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Iowa State defeats Kansas, 85-72

  • 8 p.m., Jan. 25, 2016
  • Hilton Coliseum, Ames, IA

Monday, January 25, 2016

Disconnected: Jayhawks melt down in second half

KU loses 3rd road game in a row

Kansas guard Brannen Greene (14) and forward Perry Ellis (34) stand before a rabid Cyclone student section after a made bucket and foul on Iowa State forward Georges Niang (31) late in the second half, Monday, Jan. 25, 2016 at Hilton Coliseum in Ames, Iowa.

Kansas guard Brannen Greene (14) and forward Perry Ellis (34) stand before a rabid Cyclone student section after a made bucket and foul on Iowa State forward Georges Niang (31) late in the second half, Monday, Jan. 25, 2016 at Hilton Coliseum in Ames, Iowa.

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— Kansas University’s last three road games have resulted in ... an 11-point loss at West Virginia, a 19-point shellacking at Oklahoma State and now a 13-point drubbing Monday at Iowa State.

The fact the No. 4-ranked Jayhawks led the No. 14 Cyclones by seven at halftime of what turned into a 85-72 loss made somebody wonder whether KU coach Bill Self left Hilton Coliseum happier or more concerned than he left WVU Coliseum or Gallagher-Iba Arena.

“I don’t think you are ever happy when you get your (butt) kicked,” Self said after KU dropped to 16-4 overall and 5-3 in the Big 12, exact same records as Iowa State.

“I think the other two games I was more disappointed from an intangible standpoint. Today I was more disappointed from a poise standpoint. We didn’t exercise much poise when it got tight. We cut it to four, 66-62, and had a chance. We didn’t play well after that,” Self added.

The Jayhawks also slipped badly a bit earlier than that part of the game. KU committed five straight turnovers after grasping a 57-55 lead at 9:50. An 11-0 ISU run, one that stretched to 24-10, put this one away.

“We haven’t played with a lot of poise away from home,” Self said. “We probably played better tonight than the last two road games because at least we had a good stretch before we stunk, where the other two it didn’t seem like we had a good stretch. A little bit of a trend ... I really believe shot selection is a big deal and also believe our defensive intensity. The things you have to do to win away from home we are not very good at doing them yet.”

Self didn’t hide his displeasure with his team’s guard play on Monday night.

“I can’t say what I really think but it was disappointing, because their three guards just totally dominated the game. I mean Nader (Abdel, 17 points, 3-3 from three), Thomas (Matt, 13 points, 3-6 from three) and Morris (Monté, 21 points, nine assists, 2-4 from three) ... that’s about as big a beat-down as we’ve had with guards just dominating the game. Morris dominated the game (but) they all played great.”

Guard Frank Mason III, who had 16 points, three assists and six turnovers, played 32 minutes.

“I think it’s a little frustrating for him. When things don’t go well he tries hard, but is not as poised,” Self said. “Of course you’ve got to be poised on the road. I’d say that about all our guys. I felt if we could putter around, throw it to Perry (Ellis, 23 points, 10-18 shooting), let Perry work rather than our guys just cranking off shots and doing whatever. It wasn’t like we shot a ton (KU was 5-17 from three to ISU’s 9-21) or we did this or that, but when things started going south we lost all our energy, too.”

Self didn’t like the fact KU launched early in the shot clock. He was even displeased when Wayne Selden, Jr., hit a first half three early in the shot clock. Selden had 11 points off 1-of-6 three-point shooting in 30 minutes.

“I don’t think I did a good job of getting my teammates easy shots,” Mason said. “I had too many turnovers. Both ends of the floor I think we did a bad job.”

ISU, which outscored KU, 49-29, the final half, was so dominant over KU the fans elected to not storm the court as they normally do when they beat the Jayhawks in Ames.

“We didn’t fight back late in the game,” Ellis said.

“From the under 16 (minute) time out they dominated the game,” Self said. His Jayhawks hit 57.6 percent the first half, 40 percent the second. “You don’t make a three the second half (0-6). Not that we took a ton of threes, but on the road you have to have time to shoot. You’ve got to be able to guard your man. They played ‘take ‘em’ a lot late. Their actions didn’t hurt us as much as their players. Their guy just whipped our guy defensively for the most part late in the game.”

Of KU’s five consecutive turnovers in the second half and total second-half meltdown, Self said: “I’d have to watch (tape). I think a lot of it was self-inflicted. We didn’t do a good job handling the ball. I thought our shot selection was very poor, too. The first half we made a couple shots I thought were bad shots. The second half I didn’t think shot selection was great. That’s the way ball goes. When you play away from and start missing the other team makes a run. The basket sometimes looks like a thimble. We didn’t make any shots down the stretch. The only offense we had was Perry driving it.”

KU will next meet Kentucky at 6 p.m., Saturday, in Allen Fieldhouse.

— See what people were saying about the KU-ISU game at Hilton Coliseum during KUsports.com’s live coverage.


More news and notes from Kansas at Iowa State




By the Numbers: Iowa State 85, Kansas 72

By the Numbers: Iowa State 85, Kansas 72

Comments

Mike Riches 3 years, 9 months ago

I don't know what needs to happen to give our guys some confidence. Tonight it just seemed so obvious when we had that early lead, that ISU was going to come back, and we totally let them. Ellis played like a beast, but everyone else just looked stuck...

That said, February is an easier schedule than January has been. We are only a game out of the lead in the conference race and we control our own destiny. So while it's not hopeless, if we don't turn things around on the road, getting #12 will become really tough, especially since OU does seem to be playing with that confidence we seem to be lacking.

One more thought about next year. There is no one, no one, that looks ready to leave early for the NBA. Of course Diallo could go in the first round on potential alone, but he would be getting paid to practice, because he wouldn't be playing anytime in the near future. And as much as I like Selden, I cannot see him getting any minutes on an NBA team. He's got an ok shot, and he's an ok athlete, but not at the next level. He would be well served to stay one more year along with everyone else who is eligible to stay.

Steve Zimmerman 3 years, 9 months ago

Mike, that's the idea, no recruits will pick KU - thus, coach will have to make our players stick around for another year! We will definitely have a chance to go marching next year!

James Smith 3 years, 9 months ago

Only one person to blame...Fire Bill Self!!! It is time for a change.

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

It's hard to tell if you're mocking people who are stupid enough to really think that or if you're serious.

James Smith 3 years, 9 months ago

Psycho Jay your Mom is calling you from upstairs...It is time to feed you. Like her you are happy with mediocrity and enjoy looking up Self's ass. You are sooooo full of shiit.... Hmmm we won 12 straight Big 12 Championships, Graham is a shut down guard and that is just two of the many things that you throw up on post. You are THE biggest IDIOT on here.

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

I guess you were serious. At least it's easy to see how seriously you should be taken.

Terrence Cernech 3 years, 9 months ago

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,..................ha, ha, ha.

Marius Rowlanski 3 years, 9 months ago

"Diallo could go in the first round on potential alone, but he would be getting paid to practice, because he wouldn't be playing anytime in the near future."

As opposed to not getting paid to practice like this year?

Mike Riches 3 years, 9 months ago

Touche! But I don't think there's any question he would be playing a ton of minutes next year. And for an athlete like Selden or Diallo, what is the value of being able to play in actual games?

Marius Rowlanski 3 years, 9 months ago

Tough question Mike. Self's rotations and starting line-ups haven't followed the usual pattern this year. If Diallo took the big contract and played full time in the D league or maybe Europe might be options.

As for Selden, no idea. He looked like he was putting it all together this year but once again disappears in the big moments as he did his first two years.

I personally would like to see both come back but I also see the other side. I'll respect their decisions either way.

Brad Ballard 3 years, 9 months ago

It's depressing watching these guys abandon the game plan and just starting jacking shots or driving the lane and throwing up prayers and Self make no adjustments. At least with Roy Williams, we knew when he was pissed and he'd make the guys run sprints. Self doesn't seem to have the fire this year and neither do the players.

Steve Zimmerman 3 years, 9 months ago

It's time for another players meeting, coach! Ellis played like a beast, but he still missed bunnies and forced shots.

Joseph Bullock 3 years, 9 months ago

if Ellis had another scorer in the game, he would not have to get by, and shoot over, double and triple teams, every game! And he is the only big man, drawing fouls, so he has to take some tough shots. Also, he can't throw it back out, if we are not making shots! He also has to play so many minutes, against really physical players, sometimes those shots you normally make, don't quite make it over the rim. Remember when Self took Perry out, to get him some rest, and I think Landen got his 4th foul, as soon as he entered the game, and he had to put Perry, right back in the game. So I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'm just saying what I see, as the reason it happened.

Benz Junque 3 years, 9 months ago

We had other scorers in the game but they didn't score. Selden made ZERO SHOTS in the 2nd half. Greene made ONE shot in the second half and it was with less than a minute left when it was over. Morris barely scored and turned the ball over a ton. Graham barely scored and turned it over a ton.

Marius Rowlanski 3 years, 9 months ago

Was that Marcus or Markieff? I'm fairly certain you meant Mason and if so then I agree completely. It seems when we have the lead going in at halftime, other teams make adjustments and play tougher in the second half whereas when we are behind, I just don't see any noticeable adjustments. It also has become a recurring theme on this team to play poorly in the second half, especially so in conference play.

Scoring percentage, free-throw percentage and three-point percentages all seem to drop in the second half especially if someone is making a run at us. I'm starting to think that this team isn't coming together this year as teams have in the past.

Mick Allen 3 years, 9 months ago

Joe Baker, Frank was a liability in the second half and did his best Nadiir Tharpe impression. Wayne did his disappearing act in the second half. Are Hunter and Svi still on the team? We can't continue to play 3 on 5 or 4 or 5 on the offensive end. The distribution of playing time continues to be totally befuddling. Not a Chicken Little Jay but am concerned. Certainly not the way we wanted to go into the Kentucky game.

Andy Hess 3 years, 9 months ago

I'll say it again. With no strong team leadership from the upperclassmen, this team will not succeed. Perry may be able to string together some good personal showings, but he's a mute on the court, he's a weak, terrible defender, and he's no leader. The guys we have to facilitate our offense at the 1 and 2 were desperation signings, we all know that, and it shows on the court.

Brett McCabe 3 years, 9 months ago

Perry is the best player on the team, and it's not even close. The place to get the best impact is to go to the weakest spot. And that's not the 5, it's the "three" - as in the three-guard lineup.

Andy Hess 3 years, 9 months ago

He's a horrendous on defense, gets regularly pushed around down low on both sides of the ball, and he's a weak leader. He could put up 25 a game regularly, and this would still be true.

Brett McCabe 3 years, 9 months ago

And yet, he's still the best player on the team.

Joseph Bullock 3 years, 9 months ago

you are right, Brett, and it isn't even close!

Joseph Bullock 3 years, 9 months ago

Perry defense is much better than it used to be, and he is a lot stronger than he looks. He has to play more minutes than most big men, is arguably the toughest and most physical conference in the Country. He has to shoulder the offensive load, of both the '4 and the 5' spots, and he is double and triple teamed, every game. If you want to complain about defensive deficiencies, stop nit picking at someone you obviously don't like! What about our guards letting people blow by them on a regular basis, and Seldes, too. And does Greene play defense? And Perry has to help out, even when he is guarding his man, outside, has to help out on the guards who blow by ours, and many times, the kick it to his man, who hits shots (we need to look at that strategy, because the same thing happened to Svi, in the Oklahoma State game, right before half time, and in my opinion, that changed that game)! So if you can't be realistic, try to at least be honest!

Joseph Bullock 3 years, 9 months ago

and as far as being a 'leader', most players lead by example, which Perry does as well as anyone who has ever played College basketball. Leading a team, is the responsibility of your point guard! I don't think you have ever played basketball!

Marius Rowlanski 3 years, 9 months ago

I'd say Perry was the most consistent player but not the most talented player on this team. I'd also Perry was the one player whose loss would hurt us the most if he was lost for the season. I think three players on the squad have a better shot at playing in the NBA.

With all that said, Perry is the best player on this year's team.

Terrence Cernech 3 years, 9 months ago

Perry has his deficiencies but they are far down the list of what is wrong with the Hawks.

Mike Tackett 3 years, 9 months ago

Same story, different place.....this is what we will continue to get if we keep playing the same guys.

Joe Ross 3 years, 9 months ago

Mark this moment to show all the anti-OAD crowd that veterans are not always the answer. We have exactly ZERO one and dones who get regulars minutes. Can we finally put those obtuse arguments to bed?

Guys have been in the system for years and look lost at times, and cant respond when teams make statements during the game. We lost to ISU the same way LAST YEAR, and we havent learned anything. An inability to learn is no better than lack of experience. Kansas needs impact players. Enough of the Lucases and Traylors. Id gladly substitute OAD Ben Simmons for either one of them.

Brett McCabe 3 years, 9 months ago

Actually, no.

I'll argue that the OAD is exactly why we are in this mess. The constant flushing of scholarships has left the team short on talent, scrambling to fill the roster instead of building it strategically. Wiggins, Embiid, Oubre and Alexander are all, indeed, part of the problem.

Notice that we aren't losing to OAD teams. To suggest that you can't win in this league with non-OAD players is counter to fact. Just ask Baylor, OU, West Virginia and Iowa State.

You want to bring in one OAD each year to solve a problem? I'm in. But not a single of our OAD's has solved our biggest problem - get to the second weekend of the tournament.

And by the way, I wouldn't trade Jamari for 3 Ben Simmons, plus a LeBron and Steph Curry.

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

Brett! That's real wisdom. You're seeing the light!

Brett McCabe 3 years, 9 months ago

You're on the wrong site. Just type EMAW in your web browser and it'll take you right to your kind.

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

You poor thing. You seem to have too little self esteem to handle a compliment. Please don't post silly responses like that. You're showing signs of progress and that diminishes your limited credibility.

Is there a game you really do understand? Are you related to the McCabe that coaches baseball? Maybe that's a better forum for you?

Brett McCabe 3 years, 9 months ago

Go ahead, like your comment, I dare you! Do it!

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

Two plus hours to think about it and that's your best? No, you're no Dennis Miller.

James Smith 3 years, 9 months ago

Psycho Jay what a Pathetic Life that you lead. Get a job and move out of your mom's house.

Joe Ross 3 years, 9 months ago

Flushing of scholarships? If your argument is that schollies are "wasted" on OADs, then Id answer with a question: how many veterans on this team are not producing in a manner worthy of a scholarship at Kansas? Svi is non-productive. He isn't OAD. In fact, he'd have to come back for year three and there's no guarantee you'll get a major return on the scholarship invested. Traylor gives no offense. He's been at Kansas five years. Lucas is hit and miss at best. Senior next year. Mickelson is a senior this year and he's riding the bench. You want to talk wasted scholarships?

You say the OADs are the problem, but Kansas has never had more than 2 OADs on the roster at any given time, and most often its been only 1. There's always been a core of veterans. Your attempt to scapegoat the OADs and excuse the multiyear players fails. Multiyear players lost the game last night.

And if you wouldnt trade Jamari for Lebron and Steph Curry, well then enough said. '

Brett McCabe 3 years, 9 months ago

Plus Michael, by the way.

The problem with your argument is that, like Jay, you miss the idea of nuance and the ripple effect.

Had those scholarships - or grants in aid as OAD's call them - not gone to the list of OAD failures at KU, perhaps they could have used some on, I dunno, Buddy Hield or Monte Morris or Georges Niang. Are those veterans also terrible?

Veteran players aren't the problem. It's our veteran players who are the problem - though I wouldn't necessarily call Svi or Devonte true veterans. And part of the problem is that OAD's have clogged up the system and twisted valuable recruiting opportunities.

Name the KU OAD that's led us to anything (other than Wilt) that veterans haven't surpassed?

And Archie's argument that injury and bench time are the problem? My goodness, did you read that before you posted it? That would be the definition of the problem at KU with OAD's. They are hurt, or ineligible or they just aren't very impactful. They've been a 100% washout in terms of achieving anything that hasn't already been achieved and surpassed at KU. But hey, let's do more of that thing that never works! It's got to work sometime!

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

Your fixation with me is flattering. I'm not available.

You should lease out the crystal ball you used to predict that Hield, Morris and Niang would become stars. Oh? You didn't predict it when they were recruited but merely have the same 20/20 hindsight everyone else has? So you have that going for you, which is nice.

James Smith 3 years, 9 months ago

Well Psycho Jay your crystal ball has snow in it. You know so little that you could not see this slide coming. Others could but you are happy right now with this team so enjoy the season. We better not play a team that starts with a "B" in the first or second round.

Joe Ross 3 years, 9 months ago

Perhaps some of those scholarships would have gone to another Lucas. Or Traylor. Or whomever. You cant build your case against OADs without showing the the multiyear players who are NOT ON Kansas' team because of the OADs would get us over the hump. Thats hard to do when we are laden with upperclassmen we recruited and landed who arent getting the job done.

Gerry Butler 3 years, 9 months ago

So Joe you want your one and done cool, How about this, lets ask Duke how that's working out for them. All those 5 stars freshman they got there,Ingram the one and done Kennard the 5 star the big 5 star 6ft 10 Fresh that not even hardly touching the floor, see how that's working out for them ummm, I can tell you not so great. They are right on the edge of falling out of the top 25, they have lost like 3-4 4-4 in the league and sure not on top.And that's with the winningest Coach in the history of the game at over 1000 victories Coach K. how is those boy's working out? You know what they are missing? their missing their upper classsman the 3 yr player Jefferson that's who. Again the one and done looks great Ingram flashy numbers, but are they winning? Kennard flashy numbers but are they winning? The other stud sitting his butt ON THE BENCH just like Diallo, Bragg, are they winning, and that's with a hall of fame Coach on the bench their with them. I have no problem with one and done but to say we want one and dones over others ummmm maybe not. Did we have a one and done when we won the National title in 1988? maybe but the bottom line is he didn't go Did we have a one and done in 2008? NOPE you can be and are just fine with 3-4 year players thanks

Joe Ross 3 years, 9 months ago

In 2008 our competition for the title was a team who had only 1 OAD. The last champion had 2 of them. Kentucky, the prototypical team with OADs has been more competitive for national titles than we have, and its not a coincidence that they recruit more one and dones. How do you explain that?

Here's the answer. Kansas shouldnt be like Kentucky, because you experience a drop off every 3rd year or so. But Id take 2 OADs most years and 3 on a few others. This always leaves your core as multiyear players, and you will never have more than 3 on your team.

A better scenario for Kansas would be if the age limit rule were changed to 2 years. I think that fits Self's style a little better, who is slower at coaching up OADS than Cal and Coach K (which is the problem we are witnessing with Diallo currently, to some extent). But that is not the world we live in right now.

Marius Rowlanski 3 years, 9 months ago

Didn't Duke just win the NCAA championship with a team sporting freshmen Jahlil Okafor, Justise Winslow and Tyus Jones? With OAD's there's always a little bit of a gamble. I think if Embiid hasn't been injured, we would have certainly been a final four contender. OAD Davis led Kentucky to a national championship in 2012.

This year, both Kentucky and Duke are struggling despite having top ranked recruiting classes. Sometimes you hit your point and sometimes you crap out.

Personally, I believe Self has always done better when developing players over a period of several years plus having solid recruiting classes. To me, this year's team seemed to have the right mix of experience and talent but is currently adrift in deep water. I thought 2012 was HCBS's best coaching job and if things continue in their current direction, this team could be his worst.

Joe Baker 3 years, 9 months ago

Ask Calipari how his "OADs" are doing....haha He actually has some vets in there too. He has a few key players that are projected to be OAD. It's not this or that, but how the guys play as a team. OADs or vets, these guys are just not producing. We had Wiggins and he dropped 40+ on WVU and they still beat us.

It's called execution. If a vet or OAD executes you're going to win ball games. I'm not anti-OAD, but I do agree. They are not the answer. Yes, they are sexy and look good, but not the answer. I'll go a step further....Bill Self can't coach OAD talent PERIOD. He is a teaching coach, a bit like Coach K used to be in the day. Self is great with 2-4 year guys. But Coach K has fallen into the OAD temptation and look at them now. They executed with Jones and Okafor. Frankly, they weren't that good either, but good enough to win the NC. Duke also had some vets too. They had good chemistry. We don't have a Jones or Okafor caliber player. Diallo is no Jahlil Okafor either. Mason or Graham is not Jones or they'd be in the league right now. You need both types executing.

Joe Ross 3 years, 9 months ago

Comparing against Cal is a bad option. He's made it to five of the last eight final fours. Thats over half.

Nah. On second thought, youre right. We dont want that kind of success at storied Kansas.

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

Are you willing to chip in to cover payroll player payroll like BBN? I don't personally want the kind of success that Cal has where half the banners have come down..

Joe Ross 3 years, 9 months ago

Rupp Arena hangs banners for Final Fours, and not just Championships or Runners Up. Cal has had four at Kentucky. None of which has been taken down secondary to vacation. In the cases of Derrick Rose at Memphis, where he was retroactively declared ineligible, and of Marcus Camby at UMass, where he took improper benefits, there hasnt been a shred of evidence that Cal contributed to the vacated seasons. Now we can be cynics against the evidence, and we would certainly agree, at least, that Cal is sleazy, but insofar as he is ostensibly innocent regarding the lost banners, there is no reason to press the point about players receiving improper benefits outside of what has been shown. Rose's issue, as above, was academics. Not money.

So the answer is an unqualified "no". I would not advocate or be complicit in giving improper benefits, and neither do I begrudge the way Cal has achieved his success, save that I am zealous for it at Kansas.

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

I'd quit following college basketball if Cal was at KU.

James Smith 3 years, 9 months ago

OMG bring on Cal and we can get rid of Psycho Jay. Please don't give us ALL false hope like that. You would just come back under one of your other names.

Joe Ross 3 years, 9 months ago

Not trying to recruit Cal as coach here. Just hoping that Bill Self can achieve success on that level.

Jaston Archie 3 years, 9 months ago

"I wouldn't trade Jamari for 3 Ben Simmons, plus a Lebron...." You're an idiot.

"We aren't losing to OAD teams." Do you remember the game against UK last year?

"Not a single of our OAD's has solved our biggest problem" The only OAD player that has actually played a lot from start to finish was Wiggins and then Embiid before getting hurt. How can OAD players impact a game on the bench? And plus, OAD's don't have the authority to fire Bill Self so they technically can't solve the biggest problem

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

Didn't some recently dismiss the notion that there were people crazy enough to actually want Coach Self fired? Here's just such a person. They do exist, as absurd as it seems.

Jaston Archie 3 years, 9 months ago

And you should be dimissed as a fan, bc you don't even care if the team loses. Whatever happens you always say how great Self is and make every excuse imaginable as to whatever you talk about. If your imaginary girlfriend cheated on you I bet you would say how great she is and how great he is and probably form a polygamous relationship.

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

Just in case anyone wondered if you were rational, that's been answered.

Jaston Archie 3 years, 9 months ago

I respond rationally to rational people. You have long established yourself as the most irrational, incendiary person on this site, so reap what you sow

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

Thanks for giving the merit of your comments proper perspective.

Brett McCabe 3 years, 9 months ago

Your rational response was to open up by calling me an idiot?

Perhaps you and Joe didn't read the story about Jamari's personal experiences. Since this is not a KSU web-site, I assumed KU fans would understand the implied meaning of the comment. But, then, I'm an idiot.

Jaston Archie 3 years, 9 months ago

Brett, I apologize for calling you an idiot for whatever it's worth (if I was you it wouldn't be worth much to me), but I honestly did not think you had Traylor's amazing off the court story in mind when you were debating with Joe about the value of on the court experience over OAD talent. Now that I know why you said that, even though I still disagree with you because winning is most important to me, I do respect your position. Jamari Traylor is definitely an unbelievable success story

Brett McCabe 3 years, 9 months ago

It's a good tip for me.

Remember when Dennis Miller was put on Monday Night Football and everyone said, other that it was a really bad idea, that Miller constantly made references that were too vague? Well, I'm just like Dennis Miller, except I'm not funny, was never on SNL or MNF, couldn't afford to rent a room in his house and I'm a card-carrying liberal. Other than those things, though, I'm just like him!

Appreciate the response, and I appreciate the opinions.

Jaston Archie 3 years, 9 months ago

Lol, you are quite funny! But you lost me at "card-carrying liberal," but to each his own

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

A liberal. That explains why you make no sense.

Brett McCabe 3 years, 9 months ago

No. No one dismissed that notion. They recognized it for what it was, a minuscule minority of posters. But these nuances are only for those who can read.

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

"an minuscule minority.."

Brett, when you have nothing relevant to contribute and instead insult someone's language skills, it's best not to butcher the language.

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

It's good to see that you can accept constructive input well enough to edit a grammar mistake.

Didn't you recently announce your new policy of not defending the actual content of your comments when they are revealed as flawed? That might have been your best idea yet. Shame you could't have followed through with it.

Brett McCabe 3 years, 9 months ago

"Shame you could't have followed through with it." Not a sentence. And there is an "n" in couldn't. Call your idol, the band director at KSU, he'll help you at least learn how to draw.

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

Brett. You're making a fool of yourself again. You swore you wouldn't put me in the position of helping you do this. It's neither challenging nor gratifying.

Terrence Cernech 3 years, 9 months ago

"OAD's don't have the authority to fire Bill Self so they technically can't solve the biggest problem"

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.........................ha.

Robert Brock 3 years, 9 months ago

KU's big problem is guard play. Frank Mason and Devonte Graham are just not capable of playing at the high level that Bill Self and KU hopes for. Self's guard recruiting has slipped and it shows.

Craig Alexander 3 years, 9 months ago

I have to completely disagree with you. Both Mason and Graham can play at a high level. They have done it in many games before. They haven't over the past couple of weeks but they are capable. To take the past couple of weeks and say they aren't capable is a stretch in my mind. Right now they are trying to push so hard to keep winning that they panic and make dumb mistakes. They need to slow down and make better decisions.

Terrence Cernech 3 years, 9 months ago

I agree with both of you guys. Mason and Graham can play at a high level, but not as offensive choices: one and two. They are complimentary players and can feed off of defensive breakdowns by the opponent during the course of running the offense. Self's offense has always been most effective when the ball gets to the second and third side. That rarely happens this year with Mason and Graham, but particularly with Mason. I can't remember the last National Champion whose first offensive weapon was a 5' 10" point guard who is not a particularly good shooter. On offense that is where I would start. I would not have Mason and Graham on the court at the same time. That being said there are times defensively that I would.play them both.

Adam Ewald 3 years, 9 months ago

I disagree with you Craig and agree with Robert. When your assist to turnover ratio is less than 1 over the previous 5 games, it explains that guard play is the issue. As tough as the league is this year, you need guards that can create plays and not turn the ball over, i don't care how hard you push it.

Gerry Butler 3 years, 9 months ago

Excuse me, Joe tell me again ummmm exactly what is the stud One and Done Ben Simmons teams record again? ( Chirp Chirp) come on Joe speak up a little couldn't hear ya? And where exactly do they stand in a less tougher league in the standings, 4th? 5th? and what do you think exactly how good of a chance the way they are playing do you feel they will make the NCAA tourney again? Other then MR Simmons putting up gaudy numbers for himself- - - tell me again Exactly how much has he improved thatteam in his own league again? Are they contending for the league title? tell me Joe, you think they have as much chance no wait a bettte chance then us of winning a National title? Does he really care about the team? the only thing a player of that caliber, is about is just getting through their mandatory 1 year where they have NO CHOICE but to come to College for 1 year before going pro, he has done very little to improve that team as a whole, now he has showed off HIS SKILLS for the pro's all you gotta do is look at HIS stats, but as far as the team goes ummmm not so much LSU decided to take him and not recruit a 3 4 year player possibly, and tell me again exactly WHERE AGAIN that has got them? go ahead- - -I'll wait, exactly- - - -NO WHERE

Joe Ross 3 years, 9 months ago

I'd hang your hat on another point, with all respect. Youre dismissing context. LSU only has Ben Simmons. At Kansas, we have better coaching and we have multiyear players who are better suited to a supporting role than being featured. LSU doesnt have that. Listen...there is no one here who thinks Ben Simmons at LSU would be equal to the prospect of Ben Simmons at Kansas. Not even you.

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

Jaston, only a complete kook believes that Johnny Jones is a better coach than Bill Self. It's increasingly evident that you're comfortable with this label.

Marius Rowlanski 3 years, 9 months ago

I think an argument could be made that Self hasn't had the success others have had with OAD's but in this case, Ben Simmons at Kansas would certainly be better than Simmons at LSU.

Benz Junque 3 years, 9 months ago

Just a reminder that OU is #1 in the country and is the drivers seat for the Big 12 title with a roster full of experienced three star recruits.

Justin Kruse 3 years, 9 months ago

16 turnovers! We shoot 50% for the game. Say we score on 40% of those lost possessions and it's a different game.

What drives me crazy is how we play off shooters on the backside. We've been giving up so many open looks when the ball gets reversed quickly. Stay on your man!

Great game by Perry. Love how he's getting more aggressive.

Feel bad for Hunter. Last night may have not been the best match-up to use him but give him a chance sometime.

Barry Weiss 3 years, 9 months ago

We need Diallo and Bragg in 20 minutes each. Might be tough in the short run, but by the NCAA tourney, it will only help. Svi or Greene needs to start. I think Mason, Seldon and Graham are too comfortable and not feeling any heat from the bench.

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

I'm often accused by the CLs of agreeing with everything Coach Self does. Here's what I'd like to see.

Mason 30 mins

Graham 20-30 Mins split between backing up Mason and Selden depending on matchups and foul trouble

Selden 30 Mins.

Greene and Svi 20 mins each splitting the 3. NO. Ellis is NOT a 3.

Ellis 30 Mins.

Lucas 20 mins vs teams with a true center , otherwise 5.

Bragg and Diallo 10 each until they earn more.

Traylor The rest. Late game situations where teams are loading the perimeter.

Barry Weiss 3 years, 9 months ago

I agree that we need to shorten Graham's minutes and probably not even start him. I'd go with a starting 5 of: Mason, Seldon, Svi, Diallo and Perry. Bring Graham in quickly, same with Lucas or Mickelson if Diallo gets in foul trouble. Bragg should be coming in quick if Seldon is off or when Perry needs a breather.

Terrence Cernech 3 years, 9 months ago

I'm sorry and don't like to single out a player for negative comment, but Greene is totally one-dimensional. He is a great shooter when he is wide, wide open. Put a defender near him and he becomes average. The rest of his game is not Div. One. Sorry.

Barry Weiss 3 years, 9 months ago

agreed, he is pretty one-dimensional. I was just responding to Jay on players who could come off the bench for 3-4-5 minutes to give Seldon a breather. It seems our two biggest problems are Mason, Seldon and Graham getting worn down with this short rotation and secondly our dysfunctional 5 position. Start Diallo, let him develop THIS YEAR.

Benz Junque 3 years, 9 months ago

We need our best players to take, and make, shots and to stop turning over the ball.

David McNickle 3 years, 9 months ago

Should've had 50, easily, in the first half. 16 turnovers against a team that plays "ole'" defense. There's nothing wrong with losing last night. ISU is a tough matchup in Ames. Very frustrating to lose kicking the ball around with a 3 guard offense.

Kent Richardson 3 years, 9 months ago

With the simple skill of being able to make layups I had us at 57 for the half.

Marius Rowlanski 3 years, 9 months ago

At least Iowa State fans no longer feel the need to storm the court every time they beat Kansas. Not sure that qualifies as success though.

Steve Corder 3 years, 9 months ago

TCU coach was correct. KU is a good team. Not great, just good.

Take away Allen Field House and they have little with which to scare opponents.

Seems like KU reveals super stars where ever they go.

No one in the conference is afraid of the Jayhawks. Rightly so.

11 straight is a great record.

Self is a hall of fame coach.

Barry Weiss 3 years, 9 months ago

it was telling, the announcers said the Iowa State fans behind them were telling each other "don't storm the court". One could take that as it's no big deal to beat KU anymore, certainly not at Ames.

Bee Bee 3 years, 9 months ago

5th place team. P S GET a damn hand in the face of the three point shooters!!!!!!!!!!!

Arthur Ankeney 3 years, 9 months ago

I can watch a team lose and accept it. As long as I feel like they want me to watch, like they care about going out and playing hard. This team does not have that. Jay Bilas said it during the game, and Self highlighted it afterward, this team lacks poise. And that's a big thing. Everybody in the Big XII wants that Big XII win streak to fall and KU will get every team's best shot. Especially when KU is playing in front of raucous crowds. The only thing that can save them is poise and that is something that has been completely lacking from this team (aside from the OU game, but that was at home). Michigan State...they played so much better than Michigan State for 30 minutes. But the second MIST hit a couple shots and got within a bucket, it was over. KU looked awful the rest of the game. WVU and OKST get up on KU early, they looked horrendous the rest of the game. As soon as ISU pulled within 2 I said this is over. Then I watched Mason give the ball over 3 times. I watched Wayne jack up a closely-guarded 3. I watched Nader spot up wide open from 3 multiple possessions including once when Wayne TROTTED over to him. They have no poise and they will need that if they expect to win a single big XII road game from here on out. I think a big reason for this team's lack of poise, is their lack of chemistry and trust. When things are going well, the ball does not stick and it leads to open shots for the shooters or open driving lanes. At times in the first half they reminded me of the Spurs dismantling of the Heat in the NBA finals 2 years ago. But the second they're tested, they all become individual isolation players. Mason pushes, Graham pushes, Selden pushes, and Ellis pushes. The ball doesn't move and it leads to a defense that can collapse and force turnovers.

Tevin Brown 3 years, 9 months ago

One and dones isnt the problem our gaurd play is the problem our 5 position is the problem Frank thinks his lebron Graham is nice but sucks at defense Wayne man wayne i love wayne but brooo what are u doing in the second half o yeah nothing Perry is our main mannn Lucas hahahahahahahahahahahaha Now with all that said idk if mason graham and lucas would start for any top 10 team i like mason i just think his overrated Start mason wayne greene perry carlton and if not carlton diallo U want different results u gotta change playing 7 men is not workinggg!

Bryce Landon 3 years, 9 months ago

What's getting lost in all this is the officiating. As is often the case, the refs held KU to a different set of rules than ISU. How many times did Cry-Clown players get away with travelling? How much contact did they get away with that we couldn't have got away with? Someone in the Big 12 office needs to hold these refs accountable for the double standards they hold teams to.

And someone in the KU athletic department - namely, Dr. Zenger, needs to hold Self and his staff accountable for what is turning into another mediocre and underachieving season. Like the Texas Longhorns in the final seven years of the Rick Barnes regime, KU basketball has become stale and ordinary. It's time to bring in a new coach who can spark the program and light a fire under the @$$es of our underachieving and unmotivated players. And I'm not talking about someone in the KU "family" who'll keep doing the same old things; I'm talking about an outsider who can change the culture of complacency surrounding this program - Tony Bennett, Gregg Marshall, or Fran McCaffery. We won't sniff another Final Four appearance so long as Bill Self is in charge of this team.

FIRE BILL SELF!

Jay Scott 3 years, 9 months ago

Three. For those who doubted such loons really existed. Three on this thread.

James Smith 3 years, 9 months ago

Psycho Jay continues to like Mediocrity!

Michael Lorraine 3 years, 9 months ago

Zenger will NEVER fire him Bryce. It would be less embarrassing if he were to drop his drawers in Times Square.

Marius Rowlanski 3 years, 9 months ago

Nobody would notice if someone dropped their drawers in the middle of Times Square. He can get behind the naked cowboy or the girls wearing only body paint

Bryce Landon 3 years, 9 months ago

Then fire Zenger and get an AD with the onions to whack Self.

Tevin Brown 3 years, 9 months ago

Ok firing bill self is crazy talk Unless u can go get danny or idk a nba coach like mark Jackson or something If u want to fire bill self for another college Coach that names is not danny Coach cal or tom izzo den idk why the hell u fired bill for? He doesnt do a bad job honestly his a great coach he took t rob and tyshawn to the championship game That was our rebuilding year! Coach k couldn't do that or coach cal maybe tom So bill is a good coach!

Kent Richardson 3 years, 9 months ago

I want to see if we can play two good halves. It surely can happen can't it?

What is the thing with our OAD's? Does anyone see why the orgasmic frenzy over Diallo.He can run and jump and is quick for a 6'9" dude. He can hit 30-40% of 8 to 10 foot jumpers? Bragg is okay, I guess. Just like a thousand other guys. They haven't shown enough for the coach to put them in over an undersized Traylor and Lucas? What are we to make of that?

We are just not that good. Period. Other teams have better guards and 5's. So what. It's the truth and we will move on and get new players who will be evaluated and ranked by a group of people who are way off a lot more than I realized.

Self is a very good coach I would think. How would any of a few dozen be doing in his place? We don't know.

The best part of this program is the Allen crowd it seems. Amazing home court advantage. But how much better than others? Pretty fragile team if they can't handle a foreign environment.

Too late to change this season unless Self goes all in with something else, but what???

Barry Weiss 3 years, 9 months ago

I would say that neither Bragg or Diallo has really gotten the solid consistent playing time a freshman needs to make the decision to keep them on the bench. I understand the go with Vets, who we know what we will get. But now that we see that the vets cannot win this for us and we need something more, I think it is the perfect time to ramp up the minutes for Svi, Bragg and Diallo.

Marius Rowlanski 3 years, 9 months ago

I do wonder how Mark Turgeon would do as Self's replacement when Self decides to move on or retire. HCBS is just to good of a coach to fire.

Jared Reeves 3 years, 9 months ago

Selden disappears too often; and Mason still likes to drive into the paint, get double teamed, and force up a shot (rather than pitch it to the open man). The first half was brilliant as far as ball movement. It seems when one plays poorly, it affects the other one.

At least Perry showed up. I don't understand why we don't sub Lucas for an offensive big man, when we can't stop the other team from scoring, and realize it will be a shootout. Lucas was solid, but having him in the second half didn't help us much on the defensive end (and clearly had little impact on the offensive end).

Players need to play better (consistently) and coaches need to coach better.

Janet Olin 3 years, 9 months ago

I am not a Doomsday person, and am Not a Fan of KSHB's sports announcer Frank Bohl (MU allegiance). However, Frank pointed out (gleefully) on air in the 6pm broadcast that the last time KU lost 3 consecutive road games by double digits was 60 years ago.(!) I can't swear that's true, but he must have checked that stat to be so chirpy in reporting it in the prime-time broadcast. Yikes. I know the Hawks have a long way to go, but that set me back a few steps. Got to double-down on D, especially perimeter D and stop the stupid turnovers. I am bracing myself to lose the consecutive win string at AFH, and at least for now, a Big12 crown seems remote. Still cheering and anything can happen, but gee...

Ryan Doll 3 years, 9 months ago

Bill Self and guards? Its becoming a sad history. You could get away with Sherron Collins forcing the issue he was that good of a scorer. Tyshawn Taylor decided to figure things out for the last 7 or so games of his career...kudos to him. Then you run into the situation where Elijah Johnson was forced to play point. Come hell or high water Self made him play the point. Dont mind that he was highly effective as a slashing 2 guard he was our point. Turnovers became the norm. Lack of floor general caliber decision making and leadership have plagued us since. Frank has a chance to change that if he starts to put value into each possession. Idk if self has a drill where guys jump into the air before making any clear cut decisions or what the deal is but it has been a staple of Kansas basketball the past several yrs. Self has got to adapt in some manner if he wants to compete. You can't hamstring obvious talents and far more physically gifted players. Ie Diallo Bragg Svi with fundamentalist fantasies. Especially when your guards aren't held to that standard. It seems like instead of adapting at all hcbs is waiting for the next incarnation of Christian Moody. Maybe we should relocate to the missouri valley

David Howell 3 years, 9 months ago

Alright, this is CHICKEN LITTLE and the sky really is FALLING !

We have won 11 conference championships in a row. "11" ......... The rest of the league hates us and has been on our heels for years. We've shared it a few years, but this year a new sheriff will be in town. All in all in the last twelve years we've in the final four twice and lost in the first two rounds five times ! FIVE ....

The problem is that this years team seems capable, but even thought they know their shortcomings they have NO idea how to fix them. Maybe it isn't a quick fix for problems like no defense, learning that 3 pt shots equal long rebounds, and making free throws.

Maybe they should rewatch the first half of the ISU game about ten times. And then figure out that you have to play 40 minutes like that to win a championship and not just a half.

Benz Junque 3 years, 9 months ago

"Play to the game plan for all 40 minutes, not just 25 minutes" seems like a pretty easy thing to figure out but it obviously isn't.

Ryan Doll 3 years, 9 months ago

Losing to Kstate is becoming a yearly ritual as well

Yolanda Gay 3 years, 9 months ago

So much for having a veteran team being a bonus. The veterans play like freshmen.

Adam Ewald 3 years, 9 months ago

The problem is our guards. Making too many turnovers and not enough assists. Look at Mason's stats over the past 5 games. 12 assists to 17 turnovers or something like that. When it comes to crunch time, you need players who you can count on not to turn it over and make plays, and right now we do not have that. Big 12 is tough and solid guard play will lead us to a 12th title, hopefully they can turn it around.

Travis Osier 3 years, 9 months ago

I can't remember when Self said this, but at one point he wished that Mason and Graham would be more aggressive and he would be OK with more turnovers. It seems like ever since he said that our guard play has gone downhill. It kind of makes me think that statement was this years 'fools gold'. I would give anything for this team to go back to the type of play they had before the Big 12 started. I loved watching that KU team. Ball movement, depth, and a fire to win. We all know this team has the talent, it might be top echelon, but we've seen it, and not that long ago. Obviously when Self had the meeting with his 4 "leaders" there was a major trust factor on the floor. I just hope we can get things back in order in time. I still believe we have a good chance in March. All hope is not lost, even without a B12 title. It's not the end of the world if we lose it. Heck, it might be good for these guys. Let's see if they get a chip on their shoulder when they aren't a top 2 seed. I would love to see a 4-5 seeded team that is out to prove people wrong. We're so use to seeing 1-2 seed, maybe it's a good thing?

Michael Lorraine 3 years, 9 months ago

I'm on the fence regarding OAD's vs. veterans but I don't think it's fair to rule out the latter over one season that has not been completed. With that logic one could rule out quite a few seasons when we did have starting OAD's. I'll say this in defense of a veteran lineup, I'd rather have the senior year of Perry Ellis than the freshman year of Andrew Wiggins. Maybe that will change after the tournament.

Marius Rowlanski 3 years, 9 months ago

I would take Andrew Wiggins over Ellis anyday and everyday.

Doug Clark 3 years, 9 months ago

I wish the childish name calling and trading insults on continuous posts by a select few people would stop, its ridiculous and its not what I come here to read, grow up. I am a huge ku fan and have been for at least 40 years and I am totally frustrated and I just want to know if its just me or if other fans feel the same and obviously they do. These past 2 1/2 years have been the most frustrating I have ever felt but that doesn't mean I think Self should be fired, but I do think he needs to be more willing to change when things aren't going well. It's not the 3 road losses, its the last 6 games, luckily one was at Tech and the other 2 at home or else we could easily be 0-6 in those games. I think he needs to try something different, in years past he has at least tried a zone or triangle &2 when our players kept getting beat man to man but this year he won't try anything different. It seems as if he is more stubborn than ever and really acts as if he is untouchable and doesn't care to try anything different, is he taking his job for granted? Is he too comfortable and has lost some of his edge? He seems more calm or disconnected with bad decisions and play, unless it is Bragg,Diallo, or Svi because one mistake and they get yanked. I am going absolutely berserk watching our guards continually getting beat and embarrassed by opposing guards, watching Selden disappear again, watching Lucas miss layups, watching Traylor foul constantly or turn it over, and watching Perry try and shoulder the whole load while our other experienced guts wilt under pressure. If our experience is not going to help us then why the hell won't he play Bragg, Diallo, and Svi? If I were them I would seriously think about transferring. If they do and with our poor recruiting class so far we are screwed for next year and probably more after that. Obviously OU is the best team in the league and ironically they are doing it with basically the same players as they had last year just like Ku, the difference is their team has improved significantly while ours seems to have stayed in the same rut if not gone backwards. I would be curious to see what others think the reason might be, inferior coaching? Do we just have less talented players who aren't improving because they have already reached their potential? Is it leadership or desire? Are they so hungry to knock us off while we have gotten complacent? Let me know what you think, sorry I rambled on so long.

Lin Rahardja 3 years, 9 months ago

It seemed that after 5 minutes of the second half, our offense was too predictable and stagnant, ISU seemed to know that KU would try HARD to pass inside to Perry, and they double and triple team Perry. They know when Mason likes to penetrate and crowded him, causing turn overs. ISU is very good team in transition. Hope we improve our offensive scheme, KU looks vulnerable, the offensive set plays are well recognized by our foes in Big 12.

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