Wednesday, December 27, 2017

Breaking down how long each new KU football signee could potentially impact the program

Kansas head coach David Beaty yells at a player during the third quarter on Saturday, Nov. 18, 2017 at Memorial Stadium.

Kansas head coach David Beaty yells at a player during the third quarter on Saturday, Nov. 18, 2017 at Memorial Stadium.


The last time University of Kansas football head coach David Beaty fielded questions from the media — just after his team finished a 1-11 season with a road loss at Oklahoma State on the final Saturday of November — he expressed his gratitude toward the university’s administration for keeping him around another year.

In the midst of his postgame comments, while explaining the patience KU athletic director Sheahon Zenger displayed in continuing to back him, despite the coach’s 3-33 record in three seasons, Beaty stated rebuilds don’t always include a quick fix.

“Sometimes there is, but it will be short-lived if you’re not careful,” Beaty said at the time, “So we’re trying to do it the right way. Trying to do it with guys that have three to four-plus years to where we can develop them.”

In the weeks that followed those remarks, Beaty and his staff went out and recruited seven more junior college players to add to KU’s 2018 recruiting class. When the three-day December early signing period began this past week, Kansas received letters of intent from all seven of those juco prospects, plus two more, as well as a graduate transfer.

By Friday, only five of KU’s 15 signees joined the Jayhawks from the high school ranks, with four seasons of eligibility to potentially help improve the on-field product. The class most certainly will add a few more signings in February, from current prep seniors, junior college players or some combination of the two. In fact, Ryan Malbrough, a prep linebacker from Louisiana, gave a nonbinding verbal pledge to Kansas on Christmas eve.

Beaty’s explanation on the ratio of juco players to preps — nine to five — who already signed will have to wait. The coach decided not to hold a season wrap-up press conference in December this year, unlike 12 months earlier, when he spoke to media members for roughly 30 minutes about the 2016 season in general, his contract extension and the eight mid-year signees the program had added that day.

The NCAA only allows one signing day press conference, but it’s obviously easy to get around that by labeling a December session with media as an end-of-year wrap-up, and then including time to discuss signees. KU football simply decided against having a 2017-in-review presser. Beaty’s next scheduled question-and-answer session at KU’s Anderson Family Football Complex will come on or near the traditional National Signing Day, Feb. 7.

"I am very pleased with the type of players we were able to add to our Jayhawk family," Beaty stated in a press release sent out the Friday evening before Christmas weekend. "Our staff has been relentless out on the recruiting trail and it has paid some dividends. We still have some work to do to complete our class, but I am looking forward to getting some of these guys on campus in the spring and getting right to work."

While prep signees Corione Harris, Mac Copeland, Nick Williams, Jacobi Lott and Anthony “Pooka” Williams Jr. could potentially spend four to five years in the program — “the right way,” as described previously by Beaty — that won’t be the case for the majority of the class as it currently stands.

Graduate transfer tight end Mavin Saunders, from Florida State, will only play one season at Kansas.

The possible longevity of the nine junior college transfers varies.

Two best-case scenarios among the juco group exist with safety Davon Ferguson (Hartnell College) and receiver Stephon Robinson (El Camino College), who will arrive at KU as sophomores for the 2018 season. In theory, each could contribute over the course of three seasons and perhaps even utilize a redshirt year to further their development.

The other seven — defensive tackle Charles Cole; defensive ends Foster Dixson, Azur Kamara and Najee Stevens-McKenzie; cornerbacks Elmore Hempstead Jr. and Elijah Jones; and safety Jeremiah McCullough — will be juniors next year.

None of them can play more than two seasons, and two — Dixson, who began his college career with a redshirt season and a year of playing at UTEP before moving on this past fall to West Los Angeles College; and Stevens-McKenzie, who took a redshirt in 2015 at Fort Scott Community College and played two seasons at ASA College (N.Y.) — cannot redshirt, because they’ve already used up three of their years of eligibility.

Hypothetically, Cole, Kamara, Hempstead, Jones and McCullough could resort to a redshirt year at some point and still wind up contributing for the Jayhawks in 2020, becoming three-year players for the program.

The 2017 KU roster included five former junior college transfers who were seniors: Isi Holani, Cole Moos, Jacky Dezir, Jayson Rhodes and DeeIsaac Davis. None of them made use of a redshirt season for development while at KU. Doing so wasn’t even an option for defensive tackle Dezir, who took one at College of DuPage, or offensive guard Rhodes, who did the same at Blinn College.

However, defensive tackle Holani should be able to take a medical redshirt and return next season after missing the final 10 games of 2017. Plus, kicker Gabriel Rui — listed as a senior entering the season — was granted a redshirt for 2016, because he didn’t appear in a game that year.

Twelve former junior college players were seniors on the 2016 Kansas roster: Brandon Stewart, Fish Smithson, Marnez Ogletree, Damani Mosby, Ke’aun Kinner, Bazie Bates IV, Anthony Olobia, D’Andre Banks, Will Smith, Shakiem Barbel, Austin Moses and Devon Williams.

Only Smithson, who arrived at KU as a sophomore safety, played three years in the program.

Mosby, Olobia, Barbel and Williams all took redshirts in 2014, before Beaty arrived. Stewart, Ogletree, Bates and Banks only had two years of eligibility to employ when they joined the Jayhawks.

Just how Beaty and his staff plan to implement their nine newest junior college talents — and how productive each player can become in the Big 12 — remains to be seen.


Jack Brooks 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Despite how talented these new kids may be, they won’t reach their potential because Beaty and Bowen don’t know what they’re doing.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

They know exactly what they are doing, win next year or they're out. So they are trying to take the shortcut with the JuCos to get experience, which won't help it because most of these guys aren't Big 12 players to begin with. Beaty will be out regardless and hopefully the new coach will take a new approach, but who knows it's been such a S*** show for so long you wonder how much worse it can get was without laughing at seeing this product the field. Not one of the Juco players listed in this article made a bit of difference not one not one bit of difference but yet he keeps going back to that dry well. There was a previous article that stated it's not that you sign Juco players you have to sign the right Juco players obviously, we're not signing the right Juco players

Beaty knows he's a hypocrite. Who the heck gives a press release, especially with the signings of Harris and Pooka Williams, Williams who is only the first top 100 player Kansas has ever signed and Beaty still chooses to have a press release what a joke. While most coaches were proud of their signings and held a press conference he obviously chose not to because he knew he would be asked about the hypocrisy of signing so many Jucos while was giving speeches about doing it the "right way" with high school kids. He tries to sound honorable while saying one thing and doing another.

Beaty sycophants sound off.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Fish Smithson l know name another. All of the all conference players this year were gigh school recruits

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

You're right, Keith Loneker (played at Baker) and Gabriel Rui didn't do sh** for us this year.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Name another Big 12 team either would start for.

Dirk Medema 9 months, 2 weeks ago

A quick look at the conference statistics ( shows that Gabriel was better than the kickers for BU, TTU, WVU, TCU, and very slightly (1 missed FG) better than than ISU.

Just facts.

Mike Hart 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Seconding Dirk's comments on Rui. His 85% FG% in 2017 is the highest of any KU kicker in at least the last 20 years. 85.7% led the Big 12.. Rui was 85%, so he was right there at tops in the league. He also didn't miss an extra point, which has only happened one team for KU in the past 20 years. Rui was 7-8 on FGs from 40+ yards and didn't miss an extra point. He is the most successful kicker for KU in the 21st century.. .as no one in the last 20+ years for KU has had an 80% FG made percentage. Other than Rui, only twice in KU history over last 20 years has someone been better than 71% in kicking field goals... Rui was 85%. Hope that helps answer how worthy he would be to start in the Big 12.

Dirk Medema 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Is that sarcasm or did you miss the article this past week ( about Rui making 85% of his FG's (best in a decade) and perfect on PAT's?

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

While I do wish we would have recruited a few more HS players in this time frame over the past few years. I ask you this Kevin, because you think you are so knowledgeable on recruiting.

If David Beaty would have thrown away every JUCO/Transfer scholarship he gave out and instead given it to a high schooler, what do you think would have happened?

And since I've interacted with you enough times on this board, I'll go ahead and answer it ahead of you answering because your answer will be stupid.

We would be an exact replica of Baylor this year,but with far worse talent. Freshman and even 2nd year players (hopefully RS freshman) hardly see the field in P5 and even G5 football in the FBS. They are not physically, mentally or literally ready to play the game. It leads to injuries (see that every freshman we played this year got injured), leads to players not knowing what on earth they are doing out there (it takes years to learn a new football system to its completion) and lastly it leads to you losing games that in no god forbidden earth should you be losing. IE (KU losing to SDSU.. very young team and the veterans for the most part were absolute dogs**t). (Baylor losing to Liberty and UTSA.. the talent level between those teams isn't even comparable, there is a reason there are no vegas lines for FBS v FCS games, the talent doesn't compare AT ALL).

The above mentioned things would have been in no way beneficial to our program besides the fact that our 2018 Junior and Senior class would have been a LITTLE more stacked in terms of numbers but what good would that do when we are pretty stacked already? Not that the results on the field for us could get any worse, but they would have and we definitely wouldn't have beaten Texas.

This isn't the NFL/NBA where if you are bad it is okay to do the "rebuilding" way where you will benefit from losing. Every loss you take on TV (every game ever is on ESPN3 now) is a recruit that will not pick up the phone when you call. You have to try and put a product out there right now that can try to put up a fight, we both know that answer is JUCO players.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Yes we will see when we win one game again next year

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Your intelligence quota has to be close to the amount of wins Beaty has, I swear.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Ok Bryson you lost ALL credibility when we stated we wouldn't have beaten Texas. TEXAS HAD 6 TURNOVERS IN THAT GAME!!!! 6!!!! They handed that game to us any other team would have beaten them by 4 touchdowns we needed a last second field goal. You also try to make it sound like we beat Texas because of our Juco players on the roster. OMG ARE YOU SERIOUS!??

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago



Our 2 leading tacklers against Texas, JUCO/transfer. Besides Steven Sims, one receiver who wasn't a JUCO/Transfer made a catch. Over half the carries and half the rushing yards came from a JUCO rb and our OLine had 2 maybe 3 JUCOs on it.

However, I didn't say the JUCOs are the reason we won but we most definitely did every thing we could to try and lose that game. If we would have been completely inexperienced we would have lost without a doubt lmfao.

I'm NEVER replying to you again, I don't speak retard.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Did you see the talent Baylor brought in with this class? The recruits Baylor brought in this year isn't even close to what we have they are miles ahead. Did they struggle last year sure. They lost most of their recruiting class after Briles left. But the difference is the freshmen and sophomores who played this year and struggled in two years will be seasoned and still playing but the Juco players for KU in 2 years will be out of the program. And somehow according to you that's ok.

John Joseph Gorski 9 months, 3 weeks ago

"And since I've interacted with you enough times on this board, I'll go ahead and answer it ahead of you answering because your answer will be stupid. We would be an exact replica of Baylor this year,but with far worse talent."

Hi Bryson, FYI, Baylor blew us out. So yeah, we are Baylor with far less talent. Difference with Baylor and Kansas is Baylor is in a much better situation than we are.

Aaron Paisley 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Shut the hell up trying to create a false narrrative about this recruiting class. Beaty and company loaded up on HS players early on, they decommitted so he replaced them with what was available at the time which was JuCo players.

If you're going to keep ripping this program, at least be accurate with your facts instead of making up your own narrative about recruiting.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 2 weeks ago


Thank you Aaron for understanding.

John Fitzgerald 9 months, 2 weeks ago

I'm curious why wasn't Beaty able to get his original targets?

Aaron Paisley 9 months, 2 weeks ago

I assume the on field results were a large part of it combined with those players receiving better offers than Kansas.

John Fitzgerald 9 months, 2 weeks ago

That's pretty much my take as well. Do you put the 3-33 record on Beaty or does he get a pass?

Aaron Paisley 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Years 1 and 2 didn't bother me too much because of how few scholarship players KU had. KU was still way behind this year so I wasn't expecting significant progress, I thought 4 wins would have been a good season this year. Next year was when I was legitimately expecting KU to get back to a bowl game.

As far as this year, I honestly think I would put more on Clint Bowen's defense than the offense to be perfectly honest. KU only held 3 teams all year under 40 points. Only Rice forced fewer turnovers than the 9 that KU forced this year. KU had 4 guys I think make all conference on the front 7, yet the defense was that bad? That's on Clint Bowen. With that much talent up front, there's no reason that KU's defense shouldn't have been middle of the pack in the Big 12 this year at least, even with the inexperience in the secondary. Clint Bowen's play calling this year completely went against the strengths of the defense and exposed the weakest part of his defense this year.

As for the offense and Beaty, I think we saw a tale of two parts of the season. Through the first 4 games, KU looked like they had a competent offense that could put some points up against most teams. Then for whatever reason, the offense fell off a cliff in the last 8 games and never looked competent except for the Texas game the rest of the way.

I like the overall direction Doug Meacham is taking the offense because the spread offense was developed to give lesser talented teams an opportunity to compete because of the principles of the system in creating one on one match ups. I think the offense will take a step forward next year as the OLine goes through another offseason conditioning program and their bodies continue to physically mature because 19-20 year old kids just aren't going to be as strong as 22-23 seniors that our OLine was tasked with blocking. Hakeem Adeniji is the perfect example of this. The kid is a future NFL player, but he's playing LT at under 300 lbs. which isn't a good thing. He was playing about 270 as a freshman and about 290 this year. He'll keep getting better as he keeps adding mass, but it takes time to do that and it doesn't happen in a single offseason. This is why getting HS linemen into the program is such a big deal because of the weight training they need to develop properly which can be hit or miss at the JuCo level.

Overall, I'd say the 3-33 mark is pretty equally split between Beaty and Bowen and I think Beaty needs to have a very short leash going into next season. With the way KU's schedule is in 2018, they play 6 games, have an off week, and then play their final 6 games. I would say if KU isn't at least 2-4 and looking competitive against that part of the schedule, then Beaty needs to be canned and that KU has to win 4 games minimum next year to even consider keeping Beaty for year 5.

Jeff Coffman 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Beatty has been the coach and Bowen has not been good all three years.

Brian Wilson 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Correct on most accounts. Pressure has gotten so bad that Beaty will most likely be out if he doesn't put up some wins. IMO Beaty did the right thing going 50/50 on transfers and recruits up until the point he reshirted 12 freshmen last year. That was supposed to make it so he didn't have to recruit so many transfers moving forward. However, he record has been so bad that now he has no choice but to win now.

The good news years Junior Class is big and so will be the Sophomores. Believe it or not.....that means if Beaty fails the incoming coach will at least have some players coming back and will have a much better roster to work with than when Beaty came here.

However, to all the naysayers, I still project 3 wins next year, but not sure that is enough to save Beaty's job.

Mike Bennett 9 months, 3 weeks ago

KU's recruiting is insanity personified. Keep doing the same thing every year hoping for a change. First, the staff can't identify JUCO talent. Out of the JUCO's they signed the last couple of years, how many are Big XII caliber players? And by that I don't mean they threw on a uniform and played, I mean good enough to win at this level! My guess is no more than 3. Yet, somehow we are supposed to believe the dozen or so they sign or will sign this year are quality players. I'm not buying the hype. Beaty and Bowen have zero, nada, zilch ability to locate, recruit and sign Big XII caliber players

Brad Avery 9 months, 3 weeks ago

All that suffering for nothing. Beaty is not rebuilding the program; he is merely attempting to patch the holes where the rain gets in.

Dirk Medema 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Taking the program from 50 scholarship players to 80 is most definitely rebuilding the program. Only getting 3 victories is not good enough, but at least he now has some players.

When he got here there were no players receiving post-season awards. Now, there are as many as 5. Still way too many holes, but a long ways from where he began.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Not trying to argue with you Jeff, because you are correct. But I would imagine Dirk was probably referencing that nobody on our roster was getting Big XII recognition. The players that Charlie Weis had earned them because they were very good and when they graduated, there was nobody there of that caliber to replace them because Charlie recruited JUCOs as a priority.

Dirk Medema 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Good digging for info Jeff. The link clearly shows that Coach Bowen had some quality players to work with during his partial season in charge of the program. Several played in the NFL. Unfortunately, that wasn't the current topic.

The article you reference actually corroborates my statement, because all of the players listed in the article you linked were seniors. That means that there were no players receiving post-season awards when Coach Beaty got here.

Thanks for the validation even if your analysis was flawed.

Brian Wilson 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Dirk is spot on. Beaty has done what he was paid to do. Rebuild the roster to 80 scholarship players and get the team to the point where there are enough Senior and Junior recruits that have pretty much committed themselves and have been around 3 to 5 years where if a coaching change is made the entire team won't have the options of just leaving for another program. Beaty along the way has had his chance to prove he can far......not.

But, News Flash! News Flash! - Duh!

Beaty has two decent recruiting classes from 2016 and 2017 and if we had fired him they would have all packed their bags!!!! So, Zenger makes the right move IMO. least the Junior class will be fact it would be best for Beaty to win 4 games this next year and we keep him another year and then fire him. That way the upper classmen will be all in with nowhere to go and then bring in someone that can not only coach but bring in a decent group of Freshmen.

Next Year is the year to pull up a bag of popcorn and watch.

[''] 9 months, 3 weeks ago

3-33 head coaching record. The only head coach in any sport on any level with such an abysmal record. The Cleveland Browns' Hue Jackson comes close and he will be fired within 10 days. There is a reason why people call KU football the Cleveland Browns of college football. #FireZenger

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Very good article however Benton. I think it helps give a knowledge most fans just speculated about, regardless of the intentions of it.

I personally however, feel like it is not only a good idea, but a fair idea as well to duplicate this article with HOW each signee can impact this team. Those kids read these articles regardless of what you may believe or the board may be believe and I'm sure they really appreciate reading backhanded comments about how little we want them here/how little of an impact you make it seem they can have.


Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Let's get one thing straight I'm not mad at the recruits for coming here I'm upset with the coaching staff for saying one thing and doing another. Not one thing they are doing is any different from what Weis did. At this point they're just used car salesman trying to sell you a car with 100000 miles on it will try to make you believe it's brand new. My point being they are being deceptive.

de·cep·tive dəˈseptiv/Submit adjective giving an appearance or impression different from the true one; misleading. "he put the question with deceptive casualness" synonyms: misleading, illusory, illusionary,

Mike Hart 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Kevin: This comparison to Weis is repeated by you.. over and over... and it is wholly inaccurate. Sure you can look at the 2018 recruiting class and note the high number of Juco players, but you can't overlook HOW we got to this point. The 2018 recruiting class started off in the spring and through the summer as an amazing class of HIGH SCHOOL recruits. The majority of this recruits ended up reneging on their commitments, so there are now holes in the class. Through December, there have been juco players added to the class which are skewing the numbers. So when have a top 20 recruiting class in March 2017 with HS players.. and these players change their minds and go elsewhere... we have holes to fill. Beaty would be remiss not to go get replacements with the best talent available. We ALL know he has one year to show progress.. and regardless, 2 years of eligibility for a player who projects to be more of a contributor than a lesser HS player with 4 years of eligibility... is better. At this point, Beaty's hands are tied. He would be a fool not to offer scholarships to best players available (high school or juco) at this point in the recruiting season. This is NOT the same approach as Weis. He IMMEDIATELY went the Juco route and graduate transfer route... preferentially over HS players. Weis never started a season with a football team (like Beaty in 2017) that started so many sophomores. O-Line in 2017 was all underclassmen... D-Line was one senior and underclassmen... secondary was freshman-sophomore laden. This is the furthest things from a Charlie Weis roster. So totally incorrect to say "Not one thing they are doing is any different from what Weis did". Criticize if wish you.. and you will... but comparing to Weis is grossly unfair.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Really because Beaty repeatedly said that he wouldn't take short cuts inferring to recruiting too many Jucos. Regardless of the situation Beaty is taking short cuts to save his job plain and simple. If he had a better record maybe the hs recruits would have been true to their word. Its insulting to say different

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Thank You Mike for understanding. I hope to see you at a tailgate some day and talk KU Football.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

That would be great Bryson you and David could finally come out as a couple. See you there. It'll be great.

Dirk Medema 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Yet one more noble and eloquent comment.

Al Martin 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Should Beaty be given a pass for recruiting players he can't keep? I get that JuCos are abotu all he's got left now, but maybe he should have been realistic about which high school players he could really get. All of us knew that five star receiver wasn't really coming here. Why didn't he?

Snyder talked about this at K-State. After he got them rolling, he started recruiting 4 and 5 star kids that he ended up not getting, and it fouled up his recruiting classes. So he adjusted, and went after kids he was likely to get.

Mike Hart 9 months, 2 weeks ago

chuckle So now we are going to criticize the man (Hull in this case) for going over the most talented players in his state. Man... damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Hey Beaty... go recruit... but don't try to get the best players, go after mid-tier.

Dirk Medema 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Mike - Kevin also has apparently missed/ignored the differences where 50% Weis' recruits never saw the field because of arrest, academics, or some other character craziness vs. the vast majority of Beaty's recruits that arrive on campus in January and are competing through Spring Ball and into the season. It's not been perfect, but then even HS recruiting isn't perfect, but still a stark contrast for anybody that cares to look past their nose.

John Fitzgerald 9 months, 3 weeks ago

The good thing is if Beaty isn't around in 2019, which I'm guessing he won't be, the new coach will have some talent to work with. But the unfortunate part is the new coach will have a rather large senior class his first year. I'm guessing around 25-30.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Yeah having a large senior class your first year is an awful idea..................................................................

John Fitzgerald 9 months, 3 weeks ago

You realize the new coach will have to make up for those 25-30 guys in 2020, don't you? What is your recommendation, more JUCO's?

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

John Fitzgerald 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Bryson, you are very stupid. So stupid in fact that your grammar looks like a 3 year is typing your posts.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Proved you wrong, you realized it and have demented yourself to a level that you just want to change the subject. It is okay John. KU doesn't discriminate against having retarded fans.

John Fitzgerald 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Proved me wrong? I didn't even read your full post because of how bad the grammar was. The only thing you proved is that you can't communicate and your brain is logged down from all the snickers bars and butter you flow through your body. Other than that I have no clue what you said.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

You are very intelligent, I hope your 5 unique views a month blog succeeds. Good luck in the sad life you lead.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Not reading it, blog is horrendous. Just saw it pop up on another messaging board.

John Fitzgerald 9 months, 3 weeks ago

It blows my mind how stupid you are and yet you claim to be so close to the program. Maybe that's Beaty's problem? Letting so many idiots like yourself befriend his staff and or players. I guess idiots hang around idiots.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Im beginning to think Bryson just says things things that are over the top just to get a rise out of people. After a while it just seems like he says outlandish things then just waits for people to lose their minds.

John Fitzgerald 9 months, 3 weeks ago

I would agree with that. I don't think any human in their right mind is as stupid as he pretends to be.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

That doesn't matter because according to Bryson its ok because the Jucos bring experience.

Mike Hart 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Rivals rate prospects for a reason... Juco or High school. A 3 star prospect is a 3 star prospect. Going into this next year, if we are going to recruit Juco players, I must say I'm very happy to see a 3 star Juco rated player versus a 2 star HS player as I look at potential to impact the starting roster. If you're going to get a juco player, then I am happy to see most of these guys coming to KU are 3 star. Historically, that has not been the case.

John Brazelton 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Our high school recruits were simply poached by better football programs because our win-loss record was easy for other coaches to recruit against. With 20+ senior, junior and sophomore classes next season, KU will win more games. Upper class football programs almost always do. If our offensive line can become Big 12 quality, we will win multiple games. Our defense will be better than this seasons. Hopefully, our special teams will learn how to cover the entire field and tackle. Just how many games we win will depend upon our senior-junior on-the-field leadership.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

John apparently our sophomore and freshman classes currently are drained for numbers dude, we are going to be hurting in the future, trust me. #JohnFitzgeraldandKevinFestLogic

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

As opposed to Bryson logic. Now lm insulted.

Brett McCabe 9 months, 3 weeks ago

John, easy to say, harder to do. Let's look at the schedule. First, the Big 12 games are all losses.

Our next closest competitor, Baylor, returns more, better players than we do, they have a better coach and they play us early, while our JUCO team is still trying to figure out where to be on the field. Baylor also out-recruited us by a large, large margin, so they will likely have a handful of immediate impact players, plus more depth.

So, you look at the non-con as our only hope for wins. Winning two of those games won't save Beaty's job. Winning three probably won't, but might.

Nichols State will be a toss-up and we might be an underdog. KU (JUCO-U) will have an influx of players who are still learning the system. So, maybe we get this one, maybe we don't.

At CMU is a probable loss. They went bowling, gained 4 extra weeks of development and we don't win games on the road.

Rutgers here? Given a home crowd predicted to be less than 15,000 students, and coming off a loss to CMU, we probably lose this one too.

The problem for Beaty? He MUST win all three to even have a chance at returning. If he loses the first one, both he and Zenger will be packing bags before the team flight takes off for Michigan.

John Fitzgerald 9 months, 3 weeks ago

If KU loses it's first game I think it's wise to let Beaty go immediately. Maybe let Tony Hull take over the Interim HC duties for the rest of the year. It's not like he could do any worse and very well could do better.

Dirk Medema 9 months, 2 weeks ago

It is amazing to see fans concede games even before the season begins. You weren't the fan conceding the Gold medal game 2 years ago were you?

That doesn't mean that I'm predicting victories, but it is a far cry from conceding the games before they even begin.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

The problem with our football program literally breeds back to fans as well. Every team has dumb fans, we even do in basketball. But the lack of knowledge in football on our messaging board and throughout our fan base is astounding.

At some point Benton, Tom, Scott & Bobby. (matt follows basketball for the most part). You guys need to sit down and actually counsel these folks on how CFB works). Show them how Bama, OU, etc built their programs and how things fluctuate around there. You're currently leading a brigade of people who follow every word out of your mouth as their Kansas Football and CFB knowledge. This is more ridiculous than the need to Fire Sheahon Zenger & David Beaty (something I've never said isn't deserved).

Until then, the few intelligent KU fans on the board, you'll catch me on JayhawkSlant where they require an intelligence quota fee to keep idiots off the board.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Well according to you Bryson what makes You the smartest person on this board. Regardless of what you say the on field product speaks for itself. 3-33. You can't defend that and neither can Benton, Tom etc.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

I am not the smartest fan on this board. But I am very savvy when it comes to CFB and there isn't a team in the FBS I don't follow. I literally spend the whole CFB off season following team progress and projecting how they will do in the season and a lot of times I do pretty damn well. You call yourself a fan of this program and that you want us to succeed but you probably couldn't put a name to 5 players faces or tell you what impact they've had on the team. (fun reminder that you thought JUCO/Transfers didn't have biggest impact on Texas game an hour ago)

Barry Weiss 9 months, 2 weeks ago

well since you project how well teams will do, what was your projection for KU last year? What are you projecting for this coming year? Most here think another one win season is staring at us. one accepts that, anywhere but KU.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Honestly, I was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay off the mark with KU. I didn't listen to Beaty when saying "bowling" was the destination but I believed and still do believe the 2017 team was capable of bowl eligibility. The Big XII at the bottom ended up being way better than expected and our coaching just isn't there.

Take HCDB out of the equation and give us a good coach, we would have gone the 4-8 I thought was bare minimum this year. David Beaty just gets outcoached which is his biggest problem. (There's a lot more than coaching on Saturdays that go into football coaching).

Next year I project us to go 3-9. CMU game I think will go late into the fourth quarter with us more than likely not winning due to our quarterback situation (unless we get Lindsey Scott Jr). I think we'll beat Nicholls St, Rutgers & I really do think we will beat K-State.

Barry Weiss 9 months, 2 weeks ago

you may be right on next year's prediction. the sad thing is that would be considered "progress" given the past three years. now that is sad when it takes Beaty that many years to claim one win in conference is acceptable. I still think 3 years is enough to gauge a coach. I would have booted him.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 2 weeks ago

I agree with you completely. But I think we in the long run made a smart choice getting a coach who could recruit and hold face and help us build our program back to look normal at a very low cost. Now we can bring in a good coach who can be the face of this $400M project (no way it doesn't cost 400).

I'm hopeful, in the meantime I hope we stay competitive 75% of the time and win 40-50%

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Texas 6 turnovers had more to do with the win than any Kansas did genius. If you are sooooo savvy then why didn't said Jucos etc help us beat Texas or Baylor? Man you have the nerve to call me names.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Why didn't said Jucos or Transfers hellp win any other game besides Texas last year or this year. Most games were blowouts by halftime.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Shakiem Barbel, Fish Smithson, Ke'aun Kinner & Bates = no longer on the roster. None of those players besides Kinner were replaced with a suitable replacement. Thus you saw the results you did this year, simple as that.

I personally felt like we should have beaten Texas again this year and opportunities were there. Not enough talent currently or the talent doesn't have experience as well as David Beaty can not coach on Saturdays which I have been saying for months dude.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Well according to you a suitable Juco should be the replacement.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

according to me LOL, copy and paste where I said you have to replace them with JUCOs and Ill buy you basketball and football season tickets through the 2020 season.

Evan Fairs, Chase Harrell and Booker attempted but failed due to inconsistent performance and injury. I hope they can start filling the WR void starting next year.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

You can't say that Beaty can't coach but at the same time defend his recruiting tactics. They go hand in hand.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 3 weeks ago

No, I said he can't coach on Saturdays, that is when they play football games if you didn't know.

You can be an amazing recruiter and awful football coach. Want an example? Look at the 3-33 coach who is getting 4 and 5 players to put Kansas in their top 5/8/3 lists as well as getting commitments from POY players in their respective states.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

And all of the names you mentioned would be on the roster if gotten from hs not juco which in lies the problem. You have talent on the roster for only 2 years and when they leave there is no one as talented to take their place. Because the hs recruits haven't had enough time in the program.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

And your Baylor argument is ridiculous. Yes they lost to Liberty and UTSA playing freshman and sophomores but they beat us with said Freshman and Sophomores so how are they in a worse position than us? How many of our players have been in the program longer then Baylor freshman and sophomores? We had plenty of jucos in that game. You watch next year how far ahead they will be when we play them again.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Yes Bryson you are right l dont sleep with players pictures and their stats under my pillow.

Jeff Coffman 9 months, 3 weeks ago

Beatty loaded up on high school players in his first two recruiting classes with Jucos patching holes. After three years and although I would say none, ill give him very little development of players has occurred. He is filling the team with Jucos to play now. if you can't develop talent at KU you won't be successful. Beatty is not developing talent and I believe he wont be successful.

He has not been able to hire and retain coaches, coordinators to build his program. The offensive coordinator the first year was a prime example. Bowen has been the lone consistent coordinator, he just is very poor at that role.

Beatty is 0-6 against non P-5 competition. 6-0 should be the expectation.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 2 weeks ago

On the subject of coordinators and assistants, we haven't heard anything post Kent State about losing anybody. This could be a pretty big step in terms of getting moving in the right direction.

John Fitzgerald 9 months, 2 weeks ago

I believe Kent State hired the Syracuse OC, Sean Lewis. Smart decision by them.

Dirk Medema 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Jeff - It is understandable to be frustrated with the team's overall performance, but if you look past the frustration you will most definitely see player development.

When Coach Beaty got here, there were no players receiving post-season recognition. In 2017, there were 5 that received some form of post-season recognition. That is a huge change, and it isn't because we are getting instant players that are immediately plugged in as all-stars. All 5 were relative unknowns that developed.

Player development is a process that takes time, as frustrating as that may be.

Jeff Coffman 9 months, 2 weeks ago

I try to stick to facts...3 first team 1 second team and two honorable mention. Additionally honorable mention for Defensive player of the year and special teams player of the year. every year it is close to the same, and the year prior to beaty was about the same as this year... maybe slightly better.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Also Jeff, I commented on your other similar post. Very interesting to note I believe half of those players were JUCOs.

Austin Lopez 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Bryson Sticker do you ever shut up arguing with people? That fact of the matter is HC Beaty is 3-33 and on the hot seat, get over it. Every move he makes that involves the program will be questioned due to him failing! If the head guy/women at any large corporation such as Google, Apple, Amazon, and so on was failing at their job they would be booted out the door within 6 months tops. For Beaty to be going after JuCo players it speaks on how much time is running out for him. Don't forget nobody on this website was hyping Kansas up last season, we ALL were aware of the talented that needed to be replaced. Beaty dug himself in the hole and shorted his time with the fan base by telling us fan's and recruits that we were going to a ball game last season, and how we was going to win games, blah blah blah.

Kevin Robert Fest 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Thank you Austin!! Be prepared, you are disagreeing with the KU Football Yoda (KUFY) AND David Beatys Best Friend (DBBF) be prepared to have her call you names.

Austin Lopez 9 months, 2 weeks ago

I better fix my spelling mistake before the little toddler Bryson get on me about spelling words the proper way. *Bowl game

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 2 weeks ago

I've never said anything about spelling. It is a messaging board, as long as what you are saying is somewhat coherent, who cares.

Dirk Medema 9 months, 2 weeks ago

I'm guessing you don't work in the corporate world, because CEO's and other top exec's are rarely ever let go inside 6. Regardless of spelling (looks reasonable to me) the analysis isn't reality based, though it is understandable that you would be frustrated.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 2 weeks ago

I'm going to break down what you said and answer it because you normally stay pretty intelligent but I feel as though your most recent comment is out of the norm for you.

I argue to defend the players, coaches and extraneous members of our football program because they represent my University and I call some of them friends. If someone is saying blatantly false things, I'm going to correct them. If they have no knowledge of how something works and try to act like they do, I'm going to correct them. Kevin BLATANTLY said that JUCOS/Transfers didn't play a role in us beating Texas. DUDE our best players in that game besides Sims & Carter were JUCO/Transfers. I'm more than aware that Texas handed us that game but I don't believe those players being replaced with Mike Lee's (remember Mike Lee had literally no idea wtf he was doing, Fish was telling him what to do on every play. FISH IS A JUCO) that we would have beaten Texas. I really don't.

I'm aware Beaty is on the hotseat, I've never said he shouldn't be and I fully expect him to get fired next season. However I am thankful that he is going to be getting the ball to half court for our next coach who can hopefully be a GOOD PROVEN STEAL of a coach instead of some G5 or worse coach who "proved" they can go 8-4 play crap teams every year.

We are not any of the organizations you mentioned, we are like MetroPCS in the phone world whom is trying to come up and join the big name companies.

I agree that the JUCO situation does speak about how much time is running out, but I think there are some big holes to fill on defense NOW, and the only way to solve a problem NOW is to bring in someone who can play NOW so either a 4 or 5 freshman or some 3-5 JUCOs. Only time will tell if he got the right ones.

I agree Beaty shouldn't have said what he said about the whole building the program with HS kids because not ANY program simply does that and I think he limited himself by saying all of that. But I understand everyone's frustrations with the situation and I urge everyone to look over our roster and be assured that we are not anywhere close to be low on players before 2022.

Thanks for reading. Rock Chalk

Dirk Medema 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Benton - You have always been one of the writers I looked forward to reading because of your ability to dig and analyze, which is why it is so disappointing to see your lack of discernment in this article.

It appears that you did accurately quote Coach as saying he wanted to build the program with 3-4 year players, but apparently fell back to the standard HS vs JC rant. It doesn't seem to be a stretch to realize that a 3 year player is not a HS player, but instead is clearly a JC though decidedly different than a 2 year JC player.

To your credit, you did at least discriminate between 2 and 3 year players. You just devolved to the rant pack by falling back to including the 3 with the 2, instead of the 4 as Coach clearly stated, and you quoted.

If you accurately apply your analysis consistent with the parameters established, then the class currently is even I think. A bit of extrapolation though identifies the remaining unsigned players in the class as being HS players, and that swings the bar in the opposite direction of knee jerk conclusion.

If you really wanted to discerning, you could have compared this class to past examples. In each class, Coach has signed the vast majority of his JC players in December, and they've been on campus in January (2.5 to 3.5 year players IMO and another significant departure from the past though it doesn't fit the rant of less discerning masses.), but February signings have been almost exclusively HS recruits. In that regard, this class isn't a departure from Coach's recruiting philosophy though that doesn't fit the speculation that was initiated and promoted by the editor, so it is probably just a wise career move to maintain the company line.

Dirk Medema 9 months, 2 weeks ago

Reading is such a lost art.

This is a quote from the current article currently being discussed: "Trying to do it with guys that have three to four-plus years to where we can develop them.”

Now, you can take fault with Benton for not quoting Beaty accurately. I chose to trust Benton's reporting accuracy.

You can also take fault with Beaty for changing his frame of reference, but that's another topic.

Staying on topic on the current article, the analysis is accurate and factual, but thank you for again doing the research even if your critique again falls short.

Austin Lopez 9 months, 2 weeks ago

@Dirk on mobile no reply button but if someone isn’t performing they will be out the door within 3 Years. If things got really bad they would be out the door within 6 months but large corporations aren’t dumb like our athletic department is, they hire experienced, best of the best, qualified individuals.

Bryson Stricker 9 months, 2 weeks ago

I'd tend to agree with you. But most corporations never get themselves in a situation like David Beaty inherited and when they do, they give them ample time to rebuild and that is why they bring them in. The business world moves a lot faster (12 months of the year) than the football world (4 months), so repair can happen quite quickly. David Beaty now officially has a program that matches in terms of numbers and equality to the rest of the conference. Now the question is can he use his 3 buffer years he got to prove himself in this last cycle he is going to get.

I do not imagine he will because his football on saturday's coaching skill is just not where it needs to be and that is due to lack of experience and just skill overall compared to the other coaches in Big XII. No one really talks about it, but we have one of the most if not the most stable and skilled coaching environments in P5. Besides us & Iowa State (who will never fire campbell), there is no coaching turnover due to lack of skill. (lmfao @ Art Briles).

Everyone on this board says over and over about how Beaty can't develop players etc. I really don't think that is the case but it is subject to opinion I guess. I think the problem is he stands no chance at outwizzing the best coaches in the game. (Gundy, Snyder, Stoops/Riley, Patterson, Herman)

Dirk Medema 9 months, 2 weeks ago

No probs Austin. Took me a second to figure out which comment you were referring to, but I can completely appreciate the mobile challenges.

Thank you Bryson. We tend to disagree, but appreciate this response, and not because we're in agreement. This seems to be really thoughtful analysis that goes beyond the flippant, knee jerk frustration reaction.

In spite of Jeff's objections above, Beaty has gone from 0 players with post-season recognition to 5. Maybe somewhat coincidentally, this is the same number that were on the last Weis roster, which also failed badly. I haven't gone back and checked (Jeff?) but I think that is similar to the last Mangino roster, which also failed badly, though even mentioning his greatness in less than positive terms would lead some to cry heresy.

Maybe that really shows the challenge of football, and in stark contrast to the basketball that is so much more well known among our fanbase. Even a dog program like KSU can get a couple recruits (thinking Beasely and whatshisname) and suddenly become competitive, whereas with football it seems to be more the competence across the board, even without a superstar, that is more important.

Think about having a lockdown corner. Great, he shutdown one half of the field, but especially in this day, OC's will just find the weakness somewhere else and exploit it to the nth degree. Isn't that what happened so many times this year? We'd have a couple good plays, get the opposing offense into 3rd and long only to give up a big gain for a first down. Or we'd have a string of good plays only to follow it with 3 failures and end up punting. It would seem to me that this is where our inexperienced crew fell short. Having a crew of experienced players next year will provide the answer.

Totally tangent - I glanced up and saw your comment about "outwizzing" and unfortunately went to a picture of kayaking with a bunch of buddies who impromptly decided to stand in a line and see who could pee the furthest. Hopefully, this doesn't get censored for this reflection.

Barry Weiss 9 months, 2 weeks ago

my biggest problem with Beaty is that the program is going the wrong direction. If he could have shown even one win more in each season that would have been acceptable. But this year showed he does not have what it takes. His recruiting skills and coaching skills are not good. There would have been no downside to making a change. If fact, I think our recruiting would have been better if we went in another direction at the head coach position.

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