Thursday, December 20, 2007

KU-MU figures still not known

Financial gain from Arrowhead uncertain

By Jonathan Kealing

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Mangino named AP Coach of the Year

KU head football coach Mark Mangino has been named the Associated Press' Coach of the Year!

Two weeks left until Orange Bowl battle

With about two weeks left until the Kansas battles Virginia Tech in the Orange Bowl, preparation for a KU victory is officially underway.

There's still no final tally for how much Kansas University, Missouri University and the Kansas City Chiefs made from the two schools' Nov. 28 battle at Arrowhead Stadium.

And according to a letter from the KU athletic department, the number won't be available until at least 60 days after the game - or sometime in mid January. The letter was received in response to an open records request by the Lawrence Journal-World.

"It's a standard contract provision," said KU associate athletic director Jim Marchiony. "If somebody was working on (adding up the numbers) eight hours a day, five days a week, we might have the total number already. But people have other responsibilities so we just don't have the final settlement yet."

Lawrence businesses complained that the amount of revenue the athletic department was gaining didn't make up for the amount of business they would be losing from having one of the most popular home football games of the year taken from Lawrence to Kansas City, Mo.

The contract between KU, MU and the Chiefs guarantees that both universities would take home at least $1 million. However, the sellout is expected to propel that number beyond the guarantee for each school.

The money comes primarily from ticket sales. The Kansas City Chiefs kept parking and concession revenues. The Chiefs also split in the revenue from ticket sales above the $2 million needed to satisfy the team's guaranteed payout to both schools.

The schools are guaranteed at least $1 million apiece again next year when the two schools play Missouri's home game at Arrowhead.

Comments

mvjayhawk (anonymous) says...

Let's hope '08 is the last year for this. If it comes back in '09, (and it's still a pretty big if with this group) it will be the first time in 16 years KU has hosted MU as the last game on the schedule. that's truly amazing. This traditional rivalry has been played around with enough. Let's get it back to the campuses!

December 20, 2007 at 7:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

FlaHawk (anonymous) says...

Don't hold your breath on this wish!

While I agree with your sentiments, you need to remember the old saying ...... money talks and tradition walks!

December 20, 2007 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

njjayhawk (anonymous) says...

College football belongs on college campuses. Period.

December 20, 2007 at 8:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

okjhok (anonymous) says...

"That's just, like, your opinion, man." -- The Dude

December 20, 2007 at 8:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

prairie_dog (anonymous) says...

I will probably go the Arrowhead again next year for our "visitor" year because I don't want to throw my boys to those foul-mouthed, drunken wolves. (I am a long-time season ticket holder).

But I ain't doing it ever again. It's not worth the $s, Lew. Let it go.

December 20, 2007 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

That's right ... dollar signs! :D

December 20, 2007 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kdeutch (anonymous) says...

I was attending KU as a student when a new scoreboard went up with...[shudder]...ADVERTISING! There was an outcry that Allen Fieldhouse was being desecrated. Now look at the Fieldhouse, it looks like billboard alley on I-70 between KC & Lawrence!

What is UTexas' AD budget: $70 million-$80 million? Unfortunately, KU must compete with this & if a game in KC will help (he said w/much bias) then KU must do it. Otherwise we all can just attend basketball games @Samford or Monmouth!

December 20, 2007 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

alcart21 (anonymous) says...

I just love it when people start griping about the athletic department making decisions based on dollars. This was the best season for KU football ever and we still only sold out two games in Memorial all year. Like it or not, the game in Arrowhead probably brought more resources and more exposure to the program than both of those games combined.

The program, the university, and the community will be served much better over the next 20 years or more if the Border War was actually played on the border. Every year!!! It will help build and establish the football program to the point that every home game will be sold out and businesses in Lawrence can look forward to over 50,000 people in town every home weekend instead of the 15,000 that showed up in 2002.

December 20, 2007 at 11:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

leikness (anonymous) says...

I ejoyed the game, but don't like it because I think it will always be either 1/2+ mizzou. Ku has a great fan base, but we split a smaller state w/KSU and there is just simply not as many KU fans as there are MU fans. KU fans made a great showing sticking with the team when they were down this year. I does worry me looking forward, could be a hostile environment for KU every year.

December 20, 2007 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

alcart21 (anonymous) says...

Oklahoma plays in Texas at the Cottonbowl every year against the Horns. And OU still wins most of the games. Besides, KU has as many or more Alums in the KC area and our campus is closer. The Red River Shootout is the biggest game of the year in the Big 12 South every year. We need that kind of big time game and tradition every year. I hate Misery as much as anyone, but I want to compete and have a shot at the Big 12 title every year.

December 20, 2007 at 11:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

shelleysue (anonymous) says...

Going to the game at Arrowhead was miserable. I think I've already written that we were only a few miles from the stadium and it took us FOUR hours to get in and to get parked. We were stuck in the parking lot for two hours. We left for the game six hours before game time and worried that we would miss kick-off. We definitely didn't have time to enjoy any pre-game. Apparently we never should have left the area after Game Day. The parking lot was awful. There was no security that I saw let alone anyone directing traffic. Even though we all received information about keeping all the lanes clear, there were several times we had to try to back up and turn around because Missouri or Kansas fans had the entire lane blocked. Once while trying to stay with the others in our group, someone walked in front of our car and demanded that we stop because they had someone who wanted to park. All in all it was a frustrating and miserable experience and I'm not doing it again.

December 20, 2007 at 11:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jayhawk_Jerry (anonymous) says...

If the Border war continues at Arrowhead I can't wait for the years when the game should be in Columbia, but we get it at a neutral site and how that helps us. Did it screw us this year, yes, but can it help us in the future? Most definitely.

Big time college rivaly games all over the country are played away from the campuses. This isn't anything new. I think it's a good thing for our program the way this game gets national exposure.

December 20, 2007 at 11:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

okjhok (anonymous) says...

Just saw that Kenny Albert is calling the Orange Bowl, with Darryl Johnston and Barry Alvarez.

December 20, 2007 at 11:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

well, it was the first time at Arrowhead, logistically things should improve ...

but as for the Mizzou fans, well ...

that's what it takes to make the rivalry!

***

Still my favorite moment was at College Gameday, the Tigers started chanting "OVERRATED!" and the Jayhawks countered with "UNDEFEATED!"

Back and forth it went ...

For just a few moments, it was like those old beer commercials: "tastes great, less filling!" :D

December 20, 2007 at 11:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

LAJayhawk (anonymous) says...

I feel for the merchants of Lawrence; that is a substantial amount of money to lose out on. The athletic department has to do what's best for them, however. If you are worried there are not enough KU fans in KC, go to Johnson Co. They line the streets with KU alums.

December 20, 2007 at 12:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

blah, blah, blah ... Lawrence merchants!

I'm sorry, if there are SELLOUTS for the other games on the football schedule, then guess what:

they recoup any perceived losses!

That was Thanksgiving weekend anyway, when all the students are already gone!

I have much respect for the businesses in Lawrence, and I still would rather buy from a mom and pop than a Big Box, but that lament is bogus!!

***

And guess what, in hoops, if the women start drawing EVEN HALF of what the men do, that's going to help the city and merchants as well!

Ever tried to go to a restaurant after a men's basketball game in Lawrence?

December 20, 2007 at 12:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

Don't laugh, it is possible for Coach Henrickson:

http://www.ncaa.org/stats/w_basketbal...

1. Tennessee - 14,678
2. Connecticut - 10,802
3. Texas Tech - 10,668
4. Oklahoma - 10,437
11. Baylor - 6,295
19. Texas - 5,044
25. Texas A&M - 4,442
28. Nebraska - 4,110
29. K-State - 4,063
42. Okie St - 2,791
43. KANSAS - 2,657

December 20, 2007 at 12:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jayhawkdude46542 (anonymous) says...

It may have been the first KU-Misery tilt in KC, but it certainly wasn't the Chiefs first go-round with parking. Since they kept the parking and concessions, shouldn't they be the ones held responsible for lack of traffic flow?

December 20, 2007 at 12:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

rawkhawk (anonymous) says...

While I understand some benefits to the increased hype and yes Arrowhead will probably be a better venue than Columbia for KU next year, I can't help but wonder how the season could have changed had this been a home game. Could be looking forward to the national championship now. Woulda shoulda coulda...

December 20, 2007 at 12:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

shelleysue (anonymous) says...

I guess I still don't understand why playing at Arrowhead gives us greater national exposure. It's always been a big rivalry talked about on a national level, including rivalry week.

December 20, 2007 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jhwkfan162515 (anonymous) says...

Who cares? The only figure that means anything to me is that we lost that game 28-36.

December 20, 2007 at 12:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

LAJayhawk (anonymous) says...

Nice respectful reply sevenyear.

Your thoughts are logically flawed. Most of the other games are not sellouts (oh, wait, was I supposed to capitalize that for EFFECT), and moving the game to KC doesn't necessarily facilitate in selling more tickets at Memorial. And being Thanksgiving weekend without the students actually makes the problem worse -- many students and out of towners would have come into Lawrence for the game, thus aiding an otherwise slow weekend.

Here in LA there is currently a writers strike. But it's not just the writers that are affected. An enormous chunk of the local economy thrives on that market. Caterers, equipment rental companies, security companies, trucking companies, actors (the non-famous day to day ones), and on and on all are losing most if not all of their income because a large portion of productions have been shut down. I bring this up as a comparison, because the Lawrence economy bases itself highly on the University for revenue. Without that game, the town loses out on hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars. That comes out of the working man's pocket.

While I understand the athletic department looking to build itself in whatever way it can (and they made a tidy sum on that game), I do feel for the merchants and the economy of Lawrence. I guess I'm just not as cold as you are sevenyear.

December 20, 2007 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

alcart21 (anonymous) says...

KU v. Missouri has always been a rivalry. That is true. But its easier to market the game on a national basis when the game is played on a neutral field in a major city. You can sell 80,000 tickets compared to 50,000. KC happens to be our biggest alumni base. The money from alumni donations is a big part of the income for the athletic department. When you add up the economic benefits of having the game in KC, your able to put more money into facilities and quality coaches. This isn't the NFL where everyone has a salary cap, this is college where you need facilities and coaches to attract recruits. When you combine the facilities with coaches and recruits you win more games. A winning program sells more tickets than a losing one. That's how moving the game to KC equals more sell outs at Memorial.

December 20, 2007 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

FELONY (anonymous) says...

Regarding KU's fan base, current numbers from respective (KU & MU) alumni chapters... KU has almost 3 times the number of active and almost 4 times the number of alumni in the KC area.

The KU v MU football rivalry started in KC in 1891, nineteen of the first 20 games were played in KC. (1911 game played in St. Joseph). The original trophy (bass drum traveling trophy) for this rivalry was purchased in 1935 from a KC pawn shop by alumni of both schools. That's the history of the football rivalry between KU and MU.

MU has a larger fan base in the St. Louis area. Most of the MU fans at Arrowhead had a longer drive to the game than most KU fans. Like the numerous Chiefs fans from Nebraska, Oklahoma, Iowa etc...they left earlier for Arrowhead. The only MU fans I read being interviewed after the game in the media came from the St. Louis area.

Any statement that MU has a larger fanbase in KC than KU would be erroneous. The basketball team has a 186-74 record in KC and KU's fan base in KC has always been well represented at it's games in KC, as they were in Arrowhead. MU is more at a disadvantage coming to KC than KU for any games between the two schools.

December 20, 2007 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

e93bigd (anonymous) says...

LAJayhawk - a bit of a stretch comparing one football game day to the months-long writers strike. The merchants probably did lose a small fraction of income by not having a home game that day but gaining national exposure for the football program will pay dividends in the long run. A better program will result in more fans at home games and more revenue for them in the future.

December 20, 2007 at 2:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

I don't think it is cold, so much as looking at the larger picture ...

***

let me tell you about strikes and unions and all that ....

my family has been involved with labor unions, for decades, I used to be a music education major, and I knew someone that drove an import. Now granted, this was fifteen years ago, and now some Toyotas and Hondas are made here in the States, but stay with me ...

I criticized this person for driving an import, and she said, what difference does it make?

I said, if someone loses their job to an vehicle manufactured overseas, then they can't afford to buy an instrument for their kid, then we have no function in the school system ...

after looking at it from that perspective, she at least realized where I was coming from ...

The moral of that story, and the one with the Border War being moved to Kansas City is: looking at the Big Picture ...

More money for the athletic department means expansion of ALL the programs, as I said ... if the women start to draw even three to four thousand, with ten to fifteen games, doesn't THAT help the Lawrence merchants?

Compared to one game moved out of the city?

December 20, 2007 at 2:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

JayViking (anonymous) says...

Regardless of all other things being considered:

THE GAME AT ARROWHEAD SUCKED. The only thing that was better than Memorial was that I could buy beer! But at 8 bucks a pop, I could only afford ONE. We were 5-10 miles from the stadium, and it took us three and a half hours from driveway to parking spot. Another hour to get in through the mob at the ticket gate, (MOB..not lines..surprised people didn't get hurt) and we could have snuck a case of beer in because security was rushing us through so fast they barely glanced at us. Three PM gate time? Seven PM game time? Why can't you open the gates earlier and direct traffic! It was a zoo! Opening earlier spreads arrival times and gives people time to actually tailgate.

It was an overpriced orgy.

I sincerely hope some of you rich people that Lew actually listens to (he's deaf to the common man) hated the experience as much as I did...and are URGING him to bring this back to Lawrence.

December 20, 2007 at 2:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kdeutch (anonymous) says...

To all the people who don't like the Arrowhead location of the "Border Showdown" don't complain here about the "purity" of college football & how money, adverstising revenue, etc. shouldn't influence the location of the game. Instead, write T. Boone Pickens c/o Oklahoma St.; or UTexas AD DeLoss Dodds & tell them to stop spending so much money on athletics! It's not a level playing field in the Big 12 folks, and all AD Perkins is trying to do is even it out some!

December 20, 2007 at 3:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

hawkfan20 (anonymous) says...

There's no question that everything the Chiefs handled as part of the Arrowhead experience was a debacle. Personally, I can't imagine it being handled any worse. It's like they had never hosted a sporting event period. Whoever was in charge should have been fired. Period.

Texas' athletic budget is a $100 million.

For those of you that think MU has a bigger base in KC, what are you smoking? Have you ever looked at the TV ratings? KU easily is the #2 show in KC after the Chiefs. KU Football or basketball easily outdistances Mizzou every time and it's usually by multiples.

December 20, 2007 at 3:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

speaking of Missouri and their fanbase ...

over on the Message Boards, a bunch of us are talking about going to Columbia en masse for a Tigger basketball game, wearing BLUE and rooting for their opponent!!

Apparently they're having problems selling out the Plague, um Paige Arena, er the Zoo, uh Mizzou Arena! :D

December 20, 2007 at 3:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

klong (anonymous) says...

That would be funny as hell sevenyear! They wouldn't know what to think of that!

December 20, 2007 at 3:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

RedJay (anonymous) says...

I like watching games at Memorial Stadium, at the foot of CampHill, where the home crowd waves the wheat and we sing the alma matter and rock chalk before the game. It gives me chills thinking about it.

Who would want to trade that experience for a game IN MISSOURI at a run down NFL stadium in a city with no nightlife?

Also, has anyone figured yet how many sales tax dollars our state gave away?

December 20, 2007 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

klong,

it might be unprecedented!

the only thing that comes close is Ohio St fans in San Antonio rooting for OU or in 2004 when a bunch of TEXAS fans made the trip to Hattiesburg, MS to cheer for the Golden Eagles against the Cal Bears ...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns...

December 20, 2007 at 4:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

feedback71 (anonymous) says...

So it sounds to me as if the real issue with Arrowhead was that they didn't do the parking very well. Trust me, I've been to many games at Arrowhead for the Chiefs (when they were still good) and getting into the stadium or getting out was never that much of a problem. Well, unless you're getting there 30 minutes prior to kickoff. The only time getting out was an issue was the Bengals game in 2006. Not sure what the problem was that day. My point is that it appears as though the Chiefs flubbed this one by not having as many parking employess or the same parking employees as during a regular Chiefs game. I think that if KU and MU want to continue this game at Arrowhead, they better demand that the Carl Peterson guarantee parking will be as well run as before and after Chiefs games. Other than that, I see no reason not to make this a yearly tradition.

BTW sevenyear, that does sound like it would be comical. However, I would advise against it. We call MU fans no class fans because they bought Bucknell and Bradley shirts. I wouldn't want to be accused of acting like MU fans.

December 20, 2007 at 4:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

LAJayhawk (anonymous) says...

As I said before, I completely understand why the athletic department agreed on that location, there certainly is a significant amount of money to be made now and in the future. And I don't think it's a bad idea to hold the game there (I wasn't in attendance, so I can't speak for parking). I was simply stating that I feel for the local merchants -- many of whom I knew personally when I worked in banking in Lawrence -- for the loss of revenue they had to endure. Also, there is no guarantee that moving the game to Arrowhead will grow the program and help sell tickets to other games (or other sporting events). Certainly there is a possibility, but it is not hard to understand from a business perspective the risk involved and, therefore, the merchant base's hesitancy. Again, I don't disagree with the move. If you look back at all of my posts, all I have said is that I feel for the merchants.

And e93bigd, I wasn't trying to say that moving the game is the same as the writers strike. Believe, it's not. The economy here is hurting, as I know first hand (I have not worked in over a month). I was attempting to show how one aspect of the local economy, when withdrawn, can affect and potentially devastate a large portion of the rest of the city. Moving the game was not devastating to Lawrence, but it certainly hurt the books a bit.

sevenyear, that is a good idea -- and would be funny as hell -- but you have to balance the comedy of it against the morality of being a patron to the university of missouri..............

December 20, 2007 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

seattlehawk_78 (anonymous) says...

I'm okay with the game at Arrowhead as long as the financial reward justifies it. As long as KU fans comprise at least 50% of Arrowhead, I can't see any disadvantage on the field.

Another way of looking at it, KU fans won't have to travel to Columbia every other year and the most reprehensible fans in the country won't descend upon Lawrence on alternating years.

December 20, 2007 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

we'd still be wearing our own colors, not the opponents ...

I'm not organizing, just promoting! :D

December 20, 2007 at 5:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

seattlehawk_78 (anonymous) says...

I like it 7year. Plan on it when they play some cupcake and attendance is low and it wouldn't take much of a crowd to stand out. Certainly more clever than anything the antlers ever conceived.

December 20, 2007 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

LA,

I'm not such a bad guy, I think a lot of my tone is lost online ...

thanks seattle, not my idea, but I fully support it! :D

December 20, 2007 at 5:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

lance1jhawk (anonymous) says...

sevenyear... lol... you are a beautiful genius!!!!!

December 20, 2007 at 5:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

12/27 Thu Coppin State at Mizzou, 7 p.m.
1/08 Tue UMKC at Mizzou, 7 p.m.
1/12 Sat Texas at Mizzou, 12.30 p.m.

December 20, 2007 at 5:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

seattlehawk_78 (anonymous) says...

Wear your "Bring Back Quinn" t-shirt.

December 20, 2007 at 6:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

bmcmich1 (anonymous) says...

Going into P(l)aige as blatant KU fans and rooting for the other team?? I like it, but one question: do they make Kevlar in royal blue??

December 20, 2007 at 7:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jayhawk86 (anonymous) says...

Well, I could rehash the Memorial vs Arrowhead all day, but what good would it do? I have stated my opinion many times. I am for it. I will say that I had a good time at Arrowhead. No trouble with parking, only took about 45 min to get there from joco. had a great tailgate and no problems. I am sure that for everyone that had issues, there were people like myself who had none.

December 20, 2007 at 9:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kc_wildfire (anonymous) says...

I must say we had no problem whatsoever getting into the game at Arrowhead. Left at 5:00 and got to a friend's tailgate by 6:00, plenty of time to grab some brats and take in party atmosphere.

December 20, 2007 at 9:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

thiknthinhawk (anonymous) says...

Theres something like 43 postings here and 8 postings on the AP COY story. Come on! Wheres our priorities?

December 20, 2007 at 10:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

scootja32 (anonymous) says...

there was a coy story yesterday that had 29 comments. feel better?

December 20, 2007 at 11:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

fabio (anonymous) says...

Anyone that goes to Columbia to root against Mizzou needs to wear blue Orange Bowl attire. I want a scoreboard shirt that says "Jayhawks-Orange Bowl Logo, Mizzou-Cotton Bowl Logo".

December 21, 2007 at 1:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

JBurtin (anonymous) says...

I think that people who think that the Arrowhead game long term will gain KU national exposure are counting their chickens before they hatch.

This year's game got national exposure because both of the teams happened to be good on the same year. OU and Texas get the exposure every year because both programs have a good history and neither team is likely to fall off the map any time soon. But what happens if one team or the other doesn't happen to be any good? Most likely it would be just another regional broadcast, and the stadium probably wouldn't sell out. So the financial gain and exposure would both be minimal.

Personally, I wouldn't sell the home game experience based on the potential of making money. The way to make more money is not to invite 40,000+ MU fans to your "home" game. Instead the AD should be working on making sure there are 50,000+ Jayhawk fans at each true home game. This translates to more wins, and with it, more national exposure.

In time, we could also work on expanding Memorial to say 70,000 Jayhawk fans and would be able to compete with the budgets of some of the other schools. This would also give us the best competitive advantage in the game and would give the TV crews a chance to show off the beauty of the KU campus around the stadium.

I personally think that ESPN Gameday would have come to the game regardless of where it was played. Sure the hill isn't exactly beautiful at the moment, but it would have given them a chance to talk about the construction of the new facilities going on.

We missed a big opportunity on this one.

Further, I have to question the mentality of playing up the rivalry with Missouri. If we are getting national exposure from the game, then so are they. Do any of us really want to give them such exposure? KU is to Missouri as a Hammer is to a Nail in basketball and I would love nothing more than for it to be the same story in football. I would rather us have our nationally televised games be against storied programs such as Nebraska, Texas, and Oklahoma.

Perhaps we could continue the KU/OU matchups in Arrowhead for two years, then switch off to KU/OSU for the other two years. Then we wouldn't have to deal with Missouri fans and it would be a fun North/South rivalry that would get us some exposure in the KC market.

December 21, 2007 at 2:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

LivedinLawrence4Life (anonymous) says...

Has anyone inquired into why the KU team didn't leave Lawrence until 4:30 for a 7:00 game at Arrowhead with outrageous traffic? Could the lack of warm up time have affected the team's lackluster performance in the first half?

January 14, 2008 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal )