jackhawk (anonymous) says...

Where is it wriltten that sports columnists are supposed to "speculate"? Why is a columnist supposed to "guess" when he/she cannot get answers? Is speculating and guessing good journalism? I think not. No, Chuck, the coach was not out of line. He was saying what needed to be said. Sports writers "make up things" when they can't come up with a story based on facts. That has been going on much too long.

September 25, 2007 at 7:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

frustrated (anonymous) says...

I'm not going to say that Gundy was completely justified in his statement, but I did read Carlson's column and she was out of line. It was pure speculation - calling out a kid for not having heart. I don't know why she felt the need to criticize him. Wouldn't it be sufficient to say that he wasn't getting the job done, and that's why he was replaced? That's really the bottom line for almost any decision a coach makes.

As for Carlson being a woman - I don't think that had much to do with anything. Gundy shouldn't have brought motherhood into it, but I think he would've said pretty much the same thing to a male reporter. And, I see no problem with a coach holding a reporter accountable for what she has written. Especially when what she has written is a personal attack on a kid instead of a sports story. I like a coach that goes to bat for his players.

September 25, 2007 at 8:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

KoolKeithFreeze (anonymous) says...

Gundy never mentioned "motherhood", he just said that someone who has kids wouldn't have written the article, man or woman. He was referring to himself and other men with kids as examples of people who would not have written the article. The male/female angle is a product of Woodling's imagination, and has nothing to so with this. Gundy was not supposed to say anything because criticizing a female writer is "cowardly"!?! That statement is sexist in it's own right.
I guess its not surprising how the media is jumping to support a member of its own ranks so impulsively. They are all (ESPN, etc.) referring to it as a "shrill tirade" and so forth. I say more power to him for defending his player's integrity. If one of the LJW writer's started speculating that Meier having lost his starting job was the result of being an ignorant, pansy, "mama's boy" or something, instead of just accepting the fact that Reesing was being more productive on the field, then I hope Mangino would have done the same thing. The uproar over Gundy's "crazy tirade" is absurd. Just a coach defending his player.

September 25, 2007 at 8:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Brock (anonymous) says...

Gundy needs to seek therapy for his mental illness. And he had better aim his tirades at his defense or his daddy, Boone Pickens, will run his Okie kiester out of town.

Brock

September 25, 2007 at 8:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hawk4evr (anonymous) says...

She got exactly what she deserved.

September 25, 2007 at 8:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

75Jayhawk (anonymous) says...

All, you have to understand the difference between a columnist and a reporter. A reporter reports the facts. A columnist can write about anything, fact or fiction, which includes speculation.

Carlson, Woodling, Mayer and Keegan are columnists which give them the latitude to go in any direction they like. They are not reporters. As readers, we may not like the message a columnist is sending, but it is their right to convey in any form they choose. The only people they have to answer to is their editor.

Having said that, if people don't like the message they convey and stop reading their columns, they may find themselves out of a job. I suspect that the national attention that this story is getting will enhance Ms. Carlson's resume whether anyone likes the message or not.

September 25, 2007 at 9:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

well, I haven't been following this story very closely, but being a parent does absolutely change your perspective on lots of issues ...

look at the story about Aqib Talib being a more responsible leader ...

look at the thread and discussion about the vulgar chant at the football stadium ... it's essentially those without kids versus those with ...

Was he right to bring it up - maybe ... can she write about whatever she wants, yes! We value the freedom of the press in this country. Should the coach have conducted himself more professionally, of course ... he makes a lot of money to represent an organization, but this stuff can and does happen ...

I'm glad that he's sticking to his stance and not backing down, too often people in this society say something, then backtrack ... but he did acknowledge the delivery as being in appropriate ...

September 25, 2007 at 9:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

quigley (anonymous) says...

..."Carlson was left to guess" Just made yourself look like an idiot with that comment Woodling. I'm not even in journalism and know that's not what good writers do. I have seen the tirade and completely support Gundy.

September 25, 2007 at 9:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

AzHawk97 (anonymous) says...

Gundy was grandstanding. It was neither the time or place for his ego driven tirade. If he truly wanted to handle this issue it could have been handled privately and been a non-story. He made himself and Ms. Carlson the focus. Maybe this was his ploy to take attention away from his fragile "amateur" athlete. Well, I guess it worked.

September 25, 2007 at 9:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

vkerns (anonymous) says...

Sometimes media, in the interest of "doing their job" forget to exercise human compassion. Yes, as afforded by our constitution we all have a right to express our views. It's unfortunate when the desire to sell a newspaper or get viewers for a broadcast we forget some basic standards of human decency, to treat others as we want to be treated.

September 25, 2007 at 9:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

DerekR25 (anonymous) says...

Unfortunately, columnists are able to "spin" a story however they want to provide an interesting angle. Just like Woodling spun the whole situation to defend Carlson i stating that Gundy was attacking her because she was a woman. It gets frustrating seeing a bunch of BS being written and printed about people you care about when you know what is really going on. All it does is spread rumor and gossip which can get around to family and friends and eventually to coaches, and sometimes coaches do exactly what Gundy did this weekend.

September 25, 2007 at 10:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Dexter (anonymous) says...

If Carlson wants to write demeaning things about players and coaches, she needs to be prepared to get it back in the same measure and the same public forum. Where journalists concluded that they are immune from consequences for their decisions is beyond me.

September 25, 2007 at 10:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

Dexter, as a former journalist it comes from lots of reasons:

hiding behind the First Amendment, callousness from being in the field for a while, and a bit of an elitist attitude ...

for lots of reasons I was not sad to leave the profession, but sometimes still I do miss it!

September 25, 2007 at 10:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

chicagohawk52 (anonymous) says...

The article written by Carlson was full of rumors and rumblings and she admitted that herself. She acts as if she doesn't know what she did wrong but she did humiliate Bobby Reid and his family and for what? It is obvious now that you (Woodling) agree with bad reporting and terrible journalism. This person is not a good representation of the University or the school of journalism. She wrote an article that was disrespectful to Oklahoma State, the football program, and more importantly a 20 year old kid who has no way of defending himself and his "bad attitude". I hope that if a KU player gets benched you don't throw him and the program under the bus as well.

September 25, 2007 at 10:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Brock (anonymous) says...

I think that Gundy acted like a fool. I would like to see the NCAA relieve him of a few hundred thousand dollars to help him calm down and act like a Division One coach.

Brock

September 25, 2007 at 10:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

brock, I don't know if the NCAA would get involved, only if he said something about the officials, like Mangino and the UT dollar signs game ...

I could see the athletic department reprimanding him a bit ...

/where have you been, hadn't seen you post in a while!

September 25, 2007 at 11:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bmcmich1 (anonymous) says...

Gundy's tirade may have been lacking a little tact, however I'm not sure I would have been able to control my anger were I in his situation either.

When anyone, man OR woman, who has never put on a jock or a helmet and pads publicly questions the toughness of a football player it tends to really, really, PI$$ some of them off. How could she not have known that?? People can say it's not about that all they want, but I don't buy it for a second.

For better or worse, a good majority of current and former football players take GREAT amounts of pride in playing or having played the game. Many who haven't played cannot understand this, and poo-poo it as a juvenile or neanderthal attitude. Regardless, it is what it is. SO, when someone who hasn't ever walked a mile in their shoes starts to publicly criticize one of their own it tends to incense them. Hence, the Mike Gundy blowup. I personally think he was still feeling quite a lot of heat for the Troy debacle and the column was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I will concede that he didn't go about expressing his distaste for the column in the right way; but as a columnist, she has GOT to know that she is going to severely tick some people off. Or, maybe being a columnist gives you a free pass to disgrace anyone in the name of selling papers.

September 25, 2007 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justanotherfan (anonymous) says...

I've read the article, but haven't been able to watch the tirade yet. I had the privilege of coaching an academic activity for a couple of years and I can tell you, I understand where Gundy is coming from. More than once I had judges or tournament officials say something that I felt was inappropriate or disrespectful to my kids and every time that judge or tournament official got an earful from me about it. I wanted my kids to know that whether they performed well or poorly, I wasn't going to throw them under the bus or let people outside the team take potshots at them. Gundy stood up for his player. Perhaps he should have picked his time, place and method a little better, but he has to let his team know that he won't let others rip them without him saying something in their defense. Maybe the media likes him a little less now, but I can tell you from experience that his team will respect him more.

September 25, 2007 at 1:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

katbasher (anonymous) says...

The media for some reason thinks that it can say whatever it wants and when someone hits them back they all circle the wagons and cry. I read the article; it was a character hit-piece.

And yet, it doesn't surprise me that most in the media are here to defend her immediately. My favorite are the ones who say that the coach embarrassed her...not that she didn't do that same thing to his player...

September 25, 2007 at 1:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bigrother60 (anonymous) says...

What bothers me the most about this is not the actions of Carlson or Gundy, but the media backing Carlson so vehemently. I hear every news source reporting that "the whole country is in outrage over Gundy's tirade," but that really is not the case. I read these posts and I listen to sports radio callers, and I see more than half of these non-media people saying that they had no problem with Gundy's actions, and in a lot of cases they even support his actions. But that is swept under the rug.

The media have the only forum to discuss this issue in a broad manner, and in a lot of cases only allow those supporting them to enter that forum. It's truly annoying. The media says they shouldn't be criticized in public for criticizing in public. Are you serious??

I personally take issue with Carlson's column, and it makes a lot of accusations that simply cannot be factually supported. I also think Gundy was out of line and could have been more "diplomatic" in addressing the issue. But that isn't the point. The point is that its frustrating to see reporters and columnists dominating the discussion simply because they control the means to the discussion. It is unprofessional and childish. As the old saying goes, "If you can't take it, don't dish it out."

September 25, 2007 at 2:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

ppierce (anonymous) says...

bet she won't lacking a story for tomorrow.

September 25, 2007 at 3:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

JBurtin (anonymous) says...

Carlson is a public figure just as much as Gundy. She is allowed to publicly embarrass someone if she likes, and Gundy is entitled to shove it right back where the sun don't shine.

Gundy chose absolutely the right time, place, and method of ripping her a new one. Do it after a big win, when everybody is watching and embarrass the crap out of her.

Can you imagine having to face your teamates when some twit that has never put on pads starts calling you a momma's boy?

Further she insinuates that he has been having disipline problems and that the coaches were itching for a reason to bench him. That kind of character assisination puts a label on a kid that can be hard to get off. Yes, you're allowed to speculate as a columnist, but this was character assisination bordering on libel. I haven't been hearing story after story of him getting arrested (ala John Randle), and he doesn't deserve to have a label put on him as if he has.

What happens if he comes out and does a great job later on and gets NFL interest? Having this kind of label can make NFL teams shy away from a guy. She's screwing around with his player's future with irresponsible journalism and the only way to get a label like that off is to make your story of how it isn't true bigger than the story that made the insinuation.

Woodling himself admits that she wasn't that great a writer when she was here, and it doesn't look like she's improved. I commend you Mike Gundy for going to bat for your players.

September 25, 2007 at 3:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

I couldn't have said it better myself, JBurtin. I agree with you 100%. As for you, Brock, you're either an idiot or heartless, or both. There was NOTHING wrong with what Gundy said. He didn't swear, he didn't threaten physical harm, he simply stood up for a player who had been treated badly. Writers should not have carte blanche to say anything they want, with no factual basis whatsoever.

September 25, 2007 at 4:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

KoolKeithFreeze (anonymous) says...

I'm an idiot.

Brock

September 25, 2007 at 5:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justanotherfan (anonymous) says...

I have now seen the video and I think that Gundy was within his rights to do what he did. In reading some of the media reports, I thought he was much more out of control than he actually was. He took issue with someone attacking one of his players. I have no problem with that. I would have (and have in fact) done the same. His team may be struggling, but that doesn't mean its okay to throw the former starting QB under the bus, or let the media throw the former starter under the bus. Way to stand up for your guys, Coach!

September 25, 2007 at 5:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hawker00 (anonymous) says...

I really have no comment on the actions of either Gundy or Carlson. Carlson wrote something negative about a player. She has the right to do that. Gundy reacted to that article. He has the right to do that. So he yelled at Carlson... big deal, she is a grown woman and am sure she can take it.
The one thing that I can't stand though is that Gundy refers to Reid as a kid. An 18/19 yr old freshman can be called a kid... a 21 yr old junior who will be 22 in a few months is not a kid. I'm sick of college coaches doing this and calling all their players kids in situations like this (or any situation for that matter). Non athletes are not being considered kids at 21 and neither should the athletes. Defend him by saying everything else that Gundy said (he goes to class, is respectful, etc), but don't try to put a negative light on it by saying he is a kid and comparing him to a young child, because he is not

September 25, 2007 at 11:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

KU_Kiwi (anonymous) says...

I am a KU grad who lives in Auckland, New Zealand. This story was played of the local channel in NZ and the commentators were making fun of Gundy for being an idiot.

Personally, several individuals have made a point of the fact that Carlson wrote a story based on rumor and lack of information, calling her a terrible journalist. I would point out they have done the same thing of which they have accused Carlson. Who knows what has gone previously between Gundy and Carlson, what information he has given or withheld, and what his attitude is toward female sports writers. There may be much more to this story than what any of us know. Are either of the two parties in the complete right? I doubt it. So Carlson took a shot at one of his players. What choice did Gundy give her but to speculate? Once people start playing such concealed hands, we are unlikely to get the complete story.

September 26, 2007 at 4:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

5to6 (anonymous) says...

So Woodling "can't imagine any of the writers or broadcasters joining the sycophantic chorus"? Maybe he should look in the mirror. Hell hath no fury like a "journalist" ridiculed...and aside from death and taxes, the only other certain thing in life is other "journalists" circling the wagons whenever one of theirs gets "attacked" (or in any way held accountable for their actions).

Gundy was passionate in his comments, but he wasn't a ranting lunatic like "journalists" would have you believe he was. Of course, Carlson can now write her own ticket, because clearly her colleagues now view her as being terribly brave to stand up to such a "flogging".

September 26, 2007 at 7:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

There are many fine and reputable journalists in the field, but sadly, incidents such as this leave no doubt as to why the public views "us" somewhere between used car sellers and lawyers ...

September 26, 2007 at 9:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

caddie733 (anonymous) says...

Plain and simple, if you are going to call someone out, be prepared to be called out yourself. Why should Ms. Carlson be afforded the right to be called out in private when Bobby Reid was not afforded the same right?

September 26, 2007 at 11:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Migady (anonymous) says...

Woodling,
What?
She didn't do anything right in this situation. She speculated and went with it in a story with absolutely no facts. You're a Journalist (sort of). Is that good reporting?
Also, he is a college athlete, sophomore none the less, and the female sports writer is calling a D-I QB soft?
I hope he tore her a new one based on 2 things. Who is she to speculate a football player's toughness? She has no idea what its like to be on a field (like many other weak and out of shape sports journalists who never touched a playing field)
Also, he was calling out the media. He told them right there, Don't F*ck with my boys. In college, reporting like she did is crossing the line.
Only you Woodling, would try to turn this into a gender war.
He called her out in a room full of Journalists. Had no issues of gender. Just issues with a story.
What's funny to me is you point out gender as a problem in this situation? Does this mean you don't think she can handle criticism as well as the men? Or are men just more open to criticism because they are male and in the journalistic world women should have an easier time reporting because they are women? Interesting:

September 26, 2007 at 11:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

loudog (anonymous) says...

What's getting lost in all of this is that this "kid" that Gundy was defending (whether it be the right way or the wrong way) was not a kid, but a 22 year old, scholarship athlete, being asked to lead a D-IA program that has title aspirations. He shouldn't need to be defended... he's an adult. And he should have learned by now that being an adult, whether in the public eye or not, can sometimes suck. People are going to criticize you, and there's not always going to be someone around to soften it for you.

Another question that's not been answered in all of this is whether Carlson's article really hurt Reid's feelings, or if Gundy was just looking for a way to fire up his team and bring a little bit of attention to his program after being in the shadow of OU all the time. If the article really did hurt Reid's feelings, then maybe it was right on point and he needs to get some sack and start acting his age. However if he's fine and Gundy was just seeking attention for his program.... well, it certainly worked like a charm. I mean, here we are talking about it on a KU website when we could normally care less about anything with the work "Oklahoma" in it.

September 26, 2007 at 12:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

DSommersby (anonymous) says...

I was really surprised how harsh Carlson's article was. I do not think she meant for it or realized it was so demeaning towards Reid. I'm sure she probably had some pretty good sources at OSU feeding her some of the inside scoop, but I agree she stepped way over the line. I think Gundy's reaction was poorly played but he was defending his player. She ripped him in a public forum so he responded in a public forum. I think he could have made his point in a more civil manner and still accomplished the point of defending his player and denouncing the article.

Pretty good takes I came across in the link below....

http://www.bottomlinecom.com/hotmedia...

September 26, 2007 at 1:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

twink (anonymous) says...

"unconscionable rudeness and brazen disrespect by the football coach of a Big 12 Conference school?"

A little biased aren't we? I wouldn't have expected any other paper to defend Jenni.

What she did was atrocious. You don't call out a college student. These are not professional football players. These are students that have to go back into the classroom and face their fellow students after a unfair and negative article was published. How would you have liked walking into one of your gen. ed classes and having 150 students turn and judge you based on what an article said?

What's next? Belittling high school students? Yelling out to little leaguers?

She disgusts me.

September 26, 2007 at 3:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jhwkfan162515 (anonymous) says...

Obviously Carlson had nothing better to do with her time than question Reid's character. She deserved that a$$-chewing. Kudos to Gundy for standing up for Reid.

September 26, 2007 at 3:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

OmahaKUAlum (anonymous) says...

I think it's great that Gundy defended his player. As I watched the clip on Sportscenter, I said outloud to my husband, "Good for him!" Obviously, as a woman, I have never played football (except flag football for my sorority), but my father, husband, and two brothers have all played college football, and I know the kind of pressure they can be under. It's one thing for a columnist to call a player out on his play on the field (as we all tend to do sometimes); but to attack his character and heart with absolutely no facts is terrible. If Reid was a felon or a punk, then that's another story. But from what I've heard, he's never been in any kind of trouble. True, Reid isn't a 10 year old kid, but he is a college kid, and not a professional athlete. It's difficult enough to be a fulltime college student and a Division I athlete, not to mention already having lost your starting position, without having someone question your heart and character, embarassing you in public. Good for Gundy for standing up for his player and defending him...more coaches should show such loyalty!

On that same note, I think it's sad to see the media throw Gundy under the bus for showing such loyalty to his player. Part of being a responsible journalist is checking your facts, and I think in this age of freedom of speech, Gundy had every right to call out that journalist. What goes around comes around, and maybe next time she will check her facts and think twice before she unjustifiably publically humiliates a college player.

September 26, 2007 at 3:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

winnhawk (anonymous) says...

Columists defend columists. Players should be defended by coaches. Good for Gundy. It was the right place and the right time. It got on ESPN--- the very heart of the problem.

September 26, 2007 at 7:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

rockchalktalk (anonymous) says...

gundy was right, and while he took it too far at times, i am glad someone finally came out and said it. the article was extremely unfair...

September 26, 2007 at 9:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

OPHawker (anonymous) says...

Chucky,
Which class in journalism school do they teach blindly coming to the defense of any dim-witted reporter? Any negative comment or criticism of reporters, columnists, whatever and you all walk in lock step pissing & moaning. Just look around, name me ONE media type that agrees with Gundy. She was wrong, she got called out for it and was made to look like the fool she is!

And you wonder why the public is skeptical of the media!

September 26, 2007 at 11:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jhwkfan162515 (anonymous) says...

I don't care if she is a KU grad or not. Believe it or not, I am actually glad to see Oklahoma State beat Kansas in this case!

September 27, 2007 at 8:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

speedy (anonymous) says...

lets be clear about how we feel about throwing a player under the bus.
this group of ku fans threw a certain bb player under the bus. no not giles, or giddons or pagent or any number of ex players over the past couple of years. how about the trashing of a conzaga forward who was treated badly by our coach and was smart enough to cut and run to where he got some respect.
wonder who next on the list.

October 5, 2007 at 11:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

speedy (anonymous) says...

most of us watch espn and their reporters. its amazing how biased and incorrect they are. rome is a joke most of the time. remember he picked kent. n c. and indiana as the three top bb schools of all time. he had never heard of ku tradition.
most of the reporters do not even know the rules. remember last year when espn ridiculed a coach for refusing to hand over the bb to the other teams player on the sidelines? only the ref can put the bb in play. espn coverage of the ok. st. coach is the same biased coverage. shure things ere said that could have been said in private but the whole world now knows a reporter had better not demean with spec. about why a player is off the field.
two wrongs do not make a right but may correct things in the future.

October 5, 2007 at 11:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

JimmyJoeBob (anonymous) says...

What was Woodling thinking when he said Gundy should have taken care of this in private. If a columnist is going to print a critical PUBLIC article they should expect a PUBLIC @#$ chewing like she got. I think she is fair game when she writes a less than average article. She is a PUBLIC figuer also. Nice job Gundy. Woodling showed his bias for a former co-worker. His article was not very good either. Too emotional.

October 7, 2007 at 12:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )