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James comes up big for Texas
They say everything is bigger in Texas, and that includes Damion James' second half performance in the Longhorns' victory over Kansas.
Reader poll
Which of the Top 5 teams in the AP Poll right now do you think has the best chance to win the NCAA title?
- Memphis 10% 138 votes
- Duke 14% 192 votes
- Kansas 67% 888 votes
- Tennessee 2% 29 votes
- North Carolina 5% 78 votes
1325 total votes.
A calm, rational Hawk Talk radio show caller stumped Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self for a second on Tuesday night.
"What would be a good way for me to say this without headlines tomorrow in the paper?" Self, said, thinking out loud when asked by a fan if there was a "common thread" in KU's two losses this season.
"I'd say competitive plays - 50-50 balls. Who is quicker to balls, hitting somebody on a blockout? To me those are 'manly' plays," Self said, still steamed at his Jayhawks getting 'outmanned' in the second half of Monday's 72-69 loss at Texas.
He also felt KU lost most of the hustle plays in an 85-74 loss to Kansas State on Jan. 30 in Manhattan.
"You can't play the game well unless you are tough, getting 70 percent of those 50-50 balls and limiting layups of other teams. We were outquicked to balls and did a poor job (of) rotation rebounding," Self said.
"It goes to toughness-type plays. Our skillset of what we are doing is not poor. The fact we got outplayed in physical areas is what bothers me the most."
He was just getting started discussing KU's toughness quotient in its two losses, as compared to strong effort in the squad's 23 victories.
"You go on the road, you don't always shoot well. You often don't shoot as many free throws. A lot of things can happen. The thing that stood out : they (Longhorns) had a 6-foot-1 2-guard get more offensive rebounds than our team did the entire second half. That can't happen if you want to have a ballclub do special things," Self said.
Self was referring to 6-2 sophomore Justin Mason grabbing five offensive rebounds the second half to the Jayhawks' two. In all, Texas outrebounded KU, 23-12, the second half. KU won the board war the first half, 23-13, and led by four at the break.
"Our energy level was good against Texas. We played our butts off the first half," Self said. "Our rebounding the first half was as good as it's been all year. The second half was as poor as it's been all year. The second half they controlled us from a physical standpoint on the glass."
UT's Damion James, a 6-7 sophomore who played just three minutes the first half because of foul problems, grabbed 13 boards and scored 12 points the second stanza.
"It's a lot easier to rebound when you are out there jumping by yourself, to put it plain and simple. He is a good player and rebounder, but we definitely helped him," Self said.
So upset was Self at the second-half rebounding, he scheduled an evening practice Tuesday to focus on boardwork.
"We will practice two hours exactly. We will shoot 10 minutes. There will be 110 minutes working on blocking out or some form of defense on a block out," Self said. "At this time of year, you shouldn't have to spend that much time on that particular area. That's what we need to do."
Self said he didn't want to take away from the fact the No. 11-ranked Longhorns (20-4, 7-2) played well and deserved to win Monday.
Yet ...
"To say we laid an egg would be way too strong," Self said. "Saying we played poorly would take away from the other team. Playing the No. 11 team on the road : they have good players, and good players make plays.
"(But) we didn't compete on the boards the second half. Watching tape was the most frustrating to me. Our first-shot defense the second half was 6-for-21. You force a team to shoot 6-for-21, that's 28 percent on the home team's floor, and we still lose the basketball game. It wasn't defense. It was our ability to secure after the misses."
Self said he wasn't overly distraught 6-10 Connor Atchley hit four threes in four tries the first half.
"Although we didn't defend it great, I could live with three of them," Self said. "On one of them, 'Shady' (Darrell Arthur) overshadowed on a ball screen going away from the basket. It was contested, and he made it. One ball inside we overdove, and they threw it back out. One of 'em we dared him to shoot. As a coach, (part of) the game plan is, 'Whatever you do, don't give easy looks.' We dared him to make one. That bothers you."
KU will meet Colorado at 12:45 p.m. Saturday at Allen Fieldhouse. The Jayhawks outrebounded the Buffs, 34-21, in a 72-59 victory on Feb. 2 in Boulder.
Comments
dagger108 (anonymous) says...
Since there has been plenty of talk about the '88 team lately, let's interject a bit of them here. Interesting point with that team was them losing som many players thru the season that they didn't have enough to scrimmage mid-season so Larry went to the FB team and recruited. Clnt Normore is still one of my favorites. I love his block/mugging of Grant in the NC game - like a WR on a crossing route.
Maybe Bill could recruit a team of FB players for rebounding drills without whistles.
February 13, 2008 at 6:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
1977kufan (anonymous) says...
Super article, Gary. Coach Self is exactly right (sorry to sound like a broken record, but I wrote this yesterday). One major reason that we lost that game was two shorthorns got running Os (I type offensive as O) rebounds--too many guys were watching the ball in flight and not boxing out. The crowd from the Outback (sometimes called Austin) loved those boards and I personally hated those boards. I want to stop at this point, because I am still livid over our performance in the second half on the O and D ends. Rock Chalk, Jayhawks!!!
February 13, 2008 at 7:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chuckberry32 (anonymous) says...
Based on the article and Self comments, hopefully this problem will be rectified soon. As I said yesterday, it's only one game and doesn't really matter so long as we fix it!
February 13, 2008 at 7:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DCJayhawk0208 (anonymous) says...
Good point, '77.
I was thinking about this game last night, and the occasional lack of focus this season, mainly against good competition ('Zona, the spurt in the 2nd half against BC when they made a serious run, KSU, and UT), and I remembered a story I read during the 2004 tournament. Self was concerned about UAB after they beat Kentucky in the 2nd round because of Anderson's defense (when he has a full complement--wait two more years and MU will be insanely fast)...
...So he practiced 5 on 6, which made our guys work that much harder for passes, shots and rebounds. It seems like running that again in practice might be a way to sharpen the focus.
February 13, 2008 at 7:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chuckberry32 (anonymous) says...
Hannah was just kicked of the MU team!!!
February 13, 2008 at 7:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jayhawkinatl (anonymous) says...
OK, now that the problem has been identified, rectify it!!!! Git 'r dun!!!!
February 13, 2008 at 7:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
halogenlamps (anonymous) says...
I totally agree 1977KuFan. I don't know how many times (but definitely more than one or two) we would sit and wait for the rebound to come to us instead of going after the ball, and a Texas guy would swoop in and get the rebound. I was screaming at the television for our guys to go after rebounds rather than just wait. It was super frustrating.
February 13, 2008 at 7:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mvjayhawk (anonymous) says...
I think one game in 11 days will help us. it's our longest stretch of the season post Christmas, without hardly any games. i believe it will help us recharge our batteries, and get better with these fundamentals. because that's what we're talking about here.....keeping people off of the offensive glass is a bball fundamental, that we MUST improve on and be good at. We're a very talented team.....but as a group, they must know fundamentals of the game have to be executed well....or we won't have the chance to win a championship. I know this veteran team knows this...but it must be committed to, on the court.
February 13, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
Ive been saying a couple of things that I am glad to see Coach Self confirm.
1. First half performance needed to improve. In the four-game stretch of KSU, CU, Mizzou and Baylor, Kansas came out flat in the first half. In the Texas game, however, we got a good first half performance and to me that was a good sign. Actually this observation is based on what we did OFFENSIVELY.
2. Perimeter defense was poor in the first half, but was good in the second half. Therefore, it can be settled upon that our first half offense was good, and our second half defense was good (unfortunately, the converse of these statements is also true). We have to put all phases of the game together for forty minutes and the wins will take care of themselves.
As an aside, there is no reason to give up on the Jayhawks. Remember, we lost 10 games the year we won it all, and later in the NCAA tournament we avenged some losses. We might be headed there again. Look at Florida last year who suffered some losses before winning it all. And I like the fact that we havent lost to teams on the order of last years ORU. The games we've lost have been to respectable (and ranked) teams.
We still need to prove to ourselves we can win the BIG games.
February 13, 2008 at 8:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
swishymcjayhawk (anonymous) says...
great article, Gary. I was feeling the same way watching the UT game, so I'm glad Coach Self saw what was wrong and acted accordingly. I just hope things get repaired effectively before tournament time.
February 13, 2008 at 8:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jpstrayer (anonymous) says...
Rebounding is mostly attitude...to me it seemed that UT wanted the game more...which I find very disturbing...how much desire do the players have? The seem to talk a good game in quotes, etc. But against tought competition, it doesn't seem to show.
You all can say "its just one game" but it wasn't...the KSU game was the same, so it wasn't "one game". And a butt kicking to the CU Buffs won't get rid of the bad taste in my mouth. KU needs to step it up against everyone, not just the poor non-con and Big XII patsies.
Again...KU has no victories against current top 25 type talent. At some point you need to step up to the competition.
February 13, 2008 at 8:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eastTXjayhawk (anonymous) says...
let me be the first to say, great article gary.....
February 13, 2008 at 8:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justanotherfan (anonymous) says...
At this time last year the University of Florida Gators were mired in a three game losing skid. Even though they were the defending champions, there was talk that they had lost focus and weren't ready for the tournament. Some six weeks later they had won 10 in a row, an SEC title and another national championship.
February 13, 2008 at 8:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
eastTX...
you were actually the SECOND. *laughs*
Gary Bedore is a great writer, possibly the best here.
February 13, 2008 at 8:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
eastTX....actually the THIRD!
February 13, 2008 at 8:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nocaljayhawk (anonymous) says...
Expanding a bit on DC0208--I've been waiting to hear about a Self holding a defense- and rebounding-only practice, one held without any basketballs present...perhaps with football pads involved...that's what I think these guys needs, especially considering there are only two games in the next 10 or so days.
And I'd love to see the "step on their throat" mentality reinforced.
February 13, 2008 at 8:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KGphoto (anonymous) says...
"Super article Gary" 1977kufan
"great article, Gary" swishymcjayhawk
Are you guys for real? You sound like the Ambiguously Gay Duo! Are you trying to get a date with Gary? Seriously, 90% of the article is in quotation marks. It's not a bad article, it's just a bunch of quotes.
February 13, 2008 at 8:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dogsong (anonymous) says...
KGPhoto, I was actually typing the exact same thing when I saw your comment above. The funny part is, it actuallly is the best article Gary or anyone else on the starff has put together in a looooong time. That's what the LJW come to, putting so much garbage out that readers applaud them when they are able to successfully transer a bunch of quotes from a press conference to the internet correctly. Bravo, Journal World! Bravo!
February 13, 2008 at 8:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jaybate (anonymous) says...
Teams take on the characters of their head coaches.
If KU is not tough enough, if KU is being outmanned, the teacher and coach Bill Self has to look in the mirror first.
Either he is tough enough and not communicating his toughness to these players, or he is not tough enough.
Last season, there came a moment in the season when Bill Self practically went out on the floor to fight. From that moment on, KU's players believed in their coach. They believed he would "outman" another coach, or referee, or player, or anyone. From that moment, KU was not outmanned again. I do not believe those kinds of moments can be manufactured. But we lack one of those moments this season. Probably Bill Self thought he had proven his toughness to his team last season. Well, coach, you have to prove it EVERY season.
Last off season, or early this season, Jo Jo White was interviewed and asked about Bill Self. White said Self was a good recruiter and a smart coach, but he said it remained to be seen whether he was tough enough to produce a champion.
White played for a good man at KU named Ted Owens. Owens was a good teacher of Bruce Drake ball, and he was a tireless worker and giving human being. But Owens was not tough enough at his core to produce a champion, even when he had the goods. This not a knock on Owens. Most coaches are not tough enough. To be a champion, you have to be, among other things, monomaniacal in your focus and you can let nothing and no one stand between you and taking the ring. This usually involves doing some very cruel things that many persons are not capable of doing.
Ask Larry Brown, who has dumped everyone and everything that would not advance him to the rings he wanted.
Ask Roy Williams who was even willing to make a liar and a heel out of himself in order to get what he wanted the way he wanted it, so he could get the ring.
February 13, 2008 at 9:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jaybate (anonymous) says...
But back to White. White also played for the Celtics, as a pro. And he won two rings. And his leadership included Red Auerbach and Coach Tom Heinsohn. Two more relentless champions you could never find than these men. White knows what he's talking about. He's played on both sides of the champions divide.
Champions WILL do ANYTHING to be champions. It is not admirable. It is not pretty. John Wooden was about the most dignified of champions, but he looked the other way while Sam Gilbert saw to it the talent arrived in loads. And Wooden left a wake of fine young talent benched and marginalized, because it could not conform to his monomaniacal approach.
Bill Self has evidenced some of this, of course, but so far it has been aimed more at securing his position as head coach than actually aimed at winning a ring.
Sometimes Coach Self exudes the sense that winning a ring is just a lucky by product of hard work and a load of good players.
There is something more than luck and talented players involveed, however.
Many fine coaches have had fine players and luck and not won a ring.
There is the core of forged steel that is a prerequisite--a core that must be communicated to those that follow you into competition, or battle.
I'm not even sure I want Coach Self to have this forged steel core. I like him and I like the KU basketball program the way it is.
But at the same time, if Coach Self is going to criticize the team for being outmanned, there is a mirror in the coach's lockerroom, too.
February 13, 2008 at 9:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
swishymcjayhawk (anonymous) says...
KGPhoto - It was an interesting article in that it was a good read. i guess you have nothing better to do than sling insults at fellow Jayhawk fans.
February 13, 2008 at 9:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bobsarobot (anonymous) says...
i think coach self is steering this team perfectly. he's getting them back to the basics on rebounding and toughness. we have the talent, we have the desire, we have a great shot at winning it all. i don't think we need to see bill self stare down and wrestle lute olson (who has a ring and exudes very little "toughness") in order to solidify the team into a lean, mean, fighting machine. executing and taking care of the little details and playing to the best of our abilities should suffice. although i would really like to see bill self with rick majerus in a headlock.
February 13, 2008 at 9:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KUMatt2001 (anonymous) says...
Well said Jaybate.
It's a bit disturbing to hear that Self thinks the reason we lose is because we're not outhustling the other team and not coming up with more than 50% of the "50-50 balls."
So to ever win the tournament, we've got to get to the loose balls quicker than the other team for six straight games? Give me f*%king break! I hate to break the news, but there are five other guys on that court, and sometimes they want to win pretty bad too!
He's beginning to sound just like Herm Edwards!
February 13, 2008 at 9:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KUMatt2001 (anonymous) says...
Or maybe I should read into it and see that as just a vanilla answer that doesn't put blame on anyone, including himself.
February 13, 2008 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KUbsee69 (anonymous) says...
Jaybate - A point of emphasis with the zebras this year was to control the coaches. Coach Self has had to keep that in mind to avoid technicals. An occasional technical has its place, but unless any of us is at all the team gatherings and practice sessions, I'm not sure we are in the position to question Self's toughness.
I sometimes wonder if NBA futures don't play a large role in player effort and toughness. Some "tough" players play like there is no tommorrow, because for many, there isn't. But if a player is an NBA prospect, the player has to consider the present and future.
For example, Darnell's vast improvement may now be being tempered by the rise in his NBA stock. He's become a very good player and is obviously one whale of a young man. But, I perceive that he's spending less time on the floor and may have backed off a little since his NBA prospects have risen.
The NBA prospects, and to state the obvious like Keegan ... we have a veritable plethora of them, probably think about possible injuries and about an injury's effect on their future career. I would think Rush thinks about his injury's effect often, and I think that has to effect his play, sometimes.
Jerod Hasse was often praised for his floor burns, hence the name of his book. While I'd like to see the current 'Hawks get more floor burns, I also can understand how having so many NBA prospects might introduce the "futures" factor.
February 13, 2008 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KU (anonymous) says...
jaybate, I think there is a lot of truth in your post.
I think Coach Self is a great man. I think he treats his kids with respect and really loves them. He's a very likable human being.
I also think we've seen Coach Self is tough. He was a tough player. We admired his tough Illinois squads from a distance and even got hammered by one of them. We all lauded how much tougher Self's team (an extension of him) was than Roy's team (an extension of Roy).
I think Self is tougher than Roy. Roy won the national championship at UNC with tough players that were recruited by someone else that didn't need him to be tough. Roy has never recruited particularly tough players himself. (Of course there are exceptions.)
I think you can see on Coach Self's face during some timeouts that he is torn between being a great, likable human being and the tough, in-your-face coach that he needs to be. It looks like he tempers his tyrades because he's nice. He doesn't want to tear down his players.
I face the same turmoil as a parent. There are times when you HAVE to be the bad guy to bring out the best in your kids....whether they are your biological kids or your basketball players.
February 13, 2008 at 9:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jcepp (anonymous) says...
A few observations:
1. Coaching. I think Barnes made a good adjustment after getting pounded on the boards in the first half. I think he sent five guys to the glass said KU fast break be damned. Our bigs seemed to box out, but the other guys "swooping" in killed us. How many swoops does it take before you grab your guards and say, "Box out?" Barnes adjusted and it seems like Self did not re-adjust.
Also, running a play on the first possession of the 2nd half that puts your star player in danger of picking up a screening foul does not seem to smart to me. The refs had to have made some point about it, 'cause they called one on TX the next play.
2. Getting 'speeded-up.' During the scoring drought of the 2nd half, RussRob took a long, unguarded three early in the shot clock, Arthur took a 19 footer early in the shot clock. Rush pulled up on a break to take a three w/o anyone underneath. Colllins rushed a penetration move and left the ball short of the rim. DJack got an offensive rebound and threw up an off balance spinner when we had a new shot clock. Does the team not believe that they can get a good look late in the clock. They usually do.
3. What is our bread and butter? I don't mean who is gonna take the last shot. I mean what are we gonna run over and over in key situations. I know what K-State's gonna do. Clear out for Beastly, with plan B being Walker. TX is gonna drive A'stine, get fouled or pitch to Abrams. You hear the talking heads mention our 7 scoring leaders, as a good thing, but it hurts us when the other team just put on a 7 point run and we are all lookin around for somebody else to end it.
4. Where is the defensive intensity that leads to our own big runs?
The hawks are in for another good run, but they have work to do.
Rock Chalk.
February 13, 2008 at 10:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
Lots of provoking opinions and insights in this thread...
First, to KGPhoto and dogsong: Though you werent clearly directing your comments to ME with regard to Gary Bedore, my synopsis comes not just from this article but from a body of work. Secondly, with specific regard to this article, stringing quotes together to make a story also requires an artistic flare. Gary Bedore is an excellent beat writer. I dont know whether you agree with that or not, but Ill leave that for you to adress if you so choose.
With regard to Coach Self: I hate to say anything negative about the man. Maybe Jaybate makes a good point though. My thoughts go do the line in the movie "...attitude reflects leadership". If we're not "...tough enough", maybe that's a coaching issue. Ill leave it at that.
February 13, 2008 at 10:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KUMatt2001 (anonymous) says...
One question about jcepp's number 1 point.
You think Barnes made a coaching adjustment at halftime to get more rebounds. Self said that he told his players at halftime that Texas was going to focus on rebounds and they needed to box out more.
My question is, did Self make a coaching adjustment, or did he simply tell his players to box out?
I agree that it's improtant to be tough, play hard, be aggressive, etc, but if you don't put your players in the best situations to do so (with coaching strategy and play-calling), you're only going to get so far.
February 13, 2008 at 10:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KUMatt2001 (anonymous) says...
All you have to do is look at our football team.
Was our success last season a result of outhustling and being tougher than our opponents?
February 13, 2008 at 10:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
in_a_RUSH25 (anonymous) says...
Abrams is a monkey.
February 13, 2008 at 10:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
beebe1 (anonymous) says...
Yeah, rebounding is a problem. But if in the final minutes, one or more of our guards had not grabbed the ball, dribbled for the rim, and had them take it away from him -- we would have won.
February 13, 2008 at 11:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
in a Rush...
Knowing that the term "monkey" has been used perjoratively to draw parallels to the features of African Americans, and knowing that you are making that statement with reference to a black athlete, I think you could be a little more clear about what you mean--even if your statement was made innocently.
February 13, 2008 at 11:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
beebe1 (anonymous) says...
Yeah, I agree with no perjorative comments, and I'm not sure who the heck Abrams is. These columns are not appropriate for any kinds of racial bias, and especially not in KS.
February 13, 2008 at 11:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tis4tim (anonymous) says...
jross,
By my count, it is the second time in_a_RUSH25 has spewed the term 'monkey' in reference to a black athlete. The first was deleted.
There may have been some ambiguity surrounding the first instance, but contextually it was enough to get the comment removed. That should have been the warning shot across the bow that we won't tolerate that kind of epithetical garbage on this board.
February 13, 2008 at 12:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eastTXjayhawk (anonymous) says...
what? i wasn't first...or second...my bad...
and i think IAR25 is spewing it all over the board, including one Duke comment...grain of salt.
i've had to deal with getting beat by TU for two days now, the fans come out of the woodwork when they win...i sure hope we get a chance for revenge in the B12 tournament.
February 13, 2008 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eastTXjayhawk (anonymous) says...
"Ask Roy Williams who was even willing to make a liar and a heel out of himself in order to get what he wanted the way he wanted it, so he could get the ring."
Good pun
February 13, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
smitty33 (anonymous) says...
Nice call jross and tis policing this site. I really enjoy resectfully analyzing our Hawks on this 'intelligent' board:) IN a RUSH needs to go back to the Mizzou site and talk about Hannah and Ricky Clemens. Stay away from here!
I hope you're all feeling better a few days after the loss as I am. I think the KSU game on March 1st at home is a HUGE game for us to rebuild our swagger. March 1st... good time of the year to begin our 'streak'.
I must also chime out against seemingly anti-KU people on here that say we haven't beaten 'anybody'. I like how KU argued that big wins by other teams were over 'Xavier, Marquette, Washington St, etc.' WOW.
I think all intelligent people here and in the country know KU is a top 10 contender, period. Our schedule is as good as any. We just need to iron out a few problems before March. Don't you think most teams feel the same?
Also, to the guy crying we haven't won a championship since '88... quit your whining. I'm sure you'll want Self's head on a stick if we don't win it all this year. We have had many fantastic tourney games since 88 and have a good chance AGAIN this year to make a run.
-Rock Chalk
February 13, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KUMatt2001 (anonymous) says...
If we don't make the Final Four, this team underachieved.
February 13, 2008 at 1:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justanotherfan (anonymous) says...
A point about rebounding...
Rebounding isn't about strategy. It's about boxing out and pursuing the basketball. There isn't a whole lot of coaching to it. When a shot goes up, you box your man and then go get the basketball.
Second, as to the bread and butter...
I have been saying for a while that we need to decide what we are going to do in a pinch. Every other team knows what they are going to go to. We might go to Sherron, or Mario, or Darrell, or Darnell, or Brandon. We never know in a pinch, when we need a basket, whether to start a run or end one, who should get the ball. We need to find that identity, soon. The '88 team had Danny. When we needed a bucket, we went to Danny.
Lastly, to in_a_RUSH...
I said this the last time you made that type of reference, I will say it once more, and only once more. That type of statement is unacceptable on this message board. That does not represent what KU is about, what KU fans are about, or bring anything to the discussion. DO NOT post anything like that again.
February 13, 2008 at 1:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
tis...
you have earned my respect, bro. what I respect about you is that I can disagree, even vehemently, on basketball in these posts, but when it comes down to right on wrong on basic human issues we can set those differences aside and come to rational agreement.
Its too bad things like this even rear their heads on these boards. Id rather just limit the discussion to BASKETBALL! In either case, youre a true Hawk fan!
to smitty33. thanks for the props. if I ever cut out of line, promise me youll put me in check.
Rock Chalk
February 13, 2008 at 1:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
97jhawk (anonymous) says...
In defense of some of the players, which by no means is an excuse but could explain their 2nd half timid play on the boards, is that a number of the guys had 3 or 4 fouls and they were probably worried about fouling out. It's something they can't be worrying about as it will change their aggressiveness under the hoop. I wouldn't be surprised if some of that came into play. The same held true during the KSU game. Hmmm, I think I see the culprit. I think Hightower ref'd on both those games. Didn't he?
Kidding aside, I think it's just as much braun as it could brain with these guys. The rebounding is fundamental and this far into the season they shouldn't have to be practicing it that much. It should be a natural reaction. I think it's coaching.
Self really needs to bring out the "evil" or "monster" in some of these guys. Find the "Jeff Graves" within themselves and play to win, not lose!!
February 13, 2008 at 1:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KU (anonymous) says...
smitty33......You're calling ME out as "anti-KU" for claiming that KU's best win (which is it.....Arizona? USC?) doesn't compare with other teams' wins over the likes of Xavier, Marquette or Washington State??
Watch much basketball?
First of all, 2 of those 3(Marquette, and WSU) were on the low end of the "impressive win scale" compared to some of the other wins the top teams have garnered this year. But all 3 are as impressive or more impressive than KU's MOST impressive wins.
Just because I point out the obvious fact that KU hasn't beaten anybody impressive doesn't mean I'm anti-KU.
February 13, 2008 at 2:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jhawkerman (anonymous) says...
I totally agree with the comment that rebounding is a lot about attitude! .. You have to want to blockout. You have to want to Jump. You have to want to move your feet to get around the defense and not just stand behind the other teams player. ... You have to WANT it !!!I hope this lesson was learned and we dont have to visit it again this year. A Team can sometimes not Want it enough to work for it... I hope we WANT IT NOW !!!
February 13, 2008 at 2:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jayhawkinatl (anonymous) says...
KUMatt2001...agreed...no Final Four means FAILURE as far as I'm concerned. Self needs to rid himself of The-Best-Coach-to-never-make-it-to-a-Final Four label THIS year!!!!
February 13, 2008 at 2:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
smitty33 (anonymous) says...
KU,
If you're not anti-KU, stop trying to convince us fans that we're no good and haven't proven anything this year.
I've watched plenty of basketball and am impressed by a only a few teams this year as opposed to past years. Just look at the AP top 15 now. Butler, Xavier, and Drake??!!! Tennessee, NC, UCLA, and Memphis schedules are no more impressive than ours. The Big 10 is way down this year. Duke and Texas schedules look a little better than most to give them credit.
Again, who cares as long as we're a top 10 team??
I thought 'we beat no-one' rants were over after the Orange Bowl. That mainly came from anti-KU fans. You may not be anti-KU, but you need to be quiet while you're so pessimistic. When we win it all this year, you must agree to apologize on here every day for a year.
My top teams:
1. Duke
2. NC with Lawson back
3. KU
4. UCLA
5. Memphis
6. Texas
7. KSU
8. Tennessee
9. Gtown
After that, I think there's a BIG drop off.
I'm looking forward to some big matchups this month:
Duke/UNC
Memphis/Tenn
KU/KSU
KSU/Texas
97Hawk - Love to see Graves name again. Loved that Haas. I think Jackson is our man and needs to play big in big games. I also think we agree to give Mario the ball in a crunch. Someone tell Arthur, Collins, and Robinson to give it up.
February 13, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alexwishart (anonymous) says...
Duke #1? please!
February 13, 2008 at 3:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KU (anonymous) says...
As much as I dislike Duke, I have to agree that Duke is playing the best right now. They are playing smart, they're playing with heart, they're playing with defined roles, they know their limitations and do a great job playing to their strengths. They play ferocious perimeter defense to compensate for their lack of inside presence. Their spread-the-florr, drive and finish/kick for 3 offense works with their particular toolbox of skills.
February 13, 2008 at 3:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
RedJay (anonymous) says...
The kids know how to box out. We've all seen every one of them do it. It's not that they don't know how, problem is they don't want to, or at least they don't want to as bad as KSU and UT want to.
Nobody can outrebound our big fellas IF they want the ball bad enough. Just like nobody can stop BRush off the dribble if he ever desired to drive the lane.
We don't seem to have a fire for those things right now. Doesn't it seem like we're always playing a basketball version of football's Prevent D?
It starts with Self. He needs to get pissed. If a player is not paying attention, put him on the bench to think about it. I would bench Rush every time he goes three touches without a shot or assist. Self must make it known that if you don't want to be out there, you won't be.
If we EVER start playing some seriously pissed off basketball, the way other teams play when KANSAS comes to town, no team in the NCAA will be as talented.
February 13, 2008 at 3:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jhawkerman (anonymous) says...
Knowing Self after his 2hr practice I am confident that KU is #1 now. Ok Ok ... so I am pregidous (and hopeful too)
February 13, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KU (anonymous) says...
Rush isn't the kind of kid that's going to respond positively to getting benched, in my opinion. He's a "pleaser" except when it comes to pleasing others by standing out as a star player. Benching him would probably have the opposite effect that you're looking for.
I think one of the reason's Roy's teams were always looking over their shoulder in March was because of his tactic of benching everybody as soon as they made one mistake. I believe Self's philosophy is that you have to play with a "free mind" in order to be great and benching kids for messing up in the flow of the game stifles greatness.
Which way is better? Who knows? It's like asking whether vanilla or chocolate is better. Both men have had terrific regular season basketball teams over time.
February 13, 2008 at 3:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
okjhok (anonymous) says...
We all need to be TTU fans tonite...
February 13, 2008 at 3:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
boomrsoonr26 (anonymous) says...
Did anyone see that Danny Manning was a assitant coach at KU now...wow! Thanks ESPN for finally pointing that out in every game. Sarcasm
February 13, 2008 at 3:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
smitty33 (anonymous) says...
RedJay,
I'm fired up after reading your post. I'm only 5'11", but I'm ready to kick some *ss down low with Jackson. I couldn't agree more, Rush needs to play ANGRY. I vote we make you an assistant.
KU,
good question... a player that screws up... do you bench him or let him play through it? In Collins case, I think you bench him to slow him down. In Rush's case, I think you get in his face then let him play. I guess it depends on who it is.
Alex,
I dislike Duke Fans ALOT, but the 3 games I've seen them play.. wow. Did you see them wax UNC at the Dean dome? I find this hard to believe since they basically sucked last year and lost their best player to the NBA. I think that speaks a ton for coach K. We can beat them, but we'd need to play a great game.
Okj,
3 reasons I can't root for TTU. #1, I'd like KSU to be ranked as high as possible when we beat them. #2, I am actually beginning to root for our neighbor in their only chance in decades to make it far in the tourney (I want to meet them in the Final 8). #3, I can't stand Bob Knight and the program still stinks of his ego.
February 13, 2008 at 3:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NavyHawk (anonymous) says...
RedJay & KU, maybe I'm wrong, but it sure looks to me like Coach Self has done a lot of benching his players when they make a mental mistake. In fact, I've felt that often times he's done it after the player in question has just entered the game and maybe hasn't had time to get into the flow, yet the hook comes out too quickly.
jaybate, I agree that I prefer Self's style of recruiting/coaching to, say, somebody like Quinn Snyder's.
About Ted Owens, I've said it before, he was an outstanding recruiter and so-so coach. I always wanted KU to hire Jack Hartman as co-coach because he always got the best out of mediocre players. Owens/Hartman would have been an incredible combination.
Ted did get to the Final Four but ran into Al McGuire's Marquette Muggers...uh, Warriors. Now, McGuire was another one of those coaches who would do anything to win, just like Digger Phelps & Bobby Knight!
February 13, 2008 at 4:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jhawkerman (anonymous) says...
KU has the talent the problem is we know it. Everyone knows our game plan and its costing us just enough points early to allow teams like KSU and TX to stay ahead in the first half. Then we start the second half the same way .. I love the idea of getting the ball to our big guys, push it inside, get the other guys in foul trouble, BUT its not working. We need a fluid offense. Not a predictable offense.. Everyone knows we are going to spend the first 10 mins of the game getting the ball inside... so they pack it in. We are good enough to get some points but we lose just an many and its hurting our team. How about lets score outside early if they are packing it in on us, instead of beat our heads against a wall of packed in defense every game. We have great shooters and we need to use them, we are getting 3'd to death while we push it in for 2 here and 2 there. Nothing against 2's but lets play against the defense thats put against us. Open up the inside from the outside if thats what the other team is doing.
February 13, 2008 at 4:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KU (anonymous) says...
smitty....I agree about Collins. He needs to sit and cool his jets if he's going to play with that kind of recklessness. He's a good finisher in the lane in transition, but his percentage of finish-to-turnover gets much worse when he's in the half-court and the floor isn't spread. Since we rarely spread our bigs out on the floor, that means virtually ALL the time in the half-court he's a risk to drive.
February 13, 2008 at 4:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
100 (anonymous) says...
Love the idea about bringing some football players and pads to work on boxing out and clamping. As long as we dominate the boards, we are the best team in the country... Self didn't point any fingers, and he shouldn't, but the 6'2" Texas kid getting 5 rebounds in the second half falls on our GUARDS not boxing him out. Each and every position has to do the work. This team is very coachable -- Self will have them right back into it.
February 13, 2008 at 4:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
d_prowess (anonymous) says...
I would like to see Coach Self get a technical next time our team comes out playing flat and slow. I think this would send a message to the team and wake them up.
We have great players, but they don't always play great. Some people point to poor or lack of coaching, but in this case, I really think they just come out expecting to win. This is not something you can game plan away. You need to shock it out of them. The defense orriented practice is a good start, but i think getting a T would go a long way as well.
February 13, 2008 at 5:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
100 (anonymous) says...
Roy used to do something that was fabulous. I'm a high school coach and I have stolen this idea from him. When my starting 5 aren't showing me what they have, I start my second five, just like he used to do.
Actions speak louder than words. No T is needed. Self's glare is more than enough (or lack of, the starting 5 have seen it all year). The second five then get better. And the starters get juiced (and have a chance to study the game TOGETHER). Sometimes the 2nd five play those first few minutes better than the first 5 would have. By the time the 2nd quarter rolls around, I wait to see if the body language of the starters on the bench is where it needs to be to enter the game (i.e. are they ROOTING at the top of their lungs).
Worst case scenario: we lose a game and learn a lesson. Best case scenario: we win that game and don't look sluggish for the next week or so. For Self's team this could be very important considering this lesson needs to come before the NCAA tourney, and he also needs to feel free to yank all 5 for a couple minutes DURING the NCAA tourney if a point is to be made. It will only make us better.
Those 2 minutes of sitting on the bench WITH ALL FIVE, talking only strategy (and maybe a change of), during an NCAA tourney game can be the difference between a loss to Bucknell and a NCAA crown.
February 13, 2008 at 5:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KUMatt2001 (anonymous) says...
So Smitty, you won't care if K State is Big 12 Champs over us? (or co-champs with us?)
February 13, 2008 at 6:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
okjhok (anonymous) says...
My point exactly, Matt...KSU is going to be just fine whether they win tonight or not, but if KU wants to win the B12 outright, KSU needs to lose twice, with one of those coming in L-town. I'm tired of the co-champs BS. We're the best team in the league and should win it.
February 13, 2008 at 6:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kevbo (anonymous) says...
Nice article.
February 13, 2008 at 6:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
in_a_RUSH25 (anonymous) says...
Ku should watch DUKE play watch how to win
February 13, 2008 at 7:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jhawkerman (anonymous) says...
If I had one wish it would be KU vs Duke in the finals .. I love our matchup posibilities agains Duke ( Yes I know its way to early ... but just thinking ahead ) ... and of course keeping a positive attitude ....
February 13, 2008 at 7:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
didjabuti (anonymous) says...
I agree with those about Roys substitution methods. I was actually going to write about it myself, but you beat me to it. Two things I miss from Roys teams - Half court trap, and 5-for-5 substitutions. The thing I always liked about the half court trap was that everybody knew we were going to do it, but it was still effective.
February 13, 2008 at 7:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tis4tim (anonymous) says...
jross,
Thanks for the kind words.
I don't claim to know the X's and O's of the game quite like yourself and some of the others on this board, but I do love to watch KU basketball when they're on in my neck of the woods, having grown up in Kansas. I enjoy coming here and reading the keen insights that long time KU fans who are closer to the action have to offer.
What I appreciate here is the opportunity to offer an opinion or two and to engage in a somewhat spirited discussion from time to time without the name calling and the other junk that is so prevalent on most message boards.
I know you and I have disagreed on certain viewpoints, but we hash, rehash, put it aside, get up the next day and do it all over again, hopefully with a little more knowledge and understanding than we had the day before.
I know you don't need anyone to go to bat for you, but it's sometimes good to know that others may feel as you do about things besides the fact that we all love Kansas basketball.
I'm happy to have earned my jross merit badge.
Rock Chalk, man.
February 13, 2008 at 8:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
OmahaKUAlum (anonymous) says...
Jhawkerman, did you not watch the game? Our bigs dominated in the first half (which may have been partially because James was on the bench in foul trouble). But that's what was working! When we starting going away from getting the ball inside in the second half, that's when the game fell apart. Our guards looked awful, especially in the second half. I hope they get it corrected. But I think our offense works best when we work the ball through our big guys, especially in the high low set. Even if it's predictable, most of the time it's effective! Look at Duke...they spread the floor and drive and dish...it's predictable, but it works! I agree with most people that Texas just seemed to want it more. Rebounding is about attitude and discipline. Hopefully our guys wake up and start playing with a little more drive and passion! I think all these problems are correctable, and if it takes this loss to fix these problems, then that's that. Let's fix these issues and continue to improve! Rock Chalk!
February 13, 2008 at 8:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
tis...
Two quick things. First, youve earned your blue feathers with the spirit of your post. Not because of kind remarks you offered on my behalf; but because you show wisdom and strength of character with your words. Secondly, you needn't seek a "merit badge" from me. I am not vain enough to think myself worthy of offering one. I will allow myself to glory on one particular thing, however. That I have been a faithful Jayhawk fan for over 30 years and I have loved every moment of it. Even during tough losses, Id rather be experiencing anguish on behalf of the Crimson and Blue than to blather on in vain for any other institution. I know you feel the same.
So here's to future discussions, whether they be agreements or points of contention. Hail to Old KU!!!
Rock Chalk
February 13, 2008 at 9:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CaramelMacchMan (anonymous) says...
hahaha KSU is being smoked by TxTech... i mean smoked..........
February 13, 2008 at 9:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eastTXjayhawk (anonymous) says...
good news, ed hightower hates all of kansas, so he's putting the kaibosh on kstate as well.....oh nice, young from kstate just threw a punch
February 13, 2008 at 9:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CaramelMacchMan (anonymous) says...
I knew it... i think i shouldn't have made my comment cuz now they are only 8 points behind
February 13, 2008 at 9:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eastTXjayhawk (anonymous) says...
ron burgandy....i mean ed hightower is down.....
February 13, 2008 at 9:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GitS (Christian Hinton) says...
Did anyone notice that Markeiff Morris is one of the players Indiana's coaching staff is accused of calling in violation of NCAA rules?
The NCAA Notice of Allegations to Indiana can be read at:
http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/0...
Small world! And for all that they didn't even get him...
February 13, 2008 at 10:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jhawkdan42 (anonymous) says...
what a stupid foul by TT
February 13, 2008 at 10:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jhawkdan42 (anonymous) says...
So sorry puddy cats game over
February 13, 2008 at 10:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
OO:OO
KSTATE JUST LOST!!!
KU BACK IN FRONT!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qVDtCLBSMjQ
February 13, 2008 at 10:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BCRavenJHawkfan (anonymous) says...
Well, well now. Looks like KSate got some West Texas dust in their eyes. How about them Red Raiders.
All the sudden I don't mind that my paycheck comes from Texas Tech.
February 13, 2008 at 10:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Stebbins (anonymous) says...
I generally think the K-State and Mizzou bashing on this site gets a bit old.
Generally.
I laughed my tail off watching KSU whine and fake-punch its way out of the league lead. Young is a punk, Beasley acted like an 18-year-old, and Frank Martin needs a new tailor. My entire week of basketball viewing has been redeemed.
Anyone else here one of the commentators say that Bob Knight might get a call from Indiana?
February 13, 2008 at 11:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
"I generally think the K-State and Mizzou bashing on this site gets a bit old."
Really? Because I think we haven't piled it on thick enough!
February 13, 2008 at 11:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
didjabuti (anonymous) says...
Yeah, isn't this a KU site? Aren't K-State and Mizzou our rivals? Isn't that what you're supposed to do?
February 14, 2008 at 12:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tashe2 (anonymous) says...
Just to let everyone know, I am a die hard Jayhawk fan. BUT....
I Know Darrell Arthur is our leading scorer, and is a really good basketball player. But, it seems like he is the only one on the team that doesnt play team ball. When he gets the ball, you can count on it going up. Which in some cases thats what we want. For instance in the Texas game, he got the ball down low a few times, and immediatly put it up. Which is fine, but if you looked closely there was always atleast one guy open that would have had a better shot. (I.E Rush open for 3) That is a shot we always want. If you go look at the stats, ya he is our leading scorer, but look at his assists, hardly any. I think we play much better ball when jackson and kaun are in, with chalmers, rus rob, and rush. Could be just my opinion and I realize I am pretty harsh on the jayhawks, but they have set a new standard this year. To be honest, not just cause im a jayhawk fan, but we are the best team in the nation. No doubt about it. But you cant be to mad at a 23-2 record. However its pretty frustrating being 8-2 in the big 12. Rock Chalk Jayhawks
February 14, 2008 at 9:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
smitty33 (anonymous) says...
Tashe,
Good points. You don't need to apologize for your comments, that's what this board is for... venting our frustrations and showing we know more than Self:)
I think we all agree about Arthur. I'm worried he is going to try to be our 'go-to' guy when the ball needs to be in Chalmers hands in the Tourney.
Matt2001,
Na, I really couldn't care less if we were Big 12 champs or not at all. I'm more interested in getting better before the Tourney. I'm generally a fan of most Big 12 schools (except Mizzery), so I wouldn't mind 'sharing' the title. I lived in St. Louis for 3 years and went to sports bars for games and really got to know Mizzery fans. I just don't like them because they're our rivals... they're down right Nasty with NO class. Who really remembers those Big 12 (or 8) titles anyways??
February 14, 2008 at 9:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jhwkfan162515 (anonymous) says...
Glad to see K-State lose so we can have first place in the conference all to ourselves again.
Some drastic changes need to happen NOW. The team needs to have a meeting like they did before the Florida game last season; they need to have some practices with the football pads, some unproductive starters need to be benched awhile, ANYTHING.
And oh by the way, the Big 12 office in Dallas needs to start sending IMPARTIAL officiating crews our way.
February 14, 2008 at 2:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tashe2 (anonymous) says...
jhwkfan1625.. great point. KU needs to do something, we always play other peoples game. Even in the first half of the Texas game(whether we had the lead of not, we for the most part played texas's game). The second half was a joke, we would have been out rebounded against a 3rd grade girls team. Also, I totally agree with sending offiating crews that are impartial, seems like we get screwed so bad. I guess thats because I only see it one way, the only way, Kansas Jayhawk like.
I think the best thing Self could do right now is have two a days during the big stretch we have with only 1 game, one practice do nothing but run their asses off. The other practice do nothing but shooting drills, rebounding drills, and every player should shoot atleast say 100 free throws before leaving. Ofcoarse, I am not a coach for one of the top teams, top programs in the nation, or am I a coach at all. So what do I know really! Atleast we got Colorado, Oklahoma State and Iowa State in the next 3 games. However on the other hand, we finish out with K-State, Texas Tech and Texas A&M.
To be honest, I dont enjoy watching KU games unless we are playing Lawrence Free States JV team. When I watch KU play now, I'm incredibly worried about everything. Then if they lose, which thank God it's only been twice. I am in a bad mood for like a week. Then I lose out on all sports, becau