don't see a public outcry for the tasering of thousands of revelers as a result.
OmahaKUAlum~ since you are so certain that cops can't be held accountable for reading people's minds, then how is it they are tasked with charging people for 'intent.' You argument is specious.
For those of you that would just passively allow a stranger to come up to you and grab (forcefully) something out of your hand without so much as a 'what for,' and then celebrate the situation that resulted in a beating, perhaps the days of Krystal Nacht are not so far behind us... (yes, sheep!)
April 16, 2008 at 12:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )