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Saturday, March 25, 2017

Quack attacked: Oregon ends KU’s season in Elite Eight

Kansas guard Frank Mason III (0) drives against Oregon guard Tyler Dorsey (5) during the first half on Saturday, March 25, 2017 at Sprint Center.

Kansas guard Frank Mason III (0) drives against Oregon guard Tyler Dorsey (5) during the first half on Saturday, March 25, 2017 at Sprint Center.

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— Masters of the comeback during the regular season, the top-seeded Kansas Jayhawks couldn’t dig themselves out of their first massive hole of the NCAA Tournament Saturday night at Sprint Center.

The Pac-12 champion Oregon Ducks scored with ease for stretches, led by as many as 18 points in the second half and ended KU’s season one game away from the Final Four, with a 74-60 victory by the No. 3 seed in front of an angry, hostile, pro-Kansas crowd.

The Jayhawks, whose record when trailing by double digits this season dropped to 7-3, trailed by 11 at intermission. Their chances of winning a regional final for the first time in five seasons only worsened early in the second half, when Ducks big man Jordan Bell, stretch forward Dillon Brooks and guard Tyler Dorsey kept bringing the type of intensity that put coach Dana Altman’s bunch in such a choice position to begin with.

The trio and their cohorts kept attacking Kansas on both ends of the floor, in the second half and the region’s No. 1 seed couldn’t get any closer than six points before the Jayhawks’ season ended in the Elite Eight for the second season in a row, and fifth time in Bill Self’s 14 seasons as head coach.

Here’s a quick look back at some of the action:

• The game turned when: Oregon big man Bell proved too long, quick and athletic for the Jayhawks to score in the paint with ease or win the battle of the glass.

Bell scored 11 points, but made a much larger impact on defense, snagging 13 rebounds, swatting away eight Kansas shots and altering many other drives and shots in the paint with his wingspan and hops.

The Ducks out-scored Kansas 32-28 in the paint, out-rebounded the favorite 36-32 and limited the Jayhawks to 35-percent shooting.

• Offensive highlight: Outstanding senior point guard Frank Mason III’s final game in a KU uniform came and went with him leading the team in scoring, with 21 points.

With his team in an obvious funk in the first half, the 5-foot-11 guard tried to change his destiny.

Mason scored 15 consecutive points for the Jayhawks. Ultimately, though, it wasn’t nearly enough.

• Defensive highlight: Truthfully, little stood out about KU’s defense in the season-ending loss.

The Ducks nailed 11 of 25 3-pointers (44 percent) and shot 51 percent from the floor overall, while outscoring Kansas (31-5) in each half.

Freshman Josh Jackson (10 points, 12 rebounds) finally broke into the flow of the game in the second half and grabbed seven of his nine defensive boards in the final 20 minutes.

And other than one Landen Lucas block and a couple of Svi Mykhailiuk steals, the Jayhawks found limited success while trying to stop the Ducks (33-5).

• Key stat: Three-point shooting. The rims seemed tight for Kansas all night long, and despite their 3-point accuracy throughout the season, KU only connected on five of 25 (20 percent) from downtown on this fateful night.

• Up next: The Jayhawks will head into the offseason filled with disappointment, and months to wait before a different assortment of talent takes another crack at getting back to the Final Four.

By the Numbers: Oregon 74, Kansas 60

By the Numbers: Oregon 74, Kansas 60

— See what people were saying about the game during KUsports.com's live coverage.


More news and notes from Kansas vs. Oregon


Comments

Kay Jensen 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Argh! I live in Portland and now have to go to work to face these Duck fans...

Trump Putin 8 months, 3 weeks ago

They were right. Big 12 is waaaay overrated. Pac 12 underrated.

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Since the inception of the BIG 12, how many NCAA basketball championships have we won?

ONE. The worst of the power 5 conferences.

Dick Williams 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Which Big 12 was that? Also, how many has the Pac 12 won in the same period?

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Which Big 12 Conference? The one that was established in February 1994. In the Pac 12? Without looking I know Arizona and UCLA each won it at least once.

How about you do your own remedial research in the future.

Dick Williams 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Tell them their squad sure could use some class on sportsmanship. They sure were very childish about how they deal with other people's feelings. Isn't enough to feel good about your accomplishments instead of pretending like you have done something that is greater than it really is. But they are kids too, so they just need to learn themselves...the hard way...like everyone else. BTW, Pac-12 has fared the worst of all the major conferences in the tournament.

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Yeah, but they are still playing. No one in the BIG 12 made it past the Elite 8

Dick Williams 8 months, 3 weeks ago

In terms of wins and losses. The ultimate score.

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Wrong. The ultimate score is winning it all. A slightly above average Pac 12 Oregon just ripped apart the best team from the Big 12. Stop being obtuse. It's boring.

Brett McCabe 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Such a great season by this team. Thrilled to watch their excellence and effort. Credit to the Ducks on an outstanding performance in a very hostile atmosphere.

RCJHK! Thanks guys for a great year. Chins up. Chests out. Beaks proud.

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

You were thrilled by tonight's performance? Wow. Talk about low expectations

Tim Orel 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Brett looks like he was talking about the whole season, since that's what he said in the first sentence. No Jayhawk fan was thrilled by the performance against Oregon.

Daniel Kennamore 8 months, 3 weeks ago

The title should be: Self Chokes Again

I think it's time for Self to move on. Just look at our recruiting class for next season and you can tell high profile recruits can also sense Self is declining.

All these 1 & 2 seeds and only 2 Final Fours...and a national title that took a miracle to happen.

Even with a FF berth practically gifted to us with a regional site so close to campus...he still face-planted.

Duke, Kentucky and UNC wouldn't put up with this...why do we?

Michael Maris 8 months, 3 weeks ago

I respectfully disagree with your statement.

Daniel Kennamore 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Then you are part of the problem.

If chocking in March is something you are okay with...then Self is and will remain 'your man'.

I, personally, expect more.

Since the tournament expanded to 64 teams, 40.6% of 1 seeds have made the Final Four. Bill Self has now made the Final Four in 1/8 (12.5%) tries as a 1 seed.

That is simply unacceptable.

Bryce Landon 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Hell yes! There is no reason on God's green earth Bill Self should be 2-5 in the Elite Eight with a program like Kansas! FIRE BILL SELF!

Jaston Archie 8 months, 3 weeks ago

He's actually 2-7. I've called for Self to be fired over the years bc I hated his system offense that kept star players particularly guards from coming, I give him a lot of credit for giving the players more freedom this year, hopefully the Elite guards take notice, maybe Trevon Duval, and decide to come

Bryce Landon 8 months, 3 weeks ago

He's 2-5 at KU. His overall record is 2-7 when you include his days at TU and UI.

Jaston Archie 8 months, 3 weeks ago

So I guess KU athletic director overlooked the 0-2 in the Elite 8 on his resume when hiring him

Michael Maris 8 months, 3 weeks ago

There will be 67 other teams whose season finished the same way. So, you tell me exactly WHO you expect to replace Self with? I felt that the team's lack of Front Court depth has been an issue all season. Azuibuike being lost for the season is a definite loss to this years team. Lucas was a 3 Star rated player who maximized all of his potentials (once he was fully healthy). Carlton Bragg seems to have remained in the Dog House for the entire season (and didn't even see the court during the game). This team maximized their potentials virtually the entire season. J. Jackson finally woke up in the 2nd half. Graham couldn't get his shots to fall tonight. So, exactly WHO do you want to hire? Only person that I could really imagine would be Brad Stevens. And, if he didn't want the Indiana Job. Then, he's more than likely staying in the NBA until he's fired by the Celtic's Front Office.

Daniel Kennamore 8 months, 3 weeks ago

You can poo poo away the losses of any single season with a list of excuses.

The simple fact is...with the level of talent that KU normally draws...the Final Four should be the expectation...not once or twice a decade miracles.

Dana Altman (the coach that just schooled Self tonight), Mike Brey, Chris Mach, Archie Miller and Greg Marshall would be part of my short list. With KU level talent I'm confident any of them would have more than two Final Fours in the last 14 years.

Michael Maris 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Well, Archie Miller took the Indiana job. Mike Brey's not leaving Notre Dame. Mack's not leaving Xavier (who just lost in the Elite 8 earlier today as well). And really, do you want Gregg Marshall's wife sitting in the stands (and acting the way she did in the Shocker's last game)?

Daniel Kennamore 8 months, 3 weeks ago

I couldn't care less how our coaches' spouse acts short of anything illegal.

Mack MADE the elite 8 with not even a forth of the talent KU normally has. Imagine what he would have done with this squad.

Michael Maris 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Well, considering that Chris Mack grew up in Cincinnati and finished his collegiate career at Xavier, perhaps Xavier is his dream job. And, you might want to actually check out his NCAA Tournament record. His team underachieved last season (getting ousted in the 2nd round), when he had a much more talented team.

Daniel Kennamore 8 months, 3 weeks ago

The point is that there are plenty of coaches out there that have decent records without the KU level of talent.

There are certainly many that have a resume that matches Self's before the came here.

Michael Maris 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Coach Self started at the bottom of the barrel (when he took is first Head Coaching job) at Oral Roberts. His last 2 seasons at Oral Roberts were a combined 39-16. He left there to take the Tulsa job, where Tulsa had some Basketball tradition. And, his winning percentage at Tulsa, Illinois and Kansas are .733, .765 and .827 respectfully. So, I think you will have a hard time finding some other coach who has a better winning percentage than Coach Self has. Brad Stevens would be the ONLY coach that I would recommend to replace Self with. And, as I stated earlier, Steven's has already said that hes not leaving the Celtics until they are ready to fire him.

Here's some advice for you to try and live by. Worry about the things that you can control, and not the things that you can't control. Your life will probably be a lot more enjoyable in the long run.

Daniel Kennamore 8 months, 3 weeks ago

...You do realize you're proving my point, not yours right?

Self is a good coach, now doubt, but he fails when it counts.

It's time to give one of those other up-and-coming guys a shot at coaching with KU's resources.

Tim Orel 8 months, 3 weeks ago

There's no guarantee the same high-level talent would continue to come to KU if Self were fired. KU has been at the top level since the 80's because of the quality of the coaches, not because of the Kansas name. Self has failed a few times in the Elite 8, but look at Coach K's earlier exit - and he had arguably even better players than Self. They've had more issues at Duke over the decades than KU has, even with an extra title.

I'll take Self, even with heartbreaks like the Elite 8's.

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Actually Michael, there will be 4 teams playing next weekend. Making the final 4 has always been the 2nd most obvious goal for most teams.

But ultimately, only one team finishes the season winning their final game.

As to the more important question, who do we hire, I can't think of anyone better than Coach Self doing the job. I've heard Coach Izzo's name mentioned several times but could you imagine the outrage after only one national championship in 7 Final Fours?

Brett McCabe 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Daniel, it's clear you are a passionate fan. Remember what Self has to work with: a sh*t state, no population base, a state legislature and governor effectively trying to kill our great university and, other than tradition and loyal fans, not much else to hang his hat on. It was a tough loss, for sure. But we are so lucky to be where we are. RCJHK!

Michael Maris 8 months, 3 weeks ago

I don't think that Brownback and the Kansas State Legislature has anything to do with how the Kansas Jayhawks Basketball team performed this evening.

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

We're an Elite 8 team. And that's it. Nobody wants to hear your political BS right now but you cannot blow a chance at blaming politics for KU losing. PATHETIC!

Why don't you go down on Hillary and lap up that liberal pune slime.

RJ King 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Marius, first you call a disabled gentleman obtuse and boring, and now you add 13-year-old boy-type vulgarity. How about backing away from the anger flask and come back when you have something classy to say.

Robin Smith 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Daniel, you're out of your mind. You have no idea what you're talking about.

J.L. Forge 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Incredible sustained success, great recruiting, playing in AFH with the best fan base anywhere. Sorry...but you're outta your mind sir. RCJH!

Daniel Kennamore 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Take a look at our recruiting class' ranking for next year and get back to me.

Self has a lot of regular season wins in the weakest of the power conferences. If failing when it really matters is okay with you...then that's fine. But I expect more.

Bryce Landon 8 months, 3 weeks ago

I agree. Les Miles led LSU to a national title in football, but that didn't stop LSU from firing him when he could no longer deliver for the Tigers. Self's 2008 title should NOT mean permanent job security. When he can't deliver anymore, he needs to clear the way for someone who can!

Tim Orel 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Recruiting class rankings don't mean much when you're able to find and coach up kids like Frank Mason and Devonte' Graham. Duke exited earlier than us and they usually have a higher-ranked class. Coach Cal is the only one I've seen who consistently gets better ranked classes and manages to make them work out, yet even they had that embarrassing first round exit from the NIT to Murray State just a couple years ago. Should Cal have been fired then?

John Randall 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Playing nearly the whole season without any inside offense but occasional drives by guards left this year's team at the mercy of even mediocre scouting. By the time regional final came around, KU offense was an open book, and Oregon seemed to have a bunch of voracious readers.

Bryce Landon 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Good point. When Tubby Smith couldn't deliver for UK anymore, they got rid of him. Self should be held accountable too! FIRE BILL SELF!

Dick Williams 8 months, 3 weeks ago

12th straight Conference Championship, tying a 40+ year record that will probably not ever be achieved again in any major conference and yet still with the possibility of even beating this record next year. Case closed. RCJGKU & Bill Self!

UCLA dynasty 1968-1975

UCLA dynasty 1968-1975 by Dick Williams

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Great..you don't even know what year it is? We won our 13th this tear Rip Van Dingle

RJ King 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Honestly Marius, you need to fight fair. Bully.

Tracey Graham 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Duke just lost in the Sweet 16 and has been to just one Final Four since 2011. Kentucky has missed the NCAA Tournament entirely twice since 2009. When North Carolina played in the National Title game last season, it was the Tar Heels' first trip to the Final Four since 2009.

KU has the same number of national titles since 2008 (1) as both UNC (who won in 2009) and UK (won in 2012). Duke has 2 titles since 2008 (in 2010 & 2015)

There really isn't much difference in the teams' recent success. Those schools have all crashed out of the tournament in early rounds. And as I said, Kentucky ended up having to play in the NIT twice since 2009.

Yeah it's discouraging that KU hasn't made it to the Final Four more often. But overall, the Jayhawks' record in the NCAA Tournament since Self arrived really isn't all that different than the other big name programs

Mike Mainzer 8 months, 3 weeks ago

It was yet again another team that achieved more during the season . An incredibly exciting team to watch that got as far as they could without a legit inside game - an inside scoring threat could have helped take the lid off the basket and open up the outside shot. Great year Hawks! Will miss Mason and Jackson. I'm grateful that Jackson didn't turn in a Wigginslike effort during the tourney and went out trying to win. Thanks Josh!!

Michael Maris 8 months, 3 weeks ago

I kept thinking tonight's game would be the type of game that Carlton Bragg athleticism would work in his favor. He could've stretched out Bell and been as athletic as Bell to get rebounds. But, he never seen the court tonight. L. Vick scored 7 points in the first 10 minutes of the game. Then, he really is absent from the flow of the game there after. Poor passing in the 1st half.

Will Bragg leave after this semester is over? If he does, that will leave U. Azuibuike, B. Preston, D. Coleby and M. Lightfoot in the front court. Unless, some other recruit is still available on the recruiting boards.

Danny Hernandez 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Great season, definitely sucks but glad we're in these Elite8 games to begin with

Jaston Archie 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Looking ahead, Kansas needs a talented athletic post player as well as an athletic mobile 4 man and bigger more athletic guards. Like against Kentucky, Devontae Graham gets exposed against athletic players. Lucas is what he is, you would think that Carlton would be a great 4 man but he's surprisingly slow for a player that thinks he's Kevin Durant. So Self is now 2-7 in the Elite 8 and this may be the worst loss of his tenure, Jackson is on to make his millions while everyone else either heads overseas or find a 9 to 5

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Carlton is Kevin?. Devontae Graham? You seem mixed-up Archie.

Mike Riches 8 months, 3 weeks ago

A disappointing ending should never overshadow an incredible season. Thank you Jayhawks for the memories! Proud to be a Jayhawk fan for life.

Mo Golany 8 months, 3 weeks ago

It sucks to lose we played our worst half off the season. The worst part is we have no idea what we have for next year. If Devonte and Svi come back which they should:

G Graham G Newman G Vick PF Svi C Azibuke

Bench Bragg Coleby Preston

Maybe we get a good recruit ugh so upset

Michael Maris 8 months, 3 weeks ago

I'm betting that B. Preston is taking the 4 spot (over Svi, who's been playing the 3 spot virtually his entire KU career).

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

100% agreement. Svi (if he is still here) or Vick will fill in nicely at the 3.

Alex Berger 8 months, 3 weeks ago

I've been thinking it all year it came true tonight: live by the three, die by the three. Shots didn't drop so we got bounced. With 5 minutes left we were 0-9 in 2nd half from 3. 33% and we would have been tied. Frank, Josh, and Devonte started forcing it a little though and you could tell they were tight. Bell taking away our inside game was the true MVP for Oregon. He hurt us bad.

Hindsight is 20/20 but I wonder if more could have been done to develop our inside guys throughout the season. Coach is a smart dude so I'm sure he'll go back to the drawing board on how to get his team ready for every game in the tourney. There's a reason Coach K has gotten better with age and I think that'll be the same for Self. Let's just hope Graham and Svi come back, because if they do we have another top 5 team on our hands after an off-season of development. Sad loss but proud of this team. Sad this will be the last time we ever see Mason in a Kansas uniform. He deserved better but March Madness is ruthless.

RJ King 8 months, 3 weeks ago

True, but Coach K's team wasn't even playing this weekend.

Robin Smith 8 months, 3 weeks ago

A great and historic season. Sad to see it come up a little bit short, but this will forever be one of the most amazing and memorable seasons.

Bryce Landon 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Nothing historic about a season that doesn't extend to the Final Four. You fail. Just like Bill Self.

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

10 years from now and no one will remember anything about this season.

Marc Frey 8 months, 3 weeks ago

We went as far as we could with the lack of size and dependent on the 3. The other team could not miss. ISU loss 2.0.

Brian Cathey 8 months, 3 weeks ago

The team played so rushed all night. Why in the biggest games can Self not get his team to play with composure. If things don't go well early we totally get out of sorts. Self comments that the Elite 8 game has the most pressure and highest stakes. With a 2-7 record in those games it appears Self projects that into his players. All night I kept hoping they would just slow down and play offense. They only gave up 30 in the second half. If they just slowly try to chip away rather than rush shots it likely turns out differently. I think the part that's frustrating is that Nationally we take a back seat to Duke, UK, UNC due to lack of titles. A lot of rambling here but this was a Final Four birth on a platter and we score the fewest points all season.

Jaston Archie 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Exactly, even during the pregame news conference when he said that this game was the hardest I sensed the vibe change, he instilled fear and nervousness in his team

Bryce Landon 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Dear Kansas Jayhawks,

Way to man down. You had everything going for you: A #1 seed in the NCAA Tournament, a backcourt that was firing on all cylinders, a player-of-the-year candidate in Frank Mason, a virtual home game in Kansas City - hell, even KU alumnus Kevin Harlan was calling the game for TBS! You had all that going for you, and you STILL managed to crap your pants playing in an arena that was reportedly 90% full of your fans! Guess you can spend next weekend watching the Final Four from those posh apartments of yours. Thanks for nothing - AGAIN.

=================================

Dear Bill Self,

You've had a good run at Kansas, and we appreciate what you did for us in 2008 and 2012. But clearly the Elite Eight is too big a stage for you, and clearly we will not play in the Final Four again if we have to wait on you to get us back there. So please do the honorable thing and resign, and let someone else coach our Jayhawks and get us back to the NCAA glory we yearn for.

Sincerely, A die-hard Kansas fan

Jason Brinker 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Dear Bryce Landon, You are the biggest crybaby POS on this board. Why don't you do us all a favor and find a new team to support. Your continued flip-flopping on Self is tiresome. Two years ago you were Mr. Fire Bill Self. Three weeks ago you were singing his praises again. Now it's back to "Fire Bill Self" after one game. Did Self miss all of those shots? Did Self give up all of those offensive rebounds? We had an off night. It happens. It happened to Duke. It happened to Villanova. With our lack of depth, it's amazing we had as good of a season as we did. We squeaked out games all season long. To think that we were going to roll to the Final Four just because of where we were playing is ridiculous. If you are truly a die-hard Kansas fan, show some respect to the guys that left everything they had on the court, especially the seniors. Stop acting like a whiny little beeyotch.

Sincerely, A Kansas Fan Who Supports the Team Through the Highs and Lows

Bryce Landon 8 months, 3 weeks ago

So...expecting us to be in the Final Four and demanding accountability when it doesn't happen makes me a beyotch? You sound like a Democrat calling Trump followers "deplorables" for not mindlessly voting for the first woman president.

Jason Brinker 8 months, 3 weeks ago

I'm not even sure how the Trump comment applies here, but whatever. Most of what you say doesn't make any sense so no surprise here.

No team makes the Final Four every year. It's not a realistic expectation. And disregarding all of Self's non-NCAA tournament accomplishments is asinine. Self isn't getting fired, so deal with it.

David Robinett 8 months, 3 weeks ago

The fact is we overachieved all season. It would've been quite amazing to make the final four with basically no inside game.

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Overachieved? We've been in the top 7 ALL season. Sr led by POY Mason. 13 straight Con. Titles. We blew it when it mattered most AGAIN.

Mike Mainzer 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Daniel, I partly agree with you. The issue is recruiting talent. For every overall number one recruit like Jackson, Kentucky gets three in the top ten. For whatever reason Calipari teams always play loose and rarely beat themselves in March, yet KU has a track record of playing tight late in March and going cold from the field at the worst times. I'd trade success during the regular season (Big XII title) for a final four or Finals run.

Shannon Gustafson 8 months, 3 weeks ago

How many NC's does Calipari have with all of those top ten recruits?

How many NIT losses does Calipari have with all that talent?

How tight did this KU team play the first 3 games of this tourney?

How tight did Kentucky play the first few games of this tourney while barely winning?

Daniel Kennamore 8 months, 3 weeks ago

In the time-span since Self started at KU, Cal has 3 more Final Fours than him...quite possibly yet another depending on the result of the game tonight.

If you think one bad year for Kentucky out-weights consistently doing better than us, then you and I have much different expectations for our program.

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

"How tight did Kentucky play the first few games of this tourney while barely winning?"

According to your "law of averages" barely winning those first games is actually a good thing. As you stated earlier that Kansas was bound to lose because of how well we played in our first game.

Dumb And Dumber all in the same person. A twofer! LMAO

Timothy Grillot 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Daniel you're insane. Being in the Elite 8 seven times in last 14 means we were a top 8 team. The post has been our weakness all year losing the Freshman and Lucas having no true backup. We his that weakness well with the top backcourt in the country. If you think about it logically who are you going to get that's better? Especially after you fire a coach who got us to the Elite 8. Self has had one 2nd round flameout being a 1 seed. How many did Roi have? 3? He's one the conference a record tying 13 straight times. UCLA didn't have much competition in Pac 8 but we've won a conference title over teams that went to the final 4. Last year we lost to the eventual NC. No thanks, I'm sticking with Bill

Bryce Landon 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Why not give somebody else a chance? Sticking with the same thing that doesn't work is the definition of insanity, and trusting Bill Self to win an Elite Eight game is insane!

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Going by your "law of averages" I would have expected at least one intelligent post by now.

Guess it's not really a law, more like a guideline.

Shannon Gustafson 8 months, 3 weeks ago

At least it tells us you're always going to be a dick.

Here is a little hint: you don't get to decide what an intelligent post is. I posted one down near the bottom where I outlined some other "top" coaches and how they have done in the tournament in recent years.

John Kelley 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Another season with a Kansas team watching the final four on television.

Barry Weiss 8 months, 3 weeks ago

as will Duke, Nova, maybe KY, maybe tar heels, you could say that about many teams.

Jaston Archie 8 months, 3 weeks ago

I hope Gonzaga or South Carolina wins it all

Tim Orel 8 months, 3 weeks ago

I hope Oregon wins it all. That way it proves that we lost to the best team.

David Molina 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Look, I'm as disappointed as everybody else, but to start blaming Bill Self for this is a mistake. If you listened to his post game interviews on Thursday he said (paraphrasing) Why are you asking me about their play, they haven't listened to anything I've said. And then tonight (paraphrasing) I thought when we got to the bonus early that we would drive the lane and get to the line, but instead we put up guarded threes. When the players don't do what the coach says, you get this result. They played playground basketball Thursday, and were great. They played playground basketball tonight, and were horrible. They ran Kansas offense, what, three times? And the rest was a jumble. One of my buddies said they went 5 for 1000 from 3. If you want Bill Self to leave, you're nuts. He has orchestrated 13 straight Big 12 conference titles. That's incredible in this day and age of college basketball. The NCAA Tournament always is, and will always be, a strange animal. I am proud of these Jayhawks - and Bill Self.

Justin Kruse 8 months, 3 weeks ago

What a difference Bell made in this game! I wondered throughout the season how good we'd be if Azubuike didn't get injured.

Gonna miss Frank and Landen. Thanks for a fun season. Rock Chalk

Michael Mitchell 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Anybody who wants Bill Self fired is an idiot. This team fought like hell all year long! They tried too hard tonight, witness fighting for rebounds among themselves. However they went down fighting and that I can live with every time!

Bryce Landon 8 months, 3 weeks ago

So I suppose the Elite Eight is good enough for you, huh? And I suppose you're okay with a coach whose Elite Eight winning percentage is a paltry .286 (.222 if you add in losses at Tulsa and Illinois). Your standards are too low, and your sentiments are part of the problem with our complacent KU fanbase.

Daniel Kennamore 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Since the tournament expanded to 64 teams, 40.6% of 1 seeds have made the Final Four. Bill Self has now made the Final Four in 1/8 (12.5%) tries as a 1 seed.

I guess Michael is okay with being 28% below average.

Seth Coleman 8 months, 3 weeks ago

So credit Bill Self for obtaining a one seed. We have had 2 final fours in his tenure. In the same time Duke has had 3, Kentucky and North Carolina 4. We have a good coach!

Michael Mitchell 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Absolutely right! You have to have to be there to have a chance...any idea how many teams didn't have a chance this year? Think their fan base might have wanted one? This is not a two and out tournament, it is a one and out tournament. Six games you have to win...one team standing. Luck plays a great deal into it. Look back at all the games and you will see that the whole tournament could have gone a different way for numerous teams. We didn't shoot the ball even close to what would be considered normal for our team...not rocket science here. Inability to score let Oregon play downhill all night. It happens, get over it! Bill Self by the way, took no shots in this game.

Craig Pannell 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Self is great but this was one of his worst games. Lucas was a complete no show. No offense, rebounding or defense. Should have been benched earlier. Dad's old team got into his head. Played well the rest of the year. Graham just couldn't hit the broad side of a barn tonight. Just did not execute as a team. Probably the worst they played all year. Ducks played really good D and hit impossible shots. SVI and Mason only ones who could hit threes tonight. Not sure why Self pulled SVI.

Tony Bandle 8 months, 3 weeks ago

I know everyone is truly upset over this loss and I understand the passion on both sides of keeping or dumping Bill Self There is truth on both sides of the argument.

Sometimes, it takes a painful decision to provide a long term improvement. I actually want Bill to stay to take a crack at that record conference title. However, get it or not, if KU fails again to achieve a Final Four position, maybe it's time. 15 years is a really good run.

The good news, next year's Final Four has an "8" [2018] in the date and we all know how well we do with the number 8!! To be honest with you all, I felt our lack of a true quality inside presence was going to kill us against either UNC or UK in the next round the way both were playing. It just happened a round sooner.

Justin Kruse 8 months, 3 weeks ago

I love basketball but am no expert when it comes to the x's and o's, so in all seriousness, what should Self have done differently tonight?

I don't think a zone would have worked b/c they were hitting every shot and getting so many boards from our man defense. I guess he could have tried it.

Maybe post up Jackson and see what happens? Try Carlton or Mitch to see what they do?

Just curious.

Brian Cathey 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Here are the things Bill could have done: - Not talk about how big an Elite 8 game is - Call more time outs when we are going to fast on offense after a stop and run a play to slow the guys down a bit and give them confidence - Pull Graham, he was 0-7 from the floor and putting up shots WAY to quickly - Design some drive and dish offense. Whenever a guard would drive the basket there were 3 defenders waiting for him meaning 3 people are open. Yet we just kept getting shots blocked - Play more Coleby over Lucas. Landon was terrible in this game - Try a zone defense. Most of their looks were on drive and dish, maybe they get fewer if they can't drive

Overall the defense wound up being good enough to win, no composure on the offensive end. We can play fast when we have confidence, but when we are behind, slow and steady would have been better. Felt like we were trying to get a 10 point shot all night. This team's failures at this stage I think are directly tied to Self's inability to keep HIS composure.

Seth Coleman 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Great season, not a great finish but that happens most years. Everyone calling for Bill Self's head is silly. You are aware only 4 teams make it to the Final Four every year, right? Kansas isn't going to make it every year in a single elimination tournament. Just want to point out that since Bill has been our coach we have been twice. For comparison, Duke has been 3 times, North Carolina has been 4 times, and Kentucky has been 4 times. We aren't doing bad.

John Fitzgerald 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Bryce Landon is a sad sack of ****. It sucks we lost, but to ask for Bill Selfs firing is like trying to cure cancer with aids. We can't do better. We won't do better. He's a great coach and he's on a hell of a run in the Big 12. Get over it and try to act like an adult. Also, I want to take the time to thank Frank Mason for giving me the pleasure of experiencing him as a Jayhawk. Man, I'm gonna miss that guy. Cheers to you brother. RCJH.

Bryce Landon 8 months, 3 weeks ago

So let me see if I have this straight: I expect excellence from my team when the stakes are highest, and I expect our coach to have more than two Elite Eight wins, and that makes me a sad sack of (whatever four-letter bomb you dropped). If mediocrity is okay with you, go cheer for Bruce Weber's Wildcats.

RJ King 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Bryce . . . it's called the ELITE 8, not the mediocre eight.

Noah Oone 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Tom Izzo, Jay Wright, Brad Stevens and Billy Donovan would be my main choices. I like regular season success, but that is far and away secondary to tourney success.

Seth - either UNC or UK are going to have five in the same time span as Self, and 5>>>>2. Also, while Duke has been to 3 FF's, two of those included a title.

Self needs to work on adjustments, because people are missing the thrill of a final four. That is much better than any conference title in my book. We keep him for next year, but if he struggles again, we should think about other options.

Seth Coleman 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Sometimes things are beyond the coaches control. Season ending injuries like those to Embiid and Azubuke hurt our chances. Bill has done some truly great things here including the 13 straight conference titles and the World University Games Gold.

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

None of those coaches are better the Coach Self. Izzo has been to the Final 4 seven times and only one once. I guess that's better than being stuck in the Elite Eight but not by much. None of the other 3 should be in the same conversation.

Not saying that a coaching change shouldn't be considered but there are a lot of better candidates.

Tracey Graham 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Except for last season, Jay Wright has not had much success in the NCAA Tournament. In fact, this season was the 4th time in the last five years that Villanova has lost in the Round of 32.The year before that they missed the tournament entirely. In fact, last year was the first time since 2009 the Wildcats had made it to the Final Four.

Brad Stevens has said he loves being an NBA coach and has no plans to return to college. Same thing with Billy Donovan. Tom Izzo hasn't won a national title since the 1999-2000 season. And in the last 7 seasons (including this one), you know how many Final Fours Michigan State has been to? ONE. (in 2015).

So exactly how would Wright or Izzo be any better than Self? (I'm ignoring Stevens & Donovan since they claim they are staying in the NBA)

Noah Oone 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Bryce - I agree with you. Our coach, as much as we love him, can not get past the elite eight. And if Kendall Marshall doesnt injure his hand against Creighton, we probably only have one final four. He needs to reevalute his strategies and try something different, because it is not working.

Brian Cathey 8 months, 3 weeks ago

And his other one we BARELY got past Davidson and Curry didn't even play well that game.

RJ King 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Your logic is flawed though, because you discount our wins when the opponent is injured - or when we won a close one - but you fail to consider what might have happened if we'd had a healthy Embiid, or eligible Alexander or Diallo to develop all year (not to mention the close ones we lost that we might have won).

It goes both ways.

Shannon Gustafson 8 months, 3 weeks ago

There is NO quality coach that would take a job at Kansas if we fired Bill Self after the success he's had. NOBODY would take that job for any reason other than a huge pay raise and that person would just be looking to cash out, legacy be damned. Who would take a job knowing you can win more games than any other coach over the last 10 years, win a NC, win a record number of conference titles, and you'd get fired? Kansas would be the laughingstock of the sports world if we fired Self (and we're already the laughingstock for political/budget/flyover-state reasons).

Pretty sure Self didn't miss any of those shots tonight, or make the Ducks shoot lights out, or tell the 'Hawks to shoot 25 3's.

As everyone knows, when you play lights out like they did the first 3 games (well above their season averages in many areas), sooner or later you'll play a "dud" game. Unfortunately for us, this team peaked 3 games too early and the dud bit them in the ass.

Noah Oone 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Or, the team was tight as a drum because Bill was tight. His tendency for that is well known. Wasnt it Matt Tait that reported that Bill was tight? The team takes on the mentality of the coach, and he has said before that winning is a relief. That tells me has a lot of anxiety.

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

"As everyone knows, when you play lights out like they did the first 3 games (well above their season averages in many areas), sooner or later you'll play a "dud" game."

Laughable. Should we add that to the 12 Immutable Universal Laws?

Shannon Gustafson 8 months, 3 weeks ago

No, the law of averages covers it quite well.

If you seriously don't think this happens then you're living under a rock. It's quite common for coaches to worry about the next game when their team (or a certain player) plays too good for this very reason.

Shannon Gustafson 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Let's not forget what was said after the game:

Every team that makes a run in this tournament gets one crappy game where stuff just doesn’t go well for them,” said subdued KU freshman Josh Jackson in the locker room after the loss.

John Fitzgerald 8 months, 3 weeks ago

You're right Shannon. The law of averages exists. If through 35 games you average 40% from three and you're shooting 55% through 3 games in the tourney, eventually your game will subside evening the true percentage. This is what happened to KU tonight. It's unfortunate and easy for KU fans to blame the coach. But our only hope was that Oregon would play below their average so we could slide past the law of averages. Unfortunately they continued their average which made it difficult for us to make up the difference. Math always wins unless you have a large side of luck.

Shannon Gustafson 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Easy on the critical thinking John, we don't want to force these people to have an aneurysm with all these facts.

They ended up making 39 of 98 3's in the tourney...which is 39.8%. Right near their season average of 40.4%.

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

The law of averages has nothing to do with it. If you flip a coin 3 times in a row and it lands on heads, what are the odds that the next time you flip a coin it will land on heads.

50-50. That's the law of averages. Yes, I'm sure most coaches are horrified because their team is playing their best ball of the season during the tournament. Coach Self should have substituted his bench players so that the games would be much closer.

Your reasoning is barely above grade school level.

Shannon Gustafson 8 months, 3 weeks ago

The law of averages is different than the odds of something occurring. Are you really too dumb to decipher between these two concepts? Your example above has nothing to do with the law of averages but yet you are so delusional you thought you'd use it as an example without verifying you understood the concept first. Brilliant!

There is a difference between playing their best ball and playing out of their minds. Regardless, I never said they are horrified of them playing the best ball of the season. Your reading comprehension is so poor you were unable to figure it out though.

David Molina 8 months, 3 weeks ago

My fellow fans, the team did not follow Bills Self's directions. He told them to run the offense and drive the lane. I guarantee you the game plan was not jack as many guarded 3s as possible. I've been critical of Self in the past - but this loss was not on him.

Layne Pierce 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Yes. Louisville should fire Rick Pitino, he didn't get lose in the elite 8, cause he did not play there. Villanova should fire Jay Wright, he also is better than coach self, because he did not lose in the Elite 8.

Fact is that we had an incredible overachieving year. We had an incredible team, but a team that A) did not play consistent defense, b) had no real post scoring threat, C) did not have a shot blocker. D) depended so much on a 5' 11 point guard, who only averaged 20 points and 5 assists for the season. We were very much like Villanova this season, and they did not make the elite 8.

My prediction now is that this won't happen next year, either we get to the final four, or we lose before the elite 8. We certainly won't get a KC freebie like this year. How about the question from the sports babe, why is it that 5 times as a number 1 seed, coach self, your team has not gotten to the final four? Coach was zinged by that one.

All this team did this year was win the conference for the 13th time, beat Duke, beat Kentucky at Kentucky, come back against West Virginia for one of the greatest comebacks in sports history. The team had such a strange vibe tonight. Like somebody is going to jail.

Oregon had a better plan than we did, and strangely we did not work the ball, and we were afraid to just take jump shots, we shot the 3 or we drove the ball too close to Bell, and we fought over our own rebounds. If Landen Lucas moves the ball into his other hand, Bell can't block it without fouling. They gave us chance at the end, and we just could not do anything with them.

I want coach self here at KU, and I challenge anyone to name someone who could or would come here, who could do better. After all, Archie Miller has moved on to Indiana, and Gary Marshall and his wife are happy at Wichita State.

Noah Oone 8 months, 3 weeks ago

You miss the point. Bill has had plenty of opportunities to make the final four but underperforms. The problem is not losing one year - when you consistently have a one seed and a top ranked team, you should make it to the final four. Pitino, Izzo, Roy, Calipari and Billy Donovan all have outperformed him in the time he has been here. Every year its the same thing - "Tournament is a crap shoot" "You are crazy if you want Bill fired" or "Only one team is happy every year". While there is only one champion, we are talking final fours. Most want more of those, not just elite eights.

Jason Brinker 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Nobody remembers who makes the Final Four. People remember the teams that win the title. So this season would have been significantly more successful had we lost to UNC or UK in the Final Four instead of Oregon in the Elite 8? Really? Last I checked, Izzo and Cal were tied with Self at one title apiece.

Tracey Graham 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Tom Izzo hasn't won a national title since 1999-00. SEVENTEEN years ago. And Michigan State has been to ONE Final Four in the past 7 seasons. Billy Donovan hasn't even been a college coach for the past couple seasons. And aside from the back-to-back titles, his postseason record was very up-and-down. He coached at Florida 19 seasons -- they missed the NCAA Tournament entirely in 5 of those seasons. In 3 of the 14 times they did make the tournament, they lost in the 1st round.

Name me any current college coach who has made it to the Elite Eight every season, because I doubt there are any, I can guarantee you there isn't anyone who has made it to the Final Four every season. There probably aren't any who have even made it to the Sweet 16 every season. Bill Self has taken his team to the NCAA Tournament in each of the last 19 seasons. How many coaches can say that?

KU fans are spoiled because the Jayhawks are always good. This was the 28th straight season they've made it to the NCAA Tournament. That is an all-time record. But how many times have they been considered the best team in the nation over that 28 year span? maybe a handful of times. They were not considered the best team in the nation for most of this year -- first it was Duke, then it was North Carolina, then it was Gonzaga, then it was Villanova. Only at the end of the year were people saying KU might be the best team. Now look at those schools I just named. Only 2 of the 5 schools are still playing in the NCAA Tournament. Also, how many times has the team that was considered the favorite to win the NCAA Tournament actually won the title in recent years? Maybe 50% of the time? Villanova definitely wasn't the favorite last season. Connecticut was a #7 seed when they won in 2014. And KU was not the favorite to win the title in 2008 or in 1988.

The NCAA tournament is not the NBA playoffs or the World Series where you play 3 out of 5 or 4 out of 7. It's a one-game elimination tournament. Any team, no matter how good they may have been during the season, can lose earlier than expected if they have a bad game. It isn't something that only happens to KU, no matter what some fans seem to believe.

Tracey Graham 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Great season for KU, but very disappointing performance tonight. 35% shooting? Letting Jordan Bell totally dominate in the paint for most of the game? Looking totally unprepared for either Oregon's offense or defense? It's one thing to lose a game. It's another to get totally outhustled and to play like you have no idea about the other team's schemes. Only Frank Mason III & Lagarald Vick seemed ready to go. Maybe if Josh hadn't picked up 2 quick fouls things would have been different. But he did, and no one other than Frank & Vick stepped up. And you aren't going to win games playing 1-on-5 or 2-on-five.

Much credit to the Ducks. Not only are they a very good team, they played with great effort and focus from the moment the ball went up. It seemed like Jordan Bell was everywhere on the floor. How many rebounds and blocks did he end up with? Oregon was easily the better team tonight. I thought for a brief second KU might pull it off when they got it to 66-60...only to allow Bell to grab an offensive rebound on the next possession that led to an Oregon 3. That was the dagger. All season KU was able to win games after coming back from big deficits. I think that might have worked against them tonight,because there was no urgency to their play. And when they finally decided they were in trouble, they started playing too fast, like they were trying to make up a 15 point deficit in 1 or 2 possessions. They just never seemed comfortable or confident. Even when they cut it to 6, it didn't feel like the momentum was really on their side. I would have loved for KU to have pulled out the game, but bottom line is that they didn't deserve to win. Oregon did.

Bill Self needs to try and figure out why he can't get his team to play well in Elite Eight games. He needs to change how he prepares his team for the Elite Eight, because it seems clear something isn't working. Whether the teams are too overconfident or whether they don't spend enough time on breaking down the opponent's tendencies...something just is off. Especially since many of these losses have been games in which KU has just looked lost. He isn't going to win every Elite 8 game, but he should at least have a winning record in them. Not a record of 2-7.

Finally, I want to say thank you and good luck to Frank, Landen and Tyler. They all seem like really good guys and have been credits to KU. I hope to see Frank in the NBA next year...he may be small, but he should be able to find a place in the league.

Bryce Landon 8 months, 3 weeks ago

The only reason I'm liking your post is because of your next-to-last paragraph.

Suzi Marshall 8 months, 3 weeks ago

These negative comments about Self are crazy ridiculous. KU is incredibly lucky to have a class guy like Self. He is tops with X's, O's, building character in his young men, and represents the University with with a dignified professionalism.

The team seems to have a mountain on their backs when it comes to Elite Eights. It's not Self's fault Embiid was injured and the team went 4-16 at the rim vs Stanford or we could not make shots last year vs 'Nova or this year vs Oregon. We are in a golden era of basketball under Bill Self's leadership.

Noah Oone 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Its not as simple as making shots. We came out with zero energy and they looked like they had no idea what to do. The preparation just wasnt there and the hustle wasnt there.

Caden Ford 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Exactly Suzi. I don't think some people here understand how fortunate we are as KU Basketball fans. Of course it's disappointing, falling short in the Elite 8 this year after such a fantastic season...but to criticize and ask for our head coach to be fired? We have a coach who has kept our program in like Suzi said, "a golden era" Who would you even find to replace Self? Some of you are so quick to call him out, that have you even thought about what that could do to the program? Although I am just as upset and disappointed about the end of this season (and for the Seniors - Tyler, Landen, and especially Frank), I am more so embarrassed and disgusted at those of you even thinking about firing Bill Self....You absolutely are a disgrace as a KU Basketball fan, giving up on someone that has year in and year out, worked as hard as they could to end each and every season successfully. I hope that you realize how lucky we are to have such a special program with a special coach...Some of you are really ungrateful.

Barry Weiss 8 months, 3 weeks ago

If you look at the stats, they are actually closer than I thought they would be. especially in the paint. it really came down to they had a rim protector that totally took us out of our game around the basket and made us take more three's than we probably wanted to take....and couple that with just a horrible night shooting, which happens. We had a ton of open looks that went half way down and came out. Then add to that they hit their 3's at a much higher pace than they have all year, sort o like we did against Purdue. So things like that happen. You can't blame this on Coach or any player if you ask me. A certain amount of shooting luck goes into some games in the tourney. and how many times did two of our players knock it from themselves right to a Duck? It was just a perfect storm. that said, you typically do need a big stud rim protector to win a NC. Not always, but usually. That is no knock on Landon. He won many games for us this year. But if all the crybabies here really want an NC, you got to have a true 5. DoK will be that next year. I think we get number 14 next year. Rock Chalk.

Barry Weiss 8 months, 3 weeks ago

oh and I forgot to add, Jackson picking up his second foul 2 minutes into the game was a killer. just really put us in a bad situation and let them control the tempo even more. unfortunate is all you can say.

Tracey Graham 8 months, 3 weeks ago

So many people are quick to blame Self and/or the players. How about crediting Oregon for having a great game plan and executing it beautifully, especially in the first 30 minutes of the game?

The Ducks have now won 33 games. They were co-champs of the Pac-12. They were ranked in the Top 10 of the AP Poll for the final 6 weeks of the season. This is a very good team. It wouldn't surprise me if they beat UK or North Carolina next Saturday. It also wouldn't surprise me if they end up winning the national title.

Matt Gonzo 8 months, 3 weeks ago

All people calling for Self to leave or be fired....please go root for someone else. Jump on the k-state bandwagon, there is plenty of room for ya. Self is going to be in the hall of fame for crying out loud. Stop sounding stupid just cause of a loss. Coach K should be fired for losing in the second round too huh? Rock chalk Jayhawk to the whole team. Thanks for your hard work this season. Seniors, you will be missed.

Bryce...take a hike!

Shannon Gustafson 8 months, 3 weeks ago

For those of you thinking Self has a horrible tournament resume, let's look at Coach K, supposedly the greatest of all time and his resume over the last 13 years:

2005: Lost in the Sweet 16---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2006: Lost in the Sweet 16---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2007: Lost in the FIRST ROUND-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2008: Lost in the SECOND ROUND---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2009: Lost in the Sweet 16---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2010: Won NC-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2011: Lost in the Sweet 16---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2012: Lost in the FIRST ROUND-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2013: Lost in the Elite 8-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2014: Lost in the FIRST ROUND-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2015: Lost in the Sweet 16---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2016: Won NC-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2017: Lost in the Sweet 16----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's right, in the last 13 years, Coach K's team has only made it past the sweet 16 3 times! He's 3-6 in the Sweet 16 in that span and 4 times failed to even get there! He's lost in the first or second round 4 times in the last 10 years! He's only been to the Elite 8 3 times in 13 years!

So is he a horrible coach because his teams have routinely choked early in the tournament in recent years (when parity is much greater than it used to be), or is he a great coach because he won 2 NC's in that time frame?

What about Coach Cal? Top recruiting class nearly every year (and tons of NBA stars, proving they aren't lacking in talent relative to their ranking) and he has ONE NC to show for it (and a loss in the first round of the NIT). He gets to the Final 4 or NC game but can't win the big one.

You can do this for all the "great" college coaches. Sean Miller can't get to the Final 4, Nova loses early nearly every year, Huggins has a historic amount of wins but a poor tourney record, etc. Baylor has been to 3 sweet 16's (and an Elite 8) in the last 7 years, does that mean Scott Drew is a great coach? We all know he's not. Tournament success does not determine how good a coach is, it's just one of many factors.

Barry Weiss 8 months, 3 weeks ago

thank you Shannon. As usual you put things in perspective. Good grief, Self will probably go into the hall of fame in a few months. There are so many things that have to fall just right to win a NC. Coach Self got us into a position to have a shot, last night our shots just did not fall and theirs did. Both teams played their game, I call this one just one of those shooting nights, nothing more. I'm actually surprised we made it this far without a lotto pick type big. Again, no dis on Landon, the guy is great, a class act, just not the total beast you have to have in the paint. If this team had that player and less one of our star guards, say Deveonte, we would then be a final four team. I think Coach got the most out of a team that was not deep and did not have a rim protector. When you run into a team like Oregon who alters shots in the paint, its killer. Next year we will have that in Dok. I'm calling it right here, right now, KU wins number 14 next year. I'll admit I'm a conference champ homer (hey with our football team you take what you can get in basketball) and a NC is just icing on the cake when those come along. NO ONE wins NC on a regular basis crybabies.

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Duke: 5 national championships since 1991 including 2 since 2010

Kansas: 1 national championship since 1991

Think Coach K wins hands down. I don't think you could have picked a worse comparison.

Shannon Gustafson 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Another example of your inability to comprehend what's being stated. The comparison wasn't a "who's better" it was a "look, even the so-called best coach loses early in the tournament a lot". Maybe I should start with ABC's and 123's so you can get a grasp on basic learning, then slowly move up to more advanced topics. No child left behind...

RJ King 8 months, 3 weeks ago

It was an excellent comparison of the two coaches over the same time period. (A great way to examine facts, versus relying on eye tests and emotions.)

Coach K was 44 years old in 1991. Bill Self was 29.

No one says he's a Wunderkind.

Rob Byrd 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Just read a couple of posts so far, but thanks Brett for being a classy fan, Marius, not so much.Teenagers out there giving their all, game after game, after spending YEARS in preparation, in the weight room , on the stairs, on the court, etc..., and then a game where shots don't fall, it's time to pull out the insults and personal attacks on kids, by "ADULTS"? I want to win as bad as anyone, but if I haven't put in the same work and effort to bring that success as these kids have, I'm definitely not going to assume that I have the right to sh*t on them if they don't win everything. I LOVE our Jayhawks! RCJHKU!!

Betty Lamar 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Bill Self is a good coach, but what made him a great coach was hiring Danny Manning to recruit and train the big men.

Post play has been on a steady decline since Danny left. Surely Self can find someone who can do a better job working with the post players.

RJ King 8 months, 3 weeks ago

A number of things have affected post play since Manning left.

Embiid got injured. Diallo and Alexander had eligibility issues. Azubuike got injured. Coleby had to sit out and then was injured. Carlton got in his own way.

Lucas was a three-star player we picked up when we lost out on Tarc at the last minute. By the end of his development, he was playing at a level we might expect from a four-star recruit. We did just fine against Kentucky's Bam, Baylor's Motley, etc.

There's a lot of history along the way. Like Danny probably would have stayed in Carolina had Larry Brown not hired his Ed.

Jaston Archie 8 months, 3 weeks ago

If I was a reporter I would ask Bill Self, if Mario Chalmers missed that 3 point shot, do you think you would still be the coach at KU?

I think the answer is no. Fans would have either demanded he be fired or he would have resigned bc of the pressure, but he gets a huge pass for all of his tourney blunders bc he did something that even Roy Williams couldn't do, and that's win a national title.

Mike Greer 8 months, 3 weeks ago

And everyone was so pissed when Roy left for UNC. Yet he didn't win a national title the entire 15 years he was at KU and he also had his share of disappointments and earlier than anticipated exits.

Rob Byrd 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Just a thought concerning the changing of the guard, so to speak, in the call for dumping future HOFer Bill Self. I'm just wondering if we get some hot shot wiz kid or a "BIG" name that comes in and proceeds to lead us to 5 years of 23 & 12's, no conference championships, BUT we make it to 2 FF's, will this be worth the tradeoff of 30 & 5 seasons, with a conference championship every year and a question mark hanging over the Big Dance? When do people start paying more attention to the post season and forget about packing 16300? How long before AFH starts to lose her luster as the greatest venue to watch a college bb game? How much revenue does it take away from our University, realizing the immense contributions that the mbb program provides for many other student/athletes. We have been very fortunate over the last 25+ years, and should be careful that we don't just assume that anybody we bring in will have the same success. We could find ourselves in an extended era of mediocrity, or worse! We could be K-State! Ouch! :-) I remember the 60's & 70's with Ted Owens, and I can tell alot of you right now, you would be BEGGING for Bill Self to come back with the wrong hire.

RJ King 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Thank you Rob. I survived the Ted Owens era as well.

The Final Four of 1974 was great fun. But with only 32 teams, three wins put you in the Final Four. And with only a few at-large teams, no 2nd, 3rd place teams from strong conferences to take you down.

It's a different animal today, and a generation that values instant gratification has emerged.

Marius Rowlanski 8 months, 3 weeks ago

Okay, let's say we decide to fire Coach Self and now are looking for replacements. How do you describe your expectations when you fire a coach after a 30 win season, a record-setting 13th conference championship and a trip to the Elite 8?

And then, who are on your hot list? Izzo? 7 final fours but only won once. That isn't any improvement. Mark Turgeon? He would be on my list but he has yet to get past the Sweet 16. Coach K? Too old and not leaving. Roy Williams? Didn't work before. Unless someone can come with a viable young coach who we are willing to give a few years to settle in and bring in his own recruits, I cannot think of anyone.

Am I happy with our Elite Eight meltdowns? Of course not. Kansas seems to be the team that gives many other teams their first. When Duke won their first championship, they beat Kansas. When VCU (11 seed) made it to the final 4 for the first time, they beat Kansas. Oregon is going back to the final 4 for the first time in 78 years. Georgia Tech's first final 4 - yup, thank you, Kansas.

Bucknell, Bradley, Northern Iowa, Wichita State, no doubt about it, we had some tough NCAA tournaments but we've also set the record for the most consecutive tournaments.

Unless someone has some truly visionary way forward, we stick with one of the best coaches we've ever had and keep fighting for our 4th National Championship.

Mike Greer 8 months, 3 weeks ago

The first day I started reading posts I got so mad I quit, today I started reading again. I'm still mad! I'm disappointed the team didn't go further, but pointing the finger at the coach is just down right stupid. Coach Self was in a suit and tie all night, didn't miss a shot and frankly that's not his job!

What is it you should expect from a coach? News flash to all those fans that think kids come to Kansas to play basketball just because it's Kansas, they don't. So the first thing a coach has to do is recruit and it's not just get the top 5* guys, but the hidden gems like Frank Mason III. KU has been ranked and well seeded in the tournament for 28 straight years, 14 of those under coach Self. I'd say his recruiting is certainly on par with the best coaches, he got Wiggens a couple of years ago and Jackson last year, I don't think you can do much better than that.

What else should you expect? Take those recruits and blend them with the veteran players and get them to play as a team. I think this seasons team is a great example of how well coach does that. And then you should expect him to coach them up. Again, starting with guys like Frank and Devonté, who were not heavily recruited and getting the level of play out of them that he has, I'm convinced coach Self can coach up his players.

Everyone wants to win games, look at his record, the guy has been a winner at ORU, Tulsa, Illinois and Kansas. Clarence Iba, Nolan Richardson, Tubby Smith, and Bill Self all had success at Tulsa. Bill brought Tulsa to the Elite Eight in 2000 where they lost to UNC by 4 points. That's the furthest they have ever gone in the NCAA tournament. You can count that Elite Eight appearance against him, but that was really overachieving for that program. You guys should know his record at KU. Winning games and a lot of them he has done everywhere he has coached.

You want a coach to win the national championship every year. Thing is you can't win if your not invited and coach Self's teams have been invited all 14 seasons at KU. Most of the time they have been seeded fairly well (not that that matters, the 1988 team was a #6 seed) so their chances are somewhat improved. He has certainly put the team in a position where they had the opportunity to win. To me that's way better than staying home for the tournament where you have no chance of winning.

Someone talked about Kentucky parting ways with Tubby Smith, his replacement was Billy Gillespie and he lasted 2 seasons with a record of 19-12 his last season and a first round out in the NIT. Is that the kind of crap shoot you want to get into?

When you've been to 28 straight tournaments or won 13 straight conference championships, I guess you just take it for granted that no matter who shows up to coach there will be great players come to Kansas and they will always win the conference and always be invited to the tournament. Boys and girls, that just ain't so.

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