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Sunday, November 26, 2017

Keegan

Tom Keegan: Future as bleak as the present for Kansas football

Kansas head coach David Beaty runs off the field following the Jayhawks' 38-9 loss to Baylor on Saturday, Sept. 4, 2017 at Memorial Stadium. Before Saturday's game, Baylor was winless on the season.

Kansas head coach David Beaty runs off the field following the Jayhawks' 38-9 loss to Baylor on Saturday, Sept. 4, 2017 at Memorial Stadium. Before Saturday's game, Baylor was winless on the season.

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The Kansas football fan was floored by a left-right combination delivered in blurry-quick fashion Saturday afternoon. To many, it felt as if two football seasons ended in an instant.

The left to the jaw: Oklahoma State 58, Kansas 17, the 1-11, 2017, season over. The right to the chin: KU athletic director Sheahon Zenger released a statement that indicated head coach David Beaty would return, which in effect killed interest in the 2018 season.

No other college football program would have decided to bring back for a fourth season a coach with records of 3-33 overall and 1-32 vs. FBS competition. Ditto for an athletic director whose six years of football hires have combined for a 10-62 overall record, 5-61 vs. FBS schools.

So why did KU do what no other school would consider doing?

The easy answer: You can’t fire Beaty without firing Zenger. And canning the AD would imperil fundraising for the $300 million Memorial Stadium renovation project. Not buying it. That supposes that Zenger is a better fundraiser than anyone KU would hire to replace him. Where is the evidence for that for an AD who started his last football hire at $800,000?

I think the real answer resides 180 degrees from that explanation. Zenger’s flaws as a fundraiser actually might have had more to do with it. The idea of buying out a head coach for $3 million, plus an AD for $1.4 million and assistant coaches for another $2 million or so was so intimidating, it froze everyone into inaction and the can was kicked down the road another year — at which point Zenger and Beaty still will have the same buyouts.

Bringing in a new AD and head football coach would have created hope for KU football fans who remember that Mark Mangino inherited a mess and in eight seasons posted a winning record and a 3-1 mark in bowl games. Those fans know that it’s possible to win at Kansas because they saw it.

Bringing in new leaders would have breathed life into the facilities campaign. The unknown always looks better than the known, especially when the known AD hired football coaches who combined for a 5-61 record vs. FBS competition.

Zenger in his statement called the 2017 results "not acceptable," a classic case of listen to what I say and ignore what I do, given that the coach responsible for the "not acceptable" record is being brought back for a fourth season with a 3-33 mark.

“Thanks to some amazing benefactors who understand what it takes to build a program, we plan to provide our coaching staff with even more recruiting resources,” Zenger said in his statement.

So the benefactors know what it takes? Doesn’t everybody know?

It takes a head football coach who knows how to run a program and leads with obsessive attention to detail in everything from assembling a staff to driving those assistants to succeed in every aspect of their jobs to then holding them accountable. It takes evaluating recruits accurately and instilling discipline that manifests itself in every aspect of the program. It takes creating an environment in which players improve and give themselves the best shot at staying healthy.

It takes humility, an aversion to excuse-making, adhering to high standards and setting high expectations.

So much for high expectations if 3-33 is good enough and so much for not making excuses if an implicit message in Zenger’s statement is that KU is in this mess because it falls short in facilities comparisons. To believe that is to believe it's the donors' fault for not ponying up enough money all these years. Again, not buying it.

In preparation for the Orange Bowl after the 2007 season, Mangino had his teams walking through snow banks to practice at Memorial Stadium. Sure, where you practice helps in recruiting, but how you practice means far more. A coach who evaluates well enough to minimize recruiting mistakes will have better practices at mediocre facilities than a coach who brings in the wrong talent even if that talent practices in state-of-the-art buildings.

Kansas is 1-26 in Big 12 games in Beaty’s three seasons and went winless in conference for the second time in three years. KU was outscored by an average of 48-12 in Big 12 games in 2015, 46-14 this season. That’s an improvement of four points in two years, from 36-point underdog to 32. At that rate of two-year improvement, KU will break even in 2033, Beaty’s 19th season.

For the ninth consecutive season, KU will not participate in a bowl game.

Rebuilding efforts at Purdue (6-6), Virginia (6-6) and Wake Forest (7-5) have led the three schools to bowl eligibility this season. Next to KU’s nine-year drought, the longest ones among power-five football conferences belong to Oregon State and Syracuse, each with four-year droughts.

Nine years is a long time, so long that complacency has taken root and 3-33 is good enough to earn a fourth year and a $100,000 raise.

Comments

Brian Skelly 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Apathy is the biggest problem here. No one cares enough places of power at KU to change things.

There are bowl eligible teams that are firing their coaches. KU is asleep at the wheel.

Again, no malice here, but Beaty and Zenger arent good at their jobs, and shouldnt be rewarded for that.

In a results based business, the results arent there.

Bill McGovern 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Keep it up Keegan! I honestly want Beaty to succeed, I have nothing against the guy and I hope next year will work out. But from what we've seen over the last three seasons, nothing indicates that next season will be any different. I predict another 1-11 season at this pace, and I hate it. I wanted Beaty to be the guy to bring us back to success but clearly it's not working out.

Brian Wilson 2 weeks, 5 days ago

I disagree that nothing indicates that next season will be any different. I predict the turn around starts next year and we get 3 wins. If you evaluate the past two recruiting classes against what we had in Juniors and Seniors this year....with what would happen if we fire Beaty , you realize keeping him for one more year is necessary. Once the current Sophomore class turn into Juniors it will make hard for them to leave to another school if there is a coaching change.... the Sophomores are the largest pool of talent on this team right now...that's where the talent is developing.....and that's where we have a chance to add and fill some holes that may bring results. The current freshman class is the next largest pool of real talent....the current group of Juniors and Seniors on average are pretty thin at best on talent.

If you fire Beaty this year.....then you have the largest pools of talent, Freshmen and Sophomores, all jumping ship for other schools. and so this is a good reason to keep Beatty two more seasons.

Once those players become upper classmen they want to finish school out where they started.

Charlie Gaughn 2 weeks, 4 days ago

Brian, I love your optimism but where are the 3 wins coming from? Certainly not within the conference because this was the year we had the schedule set up to win a conference game at home. That leaves at Central Michigan, at home against Rutgers, and at home against Nicholls State. The only way we show improvement over this year is if we pay Nicholls State a larger sum of money than we already will to move the game to their place just to say we finally won a road game!

Keeping a clueless HC and even more clueless AD just to secure a bunch of mediocre underclassmen seems like a ridiculous idea. Can you honestly say you've seen a lot of player development under the current staff?

I suggest you look at the school just to the west. They recruited a local QB, redshirted him, and he will be the next thorn in our butt for the next 3 years. They did that with a 78 year old coach that is in questionable health, but he KNOWS HOW TO DEVELOP PLAYERS! We can stay the course for another year but the end result is going to be a 1-11 season and a complete destruction of fan support.

Bill McGovern 2 weeks, 3 days ago

I hope you are right Brian, I really do. Feels like the program is cursed.

Jeff Coffman 2 weeks, 6 days ago

There should be absolutely zero season tickets bought until a change is made.

Jeff Coffman 2 weeks, 6 days ago

0-6 against Non power five teams. 1-26 against B12 teams.

That's Beaty...I can't even calculate how bad zenger is

Brett McCabe 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Tom, I've been waiting all day for your article, thank you. Ive notified my ticket sales guy that we won't be renewing next year and wished him luck, and also advised him to send his resume to a school that actually cares about football. There is nothing worse than watching a young man waste his career working for people who have either no clue or no concern about what they are doing.

This is a sad, sad day in KU football history. Really sad for me because it's the day I've said that enough is enough. I'm done.

Those of you who think that this is good enough, good luck to you. I respect your commitment but question your intelligence.

Look to other programs in the country: ASU, UCLA, Tennessee, Nebraska....all made a decision to move away from coaches who were far, far more successful than Beaty. For them, average just wasn't good enough. At KU, epically, embarrassingly, pathetically and comically bad isn't just good enough, it deserves a raise.

It's an insult to KU football fans. The arrogance is the only impressive thing about it.

To KU basketball supporters, I ask for your help. Maybe if you greet Zenger with some boos, bring some signs into the Fieldhouse, do something visual, maybe you'll get someone to give the program some of the right kind of attention. Because right now, Girod, Zenger and Beaty are loving it to death.

John Fitzgerald 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Right there with you, Brett. I won’t be renewing my 8 season tickets and have cancelled my Williams Fund Donations. All the ignorant donors and Beaty lovers can enjoy the empty stadiums and a$$ beatings to themselves. They’re stupid enough I don’t think they would care anyways.

Mike Hart 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Anyone who disagrees...is not automatically a Beaty lover. I think you hire a guy... you make a commitment to the guy... a guy who inherits a program in the worst shape imaginable... then you give him 4 years to bring in his recruits and make progress. I'm 100% on board for a new coach if Beaty fails next year. Question intelligence all you want, but you have now set yourselves up to actually be rooting AGAINST KU football..just so you can appear to be "right" and have proven your point. Not sure how that is really helping the program...nor the players who are taking the field every week, representing our University. You all have made this much bigger than Beaty. You guys have crossed lines and attacked the human character of our players (handshake incident). Trashing the program at EVERY turn is helping no one...other than your own desire to vent... and to now wait.. with mouth watering... to have the next opportunity to tear into Beaty now, in the offseason... and next season. If you don't support the football team... are now "done with KU football"... and won't support the team by going to games or watching (which is funny... because you WILL be watching anyway!! chuckle)... then resist the urge to come here next year and post about the team and the games. This losing ... is a tough pill for any KU fan to swallow... but even tougher is when KU football fans and Tom Keegan come here ... not 24 hours removed from the end of the season.. and say that NEXT season is a 100% lost cause with no hope for improvement. You all are more than entitled to FEEL that way, but for any die-hard fan who chooses to continue to support the team, why do you insist on making that an even tougher endeavor for us? I don't think any of you are more or less intelligent than anyone else on here. To ridicule someone for feeling differently than you do, is out of line...and is unnecessary. Change will come in 2019 if 2018 is another miserable season... so why not just take a year off... rather than make it as difficult as possible for everyone else to support the team. We still have Devonta Jason, 5 star WR who has YET to decommit. Why be as negative as possible to damage football prospects for years to come by continuing to trash the program?

John Fitzgerald 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Just letting you know I didn’t even bother to read your response. Waste of time. Also, 3-33. You’re welcome.

Mike Hart 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Ok, John? Is that supposed to hurt my feelings? Yes, 3-33..and he's back next year. Now you deal with it....or not. Have a nice day.

Jeff Coffman 2 weeks, 5 days ago

I thought in year 3 we would see progress... now it is year 4, at what point do we see progress... after 4 offensive coordinators, how about 2 defensive coordinators, oh wait lets switch our recruiting coordinator, no we have three bad QBs...lets get another, oh lets go back to the bad one, no our punt returnees can't catch... oh ill oversee that... no lets get more recruiting out of Texas... nope no Louisiana, but we need to win the Kansas local kids... oh can't win those, lets not do jucos, now 30% of who we recruit are jucos. The good news is progress... at least according to Beatty. The results are unacceptable to Zinger, but he keeps him... this is what is happening.

Joe Black 2 weeks, 4 days ago

Was there ever a point made in your rant? You just rambled. Stop, think and make it coherent. Not disagreeing with you, just trying to figure out what you're saying.

Len Shaffer 2 weeks, 4 days ago

It might not have been the most grammatically correct comment in the world but it still made perfect sense to me. It shows the flabbergasting lack of consistency in Beaty's "decision-making" and is one of the prime reasons why I (and so many others) have no hope for next year).

And Micky, as I said elsewhere, I would be THRILLED to be proven wrong. I just don't think there's a prayer of that happening.

Jerry Walker 2 weeks, 5 days ago

"make it as difficult as possible for everyone else to support the team." -- Mike

I think you wandered off course with that. Someone else's opinion should have no bearing on how you support the Hawks...and your bellyaching about negative fans as a reason for the absolute failure of Beaty and his staff is pure silliness.

Chris Shaw 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Well, your first mistake, Brett is thinking that KU football is on the same level as any of those schools in ASU, UCLA, Tennessee and Nebraska. Two warm climate schools, 1 plays in the SEC, and Nebraska is like Kansas Basketball. I’m sorry, you can’t compare The Kansas Football program to any of those schools and if you do...”you really don’t get it”. I would expect more from a season ticket holder than your knee jerk reactions.

Jeff Coffman 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Win 2 games get an $800000 raise, win 1 game and get a $100000 raise... way to earn it.

Brian Skelly 2 weeks, 5 days ago

It's called "Failing upward". You could argue a lot of folks in bureaucracies do it. This is no different.

Joe Black 2 weeks, 4 days ago

Come to think of it, that does remind me of how politicians think.

Len Shaffer 2 weeks, 4 days ago

Now I've got it, Brian: Zenger and Girod are like the management consultants in Office Space!

Gary McCullough 2 weeks, 6 days ago

I would rather you write about the program without the editorial comments. I attended KU, and I send a modest check to the University every year. I don't appreciate you spending my donations when money needs spending on much more important goals, like the stadium upgrades. You can call for new personnel in the Athletic Department when you put some skin in the game (i.e., donate money to the University). But you've judged Coach Beatty as incapable of running the team after only 3 years? Don't you remember the hole our former head coach left the program? Perhaps Beatty isn't the right coach for the team, but three years isn't enough time to turn around the train wreck Charlie Weis left us.

Jeff Coffman 2 weeks, 6 days ago

What makes you think Beaty can run the team after three years?

The competitive game against a Dii team or getting smashed by two lackluster MAC teams this year? Both 8-4.

We should have an expectation of wins outside the P-5.

Joe Norgay 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Three years is not enough time to make us a powerhouse program, yes. But we should see some sort of progress. Something tangible. Beaty has shown us ZERO in year three. THE MAN HIMSELF EVEN SAID THIS IS THE YEAR WE SHOULD SEE DIVIDENDS. Hell, Dana Anderson (who may or may not be why we can't fire Beaty/Zenger) said the 3rd year is the year we should see progress. And guess what, no progress is shown and the powers that be just spit out word vomit to try and appease the masses.

Beaty had a hell of a task in front of him which is why winning zero games was ok, two last year was ok, but one this year? It's just clear.. he can't coach football. He doesn't know what he's doing. Questionable calls left and right. He makes mistakes that even rookie head coaches stop making after the first year.

Have you even watched any of the football games?

Cora Smith 2 weeks, 6 days ago

3 years and one senior who played consistently is not enough.

Armen Kurdian 2 weeks, 5 days ago

In several of our games you see it is individual football skills that are not there in dropped passes, missed passes, missed tackles, missed blocks, basic skillsets that fail individual players in the early going of a game that leads to larger systemic failures throughout the game. And lack of discipline...we've all said it, the kind of response HCDB gave after the OU coin toss was flat out unacceptable. Personally I hope OU wins it all...will be nice to see a Big XII team win vice an SEC for once.

I was a Beatty fan, not so much anymore.

Brian Leslie 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Gary, you seriously think you have more "skin in the game" than the long-time sports editor of the Journal-World? The Journal-World has plenty of fact-based articles (depressing as they are) about the actual games. This is an opinion column. If you don't understand the difference, then shame on my alma mater for not giving you a better education.

Kevin Robert Fest 2 weeks, 6 days ago

It's not about the "Jimmies and the Joes" anymore its,all about how the $ flows. If the Big Donors want twiddle dumb and dumber, well guess what they get them. If the University doesn't want to pay the buyouts well 2018 will be a sad copy of this year. Newer facilities, stadium, locker rooms, practice facilities etc but a horrible field product in the end l guess is acceptable. $ talks F everything else l guess is the conventional wisdom here.

David Kemp 2 weeks, 6 days ago

30k unsold seats translates into a lot of money!

Jeff Coffman 2 weeks, 6 days ago

For those that think we are going 1-11; Nicholls is better than Semo...plan an 0-12 season under this coaching staff.

John Fitzgerald 2 weeks, 6 days ago

I’d put the money I usually spend on my season tickets on KU going 0-12 next year. And instead of wasting that money I’d make it back and more.

Mike Hart 2 weeks, 5 days ago

John, I challenge you to do just that.. bet on an 0-12 KU team next year. You've got a taker on that bet right here.

[''] 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Gary,

After "only" 3 years??

Have you seen Scott Frost at UCF turn 0-12 into 12-0 in 2 years?

Have you seen Matt Campbell turn around Iowa State into a bowl eligible team in only 2 years in that recruiting hotbed of Ames, Iowa???

Beaty gets slaughtered by MAC teams at home in his THIRD SEASON.

There is not a single MAC team that Beaty could defeat at home. Beaty would take Saban's team and go 3-9.

Jeff Coffman 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Zenger please provide the metrics you are using for success. The KU alumni and fan bases do not understand any of your logic and would like to understand it so we can at least pretend to support you.

Joe Norgay 2 weeks, 6 days ago

CHANCELLOR@KU.EDU

p>CHANCELLOR@KU.EDU>

Send him your emails that this is unacceptable. Voice your displeasure in any other way you can. When fans are scheming plans to disrupt the basketball games in order to bring attention to the disaster that is football, well then you know things are dire.

This is so incomprehensible that Girod would allow this to continue that you have to start wondering if there is illegal activity going on or something that would explain this absolute mind bogglingly bad direction to continue.

Whatever the reason, Girod owes us an explanation of the 'vision' or Zenger's laughable 'for those of us that know what it takes' words. Tell us why you're continuing a complete failure of a program when the entire country is staring at us wondering what they hell were doing. If it's big money donors holding the program hostage, tell us. If you know something we don't, tell us.

This must stop.

John Brazelton 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Tom, there's an old saying, "Those who can do, those who can't teach" or write sports articles at a small-town newspaper about what a genius they are about a sport that they've never played at a D1 level. You're just jealous because Beaty makes 1.6 million, plus bonuses, Zenger makes $700,000, plus bonuses and if you're lucky, you make $50K, plus travel expenses. Also, it would help if you were actually in physical shape, instead, from your photos, you're an out-of-shape fat slob! In my opinion, you're not worthy of picking up the wet jock straps of our walk-on football athletes. Tom, the decisions have been made for next year, get over your personal jealousy. If the managing editor of the Lawrence Journal World have any real gonads, he would replace you as Sports Director with one of your better trained assistants.

Jeff Coffman 2 weeks, 6 days ago

I think it is funny that you say $1.6mm + bonuses... like Beaty earned or received any bonuses.

It seems like based on your logic only rich people can criticize others. I also think it is exciting news according to you, only slender people are able to talk about football.

Brett McCabe 2 weeks, 6 days ago

I guess he forgot about the Phat Man. Clearly, he knew nothing about football.

Bill McGovern 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Brazelton with his idiotic attacks on Keegan. JB must be best friends with either Girod, or Zenger or Beaty, otherwise I can't understand his comments. JB, you have some serious issues my boy.

Kevin Studer 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Oh, so only people with high salaries and athletic bodies are allowed to have opinions about sports now. Thanks, JB. I will make sure to tell all of the teachers I work with that they don't make enough money to talk about sports anymore.

Gordon Penny 2 weeks, 6 days ago

I am also tired of the attacks on HCDB. I believe he will win.

Mike Hart 2 weeks, 5 days ago

So everyone who currently hates Beaty and the KU football program as it currently exists: Congratulations...you can take a year's hiatus from "supporting" the program in 2018. If Beaty fails in 2018, he will be gone. And then you can come back and "support" the team again in 2019, hopefully not like you have supported the program in 2017. I mean not 24 hours removed from end of 2017... and everyone is already predicting 0-12 for next year. Even worse, you are hoping we go 0-12 so that you can look like accurate, bold prognosticators. Ugh...

Jeff Coffman 2 weeks, 5 days ago

What makes you think we will win more next year?

Jerry Walker 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Your continued nagging at fans lack of support for the abysmal product is just Pollyana drivel. If anything your laissez faire attitude is more complicit...a classic case of an enabler.

Len Shaffer 2 weeks, 4 days ago

You said it perfectly, Jerry. Enablers indeed ... it is truly incomprehensible how people can continue to defend someone who is so obviously in WAY over his head.

David Kemp 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Maybe your those who can do phrase should more apply to Beaty because it’s obvious to everybody in the sporting world he can’t coach. He may be a great assistant but not a head coach. Tom is not off base here. Just trying for some accountability for this mess. Read the Star, capitol journal, Wichita eagle, nobody is clapping about this decision

Bradley Hope 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Ad Hominem attacks on Keegan aren't an argument against his premise. As for me, its clear the University of Kansas no longer values my time nor my money so they will get neither from me anymore.

Mick Dupas 2 weeks, 5 days ago

I dare you to try teaching...elementary classroom teachers have one of the toughest and low paying jobs in America...there a reason elementary classroom teachers are 80-90 % female...MEN cannot, or do not want the job !

Joe Black 2 weeks, 4 days ago

They could make more money if they got 12 month a year jobs instead of 9.

Al Martin 2 weeks, 3 days ago

Great idea! Let's have them all do that, and then we won't have any teachers!

John Fitzgerald 2 weeks, 6 days ago

I’m looking for any one who still thinks Beaty deserves this 4th year to provide me with 3 counter stats to what Tom listed above that prove he’s made significant progress. Please, humor me.

Sae Thirtysix 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Three exemplary counter stats:

  1. Facial expression of TKegan finding out the donuts box is empty
  2. Rants of BonnieMcCob
  3. Anyone hinding behind a keyboard calling another poster a "turd"

now you can feel indulged

John Fitzgerald 2 weeks, 5 days ago

If I was you I’d hide behind a fake name, too. You can’t make up your level of stupidity. It’s actually impressive.

Sae Thirtysix 2 weeks, 5 days ago

ooh, ouch. grab another donut with your buddy TKegan. you have to be getting exhausted.

David A. Smith 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Coach Beaty and Zenger are in place. Period. Friendly fire, public humiliations, pot stirring, bad press, and Tweeting our recruits to discourage them from attending KU is beyond stupid.

For people that claim to want good football, this is just dumb. Recruits read, too.

Joe Norgay 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Your whole argument is invalidated by your "Period." statement. As if that is supposed to mean something to people who "want good football".

"Hey guys, we're gonna keep savagely beating you with a stick for no good reason. You're gonna sit there and do nothing because that's the way it is. Period." Oh ok. We'll just continue to take it because you said "Period."

Quit aligning yourself with failure and do something productive with your life and demand change. Otherwise, tell Zenger/Beaty good afternoon for me.

Mike Hart 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Actually, Joe: The point of David Smith's response is that no matter how much you jump up and down and wave your hands, Beaty is coming back for 2018. So the ball is in YOUR court now... to either support the team... or not. All this negative diatribe (if it has any impact)... is a negative impact to any recruit who might read this.. and further discourages anyone who supports the KU football team (regardless of who is coaching it). The negative rants on Beaty are the only savage beatings going on here in this forum.

Jeff Coffman 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Many of us still believe there is going to be a change.

Brian Leslie 2 weeks, 5 days ago

When Girod confirms they are back, again, then it's really over. Zenger's statement doesn't mean much as he is obviously chained at the ankle to Beaty. If Girod was going to let them go, it probably wouldn't be on a holiday weekend (although that didn't stop some big-boys programs this weekend), so we'll see what happens in the next couple of days.

After that, the posters that want to endlessly backslap everybody associated with KU's football program will finally, FINALLY, have the kusports comments section to themselves, because I think the rest of us who really care and have standards above "worst Division One program in history" will find better things to do with our lives.

Robert Brock 2 weeks, 6 days ago

The KU Chancellor lacks a backbone. Sheahon Zenger should be terminated immediately.

Jeff Coffman 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Tomorrow I will agree, but I'm hoping Girod was giving the holiday weekend.

Joe Norgay 2 weeks, 6 days ago

The miserable, greedy people in the AD and football office are accumulating multigenerational wealth at the expense of burning the program to the ground and losing the support of alumni and life-long fans. And the administrative team is a-okay with that. KU deserves all the scorn, ridicule and embarrassment it has coming.

Cora Smith 2 weeks, 6 days ago

I was one of the few who defended Mangino when he got fired. I was lit up on this blog because he was too harsh. Allegations against Mangino were more than 5 years old. Where were the rest of you when he was fighting for his coaching job?

Al Martin 2 weeks, 5 days ago

I was agreeing with you, duh. But what the heck does that have to do with anything eight years later?

Joe Norgay 2 weeks, 6 days ago

We are certainly the most dysfunctional university in D-1. No other university compares to the stupidity and ineptitude of Kansas. Do we really even deserve to be in a power conference? What in the hell recommends us? Because we want to be? Because we have a good basketball program? We have either the dumbest or most corrupt athletic director in the nation. We have the most inept and clueless head coach with a lackluster staff, and a defensive coordinator who just gave up 58 points in game 12 of the season but is called the best in the business by the same clueless head coach. We have a chancellor who apparently thinks everything is just fine. How would we even convince anyone that we should be in a power conference with either a corrupt, or completely inept athletic department?

Joe Norgay 2 weeks, 6 days ago

KU is the first NCAA P5 school to eschew the NCAA death penalty and opt instead for football program seppuku.

Lawrence McGlinn 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Awesome comment!! I had to get up off the floor to respond.

Michael Leiker 2 weeks, 6 days ago

This really feels like Zenger giving Girod his reason to show him the door. Really feels like Zenger wants out and is giving them an avenue to do it

Barry Weiss 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Arizona State just fired their head football coach because he went 46-31 over the last 6 years. The president of the university said a losing record, more than one year in a row, in any sport, is not acceptable....... Kansas University does not even have the mindset to understand that in football. We let a guy take us 1-32 and we call that progress... we are toast.

Mike Hart 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Damn, I guess Joe Paterno should have been fired at Penn State for 2 losing seasons in a row... Lou Holtz started his coaching career with 3 straight losing seasons at William & Mary. He was let go... I bet that was a great decision by William & Mary... no regrets there I'm sure. My point is not to compare Beaty to coaching greats... but the ridiculous premise that a coach who has 2 losing seasons in a row... should be fired.

David Kemp 2 weeks, 5 days ago

I’m sorry but Beaty is no Lou holtz or joe paterno

Mike Hart 2 weeks, 5 days ago

David... my post specifically said I wasn't comparing Beaty to the coaching greats. No one at William & Mary thought Lou Holtz was great when he lost 3 years in a row to start his career as HC. For a University President to paint all coaches with a broad brush by saying any coach should be fired for 2 straight losing seasons... is a dumb statement... especially for someone to use that as justification in an argument (a la Barry Weiss above).

Barry Weiss 2 weeks, 5 days ago

If you can't see the difference between 46-31 and 1-32, then you deserve 1-32.

Larry Smith 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Considering the state of the program when he took over, and the fact that we went bargain hunting for a coach, we must let these last 2 years play out. I kept saying it was a mistke to fire Gill after 2 seasons because no real football coach would want to come to a program that fires coaches before they are even able to use their own recruits. That's how we end up with Wies. Probably the worst college coach ever, and he left the program decimated. If you really want to attract a coach worth his salt, and that is willing to try and ressurect this now moribund program, they will want to believe that they will be given a shot and patience will be shown. You can't achieve that, and you can't convince the good ones to come by firing your head coach every 2-3 years. These next 2 years may be awful as well, but at least then, we can convince an up and comer that he will be given a fair shot.

Brian Leslie 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Larry, I think most of us would be OK with firing Zenger and then the new AD evaluates Beaty over his fourth season -- and that AD is realistically working the back channels for the next year to see who would be interested in the job. It's impossible to defend Zenger at this point, but I can see a principled argument (even if I strongly disagree at this point) for Beaty being given a fourth year.

Brett McCabe 2 weeks, 6 days ago

I think you're wrong. Beaty has proven only one thing - he can't coach.

David Kemp 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Nobody is going to fault a program firing a coach who is 1-32 against non fcs. Most of the media is saying we have to.

Brett McCabe 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Actually, keeping Beaty might send a sign to potential coaches that we are clueless, careless or carefree. Right now, people all over the country are just shaking their heads.

[''] 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Larryl,

A new coach will want to know that patience will be shown??

U of Alabama fired 4 coaches in 10 years from 1997-2007 before hiring Nick Saban. You keep firing til you get it right. Many of those Alabama coaches got 2 years on the job. You think Saban was terrified that Alabama fired 4 coaches before him in just 10 years??

Larry Smith 2 weeks, 5 days ago

You are talking about Alabama, not Kansas. They have more money, resources, access to recruits, and reputation than we will ever have. They fire guys for not winning championships, not for not winning games. It's an entirely different mindset. All of the coaches in the nation would line up to go the Alabama no matter how bad they were, because it is a destination job. Kansas isn't. How do you think the folks in Nebraska feel about the coaching changes since they fired Solich? Btw, I am not defending Beatty as a coach, just saying that part of the process to getting a better coach, means we may have to suffer through a couple more bad years.

Chris Bailey 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Tom,

Let's be clear it's 10 years because we won't see a damn thing that resembles improvement next season either! Thus we can probably figure on adding 2 more so make it 12. And if this keeps up 2022 will be here and we will be dancing into a spot in a POWER MAC school.

Craig Carson 2 weeks, 5 days ago

no, KU wont be in Power MAC conference..Im assuming you think the Big 12 will disappear..it most likely wont, it benefits every school for it to remain, and yes that includes OU and TX..but if it does disappear then it will be absorbed into the other P5 conference to form 4 super conferences..no BIG 12 team is gonna be relegated to a non power conference

David Kemp 2 weeks, 6 days ago

Coaching hot seat “ Kansas AD has no damn clue what he is doing” is 2-10 enough in 2017 to get Beaty a fourth year, “this is Kansas fb we are talking about that would be a big Yep” unfortunately he didn’t go 2-10, he went 1-11 making authors statement say”they haven’t got a damn clue”

Mick Dupas 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Since he IS coming back...I would hope all KU fans expect at LEAST a 4 or 5 win season, I wish Zenger had enough courage to say that in public.

David Kemp 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Agree, there is no expectation for accountability. There should have been a floor put in last year.

Brett McCabe 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Other than Nichols, we will likely be an underdog in every game.

Baylor will be improved, Iowa State will be good, with or without Campbell, K-State will be better, TTU will be the same, OSU, TCU and OU will be who they always are. Our best chance was this year, with a winless Baylor, a below-average TTU and an average WVU team at Memorial. Next year, they are all on the road, in addition to OU and KSU (we are four at home and five away next season).

Rutgers here is conceivably winnable game but that's what we though about CMU. Away for CMU seems like a reach. So, I'm guessing our over/under next season is 1.5 in Vegas. Would two wins represent improvement? Not in the fourth year, but with Zenger in charge, another 1-11 year will probably get raises all around.

Jeff Coffman 2 weeks, 5 days ago

I'm not convinced we will be favored against Nicholls

Richard Duran 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Last-place Jayhawks

While KU obviously finished last in the Big 12 standings in 2017, with the program’s second winless conference campaign of Beaty’s tenure, the Jayhawks also ended the season 10th in a number of statistical categories.

In conference play, Kansas finished worst in scoring offense (14.3 points), scoring defense (46.4 points allowed), total offense (287.8 yards), total defense (480.8 yards allowed), rushing offense (100.3 yards), pass efficiency (98.1, more than 100 points behind Oklahoma’s first-place 199.1), pass efficiency defense (172.7), first downs (13.9 a game), third-down conversions (26.3 percent), time of possession (27:35 on average), turnover margin (minus-14) and red zone defense (91.3 opponent scoring percentage).

I see no reason for optimism. Nebraska fired a guy with a .500 record. Arizona St. Fired a guy who won 7 games this year. Les Miles was fired after averaging 10 wins.

All you good basketball fans just remember that when the Big 12 Kicks us out for averaging 5000 fans a game we will end up playing in the American conference or the Mountain West. Or be like New Mexico St., who plays Alabama in November for the $$$. We'll be in the Mountain West as a basketball only school and an independent in football, playing at Ohio St., USC and the like for the paychecks. And then the Adidas money will dry up, and no new Memorial Stadium. Zenger and Beatty have to go.

Kevin Heath 2 weeks, 5 days ago

The performance on the field speaks for itself. Since this is really all about money I have a few questions.

1) Do people recognize that there are people fighting over seats in a 16,300 seat venue where the event lasts roughly 2-2.5 hours while the university can't give away tickets to a 50,000+ seat venue where the event last 3-3.5 hours. That is a significant loss in ticket and concession revenue. If this is going to be run like a business then that revenue gap in football must be addressed.

2) With that in mind, how have donations to the Williams Fund been from those who do not hold mens' basketball tickets? I'm going to guess that non-basketball based donations are declining. This is why the select-a-seat process is changing next year. The only means to increase revenue is to do it via mens' basketball.

3) How is the athletic department preparing for the next generation of "big donors?" The current regulars are for the most part 70+, with several at or over 80.

If this is a performance business then show us the performance...either with on-field results or financial.

At the end of the day, on a personal level, I'm just sad that I can't get excited for KU football. I love game day. I love going to games, but not these. I have no desire to spend a Saturday afternoon watching them get destroyed. It just isn't fun. That's what bothers me the most.

David Kemp 2 weeks, 5 days ago

As I said earlier if you had 25k more fans in stadium between donations, tickets and concessions your probably in the neighborhood of 25 mil per year.

Ralph Gage 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Calling Al Bohl! Where are you when we need you?

Brian Skelly 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Almost more than Beaty being fired or not fired, I fear that Zenger would get another shot at hiring a head football coach. This cannot happen in any circumstances, and I cant emphasize this strongly enough. We're failing because the people at the top are failing.
While Beaty being canned would probably start the train moving sooner, the reality is we're stuck until people who matter decide Zenger has to go.
MULTIPLE programs who are bowl eligible have fired guys in the last 72 hours. People who make decisions either just dont get it, or just dont care.
A 10k per game increase in attendance would likely cover any buyout. Let's quit pretending it's about money.

John Brazelton 2 weeks, 5 days ago

When the winning starts next season, there's going to be an awful lot of posters on this site eating crow.

Brett McCabe 2 weeks, 5 days ago

He'll be going to battle with the 10th and 9th ranked recruiting classes in the conference on the field. Whatever you think of Beaty, there is only one coach in this conference that can succeed without recruiting, and he's getting ready for a bowl game with the third-youngest team in the conference.

David Kemp 2 weeks, 5 days ago

When you say winning exactly what is your floor on wins?

Mick Dupas 2 weeks, 5 days ago

define "winning" for next season...number of wins needed to eat crow???

Al Martin 2 weeks, 5 days ago

I agree, with Mick, John. Give us a hard prediction. Care to back that prediction up? I'll take a serious bet.

Clarence Haynes 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Only if the donors demand dismissal for dollars will it happen.

Kevin Robert Fest 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Exactly is 2 wins or maybe 3 considered winning? But if they are blown out by double digits by half time is it still considered winning because they won more than one game.

John after the last 3 years of this regime how are you seriously optimistic about next year. It's not just about the losses but the same inept play, missed tackles, dropped passes, false starts etc etc etc, year after year. Im glad that you are a positive person but get real.

We will all be eating something next year it certainly won't be crow.

Mallory Briggans 2 weeks, 5 days ago

in 2014 UAB shut down its football program due to budget cuts . 2017 UAB brought back football to the university. They finished this season..........8- 4 UAB started this season from scratch after a 2 year hiatus and won 8 games .....I think coaching has a bit to do with it .

Lloyd Kinnison 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Send your concerns to the KU President. That is only wat to bring change:

Robert Brock 2 weeks, 5 days ago

The price of admission to a KU game, next season, will be a can of soup for the Food Bank. Worthy cause.

Thomas Green 2 weeks, 5 days ago

I hope Tom Keegan continues to push for an interview with Girod! I think it’s imperative for him to answer questions as to how and why he has arrived at this decision. To simply issue a letter and then stick your head in the sand is simply unacceptable!

DB Ashton 2 weeks, 5 days ago

By my count, 23 D1 head football coaches were terminated before the 2017 season. So far, some 12 will be replaced for 2018, not a week gone in regular play for most. That's a two-year turnover of 27% -- I believe there are 130 head coaching positions available in the division.

Mr Beaty's performance has been inferior to ALL 35 of these gentlemen, as measured by wins and losses, and his trend line is flat, not downward only because it's essentially as low as one can go. The data suggests there is no person in his business who is as bad at it as he is. He is the very worst one.

So what's clear by retaining Mr Beaty is that the University of Kansas does not apply the metrics or standards customary among peer institutions and that it is satisfied with inferior and often embarrasing performance. KU isn't in the game, choosing not to try. This is not about Mr Beaty or Mr Zenger. I'm confident they are trying as hard and as long as they are capable. They are just not good at it. But they are good enough for someone, or some group of someones.

If this is satisfactory, just sorta' showing up, I'd prefer we stop doing it altogether.

David Kemp 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Just read the Beaty summary today on coaches hot seat.com and it is painfully obvious Kansas is being ridiculed by everybody including coaches in Big 12. At least Beatty achieved the number 1 ranking!

Jim Keen 2 weeks, 5 days ago

And to amplify on David's post regarding Beaty's #1 ranking in coacheshotseat.com...

Quote:

…and to have a Damn Moron as your AD then more the power to you folks but please don’t tell us there is anyone working at the University of Kansas that oversees the Kansas Football program that gives a Damn about…

Winning, Excellence, Pride, Class…Hell…ANYTHING AT ALL!

Last week a Coaches Hot Seat member got a text from a football assistant coach at a Big 12 Conference school that said…

“Everyone Big 12 hoping KU keeps DB least 1 more year because it’s only sure win on sked right now if Rhule gets things going at Baylor”

…and on Sunday when it was announced by Kansas that David Beaty would be back for the 2018 season that same assistant coach sent that CHS member the following text!

“KU…Yes!”

Be proud fans of Kansas Football….Oh…be so Damn proud!

Austin Lopez 2 weeks, 5 days ago

To everyone that’s not renewing there season tickets or making donations to the school how about someone start a gofundme page and we fly banners all next season long for the home games.

Bryson Stricker 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Great idea to help us land future players that will help rebuild our program. If you're going to do that, we might as well get you in a weight room and put you on the field to risk your life for a university that isn't appreciative of you.

You look big enough to try to block someone as they run you into the ground 75 plays a game.

Bryson Stricker 2 weeks, 5 days ago

I bet Keegan's wife really appreciates that he has an outlet to relieve his anger instead of at home lololololol.

(not a personal attack, just saying)

Jeff Coffman 2 weeks, 5 days ago

If it isn't a personal attack, then why did you make it personal?

Bryson Stricker 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Because I felt it needed to be said. You can say personal things without attacking them.

Bryson Stricker 2 weeks, 5 days ago

I really hope this is the last time I have to post on this matter, because I am truly sick of the KU Fan base not understanding.

David Beaty is one of the worst coaching on Saturday coaches I've seen. His game management is worse than all of your 15 year old kids who play madden every day after school. The dude has so much to learn in terms of game management, especially in a conference filled with 9 other GREAT game managers. But he's a first time D1 HC so quite frankly I expected too much out of him in those regards. (Lincoln Riley has made his FAIR share of management mistakes this year).

However, David Beaty has done a damn good job in a lot of the other areas of coaching and frankly I appreciate that. After having Turner Gill and Charlie Weis wreck our program to SH!T, we should all be more thankful that we have a guy who understands how to build a program and is doing it the right way. Frankly, he just isn't a big enough name/doesn't have the experience to have it all work seamlessly and as fast as we may like.

I see the downers try to come at David Beaty for his recruiting classes placing 9/10th in the conference. Those rankings mean literally nothing about the ability of that team to win games. We have some damn good Football players on our team that don't even show up on rankings like those. Dorance Armstrong, Daniel Wise (not a beaty player), Steven Sims, Joe Dineen(Not a beaty player) and those are just the beginning. You all are missing the biggest point that we still aren't even in a position to recruit the right way. We had a massive senior class leave last year, thus leaving us in a position that we had to put SOMEBODY on the field now when they weren't ready or experienced enough.

Beaty's original recruiting class should be redshirt sophomores this year and it is a smack in the face to even count that recruiting class against him when he had 2 months to convince kids to join the sh** show in Lawrence, KS. His first full recruiting class should be redshirt freshman this year, thus meaning they shouldn't be playing!!!!!! Yet we have Bryce Torneden, Mike Lee, Khalil Herbert, Hakeem Adeniji, Mesa Ribordy, Evan Fairs all out there. (There's more as well).

And then even this year, his most recent 2017 class. Not a single one of them should have been playing but guess what? Dom Williams, Quan Hampton and a few others were required to play when they were clearly not ready and we suffered the consequences (mistakes, injuries etc).

Nobody, I repeat NONE OF YOU/US/ME/ANYBODY AT LJW know everything it takes to rebuild a program. Sit back, be thankful we have a guy who is doing it the right way and have players who want to do it for us and enjoy the bed David Beaty is laying for our next hire who will hopefully have football knowledge. (I agree Zenger should not hire that person).

Barry Weiss 2 weeks, 5 days ago

doing it the right way? sort of like having players shame the University on national TV with the hand shake rebuff, and then sticking up for them at the pressor right after the game, before finally back tracking it the next week. Pathetic.

Bryson Stricker 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Only those who had never played a competitive down of football were the one's who felt shamed by the handshake snub.

Baker Mayfield is an unsportsmanlike dude, he knows that and it is deservingly so. Our players had a mental plan of how they wanted to get him off his game and oh damn jesus he had his worst game in two years? What in the hell are you complaining about.

Barry Weiss 2 weeks, 5 days ago

I'm complaining about the outcry across the country that a team as pathetic as KU football felt that stooping to this low level of sportsmanship would in any way help them. They need to win games which they have not been able to do under coach Beaty. If 1-32 is good for you, you are probably not much of a fan.

Mike Hart 2 weeks, 2 days ago

What's pathetic... is to judge David Beaty by the decisions that the team captains made.. just before the game. There AREN'T any other instances in which players' conduct has embarrassed the University in 3 years under Beaty. You have to go look at the basketball program to find that type of embarrassing behavior. Nice post, Bryson....

Ashwin Rao 2 weeks, 5 days ago

How can Tennessee fans make their voices heard (for good or bad, that is not the point) wrt FB coach hire, and we can't?

David Meredith 2 weeks, 4 days ago

Because Tenn. is a football school that cares passionately about that team... although I think they are wrong in this instance.... if KU basketball ever breaks, there will be plenty of outcry and people that care, that it will get fixed quickly. Most people are content to just have basketball.

Craig Carson 2 weeks, 5 days ago

The issue hasnt been talent..there is a coach not even 2 hours from Lawrence that for the last 25 years has taken average unranked players and coached team to 6+ wins and a bowl game virtually every season..Manhattan, Kansas and KSU doesnt attract a bunch of top players, but yet they win every year....COACHING has been KU's issue ever since Mangino got fired..there is no reason why any P5 team should be this bad for this long..we are going on 10 years of horrible seasons..how much longer does KU have to be EVERYONES homecoming game..how many more years do KU fans have to pray for a win in the 1st 2 games to avoid a probable win less season..there is no reason they should be THIS bad for THIS long....one word comes to mind when I think of KU football....PUTRID..as in the program is rotting away to becoming nonexistent...something has to change, this HAS to be rock bottom..doesnt it?

David Friend 2 weeks, 5 days ago

Let's look at it another way. If our BB program went 500 and missed the NCAA tournament two years in a row. Chances are there would be a coaching change. In fact the last time the bb team did not go to the tournament not due to NCAA sanctions was 1982 and that was only a one year miss. And what happened. The BB coach was fired!

David Friend 2 weeks, 5 days ago

they were on probation that year. As I said not due to NCAA sanctions. And they still finished 19-12. The 82-83 team finished 13-16 and Ted Owens was fired. The point is we are giving Beaty way more chances than our BB program would ever and more chances than any school in the country. That football powerhouse Rice just fired their coach today after 11 years for going 4-20 the last three years.

Len Shaffer 2 weeks, 4 days ago

That's not true, David. KU missed the tournament the last two years under Owens: '81-'82 and '82-'83. Believe me, I know because I was there. It still galls me that I was there for KU's last two losing seasons ...

David Friend 2 weeks, 4 days ago

Correct the last two years. So two years of of roughly 13-16 play and it was not tolerated. And Part of it was that AFH was half empty often. Lost revenue. They spent money on Larry Brown and, disco, AFH was full. Well worth it! But you get my point

Brad Watson 2 weeks, 4 days ago

i remember when Allen rarely sold out....even during Larry Brown.....Roy ball was when the sellouts began....when we hung 150 on Kentucky....the fans knew this was a new era.

Brad Watson 2 weeks, 3 days ago

I checked.... you are right....my memory remembers it differently....i was wrong...please don't hold t against me...when I was a student in the early 70's KState ...Missouri..and if Kentucky was a home game...were the only sellouts annually....We sold out Indiana and Notre Dame also...but nothing like today

Mike Hart 2 weeks, 2 days ago

Oh, so now we are praising Larry Brown? That's amusing. We want to ridicule Beaty for his team's no handshake... while we endured the scandals under Larry Brown, leading to him getting KU on probation... while he bolted, leaving someone else to hold the bag for his transgressions. Let's not mention the KU basketball department trying to get Cedric Hunter's grade changed scandal... He's had problems everywhere he has been (SMU ring a bell?). But Larry won... Larry brought money in... so we just remember his successes. You all want to praise Brown and Self... but the basketball program makes unfortunate headlines off the court over the last 3 years waaaayyyyy more than the football program... and because you want Beaty fired... it's Beaty that you single out for not doing something right. Comical, really...

Bj Cassady 2 weeks, 4 days ago

Need to flood emails about our displeasure Need to not attend FB games Need to withhold money from the program Change CHANGE CHANGE

Brad Watson 2 weeks, 4 days ago

You don't want to fire Beaty first...the axe must fall on Zenger first...then the new AD can hire the new coach...its time for the board and their court to move on Mr. Zenger quickly....before the weekend.....I like Mr. Zenger...so it isn't personal...but 3-33 cannot be rewarded with any more years....the idea is to increase season ticket sales...without ticket sales....no energy around the program....3-33...Wow.....thats as bad as it gets....1-11 every year...Really?....come on ...we can do better....I will come and coach for nothing....for free...and I will do just as well...and so can anyone else who might read this. I love our school and we all must insist on change.

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